Mega Edition: Jeffrey Epstein And His Black Book (s) (12/25/25)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This article.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Like I said, Mother Jones headline, I called everyone in
Jeffrey Epstein's Little Black Book. What I learned about rich people, conspiracy, genius, Gilaine,
stand up comedy, and evil from two thousand phone calls.
And the author again is Leland Knolly, And a tip

(00:23):
of the cap to Leland for this article. This is
an in depth article, very very large article, and he
obviously did a.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Lot of work.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Two thousand phone calls. That's just it's like a nightmare
for me. I can't imagine sitting around making two thousand
phone calls. But I'll tell you this is an interesting
subject and an interesting way to go about the investigation.
Why not get right down to it and call some
of the people in this book. And that's exactly what
this author did. And a tip of the hat to you, Leland.

(00:55):
Good job, buddy. Jeffrey Epstein's Little Black is one of
the most cursed documents ever compiled in this miserable, dying country. Yeah, hey,
he's not wrong about that, right. Packs Americana ended the
day those planes hit the buildings, and it's just gotten
worse progressively since then. And I mean, honestly, it looks

(01:21):
like a country that's in its dying throes right now, America.
It's embarrassing. What's going on in the streets is embarrassing.
The way people conduct themselves is embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
It's just an.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Absolute shit show all the way around. And then you
add on the Little Black Book, and boy, oh boy,
that definitely is one of the worst of the worst
documents ever compiled, right, totally ninety seven pages and containing
the names, numbers, and addresses of a considerable cross section
of the global elite. Epstein's personal contact book first turned

(01:56):
up in a courtroom in two thousand and nine after
former butler Alfredo Rodriguez tried to sell it to lawyers
representing Epstein's survivors for fifty thousand dollars. Rodriguez described the book,
apparently assembled by Epstein's employees, as the Holy Grail.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Look, but you know again, I've always wondered, is it real?
Was it really Epstein's book anyway? How much of it
was Gilaane's. How much did Gilaine have to do with
the book? You know, a lot of She was in
charge of a lot of the social situations right now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Epstein was penning names
in that book as well, But I bet you Gilaine
had just as much access to it. And you know,

(02:39):
she was in charge of the Rolodex, and let's remember, folks,
she had a leadership role. So I'm guessing that we
should be calling this the Maxwell Epstein Black Book. Rodriguez
described the book, apparently assembled by Epstein's employees, as the
Holy Grail. It is annotated with cryptic marginalia stars next

(03:01):
to certain entries, arrows pointing towards others, and the names
of at least thirty eight people are circled for reasons
that aren't totally clear. There are one thousand, five hundred
and seventy one names in all, with roughly five thousand
phone numbers and thousands of emails and home addresses. There
are celebrities, princes and princesses, high profile scientists, artists from

(03:27):
all over the world, all along, all alongside some of
the world's most powerful oligarchs and political leaders, people like
Prince Andrew A. Whod Barack and Donald Trump. And the
fact that Epstein not only was paling around with these
people at so called events, like they said, right, oh,

(03:49):
we were just at parties together.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, you were.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Close enough that your names were in the book, right,
So let's not act like you know, the marathon defense
is going to work. Here, folks, we have some questions
and some answers are probably a good idea, and what
the author of the article did here was really good work, right,

(04:12):
he said, you know, what, the hell with the nonsense.
I'm gonna go directly to these people. I'm gonna make
these phone calls and we'll see what's what. Rodriguez was
Epstein's butler at his Palm Beach mansion for many years.
He was intimately familiar with his boss's sexual proclivities. He
claimed to have seen nude underage girls at Epstein's pool,

(04:32):
said that he would routinely wipe down and stow away
sex toys in Epstein's room after massages, and alleged that
he saw child pornography on Epstein's personal computer. And he's
not the only one who has said that, right. We
have heard that from multiple people about the child pornography
and the Lewde pictures of young children and the artwork

(04:54):
and just the whole entire weird ass vibe that a
normal person would see and feel and be like.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
What in the is going on?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Here. That's why when all of these people try and
have these excuses of AHI, I had no idea what
was going on. I really had no idea. You know,
it wasn't that weird. I never saw any underage girls.
All the other shit wasn't weird enough for you, bro
to make you question what in the f was going
on in this place?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
I mean, come on.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
In twenty and eleven, Rodriguez was sentenced to eighteen months
in prison for having tried to sell the book to
an undercover agent after failing to notify investigators about its existence.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
How about that, Huh?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Rodriguez got more time in prison, remember, than Jeffrey Epstein
for trying to sell this book. It just shows you
how skewed everything is when it comes to this Jeffrey
Epstein case and the way prosecution has went about going after.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
These people historically.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Right, we've seen some changes lately after people just had
enough and demanded justice, but previously it was an absolute
shit show. How does Rodriguez get eighteen more months, I mean,
get eighteen months when Epstein only gets thirteen. It's just
it just shows you the department of just us and

(06:17):
the failure of those who are part of the institution.
It just shows you how much their failure affects everything.
Their inability to effectively manage the Justice Department has such
long ranging consequences. Rodriguez said in court that the book

(06:41):
was insurance against Epstein, who wanted him to disappear. Rodriguez
died of mesothelioma shortly after serving his sentence. The public
first became aware of the book in twenty fifteen when
the now defunct website Gawker published a version of Rodriguez's copy,
revealing for the first time just how ludicrously connected Epstein

(07:05):
was to the people who run the world. And that's
not even hyperbole, right by the author, That's not even hyperbole.
These are the people who run the world. We've been
through them a million times. Here, all of the bankers,
all of the power players and politics, all of these
people combined are the people that literally run the world.
They make the laws, they give out, the loans, they decide,

(07:31):
They decide who is going to qualify for a house
or for a car. Right, They're the ones that are
in charge of all of that. These are the people
that are pulling all of the strings. These are the
people that are in charge Gawker's file showed only names attached.
Phone numbers and emails were blacked out. Shortly before Epstein's

(07:54):
mysterious death in August twenty nineteen in his cell at
the Manhattan Correctional FACI, an unredacted version of the book
popped up on some dark corners of the Internet with
almost every phone number, email, and home address entirely visible.
And I got my hands on a copy. So again,

(08:15):
this is real investigative work, right, This is the sort
of work that investigators and journalists should be doing, especially
in a case like this, and we have not seen
enough of it. Like I've said from the beginning, I
am I'm not a journalist like this gentleman here, right,
I'm certainly not working for one of these outlets or

(08:36):
anything like that. But these guys who are, who are
have have these resources behind them, these actual these journalists,
they have completely abandoned this story for the most part.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
You've have very few.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Real investigative journalists with resources digging in and it's it's
pretty uh, it's pretty disgusting, honestly to see some of
the garbage that they focus on and write about, as
opposed to some of the hard hitting situations that really
affect all of our lives. It's pretty pathetic to see

(09:13):
what the twenty four hour news cycle brings us on
a daily basis. And then you have people like this
over here at Mother Jones who are doing great work.
And do you think he's going to be on any
of these shows? Do you think Rachel Maddow's going to
have him on, or Tucker Carlson or no. I'm sure
they won't, but they should. Epstein's Little Black Book isn't

(09:35):
little at all. It's gargantuan. It's defining feature is its
size and thoroughness, and there are just as many boring
numbers as exciting ones. For every Jordanian princess, there are
three reflexologists from Boca. The listings are at times preposterously detailed,
often containing additional names and numbers for people's emergency contacts,

(09:58):
their parents, their siby, their friends, even their children, all
alongside hundreds of car phones, yacht phones, guesthouses and private
office lines. Does that sound like somebody that you just
ran into? If he has your yacht phone number, your
your car phone number, your house phone number, you know,

(10:19):
I mean, really that sounds like somebody who's just an acquaintance,
somebody you ran into at the bar. I mean, come on,
give me a break. This is obviously somebody that All
of these people who had five, six, seven numbers in
this book, they all knew Jeffrey Epstein, and if they
try and say any different, they're lying. Some individuals have

(10:42):
dozens of numbers and addresses addresses listed, while others just
list just a single number and a first name. Epstein
collected people, and if you ever had any interaction with
him or Geeland Maxwell, his one time girlfriend and co conspirator,
you more than likely ended up in this book. And
then several years later, well you received a call from me.

(11:08):
I made close to two thousand phone calls total. I
spoke to billionaires, CEOs, bankers, models, celebrities, scientists, A Kennedy,
and some of Epstein's closest friends and confidants. That's pretty crazy.
Just cold calling all of these people and having some
of them talk to you is even more batshit crazy.

(11:29):
I think it's just a very creative way to go
about it, and Leland should definitely get some kudos here.
It's a very creative way to go about your investigation. Sir,
I sat on my couch and phoned up Royalty, spoke
to ambassadors, irritated a senior advisor at Blackstone quality work
f Blackstone and the rest of the party running around there,

(11:52):
and left squeaky voicemails for what must constitute a considerable
percentage of the world oligarchy times. The book felt like
a dark palanteer, giving me glimpses of dreadful, haunted dimensions
that my soft, gentle animal being was never supposed to encounter.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Look, man, when you start delving into the world of
Jeffrey Epstein and you start swimming around in the muck
where he resided, it is not a comfortable place to be.
It's a very dark and disgusting place filled with some
really devious, dangerous, sick, sick individuals. So I get it.

(12:34):
I know what you're talking about. Seeing at close range.
The seeing at close range, the mundanity of Epstein and
his fellow elites, how simple and childish they could be,
was a sickening experience of its own. The worst call,
by far was with a woman who told me she'd

(12:54):
been groped by Epstein, an incident she said she didn't
report at the time at a fear of retribution from Epstein.
I mean, how many times have we heard that story?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
How many times have we heard that there would be
retribution if you talked or if you snitched on Epstein
or you told the authorities about what was going on.
And when he was around so many powerful people and
he counted so many powerful people as his friends and
his allies, well, it's one of those things where you

(13:27):
believe him when he lays that threat.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Right.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I have been aggressively counseled to remind the readers of
Mother Jones that an appearance in the address Book is
not evidence of any crime, or of complicity in any crime,
or of knowledge of any crime. Yeah, well that's for sure, right,
no doubt about it. But still the question remains, why
are you in the book. Most of these people won't
even answer that simple question, and that's why it has

(13:54):
become an issue. If you're going to avoid it, well,
this is something that's in the public sphere now people
know about it. You can't just make bretend that you're
not in this book. You can't make bretend that you
didn't have a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein in some capacity.
You have to explain your public figures. That's part of
the deal.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
They weren't all.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Elites, thankfully. Sometimes I would have delightful conversations with normal
people who had cleaned a car or given Epstein a
facial and only shared my distaste for Epstein and this circle. Yeah,
look again, there are definitely going to be a lot
of people like that. When you're a rich billionaire or
one hundred millionaire or whatever you want to call them,

(14:38):
you're around a lot of people as far as employees,
people that are going to work for you, and people
that might not have an intimate relationship with you, meaning
people that aren't at the mansions, people that aren't involved
in procuring girls for you. You know, there's going to
be plumbers, etc.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Etc.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Right. Sometimes I would call number that had changed hands
at some point since the book was compiled, and instead
of reaching the governor or fashion designer I was looking for,
I would end up with just a normal bloke on
the line, some poor recipient of a torrent of wrong
number phone calls of the worst variety imaginable. Their fate

(15:17):
was a twisted inversion of my own. The oligarchy wouldn't
stop calling them.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
I can't even imagine, imagine having one of these phone
numbers of one of these people who are in this book,
and you know they have a new number or whatever,
and you get the phone number in the rotation.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
How horrible would that be?

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Some highlights and low lights from my tour of Jeffrey
Epstein's Little Black Book. Remember, an appearance in the address
book is not evidence of any crime, or of complicity
in any crime, or of knowledge of any crime. Yeah,
but there's still a lot of questions that need to
be asked. Doug Band, log time advisor to Bill Clinton,
called the number listed as his home number, which wound

(16:05):
up being his childhood home.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Spoke to his.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Dad for five minutes. Seemed like a decent guy. Doug
hasn't lived here for thirty years, all right, take care man.
So he called Doug Band and it was the guy's
home number, which was where the dude grew up. You imagine,
Jeffrey Epstein has your parents' home number in his Black Book.
What in the ever liven f why would he have

(16:29):
that phone number? So many questions. Jimmy Kane, a former
CEO of bear Stearns, wife, answered the phone when asked
about Epstein and Kaine's relationship. She said, yes, they were friends,
but we have no comment. Edward Razzik, former chief marketing
officer for L Brands, I can't talk about any of that.

(16:52):
Our business has requested no interviews. And remember Razik was
also on the line by fostering a bad work environment
for the girls at Victoria's Secret. Those were the allegations
sexual harassment, etcetera, etcetera. Rupert Murdoch, executive chairman of News Corp.

(17:13):
His assistant gave me Hope Hicks' cell phone number after
I asked for it. Hicks has not returned any of
my calls. Well that's a chakra. I'm really shocked that
Hope Hicks hasn't recalled, has returned any.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Calls from you.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I mean, she's these people, all of these people are
just unbelievable folks. I honestly don't even know what to
say about half of them. Princess Furyal, Jordanian philanthropist, called
her home number. Dorman answered, I asked for a missed
free y'all, completely butchering the pronunciation. Dorman was confused, so

(17:46):
I said princess, and he immediately told me where she
was and who she was with Peter Roth, chairman and
CEO of Warner Brothers. No, that's not a chakra. I
wonder how often mister Roth was hanging out with old
Harvey Weinstein listed cell number went to his son's phone. Yeah,

(18:07):
I don't really want to talk about any of this,
His son said, I don't want to be anywhere near
this whole Jeffrey Epstein thing. And that's what it's all about, right.
They don't want to be near it, even if they
had a relationship with Epstein. They don't want to be
near it, folks. They'd rather back away. They'd rather just
you know, like I always say, the marathon approach. And
now as it's becoming more serious, it's turning into a sprint.

(18:30):
But these people who don't want to talk about it,
come on now, now I understand here this went to
his kid's son, right, I mean to his son's phone.
So I don't expect his son to answer for his father.
But some of these other people that you know, don't
want to talk about it and they want to just
avoid it. That's not going to occur. The cat is

(18:51):
now out of the bag. Jamie Grant, Global Chairman of
Investment Pinking JP Morgan. I wonder how many times has
mister Grant been involved with some of the stuff we
talk about in the Fins and Files. I'm guessing a lot.
As you all know, I think most of these bankers
at this level, the Jamie Grant level bankers, are up

(19:13):
to no good. So it would not shock me one
bit if mister Grant wasn't involved in all of that
sort of nonsense as well. Listed cell number also went
to his son, who told me his dad didn't know
Epstein or gieland Maxwell.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's sort of like the New York City business world.
I would say.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Jeffrey Epstein is like a couple people removed from my dad.
Oh so now we're doing seven the seven degrees of
separation of Kevin Bacon.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Huh yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Look, my dad's friends, friend's uncle cousin knows Jeffrey Epstein.
That's why my dad was in the book.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Uh what.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Robert Meister, former chairman of Aon Insurance and the man
who introduced Epstein to Leslie Wexner, he's a sick Oh
bye bye. So that's what Robert meister Meister said. Huh
oh okay, that was very informative. Thanks a lot Sir
Kerry Kennedy, president of RFK Human Rights, listed as an
emergency contact for Robert F. Kennedy Junior and Mary Kennedy,

(20:14):
and seemed very taken aback that I had forgotten Bobby
was dead.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I asked where he was. Yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I then asked her about Mary Kennedy, who I learned
is also dead. Big yikes all around on this one.
She told me she used to sell photographs to Mother
Jones in her younger days. Well, okay, that was informative,
and I'm sure that he had a bunch of phone
calls like that, right, calling people and they're like, what

(20:42):
is this even about? And then it probably veered off
into other directions when he realized that it was either
a number of somebody who was no longer related to
Jeffrey Epstein, meaning nobody that has a relationship with him,
or whatever have you, it would veer off into a
different direction. Meryl Tish, former Chancellor of the New York

(21:04):
State Board of Regents and heir to the Loews Corporation, me, Hey,
I'm doing a story on Jeffrey Epstein. I was wondering
if you ever met the guy or interacted with him.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Tish, I don't know who you are. How did you
get my number?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Me? Well, I got it from Epstein's contact book, Tish,
from who me? Jeffrey Epstein's contact book? Tish, No, this
is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Who are you? What's your name?

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Me?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
My name's Leland.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm doing a story for a magazine, Tish. Oh my god,
you have to be kidding me. No, I can't help
you out. Thank god. I mean really, me, Me, Merrily
and Jimmy were listed with an address and this number. You're, Tish,
right with the C. There's a David Tish listed as well.

(21:56):
Don't know if you're related, Tish.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Huh goodbye? Oh man, that's pretty that's a good one there.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
That lady seemed to be mortified that she was involved
with Jeffrey Epstein or that her name was found in
that black book.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
I can only imagine.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I wonder what her voice sounded like on the conversation,
not just reading the words, but I wonder what the
what she sounded like. Joel pashcal board member of the
Palm Beach Police and Fire Foundation. You're really pathetic, you
know that.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Man, people keep calling me up asking for Muffy, and
I'm like, you know, I'm just always polite man. That's
Elijah Hutch, twenty two year old aspiring music producer who
lives in Flatbush in Brooklyn. He has the old cell
number for Muffy Potter, wife of world famous plastic surgeon
Cheryl Aston and the fourth greatest socialite in history according

(22:53):
to Town and Country magazine. The fact that we have
a list of the quote unquote greatest socialites in his
What sort of moronic nonsense is that they get a
list socialites get a list of who the greatest socialites
in history are? I have an idea. How about your
all idiots? Okay, the whole lot of you are idiots.

(23:22):
They'll text me about some dinner I went to, or
how it was great seeing me with so and so,
and I'm always just respectful man, and just let them know. Hey, man,
I think Muffy gave you the wrong number. Eli had
no idea who Muffy was, or Epstein for that matter,
and I almost didn't want to explain it to him,
but I did. The child sex ring, the princes, the presidents,

(23:44):
the suicide, the Black Book everything. Out of all the
people I spoke to, Eli had by far the most
kagin cogent analysis of the situation. Damn man, this is
all sounding so strange. Find Eli Hutch on SoundCloud here.
Let the haunting lyrics of go Away give you strength

(24:04):
as they did me awake at my desk at four
am so I could call every pedophile in London. You're
gonna need more coffee, bro. Look, in fact, I should
send you a six pack of bangs because you're gonna
need those. I think you're gonna need the energy drinks.
Step it up, You're gonna need more. To call every
pedophile in London's gonna take you quite some time, my friend.

(24:27):
What a world any phone can reach any other. It's
almost unbelievable what a string of seven to twelve numbers
can get you. All I did for weeks was sit
on my couch, feel like dog shit, flip through this
haunted book and call people up one by one in
between bouts of stressed diarrhea. That's it.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
You just type the.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Numbers in and sometimes you get a ring, and sometimes
a person picks up.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Remember, well, you know what I always.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Say about being stuck in the house for six months,
for six months, being locked down, and shit, you really
think that this guy would have went through this if.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
He wasn't locked in his house.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Probably not so Again, the quarantine has created some good content,
and it's really made people become pretty damn creative.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
The fuzz.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Maybe I made the first call from a coffee shop
in Los Angeles Koreatown, the day after Epstein's suspicious suicide
in his cell at Manhattan's Metropolitan Correctional Center while awaiting trial.
A convenient turn of events for the rich and famous
people who would now avoid exposure in court. Well, all right,
guess he started before the quarantine. So this guy actually

(25:37):
has a lot of pizazz, right, that's a lot of focus.
Two thousand phone calls, calling all of these people and
asking them, probably going through the same questions with all
of them.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Talk about repetitive.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
And you know what, it turned into a fantastic story,
And that a lot of work. Right the day after
Epstein committed suicide, he made the first phone call. So
he's been working on this for a lot longer than
the quarantine, So props. The death was a national scandal.

(26:12):
Followers of the Epstein case, I'm including myself here, reacted
to his death with a burst of paranoia and anger.
Conspiracizing was rampant. I had come across the screenshot of
an unredacted section of the Black Book and determined to
track down its source. I decided to check the most
awful place on the Internet, a chan, where I was

(26:33):
quickly rewarded for my intuition, and unredacted pdf of the
entire book had been posted just a few hours earlier.
About twelve second later, twelve seconds later, I was dialing
Milania Trump's personal cell phone voicemail. Then I sent a
text to David Copperfield, David, we need to talk. It's

(26:54):
about Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
I love it. I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Imagine sending that sort of text message to David Copperfield.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Copperfield's reaction, he must have been like, who is this?
What do you mean? We need to talk about Jeffrey?

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Who in the hell is this? God to be a
roach in the rushes? When these idiots got these these
phone calls or these text messages, it must have been
they must have been.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Caught so off guard.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I tried a couple more people, none of whom picked up,
whereupon I was interrupted by a call from a restricted number.
The guy on the line said he was with the FBI.
He said, there were reports of fraudulent phone calls being
made on this line, which I immediately understood as bullshit. I
wasn't committing any phone crime or trying to trick someone
into doing so. I don't know about fraudulent, but I

(27:43):
have been. But I have a feeling I know what
you're talking about, I said, undoubtedly, sounding cool, relaxed, and unbothered.
He then said, I have a real call coming in
to what sounded like someone else in the room, his
voice quiet in the way of someone who has just
pulled the phone off of his face to look at it.
He hung up and never called again. As far as

(28:04):
I know, whether the guy was FBI or private security
goon posing as a FED. The call was an important development.
It told me that the book I was dealing with
and the numbers it contained were genuine. Every cell phone number,
every yacht line, every private office number, they were all real,
and every one of them was about to get a

(28:25):
call from me, the art collecting scientists.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
You're so full of shit.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
The next day I began calling in mass by now
in an effort to spare my girlfriend any psychic harm.
I was operating from the Los Angeles Central Library, first
from a foyer, my voice bouncing off the high marble
ceilings with embarrassing levels of clarity and volume, and then
from a corner of the library's art gallery, definitely maneuvering

(28:52):
around any guests when necessary. That day had been terrible,
full of wrong and disconnected numbers, and I was close
to the entire project out of both fear and hopelessness
when I placed what was maybe my fiftieth phone call
to Stuart Pivar, who answered the phone and told me
Jeffrey Epstein was my best pal for decades.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
So to go back to.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
What he was talking about here with the FBI supposedly
calling him, I don't doubt it. Right, we heard what
happened with Tara Paul Mary in the Broken podcast about
how the FBI talked to the talk to It slips
my mind right now. One of the butlers or whoever
the gentleman was that they talked to Unbroken Juana Lessi.

(29:40):
So how the FBI had talked to him previously, and
now how the FBI or security goons called this guy
and tried to tell him that he was making fraudulent
phone calls. And that's just the way they conduct themselves. Right.
They love to try and intimidate, they love to try
and put the put fear into people. But you know what,

(30:02):
sometimes you just have to put that to the side
when you're working on a story as a journalist and
you just have to keep charging hard. I mean, it's
just when you cover stories like this, there is bound
to be some sketchy moments. Pavar, ninety years old, is
an art collector, scientist, and a founder, alongside Andy Warhol,

(30:26):
of the New York Academy of Art.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
How beautiful is that? Huh?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
We all know about the New York Academy of Art
and Eileen Guggenheim and all of the nonsensical bs that
occurred there.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Don't we.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
He ended up speaking with me for over an hour
about his very, very sick friend, in a conversation we
wound up publishing in its entirety. Stewart told me over
and over again that Epstein suffered from satrisisists, which he
described as the male version of nymphomania, and that he
used his money and power to make an industry out

(30:59):
of having sex with underage girls. Sounds to me like
Sturet Pivar is making this stuff up or going on,
you know what he thinks maybe because I don't think
that Epstein was, you know, making an industry out of it.
I think there was a now you know what, maybe

(31:21):
that is the right way to say it, making an
industry out of it.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, all right, I think we could go with that.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
This apparently entailed Epstein having sex with three girls a
day and hundreds and hundreds in total. He said he
never knew Epstein was having sex with children until Maria Farmer,
a student at the academy and an acquaintance of Pivar,
had told him she had been assaulted and held hostage
by Epstein. He also claimed that Epstein had never invited

(31:47):
him to what he called the Isle of Babes, a
reference to Epstein's private island where much of the child
sex trafficking allegedly occurred.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, it was a.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Elite company, right. Only certain people that Jeffrey Epstein was
bringing to that island. Only some very select folks were
invited to that island. People that Epstein knew had the
same proclivities as him, would be my guests. Pavar said
he was in mourning for Epstein, who had died just
two days before we spoke by turns Moreau's defeated and

(32:23):
indignant veering between florid ruminations about teenage sexuality and bitter
denunciations of me and my life choices. He unloaded his
thoughts and feelings about Maxwell and Leslie Wexner, Epstein's billionaire patron,
as well as about nature of perversion, criminality, perhaps even

(32:44):
life itself. On pathology, what's a pervert?

Speaker 1 (32:48):
There are all.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Kinds of behavioristic aberrations, obviously, including mass murderers. You don't
call mass murderers perverts, do you? Uh? What? No? We
call the mass murderers be because they're killing people, Okay.
Perverts are people that do the things that your best
friend Jeffrey Epstein did. Really, I was in mourning for

(33:10):
Jeffrey Epstein, sort of sick bastards in mourning for Jeffrey
Epstein on nature and civilization, and so all kinds of
rules get made and nature is not allowed to take
its course on account of civilization. Jeffrey broke those rules
big time. But what he was pursuing was kind of
I suppose sexual urges, which would why am I telling

(33:31):
you this stuff?

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Leave me alone? Go away?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
So this ninety year old man goes on this rant, right,
starts prattling all this shit off to the author here,
and then at the end decides, why am I telling.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
You all of this? Leave me alone? Go away.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I wonder if he ended it by get off of
my lawn. On Epstein accuser of Virginia Roberts in Epstein's
child sex ring. Anyone who did one thing. Let us say,
to some sixteen year old trollop who would come to
his house time after time after time and then afterwards
bitch about it. Why no one would pay attention except

(34:09):
Jeffrey made an industry out of it. So this this
Stewart Pavar guys obviously another sick bastard, right, another one
of these you know, art world dealer sick dudes. We've
talked about him previously when we were talking about the Academy,
and just when you read the things that they would

(34:30):
say about Jeffrey Epstein, or how they supported Jeffrey Epstein,
or how they called one of these girls a trollop,
you called Virginia a trollop.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
It's just, you know, the.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
The nature of these sick bastards, the nature of these
fellow travelers on nature and civilization continued the business of
sexual attraction. The attraction of males and females in its
natural state is not the same as what happens when
civilization puts up all kinds of ru because sexual attraction

(35:01):
starts at a very very young age. When I was fourteen,
I had to deal with a girl who was only thirteen,
and somehow I remember it was at summer camp, and
I stopped having to do with her because of the
tremendous age gap on me and my life choices.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
You're so full of shit. It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
You should not be writing about this. You are not qualified.
Is this guy's obviously suffering from some form of dementia
or something, mister Pavar And.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Sexual attraction starts at a very very young age.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
So what is a thirteen year old being attracted to
a fourteen year old have to do with Jeffrey Epstein
raping little girls on himself and his life choices? Why
did I talk to you? I'm a dead fish and you're.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Going to ruin me.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Luckily, I don't know anybody who reads the Mother Jones anymore.
I can't believe it still existed. This guy's throwing all
kinds of smoke at the author. Huh, fire, And you
gotta have some set of balls to call Jeffrey Epstein
your best friend and then try to bring the smoke.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
To this author.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
On my having asked him to speak into yapping pointlessly.
You asked me to sew to speak into yapping pointlessly
because I have nothing else to do for the moment,
and I'm relying on.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
You to understand what I say.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
If you misquote me or anything like that, I will
sue your magazine until the end of the earth. Tell
me your name again so I can start writing a
complaint to sue you. Oh yeah, he's probably call Alan
Dershowitz right away. He's calling mister underpants himself. Alan, I
gotta sue mother Jones. Can you help me out. That's

(36:47):
the sort of people we're dealing with here. This guy
who's calling Jeffrey Epstein his best friend is saying he's
going to sue a journalist for calling him and asking
about some context of their relationship. You don't have that
ability anymore. Okay, that's done. Somewhere in all this, Pavar

(37:10):
managed to tell me the entire backstory of his decades
friendship with Epstein. Pavar had met Epstein through the New
York Academy of Art, where Epstein was a board member.
It was at an NYAA function where he met a
young Maria Farmer, who, along with her younger sister, would
become one of Epstein's earliest accusers. Farmer, a painter, was

(37:32):
at the Wexner mansion at Epstein's invitation for what she
believed was an art residency, when she alleges Epstein and
Maxwell sexually assaulted her and held her hostage for twelve
hours with the aid of Wexner's massive security team. After
the ordeal, for Farmer soon learned that her younger sister
had also been assaulted by Epstein and Maxwell during a

(37:55):
similar artist residency.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Pavar told me he ran into.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Farmer at a fleamak where she told him this bizarre story,
and I realized, oh my god, something was happening after
years and years, which he Epstein didn't tell me. So
Maria not only told the FBI, she told Pavar here,
and he just went on record saying that so for
all the detractors who liked to run their fat, stupid,

(38:21):
idiot mouths, well there you go. Another witness huh, another
person to corroborate it. My hour long conversation with Pavar
was genuinely illuminating. Pavar spoke about Epstein in the exact
way many of his friends and colleagues would speak about
him to me in the coming weeks, reverence mixed with

(38:42):
an acknowledgment of Epstein's essential dising disingenuousness. Much has been
made in the press of Epstein's intelligence, mostly due to
his vast wealth, the glowing adoration of his elite peers,
and the long roster of high profile scientists and thinkers
with whom he surrounded himself. Pavar was the first person

(39:04):
appeal back the curtain of Epstein's reputation with intimate, first
hand knowledge of the man himself, and to counter the
prevailing media narrative at the time. Pavar had attended a
few of the now widely publicized intellectual summits at Epstein's
house in New York, and we've we talked about all
of those and the power brokers that they brought in with,

(39:26):
you know, the Edge Conference, and John Brockman and all
of the power players that were brought into Epstein's orbit
for these sorts of conferences. Epstein hosted dinner parties for
world famous scientists and thinkers from around the globe, people

(39:47):
like Stephen Pinker, Stephen Jay Gould, Martin Noak, Lawrence Krause,
and Marvin Minsky. Jeffrey didn't know anything about science, Pavar said.
He would say, oh, what is gravity, which of course
is an un answerable thing to present at a dinner
to a bunch of scientists. And because he was Jeffrey,
why they would and as the founder of the feast,

(40:08):
they would listen to him and try to give answers.
He was attempting, somehow, in his ignorant and scientifically naive state,
to do something scientifically important. He had no compunctions about
inviting people, and since he had money, they would listen.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
I think it was more about them, more than just
the money though too right, he was also offering them
other things, like the girls that he was sex trafficking.
And we've talked at length about these nerdy ass scientists.
You know that they weren't running around with the hot
girls when they were growing up or even when they
were in college. Just take a look at people like

(40:44):
Jeff Bezos even and Elon musk before they got all
their money and all the work done on themselves. You
really think they were running around with you know, hot girls.
Hell no, and these scientists certainly aren't. So when Jeffrey
Epstein would have that island available and out of all
these traffic girls, that would just be.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
The icing on top of the cake.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Right. Epstein used his money and influence to brand himself
as an avant garde intellect, a sparkling auto autocrat dedicated
to the pursuit of knowledge on the far out edge
of human perception. In large part, it worked extraordinarily well.

(41:25):
You could build mountains out of the bizarre, nebulous claims
of esoteric knowledge ascribed to Epstein. He was good at
puzzles and finding things out. He could look at an
organization and see what was wrong, one friend told me. Wexner,
when asked by Vanity Fair about his relationship with Epstein,
said that he was good at seeing patterns in politics

(41:46):
and financial markets. Epstein's mind goes through a cross section
of descriptions. Joe Pegano, a longtime friend of Epstein, had
said he can go from mathematics to psychology to biology.
He takes the smallest amount of information and gets the
correct answer in the shortest period of time. That's my
definition of IQ. Epstein's attempts to betray himself as a

(42:09):
galaxy brain genius was surely helped along by his vast fortune.
As I would find the myth of his genius and
the fortune or mutually reinforcing notions. His brilliance went largely unquestioned,
because how else could he be so rich? His wealth
wasn't so mysterious once he understood just how brilliant he was. Yeah, sorry,

(42:32):
I never thought Jeffrey Epstein was brilliant. From anything we've
read and from the stuff I've heard from people who
knew him. It was all a facade, right, It was
all fakery. He had some ability in the stock market,
maybe to move some numbers and shit, and he had
a good feel for money laundering, but as far as legally, really,

(42:54):
he was nothing to write home about. He was no
Wall Street powerhouse, he was no big shot, He wasn't
anything like that. But Pavar didn't buy it, at least
not entirely. He still called his old friend a very,
very brilliant guy and said Epstein had a very low,
how should I say, charming way of expressing himself. But

(43:18):
Pavar also acknowledged that Epstein was a bullshitter. He couldn't
concentrate on a subject for more than two minutes before
having to change the subject because he didn't know what
anyone was talking about and what blurred out the dumbest things.
Pavar said, in particular, Epstein had an affinity for posing
pseudo deep questions like what is up and what is down?

(43:39):
At the scientific summits he hosted on his private island.
Doesn't shock me one bit, Honestly, a pseudo intellectual with
like Jeffrey Epstein is definitely going to ask questions like that, right,
trying to act like he knows what he's talking about
or floss like he's some sort of you know, intelligent guy.

(44:00):
And these scientists were all probably rolling their eyes in
the back, you know, in their heads, in their minds,
I mean, meanwhile, acting like they care what this guy
had to say. Because a the money and b all
of the others that came with it, the act would
wear thin. Eventually, Pavar recalled, while everybody was watching, we

(44:20):
began to realize he didn't know what he was talking about. Then,
after a couple of minutes. Jeffrey had no attention span whatsoever.
He would interrupt the conversation and change it and say
things like, what does that got to do with pussy? Yeah,
that sounds about right. That most definitely sounds about right, folks.
And we know that Stuart Pavar was a friend of

(44:42):
Jeffrey Epstein's and they probably were pretty close. It wouldn't
shock me one bit considering how close Epstein was to
the Academy, sitting on the board, all the money he donated.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Et cetera, et cetera. So that is.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
A tell that definitely rings true with me, the conversation
Pavar had with the author here and what they talked about,
because he most definitely had some intimate knowledge of Epstein,
and him and Epstein most definitely were pretty good friends.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Now, I'm not too sure.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
That Pavar was involved in the actual, you know, trafficking
part of anything, but he certainly was rubbing elbows with
Jeffrey Epstein more than just an acquaintance. And he I
don't care what he says, he most definitely saw some
weird shit. And even if he didn't see anything weird,
Maria told him what was going on, and he still

(45:38):
stayed friends with Jeffrey Epstein. So Stuart Pavar is another
one that you know, it's good that he's talking, right,
he's talking about, you know, his relationship with Epstein, et cetera,
et cetera.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
But he's not.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Going to be able to pull the wool over anyone's
eyes and act like, you know, he didn't see anything
weird at Epstein's house. If you're over there and you're
at his conferences and stuff, you saw a few weird things.
Now do you want to acknowledge that or not? Well
that's a different question, and that's probably where we uh

(46:12):
where we are with where we are with mister Pivar, Right,
he is just he you know, in his mind he
has it's normalized. That's the normal behavior for these people.
So when Jeffrey Epstein has all this weird ass art
and painting and shit on his walls, maybe this guy
says to himself.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, yeah, you know, typical, just the way we roll
in polite society.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
So that's going to end part one of this very
lengthy article, and part two will be tonight on the
Daily Drop, So look for that later on, probably around
four PM or so Pacific Standard time. All right, everybody,

(46:57):
If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
at Bob Capuchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's Bo Bby
c ap you Cci at ProtonMail dot com. You can
also find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore c ap
u Cci. All of the links that go with this
episode can be found in the description box. All right, folks,

(47:21):
I'll be back later on and we will finish this article.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Tonight.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
We're gonna pick up where we left off on the
morning update and finish this article from Mother Jones and
Leland Knolly. Quick catch up. This is the gentleman who
called all of the people in Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book.
We did the first part of this article earlier this morning,

(47:49):
and now this is going to be the conclusion of
where we left off. So let's just jump right back
in again. This is an article from Mother Joneses and
the author is Leland Knawley, the actress. It's a weird feeling.
I'm kind of repulsed. Pavar was the first person I

(48:10):
spoke to who had actually been close to Epstein. There
would be others, and they would speak as freely and
searchingly about Epstein as Pavar had musing about their place
in his life, some racked with guilt, some clumsily rushing
to his defense. By far, the most eager sharer was
an actress who had met Epstein in the early eighties

(48:30):
before he'd gotten super rich, and who had maintained a
decades long close friendship with him as he rose into
the ranks of the elite. She asked that we not
use her real name. We will be calling her Julie.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Julie.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Huh. I can only imagine who Julie could possibly be.
I mean, look, a lot of these people that were
involved with Jeffrey Epstein, even if it was just a friendship,
like this lady Julie, they you know, they didn't want
to talk about that friendship. They didn't want to say
that things were weird, right, They didn't want anything to
do with the chance of Epstein crushing them under their heel.

(49:10):
So when you had like these models and these actresses
and these girls that were around Epstein, well, he was
in complete control.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Julie's name did not have any particular special notation in
the book. She's not famous by any means, and as
far as I know, she hasn't ever talked to any
other reporter or media outlet. I like talking to you.
I don't really want to talk to anyone else. She
told me at one point, how old are you? You're
like my therapist.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
And I get it. I've had people open.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Up to me and just poor about situations involving Epstein
and otherwise, so I get it. I understand exactly what
he's talking about there. And for so long, a lot
of these people who were affected by Jeffrey Epstein and
his cohorts, they couldn't talk with anybody. They couldn't open
up and tell their stories because they were afraid of reprisals.

(50:06):
Julie and I would speak multiple times on the phone
over the months I worked on this story, sometimes for
over an hour, sometimes for just a few minutes. She
met Epstein in the nineteen eighties at a dinner with
her agent and a group of models at a known
model hangout in New York City. Epstein approached the table
and asked if any of them would like to go

(50:27):
party at his apartment, and some of the women agreed,
Julie included. While Epstein played the piano for the small
crowd in his place, A friend of hers pulled her
aside and told her, I think he's hitting on you.
And again, typical for Jeffrey Epstein, right, A typical move,
A typical place for him to try and go and
get some girls at a model hangout. What better for

(50:50):
Jeffrey Epstein when he can walk in there and talk
about how he knows this person. He knows that person.
I have access to Victoria's secret, so of course he's
going to have these models enthralled. And then we know
exactly what happened after that, don't we. Julie allowed there
was some initial mutual attraction and flirtatiousness, but nothing crossed

(51:13):
the line. She said the two were friends and remain
friends and nothing more for their entire relationship. Soon after
they met, Julie would find herself talking with people like
Vera Wang and Andy Warhol at Epstein's dining room table,
or flying with Epstein on his private planes to meetings
and parties around the world. Vera Wang and Andy Warhol,

(51:35):
HA doesn't shock me one bit. It does not shock
me one bit. We've heard how many times the people
that were around him, the people that were spending time
with him, and then it's always these people that want
to live on top of an ivory tower themselves and
cast judgment on the rest of us. I find it

(51:57):
galling that these people would get continue to conduct themselves
when they've been exposed for the absolute disgusting monsters that
they are. She'd take a couple of trips to his
private island Little Saint James, frequent his properties in New York,
New Mexico, and Palm Beach, chill with a few of

(52:18):
Bill Clinton's staffers, and meet many of the people in
Epstein's inner circle, including Virginia Roberts, his eventual accuser. She
was always there in Little Saint James. Julie said, yeah,
look again, the corroboration that we have heard from people
who were around on the island and elsewhere when Virginia

(52:41):
is alleging that this abuse took place is something that
cannot be ignored. Right. The only way you could ignore
it is if you're looking for a way to try
and discredit what these girls are trying to say. But
the evidence that we have available to us, the circumstance,
ail evidence, and the eyewitness accounts of people who have

(53:03):
come out on record. Now we're talking about four or
five people, So again, where are the receipts from the accused?
They don't have any folks, all right, That's why they
haven't come forward with them. That's why they're not trying
to challenge this in any way. And that's why you
see people like Dershowitz lashing out the way he has,

(53:23):
because they know their backs against their backs are against
the wall, and there's going to be a lot of
information coming out. We see that there's three hundred and
twenty eight thousand documents in discovery already turned over to
the defense, so what else is going to come out?
Julie was always adamant with me that she never witnessed

(53:44):
any sexual abuse during her entire relationship with Epstein, and
that while she and everyone else knew that Epstein was
into young girls, she never questioned whether any were of
legal age. Of course not nobody did. Right, All of
these people hanging out with Epstein thought that he was
just such a good looking dude, such a you know,
big buff swoll good looking cat, that all these young

(54:06):
girls were flocking to him.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Come on, everybody knew. I'm so tired of that. Excuse
what are we seven.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Hundred and nineteen articles in How many times are we
going to have to hear that excuse? She also repeatedly
told me how happy all the girls were to be
with Epstein, at least the ones she saw, the girls
that can plain and say they didn't want to be
there or that they weren't happy. If someone was unhappy,
he had no time for you. His attention span was

(54:33):
so short and he could be really rude, So any
girl that was around him had to be up and bubbly.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
She said.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
You know, he was always joking around, doing stupid like
sexual jokes.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
If there was some girl.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Walking around, he'd pants her or something, you know what
I mean. But it was always in ingest. I let
him go back then, I let him go back then.
But you know, it's a weird feeling. I'm kind of repulsed,
but somewhere deep down I do miss that personality. Oh,
how many of these so called members of polite society
are going to say they miss Jeffrey Epstein? And furthermore,

(55:08):
what are you fucking twelve pantsing people?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Are you kidding me? Right now?

Speaker 2 (55:13):
That was the kind of shit you did in the
locker room when you were like a freshman in high school,
A grown ass billionaire when girls are walking around his house,
he's pantsing them, and nobody thinks that's weird.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Nobody bats an eye. Huh. I'll tell you what.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Try that on some of my friends and see the result.
Watch how quick you catch the three piece with the
soda on the side from one.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Of these girls.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Because I'll tell you what, pantsing somebody, that shit's not
gonna fly. That's not normal behavior. And for Julie to
act like Miss Julie here, to act like it's, oh,
no big deal, Well, I'll tell you what, Julie, it's
no big deal because you're around a bunch of sick
bastards who have normalized this behavior to you. Julie seemed

(55:57):
absolutely helpless in the face of the monstrousness of the
Epstein saga, and over the hours of calls we had,
she would achingly retrace her relationship with him and discircle
with me. At times she was resolute in her condemnation,
despairing over the seriousness of his crimes, and at one
point telling me she was glad he's dead. Well, she's

(56:18):
obviously all over the place with what she's saying. Deep down,
I kind of missed that personality, But another point, I'm
glad he's dead.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Look, I don't know who this Julie is, but it
might want to.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Seek a real therapist, as opposed to the author of
this article. At other times, even though she was a
survivor of sexual assault as well, she would grow irritated
and retreat into denial, offering sloppy, desperate defenses of Epstein's
actions or doubts about survivors. She read me excerpts from
her diary over the phone, shared gossip, and led me

(56:53):
to flight logs and photographs to coroberate her story. She
wept over how much, how such an influential figure in
her life, someone who treated her with kindness, someone who
she looked up to, could have done such awful, hideous things,
and how terrible it was to look back on their
relationship and feel betrayed, and worse still, to miss him.

(57:15):
Although she had better insight into his life than perhaps
most people on this earth, she too had agonizing unresolved questions,
and parts of Epstein still remain an enigma even to her.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah, look, it's a lot of.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Deflecting here, right, a lot of trying to make excuses
for his behavior, and there are no excuses for his behavior.
I don't care if you're his friend, you're a mom,
his confidant, his uncle, whatever it may be. There is
no excuse for Jeffrey Epstein's behavior. I am sorry. We're
not talking about a white collar crime here. And I've
said this over and over. You're involved in some sort

(57:53):
of Ponzi scheme, you can be forgiven. You're involved in
cheating on your wife, you can be forgiven. You're involved stealing,
you can be forgiven. Hell, you start an endless war,
you can be forgiven. But if you're involved in abusing children,
sex trafficking women for decades on end, and you catch

(58:14):
a plea deal the first time around the second time around,
well you can't get away with that.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
My friend, all.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Right, I think a lot about what my role and
some girl's roles were different, Julie told me. I think
Jeffrey liked to exploit people. If he saw a girl
and could corrupt her, he might like that. There are
two things that make Julie's story unique. One, Unlike many
of Epstein's friends, she is not a famous or known person. Well,

(58:43):
he had a lot of people around him that weren't famous, right.
He liked good looking girls, right, attractive young girls or
girls that might have been of an age, but we're
younger looking, and that was what Jeffrey Epstein liked. No
reporter would know about her unless they did what I

(59:05):
did and called every single person in the Black Book two.
She knew Epstein well and from a very early point,
being a part of what she called a small core
group of friends who remained in his life from before
you was rich and infamous, excuse me, before he was
the rich and infamous figure the public knows him as today.

(59:26):
From up close, Julie says she watched his personality change
as his riches and connections grew. Well, until we know
who Julie is, and if we ever do know who
Julie is, we don't really know how truthful her story is, right,
We don't know how close they really were. So I'm
going to leave this as an up in the air one.
Right could be they could be close, no doubt about it.

(59:48):
But again, we have to really question people that are
coming forward in this case, right, people that are saying
they knew Jeffrey Epstein well, et cetera, et cetera. And
I'm not saying that she didn't she'd most definitely might have,
but I'm always a bit skeptical. Throughout the many years

(01:00:08):
of their friendship, she attended several private gatherings where only
a small number of Epstein's friends were present, giving her
an opportunity to meet and get to know the big players.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
In his life.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
When Julie first met Epstein, he was wealthy, but far
from the ultra rich guy he would become. He was
secretive about his work always, but she believed he was
working as a bounty hunter when they met, helping track
down and bezzlers for corporations and possibly governments. Well, this
is certainly a story we have heard, right, So this
brings a little credibility to what she's been saying, because

(01:00:42):
that is definitely a story that was going around in
circles that Jeffrey Epstein was a sort of bounty hunter,
a sort of forensic accountant for the government and for corporations,
and his job was to hunt down money that was
either hidden or stolen, et cetera, et cetera. So that
rings like a nice sound of truth to it, right,

(01:01:05):
because that is definitely something that people in the know
who knew him early on have been adamant about. She
told me she sat in on a meeting in Paris
between Epstein and Leslie Wexner, the founder of L Brands
and Victoria's secret who says Epstein and bezel at least
forty six million dollars from him. Yeah, right, Epstein didn't

(01:01:25):
embezzel shit from him. I don't buy that for a second.
All of a sudden, he comes out and says that
right to try and distance himself a little more to
make it look like him and Epstein had a falling out,
But in reality, come on, man, who's believing that shit.
This was early in Epstein and Wexner's relationship, not long
after the two had been introduced by insurance tycoon Robert Meister.

(01:01:49):
Epstein began working for Wexner in the late eighties, though
the nature of that work still isn't entirely clear. Vanity
Fair in two thousand and three said it was related
to cleaning up, tightening budgets and efficiencies. Julie told me
Epstein was helping to track down employees who Wexner believed
were stealing money from him at L Brand's headquarters. So okay, look,

(01:02:12):
if Julie was really this well placed and she was
sitting in on meetings like this. Then the information she
has is a treasure treasure trove, and I would hope
that she was she'd speak to the authorities because she
might have some information that they could have missed or
something that could help put the pieces together. So I
would hope that they would try and contact her on
the down low about this. Right, she's not a survivor,

(01:02:34):
she wasn't abused by Epstein.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
She was somebody in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
His circle, and obviously, according to this article, she has
some information that she can add to the wider.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Story, to the bigger picture.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Leslie had said to him, I have a problem in
my company. There's something wrong. Someone is stealing from me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Would you fly out to Ohio?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
And of course that's like hell for Jeffrey going to
I Would you fly to Ohio for several months going
over all my books with a fine tooth comb and
find out what's going on? So we know that Wexner
and Epstein were tight, and we know that Epstein was
in charge of Wexner's assets, right, he was in charge

(01:03:17):
of pretty much the whole kit and kaboodle, So it
would make sense that for him to chase the money
down that Wexner would have to give him the keys
to the castle. Right, So again, definitely rings true. Here
on the plane to Paris, Epstein prepped Julie for the meeting.
It was just going to be the three of them, Epstein, Wexner,
and Julie. Julie wasn't attending in any official capacity. She

(01:03:42):
was meeting some friends in Paris, and Epstein invited her
to catch a ride with him on Wexner's plane. She
recalled a nervous and excited Epstein telling her to be
on her best behavior, worried that she might say something
that would make him look bad, and emphasizing how important
this meeting was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, of course it was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
When you're meet eating your handler, it's a big, big deal, right,
when you're meeting one of the people that kicked your
black mal scheme into effect, as in my opinion, Wexner
was involved in. Yeah, of course, you're going to be
telling some girl that's with you that she better be
on her best behavior, right that this is you know,
you're going to deal with the guy that's basically in
control of your life, the one or a handful of

(01:04:22):
people that was in control of what Jeffrey Epstein was
up to so yeah. I could see him definitely telling
her that it's an important meeting and that he expects
her to be on her best behavior, whatever that might mean.
Wexner was this super successful guy who didn't really have
any life, and jeff described him to me as completely
socially inept. Julie said, Jeffrey was like, look at me now, wow,

(01:04:45):
look at where I am, and it was exciting for him.
The meeting, at least to Julie, was nothing momentous. I
remember meeting Leslie at the cafe and all he did
was eat peanuts out of the little peanut tray. And
I remember, just to try and make him feel c comfortable,
I ate the peanuts with him. It was so incredibly awkward,
said Julie. Leslie was shy, quiet, and the meeting was

(01:05:08):
short and uncomfortable. Few words shared, no food served, the
trio sustaining themselves on peanuts alone. I can only imagine
what this author, the author of this article, was saying
to themselves listening to this Julie lady ramble about Wexner
eating peanuts. I mean, have we like delved and fallen

(01:05:29):
into an alternate reality again? Well, I don't even know
what this is, what this is even about. So this
Jeffrey Epstein brought this sealist or Dalist actress with.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Him to go meet Leslie Wexner.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
I mean, really, I never heard anything like this before,
so I guess you know it's a It was a
peanut eating affair and fun was had by all. In all,
it was an eventful, even an uneventful evening. But looking
back now, one can see why Epstein had been so
excited about co up to Wexner. Jeffrey told me this
guy Wexner was everything in the world, but he doesn't

(01:06:05):
have anyone to share it with. And Jeffrey knew all
the girls in the world. That was Epstein's mo o.
Julie said, he takes some rich guy and introduce him
to a girl. I spoke with one woman who said
she met Epstein at an artfare in Palm Beach. He
was direct with her. He came up to me and said,
would you like to would you like a date with
Prince Andrew? She recalled, Look, we know that we know

(01:06:27):
that Jeffrey Epstein was definitely providing girls for the Joe
Exotic of the Winsor family. We know that he was
providing girls for all of these rich people, and Leslie
Wexner too. We know what Virginia has stated in the past, right,
So I would not be shocked if you know he
was providing other young ladies for Wexner and the rest

(01:06:47):
of these people. On top of it, you see, because
at the core of it, Jeffrey Epstein. His plan was
the blackmail. Let's remember it was about the black mail,
this trafficking ring. Of course that had to do with
his sick proclivities, but the blackmail was the real motivation
why this ring was kicked into effect, and more importantly, folks,

(01:07:08):
why it was protected. In the years following, Epstein began
to play a central role in Wexner's life. Jeffrey wasn't
just a money manager, he was a personal assistant. If
Leslie had a problem with his yacht, he was there.
Julie told me. The billionaire handed over huge swaites of
his finances to Epstein's control, sold a plane and a

(01:07:31):
mansion to trust that Epstein controlled, and to the surprise
of his friends and colleagues, went so far as to
hand Epstein his power of attorney in nineteen ninety one.
So remember Okay, Wexner was around from the jump. In
my humble opinion, it was Wexner and Bob Maxwell that

(01:07:51):
got this off the ground financially. Those were the two
power players. Those were the two golden cash cows, and
those were the two people who made everything possible financially
and logistically for Jeffrey Epstein to kick this off. People
have said, it's like we have one brain between two

(01:08:13):
of us. Each has a side, Epstein told Vanity Fair
in two thousand and three. Colleagues and friends of Wexner's
were shocked at Epstein's hold over Wexner. Julie, however, wasn't
that surprised, She recalled Epstein saying to her, this guy
has no life, and I'm going to give him a life.
It was that simple. So I don't really Again, I

(01:08:33):
don't really know if that was the case or if
that was their cover story. Again, remember who we're dealing
with here, folks, people that are involved in spycraft. There's
always an enigma wrapped inside of the conundrum, right, So
was this just their cover story that Wexner had no
life and Epstein was the guy that was going to
give him this life of you know, girls and stuff

(01:08:54):
around him, blah blah blah. Or was it something much
more sinister and that was just the cover story. Epstein's
relationship with Wexner was transformative, if for no other reason
then that he became incredibly rich.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Because of it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Julie says a huge, huge change occurred in Epstein's personality
after his relationship with Wexner began to solidify, and particularly
after he had started amassing his mysterious fortune.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Well, I could see that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
You become bolder, right, You become a lot more bold
when you know you have the Wexner's and the Bob
Maxwells and the Ehud Barocks of the world behind you
and involved in making sure that you're not going to
get caught up. So it definitely changes you and transforms
you and makes you a bit different. In fact, in

(01:09:47):
her mind, three people were responsible for the changes she
saw in her friend. There was Wexner, less directly, there
was Bill Clinton, who reportedly connected with Epstein through the
Clinton Foundation. We know it was before that he was
coming to the White House. Even before then, Jeffrey Epstein
made trips to the Bill Clinton White House. So it

(01:10:07):
was before the Clinton Foundation that they became friends. Okay,
seeing a powerful guy like Clinton get away with what
he got away with, said Julie, who never met Clinton,
I think had just emboldened him to think he could
do whatever he wanted. And above all, there was Gilaye Maxwell.
When he was younger and living in New York, there
weren't lots of young girls. I could see it progressing

(01:10:29):
as he got older, more powerful, more money, Julie told me.
And the Glaine thing, I think is the key. Well,
of course, the girls got younger, and he became more
brazen and more bold. Because once Gilaine came into the picture,
well that was when the intelligence angle really took over.
And once the intelligence players got involved, they knew they

(01:10:51):
pretty much had cart blanche. They could do whatever they want.
A get out of jail free card. You're gonna get
an NDA signed for you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Don't worry.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Nobody's an NPA. No, but he's gonna prosecute you. Don't
worry about it. This is for the greater good. Go
in and sate your disgusting fantasies. You sick monster, is
basically what his handlers told them. So when Gelane showed up,
that was when it was a little easier for him
to have a cover story, a little easier for these

(01:11:19):
girls to be around, because he had Miss Oxford herself
there to try and make it seem normal. Maxwell, the
daughter of billionaire publishing magnate Robert Maxwell, is often called
just called Epstein's right hand woman. Epstein's relationship with her was,
by all accounts, tumultuous, toxic, and life altering for the

(01:11:41):
both of them. Well again, I don't know about toxic really.
I mean, I guess overall, yes, the relationship was toxic,
but I don't go off of the premise that there
was any kind of real relationship there. This was a partnership,
and a partnership not chosen. It was like an arranged
marriage almost right. They have this man, Jeffrey Epstein, who

(01:12:04):
had worked with the CIA or the government, had whoever
you might have penciled in there when he was tracking
down this money for them, And then you have Bob
Maxwell's daughter, mister spy himself, someone who was taught at
his knee in the world of spycraft, and you put
them together to get the operation running. So yeah, hell yeah.

(01:12:27):
When Maxwell showed up, everything kicked into overdrive. Julie related
the dynamics of their relationship to me in the extreme
middle school terms. At first, Jeffrey had a crush on Maxwell,
but she blew him off and treated him like crap.
Shortly after they met, Maxwell's father died after falling off
his yacht. As Julie put it, Maxwell was an emotional

(01:12:49):
wreck and it was here that Epstein went in for
the kill. In Julie's words, Nope, sorry, I don't buy that.
More cover story, more disinformation when in the kill? So
Gilen Maxwell is a victim, right, That's basically what they
want us to believe, and I will not have any
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Folks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I'm sorry. We have read too much, we know too much.
She is responsible for what she did. She could have
went to the authorities when Epstein was arrested the first
time and tried to get immunity. Then she didn't, None
of them did. Apparently it worked, and even though he
would soon become bored and done with her, Epstein continued

(01:13:30):
to take advantage of Maxwell's emotional vulnerability and eventual attachment.
According to Julie, the remainder of their relationship was built
on resentment, mutual jealousy, and a toxic code dependency. Yeah, sorry, Julie,
I don't think you know their relationship that well. I'm
just gonna be honest when I say that here, folks.
Like usual, I'm not gonna hold back. I'll be honest.

(01:13:51):
And I don't really know if I believe Julie's stories here. Sorry,
I just don't know if I don't, if they ring true.
When it comes to Jeffrey Epstein and Guilene Maxwell's relationship,
I don't think she would be privy to the behind
the scenes machinations of their relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
He resented her for rejecting him when she didn't need him,
and now that she did, he was going to exploit it.
She used him, and he used her, and that's where
this whole sexual production line came in. Julie told me
she needed to be essential for him. Recruiting girls is
how she kept her place. She had value for him.
She ran his house. Yeah close, She did run the house.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
She did have value.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
She did recruit girls, but from a leadership position, not
from a position of being forced to do it. Maxwell
has widely been accused of helping orchestrate Epstein's child sex ring.
Dan Kaiser, attorney for one of Epstein's survivors said that
Maxwell was integral in maintaining the sex trafficking ring. She
provided important administrative services in terms of the hiring of

(01:14:55):
recruiters and management of those employees, the making of appointment
and dates for interactions between mister Epstein and underage girls
that were providing sexual services to him. She also maintained
the ring by intimidating girls by ensuring their silence. Yeah,
and she also helped abuse the girls. How about that,

(01:15:17):
We're just gonna we're gonna leave that out. Huh, that's
not something we're gonna add in. Yeah, let's add that in.
Why don't we? She abused these girls with Jeffrey Epstein
and without him, sometimes with Sarah Kellen Vickers. According to reports,
Maria Farmer, one of Epstein's earliest survivors, set under oath

(01:15:39):
that Maxwell brought in a stream of young teenage girls
to Epstein's New York mansion and told The Guardian that
Maxwell was key in making me feel safe. I trusted
her because she is a woman. She would make us
trust her, she would make us really.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Care about her.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
She was so dangerous, and that is the story, right
who Gailaye Maxwell really was not saying that Julie didn't
know Epstein, not saying that Julie wasn't around. But I
think I'm gonna have to go with the survivor's account
of who Maxwell was when she showed people her real face.

(01:16:15):
Gilaine controlled the girl. Sarah Ransom, another alleged survivor of Epstein's,
told the BBC program Panorama she would be the one
getting all the girls in check. She knew what Jeffrey liked.
This was very much a joint effort bingo one hundred percent.
All the evidence leads there. Everything leads home to Gilaine
Maxwell having a leadership role here, and she should be

(01:16:38):
treated in that regard. She should be charged as a
leader in this ring, and she should have every single
rico charge in the history of man that is applicable
dropped right to her feet. Maxwell would also allegedly participate
in the abuse. Maria Farmer and Virginia both say that

(01:17:01):
Maxwell sexually abused them. And we have other girls, what
about Annie. We know we've heard from multiple girls that
Gilaine was in on the abuse itself. And if she
was abusing these girls, don't you think she was abusing
other girls? It's pretty uh, pretty apparent to me that

(01:17:21):
she was abusing a lot of other girls as well.
Because of these allegations and others like them, Maxwell was
on the move for almost a year after Epstein's mysterious death.
She was arrested only recently in New Hampshire in charge
with enticing a minor to travel to engage in criminal
sexual activity, transporting a minor with the intent to engage

(01:17:43):
in criminal sexual activity, conspiracy to commit both of those offenses,
and perjury in connection with a sworn deposition. Again, conspiracy
can't be committed by one person. Conspiracy is two or
more people engaged in a criminal So let's get on
with the two or more people, shall we. In the

(01:18:06):
course of my project, I would come to realize the
Little Black Book was Maxwell's as much as it was Epstein's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Bingo.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Yes, it was not even a question in my mind.
Dozens of people I spoke to were surprised to hear
they were listed in his book, sometimes alongside their parents
or siblings, numbers and home addresses, and just as many
claimed they had never once met Epstein. But nearly all
of these people did have some kind of relationship with

(01:18:34):
Gilann Maxwell. A friend of Maxwell's who had also seen
the book, told me this looks like her address book.
I know several people in here who've never met him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
I would figure.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
About a fourth of the people listed in the Black
Book knew only Maxwell. Of course, that was her role.
Maxwell was in charge of the whole entire entry into
so called polite society. She was the vehicle, She was
the conduit, was the one that opened the doors. So
of course it would make sense that she would be
Jeffrey Epstein's gatekeeper. Like the president has a chief of staff,

(01:19:08):
the person who says and who makes the decision who's
going to see or not see the president. Same sort
of shit here, folks, And it was Gilain Maxwell who
acted in that role, ended in that capacity. Her hand
in the creation of this book is clear. There are
several massage lists for California, Paris, New Mexico, and Florida

(01:19:31):
containing dozens of female first names with numbers beside each.
Next to some of these names are little little notes
in parentheses like GM really likes. I spoke to one woman,
a body worker, who has a note next to her
name in the book that reads GM hasn't tried yet. Oh,
she shouted, that's so fucking creepy. Yeah, imagine, imagine your

(01:19:57):
name's in that book and you had no interaction with
these people, or you know, you've never met Jeffrey Epstein,
or you're just like a massage therapist and this reporter
cold calls you and tells you this stuff. Would I
would just I don't even know. I mean, time to
get a new phone number. Obviously, Gillane was a shark.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Julie told me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Anything you read about her that's positive isn't true. She's
a scary woman. The picture that Virginia drew of Gilaan
I completely believe what she wrote. Julie told me Maxwell
was Epstein's ticket into proper high society. Yeah, how long
have we been talking about that here? How long have
we been talking about the conduits that led to Jeffrey

(01:20:38):
Epstein and this reputation that he had and all of
these people that were involved in it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Now, well they're either doing the.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Marathon defense or some of them, it's getting so close
that it's become a full on sprint. Obviously, but these people,
these were the ones who built this reputation for Epstein.
These were the people who look the other way, and
it was all facilitated by Gilaine Maxwell, her swag and
her you know, so called quote unquote socialite persona. So yeah,

(01:21:12):
this was much more Maxwell's book than Epstein's. I definitely
agree with that one hundred percent. Jeffrey had money, Gilaine
had status. Julie said, yeah, there's no doubt. And that
was again, it wasn't a coincidence. It was set up
like this by the powers that be, at least in
my opinion from the way I see it, my perspective,

(01:21:33):
it was for sure an arranged marriage so to speak,
you know, uh, business wise speaking as far as the
operation goes. And yeah, Kilane was going to be the
person to kick in them doors in. Jeffrey Epstein he
was the money man. Well, they were the ones who
set them up with the money, right Maxwell and Wexner.
He was the one that had the money. Gilaane was

(01:21:54):
the one who had the pizaz to get those doors
knocked in and to get Jeffrey Epstein rubbing elbows with
the right people, so in turn, they could get those
right people caught up in the operation and build the
dossiers on them. Remember, folks, as much as these people
like money, the one thing that is more important to
them than money is information. It was Maxwell who introduced

(01:22:20):
Epstein to Prince Andrew, eighth in line to the British throne.
In an affid David, Roberts claim she was forced to
have sex with Prince Andrew aka the Joe Exotic of
the Windsor family, multiple times in multiple locations. Roberts was
attempting to join a lawsuit against Alan Dershowitz, who succeeded
in keeping other plaintiffs off the case. Her Affidavid was

(01:22:41):
struck from the record in twenty fifteen. Remember twenty fifteen,
we were still embroiled with the cover up. Epstein hadn't
been arrested for the second time, and the cover up
was fully active. Still not any longer. It's the doors
are getting blown wide open, and with Maxwell being arrested
and being left a twist in the wind like this,

(01:23:02):
it signifies that these assets are burned and their handlers
have torched all roads that lead back to them, and
they have abandoned them to their fate. Included in the
Affid David was a two thousand and one photo of
Andrew with his arms around Robert's waist, a smiling Maxwell

(01:23:23):
in the background. Maxwell was indispensable to the world Epstein
had built for himself, but eventually, Julie says he wanted
to dispose of her anyway. He was mean to her
in the end and he wanted her gone. He called
her brain dead, and he'd be rude to her in
front of people. Julie said, it made my skin crawl,
and I didn't even like her treating anybody like that.

(01:23:45):
That's just not right again, in my opinion, all part
of the cover story. The non PC stand up comic.
All he talked to me about was comedy. My wife's
going to be pissed. I talked to you about this,
the self styled pitbull of comedy told me one day.

(01:24:06):
But look, I've got nothing to hide. This was Bobby Slayton,
a stand up comic who was notorious for his racist
and sexist material. He used to call me up and
be like, how do you get on stage with all
this me too stuff? Slayton said. Funny story about Bobby Slayton.
My dad worked in entertainment for a very long time
here in Las Vegas, and he had some pretty high

(01:24:27):
profile jobs in live entertainment. And one of the people
that worked with my dad in a capacity of coming
through for some shows. Is this very Bobby Slayton. So
one time when I was a kid, we're talking a
long time ago. I was probably well, I don't know,
nineteen twenty, maybe a little bit older. Maybe a little
bit older. Anyway, Bobby Slayton calls my parents' house and

(01:24:52):
it was something about work, obviously, to talk to my
dad about the production. And I answer the phone and
he goes, hey, there, put your father on the phone.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
I've now in mind.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
You I've never met this guy, never heard from, never
and didn't even know who the dude was. And that
was the way that he called the house looking to
talk to my dad. So when this dude talks about
how he's like a non PC racist, kind of a
comic kind of due that is that toes the line,
shall we say, there's no doubt I could affirm that

(01:25:22):
just from that one little conversation when I answered my
parents' phone. And according to Bobby Slayton, he was Epstein
whenever he want. Whenever he talked to Epstein, it was
about comedy. And of course Epstein was talking about the
me too stuff, right, that was the stuff that pertains

(01:25:42):
to him the most how do you get by using
that kind of comedy stick these days? And if you're
not familiar with Bobby Slayton's comedy, it is pretty rank
and raw, to be honest with you. Epstein took a
liking to the comedian after seeing him perform at the
Palm Beach Improv in the nineteen nineties. The guy was

(01:26:03):
a big fan of mine, and his girlfriend, Gilaine called
me for his fiftieth birthday party. She said he was
a big fan and wanted me to come entertain and
there was going to be some big, high profile people there.
So I asked, what does it pay and she says, well,
it doesn't pay anything, but we're going to fly you
out and put you up, And I said, what kind

(01:26:23):
of fucking gig is this? Slayton mentioned to Maxwell off
handedly that he might bring his wife to which she answered,
no women. The party fell through, or at least Slayton's
invite did, but Epstein kept in contact with the comedian,
catching his shows around Palm Beach, Miami, and New York.
I could one hundred percent see Jeffrey Epstein enjoying this

(01:26:44):
guy's comedy stick. It's pretty raw, right again, if you're
familiar with this. With Bobby Slayton's comedy stick it is
pretty raw. He was a house comedian here in Las
Vegas at several different places. He did a bunch of
corporate events, and that's where my dad had worked with
him a couple of times at corporate events, So pretty crazy.

(01:27:10):
Epstein invited Slayton to his mansion in Palm Beach for
coffee and to talk about comedy, but when Slayton arrived,
Epstein wouldn't let him inside.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
I gotta tell you, I don't think I've let Bobby.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Slayton in my house either. To be honest with you,
this guy all he does is talk shit, talk trash,
and bash people in the audience at his shows. Even
he showed me the pool in the garage his cars,
but didn't let me in. Slayton said he was never
invited to the private island, but he once brought it
up in conversation with Epstein, who responded that he didn't

(01:27:42):
invite many people out there. When Slayton proposed he and
his wife come out to the island sometime, Epstein responded, no,
no wives. Yeah, well that's funny, weird that no wives
are allowed out there. Huh. Maybe Bobby Slayton just a
lowly comic. His wife isn't allowed out there with him.
But if your Alan Dershowitz, obviously your wife was with you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
According to him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Anyway, according to Jess Staley, his wife was with him.
According to all of these people that have been on
the island, their wives were with them. Why wasn't Bobby
Slayton's wife allowed to go with them? Oh? I know,
because he's just a lowly comic, not important enough to
get caught up in Jeffrey Epstein's blackmail ring. Oh funny

(01:28:24):
enough to you know, if we throw you a few
coins for you to dance for us, clown, but certainly
not part of the club. Jeffrey was a giant comedy fan.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
Huge.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
All he talked to me about was comedy. Slayton said
he was like a little kid talking about it. He
loved guys with an edge. He loved Lewis Black, Sam Kinnison,
Bill Hicks. He liked guys with an edge. Epstein's fondness
for Edginus went well beyond comedy. Julie told me Epstein
liked anything controversial or politically incorrect, and anything to do

(01:28:56):
with the brain. If it was something that no one
else would say, something controversial, even about anything racial or whatever,
he was happy to say it. Well, we know that
he was a rather racist guy from what Maria and
others have said how they spoke about minorities and people
of color. So we know that he was definitely a

(01:29:16):
racist guy, and he probably tried to hide it by saying, oh, well,
I'm I'm just not PC. There's a difference between not
being PC and being an outright racist, Okay, a very
big difference. She liked that about him, but there were
times that became a problem in their relationship. I grew
up really sheltered, she said, and I was never promiscuous

(01:29:39):
or anything. Once at a dinner with Epstein and a
male friend, excuse me, Once at a dinner with Epstein
and a male friend of his, the conversation turned and
became incredibly crude. The men were talking about women, and
Julie was so upset that she got up from the
table and walked out of the restaurant, holding back tears,
and flagged a cab to leave. Epstein followed her and

(01:30:01):
climbed into the cab with her. Julie was crying. I
felt like Jeffrey was amused by me being naive. It
was amusing to him, so Jeffrey Epstein followed her into
the cab after making crude comments with a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
In a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
I mean, I don't know, but you would think that
Jeffrey Epstein was making crude comments all the time, Julie said.
A friend of hers dumped Epstein for being racist after
a racist remark by him sparked an argument between the two. Again,
more corroboration of the things that Maria was telling us.

(01:30:38):
How many times are we going to hear from other
people little tidbits like this and put it all together
and build the puzzle. It's so clear for you to see, folks,
If you have been following the podcast for all seven
hundred and eighteen articles on this crazy ass journey, then
you definitely see what's going on here. If you're new

(01:30:59):
to the pod, buckle in, folks, we still got a
long journey to undertake. When a model in their social
circle began to do nonprofit work in Africa, Epstein and
several of his intellectual friends told her, as she phrased it,
that Africa is a waste. There's nothing that you can
do that's ever going to help. It's a waste of money. Well,

(01:31:22):
you know, Bill Clinton sure loved to go to Africa
and act like he cared. All of these people act
like they care about Africa, but they don't. It's just
a talking point for a lot of these people and
a way for their charities to bring in some more dough.
In his conversation with Slayton, Epstein was cagey, stopping short
of offering his own opinion on things like me too.

(01:31:45):
He didn't really get into any of his own opinions.
He just asked a lot of questions. He asked the
kinds of questions that a young comic would ask in
comedy class.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Was he funny?

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
No, the sportscaster he said, Okay, you can go now.
He asked a lot of questions. He didn't talk much.
He was bland, said Susie Schuster, an Emmy winning sportscaster
currently at the NFL Network. Schuster was fresh out of
college when she ran into Epstein and Maxwell at a
social event in New York. I just thought Gilaine was

(01:32:17):
so glamorous. Schuster glamorous. Shuster working for Andrew Neil, then
one of Rupert Murdoch Murdoch's top lieutenants at what would
become Fox News, and according to Schuster, there was a
great deal of overlap between Epstein and Neil's social circles.
Oh one hundred percent. Anyone who doesn't think that Rupert
Murdoch and his social circle was overlapping with Jeffrey Epstein's

(01:32:41):
doesn't know anything about New York high society. These people, look,
it's not that big of a club, all right, people
like us and like Carlin said, we're not invited obviously,
but it's not a very big club at all.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
So all of these people.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Who have big do ramis, who run around New York
City are all friendly with each other. They're all paling around,
and they're all having laughs at our expense. A few
days after meeting Epstein, Gilaine called Schuster and told her
that Jeffrey would like to have lunch with her at
his townhouse in New York. I thought to myself, like

(01:33:18):
a total jackass, I am so interesting and so smart.
He must want to go on a date with me,
she said, I was twenty two.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
What did I know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
Schuster was greeted at the door by the butler, while
Epstein descended the large staircase by the entrance, dressed in
a sweatshirt and jeans.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
Well, at least he didn't have.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
His sweatpants on. Huh, the cool sweatpants that good old
Jeff liked to wear around all over the place. Friggin' moron.
Epstein gave Shuster a full tour of the house, including
the master bedroom and massage room, the same room where
dozens of alleged assaults took place, and he and his
staff serve them lunch in the large parlor downstairs. Schuster

(01:34:01):
was just about to begin coverage of the nineteen ninety
six election, but Epstein didn't offer his own views about
the election during the conversation, or about anything really. He
had a really disarming way of making himself a peer
brighter than he was. Schuster said, but you knew you
weren't sitting with the brightest person in the room. Yeah,
that definitely rings true. From all the accounts we have heard,

(01:34:23):
we know that this guy wasn't super smart. He wasn't
running around with the brain like one of these mit
clowns that he was hanging out with. He was faking
the funk, right. He was the odd man out, the
guy that was allowed to hang out because he brought
all the weed. Right, there's always that guy, right, Nobody
really wants to hang out with him. But the dude

(01:34:44):
got all that bomb ass chronics. So we're gonna let
him come kick it tonight. And that's the scientists with Epstein.
They're like, oh, he has all the girls and all
this money. All right, so I call Jeffrey, let this
dude hang out. After an hour and a half, Epstein
abruptly ended the conversation. I remember clear as day. Schuster said,

(01:35:04):
he said, okay, you can go now, and he just
went down into his garage and in his car, and
I just walked out. Uh okay, Well I don't really
know what that adds to the story, but all right,
the art student, I remember being so scared that I
wouldn't get out. He was supposed to invest in my

(01:35:24):
screenplace that a woman will call Tracy. When working my
way through the book, I try to steer clear of
any known survivors, but given the large swath of survivors
Epstein had accumulated, it was bound to happen that I
would eventually find someone who had been assaulted by Epstein.
My phone call with Tracy by far was the most
difficult of.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
The entire experience.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah, well, I can only imagine, right, because I've been
there myself, so I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
What if you were the city's best mechanic, but no
one could find your business online with Cox's business Internet.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Tracy told me her friend and had been commissioned by
Epstein to paint, and she tried to get Tracy to
go on a date with Epstein. Tracy had a boyfriend
at the time, and she declined, but when her friend
told her that Epstein was a philanthropist who funds artists
and would fund the screenplay she was working on, Tracy
agreed to meet with him in his New York townhouse.
I was there on a business meeting. I was dressed

(01:36:20):
for business. I had a boyfriend. The butler answered the door,
and down the stairs came Epstein, wearing a white T
shirt and ripped up jeans. Tracy was taken aback by
the size of the staff at the house. People came
in with food, she recalled. People were asking me if
I wanted a massage. I told him no. She remembered
climbing a marble staircase and walking into a huge grand room.

(01:36:45):
Epstein acted like a gentleman for two hours, Tracy said,
We talked about Dolly the sheep cloned in nineteen ninety
six to great fanfare, and the whole cloning thing, and
he told me he had a place down in Mexico
where that he was already working on clone humans, and
very interesting. There are folks nineteen ninety six, Zorro Ranch
already working on cloning humans, Santa Fe Institute, and Los

(01:37:11):
Alamos Zoro dead smack in the middle of both of them. Again,
when is the story, the real story of New Mexico
going to be revealed? We had an interesting talk for
about two hours, and at the end of the meeting
he groped me. I started crying and wanted to get out,
and remember being so scared that I wouldn't get out

(01:37:33):
because there were so many people working there. I really
thought I might not get out of there. Epstein tried
to hand Tracy at check, ostensibly for the screenplay. Tracy
had gone there to discuss, but she turned and fled
out the door. She called her boyfriend immediately after the
incident and has never told more than a couple of
close friends about it, since I don't understand who these

(01:37:55):
boyfriends are, because I know my reaction wouldn't be not
to say any thing. I'd be showing up over at
old Boy's house. I'd be waiting for dude to come
out of his house and me and him would have
a real long talk about how you conduct yourself during
a business meeting, especially with my girlfriend. It is just

(01:38:16):
so bizarre to me that there was no none of
these guys, so called guys, or people around these girls
like Tracy here, who stepped up and went and confronted Epstein.
Old Boy would have got the business. I can't even
I don't have one friend, honestly, one person that I'm
close to that I consider a friend that wouldn't have

(01:38:37):
peaced Epstein up over this. That big mouth of Jeffrey Epstein's,
most assuredly would be turning into.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
A black eye.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
She thought about speaking about when the first round of
allegations became became public, but she decided not to out
of fear for her safety. I was always afraid because
I knew he was really powerful. And you're going to
think it's totally crazy, but I bet you he cloned himself,
and whoever killed themselves was a clone. I tried not
to think about it. I wouldn't put it past that

(01:39:10):
he's out there somewhere. He said he had a lab
in Mexico because the dolly thing got shut down. And look,
I've you know, who the hell knows?

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
At this point, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:39:20):
There's really nothing that I just out of hand, just ignore.
When it comes to Epstein, we know that he was
dealing with some serious people down there in New Mexico.
When it comes to scientists, is his DNA on ice?
Are they going to clone him like the Emperor?

Speaker 1 (01:39:36):
Who the hell knows.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
After the incident, Tracy was inundated by phone calls from
a woman asking her to go to dinner with Epstein.
Tracy confronted her friend, who had recommended the meeting, and
learned that the painting her friend had been commissioned for
were paintings of vaginas.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
Oh that's nice. You don't warn your friend. Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
You don't warn your friend that this dude wants you
to commissioned you to paint a bunch of vaginas.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Okay, because that's normal behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
She didn't warn me. She didn't seem surprised. I was
kind of mad at her, said Tracy. When I told
her what happened. She said, he just likes to watch
people shower.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
He won't touch you. I said, are you crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Racy told me that she reported the incident to the
New York the New York Attorney General's Office after Epstein's
arrest in twenty nineteen. Still worried about her name getting
out and inviting retribution, she submitted the tip through the
office's website. That's interesting because I wonder how many girls
survivors and victims of Epstein have done the same thing,

(01:40:39):
tried to come forward anonymously, and have been.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Ignored the yogi.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
I saw the whole thing start to form. Calling people
up and asking them about Jeffrey Epstein resulted in a
lot of panicked hang ups, expecting which I was expecting.
One day, I called up the number listed in the
book for a financial excuse me for a financier named
David Mitchell, who identified himself on the phone to me
as David Mitchell after I asked for David Mitchell, but

(01:41:09):
when I mentioned Epstein suddenly he insisted I had the
wrong number. The next day I read that Epstein's bond
was co secured by his brother Mark Epstein and a
friend identified as David Mitchell. Joe Pagano told me I
never met him, and I don't know what you're talking about,
despite profiles identifying him as a close friend of Epstein YEP. Unfortunately,

(01:41:31):
this is the case anytime I've contacted people in regards
to their relationship with Epstein, I've been stonewalled, pretty much ignored.
Nobody called back. I'm talking even like you know, DA's prosecutors,
people like that. Even it seems like everybody is on
the run from the Epstein fallout, and nobody is willing

(01:41:54):
to step up and do the right thing on their own.
So that's why I always talk about them being compelled
to do so. Others seemed willing to talk, if haltingly,
only to turn on their heels later on. One particularly
ominous interaction was with Epstein's personal yoga instructor, who met
him in ninety two and traveled with him and Gilaine

(01:42:17):
as a personal yoga teacher. For the fifteen minute phone call,
he somberly beat around the bush, speaking in long, thoughtful
pauses and letting his sentences trail off. I met him
on his thirty ninth birthday. The last time I saw
him was shortly after Clinton left the White House. It
was two thousand and one, maybe two thousand and two.

(01:42:37):
I was with him in Palm Beach, Columbus, Ohio, and
New York Santa Fe.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
I did a lot. It's a long story. It's a
complicated story. He told me. It's a long story.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
Yeah, it's a long story, and we've been waiting for
people to talk about it for decades. So if it's
such a long story, you should probably break it all
down for us now that you're on the phone here
and let us know what occurred.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Huh. Probably a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
I spent a lot of time with Gilaine. She gave
me a lot of insights. My last contact with her
was she used to come out here with Prince Andrew.
What was Gelaine like, Oh, God, that's a whole different story.
I said he could tell me the full story sometime,
and that if you wanted, I would keep his identity
under wraps. He said, no, A lot of people would

(01:43:25):
figure out in a nanosecond who it was. It was
a small little group. I don't imagine many of them
are going to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
Look.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
I've worked with Rupert Murdoch on the far right and
Zach de la Rocha on the far left. I try
to keep my mouth shut. My contacts were very broad.
Oh well, I'm sure they were. But that's all fine
and well. But if you have some information that can
help the investigation, it's time for you to come forward,
mister Yogi, all right, mister stretchy, mister downward dog stretcher guy.

(01:43:57):
Time for you to come forward, and then afterwards we'll
make sure you're paid in a nice tofu reward or something.
I mean, really, if you have information, come forward and
speak on it, because if you're compelled to do so
and they have to issue a subpoena to get you
to talk, you know how much worse that's going to

(01:44:19):
look for you. He went on, slowly, in a kind
of far away melancholy. I saw sides of both of them,
Epstein and Maxwell, that most people didn't see. I saw
the whole thing start to form. By the time I
called him for a few days later, he had a
change of heart. He began shouting at me over the

(01:44:40):
phone about how he planned on suing me, that I
was not to print anything we spoke about. Well, okay,
so obviously this yogi, mister Yogi yoging tin needs to
be swooped up and compelled to speak with a subpoena.
If he's talking about suing people, please give me a break,
as if any of the which people want a case

(01:45:01):
to get to discovery. Julie repeatedly told me she never
witnessed any kind of darkness, but that looking back, she
regrets not picking up on what she now sees as
red flags.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
I wish when he told me he was doing naughty
things in Florida, I took it seriously.

Speaker 2 (01:45:21):
Yeah, probably would have been a good idea, Julie, if
you would have taken it seriously. Epstein's affection for young
women was no secret, as Donald Trump put it in
New York Magazine in two thousand and two. It is
even said that he likes beautiful women as much as
I do, and many of them are on the younger side.
Epstein was very aware of his reputation and reveled in

(01:45:43):
the attention it got him. I remember he was dating
Shelley Lewis aka Chocolate Souse.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
She looked like a.

Speaker 2 (01:45:51):
Little, completely undeveloped girl. Julie said she was definitely legal age,
but she looked really pre pubescent physically. He was walked
fucking around a popular mall with her and finding it
funny that people thought he was her father. If Epstein
was at all embarrassed about the nickname given to his
Boeing seven twenty seven, the Lolita Express, he didn't show it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
He had the.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
Book Lolita around, you know, he had multiple homes and
there'd be a Lolita on the table somewhere. He had
more than one copy, Julie said. He always thought it
was funny. Yeah, oh, real funny, real funny. And all
of the people around them, all the seeing the book,
and you don't put two and two together, it's because
you didn't want to put two and two together. If
you didn't, it's it's because you didn't care, or you

(01:46:36):
were benefiting in some way from Jeffrey Epstein. All of
these people that talk about, oh, I didn't know anything.
I had no idea. Give me an absolute break. Okay,
what seems now like obvious signs of trouble had tidy,
unquestioned explanations at the time. The young messus is at
Epstein's side. For instance, I knew that Jeffrey needed a

(01:46:58):
lot of massages, so it didn't see madd Julie said,
I asked why Epstein needed a lot of massages, expecting
some answer about a physical ailment, but instead Julie told
me that Epstein had said that his add tendencies necessitated
frequent massage for him to clear his head. Oh yeah, massages.
Huh quote unquote massages air quotes. We know what he

(01:47:21):
meant by massages three girls a day.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
Do the math.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Much of Epstein's personality that was chalked up to being
eccentric by Julie at the time now seems incredibly effed
up in retrospect. I used to call him on his birthday,
Julie said, and he was always really short on the phone,
but sometimes he would sort of snicker and laugh and say, oh,
I've been so bad. I didn't know what it meant
at the time, And he used to be full of

(01:47:46):
crap sometimes and say things to try and make himself
look interesting, But now I do uh yeah. Look, Jeffrey
Epstein was a sick man, and he was brazen about it.
He threw it right and everybody face, the decor, the
different items around his house, etcetera, etcetera. Epstein called Julie

(01:48:10):
after his sentencing in two thousand and seven. He said
I'm going to jail and didn't explain why. And afterwards
I started to pay attention to the case, and when
he got out, I just thought, this guy hasn't learned anything.
She cut ties with him after his sentencing. Well, that's
at least one thing Julie did that I agree with here.
If you didn't cut ties with Epstein after the sentencing,

(01:48:31):
nobody has any defensible ground to defend here.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
If you were still hanging out with this guy after
the sentencing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
Then you have no.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Excuse and you have no one to blame but yourself
for any negative publicity that comes your way. Julie recalled
that Epstein had a habit of telling inappropriate stories about
the daughter of one of his girlfriends, a woman Julie
knew his Well, okay, so we know that that's Eva

(01:49:02):
Anderson Dubin right right away. Eva Anderson Dubin for sure.
And the daughter, the young daughter, uh something with a
c Celia Cecily, something like that. Either way, Epstein had
a trust in this girl's name even and he also
said he wanted to marry her, this little girl, the
daughter of Anderson Dubin and Glenn Dubin. Some of them

(01:49:31):
would be like, you know, sometimes little kids say sexual
stuff and it's just innocent. But he'd repeat those stories
because he thought they were really funny. And I thought
he was a little too interested in that. I remember
thinking they weren't that funny.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
Why would an.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
Adult tell this story, said Julie. I just remember being
slightly uncomfortable, not like I thought he was going to
be a predator, but just that it was a little inappropriate.

Speaker 1 (01:49:53):
Yeah, no, you're a predator.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
If you're regaling about little girls and teenage a little
fourteen year old girls or whatever it may.

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
Be, you're probably a predator.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Okay, those aren't funny jokes jokes about pedophilia. Who's making
them kind of jokes? She shared with me an idea
of hers that she seemed uncomfortable even to speak out loud.
That Epstein's sickness had its roots in his relationship with
this particular girlfriend, Eva Anderson Dubin. In my opinion, he

(01:50:23):
loved her, but she was never going to marry him
and it wasn't going to work. Julie said, he loved
her more than anyone. She was like family. And then
she has this beautiful daughter, the girl in Julie's estimation
was like a miniature version of her mother. I think
that might have been what got his interest in young girls. Well,
I don't think that's the case. I think it was

(01:50:44):
long before that. We've heard about Montreal and we've heard
about his going ons there, right, But there is no
doubt that he had some sort of sick fascination with
Glenn Dubin's daughter, zero doubt in my mind. And to
be honest with you, I have no idea how anyone
under this sun could let Jeffrey Epstein be around their kid.

(01:51:07):
Julie was only speculating. What she didn't know is that
in the back of my copy of the Black Book
there are a couple pages handwritten, ostensibly by Rodriguez.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
The butler.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
Reading it, I get a sense that Rodriguez was compiling
an addendum to the book in order to aid law enforcement.
On one page, titled important Email Address, Rodriguez lists the
personal emails for Epstein and Maxwell, as well as several
listings with tags next to them like witness interacted and
chat daily with underage girls, Important witness and scout for

(01:51:38):
Young Pamela's Whatever that means, I'll tell you what it
means young girls, another code word, another code word, Another
name and number is tagged is tagged as and how
Citrus Systems programmer, right next to another listing for Ahud
Barack's secret service personnel. Months after Julie told me about

(01:51:59):
the girlfriend and her, I reread the handwritten page attached
to the book and saw the girlfriend's name and phone
number near the bottom with a tag next to her
entry reading former model and mother of naked pick Ay.

Speaker 1 (01:52:12):
Yeah, yay.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
Look, the relationship with the Dubins and Epstein needs to
be focused on. It needs to be blown out of
the water. We know about the little girl, the Swedish girl,
and we know about Jeffrey Epstein's sick fascination with their daughter.
And there's a lot more there, folks, a lot more
real disgusting stuff, in my opinion. On one of our

(01:52:38):
last phone calls, Julie broke down. It was late at night,
and Julie, who tried to steer away from news about
the Epstein case, had just watched the Netflix documentary Jeffrey
Epstein Filthy Rich. The documentary features several in depth interviews
with some of Epstein's survivors, and they each walk through
the details of their assault at his hands, the atrocities

(01:52:58):
that Epstein committed, and the scope of suffering he exacted
on his victims had become real and undeniable. She wept
as she recalled diary entries she'd read earlier in the day.
He was a monster, and he was a monster. What
he did was so sick, you know. And then I
read my diary and I saw how nice he was

(01:53:19):
when I was going through a major family crisis or
a breakup or something. And it hurts to still miss
that part of him. Julie said, he was my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:53:27):
Uh uh, what.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
I don't Honestly, I don't understand how you could feel
any compassion or empathy for Jeffrey Epstein. He wasn't even
your friend. He was just wearing a mask. You didn't
even know who Jeffrey Epstein was. He had a mask
on for the world to see, and underneath that mask
was his true face. And the survivors they got to

(01:53:53):
see that true face. The assistant's old hippie mother. He
thought she was a really intelligent blonde. Transcript of a
phone call with a self described old hippie whose teenage
daughter began working for Epstein in his Palm Beach mansion
around two thousand and two, just a few years before
Epstein's first arrest. Me. How much time did she spend

(01:54:15):
with Epstein at his place, Old hippie quite a bit? Me,
so this law must have been difficult for her then,
Old hippie, Nah, it's not difficult at all.

Speaker 1 (01:54:24):
Why would it be difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
Tell me why you think it would be difficult? Me, Well,
just the proximity alone to something that happened that was
so horrific. Old hippie, Well, you know what I think, laughing.
If people take payment, and he paid people, well, then
later they shouldn't complain. I mean, that's you know, one
thing my daughter said one time too me. Okay, and

(01:54:49):
did your daughter get paid well too, old hippie, Yeah,
sure me okay. How did she end up getting that job?
Old hippie, Well she's a gorgeous blonde. Me nervous, uncomfortable laughter. Yeah. Well,
a couple of Epstein's friends told me that if he
ever needed someone for a task or whatever, they would

(01:55:09):
find him a beautiful young blonde to do it. Old hippie, Well,
she's beautiful. She's six feet tall, she's gorgeous. My daughter
is a very strong person. Me. You said she got
calls from some reporters and got sick of it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:23):
Old hippie.

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
Nah, she only got a few calls and she had
nothing to say. There's nothing negative to say. Me. Do
you think she'd be interested in talking to me, old hippie?
I don't think so. I probably already told you more
than she would here here, I let her know I'd
be interested in hearing her daughter's story.

Speaker 1 (01:55:41):
Old hippie.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
Well, I remember one other thing when he was going
to Africa with Bill Clinton.

Speaker 1 (01:55:47):
You remember that?

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
Me? Yeah, old hippie. Well, Jeffrey wanted her to go. Me, oh, really,
old hippie.

Speaker 1 (01:55:55):
She said no. Me what she say? No for old hippie.
She didn't want to get any shots.

Speaker 2 (01:56:01):
Me. Oh wow, really dodged the bullet there, Old hippie.
It wasn't important to her, But he really wanted her
to go because he thought she was really intelligent.

Speaker 1 (01:56:11):
Blonde.

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Let me ask you something.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Do you think he killed himself? Old man? The old
hippie and the blonde?

Speaker 2 (01:56:18):
Huh? Look, there's a lot out there for you sleuths,
right for you investigators out there plenty of ties to
tie together. Here folks the man from O Rgy. Months
after Epstein's death, I dialed up the last remaining listing
in my book, a random number in the UK. It

(01:56:38):
was disconnected. The media had mostly moved on from the case,
and I was left to sift through the hours of
interviews I'd done over the course of some two thousand
phone calls. Yeah, the media might have moved on, but
guess what not us? Not people like Jen and Lisa
over on their podcast, Not people like ROBERTA.

Speaker 1 (01:56:57):
Glass.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
We certainly haven't moved on. One thing was abundantly clear.
Epstein's Black Book does not offer a portrait of a
guy with many friends.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
Yeah, he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:57:10):
He didn't have friends. I've said this from the beginning.
You have to have empathy, and you have to not
be an absolute scumbag and to be capable of love
to have real friendships. Right. I love my friends. I
would do anything for my real friends. I don't think
Jeffrey Epstein had it in him. The book is a
product of a systemic effort to collect human beings. A

(01:57:34):
huge number of the relatively normal professional class people I
spoke to were shocked their number was in the book
at all. Either, they said they had never met him,
or that they had a single superficial interaction with him.
It's as if Epstein had tried to reverse the usual
dynamics of fame and power. He seemed to know more
people than knew him. If Epstein had a talent, it

(01:57:57):
was for knowing how much of his interest needed to
parcel out in order for people, scientists, stand up comics,
aspiring models to feel flattered by his attention. Well, I
think in some cases that might be true, right, But
really a lot of these people it was about the
money and the prestige, not about flattery. There were plenty

(01:58:21):
of clues that Epstein was a poser. Ask around the
finance world and you'll be hard pressed to find anybody
who actually traded with the supposed billionaire investment broker. Asked
the scientists in his orbit, and they'll tell you. As
Stuart Pavar told me that he didn't know shit from
Shinola about science. Stephen Pinker, trying to distance himself from Epstein,
told New York Magazine, despite what various friends and colleagues

(01:58:44):
all said, what a genius he was, I found him
tedious and distasteful, a kibitzer more than a serious intellectual. Yeah,
you sure took his money, though, didn't you, Pinker? You
sure hung out with him, didn't you the Pinker? And
then you went and deleted anyone I blocked anyone on
Twitter who meant your name along with Jeffrey Epstein, didn't
you Pinker? Ask the art people in his life, and

(01:59:06):
they'll tell you about the fakes and forgeries. He was
amused to put one over on the world by having
fake art. Pavar told me he thought that he was
seeing through the fallacy, and yet Epstein's reputation for genius persists.
Most of what I heard Epstein's peers adduced to his
brilliance amounted to no more than half baked contrarianism. He
wasn't afraid to stir things up or boiler plate ted

(01:59:29):
talk drivel. Jeffrey was a big fan of transhumanism. When
I pressed people to tell me about the guy about
what he thought about the world, they rarely had an answer. Yeah,
he was living a different life.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:59:44):
What they saw and what Jeffrey Epstein really was were
two very different things. Jeffrey Epstein was your quintessential asset.

Speaker 3 (01:59:57):
When we keep Idaho's students in classrooms have better physical
and mental health. Help keep the student you love in
school by getting him vaccinated if they're eligible, make sure
they wear a mask, frequently, wash their hands, and stay home,
and get tested when sick. Our teachers and other school
staff can also do their part by choosing to vaccinate,
wearing a mask, and supporting other preventive measures. For more

(02:00:20):
information on preventive measures, please visit Coronavirus dot Idaho dot
gov or contact your child's school.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
This man took his job serious, and he definitely played
the game. When I press people to tell me about
the guy about what he thought about the world, they
rarely had an answer. I was repeatedly told that he
never really got into what he thought about whatever particular
subject was being discussed, and that he had a knack

(02:00:49):
for making himself seem smarter and more interesting than he
really was. Well, you know, they always say, right, keep
your mouth shut, and nobody will tell you you're stupid
opening it up, and well, quite easy to find out.
Every time I did manage to drill down into something concrete,
some actual idea or thought of his, it was a

(02:01:09):
mixture of psychotic silicone, valley drivel, and freshman year, Bong
water philosophy delivered to me with total reverence. You have
to write this in your story. This is something I
learned from Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 (02:01:20):
This was his line.

Speaker 2 (02:01:21):
Julie told me people make mistakes because they don't think
about what they can lose, only what they can gain.

Speaker 1 (02:01:28):
This is what I took from him.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Yeah, Jeffrey Epstein really was just a world class advice giver. Huh,
the kind of guy that you really want to sit
down with and get some life advice. I mean, just
bring in chocolate sauce for the win. Here, we'll have
chocolate sauce. Come in, We'll have Jeffrey Epstein give us
life advice, and everybody will just have just a fantastic time.

(02:01:53):
After Epstein's arrest in twenty nineteen, a media narrative coalesced
around the question of his strange place in the globebal elite.
Epstein the master salesman, a man who had skillfully conned
his way into the world's most powerful circles, fooling everyone
in the process. But after my travels through the book,
after hearing more of the petty gossip and childish drama

(02:02:14):
of the people who rule our world I realized that
was obviously incorrect. Built into the premise of Epstein, the
mastermind scammer is the notion that some kind of legitimate
path to a legitimate global aristocracy exists. To call Epstein
a grifter is to assume he circumvented some genuine metocratic

(02:02:36):
world order where the real virtuosos dutifully climb the real
ranks into the oligarchs, powered by nothing but their native talents. Yeah,
that's not the case at all, these people. It's a
world of nepotism, a world of trade offs, and a
world of selling one's soul and selling who you are.

(02:02:56):
These people end up in these positions of power, elected
or otherwise, and they are completely and utterly turned into
something that is not even recognizable as a human. The
truth is that the elite world that Epstein ascended into,
the one I tapped into by way of the Black Book,
is populated with hordes of loathsome boring, untalented people living

(02:03:21):
their bumbling, idiotic lives while just so happening to wield
some share of the preposterous global bounty that he and
the rest were after. That is a perfect paragraph for
these people so called polite society being put on blast
by the author I like it because, guess what, these

(02:03:41):
people are sick. They're very sick folks, and they think
they're better than us, but they are not, and the
time for them having us under their thumb is slowly
coming to an end. For all the mystery surrounding Epstein's fortune,

(02:04:03):
its existence is hardly more inscrutable than the wealth of
any of his other billionaire peers. He earned it the
same way they all did, which is to say, precisely.

Speaker 1 (02:04:12):
Not at all. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:04:13):
Look, the money laundering factor swings right into this, right,
it goes right into the undercurrent of the major conversation
we're having, and the fins and files play right into this.
If it wasn't for the way they manipulate those money markets,
do you really think that these people would be able
to operate the way they were able to operate. This

(02:04:37):
wasn't some masterful hack into global aristocracy. It's what everyone does.
It's what the whole thing is. There is no scam here.
It's grifting grifters all the way down, and that is
the case, there's no doubt. But there's real life consequences
for those of us at the bottom. Here, while these

(02:04:57):
people are grifting and grifting and grifting from the other,
we're the ones that are really paying the price with
our fortune, our freedoms, and our futures. In a way,
it's easy to understand the impulse of Epstein's network to
make him into something more than he was. The self

(02:05:18):
flattering idea that there was some ineffable substance to him,
some bright light within that explains the ease with which
he accrued social and temporal power, has a match in
much of the conspiracizing about the scandal and his death.
The difference is the conspiracy theories actually seem plausible. I'm

(02:05:41):
the farthest thing from a conspiracy theorist. I'm always I
rely on Ockham's razor for most.

Speaker 1 (02:05:46):
Things in my life.

Speaker 2 (02:05:48):
But when it comes to this case, folks, I think
we've left conspiracy theory a long time ago, and we
are embroiled in the world's largest cover up. Maybe this
is simply a product of my own Epstein adult brain.
It's impossible to tell. I've now spent more than a
year of falling down a series of rabbit holes plus

(02:06:09):
far thus farwithstanding permanent psychic damage. Look, I understand that completely.
This is such a heavy topic, and this is a
detailed article, so I know that this journalist is not
talking out of his ass. This is somebody who spent
time on the case, somebody who has made these phone
calls and really dedicated a part of themselves to it.

(02:06:31):
And I totally understand that we're over a year straight
here talking about this case every single day. How many
times do I tell you? I feel like I have
to take a bleach bath. So I totally understand what
this guy's talking about. I can report that the current
grand unified theory of Jeffrey Epstein goes like this. He
was indeed operating a child sex ring.

Speaker 1 (02:06:53):
Check.

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
He was videotaping members of the global elite engaged in
sex acts with underage girls on his private island. Check
and he was using his footage to blackmail them, either
for his own personal enrichment or on behalf of any
number of intelligence agencies check check check. The Epstein as
intelligence angle posits either that he was conducting the sex

(02:07:15):
trafficking at the government's request, or that he was already
doing the trafficking when the governments took notice and starting
using him as an asset. I think it's a little
bit of both. Okay, I think it's a little bit
of both. They knew that he had proclivities, and he
was on their radar, but he wasn't engaged in a huge,
monstrous operation like this. Then well, once the once the

(02:07:41):
intelligence really got involved and the jerk off from the
CIA showed up, well it became what we seen. The
theory neatly justifies both his untraceable wealth and outlandish special
treatment in the criminal justice system, and there is some
compelling evidence to go along with it. Prosecutors rated his

(02:08:01):
home in twenty nineteen. A safe was found containing multiple
CDs with the label young Name plus Name. Also found
was a fake Austrian passport containing his photograph and a
spoof name that listed his residence as Saudi Arabia. This
safe also contained forty eight loose diamonds and seventy thousand

(02:08:21):
dollars in cash. In August twenty nineteen, citing a friend
of Gilean Maxwell, Vanity Fair reported that Epstein and Maxwell
had the Island home completely wired for video and that
they were videotaping their guests as a form of blackmail.
We've heard this from a lot of the survivors, right,
and not only the survivors we've heard it from it

(02:08:43):
specialists like Steve Scully, both Virginia Roberts, and another Epstein accuser,
Chante Davies, makes similar allegations. When I mentioned the video
surveillance to Julie, she said, Oh, yeah, there's a security
room with a bunch of TVs. Jeffrey introduced me to
the guy who watched them. The guy who watched them. Huh,
that would be an interesting conversation. I wonder who was

(02:09:04):
in charge of monitoring those TVs. But the most damning
evidence of Epstein's conspiracy is the absurd plea deal offered
by US Attorney Alexander Acosta in two thousand and seven,
after investigators had identified dozens of underage girls who'd been
sexually abused by Epstein. Acosta granted federal immunity to any

(02:09:28):
potential co conspirators of Epstein's and absolutely unheard of provision,
particularly in the case of an alleged serial child molester.
And let's take a minute here to remember that it
was not just Acosta. Okay, Acosta is the guy who
is catching all of the flack here, But in reality,
do you think the decision was like, this was just

(02:09:50):
made by Acosta. Of course it wasn't. It was signed
off on by Mukhesi and other people. So while Acosta
should have never been part of the Trump administration, should
have been fired, I'm okay with all of that. We
can't just lay all the blame at his feet. He
has bosses too, and we know how this works. Also

(02:10:13):
within the plea deal was another unheard of provision stating
this agreement will not be made part of any public record,
a cover up that was found to be illegal until
an appeals court reversed it on a technicality. A technicality, right,
you remember? Why do you think I'm always so going
so crazy about technicalities. That's the only way these people
get off. It's not because they're innocent ever, It's not

(02:10:35):
because they bring evidence to prove their innocence. It's because
they use technicalities. That's how they get off. Calling this
a sweetheart deal doesn't even come close to capturing it.
The Feds never introduced to fifty three page indictment they
had prepared, and even though nearly thirty victims were interviewed,
Epstein only ended up being charged only with the procurement

(02:10:58):
of an underage girl for prostitute. An underage girl cannot
be a prostitute. That law is so ridiculous. The FEDS
dropped their case, and Epstein ended up serving thirteen months
in a private wing of a Palm Beach County jail,
where he was chauffeur to and from a luxury office
space for twelve hours a day and allowed to receive

(02:11:19):
female visitors. The worst part is that this cover up
essentially worked for over a decade. That is the most
galling part of it, right. The most enraging part of
all of this is how long it occurred. Alfredo Rodriguez,
the butler who attempted to sell the Black Book, served

(02:11:40):
more jail time than Epstein ever did for serially molesting
underage girls. I said that last night, it's absurd. It
is absolutely absurd. New York brought new charges against Epstein,
arresting him in an airport in July twenty nineteen. In
an effort to find out more about the infamous plea deal,
I spoke to several members of Epstein's two thousand and

(02:12:01):
seven defense team, including Alan Dershowitz, who told me the
plea was put in place to protect the women, which
is very clearly horrendous bullshit that makes no sense whatsoever. Look,
I could have told you there, buddy, if you if
you think you're gonna get anything from Alan Dershowitz, that's
more than just garbage. You're you're really asking for too much.

(02:12:22):
The guy was and is an an obvious scuzzball. Spencer Couvin,
who represented some of Epstein's survivors, flat out accused the
DJ of attempting to protect people like Elaine Maxwell with
the co conspirator provision. My efforts and many and those
of many other reporters have to this day failed to

(02:12:44):
uncover a single shred of even a passable answer as
to why Epstein was offered a plea deal that was
so good it was illegal.

Speaker 1 (02:12:53):
That's hitting a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (02:12:56):
All of you out there that like to, you know,
run mouths and shit on like Twitter about how there's
no evidence or where do you get that from, I
honestly don't understand. There is so much evidence here that
this was so much larger than what anyone ever thought.
The fingerprints of intelligence are everywhere on this. In twenty nineteen,

(02:13:23):
journalist Vicky Ward reported that Acosta, then in charge of
Trump's Labor Department had told the president's transition team that
he cut the deal with Epstein's lawyers after he had
been told to back off. According to Ward, he had
explained himself to Trump's team by saying, I was told
Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone. The
rumors of Epstein the spook are not new. In nineteen

(02:13:46):
ninety two, in the first ever public profile of Epstein,
Mail on Sunday reported that little is known of mister Epstein.
One outrageous story links him to the CIA and Masad.
The most intriguing rumor is that he was a corporate
spy hired by big businesses to uncover money that had
been embezzled. They have them all over the place. You
don't think that there are CIA agents embedded in corporations.

(02:14:11):
You don't think that there are CIA agents at all
of your favorite news outlets.

Speaker 1 (02:14:17):
There are.

Speaker 2 (02:14:18):
Just take a look for how many former CIA agents
ran for office in twenty sixteen, folks. They are everywhere,
unelected bureaucrats that literally have the power of life and
death over us. When I asked Gloria Allred, who is
now representing several of Epstein's survivors about the inscrutable plea deal.

(02:14:40):
She told me there is no good answer. It doesn't exist,
and that's why you can't find it. Sometimes not finding
the answer is the answer. The dark carnival that is
Epstein's case ended with the mysterious death while awaiting trial
in the Metropolitan Correctional Facility in August of last year.
According to New York City medical examiner, Epstein hanged himself

(02:15:01):
with his bed sheet either on the night of August
ninth or early in the morning of August tenth, which,
if true, would make his death the first acknowledged suicide
in fourteen years at the institution. How many times have
I brought that up as well? Sometimes things are what
they are. The cause of his death and the circumstances

(02:15:23):
around it are widely contested. Around half of Americans believe
he was murdered. You can count me in with that half,
and you can count in just about everybody listening to
this program as well.

Speaker 1 (02:15:34):
It doesn't add up.

Speaker 2 (02:15:35):
The facts that they brought to the table do not
add up, folks. A medical examiner hired by Epstein's brother
ruled the death a homicide by strangulation, citing Epstein's broken
hyoid bone, a small U shaped bone just above the
Adams apple that rarely fractures in instances other than violent strangulation.

(02:15:57):
The wounds on Epstein's neck, which drew blood, were not
under the mandibles, as is usual with hanging victims, but
instead around the middle of the neck, which is consistent
with strangulation, and there was no real investigation into this.
They didn't take pictures of the body at the scene
of the crime, They didn't take pictures of the scene
of the crime, the video went missing. They put him

(02:16:19):
in there with Tartaglioni as his cell mate. None of
it makes sense. The wound was also thin and wirelike,
much thinner than a bed sheet, and photos of Epstein's
cell show the bedsheet itself was not bloody. While this
is certainly a curious set of circumstances, none as the
smoking gun in and of itself. But there are more

(02:16:42):
even stranger details around what Attorney General William Barr described
as a perfect storm of screw ups. Epstein had been
placed into a special housing unit after an earlier suicide attempt,
and was to have a cell mate and wellness check
every thirty minutes. Two protocols that were followed on the
night of his death. Well, I don't think he should

(02:17:03):
have had a cell mate, certainly not Tartaglione, a guy
that was in there for killing people. The two guards
were charged with falling asleep at the desk and later
falsifying the necessary records. The three cameras with views of
his cell simultaneously malfunctioned, two had died, and one had
produced footage that was deemed unusual, I mean, unusable. How

(02:17:26):
in the hell can you explain that that's a coincidence
everything just died at once.

Speaker 1 (02:17:30):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (02:17:31):
Okay, Yeah, I'm gonna believe that almost everyone I spoke
to expressed either doubt or total disbelief that his death
was a suicide. Only one person, Alan Dershowitz, believed outright
that he had killed himself.

Speaker 1 (02:17:44):
Yeah. Dershowitz doesn't want this to go on any longer.

Speaker 2 (02:17:47):
Right. The worst thing for Dirty Dirsh, mister I kept
my underpants on, is for this case to keep growing
and for more information to come out, because we all
know that Dirty Dirsh himself is caught up to his
disgusting wrinkled ears. A woman who didn't know Epstein well,
but was close to members of his inner social circle

(02:18:08):
told me it smells to me. I'm not going to
give you any names, but there's definitely people closer to
this story that don't think he killed himself.

Speaker 1 (02:18:16):
Nobody does.

Speaker 2 (02:18:17):
Nobody who was close to this story thinks he killed himself. Nobody,
not Doug shown either. It was Epstein's inexplicable death that
ushered in a frenzy of conspiracy theories. Everywhere you looked
in Epstein's life were nauseating sets of compounding coincidences, and
it seemed that every bizarre detail on earth on Earth

(02:18:38):
led to ten or twenty more, that's for sure. I
mean how I can't tell you how many details of
this case I would unearth or come into contact with,
and then it would lead to just even more questions.
Every time we think we have an answer, it really
is just leading us to more questions. Building off Epstein's
enigmatic reputation and the reports then coming out about his

(02:19:00):
freakish scientific pursuits, some of the conspiracizing became fevered, grandiose,
even occultish, with Epstein depicting as a high ranking official
for some secret world order. Well, I don't believe any
of that nonsense at all. I think that he was
what he was. He was an important asset, right, but
a mid level employee in the grand scheme of things.

(02:19:21):
When it comes to intelligence, this urge to make Epstein's
power sophisticated and complex serves a similar purpose as the
elite's insistence on Epstein's extraordinary genius. Both are ways of
squaring the evident smallness of the man himself with the
vastness of the world he built and the seemingly outsized

(02:19:41):
influence he possessed. Both of them betray a collective lack
of imagination when it comes to just how ludicrously rewarded
dumbasses can be in this country, and not only this country,
all over the world, because let's face it, folks, have
you looked at social media lately, It is full of
just complete and utter jackasses. And these are the people

(02:20:04):
that were sharing air with on a regular basis. Epstein
didn't have to be anything special to become a key
player in an evil conspiracy. He had to be rich,
and he had to be useful to people richer and
more powerful than he was. The very real possibility is
that Epstein was both a rich dumbass and a key
player and an evil conspiracy, because evil conspiracies require nothing more.

(02:20:30):
During one of our last conversations, Julie mentioned in throwaway
fashion a diary entry she had stumbled upon about a
book recommendation from Epstein. Summarizing for me. She explained that
she'd ask EPs She'd asked Epstein why he had so
many girls around. I asked him why he was like this,
she recalled, and he said to me to read some book.
He told me it influenced him to become wealthy. The

(02:20:53):
book was The Man from Orgy, O Rgy and Obscure
nineteen sixty five James Bond to rip Off, written by
Theodore Mark Gottfried under the pen name of Ted Mark.
It's about a con man who travels the world under
the guise of being a sex researcher and ordered a
spy for the US government. The novel begins with the protagonist,

(02:21:14):
Steve Victor and Damascus for the kickoff of an extensive
survey of an Arab and Oriental sex practice. There, he
is approached by a US diplomat and invited to the embassy.
In short order, Victor is recruited to spy for the
US government that's look. I know it sounds weird, but
a lot of times that's how it happens. They're approached

(02:21:35):
and then they become assets. The CIA works like this, folks.
It is disgusting that the United States government pays for
this sort of shit. This research program you're engaged on,
mister Victor, gives you entry to places the United States
Government can never officially investigate. The key to a factor

(02:21:59):
which might prove vital in our handling of international power
politics lies in one of these places. The novel is
an unbearable horror show. It's violent and grotesquely pornographic, containing
Toddler brothels and graphic details of children and infants being
ceremonially raped and trained into sex slavery.

Speaker 1 (02:22:20):
Jesus Christ, So this is.

Speaker 2 (02:22:22):
The kind of book this guy's telling you to read there?

Speaker 1 (02:22:24):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (02:22:25):
And when he recommended this book to you, that wasn't
sign enough to get out of there and never be
around this dude ever again. I mean, holy shit. The
protagonist gets custody of such a slave from the US embassy.
His fake research organization ORGY stands for Organizations for the

(02:22:46):
Rational Guidance of Youth. The girl tells him about being
penetrated multiple times a day since age three, is training
for a life of sex slavery, as well as the
brutal beatings that were part of her training. She tells
him that girls enjoy being raped. Victor Gawk's at and
participates in the sexual mayhem, all the while using his
cover as a sex researcher to spy on Syrian Shake's,

(02:23:09):
steal Soviet launch codes and eventually bring the downfall of
Nikita Krushchev. What do I always tell you? The means
justify the ends to these people. And if you don't
think that there are people like this Victor from this
book out there, you're wrong, folks. Jeffrey Epstein was one
of them. We saw it right here in front of
our own eyes. It played out in front of our

(02:23:29):
own eyes. Julie didn't know what the book was about,
but you remember the conversation, well, it was one of
the last things we talked about. He said to me,
read this book and that will help you understand. Julie
told me, I never read it, and I don't think
I ever will. Well, I don't think that I will
ever be reading it either, folks.

Speaker 1 (02:23:51):
So there you have it.

Speaker 2 (02:23:53):
The second part of our two part series of the
phone calls with everybody in Jeffjeffrey Epstein's Black Book. And
I think that a lot of these people who were
in this black Book, who had relationships with Jeffrey Epstein,
are starting to understand that there are no rocks to

(02:24:14):
hide under anymore, that it's time to come forward and
talk about what you know. If you'd like to contact me,
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.
That's Bobby c ap u Cci at ProtonMail dot com.
You can also find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore

(02:24:35):
c ap u Cci. All right, everybody, I will be
back tomorrow morning and we will pick it back up.
I hope you all have an incredible Sunday night.

Speaker 1 (02:24:45):
Farmer's claim forgiveness means a claim won't increase your premium
if you've been claimed free for five years, so your
premium stays premium.

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The Breakfast Club

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Mega Edition: Jeffrey Epstein And His Black Book (s) (12/25/25)

Stuff You Should Know