April 26, 2025 • 60 mins
A silent threat, a critical weapons install, and one very important birthday cake. Writer Andre Bormanis helps us unpack Silent Enemy!
Each week, we explore and celebrate the lives that the Star Trek universe has forever changed. From former and future cast and crew members to celebrities, scientists, and astronauts whose personal and professional journeys have been affected by the franchise, we sit down and dive deep with a new friend, laughing and learning from their stories. Sit back, grab a drink, and join our hosts, Dominic Keating and Connor Trinneer, as we get geeky in The D-Con Chamber.
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Each week, we explore and celebrate the lives that the Star Trek universe has forever changed. From former and future cast and crew members to celebrities, scientists, and astronauts whose personal and professional journeys have been affected by the franchise, we sit down and dive deep with a new friend, laughing and learning from their stories. Sit back, grab a drink, and join our hosts, Dominic Keating and Connor Trinneer, as we get geeky in The D-Con Chamber.
Let's get social! -
📘 Facebook: The D-Con Chamber
📸 Instagram: @thedconchamber
🐦 Twitter: @thedconchamber
🌐 Website: https://thedconchamber.com
🌳 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/thedconchamber
Want more? Find us on Patreon for extended episodes + fun bonus content! https://patreon.com/thedconchamber?ut...
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-d-con-chamber--6181422/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our wonderful executive producer, mister Dave Tabb is in the
house today. God bless him. Thank you, Dave, thank you
very much.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey everyone, Connor here, We just want to take a
moment to thank you so very much for tuning in
and being a part of the Decon Chamber family. Your
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:33):
And don't forget to check out are awesome mergh because
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Speaker 1 (00:45):
Every little bit helps, I promise you, and we're really
very very grateful for all of you who make this
show possible. So thanks for being there, and please enjoy
this episode of the Decon Chamber. This show has been done.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've come.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's the.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Count.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, trekkies and trekkers. Welcome
back to another watch party episode of the dcon Chamber.
I am Connor Trenier and as always I am with
my co host. Always with my co host and best
friend in English speaking countries, Dominic keating. It's a fantastic
(01:36):
opportunity that we have and we're going to try to
have more of these, which is to have the writer
of the episode we are doing Silent Enemy. I keep
wanting to call it Silent Running a whole other Silent Enemy,
directed by Rick Colby and written by our dear friend
(01:56):
Andre Bormanis, and we've got him with us today.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Hello, I've also good to see you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you Andre for joining us. You know, it's always
a joy to see you. And we had a wonderful,
wonderful chat with you earlier in our season. And how
you doing.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Doing pretty well. It's good to see you guys, of course,
and you know, just working on the usual stuff. My
book about the Orville came out in October. Very happy
about that. I've been pitching a couple of projects and
you know, looking for the next gig like everybody. It's
been a strange time in the business on many levels. Obviously,
(02:39):
when COVID struck, everything went into lockdown for far longer
than we expected at the time, and in fact it
took us i think three years to complete the ten
episodes of season three of The Orville. We had just
started shooting a couple of months before lockdown, and then
it just you know, it took us nine or ten
months to get back into even limited production, right, and
(03:02):
then we had the strike, and you know, and everything
has just been kind of you know, streaming models seems
to not be kind of working the way that people
that expected. Certainly not not the way that it was
going during the lockdown when everybody was at home watching
television under peloton. Yeah exactly. So, Yeah, it's a strange time.
(03:23):
And but I think it's I think we're you know,
we're coming back in terms of production in Los Angeles.
It's still a shadow of what it was, but there
are some hopeful signs I think on the horizon. And
I know that Seth is planning another season of The Oreville.
It's a question of of when, not if. So that's
(03:46):
that's good news. So we'll have to see and otherwise, Yeah,
just keeping my head above water. Yeah, keep on make
it a wave when I can.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, and before we get started, I want to throw
a shout out to our executive producer, Dave tab Thank you,
Dave for anything to you. You help keep the lights
on and crafty going and you keep us around.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So yeah, with that said, I mean, I you know,
and I know I'm the one that bangs this drum,
but we can't rely on that forever. You people out
there who love this show, and we really need you
to step up and support us, you know, with your pocketbook,
and that's important. I can't we can't stress it enough.
I mean, it's a bit like NPR. It's going to
(04:35):
go away unless the supporters you know, you know, reach
into their pockets and help pay for it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And you have an old Gilapi that you want to
get rid of, donate.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It to the Deacon Chamber.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, you have an old pod maybe.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean, seriously, we need your help. So for those
of you that have been watching this, you know, and
loving it for free, please a little bit will make
her go a long way. Patreon dot com thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And we have our Decon Chamber merch happening right now.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
T shirts are the hats available, They're not at the moment,
so they're they're rather expensive. This is one that's my
fiance Sarah made. We were trying to make them cheaply
and she she literally was ironing these on here. But
it was there was quite a lot of shouting coming
from the back room a matter of nights. With that said,
(05:33):
let's talk about this wonderful episode that you wrote, Andre.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
This was your first one, right for Enterprise. Yeah, I
wrote wrote or co wrote six or seven episodes of
Voyager while I was working on that show as the
science consultant. So that's really when I, you know, kind
of became at first a freelance writer. Obviously, I was
very close to the franchise and had been working there
for a number of years at least in this sort
(05:58):
of part time consulting capacity. And then when we when
we started to gear up for Enterprise, Brandon Bragan and
and Rick Berman said hey, you know, it's about time
we put you on staff. Are you interested? And I
said absolutely, So became a writer and eventually a producer
on Enterprise and Silent Enemy was my first script for
(06:22):
the show season one.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And I would start with just the title of it.
It's sort of it's a unique idea to have a
encounter with, at least for our show, someone who's silent
and who's interested in communicating with you, and they are
a threat.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Right, That was my first note when I watched the episode.
Who comes up with the titles?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Yes, yeah, that's a good question. I don't recall at
this point who came up with that title. We might
have had a might have had a different title, and
then discovered I think that, oh that was a Deep
Space nine episode, you know, which was always a problem
on Enterprise. It's like there had been four count of
four Star Trek series right prior to prior Enterprise, the original,
(07:12):
Next Gen Deep Space nine and Voyager. Yeah, three hundred
and some odd episodes if I remember correctly, And it
was always a challenge to make sure we weren't repeating
ourselves on some level. And one of the great things
about Enterprise, of course, was because it was a prequel
and took place eighty five or one hundred years before
the era of Kirk and Spock. Our characters from Captain
(07:37):
Archer all on through you guys, they were novices. They
were not the season space professionals we saw on the
other shows, right for Captain Kirk or Captain Janeway. Beaming
down to to a new, unexplored planet was just another
day at the office. For Archer and his crew. It
was like, oh my god, this is a new planet
(08:00):
doing here. Look at that look at that, you know,
I mean, it was always very h It was kind
of a fresh perspective, almost as if people from the
present day were suddenly given a starship and allowed to
explore the galaxy. You know, in the in the other shows,
they were they were bigger than life, you know, they were.
(08:20):
They were heroic in a way that you know, is
is not realistic in the sense that expect anything. Yeah,
anything that you know, you can pick just about any
episode from the original, the Next Gen or the other shows,
and most sane people going through those kinds of events
(08:43):
would spend at least a few weeks in a hospital
recovering emotionally, physically. And they explored some of that in
Next Gen obviously when when you know, when when the
card was you know, was orgified for example, Yeah, he
experienced from amendous trauma, and we explored that trauma what
(09:03):
had never happened in the original series, right, or really
wouldn't It would have been forgotten by the next episode, right,
But on Enterprise, we wanted to make sure that these
are real people who, you know, who are not larger
than life heroes. They are obviously very smart, very professional,
well prepared, but everything is new to them. And that's
(09:25):
one of the things that I that I wanted to
explore personally in Enterprise, is encountering an alien species for
the first time unless you have this vast sort of
database of experience, which you know, by the time we
get to the original series and the next gen and
so forth, well, they have human humanities, encountered thousands of
(09:47):
alien species, and we have a good sense of what
you know, humanoid life is is likely to be. And
then even the more exotic life forms. You know, there
are patterns and we understand and what a first first
contact encounter is all about. Our crew didn't really know
that because this was all new, and so the silent
(10:08):
enemy aliens, I thought it would be interesting to have
no idea and not even really be able to speculate
about what their motivations might be. And I think that
that's sort of the more realistic approach to first contact
with alien life. If we ever get a signal, you know,
(10:29):
like a radio signal from what appears to be another civilization,
we're not going to be able to make heads or
tails of that. I don't think, at least not initially.
We'll be baffled, will we even recognize alien life when
we first discover it. That was a kind of a
question that I think was interesting in and of itself
(10:50):
and great fodder for an enterprise story because again, yeah,
we knew the Vulcans, we knew a couple of other
alien species when we go out into the into the
deep space, you know, Milky Way Galaxy for the first
time with the NXO one. But man, it was all
it was all brand new, and to be able to
see Star Trek characters reacting to things from that perspective,
(11:15):
I think is what really set the show apart.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, and I think that there's something really interesting in
this particular episode about the fact that there's no response
from the ship that is come into our orbit, as
it were, which takes things very very dangerous, right immediately, Yeah,
we send, we send our message of what we're there for,
(11:41):
and they send nothing back and actually shoot at us. Yeah,
and then to and that's the that's the macro element,
and then the micro element is figuring out who Read
is and the fact that it's his birth. Yes, yes,
it's such an interest.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, well that was that was the kind of obvious
parallel is that you know, Read is is kind of
a mystery to the rest of the crew, and we
have this larger mystery of this alien species who seems
to be interested in us, makes a little rendezvous with
our ship. We signal it and they don't respond, and well,
(12:21):
why are you here if you're not you know what's
going on? And uh, and so the Read story, I
think was was was a nice way to kind of
echo that you know, and to see from the perspective
of a very human crew. If you don't know somebody,
how do you try to find out something about them?
(12:42):
Right without without giving away that you're setting up a
little surprise party for them, You stalk them on social media,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, both of those storylines are also asking the same thing,
we want to know about you, yes, and we're not
it from the ship and we're not from read.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Right exactly. And that was that was.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I think you mean to marry those two sort of storylines.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
That was that was a conscious decision. I mean, it
was something that you know, again, this this is something
that I'm sure came to us in the room as
we were developing the story. The initial idea was, you know,
a first contact story about an alien species that doesn't
seem to want to make first contact. That we find
(13:35):
utterly baffling, and it's frustrating, right, that was kind of
the basic idea. But then oh, it's you know, they're
going to be a threat. And again we don't know
why they they they attack us initially, We don't know
what their motivations are at all. We just know, Okay,
now they're curious and they're hostile and aggressive and and
(13:56):
the model frankly loose lee was Did you ever see
the Steven Spielberg movie Duel? It was his first, I
think his first TV big TV director was.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
It was a TV movie.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's a TV movie with Dennis Weaver, and Spielberg had
directed a couple of episodes of Night Gallery, the Rod
Sterling Show that was kind of a follow up to
The Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Is a story. It's a Stephen King story, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
It might have been I don't remember, actually, but yeah
that was this this guy on a little cross country
trip and his beat up old you know, Chevy or
whatever he was driving. I remember, but this trucker he
apparently kind of cuts off this trucker at the beginning,
and so yeah, sorry, sorry dude, but you know, you're
going a little slow, and then this truck keeps coming
(14:48):
after him and stalking him. But we'd never see the
driver of the truck, right, which which makes it that
much more scary. You know, who is this guy? Is
he a genuine psychopath? Is he really going to try
to kill me? Or is he just playing with me?
You know? So that was kind of the model for
the behavior of these aliens. And then with regard to
(15:12):
the read story, well, you know, something we talked about
in the room before, and I think I about to
mention this to you guys when we talked previously.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Is.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
You know, we were blessed with a great cast, you
guys all fantastic led by you know, the amazing Scott Bacula.
And of course when you're doing TV show, you want
the actors to be actively involved in the development of
their characters, and they're reading the scripts and they're having
their responses. And I don't know how much you guys
talked to Brandon or Rick when when we were doing
(15:42):
those early episodes and later on, you know it is
the show developed, but clearly you guys had takes on
your characters and you found ways to inhabit them and
brought your own talents and history. However, you work as
an actor to those roles. And one of the things
that you know, we had noticed watching the dailies from
(16:04):
the first few episodes of the show was that, And
I remember Brandon pointing this out. He's like, you know,
there's something really kind of kind of cool about Dominic
because when you see him sitting there at his station
and he's you know, following orders and telling telling the
captain what's going on, tactical perspective and all of that,
(16:25):
there is something like you look at him and you wonder,
there's something else going on with this guy. There's something
kind of behind the eyes that maybe we're not quite
privy to. It was just the way Dominic And I
don't know if you were conscious of that at all, Dominic,
that you were sort of projecting that, but that's that's
how Brandon read it. And when he pointed it out
to me, I'm like, oh, yeah, I think you're right.
There is something kind of you know, mysterious, like a
(16:47):
like like Bond a little bit, you know, And watching of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
These first several episodes read seems too about two episodes
prior to this to get a little like shorts with people.
And you know, in the previous episode we talked about
this dom that you know, there's you know, it's like
(17:11):
you're having a bad day, and uh, the exploration of
who he is was so timely for this episode.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, well that was the thing, and you know he
yeah guarded. I think is maybe on a personal level
little guarded, and and that that makes sense as a
tactical officer, as somebody who's involved in you know, defensive
systems and intelligence gathering and that sort of stuff. Yeah,
you would expect a certain guardedness and understanding that there
(17:46):
is a need to keep secrets and you cannot divulge
tactical information, uh, to just anybody unless you're Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And it's also telling. It's also telling. I think that
like if to say that you could not walk up
to read and say, we know your birthday is coming.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
What what's your we want to make what would you
like we're.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Doing something for you on your day?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And yeah, and but at that point nobody seems to
be able to be like, oh, well I'll ask that.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah, well I think that you know, in my mind,
it's like, well, could we expect him to give an
honest answer to that question, he'd probably just say, oh,
you know, I like chocolate cake.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well that's what he says in that scene with with Hoshi.
She tries to sort of you know, mind that from him. Yes, yeactly, whatever,
fine and.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah and ho.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
She was ho. She was like the perfect person to
do this because she's the communications officer. She's kind of
the opposite of of of of read right she uh,
she's the one who wants to make contact all the
time and wants to understand and know and you know,
and to put her with this guy who's who's who's
very guarded to the point of almost feeling a little
(19:08):
stand off your shit times that I thought was that
was a nice chemistry.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You know, I would Rick Colby, bless him. He's not
here anymore. I would not have picked him in a
lineup for someone to be the person to tell that story,
if you know what I mean. Sure, but he did
very well. He did it very well. You know, he
(19:36):
saw the reality of the diamondism and yeah, between our
real threat and it's a threat versus trying to wrap
someone else into our fold.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yes, yeah, And I wish I'd been able to spend
more time down on the set were shooting that and
you know the other episodes I wrote, you know, to
be to be involved and to be able to field
any questions you might have had. And yet, you know,
we were so slammed. I mean, it was virtually impossible
(20:15):
to get away for any period of time because I
mean people don't necessarily remember that back in the day
and when we were doing Enterprise first and second seasons,
we did twenty six episodes a season in less than
a year, and that's unheard of anymore. Nobody does that,
(20:35):
and that used to be the standard. You know, it's
not like we were anything special, but you know, we
had eight nine writers on staff or something like that,
just keeping ahead of the schedule and you know, and
generating these stories and writing those scripts, you know, was
a was a more than full time job. And that
first season was was pretty rough. And I remember spending
(20:57):
a lot of weekends, you know, at Brandan's house helping
him do rewrites, and other writers were off doing their
own stuff on the on the weekends, and you know,
this was a you know, for a while, they're almost
a twenty four to seven kind of a thing, until
we really kind of found our stride and you know,
in a big part of the challenge of that show,
of course, was how do we distinguish this from the
(21:18):
other other series. And of course we started with the
characters and you know, being these kind of newcomers to
you know, strange new worlds. But then the other problem,
of course was, you know, we had thirty years of
history of Star Trek, you know that we had to
kind of keep in the backs of our minds and
(21:40):
remind ourselves occasionally, you know, more than more times than
I can remember. We'd be in the room and somebody
would start pitching a story and oh wow, oh that
could be so cool, that could be so cool, and
then somebody, you know, Mike Sussman or somebody was out.
Didn't they do that on Next Gen?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
It was a season three or see and we'd look
and you know, look it up. How fuck did we
that was? That was the Next Gen episode? Yeah, that
was a really cool idea. It's so good that they did.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So we just had like Susman on Okay, and he he.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Had mentioned that he really got to know his couch
very very well in his office and he spent you know,
many a night that first season as you were just
saying that, you know, you're under the gun.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, it's uh, and you know it was. It was
a fantastic experience. You know, at the time, you feel
kind of overwhelmed, and you know, there's an old expression
warriors are made on the battlefield. I'd written scripts, and
I'd written under deadline, you know, for Voyager, and I'd
written specscripts and et cetera, et cetera. Uh, But to
(22:48):
actually be in the thick of it as as a
writer and producer and I have to, you know, to
be one of the people responsible for making sure that
that's scripts are ready when they're you know, when they're
scheduled to start shooting. And we knew at the beginning
of the season, before you guys ever came to set,
when every episode for that season was scheduled to shoot.
(23:10):
We had a big calendar on three of the four
walls in Brandon's office showed us the start dates of
every episode for that season. At least that was the plan, right,
and we knew that if we didn't have the script
ready then that was going to cost the studio money,
and god forbid, if we had to shut down. Even
back then, that was you know, it costing the studio
(23:31):
one hundred thousand dollars a day or something to shut
down production, and we never did. So that was also
just sort of part of the feeling of, you know,
the responsibility of being involved at that level in a
television show. And you know, you feel that responsibility too,
of course, because you have to be there at five
(23:51):
in the morning or whenever you guys typically started your day,
and you've got to know your know your lines and
hit your marks and all of that, and you know
it it's hard to do for for that it's a job,
and it's you know, it's it's pretty intense, and you
don't get a lot of breaks. Yeah, don't get a
(24:12):
lot of breaks until you're even the hiatus. We had
a three week hiatus the writing staff between season one
and season two. I was like barely time to catch
your breath, you know. By the Gay.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Costa Rica, did you get involved in casting, because I
I remember they came to me to ask about who
was going to play the family right.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
No, you know, I really was never involved in casting.
I would go to production meetings for the episodes that
I've written. I would be involved in a you know,
and some other things with respect to props and special
effects and things like that, casting and being on set.
That was pretty much the exclusive domain of Rick and
(24:52):
Brandon and then maybe later Chris Black and Fred Decker might
have had some involvement in that in the first season,
since he'd been a director as well as a writer.
So but yeah, you know, this was, yeah, I was.
I was focused almost exclusively on writing scripts. And in fact,
if I remember correctly, we did I think gate episodes
(25:13):
ninety eight or ninety nine episodes of Enterprise, and I
think I was involved in the story breaks for ninety
six of them, no kidding. And you know, the story
breaks typically it's four or five six hours a day,
four or five days, and ideally that's you'll have the
outline pretty much done by then. It varies a bit,
(25:35):
and you know, there can be time on the weekends,
and you know, but even when I was writing scripts,
I was still typically involved in the in the story breaks.
So I would just put aside the script for a
few hours and then when the story break, and then
go back to my office and work a few more
hours on the script. You know, So yeah, that was
(25:58):
It didn't leave time for much else.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
One of the scenes I love and this, I love
this when when storytellers do these things. That scene where
they're speaking to Reid's parents, and you know, they're clearly
sort of a post war about what they're doing, they're
tight lift and it says so much about Reid's character
(26:25):
without talking about it. Yes, you know, I mean, it's
it's it really sort of cements. Oh okay, well no,
all right, this is all making sense.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yeah, you know, when I'm from that I remember writing
that scene and I remember, you know, I got to
get this right, and I had to imagine, you know,
I mean, I've known British people over the years and
then to Britain, and you know, I didn't want to
get too stereotypical about any of that, and I kind
of used I guess to some extent, my own parents
(26:57):
has a bit of a model because they were from
Europe and very kind of you know, you know, not
as not as demonstrative as people at least I don't know,
different generation, you know, my parents were brun in the
early nineteen thirties and different time, you know, and but
of course this is the future, so they didn't you know,
these were not people who necessarily grew up during World
(27:19):
War Two, right, but still, I just you know, I
kind of made your mother. I made your mother a
little harsh and in fact.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Was either Oh I mean, guys, sign it was just
brilliant him. He didn't break He just the one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
They ate what he ate what was put in front
of him.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I love the fact that they were they were I
wanted to do you call it malaya, I mean just amazing.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Yeah. When I wrote that first line about for when
when Hosh she asks them, you know what what is
you know, what is Malcolm like to eat? And he
ate what he was fed?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I think the fox, Yeah, he was put in front
of him.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But when I when Chris read that, you know, Chris
Black gave me something said, yeah, that's a little harsh.
I think maybe that's It's like, well, I didn't think
it was that harsh, And that's probably what my mother
would have said to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So anyway that he'd broken rank with with not being
a navel man, that was large enough.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
And I don't I wish I could claim that that
was my idea. I don't know that it was, but
that might have been Chris uh Brannon or somebody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
But they were both great. Jane Carr was terrific.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Yeah, and again you know it. Yeah, when I when
I think back, I never got to meet them, never
got to say hi and thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So they probably came in for one day and just
did that.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Wilcolmson, he played my sister. I ended up working on
she actually, I mean quite a career. She was on
Sons of Anarchy and then she became Leaf Striver's wife
in that fixer show he did. Oh, I forget the
name of it. What was that show called? Remember con
just recently in the last five.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's a guys.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, she had a wonderful part playing his sort of
struggling wife.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well that's great, you know I didn't realize that. Look
her up.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, she dish and she she nailed that British act
and beautifully.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, she's a good actress, very smart. Uh what else
it is? So, I tell you what one thing that
jumped out at me was that suddenly it comes to
like that that color's got a girlfriend in Pensacola. It's
already been pregnant with a lady in a holographic boat.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It was like.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Pensacola.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
He didn't call the girlfriend and showed that information.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
No, well, you know subspace radio in those days. Yeah,
that was that day. Yeah, that whole uh trip gets pregnant.
That was a early brand and Braga concept. He wanted to, uh,
he wanted to do that, and he wanted to and
again another example of how weird are these aliens that
(30:21):
we're encountering, right, And you know, I pushed back a
little bit about when she gives you that woman in
the the alien woman in that weird ship gives you
a you know, a glass of liquid and she says,
this is the closest thing we could we could make
or find to water. And I'm like I told Brandon,
it's like water is. It's everywhere. It's universe. You know,
that's one of the most common molecules in the entire universe.
(30:43):
It's not just on Earth. He said, you want to
make them just sound really weird and different. And of
course that you know, and that could have been just
a communication issue with her and whatever. But yeah, that
was a fun episode.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
How about just about the nose in that we've gone
out with not enough firepower, Yeah, and we have to
go back.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
None of our systems aren't all online and yeah, left
loading dock is sort of you know, half cocked.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
R Yeah, and again that was again part of the
you know, a little wet behind the ears aspect of
you know, humanity in the mid twenty twenty in the
mid twenty second century going out there, and the Balkans
warned us, you know, you guys, I don't think you're
really prepared for what you're going to encounter at all.
And we were a little cocky and over confident, I guess,
(31:33):
the humans, and and so we wanted to kind of
play again, play that up a bit. And and yet
the great thing in you know, Silent Enemy, of course,
is that Archer resists the idea of going back to
Earth and tells, you know, Read and and Trip and
the team, we can do this. We're going to do
(31:55):
this ourselves. We're not We're not back and we're not
going to turn tail and run every time we we
counter difficulties. Yes we we we you know, we're not
entirely ready. That's that's when the pressure, you know, the
pressure is on, and that's when the tough get going right.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
So it's almost like it's a battlefield ethos, isn't it
that like you know, we don't have everything. Well, the
hell with it, we're going.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
But I love that we're given the chance to prep
before we go back to Jupiter, and that lovely speech
with me and Connor Trip, when Trip gives us sort
of JFK speech about you know, don't ask what you
can do for you.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
And yeah, and I thought that was very And I
love the fact I think if I'm writing saying, this
is the episode where you guys, Brannon maybe or the
writers in general saw the relationship between Trip and Malcolm,
and we have that scene in.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
The hold of the face cannon hold hold and we're
head to ahead, you know nothing bang right, yeah, yeah,
And I think that was the derivation for our Shuttle
Pod one episode later that season, that right at the end.
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, but they saw absolutely yeh, yeah, for sure. No. Again,
that's another great example of how, you know, the actors
informed the roles and then the development of future stories,
right so clearly that you know, if that had not
worked the way that it did and as well as
it did, yeah, who knows if we would have even
done the you know, the Shuttle Pod one story, it
(33:33):
might not have It might not have seemed like a
good idea. I didn't know what you guys were doing
and what you were capable of doing, and how well
you guys played off of each other, right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It was that we were running out of money.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Maybe would.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I had forgotten. I didn't
realize it was this episode. But there's been a longgoing
story about an episode, and it's this one. And it's
the scene I'm about to talk about where we're about
to put the torpedoes in to shoot and read and
(34:12):
trip are moving around. It was late, late at night,
it was.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Three in the morning, mate, I write the line down.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It was so hard, and you know the story is
gone that that. You know, you tore off the script
and put it on your forehead.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You gotta post it note But you didn't. But you didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
What you did was because I looked at the scene
and I was like, that's what it is. You had taken.
I think you'd gone to jan and pulled out the
line which I couldn't get and stuck it right because
I remember about the I'm looking up, I'm looking right
there because I times where there's a line that comes
(34:54):
you just can't I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Late line walls. If we repolarize the gravity plating to
observe the recoil, that we can shut the energy to
structural integrity.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Take twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
It was three of them morning and that's a that's
a classic Andre Bormanis.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
That just gave me a hive?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Sorry, if we repolarized.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sut the energy.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And I remember looking at the scene and going like,
you know, he's looking a lot, wasn't that. Yeah, he's
looking up, he's looking down, he's looking up, and that's
because dominic A torn a piece off. Yeah, and was like,
just read it from there.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Read it.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
You should have seen the line before we we edited it.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
It was all that.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
I got it. I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I was all.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I tried to be very conscious of those kinds of
you know, I try to be conscious of the fact
that you guys, you know, are not physicists, not electrical engineers.
I need to make sure that this stuff is as
short and sweet as it can possibly be. And I
remember when I was working on Deep Space nine, I
(36:07):
had a script that Michael Pillar had written and it
was a It was they were on a planet and
none of their equipment was working. Something went wrong with
their phasers and their tricorders and this and that nothing
was working, and so Cisco, you know, was saying, what
the hell is going on? And A Brian's there, you know,
(36:30):
the engineer the transporter tech and whatever, and he's like,
I had to give him some kind of an explanation.
And the only thing I could think of that would
be realistic is if the planet had an exceptionally strong
magnetic field and it flipped a lot, it fluctuated, because
that can penetrate the shielding of electronic equipment and cause
(36:52):
circuits to fritz and so forth. Yeah, that was the
closest thing I could kind of come up with. Oh
there's a rapidly fluctuating him. Blah lah lah da, you
know something. Whatever. And I send my notes to Michael Pillar,
and you know, faxed them in those days, believe it
or not. This is the last second season at d
(37:13):
S nine or something back in the early nineties. And
I got back my notes from Michael Pillar with some
his own little notes and corrections. And when he came
to that line, he'd written in big block letters, mng E.
I'm like, the hell's nge me. So I called Jerry Taylor,
who was writing, you know, one of our writers and
(37:34):
supervising producers at the time. She was basically the one
I hired me to be the science consultant. Loved Jerry.
She was a great, great writer, really good person. And
I said, Jerry, I just, I just I got these
notes back from from Michael and in this one line
he kept writing nnge and CAFs And she said, oh,
that means not good enough. Oh oh, And I looked
(37:58):
at that and I realized, oh, I understand. Colomini, right,
who played O'Brien, had to say this like seven times
in the episode. What a ridiculous mouthful, you know, And
I'm giving this poor guy.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Did you end up with in the end?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It boiled out to.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
A duo neetic field. Now that was a portmanteau, if
you will. It was something I made up based in
the original Star Trek. There was a famous episode where
an intelligent computer is given control of the shift and
M five, and they had talked about on the Enterprise
(38:38):
they had duotronic circuits and M five was a multitronic unit,
so duotronic I think they did. They thought electro geene,
Rob Murray must have thought that electronics sounded too primitive. Yeah, electronics,
that's that's very sixties. That's no, we need something better.
So he came up with whatever writer duotronic. So I thought, well,
(38:58):
the equivalent of a duotronic circuit be a doingetic field
today and column you know, could remember that, Yeah, And
I remembered at the at the first rap party I
went to for DS nine, I was there by myself,
and you know, people were milling about. It was very
fun and and a nice place. And I saw Terry
(39:21):
Farrell standing by herself, you know, who played Dax. Tall,
beautiful woman, and I'd never met her before, and I
kind of walked over and introduced myself. She wasn't with anybody,
Miss Carol Andre Bormantis. Oh yeah, what what is it
that you do on the show? And I said, I'm
I'm you know, I'm the science consultant. I have to apologize,
(39:43):
and I'm the one who puts all that technobabble into
your dialogue. She looked at me like she literally grabbed
me by the lapels of my jacket, almost lifted me
off of my feet, and said, you have me hey,
how And then she started laughing. I said, no, no,
it's mine. But she told me something very and it's like,
(40:03):
I wish somebody had told me this, like the day
that I started. She said, you know, if I'm in
a scene by myself and I'm just talking to the computer,
pretty much as much of that stuff in my dialogue
as you want, because you know, I could read it
off a screen or you know, que card or something. Right,
I'll remember it, you know, well enough by the time
we do that scene. But if I'm in a scene
(40:25):
with other actors and I have to think about what's
happening in this scene, what's the emotional dynamic, and I
got to hit my marks and I got to respond
to these other actors, then I would appreciate it if
you could, just, like, you know, keep that technobabble stuff
to a bare minimal because because in those situations it's
really hard for me to remember words that mean nothing
(40:46):
to me.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Right, well, did you say, you say, what are you
going to do for me?
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Had I been thinking, I would have said, sure, Terry,
I could do that. Sure, what's the word to you?
What's the word?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
And then she went someone else, She married.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Adam Memoy. I don't know if they're still together.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Did you carry on as the science consultant for the
entirety of our show?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Well, yeah, because we basically didn't hire anybody new. And
you know, one of the edicts from Brandon and Rick
was We're going to have a lot less technobabble in
this show. This is not going to be like you know,
Voyager and Next Gen and DS nine, where that was
kind of the stock in trade of how these people
talk to each other, right, we want this to be
more down to earth, more like people talking today. So
(41:34):
we did a lot less of it, so it wasn't
as much of a you know, it didn't take up
nearly as much of my time as it did when
we were doing both Voyager and DS nine simultaneously. Didn't
necessarily take up all that much time back when we
were doing those two shows compared to writing you know,
the actual scripts. But you know, I've done it long
(41:55):
enough that it was very manageable to me to do that,
you know, on top of everything else. I doubt I
spent more than an hour or two a week. Maybe
if there was something that involved a little bit of research,
you know, if I wanted to make oh that's you know,
doctor Flox has got to do something that's medically appropriate. Well,
(42:15):
I knew doctors I could call to help me with that,
you know, or other people who had a particular expertise.
But you know, it wasn't you know, that was a
small part of what I needed to do. And so yeah,
it really wasn't really wasn't that big a component of
the show compared to the others.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Big and a doctor Flocks, I mean, he completely makes
any kind of hippo oath he said, yeah, with Hoshi
that I'm a dust mites. Oh, there are just ship.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Well, I'll tell you you know, I wanted to make
Flocks a veterinarian. I told Brandon, you know, we should
reveal at some point during you know, the first season
that back on the Nobula, you know, his home world,
he's actually not allowed to practice another denogamals because he's
basically a veterinarian. And Brandon thought that was money, but he's.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Like, hey, we got him half price.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Yeah exactly, I got him cheap. That's why he's a lone. Right.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You came up with this whole brumolin idea because Remin
you are you ag Yeah, no, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I'm not allergic to it, but I started taking Lippitur.
You know, I have some coronary artary disease, and so
I take that very seriously. And uh, you know, after
my brother John had his heart attack at the age
of forty two while I was forty five, forty six
or something, and I, you know, went to get a
(43:46):
calcium scan in my heart found out I had you know,
high calcium score and probably plaquese. So went to the
cardiologist and they put me on Lippitur. And one of
the things weird thing about lippatur, which is a statin
drug and it's been around for many years. It's great
at keeping your cholesterol levels low and reducing the accumulation
(44:07):
of plaque in your arteries. But it has some weird
interaction with an enzyme called bromolin, which is common in pineapple, pineapple,
and grapefruit. And so they tell you, you know, avoid
pineapple and grapefruit. You don't have to. You know, it's
not going to kill you if you eat a piece
of pineapple, but you know, you don't want to eat
pineapple every day if you're taking this drug, or grapefruit.
(44:30):
And I loved grapefruit because weirdly enough, growing up in Phoenix, Arizona.
My parents. The house that they bought was on what
used to be the property of a big grapefruit tree orchard.
You know, they grew a lot of citrus in Phoenix
in the early twentieth century, twenties, thirties, forties. There were
citrus everywhere. And then they started to city started to
(44:51):
grow and they started to build, you know, subdivisions in
these old citrus groves. And so we had like a
dozen grapefruit trees in our property. You know, they left
most of the trees and then just build the houses.
And you know, we have fresh grapefruit every every fall,
and it was delicious. I loved it, and then I
had to stop eating it. And every time I went home,
(45:12):
my dad would give me a bag of grapefruit today
back to LA and I have to just sort of
give it away because you know, I would eat half
of one. You know, what are the consequences of the well,
the consequence that's a very good question. And I asked
my cardiologist doctor Wu. He said, well, he said, it
basically potentiates the effect of the lipatour whatever the active
(45:34):
ingredients are. He said, It's like you're taking a higher
dose of lippati and we don't want you to, you know,
inadvertently take a higher dose. Amazing, it's a weird thing.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
And he and I said they even found that out.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
I mean, and I said that, Hey, well, well he said,
I said, so if I were to take a lower
dose and have a grapefruit every day with that, you know,
be he said, He said, you know, if this was
some third world country where you know, access to lipoitours
is difficult or limited, maybe that would be a good idea.
(46:08):
But he said, the problem is it's uncontrollable. You don't
know how your body's going to react, and it wouldn't
necessarily be the same day to day. So it's like,
I know, you're taking however many milligrams a day in
the pill form, and that's what you're getting. If you
were to take that and grapefruit every day, who knows
what your dose is going to be. It would vary
and it would and it might get dangerously high. So
(46:29):
that's why we discourage it.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I didn't know because I'm not and I hadn't. Don't
doctor saying anything.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Really, yeah, we'll tell straighten that quack out when you
see doctor blocks or something.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
He said above her clinic. I mean, I mean, how
we can get No.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
I'm sure. Again, it's like depending on the dosage, if
you're on a lower do I'm on the maximum dose actually,
so for me, I guess they say, yeah, be careful,
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
But it's a nice touch and the fact that it
becomes his birthday cake and seeing at the end, I
have to say, how do you know? Yeah, and it's charming.
And I remember my somewhat consummeate experience in commercial acting
(47:19):
having to get the products exactly in the air, take up,
you know, and then see my eye through the I remember, oh, yes,
that's a consume its spray on gels.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Hilarious, that's so funny. But yeah, that was you know,
I guess, you know, thinking back on it, I haven't
watched the episode in a long time, but you know,
as we talk about it, it's like, yeah, I thought
that really worked well, you know, I mean it it
had a lot of interesting All of the kinds of
things that we wanted to do in enterprise we did
(47:55):
in that episode. And one of the things that I
think we didn't do the we could have done better
as the series went on, and I think we started
to do it certainly by the fourth season, is serving
the idea of we're seeing sort of the building blocks
of what would become the United Federation of Planets. You know,
(48:16):
how does the Federation come into existence, Where does the
prime directive come from? And so on and so forth.
I think the fans wanted to see more of that.
We were kind of focused, especially in that first season,
on characters and making it clear that this is this
is a show where it's people like normal, everyday people
(48:40):
in the present day world, having this extraordinary opportunity and
responding the way that your eye might respond if we
were suddenly given this opportunity to fly out into the
galaxy and we'd be it would be both wonder and
terror yea, even in the most mundane circumstances. Yeah, And
of course the terror side of it was something that
(49:02):
rarely has ever h factored into the other shows. You know,
Kirk was never scared. You know, the card about.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Who she is that she's almost not paying attention to
how serious this is because she's so focused to figure
out what to do.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yeah, which is which is? Which is a kind of
coping mechanism, and you could see it that way.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Anyway, So yeah, I love that, uh this the fritzy scene,
whether the aliens leave.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
The uh the little spy cam.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, yeah, And I thought that was very freaky and yeah, ystopian,
and they were they use it against us when they
come back, and it's it's like a sort of Internet
meme now, isn't it. You know?
Speaker 4 (49:51):
And that was our first all c g I alien
on Enterprise and.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
They were freaky looking things.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
Dan Curry Curry designed those and those aliens. Yeah it was.
And Dan of course is you know, legendary VFX uh,
you know, and and and and a great storyteller.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (50:10):
He thinks through his designs, you know, in the context
of stories, and came up with some of the Klingon
weaponry and next gen you know, and all based on
that sort of you know, who are the Klingons, what
is their history, what is their marshal tradition and all
of this stuff, you know. And and yeah, Dan, Dan
Dan Dan is a gem.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
He was.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
He was instrumental and uh, you know, and so many
things in the in the visual uh, you know, the
look and feel of the show, especially with regard to
you know, the CGI and those CGI aliens. They were creepy,
and you know, we we obviously you know, it's it's
better now, But I think our budget only allowed us
(50:53):
to see those aliens for a total of thirty thirty
five seconds.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Maybe, well that's sort of the great thing that you
get out of you know, really good horror films do
not allow you to see the exactly very much. And yeah,
you saw them cross that hallway, oh no, But then
then it became a mystery of like where are the
oh no people? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
Yeah, the anticipation of seeing them again and what they
might do to us is what's scary, not the actual
you know, in your face stuff where you see them,
you know, in their in their horrible alien glory. Right,
That's that's that's fun for a second or two, right, right.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah, it was a good storytelling. I thought it was
a fantastic episode. It's it's really wonderful to come back
to some of these. And you know, we were talking
to Mike Susman, what was the episode.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
Dumb uh well, civilizationation, you know, and and uh, you
know he he definitely was like, yeah, I mean it's
not my favorite of these, but I you know, I
thought that we were coming out we came out of
the gate really hot.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Storytelling. And you know, there are episodes that are probably
a little you know, underwater at times, but most of
the ones that we had out in the first season,
at least to this point, m pretty great. Yeah, you know,
to your and we did such an interesting thing with
(52:27):
with taking a real mysterious danger, marrying that to the
mystery of not a dangerous thing present, which is read
and finding that balance, which is that's just damn good storytelling.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
In my mind, it was really well. And I think
that the show is really you know, it's it's aged well.
I don't like to use that term. I can't think
of a better one. But you know, people of course
in the Star Trek universe who had grown up on
the original, the next gen and so forth, you know,
they had certain expectations and we tried to do something
(53:02):
pretty different, which was a risk, and so there were
some mixed feelings and mixed reviews. But I think as
time has gone on, people have returned to the show
and reappraised it. And you know, when I watched the
yor Cee scenes today, I mean it's like, I think
the storytelling generally really good. The scene work is good.
(53:22):
You guys are great, and and and just the production design,
the production values and the CGI. And you know, that
was the first show we did where we didn't build
a physical model of a ship. We had a physical
model of the Voyager, but we put that back in
its in its in its shipping crate. I think sometime
in the fourth or fifth season, is right, because at
(53:45):
that point we could afford to do a CGI version
of the ship on a weekly basis for at least
a few scenes. So of course we used stock footage
of the model, you know, for establishing shots and you
know we're just flying at warp or whatever, you know,
use use that sort of footage over and over. But
the new stuff for there was you know, for specific episodes.
(54:06):
I think by season five all of the new shots
of the ship were CGI. We you know, we physically
scanned the model and built it on the computer and
put in all of the details and and of course
we could do things with that CGI model which you
would never do to that beautiful, you know, five foot
fiberglass model that Rob Logatto built that you know, across
(54:29):
one hundred and thousand some odd dollars. You know, we
could blow holes in it. We could blow it apart,
you know, and then put it right back together, because
it's all in the computer, you know. So it was
it was a real sea change, and it was fun
to watch that evolution, you know, as a writer and
a producer in television from you know, all of the
(54:50):
stuff that we did on Next Gen and the first
few seasons of Voyager and DS nine. Their models. You know,
Rick Sternbach used to build little plastic models. You know,
he'd take a big razor and put some other things,
and you know, it was an alien ship and if
you shoot it from you know, five ft away, it
can look kind of cool. You know, you add some
lights and you do this and that. All of those
were physical models until you know, the late nineties and
(55:14):
now it's all you never had a physical model again,
so all on the computer and uh and on or
build SETH McFarland insisted on building a physical model of
the Orville because he he felt that it still brought
a level of realism to the look of of those shots,
(55:36):
the hero shots. You know, when you're getting in close
and you're steering it on a you know, on a
on a on a crane and doing the you know,
the camera work, you know, actually on a set, and
I think he was probably right. We can use that
beyond I think the first few weeks of filming, because
(55:58):
we also had a digital model of the Orville. We
may have used it a few other times. I don't
remember now, but but yeah, that's it's a dying art now.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
I don't know if there's anybody out there really who
builds models anymore, unless they're sort of, you know, really
advanced hobbyists who love that kind of stuff. You know
that movie Moon that David Bowie's son directed, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (56:21):
I forget his name, Sam Rockroll's film?
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Wasn't it Zobe Bowie I'm Losing You Joey's he goes
By Joey now right, Joey Bowie Joey Bowie, doesn't I
think so? Because it was Zouie.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
That's what it was, though, Zowie is that was Zoe Bowie,
Sawie Bowie, He.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Goes by joe Joe Joey something like that, And that.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Was Sam rockroll movie. Wasn't it Moon?
Speaker 4 (56:42):
It was?
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Wasn't it You Have We Lost You?
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Oh? I'm I'm there. My my ear pods went out?
Was that Doug Jones. Is that the director shop Moon?
Speaker 1 (56:53):
I uh.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Gosh, it was maybe fifteen twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, it was a sound of film, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
Yeah, yes, well yeah, but that that was done with models.
They built a little lunar landscape and they built models
for the rovers and whatever. So but that's that's almost
never done anymore.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
So well, thank you Andre.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Oh it's been my pleasure. This is so much fun. Guys,
it's so great again when.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
We come to another another bull Minest episode. If you don't,
we'll come back to you.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
I would love to, and I will put the word
out and uh and tell all of my friends and
fans to uh support you guys, because obviously I think
this is great what you're doing, the decon chambers a
lot of fun and deserves a wider audience. All right,
but thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
And what a great episode.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Yeah, thanks, Yeah, it was so fun revisiting it with you, guys.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
I want to say it was really really good. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Now I'm going to have to watch it again.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
It's pretty good and it's beautiful Britain. And I have
to say, and as you said beginning of this whole chat,
as actors, we We really found our characters in this episode,
I think a lot. I mean, there's a great scene
between Archer and and Trip in the engineering together, and
there's there's some really good stuff and some of the
(58:18):
acting is so nuanced and lovely and it's all just
hearing the eyes.
Speaker 4 (58:23):
It felt that way to us. It absolutely felt their
way to and I think the shot that very very
well in that regard a lot of real close ups. Yes, yeah, absolutely,
absolutely see.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
I mean I said, I mean, that's the scene with
ho She in the mess or I was cracking laughing
when it flickers across Malcolm's face as he's busy to
her deadline, and it's like, God, she's asking me to
have sex with her hot plates. And then then Hosy's
(58:57):
reaction is.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
Oh no, yeah, that's great. Hello, such fond memories. It's great.
It's great really with you guys.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Thank you Proul, big loving
Our wonderful executive producer, mister Dave Tabb is in the
house today. God bless him. Thank you, Dave, thank you
very much.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey everyone, Connor here, We just want to take a
moment to thank you so very much for tuning in
and being a part of the Decon Chamber family. Your
support keeps us going and we couldn't do this without you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
And if you love what we do and want to
help us even more, please consider joining us on Patreon.
You'll get exclusive perks, behind the scenes content, and even
opportunities to chat with us directly.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
And don't forget to check out are awesome mergh because
who doesn't want to wrap their favorite podcast in style? Baby?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Every little bit helps, I promise you, and we're really
very very grateful for all of you who make this
show possible. So thanks for being there, and please enjoy
this episode of the Decon Chamber. This show has been done.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We've come.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's the.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Count.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, trekkies and trekkers. Welcome
back to another watch party episode of the dcon Chamber.
I am Connor Trenier and as always I am with
my co host. Always with my co host and best
friend in English speaking countries, Dominic keating. It's a fantastic
(01:36):
opportunity that we have and we're going to try to
have more of these, which is to have the writer
of the episode we are doing Silent Enemy. I keep
wanting to call it Silent Running a whole other Silent Enemy,
directed by Rick Colby and written by our dear friend
(01:56):
Andre Bormanis, and we've got him with us today.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Hello, I've also good to see you guys.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Thank you Andre for joining us. You know, it's always
a joy to see you. And we had a wonderful,
wonderful chat with you earlier in our season. And how
you doing.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Doing pretty well. It's good to see you guys, of course,
and you know, just working on the usual stuff. My
book about the Orville came out in October. Very happy
about that. I've been pitching a couple of projects and
you know, looking for the next gig like everybody. It's
been a strange time in the business on many levels. Obviously,
(02:39):
when COVID struck, everything went into lockdown for far longer
than we expected at the time, and in fact it
took us i think three years to complete the ten
episodes of season three of The Orville. We had just
started shooting a couple of months before lockdown, and then
it just you know, it took us nine or ten
months to get back into even limited production, right, and
(03:02):
then we had the strike, and you know, and everything
has just been kind of you know, streaming models seems
to not be kind of working the way that people
that expected. Certainly not not the way that it was
going during the lockdown when everybody was at home watching
television under peloton. Yeah exactly. So, Yeah, it's a strange time.
(03:23):
And but I think it's I think we're you know,
we're coming back in terms of production in Los Angeles.
It's still a shadow of what it was, but there
are some hopeful signs I think on the horizon. And
I know that Seth is planning another season of The Oreville.
It's a question of of when, not if. So that's
(03:46):
that's good news. So we'll have to see and otherwise, Yeah,
just keeping my head above water. Yeah, keep on make
it a wave when I can.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, and before we get started, I want to throw
a shout out to our executive producer, Dave tab Thank you,
Dave for anything to you. You help keep the lights
on and crafty going and you keep us around.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So yeah, with that said, I mean, I you know,
and I know I'm the one that bangs this drum,
but we can't rely on that forever. You people out
there who love this show, and we really need you
to step up and support us, you know, with your pocketbook,
and that's important. I can't we can't stress it enough.
I mean, it's a bit like NPR. It's going to
(04:35):
go away unless the supporters you know, you know, reach
into their pockets and help pay for it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
And you have an old Gilapi that you want to
get rid of, donate.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It to the Deacon Chamber.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, you have an old pod maybe.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean, seriously, we need your help. So for those
of you that have been watching this, you know, and
loving it for free, please a little bit will make
her go a long way. Patreon dot com thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And we have our Decon Chamber merch happening right now.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
T shirts are the hats available, They're not at the moment,
so they're they're rather expensive. This is one that's my
fiance Sarah made. We were trying to make them cheaply
and she she literally was ironing these on here. But
it was there was quite a lot of shouting coming
from the back room a matter of nights. With that said,
(05:33):
let's talk about this wonderful episode that you wrote, Andre.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
This was your first one, right for Enterprise. Yeah, I
wrote wrote or co wrote six or seven episodes of
Voyager while I was working on that show as the
science consultant. So that's really when I, you know, kind
of became at first a freelance writer. Obviously, I was
very close to the franchise and had been working there
for a number of years at least in this sort
(05:58):
of part time consulting capacity. And then when we when
we started to gear up for Enterprise, Brandon Bragan and
and Rick Berman said hey, you know, it's about time
we put you on staff. Are you interested? And I
said absolutely, So became a writer and eventually a producer
on Enterprise and Silent Enemy was my first script for
(06:22):
the show season one.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
And I would start with just the title of it.
It's sort of it's a unique idea to have a
encounter with, at least for our show, someone who's silent
and who's interested in communicating with you, and they are
a threat.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Right, That was my first note when I watched the episode.
Who comes up with the titles?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Yes, yeah, that's a good question. I don't recall at
this point who came up with that title. We might
have had a might have had a different title, and
then discovered I think that, oh that was a Deep
Space nine episode, you know, which was always a problem
on Enterprise. It's like there had been four count of
four Star Trek series right prior to prior Enterprise, the original,
(07:12):
Next Gen Deep Space nine and Voyager. Yeah, three hundred
and some odd episodes if I remember correctly, And it
was always a challenge to make sure we weren't repeating
ourselves on some level. And one of the great things
about Enterprise, of course, was because it was a prequel
and took place eighty five or one hundred years before
the era of Kirk and Spock. Our characters from Captain
(07:37):
Archer all on through you guys, they were novices. They
were not the season space professionals we saw on the
other shows, right for Captain Kirk or Captain Janeway. Beaming
down to to a new, unexplored planet was just another
day at the office. For Archer and his crew. It
was like, oh my god, this is a new planet
(08:00):
doing here. Look at that look at that, you know,
I mean, it was always very h It was kind
of a fresh perspective, almost as if people from the
present day were suddenly given a starship and allowed to
explore the galaxy. You know, in the in the other shows,
they were they were bigger than life, you know, they were.
(08:20):
They were heroic in a way that you know, is
is not realistic in the sense that expect anything. Yeah,
anything that you know, you can pick just about any
episode from the original, the Next Gen or the other shows,
and most sane people going through those kinds of events
(08:43):
would spend at least a few weeks in a hospital
recovering emotionally, physically. And they explored some of that in
Next Gen obviously when when you know, when when the
card was you know, was orgified for example, Yeah, he
experienced from amendous trauma, and we explored that trauma what
(09:03):
had never happened in the original series, right, or really
wouldn't It would have been forgotten by the next episode, right,
But on Enterprise, we wanted to make sure that these
are real people who, you know, who are not larger
than life heroes. They are obviously very smart, very professional,
well prepared, but everything is new to them. And that's
(09:25):
one of the things that I that I wanted to
explore personally in Enterprise, is encountering an alien species for
the first time unless you have this vast sort of
database of experience, which you know, by the time we
get to the original series and the next gen and
so forth, well, they have human humanities, encountered thousands of
(09:47):
alien species, and we have a good sense of what
you know, humanoid life is is likely to be. And
then even the more exotic life forms. You know, there
are patterns and we understand and what a first first
contact encounter is all about. Our crew didn't really know
that because this was all new, and so the silent
(10:08):
enemy aliens, I thought it would be interesting to have
no idea and not even really be able to speculate
about what their motivations might be. And I think that
that's sort of the more realistic approach to first contact
with alien life. If we ever get a signal, you know,
(10:29):
like a radio signal from what appears to be another civilization,
we're not going to be able to make heads or
tails of that. I don't think, at least not initially.
We'll be baffled, will we even recognize alien life when
we first discover it. That was a kind of a
question that I think was interesting in and of itself
(10:50):
and great fodder for an enterprise story because again, yeah,
we knew the Vulcans, we knew a couple of other
alien species when we go out into the into the
deep space, you know, Milky Way Galaxy for the first
time with the NXO one. But man, it was all
it was all brand new, and to be able to
see Star Trek characters reacting to things from that perspective,
(11:15):
I think is what really set the show apart.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, and I think that there's something really interesting in
this particular episode about the fact that there's no response
from the ship that is come into our orbit, as
it were, which takes things very very dangerous, right immediately, Yeah,
we send, we send our message of what we're there for,
(11:41):
and they send nothing back and actually shoot at us. Yeah,
and then to and that's the that's the macro element,
and then the micro element is figuring out who Read
is and the fact that it's his birth. Yes, yes,
it's such an interest.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah, well that was that was the kind of obvious
parallel is that you know, Read is is kind of
a mystery to the rest of the crew, and we
have this larger mystery of this alien species who seems
to be interested in us, makes a little rendezvous with
our ship. We signal it and they don't respond, and well,
(12:21):
why are you here if you're not you know what's
going on? And uh, and so the Read story, I
think was was was a nice way to kind of
echo that you know, and to see from the perspective
of a very human crew. If you don't know somebody,
how do you try to find out something about them?
(12:42):
Right without without giving away that you're setting up a
little surprise party for them, You stalk them on social media,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, both of those storylines are also asking the same thing,
we want to know about you, yes, and we're not
it from the ship and we're not from read.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Right exactly. And that was that was.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I think you mean to marry those two sort of storylines.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
That was that was a conscious decision. I mean, it
was something that you know, again, this this is something
that I'm sure came to us in the room as
we were developing the story. The initial idea was, you know,
a first contact story about an alien species that doesn't
seem to want to make first contact. That we find
(13:35):
utterly baffling, and it's frustrating, right, that was kind of
the basic idea. But then oh, it's you know, they're
going to be a threat. And again we don't know
why they they they attack us initially, We don't know
what their motivations are at all. We just know, Okay,
now they're curious and they're hostile and aggressive and and
(13:56):
the model frankly loose lee was Did you ever see
the Steven Spielberg movie Duel? It was his first, I
think his first TV big TV director was.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
It was a TV movie.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
It's a TV movie with Dennis Weaver, and Spielberg had
directed a couple of episodes of Night Gallery, the Rod
Sterling Show that was kind of a follow up to
The Twilight Zone.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Is a story. It's a Stephen King story, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
It might have been I don't remember, actually, but yeah
that was this this guy on a little cross country
trip and his beat up old you know, Chevy or
whatever he was driving. I remember, but this trucker he
apparently kind of cuts off this trucker at the beginning,
and so yeah, sorry, sorry dude, but you know, you're
going a little slow, and then this truck keeps coming
(14:48):
after him and stalking him. But we'd never see the
driver of the truck, right, which which makes it that
much more scary. You know, who is this guy? Is
he a genuine psychopath? Is he really going to try
to kill me? Or is he just playing with me?
You know? So that was kind of the model for
the behavior of these aliens. And then with regard to
(15:12):
the read story, well, you know, something we talked about
in the room before, and I think I about to
mention this to you guys when we talked previously.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Is.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
You know, we were blessed with a great cast, you
guys all fantastic led by you know, the amazing Scott Bacula.
And of course when you're doing TV show, you want
the actors to be actively involved in the development of
their characters, and they're reading the scripts and they're having
their responses. And I don't know how much you guys
talked to Brandon or Rick when when we were doing
(15:42):
those early episodes and later on, you know it is
the show developed, but clearly you guys had takes on
your characters and you found ways to inhabit them and
brought your own talents and history. However, you work as
an actor to those roles. And one of the things
that you know, we had noticed watching the dailies from
(16:04):
the first few episodes of the show was that, And
I remember Brandon pointing this out. He's like, you know,
there's something really kind of kind of cool about Dominic
because when you see him sitting there at his station
and he's you know, following orders and telling telling the
captain what's going on, tactical perspective and all of that,
(16:25):
there is something like you look at him and you wonder,
there's something else going on with this guy. There's something
kind of behind the eyes that maybe we're not quite
privy to. It was just the way Dominic And I
don't know if you were conscious of that at all, Dominic,
that you were sort of projecting that, but that's that's
how Brandon read it. And when he pointed it out
to me, I'm like, oh, yeah, I think you're right.
There is something kind of you know, mysterious, like a
(16:47):
like like Bond a little bit, you know, And watching of.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
These first several episodes read seems too about two episodes
prior to this to get a little like shorts with people.
And you know, in the previous episode we talked about
this dom that you know, there's you know, it's like
(17:11):
you're having a bad day, and uh, the exploration of
who he is was so timely for this episode.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, well that was the thing, and you know he
yeah guarded. I think is maybe on a personal level
little guarded, and and that that makes sense as a
tactical officer, as somebody who's involved in you know, defensive
systems and intelligence gathering and that sort of stuff. Yeah,
you would expect a certain guardedness and understanding that there
(17:46):
is a need to keep secrets and you cannot divulge
tactical information, uh, to just anybody unless you're Secretary of Defense.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
And it's also telling. It's also telling. I think that
like if to say that you could not walk up
to read and say, we know your birthday is coming.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
What what's your we want to make what would you
like we're.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Doing something for you on your day?
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And yeah, and but at that point nobody seems to
be able to be like, oh, well I'll ask that.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Yeah, well I think that you know, in my mind,
it's like, well, could we expect him to give an
honest answer to that question, he'd probably just say, oh,
you know, I like chocolate cake.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well that's what he says in that scene with with Hoshi.
She tries to sort of you know, mind that from him. Yes, yeactly, whatever,
fine and.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah and ho.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
She was ho. She was like the perfect person to
do this because she's the communications officer. She's kind of
the opposite of of of of read right she uh,
she's the one who wants to make contact all the
time and wants to understand and know and you know,
and to put her with this guy who's who's who's
very guarded to the point of almost feeling a little
(19:08):
stand off your shit times that I thought was that
was a nice chemistry.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You know, I would Rick Colby, bless him. He's not
here anymore. I would not have picked him in a
lineup for someone to be the person to tell that story,
if you know what I mean. Sure, but he did
very well. He did it very well. You know, he
(19:36):
saw the reality of the diamondism and yeah, between our
real threat and it's a threat versus trying to wrap
someone else into our fold.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Yes, yeah, And I wish I'd been able to spend
more time down on the set were shooting that and
you know the other episodes I wrote, you know, to
be to be involved and to be able to field
any questions you might have had. And yet, you know,
we were so slammed. I mean, it was virtually impossible
(20:15):
to get away for any period of time because I
mean people don't necessarily remember that back in the day
and when we were doing Enterprise first and second seasons,
we did twenty six episodes a season in less than
a year, and that's unheard of anymore. Nobody does that,
(20:35):
and that used to be the standard. You know, it's
not like we were anything special, but you know, we
had eight nine writers on staff or something like that,
just keeping ahead of the schedule and you know, and
generating these stories and writing those scripts, you know, was
a was a more than full time job. And that
first season was was pretty rough. And I remember spending
(20:57):
a lot of weekends, you know, at Brandan's house helping
him do rewrites, and other writers were off doing their
own stuff on the on the weekends, and you know,
this was a you know, for a while, they're almost
a twenty four to seven kind of a thing, until
we really kind of found our stride and you know,
in a big part of the challenge of that show,
of course, was how do we distinguish this from the
(21:18):
other other series. And of course we started with the
characters and you know, being these kind of newcomers to
you know, strange new worlds. But then the other problem,
of course was, you know, we had thirty years of
history of Star Trek, you know that we had to
kind of keep in the backs of our minds and
(21:40):
remind ourselves occasionally, you know, more than more times than
I can remember. We'd be in the room and somebody
would start pitching a story and oh wow, oh that
could be so cool, that could be so cool, and
then somebody, you know, Mike Sussman or somebody was out.
Didn't they do that on Next Gen?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
It was a season three or see and we'd look
and you know, look it up. How fuck did we
that was? That was the Next Gen episode? Yeah, that
was a really cool idea. It's so good that they did.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So we just had like Susman on Okay, and he he.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Had mentioned that he really got to know his couch
very very well in his office and he spent you know,
many a night that first season as you were just
saying that, you know, you're under the gun.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, it's uh, and you know it was. It was
a fantastic experience. You know, at the time, you feel
kind of overwhelmed, and you know, there's an old expression
warriors are made on the battlefield. I'd written scripts, and
I'd written under deadline, you know, for Voyager, and I'd
written specscripts and et cetera, et cetera. Uh, But to
(22:48):
actually be in the thick of it as as a
writer and producer and I have to, you know, to
be one of the people responsible for making sure that
that's scripts are ready when they're you know, when they're
scheduled to start shooting. And we knew at the beginning
of the season, before you guys ever came to set,
when every episode for that season was scheduled to shoot.
(23:10):
We had a big calendar on three of the four
walls in Brandon's office showed us the start dates of
every episode for that season. At least that was the plan, right,
and we knew that if we didn't have the script
ready then that was going to cost the studio money,
and god forbid, if we had to shut down. Even
back then, that was you know, it costing the studio
(23:31):
one hundred thousand dollars a day or something to shut
down production, and we never did. So that was also
just sort of part of the feeling of, you know,
the responsibility of being involved at that level in a
television show. And you know, you feel that responsibility too,
of course, because you have to be there at five
(23:51):
in the morning or whenever you guys typically started your day,
and you've got to know your know your lines and
hit your marks and all of that, and you know
it it's hard to do for for that it's a job,
and it's you know, it's it's pretty intense, and you
don't get a lot of breaks. Yeah, don't get a
(24:12):
lot of breaks until you're even the hiatus. We had
a three week hiatus the writing staff between season one
and season two. I was like barely time to catch
your breath, you know. By the Gay.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Costa Rica, did you get involved in casting, because I
I remember they came to me to ask about who
was going to play the family right.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
No, you know, I really was never involved in casting.
I would go to production meetings for the episodes that
I've written. I would be involved in a you know,
and some other things with respect to props and special
effects and things like that, casting and being on set.
That was pretty much the exclusive domain of Rick and
(24:52):
Brandon and then maybe later Chris Black and Fred Decker might
have had some involvement in that in the first season,
since he'd been a director as well as a writer.
So but yeah, you know, this was, yeah, I was.
I was focused almost exclusively on writing scripts. And in fact,
if I remember correctly, we did I think gate episodes
(25:13):
ninety eight or ninety nine episodes of Enterprise, and I
think I was involved in the story breaks for ninety
six of them, no kidding. And you know, the story
breaks typically it's four or five six hours a day,
four or five days, and ideally that's you'll have the
outline pretty much done by then. It varies a bit,
(25:35):
and you know, there can be time on the weekends,
and you know, but even when I was writing scripts,
I was still typically involved in the in the story breaks.
So I would just put aside the script for a
few hours and then when the story break, and then
go back to my office and work a few more
hours on the script. You know, So yeah, that was
(25:58):
It didn't leave time for much else.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
One of the scenes I love and this, I love
this when when storytellers do these things. That scene where
they're speaking to Reid's parents, and you know, they're clearly
sort of a post war about what they're doing, they're
tight lift and it says so much about Reid's character
(26:25):
without talking about it. Yes, you know, I mean, it's
it's it really sort of cements. Oh okay, well no,
all right, this is all making sense.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yeah, you know, when I'm from that I remember writing
that scene and I remember, you know, I got to
get this right, and I had to imagine, you know,
I mean, I've known British people over the years and
then to Britain, and you know, I didn't want to
get too stereotypical about any of that, and I kind
of used I guess to some extent, my own parents
(26:57):
has a bit of a model because they were from
Europe and very kind of you know, you know, not
as not as demonstrative as people at least I don't know,
different generation, you know, my parents were brun in the
early nineteen thirties and different time, you know, and but
of course this is the future, so they didn't you know,
these were not people who necessarily grew up during World
(27:19):
War Two, right, but still, I just you know, I
kind of made your mother. I made your mother a
little harsh and in fact.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Was either Oh I mean, guys, sign it was just
brilliant him. He didn't break He just the one thing.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
They ate what he ate what was put in front
of him.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I love the fact that they were they were I
wanted to do you call it malaya, I mean just amazing.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Yeah. When I wrote that first line about for when
when Hosh she asks them, you know what what is
you know, what is Malcolm like to eat? And he
ate what he was fed?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I think the fox, Yeah, he was put in front
of him.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
But when I when Chris read that, you know, Chris
Black gave me something said, yeah, that's a little harsh.
I think maybe that's It's like, well, I didn't think
it was that harsh, And that's probably what my mother
would have said to me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So anyway that he'd broken rank with with not being
a navel man, that was large enough.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
And I don't I wish I could claim that that
was my idea. I don't know that it was, but
that might have been Chris uh Brannon or somebody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
But they were both great. Jane Carr was terrific.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Yeah, and again you know it. Yeah, when I when
I think back, I never got to meet them, never
got to say hi and thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So they probably came in for one day and just
did that.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Wilcolmson, he played my sister. I ended up working on
she actually, I mean quite a career. She was on
Sons of Anarchy and then she became Leaf Striver's wife
in that fixer show he did. Oh, I forget the
name of it. What was that show called? Remember con
just recently in the last five.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's a guys.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, she had a wonderful part playing his sort of
struggling wife.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Well that's great, you know I didn't realize that. Look
her up.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, she dish and she she nailed that British act
and beautifully.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah, she's a good actress, very smart. Uh what else
it is? So, I tell you what one thing that
jumped out at me was that suddenly it comes to
like that that color's got a girlfriend in Pensacola. It's
already been pregnant with a lady in a holographic boat.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
It was like.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Pensacola.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
He didn't call the girlfriend and showed that information.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
No, well, you know subspace radio in those days. Yeah,
that was that day. Yeah, that whole uh trip gets pregnant.
That was a early brand and Braga concept. He wanted to, uh,
he wanted to do that, and he wanted to and
again another example of how weird are these aliens that
(30:21):
we're encountering, right, And you know, I pushed back a
little bit about when she gives you that woman in
the the alien woman in that weird ship gives you
a you know, a glass of liquid and she says,
this is the closest thing we could we could make
or find to water. And I'm like I told Brandon,
it's like water is. It's everywhere. It's universe. You know,
that's one of the most common molecules in the entire universe.
(30:43):
It's not just on Earth. He said, you want to
make them just sound really weird and different. And of
course that you know, and that could have been just
a communication issue with her and whatever. But yeah, that
was a fun episode.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
How about just about the nose in that we've gone
out with not enough firepower, Yeah, and we have to
go back.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
None of our systems aren't all online and yeah, left
loading dock is sort of you know, half cocked.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
R Yeah, and again that was again part of the
you know, a little wet behind the ears aspect of
you know, humanity in the mid twenty twenty in the
mid twenty second century going out there, and the Balkans
warned us, you know, you guys, I don't think you're
really prepared for what you're going to encounter at all.
And we were a little cocky and over confident, I guess,
(31:33):
the humans, and and so we wanted to kind of
play again, play that up a bit. And and yet
the great thing in you know, Silent Enemy, of course,
is that Archer resists the idea of going back to
Earth and tells, you know, Read and and Trip and
the team, we can do this. We're going to do
(31:55):
this ourselves. We're not We're not back and we're not
going to turn tail and run every time we we
counter difficulties. Yes we we we you know, we're not
entirely ready. That's that's when the pressure, you know, the
pressure is on, and that's when the tough get going right.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
So it's almost like it's a battlefield ethos, isn't it
that like you know, we don't have everything. Well, the
hell with it, we're going.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
But I love that we're given the chance to prep
before we go back to Jupiter, and that lovely speech
with me and Connor Trip, when Trip gives us sort
of JFK speech about you know, don't ask what you
can do for you.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
And yeah, and I thought that was very And I
love the fact I think if I'm writing saying, this
is the episode where you guys, Brannon maybe or the
writers in general saw the relationship between Trip and Malcolm,
and we have that scene in.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
The hold of the face cannon hold hold and we're
head to ahead, you know nothing bang right, yeah, yeah,
And I think that was the derivation for our Shuttle
Pod one episode later that season, that right at the end.
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Yeah, but they saw absolutely yeh, yeah, for sure. No. Again,
that's another great example of how, you know, the actors
informed the roles and then the development of future stories,
right so clearly that you know, if that had not
worked the way that it did and as well as
it did, yeah, who knows if we would have even
done the you know, the Shuttle Pod one story, it
(33:33):
might not have It might not have seemed like a
good idea. I didn't know what you guys were doing
and what you were capable of doing, and how well
you guys played off of each other, right.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It was that we were running out of money.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Maybe would.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I had forgotten. I didn't
realize it was this episode. But there's been a longgoing
story about an episode, and it's this one. And it's
the scene I'm about to talk about where we're about
to put the torpedoes in to shoot and read and
(34:12):
trip are moving around. It was late, late at night,
it was.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Three in the morning, mate, I write the line down.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It was so hard, and you know the story is
gone that that. You know, you tore off the script
and put it on your forehead.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
You gotta post it note But you didn't. But you didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
What you did was because I looked at the scene
and I was like, that's what it is. You had taken.
I think you'd gone to jan and pulled out the
line which I couldn't get and stuck it right because
I remember about the I'm looking up, I'm looking right
there because I times where there's a line that comes
(34:54):
you just can't I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Late line walls. If we repolarize the gravity plating to
observe the recoil, that we can shut the energy to
structural integrity.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Take twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
It was three of them morning and that's a that's
a classic Andre Bormanis.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
That just gave me a hive?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Sorry, if we repolarized.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Sut the energy.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And I remember looking at the scene and going like,
you know, he's looking a lot, wasn't that. Yeah, he's
looking up, he's looking down, he's looking up, and that's
because dominic A torn a piece off. Yeah, and was like,
just read it from there.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Read it.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
You should have seen the line before we we edited it.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
It was all that.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
I got it. I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I was all.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
I tried to be very conscious of those kinds of
you know, I try to be conscious of the fact
that you guys, you know, are not physicists, not electrical engineers.
I need to make sure that this stuff is as
short and sweet as it can possibly be. And I
remember when I was working on Deep Space nine, I
(36:07):
had a script that Michael Pillar had written and it
was a It was they were on a planet and
none of their equipment was working. Something went wrong with
their phasers and their tricorders and this and that nothing
was working, and so Cisco, you know, was saying, what
the hell is going on? And A Brian's there, you know,
(36:30):
the engineer the transporter tech and whatever, and he's like,
I had to give him some kind of an explanation.
And the only thing I could think of that would
be realistic is if the planet had an exceptionally strong
magnetic field and it flipped a lot, it fluctuated, because
that can penetrate the shielding of electronic equipment and cause
(36:52):
circuits to fritz and so forth. Yeah, that was the
closest thing I could kind of come up with. Oh
there's a rapidly fluctuating him. Blah lah lah da, you
know something. Whatever. And I send my notes to Michael Pillar,
and you know, faxed them in those days, believe it
or not. This is the last second season at d
(37:13):
S nine or something back in the early nineties. And
I got back my notes from Michael Pillar with some
his own little notes and corrections. And when he came
to that line, he'd written in big block letters, mng E.
I'm like, the hell's nge me. So I called Jerry Taylor,
who was writing, you know, one of our writers and
(37:34):
supervising producers at the time. She was basically the one
I hired me to be the science consultant. Loved Jerry.
She was a great, great writer, really good person. And
I said, Jerry, I just, I just I got these
notes back from from Michael and in this one line
he kept writing nnge and CAFs And she said, oh,
that means not good enough. Oh oh, And I looked
(37:58):
at that and I realized, oh, I understand. Colomini, right,
who played O'Brien, had to say this like seven times
in the episode. What a ridiculous mouthful, you know, And
I'm giving this poor guy.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Did you end up with in the end?
Speaker 4 (38:13):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It boiled out to.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
A duo neetic field. Now that was a portmanteau, if
you will. It was something I made up based in
the original Star Trek. There was a famous episode where
an intelligent computer is given control of the shift and
M five, and they had talked about on the Enterprise
(38:38):
they had duotronic circuits and M five was a multitronic unit,
so duotronic I think they did. They thought electro geene,
Rob Murray must have thought that electronics sounded too primitive. Yeah, electronics,
that's that's very sixties. That's no, we need something better.
So he came up with whatever writer duotronic. So I thought, well,
(38:58):
the equivalent of a duotronic circuit be a doingetic field
today and column you know, could remember that, Yeah, And
I remembered at the at the first rap party I
went to for DS nine, I was there by myself,
and you know, people were milling about. It was very
fun and and a nice place. And I saw Terry
(39:21):
Farrell standing by herself, you know, who played Dax. Tall,
beautiful woman, and I'd never met her before, and I
kind of walked over and introduced myself. She wasn't with anybody,
Miss Carol Andre Bormantis. Oh yeah, what what is it
that you do on the show? And I said, I'm
I'm you know, I'm the science consultant. I have to apologize,
(39:43):
and I'm the one who puts all that technobabble into
your dialogue. She looked at me like she literally grabbed
me by the lapels of my jacket, almost lifted me
off of my feet, and said, you have me hey,
how And then she started laughing. I said, no, no,
it's mine. But she told me something very and it's like,
(40:03):
I wish somebody had told me this, like the day
that I started. She said, you know, if I'm in
a scene by myself and I'm just talking to the computer,
pretty much as much of that stuff in my dialogue
as you want, because you know, I could read it
off a screen or you know, que card or something. Right,
I'll remember it, you know, well enough by the time
we do that scene. But if I'm in a scene
(40:25):
with other actors and I have to think about what's
happening in this scene, what's the emotional dynamic, and I
got to hit my marks and I got to respond
to these other actors, then I would appreciate it if
you could, just, like, you know, keep that technobabble stuff
to a bare minimal because because in those situations it's
really hard for me to remember words that mean nothing
(40:46):
to me.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Right, well, did you say, you say, what are you
going to do for me?
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Had I been thinking, I would have said, sure, Terry,
I could do that. Sure, what's the word to you?
What's the word?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
And then she went someone else, She married.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Adam Memoy. I don't know if they're still together.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Did you carry on as the science consultant for the
entirety of our show?
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Well, yeah, because we basically didn't hire anybody new. And
you know, one of the edicts from Brandon and Rick
was We're going to have a lot less technobabble in
this show. This is not going to be like you know,
Voyager and Next Gen and DS nine, where that was
kind of the stock in trade of how these people
talk to each other, right, we want this to be
more down to earth, more like people talking today. So
(41:34):
we did a lot less of it, so it wasn't
as much of a you know, it didn't take up
nearly as much of my time as it did when
we were doing both Voyager and DS nine simultaneously. Didn't
necessarily take up all that much time back when we
were doing those two shows compared to writing you know,
the actual scripts. But you know, I've done it long
(41:55):
enough that it was very manageable to me to do that,
you know, on top of everything else. I doubt I
spent more than an hour or two a week. Maybe
if there was something that involved a little bit of research,
you know, if I wanted to make oh that's you know,
doctor Flox has got to do something that's medically appropriate. Well,
(42:15):
I knew doctors I could call to help me with that,
you know, or other people who had a particular expertise.
But you know, it wasn't you know, that was a
small part of what I needed to do. And so yeah,
it really wasn't really wasn't that big a component of
the show compared to the others.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Big and a doctor Flocks, I mean, he completely makes
any kind of hippo oath he said, yeah, with Hoshi
that I'm a dust mites. Oh, there are just ship.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Well, I'll tell you you know, I wanted to make
Flocks a veterinarian. I told Brandon, you know, we should
reveal at some point during you know, the first season
that back on the Nobula, you know, his home world,
he's actually not allowed to practice another denogamals because he's
basically a veterinarian. And Brandon thought that was money, but he's.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Like, hey, we got him half price.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Yeah exactly, I got him cheap. That's why he's a lone. Right.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
You came up with this whole brumolin idea because Remin
you are you ag Yeah, no, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
I'm not allergic to it, but I started taking Lippitur.
You know, I have some coronary artary disease, and so
I take that very seriously. And uh, you know, after
my brother John had his heart attack at the age
of forty two while I was forty five, forty six
or something, and I, you know, went to get a
(43:46):
calcium scan in my heart found out I had you know,
high calcium score and probably plaquese. So went to the
cardiologist and they put me on Lippitur. And one of
the things weird thing about lippatur, which is a statin
drug and it's been around for many years. It's great
at keeping your cholesterol levels low and reducing the accumulation
(44:07):
of plaque in your arteries. But it has some weird
interaction with an enzyme called bromolin, which is common in pineapple, pineapple,
and grapefruit. And so they tell you, you know, avoid
pineapple and grapefruit. You don't have to. You know, it's
not going to kill you if you eat a piece
of pineapple, but you know, you don't want to eat
pineapple every day if you're taking this drug, or grapefruit.
(44:30):
And I loved grapefruit because weirdly enough, growing up in Phoenix, Arizona.
My parents. The house that they bought was on what
used to be the property of a big grapefruit tree orchard.
You know, they grew a lot of citrus in Phoenix
in the early twentieth century, twenties, thirties, forties. There were
citrus everywhere. And then they started to city started to
(44:51):
grow and they started to build, you know, subdivisions in
these old citrus groves. And so we had like a
dozen grapefruit trees in our property. You know, they left
most of the trees and then just build the houses.
And you know, we have fresh grapefruit every every fall,
and it was delicious. I loved it, and then I
had to stop eating it. And every time I went home,
(45:12):
my dad would give me a bag of grapefruit today
back to LA and I have to just sort of
give it away because you know, I would eat half
of one. You know, what are the consequences of the well,
the consequence that's a very good question. And I asked
my cardiologist doctor Wu. He said, well, he said, it
basically potentiates the effect of the lipatour whatever the active
(45:34):
ingredients are. He said, It's like you're taking a higher
dose of lippati and we don't want you to, you know,
inadvertently take a higher dose. Amazing, it's a weird thing.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
And he and I said they even found that out.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
I mean, and I said that, Hey, well, well he said,
I said, so if I were to take a lower
dose and have a grapefruit every day with that, you know,
be he said, He said, you know, if this was
some third world country where you know, access to lipoitours
is difficult or limited, maybe that would be a good idea.
(46:08):
But he said, the problem is it's uncontrollable. You don't
know how your body's going to react, and it wouldn't
necessarily be the same day to day. So it's like,
I know, you're taking however many milligrams a day in
the pill form, and that's what you're getting. If you
were to take that and grapefruit every day, who knows
what your dose is going to be. It would vary
and it would and it might get dangerously high. So
(46:29):
that's why we discourage it.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I didn't know because I'm not and I hadn't. Don't
doctor saying anything.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Really, yeah, we'll tell straighten that quack out when you
see doctor blocks or something.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
He said above her clinic. I mean, I mean, how
we can get No.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
I'm sure. Again, it's like depending on the dosage, if
you're on a lower do I'm on the maximum dose actually,
so for me, I guess they say, yeah, be careful,
you know.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
But it's a nice touch and the fact that it
becomes his birthday cake and seeing at the end, I
have to say, how do you know? Yeah, and it's charming.
And I remember my somewhat consummeate experience in commercial acting
(47:19):
having to get the products exactly in the air, take up,
you know, and then see my eye through the I remember, oh, yes,
that's a consume its spray on gels.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Hilarious, that's so funny. But yeah, that was you know,
I guess, you know, thinking back on it, I haven't
watched the episode in a long time, but you know,
as we talk about it, it's like, yeah, I thought
that really worked well, you know, I mean it it
had a lot of interesting All of the kinds of
things that we wanted to do in enterprise we did
(47:55):
in that episode. And one of the things that I
think we didn't do the we could have done better
as the series went on, and I think we started
to do it certainly by the fourth season, is serving
the idea of we're seeing sort of the building blocks
of what would become the United Federation of Planets. You know,
(48:16):
how does the Federation come into existence, Where does the
prime directive come from? And so on and so forth.
I think the fans wanted to see more of that.
We were kind of focused, especially in that first season,
on characters and making it clear that this is this
is a show where it's people like normal, everyday people
(48:40):
in the present day world, having this extraordinary opportunity and
responding the way that your eye might respond if we
were suddenly given this opportunity to fly out into the
galaxy and we'd be it would be both wonder and
terror yea, even in the most mundane circumstances. Yeah, And
of course the terror side of it was something that
(49:02):
rarely has ever h factored into the other shows. You know,
Kirk was never scared. You know, the card about.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
Who she is that she's almost not paying attention to
how serious this is because she's so focused to figure
out what to do.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yeah, which is which is? Which is a kind of
coping mechanism, and you could see it that way.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Anyway, So yeah, I love that, uh this the fritzy scene,
whether the aliens leave.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
The uh the little spy cam.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, yeah, And I thought that was very freaky and yeah, ystopian,
and they were they use it against us when they
come back, and it's it's like a sort of Internet
meme now, isn't it. You know?
Speaker 4 (49:51):
And that was our first all c g I alien
on Enterprise and.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
They were freaky looking things.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
Dan Curry Curry designed those and those aliens. Yeah it was.
And Dan of course is you know, legendary VFX uh,
you know, and and and and a great storyteller.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (50:10):
He thinks through his designs, you know, in the context
of stories, and came up with some of the Klingon
weaponry and next gen you know, and all based on
that sort of you know, who are the Klingons, what
is their history, what is their marshal tradition and all
of this stuff, you know. And and yeah, Dan, Dan
Dan Dan is a gem.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
He was.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
He was instrumental and uh, you know, and so many
things in the in the visual uh, you know, the
look and feel of the show, especially with regard to
you know, the CGI and those CGI aliens. They were creepy,
and you know, we we obviously you know, it's it's
better now, But I think our budget only allowed us
(50:53):
to see those aliens for a total of thirty thirty
five seconds.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Maybe, well that's sort of the great thing that you
get out of you know, really good horror films do
not allow you to see the exactly very much. And yeah,
you saw them cross that hallway, oh no, But then
then it became a mystery of like where are the
oh no people? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
Yeah, the anticipation of seeing them again and what they
might do to us is what's scary, not the actual
you know, in your face stuff where you see them,
you know, in their in their horrible alien glory. Right,
That's that's that's fun for a second or two, right, right.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah, it was a good storytelling. I thought it was
a fantastic episode. It's it's really wonderful to come back
to some of these. And you know, we were talking
to Mike Susman, what was the episode.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
Dumb uh well, civilizationation, you know, and and uh, you
know he he definitely was like, yeah, I mean it's
not my favorite of these, but I you know, I
thought that we were coming out we came out of
the gate really hot.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Storytelling. And you know, there are episodes that are probably
a little you know, underwater at times, but most of
the ones that we had out in the first season,
at least to this point, m pretty great. Yeah, you know,
to your and we did such an interesting thing with
(52:27):
with taking a real mysterious danger, marrying that to the
mystery of not a dangerous thing present, which is read
and finding that balance, which is that's just damn good storytelling.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
In my mind, it was really well. And I think
that the show is really you know, it's it's aged well.
I don't like to use that term. I can't think
of a better one. But you know, people of course
in the Star Trek universe who had grown up on
the original, the next gen and so forth, you know,
they had certain expectations and we tried to do something
(53:02):
pretty different, which was a risk, and so there were
some mixed feelings and mixed reviews. But I think as
time has gone on, people have returned to the show
and reappraised it. And you know, when I watched the
yor Cee scenes today, I mean it's like, I think
the storytelling generally really good. The scene work is good.
(53:22):
You guys are great, and and and just the production design,
the production values and the CGI. And you know, that
was the first show we did where we didn't build
a physical model of a ship. We had a physical
model of the Voyager, but we put that back in
its in its in its shipping crate. I think sometime
in the fourth or fifth season, is right, because at
(53:45):
that point we could afford to do a CGI version
of the ship on a weekly basis for at least
a few scenes. So of course we used stock footage
of the model, you know, for establishing shots and you
know we're just flying at warp or whatever, you know,
use use that sort of footage over and over. But
the new stuff for there was you know, for specific episodes.
(54:06):
I think by season five all of the new shots
of the ship were CGI. We you know, we physically
scanned the model and built it on the computer and
put in all of the details and and of course
we could do things with that CGI model which you
would never do to that beautiful, you know, five foot
fiberglass model that Rob Logatto built that you know, across
(54:29):
one hundred and thousand some odd dollars. You know, we
could blow holes in it. We could blow it apart,
you know, and then put it right back together, because
it's all in the computer, you know. So it was
it was a real sea change, and it was fun
to watch that evolution, you know, as a writer and
a producer in television from you know, all of the
(54:50):
stuff that we did on Next Gen and the first
few seasons of Voyager and DS nine. Their models. You know,
Rick Sternbach used to build little plastic models. You know,
he'd take a big razor and put some other things,
and you know, it was an alien ship and if
you shoot it from you know, five ft away, it
can look kind of cool. You know, you add some
lights and you do this and that. All of those
were physical models until you know, the late nineties and
(55:14):
now it's all you never had a physical model again,
so all on the computer and uh and on or
build SETH McFarland insisted on building a physical model of
the Orville because he he felt that it still brought
a level of realism to the look of of those shots,
(55:36):
the hero shots. You know, when you're getting in close
and you're steering it on a you know, on a
on a on a crane and doing the you know,
the camera work, you know, actually on a set, and
I think he was probably right. We can use that
beyond I think the first few weeks of filming, because
(55:58):
we also had a digital model of the Orville. We
may have used it a few other times. I don't
remember now, but but yeah, that's it's a dying art now.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (56:07):
I don't know if there's anybody out there really who
builds models anymore, unless they're sort of, you know, really
advanced hobbyists who love that kind of stuff. You know
that movie Moon that David Bowie's son directed, what's his name?
Speaker 1 (56:21):
I forget his name, Sam Rockroll's film?
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Wasn't it Zobe Bowie I'm Losing You Joey's he goes
By Joey now right, Joey Bowie Joey Bowie, doesn't I
think so? Because it was Zouie.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
That's what it was, though, Zowie is that was Zoe Bowie,
Sawie Bowie, He.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Goes by joe Joe Joey something like that, And that.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
Was Sam rockroll movie. Wasn't it Moon?
Speaker 4 (56:42):
It was?
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Wasn't it You Have We Lost You?
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Oh? I'm I'm there. My my ear pods went out?
Was that Doug Jones. Is that the director shop Moon?
Speaker 1 (56:53):
I uh.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Gosh, it was maybe fifteen twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, it was a sound of film, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (57:05):
Yeah, yes, well yeah, but that that was done with models.
They built a little lunar landscape and they built models
for the rovers and whatever. So but that's that's almost
never done anymore.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
So well, thank you Andre.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Oh it's been my pleasure. This is so much fun. Guys,
it's so great again when.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
We come to another another bull Minest episode. If you don't,
we'll come back to you.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
I would love to, and I will put the word
out and uh and tell all of my friends and
fans to uh support you guys, because obviously I think
this is great what you're doing, the decon chambers a
lot of fun and deserves a wider audience. All right,
but thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
And what a great episode.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Yeah, thanks, Yeah, it was so fun revisiting it with you, guys.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
I want to say it was really really good. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Now I'm going to have to watch it again.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
It's pretty good and it's beautiful Britain. And I have
to say, and as you said beginning of this whole chat,
as actors, we We really found our characters in this episode,
I think a lot. I mean, there's a great scene
between Archer and and Trip in the engineering together, and
there's there's some really good stuff and some of the
(58:18):
acting is so nuanced and lovely and it's all just
hearing the eyes.
Speaker 4 (58:23):
It felt that way to us. It absolutely felt their
way to and I think the shot that very very
well in that regard a lot of real close ups. Yes, yeah, absolutely,
absolutely see.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
I mean I said, I mean, that's the scene with
ho She in the mess or I was cracking laughing
when it flickers across Malcolm's face as he's busy to
her deadline, and it's like, God, she's asking me to
have sex with her hot plates. And then then Hosy's
(58:57):
reaction is.
Speaker 4 (58:58):
Oh no, yeah, that's great. Hello, such fond memories. It's great.
It's great really with you guys.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Thank you Proul, big loving
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