Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The last for with Laurence o' donald starts right now, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Lawrence, Hey Jen. Andrew Weissman is back.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He will be Jove.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Yes, we need him, and he will be joining us
tonight in our coverage of the Epstein files and the
Justice Department's involvement on that. He of course is an
expert on all of that, and we actually have some
breaking news to deliver during this hour on this Jen, so.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We have to get right to it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Get right too.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I'll be in my car listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, thanks Jen, Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're going to be breaking news during this hour about
the Epstein files.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We will be joined by a guest.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Who believes that he knows where the birthday book is
that contains a letter to Jeffrey Epstein on his fiftieth
birthday that bears Donald Trump's name. That is the same
letter that the Wall Street Journal published a story about,
for which Donald Trump is now suing the Wall Street
(01:01):
Journal and its owner, Rupert Murdoch. The Trump lawsuit calls
it a nonexistent letter, so with Donald Trump claiming that
the letter does not exist, the birthday book that contains
that letter would be very damaging to Donald Trump if
(01:24):
that book became available and will be joined by a
guest tonight who believes he knows where that birthday.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Book is now and how it can be obtained.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
The Trump lawsuit against Rupert Murdoch and the Wall Street
Journal looks as absurd as most Donald Trump lawsuits look, because,
among other things, Donald Trump is suing the Wall Street
Journal for saying what you just heard Jen say, for
saying that Donald Trump was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein.
(02:00):
That is something that everyone covering this story has always
said four years about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, but
only the Wall Street Journal got sued by Donald Trump
for saying that he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. Line
twenty three of the Trump lawsuit says, the defendants pass
off the false, defamatory, disparaging, and inflammatory statements in the
(02:24):
article as fact, falsely claiming without substantiation that Trump is
a friend, pal.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Or family of Epstein.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So Donald Trump's lawsuit calls it defamation for the Wall
Street Journal to say that Donald Trump was a friend
of Jeffrey Epstein. And since Donald Trump filed that absurd lawsuit,
every news organization covering this story, including The New York Times,
all of them have repeatedly referred to Donald Trump and
Jeffrey Epstein as friends, and none of those news organizations
(02:59):
have been ed by Donald Trump for saying that they
were friends. And that is just one point of absurdity
in the Trump lawsuit. Donald Trump will surely drop that
lawsuit before he is forced by Rupert Murdock and the
Wall Street Journal to testify in a videotaped under oath
deposition in the case about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.
(03:22):
Donald Trump will never submit to a word of under
oath testimony about Jeffrey Epstein. We know that about Donald Trump.
We don't have to guess at that. That is a
behavioral fact of Donald Trump's life. He does everything he
possibly can to avoid testifying under oath. And when you
start a lawsuit like Donald Trump did against the Wall
(03:43):
Street Journal, you are in effect promising to testify under
oath in that lawsuit. And the only way for Donald
Trump to escape testifying under oath and being grilled for
hours on end by Rupert Murdock's lawyers about his real
relationship with Jeffrey Epstein is for Donald Trump to drop
(04:03):
that lawsuit. Donald Trump now has an incentive to drop
that lawsuit very soon, possibly next week or next month,
because the Florida federal judge handling that lawsuit, appointed by
President Barack Obama, Judge Darren Gales, has given Rupert Murdock
in the Wall Street Journal until September twenty second two
(04:26):
file their written answer to the Trump lawsuit. The Wall
Street Journal legal response to the Trump lawsuit in writing
could be absolutely devastating to Donald Trump. The Wall Street
Journal could, if it so chooses, reveal all of its
evidence against Donald Trump in that lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And the only.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Way for Donald Trump to stop the Wall Street Journal
from submitting a condemning filing against Donald Trump in that
lawsuit between now and September twenty second is for Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
To drop that lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
The Wall Street Journal doesn't have to wait until September
twenty second to file their written response. They could file
it tomorrow, and so Donald Trump's lawsuit, which looked like
a one day stunt at the time last week when
he filed it, could provoke a legal knockout punch in
writing from the Wall Street Journal against Donald Trump any
(05:21):
day now. And so you can expect Donald Trump to
spend the rest of his life trying not to testify
under oath about Jeffrey Epstein. But here's what Jeffrey Epstein
said under oath about Donald Trump when he was asked
in a deposition in a lawsuit in twenty ten about
(05:43):
his friendship with Donald Trump. This is as reported by
The New York Times in twenty nineteen. Mister Epstein declined
to answer a question about his relationship with mister Trump
and whether they had ever socialized together in the presence
of females under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Though I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Answer that question at least today, I'm going to have
to assert my fifth, sixth, twenty third, and fourteenth Amendment rights,
Sir mister Epstein replied, and so on the question of
whether Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein ever socialized in the
presence of females under the age of eighteen. Jeffrey Epstein
took the Fifth Amendment? Would Donald Trump take.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The Fifth Amendment to that question?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
There are other people, sadly, many other people who have
testified under oath about Jeffrey Epstein, and I hope that
most of those people are not watching this program tonight.
I hope they have found a way to separate from
the news media or at least the coverage of Jeffrey Epstein,
because that is the most painful subject in their lives.
(06:53):
We will be joined tonight by a lawyer who represents hundreds,
yes hundreds, of jeff Free Epstein's victims.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
He will tell us how.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
His clients are victimized again whenever this subject floods the
news media. He believes that the best thing for his
clients is to have the Epstein files released in full,
with the victims' names and information redacted, so that this
story does not drag on and continue to expose those
victims to the possible reopening of wounds. What I've tried
(07:27):
to do in every hour of our coverage of this
subject is to remember the people whose lives were ruined
the day they met Jeffrey Epstein's now convicted co conspirator,
Glainne Maxwell, who led many of them into a room
with Jeffrey Epstein where they found him naked. Jeffrey Epstein
(07:52):
forty years older than so many of his victims, who
are in middle school and high school. Fourteen years old
seems to have been the target age for Jeffrey Epstein.
Fourteen years old seems to have been the assignment that
Jeffrey Epstein gave to Gilene Maxwell, go out and find
me fourteen year olds whose lives I can destroy. And
(08:16):
what predators like Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell know is
that the kids they might have a better chance of
taking advantage of and exploiting are kids who are already
having trouble, kids who've been damaged already in their young lives.
And that's what the evidence showed in the Catholic priests
(08:37):
predatory behavior toward young children. Those priests targeted children who
they knew had already been suffering in their lives, kids
with problems at home, like alcoholic parents or sudden financial
hardship or death of a parent. The girls who are
victimized by Jeffrey Epstein and Gilen Maxwell are the people
(08:57):
who make this story so important. And yes, it involves
a president of the United States. Yes, for the first
time in history, a president of the United States is
being questioned about his long relationship and friendship with a
man who spent much of his adult life raping children.
The lawyer for the victims who will join us this
(09:18):
hour will tell you that Jeffrey Epstein raped children on
a daily basis. Most of the coverage of this story
quickly slips into a purely political discussion, because that's what
the Washington media is always comfortable with. Most of the
coverage of this story never refers to or even acknowledges
(09:39):
the suffering of those girls in middle school and high
school and the multiple ways in which their lives were
ruined by Jeffrey Epstein and GILLN. Maxwell, the only person
in the case to whom Donald Trump has said I
wish her well. Donald Trump has repeatedly publicly said I
(10:00):
wish her well about Elaine Maxwell after she was charged
with sex trafficking. After Gilainne Maxwell in her federal criminal
trial did not speak one word of defense. She didn't
offer a single word of defense of herself in that trial.
And for her, and only for her, Donald Trump has
(10:21):
said I wish her well. He has never said I
wish her well to a single victim of his friend
Jeffrey Epstein, a man who Donald Trump called a terrific guy.
When Jeffrey Epstein was raping children on a daily basis,
what happened to those girls should never be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
When Donald Trump is lying.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
About this case, question, how if at all to your knowledge?
Did Sean learn how old you actually were?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Answer?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I was going I had a birthday and I was
going to be fourteen. Did he come to your fourteenth
birthday party?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Answer? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Question and is that how he learned your actual age?
Answer yeah. That is federal prosecutor Maureen Coomi, who was
fired last week by the Trump Justice Apartment, questioning one
of the witnesses for the prosecution in the federal trial
of Elaine Maxwell. A friend brought this witness to Jeffrey
(11:32):
Epstein's house. Question what did she tell you? Answer that
we were going to go to her friend's house who
lived on Palm Beach Island, and I was going to
meet one of her wealthy friends. Question and do what answer?
Give him a massage?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Question?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
How did you respond? Answer okay, I said okay. Question
Why did you say okay? Answer because I was going
to make a lot of money? Question what room did
you walk into? Answer the kitchen? Question when you walked
into the kitchen?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
What happened? Answered? We were greeted by Ms. Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Question did mister Epstein touch you during this first massage?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Answer? No? Question after that ended? What happened? Next? Answer?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I was paid question in total, approximately how many times
did you go over to mister Epstein's house to give
him massages? Answer over one hundred. Question about how often
did you go over to his house to provide those massages?
Answer two to three times a week. Question about how
(12:35):
old were you the first time you went over to
his house? Answer fourteen question and about how old were
you the last time you went to his house? Answer eighteen.
Question when you interacted with Maxwell, what if any conversations
did you have with her about your family? Answer about
(12:57):
my upbringing and things that were going on at the time.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Question what did you tell Maxwell?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Answer that my mom was an alcoholic and I had
been molested, and just random personal things. Question what conversations
do you remember having with her about sexual.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Abuse that you'd experienced? Answer?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I remember telling her that I had been raped and
molested by my grandfather, starting at the age of four.
Question after you told Maxwell you were fourteen, did she
continue to call you to schedule massage appointments with Jeffrey Epstein?
Answer yes. Question During how many of the massages you
(13:39):
gave Jeffrey Epstein did he masturbate? Answer every single time?
Question during how many of the massages you gave Jeffrey Epstein.
Did he touch your breasts? Answer every time? Question during
how many of the massages you gave Jeffrey Epstein did
he touch your buttocks?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Answer every time?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Question were there ever massages you provided Jeffrey Epstein where
nothing sexual happened? Answer No, something sexual happened every single time.
Question why did you stop going to Jeffrey Epstein's house?
Answer because I became too old? Question how old were you?
(14:23):
Answer eighteen? Today, the Speaker of the House was asked
about his decision to close down the House of Representatives
for the rest of the summer and send the house
home until September because of fear of Epstein and fear
(14:44):
of what is in the Epstein files, and fear of
testimony like that. That was the reporter's phrase who asked
the question fear fear of Epstein, to which the deeply
in over his head Speaker of the House said, there's
no fear. There's no fear. There's no fear. That's what
(15:05):
he actually said. He said it three times. And when
you're actually not afraid, you're very unlikely to say nervously
and repeatedly, there's no fear. There's no fear. There's no fear.
And then the obviously terrified Speaker of the House gave
his reason for not wanting to have a vote in the.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
House Representatives on releasing the Epstein files, and his reason
was a pure lie.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
The Speaker said, the administration is already doing everything within
their power to release them. They've gone to the grand jury,
They've requested the courts to unseal the documents so that
they can be released.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And that is a lie.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Donald Trump and his Attorney General PEMBONDI have total power
to release the entirety of the Epstein files, not including
the grand jury testimony, which no one's been asking for
until Donald Trump suddenly pretended he wanted that release. But
Donald Trump personally has complete control over the Epstein files,
(16:10):
and he has done nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
To release them.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And every member of the House Representatives, every one of
them Democrat and Republican, who are pushing for that release,
including all those Republicans who.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Are pushing for it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
No, it's Donald Trump who's refusing to release those files
every single day, to which retiring Republican Senator Tom Tillis said.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
This today, really saidan files. Look, it makes no sense
to me if anybody thinks that this is going to
go away because the House left the day earlier or something,
It's got to be like those zombies in the Walking Dead.
Every time you think you've killed it, another one's just
going to come running out of the closet after you.
This is going to be an issue all the way
through next year's election.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And here is Democratic congresson in Summerly who convinced three
Republicans to the Democrats on the House Overside Subcommittee today
in voting successfully for a subpoena of the Epstein files
from the Trump Justice Department.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
They're fleeing our work, our job, and sending us back
home because they don't want to vote to release these files.
This is something that they ran on. This is something
that they talked about, the importance of transparency, the important
of potent pedophiles accountable. And right now, if the Republican Party,
if our colleagues on this committee don't join us in
this vote, then what they're essentially doing is joining President
(17:33):
Donald Trump in complicity. They're doing his dirty work from
him for him, And we want to make sure that
not only are we holding them accountable, but also that
we're keeping the focus on the things that are important.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
The House Oversight Committee voted to subpoena Glane Maxwell to
give testimony and a deposition in prison. But the first
person trying to speak to Julien Maxwell is Donald Trump's
former criminal defense lawyer, Todd Blanche, who is now Donald
Trump's Deputyney General. And, in an unprecedented, to put it mildly,
(18:04):
an unprecedented move in Justice Department history, something that's never
happened before, a deputy Attorney General is going to interview
a convicted sex trafficker in a federal prison. The New
York Post is reporting tonight that Elaine Maxwell's brother is
saying Elaine Maxwell is assembling new evidence to present to
(18:26):
the Feds when she meets with them this week. Her
brother told the Post. And here is what her brother
said about Donald Trump's repeated public sympathy for his sister,
the convicted sex trafficker, Glaine Maxwell.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
President Trump was asked the only time I believe in
public at the tail end of his presidency, so say
November December twenty twenty one about giln And he said,
you know, I don't know much about it, but I
wish I will, and I don't think that anyone else
(19:10):
showed the slightest piece of humanity, not anybody at that time.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And yet he did. He didn't. He did.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
He's the president of the United States. It's powerful out
in the world. He could have just left it off.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He did.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
He made a positive statement. I'm very grateful to that.
I don't know Gillan was too.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
In the least surprising news of the day, the Wall
Street Journal was reporting Donald Trump is named in the
Epstein files multiple times. That was already obvious to any
lawyer who has been involved in any aspect of the
Epstein case, because Donald Trump's name appears on the flight
logs of Jeffrey Epstein's plane, and because FBI agent's routinely
(19:49):
read news reports about the people they are investigating. And
so Donald Trump's praise of Jeffrey Epstein on the record
in New York Magazine and elsewhere is surely in the
Epstein files. And Donald Trump's response about the Wall Street
Journal's new reporting about him being in the Epstein files
multiple times was abject fear and silence by Donald Trump.
(20:13):
But he sent his White House staff out to release
a statement saying, this is another fake news story, just
like the previous story by The Wall Street Journal, and
that childish statement by Donald Trump's White House staff, whom
Donald Trump has chosen to hide behind tonight, sounds like
(20:35):
the White House echo version of there's no fear, there's
no fear, there's no fear. Leading off our discussion to
that is Andrew Weisman, former FBI General Counsel and former
chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of
New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. Andrew, I
want to go straight to what I'm I think you
(20:56):
might agree with me is the strangest and most suspicious
aspect of what's going on right now, and that is
the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's last criminal
defense lawyer, who is publicly a publicly declared friend of
Delayne Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer, first of all, communicating with him,
(21:17):
with Maxwell's lawyer now saying he wants to go to
prison and sit there and talk to Maxwell and get
what Maxwell's brother is telling The New York Post tonight,
new evidence suddenly, new evidence from the defendant who did
not speak a word of testimony in her own defense
in her trial.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
So the red flag here that people should pay attention to.
Is not so much the friendship I mean lots of
people who are prosecutors, no defense lawyers and vice versa.
It is that the deputy Attorney General, a political appointee,
is doing this. It is unusual, not unheard of. Its
(22:01):
unusual to seek the cooperation of somebody who has blown trial, who.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Has gone to trial and lost.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
You usually seek cooperation beforehand, and you certainly don't seek
it in this situation. And sort of very very long
after that conviction and to your poignant reading of what
happened at that trial, we may very well see the
Trump administration offering sort of untoward leniency towards Glaine Maxwell,
(22:34):
who has committed, according to a jury, sort of horrendous,
horrendous crimes.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And the concern.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Is is that you have someone who's a political appointee.
I've never ever heard of the deputy Attorney general doing
this and not having the career people. But you can't
have Marine Comy anymore doing this because they fired her.
But you don't have even other people who worked on
this case doing this, and you have a political appointee
(23:04):
doing this, and the fear is that they're really not
of course, seeking the truth, and they're going to offer
her a more lenient sentence. Remember here, the judge has
sentenced her to twenty years in jail. You do not
get sentenced to twenty years in jail for doing nothing,
(23:24):
and that is a reflection of the crimes here. So
you know, it's really important that you are focusing on
this because of what we may very well be seeing shortly.
And the thing that I am keeping sort of my
eyes and ears open for is whether prosecutors, career prostructors
in the Southern District of New York are going to
(23:46):
be fired or quit over this in the same way
we saw that happened in the Eric Adams, the mayor
Eric Adams case.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Andrew, we're going to squeeze the commercial break. We're going
to bring you back into the discussion later. We're going
to get some breaking news in the next segment, So
Andrew's going to stand by and coming up, Attorney Bradley Edwards,
who represents over two hundred victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse,
who are survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, well join our
(24:16):
discussion next. Bradley Edwards is a Florida attorney who has
represented over two hundred victims of Jeffrey Epstein. He is
the author of the book published in twenty twenty, Relentless
Pursuit My Fight for the Victims of Jeffrey Epstein. And
(24:36):
joining us now is Bradley Edwards. Mister Edwards, First of all,
I'd like your guidance on our coverage of this story
with your clients in mind, with their ongoing suffering.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
In mind, and the.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Sensitivity of their feelings, and how obviously this involves the
President of the United States. This coverage is going to continue,
It's going to get continue well into September. We now
know at least is there a way for us to
handle this that is mindful of what your clients have
already suffered.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
There is a way. It's not the way that it
has been handled thus far.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And I think that's the problem, and that's why I
agreed to come on the show, because I think that
back in two thousand and eight, when I sued the
government over Jeffrey Epstein's illegal non prosecution agreement that alex
Acosta gave him, it was because the victims were an afterthought,
And now it seems like the victims are not a thought.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
At all.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Somehow we've gone backwards, which is not okay. It's irresponsible
of everyone. And I think that people really need to
remember that real people were hurt here, and every single
time that the over politicizing of this issue comes up,
they're hurt all over again.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I've been contacted by dozens.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Of clients in the last week, probably over fifty that
are paranoid, have extreme anxiety and fear over the way
in which this issue has been handled, the politicizing of it,
and you know, give it a prime example, the call
for the release of grand jury materials. First of all,
everybody knows the grand jury materials is basically worthless.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
It's nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
That's where you present to the grand jury before and arrest,
before an indictment, before the raids, and before the accumulation
of evidence. It's a red herring. But it causes the
victims to go, wait, where's our voice? We didn't know
about this. Luckily, the judicial system works and the judges
immediately said, wait, we're denying your request. Why you haven't
asked for the victim's opinions. So at least the judges
(26:37):
see the victims are being left out. I can tell you.
Despite that, order from the judges. We still haven't been contacted,
our clients still haven't been asked about their opinions of
the release of materials. Put the grand jury materials aside.
The victims generally, and as you said, I've represented over
two hundred of them. Not every one of them is
the same, but for the most part, all of them
(26:59):
want to and they deserve to heal. And the only
way they're going to heal now is if full transparency happens.
Release the files, release everything in it except the victims' names,
Protect the victims, protect their privacy, release everything else.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
There's no other reason to hold.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Anything back than if somebody is trying then somebody is
trying to hold something, or there's a cover up.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
There's been enough of that. Release it, and release it fast.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
There's a solution to every single problem that has come
up in a quick solution. It doesn't seem like people
want it. It seems like it's being driven by salivating
over scandal as opposed to dissemination of the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
One of the things being the birthday Book.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I have numerous clients who know of the authenticity and
the existence of the birthday Book. Of course, it was
a birthday book that was given to Jeffrey Epstein on
his fiftieth birthday by Gielynn Maxwell. Jeffrey Epstein's dead. He
has an estate. Everybody who's knows anything about the story
knows that that knows. The estate exists and it's being
governed by the two executors. Darren Endyke, Jeffrey Epstein's former attorney,
(28:09):
Richard Kahn, Jeffrey Epstein's former accountant. Those are the two executors.
If somebody simply called them on the phone and said,
give us the book, they would probably give you the book.
They have attorneys. Their attorneys are good. Their attorneys are
good people. If they didn't just voluntarily turn over the
book out of fear of reprisal, Congress could issue a
(28:30):
subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson or at Troutman.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Those are the two law firms. I know those attorneys.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
They would turn the book over immediately. Nobody would have
to guess. There wouldn't need to be a lawsuit. There
wouldn't have to wait to be discovery. You would immediately
have the answers. You could flip to the page. Is
there a letter, Is there not a letter? It's over
the victims then get to move on. But that's not
what's happening. And that's why I agreed to come on,
because so many of them have called and said, somebody
(28:58):
needs to remind them real people are being hurt here.
The truth matters, transparency actually matters. Get this over with
and get it behind us.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
I want to go to that book because with your
familiarity with evidence against Jeffrey Epstein, which you've collected a
lot of through the discovery process, what do you know
specifically about that book? Do you know that they are
in that the estate, the relatives of Jeffrey Epstein, in effect,
through their lawyers, are in possession of that birthday book.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, I know that the executors of this date are
in possession of that book, and I think that after
they turn it over, it should probably be set in
the Smithsonian as an artifact. At this point in time,
it's going to go down in history so that the
world can see this book and they'll know who were
Jeffrey Epstein's best friends at the time, what letters did
his family write to him, what other pictures are in there,
(29:54):
things of that nature. Redact victim names, release the book
and move on.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So yes, the executors have it.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
So you've just identified not just for the news media,
but obviously for the House representatives who are now in
a mood to subpoena, and also Todd blanche in the
Trump Justice Department, who suddenly are getting curious about investigating this.
You've now told them exactly, according to your knowledge, where
the birthday book is, who is in possession of that book,
(30:26):
and all the House representatives would have to do tomorrow
is write up a subpoena for that book, and you
believe that it would be they would the lawyers involved
would comply with that subpoena.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I know the executors lawyers. I worked with them for years.
They're good people, they're good lawyers. They would comply with
the subpoena immediately. That it's something that we could solve
this problem so quickly. People actually want to solve problems
and as idea Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
One more thing, Bradley, you said, I think you said
that some of your clients have specific knowledge of that
birthday book.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Sure, yes, more than one, multiple of them.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And what is that knowledge?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
They saw it or they were around him when he
was fifty years old? Were they present at his birthday,
his fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I don't know the answer that last question. I do
know that they were involved in the assembly of the book.
Several of them. They were told by gill In to
assist in putting the book together. Others have seen the
books post birthday and after it was assembled. So the
(31:38):
existence of the book is it's an absolute fact. Now
who wrote letters, what's in the book? You're going to
have to get the book to figure it out. But
this isn't something that needs to be a mystery forever
and drag the victims into all kinds of anxiety for nothing.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
We can get that answer pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, I knew you were going to tell us
information about the whereabouts of the book that I knew
before we came on tonight. What I did not think
of in all the reporting that's been done about this
book and what you just said, which now seems obvious
when you say it, is that some of Jeffrey Epstein's
victims were actually used by Elaine Maxwell to assemble that
(32:22):
birthday book, to actually put those letters together in that book.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yeah, you have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein was abusing
and exploiting young women and children every day of his life.
So anybody that's around for any major events such as
the assembly of his fiftieth birthday book, they're going to
have to be involved in assembling or playing their part
whatever they were directed to do with respect to that book.
(32:49):
So yes, more than one more than what was involved.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
And just to that last point you said, every day
of his life. The evidence that you acquired through the
discovery and representing your clients indicates to you that Jeffrey
Epstein was committing this kind of rape with girls from
middle school and high school. As you just put it,
every day of his life.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, I would just the only caveat being.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Young children and young women, probably all under the age
of twenty five. But yes, you're right, as young as fourteen,
and I think that we've represented fifty that were under
the age of eighteen.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
But it wasn't only minors, just that caveat.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I think that the one thing that has really alarmed
our clients, particularly today, is the information that now Gilan
Maxwell's being visited in jail and that she is somehow
being given some credibility and a platform on this particular topic.
I think what people are forgetting is that Gilln Maxwell
(33:52):
wasn't only indicted on sex trafficking charges Giln Maxwell because
of testimony she gave on multiples in the civil cases
where we suit her, she provided testimony and as a
consequence of false testimony, she was indicted on two perjury
counts on this particular topic. So we're at we're going
to go and ask somebody to tell the truth. Who
(34:15):
is indicted on perjury charges related to this particular topic. Now,
does she have information that could potentially help yes, will
she be.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Truthful about it? Who knows.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
But whoever is going to be the questioner, whoever's going
to be the interrogator, must know more than just a
rudimentary understanding of the case. You have to have seen
her other deposition transcripts to know what she's said so
that you're going to keep her in line. You have
to know her testimony from her criminal trial to keep
her in line, and you have.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
To understand the case.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Sending somebody there that knows nothing, She's going to say
whatever she wants to say, and what's her incentive? Is
her incentive because she's going to get a deal. I
have many clients who say, look, President Trump and Galyn
Maxwell were good friends back then. Is he going to
commute her? Is he going to pardon her? And I
have said to them, look, I know that you feel
like an afterthought right now. I know that you feel
(35:05):
like you don't matter. For him to do that would
be he thought about you and he decided you don't
do not matter. I don't think that is on the table.
I don't think that he would ever do that. Maybe
I'm putting too much trust in him. Maybe I am.
But either way, if he's not going to do that,
(35:25):
what incentive does she have to say to tell him
anything if she's getting nothing out of it. So there's
a big problem here with the process, and it's just
another piece of the scandal that is causing enormous anxiety.
Let's all remember there were five victims at the heart
of the sex trafficking trial against Gilan Maxwell. Two are
(35:47):
no longer with us, they're dead. We're losing clients because
of the anxiety and the suffering of them and their families.
And they should be the first thought every single American
has when they think about this case. They shouldn't be
an afterthought and they shouldn't be forgotten. And that's how
(36:08):
it feels to them, Antony.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And just for the audience, the two that you mentioned
both clients of yours. One took her own life a
few months ago and another died of a parent drug
overdose last year. Attorney Bradley Edwards, thank you very much
for your invaluable perspective on this tonight and what you've
revealed to us about your knowledge about that birthday book
(36:33):
and how it can be obtained. Thank you very much
for joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Thank you for having me, Lawrence, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Coming up, Carnsman Rocanna might want to start working on
a new subpoena.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
He will join us next.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
The breaking news just minutes ago right here on MSNBC
is that Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book that contains a letter
that bears Donald Trump's name is in the possession of
the Epstein estate in Florida, and the estate lawyers would
respond to a subpoena.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Congress could issue a subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson
or at Troutman. Those are the two law firms I
know those attorneys. They would turn the book over immediately.
Nobody would have to guess there wouldn't need to be
a lawsuit. There wouldn't have to wait to be discovery.
You would immediately have the answers. You could flip to
the page.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Is there a letter? Is there not a letter? It's over.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Joining us now?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Is Democratic carsonan Rocanna of California? Remember the House Oversight Committee,
Carston Conne, you even been the driving force in the
House representatives to get the Epstein files released to the House.
Does it sound like it's time to maybe move for
a subpoena to get that book?
Speaker 9 (37:49):
Yes, Lawrence. First of all, that was a bombshell revelation
by Bradley Edwards. I appreciate your having me on to
hear that. It's important what he said that we have
to center the victims in this, and it's important to
hear what he believes the victims won, which is the
full complete release of the Epstein files. We're hearing directly
(38:11):
that's what the victims want. Second, it is a revelation
to me that he said that that birthday book is
with private lawyers in the Epstein estate. As you know
and reported earlier summer, Lee showed courageous leadership tray on
the Oversight Committee. We subpoena the Epstein files. But that's
a hard thing to do to get the Department of
(38:31):
Justice to cooperate in releasing those files. What's not hard
to do is to subpoena private attorneys in a private
estate and to get compliant. So I'm actually going to
invite Bradley Edwards to meet with the House Oversight Committee,
and I think we can easily move forward on this
subpoena of that birthday book, and which could really advance
(38:52):
this case.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
And this really does change the nature of the story
is a Donald Trump has said that the letter doesn't exist.
He said it's non existent. And so if this birthday
book can be obtained, if you can obtain it, you
can give us the answer of exactly how Donald Trump
(39:14):
is or is not represented in that book.
Speaker 9 (39:18):
Absolutely, we will know if the letter the Wall Street
Journal reported on, if that is in the book or not,
or if there any other letters or correspondence of Donald
Trump in the book. We also will know whether hundreds
of other people who have been implicated in sex trafficking
are in the book. And of course we would take
absolute care to make sure the victims are protected. But
(39:41):
the biggest thing I heard tonight is that this is
what the victims want and this should not be a
political issue. This should be an issue for justice. And
I think it's really courageous that Bradley Edwards came on
your program. I appreciate him doing that. And this guidance
is very helpful for our committee because we can't trust
the Trump Justice Department that is going to get slowed down.
(40:03):
It's going to be get bogged down. Even if we subpoena.
They can try to defy the subpoena. I don't trust
the DOJ to prosecute themselves for contempt of Congress. But
what we can do through Congress is go after these
Jeffrey Epstein estate and we've seen even Republicans are willing
to vote with us on that this may be the
cleanest way forward.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Carson Rocanna, thank you very much for Jenny our breaking
news coverage tonight.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Thank you, and coming up, we'll.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Be we'll be back with Andrew Weisman. We'll get his
reaction to what he just learned about the Jeffrey Epstein
birthday book and how it can be obtained now through subpoena.
We'll be right back with Andrew Weisman.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
Congress could issue a subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson
or at Troutman. Those are the two law firms I
know those attorneys. They would turn the book over immediately.
Nobody would have to guess. There wouldn't need to be
a lawsuit. They wouldn't have to wait to do to
be discovery. You would immediately have the answers. You could
flip to the page is there a letter? Is there
not a letter? It's over.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Andrew Weisman is back with us, and Andrew I suspect
that Rocanna and the House representatives might be in a
subpoena race right now with the Trump Justice Department. It
is entirely possible that the Trump Justice Department could issue
a subpoena immediately to try to obtain that birthday book
from the estate in Florida that Bradley Edwards just identify
(41:32):
as in possession of the Epstein birthday book, which is
supposed to contain a letter that bears Donald Trump's name.
Is it possible that the Justice Department could just subpoena
that first thing tomorrow morning, get possession of it and
no one would ever see it.
Speaker 8 (41:49):
That is possible. It is also possible that they actually
have it already. Remember that the Department of Justice has
said that they have thirty gigabytes of information pursuant to
this investigation. Remember this case went to trial, so there's
been a thorough investigation before today, and so we don't
(42:13):
know the full complement of everything they have. I should
also point out, in addition to the point that you
were guest made, which was just wonderful, is that what
you could subpoena from the estate is not just the
birthday book. But if it's the estate of Jeffrey Epstein,
they may have a whole repository of information about what
(42:38):
he was doing and detailed records of who he was
doing it with, And so the subpoena does not have
to be so narrowly tailored that it's just asking for this.
The other thing, Laurence, I just want to make a
point of the real issue here that people shouldn't forget
(42:59):
is callousness of the Department of Justice and what it's doing.
The victims had a right to notice, They had a
right to be heard before any motion was made to
make anything public. Their voices are statutorily required to be heard,
and the judges vindicated that.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But you have the Deputy Attorney.
Speaker 8 (43:23):
General ignoring the law, and it really sends a red
flag that this is being done for political purposes, that
you would ignore the victims in a case like this.
Presumably that is why the case was brought, was to
vindicate their rights, and you're seeing that thrown away. And
I think that's the real message from your last guests.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
So to stay on the birthday book for another minute.
Is it possible that the estate has the original and
that the Epstein files in the Justice Department have a
copy of it?
Speaker 8 (44:02):
Yes, absolutely, or vice versa.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
It is.
Speaker 8 (44:05):
It is quite typical when I did investigations that we would,
if necessary, have the original but leave a copy. And
sometimes it would be the reverse because we didn't need
to have the original. Sometimes you want that for evidentiary value.
But this is the kind of thing that I would be.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I wouldn't be.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
It wouldn't be beyond the you know, the possibility. But
I think it would be unlikely that prosecutors as adept
as those in the Southern dist of New York who
had this case, that they would not have seen this
already even if they didn't take the original.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
And at the end of when the Epstein suicide happens
that case is over. Is the appointed processes like that
where the prosecutors have possession of material if they obtained,
where they simply say, okay, we're handing this back because
it has no evidentiary value for us. We're not using
this in court, so we're going to give this original back.
Speaker 8 (45:11):
That does happen, but it wouldn't have happened in this
case at this point. Why because Glaine Maxwell still was
going to trial and her case is not over. There
still is an appeals process. In fact, in a request
for FOYA documents, that is for the public release of documents,
(45:32):
there's litigation over that. The Department of Justice took the
position that they couldn't turn things over because the Glaine
Maxwell case was still ongoing because of that appeals process.
While that is ongoing, you do not return evidence because
you don't know if you may need it going forward.
So I would find it highly unlikely that that material
(45:54):
would have been turned back over to a private party
at this point.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And just to underline your point, the procedure to get
grand jury testimony released requires you to first of all,
get noticed to possible victims in that testimony and make
sure it's okay with them, and the Trump Justice Department
didn't do that, which seems to make their attempt to
get the grand jury information released just a legally phony
(46:22):
attempt it is.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
It is a complete phony red herring in my view,
as you pointed out in your initial introduction, any single
day of the week, this minute, there are thirty gigabytes
of investigative material that are that presumably a huge portion
of that is not grand jury material. The government does
(46:47):
not need court authorization to turn that over.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Ander Weisman. I'm going to need you back here tomorrow night.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
See you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
That is tonight's last word.
The last for with Laurence o' donald starts right now, Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Lawrence, Hey Jen. Andrew Weissman is back.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He will be Jove.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Yes, we need him, and he will be joining us
tonight in our coverage of the Epstein files and the
Justice Department's involvement on that. He of course is an
expert on all of that, and we actually have some
breaking news to deliver during this hour on this Jen, so.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
We have to get right to it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Get right too.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I'll be in my car listening.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, thanks Jen, Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We're going to be breaking news during this hour about
the Epstein files.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We will be joined by a guest.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Who believes that he knows where the birthday book is
that contains a letter to Jeffrey Epstein on his fiftieth
birthday that bears Donald Trump's name. That is the same
letter that the Wall Street Journal published a story about,
for which Donald Trump is now suing the Wall Street
(01:01):
Journal and its owner, Rupert Murdoch. The Trump lawsuit calls
it a nonexistent letter, so with Donald Trump claiming that
the letter does not exist, the birthday book that contains
that letter would be very damaging to Donald Trump if
(01:24):
that book became available and will be joined by a
guest tonight who believes he knows where that birthday.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Book is now and how it can be obtained.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
The Trump lawsuit against Rupert Murdoch and the Wall Street
Journal looks as absurd as most Donald Trump lawsuits look, because,
among other things, Donald Trump is suing the Wall Street
Journal for saying what you just heard Jen say, for
saying that Donald Trump was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein.
(02:00):
That is something that everyone covering this story has always
said four years about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, but
only the Wall Street Journal got sued by Donald Trump
for saying that he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein. Line
twenty three of the Trump lawsuit says, the defendants pass
off the false, defamatory, disparaging, and inflammatory statements in the
(02:24):
article as fact, falsely claiming without substantiation that Trump is
a friend, pal.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Or family of Epstein.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So Donald Trump's lawsuit calls it defamation for the Wall
Street Journal to say that Donald Trump was a friend
of Jeffrey Epstein. And since Donald Trump filed that absurd lawsuit,
every news organization covering this story, including The New York Times,
all of them have repeatedly referred to Donald Trump and
Jeffrey Epstein as friends, and none of those news organizations
(02:59):
have been ed by Donald Trump for saying that they
were friends. And that is just one point of absurdity
in the Trump lawsuit. Donald Trump will surely drop that
lawsuit before he is forced by Rupert Murdock and the
Wall Street Journal to testify in a videotaped under oath
deposition in the case about his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.
(03:22):
Donald Trump will never submit to a word of under
oath testimony about Jeffrey Epstein. We know that about Donald Trump.
We don't have to guess at that. That is a
behavioral fact of Donald Trump's life. He does everything he
possibly can to avoid testifying under oath. And when you
start a lawsuit like Donald Trump did against the Wall
(03:43):
Street Journal, you are in effect promising to testify under
oath in that lawsuit. And the only way for Donald
Trump to escape testifying under oath and being grilled for
hours on end by Rupert Murdock's lawyers about his real
relationship with Jeffrey Epstein is for Donald Trump to drop
(04:03):
that lawsuit. Donald Trump now has an incentive to drop
that lawsuit very soon, possibly next week or next month,
because the Florida federal judge handling that lawsuit, appointed by
President Barack Obama, Judge Darren Gales, has given Rupert Murdock
in the Wall Street Journal until September twenty second two
(04:26):
file their written answer to the Trump lawsuit. The Wall
Street Journal legal response to the Trump lawsuit in writing
could be absolutely devastating to Donald Trump. The Wall Street
Journal could, if it so chooses, reveal all of its
evidence against Donald Trump in that lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And the only.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Way for Donald Trump to stop the Wall Street Journal
from submitting a condemning filing against Donald Trump in that
lawsuit between now and September twenty second is for Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
To drop that lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
The Wall Street Journal doesn't have to wait until September
twenty second to file their written response. They could file
it tomorrow, and so Donald Trump's lawsuit, which looked like
a one day stunt at the time last week when
he filed it, could provoke a legal knockout punch in
writing from the Wall Street Journal against Donald Trump any
(05:21):
day now. And so you can expect Donald Trump to
spend the rest of his life trying not to testify
under oath about Jeffrey Epstein. But here's what Jeffrey Epstein
said under oath about Donald Trump when he was asked
in a deposition in a lawsuit in twenty ten about
(05:43):
his friendship with Donald Trump. This is as reported by
The New York Times in twenty nineteen. Mister Epstein declined
to answer a question about his relationship with mister Trump
and whether they had ever socialized together in the presence
of females under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Though I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Answer that question at least today, I'm going to have
to assert my fifth, sixth, twenty third, and fourteenth Amendment rights,
Sir mister Epstein replied, and so on the question of
whether Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein ever socialized in the
presence of females under the age of eighteen. Jeffrey Epstein
took the Fifth Amendment? Would Donald Trump take.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
The Fifth Amendment to that question?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
There are other people, sadly, many other people who have
testified under oath about Jeffrey Epstein, and I hope that
most of those people are not watching this program tonight.
I hope they have found a way to separate from
the news media or at least the coverage of Jeffrey Epstein,
because that is the most painful subject in their lives.
(06:53):
We will be joined tonight by a lawyer who represents hundreds,
yes hundreds, of jeff Free Epstein's victims.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
He will tell us how.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
His clients are victimized again whenever this subject floods the
news media. He believes that the best thing for his
clients is to have the Epstein files released in full,
with the victims' names and information redacted, so that this
story does not drag on and continue to expose those
victims to the possible reopening of wounds. What I've tried
(07:27):
to do in every hour of our coverage of this
subject is to remember the people whose lives were ruined
the day they met Jeffrey Epstein's now convicted co conspirator,
Glainne Maxwell, who led many of them into a room
with Jeffrey Epstein where they found him naked. Jeffrey Epstein
(07:52):
forty years older than so many of his victims, who
are in middle school and high school. Fourteen years old
seems to have been the target age for Jeffrey Epstein.
Fourteen years old seems to have been the assignment that
Jeffrey Epstein gave to Gilene Maxwell, go out and find
me fourteen year olds whose lives I can destroy. And
(08:16):
what predators like Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell know is
that the kids they might have a better chance of
taking advantage of and exploiting are kids who are already
having trouble, kids who've been damaged already in their young lives.
And that's what the evidence showed in the Catholic priests
(08:37):
predatory behavior toward young children. Those priests targeted children who
they knew had already been suffering in their lives, kids
with problems at home, like alcoholic parents or sudden financial
hardship or death of a parent. The girls who are
victimized by Jeffrey Epstein and Gilen Maxwell are the people
(08:57):
who make this story so important. And yes, it involves
a president of the United States. Yes, for the first
time in history, a president of the United States is
being questioned about his long relationship and friendship with a
man who spent much of his adult life raping children.
The lawyer for the victims who will join us this
(09:18):
hour will tell you that Jeffrey Epstein raped children on
a daily basis. Most of the coverage of this story
quickly slips into a purely political discussion, because that's what
the Washington media is always comfortable with. Most of the
coverage of this story never refers to or even acknowledges
(09:39):
the suffering of those girls in middle school and high
school and the multiple ways in which their lives were
ruined by Jeffrey Epstein and GILLN. Maxwell, the only person
in the case to whom Donald Trump has said I
wish her well. Donald Trump has repeatedly publicly said I
(10:00):
wish her well about Elaine Maxwell after she was charged
with sex trafficking. After Gilainne Maxwell in her federal criminal
trial did not speak one word of defense. She didn't
offer a single word of defense of herself in that trial.
And for her, and only for her, Donald Trump has
(10:21):
said I wish her well. He has never said I
wish her well to a single victim of his friend
Jeffrey Epstein, a man who Donald Trump called a terrific guy.
When Jeffrey Epstein was raping children on a daily basis,
what happened to those girls should never be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
When Donald Trump is lying.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
About this case, question, how if at all to your knowledge?
Did Sean learn how old you actually were?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Answer?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I was going I had a birthday and I was
going to be fourteen. Did he come to your fourteenth
birthday party?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Answer? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Question and is that how he learned your actual age?
Answer yeah. That is federal prosecutor Maureen Coomi, who was
fired last week by the Trump Justice Apartment, questioning one
of the witnesses for the prosecution in the federal trial
of Elaine Maxwell. A friend brought this witness to Jeffrey
(11:32):
Epstein's house. Question what did she tell you? Answer that
we were going to go to her friend's house who
lived on Palm Beach Island, and I was going to
meet one of her wealthy friends. Question and do what answer?
Give him a massage?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Question?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
How did you respond? Answer okay, I said okay. Question
Why did you say okay? Answer because I was going
to make a lot of money? Question what room did
you walk into? Answer the kitchen? Question when you walked
into the kitchen?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
What happened? Answered? We were greeted by Ms. Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Question did mister Epstein touch you during this first massage?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Answer? No? Question after that ended? What happened? Next? Answer?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I was paid question in total, approximately how many times
did you go over to mister Epstein's house to give
him massages? Answer over one hundred. Question about how often
did you go over to his house to provide those massages?
Answer two to three times a week. Question about how
(12:35):
old were you the first time you went over to
his house? Answer fourteen question and about how old were
you the last time you went to his house? Answer eighteen.
Question when you interacted with Maxwell, what if any conversations
did you have with her about your family? Answer about
(12:57):
my upbringing and things that were going on at the time.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Question what did you tell Maxwell?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Answer that my mom was an alcoholic and I had
been molested, and just random personal things. Question what conversations
do you remember having with her about sexual.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Abuse that you'd experienced? Answer?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I remember telling her that I had been raped and
molested by my grandfather, starting at the age of four.
Question after you told Maxwell you were fourteen, did she
continue to call you to schedule massage appointments with Jeffrey Epstein?
Answer yes. Question During how many of the massages you
(13:39):
gave Jeffrey Epstein did he masturbate? Answer every single time?
Question during how many of the massages you gave Jeffrey Epstein.
Did he touch your breasts? Answer every time? Question during
how many of the massages you gave Jeffrey Epstein did
he touch your buttocks?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Answer every time?
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Question were there ever massages you provided Jeffrey Epstein where
nothing sexual happened? Answer No, something sexual happened every single time.
Question why did you stop going to Jeffrey Epstein's house?
Answer because I became too old? Question how old were you?
(14:23):
Answer eighteen? Today, the Speaker of the House was asked
about his decision to close down the House of Representatives
for the rest of the summer and send the house
home until September because of fear of Epstein and fear
(14:44):
of what is in the Epstein files, and fear of
testimony like that. That was the reporter's phrase who asked
the question fear fear of Epstein, to which the deeply
in over his head Speaker of the House said, there's
no fear. There's no fear. There's no fear. That's what
(15:05):
he actually said. He said it three times. And when
you're actually not afraid, you're very unlikely to say nervously
and repeatedly, there's no fear. There's no fear. There's no fear.
And then the obviously terrified Speaker of the House gave
his reason for not wanting to have a vote in the.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
House Representatives on releasing the Epstein files, and his reason
was a pure lie.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
The Speaker said, the administration is already doing everything within
their power to release them. They've gone to the grand jury,
They've requested the courts to unseal the documents so that
they can be released.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And that is a lie.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Donald Trump and his Attorney General PEMBONDI have total power
to release the entirety of the Epstein files, not including
the grand jury testimony, which no one's been asking for
until Donald Trump suddenly pretended he wanted that release. But
Donald Trump personally has complete control over the Epstein files,
(16:10):
and he has done nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
To release them.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And every member of the House Representatives, every one of
them Democrat and Republican, who are pushing for that release,
including all those Republicans who.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Are pushing for it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
No, it's Donald Trump who's refusing to release those files
every single day, to which retiring Republican Senator Tom Tillis said.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
This today, really saidan files. Look, it makes no sense
to me if anybody thinks that this is going to
go away because the House left the day earlier or something,
It's got to be like those zombies in the Walking Dead.
Every time you think you've killed it, another one's just
going to come running out of the closet after you.
This is going to be an issue all the way
through next year's election.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
And here is Democratic congresson in Summerly who convinced three
Republicans to the Democrats on the House Overside Subcommittee today
in voting successfully for a subpoena of the Epstein files
from the Trump Justice Department.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
They're fleeing our work, our job, and sending us back
home because they don't want to vote to release these files.
This is something that they ran on. This is something
that they talked about, the importance of transparency, the important
of potent pedophiles accountable. And right now, if the Republican Party,
if our colleagues on this committee don't join us in
this vote, then what they're essentially doing is joining President
(17:33):
Donald Trump in complicity. They're doing his dirty work from
him for him, And we want to make sure that
not only are we holding them accountable, but also that
we're keeping the focus on the things that are important.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
The House Oversight Committee voted to subpoena Glane Maxwell to
give testimony and a deposition in prison. But the first
person trying to speak to Julien Maxwell is Donald Trump's
former criminal defense lawyer, Todd Blanche, who is now Donald
Trump's Deputyney General. And, in an unprecedented, to put it mildly,
(18:04):
an unprecedented move in Justice Department history, something that's never
happened before, a deputy Attorney General is going to interview
a convicted sex trafficker in a federal prison. The New
York Post is reporting tonight that Elaine Maxwell's brother is
saying Elaine Maxwell is assembling new evidence to present to
(18:26):
the Feds when she meets with them this week. Her
brother told the Post. And here is what her brother
said about Donald Trump's repeated public sympathy for his sister,
the convicted sex trafficker, Glaine Maxwell.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
President Trump was asked the only time I believe in
public at the tail end of his presidency, so say
November December twenty twenty one about giln And he said,
you know, I don't know much about it, but I
wish I will, and I don't think that anyone else
(19:10):
showed the slightest piece of humanity, not anybody at that time.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
And yet he did. He didn't. He did.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
He's the president of the United States. It's powerful out
in the world. He could have just left it off.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He did.
Speaker 7 (19:21):
He made a positive statement. I'm very grateful to that.
I don't know Gillan was too.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
In the least surprising news of the day, the Wall
Street Journal was reporting Donald Trump is named in the
Epstein files multiple times. That was already obvious to any
lawyer who has been involved in any aspect of the
Epstein case, because Donald Trump's name appears on the flight
logs of Jeffrey Epstein's plane, and because FBI agent's routinely
(19:49):
read news reports about the people they are investigating. And
so Donald Trump's praise of Jeffrey Epstein on the record
in New York Magazine and elsewhere is surely in the
Epstein files. And Donald Trump's response about the Wall Street
Journal's new reporting about him being in the Epstein files
multiple times was abject fear and silence by Donald Trump.
(20:13):
But he sent his White House staff out to release
a statement saying, this is another fake news story, just
like the previous story by The Wall Street Journal, and
that childish statement by Donald Trump's White House staff, whom
Donald Trump has chosen to hide behind tonight, sounds like
(20:35):
the White House echo version of there's no fear, there's
no fear, there's no fear. Leading off our discussion to
that is Andrew Weisman, former FBI General Counsel and former
chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of
New York. He's also an MSNBC legal analyst. Andrew, I
want to go straight to what I'm I think you
(20:56):
might agree with me is the strangest and most suspicious
aspect of what's going on right now, and that is
the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's last criminal
defense lawyer, who is publicly a publicly declared friend of
Delayne Maxwell's criminal defense lawyer, first of all, communicating with him,
(21:17):
with Maxwell's lawyer now saying he wants to go to
prison and sit there and talk to Maxwell and get
what Maxwell's brother is telling The New York Post tonight,
new evidence suddenly, new evidence from the defendant who did
not speak a word of testimony in her own defense
in her trial.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
So the red flag here that people should pay attention to.
Is not so much the friendship I mean lots of
people who are prosecutors, no defense lawyers and vice versa.
It is that the deputy Attorney General, a political appointee,
is doing this. It is unusual, not unheard of. Its
(22:01):
unusual to seek the cooperation of somebody who has blown trial, who.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Has gone to trial and lost.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
You usually seek cooperation beforehand, and you certainly don't seek
it in this situation. And sort of very very long
after that conviction and to your poignant reading of what
happened at that trial, we may very well see the
Trump administration offering sort of untoward leniency towards Glaine Maxwell,
(22:34):
who has committed, according to a jury, sort of horrendous,
horrendous crimes.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
And the concern.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Is is that you have someone who's a political appointee.
I've never ever heard of the deputy Attorney general doing
this and not having the career people. But you can't
have Marine Comy anymore doing this because they fired her.
But you don't have even other people who worked on
this case doing this, and you have a political appointee
(23:04):
doing this, and the fear is that they're really not
of course, seeking the truth, and they're going to offer
her a more lenient sentence. Remember here, the judge has
sentenced her to twenty years in jail. You do not
get sentenced to twenty years in jail for doing nothing,
(23:24):
and that is a reflection of the crimes here. So
you know, it's really important that you are focusing on
this because of what we may very well be seeing shortly.
And the thing that I am keeping sort of my
eyes and ears open for is whether prosecutors, career prostructors
in the Southern District of New York are going to
(23:46):
be fired or quit over this in the same way
we saw that happened in the Eric Adams, the mayor
Eric Adams case.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Andrew, we're going to squeeze the commercial break. We're going
to bring you back into the discussion later. We're going
to get some breaking news in the next segment, So
Andrew's going to stand by and coming up, Attorney Bradley Edwards,
who represents over two hundred victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse,
who are survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, well join our
(24:16):
discussion next. Bradley Edwards is a Florida attorney who has
represented over two hundred victims of Jeffrey Epstein. He is
the author of the book published in twenty twenty, Relentless
Pursuit My Fight for the Victims of Jeffrey Epstein. And
(24:36):
joining us now is Bradley Edwards. Mister Edwards, First of all,
I'd like your guidance on our coverage of this story
with your clients in mind, with their ongoing suffering.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
In mind, and the.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Sensitivity of their feelings, and how obviously this involves the
President of the United States. This coverage is going to continue,
It's going to get continue well into September. We now
know at least is there a way for us to
handle this that is mindful of what your clients have
already suffered.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
There is a way. It's not the way that it
has been handled thus far.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And I think that's the problem, and that's why I
agreed to come on the show, because I think that
back in two thousand and eight, when I sued the
government over Jeffrey Epstein's illegal non prosecution agreement that alex
Acosta gave him, it was because the victims were an afterthought,
And now it seems like the victims are not a thought.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
At all.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
Somehow we've gone backwards, which is not okay. It's irresponsible
of everyone. And I think that people really need to
remember that real people were hurt here, and every single
time that the over politicizing of this issue comes up,
they're hurt all over again.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I've been contacted by dozens.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Of clients in the last week, probably over fifty that
are paranoid, have extreme anxiety and fear over the way
in which this issue has been handled, the politicizing of it,
and you know, give it a prime example, the call
for the release of grand jury materials. First of all,
everybody knows the grand jury materials is basically worthless.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
It's nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
That's where you present to the grand jury before and arrest,
before an indictment, before the raids, and before the accumulation
of evidence. It's a red herring. But it causes the
victims to go, wait, where's our voice? We didn't know
about this. Luckily, the judicial system works and the judges
immediately said, wait, we're denying your request. Why you haven't
asked for the victim's opinions. So at least the judges
(26:37):
see the victims are being left out. I can tell you.
Despite that, order from the judges. We still haven't been contacted,
our clients still haven't been asked about their opinions of
the release of materials. Put the grand jury materials aside.
The victims generally, and as you said, I've represented over
two hundred of them. Not every one of them is
the same, but for the most part, all of them
(26:59):
want to and they deserve to heal. And the only
way they're going to heal now is if full transparency happens.
Release the files, release everything in it except the victims' names,
Protect the victims, protect their privacy, release everything else.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
There's no other reason to hold.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Anything back than if somebody is trying then somebody is
trying to hold something, or there's a cover up.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
There's been enough of that. Release it, and release it fast.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
There's a solution to every single problem that has come
up in a quick solution. It doesn't seem like people
want it. It seems like it's being driven by salivating
over scandal as opposed to dissemination of the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
One of the things being the birthday Book.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I have numerous clients who know of the authenticity and
the existence of the birthday Book. Of course, it was
a birthday book that was given to Jeffrey Epstein on
his fiftieth birthday by Gielynn Maxwell. Jeffrey Epstein's dead. He
has an estate. Everybody who's knows anything about the story
knows that that knows. The estate exists and it's being
governed by the two executors. Darren Endyke, Jeffrey Epstein's former attorney,
(28:09):
Richard Kahn, Jeffrey Epstein's former accountant. Those are the two executors.
If somebody simply called them on the phone and said,
give us the book, they would probably give you the book.
They have attorneys. Their attorneys are good. Their attorneys are
good people. If they didn't just voluntarily turn over the
book out of fear of reprisal, Congress could issue a
(28:30):
subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson or at Troutman.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Those are the two law firms. I know those attorneys.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
They would turn the book over immediately. Nobody would have
to guess. There wouldn't need to be a lawsuit. There
wouldn't have to wait to be discovery. You would immediately
have the answers. You could flip to the page. Is
there a letter, Is there not a letter? It's over
the victims then get to move on. But that's not
what's happening. And that's why I agreed to come on,
because so many of them have called and said, somebody
(28:58):
needs to remind them real people are being hurt here.
The truth matters, transparency actually matters. Get this over with
and get it behind us.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
I want to go to that book because with your
familiarity with evidence against Jeffrey Epstein, which you've collected a
lot of through the discovery process, what do you know
specifically about that book? Do you know that they are
in that the estate, the relatives of Jeffrey Epstein, in effect,
through their lawyers, are in possession of that birthday book.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, I know that the executors of this date are
in possession of that book, and I think that after
they turn it over, it should probably be set in
the Smithsonian as an artifact. At this point in time,
it's going to go down in history so that the
world can see this book and they'll know who were
Jeffrey Epstein's best friends at the time, what letters did
his family write to him, what other pictures are in there,
(29:54):
things of that nature. Redact victim names, release the book
and move on.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So yes, the executors have it.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
So you've just identified not just for the news media,
but obviously for the House representatives who are now in
a mood to subpoena, and also Todd blanche in the
Trump Justice Department, who suddenly are getting curious about investigating this.
You've now told them exactly, according to your knowledge, where
the birthday book is, who is in possession of that book,
(30:26):
and all the House representatives would have to do tomorrow
is write up a subpoena for that book, and you
believe that it would be they would the lawyers involved
would comply with that subpoena.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I know the executors lawyers. I worked with them for years.
They're good people, they're good lawyers. They would comply with
the subpoena immediately. That it's something that we could solve
this problem so quickly. People actually want to solve problems
and as idea Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
One more thing, Bradley, you said, I think you said
that some of your clients have specific knowledge of that
birthday book.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Sure, yes, more than one, multiple of them.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And what is that knowledge?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
They saw it or they were around him when he
was fifty years old? Were they present at his birthday,
his fiftieth birthday.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I don't know the answer that last question. I do
know that they were involved in the assembly of the book.
Several of them. They were told by gill In to
assist in putting the book together. Others have seen the
books post birthday and after it was assembled. So the
(31:38):
existence of the book is it's an absolute fact. Now
who wrote letters, what's in the book? You're going to
have to get the book to figure it out. But
this isn't something that needs to be a mystery forever
and drag the victims into all kinds of anxiety for nothing.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
We can get that answer pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, I knew you were going to tell us
information about the whereabouts of the book that I knew
before we came on tonight. What I did not think
of in all the reporting that's been done about this
book and what you just said, which now seems obvious
when you say it, is that some of Jeffrey Epstein's
victims were actually used by Elaine Maxwell to assemble that
(32:22):
birthday book, to actually put those letters together in that book.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yeah, you have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein was abusing
and exploiting young women and children every day of his life.
So anybody that's around for any major events such as
the assembly of his fiftieth birthday book, they're going to
have to be involved in assembling or playing their part
whatever they were directed to do with respect to that book.
(32:49):
So yes, more than one more than what was involved.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
And just to that last point you said, every day
of his life. The evidence that you acquired through the
discovery and representing your clients indicates to you that Jeffrey
Epstein was committing this kind of rape with girls from
middle school and high school. As you just put it,
every day of his life.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Well, I would just the only caveat being.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Young children and young women, probably all under the age
of twenty five. But yes, you're right, as young as fourteen,
and I think that we've represented fifty that were under
the age of eighteen.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
But it wasn't only minors, just that caveat.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I think that the one thing that has really alarmed
our clients, particularly today, is the information that now Gilan
Maxwell's being visited in jail and that she is somehow
being given some credibility and a platform on this particular topic.
I think what people are forgetting is that Gilln Maxwell
(33:52):
wasn't only indicted on sex trafficking charges Giln Maxwell because
of testimony she gave on multiples in the civil cases
where we suit her, she provided testimony and as a
consequence of false testimony, she was indicted on two perjury
counts on this particular topic. So we're at we're going
to go and ask somebody to tell the truth. Who
(34:15):
is indicted on perjury charges related to this particular topic. Now,
does she have information that could potentially help yes, will
she be.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Truthful about it? Who knows.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
But whoever is going to be the questioner, whoever's going
to be the interrogator, must know more than just a
rudimentary understanding of the case. You have to have seen
her other deposition transcripts to know what she's said so
that you're going to keep her in line. You have
to know her testimony from her criminal trial to keep
her in line, and you have.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
To understand the case.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Sending somebody there that knows nothing, She's going to say
whatever she wants to say, and what's her incentive? Is
her incentive because she's going to get a deal. I
have many clients who say, look, President Trump and Galyn
Maxwell were good friends back then. Is he going to
commute her? Is he going to pardon her? And I
have said to them, look, I know that you feel
like an afterthought right now. I know that you feel
(35:05):
like you don't matter. For him to do that would
be he thought about you and he decided you don't
do not matter. I don't think that is on the table.
I don't think that he would ever do that. Maybe
I'm putting too much trust in him. Maybe I am.
But either way, if he's not going to do that,
(35:25):
what incentive does she have to say to tell him
anything if she's getting nothing out of it. So there's
a big problem here with the process, and it's just
another piece of the scandal that is causing enormous anxiety.
Let's all remember there were five victims at the heart
of the sex trafficking trial against Gilan Maxwell. Two are
(35:47):
no longer with us, they're dead. We're losing clients because
of the anxiety and the suffering of them and their families.
And they should be the first thought every single American
has when they think about this case. They shouldn't be
an afterthought and they shouldn't be forgotten. And that's how
(36:08):
it feels to them, Antony.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And just for the audience, the two that you mentioned
both clients of yours. One took her own life a
few months ago and another died of a parent drug
overdose last year. Attorney Bradley Edwards, thank you very much
for your invaluable perspective on this tonight and what you've
revealed to us about your knowledge about that birthday book
(36:33):
and how it can be obtained. Thank you very much
for joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Thank you for having me, Lawrence, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Coming up, Carnsman Rocanna might want to start working on
a new subpoena.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
He will join us next.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
The breaking news just minutes ago right here on MSNBC
is that Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book that contains a letter
that bears Donald Trump's name is in the possession of
the Epstein estate in Florida, and the estate lawyers would
respond to a subpoena.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Congress could issue a subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson
or at Troutman. Those are the two law firms I
know those attorneys. They would turn the book over immediately.
Nobody would have to guess there wouldn't need to be
a lawsuit. There wouldn't have to wait to be discovery.
You would immediately have the answers. You could flip to
the page.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Is there a letter? Is there not a letter? It's over.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Joining us now?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Is Democratic carsonan Rocanna of California? Remember the House Oversight Committee,
Carston Conne, you even been the driving force in the
House representatives to get the Epstein files released to the House.
Does it sound like it's time to maybe move for
a subpoena to get that book?
Speaker 9 (37:49):
Yes, Lawrence. First of all, that was a bombshell revelation
by Bradley Edwards. I appreciate your having me on to
hear that. It's important what he said that we have
to center the victims in this, and it's important to
hear what he believes the victims won, which is the
full complete release of the Epstein files. We're hearing directly
(38:11):
that's what the victims want. Second, it is a revelation
to me that he said that that birthday book is
with private lawyers in the Epstein estate. As you know
and reported earlier summer, Lee showed courageous leadership tray on
the Oversight Committee. We subpoena the Epstein files. But that's
a hard thing to do to get the Department of
(38:31):
Justice to cooperate in releasing those files. What's not hard
to do is to subpoena private attorneys in a private
estate and to get compliant. So I'm actually going to
invite Bradley Edwards to meet with the House Oversight Committee,
and I think we can easily move forward on this
subpoena of that birthday book, and which could really advance
(38:52):
this case.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
And this really does change the nature of the story
is a Donald Trump has said that the letter doesn't exist.
He said it's non existent. And so if this birthday
book can be obtained, if you can obtain it, you
can give us the answer of exactly how Donald Trump
(39:14):
is or is not represented in that book.
Speaker 9 (39:18):
Absolutely, we will know if the letter the Wall Street
Journal reported on, if that is in the book or not,
or if there any other letters or correspondence of Donald
Trump in the book. We also will know whether hundreds
of other people who have been implicated in sex trafficking
are in the book. And of course we would take
absolute care to make sure the victims are protected. But
(39:41):
the biggest thing I heard tonight is that this is
what the victims want and this should not be a
political issue. This should be an issue for justice. And
I think it's really courageous that Bradley Edwards came on
your program. I appreciate him doing that. And this guidance
is very helpful for our committee because we can't trust
the Trump Justice Department that is going to get slowed down.
(40:03):
It's going to be get bogged down. Even if we subpoena.
They can try to defy the subpoena. I don't trust
the DOJ to prosecute themselves for contempt of Congress. But
what we can do through Congress is go after these
Jeffrey Epstein estate and we've seen even Republicans are willing
to vote with us on that this may be the
cleanest way forward.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Carson Rocanna, thank you very much for Jenny our breaking
news coverage tonight.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Thank you, and coming up, we'll.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Be we'll be back with Andrew Weisman. We'll get his
reaction to what he just learned about the Jeffrey Epstein
birthday book and how it can be obtained now through subpoena.
We'll be right back with Andrew Weisman.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
Congress could issue a subpoena to their attorneys at Patterson
or at Troutman. Those are the two law firms I
know those attorneys. They would turn the book over immediately.
Nobody would have to guess. There wouldn't need to be
a lawsuit. They wouldn't have to wait to do to
be discovery. You would immediately have the answers. You could
flip to the page is there a letter? Is there
not a letter? It's over.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Andrew Weisman is back with us, and Andrew I suspect
that Rocanna and the House representatives might be in a
subpoena race right now with the Trump Justice Department. It
is entirely possible that the Trump Justice Department could issue
a subpoena immediately to try to obtain that birthday book
from the estate in Florida that Bradley Edwards just identify
(41:32):
as in possession of the Epstein birthday book, which is
supposed to contain a letter that bears Donald Trump's name.
Is it possible that the Justice Department could just subpoena
that first thing tomorrow morning, get possession of it and
no one would ever see it.
Speaker 8 (41:49):
That is possible. It is also possible that they actually
have it already. Remember that the Department of Justice has
said that they have thirty gigabytes of information pursuant to
this investigation. Remember this case went to trial, so there's
been a thorough investigation before today, and so we don't
(42:13):
know the full complement of everything they have. I should
also point out, in addition to the point that you
were guest made, which was just wonderful, is that what
you could subpoena from the estate is not just the
birthday book. But if it's the estate of Jeffrey Epstein,
they may have a whole repository of information about what
(42:38):
he was doing and detailed records of who he was
doing it with, And so the subpoena does not have
to be so narrowly tailored that it's just asking for this.
The other thing, Laurence, I just want to make a
point of the real issue here that people shouldn't forget
(42:59):
is callousness of the Department of Justice and what it's doing.
The victims had a right to notice, They had a
right to be heard before any motion was made to
make anything public. Their voices are statutorily required to be heard,
and the judges vindicated that.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But you have the Deputy Attorney.
Speaker 8 (43:23):
General ignoring the law, and it really sends a red
flag that this is being done for political purposes, that
you would ignore the victims in a case like this.
Presumably that is why the case was brought, was to
vindicate their rights, and you're seeing that thrown away. And
I think that's the real message from your last guests.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
So to stay on the birthday book for another minute.
Is it possible that the estate has the original and
that the Epstein files in the Justice Department have a
copy of it?
Speaker 8 (44:02):
Yes, absolutely, or vice versa.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
It is.
Speaker 8 (44:05):
It is quite typical when I did investigations that we would,
if necessary, have the original but leave a copy. And
sometimes it would be the reverse because we didn't need
to have the original. Sometimes you want that for evidentiary value.
But this is the kind of thing that I would be.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I wouldn't be.
Speaker 8 (44:29):
It wouldn't be beyond the you know, the possibility. But
I think it would be unlikely that prosecutors as adept
as those in the Southern dist of New York who
had this case, that they would not have seen this
already even if they didn't take the original.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
And at the end of when the Epstein suicide happens
that case is over. Is the appointed processes like that
where the prosecutors have possession of material if they obtained,
where they simply say, okay, we're handing this back because
it has no evidentiary value for us. We're not using
this in court, so we're going to give this original back.
Speaker 8 (45:11):
That does happen, but it wouldn't have happened in this
case at this point. Why because Glaine Maxwell still was
going to trial and her case is not over. There
still is an appeals process. In fact, in a request
for FOYA documents, that is for the public release of documents,
(45:32):
there's litigation over that. The Department of Justice took the
position that they couldn't turn things over because the Glaine
Maxwell case was still ongoing because of that appeals process.
While that is ongoing, you do not return evidence because
you don't know if you may need it going forward.
So I would find it highly unlikely that that material
(45:54):
would have been turned back over to a private party
at this point.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And just to underline your point, the procedure to get
grand jury testimony released requires you to first of all,
get noticed to possible victims in that testimony and make
sure it's okay with them, and the Trump Justice Department
didn't do that, which seems to make their attempt to
get the grand jury information released just a legally phony
(46:22):
attempt it is.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
It is a complete phony red herring in my view,
as you pointed out in your initial introduction, any single
day of the week, this minute, there are thirty gigabytes
of investigative material that are that presumably a huge portion
of that is not grand jury material. The government does
(46:47):
not need court authorization to turn that over.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Ander Weisman. I'm going to need you back here tomorrow night.
Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
See you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
That is tonight's last word.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.