August 4, 2025 • 25 mins
Have you ever wondered if the spiritual journey and rock 'n' roll could harmoniously coexist? In this episode, we explore the fascinating intersection of music, meditation, and personal growth with Clementine Moss, founding drummer of the all-female Led Zeppelin tribute band Zeparella.Clementine shares her unique perspective on how drumming became a form of moving meditation, bridging the gap between her spiritual practice and her passion for music. We discuss:
Introduction to Clementine Moss: Drummer, Spiritual Seeker, and Author
00:02:22
Drumming as Meditation: Transcendence Through Music
00:05:30
Integrating Spirituality and Performance
00:08:32
Writing and Music: Creative Evolution
00:11:57
Spiritual Practices and Healing Modalities
00:18:20
Personal Transformation and Overcoming Negative Self-Talk
00:22:36
Daily Practices and Advice for Spiritual Seekers
About Scott
WEB:
Want to connect with Spirit, get a private reading, or attend a live event? Visit mediumscottallan.com for bookings, event updates, and more.
PATREON:
If you love these stories and want to support more episodes, check out my Patreon for behind-the-scenes content, bonus Q&As, and special perks for supporters.
Scott's Patreon
- How live performance can become a transcendent experience
- The unexpected ways meditation enhances musical prowess
- Finding inner wisdom through practices like depth hypnosis and applied shamanism
- The power of "slow enlightenment" in a world seeking instant transformation
- The connection between creative expression and spiritual growth
- How to integrate mindfulness into your daily life, even with a busy schedule
- The transformative potential of combining Western psychology, Buddhism, and shamanic practices
- Ways to quiet negative self-talk and cultivate self-compassion
- 00:03:59 - Drumming as meditation: Transcendence on stage
- 00:10:23 - Bridging spirituality and rock 'n' roll
- 00:15:34 - Depth hypnosis and applied shamanism explained
- 00:25:45 - The power of slow, integrative spiritual growth
- 00:37:02 - Daily practices for creativity and spiritual connection
Introduction to Clementine Moss: Drummer, Spiritual Seeker, and Author
00:02:22
Drumming as Meditation: Transcendence Through Music
00:05:30
Integrating Spirituality and Performance
00:08:32
Writing and Music: Creative Evolution
00:11:57
Spiritual Practices and Healing Modalities
00:18:20
Personal Transformation and Overcoming Negative Self-Talk
00:22:36
Daily Practices and Advice for Spiritual Seekers
About Scott
WEB:
Want to connect with Spirit, get a private reading, or attend a live event? Visit mediumscottallan.com for bookings, event updates, and more.
PATREON:
If you love these stories and want to support more episodes, check out my Patreon for behind-the-scenes content, bonus Q&As, and special perks for supporters.
Scott's Patreon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Enlightened Life podcast.
I'm your host. Scott Allen, my guest today, says that
the spiritual journey doesn't have to take you out of
the world, it can take you deeper into it. Clementine
Moss is a force. She is the founding drummer of
the electrifying all female rock band Zeberella, a gifted singer, songwriter,
(00:25):
and deeply compassionate spiritual counselor. In her powerful memoir From
Bonham to Buddha and Back, the slow Enlightenment of the
hard rock drummer, she takes us on a journey from
the raw energy of rock and roll to the quiet
wisdom of spiritual guidance and shows us they're not separate paths,
(00:45):
but one and the same. Plematina spent decades exploring what
it means to be fully present, both on stage and
in life. It reminds us that transcendence can happen on
the most unexpected places, a crowded concert hall, a long
van ride, or a heartbreak. Her latest solo music project,
Nothing Will Keep Us Apart, continues that exploration with songs
(01:08):
full of love, longing, and divine connection. This conversation is
about healing, awakening, and the courage to be exactly who
you are. Loud, hopeful, and full of light. You're gonna
love this one. Let's get started. Hello, how why are
(01:35):
you Clementine? Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you, Scott, that was such a kind introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, thank you, Oh, thank you so much. Well, I
think it's great. I think it's great you are in
this band. You founded the band by yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, I founded it. It was my idea, but from
the very beginning I was with my guitarist, Gretchen Men
So you should give me a lot of credit because
it was my idea, but she was from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yes, that's awesome. Is it just going by the name?
Is it a Zeppelin like cover band? It is? That's
so great. And to have all of the women, that's fantastic.
You've described by performance really as a form of meditation.
What does it feel like in your body and mind
when you hit that transcendent space while drumming.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, that's a wonderful question because that's the place that
I've you know, I look for when I'm on the
meditation Matt, which is that place where I feel as
though the song is playing me right that my thoughts,
I'm no longer reacting to thought. I'm completely embodied in
(02:43):
the moment of the song. That doesn't happen all the time, certainly,
And it's funny because the more I seem to like
try for it, it goes away. And so it really
is about both letting go and all so having a
background of practice behind me, of focused intention, And it
(03:07):
really is a great metaphor for learning an instrument. You know,
we're we're learning, you know, we're very focused on the craft,
but then when we're in the moment, letting go of that,
all of that study and just being free to express ourselves.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know, it's somebody told me once that it's a
lot like learning a language. Right, So once you stop
thinking about the language and you just realized you're thinking
in the language instead of about it, you got it.
It must be the same way with the instrument as well,
and so similar. Yeah. Yeah, How did how did this
journey with music evolve into a spiritual practice? Was there
(03:48):
at some moment where you realize that the two are
connected or was it always there?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, my spiritual life and my drumming life started in
my late twenties, and I thought that it was two
separate things. For a really long time. You know, I
didn't really talk about the spiritual aspect, the meditation and stuff.
It was just something I did for myself. And then
(04:14):
I would, you know, get off the meditation mat and
run out into the world and you know, be a
rock and roll drummer. I started to really understand the connection,
like how much I was gaining from my meditation practice
behind the drum set, especially when I was in times
of difficulty. For instance, if I was playing at altitude
(04:38):
right like when we were playing in Record Ridge, Colorado,
it's what ten thousand feet and it's really challenging in
my body. And I realized I was using some of
the same like recognizing that it was my mind telling
me that it was difficult more than it was actually difficult.
Like so some of these lessons I figured out that
(05:01):
I was learning on the meditation Matt. I realized I
was using them, you know, so much every day. And
then I really realized, you know, my spiritual life is
my life. There is no difference. You know, it doesn't
matter if I'm in traffic I still see the reaction,
you know, process of my mind and my emotions, and
(05:23):
I'm I'm able to bring in some of those tools
and meditation into my daily life.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's funny because you know, that's sort of where I
was going next, and I was going to ask you
how you manage the tension between being a performer and
being a seeker and all the same person. But they're intertwined.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
They're really intertwined. And you know, ultimately, I think the
point of contemplative practice, the point of meditation and all
of this is for us to get to the point
where we reach that place of real compassion for ourselves.
When we're sitting and we're in the struggle with mind.
(06:01):
There comes a point in meditator's journey where we become
very kind with ourselves and we see the patterns, we
see the cycles we've been spinning around in for a
long time, and we great and we our heart opens
to ourselves, and that compassion for the self begins to
spread out into the world. You know, I remember having
(06:24):
a big opening on the meditation matt and going out
and going to work and seeing people walk down the
street and looking into their faces and thinking, off, I'm
struggling with these things. How much other people must be struggling,
and it was my heart kind of cracked open. And
you know, when we're I'm playing drums on stage, it's
(06:49):
that that expression is not just for me, it's it's
a communication with everybody in the audience, and that that
movement back and forth of their attention and my attention
and the music, you know, it just it's so it
feels so powerful to join us in that sore even
(07:12):
that is connected.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, but is that the beauty music? Anyway? I think
it was, you know, a totally different genre, but I
think it was Engelbert Humperdink or one of them people
made back when said, you know, you could just sit
back and take it all in and let it take over,
let the moment take over. And I feel, you know,
that's when you are there. It isn't just you in
(07:34):
the moment, although it is, but it's everyone else coming together.
And I just think that's great.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, it's really beautiful. I had an experience recently where
you know, I do a drum solo in the show
and I stood up and you know, felt heard the
applause and I realized that what I was feeling was
that they weren't really applauding for me. They were applauding
for the moment, like for the thing that was. You know,
(08:02):
it's it's not it's not me, it's not Clem, you know.
And I I really love feeling, you know, feeling that
I'm like an instrument for our celebration.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And that's wonderful. Can we talk about your writing and
your book a little bit. You you began as a
writer before you became a drummer. Is that is that right?
And and you manage somehow to keep writing a part
of your creative and spiritual life.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah. I actually when I started playing drums, you know,
I was in New York City. I was looking for,
you know, something to write about. Really, I felt like
I hadn't really lived and music happened upon me and
this kind of strange series of circumstances, and and so
I did stop writing. I mean I was always, you know,
(08:52):
I was always writ Like once you're a writer, you're
always just kind of writing. But but it was in
a way, I just I kind of stopped the devoted
practice of it. And I knew that I would come
back to it, and sure enough it started to happen
actually through songwriting. First and then and then from there
(09:14):
started to write essays and blog posts and more serious things. Yeah,
but for a number of years I really devoted myself
just to the music.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, and you did write your memoir and that's the
one that we were just talking about a moment ago.
I was soon did it Did it deepen your understanding
of your own path? You know, to help put some
of this into words?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You know, it really did. And you know, the big
thing that I saw was that drumming was It's like
a beacon in my life. It was like a light
on the path, even you know, when I started to
study the spiritual the spiritual counseling model that I do.
(10:04):
When you know, I went to my first class and
the drum came out, it was like all of these
light bulbs went off. The drum has been carrying me
down the path that I guess I was meant for
or the one that I chose probably.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So you you also have a new album
would you talk about Nothing Will Keep Us Apart? And
it explores the theme of love in its many forms.
And did you write did you write the music for
that or is that still part of the Zeppelin?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
No? No, I write yeah, I write, this is a
solo project. So basically I wrote an album called Clem
and Clear Light that comes out this week, and I wrote, yeah,
I wrote that with a guitarist named Danielle a Guitardo,
an amazing prolific musician. And after that album was done,
(11:04):
it was done maybe two years ago, suddenly all these
other songs started to come out, which was the record
Nothing Will Keep Us Apart, And those are just piano,
bass and drums and vocal and with no guitar. So
I thought, well, I'll put those songs out first, and
(11:27):
now this album, Clem and Clear Light is coming out
this week. Yeah. So I have a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Of fantastic Yeah, that's so great.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
A big creative spurt, definitely.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
That's wonderful. And you're also trained to model. It's like
depths of snosis and applied shamanism. A lot of these
practices wore people and finding their own inner wisdom. And
do you do them regularly or time for all of
this kind of thing, to be honest, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I do have time for it. I don't have a
ton of a client, but I do have many clients
who you know, the great thing about this work is
that you know. Uh, usually it's intense at the beginning,
you know, many sessions at the beginning, and then it's
more maintenance over time because the modalities are so wonderful,
(12:19):
wonderfully healing, and uh yeah, they're you know the way
that the reason that I I work in, uh the
modality of Depth of Gnosis and applied Shamanism as taught
by a teacher in Berkeley, California named Isa Gucciardi. The
reason that I chose to work in those modalities is
(12:42):
because it really is about empowering the client to find
their own healing, their own wisdom. And it's not Clem
the shaman who is doing it. It's the I'm being
a guide for the client to find their own inner power,
their own inner wisdm. And that's that's very meaningful for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, do you think and it's just a little slightly
off topic but not totally. As a shaman, is that
something you're born with or is it something you can learn?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think that people who are called people are called
to the path. I think anybody can be called, but
you know, it really is. You know, I look back
at my life and I realized what a connection I
had to the bigger questions from a very young age,
(13:38):
and most of it was through literature where I was
always seeking. And then when I found a contemplative practice
in my early twenties, it just felt so natural, like
I knew, you know, that this was going to be
a part of my life, and I was just very
open to those kind of things. So, you know, I
(14:01):
think that it really is about intention, you know. I
think anybody who has the intention too to want to
dive deep into the uncomfortable places. Uh, anyone who has
an intention to want to to help others to heal
in this way, I think that would be the way
(14:22):
that you're called and there are many people are called
that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you've also talked about slow enlightenment. I know, I
know for me and for many others, they have an experience.
It happens fast, it's dramatic. What is what does spiritual
growth look like when it's not sudden, when it when
it's quiet and steady, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, I think that you. I think one problem today
when difficulty today in the world is people are really
looking for the big experience and so they're doing a
lot of plant medicine or you know, different practices that
(15:03):
are very extreme, and those are can be wonderful, and
they can also be extremely disruptive, and you can get
a whole lot of information that could take a long
time to integrate and understand. And unfortunately, because we kind
of have a consumer mindset, I think people jump from
(15:25):
from experience to experience to experience out really doing that integration.
We say in the depth ofpnosis world, that depth of
noosis is like ayahuasca in slow motion. You know, you're
reaching those same places that you might reach with the plant,
(15:45):
but we're doing it in such a slow, integrative way
that the healing happens happens that way over time. So yeah,
I think I think that spiritual growth is something that
we don't really know what it is that we're looking for,
(16:09):
and I think we get sidetracked by thinking it's it
is the big experience, rather than realizing one day that
you have an infinite compassion, infinite empathy for the world
around you and for yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, Can you explain depth hypnosis as opposed to you know,
how different is that from what we think of when
we think of regular hypnosis. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Depthhpnosis is a modality developed by Issa Gucciarti that combines
Western psychology, especially trans personal psychology, which understands that spirit
is an aspect of healing, and Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism,
(16:58):
because Meism took on the shamanic tradition, the Bun tradition
of Tibet, So in Tibetan Buddhism, there's a lot of
energy healing, light healing, sound healing, and then traditional shamanism
and it's combined into a really beautiful healing modality where
(17:18):
we're using things like power retrieval, so retrieval, past life regression,
those kind of ideas in a clinical setting. And the
beautiful thing, like I said, is that, you know, the
practitioner is really the guide for the person as they're
(17:40):
going on their own shamanic journeys in order to reach
those healing spaces in an empowered way. And it's really
it's been proven to be very wonderful for people with
things like PTSD, anxiety disorders, a lot of trauma release. Yeah, yeah,
(18:01):
it's a wonderful modality.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Were there ever any specific turning points, heartbreaks, losses, that
sort of thing that maybe became a little bit of
a more more of a turning point, so to speak,
in your in your transformation or was it always just
a kind of slow and steady experience.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh No, many many big ones. I mean I've had,
I've had large you know, those big experiences of opening.
But really at the thing that I think I was
struggling with the most and the thing that I I
can point to as to why all the seeking was
(18:41):
a feeling within myself of a very negative voice, very
negative thoughts about myself, and they it was this cycle
that I would get into in my mind, and I
didn't understand where that came from. There were layers of shame,
(19:01):
There was layers of abuse that I was getting from
myself from my internal life for most of my life,
and I couldn't figure out how to get out from
under that and how to not believe it. And then
when I started to practice steph ofnosis, you know, after
(19:23):
maybe four three or four sessions, that voice was so
quiet I didn't really hear it anymore, and I started
to think, this is something I want to do with
other people. It was really helpful.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's not something you do yourself, like just meditation. This
is something you have a practitioner that works with you.
That's right. Yeah, And if somebody wanted to experience that,
where would they look? Would they look at a metaphysical
place or is this a hypnotist or regular hypnotist or
where would they go?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's so the foundation of the Sacred Stream Sacred Sacred
Stream dot org. You can find the practitioners there and
learn more about depth ofnosis. Yeah, and when they say hypnosis,
it really is. You know, we're working in an altered state,
and the altered state is created by either deep meditative
(20:15):
practice or by the sound of a frame drum. You know,
the repetitive sound of a drum creates that deep meditative
state within the mind, and then we can work kind
of outside the structure that the brain, the mind wants
to impose.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Great, Yeah, you have been a I'm going to pronounce wrong.
Vipsana meditator. What is that? What is it? What is that? So?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
The possana?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeahsa, it's a form of meditation. It's called insight meditation
and vipossuma meditation. You're focused the front attention of your
on something. So for many people it could be the breath,
like you're just watching your and there is a there's
(21:09):
a wonderful organization around the world where you can go
to a ten day silent meditation retreat. It's all donation only,
and you're there for ten days. You take a valve
of silence and you meditate, you know, twelve hours a
day and they teach you the practice of insight meditation.
(21:34):
And this is your observing sensations on the body. So
you're bringing your attention to the top of your head
and you're moving inch by inch all the way down
the body with the brain. So it's giving the mind,
the front attention of the mind something to focus on
while the awareness behind you, behind that front attention, begins
(21:56):
to open up. That's the best way I can describe it.
And it's a wonderful organization. You can find it at
Doma Dhamma dot.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
That sounds great, I mean, and people, I'm sure there
are people sit there and say, oh my god, I
could never sit the twelve hours a day, and they
do that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, there are three like you know sits where you're
really required to be there for one hour and the
rest of the time you can meditate in the hall
or in your room.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh I see, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any
daily rituals or grounding practices and support the creativity spiritual
connection I do.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I do. Yeah, I do quite a bit of shamanic journeying.
I do meditation. I have prayers that I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Would you say to someone who's listening today and they
say they or they feel like they're just too busy
or too much going on in their life to walk
this path.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, It's amazing how time opens up when you devote
yourself to h that and even to say that, you know,
for five minutes in the morning while the coffee is brewing,
I'm going to sit in the same place every day. Yeah,
I'm just going to watch my breath. I'm just going
to check in with myself. I'm just going to give
myself that those moments, It's amazing how effortless other things
(23:21):
start to become and you start to find all of
the time in your day where you where you can
you can lose that time.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, to it. Is there anything you'd like to share
and leave with our listeners about what you do, your
book where they can find it, your music where they
can see you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah. Well, zepparrellis playing plays all over the US, and
so we're always somewhere, and then all of my stuff
is at Clemthegreat dot com. That's where you find the book,
the spiritual counseling, the the music, everything is there, Clem
the Great.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here
with us. This has been wonderful. I want to thank
you all for listening today and joining us for this beautiful,
soulful connection with Clementine. I hope her journey from rock
and roll stages to spiritual stillness remind you that there's
not one way to walk a sacred path. There's certainly more,
and whether it's through music, meditation, or the simple act
(24:25):
of being fully present, transformation is always available to each
of us. To learn more about Clementine's music, kerme memoir
from Bottom to Buddha and Back, and her healing work again,
her website is Clemthegreat dot com. And if you'd like
to stay connected with me, find out about my upcoming
events and explore more episodes of the Enlightened Life Podcast,
(24:46):
head over to Mediumscott Allen dot com. Till next time,
stay open, stay curious, and stay connected to your own
enlightened life. Thanks for joining us,
Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Enlightened Life podcast.
I'm your host. Scott Allen, my guest today, says that
the spiritual journey doesn't have to take you out of
the world, it can take you deeper into it. Clementine
Moss is a force. She is the founding drummer of
the electrifying all female rock band Zeberella, a gifted singer, songwriter,
(00:25):
and deeply compassionate spiritual counselor. In her powerful memoir From
Bonham to Buddha and Back, the slow Enlightenment of the
hard rock drummer, she takes us on a journey from
the raw energy of rock and roll to the quiet
wisdom of spiritual guidance and shows us they're not separate paths,
(00:45):
but one and the same. Plematina spent decades exploring what
it means to be fully present, both on stage and
in life. It reminds us that transcendence can happen on
the most unexpected places, a crowded concert hall, a long
van ride, or a heartbreak. Her latest solo music project,
Nothing Will Keep Us Apart, continues that exploration with songs
(01:08):
full of love, longing, and divine connection. This conversation is
about healing, awakening, and the courage to be exactly who
you are. Loud, hopeful, and full of light. You're gonna
love this one. Let's get started. Hello, how why are
(01:35):
you Clementine? Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank you, Scott, that was such a kind introduction.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, thank you, Oh, thank you so much. Well, I
think it's great. I think it's great you are in
this band. You founded the band by yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well, I founded it. It was my idea, but from
the very beginning I was with my guitarist, Gretchen Men
So you should give me a lot of credit because
it was my idea, but she was from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yes, that's awesome. Is it just going by the name?
Is it a Zeppelin like cover band? It is? That's
so great. And to have all of the women, that's fantastic.
You've described by performance really as a form of meditation.
What does it feel like in your body and mind
when you hit that transcendent space while drumming.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, that's a wonderful question because that's the place that
I've you know, I look for when I'm on the
meditation Matt, which is that place where I feel as
though the song is playing me right that my thoughts,
I'm no longer reacting to thought. I'm completely embodied in
(02:43):
the moment of the song. That doesn't happen all the time, certainly,
And it's funny because the more I seem to like
try for it, it goes away. And so it really
is about both letting go and all so having a
background of practice behind me, of focused intention, And it
(03:07):
really is a great metaphor for learning an instrument. You know,
we're we're learning, you know, we're very focused on the craft,
but then when we're in the moment, letting go of that,
all of that study and just being free to express ourselves.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
You know, it's somebody told me once that it's a
lot like learning a language. Right, So once you stop
thinking about the language and you just realized you're thinking
in the language instead of about it, you got it.
It must be the same way with the instrument as well,
and so similar. Yeah. Yeah, How did how did this
journey with music evolve into a spiritual practice? Was there
(03:48):
at some moment where you realize that the two are
connected or was it always there?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, my spiritual life and my drumming life started in
my late twenties, and I thought that it was two
separate things. For a really long time. You know, I
didn't really talk about the spiritual aspect, the meditation and stuff.
It was just something I did for myself. And then
(04:14):
I would, you know, get off the meditation mat and
run out into the world and you know, be a
rock and roll drummer. I started to really understand the connection,
like how much I was gaining from my meditation practice
behind the drum set, especially when I was in times
of difficulty. For instance, if I was playing at altitude
(04:38):
right like when we were playing in Record Ridge, Colorado,
it's what ten thousand feet and it's really challenging in
my body. And I realized I was using some of
the same like recognizing that it was my mind telling
me that it was difficult more than it was actually difficult.
Like so some of these lessons I figured out that
(05:01):
I was learning on the meditation Matt. I realized I
was using them, you know, so much every day. And
then I really realized, you know, my spiritual life is
my life. There is no difference. You know, it doesn't
matter if I'm in traffic I still see the reaction,
you know, process of my mind and my emotions, and
(05:23):
I'm I'm able to bring in some of those tools
and meditation into my daily life.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's funny because you know, that's sort of where I
was going next, and I was going to ask you
how you manage the tension between being a performer and
being a seeker and all the same person. But they're intertwined.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
They're really intertwined. And you know, ultimately, I think the
point of contemplative practice, the point of meditation and all
of this is for us to get to the point
where we reach that place of real compassion for ourselves.
When we're sitting and we're in the struggle with mind.
(06:01):
There comes a point in meditator's journey where we become
very kind with ourselves and we see the patterns, we
see the cycles we've been spinning around in for a
long time, and we great and we our heart opens
to ourselves, and that compassion for the self begins to
spread out into the world. You know, I remember having
(06:24):
a big opening on the meditation matt and going out
and going to work and seeing people walk down the
street and looking into their faces and thinking, off, I'm
struggling with these things. How much other people must be struggling,
and it was my heart kind of cracked open. And
you know, when we're I'm playing drums on stage, it's
(06:49):
that that expression is not just for me, it's it's
a communication with everybody in the audience, and that that
movement back and forth of their attention and my attention
and the music, you know, it just it's so it
feels so powerful to join us in that sore even
(07:12):
that is connected.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, but is that the beauty music? Anyway? I think
it was, you know, a totally different genre, but I
think it was Engelbert Humperdink or one of them people
made back when said, you know, you could just sit
back and take it all in and let it take over,
let the moment take over. And I feel, you know,
that's when you are there. It isn't just you in
(07:34):
the moment, although it is, but it's everyone else coming together.
And I just think that's great.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, it's really beautiful. I had an experience recently where
you know, I do a drum solo in the show
and I stood up and you know, felt heard the
applause and I realized that what I was feeling was
that they weren't really applauding for me. They were applauding
for the moment, like for the thing that was. You know,
(08:02):
it's it's not it's not me, it's not Clem, you know.
And I I really love feeling, you know, feeling that
I'm like an instrument for our celebration.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And that's wonderful. Can we talk about your writing and
your book a little bit. You you began as a
writer before you became a drummer. Is that is that right?
And and you manage somehow to keep writing a part
of your creative and spiritual life.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah. I actually when I started playing drums, you know,
I was in New York City. I was looking for,
you know, something to write about. Really, I felt like
I hadn't really lived and music happened upon me and
this kind of strange series of circumstances, and and so
I did stop writing. I mean I was always, you know,
(08:52):
I was always writ Like once you're a writer, you're
always just kind of writing. But but it was in
a way, I just I kind of stopped the devoted
practice of it. And I knew that I would come
back to it, and sure enough it started to happen
actually through songwriting. First and then and then from there
(09:14):
started to write essays and blog posts and more serious things. Yeah,
but for a number of years I really devoted myself
just to the music.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, and you did write your memoir and that's the
one that we were just talking about a moment ago.
I was soon did it Did it deepen your understanding
of your own path? You know, to help put some
of this into words?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
You know, it really did. And you know, the big
thing that I saw was that drumming was It's like
a beacon in my life. It was like a light
on the path, even you know, when I started to
study the spiritual the spiritual counseling model that I do.
(10:04):
When you know, I went to my first class and
the drum came out, it was like all of these
light bulbs went off. The drum has been carrying me
down the path that I guess I was meant for
or the one that I chose probably.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So you you also have a new album
would you talk about Nothing Will Keep Us Apart? And
it explores the theme of love in its many forms.
And did you write did you write the music for
that or is that still part of the Zeppelin?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
No? No, I write yeah, I write, this is a
solo project. So basically I wrote an album called Clem
and Clear Light that comes out this week, and I wrote, yeah,
I wrote that with a guitarist named Danielle a Guitardo,
an amazing prolific musician. And after that album was done,
(11:04):
it was done maybe two years ago, suddenly all these
other songs started to come out, which was the record
Nothing Will Keep Us Apart, And those are just piano,
bass and drums and vocal and with no guitar. So
I thought, well, I'll put those songs out first, and
(11:27):
now this album, Clem and Clear Light is coming out
this week. Yeah. So I have a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Of fantastic Yeah, that's so great.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
A big creative spurt, definitely.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
That's wonderful. And you're also trained to model. It's like
depths of snosis and applied shamanism. A lot of these
practices wore people and finding their own inner wisdom. And
do you do them regularly or time for all of
this kind of thing, to be honest, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
I do have time for it. I don't have a
ton of a client, but I do have many clients
who you know, the great thing about this work is
that you know. Uh, usually it's intense at the beginning,
you know, many sessions at the beginning, and then it's
more maintenance over time because the modalities are so wonderful,
(12:19):
wonderfully healing, and uh yeah, they're you know the way
that the reason that I I work in, uh the
modality of Depth of Gnosis and applied Shamanism as taught
by a teacher in Berkeley, California named Isa Gucciardi. The
reason that I chose to work in those modalities is
(12:42):
because it really is about empowering the client to find
their own healing, their own wisdom. And it's not Clem
the shaman who is doing it. It's the I'm being
a guide for the client to find their own inner power,
their own inner wisdm. And that's that's very meaningful for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, do you think and it's just a little slightly
off topic but not totally. As a shaman, is that
something you're born with or is it something you can learn?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I think that people who are called people are called
to the path. I think anybody can be called, but
you know, it really is. You know, I look back
at my life and I realized what a connection I
had to the bigger questions from a very young age,
(13:38):
and most of it was through literature where I was
always seeking. And then when I found a contemplative practice
in my early twenties, it just felt so natural, like
I knew, you know, that this was going to be
a part of my life, and I was just very
open to those kind of things. So, you know, I
(14:01):
think that it really is about intention, you know. I
think anybody who has the intention too to want to
dive deep into the uncomfortable places. Uh, anyone who has
an intention to want to to help others to heal
in this way, I think that would be the way
(14:22):
that you're called and there are many people are called
that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you've also talked about slow enlightenment. I know, I
know for me and for many others, they have an experience.
It happens fast, it's dramatic. What is what does spiritual
growth look like when it's not sudden, when it when
it's quiet and steady, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, I think that you. I think one problem today
when difficulty today in the world is people are really
looking for the big experience and so they're doing a
lot of plant medicine or you know, different practices that
(15:03):
are very extreme, and those are can be wonderful, and
they can also be extremely disruptive, and you can get
a whole lot of information that could take a long
time to integrate and understand. And unfortunately, because we kind
of have a consumer mindset, I think people jump from
(15:25):
from experience to experience to experience out really doing that integration.
We say in the depth ofpnosis world, that depth of
noosis is like ayahuasca in slow motion. You know, you're
reaching those same places that you might reach with the plant,
(15:45):
but we're doing it in such a slow, integrative way
that the healing happens happens that way over time. So yeah,
I think I think that spiritual growth is something that
we don't really know what it is that we're looking for,
(16:09):
and I think we get sidetracked by thinking it's it
is the big experience, rather than realizing one day that
you have an infinite compassion, infinite empathy for the world
around you and for yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, Can you explain depth hypnosis as opposed to you know,
how different is that from what we think of when
we think of regular hypnosis. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Depthhpnosis is a modality developed by Issa Gucciarti that combines
Western psychology, especially trans personal psychology, which understands that spirit
is an aspect of healing, and Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism,
(16:58):
because Meism took on the shamanic tradition, the Bun tradition
of Tibet, So in Tibetan Buddhism, there's a lot of
energy healing, light healing, sound healing, and then traditional shamanism
and it's combined into a really beautiful healing modality where
(17:18):
we're using things like power retrieval, so retrieval, past life regression,
those kind of ideas in a clinical setting. And the
beautiful thing, like I said, is that, you know, the
practitioner is really the guide for the person as they're
(17:40):
going on their own shamanic journeys in order to reach
those healing spaces in an empowered way. And it's really
it's been proven to be very wonderful for people with
things like PTSD, anxiety disorders, a lot of trauma release. Yeah, yeah,
(18:01):
it's a wonderful modality.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Were there ever any specific turning points, heartbreaks, losses, that
sort of thing that maybe became a little bit of
a more more of a turning point, so to speak,
in your in your transformation or was it always just
a kind of slow and steady experience.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh No, many many big ones. I mean I've had,
I've had large you know, those big experiences of opening.
But really at the thing that I think I was
struggling with the most and the thing that I I
can point to as to why all the seeking was
(18:41):
a feeling within myself of a very negative voice, very
negative thoughts about myself, and they it was this cycle
that I would get into in my mind, and I
didn't understand where that came from. There were layers of shame,
(19:01):
There was layers of abuse that I was getting from
myself from my internal life for most of my life,
and I couldn't figure out how to get out from
under that and how to not believe it. And then
when I started to practice steph ofnosis, you know, after
(19:23):
maybe four three or four sessions, that voice was so
quiet I didn't really hear it anymore, and I started
to think, this is something I want to do with
other people. It was really helpful.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's not something you do yourself, like just meditation. This
is something you have a practitioner that works with you.
That's right. Yeah, And if somebody wanted to experience that,
where would they look? Would they look at a metaphysical
place or is this a hypnotist or regular hypnotist or
where would they go?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's so the foundation of the Sacred Stream Sacred Sacred
Stream dot org. You can find the practitioners there and
learn more about depth ofnosis. Yeah, and when they say hypnosis,
it really is. You know, we're working in an altered state,
and the altered state is created by either deep meditative
(20:15):
practice or by the sound of a frame drum. You know,
the repetitive sound of a drum creates that deep meditative
state within the mind, and then we can work kind
of outside the structure that the brain, the mind wants
to impose.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Great, Yeah, you have been a I'm going to pronounce wrong.
Vipsana meditator. What is that? What is it? What is that? So?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
The possana?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeahsa, it's a form of meditation. It's called insight meditation
and vipossuma meditation. You're focused the front attention of your
on something. So for many people it could be the breath,
like you're just watching your and there is a there's
(21:09):
a wonderful organization around the world where you can go
to a ten day silent meditation retreat. It's all donation only,
and you're there for ten days. You take a valve
of silence and you meditate, you know, twelve hours a
day and they teach you the practice of insight meditation.
(21:34):
And this is your observing sensations on the body. So
you're bringing your attention to the top of your head
and you're moving inch by inch all the way down
the body with the brain. So it's giving the mind,
the front attention of the mind something to focus on
while the awareness behind you, behind that front attention, begins
(21:56):
to open up. That's the best way I can describe it.
And it's a wonderful organization. You can find it at
Doma Dhamma dot.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
That sounds great, I mean, and people, I'm sure there
are people sit there and say, oh my god, I
could never sit the twelve hours a day, and they
do that.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, there are three like you know sits where you're
really required to be there for one hour and the
rest of the time you can meditate in the hall
or in your room.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh I see, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any
daily rituals or grounding practices and support the creativity spiritual
connection I do.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I do. Yeah, I do quite a bit of shamanic journeying.
I do meditation. I have prayers that I do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Would you say to someone who's listening today and they
say they or they feel like they're just too busy
or too much going on in their life to walk
this path.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, It's amazing how time opens up when you devote
yourself to h that and even to say that, you know,
for five minutes in the morning while the coffee is brewing,
I'm going to sit in the same place every day. Yeah,
I'm just going to watch my breath. I'm just going
to check in with myself. I'm just going to give
myself that those moments, It's amazing how effortless other things
(23:21):
start to become and you start to find all of
the time in your day where you where you can
you can lose that time.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, to it. Is there anything you'd like to share
and leave with our listeners about what you do, your
book where they can find it, your music where they
can see you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah. Well, zepparrellis playing plays all over the US, and
so we're always somewhere, and then all of my stuff
is at Clemthegreat dot com. That's where you find the book,
the spiritual counseling, the the music, everything is there, Clem
the Great.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here
with us. This has been wonderful. I want to thank
you all for listening today and joining us for this beautiful,
soulful connection with Clementine. I hope her journey from rock
and roll stages to spiritual stillness remind you that there's
not one way to walk a sacred path. There's certainly more,
and whether it's through music, meditation, or the simple act
(24:25):
of being fully present, transformation is always available to each
of us. To learn more about Clementine's music, kerme memoir
from Bottom to Buddha and Back, and her healing work again,
her website is Clemthegreat dot com. And if you'd like
to stay connected with me, find out about my upcoming
events and explore more episodes of the Enlightened Life Podcast,
(24:46):
head over to Mediumscott Allen dot com. Till next time,
stay open, stay curious, and stay connected to your own
enlightened life. Thanks for joining us,
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