The Business of Being a Doctor: Dr. Ghofrani on Medicine, Influencing & Supplements

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Dusty Muffins, where menopause meets sisterhood and strength.
We're three menopause specialists coming together to laugh, share, and
empower you through the wild ride of menopause and perimenopause.
Whether you're curious, confused, or just looking for real talk,
you're in the right place. We're here to answer your
burning questions, educate, and advocate all with a dash of

(00:21):
humor and a lot of heart. So pull up your
chair and join the conversation. Before we dive in, Please remember,
while we're doctors, we're not your doctors. This podcast is
for educational purposes only and it's not a substitute for
medical advice. We encourage you to partner with your own
medical clinician to address your unique health needs. This is

(00:42):
the Dusty Muffins.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I am a doctor, Remcca Hurdle. I'm a Board certified
osteopathic family medicine physician and a Menopause Society Certified practitioner.
I have your private tele medicine practice and I see
patients in several different states.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I am doctor Ifa Osama, a Board certified family physician
and Menopause Society Certified practitioner, and I see patients through
my tele medicine practice here in Oregon and Washington.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I'm doctor Christine Harkress, a Board certified Women's Health Nurse
practitioner and Menopause Certified practitioner, and I see patients via
telemedicine in several states as well. HI see that. We're
so happy to have you.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
I am so excited to be with the Dusty Muffins.
You girls are my favorite. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
We love that.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
So we were doing a bunch of stalking on Instagram
and noticed that you go back to Instagram from twenty eleven,
but in twenty nineteen you started talking about being a doctor,
and apparently there's a story about why you became a doctor.
So we'd like to start off. We want all the tea.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Well, I all the tea, listen. I laugh about twenty
eleven because I think the only pictures from back then
are like my daughter's little feet, there were like four
pictures because they because remember the filters were so good
on Instagram because I was like a Facebook person and
then I don't think I probably posted until twenty eighteen,
and then I started posting a little bit more so when.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
You were posting before, like COVID, which was cool. That's
what we were.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Like right before. All was yeah, like right, COVID. But
should I talk about that or should I talk about
being a doctor? Which question would you?

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Like?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
You tell me the doctor one?

Speaker 1 (02:24):
And then we're yeah, then well then we want the instagram.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
About why I became a doctor? How I became a doctor,
my long and winding road, I know. Well, here's where
I think my story is valuable because I think people
are often told like, what is your passion? And people
often say to me, like, I'm sure they say to
you three, you must have always wanted to be in medicine.
You must have always wanted to be in women's health.
And everyone who's known me for my entire life up

(02:47):
until I was twenty two knows that that is not true.
I did not want to be a doctor. My parents
were doctors. I love seeing what they did, but I
knew it was a grueling task. They were very clear,
if you don't love it, don't do it, because it
is grueling.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
As all four of us.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
No, So I wanted to do anything, but I wanted
to be a jewelry designer. I wanted to go into business,
quote unquote, not knowing what that meant, and then when
I was six months away from graduating from college and
my fourth major at Georgetown, my best friends still remind
me of this. They're like, remember that day where you
walked in and you were like, I'm going to be
a doctor, and I The funniest part is the funniest
part is is I do not remember that day. I

(03:22):
literally don't remember. All I know is that I then
started taking pre meds after graduation from college, so it
took me three years.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Are your parents dying?

Speaker 4 (03:31):
They literally said, we love that you're gonna do this,
but we don't actually believe that you're committed to it.
So they actually wouldn't let me have my own apartment
in New York City where I took my pre meds
because they felt like, what if you skip out on
these just because you've gone through four majors, So they
made me live in my sister's apartment. She was in
law school in New York City. We lived in the

(03:52):
same apartment, which she was sharing with her two best friends.
So I had to live in her room for like
for five months. And then once I kind of proved
that I got past that hurdle, then my Mom was like, okay,
because listen, this was like three extra years of them
supporting me, as you all know, which is not true.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yes, because my kid did one extra major and changed
a major. And I was like, uh yeah, hold on.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, well, and so I still managed to graduate undergraden
four years. If you don't tack on the three years
of premits, I mean, I'll joke aside of course, like
the Monday morning quarterbacking now is isn't it wonderful that
we didn't push you, which is true, by the way,
because you came to it on your own, which is
also true. And I really ended up once I got
to it, and I started medical school at twenty five.

(04:34):
I really loved it. But even then I wanted to
be a general surgeon like my father, or a pediatrician
like my mother, vastly different fields, but I loved the
I loved surgery, but I also loved, oh, pediatrics, you
get to know your patients, not because I loved kids.
Then in medical school, and this might have happened to you, guys,
I had this amazing experience in our obgun in rotation

(04:54):
where I got exposed to the really wonderful part of obgun,
which is I got to actually do surgery and get
to know my patients, and so it was fun and
exciting and impactful and an adrenaline rush, but also like
all the parts that I love, like collaborating with people.
And so by my third year, I decided to be
an obgyn. Had you asked me before? And I really
cringe at the thought of this. I thought gynecology was gross,

(05:16):
which is so deeply immature of me. If my daughter
at twenty four was like, that's disgusting, it's gross, I
would rate her right. But I was like that dumb
twenty four. I was like, ough, just gross until I
decided to do it. So that was my long and
winding road. And then I did residency, and I truly
do not regret it at all. I think there's a
lot of things all four of us probably could have
loved to do. I always say medicine is the medium

(05:40):
with which I get to collaborate and connect and engage
with people, and I'm so glad that's the one I chose,
But I think I could have done other things I
would have liked. It's just that, I mean, listen, the
four of us get the built in like it feels
really nice and good to do something we love. We're
never going to be multi billionaires because of it, but
we get reimbursed and we get to do good. We
feel good about ourselves while also helping people, and it's

(06:01):
and it's interesting. So that was it.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
I want to give a shout eye because you're bringing
mac memories for me. And I did a second residency
when I came over to the US and we did
ob was such a massive part of it, and the
obi that we worked with were amazing. But what made
my experience magical for me was the midwives.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
Oh that's so fun me. Actually, I will tell you
ef of me too, because I was in medical school
in Tel Aviv and the mid whiffery program there was
everyone who was healthy would go to the midwives within
the hospital and then the doctors would come in for
what they were trained to do, which, by the way,
I still say, this is someone who delivers babies. I
would love that if we had a comprehensive view of

(06:46):
it in America, which we do not. But you're right,
the midwives were there was no antagonism between midwiffery and obstetricians.
It was so collaborative. It was meant to be the
best situation where we guide women to do what they
could do, and then if their bodies for whatever reason
or the baby didn't it didn't work out well, then
the doctors would intervene.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
So I love that you up perfect, perfect setup.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah, I can't believe you did two residencies. Holy cow.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yes, Like the creb cycle is, Oh my god, you
better know it now?

Speaker 4 (07:22):
No, do you know it now? No?

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I love theb cycle.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, she look at her light up.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
Wait, because you know, I use the example of the
crab cycle, which, like for our audience who might not
know it, the crab cycle is this cycle you have
to memorize in general chemistry. And I always joke that
I have a tenuous knowledge of so many things, Like
if you asked me to describe cryptocurrency, I'd be like, no, no,
it's like the crab cycle. I memorized it to like
learn it for a minute, and then if you ask
me to regurgitate it, I'd be like, I don't know.

(07:48):
Test is over. I don't know it right, So I
can't believe you still know it.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh I don't still know it. But I did love it, Yes,
And I used to draw it out over and over again,
you know, draw a diagram of the heart, whatever it was.
I was always drawn. Art drew in the crab cycle.
I don't know, like the type of meditation.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
I think, ye that boring, but it became meditative.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
That's the exciting person. I am that art.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I've got the same way in residency, like I loved everything,
or in medical school everything I wanted to do it all.
We had we we were very fortunate to have an
amazing OBI and gynecology and very women's health, you know,
focus that. Where had we graduated when we could have
done underserved and delivered babies and things like that and

(08:44):
so but I loved it all. That was the problem
I went through every So I wanted to do OBI.
Then I wanted to do internal medicine, and then I
wanted to do so every single one. And I was like,
I think I should just do family medicine because I
love it all.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
That's so good. That's so funny because it reminds me
of like do you guys all remember when you're in
school and you think you have every affliction like anything
you learned about your life. I absolutely I have lupus.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I yes, my daughter's doing that right now, right.

Speaker 4 (09:10):
I have porphyria. Is your daughter in medical school?

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, she's just starting her
third year.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, crazy tell.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh, she just took her first step of both the
MD and the do O boards. And I'm like, are
you crazy?

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Wait? Why would she do that?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
So in certain residencies, I guess the thought still is,
at least it was so I did an osteopathic medical school,
and so, but I did not sit for anything but
osteopathic boards because I was execrat that I'm not doing that.
And but the thought, at least back then and so
what must still be that there are certain residencies that

(09:51):
will to make you more competitive, you should sit for
both boards.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I think you know what.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Two of my partners are do os. I wonder if
to ask them. I mean they've been.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, you have to ask.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
I was like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
I've never thought about that. Crazy. It sounds like hell, yes.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yes, I haven't seen her for like, I don't know,
a month, two months, so, but now it's done.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
I can't believe you have a kid old enough to
be in medical school.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
That's yeah, well, you know I started, I started medical school.
Off I had her at twenty three, so I was
twenty four or twenty five when I started.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Oh you're kidding and so mature. Yeah that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
So HM are crazy.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah we're crazy. We're going to go with mature today.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I like that better.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
So tell us what you got on Instagram when we
were talking about it, and we think you're like one
of the original at least of the menoposse Instagram influencer,
well three, probably the original.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
It sounds like.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Everybody else I know not on it, and then your
content is very started out, very different. I mean, you
love the muffin, you love ever.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
Sing the muffin the Virginia twelve. Well, it's so funny
because I met her in men who, for anyone listening,
is one of our friends in our little meno posse,
who's amazing about breast cancer and the intersection with hormeown
replacement and menopause. She and I met like three years
ago at an event in New York City. I probably
had fifty thousand followers and she literally had like five,

(11:28):
and literally like within six months she's at I don't know,
two hundred and something thousand, and I laugh because I
always think that to myself, like, thank God, I'm not
at this point at age fifty five in my life
like deeply insecure. And this is the biggest reason I
say to my daughter, like, listen at fifty five on Instagram,
I'm not insecure. But of course I still do look

(11:49):
at myself and they go, oh, I'm so glad that
I do what I do. I have my own little
you know, following, but I'm certainly not growing exponentially at all,
nor am I doing what it takes to do that.
So I understand why I'm not. But it's impossible not
to kind of not compare yourself.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
But just you cognizan you feel away, yeah, right, and
you have to be aware of not feeling I call
it Christina, And I think I think you and I
were talking about that where, you know, maybe a week
or so ago, and I'm just like, you can't look
at that. A We're all happy that our you know,
our friends and our colleagues are growing and doing well.
But boy, it's hard not to get like, oh my gosh,
how come I'm not and start comparing yourself.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
You have to really step away from you, really do yeah, well,
And I think, you know what, I was remind myself
if if I ever get into that mode, which i'd
be lying if I said I never do, but I'd say,
like the good is again with age and gravitas and experience.
And I think a lot of us managed to coach
ourselves like I. It's not that any of us could
do anything, but I do recognize that if I wanted
to grow more, I could do the things to grow more.

(12:47):
But obviously it doesn't for me for whatever reason, it
doesn't feel. There's a lot that goes into my mind
about when I post in what I post, meaning, I
do it very off the cuff. So to the question,
I got on it. Right before the pandemic, I went
to a conference in LA that was for basically for
entrepreneurs who are mostly in the medical space. But the
truth is it was a lot of estheticians and plastic

(13:08):
surgeons and dermatologists. And I went with a good friend
of mine who's an integrative doctor. We wanted to do
a fun conference in LA that wasn't exactly medical, it
was adjacent and at that that was twenty eighteen. I
was probably the only doctor in the conference who takes insurance,
like still takes insurance, and they had said, don't overthink it,
just post and I remember thinking, oh, that's great advice,
because I'm certainly not of type A. I'm not a perfectionist.

(13:31):
But I also was like, oh, I see everyone else's stuff.
It should be more edited and just more organized, and
I'm not that kind of person. I won't have time
to do it, so I just end up procrastinating. So
hearing them say just post it, and I started, and
actually it must have been a year later. Well somewhere
on twenty eighteen, it was our twentieth anniversary. My husband
and I were He had planned a trip. We're an Anguila.

(13:54):
He plans the most ridiculous route to fly to like
get cheaper tickets that for like a four days a
four day week, we were like twelve hours of flying.
And so I put on my camera and I was
like hashtag twenty years of bliss. This fucking sucks. I
can't believe it. I'm so annoyed and like that that

(14:15):
like not that it went viral, but like of my
I don't know fifty followers, I think I went up
to like two hundred followers because I think people were
happy that I was actually being authentic because I was, like,
this is talking were together. I've be married twenty.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Years and they love to see it.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Yeah, I think, and that like helped me go and
you know, okay, because that's what I can do well.
Like I'm not good at polished, I'm not good at organized.
I'm good at like actually just being myself and being
transparent and like telling people anything that I have been
given permission by my friends and family to tell, which
is certain things I'm not given permission, so I don't
speak about it. So I started that, and then once

(14:47):
the pandemic hit, because I mean, as we all know
having been in the hospital, right and especially in obstetrics,
we were inundated, like everyone else as a joke, was
baking bread and like making puzzles and we were all
working double time and we didn't remember we didn't have
any masks obviously, And so I started talking frequently about
how we need to kind of structure our mind with

(15:08):
regard to COVID and how we shouldn't get too scared.
But let's let's we know that the information is going
to change, here's what we need to think about, you know,
let's talk about masking. And that just kind of slowly
took off more and more. And my initial videos when
I would talk about anything Obgyn were like fifteen minutes long,
and I remember a bunch of people liked them. They
were like impactful that paps me? What's a papsme? Or

(15:29):
what's this? But my mother would always be like, you know,
she's very cute, she has an accent, you know, I mean,
it's very good, but it's a little too long, and
I'm like, Mom, I just think you're maybe even not
my audience, like, you know, you don't want to hear
about papsmeres right now? You're like at the time, she was,
you know, aby something. So yeah, that's how I started,
and it just slowly trickled and grew and listen, I'd

(15:51):
be lying if I didn't say that it would be
fun to like take off even more. But I also
recognize that it won't take off more if I don't
put more into it. And I'm putting in the amount
that I feel I can put in right now, because
as we know, it's not for the thing to part,
because yes, I you know it's not. So it's like

(16:12):
my own little slice has been appropriate for me. I
don't you know, I don't rely on it financially, so
that's also really helpful. But it has helped me. I mean,
it really helped me recognize that there are other parts
within the field of medicine where I could still practice,
still take insurance in one aspect, but also like honor
myself and not be the person who until three years

(16:34):
ago was in the office seeing thirty to thirty five
patients a day and then staying until phone calls until
eight pm, and never exercising, never eating healthily, like really
abusing my own body. But I was really taking care
of my patients in a way that I loved. But
now that I get to do things a little differently,
a lot of it because of what I've learned and

(16:55):
the people I've met. I would never have met you guys,
We would never have known. Do you know that I
was Kelly one of Kelly Casperson's first podcast podcast guests
back when she had you guys at Bob, I was
in my office.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
It was like, that's when we started following her right
around covid or right then.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
My tag on Instagram was big love fears ju ju.
I don't even know how she found me, but I
talked a lot about like vaginal lester and all that stuff.
And I remember it was a Friday afternoon, I just
finishing my patients and I'm like, you know, we're on
Zoom or whatever we used back then, and I was
one of the first podcasts that was like, that was
my first podcast I'd been on, and she was one
of the first people. I mean, I was one of
her first guests.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
So yeah, it's very cool.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
No, your little car park videos are my favorite. Where
you work or you're going into work and you're sitting
in the car and you give us a little gem
thank you.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Well, I don't know if any of you have been
on the insta today, but the gem I put up today,
I think this is actually I think this is a
really valuable conversation that we could always talk about another time.
But I said the thought that doctors and nurse practitioners
and pas who are trained in pathology, right we're trained
to take care of people when they're sick. We don't
have time in medical school and residency to learn nutrition, exercise,

(18:12):
all those things. We don't have time to learn it.
There are other people who know it and then we're
blamed for not knowing health care. We're blamed because we
only know sick care. But again to your point IFA
about midwiffery, I don't go into every delivery assuming they
need a doctor. I go into every delivery assuming they
need a doctor, because that's the model we're in right now.

(18:33):
I would love to be in a model. I joke
at my patrol time. I love to have the delivery
where I get to do what a midwife would do.
It's so great. And not to say that what they
do is easy. They have to deal with some complications
as well that they're trained for, and then we're trained
for higher order things. But this notion that then we're
blamed because we want to keep people sick, which is absurd,
Like we don't need to keep people. Say, there are

(18:54):
millions of people who even if they did aggress nutrition
and exercise, there would still be illnesses. We would have
more than enough business and the country would function better.
So I mean, I posted that just I don't know
two hours ago, and it's gotten a lot of comments,
mostly in support of but a couple of people who
kind of feel like, but doctors are the ones gaslighting
people and the truth is, we all know they are
gaslighting people. There is a lot of patriarchy are but

(19:17):
also we are all there's like the two the second victim, right,
we're the victims as well as the perpetrators at times
such just aparent.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, we weren't taught these right, we weren't taught
these things. We weren't you know when I started dabbling
a little bit into like the lifestyle medicine stuff and
like learning about it, and it's not for these heart
it's a lot of information. Yeah, and by the way,
this is all ex program when we.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Know that the only way to do that is outside
of the insurance model because insurance won't reimburse it, so
that means we're all not able to offer it to
people who are resourced. And so there's a there's a
lot of us.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
And that's where Instagram comes in, because that's why I
think so many of us are on Instagram, because we
can give back to more people being on Instagram as
an educational platform so that they have those resources when
their providers are providing that information in the traditional model.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, we do this podcast and we have our Instagram
and that's all free information. Education, which makes us feel
a little bit better about working outside the insurances.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, I know, although I don't know about you guys.
I always joke like when I'm on Instagram and like
I just go to talk about like jewelry and skincare
and OBGI and health that's it. But then all this
other stuff comes into my feed, and then I feel
the burden of reporting on or commenting on the assault
on women's health, the assault on healthcare, all of these
other issues, because it is unfortunately now we know that

(20:44):
we cannot stay agnostic, like a lot of this stuff
is you know, politics is infringed on healthcare. It shouldn't have,
but it did. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah, they're in the exam room with us, between us
and our patient. There's a drug company, there's an insurance,
a politician, and there's that's a small exam room and
they're all in there with us without permission.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
You're right.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's a lot more fun to talk about some of
those other things too, you know, and sometimes sometimes it
does lighten it up, I think for your followers. I
you know, I was starting to just add some more
home stuff, like you know, this is me doing this
and this is me doing this, and boy, they love
to get to know that piece of you. Instead of
always being like, this is education, this is education, They're like,

(21:31):
who is this person? We kind of want to know
what else to do. And that's been a little bit
of a fun change.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Why don't we talk about your jewelry?

Speaker 4 (21:40):
Then?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Sheifa, yeah, about and.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I love it. Yes, we would talk about jewelry all day.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Who cares about the others. I wouldn't want to talk
about politics. Yeah, I mean, I've always I'll joke, I
mean Iranian Iranian's love their gold. But the irony is
when I was in you know, listen, I was born
in nineteen seventies, so in the eighties, we all they
were sterling silver. We did not wear gold. Gold was
I mean, for lack of a better word, we kind
of looked at gold as very cheesy, as like teenagers
in the eighties. I remember in college my best friends

(22:09):
to this day, she still makes fun of me because
she's like, remember when you were like, I don't be
yellow gold. I mean it's so cheesy. I wear Sterling silver.
And now they all like jokingly say that, I'm like,
mister t because I'm dripping in both. But yeah, so
I've always loved it. I would love to have been
a jeweler designer, but yeah, I didn't have the talent
and I don't want to be a starving artist. So
I just you know what it is. I just feel

(22:29):
that it is representative of Like each of these has
a little story, and I have a lot more that
I don't put on just because at end the time,
I never take them off other than a couple times
a year to like clean them when I'm bleaching my hair,
and they are covered when I'm in the operating room,
although obviously, like I take off everything that's on my
hands and wrists to operate. But yeah, I just think

(22:51):
it's I don't know, I feel like there's nothing wrong
with having an expression of your personality while also being
a serious clinician. Right, I think they can both co exist, right, Yes,
Like this is a designer. They're all different. I mean,
some are antique, some are vin individual Like right now,

(23:15):
I have one, two, three, four chains and I don't
know how many charms I have on a bunch of
different ones. Like one of my good friends from college
actually worked for tifty for years. She has her own company,
so this ball is from one of her companies. This
word says engaged. That's one of my favorite words. I
always say I like to engage and be engaged. It's
my first tattoo, so she had that made for me.

(23:38):
Some of them are more famous designers. And then like this,
this big coin on the end is an antique. So
for people who are not watching but listening, it's that
French phrase that says I love you more today than yesterday,
but not as much as tomorrow. And that was mine
and my husband's songs that we danced to at our wedding,

(23:58):
even though there are days that I like him less
than yesterday. That's okay, we're working on it. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
I thought that that was like one piece. I didn't
realize that is.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I'm glad we asked.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
I do too. Every time I see it, I'm like.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
Oh, thanks, thanks, thanks, It's like, you know, it's very blank.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Come on, yeah, want the Dusty Muffins at your next event.
We do panels, live podcast and talks that bring the
heat literally corporate see me or retreats. We've got you,
So hit us up at the Dusty Muffins three three
three at gmail dot com or d MS on Instagram
at the Dusty Muffins. It's a shoes. I have shoes,
so my patients are shoes today have today?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, you have on Instagram. Now, it's like a palatial
plot palace in there.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
It's my most favorite place. I would live there, like
right sitting inside there.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
We can all live in there.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Tiffany Moon and doctor Tiffany Moon and her boys.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
You know that. There. There are some really fascinating private
Facebook groups and one of them is for doctors who
really enjoy bags and jewelry. But it's like a very
supportive space. You have people who are like hard working physicians,
and then we sell each other our pre owned bags.
So I like to believe we are also trying to
save the planet.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
While I love that groups.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Everyone's in these groups and I'm just like, where did
you find them?

Speaker 4 (25:41):
To learn a lot? I mean I learned a lot.
Actually I learned a lot of obstetric pearls from another
obstetric Moms group. So there's you know, and then I
get to learn about bags. There's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And the other thing that you love is your clothing,
which is embroidered.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Yes, the history.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
On well clothing.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
So again I've always this is actually the truth. I
know that we have all kind of explored and discussed
weight at different times in our friendship and relationships. Right. So,
I grew up in a town in Connecticut which was
like a largely white, like Judeo Christian town, like everyone's
Jewish or Christian and skinny, and I was like, not
that I'm so brown, but I mean Irani and like

(26:23):
I always joking, I was like, you know, glasses, braces
and a mustache, right, and my figure was just different,
like I'm petite on top of I'm a bigger butt.
And there was definitely some disordered eating in our family
because of different reasons. And so I think that because
I didn't have everyone's figure, But I also kind of
liked fashion. I had to get really creative because I
couldn't kind of wear what everyone else wore. It just

(26:44):
didn't look right on me. And so fashion was something
that really I got really into, like in the eighties especially,
And so because of that, I would sometimes soew my
own clothes, like literally in nineteen eighty four, you guys,
I remember getting a pair of pants and sewing an
elastic around the ankle to kind of make them like
almost look like joggers now. And I would like sew
shoulder pads into my things, So I've always loved that stuff.

(27:07):
Then flash forward, I don't know if you all remember,
but at probably the first Menopause Society a couple of
years ago, I was wearing that sweater which is a
designer named Gabriella Hurst, and it's called ram Ovaries and
it's like a thin gray sweater and it's got a
uterus with the ovaries on it, and it was something
she did for planned Parenthood. It was a very expensive
sweater that I managed to find pre owned. But then
I donated Planted Parenthood because all of her proceeds go

(27:30):
to plant Parenthood, And that kind of got me thinking
a couple of years ago, like this would be so fun.
And then can you see that embroidered bulba back there?
So it was that sweater I really loved. And then
this that a patient of my maid. So I had
a friend of mine make me what you guys saw,
which was the black dress with the boobs on it.
And then two weeks ago I was the MC of

(27:52):
the Pinnacle Conference, which is female clinicians, not just doctors,
doctors and inspectation's, PA's therapists, everyone, you guys should all come.
It's so fun. And I had her make me. I
got two pre owned dresses that were literally forty dollars
each that looked like ball gowns or bridesmaid's dresses, depending
on how you want to look at it. And I
had her embroider a volva like that but in evil

(28:14):
eye colors right on the front because I was the
MC and I thought I had to do something fun.
And then can you see it? And then the other
one was a big uterial with like flowers. Because the
truth is, I do think as clinicians we should use
these words more frequently, more casually, more accurately. Obviously, right,
we all know that people are using inaccurate term. So

(28:35):
the back of the vulva evil eye dress said it's vulva,
not vagina, because we all know everyone messes that up.
And to me, it's kind of like, it's fun, it's creative,
but it also it's a conversation piece and creates a
statement so that people can start saying these words and
talking about these words and using them more accurately. I
mean there's so much data we know that when when

(28:56):
young children learn those anatomical words more correctly, right, they
are less likely to be victims of sexual abuse. So
there's to me, there's like fun creative reasons and then
very pragmatic reasons. And if I can combine those, I
feel like it makes it. I don't know, it just
makes it better.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
We always love seeing what you're wearing.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
I'm in it, and.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I love that we talked about it and then we
saw it because we talked about it at ishuish and
I know.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
I was excited. Well, and now I'm like, I mean,
now I don't know because there's only so many body
parts obviously that like look good. And and I'm you know,
I'm not a hepatologist. I'm not a nephrologist. I don't
want to wear a kidney or a liver. So like
I'm just gonna have to keep doing different like colored iterations.
Like I'm already thinking because we're all gonna be in
Orlando together at menopausea'snety meeting, right, I'm already thinking, like

(29:46):
what am I gonna wear? I come up with something cool?
You know what, I'm true because remember when we were
at for anyone watching, remember, so Ifa, you're right, I
didn't think about that. I could do. I could just
like if you're so smut, Okay, thank you very much.

(30:09):
That will be my next one. Thanks. I love it
on a dress or I was thinking I need I
might get a couple of like shirts because I like
to wear dresses anyway. But sometimes you gonna have a shirt.
Maybe I'll put this and have a like a line
underneath that says guess what, right, because most people what

(30:29):
this is? Yeah, did you not? Okay?

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Even we all need to wear.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Them, listen, I don't. I have not yet made swag.
I don't know about you guys, but wait, didn't one
of you made some swag?

Speaker 3 (30:43):
No, we had some T shirts in Miami, we had THEFFS.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
I mean, I feel like that would be a fun
foray to make some swag and get that done. Yea,
But so you know what other people are doing it?

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well?

Speaker 4 (30:55):
I don't know. Do you guys follow Paging doctor Franz.
She has like a really cool line of swag. Yeah, yes,
And my friends who make me literally like hand cross
stitches them. So it's labor intensive and lot of work. Yeah, yeah,
that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, tell us about Pinnacle. How did that go?

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Ye?

Speaker 4 (31:15):
It was great. It's in sadly in Texas. I say
that right now if people listen to the future. There's
a reason we say sadly in Texas. It is not
the bastion of women's rights as we know. But there
are three founders that are physicians. So Natalie Crawford who's
an Arii Rupa Wong is an ophthalmologist, and then Pam
Meta is a general surgeon. And I will tell you all.
It is such a supportive place. It's two hundred and

(31:36):
fifty people, two hundred fifty women com It's again female clinicians,
so doctors, nurse practitioners, pelvic floor, physical therapists, mental health therapists, dentists,
all the realm of clinicians. And what is so amazing
is that it all at once. Is this convergence of
people who are listening to lectures and talks by female
clinicians about either entrepreneurial issues, how they've built their practice,

(32:00):
what they've done on social media or activism. But we're
all there to have fun. If you love dressing up,
you'll love it. If you don't love dressing up, you
don't need to. Everyone is supportive, like there's no you know,
let's face it, we all know when we're at some
of the academic conferences, not ish wish as much. But
at menopause society there are those people who we all
know who are a little bit snotty standing in the corner,

(32:21):
are judging people, not necessarily judging on what they're wearing,
but just judging. And I will tell you that Pinnacle,
I really give them credit and really set the tone.
And I was so honored they asked me to MC,
and I pray they're gonna ask me to MC next year.
We'll see, but it is such a supportive environment. And
I one of the things I talked about as i
MC was what I really want for us as women

(32:42):
is to never allow that narrative that, oh, when women
get together, they just tear each other down, And this
is what happens when you know women like to I
always say, listen, there are assholes everywhere. There are shitty women.
They are shitty men, they're shitty doctors, they're shitty lawyers,
they're shitty everyone. But as a group, we can also
collaborate and lift each other up and be just as
happy for each other and that's this kind of conference.
So it's really I mean it when I tell you

(33:05):
not one person there. It's not your rude, Like, if
you don't want to engage and talk to people, you
just wouldn't go to this conference, right, Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:14):
How did you get connected.

Speaker 4 (33:17):
During the pandemic? Again, I think when I was on
social media, there was you know how like you all
of a sudden see stuff and you're like, how do
these people all know each other? How did I not
know about this party? So they had their first Pinnacle
the year before the pandemic, I didn't know about it. Again,
I was just a beat my toe on social media.
And actually, these these three they are truly the founders
of like not truly but like they're within the founders

(33:39):
of social media with do you know Austin Chang for example, Like,
there's a group of physicians who really have been on
social media far before me, and they have much bigger platforms.
And so I had seen on Instagram that a bunch
of them were at this event that looked really great.
And then they had actually an online like a live
interactive sessions during the pandemic that I joined, and it

(34:01):
was fun and then I ended up going again with
my same friend where we wanted to do a fun
medical conference that wasn't exactly medical, so we went and
she actually last minute ended up not being able to go,
which was so sad for various reasons, but it meant
I had to show up there alone and meet a
bunch of people and everyone was really wonderful. And then
so the second year I ended up being on a

(34:22):
panel talking about you know, life as a parent who
works a lot. And then this year they asked me
to MC so it was great. Yeah, yeah, awesome. Everyone
should check it out.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah, that's really awesome. Struggling with mood swings, low energy,
weight changes, are feeling dismissed about your hormones, You're not crazy,
You're in midlife. I'm doctor Rebecca Hurdle, Board certified osteopathic
physician and certified menopause practitioner and not ostopathic midlife health.
I offer personalized concierge telemedicine for women in multiple states,
helping you navigate perimenopause and menopause with expert care focused

(34:57):
on hormones, wait, sleep, libido, and more. My approach blinds
emine based medicine with a deep understanding of longevity and
precision midlife health, because this face isn't just about getting by,
It's about thriving for decades to come. So visit www
dot Astroopathic midlife health dot com and let's build your
roadmap to lasting vitality.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, it looked like a lot of fun. I loved
your photos and videos.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Thank you. We had fun. We had fun. We tried
to do good work and we had fun too.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
That's my kind of conference, all right, I know, I know,
that's what we're going to do. We had fun in
Miami right together. Oh, doctor glasmar organized an amazing women's
health Yes, what did she call it? Like a seminar
empower her?

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, empower Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
And we had so much fun at that and everyone
had little twenty minute talks that were so engaging and interesting,
and then we all got to hang out and have fun.
It was really nice.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Way more fun.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah. Oh yeah, I know. But wait listen, we're going
to bring the fun to Orlando and make it again.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
We're going to make it different.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yes, we're going to make it different. You know. The
one thing I do wish we actually all as a
group did more, and maybe this is something the dusty
Muffins can spearhead. I actually wish we spoke more openly
publicly with each other in point counterpoint discussions, right, because
I think we all agree on the big hi like
the high level, but I think then in individual situations

(36:24):
we disagree a little bit on certain things. And I
think because we love and support each other and we
come at it so differently. We have mds, doos, npspas urologists, eurogynecologists,
obgyn's family practice, right, we could really have a very
impactful conversation so that we could help the women who
are listening understand the narrative that they're saying to us.
Oh my god, it's so confusing. I hear so many

(36:46):
different things, And the answer is yeah, you'll hear certain
different things. Doesn't mean anyone person is right or wrong.
I mean there are different ways to approach and attack this,
and I think we could do it in a way
that is respectful. We know right now there's a large
dialogue going on and are in our part of the
world world that is not respectful of clinicians tearing each
other down and making it seem like, you know, one
group is right, one group is wrong. But I think

(37:07):
we could each do it together in a way that
really highlights, like, you know, why would one clinician we
might really love kind of make it seem like everyone
should be on HRT, whereas a lot of us would say, like, whoa,
we think it's amazing be on HRT. But there are
certain people who really can or don't want to, and
that's okay, And here's where we can help them differently
and talk about it openly, because I don't want us
to kind of present such a united front that it

(37:27):
feels like we're blindly following what each of us say
because it's not the truth, right. We have debates within
our chats and things like that. So I think that's
something that we could do a little bit better than
we kind of do it as a group who's out
there trying to educate people love that.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, yeah, I think some of the people who come
out and make a big deal about this and say
all these doctors are saying you should be on HRT.
Everyone should be on it. It's in the water and
seems so disingenuous to me because I have yet to
come across anyone who's as.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Not absolutely not. No one says it, no one says, oh, no,
the people who are the most vocal in it. But
that said, I do think within each of us there
are probably some people who are more I hate the
word extreme because it sounds like there's something pejorative about it,
but a little more aggressive about one narrative versus another.
But even that is not wrong. It's for a purpose,

(38:22):
and we could we could tease that apart so that
we don't get labeled. None of us get labeled, even
the people who are more on one side shouldn't get
labeled as like only that narrative. And by the way,
if it were true, then more than four percent of
women in America would be on HRT. Like if if
we're pushing the narrative so hard, then we're clearly doing
a shitty job of it because we're not getting the
word out.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Enough, and it doesn't it's not helpful for women out
there trying their best to educate themselves on this to
see other one clinician attacking other clinicians. It's not healthy,
exactly one. I love the doctors, So we take the
approach A rising tied lifts all boats.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
Absolutely, there's no need for us doing that.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
We should be fighting the politician should be fighting the
drug company, should be fighting the insurance companies. But there's
no need to fight each other. And when you take
the things that people are objecting to and you look
at them and they're nothing, they're absolutely nothing. They're not
work or arguing over right.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Well, And that's why I think all of us know,
like our friend Mary Claire Haveor, who gets so much heat.
I always say, like Mary Claire Haveor is not the
villain of this menopause story, Like there are plenty of
other people that we could point to who are really,
really truly harming women by selling selling a lot of
things that we know are not steeped in science and
actually very nefarious. Mary Clairehabor is selling vitamin D and

(39:46):
creatine is not the worst thing, So why is their
focus on it? Right? And it's clinicians who are tearing
her down, and it's and it's female clinicians. And that's
why it's so to me, it's so injurious because it
feeds into that narrative, like we all know why we
think that people are tearing her down. We do think
it's you know, animosity, jealousy, all these things that said,
I don't think it's just because women do it. I

(40:08):
think it's because people do it in this case as women,
and it feels even worse because we should.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
It makes us look it just makes us, it makes
us look bad like we can't play in the playground
together and we can't, you know, and also gives that,
I think that narrative to other patients like well, how
can I trust any of them because they can't even
say you know, they can't agree on anything, and that is,

(40:34):
I think is just that's fracturus, right, because they're just like,
we're trying to get it out. You're an educate, so
that way these women can take this information to their
other providers are know where to take you know what
flax to take away, and you can't blame them for
being like, wow, you guys can't even get your shit
together here, right?

Speaker 4 (40:56):
And and why not instead like certain people that you
that we all know who object to it, why not say, hey,
let's talk about why do I not like that you're
selling such and such? Have an educated debate about it,
because room for the nuance. Yeah, it's so immature and
trust to be.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
A business person, you know. That's the other thing. Why
is that a bad thing to have it. You know,
you can be a physician and it is a business
and you have different aspects of that business and if
patients didn't like it, then they don't go there and
they you know, so yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
I was just going to say, like all of us
get contacted every day right by in our DMS, would
you like to partner with us? We're selling this, that
or the other, and we just ignore it because it's
crazy and it's wasting people's dollars and we know it's
not evidence based. And then you look at something like

(41:55):
Mary Claire Haveber who has a line of supplements, and
all of them are things that we talk about to
our patients because there is some etho. We talk about
creatine and pro and viper. This is not crazy stuff
like there's no need to attack somebody.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
Right well, and that's where I think, couldn't it be done?
And this is something I do think it's good for
the public to hear. We all have different feelings about
what we are willing to do as clinicians, right Like
I'm willing to do ads for a couple of things,
but I say no to most of it. Mary Claire
is willing to sell these supplements. They're single ingredient, very
well vetted. To your point, if there's like and she
feels comfortable doing that, I don't want to sell supplements,

(42:38):
but I don't malign her for doing it, because what
she's doing is still completely ethical, and most importantly, she's
so transparent about it. I see people all the time,
as I'm sure you three do, who come from nature
Paths integrative clinicians, and they're buying vitamins and supplements through
those clinicians, and those clinicians have never disclosed if they're

(42:59):
profiting from it. I have no problem if they've profited
from it, but they should disclose it. She is incredibly transparent,
and so at least she's transparent. At least what she
is offering, to your point, is completely evidence based. She's
not selling some multi proprietary blend of something, right, And
so I think that the public would actually really benefit

(43:19):
from hearing us talk openly about these debates and how
do we feel about it, and why do we feel
okay about this versus that? And on a personal level,
we might not want to do it, but here's why.
It really is completely supported in guidance and data and
all of these things. And so that's what I'm just
going to keep saying to you guys. I think since
you have your podcast, it would be a good thing
to bring up some of those kind of controversial topics

(43:40):
that continue to confuse the ladies, the poor ladies. Womaning
I keep saying.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Womaning is hard, I know, and if you're if you're India,
I love.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
It forking out three four, five, six hundred dollars every
three months to have a Dutch test. And you know
you need to know that the person ordering that is
getting probably a thirty percent kickback.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Yep, Yeah, say that if you are, if you are
ordering a Dutch test, if you're a doctor or clinician
is or your dietician, whoever's doing is ordering a Dutch test,
they are profiting from it. Is there anything wrong with
profiting from it? Not exactly, but they are often not
disclosing it. And I know we all have feelings about
the Dutch test anyway. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
The other one here, of late is all the all
of the patients transitioning off of compounded menopauseal harmone therapy
that are coming and saying, you know, I just don't
feel good, and then you check their levels and they're
still at menopausal levels, and they have been paying for
their compounded therapy. Yes, I had one patient has been

(44:44):
paying for for twenty years, long time. I was impressed
that someone has been prescribing it that long and it's
not working, and providers are also profiting off the compounded products.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yes, not always, we should just so, I was like,
not everyone, meaning some people I do a lot of compounding,
Not everyone with compounding, but a lot of people do
sell it through their own practice, which again we will
all agree is not always wrong, except that it should
be disclosed like that. To me is the most important
topic is how do we do things in a way
that really does help ourselves. There's no reason why we

(45:19):
should not be able to actually validly profit, right, we're
working hard, and we're all in debt for medical school
and everything. But at the same time, we can do
it in a way that is upfront. And I think
the most of the doctors that I know, because we
surround ourselves with people that we trust, do it very validly.
But there are certainly a lot of clinicians out there
and every aschelon, not not necessarily doctors and respectitioners, but

(45:40):
all of them who are doing things in a way
that they should.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, And I totally get the how you come to
the conclusion that you would set up your own line
because you're using things that do have some evidence behind them,
and you're talking to your patients about them, and your
patient is then going to go off and buy it somewhere.
Then why is it worse for you as a business

(46:05):
to make money from that as opposed to a massive
private equity company. Yeah, who owns this? Yeah, the supplements company?
You know, why is that worse?

Speaker 4 (46:15):
So I agree, I have two schools have thought of
this because I thought about this lot. I totally agree
everything you said. I agree with. I personally am so
bad when it comes to like directly making money that
even now that I have my own telehealth practice for
perimenopause and menopause, I really think it's like twenty six
years of being dumbed down by the insurance companies where
I'm like, well, I just got to show up and
like condition what interurance gives me. So I'm still conditioned

(46:37):
that I'm so uncomfortable like say, my knowledge and my practice.
So that's one part where I wouldn't be good at
doing it. But God bless Mary Color. Because she's doing
it valdly.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
We're all we yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Reason, while it took us a while.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
Too, it took a lot comfortable. The reason I really
hard Yeah yeah, well, And the only other reason I
kind of I wish clinicians didn't sell products like that.
I'm glad they do. I wish they didn't only because
I think it provides such low hanging fruit for the
naysayers to fight against it and somehow try to discredit us,

(47:14):
and then we have to battrack and explain why. So
that's the only reason I care about it, And because
the truth is we know this. The supplement industry is
a trillion dollar industry, right, and so unfortunately, even good
quality vitamin decreating that she's selling is going to get
lumped together. So in her individual case, I think it's
completely valid that she does it. I'm only sad because

(47:35):
it's such an easy sound bite for people to attack
her and trickle down to all the clinicians. Look at
them trying to make money when in reality, again, most
of the supplements that are be sold are not what
she's selling, right, So it's very different.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
And I think sometimes when somebody a doctor is selling something.
You can almost lose faith in what they're saying then,
or kind of take it with a grain of salt,
because often they'll be pushing it. But in general, she
doesn't see. But what do you do in your spare

(48:14):
time other than you know, take care of your family
and try to get a little bit of exercise. Is
there anything that you enjoy?

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Yeah, I mean now that I'm working less in the office,
which is again bizarre to me, but I love it.
It's been actually three years and I'm still like, oh
my god, is this real. I mean, it sounds vapid.
I really love spending time with my friends. Like the
thought that after twenty three years of ruling work, now
for the last three years, I can actually go to
coffee after I go to a like exercise twice a

(48:47):
week is like bizarre to me. I like, I mean
tomorrow this week, I won't because this week I'll be
on call actually twenty four to seven from Tomorrow night
until the following Monday night. But then the in between
three weeks, I'm like, oh my god, I to actually
like go to coffee. I actually really do enjoy fashion,
so sadly I shop a lot. I mean, I joke
sadly happily for me, but I should curtail that what

(49:08):
I don't have yet is enough of. And I've been
working on it, a true artistic a true artistic hobby
like needle pointing or painting or cross stitch or jewelry making,
and I really would love to. But my life, probably
like all of yours, is really erratic. Like there's nothing
organized about my life because one week out of four weeks,

(49:29):
I'm on call. Every Tuesday, I'm in the office unless
i'm on call, unless I'm away. I travel because now
I speak at different conferences at times and things like that.
And then I have the three kids and the two dogs.
My parents live next door and they're in their eighties.
So nothing about I've no one week that looks like
any other week, even like when I try to go
to the gym on Mondays and Fridays with a personal trainer,

(49:51):
like it depends on the week, like this week, I'll
go tomorrow, but I won't go on Friday because I'm
on call. So I need more true hobbies that I
actually dedicate myself to. But I just don't. I mean,
I read a ton but as a joke, I read
a ton of like ten percent of like thirty books
at any given moment that are mostly mindset books. I
don't read a lot of fiction, and I almost never

(50:12):
completely read an entire book, so that's some of the
fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
I was saying that to my friends, my little group
of Irish girlfriends here the other day. I tend to
like withdraw when life is really busy, and I don't
answer text I don't reply to emails, I don't see
my friends. And I found myself a few weeks ago
feeling really like almost low, and I thought about it
and I was like, I haven't seen my girlfriends in

(50:40):
so long, and that brings me so much joy. So
we organized a little get together and I said to them, like,
this is my joy. I just love being with you
guys and chatting. And I leave and I go home,
and I feel like it can be a better mom
and a better partner because I did that.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
And I really, again, to anyone listening, any young women
who feel bad if they really love being with their friends.
I mean, I always say, of course I love my children,
of course I love being with my family. I probably
equally love being with my closest friends because they see
me in a different way. They know me in a
different way. And you know, another thing I talked about
at Pinnacle with the audience was I really really hope

(51:24):
for women that they can learn to be open and transparent.
And I said, it doesn't mean they all have to
be public. Like, I feel pretty confident in being public
about a lot of the things in my life, like
my weight, then things like that. Anything I've been given
permission by my family to say but about them, not
about me, else to talk about anything about myself. But
so I don't think people have to be very public,
but I do wish women learn to be more open, right,

(51:46):
because when we're open with each other, not only does
it forge relationships, but then everyone else around you is like,
oh my god, I feel the same way. And then
you never feel alone because you're like, oh, everyone feels like,
you know, they hate whatever.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Today, I feel like crap, you know, they.

Speaker 4 (52:02):
Feel like crap, Yeah, I hate their husband whatever it is. Yeah, rare,
I know, I know.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yeah, poor helpies.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
I know. Well, I mean kind of their fault.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Most of the time. I mean, I'm always like, it's
never my fault they're talking about.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Yeah exactly, I mean we're often not wrong.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Never, very rarely, and I do say I'm sorry, I
just don't ever have to say because they'm not ever wrong.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I would say it if I were wrong.
But at the end of the time, you.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Know, where are you speaking next?

Speaker 4 (52:43):
So Women in Medicine in Chicago and September, doctor Shika Jane,
who's an oncologist, puts together a great conference that I
have not yet been to, but the roster is really interesting,
so I'm going to speak there and that that is
the big one so far. I actually have a couple
of fun I don't know if you guys have done this,
but I'm getting asked a little bit more to speak
at companies which will have me do like a lunch

(53:04):
and learn where I'll do like a one hour zoom
to talk to their employees about whatever. But in this
case it tends to be perimenopause and menopause. And I
love that. It's really fun. I mean because I think
that we all, the four of us, are like, hasn't
everyone heard about vaginal estrogen by now? I mean, everyone
says I've listening to us, but there's still millions of
educated women who have not heard about the simplest interventions

(53:28):
like vaginal estrogen.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
So I'd love to do our local pharmacies, I mean
some of them. I'd like to just I just come
lecture you for like a half an hour.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Yes, can we educate you on why you should not
be stopping us from doing the things you know how
to do? Yesh? Yeah, yes, they're really fun.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Do you have any closing thoughts? Yes?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Where can where can everyone find you and follow you?

Speaker 4 (53:52):
And so you can find me on Instagram? Mostly I'm
not over on the other things very much. And it's
doctor g so d R s h I E. Vag
which I laugh. I was born with the last name
Go Frannie, and my you know in doctor Shiva g
is vag Ledge and on my website, my website is

(54:12):
the same doctorshivag dot com. And if anyone needs telehealth
telehealth menopause, perrymenopause. And it's really meant to be for
people who truly want to do a deep guve. I
always say, if it's someone who's like, oh, just tell
me what to do, just tell me what to do
and I'll do it, That's wonderful, but that's not what
I really want. People who want to collaborate and really
like learn because my hope is that the small group

(54:34):
of people I can teach because there's only one of me,
and I'm giving them a lot of time because I'm
doing My membership is four zooms throughout the year and
unlimited messaging. But I'm hoping then they export the message
to their friends and family who don't have access to
people like the four of us. So it's for anyone
who is licensed, who is living or has access to
a Connecticut of Florida address, and that's you can find

(54:55):
that on my website.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
So yeah, Well, thanks for being here her with us today, Shiva.
It's been an absolute joy having you m

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