Mega Edition: Jeffrey Epstein's Pilots And Their Testimony During The Ghislaine Maxwell Trial (1/1/26)

During the Ghislaine Maxwell trial, testimony from Larry Visoski, Jeffrey Epstein’s longtime pilot, provided jurors with a detailed look at Epstein’s extensive travel patterns and the people who routinely accompanied him. Visoski described flying Epstein on numerous domestic and international trips over many years, including to the U.S. Virgin Islands, New Mexico, and overseas destinations. He testified that young women and girls were frequently passengers on these flights, sometimes traveling without parents or clear explanations for their presence. Visoski’s testimony helped establish the scale and regularity of Epstein’s operations, showing that the movement of underage girls was not incidental but a repeated and normalized part of Epstein’s private air travel.

David Rodgers, Epstein’s former property manager in the U.S. Virgin Islands, complemented Visoski’s testimony by explaining how Epstein’s residences functioned on the ground, particularly on Little Saint James. Rodgers described seeing young girls at the island, observing their interactions with Epstein, and understanding that their presence was sexual in nature. He testified that the girls were often brought to Epstein as part of an expected routine and that staff understood not to interfere. Together, Visoski and Rodgers provided corroborating insider accounts—one from the air and one from the ground—that reinforced the prosecution’s argument that Ghislaine Maxwell was part of a broader, sustained system that enabled Epstein’s abuse rather than a peripheral figure disconnected from it.


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. So we slide
into day two of the Gallainne Maxwell trial, and we
had two witnesses on the stand today. They continued with
the questioning of pilot Larry Vassoski, who had some pretty
interesting things to add to the conversation, and they also

(00:21):
had on a Jane Doe. Now, the Jane Doe is
the young lady who was allegedly groomed and abused from
the Interlocan School in Michigan. It is an art school,
a you know, a ritzy kind of music school, and

(00:44):
that's where her abuse began and where Jeffrey Epstein and
Glaine Maxwell allegedly met her for the first time. And
obviously we don't have a pipeline into the courtroom as
far as audio, so so all we're relying on is transcripts.

(01:04):
But it seems to me that it was a pretty
brutal line of questioning for Jane Doe. And like I
said earlier a million times, that's to be expected. This
is the sort of defense that they're going to pursue.
They're going to look to destroy the credibility of the witnesses,

(01:27):
They're going to look to do whatever they can to
impugne their character, and that is the age old tactic
that has been used in cases like this forever. The
real question becomes is it going to work? Now? Recently
we have seen that it did not work in the

(01:48):
Harvey Weinstein case, it didn't work in the Keith Rayniery
in Nexium case, and it certainly didn't work in the
Bill Cosby case either. Now, obviously Bill Cosby got off
on a technicality, but my point is the argument within
the courtroom, when you're setting these victims up, these survivors

(02:11):
up as being at fault or like they did something wrong.
Let's keep everything into context. Okay, this was a little
girl at school and Epstein and Maxwell, according to her allegations,
thought it would be a good idea to try and
pick her up and groom her and then start traveling

(02:34):
with her all over the country and abusing her at
the same time. Now, I have done an episode previously
on the situation in Michigan. There's an article in the
Daily Mail dealing with it. I'm gonna post that episode
later on and you folks can dive into that if
you'd like. But it was a pretty rough read listening

(03:00):
to her or I guess I should say. Reading back
her account of what occurred and how the whole entire
process evolved. Now, she was coming off of like usual
with Jeffrey Epstein and his cronies. She was in a
situation where her dad had just died, her mom was

(03:22):
certainly not swimming in the dough, and they had some
financial issues. So you have this benefactor that comes riding
in on his white horse with his little associate and
her nice little Oxford accent, and they offer you the world. Now, me,
I'm cynical as hell. I learned a long time ago

(03:45):
from my dad that I don't have any rich uncles.
I don't have any benefactors that are riding in to
save the day for me. So I would be apprehensive,
for sure. But when you're you know, in somebody else's shoes,
I don't know what the deal is in a school
like that. Maybe it's something that happens all the time
I went to public school. I have no idea. But

(04:08):
for me personally, if it was my child, you know,
I would be very cautious of these people just materializing
from nowhere. But again, when you look at the whole
entire situation, there's no reason for this family to suspect
that these people are going to do these heinous acts.

(04:32):
They're on this campus, which is supposed to be a
safe place. Are we not going to talk about how
the school should have a little bit of responsibility for
what happened here? And I guess that really gets down
to the core of my issue with all of this, folks.
And for those of you who have been listening to
me forever, you know all of this already. But there
has been obviously an influx of new listeners in the

(04:53):
last few days due to the nature of the case.
But it's always been one of my biggest issues with
this whole entire thing, and it's just it's aggravating, right,
it is just aggravating. But her on the stand today
put a whole different spin on everything, put a whole

(05:14):
different feel to it. Right. We've heard in the interview
in the Daily Mail when she's you know, talking about
the experiences at the school, what it was like for
But it's a whole different ballgame when you're in the courtroom,
you're testifying, and you're looking at your alleged abuser in

(05:37):
the eye, right, So it's nice to see at the
very least on the ground level, a little bit of
justice is hopefully going to be served up here. But
when you go into it and you dig deeper, it's

(05:58):
situations like how the school is going to get off
without any accountability that are wild to me. And back
to the point I was making earlier, it's something that
I've drilled home for quite some time on this podcast
because all of the enablers, the people around Epstein, all
of these people that were helping him rebuild his image,

(06:20):
helping him harbor his secrets, all of these people are culpable.
Now there's different levels of culpability, right. Not everybody was
involved in the actual abuse part what was going on here,
But there are a bunch of players on the stage,
some of them that were named today at the trial,
that are accused, incredibly accused, i might add, of actually

(06:44):
taking part in the abuse. You have people like George Mitchell,
you have all kinds of big profile people, Glenn Dubin,
Bill Richardson, And these are the people who were facilitating
all of this and at the same time, according to

(07:06):
the credible allegations, partaking in the abuse themselves. So when
you look at it, there's layers, right, It's almost like
a lasagna of shit with all the different layers of
garbage that you have to get through to get to
the nexus of the problem. And that's how Epstein kept
himself insulated. It was just like any other criminal organization,

(07:28):
like any other criminal enterprise. And that's why you see
people who have been following this case for a long time,
and frankly, a lot of the survivors get so agitated
that none of the other core participants have been indicted,
because this couldn't happen right without all of these other participants.

(07:50):
And that goes for the school in Michigan interlogan. They
have to have some responsibility for what occurs on their campus.
Considering Jeffrey Epstein had a little chalet, a little cabin
on the campus. I mean, really, it's just like him
over at Harvard. Dude literally had the keys to the

(08:12):
kingdom at Harvard. And sure, we get a lot of
these crocodile tear apologies, and we get these internal investigations
and all of that jazz, but in reality, there's no
penalties for these people. They just shrugged their shoulders and
keep it moving. And if any of these people who

(08:37):
were associating with Jeffrey Epstein after his first arrest, even
attempt to act like they had no idea what he was. Well,
that's somebody that I'm pretty confident in calling a liar.
Pretty sure everybody had Google back then, right, jump on
the internet and check out Jeffrey Epstein what he was
up to. It was all over the news. But yet

(08:59):
you'll have these people who think you're stupid enough to
believe that they had no idea what Jeffrey Epstein was.
And that's the running line, right, Oh, we had no idea,
we had no clue. That's not odd that a man
with no children, no children even in his vicinity, has
all of these young looking girls around. But you know,

(09:24):
when you're a fellow traveler and all, it's probably not
out of the normal. It's probably just the way things are.
So today, like I said, the two witnesses on the
stand were Larry Vassoski and A Jane Doe. So first
we're going to talk a little bit about Larry Vasaski

(09:48):
and what he had to say on the on the
stand today. First, he was talking about the flights to
Interlogan and he was talking about some of the people
that were on some of these flights interlocan was Epstein
and Maxwell obviously, but on some of these other flights

(10:10):
he was talking about people like Bill Clinton was mentioned.
Let's see, Donald Trump was mentioned. Uh who else do
we got here? Uh, Prince Andrew, it's Zach Pearlman. It's crazy.
It is crazy to think that all of these people,

(10:33):
all of these people were on these planes and everybody
knew about it, right, But the legacy media, they couldn't
be bothered to let all of you know about it.
They were always talking about some big conspiracy theory around Epstein. Yeah, right,
This has always been a criminal conspiracy. This was never
a conspiracy theory. Now, don't get me wrong. There are

(10:55):
some wild propositions when we talk about Epstein in this case, right,
a bunch of weird theories, And I'm agnostic on all
of it, don't. I don't know what occurred for sure.
All I can go on is what we have the
evidence to go on. Right. But one thing is certain,
and I bring up these people on the plane to

(11:16):
point out what I was talking about earlier. This is
not a left or right issue, folks. This is about
the super elite, the one percent of the one percent, basically,
who look at us like we're chattel. They look at
us our children like we mean nothing. Human trafficking operations,

(11:37):
endless war, dividing the populace, and it just goes on
and on and on again. All of these people, all
of these politicians, none of them care about us. Let
me ask you a question. How many of these congressmen
are Congress Congress congressmen or congress women have been out

(11:57):
there yelling and screaming from every mountaintop about investigations into
Epstein and the handling of the Epstein case on a
federal level. Oh wait, very few of them, folks. And
the ones that have been, well, guess what. They sure
can get all of these other conferences up on the hill, right.
They whipped up the January sixth conference pretty quick. They

(12:18):
brought up a bunch of baseball players over steroids pretty quick,
and insert every other issue here. But all of a
sudden they have no interest in a case such as Epstein's. Meanwhile,
we have all of these big time players being involved, Trump, Clinton,
Prince Andrew aka the Joe Exotic of the Windsor family.

(12:38):
By the way, all of these cats and now again
besides Prince Andrew. I'm not saying that these dudes were
taking part in the trafficking operation as far as abusing
people until that comes out with some evidence to back
it up, or I hear the survivors say that right then,
of course, it's definitely something that needs to be talked

(13:01):
about in the same vein as Glenn Dubin or Bill Richardson.
But these guys were for sure enabling Jeffrey Epstein without
a doubt. It's not even an argument, and they were
probably up to more. And forget about anybody who had
any kind of financial relationship with the guy. If you
were in bed with Epstein financially, you were engaging in

(13:24):
all kinds of malfeasans financial malfeasance. This dude had accounts everywhere.
But the whole world's a playground to these people. The
metal always meanwhile us, and that means all of us
out there, folks. I don't care if you're making fourger
and fifty grand a year, eight hundred grand a year,
they look at you the same. We're the children of never.

(13:49):
They'll continue to, you know, play their game of thrones,
right and you know, let us eat cake. But finally,
I think they have went too far this time. Most
of us are willing to look the other way when
they're stealing and they're drifting. That's part of politics. We
expect it. But when you look the other way for
a human trafficking operation, and then you sit here and

(14:10):
you hear in court about two former United States presidents,
one from each side of the aisle, by the way,
having an intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein being multiple flyers
on old boys plane. If that doesn't make you sit
back and take stock of where we are as a
society and what we're doing as a voting populist, I

(14:32):
don't know what will, because from where I'm sitting, it
is all bad folks, and there's no oh, well this
one did it, or that one did it, or none
of these people are safe from the Jeffrey Epstein stink.

(14:53):
I did an episode a long time ago where I
went through OpenSecrets dot org where it lists all the
people that have donated to political campaigns and stuff, and
you'd be blown away by how many people Jeffrey Epstein
donated to throughout the years, politically speaking, a massive amount

(15:14):
of people on both sides of the aisle, by the way,
so you have to ask yourselves, what is it really
that these politicians are doing when you're hearing names like
this in court and they don't have any kind of
hearing on the hill or you know, they're not ruffling
any feathers. You guys don't have any subpoenas for anybody.

(15:36):
It is a absolute black eye on society in general,
and it just shows you that unless it's a wedge issue,
these politicians really do not care. Let's see what else
did mister Vesasky have to say today? They asked, mister

(15:59):
uh Vyssoski, are you familiar with with Prince Andrew. Vassoski
said yes. Then Christian Everdell, who is Glenn Maxwell's lawyer,
he said, and he flew on mister Epstein's plane, right,
and Vasaski said he did. So what they're trying to
do here by bringing up all of these names is
to try and say that Epstein was an upstanding citizen.

(16:22):
Nothing was going on on that plan on those planes,
he was hanging out with all of these upstanding other
members of the high society. It's the same excuse that
Alan Dershowitz tried to run, and it doesn't hold water
with me. You know why, Well, you're all fellow travelers.
I don't look at any of you as upstanding citizens

(16:43):
or pillars of the community. We have one guy who's
a reality TV star who got elected, and then Bill Clinton.
Do I really need to go into this, this moron,
I mean, really, this is the best we can do.
So you know, you have this this whole wild situation
where he's trying to Everdell, by the way I hear,

(17:06):
is trying to set it up where the excuse is, well,
all of these other people were on the plane, so
it's cool, right, no big deal, because all of these
people are pillars of the community, according to Christian Everdell. Meanwhile,
anyone who's followed this case knows that everybody he's brought
up in that sentence is somebody who has been accused

(17:27):
of taking part in the trafficking ring in one way
or the other. Bill Clinton, as far as enabling, and
Prince Andrew a lot more devious and a lot worse.
So forgive me if I don't look at those people
as credible witnesses to the cause. Here, he says, he

(17:51):
also flew mister Epstein to Columbus to see Les Wexner,
which is interesting. He goes on to say, on your
flights to Interlogan, it'sach Pearlman on one. Vasoski says, yes
he was. And Epstein had a cabin there, right, Vasoski says, yes,
and he means the cabin at Interlogan what like I

(18:11):
was just talking about earlier, like I referenced. So he
had this cabin there because he was, you know, this
big donor. And you know, you get when you have
when you have a bunch of cheddar, you have a
lot more opportunities that spring up around you, you know,
like most of us no chance, right, But people like
Epstein somehow he trips over falls in a pile of

(18:33):
shit and comes out smelling like roses. So Epstein had
all the money in the world, and he was able to,
you know, donate money to these universities and in turn
get access to these universities. And in this case, not
a university, right, this is more there's a high school.
This is a you know, a school for the talented

(18:55):
the gifted. But that was Epstein's m We saw him
do it in Harvard, we saw him do it at MIT,
we saw him do it everywhere he went it was
always about spreading that dough around so that he'd have
access to these campuses, to the scientists, and to the
whole entire situation. So that's pretty much the gist of

(19:21):
it for the Vesosky end, nothing too crazy. Besides him
talking about the Trump Clinton and some of the other
people that were on the plane. They also asked, did

(19:43):
you ever see Epstein engaging in sex acts with underage girls?
He probably If mister Epstein were engaging in sex acts
with underage girls, he probably would have told you not
to leave the cockpit, correct. So that was after a
line of questioning where they asked him if he was
able to leave the gulf stream to use the restroom,
which is kind of ridiculous, right, I mean to think

(20:07):
that Epstein wouldn't be able to maneuver around all of
that is crazy. And how many times would mister Vassosky
have to get up to use the restroom on one
of these flights, I don't know, just a question I'm asking.
So just because he has access to the cabin doesn't
mean he actually has access to the cabin, if you

(20:27):
get my drift. But it looks like that's you know,
with the whole situation with Vasaski here. What they were
trying to establish is that Epstein did have all of
these people on these planes. These girls were on these planes.
And you know, even though Vasaski says that he didn't

(20:49):
see anyone that he thought was young, I find that
very hard to believe. But I guess that's objectional, right.
You can't really say one way or the other what
he saw or didn't in as far as age of
the girls, but it's it's pretty obvious when there's a
young woman. One other exchange between Vasaski and the prosecutors

(21:18):
was pretty interesting to me as well. Everdell said, and
Glaine seemed like a nice person to you, did she not?
Vassoski said she did. Everdell goes on to say, and
you have two daughters, and you let them ride horses
with Glaine, right, Vassosky says, I did so. Again, what
they're trying to do is build credibility here to say
that Glene Maxwell is a good person, so good in fact,

(21:41):
that mister Vassosky would let his daughters ride horses with her. Christian.
Everdell goes on to say, you saw nothing in thirty
years that made you think mister Epstein was an abuser, right,
Vassoski says, I did not. Now, look with VASASKI, I
don't really trust the guy to be honest with you.

(22:02):
He was in Epstein's employee for a very long time
after the first arrest. He never came out and said anything,
kept quiet, and it took this whole entire proceeding to
even get him to say anything. So I'm not very
confident in mister Vassoski here to be honest with you,
giving us the real story. He goes on to say,

(22:22):
Everdell goes nothing further, and then Judge Nathan orders the
redirect where Maureen Komi says, did you let your fourteen
year old daughter massage mister Epstein. Vessoski says, I did not,
And they finish it out with nothing further and we
call our next witness, Jane. So that was the Vassosky exchange,

(22:46):
and it was pretty interesting at the end there when
Komy drops the bomb of well did you let your
daughter's massage Jeffrey Epstein, and I thought that was one
of the biggest points the exchange as far as the
whole entire cross examination or questioning procedure of the day.

(23:08):
All right, so let's dig into some of this testimony
from Jane, Comy says, how old were you when you
first had sexual contact with Jeffrey Epstein? In response, Jane
says fourteen? Who was in the room with you? Asks Comy.
The response from Jane Glen Maxwell. Comy says, do you

(23:29):
see her here? Jane says yes, there in sort of
a beige turtleneck. Comy goes on to tell the court
that she has identified the defendant. Um. She goes on
to ask Comy what type of work did your father do?
Jane says, he was a musical composer. Then he died
of leukemia. His employer had canceled his health insurance without

(23:53):
him knowing. We essentially went bankrupt and had to move out.
So that it's the typical move of Epstein, right, looks
for somebody who is in a vulnerable position and then
dives in to try and you know, act like he's
going to save the day, but in reality, what he's

(24:15):
going to do is crush those dreams, the dreams and
hopes of the girls under his heel. And that was
his moo with all of these girls from you know,
broken homes or girls going through struggles. Girls they'll have
parents around, drugs, whatever it might be. This is what
they zeroed in on. They go on to ask her.

(24:38):
The prosecutor goes on to ask her, when you were
at Interloken, did you meet a couple. Jane replies yes,
the woman had a dog and the man said they
were big benefactors. They asked for my mother's phone a landline.
So remember this is back in the day when there
was no cell phones yet, so you're still using landlines
and all of that jazz. So Epstein and Maxwell asked

(24:59):
for the landline number at our house. So Comy goes
on to ask when you visited, what do you remember
about spending time at the pool? Jane says, there were
four women in Galaine, all topless and some of them
were naked. I was shocked. I hadn't seen that before.
Maxwell would ask me if I had boyfriends. Now, remember

(25:21):
this is a fourteen year old girl. So what they
do in situations like this, people like Epstein, they normalize
this behavior for their target, for the one that they're grooming.
They bring them around and these young girls see these
other women who might seem educated or you know, hip
whatever it might be, running around like this, participating in

(25:43):
these activities. And to the girl who has never been
around this stuff before, never been exposed to the upper
crust of society, she saying to herself, well, I guess
this is normal, and that's how the grooming process really begins, right,
you start to normalize this disgusting behavior. And we see
it with Epstein over and over and over again, and

(26:06):
we certainly see as Jane is telling us Mary reading
to fifty thousand dollars. She also asked, did Epstein begin
to pay for things for you? And Jane said, voice lessons,
close things for school. The prosecutor says, did Maxwell give
you some advice? Jane replies that if you f them,

(26:28):
you can always f them. They're sort of grandfathered in.
I didn't know what it meant, so Maxwell trying to
hip her to the game. Right. Once you start doing that,
then you know you're all set. You got them locked in.
And really at the nexus of all of this for
Maxwell and Epstein was their honeytrap. You know, they were

(26:50):
trying to build dossier's on people. This goes so much
deeper than just your typical human trafficking ring. And hopefully
it's going to delve into that a little more here
at the trial, but I doubt it. So I'll have
a bunch of episodes that will fill in context. Comey

(27:13):
goes on to ask, what did they tell you about
their social circle? Jane says, Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Mike Wallace.
So two top level politicians right off the bat, two scuzbags,
and then Mike Wallace, another member of the esteemed legacy media.
How many people in the legacy media have to be

(27:33):
brought up? And then you got Mike Wallace here and
his son Chris Wallace running around yelling at people from
their ivory towers. Talk about hypocritical. But Epstein had a
lot of buddies in the media, a lot of friends
in the legacy media, guys like George Stepanopolis, Katie Kurk.
These are all people that have been to Jeffrey Epstein's house.

(27:57):
She goes on to say, how is the house decorated?
Jane says, art sculptures, pictures of famous people, presidents. I
thought some of the art was odd, naked women, creepy animals,
and that was one of the mos of Jeffrey Epstein
and his decorating when you look into Jeffrey Epstein's story,
they talk about that at his places real weirdly decorated,

(28:22):
a lot of odd stuff. Jane says, Epstein took me
into the poolhouse. He proceeded, oh man, this is trigger
warning here, folks, is a little graphic. Then he went
he proceeded to masturbate on me. Then he went into
the bathroom and cleaned himself and acted like nothing happened.

(28:42):
I'd never seen that before. Comy goes on to say,
did you keep spending time with them? Jane says, yes,
Now again, this is part of the grooming process, making
this normal, normalizing this behavior, and that's that's how they
do it. And Maxwell and Epstein were professionals, according to

(29:03):
the survivors, according to the girls who have made these allegations.
Jane goes on to say, Jeffrey proceeded to masturbate again.
Glaine was rubbing on him, kissing on him. How old
were you fourteen? She says, So they're trying to have

(29:24):
their little tryst here with this fourteen year old girl.
And that's why when Maxwell makes the assertions that she
has no idea the scope of Epstein's crimes or what
Epstein was up to It's laughable to anybody who has
read the court documents, when you just read the depositions
and you read some of the lawsuits that have been
filed against her, it's laughable, honestly that she would act

(29:49):
like she didn't know the scope of what went on here.
And when you hear it like this and you see
a little girl in court talking. I know a woman now,
but you think about a little girl fourteen years old
going through this, and it's just mind blowing. She says,
what was miss Maxwell's demeanor? Like she was very casual,

(30:11):
Like this was entirely normal. I was confused when you
were fourteen, you have no idea what is going on? Prosecutor,
Did Jeffrey Epstein touch you Jane? Yes? Everywhere? So talk
about creep factor increasing. Jeffrey Epstein was gross to begin with,

(30:32):
and imagine being one of these survivors, one of these
little girls who has to touch this disgusting man with
Glene Maxwell there egging it on and participating according to
these allegations. Talk about PTSD. The prosecutor says, did you
touch mister Epstein, Jane? After a pause, everywhere, the prosecutor says,

(30:57):
again trigger warning folks for some of you out there
who you know this might not be comfortable with. I'm
sorry to ask you this, but did he use sex toys?
Jane yes, like those back massagers. They were painful. He
did it anyway, Assistant attorney, I mean the prosecutor. Did
Maxwell touch your body? Jane yes? So again she just look,

(31:21):
I don't want to underpin that, right. I don't want
to underplay that either, because it's a big deal in
open court. Maxwell was just accused of partaking in the abuse.
So when you read an article and they call her
a socialite, how about accused child abuser? How about accused
child sex trafficker? How about accused scumbag? Anything but socialite?

(31:52):
The questioning goes on from the prosecutor. How often did
these things happen? Jane says, every time I visited. I
went to visit his house. Prosecutor, did you travel to
his other homes? Jane? Yes? Then they uh, she says,
Comy says, we'll be we'll be back to that in
a bit. When other people were present, how did incidents start?

(32:14):
Jane says. Jeffrey would say, follow him, prosecutor, follow him
where Jane replies, to his bedroom or to the massage room.
He would get on the massage table and it would
sort of turn into this orgy. Prosecutor, how often was
Maxwell present, Jane, I can't give a precise number, so

(32:36):
obviously more than once according to this accuser. Now that
doesn't jive with what Maxwell has to say, right, But
as we've seen so far, I really don't have the
faith in somebody who's being charged with perjury counts as
somebody was lied throughout this whole thing, to be honest. Now,

(32:56):
so I don't think that this young lady is lying
this right, And for Maxwell and her team already, you
were on day two and you could see why the
game of loopholes and technicalities were in such a big
way for Maxwell and their defense to start it all out.

(33:16):
They never wanted to get to this point, like we've discussed.
They knew once they got to court it was going
to be bad news for them. The prosecutor goes on,
during the incident, when you were fourteen, was Maxwell in
the room? Jane replies, yes, prosecutor, when you were fourteen,
fifteen and sixteen. How many times did you travel with them?

(33:40):
Jane replies about ten times to New York City and
New Mexico on Jeffrey's plane. You know, again, it's wild
to me that Zoro Ranch is not raided, not that
it'll do any good now right rating it now means nothing.
All of these places have to be hit at the
same time. If you're going to raid a criminal enterprise
or else, people will get rid of evadence. You know,

(34:01):
I'm not inspector gadget or anything, but you can't hit
these places one out of time. So Zorol Ranch. I
know a lot of new listeners are listening out there
has never been rated. What kind of artwork did they have? Jane, Yes,
it was weird animal heads, naked women, orgies. It didn't

(34:24):
seem very unusual at this point. Prosecutor, How did you
feel in the New York house, Jane, like someone was
always watching you. That's significant as well, because remember we
heard Larry Vesoski talking about how he did audio work
for Epstein blah blah blah, and we've heard several other
people come out and say they've installed audio video at
Epstein's properties. Package that with what we've heard from the survivors,

(34:48):
Maria Farmer, Virginia and some others talking about how everything
was wired up for Epstein to record everything and watch everything,
and it all really comes into a perspect doesn't it.
I've talked about this like building a puzzle from the
very beginning, and we started with the corner pieces, and
now we're getting a lot more clarity as things start

(35:10):
to come undone. What would Epstein ask you to do again?
Trigger warning, gross stuff coming in Jane to straddle his face,
to pinch his nipples. Prosecutor, were there are times that
Maxwell was present? Jane, yes, Prosecutor. In the New York House,

(35:34):
Where did this happen? Jane, in the massage room. So
we've heard about the massage room, and also massage was
code word in Epstein's world for sex. Oh, let's go
get a massage. Using air quotes, you know, like there
were frat boys hanging out at the frat house on
the trip to New Mexico. Where did you spend most

(35:56):
of your time, Jane on the ranch. It was in
the mids of nowhere. Prosecutor. Did anyone come into your room? Jane? Yes.
Someone came in and said, Jeffrey wants to see you
and escorted me to see him. Now, the ranch is
in a desolate location. It's in Stanley, New Mexico, like
forty something miles outside of Santa Fe. It's in the

(36:19):
high desert and during the winter it is absolutely freezing
cold there. I was out there in February of twenty
twenty and it was quite an eye opening experience. The
place is desolate as hell, and there are no neighbors really, folks, right,
So if you're a girl out on this property, even

(36:40):
if you want to get away or leave, you have
no shot unless you if it's in the winter, especially
summer too. I mean it's hot as hell in the summer,
but in the winter there's a lot of snow and
the terrain is very unforgiving. So it's a desolate place.
And Epstein chose New Mexico for a reason, several of

(37:02):
them in fact, and the desolation and having nobody around
to stick their nose in his business certainly one of
the top reasons. And this is horrible. When I was
reading this earlier, I can only imagine, I mean, this,
poor lady, Jane sobbing, I did not want to go
see him. Prosecutor, who told you Epstein wanted to see you? Jane?

(37:24):
I don't know I had to fly back to Florida
to go to school. I took a commercial flight, but
I was only fifteen and didn't even have as drivers permit.
Jane continues, so I couldn't get on the flight back
to Florida, having no idea. I freaked out, but Maxwell
helped solve it. She talked to someone and I got
on the plane. Oh it must be nice. Huh. Let

(37:45):
me just make a phone call over to somebody and
get you back on the plane. Wild must be nice
to have all these connections, must be nice to hang
out with ex presidents, princes and other assorted scumbags. What
was your home life like at the time, Jane replies,

(38:07):
We were losing our home. We moved into a pool house.
Jane goes on to say my mom was enamored by
the idea that these affluent people were taking an interest
in me. Maxwell's lawyer objects at this point under a hearsay,
prosecutor goes on to say, it's for the effect of
the listener. Judge Nathan says, you may ask that question,

(38:29):
but not what the mother said. So they have an
approach blah blah blah, and they discuss what was what
they can and can't say at a sidebar real quick.
They get back and the prosecutor goes on to say,
what did your mother say? Jane says that I should
be grateful for their attention. Imagine that's what your mother says. Man.

(38:53):
I can't these girls, these survivors, They've had a real,
real hard road, folks, from the abuse actually happening, to
nobody helping them, to having their names dragged through the
media by a jerk off legacy media, to now having
to relive all of this again as this trial gets

(39:13):
under away and still nobody's in prison over this. By
the way, let's be very clear, did you tell your
siblings about the abuse? Jane says no, I was ashamed
and I had a manic depressed mother who didn't know
how to cope. It seemed hopeless. She goes on to say,

(39:35):
I spoke to my school guidance counselor, who then called
my mother. My mother told me, you don't talk about
what happens at home and embarrass us. Unfortunately, that's the
way it goes in a lot of homes, right, very private,
you know, don't talk about things outside of the home, etc. Etc.
But in situations like this. I mean, imagine how hopeless

(39:57):
it must be nowhere to turn. You can't tell your mom,
your sibl, you don't feel like anyone will believe you.
It's just I can't even imagine walking a day in
her shoes or the shoes of any of these survivors.
In fact, the prosecutor goes on to say, Jane, what
kind of work, what kinds of work do you do now?

(40:20):
Jane says, I'm still an actor. I got work in
LA but I didn't know how to trust, how to reciprocate.
She goes on to say, when did you stop being
in touch with Jeffrey Epstein? Jane replies, in two thousand
and two, I fell in love with somebody. But Epstein
kept calling her and saying you wanted to see her,
and that he needed to be that she needed to
be grateful to him, and that her mother was living

(40:41):
in one of his apartments. Do you want me to continue,
The prosecutor says, was that the last time? Jane says yes.
So Epstein stopped calling her or kept trying to call her,
and after she said to him that she had a
boyfriend and was turning down his advances, seemed to be

(41:04):
that it ended up that was the last time she
was seeing him, right last time she had any contact
with him. The prosecutor goes on to say, later, did
you tell the man i'll call Matt about Epstein. Jane says, yes,
not in detail, but I did. By then, you saw
Epstein on the TV all the time he had been arrested.

(41:26):
Did the FBI interview you in September twenty nineteen, the
prosecutor said. Jane responds with yes. Now remember the name
Matt because it's significant for what's coming up tomorrow. She
goes on to say, did you sue Glenne Maxwell. Jane
responds yes, and the Epstein's Victim Fund. Jane says yes,

(41:48):
they awarded her five million dollars and she got approximately
two point nine million of that. Still not enough, I've
said her from the beginning, they should back the brink
struck up when it comes to these girls. So it
goes on with more questioning, and then of course you
have the cross examination by Glenn Maxwell's team, and they're

(42:12):
going after her as far as her credibility, asking her
why did it take you, for instance, and you had
two personal injury attorneys with you, mister Glaxman and mister Workman.
After it took her twenty years to complain. So a
manager says, two full decades before your report to the police.
By then mister Epstein was dead, correct, And then manager

(42:34):
goes on to say, in the twenty years, you spoke
to several people close to you, to the person we're
referring to as Matt your sister Camilla. Whereas there was
an objection by the prosecution. But this is interesting because
what she's trying to say is, well, you didn't tell
anybody right away, so how did this really happen? Can
we really believe you? Meanwhile, anyone who follows cases like

(42:58):
this understands repressed memory. So that's the basic line of
questioning for Menager and Maxwell's legal team. And it's exactly
what we thought it would be. We thought it would
be going after her credibility, we thought it would be
going after who she is, and that's exactly what we

(43:21):
saw here today. So that was nothing out of the ordinary.
For sure, it was expected, at least by me. Now,
I don't think it's a winning strategy, however, so we'll
have to see. But that is pretty much where we're
at today. Folks, the two witnesses that were on the stand,
a basic gist of about what the back and forth
was about, and caught up for the night. So obviously

(43:46):
I will be back tomorrow morning, same time. Early in
the morning, we'll get an idea of what the lay
of the land is, take a look at some of
the headlines, and I'll do the same thing I did today,
sit around and follow the thread over at Inner City Press.
If you're on Twitter, you definitely need to check them
out and give them a follow because they're doing really

(44:07):
good coverage here on the case and that's where I'm
able to get these quotes from. So we'll do the
same thing tomorrow. I'll go through it again. I'll notate
some stuff that I find important, and we'll go through it.
So I appreciate everybody joining me for another evening, and
I hope that all of you have a great night.
If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's bo bby

(44:32):
c ap you Cci at ProtonMail dot com. You can
also find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore c ap
u Cci. Mary redeemed it up, everyone, and welcome to
the Epstein Chronicles. Yesterday mark day one of the Gallain

(44:52):
Maxwell trial, and I have to tell you I was
caught a bit off guard. I was expecting Larry big
Dog Vasasky to be put on the stand right away
like that. I figured there would be some opening statements
from both sides and then we'd get into the meat
and the potatoes, a little bit of the meat on

(45:14):
the bone in the coming days. But they got right
to it yesterday. And Larry Vassoski is a major cog
within the Epstein realm. He was Epstein's pilot. He was
flying all of these people all over the world, and obviously,

(45:34):
according to him, he'll tell you that he didn't know
who was on all of those flights, especially the domestic ones.
But you have to think that the government believes that
he has something to add if they're calling him as
their first witness. And it also makes me wonder if
he cuts some kind of deal with the government. Now, again,

(45:59):
there's zero evidence that Larry Vasosky was ever going to
be indicted or anything like that, but it's pretty interesting
that he's working with the government here. I mean, we're
talking about a guy that Jeffrey Epstein gave a plot
of land to right over there in his own ranch
down in Stanley, And when I went down there to

(46:21):
New Mexico, it is almost hard to explain just how
vast this property is and just how desolate this property is.
Jeffrey Epstein set up a nice little home away from
home down there at Zoro Ranch, and the things he

(46:42):
was doing down there were very secretive, right, It wasn't
something that was well publicized. There was a reason he
chose that spot in New Mexico. I mean, obviously one
of the reasons is the age of consent there, but
there were other reasons why Jeffrey Epstein chose New Mexican
go And the fact that he was able to get

(47:06):
away with the things he was able to get away
with in New Mexico is just mind boggling to me.
But the point is, you don't give somebody a big
fat chunk of land in a place that you're hoping
to keep relatively private or at the very least under
a shroud of secrecy, a piece of land there if

(47:26):
you don't trust them. So my question is what enticed
him to offer up information for the government. Now, again,
I don't have any lead saying that he had a
profit agreement or he was in any jeopardy of being indicted.
But I just find it interesting that he is talking

(47:47):
with the government now, and not only just talking with
the government obviously, but taking the stand as a government witness.
Usually that kind of thing doesn't just happen organically, right
The government is you know, they find ways to get
people to do what they want them to do. Especially
if you have something that might be criminal hanging over

(48:09):
your head, they will definitely leverage that, they'll use it
in their favor, and they'll get you moving in a
direction that they want you to move in. So the
Larry Vosasky on the stand, it's definitely very interesting. But
as I ruminated on it last night and I let
it marinate, I had some more questions, right, like did

(48:31):
he get a profer agreement, is he working with the
government because he doesn't want to be charged himself, or
did they just turn him as a witness. So it's
going to be very interesting to see all of the details, right,
all of the specifics as we move forward, and with
something like this a trial, a case with just so

(48:54):
much information, it's going to be very fluid. Things are
going to happen quickly, and things are going to happen
on a daily basis. Every single time that you have
this Jerry impaneled and the trial going on, you're going
to have, you know, significant things coming out of those sessions.

(49:15):
So getting right off to a jump with Larry Vassoski
as a witness number one, it just tells me that
there's going to be some more surprises coming down the
old shoot here. And I'm very curious to see who
else the government offers up as witnesses. And on the

(49:35):
flip side of that, I'm wondering who the defense is
gonna pony up as a witness. Besides, they're paid for specialists.
Are they going to have anyone show up and you know,
Polish Glane Maxwell's reputation. Is anyone going to step into
that box and say, hey, look, Glan Maxwell's a good person.

(49:58):
She didn't do this and I think that she's innocent. Now,
I haven't heard that they're gonna have anybody up there
to do that, but you would think, right if you're
the defense, one thing you want to do is try
to establish that your client has you know, as a
person of character, is somebody who this is below and
somebody who would never engage in behavior like this. And

(50:21):
if your client is somebody like that, it stands to
reason that you'd be able to find a few people
that are willing to, you know, go on the record
and testify that she's a good person or that she's
somebody of upstanding character. So I'm interested to see what
sort of trick the Maxwell team pulls out of their

(50:43):
hat when it comes to establishing her as a credible
person or somebody who should be believed, because you know
that the prosecution is they're coming hard. Obviously, if Vesoski's
the first witness, you got to think that there's gonna
be a litany of people trotting up to that box

(51:04):
that have damning statements about Glene Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein
and the way they were conducting themselves. And who better
situated than the guy that was flying them all around
the world. Now, last night I updated and I uploaded
an episode about the other pilot that was brought up

(51:25):
at this Chriald David Rodgers, you might want to check
that out as well. But with Larry Vasoski taking the
stand here, it's pretty significant for those of us who
have been following the case especially. I was talking with
some of my colleagues who follow the case yesterday and
it was pretty much unanimous consensus that, you know, this

(51:47):
is probably going to lead us to even more explosive
witnesses hitting that stand. So I'm very interested to see
where things go today, and I'm interested to see what
sort of strategy the defense is going to use when
it comes to cross examining Larry Vasaski. We can definitely

(52:10):
expect more of Asaski today and you know, we'll see
what comes of it. But I think it's very, very
interesting that he was the first witness, and I think
it's going to be interesting to see how it all
breaks down from here. So today, what we're going to
do is we're going to take a look at some

(52:31):
of the headlines from overnight and yeah, to take a
look at what's going on. We have a headline over
here from Slate and this is an article that was
published by Seth Stevenson. On the headline, Glenn Maxwell's trial
opens with her lawyer diving straight into the muck and

(52:54):
he goes into what's going on like outside of the
courthouse and all of that jazz from the article outside
the Thirdgood Marshall Federal Courthouse in Lower Manhattan this morning,
the media throng assembled to cover day one of the
Glene Maxwell trial. Print reporters, newsletter writers, podcasters, and television
crews coalesced into the strangely glamorous frenzy that seems to

(53:16):
accompany the launch of every high profile criminal proceeding. Now.
The reason I bring this headline up is I talk
a lot about how it's Carnival Barker City right now,
and you're definitely seeing it out in front of the courthouse.
There are people of all stripes showing up and making

(53:37):
their voices heard, and you know, you have a lot
of misinformed people as well. But one thing is very
apparent to me, and it is that there is a
lot of anger on both sides of the political fence,
and it's not very often that you see that now.

(53:58):
Of course, there are the yahoos that are using this
as a political cudgel to beat their political opponents over
the head. And I'd be very cautious of any of
these pundits that are talking about this case from either
side of the conversation. I'd be very cautious about what
sort of rhetoric they're spinning towards you, because this is

(54:21):
much bigger than that. This is so much bigger than
Republican and Democrat, This is so much bigger than left
and right. You have to understand that this was people
at all levers of power from both parties who were
enabling this and facilitating this for decades. So to try

(54:44):
and pin it on one party or the other is
a great disservice to those who were actually abused by
this scumbag. So while the circus like atmosphere is to
be expected, I think that it is one of the
most gross ways to go about things when you're using
this as a political cudgel. Now, of course there's a
political angle to it, right, Definitely. A lot of the

(55:06):
people involved had ties to politicians or were politicians themselves.
But it's very apparent when someone's trying to harness this
as a political weapon, and I would just caution you
to be very very aware of that. He goes on

(55:26):
to say, I've seen it before. It always starts this way.
It no matter the trial, when it comes to a
high profile one, it's always going to have a cast
of characters, right, So I just it's one of those
things where I just I witness and I observe and
shake my head. You know you have like like he

(55:49):
says here. When Michael Jackson's trial for child sexual abuse
charges was getting underway, the media revved up to cover
the bizarre tale of an eccentric global superstar. And then
the trial began and we met a dim, lonely drunk
who liked to show porno maags to little boys. So
I guess what he's trying to say here in this

(56:10):
article is the perception of what a trial is going
to be and then the reality of it are usually
two very very different things, and I think we'll see
a lot of that in this case as well. There
are a lot of misinformed people when it comes to
the Jeffrey Epstein case, the Glan Maxwell trial and all
of the players on the stage, and hopefully when we're

(56:34):
done here on the podcast, we can try and clear
a little bit of that up. And my suggestion would
be to all of you out there who are new
to this case, who have just found the Glan Maxwell
trial or have just gotten interested in this, I would
suggest that you go on to social media and you
seek out some of the survivors from this case and

(56:56):
follow them on social media and listen to them in
their own words. That way, there's no background noise, there's
no middleman. And one thing that these survivors did that
was pretty much groundbreaking was they skipped the legacy media
and they went directly to social media, to independent content

(57:18):
creators and independent journalists to get the story out. And
once there was such a swell from all of you
people out there who have been following this case, they
were forced to act right. And it's been pretty crazy
to watch it all unfold because it has been time

(57:41):
and time again where not only were these girls women
victimized by Jeffrey Epstein and allegedly Maxwell, but by our
very own justice system, by the people who were put
in place to make sure that the most vulnerable amongst
us are protected. Those very people failed these girls. And

(58:06):
you heard it yesterday in the trial, and it's something
I've been punching home for a long time. Here. They
chose girls from broken homes, girls who come from low
income families, girls who don't have as many prospects on
the horizon, and they specifically search these kinds of girls out,

(58:26):
and that just makes it even more draconianto me as
if it's not hard enough being broke, being poor, coming
from a broken home, now you have this multi hundred
million dollar predator and his co associate, his underboss bringing

(58:47):
you in to groom you and molest you. And it's
absolutely horrendous to think about. And the fact that they
preyed on the most vulnerable amongst us, it just makes
me so mad. I really dislike bullies, and I really
like people who punched down. I really dislike people who
punched down. And Jeffrey Epstein was all of that, and

(59:09):
Glane Maxwell, she went right along with it. She was
right there making decisions with them and helping him facilitate
all of this, according to multiple multiple survivors. He goes
on to say that he suspects that the trial of
Glenn Maxwell, who stands accused of helping Jeffrey Epstein sexually

(59:31):
abuse minors, will follow a sim similar arc to those
other trials, meaning you know, the whole entire circus, atmosphere, etc. Etc.
He says the media has revved itself up to cover
the story of a stylish, jet setting socialite who broke
fantastically bad, but over the coming long courtroom days chances
are will hear less about how she graduated from Oxford,

(59:53):
speaks several languages and can pilot helicopters, and more about
how she allegedly took teenage girls on Florida shopping mall
excursions as a means of prepping them form a less station. Yeah. Well,
anyone who's showing up here thinking that Glaine Maxwell is
just some you know, shrinking violet socialite, you're in for

(01:00:14):
a rude awakening, because that is not the case. Glaine
Maxwell is not that. Okay, she knew exactly what she
was getting into. Well educated lady, comes from money, comes
from power, and to think that she was just along
for the ride is absolutely ridiculous. And you know, again,

(01:00:39):
when we talk about the overall atmosphere around this trial,
oh there's gonna be some wildness, there's no doubt about it.
And there's going to be a ton of carnival barkers
and a ton of disinformation agents. But one thing that
is going to be constant, one thing that you can

(01:01:00):
guarantee is the profile that's going to be painted of
Glenn Maxwell is going to be less than flattering by
the prosecution. And not only that, but those assertions. Well,
they're going to be backed up by evidence and the
statements from the survivors themselves. So it's going to be

(01:01:27):
a very very interesting few weeks to see which way
Maxwell's team goes with all of this. Now, we already
know that their strategy so far has been to come
out and blame the girls basically right saying that you know,

(01:01:47):
Maxwell was just someone who was around for Epstein's run.
She didn't have anything to do with it. And you
know the girls are liars, they're really above the age
of consent. So well, you know how it goes. This
is the typical defense when you see a case like this.
You know, they try and impune the reputation of the accusers.

(01:02:12):
They try and set them up as if they're money
hungry or they're prostitutes or whatever it may be. But
it's the age that they've been doing this forever. It's
like when you're in the NFL and you fire your
coach and you think it's a good idea to bring
in Wade Wilson Again, Bro, why are you bringing in
the same guy with the same playbook. And that's what

(01:02:34):
the Maxwell team is doing here. And I've been pretty
steadfast in my opinion that it's not going to work out.
You're not gonna paint Maxwell's escapegoat. She's not a stand
in for Epstein's crimes, none of that, And I really
hope that the prosecution punches that at home now. Again,
not very confident in the prosecution in America. The prosecutors

(01:02:59):
in America. When they're going after high profile people. Oh sure,
when the federal authorities are going after you or me,
it's a home run for them, right slam Dunk City.
But when they're going after their own friends, the other
members of so called elite society, terry usually turns out
a little bit different, doesn't it. But hopefully there's enough

(01:03:22):
interest and enough anger around this case that they can't
pull any of those nonsensical moves that they usually like
to pull. So I hope that the prosecution continues to
beat home the fact that Glen Maxwell was not a
passenger on this ship. She wasn't just somebody who was

(01:03:44):
stowing away. She was in fact piloting the ship. Sometimes
she was in the navigation room. She knew how the
engine worked, and she certainly most certainly knew what was
going on and for her to set it up as

(01:04:05):
if she had no idea what was going on. You
know that she was just completely taken off off guard
by what happened here is just an absolute ridiculous leap
that they're asking people to take, and I honestly doubt
anyone's going to be willing to take that leap. So

(01:04:26):
there you have it, folks for the morning. Now, trial's
getting ready or is back underway as we speak. It's
six am here in Las Vegas as this episode's about
to be dropped, So we got a whole day ahead
of us. We're gonna keep an eye on things. I'm
pretty much locked into the studio watching the live streams

(01:04:48):
happen with the updates, live updates, not phone or you know,
digital or anything like that. But there's a lot of
live threads on like Twitter from Inner City Press. Adam
Klasfeld has a real good live feed that he's been doing,
So I'll be following those all day and preparing to
come back tonight and do a wrap up show and

(01:05:08):
talk about what occurred throughout the day and the trial
and what if any surprises or curveballs were thrown our way.
If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's b O
b B Y c ap you c CI at ProtonMail

(01:05:29):
dot com. You can also find me on Twitter at
Bobby Underscore c A p U C c I. The
links that we discussed can be found in the description box.