April 15, 2025 • 31 mins
In this personal episode, we recognize Black Maternal Health Week with a reflection on the systemic failures that Black women face during pregnancy and childbirth. Together, we explore the heartbreaking reality that Black women - regardless of income or education - consistently experience the worst maternal health outcomes in the U.S. Why are they not being heard? Why are their concerns dismissed, even by healthcare professionals? And what does it say about the society we live in?
As we draw connections between environmental racism, healthcare inequities, and the lived experiences of Black mothers, we go beyond the statistics, and get personal about our family experiences, toxic beauty standards, and the critical importance of clean, safe environments and culturally competent medical care. As you listen, we hope that you will walk away not only informed, but inspired to act. Whether it’s advocating for Black physicians, confronting harmful stereotypes, or demanding safer neighborhoods, this is both a call to consciousness and a call to action.
🎧 Tune in for an urgent conversation and learn how you can stand in solidarity with Black mothers, this week and every week.
Resources:
Black Women Maternal Health - Fact Sheet
"With Black doctors, Black people live longer" - STAT News
How Serena Williams saved her own life - ELLE Magazine
Connect with our Environmental Justice Lab community:
Instagram: @envjusticelab
YouTube: @envjusticelab
Email: theenvironmentaljusticelab@gmail.com
Don’t forget to subscribe and rate the podcast wherever you listen! Support our work by joining the Supporters Club: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-environmental-justice-lab--5583745/support
As we draw connections between environmental racism, healthcare inequities, and the lived experiences of Black mothers, we go beyond the statistics, and get personal about our family experiences, toxic beauty standards, and the critical importance of clean, safe environments and culturally competent medical care. As you listen, we hope that you will walk away not only informed, but inspired to act. Whether it’s advocating for Black physicians, confronting harmful stereotypes, or demanding safer neighborhoods, this is both a call to consciousness and a call to action.
🎧 Tune in for an urgent conversation and learn how you can stand in solidarity with Black mothers, this week and every week.
Resources:
Black Women Maternal Health - Fact Sheet
"With Black doctors, Black people live longer" - STAT News
How Serena Williams saved her own life - ELLE Magazine
Connect with our Environmental Justice Lab community:
Instagram: @envjusticelab
YouTube: @envjusticelab
Email: theenvironmentaljusticelab@gmail.com
Don’t forget to subscribe and rate the podcast wherever you listen! Support our work by joining the Supporters Club: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-environmental-justice-lab--5583745/support
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the Environmental Justice Lab. I am your host,
doctor Leslie Joseph. Thank you so much for joining me.
And today's a special episode because this week is Black
Maternal Health Week, and so if you don't know, Black
Maternal Health Week runs from April eleventh through April seventeenth
(00:45):
here in the United States and I'm sure around the
world we can celebrate it. And it's just an opportunity
to pause and think about our Black women, their maternal
health and what we can do and how we can
think about ways to serve them better, because let's just
be honest, they have a hard time. They're not listened to,
(01:06):
they're not well respected. Our Black women, especially our pregnant ones,
are not highly regarded in the rooms where they are
trying to give birth, when they're trying to get prenatal care.
It is an awful, awful situation that they're currently well,
that they are consistently in when they're trying to get treatment,
(01:28):
when they're trying to get care and ultimately deliver a healthy,
happy baby. And so this week give us an opportunity
to think about that, to acknowledge the struggles that Black
women have, particularly in the prenatal world, and they just
think about what we can do to support and help
(01:51):
our Black women because the research is very clear, no
matter what income education, black women, all ages, all income levels,
all education levels, have the worst birth outcomes of anyone
(02:12):
else in our society. It's just a reality, and Black
Maternal Health Week gives us a chance to pause and
think about what we can do to confront that reality.
Just for a little background, this week was founded by
the Black Mama's Matter Alliance, which is a nonprofit national
(02:34):
network of organizations that focus on reproductive health and freedom
reproductive justice birth justice as they call it, and it
celebrates during this week the activism that's taking place, the
community that's been building around these issues and working towards
evidence based solutions to deal with these issues that black
(02:59):
women face when they're pregnant. Because if you spend thirty
seconds online, you will read some horrifying stories of everyone
from your local nurse down the street to celebrities who
have had horrifying birth stories because of the care that
(03:21):
they've received or didn't receive, and the lack of attention
that's been given to them when they're in their prenatal state.
It's just a reality and on this podcast, we talk
about environmental justice, environmental racism, environmental inequity, and we see
it very clearly when it comes to black maternal health. Right, So,
(03:46):
the ways in which the environments that surround these black
women's homes and their workplaces contribute to these negative birth outcomes,
ways in which they're viewed by the public. The racism,
the misogyny, all the things that come along with having
to exist in the world as a Black woman leads
(04:10):
to negative birth outcomes. The fact that many of our
black women are black. Households are found in areas of
a city where there's no food available, there's poor water quality,
the infrastructure is crumbling, all of these things. There's no hospitals,
there's no health care facilities nearby. All these things lead
(04:33):
to negative birth outcomes. And so we need to at
least first of all, acknowledge that reality. We need to
acknowledge it. This is clearly disproportionately a black female issue
when it comes to maternal health, because even as women
(04:57):
all across the board face wide varieties of discrimination and
massogyny and being othered in different ways, in the end,
you know, you're your white woman, you're young white females,
people from other predominant cultures. They take care of their daughters,
(05:21):
they take care of their wives, They make sure that
whatever's going on, their child bearing spouse gets what they
need to deliver a healthy baby, and then take care
of that baby at the house, usually with a lot
of support and a lot of help. That's not the
(05:42):
case for many black women, even ones with tremendous wealth
and resources. Their research has always has consistently shown us
that when black women go to the doctor, when they
come in pregnant, when they come in with issues and
health concerns, listen to, they're believed to be exaggerating their conditions.
(06:04):
They're believed to be exaggerating the pain that they're in,
They're believed to be, you know, exaggerating the urgency of
the matter that they're dealing with at the moment. Consistently,
the research has shown us that there's these kind of
racist ideas of black women being like these superhuman, heroic
(06:28):
figures that can withstand any kind of trauma, any kind
of pain without medical intervention. Right there's this idea that
black women are dramatic and over the top and so
expressive that you can't really engage what they're actually saying
(06:51):
when it comes to their current health condition and health state.
There's so many tropes and stereotypes narratives of black women
circulating all around that it makes it very difficult for
them to get the care that they desperately need because
they're already at a disadvantage. They already live in polluted areas,
(07:14):
They already have a lack of resources financial, food, water,
otherwise that they would need to live full, healthy lives.
They already lack that. And then they go to the hospital.
They go to the doctor and nobody's listening, nobody's engaging
what their concerns are. And it's tragic, and it leads
(07:37):
to negative birth outcomes. It leads to distrust of the
medical profession medical professionals, and it leads ultimately to I mean,
let's just be honest. It leads to people not going
to the doctor anymore. It leads to people not trusting
(07:58):
the healthcare system around them, which is also detrimental, which
also leads to negative birth outcomes. This is not something
that can be taken lightly. This is not something that
we can just brush aside and say, hey, get it together,
everything's gonna be fine. Don't worry your overstating what's happening here.
(08:22):
That's not the case. Black women need to be heard.
They need to be listened to thoughtfully. Their pain matters,
their perspective matters, the way they understand the situation that
they're currently in matters, and we need to ensure that people,
(08:44):
especially those in their health care profession and I'm talking
physical health and mental health, need to acknowledge that when
a black woman gives birth and goes into a deep depression,
you know, for anyone else it's just postpartum depression. We
understand what it is. We support them the way we
should Black women owe what's going on. Come on, get up,
(09:07):
You're stronger and better than that. Let's get going. Your
child needs you. All these things that serve to negate
the real and true and very common experience that comes
from giving birth, we can't allow that to happen. And
(09:27):
so for me, as an environmental engineer, obviously I can't
help you with diagnosing your symptoms or understanding the situations
that you're in, or having some medical intervention to support
you during your pregnancy or post pregnancy or anything like that,
but we can work harder to make sure that your
(09:48):
environment is safer, right, that your environment is cleaner, that
your environment is a healthy place to raise your family.
We can do that. Didn't allow for our families, black families,
or any other family to live in areas where you
(10:10):
don't trust the quality of the water, where the air
is not breathable, where there's no access to food anywhere
near you, or the only access you have is to
the most unhealthy, salt laden, sugar laden snacks that you
can find. We need to build and provide safe, healthy
(10:37):
environments for you to exist in. And that's the thing
that gets missed a lot of times when we talk
about black maternal health or any other type of health concern.
The environment that you're in contributes directly to the kind
of health outcomes you experience. The public health officials call
(11:01):
it social determinants of health. Are these things that are
in our society, that are around us, that contribute and
in many ways, determine the health outcomes you'll experience. So
it's not just your own personal behavior, it's not just
your access to health care, but it's also where you live.
(11:22):
Your education, what are you learning. Is your environment safe
to go to school in, to work in? Do you
have green space, parks, hiking trails, biking trails, things that
promote healthy activity. Do you have healthy food around you
where you can go grocery shopping and make healthy meals
for your family? Are you dealing with discrimination, racism, misogyny, xenophobia,
(11:50):
all of these things they can damage you physically and
mentally and emotionally. These are all a social determinants of health.
We have to make sure that we're creating the kinds
of environments that promote healthy living, thriving, and success for
(12:14):
all of us, not these environments that continue to make
it more and more difficult for you to take care
of yourself and your family. And so that's one of
the things that I want to make very clear on
this episode. And as you think through Black Maternal Health Week,
(12:35):
and as you think through the people that you know,
the black women that you've seen, that you've read about,
that you either know personally or that you have some
connection to, who have these horrifying stories about giving birth,
about getting prenatal care, about getting medication, about being treated
for different conditions while they're working through a pregnancy, think
(12:58):
about those social life aspects. Also, think about the environment,
think about the society that we live in and how
that also impacts the way that women, black women in particular,
receive care and support. All of these things matter. All
(13:22):
these things are important, and we should be aware of
all of them as we talk about any of these issues.
It just happens that today this week is Black Maternal
Health Week, and so we're talking about that specifically. And
I'll just be honest too. I mean, I'm married to
(13:42):
a black woman. We've had three children. We adopted our
fourth child. It's a great, great story, but those first
three deliveries very difficult. They care that my wife received
very problematic. We were very fortunate. And I'll just say this.
(14:04):
I'm not gonna get into details, but I'll say this.
Both of our moms are nurses, registered nurses with decades
of experience in various departments at hospitals. I see us
cardiovascular units, heart units, cancer units, young children, older people,
(14:25):
everything in between. They know all this stuff. So when
my wife was going through her prenatal appointments getting her care,
they were with her and they were able to head
off a lot of the nonsense that was coming from
the doctors that she was seeing, and a lot of
the suggestions that they were making because they understood the
(14:47):
healthcare industry. They understood medicine and pharmaceuticals and prenatal care,
and so they were able to step in and say, no,
we're not going to do that. No she's not taking
that medicine. No she needs this and not that. No
they shouldn't be doing that procedure. No we're not going
to take that approach because they had that training and background.
(15:09):
So we were very very fortunate to have that. I
know that most people don't. I know for a fact
that everybody doesn't have parents who are nurses who can
step in and show you very clearly what should or
shouldn't happen when you're getting treated. I already know that,
and so in light of that, we need to do
(15:32):
the kinds of things that really really support our black women,
especially when they're giving birth to our black children. We
have to support them, we have to care, and we
have to recognize the challenges that come along with being
a black female, I mean in America, but anywhere else
(15:54):
really and trying to build a family and start a family.
We've done a lot of different things to try to
deal with that issue, with those issues, and there are
lots of things that you can do as well. So,
for instance, and this might be controversial, I know it's controversial.
I know it's hard to think about it this way,
(16:15):
but the researchers, the public health officials, the medical schools
have all proven, they've proven that black female health outcomes
improve dramatically, dramatically when they have a black doctor. So
(16:39):
that's the first thing I would recommend. And I know
we want to pretend like we live in this kind
of color blind society and that all doctors are great doctors,
and you can't just assume that being the same color
as your doctor is going to do anything for you.
(17:00):
Unfortunately for you, the research says otherwise, black doctors improve
the health outcomes of black patience. It's just a fact.
And if you're fortunate enough to be in a place
where there's a black female doctor, you need to go
(17:20):
for that black female doctor. She's going to be highly qualified,
well trained, and understanding of the experience that you would
have had as a black woman in your pregnant state,
and she can engage you in ways that I would
argue nobody else really can. And so that's the first
(17:41):
thing that I want you to all know when we
think about how we can support our black women giving
birth and otherwise. The second thing is to listen, like
really listen, and really take heed of what is being
said and how things are being expressed when it comes
(18:06):
to what a woman's experiencing and what they believe the
solution is for that experience. Don't write it off, don't
ignore it, don't presume it's something else, don't just brush
it off as ranting and raving because of some other issue.
(18:29):
Really listen and really dial into what's being said, because
you can learn a lot, and at the very least,
you can gain the trust of your black female patient
as you listen and as you engage in that conversation
with an understand that they know their body better than
(18:52):
anyone else. They know how they're feeling better than anyone else.
When you say what's the pain level from a one
to ten and they say nine and a half, they're
not being ridiculous. It really does hurt that much. It
really is that painful. Listen and allow them to express
(19:14):
where they are and allow that expression to drive whatever
intervention takes place. We have to do that. We should,
and honestly we should do that for anybody. We should
all have that experience. I'm just saying it should happen here,
because it doesn't happen here. It gets ignored here, it
gets rejected here. And so we need to do that,
(19:35):
all of us. Everybody. You listen. I'm talking to myself too, like, Oh,
you're being so over the time. Oh why are you
being so ridiculous? No, no, No, they really feel that way.
My wife really feels that way, my daughter really feel
that way. Listen, listen and you'll learn something. And when
(19:57):
you go to the doctor and doctor's not listening, make
that doctor listen. No, listen, this is what's really going on.
Do it, because that is what our black women need,
and that's who they should get from us, from people
who are spouses, our from their brothers and sisters and
(20:17):
children and everybody who's connect to them. Listen in care.
Listen and care. And the last thing I'll say because
I'm not a medical professional, so I can't say anything
really detailed about health care interventions for black women things
like that. All I can say is we can help
(20:40):
build a better society around our black women. We can
do that. We can go and fight against systems of
injustice that continue to tear apart families that continue to
denegrate homes that these black women reside in. We can
(21:01):
do those things. We can do the type of work
that cleans up the environment around them around us, right
picking up trash, advocating for more green space, parks, libraries,
health care facilities, food stores, things like that. We can
(21:21):
do that kind of stuff because that has been shown
to also improve health outcomes for the people that live
in those neighborhoods. Because our environment makes a big difference
and has a big impact on what we experience and
how we live and operate in the world. It's just
(21:43):
the truth. It's just the truth, you know. I wish
I could say it doesn't matter. If you can get
to the doctor and get some treatment, then you'll be fine.
But that's not true. It's not true. If your water
is unclean, if you don't trust the food that you're
feeding your children, we gotta get out of there. We
(22:07):
gotta do something different. We gotta fix what we have
around us. And on that note too, this is a
side note. I just thought about this, but the products
that are marketed toward black families, black women in particular,
let's just get real, real gritty, right, the cosmetics the makeup,
(22:31):
the hair sprays, the gels, all the things that we
have pushed on our black women to try and create
what we believe is the ultimate sign of beauty and elegance.
We know from studies now tons of research has been
(22:51):
done to show how many toxic chemicals are in these products,
so many of them. They're so dangerous to expose yourself,
to dispose your children to. We have to do something
about that. We have to push for these chemicals to
be removed from these products. We to stop using these products.
(23:12):
I don't know how you feel about it, how you
feel about your hair, your skin, your body, but I
don't want you rubbing toxic chemicals on your skin. I
don't want you pressing your hair with toxic chemical agents
(23:34):
because it's no good for you and it doesn't help,
it doesn't lead to anything positive. And so all of
these things are environmental justice issues, all of them, from
how you take care of your body with products, to
the water you drink, the air you breathe, the school
(23:56):
you go to the place where you work, to the
health care facilities in your neighborhood, to the way you've
been treated by doctors that you encounter. All of These
things are environmental justice issues and they need to be
brought to bear on the reality that black maternal health
(24:18):
is horrible, especially in the United States of America. It's horrible,
and so for this Black Maternal Health Week, I want
us all to stop and think, what am I doing
to make my community, my environment healthier, safer, not just
(24:45):
for me, but for the vulnerable, marginalized people around me.
And in this case, I'm talking about the Black women
who are pregnant who need our support and our love
and care to get through the pregnancy, to deliver that
beautiful baby of theirs, and to raise that child in
(25:08):
a loving environment that's free from contamination and pollution, free
from crime, free from all of the social determinants of
health that would negatively impact their lives. We have to
think clearly about this. We have to be deliberate and
(25:30):
intentional about this. We need to advocate on the behalf
of black women everywhere who already know. They already know
that their healthcare is at best precarious and at worst
racist and discriminatory. They already know that. When I saw
(25:52):
that article a few years back, when Serena Williams, Serena
who is in my view the greatest athlete of all time.
She's tied for the record in Grand Slam of victories.
She is universally recognized as the greatest tennis player that
(26:16):
has ever crossed the court. Phenomenal athlete, phenomenal intellect, phenomenal everything.
She tells the story about how she almost died giving
birth to her child. And I'm sorry if Serena Williams,
with her resources, her physique, her intellect, her support system,
(26:40):
her access, still could be close to death from childbirth.
We have a serious problem. We have a serious problem,
and many of us, myself included, don't have the resources
that Serena Williams has. We don't have the access, said
Serena Williams has. And yet she's still fighting for her
(27:05):
life to give birth to her child. So many black
women have died on the operating bed giving birth to
their children. So many issues, and so look, it's Black
Maternal Health Week. We pause, we reflect, and we ask ourselves,
(27:29):
do we want to live in a world where our
black women, now, these are women. Look at the data.
I read the article the other day. They're in colleges
at a higher percentage than black men and other groups.
They're taking on more responsibilities at home financially and otherwise,
(27:51):
they're getting higher paying jobs, they're being asked to do more.
They're being pushed into these environments where they're being pressured
to deliver, produce, and then when they have a child,
when they're pregnant, these are their health outcomes. You can't
have it both ways. We're either gonna support our beautiful
(28:13):
Black women help in any way that we can, to
get them the care that they need, the place to
live that they should be living in, to support their families,
to support the future, or we're gonna let things go
the way they are and we're gonna be okay with
(28:34):
these disproportionate numbers of death in childbirth, these disproportionate numbers
of complications in childbirth, these disproportionate numbers of complaints and
problems during the prenatal process. Because of what we see
(28:56):
in our society, I'm not gonna stand for it, and
I'm going to continue on this microphone anywhere else I
can to at least bring awareness to the reality that
our black women in our society across the world, not
(29:19):
just in America, across the world are struggling to be
cared for in ways that would protect them and their children.
And so I don't know where you stand on this issue,
where you reside on the idea of Black Maternal Health
(29:42):
Week and the idea of pushing for solutions to some
of these challenges that black women face. But I would
hope that as you do your own research, as you
do your own analysis, as you read this podcast, look
at the resources and the description of the episode, think
through all of these different issues, and let's do something
(30:07):
to make the world a better place for everyone, but
especially our Black women, and especially our black pregnant women,
and especially our black pregnant women who have children that
they are raising and supporting, loving and caring for. That's
what we need to do. That's the charge, that is
(30:29):
what we should all be focusing on engine on, especially
during this particular week, which is Black Maternal Health Week.
And so go out and make this world a better
place for you and that black woman next to you,
all right, I hope you'll do it. And this has
(30:52):
been another episode of the Environmental Justice Lab. We are
for the people and for the planet. We will see
you next time. B
Welcome to the Environmental Justice Lab. I am your host,
doctor Leslie Joseph. Thank you so much for joining me.
And today's a special episode because this week is Black
Maternal Health Week, and so if you don't know, Black
Maternal Health Week runs from April eleventh through April seventeenth
(00:45):
here in the United States and I'm sure around the
world we can celebrate it. And it's just an opportunity
to pause and think about our Black women, their maternal
health and what we can do and how we can
think about ways to serve them better, because let's just
be honest, they have a hard time. They're not listened to,
(01:06):
they're not well respected. Our Black women, especially our pregnant ones,
are not highly regarded in the rooms where they are
trying to give birth, when they're trying to get prenatal care.
It is an awful, awful situation that they're currently well,
that they are consistently in when they're trying to get treatment,
(01:28):
when they're trying to get care and ultimately deliver a healthy,
happy baby. And so this week give us an opportunity
to think about that, to acknowledge the struggles that Black
women have, particularly in the prenatal world, and they just
think about what we can do to support and help
(01:51):
our Black women because the research is very clear, no
matter what income education, black women, all ages, all income levels,
all education levels, have the worst birth outcomes of anyone
(02:12):
else in our society. It's just a reality, and Black
Maternal Health Week gives us a chance to pause and
think about what we can do to confront that reality.
Just for a little background, this week was founded by
the Black Mama's Matter Alliance, which is a nonprofit national
(02:34):
network of organizations that focus on reproductive health and freedom
reproductive justice birth justice as they call it, and it
celebrates during this week the activism that's taking place, the
community that's been building around these issues and working towards
evidence based solutions to deal with these issues that black
(02:59):
women face when they're pregnant. Because if you spend thirty
seconds online, you will read some horrifying stories of everyone
from your local nurse down the street to celebrities who
have had horrifying birth stories because of the care that
(03:21):
they've received or didn't receive, and the lack of attention
that's been given to them when they're in their prenatal state.
It's just a reality and on this podcast, we talk
about environmental justice, environmental racism, environmental inequity, and we see
it very clearly when it comes to black maternal health. Right, So,
(03:46):
the ways in which the environments that surround these black
women's homes and their workplaces contribute to these negative birth outcomes,
ways in which they're viewed by the public. The racism,
the misogyny, all the things that come along with having
to exist in the world as a Black woman leads
(04:10):
to negative birth outcomes. The fact that many of our
black women are black. Households are found in areas of
a city where there's no food available, there's poor water quality,
the infrastructure is crumbling, all of these things. There's no hospitals,
there's no health care facilities nearby. All these things lead
(04:33):
to negative birth outcomes. And so we need to at
least first of all, acknowledge that reality. We need to
acknowledge it. This is clearly disproportionately a black female issue
when it comes to maternal health, because even as women
(04:57):
all across the board face wide varieties of discrimination and
massogyny and being othered in different ways, in the end,
you know, you're your white woman, you're young white females,
people from other predominant cultures. They take care of their daughters,
(05:21):
they take care of their wives, They make sure that
whatever's going on, their child bearing spouse gets what they
need to deliver a healthy baby, and then take care
of that baby at the house, usually with a lot
of support and a lot of help. That's not the
(05:42):
case for many black women, even ones with tremendous wealth
and resources. Their research has always has consistently shown us
that when black women go to the doctor, when they
come in pregnant, when they come in with issues and
health concerns, listen to, they're believed to be exaggerating their conditions.
(06:04):
They're believed to be exaggerating the pain that they're in,
They're believed to be, you know, exaggerating the urgency of
the matter that they're dealing with at the moment. Consistently,
the research has shown us that there's these kind of
racist ideas of black women being like these superhuman, heroic
(06:28):
figures that can withstand any kind of trauma, any kind
of pain without medical intervention. Right there's this idea that
black women are dramatic and over the top and so
expressive that you can't really engage what they're actually saying
(06:51):
when it comes to their current health condition and health state.
There's so many tropes and stereotypes narratives of black women
circulating all around that it makes it very difficult for
them to get the care that they desperately need because
they're already at a disadvantage. They already live in polluted areas,
(07:14):
They already have a lack of resources financial, food, water,
otherwise that they would need to live full, healthy lives.
They already lack that. And then they go to the hospital.
They go to the doctor and nobody's listening, nobody's engaging
what their concerns are. And it's tragic, and it leads
(07:37):
to negative birth outcomes. It leads to distrust of the
medical profession medical professionals, and it leads ultimately to I mean,
let's just be honest. It leads to people not going
to the doctor anymore. It leads to people not trusting
(07:58):
the healthcare system around them, which is also detrimental, which
also leads to negative birth outcomes. This is not something
that can be taken lightly. This is not something that
we can just brush aside and say, hey, get it together,
everything's gonna be fine. Don't worry your overstating what's happening here.
(08:22):
That's not the case. Black women need to be heard.
They need to be listened to thoughtfully. Their pain matters,
their perspective matters, the way they understand the situation that
they're currently in matters, and we need to ensure that people,
(08:44):
especially those in their health care profession and I'm talking
physical health and mental health, need to acknowledge that when
a black woman gives birth and goes into a deep depression,
you know, for anyone else it's just postpartum depression. We
understand what it is. We support them the way we
should Black women owe what's going on. Come on, get up,
(09:07):
You're stronger and better than that. Let's get going. Your
child needs you. All these things that serve to negate
the real and true and very common experience that comes
from giving birth, we can't allow that to happen. And
(09:27):
so for me, as an environmental engineer, obviously I can't
help you with diagnosing your symptoms or understanding the situations
that you're in, or having some medical intervention to support
you during your pregnancy or post pregnancy or anything like that,
but we can work harder to make sure that your
(09:48):
environment is safer, right, that your environment is cleaner, that
your environment is a healthy place to raise your family.
We can do that. Didn't allow for our families, black families,
or any other family to live in areas where you
(10:10):
don't trust the quality of the water, where the air
is not breathable, where there's no access to food anywhere
near you, or the only access you have is to
the most unhealthy, salt laden, sugar laden snacks that you
can find. We need to build and provide safe, healthy
(10:37):
environments for you to exist in. And that's the thing
that gets missed a lot of times when we talk
about black maternal health or any other type of health concern.
The environment that you're in contributes directly to the kind
of health outcomes you experience. The public health officials call
(11:01):
it social determinants of health. Are these things that are
in our society, that are around us, that contribute and
in many ways, determine the health outcomes you'll experience. So
it's not just your own personal behavior, it's not just
your access to health care, but it's also where you live.
(11:22):
Your education, what are you learning. Is your environment safe
to go to school in, to work in? Do you
have green space, parks, hiking trails, biking trails, things that
promote healthy activity. Do you have healthy food around you
where you can go grocery shopping and make healthy meals
for your family? Are you dealing with discrimination, racism, misogyny, xenophobia,
(11:50):
all of these things they can damage you physically and
mentally and emotionally. These are all a social determinants of health.
We have to make sure that we're creating the kinds
of environments that promote healthy living, thriving, and success for
(12:14):
all of us, not these environments that continue to make
it more and more difficult for you to take care
of yourself and your family. And so that's one of
the things that I want to make very clear on
this episode. And as you think through Black Maternal Health Week,
(12:35):
and as you think through the people that you know,
the black women that you've seen, that you've read about,
that you either know personally or that you have some
connection to, who have these horrifying stories about giving birth,
about getting prenatal care, about getting medication, about being treated
for different conditions while they're working through a pregnancy, think
(12:58):
about those social life aspects. Also, think about the environment,
think about the society that we live in and how
that also impacts the way that women, black women in particular,
receive care and support. All of these things matter. All
(13:22):
these things are important, and we should be aware of
all of them as we talk about any of these issues.
It just happens that today this week is Black Maternal
Health Week, and so we're talking about that specifically. And
I'll just be honest too. I mean, I'm married to
(13:42):
a black woman. We've had three children. We adopted our
fourth child. It's a great, great story, but those first
three deliveries very difficult. They care that my wife received
very problematic. We were very fortunate. And I'll just say this.
(14:04):
I'm not gonna get into details, but I'll say this.
Both of our moms are nurses, registered nurses with decades
of experience in various departments at hospitals. I see us
cardiovascular units, heart units, cancer units, young children, older people,
(14:25):
everything in between. They know all this stuff. So when
my wife was going through her prenatal appointments getting her care,
they were with her and they were able to head
off a lot of the nonsense that was coming from
the doctors that she was seeing, and a lot of
the suggestions that they were making because they understood the
(14:47):
healthcare industry. They understood medicine and pharmaceuticals and prenatal care,
and so they were able to step in and say, no,
we're not going to do that. No she's not taking
that medicine. No she needs this and not that. No
they shouldn't be doing that procedure. No we're not going
to take that approach because they had that training and background.
(15:09):
So we were very very fortunate to have that. I
know that most people don't. I know for a fact
that everybody doesn't have parents who are nurses who can
step in and show you very clearly what should or
shouldn't happen when you're getting treated. I already know that,
and so in light of that, we need to do
(15:32):
the kinds of things that really really support our black women,
especially when they're giving birth to our black children. We
have to support them, we have to care, and we
have to recognize the challenges that come along with being
a black female, I mean in America, but anywhere else
(15:54):
really and trying to build a family and start a family.
We've done a lot of different things to try to
deal with that issue, with those issues, and there are
lots of things that you can do as well. So,
for instance, and this might be controversial, I know it's controversial.
I know it's hard to think about it this way,
(16:15):
but the researchers, the public health officials, the medical schools
have all proven, they've proven that black female health outcomes
improve dramatically, dramatically when they have a black doctor. So
(16:39):
that's the first thing I would recommend. And I know
we want to pretend like we live in this kind
of color blind society and that all doctors are great doctors,
and you can't just assume that being the same color
as your doctor is going to do anything for you.
(17:00):
Unfortunately for you, the research says otherwise, black doctors improve
the health outcomes of black patience. It's just a fact.
And if you're fortunate enough to be in a place
where there's a black female doctor, you need to go
(17:20):
for that black female doctor. She's going to be highly qualified,
well trained, and understanding of the experience that you would
have had as a black woman in your pregnant state,
and she can engage you in ways that I would
argue nobody else really can. And so that's the first
(17:41):
thing that I want you to all know when we
think about how we can support our black women giving
birth and otherwise. The second thing is to listen, like
really listen, and really take heed of what is being
said and how things are being expressed when it comes
(18:06):
to what a woman's experiencing and what they believe the
solution is for that experience. Don't write it off, don't
ignore it, don't presume it's something else, don't just brush
it off as ranting and raving because of some other issue.
(18:29):
Really listen and really dial into what's being said, because
you can learn a lot, and at the very least,
you can gain the trust of your black female patient
as you listen and as you engage in that conversation
with an understand that they know their body better than
(18:52):
anyone else. They know how they're feeling better than anyone else.
When you say what's the pain level from a one
to ten and they say nine and a half, they're
not being ridiculous. It really does hurt that much. It
really is that painful. Listen and allow them to express
(19:14):
where they are and allow that expression to drive whatever
intervention takes place. We have to do that. We should,
and honestly we should do that for anybody. We should
all have that experience. I'm just saying it should happen here,
because it doesn't happen here. It gets ignored here, it
gets rejected here. And so we need to do that,
(19:35):
all of us. Everybody. You listen. I'm talking to myself too, like, Oh,
you're being so over the time. Oh why are you
being so ridiculous? No, no, No, they really feel that way.
My wife really feels that way, my daughter really feel
that way. Listen, listen and you'll learn something. And when
(19:57):
you go to the doctor and doctor's not listening, make
that doctor listen. No, listen, this is what's really going on.
Do it, because that is what our black women need,
and that's who they should get from us, from people
who are spouses, our from their brothers and sisters and
(20:17):
children and everybody who's connect to them. Listen in care.
Listen and care. And the last thing I'll say because
I'm not a medical professional, so I can't say anything
really detailed about health care interventions for black women things
like that. All I can say is we can help
(20:40):
build a better society around our black women. We can
do that. We can go and fight against systems of
injustice that continue to tear apart families that continue to
denegrate homes that these black women reside in. We can
(21:01):
do those things. We can do the type of work
that cleans up the environment around them around us, right
picking up trash, advocating for more green space, parks, libraries,
health care facilities, food stores, things like that. We can
(21:21):
do that kind of stuff because that has been shown
to also improve health outcomes for the people that live
in those neighborhoods. Because our environment makes a big difference
and has a big impact on what we experience and
how we live and operate in the world. It's just
(21:43):
the truth. It's just the truth, you know. I wish
I could say it doesn't matter. If you can get
to the doctor and get some treatment, then you'll be fine.
But that's not true. It's not true. If your water
is unclean, if you don't trust the food that you're
feeding your children, we gotta get out of there. We
(22:07):
gotta do something different. We gotta fix what we have
around us. And on that note too, this is a
side note. I just thought about this, but the products
that are marketed toward black families, black women in particular,
let's just get real, real gritty, right, the cosmetics the makeup,
(22:31):
the hair sprays, the gels, all the things that we
have pushed on our black women to try and create
what we believe is the ultimate sign of beauty and elegance.
We know from studies now tons of research has been
(22:51):
done to show how many toxic chemicals are in these products,
so many of them. They're so dangerous to expose yourself,
to dispose your children to. We have to do something
about that. We have to push for these chemicals to
be removed from these products. We to stop using these products.
(23:12):
I don't know how you feel about it, how you
feel about your hair, your skin, your body, but I
don't want you rubbing toxic chemicals on your skin. I
don't want you pressing your hair with toxic chemical agents
(23:34):
because it's no good for you and it doesn't help,
it doesn't lead to anything positive. And so all of
these things are environmental justice issues, all of them, from
how you take care of your body with products, to
the water you drink, the air you breathe, the school
(23:56):
you go to the place where you work, to the
health care facilities in your neighborhood, to the way you've
been treated by doctors that you encounter. All of These
things are environmental justice issues and they need to be
brought to bear on the reality that black maternal health
(24:18):
is horrible, especially in the United States of America. It's horrible,
and so for this Black Maternal Health Week, I want
us all to stop and think, what am I doing
to make my community, my environment healthier, safer, not just
(24:45):
for me, but for the vulnerable, marginalized people around me.
And in this case, I'm talking about the Black women
who are pregnant who need our support and our love
and care to get through the pregnancy, to deliver that
beautiful baby of theirs, and to raise that child in
(25:08):
a loving environment that's free from contamination and pollution, free
from crime, free from all of the social determinants of
health that would negatively impact their lives. We have to
think clearly about this. We have to be deliberate and
(25:30):
intentional about this. We need to advocate on the behalf
of black women everywhere who already know. They already know
that their healthcare is at best precarious and at worst
racist and discriminatory. They already know that. When I saw
(25:52):
that article a few years back, when Serena Williams, Serena
who is in my view the greatest athlete of all time.
She's tied for the record in Grand Slam of victories.
She is universally recognized as the greatest tennis player that
(26:16):
has ever crossed the court. Phenomenal athlete, phenomenal intellect, phenomenal everything.
She tells the story about how she almost died giving
birth to her child. And I'm sorry if Serena Williams,
with her resources, her physique, her intellect, her support system,
(26:40):
her access, still could be close to death from childbirth.
We have a serious problem. We have a serious problem,
and many of us, myself included, don't have the resources
that Serena Williams has. We don't have the access, said
Serena Williams has. And yet she's still fighting for her
(27:05):
life to give birth to her child. So many black
women have died on the operating bed giving birth to
their children. So many issues, and so look, it's Black
Maternal Health Week. We pause, we reflect, and we ask ourselves,
(27:29):
do we want to live in a world where our
black women, now, these are women. Look at the data.
I read the article the other day. They're in colleges
at a higher percentage than black men and other groups.
They're taking on more responsibilities at home financially and otherwise,
(27:51):
they're getting higher paying jobs, they're being asked to do more.
They're being pushed into these environments where they're being pressured
to deliver, produce, and then when they have a child,
when they're pregnant, these are their health outcomes. You can't
have it both ways. We're either gonna support our beautiful
(28:13):
Black women help in any way that we can, to
get them the care that they need, the place to
live that they should be living in, to support their families,
to support the future, or we're gonna let things go
the way they are and we're gonna be okay with
(28:34):
these disproportionate numbers of death in childbirth, these disproportionate numbers
of complications in childbirth, these disproportionate numbers of complaints and
problems during the prenatal process. Because of what we see
(28:56):
in our society, I'm not gonna stand for it, and
I'm going to continue on this microphone anywhere else I
can to at least bring awareness to the reality that
our black women in our society across the world, not
(29:19):
just in America, across the world are struggling to be
cared for in ways that would protect them and their children.
And so I don't know where you stand on this issue,
where you reside on the idea of Black Maternal Health
(29:42):
Week and the idea of pushing for solutions to some
of these challenges that black women face. But I would
hope that as you do your own research, as you
do your own analysis, as you read this podcast, look
at the resources and the description of the episode, think
through all of these different issues, and let's do something
(30:07):
to make the world a better place for everyone, but
especially our Black women, and especially our black pregnant women,
and especially our black pregnant women who have children that
they are raising and supporting, loving and caring for. That's
what we need to do. That's the charge, that is
(30:29):
what we should all be focusing on engine on, especially
during this particular week, which is Black Maternal Health Week.
And so go out and make this world a better
place for you and that black woman next to you,
all right, I hope you'll do it. And this has
(30:52):
been another episode of the Environmental Justice Lab. We are
for the people and for the planet. We will see
you next time. B
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.