Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Dusty Muffins, where menopause meets sisterhood and strength.
We're three menopause specialists coming together to laugh, share, and
empower you through the wild ride of menopause imperimenopause. Whether
you're curious, confused, or just looking for real talk, you're
in the right place. We're here to answer your burning questions, educate,
and applicate all with a dash of humor and a
(00:26):
lot of heart. So pull up a chair and join
the conversation. Before we dive in, Please remember, while we're doctors,
we're not your doctors. This podcast is for educational purposes
only and is not a substitute for medical advice. We
encourage you to partner with your own medical plymission to
address your unique health needs.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
This is the Dusty Muffins.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Welcome to the Dusty Muffins where today we're going to
delve into the art of mindful living. And today we're
joined by doctor Amanda Salcrin Romano, a clinical psychologist and
founder a Peace of Mind Illness LLC. Right here with
me in Northern Virginia. She has over twelve years of
experience and doctor Saukrin Romano specializes in integrating mindfulness into therapy,
(01:12):
helping individuals navigate life's challenges with clarity and compassion. Let's
explore the transformative power of mindfulness together.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I am a doctor Rocca Hurdle. I'm a Board certified
osteopathic family medicine physician and a Menopause Society certified practitioner.
I have a private telemedicine practice and I see patients
in several different states.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I am doctor Ifa O'Sullivan, a Board certified family physician
and Menopause Society certified practitioner, and I see patients through
my telemedicine practice here in Oregon and Washington.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'm doctor Christine Harcrass, a Board certified Women's Health Nurse
practitioner and Menopause Certified practitioner, and I see patients via
telemedicine in several states as well.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Welcome my friend, and.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Hello hello, thanks for thanks for dealing with some of
our technical stuff that sometimes just happens.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
You know, we just keep going on, right, Yeah, that's
what we all need there, sure, at least at the
very least for that right to keep us from like
losing our minds.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Is we can feel it like start to boil up
the anxiety that like, but that's together. It's kind of
like real life though, right, like nothing, I mean, this
is this is real life. This is what happened. This
is what like our our follow erpers go through, we
go through, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So it's all right, it's a perfect segue into mindfulness. Yeah,
so tell us have you always been interested in mindfulness?
Why don't you tell us what the background is about
the name of your practice.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I love that. Yeah, so clinical psychologists who did therapy
interestingly had no had never meditated in my life anything
before grad school. So I had done my whole undergrad,
did some research and undergrad about postprum depression. And when
you go to grad school you have to pick your mentor.
(03:18):
I picked my mentor was heading in that direction. My
dissertationist was on post arm depression. But while I was there,
started to learn more and more about anxiety and stress management,
and just happens kinds of to find us ended up
having the amazing opportunity to have two mentors. And my
other mentor was she did all mindfulness and she had
we had this moment where she's like, it seems like
(03:39):
this of an interest to you, and you really can't
teach this unless you practice, and so they she encouraged
me to attend an eight week mindfulness based stress reduction course,
which is kind of in the medical world. They use
it a lot with chronic illness. And that's where it
all began. So when I set across from somebody and
they say, it's really hard to just sit there by yourself, yes,
(04:02):
it is, like no one's just it. It's a skill.
It takes a lot of practice. And so I started there.
And when you start to go through that training, then
they kind of encourage you to have that daily practice.
And then got to my postdoc and I my supervisor
there was like, you've never done a silent meditation retreat
and I was like, no, it's that about and did
(04:23):
you do it? I did so nine days. I went
nine days. You don't speak for nine days, you actually
wake up and.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You could not be able to do it.
Speaker 6 (04:35):
I mean to be like, take me home.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That would be.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I would be like, yes, I don't think you would
beat I don't mind not talking. I'm seriously all morning long,
I'll go or all morning getting ready and my husband's dying.
Countinue and Christina a very much alike he's just like
and I'm like moments of silence.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, you went nine days without speaking.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Nine days, so you wake up and you do mindful eating,
and then you do this like forty five minutes of
walking meditation and forty five minutes of sitting and walking sitting,
have lunch, and in the evenings you would have a talk.
It would be the teacher talking to you and if
if you had a question, you could. But most of
us know when the entire time without speaking. Soone when
(05:26):
I got I saw I'm a pretty talkative person and
it was even to speak. Then once I got picked up,
it was strange, Like first of all, I'm a pretty
fast talker. It was I was talking so slowly. My
voice actually sounded a little bit different because I mean
I talked back to back clients, like our voices get strained, right,
Like to go that long without like it was it
(05:46):
was interesting. My voice was had a hard time there
going back to my work and being able to talk
that many days. So I promise all my clients you
can go the whole time and never do a nine
days on a meditation retreat like that is not Oh can.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
You for for our listeners? And maybe for people that
don't understand what mindfulness is and can you go through
that like for us kind of just like just like
those definitions of you know what, what is that? And
then we can kind of go, you know, how is
it used? And you know, just some of these you know,
terms that are becoming more conventional, but for a lot
that don't understand, Oh.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That's such a great question because whenever you say mindless,
everybody could be meaning something different. So, as I mentioned too,
I had gone to an mindfulness based stress reduction or
MVSR course is by John Cabosen, so I have to
use his definition of mindfulness and so it's the non
judgmental awareness in the present moment. So we're doing two
(06:41):
things there. We're allowing ourselves to our minds. If you
just let them go wherever they want. They either tend
to want to speed ahead or focus on things that have
already happened. And if I could, this is a really
quick summary, but when we're always focusing on future things,
we tend to get a lot of stress and anxiety.
When we keep revisiting past events, we get little bit
more of that sadness and depression. And so this idea
(07:03):
of being in the moment. I'll explain it for someone
who's like, have you ever gone on a run, or
you're a painter, or you're cooking, you know, when you're
just like literally just in it, right, Like, that's that
present moment awareness. Now the judgmental non judgmental stance. It
takes a little bit more work to help someone understand
what that means. But many times when you're in the moment,
(07:23):
we want it to be different than what it is.
So you'll be even chatting with a lovely group of
people and you might think it'd be better if I
had coffee, or if it'd be better if my camera
was working, or like, our minds love to play this
game of like, but it could be better, and like
really just wanting things to be different than what they are.
So it's not only helping someone to be in the moment,
but to be accepting of whatever's there. Because when you meditate,
(07:45):
you can meditate, if you meditate consistently, you're going to
feel anxious at times and you're going to feel sad
at times. And so people have this misunderstanding that you
said in your calm one hundred percent of the time,
and so when I say to them, that's actually not
the experience that we have. One of the main things
we get from therapy and mindfulness is distress tolerance, is
to know that there's a lot of things in life
(08:06):
that are uncomfortable and how do we actually breathe and
sit through that. I got to hit you guys with
one more of that, but I just love it's really interesting.
So every emotion we have has a physical aspect. If
you can sit with an emotion, it will come peak
and fall within about ninety seconds. So why do we
can we go the.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Whole day for I don't know.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Not.
Speaker 6 (08:26):
My emotions.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Are thoughts, Like we feel that moment of like worry
or anxiety and we want to go away, right, So
like just stop thinking about that. Stop And the more
that you tell yourself not to have an emotion or experience,
the more you get of it. So there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So it's kind of like when you're sitting with all
of us, you know, or if we're in a conversation,
really trying to keep your head in the moment of
those conversations with you know, your friends or your patients
instead of letting your brain go. Boy, I have like
I have to go get this done today. I can't
forget to do this, and can't forget to do this
or type of thing, like really experience the actual experience.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yes, whenever, I would target like a lot of mindfulness groups,
and so one of the exercises we would do is
we would have you partner up with somebody and for
two minutes straight you had to sit there and listen
to a person without interjecting, and you just had the
fully one person was the listener and one persons the speaker,
and then you would switch. And it's an interesting experience
because you realize you just want to connect with the person.
(09:26):
So what happens is they start to tell you about
their job, and then you have this natural inclination to
want to jump in, and then you start talking about
your job, and then all of a sudden, the conversation
will take this left turn. So it's this really cool
experience of like, what does it feel like to want
to jump in? And you just don't, and you let
them talk longer, and you learn so much more about
a person when you give them that space. So that's mindfulness.
(09:49):
I really can help us understand ourselves and others a
lot better.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And I think that, you know, like when you explain
it as a clinician, like, I totally, I totally get it.
Because that's one of the things I really have tried
to do as I've become more seasoned, is to listen
more with my patients and talk less. But at two
o'clock in the morning, when I have heart palpitations and
I'm awake, I don't really like sitting in that. So
(10:15):
are you telling me that I just need to sit
in it?
Speaker 6 (10:18):
And like, what ninety second?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well two hours later, I've gone beyond the ninety second,
So how do I get myself to go back to sleep?
I hate that?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Oh, this is a great question because sleep is such
a big thing, right, like especially for women for you know.
So that's why like learning certain techniques, breathing, different practices.
So I will sometimes give people a recorded guided meditation.
I will teach them different difrmetic breathing, something they can
do in those moments. So we don't just say good
(10:51):
luck and try to sit through it, right, we give
you some tolls to know how to ride that wave,
how to ride that ninety second wave. Right, So think
of a surfer, right, and think of it. And most
people that are serving, they have a skill set to
get them through that wave. So that's one of the
benefits of working with someone trained in these techniques. We're
going to give you a skill set to get through
those moments so that it does it is more of
(11:12):
a couple minutes at most, definitely not ours.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's really awesome. I you know, so I have a
couple I have one question that I thought was kind
of interesting. You know, we think about therapy when you know,
we're actively going through something, we're in a crisis. But
you know, it's not always just about healing some type
of pain, right, What about just some like non crisis
reasons that women may come to therapy, either preventatively or
(11:41):
just as part of their maybe mindfulness or part of
you know, being kind of a whole person.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, this is my favorite thing to talk about is
helping to kind of have a different understanding of therapy.
And I was sharing that I like to listen to
this podcast episodes before I join a podcast. And one
of the things that where I think you guys could
really understand this is you guys were talking a lot
about this. You were saying that a lot of women
will come to you and are like, well, I wasn't
(12:10):
having hot flashes, so that's why I didn't think to
kind of seek out and do some of these treatments
or these are better, but I still, you know, I'm
having this, this and this, and you know, like the
hot flashes are better, but I'm not sleeping, i have
brain fog, I'm having joint pain, and you guys are
all like, you know, we can do things for those
as well. And I think that's kind of where therapy
has been is that a lot of people think of
(12:31):
if I had a childhood trauma, if I had these
significant life events. And one of my favorite parts of
I was at an integrative center, so I was in
a primary care office and so I got to see
a lot of people who would never even consider therapy.
So how did they end up in my office is
that I was down the hall, so their primary care
would be, like, you are having sleep issues. Have you
(12:52):
ever talked to someone about that? You are having ibs right,
like you're having a lot of stomach issues, dies of concerns.
You're so well. Whenever I talk to someone about the
nervous system, if we think about you know, fight fight freeze.
Everybody knows that part of the nervous system, but no
one knows rest, digest, restore, It's called rest and digest.
(13:13):
If I can, I can literally help you with those
techniques that Christine was kind of talking about that we
could use at two am in the morning, right, those techniques,
If you use those consistently throughout the day, you're in
your para sympathetic nervous system more. If I can help
you to be in that space much more than your
fight or flight. You digest your food better, you sleep better,
your stress levels are lower, or which means your cortisol levels.
(13:36):
Like it's it's a whole. When I talk about mind body,
like that mind body connection, I genuinely mean it because
I just cannot separate it, like that idea of how
our thoughts physically impact us and how our physical health
impacts our thoughts, and just helping to understand that. So
I always say that if you are a human being
walking this earth, there is something I can probably teach
(13:58):
you to help you to just walk it a little
bit right. And it breaks my heart sometimes because I
work with a lot of new moms and they'll say
these things to me, like I have an easy baby.
Why I feel so guilty for talking to you right, like,
this would be the happiest time of my life. I
have an easy baby want and I'm like, you're raising
another human being, right or even how much you guys
(14:18):
more than anybody know. This career changes relationship concerns. Right
when we get to that peri menopause, menopause, there's a
lot that we can do. So I like to engage
in something called acceptance and Commitment therapy, and it's a
lot about like what do you actually want your life
to look like, which we refer to as values, what
is actually happening and what it's that discrepancy and so
(14:40):
this really intentional, like what are our days looking like?
Most of us get up, we go to work, we
do you know, and it's it's really to bring in
a lot of intention to how we spend our day
and the things we choose to do throughout the day.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Amanda, when you talk about the rest and digest, do
you use any of those vagus nerve activation techniques or
wearables or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, So I just love everything about the biggest nerve
calming the body down. And so it's really cool, like
even in terms of when we were at the center
and now still encourage. I have no affiliation with heart math.
I have nothing or muse or but there's some really
helpful things out there, the same reason many of us
wear Apple watches, right, Sometimes it's nice to get some
(15:24):
data about what's going on. So, for example, if anyone's
not familiar, there's something called heart math, a little sensor.
You put it on your ear and in real time,
I'd have someone say, talk to me about a worry
that you have, and you get to see in real
time what that does to our heart rates or our respiration.
And then I'd say to them, you know that four
seven eight breathing we just did. Let's do it together, right,
(15:45):
and in real time you see it instantly how to
impact your body. And I'll say, could you imagine if
you lived in this twenty four to seven?
Speaker 7 (15:52):
And then you're like, is my.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Stomach always upset? I think we know, right, So it's
really cool. There's a whole bunch of different The mus
does more of like looking at brainways, but there's a
lot of cool things out there to help you to
understand how to activate the vegas nerve, how to calm
our nervous system.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I have a thing called the Apollo neuro which I
saw on a Facebook group years ago. I was learning
about doctor Stephen Porge's He had come up with this
music to activate the vegas nerve for kids who had
autism and who had kind of disconnected socially, and he
(16:30):
removed some of the frequencies from the music and the
kids would listen to the music and come back online.
And someone had developed this wearable. And this is not
a sponsored post, but I thought, you know what, I'm
going to give it a go just to see what
it feels like, and then I can tell my patience
about it. Why haven't taken it off? And that was
(16:50):
probably five years ago. It just comes on and it vibrates,
and it's supposed to activate your vegas nerve by doing that.
And I know there's a few different wearables that which
are so helpful for people too. I feel like it
brings you back into the moment. You feel that little
vibration on your wrist or you can wear it on
your chest or ankle anywhere really.
Speaker 6 (17:11):
And it's lovely. It's like a little hit a dopamine
or something every time it comes on the way.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I love what you said about there too, is that
you tried it yourself. I'm a really big advocate of
that as well. And one of the reasons I was
really drawn to mindfulness is this idea of like we're
all human beings. I'm not going to sit across the
room and act like I don't get stressed out. But
I don't know. I think it's hard to meditate at times.
And so to have these mentors in my life that
were like just that honest of like life is hard.
(17:38):
Can we life better together? And so even being at
the Integrative Center is awesome because I got a chance
to try acupuncture, reiki, working with the naturopathic, like just
all of these different things, and it was a really
cool so I can say because sometimes there's recommendations given
out right, like something it sounds simple like don't eat gluten.
(17:59):
I really try to cut gluten out of your diet,
like it impacts your socialis what you have to look
at like this really awesome experience of like I had
to do it for two weeks and I was like,
this is hard. Like so just to have these different
experience and like I said, even when someone says to me,
like what is your actual experience of meditating. I am
so honest with my clients, like, this is what I
(18:20):
struggle with, this is how I've worked through it, this
is what could be helpful. And again, it's what I
loved about listening to some of the episodes you guys,
is you guys honestly talking about this journey for yourselves, right,
And I think there's a huge just like connection point
there of saying, like I always say my clients, like
I am the expert in some techniques, but you genuinely
are the expert of your life. So if I tell
(18:41):
you to do something and you come back and you're
like that was awful, I believe you, and I'll say,
let's try something else for that system. Er, let's talk
through this in a different way then.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
And a lot of what we do in our practice
is starting women who are going through the menopause transition
on hormones. Do you have have you seen patients where
you're working with them, work with them and then they
go off and they start on hormones and you see
changes in them then one hunt or percent.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So that's all Like, I love the collaboration with different
and I know we haven't we're just starting to get
to each Other by Christine and Rebecca. I have you guys.
I'm always hounding them like someone's coming your way, like because.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
Oh we thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, yes, because so I have stressed anxiety management. So
some will come to my office and they'll say, like,
I'm having heart palpitations. They think I'm having panic attacks
and we've done a heart work up or we're doing
these different things and I just don't feel like myself
and like I'm just forgetting a lot. And randomly I
had cold shoulder and I'm like, oh, ho tiu. So
(19:44):
you're telling me you have cold, short of brain fog,
not sleep, and well your heart's going. You should really
chat with my friends, like you know, because then I'll
say to them, I know enough when it needs to
be assessed. That's not my area. So that's why I
love knowing you lovely ladies, because I'll say, like, you
just need the answer, and then I will you guys
will sign a release and I will be able to
(20:05):
talk directly with them and I can fill them in
on where you're at with your anxiety and some things
I'm noticing. And it's such a cool experience to actually
see them say, you know what I am worth this,
and I am going to like collaborate with one of
your colleagues and they come back and like, I feel
like myself again. And so as much as I know
how helpful it is to talk, I do believe that
(20:26):
there is true that physical mind body connection. Right, so
I'll say to them, like, let's not swim upstream. We
can talk to or blue in the face. But like
I can do so much for like your corsol levels
and your hormones, but like sometimes we need hormones, right,
Like you need to introduce into your body to actually
get it regulated. And if we can get you so
(20:47):
far with my work, so far with my colleagues, where
can you imagine what we could do with all of this together.
It's a really cool experience.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I know, but it's getting it's getting women to realize,
I think a little bit, you know, that they are
worth that investment. And then when they even get in
with us, you know, it's like menopausal hormone therapy isn't
going to do everything for you without the things that
you're talking about, mindfulness or exercise, nutrition, I mean, and
(21:17):
then you know, getting women to like just to stop
and prioritize themselves in this period of time, I find
it's just really really challenging and the amount of things
that they just tolerate instead of trying to address.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
I mean, are you seeing.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
That or what you know? What do you tell women
about prioritizing themselves and not tolerating being gas lit or
feeling like garbage?
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I see that so much. So every time I see
like a commercial about like self care and it's like
a bubble bath or that occasional massage like that is
not self care. That is not self care, is actually
meaning like we're taking care of ourselves. And that's why, like,
so the idea is so wi is there so much
talk about strength training, right? Is because for someone that
(22:08):
it's so empowering, Right, I love the idea of just
empowering people that I work with, and it is empowering
to try something you haven't done before. And a lot
of people are just intimidated by strength training, right. A
lot of people are intimidated by mindfulness techniques or talking
with a therapist. It's just something they haven't done before.
And so it's that idea of like am I going
to make time for this or not? And so I
(22:29):
will say to someone like even just just give us
a shot, right, So, like that's why I try to
do a lot of talks like this, just to even give
someone a taste of like what it might be like
to talk with someone. And then many times when I
meet with someone, I'll say, listen, there's some people I
meet for a handful of sessions, and there's some people
I meet with for years, right, Like I'll just depend
on what you're looking for. And and so I think
(22:51):
it's really you guys probably have to experience this as well.
So we live in this world of the medical care
being a sick model. Right. So even when I was
at the primary care office that are sick visits were
always cool. And then we would do well inness workshops
and it would be like crickets and we're like this
is so wrong, right, Like we need to help them
to understand. And so I'll share with someone. One of
(23:12):
my favorite meditations is it's this like metaphor of using
a tree, and it will talk about like when someone
comes to me and they're really anxious or stressed out,
or it's kind of like if you were to see
a tree during a storm and the branches and the
leaves are everywhere, and you think that tree is going
to break. There's no way that tree is going to
make it. And then this meditation it helps you to
realize you have the trunk and you have the roots,
(23:32):
and that's what helps you to get through those storms.
That's how I think about what we're doing when I
talk about lifestyle change. So when someone is talking with someone, meditating, consistently,
working out, getting sleep, you're getting those roots nice and strong. Right.
So if we have that tree and we're taking care
of it, then when that storm comes through, you're still
going to move, you know, like talking to me is
(23:53):
not going to prevent menopause. Not that good? Right? Really,
I did get your can't you will it?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Isn't that what cognitive behavioral therapy is?
Speaker 6 (24:03):
You just will it?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Will it away? Just yeah, it's magical, right, But I
can't help it to have those stronger roots through lifestyle
changes that that storm you just don't you don't feel
like the twig in the storm. You feel like you
can weather it a bit more. And I think helping
someone to understand that, like why would you ever wait
till you're sick? Right? So then that's where we try
to encourage people to do those at least once a
(24:25):
year wellness preventative visits. And I love the world that
we live in that that could be for psychology as well.
So when someone says, you know, that's awful that you've
seen a psychologist forever, you must be so sick or
I have all I adore my clients all extremely high functioning,
and I like to think they are high functioning because
they have worked with me throughout all of this time.
(24:46):
Sometimes I see them once a month, then life happens
and I'll see them once a week, and then I
won't see them for six months, and then I won't.
They just know them there, right, and they know enough.
I always tell them, please come to me when they're smoke.
Don't wait for the huge We will put out the
fire if you come to me with that. But the
smoke is so much easier, so like, just remember me,
(25:07):
you know. So I would say that it's something I
see a lot of fires at first, and then when
someone starts to work with me, I've noticed so many
of my clients are getting so good at identifying when
it's smoke and coming in more of that preventative fashion.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I never would have thought about that until you said it.
Speaker 6 (25:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I had a patient a few years ago, a man,
and he I could tell from everything he just had
so many anger issues. And he was a really nice guy,
but he just would flip the lid, you know, really quickly,
and just didn't know how to deal with it at all.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
And I brought up.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Very gingerly the topic of seeing a therapist and he
was absolutely horrified. He said, I'm not a rapist or something.
And I was like, wait a second, what.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
Do you think those are? The people who see therapists
are like rapists? Do not therapist? Trust me the problem?
Speaker 4 (26:03):
So we had a whole conversation about who has therapy,
and I said to him, I think every human should
have therapy, even for six months or a year.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I said, you learn an awful lot about yourself. You
learn coping skills and techniques.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
And he left and he was not very happy with me,
and I didn't see him for about nine months and
he came back and we just had a regular visit.
I think it was like maybe blood pressure or something
like that. And at the end he said, I took
your advice. And it had actually been so long since
I've seen him, I didn't know what he was talking about,
and I said, what do you mean. He said, I
(26:40):
went and found a therapist, and I feel great. I've
been working on myself and I want to thank you
for suggesting it.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
I was just blown away. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
It's I really do feel like every human it no
one should have therapy.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
It's so important.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I did that quick when when my ex husband and
our three older children, when we had decided that, you know,
we were going to co parent, and we.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Took the kids to therapy.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
First. Everything was great, We co parented wonderfully, but we
were just like, we need to make sure that everything
is good and if they have something they need to
talk about that we can't. So yeah, there was We
didn't wait until there was any you know, trauma or
outwardly anyway that we could see. And it was such
a and I remember my kids now they're all adults now,
(27:32):
just you know that thinking, and I think that we
just really transitioned.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
That's so great.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And even my current husband now we did therapy on
how to blend our family together, and so you know,
it's just been just.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Head things off of the past, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, right, so you have that established relationship already with
somebody and then something happens, like it's it's hard enough
to be going through that, let alone finding a therapist
at that time, Like that's even a lot to take on,
you know. So two thoughts I had. I just want
to true rewind because I don't forget to share. I
think that's one of the things I loved about being
in the primary care office because they would pull me
(28:12):
into like they would literally call my office and I
would walk in and I would just first of all,
I'm not I'm not a terribly scary person, so I
think that kind of took off the edge to start with.
And then I would kind of like talk them through
like even just like breathing or what I would do
if they came to see me, and kind of gave
them a bit of a treatment plan and was like,
you know, we would start with your sleep, like if
(28:33):
you do have something, like we don't have to start
at the scariest moments. I like, we can't start, like
I work in a different a lot of different areas,
you know, so that was really cool just to kind
of help someone to understand right for the beginning, like
while they were in office, like to chat with them
because you have the benefits of therapy. But then yes
to your amazing point of just that connection is so important.
(28:55):
So I offer a free fifteen minute phone consultation with
anyone who's considering to be my client, because a lot
of people don't know we're trained differently. So I'm a
psychologist that is trained in stress and anxiety management and
mindfulness and integrative health, and so I talk a ton
about I always makes a laugh on someone's like this
is too much information. I was like, no, Like, what's
happening in your stomach is actually helping me to know
(29:17):
what's happening with your anxiety that's happening. And I would
go to all of these means. I've worked with medical
physicians forever, like those symptoms allowed me to know when
I need to get them back to you guys, right,
But not every trained that way. Or I do a
lot of work in sexual health. So if you come
to see me, I am going to ask you about
those areas. Everyone just assumes that you know. A lot
(29:38):
of times I do couple's therapy, and I had a
couple that was like we wanted to fix we were
concerned about our sex life. We went to the couple's therapists,
but they never asked us and we were too like
embarrassed and a shame to bring it up. So they
left couple's therapy and never talked about their sex life.
So it's just like this interesting moment where you would
assume that everyone assesses all of these different areas, and
(29:59):
they don't. So when someone calls me for that fifteen
minute consultation, will give me a snapshot of what their
main concerns are, I'll give them a snapshot of I
do you know I'm training these empirically based I can
give you a whole bunch of different like homework and
coping strategies. But I also am I like the processing,
so we are going to process and talk about So
I like this combination. Not everybody's like that. Some people
(30:21):
will say I only got worksheets from someone or I
just talked the entire time, and so each of us
work very differently. So I like to be very honest
when someone calls and I'm like, this is my approach,
and I'll say to them, I'm not going anywhere talk
to a couple other psychologists. Make sure it feels like
a good fit, like you're gonna be telling us personal details.
You want to have that relationship, you know, and because
(30:43):
it will. When someone says therapy didn't work, my instant
thought as usually they just didn't fit. To find the
right fit. It's probably that's.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
What I see too when patients, you know, and sometimes
now they're finally getting you know. I wouldn't call it brave,
but maybe just aware enough that they just didn't click
with them, you know, just with anyone. Not everybody clicks
and so and I would assume that, especially in therapy,
but I really would extend it to all medicine. If
you're not clicking with your clinician, it's just you're just
(31:13):
not going to feel good and it's not going to
be satisfying, you know. And it is we talk about
this all the time. It's really medicine has become this
team approach, like we cannot do it all, you know.
It's it really is you have a team that supports you,
you know, I.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Mean, are you all telemedicine? Is that how you do
all your care?
Speaker 6 (31:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So before the pandemic, I always was halftime telehealth already
because I saw so many new moms and people with
medical conditions. So as Christine said, we're in northern Virginia,
so in DC, you're not getting anywhere in less than
forty five minutes. So people were like, I'm driving forty
five minutes for a forty five minute session. So I
had a lot of people already on the telehealth before
the pandemic, right, and then after the pandemic that just
(31:57):
so the nice thing too, is what was happening was
I was licensed in Maryland, Virginia, and Pennsylvania. Again, we're
the DC metro area, so somebody would move five miles. Sorry,
I've seen you for three years, but now I can't
see you because I figure in DC. So they were
realizing with the mental health shortage in so for psychologists,
we can become part of something called side packed, which
(32:19):
means that I can now see people in forty two
statesat including the DC area. So it's really awesome because
there's a lot of people who are interested in my
specific training of this mind body medicine and understanding menopause
and hormones and women's health, and now they have access
to providers like us, you know, any that's what's important too, right.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
We really it's so awesome because I still I think
that just it's we don't have enough clinicians, you know,
So it's just been so great that the telehealth helps
provide that too. And and for patients who just don't
they don't want to leave, right, they feel comfortable at
home telling you the things so important.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I love that, right, yeah, just that own kind of
some of that own comfort I love. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Do you ever get any pushback though? I mean I
get a little. I get every now and then I
get some pushback with patients of you know, I want
you know, I don't feel like I'm gonna have that
genuine connection if we're not in the same room together.
So you know, I get every now and then I
see that. And then I mean, do you think that
being you know over the zoom that you know your
(33:31):
your essence of mindfulness and connection, like, how do you
make sure that that's not lost in this virtual realm?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yes? Yeah, I definitely get that too, and I'll respect that.
So when someone says I like, let's try it out,
you're always welcome to say it's not the best fit, right,
And have I had that experience where someone's like, you know,
I think I'm gonna try someone in person or absolutely,
But I think that for me, at least when it
comes to mindfulness, it's just the level of attention that
(34:02):
I try to like listen and give to someone and
be very just there and to provide that space. And
I could be wrong, but I think if you ask
the majority of my clients, they're like, you're Amanda, whether
you're in zoom or in person, so you know, like
just that, like I give a very heartfelt approach and
you can feel that. I like to think most people say, like,
we get your personality through, so again, so somebody really
(34:26):
wants in person, I respect it one hundred percent. But
a lot of people will say I still feel like
I gain a lot of benefit and just that convenience
because if they go on vacation, right, like I said,
I can see you in forty two states. Technically someone
on vacation. I wasn't able to see them before, right,
But now some of the times the most stressful things
are during the holidays or when you are a vacation
(34:46):
with your family. And could you imagine how many people
they love it. They get to step out and they
get to do telehealth with me, and they're like, my
holidays are better. My vacations are better, like you know
what I mean, because they're just like I actually get
to enjoy these people around me versus just feeling stressed out.
So I like to think too, it's just been really
cool to have like actually gives my clients so much
more access to me than they had before in all honesty,
(35:08):
So I wish.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
I wish we could get to that place in medicine
as well, especially with the DEA. You know, the DEA
is a federal number, and yet you have to have
one for each stage and you can't get one for
each state unless you have an address in that state
and in.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
Multiple state And it's not inexpensive, no, it's like eight
hundred and eighty eight dollars. Yeah, So I would love
if we could get to a point where we are
like that in medicine too, where we have some type
of connection between the states because.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
You know, you're either qualified or you're not.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
The states don't have different bars. There isn't a low
bar from Irland and a higher bar for Virginia, Like
it's the same. You know, you need the same qualifications
to get your license in all these states.
Speaker 6 (35:58):
It's just a money racket as much it is a
money rack.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, and if it's that much of a discrepancy, we
should probably be addressing that, yes, versus just having an
interstate like yeah, absolutely for issue.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
So yeah, Amanda, do you have any favorite like mindfulness
apps you know for patients who you know might want
to you know, dip their toes in the water, you know,
in lead of a visit.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
So oh I love that question too because I get
that a lot. And one I would say, for many
people who have never meditated before, I do like using
guided meditations because what I'll say is, when you're sitting there,
we don't know if someone's just if you just worry
for twenty minutes, you're just strengthening your worry muscle, right, Like,
that's what we don't Actually unless I have you looked
(36:49):
up to a heartmouth or something, I can't really tell
exactly what's going on there. So that idea of like
that guiding will help. So it's really cool with like
braining ma dream too. So I had mentioned John Cavinson.
What was so great about his work is that a
lot of people thought of meditation is very new age, right,
and so was this really helping? And then he started
(37:09):
at UMass for different chronic health conditions, and we started
to look at the brain and actually help people up
to electrodes as they were meditating. And what was really
cool is what we noticed that the frontal lobe, that
little commentary that's always going, this could be better, I
want this to be different. Why like always making a
hormon on who we think we are in these situations.
(37:30):
That frontal lobe lights up a lot, and people who
don't meditate consistently, what's really cool is this other part,
the experiential part, lights up for people who meditate consistently.
So what does that mean? I could sit here and
I could describe as a beautiful rendition of what it's
like to eat an orange. It will never touch the
(37:50):
experience of actually eating the orange. And you'd be amazed
how many people have an orange in front of them
eating and they're in the frontal lobe. I had a
better orange when I was in Florida. I had a
better orange versus just experiencing it. And what's really cool
is that you start to realize that somebody will say,
isn't it really boring to always just focus on the breath?
If you really pay attention each breath is slightly different.
(38:13):
So it's really when you start to live in this
experiential part of your brain that there's a lot of
benefit from that. So to your point of like using
why would those guided meditations and making sure people know
what to do when they're sitting there can be really helpful,
especially if you're not going to work with somebody, but
even what school is when you work with someone, you
can tell me what your experience was during your meditation
(38:34):
and I can walk you through it. Then about like,
so I sometimes will record my own meditations for clients
if I'm going to use Yeah, some people will be
like your voice, I'm just you're so calm, Like, can
you do a sleep meditation for me? Kind of sure.
Whenever I would do the mindfulness groups, I always did
my own recording, so they just got very used to
my voice at that point and so different. If you
(38:55):
like more of like an educational like course, there's things
like head space and calm that will literally give you
like do this week one, do this week two? If
you are a little bit more like did to explore
and open ended, I would say things like there's something
called bootify, like Buddhify or insighte timer. Insite timer is
(39:17):
really cool because it's a lot of people just donating
their time. My favorite part of that is a lot
so you're sitting there in silence, all by yourself. Right.
For anyone who's meditated consistently, we'll tell you that we
actually feel extremely much more connected to other individuals. So
on insite timer, when you finish meditating, they show you
a map of the world and everybody who is meditating
(39:38):
at that same exact time as you. And it's just
like this really cool of like, oh, that's awesome. Right.
I have no affiliation with any of these apps. I
just these are just and there's so many out there
at this point, but there's really My main thing to
anybody is don't get caught up in researching the apps.
Just do it. It would be like reading a book
(39:58):
on a treadmill, never getting on the treadmill. If there's
some clients who will come to me you read triple
the amount of books I have read on mindfulness, and
I'll be like, have you ever done it? And they're
like no. I'm like, that's great. You have all of
this academic but you just need to do it. So
I would say even before I went to that long
silent retreat, I was like, how do I am a doctor? Right?
(40:19):
I love to study for things like how do I
get prepared for this? And my mens was like, you
just go, you just go and do it right, and
then you like do it and it's like so if
anything else, don't get wrapped up in what app specifically,
just pick one and do it and it will take
you far.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
Oh Amanda, I feel like we could talk to you
all day, literally all day and awesome. Will you tell
our listeners where they can find you? How do they
follow you online? How can they find you if they're
a patient?
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (40:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
So if you go to my website, which is Peace
of Mindfulness LLC dot com. So if you go there,
you can just click on the contact and you can
set up that free consultation call. And honestly, I'm genuinely
here to help. So if someone even has one of
these questions of like you know, a book or an
app or I get all kinds of things through there,
and that's fine. I love it all. I'm happy to
help in any way that I can. I'm smiling a
(41:12):
little bit because I know you could. Lovely laders are
doing amazing on Instagram, and I support that. I laugh though,
because as a psychologist we encourage people to stay off
social media. I don't post very much myself on social media.
I think, actually, Christine, the event we did was the
reason I created a business like Instagram. So you can
go to my Instagram and it'll at least link you
(41:33):
to my website to know how to connect with me.
And I do try to post anytime I do a
podcast or like a presentation in case people are interested.
I actually just published my first children's book, to Worry Bug,
so I posted about that on my Instagram, But the
website and then also my emails on there is usually
probably the best way to get a hold of me,
(41:54):
not through my DMS of Instagram. I'm out on social
media all that much.
Speaker 6 (42:00):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We
really appreciate this. It's great great thank you by.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Keep doing amazing work. So my interest area my entire
career has been women's health. I love empowering women to
know that it is okay to carve out this time
for yourself. And if you have a hard time even
doing that, maybe you really need to talk to me,
and I will gladly show you the ropes why it's
so important to carve out this time for yourself and
to make sure you're doing what you need to do
(42:28):
to really just invest in yourself. Thank you so much
with us, Bye bye, bye bye