Too $hort Interview - The Making of a Bay Area Legend

Dub C and CJ Mac sit down with Too Short to discuss the life and Times in the making of a Bay Area Legend!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Just letting y'all know we got alot of content coming then, y'all know,
just right here the original platform rightnow for some of that real uncut
rash, especially coming from the WestCoast. Subscribe click click click click,
click click click subscribe duve C,c J Maxshall, What up? C
Mcmonnie camera, dub C and cJ dub dub cing c J u C

(00:22):
and c J dub C and cJ dub C and c J Maxshall,
Welcome back to the dove C andc J Mack Show. I am and
always will be CJ. Mack andI am duve c still duve c.
Yes, Sir, skips skip akaa skip skip. What's up? Bro
brother? We'll we got going today? Man. Man, we got the

(00:43):
homie in the house. Man,we got the real homie house. You
know what I'm saying. And we'vebeen keeping this thing real, real,
real West Coast, you know whatI'm saying. Now, we're gonna slide
up the West Coast, but theWest Coast. I know that I saw
him slide up the West Coast goingup north. Man. You know we've
been keeping that thing down south alittle bit. Man. We gotta go
up, No and who else bettercould we go out that? Uh?

(01:07):
Then know me? Man? Whowe got here today? Man? We
got the big timp player. Man, y'all know, yeah, y'all put
some respect on his name. Wheny'all said to show shot shot the fan
got damn man in the game showyou up with it? It's out bro,
Bro, what's hating with you?Man? I mean you know we
we we we got many many moonsthat we knowing each other. Man,
Like, yeah, this ain't gonnabe now typical. This ain't gonna be

(01:30):
now typical. Sit down, man, We're gonna sit back man, like
like like we know when we're activein the eighties man all of it.
Yeah, yeah, you know whatI want to start it off talking about
that, you know, just totell me, you know, you don't
show man, you don't show youto go to school over here. I'm
like, na, no, no, no no. And I got a
chance to talk to the show showslike yeah that store over there that wo

(01:55):
y'all been through that I would doingthat school blah blah blah blah. I
got I got connection brother, likelike connections to the community around that way.
Yeah, like like yo, yeah, because I went to the Capital
School right there. And then youknow, on the other side, my
auntie was on one hundred and eighthand Western with a little beauty shop on

(02:15):
the court of my auntie Beverly.And everybody know my Auntie Beverly. And
then you fucked me when you starttalking about the Holly Park. Yeah all
I mean, I mean that wasthe route I was used to play around
there. All that shit man fuckingall that sportsman party. An't gonna tell
you about your hohood because he becausehe na he lash no no no,

(02:37):
no, no, no, nono. That's why this is where you
gotta give him this, because heplaying, na playing playing he figured this
though. This is why I'm soconnected. I moved away as against it,
right, But my father had afew brothers and sisters that moved out
here from Mississippi, and my motherhad a few brothers and sisters that moved

(02:57):
out here from Louisiana. And that'sso when they married and had kids,
I got a gang of cousins untie, his uncles all over lay. Even
when I when I bowed Oakland,I still it was never you know,
everywhere, bro, that family,family all on all sides, everywhere,
and then from being here as akid. When I come back as a

(03:19):
rapper, I know the streets,I know people like, Yeah, it
was. It was an advantage tomy whole career, bro, that whole
thing going up there, jump startingit. Yeah, the gang, the
pimp shit and having a family,a family base, and a navigation through
La, like knowing how to navigateLA. I mean you just be surprised,

(03:42):
like like if I told y'all.So, I don't really share this
with a lot of people, butas a little kid, I would be
like. My cousins lived on eightyfourth and Fig in between Fig and Hoover.
Just just really active kids though kids. Nothing. I ain't banged,
nothing but a firecracker. My cousinslived over there. That would have been

(04:02):
the Hooba hood back in the day. My cousins lived on fucking Adams and
the uh it was the Marven's backthen, right off of Adams and spouting
fucking the niggas lived on Alandra andright by the Compton Airport right there.
Yeah, niggas lived over there.I got my cousin either and he lived

(04:26):
on one hundred and fifth in Normandy, and I later find out it was
what the one on five hubs andone of them six Normandy. Yeah,
around the corner fall and something somethingsomething over the right. Then you know,
I went to school with a bunchof one of lemons and they just
with the capital school niggas going tobe one of lemons and rains and shotguns

(04:48):
live on motherfucking uh Raley Park rightthere, fucking hundred thirty. I'm just
saying they got like, like therethat shit, crazy cousins. U still
living the swamps the camp comp Yeah, oh shit, b So you knew
all about in La when you hadto come back to It's crazy. So

(05:08):
I'm just saying that it helped you. But but what fun What fucked all
of us up was you don't neverlike you said, you don't speak on
it. So when you hear niggadropping actual name streets facts of I was
when whoop, whoop and whoop likethat that kind of fuck me. I
was like, damn, I waslike this right, here's dangerous. Yeah,

(05:29):
he turned me out too well.They got it wasn't that easy though.
La is a rough city. They'relike, I can't tell you how
many times I got my bike stole? Yeah, yeah, my bike stole
so many times that I start stealingbikes. Ye, but yeah, you
know what, that's what you do. That's what you do. You learn
that you can't meet. My firstday junior high school, I said,
Okay, I see how I didn'tgo. Okay, I'm easy to be

(05:51):
a jumper or a jump jump,and I ain't bought being no jump bro.
You learned it. Yeah, hegot here in school around here.
Man, we're not voting none ofthat because that needs to change now.
Just it's just a it's a it'sa survival thing, man, you know

(06:12):
it ain't. It ain't no badgerfinder on being tougher talking about I was
running wild in the streets and Niggajust was walking through the rain dropping you
know what I'm saying, Like youimagine a little nigga, same thing and
opening nigga, little nigga on hisbike, pedeling like nigga like it's it's
a it's a it's dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. I feel for these little
niggas nowadays because it's it's way crazierwhen I was a little bit, when

(06:34):
we was little. Yeah, Ican't imagine what they got guns now.
I'm still looking for that nigga whojacked me for my honey bun exactly.
He talks about that checked me.You know, it is looking for that
nigga the jam. But I can'tfind that nigga. I know he is,
but I can't find that nigga jackedme from my honey bun. And
I was walking from the liquor storethat nigga came on the modo Max on

(06:55):
that motherfucking on that swing. Yeah, yeah, nigga caught up with me
like we had them teas and Grandmama'sthereby stole your bike. Look at the
car. Yeah, oh my mama, Yeah, Betty was. Betty was
with the pistol. Yeah, mymom carried the pistol every day of her
life. Bro. She had like, what where you know my son?

(07:18):
My son got jack right, butso with the school. I'm sorry he
got Jack right. I told himwhat was gonna happen, and it happened
just like it happened right. Heshowed him by my mom's house, started
jagging off, no shoes all right, and my mama, my mom was
here. Oh, let's getting thecar. Let's go, Mama, run

(07:39):
around all around the piste the car. Man, I'm like, oh,
man, that has to be embarrassingbad. So look, man, I
want to ask you something about BayArea Pride. That is one of the
most profitful places I've ever seen inmy life. The bath. Everybody is
together. What's happened with the bayman? Why is he like that?

(08:00):
It's just um. The thing thateverybody gravitates towards is the game, which
is the game. You could justsum it up as knowledge, but really
it's when they say the game,they're talking about the street game, pimp
game. Yeah, leaning towards oneor the other, but you gotta have
that gift to gad. You cannever be a pimp if you can't talk

(08:20):
it right. So if they breedthis thing where you don't gotta be a
pimp, you just kind of gottabe pimp ish. Yeah, you gotta
know the game. Like, ifyou don't know it, then it's if
you don't know it, then it'sgonna get ran on you. It's just
it's the same thing. But likelife though, it's like reading the writing
on the wall in the hood.You don't know how to read the writing.

(08:43):
You might be in the wrong place, right. And I used to
look at the graffiti on the wallin La and be like, and shit
is looked like writing to me,there's a whole story right here. Yeah,
it's telling you shit that happened tolast three four years. Hit that's
gonna happen. And the same waywith that game, Man, You'll be
talking to somebody and they just beslicking you the whole time, and you'd
just be not understanding it's the gameand you're just learning. It's a crazy

(09:07):
difference. I like something we weretalking about one time, Like you said
that debate refused to conform to whatwas handing down here. I like,
yeah, it was. It wasjust it was cities like Oakland. Man,
It's just, um, the prideis so strong man that you can't
come and give Opland a new lookor a new talker a new way of

(09:31):
life. Like he like, bro, we we we invent new shit every
day. We've been on our ownship. Yeah. Even when you break
it down within Oakland, it's alot of when I was coming up,
it's a lot of motherfuckers trying tobe individuals. Like I want to be
a one off. I don't reallywant to be you know, looking like
that look like even if you likedressing different. But you're moving different,

(09:54):
you know what I'm saying. Yourcool is different. You just want to
do something that the other nigga's didn'tdo. So it was always um that's
why all the slang words and ship. I don't know where that ship come
from. But it's a whole bunchof motherfuckers trying to cope with a new
word. Yeah, and a newword. You know, they just eat
forty. It is a whole bunchof motherfuckers. They be slipping man and
just just dropping on motherfucker's one day, like break out your new word and

(10:16):
what it might catch on It mightnot, Yeah, it might just be
your word that only you user itjust yeah. Because like when I when
I first got there, one ofthe first things I got fascinated with was
the pimps. Yeah, because inLa, I saw the pimps. I

(10:39):
saw all the movies that came outin the seventies with the pimps. But
Oakland, you know, La,I see a pimp, you know that's
probably a pimp. Oakland niggas.It was just right there, like the
niggas riding down the street with acar full of holes and stop and then
bitches get out and spread out andstart working. We uhould go to the
hole, show a little back.We go get off, you know,

(11:01):
somewhere a little cut when when andnobody's wain just kicked back and watch the
pimps pimp and watch the holes holeand it was like a show. I'm
talking about the phone nineteen eighty fivewhen Fen when crack was crack snuck in
like crack crack came in as anelegant thing. It was free base and

(11:22):
you know, people who was ballingfree base, ranging about it and what
attracted what attracted you to the pimpgame. Though, first and foremost I
was at a young age. Iwas convinced that all these bad bitches belonging
with me, like they like Ididn't have them yet, but I was
like, like they'd be looking atebony or something, Yeah you need to

(11:46):
be with me. Like I feltlike I got to grow up to live,
to live up to this ship.And I got it from you know,
the coolest niggas in the movies wasthe pimps. I mean they just
was like the gang should be popoweredshooting and ship and yeah running and ver
fucked up. Pimp was always likeyeah, you know the money. So

(12:07):
I was like, I like thisnigga, but you know what I mean,
like all even the Bill Cosby,the Sydney Party eight movies, they
they you know, the let'sn't evengo deeper, go looking motherfucking like Bloodstone
album covers, Isa Brothers album covers, fucking up guitar. I'm loving the

(12:28):
music and looks like. I didn'twant to be prostituted women. I just
wanted to roll a card and looklike a pimp. That was the first
dream. If I had to be, if I had to be a pimp
to get to that, I couldhave went that round. But I was
I was always looking at like,you know, financially, I'm thinking like

(12:48):
where I want to go with theship. You know, my pop's doing
good moms and like they like pressurethe nigga, Like, you can't be
a failure, so I gotta Igotta show improve to win, right,
you know. And hip hop camealong, but even if it did,
if it didn't come along, Iwas gonna I was gonna hustle, hustle
my way into something really like thatwould get me the fly car and the

(13:09):
bitches, Like there's no doubt aboutit. Wow, there's no doubt,
so you never should you never actuallypimp. I dabbled, but I didn't
really get into it. I gotall the pimper I did was voluntary pimper.
I never told a bitch give meyour money. Right. Every time
I ever pimped the bitches like heretake this money, it was it was
more like, yeah, that wasfaccuated with too short the character and the

(13:33):
ship I want to hope for tooshort. I wasn't putting in the word
from him from ground zero, likebitch, you know, get your mind,
Reagan. I wasn't going and andand hip hop kind of it kind
of put me in the pipping spacethat I really needed to be where I
really wanted to be. Spit thegame passed, the game on interpret the

(13:54):
game were dropping, game Runner,let's talk about hip hop? What you
know, when was the moment thatyou said, this is it for me.
I'm about to jump on this righthere, um not let alone what
you was talking about. I foundit real easy to make good songs,
and I found it really easy torock the crowd whenever you put me on
the mic. And in the earlydays, there was no dream of this

(14:16):
is for financial game it was likeI want to rock the crowd. I
want to see motherfuckers jamming in myship. So I was really good at
that. And when it started growing, like you know, after run DMC
and shit in LLL and BC's andRussell Simmons kicked in, you know,
the big money of being a rapper, I was right there on the curve
of like rocking bigger crowds and biggercrowds, and and you know, like

(14:37):
like when King t and then slidin and easy, I'm like right there
sliding in you know that eighty sixeighty five, like building that momentium shiit.
So it just it just kind oflike put everything to the side.
That would have been a dream.And I never fucking like I never got
a chance to be a drug dealerbecause I always off hip hop. I

(15:01):
never got a chance to pimpa holeand I ate off hip hop. Never
got a chance to go to collegebecause hip hop was feeding me. So
it was just always like wow,right on time. I never had the
struggle of damn man, I wishsomebody has signed me, or I wish
I could get on like it wason first rhyme. I was on your
first work was independent, right.Yeah, we were selling tapes in the
street, first popping like a motherfucker, doing house parties, DJ and Me

(15:24):
and my nigga, Freddie B.And then I got with seventy five Girls
Records. It was kind of local, but it was spreading out a little
bit. They was coming down hereand you know, it was moving around
the West Coast. And then Iworked my way up in Freaky Tails,
which was where we started our owncompany. Before that, I was with
the Homies. My homie Jerry waswith his big brother, Dean Hodges.

(15:45):
You hear that name Dean. Deanwas a low key street nigga who probably
you know. He was a littlenigga in the streets, but when he
got bigger, he was a youhad to come to him. You weren't
gonna find Dean on the corner likeyou weren't gonna make no delivery yet to
come to where if he said,come come here. That kind of nigga,
right, And he loved music,so he was bringing up musicians around

(16:06):
all that shit. But yeah,man, uh you know, I just
kind of uh yeah, been inthe right place the right time a lot.
So I remember, man, Iwas trying trying to. I spent
a lot of time trying to getout the streets and getting music. I
love music. I've been right rapsfourteen years old, but I ain't really
get active to later on in lifewhen I was looking at people like you

(16:26):
and you spoil you had money beforeyou was a rapper. Yeah, have
money, but I still but Ilike rapping already, you know what I'm
saying. And I wrapped all y'allsongs and I felt I was pretty good,
you know what I'm saying. SoI really really wanted to do it,
you know what I mean. Andyou thought because you really was already
living a life and you do everybodybecause you have been hang out with all

(16:47):
the rappings. Yeah before I needYeah, but you know, I wheeled
my way into that though. Partedmeeting y'all, I said, I'm gonna
wheel my way into this. I'mgonna I'm gonna start being around them and
learning and what they do and shitlike that. When I started, I
can't run y'all. Intentionally, Itold everybody like, hey man, man,

(17:07):
we need to start wrapping. Itwas like when I first was the
first time I knew you had bars. Was the scarface do it. Oh
yeah, pull up it, y'all. Y'all y'll talk about how you pull
up kicking it? Yeah, onproduct soundtrack exactly. You know what be
it? Before that, I justwas around and kicking it. You know.
I wasn't out there with the showwith him. I was on the
show with him. Way I thinkhe was at that show too. Yeah.

(17:33):
Yeah, it was all million usdays, right, Yeah, he
was on the build. But Isaw y'all man, and I saw the
way y'all were doing. I sI could do this. So you encouraged
a whole lot of people, andthey helped me out the streets. He
was the first two shows. Twoshows. Was the first up spit like

(17:55):
a hundred bar three hundred bar freehead. That ship was long, a
lot of songs like that. Butthe ship that had us going out here,
it was freaky tails. The shipyou was talking about, the way
you would just see me and myrap partner Freddie b. That was our
style. Like we we used tosell um. We used to body thirty

(18:18):
minute cascents, fifteen minutes on eachside, and one side would be a
fifteen minute song and the other sidebe another fifteen minute song. We would,
I would do the pause a mixright, so you spit your ship
and when you finish or you fuckup or whatever, I just hit Paul
Nigga. I don't know about thepaulse mix. And then when I lifted,
we right rap where backflow, youwill have a whole fucking fifteen minute

(18:41):
just black and we're just talking ship. We know what the fucking hook was.
So later I really got the shipfrom like super rhymes, a lot
of New York like like count coolout the niggas was forever with Noah,
like that's that's that was just thestyle adapter too. So when they asked
what I wanted my first out ofme now so we're out, I said,

(19:02):
don't stop rapping, don't man,we have much break right back break
break man. We must don't wantdropping game show dog in the house.
Yeah. Yeah, we got worthth we got west Side to Worth,

(19:29):
we got hoodies like worth Sill gotwork for sale, we got work for
sale, we got merch for sale. We're at dub C and c j
MC dot com. Get it,get it. He can't be boys.
Shit, you got a bit hit. What fucked me up and was when
we heard freaky tales back in eightyseven, but were in La We're Freaky

(19:53):
tells not just to hear you rhymingto fuck me up? And a lot
of us was how long you wasrhyming? You're talking about you know how
you don't stop rapping with the pausebutton back in the days. But when
we heard that on how long youwas rhyming and what you was rapping about?
You was on the bitches man.Yeah, And and it was.
It was real basic. It wasjust a baseline and an eight away drum
machine wasn't too much more. Iwas I was playing with a little sense

(20:15):
of synthesizer. That's me on thebeat. Wow, just just playing it,
you know, you know you're programmingbeat. Yeah, that's me just
sitting there. Wait wait you producedthat as well. Yeah, that's me
sitting there playing the baseline the wholetime. That's why if you listen to
baseline, the ship is I callit dophine music. And the ship is
like really infectious, like if youlisten to it, like the baseline is

(20:36):
doing something to you. At thesame time, it's another sounds like it
is doing something to you. Theship talking is doing something to you.
The kid drummers like murdering the speakers, so it's safe, hold on,
hold on, let's take it back. So it's safe to say besides doctor
Dre, who was getting down backthen, you was one of the first
artists from the West Coast produced andrhyme on its own ship. Yeah,

(21:03):
but look though I respect the hell, I was right, nobody can from
But at the same time, Iwas listening to everything comes from New York,
everything comes from LA and I waslike, niggas really ain't on that
keyboard like me. So I wasjust like, hella basic, just dud,
dude, I was. I wasblasting the bass. They was in
the argument in studio somebody's too muchbass. I was like that. Especially

(21:30):
I was watching how everybody was cuttingand being precise and grabbing a little samples.
I was just like, like,listen to Dophin you know what.
A lot of times, a lotof times the game overshadows the talent the
music. This dude right here wasreally a student of the game. So
you really was like, as ayoung rapper, it's all the influencers out

(21:51):
there to llls and shit. Youknow, I'm like, I could easily
like hook these phrases up and startspitting this, you know, intelligent shit.
But I was like, I'm likeshow dog baby on the mic,
stitch the like, like I thinkit can't rap. I'm like, y'all
don't even get ye get nothing todo with the cadence of the flow.

(22:12):
It's the motherfucking shit talking at allthat base. Yeah, you sitting there
listening to hip hop and some headphonesand you know your little shit at the
house. These niggas look bumping me. I was a little dollars litt whippers
in the car and I'm rather Icouldn't even I could just say nothing on
my songs. And I'm still inplay. That's still gone, you know,

(22:37):
before we get the world, we'regone, you know with the name
I'm about to drop with my myWestmore. I intentionally stood in the crowd.
I got a chance because I wasn'tperforming out there with Cute, got
a chance to set up and watchyou tell me that I told you too.
I told you and Snoop this niggaset up. Watch Fodi, Snoop

(22:57):
Cute and you on stage getting downall y'all do your thing. My nigga,
I ain't gole front I knew youhad heaters, but the way that
the crowd reacted to every time youwent out there and got down my nigga,
you just said something about it.I could play my music and I
don't really have to say nothing.The crowd is gonna react to this day,

(23:18):
even when you when you put onblow the Whistle, it's just something
about your ship. Now when thatmotherfucking music come on, motherfucker's lose,
ain't mind you always had that thatthat that frame of thinking, parliament fucking
delic I was one of those peoplefortunate enough in nineteen seventy six to see
the Mothership land and when that motherfuckinglanding, like, I'm already listening to

(23:41):
crowds crazy and then I've already heardof the Mothership Connection album, I heard
Chocolate City and then um, youknow the fucking um. I don't even
think I was out by the Yeah, I don't know, but it was
the boots were boot. They landedthat spaceship and just the I it took

(24:07):
me from being a fan of tolisten to the music to actually becoming like
I was p funk. I wasjumped into the motherfucking shit for life,
and my mentality in the studio wasalways like the funk man. So I'd
be trying to like say funky shitand and make funky music, and I
like, I try to make thefunk be more important than what everybody else

(24:30):
is, like NI gonna flowing,Like who are you the bars? I'm
like, the funk is gonna killyou, Like it's something that it's something
that you can't really outdated and shit, So I got lucking pimping and the
funk like you can't. I can't, you can't really outgrow it, Like,
oh, you're an old ass pimp. Yeah, yeah, crazy you

(24:52):
mean cube that had this conversation manytimes. Uh, it's not not taking
away from you know, from y'allskills of getting down on the mic,
but being being smart enough to sayfuck the bullshit. I only got only
got a certain amount of time,even though you you took it to the
next level of rhyming a long timewhen your records, but even when you
do records, Now, what madeyou say I want to just cut the

(25:15):
bullshit? Like you said earlier,I could be talking this intelligence because I
was, like CJ said, CJsaid, when I came in the game,
talking abou himself. He said,I was trying to be a rapper.
Yeah, I wanted to be respectedas a rapper because I saw that's
what was going on. He CJ'slike, I've done all this shit,
the stretch these niggas talking about NowI know that I could do this shit
and he good at it. Butyou know he's I could do chip my
sleep. What made you say?And I used to ask you what make

(25:37):
what make? Ask you? What'swhat made you jump straight to talking about
the gangster shit and being different andtalking about what niggas can relate to and
what they wanted? What made youjump into the pimp shit talking about these
bitches like that was in your music, Like you said, you could have
did intelligence shit but with the funk. What made you jump into that?
Though? It was a real fascinationwith the culture man like it was.

(25:59):
It wasn't just outside of looking inLike I literally started hanging out with og
pimps and just just observing theisms andshit, and then I used to do
this one thing that helped me writea lot of songs. I used to
just throw it out there and justask hos like what made you be a
home and every every time you askto hold that ship, you get a

(26:21):
new song. Like it's just it'sjust I talked to like um like a
like a bump. Nigga's just homeless, brod. I'm like, bro,
what you know what happened? Man? Nigga? Like, Nigga, you
don't know. I don't. Theyused to call me such a since I
was out of here as set myhouse. I'm like, well, they
can tell me the story. Andthey can tell me the story. It's
a fucking song, you know whatI mean. I used to really talk
to the streets of Oakland and Itell people, Wow, every time you

(26:45):
ask me, like what's what's yourinspiration writing songs, I'm like Oakland.
I just I came into Oakland,Like I feel like if you was born
and raised there, you might takesome things for granted. I came there
as an outside of looking around goingthis shit is like it's like the better
than any movie I ever seen.And I'm walking this ship like I'm landed
in the movie scene. Yeah,And I'm like, I'm like Nigga,

(27:07):
like when I heard the message,I didn't really get it. So I
heard the message and that Nigga wasrapping about broken Glass everywhere. I was
like, Nigga, I've never beenin New York. But after I heard
that song, I've been in NewYork, New York. I was like,
I'm gonna make niggas come to open, and I started to pick.
I didn't need no video, Likesome of my best songs ain't got no
video. But the motherfucker you cansee it. You don't need a video

(27:30):
for freaking tails. You see thatship. Nothing that's incredible. He did
a lot of that without visuals.Yeah, man, I wasn't even trying
to be on the radio nigga.Like when you saw about Cube and Me
and and Snoop and Fodi, Ifeel like, like Nigga, I was
trying to run from that ship likesnooper A Mega Star. Yeah, you
know, cue like niggas, Itain't a lot of niggas that got more

(27:52):
platinum amas than me, you knowwhat I mean? The list of niggas
that got more platinums than me isa really short list. Both of them
niggas do. But I'm I'm I'mhanging in there with with the You know
who was the heavy heavy Wasighte onthe West, the Laos you know the
niggas who was going to platinum,platinum, platinum, platinus. We got

(28:14):
a lot of artists we loved thatwas going to go go go, Yeah,
nigga, all my ships one single, maybe no single platinum. It
was just it was on that thatbeat, that love. You come out
there and it's that love. LikeI used to do shows and they say,
um, why you don't got nodances, Why you ain't got no
hype man, Why you ain't gotno DJ. I'm like, nigga,

(28:34):
watch this I've got there. Saythe first two lines and just hold that.
I tell you the story all thetime doing that. When we was
in San Diego and you came outthere with your phone, Yeah nigga,
you remember that because you haven't doneit so many times. I just seemed

(28:56):
to dude, come out, nohype man or fucking phone, hook his
ship up to something. I don'tknow what the fuck going on? This
niggas a one man show. Reckon, nigga. I'm thinking that. You
know, Oh I got Nick showingget down the show don't here yet?
Yeah, you know Showan won hisown time doing this thing. He beat
business man. He there, you'regonna be on time, but he wasn't

(29:17):
there yet. I got on stage, I got niggas going in saying,
there, nigga, you know I'mhitting them with all kinds of connect shit,
hitting with the dug out of thestreets everything. I'm like, I
got off on this motherfucker man,nigga pull up cool as a fan of
the Huldrum subbed up, Yeah,all right, man, I hollybust somebody
there in the show. He wasgonna chopping out my nigg this big walk.
I'm looking like, what the TJhe just you know, it's either

(29:37):
him, Paul or somebody. Youknow he got sticking on on stage with
the phone boo woo word for word, and don't let him hit you with
the what's my favorite word the wholeworld? Yeah, you know what I'm
saying. I mean, it fucksme up, my nigga. And and
also to show that's why I askedyou, I'm earlier about what made you

(29:59):
jump that talk about that because tome, that's one of the reasons that
everybody gravitate to you. But itain't. It ain't an act man.
It's like, that's what I was. I love that shit, but a
lot of people see a lot ofwomen, A lot of women, y'all
get mad. You know what I'msaying. Why y'all always they always they
not just show. They're always talkingbad about you know, females and comings

(30:22):
out our names and all that.Dude, Even though we love, you
know, the men, we'd beout there, we know, we know
show dog, come on that whatwe're getting, we'll be looking for.
But majority of the women I meanare the people in the crowd. When
I was out there at that concert, when you qu snoopers out there,
dude, the people that were screaming, a lot of us were seeing word

(30:45):
or word females. Females is onyou, dude, because of that right
there. I love it, man. That shit is crazy to seeing nigga
talk that shit and call them outthe names and all that. And I
guess a lot of females, No, no, a lot of females know
you ain't talking to that particular femaleyou talk. It's in the writing.

(31:06):
I say she's a bitch a lot. I say that bitch a lot,
so yeah, she could deflect it. Yea, you have been said that
bitch did this. Yeah it feelsgood. I never noticed that you do
that purposely, so you probos.They give them room to deflect them.
I bet the songs you can singalong to him. I write my songs
so you can sing along to him, and I don't write too many words

(31:27):
so that you can't sing along withit. So we all got the right
breath control to sing too short.So what that's so smart and so dope,
bro, because that's how I sayrap is like when rap was really
difficult and all that, Bro,the average person couldn't do it, they
like, but when you the easierthe song was, the more people grab

(31:47):
it. I'm like, if Ican't perform my song live, then I
don't want to record in the studiolike that. So that that required me
to dumb it down a little bit. And where I would have said a
couple of extra words on the turnaroundto the next one, how to stop
Wow, you check check your style. This is what's incredibly He chased his
style. He don't have to alterthe style. But then each record is

(32:10):
still different. Oh, I letme at one other thing too. That's
crazy. Nobody ever stole my voice, you know, Nigga, Nigga's voice.
Nigga, I was about to nobodygot it on the voice. Let's
just talk about that when I firstheard you, your cadence, when I
first heard your cadence was so differentand your delivery. You know, these
aren't the tails. The freaky WestCoast nigga was the southern twenty yeah nigga,

(32:35):
but most West Coast niggas got familyfrom the south. Yea. That
ship was so cold, my nigga, you know, And it's crazy.
Let's take it back coming out ofOakland. Who was the first ones to
come out of Oakland with you knowwho? It was somebody before you that's
too shortened, Freddie B. Therewas no other. Nobody made a anything
if you wrapped before too shortened,Freddie B. And nobody knows, okay,

(33:01):
where the forty come along? Fortycame down the line. Forty probably
was like a eighty six eighty youknow, somewhere in me then it could
have been it could have been eightyfive eighty six going out of me.
And Freddy B was eighty one eightytwo active. We was, We was
the ones that was you know,these are our guys. This we got
all the rappers and we was reallyrepping the motherfucking town to the fullest it

(33:24):
was you know right, you knowwhat you know another thing, man like,
because every now and then I dolike to pop my colleague. I
love that. I love the factthat not only am I the first rapper,
Like literally if you lined everybody up, like you had to go get
a nigga like Tupac to find arapper from the Bay that has more accolades

(33:46):
than me, more platinum, moregold and just you know, forty is
my nigga. Yeah, right todie. I love forty. When he
hit that that second win, nigga, about the third fourth win, you
already know lood and nig I mightbe the biggest E forty fan period,
you know, and for you know, you could check it right now.

(34:07):
Track record he running we all ran, if we if we all ran a
fucking relay racist something. This isrunning a marathons like he's going. But
I'm just telling you, man,like, go look at the stats.
Niggas don't would really go back andcheck, like we we're forgetting hip hop.
Yeah, look at the fucking stats. Man Like the stats. I'm

(34:28):
like, I'm like Hammon, whosold uh you know, Hamming sold probably
like twenty thirty million. Don't wantto album right, But I did that
shit album album Albumblatum platinum, platinum, platinum, I'm on feature platinum,
platinumat like it's just like it's likethe track record and it's just you know,

(34:49):
you don't have a rapper from acity and you go, you know
so and so was the first onefrom out here, and then that niggad
be the nigga who got the mostaccolades. And nigga still be active when
you're telling that story, you know, like so so the first one,
and he'd be like, oh,nigga got killed to someone that nigga,
Yeah, off yours? Yeah firstnigga, that's dog. That's do you

(35:12):
deserve your flowers? Man, giveme your know, that's all we honor
to have you on the should today. Man. Now you don't me
you know what I'm saying. Butalso your accomplishments. Man, you're bad
man. Man, you've been doingthis ship for a long god damn time.
Man, you're bad man. Brother. May you have me pull up?
Nigga got me pull up, allup and deep up in the six
hilthood. Yeah, like I thisnigga really came to the compound. I'm

(35:35):
like, yeah, they got here. They got me Haro bells on the
time. Yeah he my fo hemy finding man, he gonna come through.
Man, I got I got onefor you Dominoes in Oakland at Kiki
House. Who would I do you? You play Dominoes Oakland. Niggas are
not crips or bloods, but theywill not stop using the word blood.

(35:55):
Book. Yeah, and we justcj CO spend days. Man, he
come kicking for days. He withthis on me, that on me moving
around. He just he'd be openednigga for a week or two. Isn't
nigg we're playing domino this nigga said, because cuse cut eve nigga saying blood.
He's like, nigga, I mean, my whole life, anybody,

(36:19):
because he mustn't be getting his assm getting his ass kicked on the tail
they got like a rip hed aqrip fit and he's like he can't take
this shit. Y'all's kicking his asson They said, you nigga's gonna stop
saying blood right stop. That's theonly reason I nigga was slippers. She
gonna be tripping. But it waslike, Mama, you know, nigga,
just blood blood, what's up?What's up with blood? Blood trippling

(36:43):
blood, nigga brea and nigga.He had a middle nagger and you were
laughing like a mocause you do thegame. You're laughing like mom. He
say something, Ye say something andthen little taking break right there, man,
keep sho heres man, so we'llbe right back. We got worth

(37:12):
thin, we got west Side worth, we got hoodies like that were worth
sill. Work for sale, wegot work for seal. We got merch
for sale. We're at dub Cand CJMC dot com. Get it,
get it be boys, shit,you got a bit hit. Welcome back

(37:34):
to the Dove see c J macshow will forget y'all. I am duve
c am c J Mack and weare still with game too short showed up,
shout yeah, I said it shutdown. Shout by something. Show
dogs only one dog that shout.Hey. Look, so I want to
talk about you know how you reinventedyourself. Man, you are forty over

(37:59):
both y'all. Infun it yourself,which is I mean a lot of us
can't do that, you know,a lot of them blessed to be in
the game for a long time.But the wedded y'all did it though,
dude, a guy named Little Johnwhen you came out, you know,
and did blow blow the whistle.And I was at the radio station and
I heard the beat. I didn'tknow before you start rapping. I go,

(38:19):
oh no, no, it wasjust thumped um got They were just
cutting it up and I was like, damn, what what's going on the
listen? I got to listen toit, and then I know, and
I was like, looked at theDJ's it was. I was at uh
at the beat at the time,you know, when it was over there
for arm in Hollywood and U notyucker, not the old not the old

(38:43):
old beat with THEO. It waswhen you came out with that record and
I was tripping and it was allin the yngsters was in there was like,
yeah, dog show got it,he got it, he got it.
And I said, damn, Islol is this and I don't know
what's produced by Little John. Whatkilled me, dude, was how a
lot of people don't realize you justdidn't reinvent yourself. But also too,

(39:04):
you took part in shutting that lighton a Little John as well. What
was that connection right there? Howdid that come about a Little John was
real active in Atlanta DJ and heworked for So So Dead. He was
doing his thing and he started droppingsongs Atlanta at the time. I lived
in Atlanta, and I just tooka liking and Little John without him knowing,

(39:27):
because I watched him DJ and hewas a kind of DJ I always
I watched the party. I know, I see what mixed the party move.
And he was a DJ who wouldget on the mic and at the
most strategic moment throughout the night,he would make the crowd participate with him.
And he had a skill like alot of DJ is a say shit,
pull him, pull it back up, whatever. But he had the
crowd working with him right. Andthen he had assault who you would get

(39:51):
who you with And I was like, I'm gonna go hell at this Nick
I don't even know. I waslike, bro, you need to let
me put a rap on there.He had. He had a beat that
was it was hot record, hewas banging in the clubs, no rapper,
no verse, it was just chance. I like, you need to
let me rap on that. Hewas like, nah, man, He's
like, we should just do anew song. And he came by my
studio one day when I wasn't thereand got in there and was doing some

(40:15):
shit, he left his song.Couldn't be a better player, right,
he put. He put all kindof shit on that motherfuck it was.
It was hooks and chance and allkind of shit. And I just went
in there. I put three sixteenbar verses. The song was playing like
seven minutes long, and I justlike, you know, from that point
on, the song got hot.Right, So then we made a B

(40:37):
a B. But there's a there'san earlier version of being bitch, just
a BH. You ain't nothing buta BSh was wanted the B side of
one of his songs, and Ilike them girls was on the B side,
and he called me one day hesaid, Man, the B side
is like, you know, likeyou put a single out right, He
said, Man, the B sideis moving like the A side was a

(40:59):
single to a video everything. He'slike the B side this movie. We
gotta figure out a way to doa clean version. How you do a
clean version? You're just a bunkas big ain't nothing, but as it
was about niggas, it wasn't aboutfemales. It was like nigga, you
ain't nothing. But as he cameup with that BA bill and cleaned it
up and put ludicrous on it andit was out of there. So at

(41:22):
some point Little John was caught upin a dispute, a contract dispute with
you know, a mutual friend,and it wasn't really a big deal,
but he was just in a positionwhere he couldn't wiggle out of it.
They was, they was at oddsone, you know, getting along and
ship and it was just like,you know, you get to that fucking
point where she gets stuck. AndI just got in there and and handled

(41:42):
a little financial in which wasn't alot, and talked to the dude,
got him out the contract, andthen I told him, you know,
I'm not doing this to sign you. I'm doing this. You know,
I'm really looking at the nigga likethis ud got beats. I'm like,
I want to be digg. SoI was just like, bro, do
what you gotta do, whatever yougotta do. I just just keep me
on the beat list. I wantto be there. And he probably laid

(42:06):
that shit in the Little John likehe gotta deal with TVT and yea sword.
So that later, many years later, like we first hooked up,
I probably was, you know,I probably was like thirty thirty one flashed
like ten years later, I'm fortyyears old. This nigga slide me shake
that monkey, blow the whistle.I'm og to give me young nigga.

(42:28):
Nigga. I'm like, yeah,I'm in, I'm on the radio,
I'm in the club. I'm popping. So I went from a trunk nigga
just making songs for the Trump tothe Little John conversion you didn't want to
be on the radio, to nownow I'm in the club. Nigga put
me in the club, and I'mlike, so now I'm the og with
the club song. It don't reallyit don't really outdate me, you know.

(42:49):
So I didn't really like Expire.Yeah, I got that whole second
win. And then you know,forty come in in the cut with the
hi feed. Ye forty two yearsjogger than men, shaking his dread like
you're twenty two. Yeah, andit start a whole new career. You
know what's crazy about that song,blow the Whistle, bro It seemed like
you had two lives. I rememberit. I'm going to stopped and started

(43:13):
nine times. Yeah, man,she like it came out and it blew
and it calmed down, blow upagain, calmed down, the blow up
again. Probably from New Orleans,she said, because I'm sitting there with
this motherfucker trying to tell me thatblow the whistle just came out. That's
what I'm telling you. I likesomething seven years old. I try to
tell us, Mad, she overthere, Mad, Yeah, he said,

(43:34):
no, it's just a new songjust came out. I've never seen
it like this song. Man.But that record right there, it's not
just a record. And I getplayed in the clubs like you played in
at the bigger sports events, allkinds of stuff whatever because of getting that's
a hard record. Man, Yeahyou don't. You don't really get your
signature song at the age of fortyon your fucking but but but but but

(43:55):
but calms and mother, you know, your blessings do come back to you
when you look out for somebody.You look out for that dude the wall
back and he never forgot that shoutout the little John, you know.
So we need to get you onthe show. A little job, but
right there, and I mean,you know the way I look at it,
man, a big picture, becauseyou know, if it wasn't for

(44:15):
me walking down the street my boombox listening to the message. I wouldn't
have been able to inspire anybody.I wouldn't have got inspired to be able
to inspire somebody else. You know, I'll be I'll be that song my
favorite song. When you give aguy like Little Job a stepping stone in
the game, and then you seewhat he turned around and does he fucking
rain hits on? I mean,we don't get that step. Do we

(44:38):
not get all those hits that hemade? Like you know what I'm saying?
What is? What is? Whatis his journey? If he don't
get that that slide and you knowthat that slide in the home base with
you know, with the O GShort Dog. I was platinum Nigga.
I was on like my fifth sixplatinum when I hooked up with Little John
and I took the nigga on twowith me. I know that, like
I took him on his first tour, big sold out crowds. He only

(45:01):
had probably like a fifteen minute littlething he could do instead of like open
up for me when I put youon early in the show, I put
the nigga on with me. Iprobably I wouldn't have headliner. I probably
would like the second to the last. I'll do my whole show. And
then because we down saw bunts ofthe shows was down South Midwest, I

(45:21):
do my whole show. And thenwe started doing it. Couldn't be a
better player of b and being oneof them. So and I just I'm
doing this shit the crowdboy crazy.I don't did it forty five minutes.
Now I'm doing this and I justease off the stage and I don't just
like I think I think it wason tour with cash money. We wasn't
playing fair, like we wasn't playingfair. We was really like like you

(45:44):
know, like like you do ashow with Ice Cu Snoop forty, you
know, Nigga, But I'll becareful going on after Nigga's like us gotta
be careful. Ye bring your missa lot. I ain't just saying niggas
real quick. The young days whenwe all had the little regional a little

(46:07):
you know, a little differences oflike swagging not really hella speaking to each
other, you know whatever. I'mreally good friends and Eric something. I'm
like, Nigga, I just wishedto walk past each other. Nigga don't
even look at each other though.Yeah, many shows just thinking whatever Nigga.
I used to be like, Um, I'll go look at the list

(46:28):
of my motivation. Look at theit's three niggas going after me. Now
I'm hot. I'm like Nigga.I three platinumutains is good and these niggas
Listenigga got one, he ain't gotnone. They're going on after me.
All right, that's all you'll wantto do it like some people are gonna
complain and be like, I'm biggerthan so and so. You know,
I mean, I'm like, Nigga, put me on the watch. I'm

(46:50):
gonna put me on. Half thefucking crowd gonna leave after I go off,
or gonna be like folded Nigga.It wasn't that happening after I'm telling
you, brother, don't do that. Ain't no man, you know,
speaking speaking of uh going down southand in other places. I got a
chance to see you get down outof town, and I was that feeling,

(47:14):
man, to know that you gettingslapped on it. You know,
you've got slaps on the works ofworse coat. You're getting loved from here.
But to go out there and theNew York out of all places,
dude, to see New York showyou love they fuck with you tough one.
It was a slow It was aslow, a slow progression. But
yeah, but I got there.Man. I I give a lot of
credit to guys like Eric Sherman foryou know, convincing me to do,

(47:37):
you know, to to get outthere. And he really convinced. I
was like, man, they don'tdon't fuck me. He's like, bro,
the fuck with you out of here, like the funk out of here.
Eric took me to a show.It was him, It was the
the what they called the crew himkeepths murraying Red Man. That's and he
brought me out as a special gueston one of the shows and the fucking

(48:00):
crowd was crazy. That's my firsttime getting a reaction like that in New
York. I'm talking way later inthe game. This is this is probably
like, you know, the themid nineties or something like ninety, when
you came up, when you cameup with the record, Uh you don't
want getting a good album and onthat yeah, knocked up, motherfucking my
Eddie Bauer. He really like turnedme on New York. He was like,

(48:21):
bro, you're tripping And I wouldn'thung out with Keith Murray, wild
ass took me on the streets.I didn't even know that the love was
growing out there because in the earlydays they was like the fuck out.
But yeah, but jay zs Iknow, I don't think nobody got collapsed
like the New York nigga wish hecould do like exactly not talking shit,

(48:43):
but I'm on like a couple ofjay Z albums, maybe two or three,
two Biggie albums, but they wouldn'twant to. They wouldn't want to
get down with you if they wasn'tfans of your music. Yeah, you
know, but it wasn't. Itwasn't just I didn't really didn't know at
first, man, I really didn'tknow. I used to spend a lot
of time in New York and gotand didn't get no love. And when

(49:07):
it finally started, I was doingI did the song a little with Little
Kim called me. You know,I was on the Death Squad album like
little shit just started happening. ThenI'm on jay Z. It was all
good. Just a week ago.They like album I was gonna real niggas
do real thing like Z and justyou know, Biggie's second album, like

(49:29):
Big called me, Yeah, Puffycalled me. Your relationship with Big Big
was cool many Um we met atthe Outcast picnic before he really blew up.
Outcasts to a picnic every year inAtlanta, and we just chopped it
up. He hit me with theone line. He was like, Yo,
yo, kids, you gotta lovein Brooklyn. And I was like,
look at that. You know heand shake look at that. And
then a year ago by he's supernotorious Big. He's like, remember that,

(49:52):
motherfucker told you got it. He'slike that was me. And then
we smoked and due to pow wow, and he told me, you know
they told him and Jay told methat it was some niggas in Brooklyn,
Like when when you thought niggas wasn'tworking with your New York, it was
some niggas in Brooklyn that was workingwith you the whole time, the whole
time. So he was like,it's a thing out there in a little
some little pockets somewhere, niggas wasgetting it. And you listen to Um,

(50:15):
you listened to like comes from likeherb gotty kind of way. According
to like people like Eric Sermon,motherfuckers was really in tune. To artists
like Too Short, scar Face Tupac, and they was evolving to be niggas
like Dmax, Rude jay Z.It was like, Nigga be you,

(50:37):
but listen to what the niggas isdoing. And you know, Big jay
Z. The niggas wasn't like tryingto wrap like nobody or bike. But
they was like they were spitting gamebecause we were spitting games and it was
you was saying something about the secondwin and later on, I think you
can reinvent yourself easily, uh througha hot producer or or some beats that

(50:59):
sound good right now as a gamespinner, if you're spending game the game,
don't it don't expire. I knowI can't. I can't really go
in on all that like a uma song about a certain subject that I'm
not age appropriate to. I'm alwaysaged appropriate to the game right right right?
Helloa jewel Man. That's even goingdown south, getting down you said

(51:23):
with cash money, you know,and getting down south because the south that
they do on Thurn in the beginning. Yeah, they got their own thing
now, but in the beginning,No, nigga wedn't have been out on
the road before show Down southing andthey just looked, you know, so
they want boom nigger, but theyhad their own thing going on. So
Jo, you know, I feelyou on that, you know what you're

(51:44):
doing your thing. But it wasgood though, because even with Eric Summer
giving you a shot and bringing youout and you're getting to love you know,
it was the same thing where youturned around and you gave it back
to little John. And I'm justhappy to see where you at with it
right now. I thank you foryou know, for the years of work.
I mean, just to me,it's it's something that a lot of

(52:07):
us, I mean, you stillhaven't even win depth to a lot of
the people that you didn't touch,a lot of the people that get in
the fluence. And I can evenremember back to during the pandemic, a
monumental moment when you and Forty goton there versus A lot of people thought
that Forty was just gonna come onthere just where you out because he was

(52:28):
yeah you heard that. I'm becauseof the short term memory of the second
win. A dude, Hey,I don't know what part of the battle
was when you I'm gonna say battleor the celebration, because you know,
your family. But when you leftand put on that age jacket, that

(52:52):
was yeah, you know, spadingover and we was having a good time.
We was literally drinking in real time. The ship was live and it
was the first verses that wasn't abattle. Every verses before that was a
battle. We SNOOP and GMx wasn'ta battle. No, it was kind

(53:12):
of cool. They're seeing each otherlyrics and we kind of took a little
page from that and turn it intoa full hour. Let's just celebrate and
man, if you go back andlook at this ship. Man, I'm
really trying so hard, like I'mtrying to keep us on track to do
the verses. This nigga earl isin full comedian mode and I'm like tears

(53:35):
nigga, Like I'm leaving. I'llkeep leaving off camera because I'm crying because
this nigga got me laughing. Soare like like I'm trying to like put
on a good little back and forth. I can't hold my posture because it
me keep making me laugh. Likehe was in rear form that day.
But it was hell of fun.We went to full They said you can't
go more than three hours, andthree hours we still had a lot of
songs that we sat there. Wewas we was like, I don't know

(54:00):
if you can see the hands justwe like it was like, fucking,
man, keep going, I'm suredog. Thank you for coming through.
Oh yeah, man, I appreciateyou. Man. We love you to
death. Man, thank you forthe music. And you know I'm a
partner c J. My brother cJack. He always in the triches over
there. I've been out there quitea bit, you know, saying fucking
with y'all, but he stay outthere many they always and y'all they aren't

(54:22):
treating me like family, bro dude. That's they took me in and treated
me my family. You know.You know what I'm saying, thank you,
man for always being my friend,man, always coming through for anything
I ever asked you. Man,damn the show ship, everything I've ever.
He just don't get family in Oakland. His family is my direct family
like that. That's just the samefan, right, you know what I'm

(54:43):
saying, So thank you man,and uh boo yeah man books because man,
I miss not bid him go downthere and see him man, Jock
Jack Man, it so me,dude, start naming people all the way
back to the King T and wedidn't even know each other. Yea,
when it was like it was astaying in shady motails and shit, you

(55:13):
already know the potential friction turning tolate friendship. Yeah, friction in the
friendship. All right, man,Well, thank you opportuning in to another
power pact episode of The Dumb Show. I am c J. Matt and
I am Dumb, and we've beenhere with shod bitch legend, my favorite

(55:35):
word, legend,