Mega Edition: Carolyn Gives Testimony At The Maxwell Trial And An Interview After (1/3/25)

During the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, testimony from a woman identified as “Carolyn” focused on the mechanics of recruitment and grooming that brought young girls into Jeffrey Epstein’s orbit. Carolyn described how she was first approached as a teenager under the guise of legitimate work and easy money, only to find herself drawn into a world where sexualized behavior was quickly normalized. She testified that what began as vague or misleading promises escalated into explicit expectations, with little room to refuse once she was inside Epstein’s environment. Her account highlighted how confusion, financial pressure, and authority dynamics were used to keep young girls compliant and silent.


Carolyn’s testimony also placed Ghislaine Maxwell within that environment, describing Maxwell as a visible and authoritative presence in Epstein’s life and homes. She testified that Maxwell exercised control, gave instructions to staff, and appeared fully aware of the girls coming and going. According to Carolyn, Maxwell’s behavior conveyed ownership and supervision over the household, undermining claims that she was detached from or unaware of Epstein’s activities. By situating Maxwell inside the daily operations of Epstein’s residences, Carolyn’s account contributed to the broader narrative that Maxwell knowingly participated in maintaining the structure that enabled Epstein’s abuse.


After testifying, Carolyn gave an interview in which she emphasized that taking the stand was about setting the record straight rather than seeking attention or vindication. She described the experience as emotionally draining but necessary, explaining that she felt a responsibility to speak honestly about what she witnessed inside Jeffrey Epstein’s household and the environment that staff were expected to accept as normal. Carolyn reiterated that the routine presence of young girls was never subtle and that staff were implicitly discouraged from questioning what was happening. She also made clear that, in her view, Ghislaine Maxwell was not a peripheral figure but someone who exerted authority and awareness within that world. In reflecting on her testimony, Carolyn framed it as a way to counter years of minimization and denial, underscoring that the abuse Epstein carried out was enabled by a system that many people saw—and chose not to stop.


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Epstein chronicles Day seven of the Gallaine Maxwell trial just
wrapped up a little while ago and witnessed Carolyn, who
went into a incredibly disturbing account of what happened to
her at the hands of Maxwell and Epstein. She took

(00:20):
the brunt of the questioning today. She was on the
stand for most of the day and there were some
pretty testing moments during the exchanges. As usual, Ghlaine Maxwell's
legal team have kept up their full court press and
looked to destroy the credibility of each and every witness

(00:41):
that gets on the stand. Now, obviously we're going to
get to all of that, but there was also a
pretty shocking revelation that came at the end of the
day to day, and that was the prosecution saying that
they're going to be prepared to wrap their case up
by this week. Now, remember this is supposed to be

(01:02):
a five to six week trial according to the court
and the prosecutors. Now all of a sudden, all of
a sudden, today we're looking at it only being two weeks.
As far as the prosecution goes, you would think that
they'd have more up their sleeve, and it just goes

(01:24):
right to the point that I've been trying to make
forever to be honest with you, that I have no
confidence that the federal government of the United States has
any interest in really bringing people who were involved in
this to justice. They're throwing a little red meat here, right, folks. Ah,
you know, in the interest of appearances, will pursue this

(01:48):
a little bit. But in reality, if they really wanted
to go after these people, if they really wanted to
make sure that this all stuck, then this would have
been a recon case. But now they're using this smaller
scope the ten year period, and it certainly looks like

(02:09):
the prosecution, at least from where I'm sitting, is not
doing that great of a job. Now, the witness testimony
has been pretty damning, There's no doubt about it. When
you listen to these girls recount what occurred to the
occurred to them at the hands of Maxwell and Epstein

(02:30):
and their cohorts, it's distressing as hell. But there is
so much more here that the prosecutions just leaving in
the toolbox. And again it goes back to the original strategy.
Why is it that only these four girls are being
brought up as witnesses. We know that this is the

(02:54):
same exact thing that occurred the first time around. When
they impaneled the Grand Jerry down in Palm Beach, they
only brought one girl up to testify in front of
the Grand jury. And what did they do? They destroyed
her credibility because she talked to some boys on MySpace
at the time, and she drank and smoked some weeds,
So all of a sudden, her testimony is not credible.

(03:17):
And now fast forward to twenty twenty one and we
see the same thing happening. Now, where's all the outrage?
You know? You see all of these people who want
to march and go crazy and act the fool whenever
they can move the political football. But for something like this,
you would think that people would be up in arms.

(03:40):
So where is all of the solidarity with Jeffrey Epstein's survivors.
I would like to see that same kind of energy
put out there. But one thing I have learned in
the past, oh, I don't know, two and a half
three years of covering this case and investigating this case,
is that nobody, perhaps ever, when it comes to stuff

(04:02):
like this, has been forgotten more than these girls. It
has been an absolute travesty from start to finish. And now,
just when you think that there's a chance for some
of this stuff to come to light, just when you
think there's a chance that the doors might get blown
off of this thing, prosecution talks about resting their case.

(04:27):
So that caught me really off guard, honestly, and I
don't know what to think about it. So we'll have
to see a little bit more what comes out in
the overnight hours and into the morning about their strategy here.
But I don't understand how they can even begin to
think about resting their case. So we'll have to see

(04:51):
what their strategy is. But as usual, I am not
very confident at all, especially considering all of the circumstances
surrounding all of it. I told you folks from Jump
Street that I'm not confident in Maureen Comy. Why is
Maureen Comy who is also prosecuting Nicholas TARTAGLIONI Why is

(05:15):
she in charge of this case as well? So there's
just a lot of things that never made sense to me.
They still don't make sense to me, and I unfortunately
I figured and knew that even after this trial, there
would still be way too many questions and not enough
answers because this trial and the scope of this trial
was never large enough. Now, I honestly don't know if

(05:43):
or when we'll ever see any justice at this point, folks.
And that's just the truth of the matter, as far
as I can see it. It's a bit discouraging to
hear that the prosecution is ready to close their case now.
Maybe they think they've done enough to get a conviction already.
And like I said, the testimony was pretty damning. But

(06:07):
with all of the evidence that's available, all of the
stuff that's been out there, all of the stuff that
we have heard from these survivors about Maxwell and her behavior,
you would think that they'd really try and ram the
point home. You would think that they would bring a
parade of girls to come out and testify, even if

(06:29):
their testimony doesn't have to do with the actual charges.
Wouldn't that be showing that this is the kind of
person Maxwell is, kind of like character witnesses. You saw
it with Harvey Weinstein in a few instances. So it's
very disheartening to think that the prosecution is going to

(06:53):
be done here. But I guess we'll have to wait
and see, right, We'll have to see what comes of this,
and we'll have to see what the next couple of
days bring at the very least, because I'm hearing that
they're talking about being done on Thursday, resting their case
on Thursday, so one can only imagine what is on

(07:14):
deck for tomorrow. Before we get to that, however, why
don't we discuss what went down today inside of that
courtroom and take a look at some of the proceedings
that were underway in Day seven of the Glenn Maxwell trial.
So the trial kicks off pretty much the same way

(07:39):
as the other six day has the other the other
six days have, with the prosecutors and the defense arguing
before the jury even comes in, this time over Jane,
the witness who testified previously and what she told her
boyfriend and when she told them it. Judge Nathan decides
that if the prosecution wants to call them to testify,

(08:01):
then they'll have to call them after lunch. After that,
there was another sealed sidebar, and then the jury comes
out to Uh to get started, So they never ended
up bringing this uh other witness that they were talking
about bringing out to talk today to put under oath

(08:22):
and give their statement, So nothing came of that. Anyway,
Maureen comy handling things right now as far as the
first portion of the case today, and they continue on
with the FBI agent from yesterday and evidence is once

(08:43):
again provided. The agent was I was asked directly to
identify the people in the pictures, and the agent identifies
the people in the pictures as Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell. Uh.
These photos are relevant because they were found on CDs
from the twenty and nineteen raid of Epstein's and they

(09:04):
weren't protected by the NPA from two thousand and five,
by the way, And some of these CDs were found
in that safe that you know we've talked about several
times from the raid at Epstein's house when he was
arrested the second time around. They found a bunch of
stuff in that safe, diamonds, they found money, fake Saudi

(09:25):
Arabian passport, all sorts of things. And Epstein was known
to have some cash on hand so he can make
you know, payoffs to his cohorts or for his air quotes, massages,
stuff like that. But these CDs were found in twenty

(09:45):
and nineteen and the photos that were put into evidence
were showing Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell in these photos next
to the evidence that's put into the core is sealed
and prosecution they give the jurors instructions on where to
find that in their binders the sealed file portion. So

(10:11):
pictures are shown of Epstein and Maxwell hugging and then
otherwise close poses the ones that aren't sealed, and after
a short cross examination, the defense was done. So that
wrapped it up for the FBI agent who finished off
yesterday and started off today. It was about some of
the evidence that was procured in the first of the

(10:34):
second raid of Epstein in twenty nineteen. So this was
an FBI agent who was involved in that raid, who
was involved in handling the evidence, and this was somebody
who was putting the pieces together to show the connections
obviously between Maxwell and Epstein. Now, the next witness that

(10:56):
they call up onto the stand is Stephen Flatley, an
instructor from Quantico, which is the headquarters of the FBI,
and he's in charge of one of their digital departments
reconstructing hard drives and stuff like that. Comy goes on
to ask Flatly about one of the hard drives that

(11:17):
was registered to g Max and then referred to an
email address from mindstring, MindSpring, excuse me, that was Maxwell's
Comy goes on to ask about an email that discussed John,
which is interesting because remember Glenn Maxwell used to call
Juan Juana Lessi John, And when you look at the

(11:37):
things that she was talking about in this email, it
was obvious that she was talking about Juana Lessi considering
what his duties were as far as being Epstein's butler
slash housekeeper. So again shows the ties right, shows the connections.
She goes on to talk about, uh, several things that

(12:00):
John did poorly in this email, including a pool deck
being dirty and there being no pens. She also went
on to complain about massage creams that were left in
disarray in Epstein's bathroom. So we know that Juana Lessi
has already testified about the bathroom, the sex toys, the
massage oils and that stuff. So now we see an

(12:23):
email from Glene Maxwell herself from the gmax account talking
about this very thing, basically corroborating what Juanna Lessi said previously.
So this gentleman from Quantico went through the whole entire
spiel about you know, the computers, blah blah blah blah, blah,

(12:46):
and then we're back to sealing items. So now Exhibit
number four eighteen is offered up, but it's offered up
under seal, and that's pretty much it for the prosecution
as far as with this witness. The instructor from Quantico,

(13:06):
now Laura Mettinger for the defense, begins her cross by
asking several questions about computer files and if he, the
FBI agent, can say for sure if anything was changed
or not during copying, and he admits that he can't. Right,
he didn't have possession of this computer all the time.
He doesn't know what happened to it at all the time.

(13:28):
So what they're trying to do here is established that
there could have been somebody who could have messed with
some files. Not a very strong defense, not a very
strong strategy in my opinion, but that certainly looks to
be what they're trying to set up. They were also
talking about locations and if they could determine where Maxwell

(13:49):
was with the emails, but with it being emails from
a desktop computer, it would make geolocation a moot point,
so there wasn't anything that they could gleam from that.
And with that, that's it for this witness as well.

(14:11):
Meninger releases this witness and the early morning of the
proceedings is wrapped up. Now, like I said, the majority
of this was Carolyn, who is testifying under her first name,
and somebody who was allegedly abused by Maxwell and Epstein.

(14:31):
So Carolyn next up on the stand, and the prosecution
starts out asking some questions about her background, such as
how long she went to school for and she responds
that she dropped out school was done for her in
seventh grade. She also goes on to discuss how her
mother was an alcoholic. Now, remember, these are exactly the
kind of situations that Maxwell and Epstein thrived upon that

(14:57):
they were always looking for. They were looking for somebody
from a broken home or in a situation where they
needed financial help or other help. And they can swoop
in and offer that help, but only if you played
their game right, only if you came back to the
house for the massages, and only if you brought other girls,

(15:18):
and nothing was given for free. And we know that
it was their complete and utter m o. How many
of these girls were from disadvantaged backgrounds, How many of

(15:38):
them came from parents who had drug addiction or parents
who had money problems, working two jobs. And the sad
reality is, folks, those are the people that are always
prayed upon. They're the most vulnerable amongst us. And that
is exactly where Jeffrey at and Glainne Maxwell liked to

(16:01):
focus their attention. When she was asked how old she
was when she was first introduced to Epstein, she replied
that she was fourteen and that someone named Sean introduced them. Originally,
she says, she told Sean she was seventeen, but he
found out her real age at her birthday party. Now
think about that. She tells his duty seventeen, then at

(16:24):
the birthday party finds out she's fourteen. I mean, really, bro,
you're still hanging out with her? Really? She goes on
to tell the court that it was this relationship with
Sean that led to her meeting Virginia Roberts. According to Carolyn,
she was introduced to Epstein to give him massages so
she could make some money. Now, there was a whole

(16:48):
thing where Glenn Maxwell's legal team was throwing Virginia's name
around in this and we're going to get to that
a little a little bit further down here. But it
was quite transparent what they were trying to do. They
were trying to set it up as if Virginia Roberts
was a human trafficker and not Gallainne Maxwell, when in

(17:13):
reality it was Glainne Maxwell, according to all these reports
at the top of the food chain here giving the
orders for this to occur, normalizing all of this, grooming
all of them. She goes on to say, you know,

(17:34):
she had no education, She's from a broken home. She
was in need of cash, and that's why she went
to give Epstein those massages. Right, three hundred bucks is
a lot of money when you have nothing, and to
be able to get it multiple times a week. Carolyn
goes on to tell the court about meeting Glaine for

(17:54):
the first time and how she couldn't pronounce Maxwell's name,
so she just called her by her last name. She
said that Maxwell had shoulder length, black hair and an accent.
Carolyn said that Maxwell took off her clothes and Carolyn
left on her bra and underwear, she says. Carolyn then
tells the court that after forty five minutes of giving
Epstein a massage, he turned over he Epstein and him

(18:19):
and Virginia started to have sex. So we know from
Virginia's depositions, and we know from Virginia's reports that several
different accounts of it being a group type of thing
where Epstein was sexually abusing her in a group environment
and using that to normalize the process for the other victims.

(18:43):
It was just an absolutely draconian method that this man had,
and he used these young girls to bring other young
girls into his web. And what he would try and
do is give himself a bit of a buffer zone. Right.
Oh well, I wasn't paying them for sex, I you know,

(19:05):
I was paying them to come over and give me
a massage. And then he'd have several layers between himself
and the actual payment, just like a criminal mob boss.
So again I ask you, how is it that Rico
is not being used here? Prosecution then asked Carolyn Carolyn
about payment and how much she would receive, and she

(19:28):
said she received three hundred dollars. She wasn't sure how
much Virginia was given. She also stated that Maxwell asked
her for her phone number. So after this first time,
obviously Jeffrey Epstein was pleased and wanted to have Carolyn
come back for more air quotes, massages, and unfortunately that's

(19:51):
exactly what happened. Carolyn, when asked about how many times
she went to Epstein's, says that she went more than
one hundred times, at least two or three times a week,
from the time she was fourteen until she was eighteen.
She tells the court when asked why she went to Epstein's,
that three hundred dollars was a lot of money to
a young girl. This is something that we have discussed

(20:12):
a lot, and again, it is one of the easiest
ways for these people with gigantic amounts of financial resources
a huge influence to groom these girls who come from nothing,
and it's a process that is very, very, very effective. Unfortunately.

(20:38):
She recounts how when Maxwell would call, she would ask
Carolyn if she'd be able to see them if they
flew in. They also asked her about traveling and if
she could go overseas with them. She says she told
them that her mother would never allow it. When she
was asked if Maxwell newer age, Carolyn responds, she did know.

(20:59):
So let's frame that Maxwell's calling this fourteen year old
girl to try and get her to go overseas on trips.
For what possible reason could you want to bring this
fourteen year old girl on your trips with you overseas Hey,
it's ie tat is debased and absolutely disgusting. The assistant

(21:28):
US Attorney Pomerantz continues, Did Maxwell touch you? She asks?
To this, Carolyn responds with yes. When asked where on
the body she was touched, she says her breasts. She
says that Maxwell told her she had a great body
for Epstein and his friends. And his friends huh, very interesting. Again,
how is it that the prosecution is even talking about

(21:50):
arresting this case. None of Jeffrey Epstein's friends are gonna
get caught up here, nobody else? What about the co conspirators?
Sarah Vic, Sarah Vickers, Sarah Kelln Vickers is gonna skate here.
It's gross, It's really gross, and it just again shows
you that the justice system is completely broken, folks. Doesn't

(22:12):
matter who's in office, it doesn't matter which tribe is
in office and telling you, you know, whatever sweet lies
they feel like handing out. The fact of the matter is,
nothing ever changes, and the most vulnerable amongst us, meaning
all of us, basically compared to these people, continue to
get absolutely squashed. Also, if it was just a massage.

(22:38):
Why would Maxwell even comment on her body type? Right?
Why would it matter what her body type is if
she's getting a massage, It shouldn't matter one way or
the other. If she's big, small, anything in between, as
long as she can give a good massage. Right. But again,
this is a fourteen year old girl who was obviously
not brought over there for massages. It also details how

(23:00):
Epstein would ask her questions about her upbringing, again trying
to set those claws in right now, this was a
big one by prosecution in my opinion. They asked Carolyn
about payment and if Maxwell ever paid her. Carolyn stated
that Maxwell handed her three one hundred dollars bills, So
that establishes that Maxwell was paying her for these quote

(23:24):
unquote massages, and it also shows culpability right, shows that
she was a conspirator, a co conspirator. She knew that
these girls were being abused, according to their accounts, and
not only did she stand by and do nothing partake
in some cases, but she was also the one paying

(23:45):
the girls the money in some accounts. So again it
establishes big time that Glen Maxwell was a pivotal player
in this whole entire thing. Carolyn continued to talk about
Epstein and how he sent her gifts like concert tickets, lingerie,
probably Victoria's Secret, and a massage for Dummies book. Now

(24:09):
we heard about the Massage for Dummies book at least
a copy of it before from one of the previous raids,
So this must have been a book that they were
sending out all the time to try and get these
little girls hip to how to give a proper massage. Again,
it creeps me out, even saying that these people have
all the money in the world. Why in the hell

(24:31):
would these clowns be trying to get massages from these
young little girls if it wasn't for the purposes of
assaulting them. No other excuse, no other reason is logical
or makes sense. You don't bring a fourteen year old
girl over with no massage therapy experience to work the

(24:53):
kinks out. Carolyn was also asked by the process cutionin
if she ever brought other friends to Epstein's from massages,
and she says she brought three Amanda, Elle, who was
a year older than her, and then Tatum and Julie,
who were younger. She says she made six hundred and
the others made three hundred. So that was another stick

(25:18):
of Epstein's in Maxwell's and that's why some people call
it a sexual Ponzi scheme, right, a sexual assault ponzi scheme.
He would get these one girl involved in his abuse
and then he would set her out by giving her
money to bring other girls in. And at the same time,
the process was normalized because the original girl who was

(25:41):
groomed and brought into the circle is telling these other girls, how, oh,
this is just normal. You want to make a few
hundred bucks, you just got to give them a massage.
So these other girls come in and they think this
is normal behavior, and you see how it all works, right,
and it's disgusting. And in Palm Beach, we're talking dozens
and dozens of allegations like this in what was probably

(26:08):
a preemptive move considering the prosecution knew that the defense
was going to try and punch holes in Carolyn. They
talk about her drug addiction and what she spent the
money on, and she said she spent her money on drugs.
She also talks about giving birth and when asked if

(26:30):
she went back to Epstein, she says she did and
even went while she was pregnant. So again, it just
show it shows you the absolute hooks that these people
put in to these young girls. And we're not talking about,
you know, any gray area here. Okay, this is a

(26:52):
fourteen year old girl when she first came into Epstein's sphere.
There's no excuse for it, there's no defense for the
prosecution also asked her about jail time she did over
pawning a video game console, and she says she did time,
but then she went to drug treatment and therapy and

(27:14):
she is currently on medication to help her with her
drug addictions. One of those drugs is methadone, so obviously
she had an opiate opiate addiction, and this is very common, folks,
for people who suffer this kind of trauma. You're trying
to run from it, trying to hide from it, trying
to get away from yourself. So what's the easiest way
to do that, right, drugs. So you'll see a lot

(27:37):
of these girls who have unfortunately been caught up with
Maxwell and Epstein and people like them, turned to drugs,
and it's just a whole bad scene that follows it.
Asking about the Xbox issue and the father of her child, Sean,

(27:59):
she says that she has no been in touch with
him since her arrest. She has also asked if she
works or has ever worked for an escort service, to
which she answered sometimes. When asked what Maxwell did to her,
she tells the court she took pictures of her naked
and of course the other stuff with Epstein, and the
prosecution presses the issue and asks who decided who you

(28:20):
would sue, to which the defense objects. Judge Nathan sustains
their objection, so again setting it up because they know
the prosecute, I mean, the defense is gonna come hard
after her character, so they wanted it to get it
out there in open court that she A had a
drug problem, B did time, and c worked as an

(28:42):
escort after all of this occurred. But that really doesn't
matter in the long run, does it? Or in the
big picture, the trauma that she suffered at fourteen years
old obviously led her down this road. So how can
you begin to assail her and for her life choices
and for the things that have happened after she was

(29:07):
abused by Jeffrey Epstein and allegedly Maxwell. It is ridiculous now,
of course, it's it's the place of the defense to
try and do that, but I really hope that the
Jerry's paying attention to what's going on here. So that's
the end of it for the prosecution with Carolyn, and

(29:29):
they hand her over to the defense for the cross examination,
I mean for the yeah, the defense. For cross exam.
The defense asks if Sean was a friend of Virginia
Roberts' boyfriend Tony and if they smoked pot and drank
booze together. Carolyn answered that they didn't drink booze, so
obviously Sean and TONI were friends and they smoked pot,

(29:52):
just like I don't know everybody you know at this point.
I mean, really, who doesn't smoke pot? And to act
like smoking pot or drinking booze or anything like that
makes you not credible when it comes to something like
being assaulted is just banana's land for me. I can't
wrap my head around anything like that. And if I

(30:13):
was ever on a jerry and somebody tried to infer that,
I would definitely be thinking that they don't have much
else to go on, right, I'm gonna need some evidence.
She was asked if it was Virginia who told her
that she could make three hundred dollars, and she answered no.
What pagliuch is doing here is he's trying to attempt

(30:37):
to set the tone that Virginia was the trafficker, not Maxwell.
And he asked if Maxwell was there when she was
approached about making five hundred dollars, and Carolyn says, no,
Maxwell was not there, it was just her in Virginia. Again,
Maxwell states a name in court that they shouldn't, this
time using Carolyn's last name. So it's become a pattern

(30:58):
now right to the point where you have to ask yourself,
are they attempting to dox these witnesses because they shouldn't
be mentioning their names. Okay, they shouldn't be mentioning last names.
If these girls are testifying anonymously, then that's the way
it should be kept. But the scumbaggery that's being shown

(31:20):
here by Maxwell's lawyers, it's you get what you pay for.
Right when you're paying for this kind of money, these
guys are going and ladies are going to push the envelope,
and that's exactly what they're doing. So after all of
that nonsense and Glenn Maxwell's lawyers once again acting the fool,

(31:44):
judge Nathan calls for a lunch break. After they're done
with the lunch break, the cross examination begins in Earnest
and the defense begins by asking her about the FBI
notes from her twenty seventeen interview. Now, it's interesting because
the two the interviews that you have with the FBI,
those aren't, you know, the word of law, right, they're not.

(32:07):
The FBI isn't taking those not those notes word for word.
Those are notes. So I don't think that the defense
bringing that up is going to help them in the
long run here. I think it's kind of a moot
point and kind of a spinning of their wheels tactic. Now,
I know I said I'm not confident really in the
federal government, but I haven't seen much from Glenn Maxwell

(32:32):
as far as evidence proving that she's innocent here either.
So it is going to be very interesting, The defense says,
the FBI notes say that the woman had an unknown
accent to and to this, Carolyn disagrees. She says that
she told them that the woman had an accent. Uh.

(32:54):
Pagliuca continues that she knew what a British accent was,
but she said unknown. And once again he was implying
that she's a liar. Asking about the second time that
she went to Epstein's house, he says, so, for the
second visit, you sat in the kitchen and spoke with
the chef. Now, I'm guessing the timeframe lines up here

(33:17):
and that that chef was Adam Perry Lang. So it
definitely looks like that is the case as far as
the timelines are concerned. But that wasn't mentioned in court
or anything like that. Carolyn responds that she isn't sure
if that was her second visit or if it was
some time after that, And at this point, the defense

(33:38):
calls for the court to show the witness what she
said in two thousand and seven. So again back to
the FBI notes, which would signal to me that they
don't have much else to go on here, right. So
it's one of those interesting situations where I'm certainly not
confident in what we have seen as far as the

(33:58):
prosecutions performance. But at the same time, I haven't seen
a defense here that would get Maxwell off, at least
in my opinion. Carolyn tells the defense that the FBI
didn't ask her about Maxwell. Pagliuca presses by asking her

(34:21):
if she is saying the FBI put a gag on
what she could say, and she responds again that she
wasn't asked about Maxwell. And to this, the defense responds
by stating that she told the FBI about Sarah Kellen
Vickers or just Sarah and the Incubus tickets from Epstein,
and then Carolyn said that she responds yes to this,

(34:43):
So he is asking her about the whole entire gag
here on what she could or couldn't say, and she
says that there was no gag and that when they
pressed about the email with Maxwell about Sarah kelln Vickers,

(35:09):
that it was factual that she did get these Incubis
tickets from Epstein. So again it's more gifts, right, and
what the defense is trying to do here is point
out that it was Sarah Kellen Vickers and that it
was Jeffrey Epstein. It was everybody but Glenn Maxwell. That's
what the defense is trying to point out right here.

(35:30):
The defense also probes Carolyn about her move from Florida
to Georgia, and they asked her about the lawsuits that
she filed. Carolyn cuts them off and asks what they
have to do about what those have to do with
her moving to Georgia. Again. It's uh, one of those
things where if you're a witness on the stand, you

(35:53):
have to get frustrated right when you're getting peppered by
the defense here like this, So she is being absolutely hammered.
He's talking about why she moved from Georgia to Florida,
and he is basically saying that it was because she
had to go get clean, and she says that the

(36:16):
reason she was leaving is to escape from the trauma.
So right after this again, Maxwell calls for another break,
the afternoon break. At this point, coming back from the return, now,

(36:41):
Maureen call me asks how long the defense expects this
cross examination to go on for and there's no response
to the question. So the defense starts right in again
and they questioned Carolyn, and this time asking her if
she ever remembered using drugs when she was thirteen. Carolyn
says that if you consider pot a drug, then yes.

(37:02):
So again you see it, folks, And it's the story
right of the defense. Their job is to try and
continue to destroy the credibility, and it seems to me
anyway that all they have to go on as far
as credibility issues to destroy is the fact that this

(37:22):
girl might have smoked some pot, or she might have
hung out with some boys or something like that. It's ridiculous.
The defense then tries to leave the witness, stating that
she went to Georgia to get clean, but Carolyn says
that that wasn't the reason. She says she went there
to escape her past trauma, and the witness was asked

(37:47):
if she was doing cocaine when she was at Epstein's house,
and she responded note to that. The defense then refers
to previous lawsuits and reads, did you have sexual intercourse
with mister Epstein? Defense reads the answer no. Carolyn speaks
up during this and replies that she wasn't a willing participant.

(38:08):
So they were reading from those the documents, right, the
three to zero two's that the FBI provided, and the
defense reads it, did you have sexual intercourse with mister
Epstein and then the answer that Carolyn provided no. Now
in the middle of this, she stops the defense attorney

(38:29):
and she says that she wasn't a willing participant. That's
why she said she didn't have sexual intercourse with Epstein,
because she didn't she was raped by him, so it
wasn't in her course, she goes on to say that Maxwell,
that Glenn Maxwell fondled me and broke my soul. And

(38:52):
at this point the defense moves to get the comments
struck from the record, and Judge Nathan, after advising the
witness to follow the rules, orders the jury to disregard
that comment. She is had enough, right and you could
tell by at least just by the notes that we
had coming out, because remember, folks, this is just an

(39:14):
accumulation of different courtroom tweets and notes that are coming
out as the trial's going on. But you could tell
that she had had enough during this cross examination, and
there were several times here where she went off off
of the playbook and said stuff like that, Gawne Maxwell

(39:34):
fondled me and broke my soul. Can you imagine what
this girl went through in her life. Again, the defense
is probing about money received from the compensation fund and
Carolyn again goes off of the script and she says
that no amount of money can heal her. And as

(39:55):
she's saying this, she's cut off by the defense, who
once again moved to strike the witness from the record,
and once again Judge Nathan agrees. She orders the jury
to disregard the comment, and she again instructs the witness
to follow the rules. Carolyn's crying now, and the defense
asked if she claimed to have seen a picture of
Maxwell pregnant, and she responds she did nude and pregnant,

(40:20):
and she goes to continue her response, but the defense
cuts her off at this point, stating that they have
no further questions. With a few minutes left, Marine Comy
asks if if Caroline Carolyn is here to get money,
and she responds, no, she is here because what Maxwell
did is wrong. Again, the defense objects, the state ends

(40:42):
it they have no further questions for the witness, but
Pagliuca is not finished yet. He asked her about the
money she received in two thousand and nine, but the
money was gone by twenty twelve, and this was four
hundred and forty six thousand dollars. He asked her what
happened to it? She says she does no, she has
kids to take care of. The defense with their ham

(41:03):
handed approach, continues, you can't recall how you spend four
hundred and forty six thousand dollars. You lost all of it.
No further questions and with that, folks day number seven
comes to a close in the Gallain Maxwell trial. They're
sure is a lot to unpack today, and I'm sure

(41:24):
as the day goes on and we get more information
about the prosecution resting their case as soon as this week,
then maybe we'll have more clarity. But as of right now,
I don't even know what to say about the prosecution
preparing to rest its case now. As far as the
testimony given today, I thought that it was pretty powerful testimony.

(41:49):
It certainly sets the foundational blocks we've been talking about,
and it continues to connect the dots. So we'll see
what tomorrow morning brings. But one thing I can tell
you is it's going to be interesting, all right, everybody.

(42:10):
If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
at Bobby Kapuci at ProtonMail dot com. That's bo b
b y c ap you ce Ci at ProtonMail dot com.
You can also find me on Twitter at Bobby underscore
c ap you c CI. The links that we discussed

(42:30):
can be fad Epstein Chronicles. Tonight, we're gonna dive right
back in to the situation surrounding the civil suit between
Prince Andrew and Virginia Roberts. Now Virginia has produced receipt
after receipt to back up her claims throughout this whole
entire ordeal, whereas Prince Andrew has really provided nothing besides

(42:55):
the well, I'm rich, i'm a royal, I'm the Prince
of England, so you should believe me type of line.
And it really hasn't gone over well with people. And
after today and the new revelations that were about to discuss,
things aren't going to get much better for this guy.

(43:17):
As you all know, we heard from a witness during
the Gallain Maxwell trial named Carolyn. Well. Now she's coming
out and she's speaking with the Daily Mail and she's
telling them that when Virginia says that she was trafficked
to Prince Andrew, she sent Carolyn a message about the situation,

(43:42):
telling her what had happened. So what that means is
there's more corroboration here, and another receipt, another person who
was aware that this happened. And not only that, this
is a person that a jury already found believable, believable
enough that they convicted Maxwell. So the situation for Prince

(44:05):
Andrew has gone from bad to worse. And this is
a huge deal here Now, Carolyn coming out and foregoing
her anonymity to bring this to the table. Pretty brave
move byer. And as we all know, this is a
lady who's had a really hard life to put herself

(44:26):
continuously into the mix here like this after the Maxwell
situation well is supposedly finished. It takes a lot of courage.
So a lot of credit to Carolyn for coming forward
here to back up Virginia's claims. All right, so let's
jump into this article from the Daily Mail and let's

(44:48):
see what authors Stephen Wright and Barbara McMahon have to say. Headline,
Virginia Roberts told me she slept with Prince Andrew just
days after that trip to London with Jeffrey Epstein, key
witness at Glene Maxwell's trial. Bravely waives her anonymity and
makes sensational new claim. Now, remember, the court has already

(45:11):
found her trustworthy. The court and the jurors have already
found what she has to say worthwhile enough that they
used her account and her testimony to convict Glenn Maxwell.
So this isn't just some you know, person coming out
of the woodwork here. This is somebody who's already been
vetted and through the gauntlet. So this is a big,

(45:34):
big revelation and it's going to go a long way
to rock the boat of Uncle Touchy. Carolyn Andreano was
resentfully cleaning her bedroom, listening to music, and squabbling with
her mother, being a typical fourteen year old. In fact,
when the text came through, it was from her friend Virginia,

(45:54):
thousands of miles away in London. You'll never guess who
I'm with, it read. Carolyn knew this was going to
be a juicy bit of gossip and was quick to
respond who She replied eagerly a text ping back immediately
she said, I'm in London with Jeffrey and Maxwell and
Prince Andrew. Carolyn recalls she said they were going to

(46:15):
have dinner. I kind of didn't believe her, but I
had no reason not to. I thought it was far fetched,
but then again, she knew wealthy people and had been
to fancy parties and stuff like that. So what Carolyn
is saying here, and what this is doing, is corroborating
what Virginia has said from the very beginning, that she
had access to these people, that she was brought to

(46:36):
these parties, and that she was in fact with Prince Andrew.
And that picture of her with Prince Andrew his arm
around her, with Glaine Maxwell beaming in the background at
Glainne Maxwell's Belgravia pad is not a good look and
it's one of the biggest pieces of evidence that goes

(46:56):
to say that Virginia is telling the truth. Here. What
is this dude doing with a little sixteen year old girl,
seventeen year old girl, whatever it is. You're the Prince
of England, dude, you need and Jeffrey Epstein and Glaine
Maxwell to bring you girls to London. Yeah, you had
no idea what was going on though, did you? I

(47:20):
said bullshit. I was calling her out on it, but
she swore it was true. She said she was going
to see if she could get a picture. Of course
that Jeffrey and Maxwell the text referred to were disgraced financier,
pedophile and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who killed himself in
prison allegedly in twenty nineteen, and his then girlfriend, a
co conspirator, partner in crime, fellow child abuser, Gallainne Maxwell,

(47:45):
who was convicted of child sex trafficking and sex abuse
charges in New York last month and again it's that
picture that's going to really rock Prince Andrew's boat here,
And that's why they have been so forceful trying to
alleged that that picture is fake or somehow a forgery,
or that that's not Prince Andrew's fingers in it. And

(48:08):
you saw that line of thinking and that narrative being
pitched by not only Prince Andrew's team, but some other
knuckleheads who you know. I don't know if they're paid
trolls or whatever it is, but I don't know how
you could look at the situation, if you're not suffering
from a severe brain injury anyway, and not see that
Prince Andrew's obviously lying here. He wouldn't even admit to

(48:29):
knowing Virginia Roberts, yet there's a picture with him and
his arm wrapped around her. So why should we believe
you about anything if you can't even be truthful about
even meeting this girl in the first place. Carolyn and
Virginia then Roberts were members of the depraved couple's harem.
That's not what it was. They were part of a

(48:51):
sex trafficking ring, Okay, not a harem that infers that
they were concubines or something. These were children, a vulnerable
teens and young women recruited by Maxwell to provide sexual
favors for Epstein. Carolyn was a key prosecution witness at
Maxwell's trial. Then she gave evidence only as Carolyn. But

(49:11):
she has now bravely waived her legal right to anonymity
to speak exclusively to The Mail. And as much as
the Daily Mail catches flaky, they've been pretty good as
far as reporting on this story and covering the Prince
Andrew angle of it, They've done a lot better job
than our legacy media has done here covering someone like

(49:34):
Bill Clinton. When it comes to this whole entire ordeal,
the legacy media has been nowhere to be seen when
you're talking about Bill Clinton. Carolyn has received no fee
for this article, saying I'm not doing this because I
want I am doing this because I want all women
to know what happened to me when I was a

(49:54):
teenager and how it has affected my life. This is
my story and I want to tell it again. I
can't even begin to imagine what it's like to be her,
all these years of abuse, nobody believing you like you
are not even a human being, almost like you're worth nothing.
That's how these people treated her, including the system. And

(50:17):
then to have these lawyers just absolutely assault her character
while she's on the stand. That has to be rough. Now,
obviously that's the way it goes in a courtroom setting.
You know that that's coming. If you're going to provide
testimony in a case such as this, you know on
the cross examination you're gonna get battered. But still it

(50:37):
doesn't make it any more comfortable, comfortable to read about
or to hear about. It's still obscene to think that
people have to go through that on the stand. But
she did it, and now she's coming out telling her
story and corroborating what Virginia had to say about her
time with Prince Andrew and Glene Maxwell at the very

(50:58):
least about her being there. And that's a huge deal
considering Prince Andrew has said he's never even oh, I
don't even know who she is. Back in two thousand
and one, for the two young girls, it all felt
like a dangerous and lucrative game. A week after the
text exchange, true to her word, seventeen year old Virginia

(51:20):
came back from the UK and picked up Carolyn from
school keen to tell all. I said, so, where's your picture,
Miss Princess? Carolyn said, a photograph was duly produced. Now,
mind you, this is in two thousand and one. Okay,
so there weren't in photoshop banging away fixing the picture
up or anything like that. We've had two separate people specialists,

(51:43):
one a Kiwi photographer who had seen the picture, the
actual original copy, and others talk about how the photo
was authentic in the first place. So now you have
Carolyn also saying she saw the original all the way
back in the day. The image, Carolyn feels like it

(52:04):
was on a mobile phone, although camera phones weren't universally
available in two thousand and one and memories fade, so
it might have been a digital or disposable snap is
one of is one most people will be familiar with.
It shows Virginia grinning with Prince Andrew at her side,
his hand around her waist, and Glayne looking on proudly
in the background. Yeah, you know, hey, Prince Andrew, this

(52:26):
is I brought you a little seventeen year old American girl.
Aren't you excited? She's all proud of herself in the background,
you know, like when a cat brings you a mouse.
That's what it was like here, absolutely disgustingly pathetic. Carolyn
was duly impressed. But there was more, much more. Carolyn

(52:47):
was full of questions. I'd asked her if she'd been
to the palace and she said, I got to sleep
with him. I said, what, you're fucking with me? And
she said no, I got to sleep with him. She
didn't seem upset about it. If you thought it was
pretty cool. Yeah, well you think seventeen years old, you've
been groomed for all of this. You know, you get

(53:08):
to you brought to a prince's house, Glenn Maxwell's beautiful townhouse,
your jet setting with Epstein and Maxwell. That's why they
groom them. That's why they normalize the process. So they
think that all of this behavior is on the up
and up, and this is how normal people act in
the upper crust. If that wasn't the case, don't you

(53:29):
think they would just victimize people in their own a
socioeconomic class, people with money that they have access to already.
They don't do that because those people are not as
susceptible to fall into things like this, Because you can't
dangle two hundred bucks over their head and act like
it means something. But when you're poor and you have

(53:51):
nothing at all, and somebody shows up with ritz and
glamour and you know this whole high life that they're
pitching to you, that's a very hard turndown. Everybody wants
to achieve a little more, have a little more, have
a couple more bucks in their pocket, and when that
opportunity arises, and you're young and you're poor, you don't

(54:15):
make great decisions. This is the first time there has
been a contemporaneous and independent account of Virginia's purported recollection
of her meeting with the Duke of York that night
in March two thousand and one, which he strenuously denies
ever happened. Andrew is currently waiting to hear whether a

(54:36):
US judge will throw out Miss Robert's civil sex assault
against him. Virginia just couldn't believe it. Maxwell had told
her she had a surprise for her, and I guess
that surprise was Prince Andrew. She was excited. I guess
when you're meeting somebody that famous, I would have been
excited too, for sure. Again, like I just said, when
you're that young, especially and you come from nothing. I

(54:59):
know that I would be pumped up. Damn, I'm going
to meet the Prince of England. That's cool. We're going
to London. This is gonna be great. Then you get
over there and it's something completely different. She said they
had dinner and they had sex. She didn't say anything
about what they ate or where they were. That's not
what we were talking about. It was just that she
couldn't believe she got to sleep with Prince Andrew. I

(55:22):
kept saying, are you serious, and she said yeah. I
asked if she got paid to do it, and she
never gave me an answer. Well, I think at that
point she was so deep within Jeffrey Epstein's web that
it wasn't a you know, per act payout basis. Epstein
was just, you know, really getting the hooks dug in

(55:46):
at that point. Today, Carolyn is a life worn thirty
five year old married mother of five children aged between
five and seventeen, still living near a palm beach where
Epstein had a sprawling, thirteen million pounds mansion. She has
no issue with Andrew. She's never met him, nor is
she a huge fan of Virginia. She hasn't seen her

(56:06):
former friend in years, and it probably wouldn't be a
joyful reunion if they did meet. Hey, look that happens, right,
And I can't really blame Carolyn either. Again, when you're
talking about interpersonal relationships like this, with such a highly
charged issue, I can't even imagine the back and forth
that you go through in your own mind, never mind

(56:27):
dealing with other people who might have been around at
the time. Carolyn holds Virginia responsible for delivering her into
Epstein and Maxwell's clutches in the first place. Roberts has
admitted that she actively recruited young girls for Epstein, something
she says she bitterly regrets, and again, that was all
part of it. The fact of the matter is, the

(56:49):
cold heart truth is that's what Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn
Maxwell were doing. They would bring one girl in and
then they would have that girl groomed and have the
process normalized, and her job would be to bring in
other girls. And it was a pyramid scheme of sexual
abuse of young girls and children, and it was absolutely abhorrent.

(57:15):
Plus it should be noted the jury in New York
believed Carolyn's testimony wholeheartedly. Maxwell was convinced convicted unanimously on
five of the six charges against her. Four of the
guilty verdicts were underpinned by allegations made by Carolyn. The
most serious of them, of child sex trafficking of a minor,
applied to Carolyn alone and carries a maximum forty year

(57:38):
jail term. And when it was going on the actual
trial and we were hearing from Carolyn, it was heartbreaking.
I mean, I don't know about you folks out there.
I'm guessing a lot of you anyway, who live in
the big city or whatever, you have friends like Carolyn,
people you grew up with that you know, things happened
to them circumstances, and their lives have been hard, good

(58:02):
people too. So whenever I was hearing that testimony, I
was thinking about some of the people in my own
life that have had it rough, that have been through
things like this, and it's just heartbreaking to think how
big of a problem it really is when you're talking
about human trafficking, and a lot of the times, folks,
it's not on this scale either. It's the people you know,

(58:23):
the people in your neighborhood, the local pimp work in
the blade, and it's just a bad look all around,
and it's something as a society that we really have
to address. A juror this week broke cover to reveal
how members had been split initially as they deliberated over
some of the charges, but none of them ever doubted Carolyn. Today,

(58:47):
Carolyn seems older than her thirty five years. The clear
brown eyes of the sixteen year old Carolyn the age
when she was a regular visitor to Epstein's Palm Beach
mansion are the same, but smiles are a rare commodity nowadays.
I mean, it's hard to even attempt to understand what

(59:07):
she has been through. And I know that my own
personal struggles at times has been enough to make me
want to go absolutely batty, you know, losing loved ones
or missing out on career opportunities, whatever it may be.
But when you put that up and you stand it
against what these women have went through, someone like Carolyn,

(59:29):
it pales in comparison. So how can you even try
and draw on your own experience when it's something like this.
You cannot. All you can do is have empathy for
those who have went through it, and if they're willing
to talk, maybe offer an ear. But besides that, there's
really I mean, you can't put yourself and and someone
shoes who has went through this if you have never

(59:50):
dealt with it. A striking five foot nine inches, larger
than life character with a mane of dyed red curls
and a pensiont for un jewelry. You sense the tough
cookie exterior is a shield she's worn for a very
long time. There is a brief thaw when she hears
how the Jerry trusted her every word. I'm glad they

(01:00:10):
believed me and it was wrong that what Maxwell did
to me. I had a voice and it was heard.
It was so important because I have my own daughters now.
Every day I think about whether there's someone who's going
to put them in the situation I was in. I
live with fear for my girls. And that's another thing.
You being a parent these days, all of you out there,
which I'm sure a lot of you are being a parent,

(01:00:32):
must be rough, all these crazy lunatics running around you, don't.
I mean, when I was growing up, you were able
to play out in the streets and you know, you know,
calls all kinds of ruckus and stuff. Nowadays, I mean,
if I was a parent, i'd be very hard pressed
to let my kid run around unattended until they were
a certain age at least, and even then I'd be

(01:00:53):
freaking out. Probably, it's fair to say Carolyn has had
a hard life. Her suffering didn't end when she found
herself aged eighteen and a single mother, no longer to
Epstein's tastes, and duly redundant. In the intervening years, she
worked as a stripper and an escort, spent fifty two
days in prison for fraud, being addicted to drugs and drink,

(01:01:16):
and suffered mental health issues. She takes a cocktail of
medication just to get through the day. I was in
the sex industry. It was easy, that is what I
was taught, and I figured it was the easiest way
to get money for the drugs. I felt worthless. I
felt like I was just put here on earth to
be used and abused sexually. I looked at myself in

(01:01:36):
the mirror one time and just cried and cried. She said,
I mean, wow, imagine that's what you see every time
you look in the mirror, and those pieces of shit.
Epstein and Maxwell are the ones responsible for it all.
They're the ones who set her on this course, they're
the ones who gave her this trauma that there's no
way to overcome, and burdened her with a lifelong burden

(01:02:02):
of having to wade through this mental battle that she's
in with herself and her memories and her thoughts on
a daily basis. It's just it's really upsetting, and I'm
glad that at least for now, that the verdict has
come back with that guilty verdict and at least gives
her a little bit of justice here. There is no

(01:02:24):
amount of money in this world that will ever mend
what was stolen. My innocence is a child by Epstein
and Maxwell, who had been in cahoots for god knows
how many years. I have children, and I know as
a mother and as a woman, there's no way in
hell I could ever do something along those lines of
what Maxwell has done. Curiously, however, when it comes to

(01:02:46):
what allegedly happened between Virginia and Prince Andrew, she has
little sympathy for her former friend. I don't think Virginia
deserves any compensation. I don't think she was coerced into
doing anything. Hey, look, you're certainly entitled to her and
the dynamic between those two. You know, look, I know

(01:03:06):
that if I was in that situation, I would probably
harbor some resentment as well. Although she believed her friend's
account at the time, Carolyn adds, I don't think Virginia
deserves anything less than what maxwell getting, because she trafficked
me into a world of spiraling downward slopes and it
has taken my husband John twelve long years to get
me to love myself again. Hey, look again. I'm not

(01:03:30):
gonna sit here and tell you or anyone else how Carolyn,
how she should feel. She's the one that went through
all of this, She's the one that had to deal
with all of this. And as far as Virginia, she
was a child too. The whole entire thing is so
obscenely twisted and dark that there's not enough bleach on

(01:03:53):
earth to drink or to bathe in after all of
this to make yourself feel right. It is just so
gross to me. A vulnerable child with a troubled past
and chaotic home life. Carolyn was just thirteen when she
met Virginia Roberts. She dropped out of school and moved
to Florida from New York. Her mother was an alcoholic

(01:04:15):
and a drug addict, and she'd been abused by her
grandmother's partner when she was four. With a mother who
pretty much let her do what she wanted, Carolyn started
dating a seventeen year old called Sean, who was friends
with Virginia's boyfriend Tony when she was thirteen. And I mean, really, though,
seventeen and thirteen, what are you doing, bro? It's not
like nineteen and sixteen, right, I could see that you

(01:04:37):
guys were in high school together. Maybe seventeen and thirteen.
Come on, man. She remembers Virginia's Virginia as bubbly and friendly.
She had a way of making me feel comfortable, and
I trusted her. We became friends, and right away I
thought she would have she would have my best interests
no matter what. At heart, she knew how old I was,
and she knew I came from a broken home. Virginia

(01:05:00):
would pick Carolyn up from school and the four of
them used to hang out and smoke pot. I felt
pretty damn good about it because everybody else had to
walk home, or their mom or dad had to come
and pick them up. But I had a pretty friend
who was older with a car I thought I was
pretty cool for being her friend. And that's how it works, right,
That's how it goes. When you have an older friend

(01:05:22):
who might be involved in something unseemly, you get caught
up in it. I know, I've seen it plenty of times,
but something like this, this is a whole different animal. Right.
You have Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell, who would bring
in girls Virginia Roberts, Hailey Robson, Nadi Martsenkova even and

(01:05:45):
you would they their job would be, after the grooming
and the normalization process was performed on them, their job
would be to go out and get other girls. And
that was how Epstein and Maxwell planned on insulating themselves.
It's no different than when the mafia doesn't have a
phone conversation or whatever and the don orders a hit. Well,

(01:06:07):
he still ordered the hit, right, even though he didn't
perform it. He's the one who ordered it. And again,
that's why I always talk about Rico here as well,
because it opens up a whole new avenue to go
after these people. Carolyn described to the court how Virginia
had asked her if she'd like to go and make
some money. All she had to do was go to

(01:06:29):
a friend's house in Palm Beach and give him a massage.
The friend was Jeffrey Epstein, and his house was the
beachside Mansion, where girls were regularly enticed to tend to
his insatiable needs. At fourteen years old, I was big
breasted and was definite, and I definitely could pass for
twenty one. When I was made up. I did my
own makeup, but Virginia gave me clothes. She gave me

(01:06:50):
these really tight skimpy shorts with a spaghetti strap top
with all my cleavage, cleavage hanging out. She just said,
whatever you do, don't say your age. And I didn't
even ask why I went along with it. Of course,
she didn't ask why she was a kid. These were
all children here, and that's what really makes it the

(01:07:10):
first time around in Palm Beach, what makes it even
more insanely disgusting, and how they were able to get
away with it, how this wasn't a absolute breaking up
of the cabal here. I will never On that first
visit to Epstein's villa in two thousand and one, Carolyn

(01:07:32):
met Maxwell, who instructed Virginia to bring her upstairs and
show her what to do. They went to Epstein's bathroom,
where Virginia set up a massage table. Epstein came in.
He said, he just came back from a jog. He
brushed his teeth, gave Virginia a kiss on the cheek,
looked at me, introduced himself. He took off his shorts
and his shirt and was nude and laid on top

(01:07:54):
of the massage table, faced down, and I looked at
Virginia and she I motioned me to say it, don't worry,
it will be okay. Forty five minutes into the massage,
he flipped over. I stepped back, and Virginia climbed on
top of him and proceeded to have sex with him.
So you see, the point is here, Jeffrey Epstein was
manipulating this whole situation, and he was using these girls

(01:08:18):
to manipulate each other, and it was like basically a
psychological Dresden bombing run on these little girls. I didn't
know what I didn't know what to do or say
or where to go, so I, oh, excuse me, and
I didn't know where to go, so I sat on

(01:08:39):
the couch and watched until it was finished. We walked
back downstairs and Maxwell asked how did everything go. Virginia
gave her a look to say it was a great session,
and that's when Maxwell asked me for my telephone number.
Three hundred dollars bills were handed over as payment for
her time, and really, what the three hundred dollars is
is insulation so he could her a prostitute. That was

(01:09:02):
what he wanted to be able to do, and unfortunately
the state prosecutors were down with it, and all of
these little girls were considered prostitutes. As far as Jeffrey
Epstein were concerned, was concerned, especially after he started giving
out money to them once he paid them right, he
had that insulation, and we saw him use that excuse
in court. The massages always followed the same routine. A

(01:09:28):
number of girls, some she knew, some she didn't, all
of them young Robin Epstein's back and buttocks before he
flipped over. Although she and Epstein never had full sex,
she was sexually assaulted several times. One time Maxwell offered
to take Carolyn to Epstein's private island in the Caribbean.
I told her there was no way in hell my
mom was going to let me leave the country. I

(01:09:50):
told her I was fourteen. One day in two thousand
and two, Virginia simply disappeared, vanished poof Her boyfriend Tony
was really upset. So you know this Tony character too,
Him and Sean, both of those dudes hold some responsibility
in my opinion, for being guys that went along with this.
Now you gotta step up and protect your girlfriend here, boys.

(01:10:15):
Epstein told Carolyn she'd gone abroad for school, but she
was suspicious and worried something had happened to her friend.
It later transpired that Epstein had paid for her to
attend an international massage training school in Chiang Mai, Thailand.
It was here that Virginia met Robert Joffrey, an Australian
martial arts trainer, and the two quickly married. She contacted

(01:10:38):
Epstein to say she wouldn't be coming back. The following year,
Carolyn made a break for it too. Age sixteen, she
and her boyfriend ran away to Georgia, where Carolyn got pregnant.
Her son was born in March two thousand and four.
So look, a lot of times these girls don't get
away from people like this, And thankfully Virginia and Carolyn

(01:11:01):
were both able to get away, certainly not unscathed. But
at least they were able to make their break for it.
With money tight, she attempted to pick up the threads
of her old job with Epstein. He asked me if
I had any younger friends, and I said no, And
that's when I realized I was too old. I was eighteen.
In two thousand and seven, as the FBI started gathering

(01:11:23):
evidence against Epstein, Carolyn gave her first statement to prosecutors.
Last month, it was her turn in the witness stand.
I had rosary beads in my hands for the entire time,
and my husband was in the courtroom, and every time
I felt like I was getting weak, he would give
me a little thumbs up or I'd clench the beads.
I was determined to have the strength to have this

(01:11:44):
woman put away for what she did to me and
other young women. Hey props to her husband, by the way.
Props to her husband for standing up, being a real man,
showing her the support that she obviously needs, and being
there during the whole process of her healing or attempting
to heal. It is not an easy thing, and as

(01:12:04):
she deals with her demons, you know that there's blowback.
As far as the relationship goes with her husband, So
it's a definitely a nod in his direction and towards
his character, that that dude stuck around here and has
been with her throughout this. Sure, they accused me of lying,

(01:12:25):
but I knew that. I knew that was coming, and
I stood up to it because I was telling the
gods honest truth. She was permitted to use only her
first name throughout the trial, but now she's proud to
reveal her full identity to the world. I am not
ashamed of being a victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell.
For other girls that have been victimized, I want them

(01:12:45):
to know that it is okay to come out and
tell somebody, even if you don't want to be identified.
And the sooner the better. I want people to know
these terrible things have happened to me and that I
am a survivor. And you know what, that's exactly what
all of these girls are. All of these women in
this story, every other story out there, Every woman who

(01:13:06):
has survived or man or boy who has survived through
something like this is a survivor, not a victim that's
throwing some dirt on their name. Victims are people who
can't you know, who have no defense for themselves? Right?
These people have been victimized at certain points in their lives,
but they're certainly not victims. I want to let the

(01:13:33):
other victims know that there's no time frame on when
you can talk about it to get help. I'm very
happy being a wife and a mother, and i want
to show people how the tragedies in my life did
not stop me. I'm overcoming them, and I'm going to
let Maxwell and Epstein. I'm not going to let Maxwell
and Epstein ruin my life anymore. I'm grateful every day
when I wake up. And I'll tell you what, when

(01:13:56):
you go through a situation like this and you can
find the wherewithal to wake up every day, you know,
perform your motherly duties and you know the basic chores
of life, that's a victory unto itself. Now that she's
finding the courage to come forward here and really tell
her story and put these scumbags on blast, that's definitely

(01:14:20):
the signs of a survivor to me, folks. As for
Prince Andrew, she senses his story as far from over.
I never got to ask Virginia about Prince Andrew again.
After she told me about it, she told me never
to repeat it again. As for Virginia, her lawyer David Boyce,
stressed that it was important to remember that she too

(01:14:42):
was a victim of trafficking, despite everything she did to
bring Carolyn into the fold. Speaking to the Mail, he said,
Virginia has said for years that her role in facilitating
other young women's involvement is something that she has always regretted,
but that fact doesn't have anything to do with the
truth of her allegations. Nobody is saying these young, vulnerable

(01:15:03):
girls were perfect in every respect. They were susceptible to
the kind of threats they were subjected to, and it's
not at all surprising they did things they later regret.
How and if the queen's second eldest son deals with
his own personal tragedy unfolding in his private life remains
to be seen. Representatives for Andrew last night declined to

(01:15:24):
comment on Carolyn's revelations. So there's a lot to unpacked
there with Carolyn coming forward. For me, the most biggest bombshell,
if you will, is the fact that she's corroborating the
phone call between her and Virginia, and Virginia stating that
she was with Prince Andrew. I think that's a huge
deal coming out of this, and for Prince Andrew, oh boys,

(01:15:48):
in big trouble now. Again, I don't think he's going
to go to prison or anything like that, but I think,
in the manner of civilly speaking, I think that he
is in real big jeopardy here. And I don't think
Virginia is looking for a settlement. I think she's looking
to go to trial. Now. Again, I don't, you know,
speak with Virginia. I don't really you know, know Virginia

(01:16:09):
as far as you know, chatting with her about stuff
like this or anything. But my guess is and all
signs point to her wanting to go to trial here
with this dude and get everything out on the table
and exposed. But we'll see what happens, right, And as
this information comes out and we get more, we'll continue
to put meat on the bone and we'll continue to

(01:16:29):
add context so that moving forward, we have a complete
picture of what's going on here, because there sure is
a lot more to get to, folks, And every single
day we're hit with more questions then we get answers.
So I'll be here trying to decode it all with
you folks on a daily basis now as to Tomorrow

(01:16:54):
and Sunday will be our usual schedule. One show on Saturday,
one show on Sunday, and we'll keep it moving. Obviously,
there'll be more context episodes and stuff like that. I
have a series about the war on drugs that I
posted over at Beyond the Horizon a couple of months back.
I'm going to post that tomorrow. It's about Gary Webb

(01:17:15):
and him exposing the CIA for their drug running and
the crack explosion in America and how he ended up
dying after that reporting. I'm going to post a three
part series tomorrow dealing with that. I think a lot
of you will find it interesting. So that said, folks,
we're gonna wrap it up for tonight and I will

(01:17:36):
be back tomorrow. And if you want to contact me,
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.
That's bo bbuy cap you Cci at ProtonMail dot com.
You can also find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore
cap u Cci. The link that we discussed can be

(01:17:58):
found in the description box. If your home Internet comes
from