January 3, 2026 • 13 mins
In this latest edition of The Epstein Files Unsealed we get a look at the sworn statement and recorded interviews of a teenage girl who became entangled in Jeffrey Epstein’s trafficking operation after being recruited by another minor, identified in the records as “Haley.” The girl initially described being told she was simply going along to collect money and go shopping, with no clear explanation of what would occur. She recounted being taken to Epstein’s Palm Beach home, passing through security, and being left alone upstairs with Epstein after Haley remained downstairs. Under pressure and confusion, she was instructed to undress and give Epstein a massage, during which he masturbated and made sexually explicit comments. She was then paid $300 and sent away, with Epstein acting casually afterward and encouraging her to return. The girl’s testimony shows she did not understand the full nature of what was expected of her until she was already isolated and in the situation, a pattern consistent with grooming and coercion rather than informed consent.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
source:
Epstein Part 08 (Redacted).pdf
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
source:
Epstein Part 08 (Redacted).pdf
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to start taking
a look at an interview, a phone interview that detective
Michelle Pagan had with one of the accusers during that
Florida investigation. Now, Michelle Pegan is one of the investigators,
(00:20):
the detectives that was on this case, and this document
was recently unsealed as part of the Epstein Transparency Act.
Now doing the questioning is Michelle Pegan. And then there's
somebody named Kathy Back, and then of course there is
going to be the survivor themselves. So let's get started. MP.
(00:46):
Which is Michelle Pegan, ID number eight zero five nine,
reference case number zero five DASH three six eight. The
time now by my watch is approximately six minutes past
two pm on three ffteen O five U n K.
Just high Ridge Family Center MP, which is Michelle Pagane. Okay,
(01:08):
the high Ridge Family Center president. Also, could you state
your name please redacted pagone. Spell your name please answer
redacted pagone and your date of birth answer redacted pagone
And you are answer Kathy Back family therapist pagone. Could
(01:29):
you spell your name please answer by Kathy Black or
Kathy Back. Excuse me, Ka T H Y B A C. K. Pagone,
and you're her family therapist? Am I correct? Back? Yes, Pagone, Okay,
I'm here today redacted, and I have stated briefly why
(01:50):
I'm here is in reference to an incident that happened
to a friend of yours or a girl that you know.
I'm not sure if she's a friend of yours or not,
but by the name of Hayley, do you know what
I'm talking about? Redacted? Yes, Pagone, Okay, I hear your
voice got very low all of a sudden, So if
you don't mind, redacted. Oh, okay, Pagone, I'll even hold it. Okay,
(02:12):
can you tell me how you know Hayley redacted? She's
my ex boyfriend's cousin. And now that we have established
that it's Michelle Pagan doing the questioning and redacted doing
the answering, we're going to go back to the standard
way we do it. I'll do question and then answer.
When I say question, that's Michelle Pegan. When I say answer,
(02:34):
that will be from the redacted person that's being interviewed. Question,
and what's your ex boyfriend's name redacted, Zach Bryan. Question
is that his last name? Brian? Answer yes? Question what
school does he go to? Answer Summit Christian School. Question
(02:57):
and you said he's your ex boyfriend? How long ago? Redacted?
I don't know, like two months, two months and a
half ago? Question How long did you go out with them?
Answer three weeks? Question not long? And Haley, you met
her through Zach? Answer yeah, I met her when I
went to dinner at his grandmother's house. Question okay, and
(03:19):
do you know Haley's last name? Answer no, I don't.
Question do you know where she lives? Answer yes, she
lives on seventy second Street, four streets away from me.
Question okay, and tell me now what happened with Haley?
Answer okay, Well, the third time of hanging out with Haley,
because I was a cousin, well, Zach, and we were
(03:40):
over there watching a movie and this guy called, or
actually it was a woman, but it was for a guy,
and she's talking to Haley and then she said that,
well I don't know exactly what the woman said, but
she said, do you have anybody left with you? And
Haley said yes, And then she said, are you bringing
them to the guy's house in Gardens or wherever he lives,
and she said, I don't know, I'll call you back.
(04:02):
And then she told Zach that I was going to
come with her to this guy's house, so that so
that she was going to get paid, like I don't
know how much money, but this man's been paying money,
and that she was going to bring me along. And
then Zach was like, no, you're not taking her. And
then she's like, well, I'll ask her. And then she
just told me. She didn't tell me what she's going
(04:22):
to do. She just told me she's going to some
old guy's house and inaudible, get my shoes in, go shopping.
So I was like okay, and then we went. I
don't know what day it was because she picked me up.
I'm pretty sure it was a Saturday or a Sunday.
So she picked me up and when we get in
the car and she inaudible, and then we left and
(04:43):
we were still driving and we went to his house
and we were waiting in the kitchen and the old
man came in and he's like, hello, I don't even
know I think it's Jeff. I'm Jeff. And then we
I'm like redacted and then she went upstairs and I
guess gave him money and she went back downstairs. We
weren't there. We were only there for thirty minutes, and
(05:04):
then we left. And then we go to Marshall's to
go get some a skirt and a purse. But she
didn't get the skirt. She only ended up getting the purse.
And that was like a black purse. Question, that's all
that happened. Answer, Uh huh. Question, Well, I'm hearing a
lot more happened. Answer like what I know? Like what
went around the school? Question like what went around the school?
(05:28):
Tell me what happened at school? Answer? In school, everybody
was saying that I got paid with the three hundred
dollars for the old man, that old guy, because he's Oh.
First of all, is that I got singered by the
old man, And then it was I had sex with
the old man, and then it was I'm a prostitute
and I got paid three hundred. Question? And who was
(05:50):
spreading these rumors? Answer this girl? She used to be
my friend, Sheena. But I guess question where would she get?
Answer after she cuts off the question from Zach because
I broke up with him? Well, that's what I think.
I think when I broke up with him, he got
very mad and told the girl because this girl she
(06:10):
hated me because I went out with him and she
likes them. Question which girl is this? Answer Shina question
Shena like Zach. Answer yes, question went out with them
so she started these rumors. Answer because I went out
to the fair and she was supposed to go with him,
(06:32):
but I guess he didn't like her, and then we
started talking and she got mad because I was talking
to him. Question what does can you tell me more
about Hayley? Answer? I don't really know that much. All
I know is that she The only thing I know
about her is that her boyfriend but then they broke up.
Like she met him at a party, That's the only
(06:52):
thing I know, and that she has brown hair, And
like I don't really know about her. I went to
her house. Question are you telling me and want you
to know something? Okay? Answer uh huh. Question regardless of
what had happened. Okay, I'm being very honest. You're not
in trouble for anything. Answer I know. Question whether you
(07:14):
did something with this man or not? Answer uh huh.
Question whether you did something with this man? What I'm
trying to do is find out if this type of
thing is going on and you're not the only one.
And I don't think you are the only one. Answer
I don't think so either. Because the other kid, Anthony,
he knows Haley too, and I cause he's telling me,
(07:36):
He's like, where do you know Hailey? And then I
was like, she's my boyfriend's cousin. Oh that girl's bad,
And I'm like, oh, okay, too bad. Question did you
do anything with this man? Answer? No, we just went
upstairs and just got money. And I don't know. Question
what did you do when you went upstairs? Answer? I
(07:58):
don't It was me in the kitchen if you went
upstairs with the for like five minutes. Question who went upstairs?
Answer the old guy? I think his name. I'm pretty
sure that his name's Jeff and Hayley and the woman
I don't know. I think it's his assistant. Question Okay,
do you remember what her name was? Answer? I have
(08:18):
no idea what her name was? Question can you describe
her to me? Answer? Blonde, tall, taller than me? Question
how tall are you? Answer? I have no idea. Five
something question okay? And they didn't talk about anything in
front of you. Answer. No, They just I introduced myself
and I was like, he goes, hi, I'm Jeff, and
(08:39):
I was like, hi, I'm redacted. And then they were like, okay,
you can come with us. And then they walked upstairs
through the kitchen and then like a little doorway and
the stairs going up, and all I could see was
like a picture on the wall as you go up. Question. Okay,
so you're describing it with your hands, so in front
of you as a kitchen answer like the door is here?
(09:01):
Question to the right as a door answer, uh huh.
And then you walk in and there's a table with
like a sink right there that was the big island
table question uh huh. Answer, And there's like a little
circle of chairs that you could sit on answer a
question stools, answer stools. And we were just sitting there
(09:22):
waiting because he wasn't there yet. Then he came inside
after we were standing there about five minutes because like
there was a gate and a bodyguard guy. When we
opened the gate and knocked on the door security, some
guy like a bodyguard kind of type of guy, same
guy walked up and he's like, excuse me, what are
you here? For and we're here to see Jeff. And
then he was okay, well come inside, Jeff will be
(09:43):
here in like five minutes. And then we waited and
he was like, you can help yourself to a drink,
and then he left. And then two minutes after the
guy left, Jeff and a lady walked in and they
introduced themselves and we're like, hi, my name is redacted,
and then she's like Haley and all, and then there's
like a walk in door thing and you walk in
like a cabinet thing, not a cabinet but the island thing,
(10:06):
and then the door would be right there. Question okay,
answer yeah. Question so they walked away out of your sight. Answer,
uh huh, Well there was another girl there. I was
never by myself. I don't remember the girl's name, but
she's Haley's friend. Question okay, answer she was Haley's. Question
(10:27):
what is Haley? Do you have any idea of what
why this woman? This assistant would ask if Haley had
anybody with her? Answer, I don't know, but you call
the lady. She really like an audible. I don't know
what's wrong. I mean when she walked in, she was
kind of like, I don't know, but she was just
she couldn't say anything about her. She was just first
(10:48):
name and then that's it. And then she was just
like right to the point. She didn't try to be friendly,
you know. Question what do you mean she didn't try
to be friendly. Answer she wasn't like hi, I'm like,
you know, she was just like hi. I don't remember
her name, but she said she was from Ohio. I
remember that. Question and your friend or Haley's friend stayed
(11:10):
in the car. Answer No, she was with us when
we walked in and she sat. She was just there.
She didn't do anything. She was with me. We were
right at the table, like we were sitting having a
conversation for like two seconds. Then Haley came back downstairs
and then she's like thanks, Jeff, and I'm like bye, Jeff,
and then the other girl was like bye, and then
we left. Question Okay, did Haley tell you what was
(11:33):
going on upstairs? Answer? No, she just I didn't ask because,
like Haley, the only reason I know the money was
to go shopping. Question did she give you any money? Answer?
Uh huh? Question how much money? Answer three hundred? Question
what did you do with the three hundred? Answer? I
didn't spend it. And then I went to school and
(11:55):
then my principal because I got into a fight with
a girl, Sheena, for saying that. Because she said that
I was I had done all of that to the
old man to get money, and that's not true. That's
why I got really angry when we inaudible before that.
And then I went to the office the principal, but
actually she didn't say anything at first, and then she
was like, Sheena told her side of the story. Can
(12:17):
I see her purse? And I was like, go ahead,
and I'm like yes. And then my dad, my dad,
and the principal and my stepmom they were like, why
did you do that with an old man? And who
is the old man? I'll kill him, blah blah blah.
And then I was like I didn't do anything. I
didn't do anything, and they didn't believe me, and I
kind of got mad at them, and then the whole thing.
(12:39):
That's when I moved back to my mom's house because
my dad thought I was a prostitute. Question you know
that just because something may have happened, that doesn't make
you a prostitute. Answer I know, question, Do you answer yes?
All right? We're gonna wrap up right here, and then
the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick
up where we left off. All of the information that
(13:00):
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to start taking
a look at an interview, a phone interview that detective
Michelle Pagan had with one of the accusers during that
Florida investigation. Now, Michelle Pegan is one of the investigators,
(00:20):
the detectives that was on this case, and this document
was recently unsealed as part of the Epstein Transparency Act.
Now doing the questioning is Michelle Pegan. And then there's
somebody named Kathy Back, and then of course there is
going to be the survivor themselves. So let's get started. MP.
(00:46):
Which is Michelle Pegan, ID number eight zero five nine,
reference case number zero five DASH three six eight. The
time now by my watch is approximately six minutes past
two pm on three ffteen O five U n K.
Just high Ridge Family Center MP, which is Michelle Pagane. Okay,
(01:08):
the high Ridge Family Center president. Also, could you state
your name please redacted pagone. Spell your name please answer
redacted pagone and your date of birth answer redacted pagone
And you are answer Kathy Back family therapist pagone. Could
(01:29):
you spell your name please answer by Kathy Black or
Kathy Back. Excuse me, Ka T H Y B A C. K. Pagone,
and you're her family therapist? Am I correct? Back? Yes, Pagone, Okay,
I'm here today redacted, and I have stated briefly why
(01:50):
I'm here is in reference to an incident that happened
to a friend of yours or a girl that you know.
I'm not sure if she's a friend of yours or not,
but by the name of Hayley, do you know what
I'm talking about? Redacted? Yes, Pagone, Okay, I hear your
voice got very low all of a sudden, So if
you don't mind, redacted. Oh, okay, Pagone, I'll even hold it. Okay,
(02:12):
can you tell me how you know Hayley redacted? She's
my ex boyfriend's cousin. And now that we have established
that it's Michelle Pagan doing the questioning and redacted doing
the answering, we're going to go back to the standard
way we do it. I'll do question and then answer.
When I say question, that's Michelle Pegan. When I say answer,
(02:34):
that will be from the redacted person that's being interviewed. Question,
and what's your ex boyfriend's name redacted, Zach Bryan. Question
is that his last name? Brian? Answer yes? Question what
school does he go to? Answer Summit Christian School. Question
(02:57):
and you said he's your ex boyfriend? How long ago? Redacted?
I don't know, like two months, two months and a
half ago? Question How long did you go out with them?
Answer three weeks? Question not long? And Haley, you met
her through Zach? Answer yeah, I met her when I
went to dinner at his grandmother's house. Question okay, and
(03:19):
do you know Haley's last name? Answer no, I don't.
Question do you know where she lives? Answer yes, she
lives on seventy second Street, four streets away from me.
Question okay, and tell me now what happened with Haley?
Answer okay, Well, the third time of hanging out with Haley,
because I was a cousin, well, Zach, and we were
(03:40):
over there watching a movie and this guy called, or
actually it was a woman, but it was for a guy,
and she's talking to Haley and then she said that,
well I don't know exactly what the woman said, but
she said, do you have anybody left with you? And
Haley said yes, And then she said, are you bringing
them to the guy's house in Gardens or wherever he lives,
and she said, I don't know, I'll call you back.
(04:02):
And then she told Zach that I was going to
come with her to this guy's house, so that so
that she was going to get paid, like I don't
know how much money, but this man's been paying money,
and that she was going to bring me along. And
then Zach was like, no, you're not taking her. And
then she's like, well, I'll ask her. And then she
just told me. She didn't tell me what she's going
(04:22):
to do. She just told me she's going to some
old guy's house and inaudible, get my shoes in, go shopping.
So I was like okay, and then we went. I
don't know what day it was because she picked me up.
I'm pretty sure it was a Saturday or a Sunday.
So she picked me up and when we get in
the car and she inaudible, and then we left and
(04:43):
we were still driving and we went to his house
and we were waiting in the kitchen and the old
man came in and he's like, hello, I don't even
know I think it's Jeff. I'm Jeff. And then we
I'm like redacted and then she went upstairs and I
guess gave him money and she went back downstairs. We
weren't there. We were only there for thirty minutes, and
(05:04):
then we left. And then we go to Marshall's to
go get some a skirt and a purse. But she
didn't get the skirt. She only ended up getting the purse.
And that was like a black purse. Question, that's all
that happened. Answer, Uh huh. Question, Well, I'm hearing a
lot more happened. Answer like what I know? Like what
went around the school? Question like what went around the school?
(05:28):
Tell me what happened at school? Answer? In school, everybody
was saying that I got paid with the three hundred
dollars for the old man, that old guy, because he's Oh.
First of all, is that I got singered by the
old man, And then it was I had sex with
the old man, and then it was I'm a prostitute
and I got paid three hundred. Question? And who was
(05:50):
spreading these rumors? Answer this girl? She used to be
my friend, Sheena. But I guess question where would she get?
Answer after she cuts off the question from Zach because
I broke up with him? Well, that's what I think.
I think when I broke up with him, he got
very mad and told the girl because this girl she
(06:10):
hated me because I went out with him and she
likes them. Question which girl is this? Answer Shina question
Shena like Zach. Answer yes, question went out with them
so she started these rumors. Answer because I went out
to the fair and she was supposed to go with him,
(06:32):
but I guess he didn't like her, and then we
started talking and she got mad because I was talking
to him. Question what does can you tell me more
about Hayley? Answer? I don't really know that much. All
I know is that she The only thing I know
about her is that her boyfriend but then they broke up.
Like she met him at a party, That's the only
(06:52):
thing I know, and that she has brown hair, And
like I don't really know about her. I went to
her house. Question are you telling me and want you
to know something? Okay? Answer uh huh. Question regardless of
what had happened. Okay, I'm being very honest. You're not
in trouble for anything. Answer I know. Question whether you
(07:14):
did something with this man or not? Answer uh huh.
Question whether you did something with this man? What I'm
trying to do is find out if this type of
thing is going on and you're not the only one.
And I don't think you are the only one. Answer
I don't think so either. Because the other kid, Anthony,
he knows Haley too, and I cause he's telling me,
(07:36):
He's like, where do you know Hailey? And then I
was like, she's my boyfriend's cousin. Oh that girl's bad,
And I'm like, oh, okay, too bad. Question did you
do anything with this man? Answer? No, we just went
upstairs and just got money. And I don't know. Question
what did you do when you went upstairs? Answer? I
(07:58):
don't It was me in the kitchen if you went
upstairs with the for like five minutes. Question who went upstairs?
Answer the old guy? I think his name. I'm pretty
sure that his name's Jeff and Hayley and the woman
I don't know. I think it's his assistant. Question Okay,
do you remember what her name was? Answer? I have
(08:18):
no idea what her name was? Question can you describe
her to me? Answer? Blonde, tall, taller than me? Question
how tall are you? Answer? I have no idea. Five
something question okay? And they didn't talk about anything in
front of you. Answer. No, They just I introduced myself
and I was like, he goes, hi, I'm Jeff, and
(08:39):
I was like, hi, I'm redacted. And then they were like, okay,
you can come with us. And then they walked upstairs
through the kitchen and then like a little doorway and
the stairs going up, and all I could see was
like a picture on the wall as you go up. Question. Okay,
so you're describing it with your hands, so in front
of you as a kitchen answer like the door is here?
(09:01):
Question to the right as a door answer, uh huh.
And then you walk in and there's a table with
like a sink right there that was the big island
table question uh huh. Answer, And there's like a little
circle of chairs that you could sit on answer a
question stools, answer stools. And we were just sitting there
(09:22):
waiting because he wasn't there yet. Then he came inside
after we were standing there about five minutes because like
there was a gate and a bodyguard guy. When we
opened the gate and knocked on the door security, some
guy like a bodyguard kind of type of guy, same
guy walked up and he's like, excuse me, what are
you here? For and we're here to see Jeff. And
then he was okay, well come inside, Jeff will be
(09:43):
here in like five minutes. And then we waited and
he was like, you can help yourself to a drink,
and then he left. And then two minutes after the
guy left, Jeff and a lady walked in and they
introduced themselves and we're like, hi, my name is redacted,
and then she's like Haley and all, and then there's
like a walk in door thing and you walk in
like a cabinet thing, not a cabinet but the island thing,
(10:06):
and then the door would be right there. Question okay,
answer yeah. Question so they walked away out of your sight. Answer,
uh huh, Well there was another girl there. I was
never by myself. I don't remember the girl's name, but
she's Haley's friend. Question okay, answer she was Haley's. Question
(10:27):
what is Haley? Do you have any idea of what
why this woman? This assistant would ask if Haley had
anybody with her? Answer, I don't know, but you call
the lady. She really like an audible. I don't know
what's wrong. I mean when she walked in, she was
kind of like, I don't know, but she was just
she couldn't say anything about her. She was just first
(10:48):
name and then that's it. And then she was just
like right to the point. She didn't try to be friendly,
you know. Question what do you mean she didn't try
to be friendly. Answer she wasn't like hi, I'm like,
you know, she was just like hi. I don't remember
her name, but she said she was from Ohio. I
remember that. Question and your friend or Haley's friend stayed
(11:10):
in the car. Answer No, she was with us when
we walked in and she sat. She was just there.
She didn't do anything. She was with me. We were
right at the table, like we were sitting having a
conversation for like two seconds. Then Haley came back downstairs
and then she's like thanks, Jeff, and I'm like bye, Jeff,
and then the other girl was like bye, and then
we left. Question Okay, did Haley tell you what was
(11:33):
going on upstairs? Answer? No, she just I didn't ask because,
like Haley, the only reason I know the money was
to go shopping. Question did she give you any money? Answer?
Uh huh? Question how much money? Answer three hundred? Question
what did you do with the three hundred? Answer? I
didn't spend it. And then I went to school and
(11:55):
then my principal because I got into a fight with
a girl, Sheena, for saying that. Because she said that
I was I had done all of that to the
old man to get money, and that's not true. That's
why I got really angry when we inaudible before that.
And then I went to the office the principal, but
actually she didn't say anything at first, and then she
was like, Sheena told her side of the story. Can
(12:17):
I see her purse? And I was like, go ahead,
and I'm like yes. And then my dad, my dad,
and the principal and my stepmom they were like, why
did you do that with an old man? And who
is the old man? I'll kill him, blah blah blah.
And then I was like I didn't do anything. I
didn't do anything, and they didn't believe me, and I
kind of got mad at them, and then the whole thing.
(12:39):
That's when I moved back to my mom's house because
my dad thought I was a prostitute. Question you know
that just because something may have happened, that doesn't make
you a prostitute. Answer I know, question, Do you answer yes?
All right? We're gonna wrap up right here, and then
the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick
up where we left off. All of the information that
(13:00):
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
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