July 4, 2025 • 33 mins
In this enlightening episode, Scott Allan interviews Chris McKinnell, grandson of the legendary paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren. They delve into the legacy of the Warren family, the true purpose of the Warren Museum, and the mission of the Warren Legacy Foundation. Chris shares insights on the dangers of public displays of paranormal artifacts, particularly the infamous Annabelle doll, and discusses the importance of healthy skepticism in understanding paranormal phenomena. He emphasizes the need for compassion and education in dealing with the supernatural, while also addressing the misconceptions surrounding his grandparents' work and the Amityville Horror case.
Takeaways
Chapters00:00 The Mysterious Fire and Annabelle's Arrival
01:50 The Legacy of the Warren Family
05:11 The True Purpose of the Warren Museum
10:10 The Dangers of Annabelle and Other Artifacts
15:16 Understanding the Unknown and Human Energy
20:36 Protecting the Warren Legacy
25:28 Final Thoughts and Tools for Understanding Paranormal Phenomena
About Scott
WEB:
Want to connect with Spirit, get a private reading, or attend a live event? Visit mediumscottallan.com for bookings, event updates, and more.
PATREON:
If you love these stories and want to support more episodes, check out my Patreon for behind-the-scenes content, bonus Q&As, and special perks for supporters.
Scott's Patreon
Takeaways
- The Warren Museum was intended as a protective space, not a tourist attraction.
- Chris McKinnell leads the Warren Legacy Foundation to help those troubled by the paranormal.
- The foundation aims to educate and provide support for spiritual crises.
- Annabelle's public display raises concerns about safety and psychological vulnerability.
- Healthy skepticism is essential when dealing with paranormal phenomena.
- The Warrens were dedicated to helping people without charging for their services.
- Misconceptions about the Warrens' work often stem from sensationalized media portrayals.
- The Amityville Horror case remains a topic of controversy and speculation.
- Understanding paranormal experiences requires looking beyond fear and superstition.
- Setting spiritual boundaries is crucial when dealing with supernatural entities.
Chapters00:00 The Mysterious Fire and Annabelle's Arrival
01:50 The Legacy of the Warren Family
05:11 The True Purpose of the Warren Museum
10:10 The Dangers of Annabelle and Other Artifacts
15:16 Understanding the Unknown and Human Energy
20:36 Protecting the Warren Legacy
25:28 Final Thoughts and Tools for Understanding Paranormal Phenomena
About Scott
WEB:
Want to connect with Spirit, get a private reading, or attend a live event? Visit mediumscottallan.com for bookings, event updates, and more.
PATREON:
If you love these stories and want to support more episodes, check out my Patreon for behind-the-scenes content, bonus Q&As, and special perks for supporters.
Scott's Patreon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
In the early hours of May fifteenth, twenty twenty five,
flames devoured the historic Nottaway Plantation in Louisiana, just days
after Annabel, the world's most famous haunted doll, arrived in
New Orleans for a paranormal tour. Across social media, rumors
spread like wildfire. Was Annabel to blame or was this
(00:38):
tragedy simply the result of faulty wiring. Tonight, in this
special bonus episode, we dig into the facts, the legends,
and the legacy of the Warren family, guardians of the
paranormal and truth seekers for generations. My guest tonight is
Chris McKinnel, the grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren, the
legendary husband and wife team who became the world's most
(01:00):
well known paranormal investigators. For decades. Ed Lorraine traveled the
globe investigating haunted houses, demonic possessions, and unexplained phenomena. Ed
a self taught demonologist, and Lorraine, a gifted clairvoyant and medium,
dedicated their lives to helping families tormented by forces they
(01:21):
couldn't understand, always with compassion, integrity, and an unwavering belief
in the power of good over evil. Their cases inspired books, documentaries,
and blockbuster films, but their true legacy is one of service,
protecting the vulnerable and seeking the truth, no matter how unsettling.
(01:45):
Chris has carried that legacy forward as head of the
War and Legacy Foundation, charged with protecting both people and
reputation from the dangers of myth, misinformation, and the unknown.
But when it comes to the infamous objects collected by
his grandparents, especially Annabelle, the story gets more complicated. I'm
(02:08):
Scott Allen and this is a bonus episode of the
Enlightened Life podcast, where we investigate the mysteries that shape
our world and the people who dedicate their lives to
understanding them. Let's begin our investigation, Chris, thanks for joining
(02:40):
us today for this bonus episode. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Of course, anything your friend happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thanks Chris. I appreciate that you know your family's legacy
is built on courage, compassion, and truth. And you've often
spoken about the real purpose of the Warren Museum not
as a place for curiosity seekers, but is something much
more serious? Can you share what the museum was truly
meant to be and why that matters now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely. You know, I think the worst part of my
grandparents' legacy is that my grandfather was a little bit
of a marketing genius and he called it a museum.
It never ever was open to the public. It was
always by special invitation only with specific instructions on how
to protect yourself. You should never go in there and
(03:29):
touch anything. You should be respectful. It was not a
tourist attraction, and it was a prison. It was a
place to protect people from those things. It was there
to educate people, nothing more. What's going on today with
many of the objects traveling around the country. Yeah, that
(03:50):
concerns me tremendously.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's dangerous and we're going to get to that as
we as we go through the episode. But for listeners
who may be new to the foundation, can you share
your mission and how you honor your grandparents' legacy.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Of course, and it's not just me, it's people like you.
The Foundation is made up of volunteers from all over
the world who freely give their time and their energy
to helping people who believe that they're troubled by the paranormal.
I say believing because many of the people who contact
us are not necessarily being bothered by something, but we're
(04:29):
they're also to educate, not just to lead them through
spiritual crises, not just to deal with ghosts or inhuman
entities it may manifest, but also to help them feel
safe in their home when they hear knockings on the
door or walking in the hallway. It isn't necessarily something terrifying.
(04:50):
It normally isn't, and it's important that we are sharing
that as well. We started the foundation my grandmother and
I after the first Conjuring movie came out. It was
we were getting hammered by requests from all over the
world for help, and my grandfather had started the New
England Society for Psychic Research back in nineteen fifty two.
(05:13):
But you know, overseas, people don't know New England really,
they do know the warrants and that's what they'll associate with.
So I talked to my grandmother about our expanding the mission.
We were supposed to be under Nesper, but it didn't
work out. Unfortunately. My grandmother loved the idea. She wanted
(05:33):
me to move forward with this and so I did
with her blessing, and it has been interesting. We've been
doing this for about twelve years now, thirteen years and
we've managed to help thousands of people all over the world.
I'm very proud of the people who have been a
part of this.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So and I know, you know you said it before
and you said it again today that the museum was
never made meant to be a museum, It was meant
to be a prison. What do you think do you
think your grandparents intended when it started? And you know,
I know you said he was a marketing genius. He
called it a museum, but was that really wasn't his
(06:13):
intention to have people come in at any point in time?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
No, Actually, it's in their art studio. My grandparents were
artists and after World War Two, my grandfather went to
art school with the gi Bill and they my grandmother
designed the entire house that they lived in, and they
had an art studio built on the side, off to
(06:37):
the side, I should say, out in the back. And
over the years they were being confronted with objects that
had very negative energy that shouldn't be left in people's
homes at that time, they thought, where can we put
these things? What can we do with these things? And
they ended up bringing them home and putting them in there.
(06:57):
Now I would tell people differently today. I say, take
it far from any home, any home, Dig a hole
a foot deep, bury the object, consecrate the ground in
the way your faith tells you to do so, whether
it's holy water, blessed salt, Florida water, whatever did you
do and then never returned to it, and that will
(07:19):
protect you from these things. But over the years they
kept adding more and more objects. There's certainly several objects
in there that belonged to cases of mind, but it
was not meant to be an attraction. And I'll say, honestly,
a lot of those objects are not dangerous. I brought
(07:40):
back some fetish dolls from Africa. I was in the
peace grow over there, and I brought back a dagger
to tour ache daggers, and they ended up in the
museum just because my grandfather thought they were cool and
they were an objective for talking about these things and
explaining things to people. It wasn't that everything in there
(08:02):
has to be deadly.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Right, right. Can we talk about Annabelle for just a minute,
because there's a lot of curiosity right now about her,
and it seems to be at the center of so
much attention. Can you clarify who owns Annabelle and the
other artifacts that are in the museum and what your
role is in relation to them, because I think people
(08:25):
get very confused between Nesper, the Warren Foundation, the museum,
and they're just not sure what's what.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, And it's embarrassing. It really is, because in the
paranormal world, for people who don't follow it for some
reason that I will never understand, everybody fights with everyone.
It's like it's such a small pond and they're all
afraid that if somebody gets ahead, then they're not never
(08:55):
going to be famous or something. I've never never looked
for fame, you know, in the twenty when in my twenties,
I was in books and I was on lecture tours
and you know, the talk talk show circuit, and I
learned very quickly I didn't like that. The only reason
you see me out here today is because it's a
(09:16):
necessary evil to let people know who we are so
that they can find us and get the help they need.
But the museum and everything that belonged to my grandparents
belongs to my mother and her husband, Tony Spirait. My
grandmother didn't necessarily want that to be the plan She
(09:38):
had actually asked all of us what we wanted when
she passed, and all I wanted was a cuckoo clock
in the family photo albums and one painting. She was
convinced to do it this way and that everything would
be redistributed. That never happened, of course.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
When I presented the plan to the foundation to Tony,
as he had asked me to do, he then blindsided
me and said, this is my time. You don't do
anything until I die. I was like, Tony, you've never
been on a case in your life. Mom's terrified of
the paranormal. I'm trying to help people. And he said,
(10:19):
you should have asked me what I wanted to do. Okay,
So that's why we're no longer part of that organization. Honestly,
I'm okay with that because what I'm seeing now is
so against what my grandparents believed in. And I know
this for a fact. They have been visiting people and
telling people how they feel, including people who are very
(10:43):
very good at what they do, and I know they're upset.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And you mean psychically psychically your grandparents right through.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, they've come to meeting messages more than anyone, but
my grandfather has also shown up. He just hasn't been
around in like three years, almost three years. But the
whole like stacking bottles of alcohol around annabel and then
selling them for one thousand dollars or something each, that's
I just don't understand them. Yeah, I don't understand that,
(11:16):
and saying make sure you get a blessed before you
drink it. It's so crass. And now these things are
on display and they're on tour and I'm being yelled at,
which is why I've unfortunately had to come out against
my own family and say something because I do not
like being attacked for something I haven't done, and ethically,
(11:39):
it's important for me to warn the public.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah. Well, and it's funny because that was my next
next point was, you know you have been vocal in
your opposition to Annabelle leaving the museum and going on tour,
and I know you believe that it's dangerous and you
just explained that, But why why is it dangerous? What
could happen? You know if these objects are moved or
displayed publicly?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Okay, Well, you started out this interview talking about the
plantation burning down right right. That has nothing to do
with annabel that was sixty miles outside of New Orleans
where she was. It was excuse me even I say
she on occasion, and I shouldn't. The danger comes when
you interact with its energy, when you get up close,
(12:23):
and there are no safeguards where Annabelle is being taken anymore.
People are being urged to touch the glass enclosure with
annabel and my grandfather. There's a world famous sign that
people duplicate everywhere positively, do not open. And yet they're
(12:48):
making it into a sideshow attraction, and people are affected
by this. Even if, even.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
If this is not the real Annabelle, there are enough
people who are cycled logically vulnerable that if they believe
that it's Annabille and it's not, they can still get hurt.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
We can manifest demons just with our own thoughts, and
they can take on a life of their own. They
can be deadly.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Do you do you think that the doll is not
Annabelle the one is traveling I'm talking about, or do
you think they're leaving the original at home? Or do
you think that it probably is the correct or you know,
the real deal. Yeah, there's no way to know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I've looked at it again and again. It does not
look right to me. But then again, you know, maybe
they got it cleaned. Maybe you know the way it's
being positioned now it's different. I mean, it is just
a raggedy and doll. It's hard for me to tell
for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And if you're moving it, it's hapt to move in
the you know, in the case and whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know, it's never moved on its own since it
came into my grandparents possession. That all all of those
stories of Annabelle escaping or Annabelle moving when my grandmother died,
none of that's real.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, So in your view, should Annabelle or actually,
let's just talk about any of them, any of the
artifacts that are in that, you know, call it a museum.
Should they ever leave the museum?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
No? Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
If you if you somehow got control of them today,
what would you do? Would you would you go and
dig a hole, would you find a place to bury them?
Or what do you think you would do with them?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
You know, I've had different thoughts on that over the years.
I thought about creating a safe environment where they can
be displayed for teaching, But my grandfather was notoriously bad
at taking or keeping records, So I'm not sure that
it would be worthwhile, right, and perhaps the back ho
(14:55):
would be the better way of going with it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, having said that, just am I saying something like
that can pretty much guarantee I will never come into
possession of the artifacts from the music.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, you just did it to yourself right there there.
I get it. I get it. And you know, we
did talk about the Plantation fire and how do you
separate fact from rumor in moments like this, you know,
and we know that she did do that if she
didn't cause it, But that's was the talk.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I mean, that was the hype, as well as helping
a bunch of prisoners escape from the New Orleans jail,
which of course that didn't happen. Either. It can cause
tornadoes wherever it visited, or any of these other disasters
that are part of life. Healthy skepticism is a good
(15:46):
way of looking at it. And also, I know this thing.
I've lived with this thing my whole life since I
was three, I think, no. Six, And it's like dealing
with the poisonous snake. You have to get close to
it for it to hurt you. It isn't something that
is reaching out over thousands of miles, has it? Yes,
(16:09):
it has caused harm, but that was when it was
not locked down. My cousin Bray just shared a story.
I had never heard this before. The Marin. My grandmother
was a Maran and the Morans would get together for
Christmas Eve every year, and they went over to my
grandparents' house and Annabelle was sitting in a chair and
(16:33):
the kids are all playing around it, and my grandfather saying,
don't touch that, it's a demonic doll. My aunt Gert
heard that. She said, we're out of here. Leave What
are you doing leaving that out? So I couldn't believe
that they didn't know how to lock down this thing
at first. And yes, it did cause harm for a while,
(16:53):
for like five years. But once they learned how to
lock it down and keep it in that box, rounded
by holy items, surrounded by prayers and blessed salt, then
it was fine. It was contained, it was bound. Now
not so much.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, why do you think people are so drawn to
these kinds of supernatural explanations?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Human beings are natural storytellers and we hate the unknown.
Just go all the way back to our ancestors Paleolithic
ancestors looking up the night skies and seeing distant campfires.
From their ancestors, they had to explain things to themselves,
(17:39):
the mysteries that they couldn't understand. We would rather believe
in the devil than be faced with the unknown. The
devil is something we understand. The devil is something we
could fight against, but the unknown is too scary. And
this is what I've seen play out again and again,
and I've been doing this forty four years. We will
(18:00):
label things according to our cultural and spiritual beliefs, and
our perception can create a reality. And I am not
saying these things are just in your mind. They're not.
They are manifestations. They are real. They are made of
real energy. But it's your energy. I'm not talking about
human spirits. I'm talking about what we call inhuman spirits
(18:22):
or demons or many other types of inhuman spirits around
the world, Gin and so forth. These are manifestations created
by us, by our human energy, and they can take
on a life completely on their own.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So what do you see as the real risks? You know,
whether it's spiritually, psychologically, or physically, of treating these objects
as entertainment or is tourist attractions.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well, there's a small part of me that really says,
if it's just entertainment, people are going to get a
thrill out of it. It's more like a carnival attraction,
and they're less the danger for themselves. They're not taking
it seriously. But there are enough people who know better
who are going there, and if they really knew better,
they wouldn't be going there. So let me take that
(19:11):
back a little bit. They're fascinated and they want to
see that dangerous thing. I think the movies, for all
the good it's done in allowing us to get the
word out there that we're here to help more, I
think it's turned this into something that is well, anybody
who's watching the conjuring films thinking you're watching reality is
(19:35):
terribly mistaken. These are Hollywood fantasies, that's all they really are.
There are cases that are behind those, but those are
not You're not looking at the true story ever, not
even in documentaries most of the time.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So what would you say to people who think that
the doll is just really nothing, it's just legend or
hype and the dangers either aren't real or overly exaggerated.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Good, that's great. I'm happy for them. Your skepticism can
be your shield. I'm not saying that you should go
and pick it up because you're somebody who's a negative person.
If you've got a lot of underlying vulnerabilities, then yeah,
maybe interacting with that energy is not healthy for you.
But just healthy skepticism is a defense. You're the last
(20:27):
person to be open to phenomena in a home. That's
why you can have ten different families live in a
house and nothing ever happens, and then that one family
moves in and all hell breaks close.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I want to switch gears for
just a minute, because I you know, I never met
your grandparents. I didn't know them, I didn't know you
at the time, but I feel like I know a
little bit about them through you, at least of their
integrity and their personality, just how you've described them. How
do you protect their reputation and the seriousness of their
(21:02):
work in this age of viral rumors and internet speculation,
Because I think one of the hardest things is listening
to people say things about people you love that you
can't necessarily, they can't defend themselves, and you know you
knew them probably better than anybody else. So you know what,
what would you like people to know about them?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, to answer your first part, how do I deal
with that? I learned decades ago that you can't deal
with trolls. You can't give them oxygen because it just
makes the fire grow bigger. I've I tried, you know.
I used to go online and try to defend my grandparents,
and I was accused of being Lorraine Warren and trying
(21:44):
to do this. People who want to fight, they're going
to fight. They're going to create these stories. And I've
heard some whoppers, you know, that they're groomers, that they
that my grandfather beat my grandmother and lock her in
the basement and all these other crazy things. My grandfather
ever did something like that, I'd have planted him in
the ground long before his death. My grandmother was my angel.
(22:07):
There was no chance that was ever gonna happen. Yeah,
all I can tell you is for the first twenty
five years that they did this work, nobody knew who
they were. They started in nineteen forty seven and it
wasn't until like seventy two, I think when the Linley
(22:28):
Street case happened in Bridgeport. That's when they became sort
of famous. It's certainly regionally famous. And then of course Amityville.
And here's the thing about Ambryville. They were invited in
by Channel five out of New York City. They were
there one day, that's all. And every photo you see
(22:52):
with my grandparents in them in Ambryville was taken by
news photographers, including that famous one of something that looks
like a child looking out of a bedroom doorway. Why
would they Why would the news fake something like that?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
You know? Right? So all these stories about it being
a hoax and all that, No, it wasn't. I've talked
to one of the Lutz boys men and he's deeply
damaged and even threatened my life because he thought of
making Amityville movies. At the time, I was studying with
the Kogi people in the Jungles of Columbia. So no,
(23:30):
I wasn't involved in any movie. I've never been involved
in any movies.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Do you think that, I mean, just off topic for
a moment, but the Amityville do you think that there
have been people living there for years now? And then
know the house sold a few times, but have you
heard anything Do you know that they're still having difficulties.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yes, I did an interview with a podcaster six years ago.
Six years ago. Yeah, he was a big podcaster, and
he's been in touch with and friends with one of
the female reporters that was in the house with my
grandparents back in the day, and she followed up with
all of the different owners and although they haven't come
(24:09):
forward publicly, they all admit that, yes, there has been
activity in the home. As a matter of fact, at
that time, six years ago, the house had just been
on sale again, and it goes on sale like every
three years, and the woman who was selling it her
husband in his early forties. He was in great physical
(24:30):
shape and he just dropped dead, and she blamed the
house for it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I'm not saying that's what really happened. People do
just die, right, right, Yeah, yeah, but that's what she believed.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, I mean, clearly there was something happening there, right,
And you know, the movie was probably just like all
other movies, hyped up a little bit, you know, to
make you know what I mean. Sure it wasn't exactly
like that, but same.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Thing with the book. But you know, the thing is
George and Kathy Lutz never made a penny off of
the book or the movies or anything nothing ever. But
you know, I want to get back to your earlier
question about who my grandparents really were, and the part
I want to mention is they would drop anything, everything
to help someone, and they would do that for free.
(25:19):
They never charged anybody to help them, and neither do we.
One thing we do different than my grandparents. Excuse me
on my sneeze. We don't publicize the detailed private details
of the people we help. Back in the day, I
didn't like that my grandparents did that, so my grandfather
and I would get arguments about it because I saw
the damage. And you and I have actually spoken about
(25:41):
one case where we kind of cross paths and didn't
know it at the time, but I understand in retrospect
now there was no Internet, they didn't have the freedom
to keep that confidentiality. With some of the big cases.
They had to do that to let people know where
(26:03):
to come for help. And also, I'll be honest when
you're dealing with the Catholic Church, especially even though the
Vatican will admit, yes, absolutely, this is a real problem
and we need help. The local archdiocese are different, and
each one of them is its own separate kingdom, and
(26:27):
the archbishops are very very careful about whether or not
they'll get involved in cases, and my grandparents would often
use publicity as a way of forcing shaming the church
into helping.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Really well, yeah, you know, I'd love to just have
you chat for a minute about how people know that
they are with the real war and Legacy Foundation. Because
you have the foundation, there's another foundation that's either started
or has started that sounds like it. There's also you know, nesper.
(27:05):
How do they know that they've got the real deal?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Contact me. I'm easy to get a hold of. I'm
not some celebrity or something. I'm just a guy and
you can get a hold of me, or you can
go to Warren Legacy Foundation dot com. That's where we
have a link where you can ask for help. We
ask you to fill out a form so we have
a better sense of what we're dealing with before we
even talk, and then we set up an intake appointment.
(27:32):
We find out what we're dealing with so that we
can help you. Half of our job is really understanding
the problem. From there, we can develop a plan and
work with you and fix it, but first we have
to understand it, and that means we need to ask
hard questions things like is there drug and alcohol abuse
(27:53):
in the family, Is there a history of mental illness?
Is there domestic abuse or violence or just strife in
the home. And it's not that those are your explanation,
but those can be the doorway to these things getting
into your home. And if we don't deal with the
problem holistically, sure we can do a spiritual pleansing in
(28:16):
the home. We can knock things out for a day
or two, but you're just going to keep opening that
door again. We need to work on all of it.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
That's right. That's right. You got to fix not necessarily
what's causing it, but you've got to work on all
of the pieces together to get a exactly favorable outcome.
And that makes sense. Sometimes when I do this show,
I'd like to do sort of a I call it
a speed round or sort of a word association. I'd
like to give you a word or two and see
(28:46):
what's the first thing that pops in your head when
I say that. Say, this isn't a few, just a
few of them. So here we go, Annabelle Pain in
the ass that's five words. No, that's full words. The
most haunted place you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Oh wow, Lee, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
There one thing that scares you.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Somebody? I love being hurt?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
How about the Warren object that you respect the most?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
My grandmother's rosary.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
The most misunderstood paranormal concept, demons. What's one thing you
wish people knew about your grandparents?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
They were truly good people.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And lastly, the best advice either Ed or Lorraine gave
to you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
My grandmother said, like attracts. Like if you put out
positive energy, you'll attract something positive. If you put out
negative energy, you'll attract something negative.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, you know. As we wrap up, I want
to give you an opportunity to just really chat about
anything we haven't talked about today that you want to
make sure people understand when they're listening. You know. It
could be about your grandparents, It can be about the foundation,
it can be about really anything. But something that you
want people to take with them from today's discussion.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Actually is none of those things. I want to give
them some tools to understand what they may be going through. First,
Number one, look at what's actually happening. Don't let your
fear guide you look at the actual phenomenon. So you're
hearing something that doesn't mean it's negative or evil, it's
(30:42):
probably Or your keys go missing for two hours and
then they're right back on the table. You look ten times,
that just means somebody's trying to get your attention. That's
not evil. That could actually be a beautiful experience if
you weren't so afraid, and if you understood what you
were dealing with. Second, treat things respectfully. Learn how to
(31:04):
set spiritual boundaries, just like you said personal boundaries in
your own life. You know, if someone's getting too close
to you, you say, listen, you're too close, please back up.
Do the same thing with a spirit. If they're bothering
you and you don't let them know that they're bothering you,
then you say, respectfully, respectfully but firmly stop. You may
(31:28):
not bother me here. This is my home. If you're
going to be here, be here quietly. Do not interact
with me, Do not interact with my family. I want
nothing to do with you. Otherwise, you leave. Nine times
out of ten. That's all you're gonna need to do.
If you're dealing with somebody who's disturbed a spirit that's disturbed,
(31:50):
or a spirit that's so desperate that they're not leaving,
or just they wear a jackass in life. That's when
you're gonna need to see people like Scott and I
and get some help. So don't let fear guide you,
don't let superstition guide you. I know for a fact
(32:11):
the phenomena is real, but I don't believe the superstitious
explanations that we give to it. And I think that's
a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It's wonderful, Chris. Thanks for your honesty and your dedication,
and also for sharing the truth about your grandparents and
their mission and what they were really like and listeners.
For more on the Warren Legacy Foundation, visit us at
Warren Legacy Foundation dot com. And that is the real one.
That's where you'll find it. Just look for Chris. He's
down on the page. Scroll down a little bit, and
(32:39):
to learn more about what I do, visit Mediumscott Allen
dot com to book a reading, explore events, and catch
up on regular and bonus episodes. Stay curious, stay safe,
and join us next time right here on the Night
Life Podcast. Thanks for joining us.
In the early hours of May fifteenth, twenty twenty five,
flames devoured the historic Nottaway Plantation in Louisiana, just days
after Annabel, the world's most famous haunted doll, arrived in
New Orleans for a paranormal tour. Across social media, rumors
spread like wildfire. Was Annabel to blame or was this
(00:38):
tragedy simply the result of faulty wiring. Tonight, in this
special bonus episode, we dig into the facts, the legends,
and the legacy of the Warren family, guardians of the
paranormal and truth seekers for generations. My guest tonight is
Chris McKinnel, the grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren, the
legendary husband and wife team who became the world's most
(01:00):
well known paranormal investigators. For decades. Ed Lorraine traveled the
globe investigating haunted houses, demonic possessions, and unexplained phenomena. Ed
a self taught demonologist, and Lorraine, a gifted clairvoyant and medium,
dedicated their lives to helping families tormented by forces they
(01:21):
couldn't understand, always with compassion, integrity, and an unwavering belief
in the power of good over evil. Their cases inspired books, documentaries,
and blockbuster films, but their true legacy is one of service,
protecting the vulnerable and seeking the truth, no matter how unsettling.
(01:45):
Chris has carried that legacy forward as head of the
War and Legacy Foundation, charged with protecting both people and
reputation from the dangers of myth, misinformation, and the unknown.
But when it comes to the infamous objects collected by
his grandparents, especially Annabelle, the story gets more complicated. I'm
(02:08):
Scott Allen and this is a bonus episode of the
Enlightened Life podcast, where we investigate the mysteries that shape
our world and the people who dedicate their lives to
understanding them. Let's begin our investigation, Chris, thanks for joining
(02:40):
us today for this bonus episode. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Of course, anything your friend happy to do it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thanks Chris. I appreciate that you know your family's legacy
is built on courage, compassion, and truth. And you've often
spoken about the real purpose of the Warren Museum not
as a place for curiosity seekers, but is something much
more serious? Can you share what the museum was truly
meant to be and why that matters now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Absolutely. You know, I think the worst part of my
grandparents' legacy is that my grandfather was a little bit
of a marketing genius and he called it a museum.
It never ever was open to the public. It was
always by special invitation only with specific instructions on how
to protect yourself. You should never go in there and
(03:29):
touch anything. You should be respectful. It was not a
tourist attraction, and it was a prison. It was a
place to protect people from those things. It was there
to educate people, nothing more. What's going on today with
many of the objects traveling around the country. Yeah, that
(03:50):
concerns me tremendously.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
It's dangerous and we're going to get to that as
we as we go through the episode. But for listeners
who may be new to the foundation, can you share
your mission and how you honor your grandparents' legacy.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Of course, and it's not just me, it's people like you.
The Foundation is made up of volunteers from all over
the world who freely give their time and their energy
to helping people who believe that they're troubled by the paranormal.
I say believing because many of the people who contact
us are not necessarily being bothered by something, but we're
(04:29):
they're also to educate, not just to lead them through
spiritual crises, not just to deal with ghosts or inhuman
entities it may manifest, but also to help them feel
safe in their home when they hear knockings on the
door or walking in the hallway. It isn't necessarily something terrifying.
(04:50):
It normally isn't, and it's important that we are sharing
that as well. We started the foundation my grandmother and
I after the first Conjuring movie came out. It was
we were getting hammered by requests from all over the
world for help, and my grandfather had started the New
England Society for Psychic Research back in nineteen fifty two.
(05:13):
But you know, overseas, people don't know New England really,
they do know the warrants and that's what they'll associate with.
So I talked to my grandmother about our expanding the mission.
We were supposed to be under Nesper, but it didn't
work out. Unfortunately. My grandmother loved the idea. She wanted
(05:33):
me to move forward with this and so I did
with her blessing, and it has been interesting. We've been
doing this for about twelve years now, thirteen years and
we've managed to help thousands of people all over the world.
I'm very proud of the people who have been a
part of this.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So and I know, you know you said it before
and you said it again today that the museum was
never made meant to be a museum, It was meant
to be a prison. What do you think do you
think your grandparents intended when it started? And you know,
I know you said he was a marketing genius. He
called it a museum, but was that really wasn't his
(06:13):
intention to have people come in at any point in time?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
No, Actually, it's in their art studio. My grandparents were
artists and after World War Two, my grandfather went to
art school with the gi Bill and they my grandmother
designed the entire house that they lived in, and they
had an art studio built on the side, off to
(06:37):
the side, I should say, out in the back. And
over the years they were being confronted with objects that
had very negative energy that shouldn't be left in people's
homes at that time, they thought, where can we put
these things? What can we do with these things? And
they ended up bringing them home and putting them in there.
(06:57):
Now I would tell people differently today. I say, take
it far from any home, any home, Dig a hole
a foot deep, bury the object, consecrate the ground in
the way your faith tells you to do so, whether
it's holy water, blessed salt, Florida water, whatever did you
do and then never returned to it, and that will
(07:19):
protect you from these things. But over the years they
kept adding more and more objects. There's certainly several objects
in there that belonged to cases of mind, but it
was not meant to be an attraction. And I'll say, honestly,
a lot of those objects are not dangerous. I brought
(07:40):
back some fetish dolls from Africa. I was in the
peace grow over there, and I brought back a dagger
to tour ache daggers, and they ended up in the
museum just because my grandfather thought they were cool and
they were an objective for talking about these things and
explaining things to people. It wasn't that everything in there
(08:02):
has to be deadly.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Right, right. Can we talk about Annabelle for just a minute,
because there's a lot of curiosity right now about her,
and it seems to be at the center of so
much attention. Can you clarify who owns Annabelle and the
other artifacts that are in the museum and what your
role is in relation to them, because I think people
(08:25):
get very confused between Nesper, the Warren Foundation, the museum,
and they're just not sure what's what.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, And it's embarrassing. It really is, because in the
paranormal world, for people who don't follow it for some
reason that I will never understand, everybody fights with everyone.
It's like it's such a small pond and they're all
afraid that if somebody gets ahead, then they're not never
(08:55):
going to be famous or something. I've never never looked
for fame, you know, in the twenty when in my twenties,
I was in books and I was on lecture tours
and you know, the talk talk show circuit, and I
learned very quickly I didn't like that. The only reason
you see me out here today is because it's a
(09:16):
necessary evil to let people know who we are so
that they can find us and get the help they need.
But the museum and everything that belonged to my grandparents
belongs to my mother and her husband, Tony Spirait. My
grandmother didn't necessarily want that to be the plan She
(09:38):
had actually asked all of us what we wanted when
she passed, and all I wanted was a cuckoo clock
in the family photo albums and one painting. She was
convinced to do it this way and that everything would
be redistributed. That never happened, of course.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
When I presented the plan to the foundation to Tony,
as he had asked me to do, he then blindsided
me and said, this is my time. You don't do
anything until I die. I was like, Tony, you've never
been on a case in your life. Mom's terrified of
the paranormal. I'm trying to help people. And he said,
(10:19):
you should have asked me what I wanted to do. Okay,
So that's why we're no longer part of that organization. Honestly,
I'm okay with that because what I'm seeing now is
so against what my grandparents believed in. And I know
this for a fact. They have been visiting people and
telling people how they feel, including people who are very
(10:43):
very good at what they do, and I know they're upset.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And you mean psychically psychically your grandparents right through.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, they've come to meeting messages more than anyone, but
my grandfather has also shown up. He just hasn't been
around in like three years, almost three years. But the
whole like stacking bottles of alcohol around annabel and then
selling them for one thousand dollars or something each, that's
I just don't understand them. Yeah, I don't understand that,
(11:16):
and saying make sure you get a blessed before you
drink it. It's so crass. And now these things are
on display and they're on tour and I'm being yelled at,
which is why I've unfortunately had to come out against
my own family and say something because I do not
like being attacked for something I haven't done, and ethically,
(11:39):
it's important for me to warn the public.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah. Well, and it's funny because that was my next
next point was, you know you have been vocal in
your opposition to Annabelle leaving the museum and going on tour,
and I know you believe that it's dangerous and you
just explained that, But why why is it dangerous? What
could happen? You know if these objects are moved or
displayed publicly?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Okay, Well, you started out this interview talking about the
plantation burning down right right. That has nothing to do
with annabel that was sixty miles outside of New Orleans
where she was. It was excuse me even I say
she on occasion, and I shouldn't. The danger comes when
you interact with its energy, when you get up close,
(12:23):
and there are no safeguards where Annabelle is being taken anymore.
People are being urged to touch the glass enclosure with
annabel and my grandfather. There's a world famous sign that
people duplicate everywhere positively, do not open. And yet they're
(12:48):
making it into a sideshow attraction, and people are affected
by this. Even if, even.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
If this is not the real Annabelle, there are enough
people who are cycled logically vulnerable that if they believe
that it's Annabille and it's not, they can still get hurt.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
We can manifest demons just with our own thoughts, and
they can take on a life of their own. They
can be deadly.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Do you do you think that the doll is not
Annabelle the one is traveling I'm talking about, or do
you think they're leaving the original at home? Or do
you think that it probably is the correct or you know,
the real deal. Yeah, there's no way to know.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I've looked at it again and again. It does not
look right to me. But then again, you know, maybe
they got it cleaned. Maybe you know the way it's
being positioned now it's different. I mean, it is just
a raggedy and doll. It's hard for me to tell
for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
And if you're moving it, it's hapt to move in
the you know, in the case and whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You know, it's never moved on its own since it
came into my grandparents possession. That all all of those
stories of Annabelle escaping or Annabelle moving when my grandmother died,
none of that's real.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, So in your view, should Annabelle or actually,
let's just talk about any of them, any of the
artifacts that are in that, you know, call it a museum.
Should they ever leave the museum?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
No? Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
If you if you somehow got control of them today,
what would you do? Would you would you go and
dig a hole, would you find a place to bury them?
Or what do you think you would do with them?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
You know, I've had different thoughts on that over the years.
I thought about creating a safe environment where they can
be displayed for teaching, But my grandfather was notoriously bad
at taking or keeping records, So I'm not sure that
it would be worthwhile, right, and perhaps the back ho
(14:55):
would be the better way of going with it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, having said that, just am I saying something like
that can pretty much guarantee I will never come into
possession of the artifacts from the music.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, you just did it to yourself right there there.
I get it. I get it. And you know, we
did talk about the Plantation fire and how do you
separate fact from rumor in moments like this, you know,
and we know that she did do that if she
didn't cause it, But that's was the talk.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I mean, that was the hype, as well as helping
a bunch of prisoners escape from the New Orleans jail,
which of course that didn't happen. Either. It can cause
tornadoes wherever it visited, or any of these other disasters
that are part of life. Healthy skepticism is a good
(15:46):
way of looking at it. And also, I know this thing.
I've lived with this thing my whole life since I
was three, I think, no. Six, And it's like dealing
with the poisonous snake. You have to get close to
it for it to hurt you. It isn't something that
is reaching out over thousands of miles, has it? Yes,
(16:09):
it has caused harm, but that was when it was
not locked down. My cousin Bray just shared a story.
I had never heard this before. The Marin. My grandmother
was a Maran and the Morans would get together for
Christmas Eve every year, and they went over to my
grandparents' house and Annabelle was sitting in a chair and
(16:33):
the kids are all playing around it, and my grandfather saying,
don't touch that, it's a demonic doll. My aunt Gert
heard that. She said, we're out of here. Leave What
are you doing leaving that out? So I couldn't believe
that they didn't know how to lock down this thing
at first. And yes, it did cause harm for a while,
(16:53):
for like five years. But once they learned how to
lock it down and keep it in that box, rounded
by holy items, surrounded by prayers and blessed salt, then
it was fine. It was contained, it was bound. Now
not so much.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, why do you think people are so drawn to
these kinds of supernatural explanations?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Human beings are natural storytellers and we hate the unknown.
Just go all the way back to our ancestors Paleolithic
ancestors looking up the night skies and seeing distant campfires.
From their ancestors, they had to explain things to themselves,
(17:39):
the mysteries that they couldn't understand. We would rather believe
in the devil than be faced with the unknown. The
devil is something we understand. The devil is something we
could fight against, but the unknown is too scary. And
this is what I've seen play out again and again,
and I've been doing this forty four years. We will
(18:00):
label things according to our cultural and spiritual beliefs, and
our perception can create a reality. And I am not
saying these things are just in your mind. They're not.
They are manifestations. They are real. They are made of
real energy. But it's your energy. I'm not talking about
human spirits. I'm talking about what we call inhuman spirits
(18:22):
or demons or many other types of inhuman spirits around
the world, Gin and so forth. These are manifestations created
by us, by our human energy, and they can take
on a life completely on their own.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So what do you see as the real risks? You know,
whether it's spiritually, psychologically, or physically, of treating these objects
as entertainment or is tourist attractions.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well, there's a small part of me that really says,
if it's just entertainment, people are going to get a
thrill out of it. It's more like a carnival attraction,
and they're less the danger for themselves. They're not taking
it seriously. But there are enough people who know better
who are going there, and if they really knew better,
they wouldn't be going there. So let me take that
(19:11):
back a little bit. They're fascinated and they want to
see that dangerous thing. I think the movies, for all
the good it's done in allowing us to get the
word out there that we're here to help more, I
think it's turned this into something that is well, anybody
who's watching the conjuring films thinking you're watching reality is
(19:35):
terribly mistaken. These are Hollywood fantasies, that's all they really are.
There are cases that are behind those, but those are
not You're not looking at the true story ever, not
even in documentaries most of the time.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So what would you say to people who think that
the doll is just really nothing, it's just legend or
hype and the dangers either aren't real or overly exaggerated.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Good, that's great. I'm happy for them. Your skepticism can
be your shield. I'm not saying that you should go
and pick it up because you're somebody who's a negative person.
If you've got a lot of underlying vulnerabilities, then yeah,
maybe interacting with that energy is not healthy for you.
But just healthy skepticism is a defense. You're the last
(20:27):
person to be open to phenomena in a home. That's
why you can have ten different families live in a
house and nothing ever happens, and then that one family
moves in and all hell breaks close.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I want to switch gears for
just a minute, because I you know, I never met
your grandparents. I didn't know them, I didn't know you
at the time, but I feel like I know a
little bit about them through you, at least of their
integrity and their personality, just how you've described them. How
do you protect their reputation and the seriousness of their
(21:02):
work in this age of viral rumors and internet speculation,
Because I think one of the hardest things is listening
to people say things about people you love that you
can't necessarily, they can't defend themselves, and you know you
knew them probably better than anybody else. So you know what,
what would you like people to know about them?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, to answer your first part, how do I deal
with that? I learned decades ago that you can't deal
with trolls. You can't give them oxygen because it just
makes the fire grow bigger. I've I tried, you know.
I used to go online and try to defend my grandparents,
and I was accused of being Lorraine Warren and trying
(21:44):
to do this. People who want to fight, they're going
to fight. They're going to create these stories. And I've
heard some whoppers, you know, that they're groomers, that they
that my grandfather beat my grandmother and lock her in
the basement and all these other crazy things. My grandfather
ever did something like that, I'd have planted him in
the ground long before his death. My grandmother was my angel.
(22:07):
There was no chance that was ever gonna happen. Yeah,
all I can tell you is for the first twenty
five years that they did this work, nobody knew who
they were. They started in nineteen forty seven and it
wasn't until like seventy two, I think when the Linley
(22:28):
Street case happened in Bridgeport. That's when they became sort
of famous. It's certainly regionally famous. And then of course Amityville.
And here's the thing about Ambryville. They were invited in
by Channel five out of New York City. They were
there one day, that's all. And every photo you see
(22:52):
with my grandparents in them in Ambryville was taken by
news photographers, including that famous one of something that looks
like a child looking out of a bedroom doorway. Why
would they Why would the news fake something like that?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
You know? Right? So all these stories about it being
a hoax and all that, No, it wasn't. I've talked
to one of the Lutz boys men and he's deeply
damaged and even threatened my life because he thought of
making Amityville movies. At the time, I was studying with
the Kogi people in the Jungles of Columbia. So no,
(23:30):
I wasn't involved in any movie. I've never been involved
in any movies.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Do you think that, I mean, just off topic for
a moment, but the Amityville do you think that there
have been people living there for years now? And then
know the house sold a few times, but have you
heard anything Do you know that they're still having difficulties.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yes, I did an interview with a podcaster six years ago.
Six years ago. Yeah, he was a big podcaster, and
he's been in touch with and friends with one of
the female reporters that was in the house with my
grandparents back in the day, and she followed up with
all of the different owners and although they haven't come
(24:09):
forward publicly, they all admit that, yes, there has been
activity in the home. As a matter of fact, at
that time, six years ago, the house had just been
on sale again, and it goes on sale like every
three years, and the woman who was selling it her
husband in his early forties. He was in great physical
(24:30):
shape and he just dropped dead, and she blamed the
house for it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I'm not saying that's what really happened. People do
just die, right, right, Yeah, yeah, but that's what she believed.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah, I mean, clearly there was something happening there, right,
And you know, the movie was probably just like all
other movies, hyped up a little bit, you know, to
make you know what I mean. Sure it wasn't exactly
like that, but same.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Thing with the book. But you know, the thing is
George and Kathy Lutz never made a penny off of
the book or the movies or anything nothing ever. But
you know, I want to get back to your earlier
question about who my grandparents really were, and the part
I want to mention is they would drop anything, everything
to help someone, and they would do that for free.
(25:19):
They never charged anybody to help them, and neither do we.
One thing we do different than my grandparents. Excuse me
on my sneeze. We don't publicize the detailed private details
of the people we help. Back in the day, I
didn't like that my grandparents did that, so my grandfather
and I would get arguments about it because I saw
the damage. And you and I have actually spoken about
(25:41):
one case where we kind of cross paths and didn't
know it at the time, but I understand in retrospect
now there was no Internet, they didn't have the freedom
to keep that confidentiality. With some of the big cases.
They had to do that to let people know where
(26:03):
to come for help. And also, I'll be honest when
you're dealing with the Catholic Church, especially even though the
Vatican will admit, yes, absolutely, this is a real problem
and we need help. The local archdiocese are different, and
each one of them is its own separate kingdom, and
(26:27):
the archbishops are very very careful about whether or not
they'll get involved in cases, and my grandparents would often
use publicity as a way of forcing shaming the church
into helping.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Really well, yeah, you know, I'd love to just have
you chat for a minute about how people know that
they are with the real war and Legacy Foundation. Because
you have the foundation, there's another foundation that's either started
or has started that sounds like it. There's also you know, nesper.
(27:05):
How do they know that they've got the real deal?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Contact me. I'm easy to get a hold of. I'm
not some celebrity or something. I'm just a guy and
you can get a hold of me, or you can
go to Warren Legacy Foundation dot com. That's where we
have a link where you can ask for help. We
ask you to fill out a form so we have
a better sense of what we're dealing with before we
even talk, and then we set up an intake appointment.
(27:32):
We find out what we're dealing with so that we
can help you. Half of our job is really understanding
the problem. From there, we can develop a plan and
work with you and fix it, but first we have
to understand it, and that means we need to ask
hard questions things like is there drug and alcohol abuse
(27:53):
in the family, Is there a history of mental illness?
Is there domestic abuse or violence or just strife in
the home. And it's not that those are your explanation,
but those can be the doorway to these things getting
into your home. And if we don't deal with the
problem holistically, sure we can do a spiritual pleansing in
(28:16):
the home. We can knock things out for a day
or two, but you're just going to keep opening that
door again. We need to work on all of it.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
That's right. That's right. You got to fix not necessarily
what's causing it, but you've got to work on all
of the pieces together to get a exactly favorable outcome.
And that makes sense. Sometimes when I do this show,
I'd like to do sort of a I call it
a speed round or sort of a word association. I'd
like to give you a word or two and see
(28:46):
what's the first thing that pops in your head when
I say that. Say, this isn't a few, just a
few of them. So here we go, Annabelle Pain in
the ass that's five words. No, that's full words. The
most haunted place you've ever been?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Oh wow, Lee, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
There one thing that scares you.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Somebody? I love being hurt?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
How about the Warren object that you respect the most?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
My grandmother's rosary.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
The most misunderstood paranormal concept, demons. What's one thing you
wish people knew about your grandparents?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
They were truly good people.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And lastly, the best advice either Ed or Lorraine gave
to you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
My grandmother said, like attracts. Like if you put out
positive energy, you'll attract something positive. If you put out
negative energy, you'll attract something negative.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, you know. As we wrap up, I want
to give you an opportunity to just really chat about
anything we haven't talked about today that you want to
make sure people understand when they're listening. You know. It
could be about your grandparents, It can be about the foundation,
it can be about really anything. But something that you
want people to take with them from today's discussion.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Actually is none of those things. I want to give
them some tools to understand what they may be going through. First,
Number one, look at what's actually happening. Don't let your
fear guide you look at the actual phenomenon. So you're
hearing something that doesn't mean it's negative or evil, it's
(30:42):
probably Or your keys go missing for two hours and
then they're right back on the table. You look ten times,
that just means somebody's trying to get your attention. That's
not evil. That could actually be a beautiful experience if
you weren't so afraid, and if you understood what you
were dealing with. Second, treat things respectfully. Learn how to
(31:04):
set spiritual boundaries, just like you said personal boundaries in
your own life. You know, if someone's getting too close
to you, you say, listen, you're too close, please back up.
Do the same thing with a spirit. If they're bothering
you and you don't let them know that they're bothering you,
then you say, respectfully, respectfully but firmly stop. You may
(31:28):
not bother me here. This is my home. If you're
going to be here, be here quietly. Do not interact
with me, Do not interact with my family. I want
nothing to do with you. Otherwise, you leave. Nine times
out of ten. That's all you're gonna need to do.
If you're dealing with somebody who's disturbed a spirit that's disturbed,
(31:50):
or a spirit that's so desperate that they're not leaving,
or just they wear a jackass in life. That's when
you're gonna need to see people like Scott and I
and get some help. So don't let fear guide you,
don't let superstition guide you. I know for a fact
(32:11):
the phenomena is real, but I don't believe the superstitious
explanations that we give to it. And I think that's
a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It's wonderful, Chris. Thanks for your honesty and your dedication,
and also for sharing the truth about your grandparents and
their mission and what they were really like and listeners.
For more on the Warren Legacy Foundation, visit us at
Warren Legacy Foundation dot com. And that is the real one.
That's where you'll find it. Just look for Chris. He's
down on the page. Scroll down a little bit, and
(32:39):
to learn more about what I do, visit Mediumscott Allen
dot com to book a reading, explore events, and catch
up on regular and bonus episodes. Stay curious, stay safe,
and join us next time right here on the Night
Life Podcast. Thanks for joining us.
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