October 5, 2025 • 49 mins
Dominic Keating and Connor Trinner watch Star Trek: Enterprise's "Detained". They're joined by special guest Jeff Lewis, now a producer and filmmaker, but back in the day, an acclaimed make-up artist who made sure Dominic and Connor looked their best every day. You can thank him for turning Dom into a Suliban! Let's revisit this thought-provoking romp, which features Dean Stockwell as a decidedly non-holographic prison warden.
Each week, we explore and celebrate the lives that the Star Trek universe has forever changed. From former and future cast and crew members to celebrities, scientists, and astronauts whose personal and professional journeys have been affected by the franchise, we sit down and dive deep with a new friend, laughing and learning from their stories. Sit back, grab a drink, and join our hosts, Dominic Keating and Connor Trinneer, as we get geeky in The D-Con Chamber.
Let's get social! -
📘 Facebook: The D-Con Chamber
📸 Instagram: @thedconchamber
🐦 Twitter: @thedconchamber
⏰ TikTok: @thedconchamber
🌐 Website: https://thedconchamber.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-d-con-chamber--6181422/support.
Each week, we explore and celebrate the lives that the Star Trek universe has forever changed. From former and future cast and crew members to celebrities, scientists, and astronauts whose personal and professional journeys have been affected by the franchise, we sit down and dive deep with a new friend, laughing and learning from their stories. Sit back, grab a drink, and join our hosts, Dominic Keating and Connor Trinneer, as we get geeky in The D-Con Chamber.
Let's get social! -
📘 Facebook: The D-Con Chamber
📸 Instagram: @thedconchamber
🐦 Twitter: @thedconchamber
⏰ TikTok: @thedconchamber
🌐 Website: https://thedconchamber.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-d-con-chamber--6181422/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The show has begun with Carr.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's the con same.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Trekky's and trekkers. Welcome
back to another watch party episode of the Dcon Chamber.
As always, I'm with my co host and best friend
dominic keating chief champ of Paul Yep In this episode,
you kind of look like you're in one.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They is episode twenty one Detained, written by Mike Sussman
and Philis Strong and directed by David Livingstone. It's unique
in that they were able to get Dean Stockwell, who
most of you all know was the cohort of Scott
(00:51):
on Quantum Leap, and I never got to work with him.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Did you get as you did? Yeah? Yeah we did.
I was there in the you know, the rescue scene.
So they'll never be able to resist what the Cabala
has to offer.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I haven't been here very long, but I seem to
know these people a hell of a lot better than
you do.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I've got to sit next to him a lot in
Video Village, and he liked me a lot because the
only thing he wanted to talk about was golf. Yeah,
which is I can talk of that until the cows
come home and we have with us.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I'm a special guest, among other things. At the time
we were working with Jeff Lewis our makeup artist. He
was the makeup artist for me, Dom and Anthony and
has gone on to produce, write, create all sorts of
(01:52):
projects and has a bunch of stuff in his Easter
basket right now. Jeff Lewis, thanks for being on here
with us.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yes, Jeff, it's been a lot time, brother.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I know, hours together.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Barely changed, mate, I mean, apart from the gray Beard. Honestly,
you look pretty much exactly the same, dude.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
I'm surprised we all do. Actually, Yeah, that's a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's twenty five years mate, Yeah, yeah, extraordinary.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
We're all looking to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I remember, I remember. I have such fond memories of
like late at night, you know, we bring out the
football and just toss it back and forth.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
In stage eighteen in that alleyway in the sort of
concourse there.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah, especially working on David Livingston's episode, because we know
those were all eighteen to twenty hour days, you know, yeah,
shot forever, you know, Bless.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I nearly thought it's a surprise him and ring him
up this morning and say, listen, David, if you're free,
do you want to come in and pitch on him?
But I just knew that it was going to be consternation.
He's going, oh I watch the episode. Oh yeah, oh no, right,
but you know what, let's we'll just leave it. We'll
leave Jeff can talk it through it. This must have
been just a gargantuan episode for the makeup trailer. I
(03:10):
mean the show opens with Anthony and the captain obviously
in prison somewhere, and they peek through the door, which
is oddly open, but nevertheless he uh and they see
nothing but suliban everywhere they look. I don't know how
(03:33):
many sulabans you had to do that that much. I
mean it was the call time.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
There's gotta be twenty of them, it's got to.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, no, those those there was a few days
where we had a bunch of people and we usually
started on those about four four thirty in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I mean, you know, because how long hake to do
each one?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I mean depending on who did it, like it was
you know Brad and I I mean we were kind
of kicking those guys out and our half, you know,
our and forty five minutes. Others that were kind of
like because I.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Mean the spaces were they had seven or eight pieces,
didn't they at least?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah? Yeah, But you know, the more we did it,
the faster we kind of got. Whereas the other people
we just brought in the day checkers we brought in,
it would take them two and a half hours because
they just weren't familiar. Like we were right and I
got it down. But I think even doing your makeup,
I think we even took I think I took about
two hours fifteen mins.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It being two to two and a half something. Yeah, yeah,
make up for Star Trek.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
By the time we met.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
H see, i'd started on Deep Space, so I did
Deep Space and Voyager, So by the time we got there,
I was probably on there five years, and then we
did four years of Enterprise, so I was there nine
years total.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But yeah, good gig.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So I got I got through all the Boorgs and
all those guys before you, and then Sulamans were kind
of like the new the new thing we had for that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It was a lovely sort of oasis slash sanctuary. The
makeup trailer. I used to love it for the time
I spent in there, and a couple of times I
did have to do some extensive makeup. It was just
always very chill. Yeah, you created a lovely atmosphere in there,
and well that's.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
What was always nice about you guys, is like the makeup,
the hair department and the actors. We were all I think,
very good friends and very well. Made things a lot
easier there wasn't you could kind of just relax and
be yourself and our trailers and yeah, you know, and
then you know, once you got to set, it was
you kind of had to flip into a different person,
you know, person on there. But we just had a
(05:38):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But yeah, it was you know, the professionality had to
come through. And yeah, you know, especially you guys. Yeah,
how did.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
You How did you get into this business?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
After going to college? I just kind of thought this
was my Niche went to move to California after I
graduated and went to make up school and and had
met Mike Westmore about a year later, and he said, hey,
whenever you get into the Union, you can start working
at Star Trek the next day. And I thought, okay,
people say things a lot, and like three years later
(06:12):
I finally got all my union days in and he
literally called me that that day that I got into
the union that night and he said, okay, show up
tomorrow at four am.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Amazing. Impressed him with your early You must have shown
him some offerings, as it were.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
What he liked is I did everything. I did prosthetics,
I did beauty makeup. I did, you know, could do
all the hair work and stuff, and so in sculpt
and mold make you know, be a mold maker and stuff.
So he kind of just saw, you know, because we
kept everything in house, you know, we did We did
all of our own sculpting and mold making. It ran
our own pieces and stuff like that. So I think
(06:46):
I was just very versatile, you know, to him that
I could just do multiple things versus just doing one
kind of makeup or another.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Whenever I'd come in to sit down in your chair,
you say, ah, here comes mister handsome.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I had you were You guys were always pretty simple,
you know, because you guys kept in great shape and
you know, and all that. And I mean, granted, in
my career, I've worked with a lot of guys that
I had to do a lot of work on covering
eyeballs and stuff that you were relative, but they are,
(07:23):
you know, some of them.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, that doesn't look that good.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
The only other guy had George Clooney. He was he
was pretty darn good. Yeah. We'd go out drinking and
he'd get up the.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Chill guy, isn't he. I bumped into him once or
twice at the bar that he used to live over
there in Fryman Canyon, Canyon, and there's a bar there
on Ventura that he used to hang out, and he
was whenever you'd see him that he was always just
chatting with anyone that was chatting at the bar. And
he's a very cool dude.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Oh yeah, a good time. But no, you guys were
always just so good.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So look, Sulavan, you're there at four in the morning.
You get the last one in. And I'm sure I
was the one that played the most.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Oh no, no, because I think before your makeup, I
had to probably do one or two prior to that.
So and then we speed. Yeah, so you said there,
you know quite.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I didn't mind the putting on. I have to say
the putting on was rather lovely making. You always were
very gentle, even because I remember you were. You guys
were the first ones to get the special air brush. Yeah,
we never I don't think you'd ever had those before.
And that was a very chill, lovely sort of.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You know thing to go through our normal makeup. Our
normal makeup time to get me on set was about
seven minutes.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, and that was about it. And then you guys
want to often dominic, you usually did your hair and
the makeup trailer anyway, and I did, Yeah, skipt hair
trailer altogether most days pretty much.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I came. I came with my own paste.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
They touched you on set, and every.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Now and again I look at a shot at me
and go, yeah, I ever pasted there. It's a little
it's a little billy idol. So Anthony and h and
Scott wake up. They're they're in the what we find
out to be a detention centers. Yes, it's a very
(09:32):
poignant episode, particularly right now given the Tandarans are at
some in some sort of war with the Sulaban, but
particularly with the Cabal Suliban, who have genetically modified themselves
and can slither underdoors and do all sorts of nefarious things.
And they make no distinction. And we don't know that either.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't know who you are but you're wrong about us.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Is that so we're not genetically enhanced and we're not
members of the Cabal?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, we don't. I mean, there's one incredibly poignant line
in the in the episode where all that seems to
matter to them is that this is one of the Suliband,
the father character Dank. I think it is. Well, it
seems to matter, is the way we look. I mean,
could that be any more you know, pertinence to the
(10:27):
days we're living in here in the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
That's what's chilling to hear that. But Star Trek has
always been like that. You look back to the original
series and it was very You could tell the stories
were very had had a political undertone of the time,
and it always kind of changed through whether it was
the original or Voyager or Deep Space. You always had
that that current undertone of politics in there.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yes, but not shoved down your throat.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I mean, but you could, yeah, I mean you could
tell who the Klingons were. You could tell who you know,
like what what Geene Roddenberry was trying to say, like
Cleanons kind of were that Russian kind of you know,
right force and stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And yeah, but it's holding up a mirror to reflect
upon what's happening.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what that's what Geene Roddenberry
started and everybody just kind of carried that through with
all the other shows.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So Colonel Grat played by the Dean Stockqwell, it's a
lovely perf it really is. And we were lucky to
get him. Oh yeah, God knows. I mean we're losing
them all now, aren't we yesterday? I mean it's yeah right,
we're coming to that point in our life where all
(11:45):
these you know, our heroes from adolescents are now passing
on bless.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Oh yeah, I mean I was, you know, I'm a
huge Sevesto Stolone fan, and to sit there and think, God,
he's almost eighty, him up, what he's like seventy eight,
seventy nine. It's all of our idols are going And
I was having a conversation with somebody saying, all of
our great music idols that we all grew up loving,
they're all in their eighties now, you know, and you know.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
The.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Unbelievably Keith Richards.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Or he'll live forever, you know, I take him out
of the category. He'll live.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, I mean, it's it's extraordinary. He's just pickled, as
it were, in a good way. So Colonel Grat says
to them, you know, it's a bit of a misunderstanding.
We thought you were genetically enhanced Sulaban posing as we
don't know what racy was, but apparently you're humans. We'll
get you on your way in three days.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
You'll have to appear before a magistrate on tender prime,
but the hearing should be brief. I'll explain that this
was just a innocent misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So and it's like, you know, settle back, you know,
enjoy your here at the detention center.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
But I think that Grat Grat's being cagy because he
knows that information about the about Salon, yes, you know,
and and all of that story. He's being so cagey
and waiting to see if Archer will just Hawken and Archer.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Apparently two Suliban soldiers crash landed near a town called
Broken Bowl, Oklahoma. They were chasing a klingon of all things.
I was wondering if you could provide some insight into
what they were doing there.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And he's not gonna And of course, you know, Captain
Archer gets wind pretty quickly that what's going down here
at the detention center is not to his liking. And
once again.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Beautiful performance by Danik Is that Dennis Christopher?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yes, it is, isn't it. It's lovely, isn't it wonderful? Yeah,
we're not criminals, Captain, and we're not soldiers. The only
thing we're guilty of is being Sulabi. Yeah, him and
the child are terrific, but he is. But he stands
out and it's a really thoughtful and a moving performance.
(14:12):
And yeah, I mean I found some of it hard
to look up. Obviously. The inspiration for this, as we know,
was manzan Ar.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Have you ever heard of mans in Ar? Subcommander, I'm
not familiar with that planet. It's not a planet. It
was an internment camp on Earth during the Second World War.
Japanese American citizens were imprisoned there, even though they didn't
do anything wrong. The same thing's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Here and the detention centers that the US government saw
fit to put up for the Japanese internment after Pearl Harbor.
But my word, I mean, it couldn't be more, you know,
on the nose of what's happening today with ice and
(15:00):
and in various cities around our country right now.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It's like they say, like life imitates art, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, no kidding and history stuff over and over and
over again.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yep, oh yeah, yeah, George k you know, I mean,
there's one of our original Star Trek guys and he
was in the internment camp. So yeah, I'm sure he's
very Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So we had a long chat with George at the
end of the last iteration of this show. He was
the last one we did, and we talked for literally
hours about his experience. Do you know, I didn't realize
I looked this up. They had ten thousand in term
you know, people in Man's in art and it's it's yeah,
(15:45):
it was a city. It was a city in the
middle of nowhere. I passed it when we whenever we
go to Mammoth to go snowboarding, you passed by Manzano
and the three ninety five North. It's right there. Yeah,
it's pretty yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In the meantime, coming back to your profession at the time,
there were requirements for makeup, not only for the Sulabon,
but you know the Tendorans. You know, they had something
they everybody had a lot to do. It must have
been it must have been just a grab bag of
people just lining up at the makeup trailer.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah. Well, and that was the fun thing, you know,
back then when we were doing all of our stuff
is you know, as you guys remember, I mean, we'd
have one of our sound stages we weren't using, and
we would set it up as a kind of a
triage kind of where all of our extra makeup people
and extra hair people were, because we would have at
times an extra forty or fifty you know, makeup and
(16:43):
an extra forty or so hair. So I mean we
could fill up a sound stage with you know, extra
artists and usually that was big days. That's kind of
like what we had because we didn't have enough room
in the trailers or in the upstairs makeup lab and
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How would it work in terms of so would you
you do so for instance, the first time the Sulaban
show up.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Michael Westmore was a huge part of this and the
designing element, but like so, you know, in terms of
development of highly make up actors, you have test runs,
would you how would this work? How would you do
this in your in the procedure of you you know,
(17:27):
knowing one, I know that you've got very little time
to get them ready, and you've got to know what
the things are that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
How did that? How did that work?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Well? It was funny because like when we I think
it was on the last day of Voyager because Deep
Space had already ended, because we're shooting both of those
at the same time. But Deep Space ended the year
before with its run, and then that next year when
Voyager was going down. On the last day of Voyager,
Michael came up to me and said, hey, you know,
(18:00):
we're doing Enterprise. I want you to, you know, be
on staff for that one. I said, okay, and he's like,
and we have these new characters called Suabon, so we
need to create something new, Like okay, So you know,
and back then we had very little time between that series.
I think we had a couple of months off two
and a half months off between that when we were
(18:20):
starting Enterprise, and he said, go out find something, research something,
figure out how I want something new. I want a
new skin. And so I left work that night for
a few hours and ended up going to the grocery
store brought back a cantelope press that into press that
in play and I said, Michael, here's our new skin,
(18:42):
and he's like, I love it. Let's go with it.
So over the next then two months, we just you know,
laid out thin then things of clay and I you know,
rolled them with the candle ope and we'd lay them
on the head forms and stuff and just developed the
whole you know, the whole look.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But that's they wouldn't name melon heads from there on,
wasn't they.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, because I brought that back. And then
and then Brad Looke went and he came up with
the coloring you know, that was the brown color yellow.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, how many layers of brush work would that
take to get that effect?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
That one was actually pretty easy because we just painted
the whole thing brown and then through and then just
dry brush or used a sponge and since the deep
layers would stay brown, we would hit all the top
parts right, you know, with the yellow. And that's what
kind of gave us that whole dimension to the makeup,
because you know, but that's that's how we how we
kind of came up with that makeup.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So it looked great, man, I have to say, And
you just you'd slightly do the hands just to sort
of you know, mix and match.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
The Yeah, well we came up with you know, because
even for the hands, we had appliances for your hands, remember.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well I don't remember that, we will.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think. I think for you we had like ten
or twelve appliances. Because we had the head, the throat, nose,
I remember, it was like spears hands.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, I had to be malleable, right that everything had
to be able to be moved naturally, so you couldn't
put on a mask of someone were to express.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The face pieces were there must have been eight separate
face pieces or something like that.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, because there was like two eyebags.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The nose, it was a skull cap that went all
the way down. That was the main thing.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, And that was the thickest part. Everything else was real.
It was real thin, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean at four in the morning when they take
that off, I mean a waterfall of sweat, oh god,
running down my back.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It was just well that's why even on yours now,
you know, because that that kept came all the way
down and to the back of the neck. I always
left a little a little opening down there because your
costume would cover it to where at least the sweat
could get out of.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Your little breathing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yeah, it wasn't you know, piling up in there.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So they were in the episode. Let's have a look,
So grat won't let Enterprise talk to uh, to the Captain,
Archer and Travis. I'd like to speak with them.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I'm sorry, but regulations forbid that.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
There's nothing to be concerned about.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
They've been placed in comfortable quarters and they're perfectly safe.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The other part of it was I love that speech
that Danik gives that, you know, back before this all
went down, you know, much like the Japanese living as
Americans in America, we were you know, neighbors and friends
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Did you know that I was born in the same
town as one of the guards, did you cleare?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I was friends with his brother when we were growing up.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Got the lead guard, the lead guard, lead god.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
A neighbor and friend. And it just makes it all
the more sort of, you know, disgusting, how we can
find ourselves in these you know, social situations as it were.
Danik's wife requests a transfer to the camp so she
can be with her, and our son is refused.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
We were separated during the relocation she's in one of
the other camps.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Her transfer is rejected again. She tried to appeal their decision,
but as usual, they wouldn't missen. I mean it's yeah,
it's pretty grim stuff. And as you say, kN you know,
Garret sorry grat realizes he knows all about Broken Bow
(22:28):
and and our Enterprise trying to get Tiny Lista the
Klingon back to his home world and then coming into
contact with sarn And, and he wants you the lowdown
on what we know about the cabal and the engineered.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I wouldn't know, You'd have to talk to my superiors.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
You know, A great deal Enterprise took the Klingon back
to his homeworld, isn't that right?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
So that it's that level of constant NSI idea about
what what does our enemy? What does our perceived enemy
entail in terms of what they can do? And you know,
again it comes back to things we deal with now.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Things maybe slippery slope though, isn't it. You know, you know,
this is when you start just rounding people up and
if you don't look the right color or don't speak
with the right accent. Yeah, yeah, you know you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
There's a possibility that you are going to be uh
detained and interred. Yeah, only for a reason of the
way you look or where you're from.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, which is pretty grim. Yeah. I mean do you
want I mean who wants? I mean, do we want
to live in a society that that that that is
the you know, the stable of its intent? I mean
not really so so anyway, Yes, So they're they're threatened
with the detention of another sixty days if they don't
(24:03):
fess up about what we know about the cabal and
Sara Sarn and everything that happened in the Broken Bow episode.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I'd hate to see you miss that transport tomorrow morning.
The next one won't arrive for another sixty days.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Enterprise traces the signal because they can't get a hold
on it, so they find out where we are, or
where Archer and Travis's, and we start heading to the
camp I've isolated. They carry a frequency, you see it.
I'm tracing it now bearing one seven to eight mark twelve,
how far five point two light years? We learned that
(24:40):
three Sigler band tried to escape through the dockum Bab,
but they were killed unceremoniously. You mean escape, Oh a
couple of years ago, three men pried up in one
of the security grades. What happened?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Oh, they managed to get inside before they could reach
a vessel.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
All three of them were killed. And then I love
that bit where we just beamed down a communicator right
to once we find the co ordinates. I mean that
is classic Star Trek and I just love it when
this this little walkie talkie phone shows up and all
of a sudden he's in touch with Paul.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
What took you so long?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Are you all right? More or less?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Is there a moment dom because I've watched this now twice.
I watched it yesterday and I watched it today, and
maybe I missed something. Is there a moment where somebody says, well,
let's let's put read in the thing finishing as we speak.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Though I'm not completely happy with the nose.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
No, it's kept secrets, it's there's it's it's implied that
we've got a we're hatching a plan.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I met a Suliban who knows this camp inside and out.
We've been working on a plant, but we're going to
need your help.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, but I love the fact that the last thing
you see is you it's done as you move the
transport of thing, mister talker, it's done. Whatever was there
has disappeared, and given that we've just sent a communicator. Yeah,
(26:20):
the idea is that it's just you know, because I
mean Read's infamous line in the pilot is yeah, for
fruits and vegetables only, right, I'm not putting any of
mine molecules through that. How'd you get down here, transporter?
I think I'm finally getting used to it, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
On episodes like this, you know, what was your how
many hours were you working?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Oh? Oh, I mean our normal days were like sixteen
to eighteen hour days with Livingstone though directing. I mean
that could have easily been a twenty hour day from
the time we got there at the time we cleaned
everybody up.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You know, people recognize quite exactly what it's like to
be a part of a television production, you know, and
and the amount of time that you spend at work
and the amount of time that it's literally your life.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah. Yeah, it's an army too. It's literally an army.
And depending on who's you know, number one on the
cool seat, as it were, the general depending on who
that is and what they're like, that can all filter
down through the hierarchy of the Army and that set
(27:35):
can be really fun be you know it.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Which is true for some shows. But for Star Trek,
I mean, thank god Scott was such a great it
really was. And but for Star Trek because we brought
everybody over, I mean everybody that had worked on Deep
Space also worked on you know, Voyager, and then pretty
much the whole Voyager crew came over for Enterprise, so
(28:00):
we kind of had things established so things weren't really
going to change depending on who the the who the
star was number one, which was nice, you know, it
was kind of it's we were on this runaway train
as far as the crew, so like anybody could have
disappeared at any point in time and that train would
have kept running down the tracks, you know, so which
which also made it nice. You know, it was very
(28:23):
Things just ran smooth. But because everybody had been there
so long and been doing the same thing, and we
had everything worked out and everything was you know, you know,
you guys all had you guys had it you know,
pretty easy because you had such an experienced crew. Yeah,
so for Enterprise, that that I.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Don't know that we completely understood that or appreciated just
how oiled that wheel was.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, and that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, you did,
because everybody was there to you know, if you needed something,
you went to Will Thoms to help. He'd help you
with whatever, or you know, anybody on the crew would help,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And they were so welcoming to this new you know,
bratish cast. It all just got their first big jobs
in town other than Scott. Yeah, and you know, I'm
sure a lot of actors can come on with a bit,
you know, No, you.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Guys are just all everybody was nice and eager and
just willing to work hard and you know and just
kind of be a part of it and not kind
of be standoffish because it's like, why do you want
to go sit in your trailers. It was funner to
hang out on set while we were doing yeah, playing
out or playing out in the alley at night, and
you know, it's more fun doing that stuff. I mean, Dominic,
(29:39):
I know we even got you out there throwing the
football at night.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It is Yeah. Yeah, I never really got the terrible arm.
Terrible really got it mate.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yeah, but you know that and just cha cho feeding
us all. That's what I think kept us all going.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
God bless him man, and I know.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
But no, he kept us fair and kept us going.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So blessed Connor. He used to scrub out the inside
of the bagel, didn't you with the dough? Uh, and
take out a few calories yeah yeah, and then just
drink and then just drink.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Six diet because we had pepsi, not coke, right, Pepsi's
a day and you know, ultimately gave me kidney stones.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
But nonetheless, I mean, I think what I take away
from Star Trek that I appreciate more about it is
like after that, no show ever seemed the same.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
I mean, Star Trek really was the greatest show to
work on its mate, so for all of us to
get to work on that, you know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Just saying that just a few days ago with Rick
and Brannon, and now that we're coming to the sixtieth
anniversary and you know, we're I're so honored and lucky
to have been a part of such an iconic, you know,
forever show that will never be right. Well that I
should know.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I can't Imaginewood doesn't shoot things like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
It doesn't.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
We're pretty much the last of that big group.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, it's an extraordinary thing. And we were, you know,
very fortunate there were there was just joyous years and
I mean I wish we'd ended up doing seven. It
was we were and we we really started to find
our legs with Manny, with new blood and new ideas
and no disrespect to the others, but it was really
(31:28):
it was too bad.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
And when many came on it, it really got going
well and it's just like it just broke my heart
that it's like, really, it's all we're going to do
is for It's it's like for the next three and.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, I know, actually the sadness of you if you,
if you will seeps in a little deeper these years later. Yeah,
when we when you think back to what we could
have gone on to do, not that we what we did,
did do didn't do was not good. It was because
it was but we were really our stride. And yeah,
(32:02):
most shows take about three to four years to really
get I'll even say though, and I've been so surprised.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Granted there have been episodes of enterprise that I've I've
seen over the years again, but I've never which is
what we're doing now, revisiting every episode chronologically, and.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Even out of the gate, you know, we were all
still trying to like sort of ease into our characters.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean, you guys had all, like we just talked
about you know, you've been a family for for years
and years and years at that point, and we're a
well oiled machine, and we were still trying to figure
that stuff out for sort of how we can sort
of ease into our own roles in.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
But I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
This episode several episodes we've watched in this first season,
I'm like, God, damn.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
This good episode. Good, that's good. It's really good stuff,
you know, I mean, it's got it all coming back
to it. You know, they said grat has Travis beaten up?
I thought Anthony played that beautifully. What happened to you?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
What do you care?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Especially? You know, I mean there's something to take into
consideration that I thought of. You know, he has that
whole Those scenes with Sagan, who is a little antagonistic
to Archer and Travis.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Stim terrify you. You wouldn't be surprised if I slithered
up this wall or turned my face inside out.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
He's very good. Yes, it was great, and I love
the the the knocking of heads there with Anthony as
an African American actor on this show basically dealing with
the same sort of prejudice that he's probably had to
deal with quite a lot in his life living uh
(34:01):
as an African American in America.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I'll admit when I first came here it wasn't easy
to see past my preconceptions about the Sulaban, but I did.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Why can't you? I mean that is a Is that
a real thing?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's what's I think
why those.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Sel that that that underplay in those scenes with Sagean
when he's saying, you know, why can't you trust me
from for who I am? As I'm trying to trust
you for who you are? And uh, I thought they
were very moving scenes and and I also think.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You know, not to jump ahead.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
But when I believe Mayweather says to Archer.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
On the Shuttle pot out, mm hmmm, they're going to
be okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Think they'll legend yea.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And he says, are they going to get out of
this subspace area and be able to flee?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Do I think they'll get out of ten dar in
space safely?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
But he doesn't answer the question.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
He says, do I think they'll be all right? Cut
to its end of the show. Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
You know, they tended to set up a lot of
episodes for you to kind of give the audience a
chance to make up their mind or take it how
they interpret things, which was always nice. You weren't always
force fed in the answer, you know, yeah, correct answer. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But it's a good scene, isn't it when he challenges
his preconceptions about who you think I am? And it
was I saw it in Anthony's eyes, and there was
a lot of you know, this backstory there, which and
god knows, we know Anthony has never worn that on
(35:59):
his sleep as a as a as a not really,
I mean, I Connor's looking at the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I'm saying that I have had conversations and only thinking
that I've had conversations with him that that addressed this
stuff very specifically.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah. Yeah, but he was always he's always been very
intent that that his his background, his begin beginnings. I'm
just about to start reading his book, God bless, I'm
really interested to read his entire story. But he was
intense that that, you know, coming from a fairly ordinary
(36:37):
family in Indiana was not going to hold him back,
and the fact that he was black was certainly not
going to hold him back, and power to him that
it did not. And yeah, it's a nice performance. So
uh and then we get to as as uh as
my new wife says, we get to Babesy Babesy Sulaban.
(37:01):
She goes me, I have to say, I love that
moment where I show up and I don't know if
you noticed, but I I when when the doors opened
to me, I am I have an American voice.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I understand you're looking for a way out of here.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So to to you know, mix and mats with the
rest of the Sulavan and uh and then all of
a sudden break into the Queen's English.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Don't you recognize some Travis If I'm going to blow
my own horn. I just loved the fact that, yeah,
when I when I show up at that door, it's like, yeah, no,
who is that? And it's certainly not Malcolm Yes, and
I I really you know, I doff my cap to that.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Well, Dom, here's a question for you.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
How was your experience wearing the makeup of the Suabar? Oh?
It was absolutely faciously.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You wouldn't treade it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Honestly, it's a long day, man. I mean, only the
lead actors got to complain about that crap and I'm
sure I yeah, I had my fair fair dose of complaints.
I think you had to eat. You could only eat
through the straw. I seem to remember. You couldn't really move,
(38:25):
you couldn't chew, because this was all going to crack.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yes, yeah, especially when you have lips on.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah quite Dug Jones stuff. But it was it was
right up there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You know, Fleck did not want to carry on doing
silk because he was he hated it.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Oh yes, it's you are all day in a in
a headspace that is just in your head. You don't
really want to interact with anyone. You can't really eat,
you can't you know, you can drink through a straw.
I mean I remember, you know, drinking power, you know
stuff you know sucked through a straw. But the worst
(39:06):
part of it all was the takeoff at night, and
it was three in the morning and it's been a
long ass day. And then the solvents to get that
crap off and they were God blessed Jeff and and
and a blanket, bread and were wonderful assets and very soothing.
(39:28):
But my pissed off Irish skin did not like it. Mate.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I mean, oh no, And that's you know. And the
thing is we tried to find everything we could that,
you know, and that's why we you know, after we
got everything off and you washed your face and we
set you down and put on that keels, that green cucumber, Yeah,
that's keeping the fridge. Just to try to do anything.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
That helped a lot.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
There was just you know, there's just a point of
there's some things we just couldn't get around back then.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And I'd come home and thank god, I was literally
ten minutes way then, but I'd come home and it'll
be now four in the morning and I'd look in
the mirror before going to bed, and I just looked
like a blotched you know. I mean's just like, oh Jesus,
and I'm like, in ten hours they're going to do
it again. Oh.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah. We thought Jeffrey Colmes was great because Jeffrey comes somehow.
I don't know if he really loved it, but he
really could deal with it. He could we ever had
that could just deal with it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, he's got good skin Jeffrey, and he's got quite
thick skin and he you know, I asked Michael Dawn,
I mean, how did you react to it? He said, well,
not good and he did it for you know, literally decades.
But yeah, I can see Jeff's skin is quite it's
it's it's not rhinoceros skin, but he's got good, solid skin.
(40:54):
He looks. I can I've seen that. I look at
him and go, yeah, your skin could take that mine.
My paws are open and I've got quite thin skin,
and god knows I'm dealing with. I've got another one
of those kind of hair. I've going in for another
fucking scampal. I've got so many cancerous spots on my
(41:15):
chest over the years from having been at the beach
surf and it's all coming back to haunt.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I do have to face something, though, because you have
given me a fair amount of grief lovingly about some
of the costumes that I had to wind up wearing
on our show.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
My Hessi and Sullivan outfit.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah but I will, I will say, I thought to
myself when you showed up and you have this, you're
almost like a.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Sulaban teenager.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Because yeah, but you've got this like hoodie, I haven't
long story.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it reminded me.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I thought initially thought I was like, you know the
character that, oh god, what's his name, Talia Sharer's son.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I was thinking more of one of the troop of
The Midsummer Night's Dream, you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
I was thinking of the youngest son in Fantastic Mister Fox,
Jason Jason Schwartzman is playing and and he has that
same kind of.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It was an interesting costume. Uh, I'm going to blow
my little horn again. I tell you what I loved
when I first come in and my economy of movement
to get down and get the the the emitters out
or whatever, the explosives out, it's all quite. It's it's quite,
I have to say. I was like, yeah, that's good.
There's no there was no no fluff there, there was
(42:50):
no fat on the let's we're moving this forward, you're
getting out. And I really like the s A S
sort of angle of that. And uh yeah, I did
actually rewind that scene with with with babesy look at
that baby, look at I could move like a young
person and being saved today, yes, and read saved today.
(43:15):
This was the beginning of me becoming the savior of
the day, for you know, the Captain would get into
a scrape and God bless Malcolm would come to the rescue.
And whether we're not without the Mako depending on the
episode or the season. Yeah, but I really enjoyed that.
(43:36):
That's I sort of elbowed that that was my became
my sort of you know part on the show. Really
the actually I really like it.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I agree, and and and I and I you know,
I know we're getting close.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
To the end here.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I do want to ask Jeff, you're up to a
lot right now.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Can you like sort of just give us a description
of what's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I know that your makeup you've moved on.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
I've moved on a little. I'm still going to do
a little makeup on our movie just because I like
doing it. But right now we're redoing the movie Reanimator
by HP Lovecraft, and so we're right in the middle
of producing getting that done. Our first raft comes out
(44:27):
in the next couple of days and then kind of
everything breaks loose and then we're going to start shooting
by May of next year. So yeah, we just you know,
it's one of those things when Hollywood started getting quiet,
I had to kind of pivot and rethink how I'm
gonna do things. And I've only been you know, I've
been in this industry over thirty years, and it's like,
(44:48):
this is what I know how to do. So I
was fortunate enough to find a partner in John Simmons
and and we started this production company, Woodlake Entertainment, and
we're just kind of off and running. Reanimators are first one.
Then we're moving into a project called Outlaw that we're
doing a three part documentary and then hopefully doing a
(45:09):
series off of that, and then we have several other
movies kind of lined up after that that we want
to do. But we're kind of making Alton, Illinois our
home base for everything, and we're hoping to shoot pretty much.
We would like to shoot everything here because we have
so many great locations. This town is just amazing and
the you know, of course tex incentives are great, but
(45:32):
you know, it's just a comfortable place to shoot, you know.
So hopefully we can get you and Dominic out here
to do an episode of your show and get you
in some.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Of the problems too. Yeah, and we can still act.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Oh no, that's what I was saying. I was telling
Conor that last night that you know, I'll get you
guys into you know, because I the thing I want
to do is just work with all my friends. So
the crews, the department heads I'm pulling in, they're just
all friends. So some of the people are gonna be
guys that you know and girls you know, and but
I just, you know, I just wanted to have fun
with my friends, friends that I trust, that I know
(46:09):
can do the work, you know, So you've got to
be called upon to act.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Sure that would be lovely. Well, it's been lovely seeing
you mate.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah. No, I've talked to Connor and Connor is in
one of my horrible little movies years ago. But I
haven't seen you for yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Twenty years. A concert We went for lunch somewhere. I
do remember that now. Now it's like big bugs the boy, yeah,
big boy, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
Yeah, no, it was. It was great. You guys were
the best that I had, you know, between you and
Connor and Anthony. Uh, it was just a pleasure every
day coming to work you know with you guys, and
nobody ever complained. It was nice to come and just
and the nice thing was just to be able to
hang out with you guys, Yeah, hang out in the trailers,
are on set, throw the ball around. I mean, that's
(47:00):
just that's the stuff I took away, Not necessarily the
work we did. I take away more of the friendships.
That's what lasts with me the longest. It's like, yeah,
we all had to go to work and do our
jobs and that, yeah, but but to be able to
be friends with everybody and still be friends with you
guys after all these years, and Dominic, even though I
haven't talked to you, like in twenty years, it's like
it's like.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Exactly, yes, yeah, the whole mark of a nice friendship.
You pick up the phone and it's you know.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
It's like just like yesterday. It is.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
It is like it's like it's like we're in the
trailer yesterday, mate. It really is.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
So no. I loved it, and I hope, you know,
we all just keep continuing along and hopefully you'll do
me some favors and come, you know, being.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Put phone calls for you and see if we can
yeah get that sorted. Yeah yeah hopefully yeah, Well we'll
we'll be back in the saddle soon then good good.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah, you know when you guys want to come and
do a show on the road, and well, have you
come here and I'll put you up so you can
look at the river, you know the river. Yeah, we'll
arrange that and we'll fly in town. Oh, thank you guys,
happy for your success. And I'll talk to you guys soon.
Thank you, thank you by m hm bote Bote
Speaker 2 (49:14):
One
The show has begun with Carr.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's the con same.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Trekky's and trekkers. Welcome
back to another watch party episode of the Dcon Chamber.
As always, I'm with my co host and best friend
dominic keating chief champ of Paul Yep In this episode,
you kind of look like you're in one.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They is episode twenty one Detained, written by Mike Sussman
and Philis Strong and directed by David Livingstone. It's unique
in that they were able to get Dean Stockwell, who
most of you all know was the cohort of Scott
(00:51):
on Quantum Leap, and I never got to work with him.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Did you get as you did? Yeah? Yeah we did.
I was there in the you know, the rescue scene.
So they'll never be able to resist what the Cabala
has to offer.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I haven't been here very long, but I seem to
know these people a hell of a lot better than
you do.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I've got to sit next to him a lot in
Video Village, and he liked me a lot because the
only thing he wanted to talk about was golf. Yeah,
which is I can talk of that until the cows
come home and we have with us.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I'm a special guest, among other things. At the time
we were working with Jeff Lewis our makeup artist. He
was the makeup artist for me, Dom and Anthony and
has gone on to produce, write, create all sorts of
(01:52):
projects and has a bunch of stuff in his Easter
basket right now. Jeff Lewis, thanks for being on here
with us.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yes, Jeff, it's been a lot time, brother.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I know, hours together.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Barely changed, mate, I mean, apart from the gray Beard. Honestly,
you look pretty much exactly the same, dude.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
I'm surprised we all do. Actually, Yeah, that's a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's twenty five years mate, Yeah, yeah, extraordinary.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
We're all looking to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I remember, I remember. I have such fond memories of
like late at night, you know, we bring out the
football and just toss it back and forth.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
In stage eighteen in that alleyway in the sort of
concourse there.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah, especially working on David Livingston's episode, because we know
those were all eighteen to twenty hour days, you know, yeah,
shot forever, you know, Bless.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I nearly thought it's a surprise him and ring him
up this morning and say, listen, David, if you're free,
do you want to come in and pitch on him?
But I just knew that it was going to be consternation.
He's going, oh I watch the episode. Oh yeah, oh no, right,
but you know what, let's we'll just leave it. We'll
leave Jeff can talk it through it. This must have
been just a gargantuan episode for the makeup trailer. I
(03:10):
mean the show opens with Anthony and the captain obviously
in prison somewhere, and they peek through the door, which
is oddly open, but nevertheless he uh and they see
nothing but suliban everywhere they look. I don't know how
(03:33):
many sulabans you had to do that that much. I
mean it was the call time.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
There's gotta be twenty of them, it's got to.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah, yeah, no, those those there was a few days
where we had a bunch of people and we usually
started on those about four four thirty in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I mean, you know, because how long hake to do
each one?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
I mean depending on who did it, like it was
you know Brad and I I mean we were kind
of kicking those guys out and our half, you know,
our and forty five minutes. Others that were kind of
like because I.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Mean the spaces were they had seven or eight pieces,
didn't they at least?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah? Yeah, But you know, the more we did it,
the faster we kind of got. Whereas the other people
we just brought in the day checkers we brought in,
it would take them two and a half hours because
they just weren't familiar. Like we were right and I
got it down. But I think even doing your makeup,
I think we even took I think I took about
two hours fifteen mins.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It being two to two and a half something. Yeah, yeah,
make up for Star Trek.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
By the time we met.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
H see, i'd started on Deep Space, so I did
Deep Space and Voyager, So by the time we got there,
I was probably on there five years, and then we
did four years of Enterprise, so I was there nine
years total.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
But yeah, good gig.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So I got I got through all the Boorgs and
all those guys before you, and then Sulamans were kind
of like the new the new thing we had for that.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
It was a lovely sort of oasis slash sanctuary. The
makeup trailer. I used to love it for the time
I spent in there, and a couple of times I
did have to do some extensive makeup. It was just
always very chill. Yeah, you created a lovely atmosphere in there,
and well that's.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
What was always nice about you guys, is like the makeup,
the hair department and the actors. We were all I think,
very good friends and very well. Made things a lot
easier there wasn't you could kind of just relax and
be yourself and our trailers and yeah, you know, and
then you know, once you got to set, it was
you kind of had to flip into a different person,
you know, person on there. But we just had a
(05:38):
little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But yeah, it was you know, the professionality had to
come through. And yeah, you know, especially you guys. Yeah,
how did.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
You How did you get into this business?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
After going to college? I just kind of thought this
was my Niche went to move to California after I
graduated and went to make up school and and had
met Mike Westmore about a year later, and he said, hey,
whenever you get into the Union, you can start working
at Star Trek the next day. And I thought, okay,
people say things a lot, and like three years later
(06:12):
I finally got all my union days in and he
literally called me that that day that I got into
the union that night and he said, okay, show up
tomorrow at four am.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Amazing. Impressed him with your early You must have shown
him some offerings, as it were.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
What he liked is I did everything. I did prosthetics,
I did beauty makeup. I did, you know, could do
all the hair work and stuff, and so in sculpt
and mold make you know, be a mold maker and stuff.
So he kind of just saw, you know, because we
kept everything in house, you know, we did We did
all of our own sculpting and mold making. It ran
our own pieces and stuff like that. So I think
(06:46):
I was just very versatile, you know, to him that
I could just do multiple things versus just doing one
kind of makeup or another.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Whenever I'd come in to sit down in your chair,
you say, ah, here comes mister handsome.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I had you were You guys were always pretty simple,
you know, because you guys kept in great shape and
you know, and all that. And I mean, granted, in
my career, I've worked with a lot of guys that
I had to do a lot of work on covering
eyeballs and stuff that you were relative, but they are,
(07:23):
you know, some of them.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, that doesn't look that good.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
The only other guy had George Clooney. He was he
was pretty darn good. Yeah. We'd go out drinking and
he'd get up the.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Chill guy, isn't he. I bumped into him once or
twice at the bar that he used to live over
there in Fryman Canyon, Canyon, and there's a bar there
on Ventura that he used to hang out, and he
was whenever you'd see him that he was always just
chatting with anyone that was chatting at the bar. And
he's a very cool dude.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Oh yeah, a good time. But no, you guys were
always just so good.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So look, Sulavan, you're there at four in the morning.
You get the last one in. And I'm sure I
was the one that played the most.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Oh no, no, because I think before your makeup, I
had to probably do one or two prior to that.
So and then we speed. Yeah, so you said there,
you know quite.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I didn't mind the putting on. I have to say
the putting on was rather lovely making. You always were
very gentle, even because I remember you were. You guys
were the first ones to get the special air brush. Yeah,
we never I don't think you'd ever had those before.
And that was a very chill, lovely sort of.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
You know thing to go through our normal makeup. Our
normal makeup time to get me on set was about
seven minutes.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah, and that was about it. And then you guys
want to often dominic, you usually did your hair and
the makeup trailer anyway, and I did, Yeah, skipt hair
trailer altogether most days pretty much.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I came. I came with my own paste.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
They touched you on set, and every.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Now and again I look at a shot at me
and go, yeah, I ever pasted there. It's a little
it's a little billy idol. So Anthony and h and
Scott wake up. They're they're in the what we find
out to be a detention centers. Yes, it's a very
(09:32):
poignant episode, particularly right now given the Tandarans are at
some in some sort of war with the Sulaban, but
particularly with the Cabal Suliban, who have genetically modified themselves
and can slither underdoors and do all sorts of nefarious things.
And they make no distinction. And we don't know that either.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't know who you are but you're wrong about us.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
Is that so we're not genetically enhanced and we're not
members of the Cabal?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, we don't. I mean, there's one incredibly poignant line
in the in the episode where all that seems to
matter to them is that this is one of the Suliband,
the father character Dank. I think it is. Well, it
seems to matter, is the way we look. I mean,
could that be any more you know, pertinence to the
(10:27):
days we're living in here in the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
That's what's chilling to hear that. But Star Trek has
always been like that. You look back to the original
series and it was very You could tell the stories
were very had had a political undertone of the time,
and it always kind of changed through whether it was
the original or Voyager or Deep Space. You always had
that that current undertone of politics in there.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yes, but not shoved down your throat.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I mean, but you could, yeah, I mean you could
tell who the Klingons were. You could tell who you know,
like what what Geene Roddenberry was trying to say, like
Cleanons kind of were that Russian kind of you know,
right force and stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And yeah, but it's holding up a mirror to reflect
upon what's happening.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what that's what Geene Roddenberry
started and everybody just kind of carried that through with
all the other shows.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So Colonel Grat played by the Dean Stockqwell, it's a
lovely perf it really is. And we were lucky to
get him. Oh yeah, God knows. I mean we're losing
them all now, aren't we yesterday? I mean it's yeah right,
we're coming to that point in our life where all
(11:45):
these you know, our heroes from adolescents are now passing
on bless.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Oh yeah, I mean I was, you know, I'm a
huge Sevesto Stolone fan, and to sit there and think, God,
he's almost eighty, him up, what he's like seventy eight,
seventy nine. It's all of our idols are going And
I was having a conversation with somebody saying, all of
our great music idols that we all grew up loving,
they're all in their eighties now, you know, and you know.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
The.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Unbelievably Keith Richards.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Or he'll live forever, you know, I take him out
of the category. He'll live.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, I mean, it's it's extraordinary. He's just pickled, as
it were, in a good way. So Colonel Grat says
to them, you know, it's a bit of a misunderstanding.
We thought you were genetically enhanced Sulaban posing as we
don't know what racy was, but apparently you're humans. We'll
get you on your way in three days.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
You'll have to appear before a magistrate on tender prime,
but the hearing should be brief. I'll explain that this
was just a innocent misunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So and it's like, you know, settle back, you know,
enjoy your here at the detention center.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
But I think that Grat Grat's being cagy because he
knows that information about the about Salon, yes, you know,
and and all of that story. He's being so cagey
and waiting to see if Archer will just Hawken and Archer.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Apparently two Suliban soldiers crash landed near a town called
Broken Bowl, Oklahoma. They were chasing a klingon of all things.
I was wondering if you could provide some insight into
what they were doing there.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And he's not gonna And of course, you know, Captain
Archer gets wind pretty quickly that what's going down here
at the detention center is not to his liking. And
once again.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Beautiful performance by Danik Is that Dennis Christopher?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yes, it is, isn't it. It's lovely, isn't it wonderful? Yeah,
we're not criminals, Captain, and we're not soldiers. The only
thing we're guilty of is being Sulabi. Yeah, him and
the child are terrific, but he is. But he stands
out and it's a really thoughtful and a moving performance.
(14:12):
And yeah, I mean I found some of it hard
to look up. Obviously. The inspiration for this, as we know,
was manzan Ar.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Have you ever heard of mans in Ar? Subcommander, I'm
not familiar with that planet. It's not a planet. It
was an internment camp on Earth during the Second World War.
Japanese American citizens were imprisoned there, even though they didn't
do anything wrong. The same thing's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Here and the detention centers that the US government saw
fit to put up for the Japanese internment after Pearl Harbor.
But my word, I mean, it couldn't be more, you know,
on the nose of what's happening today with ice and
(15:00):
and in various cities around our country right now.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
It's like they say, like life imitates art, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, no kidding and history stuff over and over and
over again.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yep, oh yeah, yeah, George k you know, I mean,
there's one of our original Star Trek guys and he
was in the internment camp. So yeah, I'm sure he's
very Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So we had a long chat with George at the
end of the last iteration of this show. He was
the last one we did, and we talked for literally
hours about his experience. Do you know, I didn't realize
I looked this up. They had ten thousand in term
you know, people in Man's in art and it's it's yeah,
(15:45):
it was a city. It was a city in the
middle of nowhere. I passed it when we whenever we
go to Mammoth to go snowboarding, you passed by Manzano
and the three ninety five North. It's right there. Yeah,
it's pretty yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
In the meantime, coming back to your profession at the time,
there were requirements for makeup, not only for the Sulabon,
but you know the Tendorans. You know, they had something
they everybody had a lot to do. It must have
been it must have been just a grab bag of
people just lining up at the makeup trailer.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah. Well, and that was the fun thing, you know,
back then when we were doing all of our stuff
is you know, as you guys remember, I mean, we'd
have one of our sound stages we weren't using, and
we would set it up as a kind of a
triage kind of where all of our extra makeup people
and extra hair people were, because we would have at
times an extra forty or fifty you know, makeup and
(16:43):
an extra forty or so hair. So I mean we
could fill up a sound stage with you know, extra
artists and usually that was big days. That's kind of
like what we had because we didn't have enough room
in the trailers or in the upstairs makeup lab and
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
How would it work in terms of so would you
you do so for instance, the first time the Sulaban
show up.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Michael Westmore was a huge part of this and the
designing element, but like so, you know, in terms of
development of highly make up actors, you have test runs,
would you how would this work? How would you do
this in your in the procedure of you you know,
(17:27):
knowing one, I know that you've got very little time
to get them ready, and you've got to know what
the things are that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
How did that? How did that work?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Well? It was funny because like when we I think
it was on the last day of Voyager because Deep
Space had already ended, because we're shooting both of those
at the same time. But Deep Space ended the year
before with its run, and then that next year when
Voyager was going down. On the last day of Voyager,
Michael came up to me and said, hey, you know,
(18:00):
we're doing Enterprise. I want you to, you know, be
on staff for that one. I said, okay, and he's like,
and we have these new characters called Suabon, so we
need to create something new, Like okay, So you know,
and back then we had very little time between that series.
I think we had a couple of months off two
and a half months off between that when we were
(18:20):
starting Enterprise, and he said, go out find something, research something,
figure out how I want something new. I want a
new skin. And so I left work that night for
a few hours and ended up going to the grocery
store brought back a cantelope press that into press that
in play and I said, Michael, here's our new skin,
(18:42):
and he's like, I love it. Let's go with it.
So over the next then two months, we just you know,
laid out thin then things of clay and I you know,
rolled them with the candle ope and we'd lay them
on the head forms and stuff and just developed the
whole you know, the whole look.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But that's they wouldn't name melon heads from there on,
wasn't they.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, because I brought that back. And then
and then Brad Looke went and he came up with
the coloring you know, that was the brown color yellow.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, how many layers of brush work would that
take to get that effect?
Speaker 4 (19:14):
That one was actually pretty easy because we just painted
the whole thing brown and then through and then just
dry brush or used a sponge and since the deep
layers would stay brown, we would hit all the top
parts right, you know, with the yellow. And that's what
kind of gave us that whole dimension to the makeup,
because you know, but that's that's how we how we
kind of came up with that makeup.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So it looked great, man, I have to say, And
you just you'd slightly do the hands just to sort
of you know, mix and match.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
The Yeah, well we came up with you know, because
even for the hands, we had appliances for your hands, remember.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well I don't remember that, we will.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I think. I think for you we had like ten
or twelve appliances. Because we had the head, the throat, nose,
I remember, it was like spears hands.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, I had to be malleable, right that everything had
to be able to be moved naturally, so you couldn't
put on a mask of someone were to express.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The face pieces were there must have been eight separate
face pieces or something like that.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Yeah, because there was like two eyebags.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The nose, it was a skull cap that went all
the way down. That was the main thing.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, And that was the thickest part. Everything else was real.
It was real thin, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean at four in the morning when they take
that off, I mean a waterfall of sweat, oh god,
running down my back.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It was just well that's why even on yours now,
you know, because that that kept came all the way
down and to the back of the neck. I always
left a little a little opening down there because your
costume would cover it to where at least the sweat
could get out of.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Your little breathing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yeah, it wasn't you know, piling up in there.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So they were in the episode. Let's have a look,
So grat won't let Enterprise talk to uh, to the Captain,
Archer and Travis. I'd like to speak with them.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I'm sorry, but regulations forbid that.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
There's nothing to be concerned about.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
They've been placed in comfortable quarters and they're perfectly safe.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The other part of it was I love that speech
that Danik gives that, you know, back before this all
went down, you know, much like the Japanese living as
Americans in America, we were you know, neighbors and friends
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Did you know that I was born in the same
town as one of the guards, did you cleare?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I was friends with his brother when we were growing up.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Got the lead guard, the lead guard, lead god.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
A neighbor and friend. And it just makes it all
the more sort of, you know, disgusting, how we can
find ourselves in these you know, social situations as it were.
Danik's wife requests a transfer to the camp so she
can be with her, and our son is refused.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
We were separated during the relocation she's in one of
the other camps.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Her transfer is rejected again. She tried to appeal their decision,
but as usual, they wouldn't missen. I mean it's yeah,
it's pretty grim stuff. And as you say, kN you know,
Garret sorry grat realizes he knows all about Broken Bow
(22:28):
and and our Enterprise trying to get Tiny Lista the
Klingon back to his home world and then coming into
contact with sarn And, and he wants you the lowdown
on what we know about the cabal and the engineered.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I wouldn't know, You'd have to talk to my superiors.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
You know, A great deal Enterprise took the Klingon back
to his homeworld, isn't that right?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
So that it's that level of constant NSI idea about
what what does our enemy? What does our perceived enemy
entail in terms of what they can do? And you know,
again it comes back to things we deal with now.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Things maybe slippery slope though, isn't it. You know, you know,
this is when you start just rounding people up and
if you don't look the right color or don't speak
with the right accent. Yeah, yeah, you know you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
There's a possibility that you are going to be uh
detained and interred. Yeah, only for a reason of the
way you look or where you're from.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, which is pretty grim. Yeah. I mean do you
want I mean who wants? I mean, do we want
to live in a society that that that that is
the you know, the stable of its intent? I mean
not really so so anyway, Yes, So they're they're threatened
with the detention of another sixty days if they don't
(24:03):
fess up about what we know about the cabal and
Sara Sarn and everything that happened in the Broken Bow episode.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I'd hate to see you miss that transport tomorrow morning.
The next one won't arrive for another sixty days.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Enterprise traces the signal because they can't get a hold
on it, so they find out where we are, or
where Archer and Travis's, and we start heading to the
camp I've isolated. They carry a frequency, you see it.
I'm tracing it now bearing one seven to eight mark twelve,
how far five point two light years? We learned that
(24:40):
three Sigler band tried to escape through the dockum Bab,
but they were killed unceremoniously. You mean escape, Oh a
couple of years ago, three men pried up in one
of the security grades. What happened?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Oh, they managed to get inside before they could reach
a vessel.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
All three of them were killed. And then I love
that bit where we just beamed down a communicator right
to once we find the co ordinates. I mean that
is classic Star Trek and I just love it when
this this little walkie talkie phone shows up and all
of a sudden he's in touch with Paul.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
What took you so long?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Are you all right? More or less?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Is there a moment dom because I've watched this now twice.
I watched it yesterday and I watched it today, and
maybe I missed something. Is there a moment where somebody says, well,
let's let's put read in the thing finishing as we speak.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Though I'm not completely happy with the nose.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
No, it's kept secrets, it's there's it's it's implied that
we've got a we're hatching a plan.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I met a Suliban who knows this camp inside and out.
We've been working on a plant, but we're going to
need your help.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, but I love the fact that the last thing
you see is you it's done as you move the
transport of thing, mister talker, it's done. Whatever was there
has disappeared, and given that we've just sent a communicator. Yeah,
(26:20):
the idea is that it's just you know, because I
mean Read's infamous line in the pilot is yeah, for
fruits and vegetables only, right, I'm not putting any of
mine molecules through that. How'd you get down here, transporter?
I think I'm finally getting used to it, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
On episodes like this, you know, what was your how
many hours were you working?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Oh? Oh, I mean our normal days were like sixteen
to eighteen hour days with Livingstone though directing. I mean
that could have easily been a twenty hour day from
the time we got there at the time we cleaned
everybody up.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You know, people recognize quite exactly what it's like to
be a part of a television production, you know, and
and the amount of time that you spend at work
and the amount of time that it's literally your life.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah. Yeah, it's an army too. It's literally an army.
And depending on who's you know, number one on the
cool seat, as it were, the general depending on who
that is and what they're like, that can all filter
down through the hierarchy of the Army and that set
(27:35):
can be really fun be you know it.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Which is true for some shows. But for Star Trek,
I mean, thank god Scott was such a great it
really was. And but for Star Trek because we brought
everybody over, I mean everybody that had worked on Deep
Space also worked on you know, Voyager, and then pretty
much the whole Voyager crew came over for Enterprise, so
(28:00):
we kind of had things established so things weren't really
going to change depending on who the the who the
star was number one, which was nice, you know, it
was kind of it's we were on this runaway train
as far as the crew, so like anybody could have
disappeared at any point in time and that train would
have kept running down the tracks, you know, so which
which also made it nice. You know, it was very
(28:23):
Things just ran smooth. But because everybody had been there
so long and been doing the same thing, and we
had everything worked out and everything was you know, you know,
you guys all had you guys had it you know,
pretty easy because you had such an experienced crew. Yeah,
so for Enterprise, that that I.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Don't know that we completely understood that or appreciated just
how oiled that wheel was.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah, and that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, you did,
because everybody was there to you know, if you needed something,
you went to Will Thoms to help. He'd help you
with whatever, or you know, anybody on the crew would help,
you know.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And they were so welcoming to this new you know,
bratish cast. It all just got their first big jobs
in town other than Scott. Yeah, and you know, I'm
sure a lot of actors can come on with a bit,
you know, No, you.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Guys are just all everybody was nice and eager and
just willing to work hard and you know and just
kind of be a part of it and not kind
of be standoffish because it's like, why do you want
to go sit in your trailers. It was funner to
hang out on set while we were doing yeah, playing
out or playing out in the alley at night, and
you know, it's more fun doing that stuff. I mean, Dominic,
(29:39):
I know we even got you out there throwing the
football at night.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It is Yeah. Yeah, I never really got the terrible arm.
Terrible really got it mate.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yeah, but you know that and just cha cho feeding
us all. That's what I think kept us all going.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
God bless him man, and I know.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
But no, he kept us fair and kept us going.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
So blessed Connor. He used to scrub out the inside
of the bagel, didn't you with the dough? Uh, and
take out a few calories yeah yeah, and then just
drink and then just drink.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Six diet because we had pepsi, not coke, right, Pepsi's
a day and you know, ultimately gave me kidney stones.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
But nonetheless, I mean, I think what I take away
from Star Trek that I appreciate more about it is
like after that, no show ever seemed the same.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
I mean, Star Trek really was the greatest show to
work on its mate, so for all of us to
get to work on that, you know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Just saying that just a few days ago with Rick
and Brannon, and now that we're coming to the sixtieth
anniversary and you know, we're I're so honored and lucky
to have been a part of such an iconic, you know,
forever show that will never be right. Well that I
should know.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
I can't Imaginewood doesn't shoot things like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
It doesn't.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
We're pretty much the last of that big group.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, it's an extraordinary thing. And we were, you know,
very fortunate there were there was just joyous years and
I mean I wish we'd ended up doing seven. It
was we were and we we really started to find
our legs with Manny, with new blood and new ideas
and no disrespect to the others, but it was really
(31:28):
it was too bad.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
And when many came on it, it really got going
well and it's just like it just broke my heart
that it's like, really, it's all we're going to do
is for It's it's like for the next three and.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know, I know, actually the sadness of you if you,
if you will seeps in a little deeper these years later. Yeah,
when we when you think back to what we could
have gone on to do, not that we what we did,
did do didn't do was not good. It was because
it was but we were really our stride. And yeah,
(32:02):
most shows take about three to four years to really
get I'll even say though, and I've been so surprised.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Granted there have been episodes of enterprise that I've I've
seen over the years again, but I've never which is
what we're doing now, revisiting every episode chronologically, and.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Even out of the gate, you know, we were all
still trying to like sort of ease into our characters.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I mean, you guys had all, like we just talked
about you know, you've been a family for for years
and years and years at that point, and we're a
well oiled machine, and we were still trying to figure
that stuff out for sort of how we can sort
of ease into our own roles in.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
But I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
This episode several episodes we've watched in this first season,
I'm like, God, damn.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
This good episode. Good, that's good. It's really good stuff,
you know, I mean, it's got it all coming back
to it. You know, they said grat has Travis beaten up?
I thought Anthony played that beautifully. What happened to you?
Speaker 4 (33:13):
What do you care?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Especially? You know, I mean there's something to take into
consideration that I thought of. You know, he has that
whole Those scenes with Sagan, who is a little antagonistic
to Archer and Travis.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Stim terrify you. You wouldn't be surprised if I slithered
up this wall or turned my face inside out.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
He's very good. Yes, it was great, and I love
the the the knocking of heads there with Anthony as
an African American actor on this show basically dealing with
the same sort of prejudice that he's probably had to
deal with quite a lot in his life living uh
(34:01):
as an African American in America.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I'll admit when I first came here it wasn't easy
to see past my preconceptions about the Sulaban, but I did.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Why can't you? I mean that is a Is that
a real thing?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's what's I think
why those.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Sel that that that underplay in those scenes with Sagean
when he's saying, you know, why can't you trust me
from for who I am? As I'm trying to trust
you for who you are? And uh, I thought they
were very moving scenes and and I also think.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You know, not to jump ahead.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
But when I believe Mayweather says to Archer.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
On the Shuttle pot out, mm hmmm, they're going to
be okay, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Think they'll legend yea.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
And he says, are they going to get out of
this subspace area and be able to flee?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Do I think they'll get out of ten dar in
space safely?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
But he doesn't answer the question.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
He says, do I think they'll be all right? Cut
to its end of the show. Yeah, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
You know, they tended to set up a lot of
episodes for you to kind of give the audience a
chance to make up their mind or take it how
they interpret things, which was always nice. You weren't always
force fed in the answer, you know, yeah, correct answer. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
But it's a good scene, isn't it when he challenges
his preconceptions about who you think I am? And it
was I saw it in Anthony's eyes, and there was
a lot of you know, this backstory there, which and
god knows, we know Anthony has never worn that on
(35:59):
his sleep as a as a as a not really,
I mean, I Connor's looking at the ceiling.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I'm saying that I have had conversations and only thinking
that I've had conversations with him that that addressed this
stuff very specifically.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah. Yeah, but he was always he's always been very
intent that that his his background, his begin beginnings. I'm
just about to start reading his book, God bless, I'm
really interested to read his entire story. But he was
intense that that, you know, coming from a fairly ordinary
(36:37):
family in Indiana was not going to hold him back,
and the fact that he was black was certainly not
going to hold him back, and power to him that
it did not. And yeah, it's a nice performance. So
uh and then we get to as as uh as
my new wife says, we get to Babesy Babesy Sulaban.
(37:01):
She goes me, I have to say, I love that
moment where I show up and I don't know if
you noticed, but I I when when the doors opened
to me, I am I have an American voice.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I understand you're looking for a way out of here.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So to to you know, mix and mats with the
rest of the Sulavan and uh and then all of
a sudden break into the Queen's English.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
Who are you?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Don't you recognize some Travis If I'm going to blow
my own horn. I just loved the fact that, yeah,
when I when I show up at that door, it's like, yeah, no,
who is that? And it's certainly not Malcolm Yes, and
I I really you know, I doff my cap to that.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Well, Dom, here's a question for you.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
How was your experience wearing the makeup of the Suabar? Oh?
It was absolutely faciously.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
You wouldn't treade it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Honestly, it's a long day, man. I mean, only the
lead actors got to complain about that crap and I'm
sure I yeah, I had my fair fair dose of complaints.
I think you had to eat. You could only eat
through the straw. I seem to remember. You couldn't really move,
(38:25):
you couldn't chew, because this was all going to crack.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Yes, yeah, especially when you have lips on.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah quite Dug Jones stuff. But it was it was
right up there.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
You know, Fleck did not want to carry on doing
silk because he was he hated it.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Oh yes, it's you are all day in a in
a headspace that is just in your head. You don't
really want to interact with anyone. You can't really eat,
you can't you know, you can drink through a straw.
I mean I remember, you know, drinking power, you know
stuff you know sucked through a straw. But the worst
(39:06):
part of it all was the takeoff at night, and
it was three in the morning and it's been a
long ass day. And then the solvents to get that
crap off and they were God blessed Jeff and and
and a blanket, bread and were wonderful assets and very soothing.
(39:28):
But my pissed off Irish skin did not like it. Mate.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I mean, oh no, And that's you know. And the
thing is we tried to find everything we could that,
you know, and that's why we you know, after we
got everything off and you washed your face and we
set you down and put on that keels, that green cucumber, Yeah,
that's keeping the fridge. Just to try to do anything.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
That helped a lot.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
There was just you know, there's just a point of
there's some things we just couldn't get around back then.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And I'd come home and thank god, I was literally
ten minutes way then, but I'd come home and it'll
be now four in the morning and I'd look in
the mirror before going to bed, and I just looked
like a blotched you know. I mean's just like, oh Jesus,
and I'm like, in ten hours they're going to do
it again. Oh.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah. We thought Jeffrey Colmes was great because Jeffrey comes somehow.
I don't know if he really loved it, but he
really could deal with it. He could we ever had
that could just deal with it.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, he's got good skin Jeffrey, and he's got quite
thick skin and he you know, I asked Michael Dawn,
I mean, how did you react to it? He said, well,
not good and he did it for you know, literally decades.
But yeah, I can see Jeff's skin is quite it's
it's it's not rhinoceros skin, but he's got good, solid skin.
(40:54):
He looks. I can I've seen that. I look at
him and go, yeah, your skin could take that mine.
My paws are open and I've got quite thin skin,
and god knows I'm dealing with. I've got another one
of those kind of hair. I've going in for another
fucking scampal. I've got so many cancerous spots on my
(41:15):
chest over the years from having been at the beach
surf and it's all coming back to haunt.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
I do have to face something, though, because you have
given me a fair amount of grief lovingly about some
of the costumes that I had to wind up wearing
on our show.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
My Hessi and Sullivan outfit.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah but I will, I will say, I thought to
myself when you showed up and you have this, you're
almost like a.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Sulaban teenager.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Because yeah, but you've got this like hoodie, I haven't
long story.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it reminded me.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I thought initially thought I was like, you know the
character that, oh god, what's his name, Talia Sharer's son.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I was thinking more of one of the troop of
The Midsummer Night's Dream, you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
I was thinking of the youngest son in Fantastic Mister Fox,
Jason Jason Schwartzman is playing and and he has that
same kind of.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
It was an interesting costume. Uh, I'm going to blow
my little horn again. I tell you what I loved
when I first come in and my economy of movement
to get down and get the the the emitters out
or whatever, the explosives out, it's all quite. It's it's quite,
I have to say. I was like, yeah, that's good.
There's no there was no no fluff there, there was
(42:50):
no fat on the let's we're moving this forward, you're
getting out. And I really like the s A S
sort of angle of that. And uh yeah, I did
actually rewind that scene with with with babesy look at
that baby, look at I could move like a young
person and being saved today, yes, and read saved today.
(43:15):
This was the beginning of me becoming the savior of
the day, for you know, the Captain would get into
a scrape and God bless Malcolm would come to the rescue.
And whether we're not without the Mako depending on the
episode or the season. Yeah, but I really enjoyed that.
(43:36):
That's I sort of elbowed that that was my became
my sort of you know part on the show. Really
the actually I really like it.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
I agree, and and and I and I you know,
I know we're getting close.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
To the end here.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
I do want to ask Jeff, you're up to a
lot right now.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Can you like sort of just give us a description
of what's happening right now.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I know that your makeup you've moved on.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
I've moved on a little. I'm still going to do
a little makeup on our movie just because I like
doing it. But right now we're redoing the movie Reanimator
by HP Lovecraft, and so we're right in the middle
of producing getting that done. Our first raft comes out
(44:27):
in the next couple of days and then kind of
everything breaks loose and then we're going to start shooting
by May of next year. So yeah, we just you know,
it's one of those things when Hollywood started getting quiet,
I had to kind of pivot and rethink how I'm
gonna do things. And I've only been you know, I've
been in this industry over thirty years, and it's like,
(44:48):
this is what I know how to do. So I
was fortunate enough to find a partner in John Simmons
and and we started this production company, Woodlake Entertainment, and
we're just kind of off and running. Reanimators are first one.
Then we're moving into a project called Outlaw that we're
doing a three part documentary and then hopefully doing a
(45:09):
series off of that, and then we have several other
movies kind of lined up after that that we want
to do. But we're kind of making Alton, Illinois our
home base for everything, and we're hoping to shoot pretty much.
We would like to shoot everything here because we have
so many great locations. This town is just amazing and
the you know, of course tex incentives are great, but
(45:32):
you know, it's just a comfortable place to shoot, you know.
So hopefully we can get you and Dominic out here
to do an episode of your show and get you
in some.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Of the problems too. Yeah, and we can still act.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Oh no, that's what I was saying. I was telling
Conor that last night that you know, I'll get you
guys into you know, because I the thing I want
to do is just work with all my friends. So
the crews, the department heads I'm pulling in, they're just
all friends. So some of the people are gonna be
guys that you know and girls you know, and but
I just, you know, I just wanted to have fun
with my friends, friends that I trust, that I know
(46:09):
can do the work, you know, So you've got to
be called upon to act.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Sure that would be lovely. Well, it's been lovely seeing
you mate.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yeah. No, I've talked to Connor and Connor is in
one of my horrible little movies years ago. But I
haven't seen you for yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Twenty years. A concert We went for lunch somewhere. I
do remember that now. Now it's like big bugs the boy, yeah,
big boy, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
Yeah, no, it was. It was great. You guys were
the best that I had, you know, between you and
Connor and Anthony. Uh, it was just a pleasure every
day coming to work you know with you guys, and
nobody ever complained. It was nice to come and just
and the nice thing was just to be able to
hang out with you guys, Yeah, hang out in the trailers,
are on set, throw the ball around. I mean, that's
(47:00):
just that's the stuff I took away, Not necessarily the
work we did. I take away more of the friendships.
That's what lasts with me the longest. It's like, yeah,
we all had to go to work and do our
jobs and that, yeah, but but to be able to
be friends with everybody and still be friends with you
guys after all these years, and Dominic, even though I
haven't talked to you, like in twenty years, it's like
it's like.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Exactly, yes, yeah, the whole mark of a nice friendship.
You pick up the phone and it's you know.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
It's like just like yesterday. It is.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
It is like it's like it's like we're in the
trailer yesterday, mate. It really is.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
So no. I loved it, and I hope, you know,
we all just keep continuing along and hopefully you'll do
me some favors and come, you know, being.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Put phone calls for you and see if we can
yeah get that sorted. Yeah yeah hopefully yeah, Well we'll
we'll be back in the saddle soon then good good.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah, you know when you guys want to come and
do a show on the road, and well, have you
come here and I'll put you up so you can
look at the river, you know the river. Yeah, we'll
arrange that and we'll fly in town. Oh, thank you guys,
happy for your success. And I'll talk to you guys soon.
Thank you, thank you by m hm bote Bote
Speaker 2 (49:14):
One
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!