Eric Weinstein_ Jeffrey Epstein Was A Front_ The Collapse Has Already Started_(M4A_128K)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jeffrey Epstein was a product of at least one element
of the intelligence community. I bet money on.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
It the CIA.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
I don't know who ran him, but he knew a
tremendous amount about my scientific work in ways of what
it was posted. Very powerful people told me I needed
to meet him. He certainly was not a financier in
any standard sense. That was a cover start. I need
to know what this thing was, and I want to
know why people don't investigate. I want to know why
nobody asks for the filings. But I think more than anything,

(00:27):
we don't trust our scientists because our scientists are the
most powerful people in our society.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
So do you think science is being controlled so that
it can be used in a way that's beneficial?

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's put it this way. Eric Weinstein is a renowned
mathematician and.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
One of the most fearless and provocative thinkers of our time.
He dissects the failures of science, exposes elite.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Networks, and proposes bold new theories that could save humanity.
So top of mind for me at the moment is
the apocalypse and tropical fruit. I'm not kidding. You're looking
at the end.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Man, Do you really think this is the start of
the end of coarseity.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Look at how much has happened from the last month.
And the big problem is that we share one atmosphere.
All of humanity's eggs are in one basket. So what
needs to happen to get me a future? So I
think E one is one hundred percent right. You got
to get to another sphere. But he's being a complete
when it comes to science, and he's being a total
hero when it comes to engineering. But you can't engineer
your way to the stars with the science we have.

(01:20):
The physics opens the universe too, but we have a
real problem. A new idea in physics changes the balance
of power of the world. The desire of our government
is to get the science to give us as much
power as possible. But then they castrate the scientists the little,
destroy their families, their lives, their ability to earn because
our government isn't good enough to keep its own secrets.

(01:44):
My employer was a special informant to the FBI. There's
a doctrine that says physicists don't have free speech. They're
stopping the world's most important group from making progress. Physics
is the only thing that's going to get your pug.
So let's talk about.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I see messages all the time in the comment section
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(02:21):
strange way, you are. You're part of our history and
you're on this journey with us, and I appreciate you
for that. So yeah, thank you. Eric. You are a
particularly captivating individual for the very fact that you grace
so many different intellectual subjects. As we sit here now

(02:41):
having this conversation, I want to know what subjects at
this moment in time are occupying most of your thoughts
and most of your thinking. We have a strong listenership here,
and I think the responsibility that I have meeting someone
like you is to understand what we should be talking about.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
So top of mind for me at the moment is
tropical fruit and physics. I'm not kidding.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Tropical fruit in physics.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, but that's just because you're catching me on a
particular day and my local ninety nine ranch market ran
out of rambutan, which I'm addicted to. No, I have
serious issues with tropical fruit. I'm completely obsessed by What
about this week? What's been occupying most of your thoughts
this week? Well, the apocalypse and physics.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Why did you say the apocalypse? What do you mean
by the apocalypse, Well, we're.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Becoming a nerd to the apocalypse. We just watched hypersonic
missiles flam into a modern city on TV, and we're
watching one of the world's most remarkable civilizations, the Persians,
take direct hits from both Israel and the and I'm

(04:00):
just beside myself. I mean, this is incredibly dramatic if
you think about, you know, just the idea of the
Jews and the Persians are both still here. And you know,
one of the things that I find really just painful
is that I care about certain certain cultures that I

(04:21):
know well more than others, and these are two of
my absolute favorites.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
What's what's going on at this moment? In time because
it feels like there's more conflict than there's ever been.
I don't know whether that's just a bias that I
have in this moment, but whether I'm looking at the
wrong social media algorithm, but it feels like the world
is tense.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Well, you're too You're too young for the Cold War,
So I don't know how old you are. Yeah, so
you really missed. I grew up in a different world
where things were tense because there were two players, and
you know, it was more or less the US and
the Soviets. And then we decided one of the dumbest
things we ever came up with. A very smart man

(05:02):
came up with the dumbest, one of the dumbest ideas,
which was the end of history. And you know, the
post World War two order is here to stop us
from using the technologies that came out of this. And
you know, I talked about this a lot. There was
a six month period between November of fifty two and
April of fifty three where we unlocked first the power

(05:25):
of the nucleus because we could fuse hydrogen, and the
other thing we were able to do was figure out
the three dimensional structure of nucleic acid in the form
of the double helix, and suddenly, in no time flat,
we had access to the two most powerful levers humanity

(05:46):
has ever had and perhaps ever will. And so we're
just not in a position to deal with this and
the remarkable thing.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
What does that mean? Sorry, in terms of you said
we had access to the two most remarkable things.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Well, the hydrogen bomb is not something that has ever
been used by anyone against an enemy.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
This is the first full scale test of a hydrogen
device if the reaction goes wherein the thermonuclear era two line.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
So we're awaiting its first use in war. We did
use fission devices, but we didn't use fusion devices, and
there are completely different scales. So the Hiroshima and Nagasaki
are the only two situations in which a nuke has
ever been used against a population, civilian or otherwise. And

(06:42):
we don't know, for example, whether or not I don't
know at least COVID had its origins in a bioweapons program.
So at some level we're playing with levers and tools
that are so powerful. Do you realize that that the
key ingredient that made COVID so unique was a four

(07:03):
amino acid sequence inserted into spike protein. So that's twelve
nucleotides coding for four amino acids, shut down Planet Earth
for a couple of years. That's how powerful this is,
you know, And there are very few things that have
this kind of leverage. In twenty seventeen, we had a
discovery of white paper called Attention is All You Need.

(07:25):
And oddly many of us dealing with AI and LMS
and talking that language don't even realize there's a paper
that you can read that changed everything. It's eight authors
out of Google, I think, and that opened up Ai
Satoshi in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine
with the solution to the double distributed double spend problem,

(07:48):
where you could effectively port conservation laws from the physical
world into the digital world, giving us digital gold. But
just as a beginning, these ideas that have such high
leverage are making us powerful beyond any previous world with

(08:09):
no attendant increase in our wisdom, in our ability to
use and wield these things. And right now you're seeing
the face where we're unveiling what does drone warfare look like?
In FPV? What ISPV first person where you know where
you're looking through the lens of the drone as it

(08:31):
slams into a personnel carrier. You know, maybe maybe you've
seen this on telegram where you're just watching individuals being
menaced by mechanical flying birds equipped to kill them. So
we didn't know what drone warfare looked like. This is
the beginning of drone warfare. We didn't know what hypersonic

(08:53):
missiles look like when they slam into a population center.
I was just in tel avision, yeah, a couple months ago,
and I was and you know, shelters because the Hutis
and some of the Palestinian Arabs and Gaza were letting
off missiles, but not like this Persians really, you know.
And by the way they're choosing I think to not

(09:15):
inflict maximal damage. I don't think that they could have
gotten the body count a lot higher if they'd wanted to.
They're trying to speak the language of violence in a
very measured fashion.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
So is this a particularly tense moment or is it
just the bias that I have because I've not been
through these things before. Is there something different?

Speaker 1 (09:39):
I can't even believe the question. You're looking at the end, man,
This is the beginning. This is a slow roll out
of a completely different world you've been in. We've all
been in a completely artificially stagnant bubble for decades. My
entire life up until now, it's been in a bubble.

(10:00):
The only people who've seen real life are extremely old.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Who are those people that have seen real life?

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, I would say people who went through the depression,
World War II, you know in China, people who went
through maus great leap forward. But most of us have
no idea of what like a real pandemic like a
Spanish flu or black plague is like, we don't know
what Poland went through where they lost you know, and
our twenty twenty five percent of their population to war.

(10:29):
Look at the statistics on the Battle of Stalingrad. We
don't really understand. We've just our whole life has been
in a bubble.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
You said, I'm looking at the end.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, remember all the talk about the singularity, like Ray Kurtzweil,
We're heading to the singularity. What is the singularity going
to be? Like, you're in it, this is this is now.
You're looking at the disintegration of NATO. You're looking at

(11:03):
people who don't know how to maintain the systems that
were engineered by their great grandparents. After World War Two,
that order that you're from the UK. If you think
about how the UK woke up to the idea that
they had built into their heads that we are the
masters of the world. So you saw the beginning of

(11:26):
the end of this concept of the British Empire. That
moment is coming for the US, and it may be
that it's coming for Israel, or it maybe that it's
coming for Iran. See in nineteen sixty seven, the Israelis
felt invincible in the Six Day War, and then in
nineteen seventy three they had the Yom Kipper War, and

(11:48):
all the people that they were priding themselves as having
beaten the ferocious enemies that were arrayed against them woke
up on Yom Kippor in nineteen seventy three and bloodied
the Israelis, surprised them. So the Israelis underestimated their enemies
and that changed the entire character of the country. It
went from being a triumphal state that felt that David

(12:10):
could defeat Goliath to realizing that Goliath was quite powerful.
And you know, the same thing is going to happen here.
You saw the celebration that Trump, you know, had dealt
this blow to the Iranian nuclear facilities. You watch the
Persians come back. It's going to We're starting to realize
what the boundaries are as people are more bold in

(12:31):
trying things. Maybe she's going to try to cross the
Taiwan strait. I don't know. But the era of stasis,
where very little happened over very long periods of time,
is over.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
So you think this is the start of escalation.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
This is the start of the undoing of the post
World War II order. The idea that the post World
War II order is still in place as astounding.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
So what happens next.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
We either scare the crap out of ourselves and come
to our senses, or we don't.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
We scare the crap out of ourselves and come to
our senses, or we don't. And what does that look like?
Scaring the crap out of ourselves?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, I don't know. How did you feel about the
hypersonic missiles? Like and we started this and I'm talking
about tropical fruit because I'm trying to figureut whether I
should buy a jackfruit and stink up my wife's kitchen,
you know. And on the other hand, I just saw
hypersonic missiles slam into the buildings. I was just in
for meetings and television.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
There's a nuclear threat that weirdly hangs over us, and
I almost feel at some deep level we all understand
and feel that threat, that there's these nine or ten
countries around the world that have the ability to basically
wipe out all of us at any moment. I feel
like that's almost within us, All that knowing is within us.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
All I totally disagree. Really, yeah, I think about nothing
else sometimes and I still don't believe. I don't believe it.
There's a difference between knowing something in your head and
knowing something embodied.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, I don't know if we were able to distinguish
whether we know it or whether it's embodied unconsciously to
the point that it's changing how we act. Do you
know what I mean? Because I'm now aware that there's
nine country and I'm also aware of that. Really it's
one individual's decision as to whether those nuclear bombs were
to fly. So there's a part of me that's I

(14:15):
don't know, maybe in suspended disbelief or at a deeper level,
feels an angst.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
But nobody knows what to do with it. And this
is part of what Elon is all about, which is
that I am convinced that everybody else needs to be
talking about this much more, and I need to be
talking about this much less. I talk about this all
the time, you know, people are always I want to
survive more than anything else. There's so many things that
I love about this place, and I don't like the

(14:43):
idea that we're all trapped here with one atmosphere, with
nine individuals, if you like, who could all wake up
on the wrong side of the bed and say, ah,
today's the day. Part of what I'm so exercised about
with respect to the apocalypse is how many things I
want to save. The city just went up in flames.

(15:07):
It's very focuses the mind. How many things can I
save in one car load if I know that the
police are not going to let me come back to
my home. Do you save photos? Do you save musical instruments?
Do you save financial records? What is it that you save?
You know, it was a very focusing question. We're already
over we can't even remember the fires.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
On that point of the things that give us meaning
in our lives, where do you think we're at as
a society in terms of our feelings of meaning and
purpose and connectedness to maybe something transcendent or I was
mulling over this idea of the day. I actually posted
it on my LinkedIn pageable places. I said that I

(15:49):
think we need to ladder up to things to feel
like anchored and content in life. Like we start with
ourselves and we ladder up to family, then community, then
maybe a mission or a purpose, and then maybe to
something transcendent. And it feels like it because of the
design of our lives and the optimization of it, we
were increasingly laddering up to just ourselves. Yeah, I think
even in my life, I'm wondering whether there's like a

(16:09):
layer missing, like which is the religious layer or a
spiritual laer you pray? Hmmm, it's a good question.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
You'll come over a Friday night and pray with us?
I'd say, I do pray. That's pretty weak, but it's
not a It's not the way that I see prayer
in movies and stuff. So that's the thing. We have
the idea that somebody puts their hands together, yeah, and
they just believe. Yeah, But a lot of time when
you're praying you don't really believe. You're not sure that
you're doing anything sensible. You feel ridiculous, and that's true

(16:39):
even if you're a believer. Do you think we need religion, yeah,
said the atheist. Are you an atheist? Yeah? But I
take religion super seriously. I don't think we're meant to
live without it. That's an trusting conungrum. I don't think

(17:02):
so everybody gets hung up on it. I sort of
wonder what their problem is. Please explain. So you believe
that we aren't meant to live without religion, We're meant
to be orientated by something transcendent, but you don't believe
that it's real. I think that you know. There's this
great trick that I learned when I was scuba diving,

(17:24):
which is that your need to breathe is triggered by
the build up of CO two in your lungs, and
there are all sorts of things you can do to
decrease your need to breathe. One is you can hyperventilate
and you can get rid of all of the CO
two that's residual. You can also inu your lungs to
CO two by smoking. You can also breathe out the

(17:45):
precious air that your instincts tell you to hold in.
You can do all these things, and then you can
go super deep. You learn how to equalize the pressure
in your ears by holding your nose in these techniques,
and suddenly you're far deeper than you've ever been, and
you're exploring the rocks and the fishes, and there's a
turtle and there's an eel, and you get a message

(18:05):
you're out of air, and you look up and you
see I am really far from the surface. This is terrifying.
That's what happens when you unhook the proximate, which is air,
hunger from the ultimate, which is the need to breathe.
So thirst is proximate to dehydration. Hunger is proximate to

(18:29):
the need for nourishment. In part, religion and prayer is
there to keep us from unhooking all of these protective
things and just turning life into a hoot. You can
have a hoot without religion, but if everybody has a hoot,
the whole society collapses. At some point. I think a

(18:53):
president of the United States may have said that people
who defend this country were suckers, something like that, and
I thought God damn you. Maybe it's true even but
how many families have received a flag draped coffin and

(19:13):
felt pride like we lost something precious. But we are
part of the American tapestry in a way that few
families can be. And when we outsmarter ourselves, when we
unhook all of these things. You know, every single young
woman has an idea about what the opportunity cost of

(19:33):
not going on OnlyFans is. Before we didn't know what
the opportunity cost. It was no measurement of it. We're
becoming too sophisticated, We've got too much information. We're deranging ourselves.
We're having a blast, and we're completely undoing all of
the superstructure of the world. The number of people who

(19:57):
don't have children or want children, or my kids make
fun of me, and I just go around telling people
to make babies, and it's the most normal thing in
the world. I meet parents who don't harass their own
children to get married and have families. Like, what are
you doing.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
The superstructures of the world. Yeah, one being family.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, traditions, things that ground that connect you to.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
And what are the symptoms of that. I'm hooking from
the superstructures of the world.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
How much do you care about things? How much do
you care about people saying your name for generations at me?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, you're probably asking the wrong person because I just
don't think legacy matters because I'm gonna be dead, that's right.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
But you're I'm asking all of you who believe that. Yeah,
that is so sad. It's so weird that no one
cares about their legacy because they don't see a future.
So what I'm trying to say is I'm desperate to
get you a future, so that you care. What needs

(21:08):
to happen to get me a future? Something remarkable, something
utterly remarkable, because it's not it's not going that way,
And that's what That's what the physics part is. Like
I talk about physics constantly. Physics is the only thing
that's going to get your future.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
And how how well?

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Right now? The big problem is that we share one atmosphere,
so everything that can all the really bad things, whether
it's pathogens like imagine something COVID like but far worse,
or climate or radiation, all of these things don't know

(21:48):
anything about borders. To an extent, there's a southern and
a northern hemisphere that are separate. But even that's not
a great border. So we can draw all the borders
on land that we want, but we still have basically
one or two atmospheres, and I would really say one.
And we've now gotten powerful enough to really screw it up, right,

(22:09):
And so.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Three nukes or three cobbon emissions, all.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Three of those things. Okay, Right, everything that you care
about is on one sphere with one atmosphere, and I
think Elon is one hundred percent right. We got to
get to another sphere. I can't believe that he's focused
on Mars. I mean, by by sure, focus on the

(22:33):
moon and focus on Mars, focus on chemical rockets, but
throw a couple billion towards physics, for God's sake. So
let us get it. Let us get serious about exploring
the cosmos. This is our womb. This is not our home.
You know you know that sound closing time? No, I
did closing time. You don't have to go home, But

(22:55):
you can't stay here. I think it's about birth. Yeah,
it's time to be born. You can't stay here. This
is completely obvious to me. And I am the only
person who talks this way, and so I sound like
a lunatic, and I get tired of it. But the
real reason, you know, it's about the mangoes, it's about
the rhomboton, it's about the music. It's about all the

(23:18):
things that I love.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
So why would you want to leave?

Speaker 1 (23:23):
I want to take it with us, and I want
to see what else is out there, and I want
to meet people. Why didn't you just stay here and
fix this planet? Because you can't the odds of fixing
one sphere for a permanent future. You've already talked about it.
You don't care about the future.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
I don't have children yet either, so I don't Yeah,
I don't have that, but I.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
My children don't have children, and their children don't have children,
and I care about them, and they're not even here.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
We've got some time left here, the know, well we did.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
If you look at what's happened in the last month,
it's coming undone Pakistan and India.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Do you really think this is the start of the end?

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I have no idea where I am. Of course it is.
The World War II order was keeping is a control
rods keeping the world from going super critical?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Can't we just put the runs back together?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Have you looked at who we had an election with
Donald Trump versus Kamala Harris in the US. Tell me
what's going on in the UK. What are we doing
in the mayoral race for New York. I don't know
if you're watching what I'm watching. Look at the mess
that's going on in Gaza. Russia is nuclear, Israel is

(24:50):
presumably nuclear, Pakistan and India and nuclear. The US is nuclear,
Iran is almost nuclear. China's pissed off about Iran because
it was trying to make a play through the region.
North Korea is watching. Oh, and look at the UK
and turmoil. UK is a very nuclear country. To say

(25:12):
nothing of France. This is not going to go well.
We just we And by the way, look at how
much is happening with Ai right. Everything was really stagnant.
So I have this famous challenge that I give people,
which is, go into a room and subtract the screens

(25:33):
and forget about style. How do you know you're not
in nineteen seventy three, like drones are the beginning. Imagine
I needed to refill on my coffee and you know,
you did something and a drone brought me a coffee.
To not interrupt the flow. We know we weren't in
seventy three. But in general, drones aren't a big part

(25:53):
of our lives. These robots. I've never seen a human
eyed robot actually doing anything other than on YouTube where
it's like doing the mashed potato. So in general, yeah,
things were just really stagnant for a really long time.
And during that period of stagnation we had this crazy
narrative which is like the dizzying pace of change is

(26:14):
making it almost impossible to keep up while things were
incredibly stagnant. And so it just shows you sort of
this weird way in which our minds can be programmed
to completely ignore what we're experiencing.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Is there not a chance that will just continue to.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Okay, if you want to go with chance, look until
you're worried about your great great grandchildren. I don't want
to have this conversation with you. I want you to
start caring about that. I want you to go to church.
You're heir to a great tradition. One of the most

(26:52):
important traditions in the world has to be Christianity, because
both Judaism and Islam are screwed up over the law.
We're legal tradition. Christianity not so much and I think
my first time somebody crystallized that for me with Sam Harris.
It's a really important point. But your heir to an
incredibly powerful and important tradition, and if we don't have

(27:14):
a Christian substrate, we're in real trouble because all of
our society is based on an assumption of a Christian substrate.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
You're advising me to be Christian in tradition, but not
necessarily in belief.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, this is the thing. You're alienated because you think
that you have to be a believer in order to
go in. Otherwise you're faking it. Yeah, get over yourself.
That's how it works.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
That's true. That's me, just me being honest. I do
think that if I went to a church and I
sung and I prayed and stuff, and I didn't believe
I would that I'd be like it. It'd be fake.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Okay. Do you do you imagine that all those people
go to church or just sitting there one hundred percent
sure that there's a there's a Jesus to pray to.
Do you know any Christians? Yeah? Yeah, they're not like that.
They sneak off and do bad things if they were
confident that Jesus was watching everything that they were doing,

(28:10):
and they were constantly talking about how they said, I'm
a sinner.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's a very complicated, interesting piece of kit. And my
claim is that, you know, I said, the Lord's Prayer
is part of going to high school. I sat in
a church, a chapel at a high school in LA

(28:38):
that had a stained glass window with an American soldier
trampling a Nazi flag into the stained glass window.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
It was amazing. How does this link to me? I
was about to say, don't don't you have faith that
we'll just be able to kind of keep this. It
feels like a bit of a stand up.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
So you're the one with the faith. I'm the one
who's nervous. Look, you're the believer. I'm not going to
trust that. No, I'm going to get my hands during
and tried to something of that.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Do you know what if I think it in parts
because as you said, I've been a live for thirty
two years, and through that time has been relative peace,
especially in the Western world. So it's all I've ever known.
So I'm born with this assumption that this is just
kind of how it goes. There's always threat, but we
kind of figure it out come to the.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Pacific Palace, said it looks like Gaza.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I've got some friends that lost their houses there.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
You know, checked out Lahina in West Maui recently. No,
it's an absolute disaster. Is AI a protagonist in this story?
Is it sure in what respect? Or what do you
what do you think about it? We're going through going
through a wild revolution at the moment, and I just

(29:52):
hear people saying the dumbest things about it.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
What do I think about some schedule? I might say
something dumb now, but well, let's try because I mean
something them. I think when I look at both sides
of the coin, and I look at the opportunity and
the and the threat. My concern when I hear about
the CEOs of the biggest air companies in the world
talking about this fast takeoff is that the transition will
be too quick for us to adjust. And when they
say fast takeoff, they mean that HI arrives and it

(30:20):
the rate of its learning accelerates so quickly that it
really disrupts the need for human beings to do a
lot of the sort of jobs we're doing today that
are centered on intelligence.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Which shrubs require intelligence.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Pretty much all of them these days, because we've had
the Industrial Revolution where we've outsourced a lot of labor
to machines. But I don't think so, really.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I think a large portion of our conversation was actually
in LLM. We didn't actually get to the stuff outside
of the LLM. You and I are two chat parts
for the most part. You're a good one, thank you.
I'm on a huge I'm on a huge platform again,
you know. But my claim is is that that's the
really disturbing part. More or less, we're lllms. More or less,

(31:06):
we don't do a single intelligent thing all day long.
And the reason that they're able to mimic us is
because we don't realize that intelligence is a last resort
for us. We try to automate. Like, you know, if
you think about greetings, your assistant was very kind. I
got out of a black car that you guys sent

(31:28):
around and I was greeted with the phrase, there he
is the man, the myth, and I knew what was
coming next. The legend, right, because that is a sort
of humorous way of giving an intimate greeting. But it's
still an LLM. And I'm not saying that your assistant
is an LLM. I'm saying that more or less what

(31:48):
we do all day long is LLM interactions. Hey buddy,
how are you good? Good? Things have been really busy.
How about you?

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Well?

Speaker 1 (31:57):
I got some travel coming up, kind of excited about it,
but I have to get through some work first. I
understand that's an entirely scripted conversation. That's why I'm trying
to say that I want to do podcasting that is
outside of the l M. I don't want to do
just dangerous, stupid stuff, but I want to talk about
things that I've never explored or I don't have something

(32:20):
you know ready.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Do you think AI will have a break out of
the the LM or will expand.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
The LM as well? I don't see. I think that
waiting for a g I is the problem is a
bad idea. I think the problems are going to get
here far before a GI. I think even that the
ag I expectation is something we're trained to do. Do
you think AGI is coming? Do you think we'll survive
a g I? Will AG be I be good or bad?

(32:49):
All of that's pre programmed. Why are you waiting for AGI?
Did you not Alpha Fold three did you track that?
Do you know about this?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
That was that? The chess game.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
The well, it's the chess game that became the protein
folding game. You want to talk about great games? Protein folding,
Now that's a game.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I have no knowledge of this.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
It all okay, what do you know about proteins?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Very little?

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Okay, think about proteins as tiny machines. Yeah, that there's
copying machine. There's a scissors and a shearing machine. There's
a light making machine, all sorts of things, and all
of those machines are weirdly coated. Imagine that you had
like a children's show and a bunch of girls superheroes.

(33:34):
They all had necklaces with twenty different kinds of beads
around their neck, and so when they needed a machine,
they take off the necklace and they throw it into
a thing called a rivosome. The ribozone would take these
twenty kinds of pearls and suddenly it would build you
a car, or a spaceship, or a gun or who
knows what. Well, that's the story of DNA RNA in protein.

(33:59):
The only thing is, isn't it weird that a linear
sequence suddenly crumples up into a three dimensional object that
does something. So, for example, have you ever seen these
Turkish rabbits that glow in the dark. No, okay, So
they took green fluorescent protein out of jellyfish and they

(34:19):
splice them into the nucleic acids of rabbits and the
turks bread all of these glow in the dark bunnies.
And what that is is a structure. So there's something
called secondary structure in protein where sometimes you get these
spirals called alpha helices, and then sometimes you get a
two dimensional sheet that's made from taking a switchback in

(34:43):
strings of amino acids. And then if you wrap that around,
you don't have a beta sheet, you have a beta barrel.
And these beta barrels are the glow in the dark
aspect of green fluorescent protein. Okay. And what we didn't
know was how a series of ACE and g's could
code for sequences of amino acids could form three dimensional structures.

(35:06):
So if you just read DNA, you didn't know, well,
that's going to be a sports car.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Alpha fold figured it out for the most part, like
to an enormous extent. Whomans were stuck there And what
does that mean? It means that you could, I don't know.
You could target your enemies that have particular regions on
their cell surfaces and you could come up with proteins
that only attach to them and attack. It could mean anything,
could mean nano robots. I don't know what it means.

(35:36):
But my point is is that that's already here and you're
not focused on it, and you're thinking AGI. And the
funny part is is that's your LLM that got programmed
to wait for AGI.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, I had, you know, people that I think are
very smart, much more to than me, talk about the
don't listen to them Elon?

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (35:57):
I mean he says that it's our biggest existential threat
is AI.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Elon has become the outsourcing for much of our intelligence.
And if Elon means anything to you, he's really saying
to you, don't listen to me. Do something remarkable. He's saying,
where is everybody? Why is there only one Elon? There

(36:23):
used to be lots of them?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Why is there only one Elon?

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, not the right question? Where where did all the
other Elons go? Same question? Is it? No? I think
that why is there only one Elon? Makes Elon feel
more singular. You know, if you ever get a chance
to go to Cappadocia or Bryce National Park in Utah.
You see what happens, which is that you'll have a
stone that was resting on the soil and suddenly the

(36:51):
wind starts to erode everything except the compactified soil right
under that stone, and you get what's called a fairy chimney.
The claim is is that sometimes you get these isolated structures,
and the key point is everything else erode it away.
We're supposed to have tons of Elon and everybody else

(37:15):
got taken out?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
What or who took them out?

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Look at how much trouble Elon has being Elon. Look
we keep hearing about him.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
He's on drugs. Great, take drugs now, I'm not kidding.
Do you know how many amazing people take drugs? If
you care about jazz, jazz is a whole, you know,
it's a history of drugs. Whenever I'm listening to Ray Charles,
I'm hearing heroin. Okay, what are they doing at burning Man?

(37:52):
They're trying to live luxuriously under oppression, simultaneously luxuriously and
it's just dirty and dis gust thing as you'll ever be.
Hopefully they're having tons of eye opening, mind bending experiences,
chasing some way of getting out of the l M.

(38:12):
And you know, my feeling about this is it's not
even honest. I believe that Elon, for example, does understand
that population and growth is really important, but I also
think he just enjoys making babies. In in a weird way,
this idea of I'm going to have an empire of
my children is a forbidden concept. Try explaining that to hr.

(38:38):
You know, it's like what did you say at work?
So the key point is Elon is barely able to
be Elon.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Do you think we're overestimating the impact AI is going
to have because people, a lot of people. It's just
really fundamentally transformative. No, you don't think we're interestimating it.
I think it's going to be I think that what
AI means to us is bizarre. We've come up with
this whole script about AGI, and it's going to take

(39:10):
everything we do that's repetitive is on the chopping block.
And since almost everything we do is repetitive, we don't
need to get to AGI. We just need to do
things where lots of people create lots of repetitive data
and then we tokenize it, we train the AI on
the tokens, and then for the most part, it says,

(39:32):
you know, it doesn't matter. It can be a photograph,
it can be music, whatever it is, amino acids. Just
give me a large enough data set and let me
add and you know, take a hike for a little while.
I'll train on it, and then I'll know how to
do that.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
You know what it's bad at things that where there
isn't much data. So I just found out about these
orphan proteins where like everybody's got a different version of hemoglobin,
but you know, the quaternary structure of hemoglobe is these
four heme groups, you know, four different proteins around a

(40:07):
central element. What happens when you have a protein that
has no analog anywhere else, the system doesn't have the
ability to learn it. If I train you on the
blues and you find out what a twelve bar blues
progression is, then you find out that there's a variation
where this you know, the second bar goes to the
fourth rather than just staying on the one for four bars,

(40:29):
and then sometimes the fourth bar has a seven in
it to create tension. Okay, so it's going to learn
every single form of the blues like that, and because
there's a large corpus of that stuff, it's going to
get really good at blues music, you know. But if
you take something that basically never happens, it's not going
to have an easy ability to train and give you more.

(40:51):
So I think that AI is almost certainly going to
transform the economy because everything that we know how to
do through education creates repetitive behaviors. We don't know how
to educate for creativity and genius. We know how to
educate for doing higher level things. So radiology is great example.

(41:12):
Radiologists are you know, some of the first in the crosshairs.
I'm going to stare at some imaging and I'm going
to say, I think that's a tumor. I think that's benign,
And it's going to say just give me, give me,
give me. All of these tokens like well, their X rays,
their cats getting no, No, they're just tokens. So yeah, it's

(41:37):
going to start to automate away every repetitive behavior, and
then what's going to be left is the tiny number
of things that aren't really highly repetitive or things where
we really care that a human. Does it very interesting?
What's happened with chess? I don't know, if you've been
following chess.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
I loosely understand it, mainly because I've spoken to a
lot of AI experts and they often reference chess as
an example one of.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
The first things that humans did that we really cared about.
That fell. So they've been longer in the AI tractor
beam than any of the rest of us in some sense,
How did it fool through Deep Blue and IBM and
Gary Kasparov?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
But does that mean that people aren't interested in chess anymore?
What are you saying?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
No? No, no, that's the whole point. So Magnus Carlson, the
greatest chess player of our time and perhaps of all time,
was on Joe Rogan, and Joe asked him the simple question,
can your phone be you? He's like, yeah, easily. So
the point is we can't compete with I don't know,
Stockfish or whatever. The top chess programs of our time

(42:47):
don't know anymore. But nobody cares about those programs except
for AI experts. We care about the drama of you know,
On versus Carlson, two humans, two humans, because it's about
us we're very narcissistic in this way. And so there

(43:09):
was a period and you know, this is something that
my wife tried to popularize. So she said this thing
about the golden age of AI complementarity, where the Ais
aren't good enough to take over from us, but they
are amazing tools. And so there's a period where we're
teamed up, you know, the prompt engineering revolution. They're not

(43:31):
good enough to come up with their own prompts. And
a great example of this that she and I've been
talking about is the cyborg Chess era, which is a
period where humans and the AIS could form teams that
would do better, but at some point the AI just
looks at the human and says, you're just holding me back.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
You've got two children, Yeah, when they're thinking about their
career prospects, with all that you think can know and
believe about the future that we're heading towards, what kind
of career advice would you be giving today?

Speaker 1 (44:04):
I've given them terrible career advice I give I gave
them somewhat different career advice. So to my son, my
advice was do the hardest, most technical thing you possibly
can do, and be prepared to use that ability that
facility in different ways than you're you're honing it, But

(44:25):
train yourself with my daughter. I think she cares deeply
about people, and you know, there's a typical male female divide,
and I'm not, by the way, I'm not going to
talk overly much about them because I try to keep
them out. But she is, uh, you know, somebody who
was taking the same level of analytic ability but putting

(44:48):
it in the service of the law and trying to
help people who are, you know, really unfortunate. She's very
idealistic and so at some level the law is not
going to allow us to have AI lawyers for quite
some time. It's not going to trust anything. We've got
jury trials and judges and a legal system that's written
into our founding documents. To the average person, I would say,

(45:14):
get your board in the water and prepare to paddle
like all get out. The tsunami of a lifetime is coming,
and nothing your elders have seen is going to prepare that.
There's no good advice to give that's specific. Let's put
it this way. One of the things when people tell
me about their moving from one city to another, I

(45:36):
have a phrase that nobody likes, which is every place
is over. Oh my Austin, Yeah, it's over, Miami, it's over,
Nashville over. You know, all these places are over. And
every occupation that is named is over. I'm going to
be a dentist, radiologists, accountant, teacher are all over. Whatever

(46:03):
is coming. Get flexible, get good, get good on a
bunch of different stuff, learn how to think across disciplines.
I have no idea what's going to be left for us,
but you know, somebody's going to come out on top.

(46:24):
And I hate to tell people that you should try
to come out on top. I don't think it's healthy
to have everyone trying to be world class. I think
you should be able to just have a life. And
I have a Golden Retriever. I don't know that it's
the greatest golden retriever in the world. Sometimes I think
it is, but there's a lot of dumb stuff, but

(46:46):
he's my golden Retriever. I just don't think it. I
think that this mania for optimization, Like if you look
at your own videos, you'll find some of the best
performing videos are this is how to succeed, This is
how to get anyone you want. This is how to
get out of a bad situation. People just want capacity,

(47:07):
But for what. Okay, you've optimized your day, you've optimized
your health, your social media is optimized. Now what.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Now what? I don't know what should be then, so,
you know, is it time to just One would say
well now I one would incorrectly say well, now I
can play with my golden retriever. And then one would say, well,
you should have been playing with your golden retriever the
whole time.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
But let me put it a little differently. Through some
bizarre accident, I've gotten a chance to meet incredible people
that I don't even talk about who I've met. You know,
I've got a chance to see the world. I haven't
seen South America, but I've seen most of the other
contents other than the Antarctic. I've had a really rich life.

(48:05):
Take somebody who hasn't had those opportunities, but they got
a chance to have three kids. I'm not sure I
wouldn't trade places. I so enjoyed raising my children, and
it's available to everyone. It's such a strange thing that

(48:27):
we're talking about optimization on all this stuff. I get
to think about the substrate of the universe. Theoretical physics.
I dream about visiting the stars. I dream about multiple
dimensions of time, meeting aliens, all sorts of things. I
still think having kids with like unbeatable. I'm so sad

(48:51):
that it's over. I'm so sad that they moved out.
I cannot believe that I was dumb enough to live
in a society that doesn't believe in having your kids
with you your whole life. The idea that we look
at places where kids live at home as backwards is
beyond me. And shout out to the entire Indian subcontinent.

(49:14):
You know, it's just like family is everything. They drive
me crazy, but it's just meaning is available for you.
And again, yeah, every time I got a chance to
eat a rambutan, it's one of my favorite fruits, mangoes,

(49:35):
Rambutan's jackfruit, seat the fall. If you can get custard apple,
the amount of pleasure I get. I've never had a
good custard apple in the entire time I've lived in
the US. Not one. I've had a frozen one imported
from Taiwan. You get this, Cherimoya, just get out of here, Cherimoya,
You're not good. Great custard apple great see the follow Ramafa.

(50:01):
What a pleasure to be on this earth, and it's
available to almost anyone. I just think that you can
find meaning, you know, for God's sake, go to Spotify
if you have a connection, If you can afford a
connection to Spotify, and put in Pablo Cassol's version of
the bach Cella Suites, You're as rich as you need

(50:23):
to be. I've flown private. I'd much prefer to listen
to Pablo Cassols playing the jealous suits and economy than
to be deprived of real luxury. I don't know. I
just to me, meaning is everywhere. I can't swing a
cat without hitting meaning.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Have you always been like that? Or is that something
that you've cultivated? The point about being able to swing
a cat and find meaning, so many people that would
be listening now could swing a one hundred mile stick
and wouldn't hit meaning in their lives seem to be
able to find it in the pure things. There's some
more simple things, and I'm wondering if that's something that
we can all cultivate with a change of perspective, or

(51:08):
if it's just the way that you've always been.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Why is Joe Rogan such a big deal. You ever
listen to Joe Rogan talk about pugilism two gentlemen beating
the crap out of each other as poetry, as chess.
I could listen to Joe talk about mma for days. Yeah,

(51:34):
you know the story of Mighty Mouse, the guy trapped
in some I don't know flyweight division with unbelievable skills,
It never gets to meet a formidable enemy.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
You know, do you think that's a privilege? Do you
think that there's a privilege in being able to craft
a story? Because so much of the meaning you're describing
there comes from these great stories, and not everybody is
able to craft the story. Upon seeing something, you probably
look at this item in front of me, this glass,
and create a story about it that drives meaning, that

(52:06):
makes you feel something.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
I worry about its manufacturer. How is it that we
got a surface of revolution? What is the industrial process?
How do I take a picture of this and get
a photograph of the machine that made it? You know
that fly that has been buzzing around us this entire interview.
Do you remember when Obama had a fly? Yeah, and
he called it and yeah, the confidence of that man. See,

(52:30):
I'd try that and I'd miss and I'd screw it
up in front of me. You know, it's like I
took so much meaning away from that fly.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Were you trying to or is that just a sort
of prede all did not everyone? Some people would have gone, how.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Was it that you knew exactly what I was talking about?
Because he captured a moment. He was the girl in
the red dress. You know, there's this thing that women say,
not every woman can wear a red well, not every man.
You can grab a fly with confidence. I think I

(53:08):
think we all see this. I think we all see
beauty everywhere. You remember that movie American Beauty with the
plastic bag that gets in the air funnel going up,
and the key point is the ability just to see
beauty wherever you find it. You know, everything behind you

(53:28):
means something to me. The letter B. It is strange
to me that there's only one phonetic alphabet and that
every phonetic alphabet is descended from it. You know, I
basically view everything as a hyperlink. I just want to
click on the world and see what it goes to.

(53:49):
Not everybody does, though, but we do. They don't make
the step, is what I'm saying. Because people would see
the bee and nothing would cross that.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
You know, it's just fun.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
There's an absolutely horrible account that has been just dogging
me for years, trying to make my life miserable.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
And a social media account. Yeah it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, And the person said, you know, one thing I
just never understand is he's not he's not hawking a book,
he's just talking. Why are his numbers high? And the answers.
Everybody cares about this stuff. They want an invitation. One

(54:35):
of the funniest things that gets said about me on
social media is he goes on forever and he never
says anything. And then, like I look at the word
clouds of things that I've talked about, googling everything incessantly.
You know, if you didn't know who Pablo Casol's was,
now you do. Now you know what a real cellis.
Sounds like.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I just I can't believe that I'm so far through
this life that there's so little left. I can't believe
this doesn't go off forever. My people just got hit.

(55:17):
And you know, you want to talk about the river
and the sea. That river is not the Jordan River,
and that sea is not the Mediterranean. The Arab world
stretches from the Atlantic with Morocco right up to the

(55:40):
is It shad Ala Rabia Waterway that divides Iraq from Iran.
And I don't think this is stable. There is no
way in which we should be fighting like this. This
is ridiculous. Trump Trump used the F word, and he's

(56:08):
getting taking a ton of crap. Why would you use
the F world? Well, isn't it interesting that people view
Trump as so tacky? You know, he's got this queens
sort of bluster. He doesn't reek have finalist clubs at
Harvard or Skull and Bones or whatever. No, Trump doesn't

(56:33):
use the F word for a reason that he needs
it once in a blue moon, and it better means something.
And he said this to Iran, and he said this
to Israel. These two countries have been fighting for so
long they don't know what the fuck they're doing. He
didn't make a mistake. The rest of the world has

(56:55):
just forgotten how to calibrate. What do you see Trump in?
How is he closed both He's almost always in a
suit and tie, and he almost never says the effort
and it's carefully calibrated to get everybody's attention, and we're
so asleep that we don't even hear it. This is
World War three and it's already started. Biden was there

(57:23):
in the Oval Office non compassmenthis and I was being told,
don't worry, there's a committee that it's replaced him because
I was talking about the fact that he can't be president.
I just don't know what we're doing. I'm so mystified
by everybody else. You know, It's like, Elon makes sense

(57:45):
to me. I'm not Elon. I'm a very different person,
but at least Elon makes sense to me. Not one
hundred percent, but ninety eight percent. Elon makes sense to me.
It's everybody else that I'm bleely confused.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Miney, what part of what Elon is saying makes so
much sense to you?

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Oh jeez. Everything. We have to have babies, we have
to keep going two. It can't all be about problems.
You have to be excited to be alive every morning.
You have to work your ass off your whole life.
You want to know, one of the most beautiful things
that ever happened somebody telling Elon that he was the

(58:26):
world's richest human being. He said, huh, it's interesting Okay,
back to work. Amazing, right. There's no reward that he
can't have more of by stopping work and enjoying his

(58:46):
wealth except doing stuff. And I was born in this country,
My parents were born in this country. My grandparents on
one side were not, but my grand parents on the
other side. Where Elon is so American, that cowboy spirit

(59:10):
that he does all sorts of stuff, I can't stand.
I don't want to see one more of those Pepe
memes ever. I really don't what the fuck is his problem. Okay,
I don't know him at all. But Elon at his
best is is the United States. You know anything is

(59:31):
possible here, and we just waste our lives on interpersonal drama.
He wastes his life to an enormous extent as a troll.
I cannot That's the part of him that I don't understand.
Is one why he's not focused one on physics. I
think he sees it as going through groc and AI.

(59:53):
He doesn't want to trust humans. I think he sees
Mars as energizing to engineers, and the stars are enervating
the engineers because the science there's no amount of engineer.
You can't engineer your way to the stars with the
science we have. But he's being a complete pussy when
it comes to science, and he's being a total hero
when it comes to engineering. But he is the quintessential American.

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and conditions apply. A second ago, you said you can't
believe it doesn't go on forever. Yeah, you or the universe, or.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I can't believe my story doesn't go on for Look,
I've never died before, so I have no experience with it.
So as far as I know, I've always been alive
and it'll always go on that way. But there's another
thing that you know I've talked about occasionally, which is
I'm not the most public spirited human being. You know.

(01:01:40):
I am somebody who will take the last the last
rambutan you know, and I know that you're not supposed
to do that in almost any culture on earth. But
sometimes it's just sitting there and bothers me. Okay, so
I'm not. I'm not the classiest person on earth. But
I'll tell you something. If you have a kid and
you have a choice about eating them a time yourself

(01:02:00):
or giving the ruten to your child, there's it's a
no brainer. You can enjoy the rum paton so much
more if you give it to your kid. You'll see,
and that's the way in which this goes on forever.
It's great. I mean, just how many young people do

(01:02:21):
I have to yell at? I don't know if I
want to have kids. I don't want to bring anyone
into this horrible world. You have kids it bothers. I
can see it personally bothers. You Do you have any
idea how much hate there is right now for Israel?

(01:02:43):
Do you have any idea how destabilizing this action against
Iran was? Do you have any idea how many people
have suffered for how long? Under the moll is we
are being cheated of Persia. I'm not talking about Iran

(01:03:04):
for the Persians. I'm talking about we are cheated of Persia,
the entire planet, one of the greatest societies on Earth
taken off line. Look, you're catching me on the wrong week.

(01:03:26):
I don't want to dwell on it. This is just
incredibly irresponsible. We're not going to survive this. Israel is
certainly not going to survive this if the Abramic world
does not get its head out of its ass, if
the Christian world does not start to stand up for

(01:03:47):
itself without becoming this christ is king nightmare. You know,
I was in Tel Aviv before this all happened, and
I just said it from the stage make the Middle
East Christian again. Does nobody understand their role? Is sort
of my question. How can you have Bethlehem without a

(01:04:09):
strong Christian presence? Have you ever been to the Church
of the Holy Sepulcher? Can I give you another assignment?

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Get off, you're ask and go. You got the money,
walk the stations of the Cross, and for God's sake,
stop with the issue about belief. You can pray like
the rest of us. We're not sure if we're praying,
we're not sure if the thing is hooked up in
anyone's listening. You have the right to go back, even

(01:04:45):
with doubt, even with knowledge, and you have the right
to believe about it. Tomorrow. You know where you're not
going to be, but people are going to be mentioning your.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Name when you say that you people are under attack
who you were, and sing as your people?

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
I would in general, there's several groups of people that
I would describe as my people. The Jews would be one,
Dyslexics would be another, Americans would be another, Scientists would
be another. It depends on what of these things. But
right now I'm thinking about the Jews, and I'm thinking
about the fact that the social media businesses have lost

(01:05:24):
complete control of the bot farms, and we're just seeing this.
I feel like I'm living through the nineteen thirties again.
We've seen this movie before. It doesn't end well. You know,
what happened in Gaza is an unbelievable tragedy, and that

(01:05:47):
tragedy was partially architected by the United States of America
shoving a two state solution down the throats of Palestinian
Arabs who absolutely do not want a two state solution,
and the creation in part of the situation where Israel

(01:06:09):
has a hand, the US has a hand, the Palestinian
Arabs have a hand. The creation of Hamas and the
promotion of this just unbelievable genius in sin war, the
leader of Hamas who is continuing to best B. B.
Dan Yahoo from the grave. You know, it's just an

(01:06:29):
amazing feat. Nobody reads anymore. As you know, there's an
old Sherlock Holmes story called The Problem at thor Bridge.
You ever heard of it? So you're British. Sherlock Holmes
gets called in on a case in which there's a

(01:06:51):
murder and the murder is traced. The murder is traced
to this gentleman who's still exists.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
What Sherlock Holmes figures out is that it's not a murder.
It's a suicide in which the gun will fall into
the river at Thorpe Bridge because it's tied to a weight,
and the person uses the suicide to frame someone else. It's

(01:07:26):
just one of these genius little vignettes. And that's what
Sineoar was. He was a genius. He knew he was
going to die. Who was Sinwa? Sin was the person
who's committed suicide. Sineoar's suicide was an IDF assisted suicide.
I wrote about this almost instantly after the October seventh invasion.

(01:07:47):
It didn't make any sense that Gaza would undertake such
an act against Israel given the asymmetry. And but this
mirrored was that before the nineteen nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
So you think Sinwa committed suicide to then cause the
people of Gaza to invade Israel. Well, no, no, no, no,
that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Sinema would be happy enough for all the Gazans to die.
And so what he did was he architected a situation
in which Israel would be compelled to respond using the
wrong tools. He tricked Israel And you know, I'm very
confident to talk about this because if you check my

(01:08:29):
old tweets, I say, idf assisted suicide and Munchausen by
proxy and Zugzwang right, And I said, these are the
concepts familiarized with yourself because Israel is going to invade Gaza,
and I knew what was going to happen because it
took me like, why would you do this? It doesn't
make sense from first order logic, but third and fourth

(01:08:50):
order logic you're like, oh, of course it makes sense.
This is hybrid war The most important thing for sinema
is video. Look at the effect of the video. The
video of Gaza has turned the world to an extent
against Israel. That's sort of inconceivable. There's a doctrine called

(01:09:19):
hybrid warfare, and I think it came out of the
US and the early two thousands, and it says that
the kinetic component of warfare, the killing, the actual shooting
and the planes and the bombs and all this kind
of stuff is not the major component. The social media

(01:09:41):
is really important. The video is important, the mimetic complex
is important.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Israel has an advantage over the Gaza Arabs in kinetic warfare,
and Senmar knew that it's like brilliant. All we need
to do is force Israel to come after us. And
this is this thing I was going to say. Before
the nineteen nineties, we had a spate of killings of

(01:10:10):
policemen firing on people who had pulled toy guns on them,
and we would say things, and I remember this like,
whatever you do, don't point a toy gun at a policeman.
Don't you realize what's gonna happen? And then somebody coined
the phrase police assisted suicide, the policeman as the instrument.

(01:10:35):
That's what I knew was going to have, and for
better or for worse, BB just couldn't figure out where
it was. And Bib was dumber and Sinemar was smarter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Is there any way back from him? Because you said
this is World War three?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Well, the way that there is, but it's slim and
it's evaporating. I mean, almost everything depends on Saudi Arabia,
in the in the Iranians, the Persians. If the Persians
didn't take this opportunity to rise up against their oppressors,
I don't know what they're waiting for. Yes, you're gonna

(01:11:12):
get killed in some numbers, but you have to figure
out whether you're interested in tyranny or not. So the
Persians are absolutely falling down on the ground on the job,
not rising up against the Mullas. This is a coordinated moment,
like you know, there's there's a moment for a prison break.
This would be it. Who the mulas did, the Ayatolas?

(01:11:33):
The government, Yeah, the theocratic government of Iran.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
So the rulers of Iran, basically the people that are okay.
So I don't know if if if.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
You know a ton of Persians. They're varied in their religiosity.
But there's a you know, there's an underground gay scene
in Tehran. There's super hyper modern people just like you
and me who can't stand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
These guys mhm. And so you're saying that if they
rise up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
They would That would be one of the parts of
the salution. The other thing is Saudi Arabia, and I
have to be very measured and careful here. You can't
fantasize about the Middle East becoming Western Europe overnight. Every
time we do this, we make a terrible mistake. When
you have a modernizer like MBS in Saudi Arabia, he's

(01:12:20):
the ruiner of Saudi Arabia right de facto. He can't
suddenly become a modern person. So you know, if we
end up talking about koshogi and murders and murdered journalists
and all this stuff, the whole conversation will do rel
But he's a modernizer, and there was a moment where
he needed to not condemn Israel publicly and thank it privately,

(01:12:46):
but to say we've all been terrorized by this country,
and Israel did what everyone needed. We needed to rise
up against the Mullas because you can't have an nuclear theocracy,
you can't have a highly developed notion of heaven where

(01:13:07):
this is the this is the ante room where you're
waiting to get into the real room. That issue of
needing to be rid of an aspiring nuclear theocracy, something
that that Israel undertook. Now something that I'm going to say.

(01:13:30):
There are three words in Yiddish which you may have
heard or may not, may not Schlamil, schlamazel, and nebech.
So there are three unfortunate people. You don't want to
be any one of those three. But the subtlety is
that the Schlamiel is a klutz and the Schlamil spills
hot soup on the Schlamazel. So the Schlamazel is the

(01:13:52):
unfortunate person to whom bad things happen, and then Nebech
is the weak, ineffectual person who decides that it's his
job to clean up the mess. So the Slamil spills
the scalding hot soup on the Slamazolo, and then Nebech
cleans it up. Now in the US, we've got this
terrible sort of Christian nationalist problem that we've developed, which

(01:14:15):
is what sometimes people call the woke right, where we
have a bunch of people who've been badly treated. White
Christian Americans have been badly treated in the woke era.
They've been forced to salute everybody else's yay for you know,
I don't know, Honduran lesbian's day, and it's like, okay, enough,

(01:14:36):
we don't want to do that anymore. We've also done
great things, and I absolutely think that they've been mistreated. Yeah,
and they've gone sort of metastatic and their attitude is
no more wars for Israel America. First, what I was
getting to with the Slimyshlamazolo Nebek is that most Americans

(01:14:56):
don't have any idea who Kermit Roosevelt was, do you
have any idea of So the US in the UK
jointly overthrew a democratically elector in Iran through something called
Operation Ajax. We installed the Shaw and then there's this
period where everybody stupidly celebrates the mini skirts and the

(01:15:17):
jazz that was going through Tehran, which was a bridge
too far. In other words, the mini Skirts were a
really bad idea because they were ready for some amount
of modernization, and they weren't ready for that, and so
we pushed it too far. And so we got the
Mulas for forty years. And now we chop off people's fingers,
and we pluck out people's eyes, and we put homosexuals

(01:15:41):
on ropes and dangle them from krant. They're barbaric, they're
horrible human beings. Okay, these are really bad men, the Mulas.
And we did that. So the scalding hot soup is
revolutionary theocratic Iran, and we spilled it all over the

(01:16:02):
Middle East, which is the Schlamazl. We spilled it on
Saudi Arabia, we spilled it on Iraq, we spilled it
on Israel. Everybody suffers from having these people installed because
of the US and the UK instituting a problem back
in the fifties, and who's the never who cleans this up?

(01:16:24):
Israel volunteers for this job, and then Saudi Arabia pretends,
oh my god, this is terrible. Our Muslim brother is
being attacked by our Jewish. I just can't believe anybody's
dumb enough to fall for all of this, Like we're

(01:16:45):
involved in a story where nobody can sort things out.
There's no talking heads anyone believes in. And if I
didn't understand this, then how is it that I have
a tweet from you know, ten days after October seventh,
or I appeared on triggeronometry. I'm telling you, Israel hasn't
even walked into Gazi yet. And I know what the
strategy is. Iran sent hypersonic missiles into the ground in

(01:17:11):
Israel as a message violence is a language, and they
spoke it well. The mules may be crazy, but they're
still Persians, They're they're extraordinarily skilled. And so what they
did is they wasted some of their arsenal saying you
have no iron dome and we're not gonna kill you.

(01:17:33):
We're gonna put our missiles We're gonna waste our missiles
by sending them into your earth and try to kill
no one in the Israelis. These brilliant, genius Israelis who
pull off all sorts of things that the world can't believe,
are dumb enough, some of them to say, they send
all these missiles and they couldn't even hit anyone. And
I'm just thinking, do none of you understand anything? I

(01:17:58):
just don't even know where I am. And I'm looking
at you know, I know Tulsi, Yeah, Tulsi's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
She's the head of the intelligence program for the United States.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Director of National Intelligence. Right, Tulsi has seen the devastation
not of war, but of US action abroad. Like we
haven't really had full wars, but we get involved in
Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever, and you know, people die
and there are firefights. It's not like it has nothing
to do with war. But full on wars is a

(01:18:35):
very different thing. We say the Iraq war. But I
want to be very careful about the language. You know,
war usually involves you getting rocked at home, not just
your troops abroad. I don't think she, I don't think
she appreciates the gravity of the situation that somehow what

(01:18:58):
we need to do is we need to abilize this
thing for fifty to one hundred years while we desperately
try to figure out a long term solution. And this
idea of like just we're not taking responsibility for the world.
We already screwed up. I don't want to send Americans.

(01:19:21):
You know, I'm not in ISRAELI I'm an American. I
don't want to send my fellow Americans to die and
foreign battles that we have no business being in. But
we have to take ownership of our history with oil
and energy in the Middle East.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
And what does that look like?

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Taking ownership recognizing that we created the molas and doing
what about it? At wait, wait a second, not just that,
and that we also created a lot of the heartache
along with sinoar and to a much lesser extent, Israel
by foisting this two state solution on people who would
never put up with it. Like I lived in Israel

(01:19:59):
for two years, and you would have conversations with Arabs,
some of whom are Israelis, you know, and they would say, look,
you know, you just don't understand the West Bank, and
you don't understand the difference between the West Bank and Gaza.
And they would tell me straight up, you're going to
get us all killed with this two state solution. Stop it.

(01:20:23):
And you know it's very hard for me to hear.
But we're just having a child's conversation about the Middle East.
And I will say this about the UK, the British
Foreign Service had a different failure mode than the US.
They really learned the regions, they learned the dialects of

(01:20:45):
the languages of the countries that they were involved in.
The British Empire took many places that they were involved
in seriously, and they have a very complicated legacy. You know,
I spend a lot of time in Bombay and there's
a lot of debate among very educated Indians about figuring
out how to think about the British legacy, all of

(01:21:08):
the great institutional structures that were built, all of the
prejudice and bigotry. Why was such a small country able
to colonize such a large land basically working with the locals.
You know, it's a rich conversation. We're having childlike conversations
about all of us. I'm sorry if I'm going on
about this, but it's just a very weird thing that

(01:21:32):
we're We can't get anybody's attention. You can't even get
my attention. You know, I'm watching hypersonic missiles slam into
the places I just was, and then I'm watching a
cat video, and then I'm trying to figure out what

(01:21:53):
to order through Uber Eats, and it's just like, I
can't stay focused. It's really important to put this, to
put this right, and the US screwed up the Middle
East along with the UK really good, and we have
a lot of responsibility. And if we want to go isolationist,
I understand that, but you first have to put back

(01:22:14):
the chicken soup that you spilled.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
And how did you do that?

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
I'm not sure. I'm not the Director of National Intelligence,
I'm not the Secretary of Defense. I'm not in the ovals.
I mean, you know, it's very weird. I was workmates
with jd. Vance. You know, these are people who are
you know, Bobby Kennedy lives one canyon over for me

(01:22:38):
in Los Angeles. The people around power in the US,
god speed, you know, just just wish them well. I
don't care what party you're in, but to try to
sabotage Trump or sabotage Tulsi or sabotage Pete Haggs. These

(01:23:02):
guys need to figure this out, and they need to
be at a totally different level.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
And he's figuring it out. Peace in the region.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
You know, the peace with between Egypt and Israel is
a shitty, crappy, horrible peace. But it's peace. It's not
a loving relationship. It's not a question of everybody going
back and forth between the two countries saying, you know,
we used to be enemies, now we're friends. It's a lousy,
cold peace. I'll take it. We need to have peace

(01:23:35):
between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs who can live in peace,
and we need the people who cannot live in peace,
We need to find someplace else for them to be.
It is absolutely imperative. And by the way, this goes
for the Israelis, there are a small number of hardcore
Israeli cell vators who cannot live, you know, in peace

(01:23:55):
with their neighbors. And it's very important that the people
who cannot live in peace not be there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Do we need to go to Are you suggesting that
we focus on regime change in Iran?

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
That is really the responsibility of the Persians.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
So I want to I want to get clear on
what you see as a solution, because you're saying the
Persian people have to rise up, the US need to
cap and not get involved in that regime change.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
I'm saying that a bunch of things need to happen
if we're to have a long term solution.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
I make you president tomorrow. I hate when people do this,
but it's the clearest way of understanding the actions you would.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
First of all, if I was president tomorrow, sure as
hell wouldn't be on a podcast discussing strategy.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
With you Trump, does it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Yeah, I decline to answer all sorts of questions on camera. Yeah.
So my feeling is is that you do a lot
more behind closed doors, and this idea of just handing
people you're the king of the world. What do you
do tomorrow to start? You know, it's like, don't do
that to me, because it's just it's a no win question.
If I was gonna I do a lot of stressing
and communication, I'd meet with people in private. I'd use

(01:25:05):
lots of carrots and sticks. I try to use long
range thinking, and I wouldn't tell you what my plan is.
And by the way, I very much respect Donald Trump
in certain ways, one of which is is that this
confuses our friend Sam Harris, no end. Sam's always like, well,
he's not being truthful, he's not making sense. He's a negotiator.
You don't sit down to a negotiation with an open

(01:25:28):
book saying let me make sense to you. You sit
there saying you don't know what I'm gonna do next.
You don't know how big the stick is. You don't
know how much carrot there is. Maybe I'm prepared to
give you more. Maybe my stick isn't as big as
you think, or maybe it's twice as big. Do you
think anyone has good ances? I'll be honest. I think

(01:25:48):
that Trump is in part respected because he has some
intuitions about this stuff. His intuition is not to say everything.
His intuition is that negotiation is more important than transparency,
and at a time when everybody's craving transparency, tell me everything. No,

(01:26:10):
I'm not going to tell you everything. I'm going to
try to save some children today. I'm going to threaten,
I'm going to cajole, I'm gonna do all sorts of things.
And you know that's what I do. I would assemble
the best people around me. I would stop giving so
many press conferences. I wouldn't tweet every four seconds. I'd

(01:26:32):
be extremely strategic about it. But you know, the situation
in tel Aviv and in Gaza makes me sick to
my stomach. And in Ukraine almost all of my DNA
comes from Ukraine at least pass through it, and I've

(01:26:57):
been there, and you know, Russians in Ukraine. Ukraine used
to be known as Little Russia. This is how are
we sitting here watching this? What Moron decided in two
thousand and four that we were just going to hand

(01:27:20):
full Article five status to former Soviet republics with our consequence?
It is not the case that I don't I would
love to have Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania in NATO, not

(01:27:41):
at this cost. Look, the world is a brutal, brutal place.
We've gotten really bad at international understandings. I can't stand

(01:28:04):
what's happened to Europe. Europe has been completely denatured. We're
playing with fire everywhere, and I just I don't know
how to talk about it because every time I talk
about things where I'm the only person who sounds like this,
it's bad for my life. Look, if you're in general

(01:28:28):
a Ukraine hawk and you say, you know, we need
to make sure that Ukraine is completely supported so that
they don't give an inch of territory, Yeah, you'll take
a lot of crappy. You'll be in a large group.
And if you basically have the idea that Russia, you know,
was mining its own business in the US, was encircling
it and good Russia, bad Us, You'll have a lot

(01:28:50):
of company for that perspective. I don't sound like any
of that. The most important thing is to stabilize the world. Again,
We're not going to get another chance like World War Two.
If we're not smart, we're crazy to give up this
order that we have. And again, you know, one more time,
I'm talking about this stuff, and I don't want to
be talking about this stuff. Elon is one hundred percent right.

(01:29:13):
We can't talk about problems all the time. It's cheap meaning.
There's an entire universe to explore, and we're sitting here
focused on our own drama always and I'm getting sucked
into it. I don't want it. I want to be
talking about traveling through time and space using Easter eggs

(01:29:40):
and hidden features of what we thought was the space
time continue.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
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a brand called ketone Iq sent me their little product
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tried it, and honestly, I have not looked back ever since.
I now have this everywhere I go when I travel
all around the world. It's in my hotel room. My

(01:30:05):
team will put it there. Before I did the podcast
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I find it so easy to drop into deep focused
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(01:30:25):
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(01:30:46):
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(01:31:07):
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I've got this this picture that I came across tell me, well,
I'd love you to tell me. This is the Flower
of Life geometric model. And I was. I was reading

(01:31:52):
through some of your work and I came across this
sentence that said you'd kept a secret for thirty years
in terms of your belief about the nature of the
reality that we live in, and that you thought maybe
it was more than just the dimensions we experienced, maybe
there was fourteen dimensions. I've always I wondered this a lot,
you know, because we were fixated on problems. We're fixated

(01:32:13):
on what we see and what we hear and what
we feel. But I wonder sometimes if even that is
an illusion. I've spent a lot of time actually thinking
recently about the simulation theory and is this whole reality
just some simulation on some kids video game in another dimension?
So I thought, you know, you're a physicist.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
For me, a favorite put that in a triangle pattern here. Okay,
so we have three mugs. Think of those as vertices
of a tetrahedron, and think of this coaster floating here
as the fourth vertex for every two vertices, So the
number of vertices we would agree is four.

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
Yeah, what's what's as vertice? I mean points?

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
Yeah, idealize these three things and this as points. Draw
a line segment between all of these four vertices. How
many line segments are there?

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
Two, three, four, five, six, six yep.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
So there's six edges, four vertices. How many triangular faces
that have three verticies on them?

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
Full Yeah. This is how to think about the actual
dimensions that we have open to us, the four faces
we know about. The key point that I was trying
to get at is I don't believe that you just
have the four dimensions. I believe that you have all
six edges or dimensions, and all four vertices are also dimensions.

(01:33:45):
I'm talking about a hidden world. It's very interesting. Physics
has gone stagnant in terms of how we usually measure progress.
The way we measure progress is the change in something
called the action or the specialized device, and that used
to change a lot, and then in nineteen seventy three

(01:34:05):
had stopped changing. The major thing that we have is
we have no new ideas about how to change the
Lagrangian that anybody finds that exciting or interesting. So there's
been no progress. Nobody goes to Stockholm to get a
Nobel Prize because they changed the lagrangian of the world.

(01:34:25):
The lagrangian. So you probably think about physics in terms
of equations like Maxwell's equations or the Einstein equations or whatever.
Think about an equation as being not the primary thing
that physicists think about. So I give this example. The

(01:34:45):
Beatles had four basically different configurations. When Ringo was for
the front man, he was singing Octopus's Garden. George Harrison
is singing while my guitar gently weeps, you know, Paul
is singing about Penny Lane, and John is singing about
strawberry fields forever. Those four equations, those would be those

(01:35:09):
different configurations of the Beatles, with one of them front
and everybody else backing. The front Man would be the equations,
but the Beatles would be the Lagrangian. It's the thing
that generates the four different configurations. Okay, And there's this
bizarre force field that anybody who wants to talk about
physics and doing something new, in particular leaving or traversing

(01:35:32):
time or multiple dimensions of time. Anything that's really close
to what might be possible gets slammed, and we don't
know why because it's very cheap to explore ideas, and
we have no new ideas. But the only thing about

(01:35:54):
a new idea in physics is that a new idea
changes the balance of power in the world. Do you
remember the thing I was saying about alpha fold three?
Alpha fol three changed the balance of power in the world.
Bitcoin change the balance of power in the world. The
diffuse proposal from the EcoHealth Alliance changed the balance of

(01:36:15):
power in the world. If that was the source of
the COVID virus. Anytime somebody has a really big idea
and the biggest idea, and you know I talk about this,
people don't grasp it. Probably the most dangerous thought anyone
has ever had was Rutherford in nineteen eleven saying, I

(01:36:36):
wonder whether there's a neutral version of the proton. It
doesn't sound dangerous, but it's hard to send a proton
into a bunch of protons because it's positively charged, and
a massive nucleus is really positively charged, and so there's
a repulsion if there's a neutral version of the proton,

(01:37:00):
and these things are barely stuck together with a strong force,
even though they're trying to scream away from each other
because they want they're all positively charged. You can send
a neutral version of the proton right into the center tap.
I'm just imagining you have a bunch of magnets that
are trying to flee from each other, and the velcro
around them is barely holding it together. So now you

(01:37:20):
have a bullet in the form of a neutral proton
a neutron, and it hits this thing where the magnets
want to come apart and the velcrow is barely holding
it together. Well, that idea led to the chain reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
And then nuclear bomb.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Well that was the fission bomb, and then a geometer.
So I'm a geometer and not a physicist, and a
physicist named Edward Teller, and the geometers named Stanislaus Oulom said,
I wonder if there's a way to take the chemical
bomb that creates the fission bomb and use the fission

(01:37:57):
bomb as the detonator for a fusion bomb. So bomb
number one, bomb number two, bomb number three, And what
they figured out is that the only way to create
that is to reflect light in a particular way to
compress hydrogen into helium and release energy, because anything other

(01:38:23):
than light wouldn't get to the tertiary stage fast enough
before the atomic bomb, like you're using a Heroshima Nagasaki
as a detonator. That's how crazy it is. So that
chain of ideas, which is maybe there's a neutral version
of the proton. Maybe I can send that into the
middle of an atom that's very heavy that was built

(01:38:45):
in a stellar collision. Maybe if I have a bunch
of those uranium or plutonium type things, each one when
they break apart, will have more neutrons inside that it's
more neutral protons, so that will hit more nuclei that
will release more energy, and maybe that can then focus
the light the gamma radiation that comes off of this thing,
or who knows what to compress a narrow rod to

(01:39:10):
create fusion, which only occurs on the Sun in the sun,
but do it on Earth. So we're going to take
a little bit of the Sun on Earth. That chain
of ideas was the most dangerous thing anybody's ever think.
And that's why when you try to do physics, you
don't know, why are people making fun of me, Why

(01:39:31):
are they being mean? Why are they dissuading me from talking.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
I don't know you have a suspicion.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
Well, there was a guy named Jack Raper, the unfortunately
named mister Jack Raper, who was a reporter in Cleveland,
who for some reason during the war in nineteen forty four,
decided to vacation in New Mexico. So he goes to
New Mexico and he comes back and he says, I've
got a crazy story. There's a city that nobody knows

(01:40:00):
with a mayor who's supposed to be the sewod Einstein,
and it's the most secretive city in the world, and
the mayor is working on a doomsday weapon, and even
the people who live in the city don't know what
it is. And he writes the story of Los Alamos
and publishes in nineteen forty four the Scoop of the Millennium,

(01:40:20):
to say nothing of the century. Nobody knows about this article,
and it's called Forbidden City.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
We pretended that it never happen. For those that don't know.
Los Alamos is where the atomic the nuclear bomb was
I guess conceived and brought to life and tested.

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
Well it was really, it was really designed there, and
most of the nuclear processing took place at other sites,
whether Hanford or oak Ridge, I'm not sure, and it
was tested a short distance away at the Trinity site.
So go watch the movie, Oppenheimer will. But this is

(01:41:00):
why physics physicists are the only occupation in the country
that doesn't have full free speech.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
So are you suggesting that there's dangers in believing in
more dimensions, that maybe some people might not want to
be known in the same way that we didn't want.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
My point is, I don't think our government knows the
real secrets of physics. If I had to make a
bet tomorrow, I don't think there's a secret government office
that knows physics, Okay. I think that there were a
bunch of very smart people who knew how dangerous physics was,

(01:41:41):
and that the idea that we would continue to do
it in public struck them as insane.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
Because it could lead to destruction.

Speaker 1 (01:41:49):
When I tell you that the most dangerous idea in
human history is maybe there's a neutral version of the
proton that's supposed to sound insane, but the entire chain
of idea results in nuclear fusion happening on Earth at
the direction of the President of the United States, And
that's what I'm trying to get at which people don't understand,

(01:42:12):
which is you probably don't even realize that the Department
of Energy is really the Department of Physics because we
pretend that it's the Department of Energy. We had a
war department that became the Department of Defense.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
We're scared of the possibility of physics.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
We don't even want to talk about it. Literally, no
other occupation has lost free speech like physics. There's a
special doctrine called restricted data that says you cannot write

(01:42:52):
physics on a napkin, even if you have nothing to
do with the government. I think, even if you're not
an American, if it has anything that could possibly have
to do with nuclear weapons, in other words, any advance
that might have to do with nuclear weapons, you have
to recognize that the instant you put pen to paper

(01:43:14):
or you start talking to somebody, you're committing a violation
of the nineteen seventeen Espionage Act. And if you think
that's crazy, start exploring the words restricted data, nineteen seventeen,
Spionage Act, nineteen forty six, and nineteen fifty four, Atomic
energy X, the doctrine of born secret. It is illegal

(01:43:36):
to pursue Q clearance data if you don't have a
Q clearance, But if you're creating Q clearance data out
of your own head as a byproduct of trying to
do physics, you are actually potentially committing a capital offense.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
And your theory of everything, the theory you just talked
to me about that, what does that mean for the
for the average person that's listening to this in terms
of we don't know that they should.

Speaker 1 (01:44:01):
Well, this is my point. Did Rutherford know what he
was doing?

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
So I talk about this a lot, but I do
think it's probably one of the greatest lyrics ever in
any song, and unfortunately it occurs in a song that
got way too popular, the baffled King composing Hallelujah. That line,
a baffled king does not realize what he is doing

(01:44:28):
when he composes. Rutherford was a baffled king. Maybe there
is a neutral version of the proton he was composing.
The end of the human.

Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Race and your ideas about the nature of reality. I'm
a baffled person and your proposal, I am baffled. I
don't know what it leads to. It is what I'm
trying to tell you. But your assertion is that there's
more than this dimension that we understand, more than I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
Telling you that I can name for you what particles
there are left to be found. H And what comes
back to me is you don't have any predictions. And
I'm thinking this doesn't even make sense. Literally, I'm telling
you there are maybe there's a neutral version of the

(01:45:15):
proton doesn't begin to talk about all the things that
I'm talking about, so many new forces, so many new particles,
ways to go in. There's no longer an arrow of
time in my theory, so you could live forever theoretically,
what does it mean if you think about a final theory?

(01:45:37):
And again, by the way, I just want to say something.
I say my theory sometimes when I'm having to defend it,
but it isn't mine. It just is. You know, Everest
didn't belong to Sir Edmund Hillary, or to Mallory, or
even to the survey or for whom the mountain is named.

(01:46:01):
When you chose to make the first ascent on at Everest,
you just chose a route, and then you either did
or did not traverse the route. We don't know whether
Mallory may have succeeded, but my point is that this
isn't my theory. There is a theory that's there. It

(01:46:21):
might be wrong, it's possible I may have screwed it up,
but it's got so much in it that I have
no idea what it means.

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
And the simple way to understand this theory is that
there's dimensions that exist beyond the ones that we know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
We already know from Einstein that these dimensions are implicitly
in Einstein's theory. Every single dimension that I'm talking about
is being constructed out of the four that we began with.
When I put the cups here and the coaster, the
edges were calculated from the vertices, and the faces were

(01:47:02):
calculated from the edges. My point being, these dimensions are
already here. And because the dimensions are already here, they
were already present in Einstein's theory all along. When you
ask for what Einstein's real equation is, we actually don't
think about it that way. We call it the Einstein
field equations plural. How many of them are there? Ten?

(01:47:27):
Why are there ten? Because there are six edges and
four vertices that weren't accounted for. They're already in Einstein's theory.
We just didn't take them seriously as directions you could
go in.

Speaker 2 (01:47:48):
You've had about the simulation theory, haven't you Why I.

Speaker 1 (01:47:50):
Don't want to talk about it really Well, again, it's
the LM problem. The really interesting thing comes from I
don't know. Maybe maybe the cosmos is traversible. Maybe times
travel replaces time travel. You see, if I flip all

(01:48:14):
of the dimensions of time and space, so I have
one of time, three of space. In Einstein's theory, Okay,
the time dimension gets a minus sign that the three
spatial dimensions get a plus.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
Signed and the three spatial dimensions are x, y and z.
Yeah Z forgive me, which is for a simple person
depth with in height. Yeah, you can go look forward, backwards, up,
down right.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Okay, So we have three dimensions there, and then we
have one of time because the conversation takes place over time.
You're moving around. Now, flip the time dimension to being
plus when it was minus before, and all the plus
dimensions to being minus. So I have now I have
three time dimensions and one space dimension. It would look

(01:48:56):
exactly the same. The one space dimension would take the
function of time, and the three time dimensions would have
the function of space. We don't even teach people the
idea that there is not necessarily an arrow of time.
If time is not one dimensional, the only dimension that

(01:49:19):
has an arrow is one. If something has one dimension,
you can say, and you know I tried to do
this on Rogan. I said, if you have a cassette
tape and you want to go back to an earlier
song again, your younger listeners will have no idea what
we're talking about. You have to go back through all

(01:49:39):
of the songs before. But if you have a stylus
on a turntable, some of them will be hipsters with
vinyl in their own homes. You can lift the stylus
up and it doesn't need to go back and unplay
each song in reverse. Okay, you may be able to
go back in time without going back through time. I

(01:50:04):
don't know what this means, but it's a lot like
saying maybe there's a neutral version of the proton. Now,
what I'm concerned about is that essentially none of my
physics friends know that there is a doctrine of restricted data.
They've never heard of the nineteen forty six and fifty
four Atomic Energy Acts. They don't know that the Department
of Energy that funds them is really the Department of Physics.

(01:50:26):
They don't know the extent to which we went to
hide all of this stuff. They don't know that they're
not allowed to talk to foreign nationals from hostile nations
on our own soil because of a doctrine called deemed exports.
There's an entire hidden world of national security, and the
penalty for talking about national security with people who don't

(01:50:47):
live that is that you're a conspiracy theorist. It's like,
do you have this terminology? Do you know the acts?
Do you want to google it? Well, you're This is
also just something that's really interesting about thefo UAP world.
We had this admission recently that the government knew that
at a minimum, and again I don't think this is

(01:51:09):
by anywhere close to the full story. At a minimum,
there were secret, fake special access programs. Do you know about
special access program Super secret programs are called special access programs.
Then there's a further category called unacknowledged special access programs
or use apps, which is you can know that a
special access program exists, like you know, maybe warhead recovery

(01:51:35):
might be a known one, but then like there might
be an unacknowledged special access program, which is like theft
of foreign nuclear warheads, which it's not even on the books.
Only only the super secret lawmakers you know, in the
Gang of Eight or whatever it is, can know that
that exists. And then there are further designations of secretness.

(01:51:56):
There's waived and bigoted, so you can have like a
way bigoted, unacknowledged special access program and you don't know
any of this language. And then there's this chorus of
morons who the instant you start to educate people about
the existence of the super secret Squirrel Club rise up

(01:52:17):
and say this is all conspiracy theory. And you're saying,
wait a second, we just admitted info UAP land that
we have a fake special access program, which I predicted
on Joe Rogan I said, we may be faking a
UFO situation. The cost and the penalty at a personal

(01:52:42):
level for letting people know how the government keeps secrets
is personal destruction.

Speaker 2 (01:52:49):
The US faked UFO program.

Speaker 1 (01:52:51):
Yes, correct, you don't know about this. I think the
Wall Street Journal had an article about it. So these
guys knew when they filed their reports on the UFO
UAP that there actually is, at a minimum a fake
UFO UAP program.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
Why would they want to fake UFOs. This is so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
Did you happen to watch Joe Rogan episode nineteen forty
five where I talked about the whole history of the
Golden Age of general relativity and its relationship to UFO, UAP,
anti gravity research and the atomic bomb.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
Okay, when we invaded the beaches of Normandy on D
Day that was called Operation Overlord. We had an entirely
fake invasion planned of Norway called Operation Fortitude that was
part of Operation Bodyguard, which is part of just total deception.

(01:53:48):
And why because we were building up troops to do
something huge, so we tried to convince We like planted
plans for the invasion of Norway on dead bodies to
wash up on beaches so Germans would find. We fake
stuff all the time. That's what we do. And you

(01:54:10):
can't talk about what we do that is deceptive without
being ruined by what are called COVID influence operations. Like
if you'll watch my Twitter account, you'll see all sorts
of accounts descend on it. Fraud, Charlotte and grifter blah
blah blah blah blah. Some of that is just people

(01:54:30):
being mean but you'll notice that, like if I really
start talking about physics, and I start talking about security,
and I start talking about things that anyone can google
and most of us don't think to do it, suddenly
it gets really, really intense. And the whole point is
it's supposed to be untraceable. It's supposed to be a

(01:54:54):
way in which, like almost certainly we know a ton
about what happened in the worl On Institute of Virology
because of two bioweapons conventions that we were signatureies to
in which we ratified the Geneva Convention and a Bioweapons
Convention in the nineteen seventies. But that's not top of

(01:55:14):
mind for ordinary people. They just watched, you know, their
great grandma die, and they watched their children get sick,
and they watched their own brain fog. They can't know
whether that was a bioweapon that we were working on
coming out of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
with Ralph Berrick's lab. You know, we're up to constant

(01:55:39):
secret stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:55:40):
Why would they fake the UFOs though? What was the
what was that distraction?

Speaker 1 (01:55:44):
Did you ever see the B two bower?

Speaker 2 (01:55:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
What if you saw that before we were ready to
say it existed.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
Yeah, you'd think it was.

Speaker 1 (01:55:52):
So wouldn't it be better if we had a UFO
story ready to go when we had cool aerospace?

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Oh okay, so you're saying they're working on something they
didn't want you to know.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
What's more, what if we convinced China or Russia or
Iran that we had incredible powers that they don't have,
then they might be very reluctant to strike us, or
they might waste a tremendous amount of money developing anti
gravity technology when there's no such thing. There are plenty

(01:56:23):
of good reasons to fake such thing. Why would we
fake Why would we plan an invasion of Norway if
we weren't going to invade?

Speaker 2 (01:56:30):
But if that's a distraction technique, do you have any
hypothesis as to what was going on there?

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
But that's not my job because as soon as you
do that, I know that the quality of my guessing
is not going to be at the quality of my
detecting when we're up to bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
So in other words, if you ask me why is
physics stagnant? I can say I don't know, but there's
a decent chance that we know how dangerous physics is
and that it's crazy to do it in an open
university environment. We've taken precautions. We have a system of
national laboratories, which are effectively our secret university system where

(01:57:10):
you have to be an American, So we're using our
regular universities, and the whole world comes through it. You know,
we have Chinese people learning physics side by side our
own people.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
And I guess you're saying that you don't know if
UFOs exist, but you're sure now that they were faking this.

Speaker 1 (01:57:25):
I'm absolutely positive that we have unacknowledged programs that have
UFO written on the side of them. In other words,
the number of people whoat who repeat strikingly similar things,
who appear to be completely sober in every other respect,

(01:57:45):
with no known acting ability. There is no way in
the world that these people just spontaneously have decided to
destroy their sanity, their career, and their reputation. I've got
you and a minimum we're faking. I think we are
doing a lot more than faking a UFO program. I
don't know what it is, and I also would not

(01:58:08):
be talking about this on a large podcast, but for
one thing, I have a particular hatred for one aspect
of our intelligence community. And I don't mean that I
disagree or don't like, or I'm not uncomfortable when our
secret squirrel club inside the intelligence world and inside in

(01:58:31):
particular covert operations, targets our own people who are not
read into these programs for personal destruction, reputational destruction, mental destruction,
economic destruction. We take our best people and we make
fun of them, and we belittle them, and we destroy
their families, their lives, their ability to earn. I have

(01:58:53):
a very strong sense that you never destroy your best people.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Do you think you're under attack?

Speaker 1 (01:59:00):
Let me talk about Leo Zillard instead. Leo Zillard is
the father of the Manhattan Project.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
Which was the way the nuclear bomb was created.

Speaker 1 (01:59:08):
That's right. He was not allowed to go inside the
Manhattan Project because they didn't trust him. He was a genius.
He was the idea for the Manhattan Project. He and
Einstein made sure that it happened. The government barely trusted Oppenheimer.
If you saw the film, what they did with Leo

(01:59:30):
Zillard was they minded him. They knew how good he was,
they knew how important he was. They listened to him
and they didn't destroy him. He undoubtedly knew that the
program was going on, but he wasn't allowed inside the program.
I think that's okay. I think it's okay that our

(01:59:51):
security state recognizes that some people are not cut out
to keep secrets. Some people are not cut out to
die with certain facts that have to be kept hidden.
That's fine. The desire of our government to destroy people
who have no idea what they've tripped over because our

(02:00:12):
government isn't good enough to keep its own secrets. This
is an abomination. You cannot destroy your a team.

Speaker 2 (02:00:23):
Who are you referring to when you say people are
being destroyed? Are you referring to people like yourself?

Speaker 1 (02:00:29):
You know, if you look at, for example, Jeffrey Epstein.
Jeffrey Epstein conducted a conference called Confronting Gravity. I don't
know who Jeffrey Epstein was, but I would certainly bet
money that he was a product of at least one
or more elements of the intelligence.

Speaker 2 (02:00:50):
Community, the CIA, the FBI.

Speaker 1 (02:00:53):
That those are ours, right. Department of Homeland Security has
some of the stuff geospatial intelligence and says some of this,
you know, it's a large network. I'm talking about people
like David Grush. I'm talking about people potentially like David Fraverr.
I'm talking about people like Jake Barber. I'm talking about

(02:01:17):
scientists like Leo Zillard. Imagine if Leo Zillard didn't know
that the Manhattan Project was going on, or Jack Raper,
a journalist who broke a story. These people all think
that they're doing their jobs. I desperately want to know
why Jeffrey Epstein knew so much about my work, and

(02:01:42):
I want to know why he was connected to my
graduate program. I was in the Harvard Mathematics department. Jeffrey
Epstein was absolutely connected to the Harvard Math department. I
want to know why.

Speaker 2 (02:01:55):
How was he connected to that department.

Speaker 1 (02:01:57):
You're pushing me to say things I'm not going to say,
but I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
I'm curious. I'm not trying to push you.

Speaker 1 (02:02:02):
I understand, but I'm just not going to do it.
I'm saying that anybody who wants.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
To you say he was connected to the math department.

Speaker 1 (02:02:09):
Of the Harvard Mathematics department.

Speaker 2 (02:02:11):
How did you know he was connected?

Speaker 1 (02:02:13):
You can google it. You could google it right now.
This is not I can point at all sorts of
stuff that's hidden in plane site as well.

Speaker 2 (02:02:23):
I'll take your word for it. And the assertion that
I'm picking up on is that Jeffrey Epstein was planted
in your world to keep it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:30):
I'm not saying these planned I don't know who he was,
I don't know who ran him. He certainly was not
a financier in any standard sense. Really that was a
cover story.

Speaker 2 (02:02:39):
Yes, the way that we know Jeffrey Epstein in the
UK especially, it's just this guy who was this rich
guy who had this island, who brought people there and
then did these despicable things.

Speaker 1 (02:02:49):
Disgraced financier Jeffrey Epst Yeah, that's what we that's the story.
It's graced financier Jeffrey Epstein. It's called perseveration. He was
a disgraced financier. What kind of a financier, A disgraced one?
What was his name? Oh, it was disgraced fin answer
Jeffrey Epstein. They perseverate that into your mind so that
you auto complete that in your LLM life. Do you
believe that that's what Jeffrey Epstein was you met him, Yeah,

(02:03:14):
I can tell the financia he wasn't a financier of
the day I met him. What was he He was
a weird guy, didn't seem to know a lot about
currency trading, claiming to run a multi billion dollar FX
hedge fund.

Speaker 2 (02:03:33):
When you say a wid guy, what made him weigh.

Speaker 1 (02:03:35):
Same stuff I've said on Chris Willie. I'm not going
to go back through that. Just my point is you're
getting a different interview, right. So what I'm trying to
get at is Jeffrey Epstein knew a tremendous amount about
my work when nobody knew anything about my work, and
he had a pipeline into me that I didn't understand,
which is that he was connected to my graduate program.

(02:03:56):
And you can check out the conference called Exploring GRAVI.

Speaker 2 (02:04:01):
And host a physical workshop called Confronting Gravity.

Speaker 1 (02:04:04):
Confronting Gravity. That's right, Yeah, what isef Jeffrey Epsy is
very focused on gravity?

Speaker 2 (02:04:10):
Was a gravity conference. It was about gravity. Yeah, What
the fuck was he doing talking about bloody gravity? If
he's a financier.

Speaker 1 (02:04:17):
It was very important to get Nobel laureates and some
of the smartest people on earth to come to the
Virgin Islands and talk about gravity. Stephen Hawkins was there,
David Gross was there, Lawrence Kraus was there. Lisa Randall
was there right before his conviction, and I'm telling you
he was very focused on the Harvard Math department, and
he knew all about me in ways that he wasn't

(02:04:37):
supposed to.

Speaker 2 (02:04:42):
I have to I have to be clear. I have
to be clear on my understanding of what you're saying
from what I understood. And you can say, step I'm
not going to answer that whatever, but I just have
to because you've opened up a curiosity hole in my mind.
So let me try and fill it, even if it's
the conversation with Chris.

Speaker 1 (02:04:56):
I'll just evade you.

Speaker 2 (02:04:57):
Fine, Yeah, I find you're within the right to evade,
and I hold the right to ask. Which is so?
Is what I'm hearing is you believe I'm just going
to say it how I think it is. What I'm
hearing is you believe that Jeffrey Epstein was not a financier.
He was planted in some way to it was a construct.
Is what I said. He was a construct in some

(02:05:18):
way to mess with the progression of physics.

Speaker 1 (02:05:25):
Jeffrey Epstein, apparently I think some I'll tell you what
I said when I met him. When the meaning was over,
I immediately called my wife and I said, I have
just met a construct. She said, what do you mean?
I said, this person is not who they claim to be.
Somebody has constructed this human being to be something that
they are not, which is a Hedge fund genius, somebody

(02:05:48):
who could understand the euro and the end like nobody else. Bullshit,
not true. I believe that whoever constructed Jeffrey Epstein was
running multiple different programs through the same thing, having put
in a large initial investment. It wasn't about one thing.

(02:06:11):
If you build a mall, you don't just have clothing
stores in the mall. You have a food court in
the mall. Right, you have jewelry in the mall. You
have all sorts of different things in the mall. Jeffrey
Epstein was a construct of something that was running multiple things.
One of those things was science, and I don't think
that the science and the pedophilia were necessarily in the

(02:06:33):
same bucket. He was funding all sorts of people. I
don't think everybody at that. You know, part of the
problem with calling his plane the Lolita Express and calling
his island Pedophile Island is that you just can't see
all the different things that were going through this guy.

(02:06:53):
I don't think almost any of those scientists are exposed.
You know, maybe a few of them, but very few
of them to any thing really horrible. I think he
was trying to keep a periscope on everything that was interesting.
And I think that his girlfriend's father, Robert Maxwell, was
all through scientific pub publishing, and I think Pergrimon Press

(02:07:17):
was in part a control mechanism for making sure that
revolutionary discoveries were taking place within a framework. Anybody can look.
You can write a substack article and you can hit post,
and suddenly the world has access to your substack article.

(02:07:38):
That is a nightmare. What if somebody posts, you know,
weaponized anthrax. What if they do the equivalent of saying,
what if there's a neutral proton?

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
So you think he was controlling science.

Speaker 1 (02:07:52):
I think that Robert Maxwell was in part trying to
control science. I think Jeffrey Epstein was in part training
to fund science trying to control it. I don't really know.
Oh again, you know, part of the problem with why
conspiracy theorists have a bad name is that they're not
content to live in ignorance. And I mean, I am

(02:08:14):
I know something is really off with the story. If
you look at me saying things like, you don't know
whether Biden is going to make it to November. Ha ha, Eric,
you know what, an idiot blah blah blah. Okay, then
he has a debate, he doesn't make it to November.
You know, I'm not no stradamus. I'm just dumb enough
to say something in public that makes sense. Let me

(02:08:37):
say something in public that makes sense. Our national security
people suck at their jobs. The people who are in
charge of the Department of Energy, which is masking the
Department of Physics, which is masking the Department of Nuclear Weapons. Right,
the Atomic Energy Acts, which are really about atomic weaponry.

(02:09:00):
Is Adams for peace or who knows what? Jeffrey Epstein,
who is not a disgraced financier. The newspapers that have
always had a national interest component and have liaison so
that they can work with the CIA and the State Department,
and they do each other's bidding and scratch to this
whole network. Is that is what I've called managed reality.

(02:09:21):
We live in managed reality. We are all in some
version of the Truman Show. And you can look at it.
You can google it. I can give you a million
search terms. And every time I give a million search terms,
you'll watch my reputation get torn apart. Are you gonna
blame me that you didn't know what the whole of
society approach is because you didn't know the Daniel Ineway

(02:09:43):
Center for Security in the Pacific came up with an
idea for soft fascism to fight hybrid wars. You didn't
know what hybrid warfare. Look look at my talk at
ARC Jordan Peterson's group, the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. It
said almost two million views. And why is it? Because
people are saying I didn't know these terms? Did you
know what the Human Terrain Project is? You know about

(02:10:04):
human terrain? You're a mountain, I'm a valley. And instead
of war planners figuring out how do we use that
valley to capture that mountaintop because it gives us an
eagle's nest to snipe from or whatever, they say. Okay,
this is the second most powerful podcast in the world,
second to Joe Rogan. How do we capture?

Speaker 2 (02:10:26):
Fuck? Leave me a line.

Speaker 1 (02:10:28):
No, but that's what I'm trying to say. You're a
human terrain. Yeah. When the Human Terrain wakes up and says,
wait a minute, I'm human terrain. Well, my feeling is
if you don't want me to talk about this on
a podcast, then keep your terms separate. Nobody knew the
term pre bunked malinformation? Do you know what pre bunked malinformation?

(02:10:49):
Malinformation is information we don't want to get out Technically.
People try to pretend that it's information that will be misinterpreted,
but really it's real stuff that is deleterious to the
narratives that we're trying to push forward and what we're
trying to do. And pre bunked it means discredited, so

(02:11:09):
we know it debunked just we have to debunk this information.
We get that, But you didn't know that we had
to prebunk malin information, which is we have to destroy
truth tellers.

Speaker 2 (02:11:20):
What do you think that means for people like me
as podcaster? Is you know, because we're doing these long
form conversations, I take.

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
A snapback, You'll say that was a really interesting talk,
and then you'll have somebody else on who'll be talking
about the importance of melatonin and how we don't understand
the role of sleep, and they'll have somebody else, you know,
on who will be talking about how do you do
a a clothing brand from scratch and turn it into

(02:11:50):
a billion dollar unicorn. You're not going to stay here
on this topic. This is your time with me, and
it'll have some effect and it'll start to fade. And
that's what this is. I'd love to be doing my podcast.

(02:12:11):
I just don't know how to do it safely. I
want to talk about taking our lives back from the
intelligence community. I want to talk about taking our lives
back from Silicon Valley, even though those people are my friends.
I want to talk about taking my life back from
the phone, from despair, from not having a future. I

(02:12:32):
want to talk about having a glorious existence that is
not mediated by morons who sit inside the Beltway and
play with large budgets and hurt people, particularly really good
people who are good at their job, who are trying
to figure out how to advance humankind, their family, the
national interest, and get foul. I did not ask for

(02:12:55):
Jeffrey Epstein to fall into my life. I met him once,
but it was enough to know, Holy cow, the Harvard
Math Department can't be what I think it is. Why
was he there? I didn't even I never heard his
name when I was there. Is that where you met
him in No No, no, no. I think very powerful

(02:13:18):
people at JP Morgan told me I needed to meet him.
He didn't want to talk about finance. He wanted to
talk about science.

Speaker 2 (02:13:29):
You can't do your podcast safely.

Speaker 1 (02:13:33):
My employer was a special informant to the FBI. He's
like one of my closest friends. I'm not going to
say who it is.

Speaker 2 (02:13:41):
Your employee.

Speaker 1 (02:13:43):
Yeah, and one of my closest friends. I live under
a periscope practice scope is really what I meant. But yeah,
I don't. I want to do physics, man, I'm really
really good at it, you know. And if we have

(02:14:08):
an idea that we shouldn't do physics in public, I
would like to have a call from somebody inside. Hey, Eric,
we need you to come in. Okay, great, what's up.
But I didn't use your resources, I didn't use your grants.
Nobody ever informed me, My god, nobody ever informed me
about restricted data. How many people on Earth know that

(02:14:32):
there's a doctrine that says physicists don't have free speech.
We can execute you for doing your job. It's ever
been tested in the courts, and I hope that the
Supreme Court will not allow that. But you know, if
we have a problem that is so serious in theoretical
physics that it needs the world's largest exemption from free speech,

(02:14:56):
we need to amend the Constitution. You can't just do
this as a sneak attack where you reserve the right
casually to hook the nineteen seventeen Espionage Act up against
the nineteen forty six and fifty four Atomic Energy Acts.
I've canvassed my physics colleagues. One of the memes against me,

(02:15:16):
which is very funny, is that no physicists take me
seriously when I'm in their offices all the time. I
just don't know what my life is. And with this
latest advent of warrant in the Middle East, are you
really going to pretend that if you can google all
of these things, that I have no idea what I'm

(02:15:36):
talking about. I'm looking to have a conversation with my
own government. I'm looking to have a conversation about theoretical physics,
and I can do it quietly. But I have rights,
and I do not believe that the nineteen forty six
and nineteen fifty four Atomic Energy Acts are constitutional. Try me,

(02:16:01):
there is no restricted data. You can't do that to
an American and you can't just keep mounting covert influence campaigns.
You know, I just spent five days in the physics department.
I'm not allowed to say that it was five days
in the physics department as a visitor. I gave a talk.

(02:16:22):
I'm not allowed to say that I gave a talk.
I don't know what this is, and I'm tired of it.
You know, it's just like if you're managing the Middle
East this badly, if you're managing physics this badly, if

(02:16:45):
you're managing the national economy this badly, if you screw
it up COVID this badly by getting inside of the
Lancet and Nature. You know, peer review is this fake
thing that's supposedly stretched back to the founding of the
Royal Society, and it's very clear from the scholarship around
it that it comes out of period between nineteen sixty

(02:17:08):
five and nineteen seventy five, initiated by the Medicare Act,
predicated on the need for editors for the journal expansion
founded by Pergamon Press and Robert Maxwell. By nineteen seventy five,
there's a giant battle between the NSF and both fiscal
and cultural conservatives against something called man a course of

(02:17:32):
study or macOS. Where peer review was born in a
Utah clinic, came out of the medical literature because the
federal government in nineteen sixty five with the Medicare Act,
picked up the need to pay for so many medical procedures.
They wanted to say, why are we assigning this many
medical procedures. The doctors circled the wagons and said, we

(02:17:53):
will peer review each other. Then by nineteen seventy five,
the NSF was under the microscope and they used peer
review as a self defense of last resort to say
we will be reviewing each other. Right, peer review is
a myth. The scholarship is clear as day. I can't

(02:18:18):
keep going on the world's largest podcasts saying everything that
can be googled and figured out and just constantly have
as my reward that the government refuses to have a
conversation with me and sends its gaggle of idiots to
harass me.

Speaker 2 (02:18:35):
You think it's doing that, it's sending a gaggler, Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:18:38):
I do. I do think. I think that some of
them are actual idiots who just enjoy having causing problems.
But I think more than anything, we have a real problem.
Science is too powerful the real If you wanted to
just cut to the ultimate core of this, If four

(02:18:59):
amino ascid can shut down Planet Earth, if what is it?
A nine page paper solving the double spend problem can
create a new currency not backed by violence, but backed
by mathematics. If the concept of an inner product in
a large vector space generate something you can't tell isn't

(02:19:22):
a human being in twenty seventeen, do you have any
idea what the power of the human mind is at
this point? Linear algebra can create something that you would
fall in love with. It can create the most beautiful
music you can imagine, or it can animate a photo

(02:19:44):
of a dead relative so that you can actually have
the experience of having some video of you with a
great grandparent you can't even remember. Science is the most amazing, powerful,
crazy stuff possible, and we spend a fortune try to
convince people that scientists are worthless, that scientists are incapable,

(02:20:06):
and in large measure they've convinced the scientists themselves. My colleagues,
the supposed physicists will spend their entire lives pretending to
do physics and retire without ever having actually done any
I was in this physics department. I was just in.
It's been a long time since I've spent that long
as a visitor. The top people in this physics department

(02:20:32):
professed that they had no interest in the physical world,
that they only cared about the mathematics that they were doing.
And I just thought, you're in a theoretical physics group
and you profess openly that you have no interest whatsoever
in the physical world. Well done. I don't know who

(02:20:53):
you were, I don't know how you did it, but
it took you four decades to get the physicists to
stop caring about the physical world somehow. What we did
is we stopped the world's most powerful, in the world's
most important group for making progress. And why Elon Musk

(02:21:14):
is not out here saving this by just throwing a
few billion at it? You know, Elon, if you're out there,
it's ad Astra yes or no. Mars is a stopgap message.
Do you want to go to the stars? Is there
something we don't know to the Department of Energy? Do
you want to have conversations? Is there anyone at all

(02:21:35):
out here? That's my question. That's why I do the podcasts,
and it's by the way I'm repeating myself. I've said
this before, send lawyers, guns and money. There's no one
out here. But I will say this, if we could
get out of here, you know, in terms of transcendence,
in terms of things that are really exciting, there's nothing

(02:21:56):
that I had greater pleasure at as a father than
taking my children from me to your shs. We take
the dog and go to a secret location outside of
Los Angeles. It's quite dark, and we just lie under
the sky and watch for hours, you know, and look
up at the heavens and think, my god, that's a destination.
That's someplace I could go. I don't think that there's

(02:22:19):
a more inspiring thing than to figure out the infinity
of space. All of these galaxies and the deep field
photographs of these space telescopes filled with worlds, and we're
stuck here. It's like it's enough already, time to go.
Let's have some fun. That's that's really what I'm excited about.

(02:22:42):
Been great, great to be here, Thank you for being here.
Super fascinating, and it's spent my brain in several different directions.
At the same time, I want to I want to
bring it back to the person who's who's got to
the end of this conversation, and they're sat at home

(02:23:02):
in their box of shorts, maybe listening on their iPhone
as they fall asleep wherever they are in the world,
or on a train or plane or whatever, and allow
you to offer them some kind of closing message that
might make their life better in some way. It's a
broad brief, but I think it's the most important brief,
which is, you know, having heard everything we've talked about today,

(02:23:24):
what advice would you give the listener, an actionable piece
of advice so that they could live a subjectively better life.
The songs of Tom Learr are pretty terrific, as are
the operettas of Gilbert and Sullivan. You might want to
explore the Azores as well as the Indonesian archipelago. Indonesian's

(02:23:48):
one of the easiest languages to learn because it's been
denuded of most of the complexity that screw up people
who have a hard time learning other languages. By a
poster of tropical fruit and make sure that you visit
at every single one on that poster before it's time
for lights out. Consider Box B Minor Mass and the
Cello suites particularly by Pablo Casol's and take a serious

(02:24:09):
listen to Evicsidy singing Stormy Monday in an album called
Live from Blues Alley to see if you really know
how to feel things. I think Professor long Hair's Big
Chief is one of the most brilliant pieces of piano
Music's absolutely inspiring. And if you really liked that, James
Carroll Booker the Third has an album called The Resurrection

(02:24:31):
of the Bayou Maharaja. Seriously think about visiting the island
of Saint Helena in the South Atlantic. Take a look
at Kurt Jaimungole's channel. He's doing amazing stuff being done
by no one else on earth. I think that Chris
Buck is really amazing, and if you think that Crossroads
is good, have a listen to his version of Miss

(02:24:53):
You by the Rolling Stones. An incredible groove and I
didn't really appreciate it the first time I heard it.
I think that the people making spark amps at Positive
Grid and my friends at Neural dsp with the quad
Cortex will blow your mind with how much great audio
equipment you can make. You can get a good electric

(02:25:16):
guitar for a few hundred bucks thanks to advances in China.
Put it into an open tuning and buy yourself a
slide or just slide a glass along it, and you'll
be able to play most songs that you care about
within a minute or two, maybe three, because you only
need three chords. Get married. It may not work out,

(02:25:36):
it may be miserable, have some kids. There's nothing else
great to do on this planet. At least give it
a try, and if your parents won't pressure you to
do it, I'm happy to do it. Try to keep
this thing going. Try to keep this thing going. Try
to dream big about legacy. Don't feel embarrassed about wanting
to conquer the world or leave a permanent stain. Get

(02:25:58):
out of this moment where everybody's worried about narcissism and drama.
Listen for media showers. They're announced regularly, nobody actually does
anything about them, and it's worth inconveniencing yourself with people
you love and take the dog really seriously. Think about
whether you want to pile on when you see what
is almost certainly a federal or other campaign targeting people

(02:26:24):
who are standing up for you, whether they're trying to
figure out where COVID came from, trying to figure out
who is behind Jeffrey Epstein. Recognize that almost everything you've
been taught to do in terms of hating Israel as
part of somebody's campaign out of cutter. The situation causes
incredibly dire Don't stop caring about the people who are

(02:26:44):
living under that. Recognize that the Persians are not the Moullas.
Get involved. Wish your country's leadership well, even if you
didn't vote for them and you think that they're horrible people,
They've got very hard work to do. Be good to
each other other. Try it's a grand adventure, and make

(02:27:05):
sure you have some fun before it lights out. That's it.

Speaker 2 (02:27:12):
We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves
a question for the next guests, not knowing who they're
leaving it for. And the question that was left for you,
I love this question. What is the problem that you
are doing the most mental gymnastics to avoid pass?

Speaker 1 (02:27:40):
No, I know the answer, it's not appropriate for your audience.
One of the things about being in the hot seat
on podcasts is that it is not right to force
anyone to respond to a question. I know how to
falsify an answer to that, and I'm not going to
do that, going to show the answer to that question,

(02:28:01):
because it's not appropriate, but it's a great question. Feel
free to leave it for someone else because it doesn't
seem fair. Whoever you were, Thank you for the question.

Speaker 2 (02:28:11):
Obviously, my reaction was just tremendous curiosity, which would be
a natural reaction to what you just said. Thank you
for a great interview. Thank you so much for being here.
I appreciate you. It's so unbelievably fascinating, and you've given
me so much. Unfortunately, you've given me a lot of answers,
but you've given me even more questions, and maybe that's
the product of a good.

Speaker 1 (02:28:31):
We'll do it again.

Speaker 2 (02:28:32):
Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
I appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks. We launched these conversation
cards and they sold out, and we launched them again,
and they sold out again. We launched them again, and
they sold out again because people love playing these with
colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family.
And we've also got a big audience that use them
as journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on
the Diary of a CEO, they leave a question for

(02:28:55):
the next guest in the Diary, and I've sat here
with some of the most incredible people in the world,
and they've left all all of these questions in the Diary,
and I've ranked them from one to three in terms
of the depth, one being a starter question and level three.
If you look on the back here, this is a
level three becomes a much deeper question that builds even
more connection. If you turn the cards over and you

(02:29:17):
scan that QR code, you can see who answered the
card and watch the video of them answering it in
real time. So if you would like to get your
hands on some of these conversation cards, go to the
diary dot com or look at the link in the
description below.