What We

Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
Hey, guys, what's up?I I I played the wrong intro.
I have a separate a special theOnes who Live intro, and I played
the regular Darrel like some podcast intro. Sorry about that. You'll be like,
what is there in daryld Blicks anepisode to watch? Yeah? How

(00:36):
are you done? I'm doing good. Actually I'm doing a lot better and
I have been thank you. I'mon the road recovery. You know,
I've got some movement in my room. I'm not. I can reach my
hands out and not touch a box, which is amazing, God, good
good, I'm I'm It's so funnybecause I am. I I almost.

(01:00):
I actually almost tweeted about this lastnight. I was, I, so,
I have therapy on Friday or usuallyI'm sorry, usually on Saturdays,
but I had therapy last night insteadbecause my husband can drive me today.
And I was like, I almosttweeted this last night, and I'm like
sitting in my therapist's office after havingdone the notes for this episode, wondering

(01:22):
how much of my therapy session I'mgonna end up talking about how much this
episode traumatized the same give pull ofthe bill, Yes exactly, I had
to. I felt like it wasnecessary for me to for me to put

(01:44):
my my uh my middle name inall caps today because yeah, it's not
kind of an episode. Yeah,it's well, you know, it's funny
because normally I would never say this. There's somebody and you know who I'm
talking about, but there's somebody inthe cast who whose character I always couldn't

(02:07):
stand and part of the reason wasbecause of their acting. And I won't
I won't say who it was.But with Chandler Riggs, I can be
a little more honest because he's talkedabout it himself. Yes, he is
somebody who when when he was whenhe was doing a lot, when he

(02:28):
was on screen a lot, hewas actually pretty good. Yeah. Yeah,
his acting would suffer when he wasaway too much, so, you
know, because of because his actingwas never completely consistent. It's not like
I ever got that much satisfaction outof watching Carl. I always appreciated his

(02:51):
character because he had such a goodheart and he was kind of like the
moral compass. But his death iswhat made me quit the show. Ye
until they announced that they're bringing ina different showrunner, and then I was
like, okay, well I'll giveit a shot again. But I mean,
as far as I'm concerned, I'vealways felt like he was the most

(03:14):
popular, popular, the most importantcharacter in the show. Absolutely, I
agree. Yeah, yeah, Ithink killing him a lot of people tuned
die after Glenn was killed, butI understand the point of that. It
was in the you know, thecomics and stuff. I think killing Carl
was the biggest mispeaque the show evermade. Yeah, it absolutely was.

(03:36):
And I mean Carl has has beenreally like the engine of the show for
the entire series. I mean hewas like, yeah, Rick has has
shown in Judith, but it's notthe same because they weren't there since day
one exactly. Yeah, and losingCarl just automatically makes you care less about

(03:59):
the main character. Yeah. Andit was the first season, you know,
the whole the whole start of itwas Rick trying to find Carl and
Laurie and it made it all.It was all about them doing it for
Carol, doing everything for Carl becauseyou know, and Rick wanted to be
the person he was for Carol,and that we see that through, you

(04:23):
know, when Carl starts to emulatehim or whatever. So without him,
it's like, obviously we know whyhe's doing it now he's got Judith and
Argie. We'll get to that later. But as you say, it's not
the same because Carl was part ofit from the start, and Carl remembers
the life before this. But whereJudith and Argye are children of the apocalypse,

(04:46):
they don't remember life before that,Where's Carol does, which makes him
a different character. He's the personwho straddles the older than you, And
so without him, yes, itlost its dry. I think, yeah,
it really did. It really did. And and also like I and

(05:10):
it's funny too because I when whenhe died, it wasn't even Rick that
I was that I was terrified tosee. I was like this, oh
yeah, this is gonna be sad. But I'm like, I don't want
to see him shown. I'm gonnalose it. I'm gonna lose it.
Yeah, because I loved those twotogether so much, relationship, they were
just they were so great. BeforeRick and Machone, it was Machane and

(05:34):
Carl. It was like she fellin love. I think she did.
I say this, but I wrong. It's like she fell in love with
Carl as a you know, motherson kind relationship. And then Rick came
a well after and I think thatI loved, you know, the cold
the connection they have with comics andjust joking with each other, and you'll

(05:56):
lose that, you know. Andthat's something in the second episode where we
saw Micheon joking with nat And andBailey Needen, I was like, yeah,
we missed that because Michean was funnywhen she was with Carl and again
Live with Morgan. She had thesereally funny little lines, and I just
feel like without Carl, it just, you know, she lost that side

(06:18):
of Micheon. Yeah. It's likeI, you know, I always go
back to when I think about therelationship, I always go back to the
the episode, you know, withthe I forgot the name of it after
I think it was after the theepisode with with Brick and Carl, after

(06:41):
the prison falls and and they findthe house and at the end shows up.
Yeah, and Brick looks out thepeople and and and laughs and and
uh because he's so happy to seeMichelle, and he looks at Carl and
says, it's for you. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. But
yeah, so the all of thethe Carl references in this just oh my

(07:05):
god, it's I've got my tissuesbecause I already know, like I'm already
getting teary eyed just like thinking aboutit. But it's like, in a
way, I think it's I thinkit's almost kind of comical because it's like
we're it was so the whole Carlthing was just so heartbreaking, and but

(07:31):
what's funny about it is I feellike it's the writing was so good that
I feel like this was the firsttime that we that we were given a
proper way to grieve for Carl.Totally agreed that's and I think that's as

(07:58):
everybody knows, this episode is writtenby Deni and Kelly and I were saying
before we came on here how muchwe wish den I had written all the
dialogue for all the episodes before,because that's what I've always wanted from the
show and was missing. Are thesereal conversations, and they're painful and they're

(08:20):
harsh truth sometimes, but you feellike you're really getting to the heart of
the matter. And so often withinThe Walking Dead it was skirted around with
these vague phrases and obtuse references.I'm not where I am, but I
was where I am, and youknow, weird gimp will speak and I

(08:43):
think Deny just cuts through all thebullshit, you know, and she really
gives us conversation that that real peoplehave, and people who are in pain
and are grieving we have. There'sstill a couple of bits where I was
like, well, that's a biggimpoli, but excuse me. Ninety nine
percent of it is excellent and somuch better than anything in the main show.

(09:09):
Yeah. Yeah, And obviously thisis a very deriise of playwright,
and this is a very play lookingepisode. It's too hander. They're largely
in one room, you know,you can see it on a stage.
Yeah, and that gives it thatroom and that breathing space to just be

(09:35):
able to talk about the stuff thatneeds to be talked about and not constantly
going oh if we do this,we need to do this, and what
if we get this, we canyou know, in strategizing and all this.
No, no, no, let'sjust have one to one, face
to face talking about the stuff that'simportant and not what's an immediate threat.
And I mean she did throw ina great there is a great Walker fight

(09:58):
and I like this episode. Yes, they're talking about the CRM is their
big threat, and that's obviously what'shanging over them. But the immediate threat
there is walkers. Like it was, goes back to the start, This
is what you should be afraid of, because if you know Micheon doesn't I
said she doesn't have a weapon,then you're stuck. You can't take on

(10:20):
forty walkers. Yeah, so it'snice to get back to that. Yeah,
for sure. And I'm i'm asI'm grabbing my eyes from my curl
tears. I And you know,I want to say, I absolutely hate
these these titles. This episode iscalled what We The next episode is called

(10:45):
Become because there was an episode calledif Misheon's last episode was called what We
Become. I absolutely hate it,But at the same time, I appreciate
the reference. Ye like Rick's firstepisode, Mission's last episode, you know,
I think that's kind of cool.And and I already talked about my

(11:05):
hatred for Michon's last episode, soI will get into that again. Yes,
we don't need to go over them, but uh but yeah, so
but anyway, yeah, let's uh, let's go ahead and get into it.
Yeah did you you didn't reader youdidn't leave the description of the episode?

(11:28):
Oh right, I yeah, you'reright, I did not, So
it's It had a very very shortsynopsis. Rick and Machone tried to find
the love they had. Writer wasDenai Garira, she wrote the episode,
and director was Michael Slopis. AndI I mentioned there's some consulting producer bert

(11:50):
and Bertie, who are a pairof writer director's producers. They're they've worked
on the Marvel CD Hawkeye recently andA Flag Means Death, which one of
my favorite shows counseled. So I'massuming that that that I has worked with
them and knows them, and theconsulted on aspects of this. I don't

(12:13):
know which aspects, but I wouldlove to know. I love to hear
all that kind of stuff. Butyes, so we'll get into one.
Actually, I do want to sayjust one thing before you start. So
the episode opens with ty Yela ribbonaround the field of tree, which I
which I thought was cool because it'sso I'm not sure which came first,

(12:37):
the song or the there So inthe seventies there started the trend of people
putting yellow ribbons around trees if tolike honor a loved one who was either

(13:01):
in jail or in the military thatcouldn't be home. Yeah, and I
don't know if that came if thesong kind of made that a trend,
or if that came first and thenthe song came. But I didn't to
say why. I'm just gonna lookit up and let you know. Oh,
there you go. Yeah, nineteenthcentury is from Yeah. It started

(13:24):
with women wearing bows in there,yellow bows in there. Yeah, who
were a yellow ribbon as the thing, and then it was doing the Vietna
no more. It became popular.So yeah, yeah, so I thought
that was I thought that was kindof interesting, you know, because Rick
has been away and and you know, and Micheone kind of like we learned

(13:45):
that she never really gave up onhim, which which was never explicitly stated.
Like as far as I knew,we were supposed to think that Micheone
had accepted that he was dead andthey were just when she was out there
with Darryl, they were looking fora boy. That's is that what you
always felt too? Yeah? Totally. Yeah, So it is interesting to

(14:07):
here. And also I think,you know, the tie yellow ribbon and
the lyric a bit let me knowif you still want me, and that's
actually, you know, almost aline that Michaud says, is you know,
do you even still love me?In this she's tygy yellow ribbon around
for Rick because she wants she stillbelieves there's life. But in the other
way, it's also flipped that shedoesn't know if he still loves her because

(14:31):
he's so drastically changed. And obviouslythat is exactly what happens in war.
These men were coming home from warcompletely different people with PTSD and you didn't
know that was what it was calledin those days, and just different.
They've just had life experiences that theirpartner has not, and so that uncertainty

(14:52):
form both parties. You know,are you who you once were? And
do you still want me now I'ma different person? And that's basically the
plot of this episode. You know, yeah, is then both questioning who
they are aren't should they be together? They? Of course they love each
other. We know they still loveeach other, but is that enough?

(15:15):
Is that it's going to work?You know? Yeah, for sure.
So we see Rick and ma shownand this apparently I saw I think it
was an interview with Deny or itmight have been Andrew Lincoln that they wanted
to show that they were above water, but they didn't have the budget.
We literally just see them two handsclimbing up a rock and that's the idea.

(15:39):
Yes, they're well into water.Now they're climbing up a click.
Oh my gosh, that's funny.They spent too much money on helicopters.
Nothing else mattered. It's like,you know, it's like, it's like
how they spent in the main show. They spent all their CGI budget and
Shiva, so we got the deerthat was the size of the Ferris wheale

(16:03):
and just planted in the middle ofthe screen. It was a cat and
paste job, clearly. Yes,So Rickon and Michon have folle at the
helicopter into water. They climb outand they find a way to this building
and they get inside somehow we don'tsee, and they end up in this

(16:27):
apartment where there is a rumba runningaround. It isn't it a pristine,
very futuristic, clean, you knowlooking apartment And they break in. They
stand there facing each other, breathless, and they Sean says, we needed
a time out, which I lovelike. I like that he's a mom

(16:48):
of like two young kids. Yeah, time out, we need a time
out. And there's a computer voicetelling them that you're the temperature where we
reached in ten minut it and they'relike, well, what is this place?
Rick? Rick is wanting to knowthat, but is not, you
know, quite so She's concentrating onRick. In the in the fall,

(17:11):
Rick lost his PRB, which Ickybardical PBS is P's pr B, but
Micheon still has hers and Rick wantsit. But you know, Shawn is
a gy. She walks around,checks things out, immediately starts stripping off
to put on dry clothes, andRick cannot help himself but cast a glance

(17:33):
and I love the way the cameratraveled up her legs, you know,
as Rick's eyes would look up andand it's not just a lustful thing,
it's also like, what's happened toher since he's left? Because we get
a quick glance of the X car, which we you know about. Obviously
Rick doesn't, and he she Seanknows he wants the bacon and saying I

(18:00):
know what they do, and youwant to contact them because they'd said,
you know, I think Thorn saidin the last episode, if there's a
helicopter within three hundred miles, theywill find you. So Rick is obsessed
with this idea. He wants tocall them, get them back on track
back with the Seattle Michean starts lookingat the books and she's just totally ignoring

(18:23):
his his atmosphere that he's giving off. And she sees his book and she's
like, oh, I used tohave this. I love this, jud
just love it. It was Ramonathe Pest. Oh that I couldn't see
what it was. I don't knowthat is that an American book? Because
I don't. I don't know itat all. Yeah, Ramona Ramona Quinby.

(18:44):
There was a series of books,the Ramona Quinby Books. Ramona Quinby
was obviously the main character. Idon't know how many books there were,
but Ramona the Pest is is isactually kind of the one that I think
comes to most people's minds and theythink of the Ramona Quimby books and uh,
like I remember them from when Iwas in grade school. But what

(19:06):
was so funny about this is likeit's this one kid's book in the middle
of a bunch of computer books.Yeah, there's a cold computer set up
that's active, so it shows like, you know, there's still something was
doing programs of some kind, doingsome kind of of analysis or something.
So yeah, there's like El forDummies, and there's like, yeah,

(19:30):
just all of these computer books andthen a Ramona Quimby. There may have
been a child here at some point, so it's the aim that sort of
ten year olds, is that kindof the yeah kind of yeah? Yeah,
So it's you know, she says, you know, Judus would love
this, and she started talking abouther own life and saying, oh,
I wanted to be a writer,then I want to be a computer scientists,

(19:52):
and then I was going to bein that history and she's she says
to Rick, you know that noteyou left me on the boat, Oh
that was poetry, and she isdripping with sarcasm. Yeah, I love
how much. Michau just calls himout the whole thing in this episode,
and she says, you know,maybe you should write another note for your

(20:15):
children, tell them how I cameto find you and you sent me away
and you're not coming. And Rick'slike children. Yeah. And so here's
the moment everybody's been waiting for whenMichaud does tell him about Argie and she

(20:37):
says his name is Rick. He'salmost eight, so we've got the timeline
again, and Ricky just replies withgive me PRB and I really like the
fact that they dealt with it thisway because I saw a lot of fans
speculating about, wait until Rick hearsabout Argie, it's all going to be

(20:59):
different. Then when he hears aboutRJ, he's going to go full red,
Michelle te Rick. When he hearsabout RJ, he's going to be
on that first helicopter. And Iwas like, how offensive would that be
to Judas He's not going home forJudas, He's not going home for Mishaun.
But hey, he hears he hasa son, and oh, yes,
of course I'll go. It's like, no, that's so misogynistic if

(21:23):
the idea that learning he has ason is better than knowing he has a
daughter waiting for him. So Iwas really glad they didn't do what people
expected them to do or hoped theywould do, and they would be like,
it would be less meaningful to you, I mean, because it's it
would take away so much from histrauma, Like he responded that way so

(21:48):
quickly because it just hearing he hada son back home in addition to having
a daughter just made him what tringto get out of there even more.
Yeah, exactly because he's thinking,hang on, we've got an even younger
son, even younger child who needshis mother, and you're here. Yeah,

(22:15):
yeah, and he's just he's notgonna just I mean, this is
a man who's traumatized and is scaredto death of the CRM. He's not
just going to snap out of that. That's not how trauma works, exactly.
Nose really tickling. Yeah. Hehe is not somebody who is just
I mean, we have seen himflip. But what the CRM has done

(22:38):
to him has has has gone sodeep and has gone on so long.
He's not just going to go,oh well, forget about it. Because
he finds out he has a son, you know, And and I wish
people had had, you know,thought that that idea, that that that
it's not going to change what's goingon. Knowing he has a son,

(22:59):
because he already knows he has adaughter, and that didn't do anything.
Knowing that Judith is out there,didn't say to him, oh well,
I'm going to give all this up. That he always was he was trying
to get home, but anyway hetried. He's desperate to get the PRB
and he's telling Mi Shaun that Itried absolutely everything to get back and I

(23:22):
but and I told that, Itold you, don't show them who you
are. And this is the thingI really like about this episode is they
are both wrong and they're both right. Yeah, yeah, I like that.
It's not like one bad guy andone good guy, you know,
because Michauon was wrong to just go, I'm showing them that, you know,

(23:44):
she couldn't help herself, and sheshowed she was the amazing leader she
is and it ruined everything she record. She just couldn't stop herself and that
was like, oh, He's like, that was all I asked of you,
you know, and she couldn't doit. So she was wrong there.

(24:06):
But obviously also Rick is wrong becausehe just wants to send her away
and they they have this argument.They start arguing, and she's sewing to
say, how can we just letthe CRM went you know, everything we
know they do. I she hasseen it, you know, with Na

(24:26):
and then all his people. AndRick's like, yeah, but they've already
won. I've you know, I'velost my hand and when when and he
met Branch and jadis here and thatand shows like oh, jadis brought you
here? And He's like, yeah, but that you it doesn't matter.
That's in the past essentially, buthe tells finally tells micheau and what you

(24:49):
should have told her last episode,which is that if Jadis, if they
leave, Jadis will go to Alexandriaand kill everyone who live and even if
she personally doesn't, if they killher, then she has left information that
means to see how embell do it, and so there's just no way that

(25:11):
they can. He can see aroundit. He just wants Michelle Mascheon to
be safe and so she can besafe and protect Judith and Rick, but
Rick's just not having every Macheon keepscoming up with well, what if we
do this? And what we dothat? And he's like no, no,
no, And Micheauan says, don'tyou think that together we could do

(25:33):
anything? Because he says, youknow, that's why Jadea saw them as
a threat, because together we cando anything, and and Michean says,
because I believe it. And shesays to him, and it is heartbreaking
when she says, do you stilllove me? Because she just doesn't know
and you know, he courses doesit, always does. So she gives

(25:56):
him the PRB and just then Rickcleotes out the window and sees that their
helicopter has crashed into the other Idon't know if it's the other side of
the building or a parallel building.I don't know this crashed, and I
think it must be the other sideof the building from what happens when they

(26:18):
shows up and they think, well, Rick thinks, as the answer to
all our prayers, our helicopters crashed. You saved our life, he said,
you know, by pulling pulling meout. There's no evidence now,
but they'll just think we died inthe crash. There was just whatever.
I'm assuming they just crashed. Theycouldn't because there was no lights on the

(26:38):
building. They didn't see his buildingin the storm. And that's it.
That's what we've been waiting for.We can just you know, sorry it's
showing this saying this. We canjust go home. But Rick knows that's
not enough. It's not going totake away the threat of Jadis. Jenis

(27:00):
won't buy it because she knows himtoo much. She knows him and Rashau,
and she knows if they've just suddenlyvanished, they didn't die in a
helicopter, and if that helicopter crashed, it was probably them, so she
she says that you haven't asked meanything about your son, and that is

(27:23):
just like when she when she saysthat, because all he's talking about is
give me the PRB. We haveto go back, We have to go
back. Michau wants to go home, and Rashaan says, you know,
I know how it ends, andshe tells him the Brave Man's story and
she talks about Nat and that Natknew how it ended, but he was

(27:48):
he still stayed with her. Heknew it was all going to go horribly
wrong. And she's like, Ifound and I found you, but I
didn't find you, which is youknow what she said to the guy at
the phone drawing place. You knowthat she was still looking for him because
even though she's found him physically,it's not her Wrick, it's not the
Rick she knew, and she's stilltrying to get through that and it's if

(28:17):
Rick. All Rick can think aboutis if he stays, he's the one
person who can protect her and Judithand Ardie. And he explains to her
how that works because of Okfar.He tells her about ok for that.
You know he protected him and shewill need someone in the Sierram to protect
her. But Micheaune is just stillnot convinced. You know. Remember she

(28:41):
tries to prad his his memory andhis soul and say, you know,
don't you remember the life we've builtand it worked, It's kept people live,
We've carried on and we have tofind a way out. And with
okafor gone, And I thought thiswas interesting. Rick says, Okraphor is

(29:03):
gone and Thorn is one of them. He knows she's lost already. I'm
really interested to see when we youknow, the next last two episodes.
And to be clear, at thispoint we are in the same boat as
any viewer because there are no screaresso far for episodes five and six,
so we don't know anything beyond thispoint. Yeah, so we don't know

(29:29):
what Thorn's going to do. Butobviously Rick is saying, you know,
she's she's gone, she's gone fullCRM. So he's the only one who
can who can look out for ifshe leaves, and me Sean gives him
this is fabulous. I love thisbit. It's the kind it is so
the kind of argument you have whereshe's like, oh so you're not coming

(29:51):
because maybe one day the crem mightattack. All these maybes, all these
uncertainties, and that's why you're notcoming home with me, and he said,
and it's so awful when she shesays, you know, are you
not coming to it? And hesays, I don't want I have to,
so no, and it's like he'sdone. But Micheone is not buying

(30:15):
it. She says, you're lying, you're lying to yourself, you're lying
to me. But that's fine.I'm going. She's had enough that point,
she's walking out, and I lovethe way when she when she just
is speaking and she just walks aroundthe apartment, gets a knife out of
the knife block, gets to theI don't know what her utility belt,

(30:37):
and then she just knocks over alamp, breaks it. So she's I
just loved the casual way she didthat. Yeah, I like that too.
She's talking to him because it's soMichone. It's so the way those
who have succeeded in that life haveto think. They're just currently thinking,
right, what do I need andwhat can I use to get what I

(30:59):
need? So she goes out,she closes the door, walks down the
hall and she stops and Rick.We see her and Rick, and it's
that classic It's a Hollywood thing,you know, when we see two lovers
other side of the door. Arethey going to go back to each other?
Are they going to not? Weare? We saw it and diverged
with with Darryl and Carol and thegarage that moment where they hesitate whever.

(31:22):
But in this case it's huge becausethis is Maseeaon walking out of his life
forever. And Macheon waits and she'sshed a tear, but then she's like,
no, he's not coming, Soshe goes, and then moments later
Rick follows her, and so Micheanfinds herself in the lobby of this building

(31:45):
and it's all glass front and thereare many many walkers outside, but you
know, she's fine, she's behindglass. However, just as when Rick
leaves, we see this and otherhelicopter coming. The cee IREM have since
some a reconnaissance helicopter and it startsfiring at the help Beer helicopter, which

(32:08):
is crashed into the building because,as as Rick explains later, they need
to destroy all evidence. They don'twant anybody to know the slum exists,
so they have to destroy the helputter. But when they shoot the building,
of course ructions, the glass shatters, Rick dives on the shown in a
heroic move like the Bodyguard Yeah moment, and I saw sorry that was shown.

(32:38):
Deny had said that she'd sent AndrewLincoln and Scott Gimpal clips from Casablanca
and Bridgerton as examples of what shewas imagining for this season, and that
moment is totally that kind of thing, you know, the roic romantic movie

(33:01):
moment. So they run from thebroken glass and the walkers and they have
a moment where they are you okay, yeah, Uka, and you know,
the tension is lowered a little bit. So they're searching for some place
to go and they end up inthis room which is which is in fact

(33:25):
a gym, and there is abody of someone who has taken their own
life, and they've left a notewhich Showan reads and it turns out that
this building there were scientists and innovatorswho had gathered together to create progress and
redemption through innovation, not Elon Musk. You know, there were obviously some

(33:58):
group who were working together to tryand come up with ways to move forward.
And he basically the person says intheir note that they basically you know,
it's failed, and so they taketheir own life and they tried to
save their world their own way,and and then and it didn't work,

(34:19):
and Micheau said to it, youknow and sound familiar, so you Rick,
they start arguing again because you knowthey can't help it. And Rick
is convinced that he is going toturn this year im around from the inside,
and he's trying to get that overt. He's see, you know,

(34:39):
I'm going to stop stop the killing. And Michelle's like, what a by
signing up to the enemy, thatthat's how it works. And he says,
you know, I'm trying to keepyou safe, but she's like,
you are the only person I feelsafe with. I only feel safe when
i'm with you, and you're sendingme away and she says sorry. He

(35:00):
says he is afraid, you know, and he and Michaude says to him,
you're afraid, and he says,I'm not the brave man. He
he doesn't really lives up to thisanymore. That's not who he is.
But he's he says, I hada choice. I didn't have a choice.

(35:20):
You had a choice, and thatis so cold but true. He's
like, you shouldn't have come,you shouldn't have left your children. I
had to, I was forced to, but you chose to. And I
mean that is like a low blow. And and Michelle really feels it,
and she's like she pushes him.You know, I don't I don't know

(35:42):
who you are. This is notthe man I knew because Ritt that I
knew were not speak to me likethat. Yes, a little an interview
with Andrew Lincoln and he said,you don't say no to Micheau. Well
you know not either, you don'ttell her and you're so wrong your body,

(36:04):
your children. Yeah, definitely.Yeah. So yeah, over to
you for the rest of the episode. So there their fight is kind of
like, you know, there area bunch of they're kind of interrupted by
all the walkers at the door andthey realized they need to they need to

(36:25):
get out of that room. Yeah, so they make a break for it,
and you know they're they're killing asmany as they can. And there's
kind of a funny callback to theepisode Say Yes, where they were,
you know, in those fair grounds, the episode with the cg idea Yes

(36:46):
and they kind of had almost likethis. They had almost kind of like
a little friendly competition going on inthat episode with killing walkers, and and
then there's at one point, I'mpretty sure in that episode there's there's a
moment just like this one where theyboth go to kill a walk the same
walker, and but it's but youknow that it was like a little more

(37:09):
friendly, and like this one,it's like, you know, they're arguing
about it. You know. Rick'slike I had this, Shan's like I
haven't. Both so funny. Hetakes the he pulls the stick out of
the walker's eye and blood splashes onand shown and she's like, really it

(37:37):
was. It was kind of funny, and it's just it was humor.
It's like they're just it's like theycan't stop arguing that. The chandeliers shirt
shaking, and Rick's like, damnit, hug the wall. She's like
I know that, and uh Sothe chandelier ends up falling on Michelle and

(38:00):
she's fine, she's not hurt,but her leg is trapped under the chandelier
and they can't get it off.I really liked this. She tells him
to go because the walkers are likethey're coming through and they're all heading towards
her, but you know, obviouslyhe refuses to leave or he's like that,

(38:22):
She's like, you gotta go.He's like, that's never happening,
And she says, I just neededto hear that, yeah, and which
is true. She did. Yeah, loved to hear that. So they
finally get the chandelier off and theymake it back into the apartment, and

(38:49):
the recorded voice that was that beforehad said, you know, preferred temperature
will be reached in ten minutes,now says temperature control malfunction. So you
know, it's just kind of remindingyou, like the building is severely compromised.
And they start kissing and they endup in the bedroom getting getting her

(39:15):
freak gone. Yeah, and yesexactly. And you know, I feel
bad making assumptions. I don't wantto assume anything about anybody's mental health or
but I can't help. But whileI was watching this episode, this is

(39:38):
one of the scenes where I thought, my god, what the fuck has
Denied Garira been through in her lifethat she just like she just totally knows
how to write somebody going through trauma. Yeah, totally. Yeah, And

(40:00):
like Rick starts panicking. And whatI like about this is that he actually
talks about that later, you know, doesn't doesn't like it's not explicit like
you know, oh, I washaving a panic attack while we were getting
it on, and this is why. But it's like, yes, you

(40:22):
understand why. You understand later whyhe like started kind of having a panic
attack. Yes, and I thinkas well, Yes, everything that we
have seen so far in the seasontells you why. You know, that
moment when he is literally touching her, and you know, if you if

(40:43):
we cast your mind back to thefirst episode when he had the dream where
the moment they kissed, that waswhen they all your fire and he woke
up, and that is the keyto remember. Yes, yeah, yeah,
good point, excellent point. Ihadn't even I haven't even thought about
that. But she she she managesto calm him down. I mean she

(41:07):
just like she just kind of,you know, takes a moment and breathes
with him and locks eyes with himand calms him down, and it's just
it's a really beautiful moment. Yeah. And it's like it's another moment that
just got me teary eyed. Iknow, I saw a lot of fans
expectations. You know, we're abouta hot and heavy kind of scene like

(41:30):
in this say yes, but it'snot like that. It's an emotional connection.
It's not about lost and passion.I must have you now, it's
we need to reconnect as two people, and this is how we do it,
and this is their deepest connection.So yeah, it's really like,

(41:51):
it's so funny because this scene gotme so emotional. It's like, here
I am crying again because I'm talkingabout it. It's just like it's just
your heart just broke for me,like, oh my god. But it
was beautiful how she was able tocalm him down. Now, Yeah,
and I think it was the theright choice to do it like that.

(42:13):
It would have been easy to go. These two are so chemistry filled and
so passionate for each other. Wecould have had this slamming off the furniture
kind of you know, I musthave now. I can understand that I
could have seen that happening, Butthis is much more true to who they

(42:35):
are at that point in time ina case, what he's dealing with and
and Machean trying to find her wreckinside this different person. Yeah. Yeah,
so it was a really it wasa special way they did it,
and I really liked that choice.Yeah, and and you know, after

(42:55):
after that, like I mean,he's he settles down and were able to
get back back to doing their thing, and and uh, they they're laying
in bed afterward, and she startsshe's talking about r J. And he

(43:15):
you know, he's asking questions abouthim, which is important because she called
him on the fact that he hadn'tbefore. You know, she says he's
stubborn just like his daddy, buthe's got his good kind heart. And
then they're interrupted by the roomba.I've you know, we've seen everything on

(43:36):
on TV shows. There's always somethingto interrupt a kiss. Because Rick starts
kissing her again. You know,it's a phone ringing in the XLS,
it's a beast thing. In theOnes you Live, it's a room ba't
on the list. And I liked, I had to laugh at this because
part of you was wondering if thiswas like kind of a joke, kind

(43:57):
of a little bit of a jokeat at Andrew Lincoln's expense, because he's
so like, like he always jokesabout how he has a flip phone.
Still, Yeah, he's technology ofadverse technology. Yeah, but it's it's
it's interesting though because it kind oflike reminds us of when the world fell,

(44:17):
because he had no idea what thatwas. And she mentions that she
tells him it's a ruma, andshe mentions that she got one like just
before everything fell apart. Yeah,and uh Rick Rick comments about about how
he's how he noticed that the walkersthere are extremely thin, and they discuss

(44:45):
about, you know, they discussedthat it's probably because they're starving because there's
no food. Like the city's justit's just gone. There's nobody there.
And Micheone sees that he's like hestarts, you know, he brings up
the fact that like he starts talkingabout crops and you know, he but

(45:09):
how like it just takes one badharvest to destroy everything and like, you
know, sometimes you need to burnsomething down in order for for it to
grow again. And she's looking athim. She knows where where his mind
is at. Yeah, yeah,and he says he tells her if he

(45:30):
could change the CRM, then there'sa real chance for future generations. And
he asks Mischaune about the mark onher back. She tells him about Jocelyn
but and you know that she tookJudith, and but she doesn't. She

(45:50):
she said, I don't want toshe took Judith, And she's like,
I don't want to we stopped her, but I don't want to say.
I don't want to get into howhe doesn't she does not tell him about
that, but she said. Shetells him that she stopped looking for him
because she had to take care ofthe kids, but she never stopped believing
that he was out there. Sheyou know, she she brings up his

(46:19):
hand and she's like and he tellsher he was trying to come home,
and she tells him, you're stilltrying. I can see it. She
reminds him, like she you know, he could have hit the button the
entire time. And she says,you say you can't go home, but
I don't think you can go back. And this was like I loved this,

(46:45):
like I really loved the scene.And she's just like, I'm sorry
for what they did to you,Like she just she acknowledges that this this
rick that's in front of her,they they did this to him. Yeah,
And the building starts crumbling and he'slike, we need to get out

(47:07):
of here. And this was basicallyher pushing him out of the helicopter.
It's she says, no, we'relike, she's ready to die there if
if they don't, if they don'tend this once and for all, they
they need to. Like she's she'snot going to settle for a there's gonna

(47:30):
be no more fighting about it.They're gonna they're gonna pick a path and
they're going to stick to it.And she's forcing him to make a decision.
Yeah, they're going to be togetherwhatever whatever happens, go or Stee,
we're doing it together. Yeah.She asks him why he came after
her after she left, and hesaid that she's the love of his life

(47:52):
his it was like his heart rippedout of his chest when she walked out,
she lets him. She tells himthe CRM took a year from her
after killing her friends. She andthat were were together in that mall for
a year and she said, Iit was a year away from my kids.

(48:14):
And she's like, I lie toyou, I don't know how Judith
is. And that kind of thatkind of for me, that that validates
my my feeling that about why shedidn't tell him about RJ before. Yeah,
because she she didn't want to takethat chance that something had happened to

(48:35):
RJ. And then she tells himabout RJ and they get back and r
is gone, Yeah she uh.She says, sacrificing your family, sacrificing
yourself for the CRM isn't real.Your family is real, and she tells
him very explicitly, you're hurting meand I know you, and that's not

(48:57):
how you love. I know you. It was, Yeah, it really
was, you know, And ohgod, oh I can't. I'm sorry,
guys, I'm so emotional about this, like, oh, do you
want me to do it? Ican hold your virtual hand, thank you.

(49:27):
I actually I want to do thisbecause I thought this whole thing was
so incredible that it was important tome too, because I know that there
are some people that watch our recapsand don't watch the show, and I

(49:50):
so I wrote down this whole thingbecause I wanted to. I wanted to
read it for anybody who might justbe following along with us. Yeah.
She tells him she needs to knowwhat they took from him, and he
says, Carl. They took Carl, and he said, I lost him

(50:14):
again when I got taken. Ifought and I fought, not just by
trying to get away, but howI would dream I'd meet up with Carl
in my dreams, and that's howI survived and here it kept me alive.
And then one day he was justgone, he just left. But
then I started dreaming of you.There you were, You and I sell

(50:36):
in love in different ways, andit kept me going. I can't live
without you. I get it,and I figured i'd have to do that.
I know how to be dead andlive. Now you can't just come
back here make me come alive again. I don't know if I won't lose
you again. What if I loseyou. I can't figure out how to
die all over again. I neededto at least if you live on longer

(50:59):
than me with without knowing if youdo, I can just believe that it's
true. Knowing seeing that loss,I won't survive that, machone, I
won't. It was just, ohmy god, this was so heartbreaking.
Just I thought I really thought thiswas Sandra Link. It's best acting ever.
Yeah. Yeah, And you knowI mentioned last week, like remember

(51:22):
that conversation that Micheone has with theguy at the at the booth and he
says he could never get Carl right, Like he talked about a boy,
but he could never get him right. And because he doesn't see him anymore,
Yeah, which is just oh mygod, it's heartbreaking. It's like,
you know, and back to thefuture when things start going wrong and

(51:45):
the pictures starts slowly is his siblingsstart disappearing from the photo. That's totally
what it's like, is that Rick'sslowly, slowly losing this image of Carl.
And I liked that we got theflashback to that a little bit.
The film for Rick's last episode ofLittle Kid Carol with them. Yes,

(52:07):
that was really you know, likethat you're really cute. And then we
saw the Carl that we saw youknow in season eight and Rick putting the
heart on them and oh, Ijust adding those little visuals just helped it,
I think, because we saw thatthese were the memories that Rick was
trying so hard to hold on toand they were just slipping away from them.

(52:30):
Yeah, yeah, because it washeartbreaking, and you know, and
and when he talks about Michelle,it's like you you understand why he was
kind of starting to have a panicattack. Yeah, when they were being
intimate, because it was like heand just you know, just speaking personally,

(52:52):
this is something I've experienced before,not like you know, being intimate
with somebody, but I mean justlike when you've been through trauma and I'm
somebody who like I'm in therapy forCPS, for CPTSD, so I definitely
understand trauma. And sometimes when youhave something that's that's really good, and

(53:17):
sometimes it could just hit you likeI could lose this and it's just it's
terrifying. And Rick Andrew Lincoln justoh my god, he just oh god.
This was just such a masterpiece.It was just such a masterpiece.

(53:37):
The writing, the Niagreer's writing,and Andrew Lincoln's acting was just everything about
this was just so beautiful. Ilike the thought that that what is doing
is encapsulating really a lot of thestory of the Walking Day. This the
idea that if I can't see you, I can believe you're alive, because

(54:01):
obviously there are people all over theworld and you know, separated from each
other. I was thinking of peoplelike you mco and her brother, you
know, and you you probably thinkthey're they're dead. But if you don't
know they're dead, then there isa part of you that can just think,
well, I've not seen proof theycould be alive. And obviously that's

(54:22):
what Daryl and was shown. We'rethinking about Rick, is that if I
can't see you dead, I canjust believe your life and I can live
my life that way. And that'swhat Rick was doing. And I think
that's such a clever thing to latchonto that that they've never really talked about.
You know, it's something that Carol, not carl I want to produce

(54:45):
it very carefully when my accent,you know, she's she said it as
well, you know when she leftin season six and ended up at the
Kingdom, but when she was livingin the house in the middle of nowhere,
was because she didn't want to seeanybody die. She knew they might
die, but she didn't have tosee it. And that is something that

(55:06):
is obviously a huge part of themin this world. And it's so nice
to hear it said out she saidout loud by Rick. Yeah, yeah,
it really is. I could justcarry on. I don't want you
to die, and I can.I couldn't stand the thought of seeing you
die, so I would rather bewithout you. And it's the same as

(55:30):
you know what you're saying about itwhen in an intimate moment like that,
when it's so heightened pleasure, andyou think, I don't ever want to
feel this good because being this good, feeling this good means when it's taken
away, I'll feel so low.Whereas if you keep a nice medium,
yeah you know, you don't,you don't suffer the same way. Yeah,

(55:54):
yeah, yeah, exactly. Itwould just God, this just solliant.
It Actually it made me think.It actually made me think of have
you seen the movie get Out?Yes? I have, Yes, it
made me think of get Out withthe main character. I'm forgetting it's been
so long since I've seen it.I'm forgetting the main character's name. But

(56:15):
I remember Daniel is the Church Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah when
he was you know, when hewas when his mom was, when his
mom died, and he was sittingthere watching TV and he just sat there
because it's like he he figured aslong as he sat there in front of

(56:37):
the TV like he's his little kid, and long as he sat there watching
TV and pretending everything was okay,then like that was that was time that
he didn't have to be aware thathis mother wasn't there and he had something
to grieve. You know, itkind of made me think of that.

(56:57):
Yeah, I totally agree. ILike, can I just say I'm taking
this as the nine's approval for fanfiction. When Rick says I dreamed of
us falling in love in lots ofdifferent ways, I was like, it's
fun fiction. It's all your funfiction. Yes, I wish he had

(57:23):
told her, like I wish shehad told her, Like what amazing?
Apparently apparently Rick has really great fashionsense because I mean den I like Michelle
was dressed in the nines. Yeah, yeah, like that that white outfit

(57:44):
was phenomenal. Yes, Like,yeah, I I would let Rick Rhymes
dress me. Okay, Grimes hasa very good taste, Yes he does.

(58:05):
But yeah. She then takes somethingout of her bag and gives it
to him, and we see thatit's a phone drawing of Carl, which
was just beautiful and emotional, andshe asks him if Carl were still here,

(58:28):
what would he say? What wouldhe want you to do? And
she said, with this new chanceto be with the ones you love,
despite all the odds, all theyears I found you, Rick, I
came here through the hell that wehave both been through to take you home.
You think that's all for nothing,for us to just go our separate
ways. We go home, Rick, and we figure out how to protect

(58:49):
it together. That's how we makeit all makes sense. We love on
each other as hard as we canwhile we can. And it's funny because
it was very amtionally manipulative, butit was necessary. Yes, I like,
because it connects back to the wholeNagan situation that it just Carl's words

(59:12):
and what Carl wanted that completely changedit. So exactly just tapping into that
again, saying, you know,you kept Nagan alive and you kept all
that going, and you created thisamazing Alexandria and the the Hilltop and the
ocean side, the great communities becauseof what Carl advised you to do.

(59:37):
So exactly that and go back tothat and what would he want you to
do now? And she was yeah, I mean, and she she was
absolutely right. It's you know,it was it was almost kind of like
the Niagara unacknowledging like what I saidearlier about about Carl being the most important
character, Yes, in the show, like it was everything was always for

(01:00:02):
Carl. And and yeah, likeyou said, I mean, that's that's
why he that's why he did everything, and it's and ultimately Carl is why
he's there. Yeah, he wouldn'tgive up on that bridge and he and

(01:00:23):
he blew it up and he endedup on that bridge not giving up on
it because of Carl. And soshe's absolutely right too to evoke him during
this and and ask what would hewant you to do? Yeah, And

(01:00:47):
so then they they finally escaped togetheras the building is crumbling and you know,
they're they're killing walkers along the way. They they're making out in the
elevator. I was choking at themtotally. I'm like, there's no time
for this. You put the problemscollopsing, you can make it anytime.

(01:01:10):
No, No, it was.It was great though, because it was
kind of like what you said earlierabout you know how like everyone's expecting,
you know, them to just likebe having this this like this crazy wild
like throw each other over the furnituresex, but like get together, and
you know that that wasn't possible.But now they're on the same team trying

(01:01:32):
to go home, and now theycan't keep their literally can't keep their hands
off the other a bit in there. Sorry, there was a bit in
there when they're they're killing walkers,and I thought it was really good because
it showed how, you know,before when they were like no, I
got this and I got this,but they were totally working in sync again
he's like, right, I've gothim. Yeah, you've got him.

(01:01:53):
And I really liked that they enshowedtheir communication was totally back and saying,
and they weren't like see they're onthe sea beat, yes exactly. This
this was this was pretty funny.They find a truck wreck, hoops in
the driver's seat and then realizing that'sthe stitch and which you know, he

(01:02:17):
doesn't have a hand, so sothey switch places and and they're making out
if they're switching places and it's theyso he you know, they realize they've
got a hybrid car and there's abunch of tanks of of ethan all on

(01:02:39):
the back and uh Micheones says,clearly they thought they could do anything,
and and Rick's like, we can. We can make this whole damn world
ours if we want to. Andshe's like, yeah, that sounds like
something i'd say, and he's like, yep, it is. And they

(01:03:00):
drive away. They drive aways,both of them smiling with big smiles on
their faces as we see the buildingcrumbling behind them. And I love this,
Like I just Deny Karia just hasone of those smiles that just like,
you can't help but smile when shesmiles. He has the most funning

(01:03:22):
smile. Such a shame when wedidn't see it for so long, so
to see it and this was justbrilliant. Yeah, I did. Like
you know, the Micheon said,oh, they've left us enough ethanol to
get home. I'm like, oh, you can mark that just by looking
at it, can you. Well, they're really not that far. I

(01:03:44):
mean they're they're not. They're probablycloser to well, well, no,
they still think they're that's right,she doesn't. They're still trying to They're
trying to get back to the toAlexandria, not the Commonwealth. And they
like they left the cast gate,we're going back to Philly. So we
don't know for point they are otherthan they were over water. Yeah,

(01:04:06):
no idea. They are in thecountry at some point. But as as
the credits roll, we hear thesong let Me by somy Sony is uh
somebody who's actually worked with the Niagreerain the past. After did I had

(01:04:29):
asked her to compose music from whateverplace. I don't know what song they
drove a way too. The songis called let Me. I don't know
what song they drove a Way to. The music kind of sounds like a
similar style of to Somi, butthe voice sounds different, so I don't
think it's Somy. It is ina different language. I know Somy has

(01:04:51):
has written songs in in a coupleof Bantu languages, in Swahili and in
Rwanda, which are both fancy languages. But but I don't think that's so
may The voice sounded different, Ibelieve, but it's kind of a similar
style another artist, perhaps just thatI liked or that she knows in a

(01:05:15):
similar style. But it shows howmuch influence she's had on this. She's
brought in so many people to workon it, which is fantastic if you
know, if you're going to bea producer and you're going to be a
writer, and you want to beable to use that power to get people
that you think are talented and andup and coming, especially onto your your

(01:05:39):
you know, give them a platform. And especially obviously her working with black
artists and musicians from Africa that perhapswould get, you know, the same
exposure that they would white artists would. It's really it just shows who Deny

(01:06:01):
is. You know, she's notjust using this for Hey, I just
want to get my own way.No, she's right, Yeah, it's
like that. I hate to quoteTaylor Swift, but it's like the Taylor
Swift like you Karma is taking allmy friends to the summit, and that's
where Deny Deny is doing that.She's making sure if she has this part,

(01:06:21):
she's going to use it to sharearound, to make sure that people
with talent get seen for sure.For sure. I really liked I really
liked both of these songs. They'rethey're very kind of like almost kind of
almost kind of like acid jazzy ina way. Yeah, but I okay,
one thing I'm confused about. I'venever had I know nothing about hybrid

(01:06:44):
cars. Yeah, but well Iguess if that's a hybrid, there's there's
gas in it. Even though thegas would be bad. But you know,
that's been a flaw a platform andin the entire walking down universe for
you, like, none of noneof the cars would run by now because
the gases, like the gas wouldbe bad, but I so, I

(01:07:10):
guess it was because I was thinkingat first, I was thinking about the
electric side of it, and I'mlike, wouldn't it need to be charged?
But I don't know if hybrid carsneed to be charged or if they
can. Just like it's the drivingit charges it, so you run it.
You know, you're running it onthe petrol that charges the battery,

(01:07:30):
and then it can run on thebattery sometime. My brothers hybrid, so
it kind of uses both, gotcha. The The other thing that that I
couldn't help but think was it wasit was a yellow truck that they left
in and I just kept thinking,Oh my god, no, I I

(01:07:55):
the I I dread hearing what uh? I know? Where are you going
with this? I there's a forthose of you who don't know, there's
a group of fans out there thatread way too much into stuff, and

(01:08:18):
they they think that every single thingin the Walking Dead universe is about a
particular character, and they seem particularlyobsessed with the color yellow, color yellow,
color, white, color green.Oh my god, I'm just dreading

(01:08:41):
how much they're gonna get out ofit, out of this beautiful masterpiece of
an episode which isn't reckon miche asall, it's all about somebody else.
Oh my god, but no,honestly, I swear to god this this

(01:09:02):
was one of my one of myfavorite episodes of the in the Locking Down
universe. Ever, I agree completely, Yeah, yeah, it was.
Just it's in my top five,I'm sure. I mean, and you
know, I want to say,can we just send it there? Can
we just stop the cities here?And they're driving away happy? That's Y's

(01:09:25):
in the mod in them reuniting withJudith an argy because there's so much room
for things to go horrible again,I know, I know, so there
really is. And I there's somethingI want to talk about that's a little
spoilery, so I want to getsome other stuff out of the way first.

(01:09:47):
So this is your morning. Ifyou're watching us or listening to us
and you don't want to be spoiled, you can turn out. You can
tune out anytime between now and andwhile. I'm just going over some basic
housekeeping stuff and we'll get to thespoilery stuff after that. But anyway,

(01:10:09):
uh don and I post our recapsevery Monday. We haven't gotten beyond episode
four, so I don't know what'sgonna happen with episodes five and six.
I don't know. If we're bothavailable on a Monday, maybe we'll just
do live recaps again for those.See I'm always be on a Monday,
so yeah, yeah, so yeah, if we don't get the episodes in

(01:10:31):
advance, we might just do librrecaps again for episodes five and six,
like we did last week for episodethree. So if that's the case,
you can just you can join usMonday morning. It's uh ten a m.
Eastern is usually what time we gofor, so hopefully we can stick
with that time, but you canyou know, there will be a live

(01:10:55):
chat open. You can you know, chat amongst yourselves and we can read
your comments afterwards. But we arealso we've got a live after show immediately
following new episodes, so the Soulobviously you're getting this after the after show

(01:11:15):
for this episode, but you canjoin us for episodes five and six.
Down will not be here for episodefive, the episode five after show,
but you will be joining us forthe finale. Yea, and we give
you a number to call in.You can use live chat, or you
can just sit back and watch andlisten. They're in case you aren't aware,

(01:11:36):
we also cover this channel actually startedwith covering Yellow Jackets with our antler
Queen's podcast, which is me andPamela, And right now we're doing a
season one rewatch, which we're almostdone with. We only have two episodes
left. That is every Tuesday night, and then we're going to take a

(01:11:59):
long break and pick up season twoafter the Book of Carol, because it'll
be a little closer to season threeof Yellow Jackets, but we'll still come
out with more content in between.We also every Monday night on our second
channel, which is Cyborg Queen twoon YouTube. It's uh we do a

(01:12:26):
live reddit podcast called a Whole Queen'sand there's a live chat for that live
every Monday. We have been postingit to the main channel as well,
but that's going to stop soon.We want people to get in the habit
of going to the second channel,get that Cyborg Queen two, and that
channel is going to be more forkind of non TV related stuff and new

(01:12:46):
TV projects that we're experimenting with.I am also starting a disability and mental
health show which will include a lotof internet commentary as well. That's called
cyborg Us Go that is also goingto be on that channel, and that
is going to be starting soon,very soon. In fact, I think

(01:13:06):
I might be recording the first episodetonight as we're recording this. So now
that that is out of the way. Oh, also, please follow us
on social media at Cyborg Queen Mediaon Facebook, Instagram and TikTok and Lemonade

(01:13:28):
and on X we are Cyborg QueenTV. If you're interested in disability and
mental health issues, you can followmy personal account which I primarily use for
that, and I am at AntlerQueen kel on on X and Instagram.

(01:13:48):
You can also join our Patreon ifyou want to support the channel at patreon
dot com slash Cyborg Queen Media.So, now that that's out of the
way. So the spoilery stuff now, as we mentioned, we haven't seen
episodes five and six, so weare now completely we know as much as

(01:14:11):
the rest of you do. Butdon tell why don't you? Why didn't
you tell us about? So?Leslie and Brandt, who plays Thorn,
hosted something. She posted a pictureof herself and Andrew Lincoln, you know,
offscreen, messing around but on setand they're both in Cram uniforms.

(01:14:35):
But Andrew Lincoln was wearing the reduniform, which means he has reached the
highest level and he has had theechelong briefing. So people complain they told
her to take it down, butobviously it was a long time before she
took it down. I think itwas like two days almost. So that

(01:15:00):
possibly means that Rick goes back.So does he convince miss shown that they
can't just leave because you know they'restill going to be in danger. The
only way to do something is toAs we know in the season, they
spoke about this summit where all thehigh highest CRM officers are going to be

(01:15:24):
and the only way Rick would getto be there is if he is and
also a high officer, and theytake that opportunity to destroy the whole of
the CRM hierarchy. It's just speculation, it seems likely that's what they would
do because if they just leave,and I mean in the trailer for the

(01:15:45):
season, we can see there's likea car chase with Jadis, they're trying
to hear reach of the road.But as aside from that, you're like,
well, what are they going tofill two episodes with? They can't
just travel home. It doesn't answerany of the questions of the CRM.
They've given us these characters, Thornand Beal, They're not just going to
abandon them. You know, we'vebarely seen Beal. We've had like three

(01:16:06):
scenes of feel Yeah, so itwould make sense. But that I wonder
if that means that, you know, what what does that mean for Ricky
Maschau that Micheone agrees to this,that he goes back, how does he
cover up the fact that Shone?Does he take the shown back with him,

(01:16:28):
or or does Macheone leave? Andyou know, I'm really really interested
what that means because I did notimagining that happening at all. I thought,
I'm just going to be from thispoint Rick and Machaon on the run
and the CRM coming after them andwhatever. But so so I don't know,

(01:16:48):
It's it's very tense. What makesme think if that's what happens.
It almost kind of makes me thinkback to you know, to Darryl and
Carroll's phone call. It makes methink of maybe she's saying Misson's back and
Rick is, yeah, yeah,that is possible. That's you know,

(01:17:13):
I've speculated so many different things thatCarol I was speculating that she said Jadis
is back that if she makes itback to Alexandria before Rick and Michaon.
And so that's why she sounds weirdbecause she doesn't want to. She can't
give anything away because she knows Jesusis there. But it could be Mishon

(01:17:34):
is back and and Rick isn't becauseRick's at the crem Maybe it's Carl's back.
He's back to the dead. Iyou know, I when he died,
when they killed him off, Iwas basically like saying, I don't
care if you write the most ridiculousstory, the most ridiculous, unbelievab story

(01:18:00):
he somehow survived shooting himself in thehead and survived a walker by, I
don't care. Just bring him back. He can just step by the shard
and going with all the dreams.Yeah, I'm going through that right now,
actually with with a cert with myfavorite character on Yellow Jackets. Okay,

(01:18:23):
this past season, I'm I I'vebasically said, like I just I
don't care what you do. Idon't care what kind of KAKAMMI ridiculous unbelievable
story you have to you have tocome up with. Just bring him back.
Please, but uh, but yeah, I there. There's also some
stuff that I saw in Reddit goingaround that I don't know where people are

(01:18:46):
getting this from, Like somebody postedseason six spoiler Rick gets bit, or
I mean episode six spoiler Rick getsbit. I haven't seen anything about that
anywhere, and they didn't explain howthey know this or so I think it's
just somebody trolling. Was also Ibelieve a script snippet found when they were

(01:19:15):
filming in Yellowstone part well, it'snot really Yellowship Part, but it's meant
to look like Yellowship Part. Somebodyfound a little snippet and it seems to
be in reference. We didn't knowthis at the time, but in reference
to the title of the last episode, which episode six is titled The Last

(01:19:38):
Time, and part of this scriptthat was seen it set Rex says to
was shown this is the last timewe'll say goodbye, So that could be
going back to the CRM, butmaybe he's saying it in a positive way,
like from this point or we'll betogether there, we will never have

(01:20:00):
to goodbye each other again. Wejust have to do this one last time,
and I'll do this. But thenif it does that, you're like,
oh, no, they're going tokill recall. I really don't think
they will, because I think gotGimple wants to keep his options open for
a future film or CDs or wherewhere they all come back together and chance

(01:20:23):
there's always a chance. Yeah,I I that sounds awfully convenient to me
that a portion of the script wasfound that just happens to have the episode
sixth title in it. Yeah,it makes me think that that either this

(01:20:47):
this was totally this, this wasstarted by by somebody who was really just
speculating or me, maybe AMC justlet it, you know, because AMC
has shown this before, were theythey've they've they've leaked stuff themselves. Yes,
absolutely, the photographs of Melissa mcgridefilming in front were absolutely officially alive

(01:21:15):
because it was suddenly a professional dogfor with a very good camera lne.
You know, when everybody else isgetting bloody pictures of somebody weigh in the
distance. I was like, oh, there's a super program. Yeah,
somebody told them to go there,professional dogph to go there. Yeah,
So they leaked. They leaked footageof of Maggie being the Lucille victim.

(01:21:40):
That's right. They did throw peopleoff because they all recorded, they all
they all filmed ajat scene, eachof them being the lucile victim, and
then they leaked. They leaked theone with Maggie being the lucile victim to
throw people off and made it think, made people think, you know,
oh, somebody, somebody leaked thisMaggie's lueal victim. So it's hard to

(01:22:03):
know what is genuine leaks and what. And you know, I think that
Deni said she didn't, you know, don't want any spoilers. And we
remember when Carl was killed off,Chandler Riggs himself contacted spoiler size and said,
please, please don't spoil it.But unfortunately it comes out anyway because

(01:22:24):
you can't kill everybody. And andso it's hard to know what is officially
sanctioned but out of the back door, and what is a genuine leak that
they don't want to get out.So I don't know what's going to happen.
We don't literally do not know what'sgoing to happen. But I don't

(01:22:45):
think they'll kill Rick Cough and Idon't think they'll do a down the ending
because you know, everybody when thenewing figures dropped so dramatically. After season
seventh, AMC did a lot ofmarket research and to find out why,
and a lot of people said theystopped watching during that sort of nagan era

(01:23:09):
because it became so hopeless and depressing, and you know, and I can't
see them repeating that mistake again.Maybe they are, is it the but
I'm hoping they've thought, you knowwhat, we don't want to give them
that. Let's give them the reasonto hope, which is all, you
know, the theme of what thisplot is shown, saying, you know,

(01:23:31):
we've got to believe a little bitlonger. And so I hope they
stick with that theme. And evenif it's not a even if the ending
is open ended in some ways,I'm hoping that it's still hopeful and not
totally downbeat, because we can't gothrough that again. Now we have non

(01:23:53):
pleasure. Now we can't know thepain. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I mean it's I even if AndrewLincoln did what Christian Seratos did and asked
to be killed off, but Idon't even know that they would grant him
that because it's I just don't thinkthere's there's too much that people want to

(01:24:25):
see him reuniting with the other characters, and I really believe that. You
know, there's talk about there's alot of speculating, people are speculating,
is there going to be maybe aWalking Dead season twelve. I don't know,

(01:24:45):
but I do think that they aregoing to try to bring everybody back
together. Yes, I'm I thinkthat. I mean, Scott Kimple,
I think has been pretty clear that'swhat he wants. So yeah, yeah,
definitely, And and it you know, it helps like they're talking about
Jadis during Alexandria, and I mean, none of their old sets are are

(01:25:12):
around anymore, so that Commonwealth isa little easier to recreate because it wasn't
as it wasn't as familiar or recognizable, and it's a noctial place that still
exists, not Commonwealth, but theyou know the buildings, right Alexander.
They completely took down much of theoutside, you know, the walls and

(01:25:36):
things, and they sold off thehouses. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
exactly. Yeah, So it's uh, you know, I could see
them going back to Commonwealth and justdestroying Alexandria. And and you know,
obviously Hilltop is destroyed. That wason a private set that's gone, so

(01:26:00):
they they're able to do it,you know. And and the thing is
it's like they they really did kindof if they do end up blowing up
Alexandria at the end of this thecrm ns are blowing up Alexandria, that
leaves them with just whoever's a commonwealth, So everybody who's in Alexandria dies.

(01:26:24):
Yeah, they have a reason toexplain why they're working with a limited cast
and only the characters that matter.And I also think they've built up the
CRM to be something so much biggerthan any of the characters have dealt with
before. You know, they've comeup against these smaller groups, and I

(01:26:46):
think it is believable to see ifthey're going to bring down the CRM,
they need all of them. Theyneed, you know, the six main
the six big characters to work togetherto bring down the CRM. That would
make sense that they all come backtogether. And it may be like four
years five years online because it's confusingbecause Dead City is further in the future.

(01:27:12):
Yeah, the other two. Sowhatever they're you know, experiencing in
their series hasn't happened yet for theother two, so it would have to
take it forward in time, andthat would also explain the aging of Judith
and argue if we see them again, because both of them have shot up.

(01:27:39):
So I wonder if they would doa time jump like Rick and machewone
have got the kids back, say, and they but they've gone off on
the road again because they want tostay away from the main city because they're
they're understood from the CRM. Andthen several years later or something happens that

(01:28:00):
brings Daryl, Carol, Meagan,Maggie together with Rick and Mashon and they
take on the c and end themand that's like the season twelve Walking Day.
I wonder we have we heard anythingnew about Dead City. I think
they're about to start filming their secondseason. That's all I know. Oh

(01:28:23):
they are, okay, okay,yeah, because I was wondering if they
were just abandoning it or what wasgoing on with that. They out casting
call this week. I think they'refilming in Boston. Oh okay, that's
interesting. Yeah, okay, Ithink we start in two months, maybe
we start or maybe maybe thinkful.I think we start filming. So that's

(01:28:44):
is happening, and we know.The little that we know right now is
that when is when is season threeof Daryl Dixon start filming again? I
think it's June. I think Ithink some of the cast, I mean
some of the crew are in preproduction from April. I think it starts

(01:29:04):
filming in June. Okay, sowe've and we know that. All we
know as of right now is thatseason three is not being filmed in the
US. Yeah. So clearly Daryland Carroll are not making it back home

(01:29:29):
anytime soon. So we have theseason three of Darald Dixon to get through
too. Yea, So this couldbe this could be a ways off.
But I wonder if because Dead Citycame out first and then Derald Dixon and
then the Ones who Live and we'regoing to see Book of Carol before before

(01:29:50):
dud City season two. Ye SoI'm wondering if they held off and season
two of Dead City because they weretrying to get certain things in place.
Yeah, that would make sense totally. Yeah. Yeah, And they needed

(01:30:12):
to know because Dead City is onsuch a different timeline, they needed to
know how to write Dead City.Yes, to basically coordinate everything. Yeah,
yeah, exactly in terms of likethe CRM or if they come into
contact with other people, you know, like in the first series of Daryl

(01:30:33):
Dixon, we had that little hintwith Carol about what was going on in
Alexandria or Commonwealth. There may besomething in season two of Dead City which
gives us a clue to what hashappened to Rick and Mashone and or Daryl
and Carroll. Yeah, so yeah, that would make full of sense.

(01:30:55):
I think some of the stuff thatyou've watched Dead City, right, I
have not yet, Oh, youhave it, okay. I think some
of the stuff that happens in DeadCity would actually be useful for going against
the CRM. Yeah. I thinkthat they have they have they have access

(01:31:21):
to some really useful tools. Yeah, and uh, I'm telling you,
like God forbid, Rick does doesmake it back home and sees the Commonwealth's
soldiers, He's going to have aheart attack. Like you guys can't think

(01:31:45):
God are completely incompetent. Yeah,the CRM will end them in a second,
Yes, but you know hopefully.I mean if if, if if

(01:32:08):
Rick is doing something on the insidethat that'll that'll be interesting. I wonder
if he will get thorn on hisside. Yeah, that's yeah, it's
interesting or even I know, thisseems highly unlikely. Imagine if you got
Jadis back. Quite often, we'veseen this in things where this seemingly baddest

(01:32:30):
of baddie right at the end hasa conversion. And it would be interesting
if if Jadis and Thorn kind ofswapped places. And because we know Jadas
is one all about herself, She'snot about the CI She's about Jadis,
whereas Thorn seems to have bought theCRM. She drunk the kool aid,

(01:32:53):
So it would be interesting if thatJadas is like, hang on, this
is this is not this does notbenefit me? Yeah, she you know,
she does something that benefits her,there will also benefit Rick and show
the reason that Jada's is threatening toblow up Alexandria isn't for the CRM.
It's because if Rick makes it backand she's the one who brought him there,

(01:33:18):
she's she's dead. Yeah, they'regonna go. The CRM is going
to go after her, so sheneeds she needs to cover her tracks.
Basically exactly, it's to keep herself alive. It's not as a look
what I'm doing to protect the CNM. No, it's just protect herself.
So she can find a way thatprotects herself. But that damages the CRM.

(01:33:40):
Yeah, I could see that happening. That would be interesting, It
would be interesting. I can't see, realistically, I can't. I hope
that they would not like try tomake her a good guy. No,
No, that would be really unrealistic. She's too far at this point.
But come back and forward several times, all right already on that, Yeah,

(01:34:04):
doing hard doing of self preservation.Yeah, yeah, that would yeah,
yeah, yeah, because that's that'svery well established. She will do
anything to keep herself safe. That'sthat's all. That's what she cares about.
So if Rick and Rick is Ithink Rick is smart enough to figure

(01:34:25):
out how to do that. Yes, yeah, So I think that it's
a possibility. I think that's apossibility that he could get Jadas on his
side. Yeah, because he's he'ssmart, He's he's really Rick doesn't always
make the best decisions, but he'salways been really smart when it came to

(01:34:46):
reading people and and to knowing howto manipulate them and and to like getting
in their heads. And I Ithink that, you know, if if
anyone can find a way to kindof figure out how to manipulate Jadis too
into thinking that going against the CRMis going to keep her alive. I

(01:35:10):
think rick Is is one of thepeople who can do that. Yeah.
So, and would he recognizes,you know, that she's powerful and she's
capable, and so maybe it couldbe that he realizes she's his base assets
to turn the tide. Yeah,you know, And maybe it's as simple

(01:35:32):
as she said she left this filewith everything she knows about him. Maybe
it's as simple as him saying,well, you know, I left my
own information about how I got hereand and and what you know. Yes,

(01:35:53):
and and you're the one who broughtme here, knowing that you know,
you know, reminding them that shelied to them in the first place,
telling them that he was a bee. Yeah. And so yeah,
I think that's a I think that'sgood speculation that that he might be able

(01:36:14):
to get her. Yeah, onhis side, but uh yeah, because
she's she is a she is avillain. Yeah, but but she is
not. Everything she does is forherself. It's not out of like being

(01:36:35):
a villain or like wanting to killpeople or destroy people. It's she's everything
she does is just strictly for selfpreservation. Totally an interesting you know,
an interesting villain because of that becauseit's not about you know, preacher with
his weird religious fanaticism. He hada straight line that this is what he

(01:36:59):
was following, and you know,but this is just all about her.
So in every circumstance it's different becauseit's all about how does this base serve
meat? And that's actually, youknow, like one thing that Walking Dead
has always had a problem with thisconsistency, and that's interesting because that's actually

(01:37:19):
really consistent with the history of hercharacter. Yeah, yeah exactly. I
mean she was basically a mercenary before, you know, I mean, yeah,
when she was with the garbage people, they were it's like whoever gave
them more stuff? Yeah exactly.And the way that she transformed in terms
of her character is what somebody likethat does, who changes to fit with

(01:37:44):
who they are with to make themselvesfit in and succeed in that environment.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I wonder if we'll I wonder
what Jadas's fate will be at theend of this. Ar think she might
die or do you think she mightarrive. I think she'll die. I
think, especially if she helps Rick, she'll die. That it's possible that

(01:38:08):
she, you know, she thinks, hey, this is the way,
I'm in self preservation. This isand then oh no, I'm dead.
I could totally see that happening.And this is swapping to Thorn as Thorn
being the big bad because she isone CRM and wants CRM to continue,

(01:38:29):
which would be I don't know aboutBill. I'm not sure about Biale,
but I think he's such good actorTerry O'Quinn that they would want to keep
him around to be a bad guyin the if they if they get this
season twelve or a movie whatever it'sTV movie, even I could see that
too. I wonderful see Eduardo again. Yeah, yeah, the only the

(01:38:56):
only friend they touched who lived.I know, I know't the h the
actor Jose is that his name canyonasI can't remember forget. I want to
say his Canons is his last name. I want to say his first name.
Jose might be wrong on that,but uh yeah. He he liked

(01:39:21):
my He he laughed at my mynickname when I from the the episode that
his first episode that he was in, I I had my my middle name
is can I touch it? He? He? He enjoyed that I shared
that with him on Twitter and helaughed uh yeah. So anyway, there's

(01:39:46):
there's other spoilers out there, butthey were not they were released in a
much different ways, So I don'treally want to share those because it's if
something. If cast members are lettingstuff out, then I feel more comfortable
sharing that, especially if this wasup for two days. Yeah, but

(01:40:09):
uh yeah, the other stuff thatwe've seen on social media was kind of
released in in in a very likemalicious way, so I don't I don't
really want to share that, butbut yeah, so anyway, I really

(01:40:30):
I would love to know your guysthoughts on this episode. Please share them,
because I just I thought this wassuch a masterpiece of an episode and
if their story is not over afterthis this sixth episode run, I really
hope that that to Niagarira does morewriting and Walking Down Universe, amen,

(01:40:56):
because it's the writer. Can shealso write for the Dixon charld Dixon.
Please please please make like make herthe showrunner. Yeah, there was some
campaigning going on for a new sholdunner, a female sholdrunner. Yeah. Yeah,
Deni is the woman who Please Iwant her in charge of everything Walking

(01:41:20):
Down and related. Yeah, justjust replace Gimble with with DENI. Please
that will be perfectly happy. Butyeah, let us know in the comments
what you guys thought of this episode, if you loved it as much as
we did. What what your theoriesare for episodes five and six and uh

(01:41:43):
and oh in episode six, bythe way, our after party that Don
will be here for is going tobe a pajama party, so keep that
in mind. And that's not nowis that Easter Sunday? I think ears
On? Is it really? Ithink it is? Oh gosh, wow,
Okay, maybe people will be ableto hung out. Yeah, yeah,

(01:42:09):
yeah, I hope, so,I hope so yeah, and we
I might do a giveaway on thatepisode. So yeah, we'll see,
we'll see. Stay stay tuned,turn your notifications on, watch our social
media, and watch our episodes becauseI probably will do a giveaway and you're

(01:42:30):
gonna have to be present for ourepisode six after show to win. So
I'm just gonna you know what,I'm going to decide on it right now.
Yeah, I will do a giveaway. I will do a fun copop
giveaway, and I don't know howwe're gonna do it yet, but you
will have to be present for theepisode six after party to win, so

(01:42:55):
I can tell you that right now, but just follow us on social media
because you will be able to findout how you can win. Turn your
notifications on for our YouTube channel,subscribe, and uh you can figure out
how to how to win that giveaway. So thanks everyone for joining us and

(01:43:15):
we will see you guys real soon. Bye.

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