The Spiritual Roots of Anxiety & Depression with Dr. Natalie Atwell

In this episode of The Cross Files Podcast, hosts Jeri and Michael sit down with Dr. Natalie Atwell, a seasoned mental health expert and the founder of Concord Counseling Associates. Dr. Atwell shares her unique insights on the spiritual roots behind common mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and even societal breakdowns. With over 20 years of experience and a role as an adjunct professor at Liberty University, Dr. Atwell brings a biblical perspective to understanding these struggles. Together, they explore how spiritual health impacts our mental well-being and uncover faith-based insights for finding true healing. Dr. Atwell, a third runner-up in a prestigious beauty and talent pageant, also opens up about how her personal journey influences her professional work in the field of counseling.

To contact Dr. Natalie Atwell:
https://mentalwarriorconsulting.com/
https://concord-nacounseling.com/contact

To ask for prayer, to become a potential guest on the show, a topic idea, questions or comments, or to donate, please go to: https://crossfiles.org/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, there's some level of that within everyone. People
are so fearful. I mean that is huge tactic of
the enemy is just to get people so fearful that
they can't do anything. And the United States, I call
it the United States of Anxiety. It's the most anxious
nation in the world. Yet we're the most blessed in
terms of financial wealth and influence in the world and

(00:24):
all those things. But if you look at the statistics
of anxiety in the world, it is us. We are
at the top. And that's not a category we want
to be at the top of.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
This is a Cross Files podcast brilliantly blending enlightenment and engagement.
This thought provoking show explores ancient and modern topics through
a typical lens, offering listeners a fresh perspective on historical mysteries,
spiritual encounters, and current events with a focus on the supernatural.
Your hosts, Michael and Jerry bring a unique, insightful view,

(01:00):
encouraging listeners to embrace the spiritual significance behind the veil.
Join them on a fascinating journey to broaden your horizons
and uncover the supernatural aspects of life.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Eight one.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Welcome to the Cross Files podcast, otherwise known as the
Stranger Clock Podcast. I'm your host Jerry and I'm Michael
and we have our special guest today or this afternoon
or tonight, whenever you're listening to it. Who is doctor
Natalie at Well. And we are so blessed and honored
to have her on board. Welcome, doctor Natalie.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Thank you. It's such an honor to be here.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
We're honored and blessed to have you on board. Okay,
to introduce you. Doctor Natalie at Well brings over twenty
years of experience in the field of mental health. From
her role as a practice owner and clitical director to
her educational endeavors in college teaching, Doctor Atwell has been
able to encourage individuals, groups, and organizations by sharing hope
and healing from God's word. Currently, she leads a private

(02:10):
counseling practice in the Charlotte, North Carolina metro area and
enjoys teaching as an adjunct faculty member at Liberty University
in the Clinical, Mental health and school Counseling programs. As
someone who is committed to serving her community, she is
on her local county Human Services Advisory Board and Human
Trafficking Task Force. In addition to being a board member

(02:30):
for an anti sex trafficking agency present Age Ministries. Thanks
so much, doctor at Well for your time today.

Speaker 5 (02:37):
So Michael, go ahead, Yes, thank you, Doctor Atwall. I
was just intrigued to see how you've brought together these
spears of blurry creatures, Michael Heizer, supernatural worldview, spiritual warfare,
and kind of bringing into focused mental awareness, mental health
awareness and healing in an age that most of us

(03:00):
who are kind of exposed to those fields think, I
you know, can't trust the pharmaceutical industry or the psychologists
or you know, all the marriage counselors or divorces and
all this kind of thing. So you bring a lot
of really interesting fields together, and I'm just curious about
how that kind of came together.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, you know, I I'm kind of a weird person
by nature. I mean that's how I define myself. But
I know God loves me how I am and he
created me this way, and so it's a beautiful thing.
But I was never weird in the spaces of I'm
going to watch stranger things or ancient aliens. You know,
my kids were into stranger things, and so I have
to learn about that but I have always been very

(03:42):
interested in, you know, just my faith in God, and
I've been an inquisitive person by nature, and I'm so
thankful for that, and it's just made me go deeper
into the things of God. And with being a mental
health professional, a huge part of what I do is
just sit with people people and learn and seek to
understand them, meet them where they are, and so that's

(04:04):
created this desire to be a researcher in me in
some ways. But I have noticed, especially since the pandemic,
just this huge rise in symptoms that weren't typical for
the mental health field, and so that gave me the
and plus dealing with spiritual warfare and increase in my

(04:24):
own life made me go dig deeper in research. And
so that actually led me to an Amazon find of
The Unseen Realm, written by doctor Michael Haser, and that
just exploded my paradigm on so many things. And for
someone who's read the Bible multiple times a year for

(04:45):
probably at least the past ten years, I've never read
the Bible the same once I had his material, and
it's just so beautiful and rich to me. But marry
that with I hired this counselor who told about blurry
creatures and she was a Christian. I was like, that
sounds weird and that does not sound like anything. I'm interested,

(05:05):
and I could care less off Bigfoot is real or not. Okay,
the world a big problem here, But because I want
to get to know my staff too, and she's just
such a great person and has such a big heart,
I was interested, and so I went on there and
one of the first episodes I noticed had Michael Hazer
on it. So I was like, Okay, Lord, I hear you,

(05:25):
what is this about? And so that just became this
huge journey over the past two years of digging deeper
into some of the things, and I've just really come
to the conclusion that we really need to figure out
what's going on in the world today because I do
believe so many things are from a spiritual place, and

(05:48):
a lot of mental health professionals don't want to go
there and they don't really know how to go there.
And so I just really feel like the Lord's given
me so much to help people make it more of
a norm thing to uh not be afraid to ask
some of the weird questions.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
Right. It's it's like the gonz and basely used to
call Michael Heiser doctor Michael Hauser Gandolf. And so you
bring this material from the PhD realm, the doctorate realm,
into you know, the Internet, the world of podcasters, and
so you could be like the doctor on the Starship
Enterprise that you know, we could bring people to counsel

(06:28):
after we fight the Romulans or something like. It's really
great sound. Thank you, hey.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Man, Thank you so much, doctor Natalie for brilliant.

Speaker 5 (06:38):
It's silly, but it's truly great. It's so exciting. So
so you've also done mission work, and you've written a book,
and you've been doing podcasts. It's just so exciting to
have you on this, on this kind of battlefront. What
is your vision as far as where are you seeing
things going from the people you're counseling and and obviously

(07:01):
the craziness in the news and the world and theology.
I mean, where is this all headed? When you see
all these stars, how do you kind of connect the
dots and they're like, okay, where are we going here?

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah? Wow, that's a tough question there, Michael. You know
it's a good one though. You know, I learned years
ago that if I just say yes to God today
in a small thing, he leads me to another thing,
and it's just turned into this beautiful journey of life
with Him. And so I don't often know where it

(07:36):
all is going to end up, but I've found that
if I'm just faithful in the simple yes today, it
will lead me to a greater thing. But I say
all that to also say that, you know, God has
given me these desires to go to the nations, and
I love to travel and all these things, but he
also never gave my husband a call to go live

(07:56):
on a foreign mission field. And so but the beautiful
reality of that is is that God has still given me.
He's used that in me to say, hey, you are
a mental health professional and you're doing things in the
States and in your area, but there are people who
don't have access to these services or this information, and
so He's given me opportunities to do that, to take

(08:17):
that information to help people in places like the Philippines
and Nicaragua and Kenya. And I'm just so thankful for that.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
We're thankful for your amazing industry.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Yeah, absolutely, We're very grateful and thankful for your amazing
ministry to people not only here in the US, but
in other countries, and you are doing something that's really
close to my heart, which is anti sex trafficking, Doctor Natalie.
In your experience, how often do you see cases where
a person's mental health struggles appear to have a spiritual

(08:53):
or demonic component? Can you share any examples or case
studies without maybe sharing their personal information?

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Of course, yeah, absolutely, And I love that question because
sometimes it's hard to separate the spiritual from the mental.
And I always teach people, like in my own practice,
like we go the normal mental health route first, but
if it comes to the point where things aren't working,
that they just cannot get through, have a breakthrough with

(09:21):
certain things things aren't helping, then we need to consider
there's something going else going on here. And so what
I did was I created an assessment with all of
the research, some of the things I've learned through all
the different podcasts and books and of course scripture foundationally,
and just go to ask some of the weird questions

(09:41):
that people aren't asking in typical mental health settings for
assessments and things. And then once we've identified something on
that assessment that suggests there could be a spiritual component
to it. Then we will go into a different mode
of treatment.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
That's good that I want to get therapy.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
I don't even I'm not even into that. I'm just like,
oh my gosh, where do I sign up? This is awesome,
Like I can talk about all this stuff I want
to talk about with this therapist, and you write people
that work for you as well. That I mean, you're
going to be pretty busy once people find out about you.
Like a big term like I hope you've got like
an army of therapist. Thing can also be like and
I was subducted and.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Then this, yeah, well thank you. And that's one reason
why I created an online course, just to be able
to teach other therapists about these things, and really anybody
who's interested, because I've even had law enforcement people who said, hey,
we weren't. We're a behavioral analyst for you know, the
SBI or something like that, but we're not asking these questions.

(10:43):
And these are questions that we should ask if we're
trying to prevent like a mass shooting, for example. So
I'm just so thankful again for the download that God's
given me to be able to go there and ask
these questions and I want to follow up too with
that question, is I will say also that in the practice,
in the practice that I have, we have seen a

(11:03):
huge increase in symptoms that would we're more fringe. I
would say, in the past, I might have, you know,
one or two clients a year, and then it kind
of seemed to be increasing. But since the pandemic, it
was like a massive increase in clients with dissociative symptoms,
which is deeply rooted in trauma. That would be the
d ID diagnosis or what people used to call multiple

(11:26):
personality disorder. And then also we've seen a huge increase
in this whole agenda of transhumanism and in the sexual perversion.
You know, sex trafficking is definitely part of sexual perversion,
but even the whole gender confusion and all that it is,

(11:47):
we have never seen the amount of stuff that we're
seeing now. In addition to people engaging in you know,
what the Old Testament would have called divination, there's a
lot that they're just blatantly using things from New Age
or witchcraft and not thinking anything of it, right, right,

(12:08):
So we've got to be willing to address.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
That, doctor Natalie. As a response to what you said,
about that there's a huge increase and uptick in these
not only the frequency and amount of counselor seeing you,
but the severity thereof Oh what do you think contributes
to that?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
You know, I don't remember where I heard this quote
years ago, but it just meant it like really hit me,
and it was that a lion is most dangerous when
he's on his deathbed. So I would think, I think
that the enemy Satan, the powers of darkness, you know,
all that you would describe those evil influences the enemies

(12:54):
of God. I think they know their time is short,
so they're fighting very hard to just destroy humans who
were made in God's image, which is all humans, and
so any attempt that they can to destroy human imagers,
they are doing that. And marry that with the fact

(13:16):
that there's this huge increase in spirituality, but it is
not the spirituality that we would have seen twenty years
ago even right.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yes, absolutely, and I'm sorry Michael. Other quick question, Oh no,
it's great.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
These are great answers and great questions.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
Question to you, a is I noticed that you had
mentioned to another podcaster I forget her name, but she's
with the Ruded Truth podcast where you mentioned that.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
I'm sorry Nae McGuinn is Jenny Meyer.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Jenny Meyer, Okay, yes, I remember that with the podcast
that you did with Jenny Meyer, with the rud of
Truth podcast that you mentioned that you had determined that
an open door to this woman's spiritual battle began when
she used a Ouiji board. Can you amplify that a little.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, this is such a precious client. She came in
years ago, and for years we worked on this deep
anxiety that she had related to health care. So every year,
I mean, she would get herself so worked up to
go to the doctor, you know, And there's lots of
different ways people can go about treating that. And trust me,

(14:30):
I tried all the things for years with her, and
there was some relief to a degree, and there was
some help, but there was never like we could not
get the root up to get it completely gone. And
once I learned all this stuff, I knew that I
had a safe relationship enough with her to try some things,
and so we just started digging deeper and I tried.
She was one of the first people that I tried

(14:52):
my assessment with and went over all these questions and
asked these things, and we determined that that started. That
health anxiety started after she spent time with a neighbor
in the sixth grade who had introduced her to the
WIEDI board.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Wow, fascinating, Praise God that.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
It was so powerful.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
That is powerful.

Speaker 5 (15:15):
Just that one statement just unlocks everything. It's like, hey,
let's find out. And so you're finding that having spiritual
understanding helps guide you when you're addressing the problems as
people are talking about all kinds of things. I see
in your on your website where it says what we
do and the different subjects about dealing with trauma, time management, anxiety, stress.

(15:38):
I mean, how many people do you meet that are
just they identify as I have anxiety or I am
this aholic or something like that. So you're helping them
find the root. And it's you're not afraid to address
spiritual warfare, which is like, yeah, so cool. So I
guess that wasn't even a question, was it. I'm just

(15:59):
just like so, I'm kind of deer in the headlights. Oh,
this is great.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I'll answer a part of I think what your question
was is how many people meet? And you know, of
course I meet a lot more of the area that
I'm in but I would argue that you know, there's
some level of that within everyone. People are so fearful.
I mean, that is huge tactic of the enemy is
just to get people so fearful that they can't do anything.

(16:26):
And the United States, I call it the United States
of anxiety. It's the most anxious nation in the world.
Yet we're the most blessed in terms of financial wealth
and influencing the world and all those things. But if
you look at the statistics of anxiety in the world,
it is us we are at the top. And that's
not a category we want to be at the top of.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
When you, for instance, when you travel abroad and do
missions in or countries, I mean the Philippines, Indonesia, you
see people are just happy with very little. And I've
been in poor countries and I'll be like, I am
so stressed out of my mission base and I walk
outside and these Chinese people are just like tear me up,
like who's the missionary here? You know, you ever experience that, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
And sometimes you're tempted to want to stay there because
of that.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
It's like, yes, that's that's a common thing. So when
you're doing this, are you finding the answers through the
word working the best or I mean people like to
just when they find someone like you, they want to
take all your time, like I mean I am already,
Like can I do we get a podcasting host discount?

(17:42):
Like so how do you delegate? Like how do you
deal with these people that they obviously just want to
talk your ear off and and unload but are how
do you steer them into the Word of God that
heals them and into what they need? You know, because
I mean people will listen to podcasts all day, go
on on TikTok, research felim and audi whatever, bigfoot, But

(18:04):
how do you get because this is I need this too,
how do you get those people into the healing that
they need and staying there? You know, it's almost like brainwashing,
the opposite version of brainwatching. You're fighting there, say so, you.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Know, Michael, I love your enthusiasm and your desire, and
I think that's amazing. And I wish I wish every
client was like you. I wish everyone that I met
was that hungry for answers and healing. But the sad
reality is that there are few people that we meet
who are ready. There have been so many that we've

(18:40):
assessed and we've said, hey, we've got we've got some
answers for you, we want to go here with you,
but they're not ready. And that, I would say is
the majority. And so I'm really on this just educational
part of the journey of just letting people know, hey,
there's an influence out here that you need to be
aware of. And then I do belie believe that if

(19:00):
we're patient and we sit with people and we lovingly
come alongside them, that we will have the opportunity to
share the answers from scripture and in truth. But you know,
they have to be ready, they have to be ready
to hear that, and that takes a lot of time
and energy. And I think that's just the news for
all of us as believers, and when we're sharing the

(19:21):
gospel with others, is that we can't just you know,
it wasn't going and knocking on doors. That's what we
used to call it in the South when I was
growing up. You know, my dad was really big on that,
and I think that's great. He's still such an evangelist.
But you have got to, first of all, help people
understand foundational things. And that foundational first thing is that
you were made in the image of God. And that

(19:43):
is a status that is not something that you get incrementally.
It's not something that you know, you get more of
because you have intellect or emotions or will, but it
is a status that you were given from the moment
you were conceived. And because because you were made in
the image of God, that makes you you should lead

(20:04):
you to other questions about well, who is God and
what does that mean? And you know, then you can
get to the places of what your identity is in Christ,
or what your identity is as a human imager, and
those types of truths that can set you free. But
the huge part of what we do in the beginning

(20:26):
is really just lovingly teaching people you're made in the
image of God.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Amen, Doctor Natalie.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
I was thinking about how you said that we are,
according to the Bible as well, made an image of God.
And I know that since there's an intensity and frequency
of these the amount of council leaves and their issues
coming to you, do you think that with the secular

(20:57):
humanism and evolutionary theory that's being pumped out in regular
public schools that you know, we've descended from apes and
there is no God, and that Richard Dawkins thing, and uh,
you know, and and these atheists that are being heralded
as the great scientific minds you know of our time.
Do you think that this is definitely contributing to that

(21:19):
sense of hopelessness and helplessness because they don't see themselves
as made of the image of God.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Absolutely, one hundred percent. And that's the that's the attack
of the enemy. Yes. No, And I will tell you
you know, part of what I have loved about the
Divine Council worldview is that it has taught me. It
has given me so many more answers to the problems
that people have because it tells me where it comes
from initially, And it's not just this Genesis state three.

(21:50):
Everything's a broken world fall. Yes, that is definitely a
part of it, and that could be enough answer for
plenty of people. But when I look more specifically that
Satan's agenda in the garden was to kill humans, then
I can tell you that an attack of suicidal thoughts
or suicidal ideation is not coming from you. It's not

(22:12):
flesh and blood, but it is something outside of you
that is telling you that.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yes, and if you.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Get into it, and then I can go on in
the Genesis six, like the attempt to go specifically against
the bloodline of human and really attack the image of
God through sexuality and through a dangerous drugs, which I
believe addiction is rooted in through things like war and
just evil and hatred and dangerous. You know, we've talked

(22:42):
about pharmaceuticals, war and just this whole attack on the
image of God is not new. It just was formulated
in a different way. And that might look like evolution,
but you know, now the modern day evolutionists are really
pushing this whole transhuman agenda, which is based let's become
better than being a human, you know, let's be and

(23:04):
really again, let's be our own gods. Let's you know,
antiaging everything, let's use aid to you know, genetic engineering,
all these things, and it is so much an attack
of the image of God. And what happens is when
you would gain engage in so much darkness and some
of these different agendas and these ideas, is it produces

(23:28):
terrible outcomes for you mentally and physically.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yes, absolutely, Amen, Doctor Natalie.

Speaker 5 (23:38):
How many questions My brain is like focus here, because
I mean there's still I've been away since two thousand
and four, I guess forty now, so just researching, missionarying,
and then now the last five years watching everything that
they said they would do, happening, COVID lockdowns, getting ready

(24:00):
for the next lockdown, all this kind of stuff. So
obviously you're going to be very busy. So I'm trying
to focus my words here and not get totally manic
here with because I'm not crazy, trust me. Usually I'm
pretty relaxed. This is like constellations are coming together. You're
in my mind about you know, Russ Istar's work and
Ball's work. I've interviewed Jerry Marzinski that said things that

(24:24):
align exactly with what you're saying. People hearing voices telling
them to do horrible things themselves in prison, the same
exact voice with different prisoners that he interviewed over the years.
Jerry Marzinski.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
So, man, I'm trying to formulate one question. Are you
aware of Dan Duvall's work Pride Ministries?

Speaker 1 (24:43):
I am, Yeah, it fascinates me for sure. I've listened
to many of his.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
Podcast Okay, same, great. So I guess so your website
is very accessible for professionals. You're not throwing you know,
it's Steve Quayle nephiliin stuff like his website. It's a
very good camouflage for all the things that you know,
have you engaged have you experienced any like persecution from

(25:12):
other people in the field, like other PhDs doctors, They're
like they find out what you actually talk about and
they're like, hey, that's not a louder you know. Have
you ever experienced any of that like Michael Heiser, I'm
sure did.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
This is still newer to me in promoting these things,
so I'm sure it will come. And to be honest
with you, being a faith based I've never hid the
fact of who I am as a believer and a
follower of Jesus and so but just by nature of that,
I've gotten all types of persecution for that, you know,
and so I'm used to it in that regard. But

(25:49):
I know that there's going to be people and the
more I push this out and the more that I
introduce this that are going to and I've been I
have had thoughts of what will I do for years,
If you know, the state licensure board or the national
licensing or certifying agency comes and says, hey, we're gonna
shut you down? What am I gonna do? And so

(26:11):
I've been thinking about that for a long time, and
I'm willing to stand in truth because I know at
the end of my life who I stand before and
all given account to my life. And that's not a
licensure board. So I'm prepared for that. But I'll tell
you where the persecution has come from has been more
community members, and that has been you know, people running
for a political office who that God has given me

(26:33):
influence in my community. And I'm thankful for that because
I have lovingly walked alongside people for years here and
I have given help to not just churches in the area,
but school systems and given help to businesses and agencies
because I just feel like that's hey, God's given me.
I'm supposed to be in the world, not of it,

(26:54):
so I need to go into all these different places.
But it has definitely come in the ways of just
you know, like I'll give you an example, this lady
who was running for school board in our area. I
had never met. This lady, had no idea who she was,
and I was asked, because of my dissertation research on
pornography to speak at a board meeting by board members

(27:18):
current board members about the harms of it. And I
was really coming from a place of research and really
trying to play into that intellectual person and give you
not I'm not coming in there beating the Bible. I'm
giving you some research that are done by not just
people who are faith based. And she came after me

(27:38):
on Facebook all these things that I should not be
speaking at a meeting that I'm spreading harm. I had
people calling me asking me what my views were on abortion,
all these things, and I'm like, who is this lady?
So it's coming up.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
We got to stay focused here because these I was
involved in a local election here in Waynesville, Team Waynesville,
and they just pulled out every whitch, every lefty communist person.
They trucked him in from Aashville. They just just to
mess and bombard them on Facebook. And Stephanie Sutton pulled
me before the election. She's like, I've also had a

(28:17):
panic attack last night. I'd never I mean, I'm like pretty,
but I've never had this much attack like the So
so You're in good company here with these people. And
I think Michael Heizer did a very wise thing. He
came to the Fringe Radio Network and all these different
kind of l mars Zuli community because you've got so
many fans in that area that are just going to

(28:38):
die and go to heaven just knowing that you exist.
And they need to go to Mental Warrior Consulting dot
com and buy your book because if you don't get
a chance, as I and Darylyn get to talk to
doctor atwell, you can read her book, get on the
online course and hopefully you'll be doing more shows. Those

(28:59):
hey going to hate, you know, but they don't really
live in the same world that we do where we're
seeing demons manifest. And my grandfather, John Dashm was a
deliverance minister and I grew up hearing stories dere princes,
family and all this. So but that's past, Like we
need people now, So I just give you if I
could give you like a million high fights at the

(29:20):
same time.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Thank you, And I will be honest. I feel called
to be in that space of kind of bridging the
gap between mental health, deliverance ministry and just church in general,
because there are plenty of denominations who have no idea
what deliverance ministry is, but they better figure out very quickly,
even if it's not term deliverance ministry in their church

(29:44):
or whatever, people better figure out very quickly what they
are going to do when people in their congregation come
in and say I feel like I've been abducted by
an alien or you know, hey, I'm having these sleep paralysis,
because that's a huge uptick in that as well. And
so we have to be willing as a church to

(30:05):
have these answers. And it can't always be honestly, and
I'm a mental health professional, it can't always be go
to this mental health professional because, for one, unless you
know who they're rooted in and what they believe, you
don't know what they're going to say to someone. But
it also, you know, so I'm trying to be that
bridge of how can we deal with these things from

(30:26):
a mental health perspective and be able to come alongside
the church, if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
You're not you're not against medicine. I heard you say
like this is for when you tried everything and it
still doesn't work. Let's look at the demonic side. So
you're not like a you know, denier of any kind
of medicine or I mean, obviously you're promoting therapy. So
a lot of people are just like, what, No, that's

(30:52):
you know, so yeah navigetting that. How does that work?
Like you're like, all right, let's use this drug, but
it's not obviously hallucinogenic as opposed to maybe you find
something that's kind of on the balance, like maybe like
antidepressants or you know, where is that scale? Ask you

(31:13):
for a friend, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
That's a great you know. I always tell people, you know,
people who in especially in Christian circles, who may say,
you know, you should never take drugs like that and medicine,
and I also want to ask them, well, are you
going to stop taking your kidney medication? You're going to
stop wearing glasses and drive home? I mean I would
rather not do that, you know, And glasses are a

(31:37):
prescription just like medicine is. So I just say, hey, look,
God can use medication as a tool. I do not
think that it should be the answer. It should not
be the answer to your healing. It might help you
get through a season of anxiety, or it might help
you manage your mood disorder. And thank God for those

(31:57):
who have been given the ability to learn the medicines
and things. But I do think everything should be taken
with caution and prayer and humility, and it should not
necessarily be a one stop approach.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Absolutely, doctor Natalie. I feel like I should share these
personal experiences with you of mental illness as it intersects
with spirituality.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
So my mother.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Unfortunately committed suicide when I was twelve, and so I
was devastating and now fifty one, and that was quite
a while ago, but still I always feel that loss
every now and again, that you know, I didn't grow
up with a mom that my father had to be
mister mom. And it was a combination of different things, like,
for example, my dad and my late mom had come

(32:46):
from Thailand to California as the first state that they
had lived in as immigrants. So she was away from
her culture and from her language, from her food, from
her family, from her friends. And then my father because
of that, in his midlife christ he was an old

(33:08):
older father so to speak, and so he had his
midlife crisis plus the things I just mentioned, and he,
you know, wasn't so understanding towards her, and they fought
a lot and what have you. So unfortunately she was
put on different medications and that actually didn't help. So
I definitely think that it was a spiritual cause along

(33:30):
with the physical and mental.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Origins of this.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
And then my ex husband I was married from age
twenty to twenty four. We got divorced when I was
twenty four, and he I never grew up with this,
but he had bipolar disorder, and so one moment he
was well, maybe I shouldn't say a moment, but a
few days he was nice and the man I married,
and he was even Christian evangelical. He wanted to become

(33:55):
a pastor and share the Lord with the world. He
would witness everybody almost he met, but then he would
turn a corner easily, and just like that, he would
turn evil and mean and verbally and mentally and sometimes
physically abusive towards me. And so it's been definitely a
difficult road for the first several years of my life,

(34:16):
and that actually propelled me to want to learn about
Christian psychology. And I have an associates degree from Liberty University,
ironically in psychology, but for various reasons, I haven't gotten
my master's yet, and I'm ten classes away from a
bachelor degree. But for various reasons, I haven't gotten the
bachelor's yet, but I will hope to embark on that soon,

(34:37):
Praise God. So doctor Natalie, for somebody who absolutely refuses therapy,
they don't have they like my ex husband, he would
say he doesn't have There's no way he can have
demonic oppression. He's not open to any type of herbs
or supplements or medication. What would you say to somebody
who absolutely just doesn't think they have an issue yet,

(34:58):
you know, beyond the shadow of a doubt they've got issues.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well, I would say that you have to take care
of yourself in terms of safety and security and the
best ways you can, and you really have to pray
and seek God in that discernment. But it's boundaries are
a huge thing. I mean, Jesus set boundaries with people
and we have to do the same thing. And sometimes
that looks like something that you can't wrap your mind around,

(35:27):
like I need to get out of relationship with this person,
especially if they're unwilling to get help. You can't force someone,
that's for sure. There is a huge part of you know,
we have free will and we have choice, and so
healing is available, deliverance is available, but people have to
be willing to make that first step.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Have you counseled any women that they separated or divorced
from their husband who have these issues that physically and
or verbally and or mentally abusive and they refuse to change.
Have you counseled women like that? And have you had
have you seen situations where the church, unfortunately may have
counseled her to stay with that with that husband. Have

(36:13):
you seen that type of situation scenario?

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Sadly, yes, I have, and one example that actually comes
to mind as one of the most heartbreaking ones. And
to me, it still amazes me that she, you know,
wants to be a part of a church, you know,
and and loves Jesus, which is honestly evidence that he
is real to her in her life because when people
use him to abuse someone, or use the guys of

(36:38):
religion to say you need to stay an abusive relationship,
that is so demonic in an age, so evil. But she,
you know, went to a pastor, was trying to talk,
and that pastor actually then tried to sexually abuse her,
which is a very beautiful woman, you know. And then
you know, the humans anger side of me is like,

(36:59):
who see, I'm going to his house?

Speaker 3 (37:01):
You know that's right.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Watch irish part of me wants to go put in
the throat.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
To be honest, right, I would too.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
I'm a very therapeutic tactic, but right you felt like it. Yeah,
And I get so angry about people who say that
they follow the God that I know and love and serve,
a God who is defined by being the definition of
love and harm people. It makes me so angry. But

(37:28):
I know also that that they are operating, you know,
in the forces of darkness as well, and I have
to remember what we truly wrestle against and I have
to pray against that. But then I also have to say,
you know what, God sent this person to me, and
I need to be a part of their healing. And
so a huge part of actually the most thing that
I do in therapy is deal with people who have

(37:48):
what I call spiritual trauma. And there's a huge increase
of that to that church hurt these people who are
going through the whole you know, popular deconstructive movement or
whatever is. I'm thankful that they came to me so
I can say I'm sorry for what the church did
for you, did to your I apologize for how so
called people who said, their followers of Jesus have treated you.

(38:10):
Let me tell you about the true Jesus and what
he came to do and what he came to, you know, to.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Free from amen.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
I have another question, doctor Natalie. Why is it that
the Lord. I don't know, this is not God's perfect will,
but why is it that the Lord allows, say, demons
to latch on to trauma or occult involvement, or sexual
immorality or whatever. Why is it the Lord allows these

(38:42):
demonic spirits to oppress and or possess a person when
they engage in this, or maybe have a past like
a generational type of iniquity upon them.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
I think the simple answer to that, and I haven't
figured it all out yet, still learning, but is that
we have free will. And the reality is that even
angelic beings, even divine beings, have free will because evidenced
by some of them fail, some of them chose to
leave their heavenly abode, as Scripture would say. And so
because you have these two, our enemies of God, and

(39:15):
they have free will, and we have free will, then
there can become an engagement, and that the openness to
the evil influence is what I call them. I don't
always like to say demonic because it might not actually
be a demon. It could be another fallen entity, the power, guardness,
spiritual forces of heavenly places, principalities, all the things. And so,
you know, I kind of just say evil influences as

(39:36):
a you know, umbrella. But you know, sometimes it's people's
own choices that they've engaged in that and some and
that's again because of free will, and sometimes it's because
of their past generational family choices that have allowed them
to be a part of the influence of evil. And

(40:00):
you know, again, I don't always understand the ways of God.
That he wouldn't be God if I fully understood him right,
And some things are a mystery. I do know even
in Genesis. You know what Joseph said, I love that
is that you know what you intended for harm against me,
God used for good. And so what I think the
answer that I have been able to provide to people

(40:22):
is I don't always understand. I know that God ultimately
his ideal was Eden, and that was to be walking
and communion with him, for you to be in his family,
and for you to have dominion over the earth and
enjoy that walking in your purpose. But there is this
you know, attack of the enemy who wanted to go

(40:43):
away from that, and there's going to be an attack.
But here's the good news is that God will never
waste your pain, and only a good God, only the
most high, can actually use your pain for good. You know,
the enemy those prints if you look at people who've
experienced SRA or anything like that, ritualistic abuse, the worst

(41:05):
types of trauma. The enemy's agenda is to use that
against them for evil. And God allows things. If he
allows it, it is it can be for good.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Amen. I totally agree with that.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
Hallelujah. Yeah, that's that's the vision. I'm just looking at
your book, Carrie. I can do anything in the right
pair of shoes, and I love your your high heels
kind of logo. And I have this vision of the
Bride of Christ just stepping on the devil's head, you know,
piercing its snout with her high heels, you know, just

(41:43):
like it is trying to get you. You'll bruise your heel,
but oh boy, you're gonna crush his head. And it's
it's going to be a great picture. And it is
every day and I see that. Would you like to
talk about your book a little bit too, because I
see you just had a release of It's just a
very positive and happy title. It's not like mental trauma,

(42:04):
feeling awareness, plastic satan, you know, like most people that
know this stuff. So please talk about your book.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Oh, thank you for asking. You know, it's actually an
attempt of weaving my personal story into some of the
things I've learned and treating people over the years, and
just walking alongside people because I was born with club feet,
so I you know, I always joke I could be
like a circus freak. I have two different sauce feet.
Like not like people who say they have two different
sauce feet, but like I have to buy two different

(42:34):
pair of shoes most of the time. So I use
that to we've you know, my story and just telling
people how I've overcome some of the trauma in my
own life and what I've learned. You know, there's not
a whole lot about the divine counsel or the demonic
because I actually wrote that prior to learning a lot
of this. But the cool thing is when I go

(42:55):
back and read it now, I can see how God
wore a lot of those themes within the book, and
I'm just so excited about that. So it really can
be a book for all audiences who just really want
to learn how to walk in peace in a very
turbulent world. And we are in a turbulent world.

Speaker 5 (43:13):
I feel the longer I have known about these things
in like two decades now, the more important something that
is just simple that brings peace, that is just this works.
You know, this Word of God works. You know, I'm
becoming a word of faith Christian now I'm just speaking
against the fear and I have peace and God and works.

(43:33):
Instead of like tell me, tell me what else the
aliens did?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (43:37):
And then and then how did they torture you that? Oh?
Oh what kind of what was it? Like the bug kind?
Or were like the monkey kind? Or I mean that
doesn't bring peace. But the Word of God and love.
I can sense you really truly care about people, like
you really have that giving heart, which is why I
hope you have a lot of clones or workers. People

(43:58):
are going to be like, oh no, put me Natalie
on the phone. Are you waking through the morning? Just
that's Those are the therapists that I've known or counselors
that I work with. They never sleep unless they turn
their phones off. No, anyway, bravo to keeping things simple.

(44:20):
And are you working on any other books that are
going to kind of connect those dots of sort of
the weird stuff that you're now aware of.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
And yes, I have outlined the book and I'm definitely
working on it. So if you have any title suggestions,
you know, because you don't want to like have an
alien on the front and you're because you're gonna, you know,
I really want to be a bridge.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
The high heel piercing the alien eye.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
That is the feeling to me.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
Actually right, Well, that that's interesting that that Michael brought
up that that you are, in a sense in the
spiritual realm, you know, using your your your high heel
to to bruise you know, the enemy's head with your
counseling practice. Now I went to your website and I
see that you've got your book. I can do anything
in the right pair of shoes, you know. I think

(45:10):
a lot of times when young ladies, like if I
were fourteen, when I was before I got saved, I
was when my mother committed suicide when I was twelve,
it seemed that that spirit actually came over to me,
and I became suicidal age thirteen and fourteen, and I
almost took my life. And even though my best friend
wasn't necessarily like talking Christian biblical words to me, she

(45:33):
would say, you know, you.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Are special, Jerry, you are important.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
And there's only one of you, and even talked about
the biological you know, uniqueness of me and what have you.
And I'm like, okay, that makes sense. So I mean
the Lord was actually using that. And also the Lord
was using the fact that if I were to take
my life, then my father would be left alone with
a wife and a daughter that has committed suicide.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
So those two thoughts were actually the things the Lord used.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Even though it wasn't overtly biblic the Lord still used
those two thoughts from my best friend and you know,
my concern about my father to prevent me from doing so.
And then when I came to know the Lord, I
felt that darkness leave, and that suicide and the depression left.
And I do believe that was a generational thing that

(46:17):
when the scriptures talk about when an demonic spirit leaves
a person and they go back to where that person
uh where that their previous home was, and bring seven
of their friends with them to try to, you know,
possess that person even more so so, and I would
even take it a step further that, you know, considering
the Bible talks about generational iniquity or generational curses and

(46:39):
sins and whatever. So since my mother unfortunately took her life,
since there was no home to go back to, they
went to the her heir, which would be me. And
since I didn't have Jesus, you know, then then I
was an empty vessel. And then that's why the enemy
tried to you know, oppress me, you know.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
And such.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Anyway, so so back to my my previous thought was,
so a lot of these young ladies, you know, they
feel uncomfortable with themselves because of their their looks. You know,
if they should have short hair, they want long hair.
If they have straight hair, they want curly hair. If
they have blonde hair, they want brenette hair. If they're brenette,
they want to be blonde, or you know, and just
or they want if they're if they're a little overweight,

(47:18):
they want to be a little underweight.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
If they're a little out underweight, they want to be
a little overweight.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
You know.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
So a lot percent there's I would have to say
ninety nine percent of ladies out there are not comfortable
in their own skin for whatever reason. And it's definitely
like you were saying that that the enemy wants to
really suppress their knowledge that they are a beautiful and
wonderfully made in the image of God.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
And do you think social media.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Has has a lot to contribute to the ladies and boys?
To girls and boys low self.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Esteem one hundred percent, And the secular research supports that
if you look at the increases of anxiety, suicides, depression
in younger people and correlate that with the res of
social media, it definitely links. And I don't know how
anybody could argue that it doesn't. And I'll give you

(48:09):
an example from the Philippines is this past year, I
go every year and do pastoral training and work with
girls who have experienced trauma in a home. And one
of my therapists goes with me and she's fantastic. But
we this year did suicide prevention rallies and that was
based out of a need that was represented to us

(48:31):
because they have had a massive increase in suicides in
the Philippines. And the sad reality is if you would
look that up online. You wouldn't see that documented because
they don't they don't actually report it, and they don't
have a good documentation system like we would have here
in the US, so you can't really see that. But
I know the stories, and I know these people in

(48:52):
these villages who've said, we had one in the past
five years, and we had seven this year.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Oh my goodness, that's massive, heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yes, And they are the ones who would tell me
that they believed it was in direct relationship to since
the pandemic, they got more cell phone towers because they
were on huge lockdowns, and they had to increase people's
access to the internet for learning, for all kinds of things,
and so all of their teenagers who didn't even have

(49:23):
a phone were now given access and now on social media,
and that is a huge and they believe that that
is a massive difference in you know, what's influenced the
suicide rates increasing dramatically there, right, And I totally agree,
you know, definitely a part of it.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (49:45):
I go ahead, Sorry, I have another statement.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Oh sorry, Michael, I just wanted to say comment. It's okay,
I'll just make this comment question. So I just connected
with some friends here in the Orlando area, and one
of my friend's fiance's or boyfriends, he's a school counselor,
and he said that he's probably.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Been doing this for maybe twenty maybe thirty years.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
He said, like twenty you know, ten twenty years ago,
absolutely no way would there be such high of a
suicide rate. And I don't remember his stats, but it
was more like maybe one suicide a year, maybe ten
plus years ago, but it's just ramped up to where
it's more like, you know, ten or twenty suicides a
year now. And I think it's like you said that,

(50:30):
the social media comparisons, you know, like, oh, I have
all these issues and this person has this beautiful, healthy, wealthy,
you know, life and everything and they're perfect and I'm
so imperfect.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
That type of thing.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
So social media and also the separation due to the
I call it the plandemic, and that they want you
to be six feet apart. They want you to stay
home and do online learning. And so the powers that
be would say, oh, this is good to be separated
at home. That way you're not exposing people to COVID
and vice versa. But I did, I did read that

(51:03):
the reason why they say six feet is because within
five feet or less you can feel a person's presence.
And I'm not in a new wage or anything, but
you can feel their aura so to speak, you know,
or you can feel their spirit. That's more the Christian
term that you could feel their spirit and soul within
five feet. So they want you to be literally detached

(51:23):
from people and not touching them, not no emotional or
physical connection or whatever. So anyway, it was just a comment,
So I'm sorry, Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Michael, I can respond to that.

Speaker 5 (51:36):
But oh yes, please do, please do please.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah. So yeah, I think that again the attack of
the enemy is, you know, he knows the frequency distance
and and what that looks like. And really, if you
can look at areas of neuroscience and theology and kind
of marry that. One of the people who I think
does the really good job of that is Jim Wilder
and Michael Hendrix in their their book called The Other

(52:00):
Half of Church, and they talk about specifically like how
joy is expressed to another person, and if you think
about it in scripture, it's the face of God to
its one on one interaction. And if you look at studies,
you know, you and I if we were actually together,
all three of us meeting together, we would have much
more of a joy response than we do. Even now.

(52:22):
We can have it now, which is great, it's not
near what it would be if we were actually in person.

Speaker 5 (52:28):
And that's science.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
I would love that, but science, you know, actually proves that.
But the funny thing is, you know, then you've also
had this other science saying we have to do this
for Grandma, which is such a tactical the enemy, you know, No,
it's going against you being an imager of God and
God creating you, and he designed you to be in

(52:55):
relationship with other people. God said the longly families. And
that does not happen through technology. It happens when you're
in the presence of another, the physical presence of another.
And yeah, it is definitely an attack of the enemy.
And you can't even build healthy attachments if you don't

(53:17):
have that joy expressed, which is that building that love,
that loving, loyal attachment. A good example of that is
like Ruth and Naomi.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Yes, and mother in law.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
You know, I love my mother in law, But not
many people to leave their family for their mother in law, right,
Obviously there had to be something to that way that
mother in law's.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
God, you know, that's mother in law in the world.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yeah, I have a great mother in law too.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
That's a loving, loyal attachment. And you have to have,
you know, loving loyal attachments to be able to I mean,
if you don't have those, I'll tell you Addiction is
centered in the attachment part of the brain. So it's
like an unhealthy attachment. Yes, there's so many things that
you're missing if you don't get the spiritual truth of

(54:05):
the matter. Yes, so in so many ways, science is
catching up with scripture, That's what I like to say.
But yet so the enemy is just still trying to
pervert it even more.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Agreed, Absolutely truth bombs for sure.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
What can people do that are feeling lonely struggling?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
You know?

Speaker 5 (54:24):
And then there's they've got that phone, you know, all
day And I mean if people are lonelier than ever,
they're just isolated more than ever. Maybe they don't have
I have a loving family, but maybe they don't have that.
What can what's some like some practical steps that someone
can take? Do you recommend just go find some random
mental health place, because I find most of them here

(54:48):
in wayswild They are all super ultra lefty, weird, witchcrafty strongholds. Yeah,
where does somebody even start with that?

Speaker 2 (54:58):
You know?

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah, you know, I would say to find someone who
can just love you for being and meet you where
they are. And I would you know, I'd like to say,
God gave us the model of a church, so you know,
if you can find a good Bible believing church and
try to find community there, that can be helpful. Again,
it is not perfect, and if you haven't found a

(55:21):
good one, go in search of another one you know,
or you know, try to find, you know, a godly neighbor.
Sometimes it can be that simple as just you know,
we don't do that enough anymore, is just going next
door and getting to know someone, you know. I'm I'm
kind of old school, and I make my children go
check on our elderly neighbors regularly. I'm like, go check

(55:41):
the thruth across the street, you know, and she loves
that and they need that as well. But that is
such a healthy thing for them to do for you know,
their own mental health, in their spiritual health and all
the things. But I mean, it doesn't have to be ideally.
If you could find a good, godly counselor that you
can sit with and they just love you and meet

(56:03):
you where you are. Is a wonderful thing. But we
need more than that too, you know, we do need community.
And again I think that's why God gave us the church,
and you know, but again that's of course not always
an answer. But I would say, whatever you have to do,
find some people, some good community, people who love you.

(56:23):
I love you enough to tell you the truth, the
truth of God's love.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
Amen, I am signing up for this program. Actually, well,
the best I can do is offer you more podcast
slots on the Fringe Radio network where we're trying to
get well it's lowly sad people together. But then in
the next room, we've got an actual downtown base that
we're reaching out to people and we want to get
It would be really great to have like a poster

(56:48):
or some contact form for people to get a hold
of your work. How can people contribute, How can people
help and work with you? Because you have a very
broad I'm clicking right now, consulting in person, guest speaking,
mission counseling, online courses. What's like the best place people
can just take my money or work together?

Speaker 1 (57:11):
You know, honestly, I would say, first of all, if
you're a believers, to go out and be a good
imager of God and love people well. Perfect love cast
out fear, and so you don't need to be fearful
of asking the hard questions of somebody, of going across
the street and loving your neighbor and all those things.
But I would say to go alongside that is, if

(57:32):
you do need mental health help, you can, you know,
try to find a good godly counselor in your area.
Lord knows, I can't see everyone in my practice, can't
see everyone. But if you do want to understand what
the differences are between mental health and spiritual you know,
manifestation or spiritual warfare, you can certainly take my course

(57:53):
and you know, really gleaned from the biblical truths that
are in that and share that with as many people
as you can so that more people can understand mental
health from this biblical viewpoint of how to deal with
these dark influences in the world.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
That's awesome, doctor Natlie. So your two websites are Mental
Warrior Consulting dot com and the other one.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Is that that's probably the biggest one for just people
who are in the Charlotte area because the other one
is just related to my private practice. Do you do
all there are ways to support from a mission standpoint,
you know, I have this. I actually got decided to
start this clothing line for mental health and wellness that

(58:37):
and it's actually the clothing line on all the proceeds
go to support the mission trips. So I can say
to my counseling staff, Hey, do you want to go
to Nicaragua. You don't have to pay for it. You know,
I hate fund raising, you know what I mean, or
support raising. So I was like, maybe the God gave
me that id he gave me that idea for that specifically,
but you can certainly donate there as well. But I

(58:59):
do going to donate and be a hateful person out
in the world. I don't want that. I think the
biggest thing you right to be a good imager of
God and love people will meet them where they are.
Don't be scared of the weird things, and know that
perfect love cast out fear, and that's God. So when
you can share God with another person, no matter what
they're going through, that is the most important thing that

(59:22):
you can do. And then if you're battling with it
is to reach out to others and get help.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Absolutely, doctor Nellie. So how can they donate to help
fund the missions that you're talking about? Is it on
Mental Worrior Consulting dot com.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, if you go there and then you go to
the counseling threads, there's a donate tab that way, so
or you can buy.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Sure okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Also I'll definitely have that in the show notes for sure.
And doctor Nedlie, Well, I was away I heard that
you were saying that you had gotten some persecution from
some people in the community or what have you for
your biblical stance, and I just want to applaud you
and bravo for take that strong stands for the Lord,
and you have the answers. We as imagers of God

(01:00:05):
who've received Jesus in our hearts, we have the answers.
And we shouldn't back down or sit down, or be
fearful or anxious or nervous or worried about what other
people think. But the enemy oftentimes wants us to shut
up and wants us to be quiet, because we don't
want to be rejected, we don't want to be canceled,
we don't want to be shunned by people in our community, family, friends, online,

(01:00:26):
et cetera. And so I just want to thank you
so much for taking a stand and not baking backing down,
because so often when we get rejected, sometimes self included,
we take a step down, and we were not as
bold as what have you. And what happened to me
in twenty twenty was when the planneddemic came out. I
started talking about the red pill stuff, about how this

(01:00:49):
was planned by the powers that be and you know this,
that and the other and exposing the dangers of the
vax and some people called me a tinfoil hat wearer
and you know and whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
And so I did back down.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
I stopped talking about it because I didn't want to
be shunned and rejected by people. But you know what,
that's what Jesus said that if we're going to follow
him to the full extent, we will, you know, be persecuted.
So I want to just give you if I wore
a hat, I'd give you a hats off. I would
take it off for you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
So doctor Delli, so oh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Saying that for sure is okay? If I just want
to say something here is that you know, I guess
some of the things I'm learning too, is that the
world's answers are not making people mentally well. They're not
bringing people into a place of healing and health. It
is making them sicker, it's making them feel worse. It

(01:01:40):
might make them feel better in a moment, but ultimately,
over time it's not. And so if that means I
have to stand up to a local school board or
whatever and say, actually, pornography is not good for your kids,
then I'm going to do that because no matter what
comes at me, and it is tempting, trust me. And
I had those moments like oh, what did I do wrong?
What should I be doing differently? You know, is this

(01:02:01):
going to shut me down? But at the end of
the day, I know that that answer is not helping people,
and I want to help you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Yes, amen, for sure, doctor Nellie. We thank you so
much from the bottom of our hearts, and we appreciate you.
We're honored and blessed by you sharing your ministry and
how you're helping people both here and abroad. And so oh,
one last question I had before I forget, So do
you do zoom counseling sessions or is your practice all

(01:02:31):
in person in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Yeah, we do have a telehealth option.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
For awesome alsome.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
Yeah, oh great, great, all right, Michael, did you have
a last question?

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
Just really looking forward to somehow collaborating, you know. I mean,
you're pretty close to my family's ministry downtown and we're
setting up our downtown ministry here in Waynesville. So just
keep keep working hard for the Lord, and maybe we
can get some of your books in our in our
ministry base. It's all kinds of things that we can do.

(01:03:05):
I look forward to collaborating if we can.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Thank you, Lord, Amen, I'd love to collaborate for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:03:11):
Yeah. I sent you an email. All right, cool, I
got to run forgot.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Oh yeah, I've got to run to you. I've got
a big tax stuff moving.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
And this is so great.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Thank you, Natalie, absolutely, thank you so much for your
time and energy, and we really appreciate you, and God
bless you, and thanks so much for.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
I'd love to be on anytime.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Absolutely love to have you back for part two and
part three and what have you. Your your message is
very vitally crucially important and and uh Lord is really
utilizing you, and we hope and pray that we can
also be utilized in whatever ministry God's called us to
do too. Thank you so much everybody for listening or
watching the Cross File Strange of Clock podcast with doctor
Natalie Atwell and I'm your host Jerry.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
Thank you, and I'm Michael Later.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
We appreciate you. By God Blas she as