May 25, 2025 • 32 mins
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FIND ELGEN'S WORK HERE - Falling Out
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello listeners and or welcome to you this special re
release series of the live talks that I have recorded
at crime Con UK. As we are so close to
the event in London now on the seventh and eighth
of June twenty twenty five, I thought it would be
a great opportunity to re upload the talks that I've
done previously at this event. For those of you that
(00:22):
have been tuning in for a while, these talks might
be familiar to you, but for those who are new
to the show, here is a taste of what you
can expect from crime Con UK across the weekend in London.
We will also be in Manchester in September and I
hope to be doing a talk at this event too.
This year, I am lucky enough to be on a
panel with Laura Richards no Less talking about coercive control
(00:46):
and cult. You can buy your tickets at crimecon dot
co dot uk and use the code cult cult at
the checkout for ten percent off your tickets. Patrons also
receive a fifteen percent discount code you can contact me
for directly. Crime Card UK, sponsored by True Crime, is
the UK's biggest true crime event, advocating for survivors, victims
(01:11):
and policy change in the UK. I really can't wait
for this weekend and I hope to see you there.
I hope you enjoy these re uploads and get in
touch let me know what you think and if you'll
be there for the weekend. Hello everyone, Welcome to this
live session, and thank you all for joining me here
today to talk about cults, coercion and corruption. My name
(01:34):
is Casey and I am the host of the Cult
Fat podcast, which is a long format, primarily interview based podcast.
The focuses on the true stories of individuals who are
survivors that have experienced cults, high demand groups, and more.
When the show started just over two years ago, it
(01:57):
was a researched and single home scripted show with me
looking at a different infamous cult each week, and all
I really knew of cults at that time was what
I had consumed from true crime documentaries and other podcasts.
And around episode four of the show, I was approached
(02:20):
by an author who asked if I would be interested
in reading her memoir about her experience in a place
called Zendic Farm. I don't know if anyone's heard of Zendick.
Really interested in commune so I recommend anybody interested in
the subject to go and read up about that. Helen
Zooman had penned this memoir called Mating in Captivity about
(02:41):
her time in a group that had a radical take
on sex and relationships. And after I read this memoir,
I realized that there was just so much more to
this subject than I'd ever really considered. And I asked
Helen if she would be willing to come on the
show and chat with me, and she said yes, and
so Helen was the first guest on my show and
after that the trajectory of the podcast just changed completely.
(03:05):
I have really had the privilege of being able to
interview almost two hundred survivors of cults and high demand
groups at this point, and many of you may not
realize that the tactics that are involved in cults and
coercion are in operation in everyday situations, and some of
(03:25):
you may have experienced some of these tactics personally. One
or one cults exist in domestic abusive relationships and also
exist in environments that you can hear about other panels
across the weekend, things that include, you know, street gangs,
and there's ex offenders and people who have been through
(03:45):
the prison system as well, which in itself has those
types of methodologies in place. So although colts may seem
like things that exist far away from us, and that
we as people could never be encouraged into a cult
or a high demand group, I want to share with
you all today why that simply isn't true. And to
(04:06):
help me with this, I have an amazing guest. Someone
who was born into a movement with no choice on
his participation, someone who has made it his mission to
highlight the coercion, abuse and corruption of this particular group.
Someone who has his own compelling platform and uses his
voice for change whilst giving others the chance to tell
(04:28):
their story too. So please welcome my special guest of
the Falling Out podcast, Elgin Straight. J Jesus. So, Elgin,
would you like to start by introducing yourself to the listeners?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Sure, thank you everyone for being here. I'm amazed to
see the turnout. It's quite encouraging. So yeah. So, as
Casey mentioned, my name is Elgin Straight. I was born
into a cult called the Unification Church. It's more were
commonly known as the Moonies. That's sort of the pop
culture terminology for it. I left that cult mentally when
(05:09):
I was around eighteen years old, but due to the
immense pressure that the cult placed upon us to marry
other people from the cult, I accepted an arranged marriage
to someone within the cult, and my marriage lasted for
about fifteen years, and when it was all over, I
(05:33):
sort of felt like for the first time, I could
like look back at my life for the first time
with no attachments to the cult. So I almost feel
like I left twice. And at that moment, that's when
I really tried to understand what happened to me and
what happened to my family. I read a lot of books,
(05:54):
I took a lot of courses, and it became quite
clear to me that very common trade amongst cult most
cults is that they employ a lot of guilt, secret guilt,
and shame UH. They use that tactic against their members,
and and that that creates an air of secrecy uh
within the within the cult. And it occurred to me
(06:17):
that throughout my life it would have been immense value
to me if I had just heard the stories of
other people who had left the cult, and so I
decided to to try to document that on my own show,
Falling Out so my show falling out as me effectively
interviewing other people who grew up in the same cult uh,
(06:37):
talking about their experiences within it, exposing the abuses within it,
UH and talking them through their journey of leaving it
and how they were rebuilding their life afterwards. I'm very
pleased to say that I've lost count of the number
of people who have left the cult as a direct
result of listening to the show. Sorry, it's quite emotional
for me to say that, but that is that is
(07:00):
the reality. I feel extremely privileged to have been able
to help people do that. So yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That, Thank you all, Jin And I mean, it's not
easy to ask you to give us a summary or
a brief history of the Unification Church. But for anybody
that isn't too familiar with the movement, is there a
quick kind of round up that you can give us.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, it's going to have to be a very short version.
So okay, It's called the Moonies because it was started
by a guy named Sun Young Moon Moon to place
this in space time, Moon was born in what is
now in North Korea in nineteen twenty at the age
of sixteen. He claims he had a revelation from God
(07:46):
telling him that it was his job to carry on
the unfulfilled mission of Jesus. So that's one of the
core tenants of the faith is that Jesus failed in
his mission and a second coming was required. Moon claimed
that he was the second coming. Obviously, they always claim
it's them when they have these revelations. It's never anyone else.
(08:08):
And to create this sort of new Garden of Eden
on Earth, humanity had to be so called grafted onto
a pure blood lineage that Moon could create through a
variety of methods I won't get into now, just because
we don't have enough time. Moon in the late fifties
(08:31):
into the early sixties, he was basically running a sex
cult in Korea at the time, and he went to
jail a few times for doing that, although that's not
the story that the cult tells you. And eventually, I
think his sordid past running that sex cult in Korea,
combined with his sense for the market opportunity for extremism
(08:55):
in the US, led him to flee his past in
Korea and moved to the US in the sixties. At
that point, the cult started aggressively recruiting cult members in
the us, including my parents. And we'll talk about the
coercion methodology later. But to call it a religion is
(09:17):
actually is actually, I think a complete misdirection, and it's
intentional because what the moonis really is is it's an enormous,
enormous constellation of front groups. I cannot over exaggerate the
enormity of this spider web. I saw a list created
in nineteen eighty and it had fourteen hundred front groups
(09:40):
listed on it. Those were just the ones that were
known then, and that was forty years ago. And all
of those front groups served to bring money and power
back to Moon and back to his family. And to
give you a couple examples there, the Moon family. Moon
started the newspaper of the Washington Times. He owns it
(10:04):
or his family, his family owns it, and that is
a font of right wing misinformation and disinformation. That's a whole, other,
whole other story. But Moon has basically grafted himself on
to the right wing in America and served as as
a useful mouthpiece for them in a variety of different ways.
It's a lot of influence there. Did anyone eat sushi
(10:26):
today or in the last few days? Any hands? Okay,
there's a ninety percent chance that that sushi came from
a Mooney run business, the Mooney's own company, a few
companies that that supply ninety percent of the sushi to
the US and Europe. I'm guilty as well of eating sushi,
(10:48):
even though I notice that they own a gun company
in America. So there, there and all of that. Yeah,
it serves to to bring money and power back to Moon.
And it's worth saying that all of that was built
on the backs of our parents, who were basically coerced
into working for Moon for free effectively or reduce reduced
(11:13):
rates working for one of these front organizations. My parents
worked for the Washington Times for pretty much their entire careers. Sorry,
let me pause there. And last thing to say is
Moon died in twenty twelve, but the cult lives on
in a variety of his family members. So it sort
(11:34):
of splintered into this like game of throne situations where
they're all trying to like fight for the remains of
the empire across a few different factions, including a couple
of his sons, one of his daughters, his wife, sorry widow,
but yeah, his widow. They're all fighting for it and
it's a complete disaster. But it bizarrely, it actually makes
(11:56):
a good a good environment for me to be speaking
out because they're too busy fighting each other to really
care about what I'm doing, what I'm doing now, and
if I make one of them look bad, the other
ones are like, yeah, don't they look like shit? And Okay, yeah,
that's how you want to roll fine, So anyway, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And one of the reasons that moon was able to
make this religious movement so big with thousands of followers worldwide,
was through a set of methodologies that were kind of
carefully honed over a number of years. So one of
(12:33):
the things we just discussed on our Zoom call last
week was the initial introduction of the first generation into
the church. So we kind of started at love bombingah
and the kind of first generation process of somebody being
brought into one of these groups. So I wondered, if
you could just talk.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Us through that process. Absolutely, can I just ask again,
show of hands love bombing? Anyone familiar with the term? Okay,
nearly everyone. That term was coined by the Moonies. They
created it in the sixties, in the seventies, and now
it's most commonly known as the most common context that
(13:10):
you all are probably familiar with it is in the
context of of dating and trying to win someone over.
But the Moonies, the Moonies started it, they invented it,
and it was specifically to coerce people to become full
time members. And the way it worked back then and
it's still happening today, is it usually starts with someone
(13:35):
from the opposite sex approaching you on on the street
or in some sort of public setting, and that's intentional.
Having to be someone from the opposite sex put injects
a little bit of sexual chemistry and sexual energy and
attraction into that very first inter interaction that you have
with someone. So an attractive person walks up to you
and says, hey, we're hosting this dinner. Are you interested
in world peace? Are are you interested in making the
(13:55):
world a better place? Okay, if you are, you should
come to this cultural event that we're sting at our
at our house. Sounds very innocuous. No one mentions anything
about the cult, uh, And it's almost intentionally something that
will be impossible to disagree with. Do you want to
end hunger? Yeah? Okay, of course, I'll like, like, no
one's gonna kind of disagree with this. So inevitably, some
(14:16):
people end up coming to these to an event and
it's it's like a potlock dinner or something like that.
Some like a barbecue type of thing. But when you're there,
you don't know it, but you're the mark. You're the target.
When you get there, you are the target for love bombing,
and everyone there knows knows who's a member and who's
(14:38):
not a member. If you're not a member. You walk
into the room and everyone showers you with attention.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You walk in and it might be kind of subtle,
but all of a sudden, you're the most interesting person
in the room. Everyone cares about what you say. Everyone's
everyone's interested. They'll laugh at your jokes, and they'll make
you feel loved. You get you get the sort love
and affection that a rock star or a celebrity would get.
It's not normal to feel that, but it creates a
(15:06):
little dopamine hit, creates a little dopamine hit, and when
you leave, you miss it. You want that, You want
that dopamine hit back. So then when they say, hey,
actually we're doing we're doing a longer event. It's actually
like a weekend weekend away. We're doing you know, we're
doing this. Uh, we're doing this retreat. Would you like
to come? You might say, okay, and you go there.
(15:28):
The love bombing continues once you're isolated, though they have
more control. They can control what you eat, they can
control when you sleep, they can control nearly all aspects
of your life. And at that point they start to
whittle down your defenses whilst maintaining the love bombing pressure,
and over time, in that environment, when your defenses are low,
(15:50):
they also intentionally isolate you from the people that you
love and the people that know about you and care
about you, and they make it increasingly difficult for you
to go and talk to them, even just to call
them on the phone. They do this little by little,
but over time they're wearing you down, and eventually it
might be like, go to barbecue one length, then they
invite you somewhere for the weekend. Then they invite you
somewhere for seven days. Then maybe it's two weeks. They
(16:11):
know those two weeks. Finally they mentioned, oh, by the way,
this is about Moon and he's the Messiah, and would
you like to join. But by that point it's been
this long and gradual process not even that long, but
it's been intentionally gradual. No one's upfront about what's happening
to begin with. So that's one example of one of
(16:31):
the coercion tactics.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And something I've found quite familiar across a lot of
the interviews I've done is that after that love bombing
comes a lot of the toxic positivity. So maybe messages
of you know, well, maybe you should come to as
many activities as Sally's coming to because she's committing this
much time to the church, and wouldn't it be great
(16:53):
if you you know, So it's kind of starting to
add that element of you know, we'd be nice to
you if you give us more.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah. Yeah, they start demanding from you. And then and
if you start adding any negativity or questioning, they use
that against you. They say it's because you're you're you're
not you're not strong enough, you're two weak that in
this case, in the case the moon is they might
tell you that it's Satan invading you, the spirit world
is affecting you if you have any sort of negativity
or questioning.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So if if that's how the first generation of the
Unification Church members were introduced to the church, why is
it after the love bombing and the toxic positivity that
people stay that they don't leave, which leads to, of
course the second generation and survivors such as yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, a lot of it has to do with the
fact that it's it's it's it's an all encompassing lifestyle
by that point, Like, so, you know when I was
to give you, to give you a censic. So when
I was growing up, my parents worked for ammonia business,
so all of their co workers were moonies. I went
(18:04):
to a move, I went sorry, I went to church
on Sundays. I saw moonies there. Sometimes we had like
sleep away camps on the weekends. I saw moonies there.
So they take all of your support network that someone
would normally have. It all becomes part of that. We
all become subsumed by the cults. You don't have anything left.
So then when where do you if you want to
(18:26):
leave that environment, where do you go? You don't have
any friends, you probably lost contact with your family, probably
burn that bridge. Where do you go? They make it
almost impossible to leave because they intentionally burn all those
bridges for you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Would you say that the messages of guilt would come
in at that point. Is there ever a time where
the church might say, We've done all of this for you,
and now you know if you if you leave after
everything we've done and other, are you threatened with consequences
like what will happen to your soul if you leave?
(19:03):
And oh community in your family?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh yeah, so I get yeah. To give you some
context there we were. So we haven't talked too much
about the ideology, but sexual so called purity is a
big issue. Uh. And I was as a sex so
called second generation with I, in theory have a pure
blood lineage that no one else in this room would
would have.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And as a result, if I were to uh have
sex with someone beyond the person that the cults said
I could have sex with, then I would go to
a worse place in Hell than Hitler, the the absolute
worst place. They are all kinds of like they're really embellished,
the stories like the fish, the fish in the spirit
(19:48):
world will spit at you, and like people just really
horrible stuff. Anyway, in theory, that's where I'm going now,
I'll believe it when I see it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So, after this systematic recruitment and retainment of the first
generation members, the mass weddings happened. The second generation are born.
What is that like for at the period of time
where you were born into the movement, how soon is
it that the babies are subjected to the same methodologies
(20:19):
that the parents have been sublected to.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's a good question. It's from birth effectively. So we
were at eight days old. The photos of pretty much
all of us moody kids eight days old, we were
put we had to wear this kind of like white
silk robe, and our parents would wear white silk robes,
and they placed us in front of a photo of
(20:43):
Moon and his wife and some of their family members,
and they our parents said a very solemn prayer, effectively
pledging our lives to Moon for the rest of our lives.
From eight days old, our lives were given to them effectively,
and that indoctrination continued as far as I can remember.
(21:07):
So we every Sunday we had to wake up at
five am. This is this is part of like a
lot of cults to use this this tactic of like
of basically excuse my friends, but fucking with your sleeping
to to put you in a different, different state of mind.
So every week, for as long as I can remember
we I wo'd wake up at actually four forty five am.
(21:27):
Lights would go on, my dad would come up. We'd
have to put on our seats and then go downstairs.
H stand in front of a photo of Moon and
his wife. UH, do three full bows to them and
then repledge our lives to them, pledging our blood, sweat
and tears to help them build the so called Kingdom
of Heaven Earth. That was every week we went to
(21:51):
multiple UH sort of indoctrination camps throughout the summer's UH,
spring breaks, all that sort of stuff. I personally went
to indoctrination program in Korea at the age of thirteen.
I lived there for a year away from my family,
about one hundred kids. For a bit of context, about
one hundred kids and four grown ups looking after them.
(22:11):
It was like Lord of the Flies. It was awful.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And that's in the family home. And then another really
notable thing about the Unification Church is the weaponizing families
against one another by the separation that occurs between parents
and children. So where parents would be encouraged to go
and leave the children for missionary work to raise money
(22:38):
for the Unification Church, the children would be left.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, this is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this,
and we talked about this a lot on my show.
The church would basically to facilitate facilitate parents working for
Moon or one of his one of his front groups
full time. The church it coerced parents into giving their
(23:02):
kids up and putting them in orphanages. Effectively, at the
age of one hundred days, they're put into these group
care facilities where yeah, you'd have you know, toddlers up
to like six seven years old, all living together, and
there are many of these facilities around the world. We
kind of yeah, there's a lot of these facilities around
(23:25):
the world. I don't know how many of them are
still in existence today, but yeah, kids were kids were
orphan there, abandoned so their parents could go work for
this psychopath.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And there would be parents of other children who had
been left that would be called to these these houses
to parent other children that were not their children. So
it was very, very systematically done in order to keep
those those families separated.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And once you're older and you're able to start raising
money for the Unification Church, what did that look like
in terms of your contribution. What are some of the
things that you might see members of the church being
involved in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So yeah, there's a lot of financial control completely. So
first of all, they're they're you're if you're working for
a church business, you're not getting paid market rate. They're
they're underpaying you as massively as they can. Second of all, you're, uh,
you're required to give away ten percent of your pre
tax income to give that to the church. And that's
(24:27):
just the baseline. But then every month it's like, oh,
we need a donation for this thing that we're building,
or we need a donation for this tour that we're running.
Give us another thousand bucks. So there's a ton of
financial coercion and pressure that's applied. But that doesn't even
kind of what the like the real question that you're asking,
which is for people that aren't doing doing that, they
(24:48):
have these uh these fundraising teams, and these were both
adults and kids did this. Uh you basically you have
a van of maybe I don't know, seven or eight,
seven or eight people driving around the country in the
US and driving around the country or driving around Europe.
(25:08):
It happens here as well. Basically living in this van
uh and selling trinkets on the side of the road
or selling flowers in bars. It's called a mobile fundraising team.
But people do this six seven days a week, twelve
hour days. They sleep in the van, they eat fast food.
People have died doing this. It's not it's not without consequence,
(25:29):
and no, no one has paid any price for this.
And we talk about this on my show, and I
think either the two thousand and one or two thousand
and two and an eighteen year old girl was on
one of these fundraising runs. She entered a guy's house
and she was raped and murdered. No one has ever
suffered any consequence for this. And this all ties into
(25:50):
the coersion and the pressure because we were taught as
kids that the pathway to heaven was determined by the
number of dollars that we put into the organization. That's
the type of coercion that we're talking about. And I
know it sounds crazy and it is crazy, but that's
the environment that I grew up in. You know, whatever,
(26:10):
people accept what you're born into. That was the reality
for me and for many other people.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And I think it's really important to highlight that as
well for people who often ask, you know, how or
why would somebody join a cult by birth. Obviously absolutely
no choice in your part there, but even with your parents,
the systematic approaches that are used are any anybody can
(26:38):
be a victim of this type of exploitation, and I
think it's really important to point that out. And something
else that you said that was interesting in our chat
last week was about how it's impossible to change the
belief systems of an individual if they're not willing to
(26:58):
think past just accepting Moon and his words as gospel.
So you said that if somebody, if you were to
question with somebody, they would say, you just have to
take Moon's word for it. You just have to get
on board. And we see that a lot at the
moment with other groups popping up in America that are
(27:21):
not related to the Unification Church directly. Yeah, yeah, you
mentioned QAnon.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeahquanon's but I see a lot of similarities between QAnon
and the Unification Church. But I think I guess just
to really like dig into that, like until you make
it relatable as a almost like a warning sign of
like am I if you ever, if you're ever thinking
like am I in a cult? Then like one of
the main one of the main things to ask is
like how receptive. How receptive is the is the group
(27:49):
that you're into just looking at the evidence and just
trying to accept it face value, because that is a big,
a big part of the the indoctrination is like and
it's actually and I think you and On probably does
this as well, although I'm not an expert, but basically
it's like, if you like evidence, evidence of people speaking
(28:12):
against the group is taken as evidence is proof that
the group is working. Proof that proof that proof that
they're right, because why would people be criticizing something unless
unless it was doing something good? So they twisted around.
And so if you ever find your polite find yourself
in a place where that's sort of logic is applied,
you might be in a cult.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So with cults and coercion, we've we're talking a lot
about human trafficking and modern slavery, which which really does
come under the umbrella of cults, and people might not
think that those two things are directly related. When you
hear about somebody being trafficked and you hear about cults,
you might think, sorry, you might think, oh, how how
does Charles Manson or Jim Jones link to you know,
(28:56):
a child being sent to another country, but it's so
much more than that, as a lot of you in
this room probably know. And just to finish up really
our session today, where is the Unification Church right now?
And what would you say is most notable for us
in this room to be on the lookout for.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, that's the great question. So another one, I'm glad
you mentioned the term human trafficking. This this is a
human trafficking organization at the end of the day. It
meets all of those criteria and they hide behind this
whole of mirrors of all of these front groups so
that nothing can ever be pinned on any one, one
individual or one or one group.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You mentioned the mass weddings as well. The true agenda
behind the mass weddings is not part of the doctrine,
but actually to further the agenda world.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, and so actually, well just we kind of skipped
over that earlier. But the Moony has became famous in
the seventies and eighties for holding these mass weddings. They
say it's for theological reasons, but my personal belief, uh,
after speaking to a lot of people about this, is
it was actually massively premeditated way to circumvent labor laws
(30:10):
by getting people to certain places. So that sushi business
that I mentioned earlier, earlier in the US, all of
the workers who did that actually in this country too.
All of the workers in those places came from Japan.
And the reason they could stay in the Europe and
the US is because Moon married them to citizens of
European countries as well as the US. UH. And we're
(30:31):
talking thousands of people here. So yeah, that's that's a
good point. I know, I know where short on time,
I think, just to really like make it salient and
relevant to what's happening right now. So the Mooney the
Mooney Org still hosts regular events where they and they'll
(30:54):
they'll have names like the Family Federation for World Peace
or the Universal Peace Federation or the International Federation for
World Peace. He's sort of innocuous sounding names. And they
will invite heavy hitters to speak at these, and they
will pay them money to speak at them. When I
say heavy hitters, I mean heavy hitters. Donald Trump spoke
at one of these, Mike Pompeo, Mike Pence spoke at
one of these. These people are taking money, human trafficked money,
(31:18):
and so first of all, they're profiting from human trafficking.
And second of all, the Moonies are then using that
to their constituents and saying, hey, look, Trump spoke at
our event, he supports us, blah blah blah blah. So
it's used to cycle further the cycle of abuse. The
last thing I want to say there, I know you're
looking at your watch, is it's not just politicians jose Manuel,
but also the current chairman of Goldman Sachs has taken
(31:41):
money to speak at multiple Mooney events. He is guilty
of accepting human trafficking money and I think he should
be held accountable. And there are a lot of other
people as well. He's one of the most high profile.
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
More information on Elgin's amazing show. He covers all of
this meticulously with obviously himself and other survivors on his show.
Falling Out is available. Season three has just started to release.
Wherever you find your podcasts, I'm Casey, host of The
Cult Fault. You can come and chat to us. Please
come and chat to us at our stall on podcast row.
(32:14):
Thank you so much to Nancy and the team for
having us here today and I really hope that you
enjoy your weekend. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you, I'd do it.
Hello listeners and or welcome to you this special re
release series of the live talks that I have recorded
at crime Con UK. As we are so close to
the event in London now on the seventh and eighth
of June twenty twenty five, I thought it would be
a great opportunity to re upload the talks that I've
done previously at this event. For those of you that
(00:22):
have been tuning in for a while, these talks might
be familiar to you, but for those who are new
to the show, here is a taste of what you
can expect from crime Con UK across the weekend in London.
We will also be in Manchester in September and I
hope to be doing a talk at this event too.
This year, I am lucky enough to be on a
panel with Laura Richards no Less talking about coercive control
(00:46):
and cult. You can buy your tickets at crimecon dot
co dot uk and use the code cult cult at
the checkout for ten percent off your tickets. Patrons also
receive a fifteen percent discount code you can contact me
for directly. Crime Card UK, sponsored by True Crime, is
the UK's biggest true crime event, advocating for survivors, victims
(01:11):
and policy change in the UK. I really can't wait
for this weekend and I hope to see you there.
I hope you enjoy these re uploads and get in
touch let me know what you think and if you'll
be there for the weekend. Hello everyone, Welcome to this
live session, and thank you all for joining me here
today to talk about cults, coercion and corruption. My name
(01:34):
is Casey and I am the host of the Cult
Fat podcast, which is a long format, primarily interview based podcast.
The focuses on the true stories of individuals who are
survivors that have experienced cults, high demand groups, and more.
When the show started just over two years ago, it
(01:57):
was a researched and single home scripted show with me
looking at a different infamous cult each week, and all
I really knew of cults at that time was what
I had consumed from true crime documentaries and other podcasts.
And around episode four of the show, I was approached
(02:20):
by an author who asked if I would be interested
in reading her memoir about her experience in a place
called Zendic Farm. I don't know if anyone's heard of Zendick.
Really interested in commune so I recommend anybody interested in
the subject to go and read up about that. Helen
Zooman had penned this memoir called Mating in Captivity about
(02:41):
her time in a group that had a radical take
on sex and relationships. And after I read this memoir,
I realized that there was just so much more to
this subject than I'd ever really considered. And I asked
Helen if she would be willing to come on the
show and chat with me, and she said yes, and
so Helen was the first guest on my show and
after that the trajectory of the podcast just changed completely.
(03:05):
I have really had the privilege of being able to
interview almost two hundred survivors of cults and high demand
groups at this point, and many of you may not
realize that the tactics that are involved in cults and
coercion are in operation in everyday situations, and some of
(03:25):
you may have experienced some of these tactics personally. One
or one cults exist in domestic abusive relationships and also
exist in environments that you can hear about other panels
across the weekend, things that include, you know, street gangs,
and there's ex offenders and people who have been through
(03:45):
the prison system as well, which in itself has those
types of methodologies in place. So although colts may seem
like things that exist far away from us, and that
we as people could never be encouraged into a cult
or a high demand group, I want to share with
you all today why that simply isn't true. And to
(04:06):
help me with this, I have an amazing guest. Someone
who was born into a movement with no choice on
his participation, someone who has made it his mission to
highlight the coercion, abuse and corruption of this particular group.
Someone who has his own compelling platform and uses his
voice for change whilst giving others the chance to tell
(04:28):
their story too. So please welcome my special guest of
the Falling Out podcast, Elgin Straight. J Jesus. So, Elgin,
would you like to start by introducing yourself to the listeners?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Sure, thank you everyone for being here. I'm amazed to
see the turnout. It's quite encouraging. So yeah. So, as
Casey mentioned, my name is Elgin Straight. I was born
into a cult called the Unification Church. It's more were
commonly known as the Moonies. That's sort of the pop
culture terminology for it. I left that cult mentally when
(05:09):
I was around eighteen years old, but due to the
immense pressure that the cult placed upon us to marry
other people from the cult, I accepted an arranged marriage
to someone within the cult, and my marriage lasted for
about fifteen years, and when it was all over, I
(05:33):
sort of felt like for the first time, I could
like look back at my life for the first time
with no attachments to the cult. So I almost feel
like I left twice. And at that moment, that's when
I really tried to understand what happened to me and
what happened to my family. I read a lot of books,
(05:54):
I took a lot of courses, and it became quite
clear to me that very common trade amongst cult most
cults is that they employ a lot of guilt, secret guilt,
and shame UH. They use that tactic against their members,
and and that that creates an air of secrecy uh
within the within the cult. And it occurred to me
(06:17):
that throughout my life it would have been immense value
to me if I had just heard the stories of
other people who had left the cult, and so I
decided to to try to document that on my own show,
Falling Out so my show falling out as me effectively
interviewing other people who grew up in the same cult uh,
(06:37):
talking about their experiences within it, exposing the abuses within it,
UH and talking them through their journey of leaving it
and how they were rebuilding their life afterwards. I'm very
pleased to say that I've lost count of the number
of people who have left the cult as a direct
result of listening to the show. Sorry, it's quite emotional
for me to say that, but that is that is
(07:00):
the reality. I feel extremely privileged to have been able
to help people do that. So yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That, Thank you all, Jin And I mean, it's not
easy to ask you to give us a summary or
a brief history of the Unification Church. But for anybody
that isn't too familiar with the movement, is there a
quick kind of round up that you can give us.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, it's going to have to be a very short version.
So okay, It's called the Moonies because it was started
by a guy named Sun Young Moon Moon to place
this in space time, Moon was born in what is
now in North Korea in nineteen twenty at the age
of sixteen. He claims he had a revelation from God
(07:46):
telling him that it was his job to carry on
the unfulfilled mission of Jesus. So that's one of the
core tenants of the faith is that Jesus failed in
his mission and a second coming was required. Moon claimed
that he was the second coming. Obviously, they always claim
it's them when they have these revelations. It's never anyone else.
(08:08):
And to create this sort of new Garden of Eden
on Earth, humanity had to be so called grafted onto
a pure blood lineage that Moon could create through a
variety of methods I won't get into now, just because
we don't have enough time. Moon in the late fifties
(08:31):
into the early sixties, he was basically running a sex
cult in Korea at the time, and he went to
jail a few times for doing that, although that's not
the story that the cult tells you. And eventually, I
think his sordid past running that sex cult in Korea,
combined with his sense for the market opportunity for extremism
(08:55):
in the US, led him to flee his past in
Korea and moved to the US in the sixties. At
that point, the cult started aggressively recruiting cult members in
the us, including my parents. And we'll talk about the
coercion methodology later. But to call it a religion is
(09:17):
actually is actually, I think a complete misdirection, and it's
intentional because what the moonis really is is it's an enormous,
enormous constellation of front groups. I cannot over exaggerate the
enormity of this spider web. I saw a list created
in nineteen eighty and it had fourteen hundred front groups
(09:40):
listed on it. Those were just the ones that were
known then, and that was forty years ago. And all
of those front groups served to bring money and power
back to Moon and back to his family. And to
give you a couple examples there, the Moon family. Moon
started the newspaper of the Washington Times. He owns it
(10:04):
or his family, his family owns it, and that is
a font of right wing misinformation and disinformation. That's a whole, other,
whole other story. But Moon has basically grafted himself on
to the right wing in America and served as as
a useful mouthpiece for them in a variety of different ways.
It's a lot of influence there. Did anyone eat sushi
(10:26):
today or in the last few days? Any hands? Okay,
there's a ninety percent chance that that sushi came from
a Mooney run business, the Mooney's own company, a few
companies that that supply ninety percent of the sushi to
the US and Europe. I'm guilty as well of eating sushi,
(10:48):
even though I notice that they own a gun company
in America. So there, there and all of that. Yeah,
it serves to to bring money and power back to Moon.
And it's worth saying that all of that was built
on the backs of our parents, who were basically coerced
into working for Moon for free effectively or reduce reduced
(11:13):
rates working for one of these front organizations. My parents
worked for the Washington Times for pretty much their entire careers. Sorry,
let me pause there. And last thing to say is
Moon died in twenty twelve, but the cult lives on
in a variety of his family members. So it sort
(11:34):
of splintered into this like game of throne situations where
they're all trying to like fight for the remains of
the empire across a few different factions, including a couple
of his sons, one of his daughters, his wife, sorry widow,
but yeah, his widow. They're all fighting for it and
it's a complete disaster. But it bizarrely, it actually makes
(11:56):
a good a good environment for me to be speaking
out because they're too busy fighting each other to really
care about what I'm doing, what I'm doing now, and
if I make one of them look bad, the other
ones are like, yeah, don't they look like shit? And Okay, yeah,
that's how you want to roll fine, So anyway, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And one of the reasons that moon was able to
make this religious movement so big with thousands of followers worldwide,
was through a set of methodologies that were kind of
carefully honed over a number of years. So one of
(12:33):
the things we just discussed on our Zoom call last
week was the initial introduction of the first generation into
the church. So we kind of started at love bombingah
and the kind of first generation process of somebody being
brought into one of these groups. So I wondered, if
you could just talk.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Us through that process. Absolutely, can I just ask again,
show of hands love bombing? Anyone familiar with the term? Okay,
nearly everyone. That term was coined by the Moonies. They
created it in the sixties, in the seventies, and now
it's most commonly known as the most common context that
(13:10):
you all are probably familiar with it is in the
context of of dating and trying to win someone over.
But the Moonies, the Moonies started it, they invented it,
and it was specifically to coerce people to become full
time members. And the way it worked back then and
it's still happening today, is it usually starts with someone
(13:35):
from the opposite sex approaching you on on the street
or in some sort of public setting, and that's intentional.
Having to be someone from the opposite sex put injects
a little bit of sexual chemistry and sexual energy and
attraction into that very first inter interaction that you have
with someone. So an attractive person walks up to you
and says, hey, we're hosting this dinner. Are you interested
in world peace? Are are you interested in making the
(13:55):
world a better place? Okay, if you are, you should
come to this cultural event that we're sting at our
at our house. Sounds very innocuous. No one mentions anything
about the cult, uh, And it's almost intentionally something that
will be impossible to disagree with. Do you want to
end hunger? Yeah? Okay, of course, I'll like, like, no
one's gonna kind of disagree with this. So inevitably, some
(14:16):
people end up coming to these to an event and
it's it's like a potlock dinner or something like that.
Some like a barbecue type of thing. But when you're there,
you don't know it, but you're the mark. You're the target.
When you get there, you are the target for love bombing,
and everyone there knows knows who's a member and who's
(14:38):
not a member. If you're not a member. You walk
into the room and everyone showers you with attention.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
You walk in and it might be kind of subtle,
but all of a sudden, you're the most interesting person
in the room. Everyone cares about what you say. Everyone's
everyone's interested. They'll laugh at your jokes, and they'll make
you feel loved. You get you get the sort love
and affection that a rock star or a celebrity would get.
It's not normal to feel that, but it creates a
(15:06):
little dopamine hit, creates a little dopamine hit, and when
you leave, you miss it. You want that, You want
that dopamine hit back. So then when they say, hey,
actually we're doing we're doing a longer event. It's actually
like a weekend weekend away. We're doing you know, we're
doing this. Uh, we're doing this retreat. Would you like
to come? You might say, okay, and you go there.
(15:28):
The love bombing continues once you're isolated, though they have
more control. They can control what you eat, they can
control when you sleep, they can control nearly all aspects
of your life. And at that point they start to
whittle down your defenses whilst maintaining the love bombing pressure,
and over time, in that environment, when your defenses are low,
(15:50):
they also intentionally isolate you from the people that you
love and the people that know about you and care
about you, and they make it increasingly difficult for you
to go and talk to them, even just to call
them on the phone. They do this little by little,
but over time they're wearing you down, and eventually it
might be like, go to barbecue one length, then they
invite you somewhere for the weekend. Then they invite you
somewhere for seven days. Then maybe it's two weeks. They
(16:11):
know those two weeks. Finally they mentioned, oh, by the way,
this is about Moon and he's the Messiah, and would
you like to join. But by that point it's been
this long and gradual process not even that long, but
it's been intentionally gradual. No one's upfront about what's happening
to begin with. So that's one example of one of
(16:31):
the coercion tactics.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And something I've found quite familiar across a lot of
the interviews I've done is that after that love bombing
comes a lot of the toxic positivity. So maybe messages
of you know, well, maybe you should come to as
many activities as Sally's coming to because she's committing this
much time to the church, and wouldn't it be great
(16:53):
if you you know, So it's kind of starting to
add that element of you know, we'd be nice to
you if you give us more.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah. Yeah, they start demanding from you. And then and
if you start adding any negativity or questioning, they use
that against you. They say it's because you're you're you're
not you're not strong enough, you're two weak that in
this case, in the case the moon is they might
tell you that it's Satan invading you, the spirit world
is affecting you if you have any sort of negativity
or questioning.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So if if that's how the first generation of the
Unification Church members were introduced to the church, why is
it after the love bombing and the toxic positivity that
people stay that they don't leave, which leads to, of
course the second generation and survivors such as yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, a lot of it has to do with the
fact that it's it's it's it's an all encompassing lifestyle
by that point, Like, so, you know when I was
to give you, to give you a censic. So when
I was growing up, my parents worked for ammonia business,
so all of their co workers were moonies. I went
(18:04):
to a move, I went sorry, I went to church
on Sundays. I saw moonies there. Sometimes we had like
sleep away camps on the weekends. I saw moonies there.
So they take all of your support network that someone
would normally have. It all becomes part of that. We
all become subsumed by the cults. You don't have anything left.
So then when where do you if you want to
(18:26):
leave that environment, where do you go? You don't have
any friends, you probably lost contact with your family, probably
burn that bridge. Where do you go? They make it
almost impossible to leave because they intentionally burn all those
bridges for you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Would you say that the messages of guilt would come
in at that point. Is there ever a time where
the church might say, We've done all of this for you,
and now you know if you if you leave after
everything we've done and other, are you threatened with consequences
like what will happen to your soul if you leave?
(19:03):
And oh community in your family?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh yeah, so I get yeah. To give you some
context there we were. So we haven't talked too much
about the ideology, but sexual so called purity is a
big issue. Uh. And I was as a sex so
called second generation with I, in theory have a pure
blood lineage that no one else in this room would
would have.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And as a result, if I were to uh have
sex with someone beyond the person that the cults said
I could have sex with, then I would go to
a worse place in Hell than Hitler, the the absolute
worst place. They are all kinds of like they're really embellished,
the stories like the fish, the fish in the spirit
(19:48):
world will spit at you, and like people just really
horrible stuff. Anyway, in theory, that's where I'm going now,
I'll believe it when I see it.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
So, after this systematic recruitment and retainment of the first
generation members, the mass weddings happened. The second generation are born.
What is that like for at the period of time
where you were born into the movement, how soon is
it that the babies are subjected to the same methodologies
(20:19):
that the parents have been sublected to.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's a good question. It's from birth effectively. So we
were at eight days old. The photos of pretty much
all of us moody kids eight days old, we were
put we had to wear this kind of like white
silk robe, and our parents would wear white silk robes,
and they placed us in front of a photo of
(20:43):
Moon and his wife and some of their family members,
and they our parents said a very solemn prayer, effectively
pledging our lives to Moon for the rest of our lives.
From eight days old, our lives were given to them effectively,
and that indoctrination continued as far as I can remember.
(21:07):
So we every Sunday we had to wake up at
five am. This is this is part of like a
lot of cults to use this this tactic of like
of basically excuse my friends, but fucking with your sleeping
to to put you in a different, different state of mind.
So every week, for as long as I can remember
we I wo'd wake up at actually four forty five am.
(21:27):
Lights would go on, my dad would come up. We'd
have to put on our seats and then go downstairs.
H stand in front of a photo of Moon and
his wife. UH, do three full bows to them and
then repledge our lives to them, pledging our blood, sweat
and tears to help them build the so called Kingdom
of Heaven Earth. That was every week we went to
(21:51):
multiple UH sort of indoctrination camps throughout the summer's UH,
spring breaks, all that sort of stuff. I personally went
to indoctrination program in Korea at the age of thirteen.
I lived there for a year away from my family,
about one hundred kids. For a bit of context, about
one hundred kids and four grown ups looking after them.
(22:11):
It was like Lord of the Flies. It was awful.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And that's in the family home. And then another really
notable thing about the Unification Church is the weaponizing families
against one another by the separation that occurs between parents
and children. So where parents would be encouraged to go
and leave the children for missionary work to raise money
(22:38):
for the Unification Church, the children would be left.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, this is one of the most heartbreaking aspects of this,
and we talked about this a lot on my show.
The church would basically to facilitate facilitate parents working for
Moon or one of his one of his front groups
full time. The church it coerced parents into giving their
(23:02):
kids up and putting them in orphanages. Effectively, at the
age of one hundred days, they're put into these group
care facilities where yeah, you'd have you know, toddlers up
to like six seven years old, all living together, and
there are many of these facilities around the world. We
kind of yeah, there's a lot of these facilities around
(23:25):
the world. I don't know how many of them are
still in existence today, but yeah, kids were kids were
orphan there, abandoned so their parents could go work for
this psychopath.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And there would be parents of other children who had
been left that would be called to these these houses
to parent other children that were not their children. So
it was very, very systematically done in order to keep
those those families separated.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
And once you're older and you're able to start raising
money for the Unification Church, what did that look like
in terms of your contribution. What are some of the
things that you might see members of the church being
involved in Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So yeah, there's a lot of financial control completely. So
first of all, they're they're you're if you're working for
a church business, you're not getting paid market rate. They're
they're underpaying you as massively as they can. Second of all, you're, uh,
you're required to give away ten percent of your pre
tax income to give that to the church. And that's
(24:27):
just the baseline. But then every month it's like, oh,
we need a donation for this thing that we're building,
or we need a donation for this tour that we're running.
Give us another thousand bucks. So there's a ton of
financial coercion and pressure that's applied. But that doesn't even
kind of what the like the real question that you're asking,
which is for people that aren't doing doing that, they
(24:48):
have these uh these fundraising teams, and these were both
adults and kids did this. Uh you basically you have
a van of maybe I don't know, seven or eight,
seven or eight people driving around the country in the
US and driving around the country or driving around Europe.
(25:08):
It happens here as well. Basically living in this van
uh and selling trinkets on the side of the road
or selling flowers in bars. It's called a mobile fundraising team.
But people do this six seven days a week, twelve
hour days. They sleep in the van, they eat fast food.
People have died doing this. It's not it's not without consequence,
(25:29):
and no, no one has paid any price for this.
And we talk about this on my show, and I
think either the two thousand and one or two thousand
and two and an eighteen year old girl was on
one of these fundraising runs. She entered a guy's house
and she was raped and murdered. No one has ever
suffered any consequence for this. And this all ties into
(25:50):
the coersion and the pressure because we were taught as
kids that the pathway to heaven was determined by the
number of dollars that we put into the organization. That's
the type of coercion that we're talking about. And I
know it sounds crazy and it is crazy, but that's
the environment that I grew up in. You know, whatever,
(26:10):
people accept what you're born into. That was the reality
for me and for many other people.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And I think it's really important to highlight that as
well for people who often ask, you know, how or
why would somebody join a cult by birth. Obviously absolutely
no choice in your part there, but even with your parents,
the systematic approaches that are used are any anybody can
(26:38):
be a victim of this type of exploitation, and I
think it's really important to point that out. And something
else that you said that was interesting in our chat
last week was about how it's impossible to change the
belief systems of an individual if they're not willing to
(26:58):
think past just accepting Moon and his words as gospel.
So you said that if somebody, if you were to
question with somebody, they would say, you just have to
take Moon's word for it. You just have to get
on board. And we see that a lot at the
moment with other groups popping up in America that are
(27:21):
not related to the Unification Church directly. Yeah, yeah, you
mentioned QAnon.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeahquanon's but I see a lot of similarities between QAnon
and the Unification Church. But I think I guess just
to really like dig into that, like until you make
it relatable as a almost like a warning sign of
like am I if you ever, if you're ever thinking
like am I in a cult? Then like one of
the main one of the main things to ask is
like how receptive. How receptive is the is the group
(27:49):
that you're into just looking at the evidence and just
trying to accept it face value, because that is a big,
a big part of the the indoctrination is like and
it's actually and I think you and On probably does
this as well, although I'm not an expert, but basically
it's like, if you like evidence, evidence of people speaking
(28:12):
against the group is taken as evidence is proof that
the group is working. Proof that proof that proof that
they're right, because why would people be criticizing something unless
unless it was doing something good? So they twisted around.
And so if you ever find your polite find yourself
in a place where that's sort of logic is applied,
you might be in a cult.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So with cults and coercion, we've we're talking a lot
about human trafficking and modern slavery, which which really does
come under the umbrella of cults, and people might not
think that those two things are directly related. When you
hear about somebody being trafficked and you hear about cults,
you might think, sorry, you might think, oh, how how
does Charles Manson or Jim Jones link to you know,
(28:56):
a child being sent to another country, but it's so
much more than that, as a lot of you in
this room probably know. And just to finish up really
our session today, where is the Unification Church right now?
And what would you say is most notable for us
in this room to be on the lookout for.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, that's the great question. So another one, I'm glad
you mentioned the term human trafficking. This this is a
human trafficking organization at the end of the day. It
meets all of those criteria and they hide behind this
whole of mirrors of all of these front groups so
that nothing can ever be pinned on any one, one
individual or one or one group.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You mentioned the mass weddings as well. The true agenda
behind the mass weddings is not part of the doctrine,
but actually to further the agenda world.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, and so actually, well just we kind of skipped
over that earlier. But the Moony has became famous in
the seventies and eighties for holding these mass weddings. They
say it's for theological reasons, but my personal belief, uh,
after speaking to a lot of people about this, is
it was actually massively premeditated way to circumvent labor laws
(30:10):
by getting people to certain places. So that sushi business
that I mentioned earlier, earlier in the US, all of
the workers who did that actually in this country too.
All of the workers in those places came from Japan.
And the reason they could stay in the Europe and
the US is because Moon married them to citizens of
European countries as well as the US. UH. And we're
(30:31):
talking thousands of people here. So yeah, that's that's a
good point. I know, I know where short on time,
I think, just to really like make it salient and
relevant to what's happening right now. So the Mooney the
Mooney Org still hosts regular events where they and they'll
(30:54):
they'll have names like the Family Federation for World Peace
or the Universal Peace Federation or the International Federation for
World Peace. He's sort of innocuous sounding names. And they
will invite heavy hitters to speak at these, and they
will pay them money to speak at them. When I
say heavy hitters, I mean heavy hitters. Donald Trump spoke
at one of these, Mike Pompeo, Mike Pence spoke at
one of these. These people are taking money, human trafficked money,
(31:18):
and so first of all, they're profiting from human trafficking.
And second of all, the Moonies are then using that
to their constituents and saying, hey, look, Trump spoke at
our event, he supports us, blah blah blah blah. So
it's used to cycle further the cycle of abuse. The
last thing I want to say there, I know you're
looking at your watch, is it's not just politicians jose Manuel,
but also the current chairman of Goldman Sachs has taken
(31:41):
money to speak at multiple Mooney events. He is guilty
of accepting human trafficking money and I think he should
be held accountable. And there are a lot of other
people as well. He's one of the most high profile.
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
More information on Elgin's amazing show. He covers all of
this meticulously with obviously himself and other survivors on his show.
Falling Out is available. Season three has just started to release.
Wherever you find your podcasts, I'm Casey, host of The
Cult Fault. You can come and chat to us. Please
come and chat to us at our stall on podcast row.
(32:14):
Thank you so much to Nancy and the team for
having us here today and I really hope that you
enjoy your weekend. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Thank you, I'd do it.
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