November 23, 2025 • 25 mins
In her deposition in the defamation lawsuit filed by Virginia Giuffre against Ghislaine Maxwell, Johanna Sjoberg described being recruited to work for Jeffrey Epstein under the impression that it was a legitimate job opportunity. According to her testimony, she was initially hired to help with office work but was soon asked to give massages to Epstein—something she testified quickly evolved into inappropriate and unwanted conduct. Sjoberg stated that Ghislaine Maxwell played a central role in managing the household and was often present during these encounters, contributing to the atmosphere of control and pressure. Her deposition supported claims made by Giuffre and other women who alleged they were misled into situations where they were exploited.
Sjoberg also testified about interactions with well-known individuals while in Epstein’s company, including an allegation involving Prince Andrew, which she said took place at Epstein’s residence. She described an incident in which Maxwell, Epstein, and others were present during a moment she considered inappropriate and unsettling. While the full extent of those interactions remains the subject of legal scrutiny and public interest, Sjoberg’s deposition contributed to the broader pattern of allegations suggesting a tightly controlled environment where young women were manipulated under false pretenses. Her account was one of several that added weight to the claims being investigated in both civil and criminal proceedings surrounding Epstein and Maxwell.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Sjoberg also testified about interactions with well-known individuals while in Epstein’s company, including an allegation involving Prince Andrew, which she said took place at Epstein’s residence. She described an incident in which Maxwell, Epstein, and others were present during a moment she considered inappropriate and unsettling. While the full extent of those interactions remains the subject of legal scrutiny and public interest, Sjoberg’s deposition contributed to the broader pattern of allegations suggesting a tightly controlled environment where young women were manipulated under false pretenses. Her account was one of several that added weight to the claims being investigated in both civil and criminal proceedings surrounding Epstein and Maxwell.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's get
right back to it, shall we. McCauley, did you ever
hear or observe Jeffrey talking on the phone about Frederick Fokai? Answer? Yes,
(00:21):
manager objection leading McCauley. What did you hear? Answer? I
heard him call someone and say, for Kai is in Hawaii,
can we find some girls for him? McCauley. And what
was your reaction to that? Answer? Well, I was massaging
and I didn't have a reaction. I tried to remain
reaction lists the whole five years. McCauley. Did Jeffrey ever
(00:42):
take you shopping? Answer? Yes, McCauley. Can you describe for
me what happened? Answer? Sure, he took me to Victoria's Secret,
Of course he did. I believe he picked out everything
and went into the room with me, the fitting room,
which was very odd. McCauley. Did he make any comments
about being in the fitting room with you? Answer? He
(01:03):
joked that one time he was in there with another
girl and she said something like dad. But that's all,
I recall, McCauley, did Jeffrey ever talk to you? Let
me back up a moment. Have you ever been propositioned
by anyone to have a baby for someone? Answer yes, McCauley.
And who propositioned you, McCauley, Jeffrey asked me. McCauley. Did
(01:24):
he ask you more than once? Answer yes, McCauley. And
what did he say? Answer? Basically just said I want
you to be the mother of my baby. McCauley. And
do you recall your response to that answer? I don't
believe that. I said flat out no. I didn't agree
to it. I wouldn't just say oh yeah, really okay, McCauley.
(01:44):
Did you ever bring other girls over? As Maxwell requested?
Manager objection leading hearsay form Joanna one time, McCauley. Let
me back up for a minute, just to make it
a clean question. Did you ever bring friends over to massage? Jeffrey?
Answer no, McCauley. And why did you not bring friends
(02:06):
over to massage? Jeffrey answer? I was living in secret
about what I was doing during the massages, and I
did not want my friends to be to know what
I was doing, so I did not want anyone else
coming into that, McCauley, was Bill Clinton a friend of
Jeffrey Epstein's manager? Objection foundation McCauley, let me back up.
(02:28):
Do you know if Bill Clinton was a friend of
Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I knew he had dealings with Bill Clinton.
I did not know that there were friends until I
read the Vanity Fair article about them going to Africa together. McCauley,
did Jeffrey ever talk to you about Bill Clinton? Answer?
He said one time that Clinton likes them young, referring
to girls. McCauley, did you ever do you recall ever
(02:51):
taking a trip to Jeffrey Epstein's home in New Mexico?
Answer yes, McCauley. And do you recall who went with
you on that trip? Answer? Sarah Kellen was there, Glaine
was there. That's all I recall. McCauley. Do you recall
where you went or why you went on the trip
to New Mexico? Answer to work McCauley. Did you perform
(03:11):
massages on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley. Did you do
you recall whether you perform massages with Sarah Kellen on
that trip? Answer no. McCauley. Do you recall in the
New Mexico home ever observing nude photos of females there?
Answer I don't recall. McCauley. When you would provide massages,
would you provide those massages naked? Answer on occasion McCauley
(03:35):
on average? Would you be naked if it was one
hundred percent of the time more than fifty percent of
the time? Or what answer? Can you repeat it? McCauley, sure,
when you're performing the massages, can you tell me you
said on occasion? Over the five years that you worked
for him, how often did you perform massages naked? Answer
somewhere between twenty five and fifty percent of the time. McCauley.
(04:00):
Did Epstein try to make the massage a sexual? Answer
on occasion? McCauley. Would Epstein have you rub his nipples?
Answer yes, McCauley. Would he masturbate during the massage? Answer yes, McCauley.
Did he use sex toys or vibrators on you? Answer yes, McCauley.
Would he leave the sex toys or vibrators out after
(04:20):
the massage or would he clean up after himself? Manager
objection vague form answer he did not ever clean up. McCauley.
Do you believe that your experience during the years you
were with Jeffrey and Maxwell damage you manager, objection leading
and form answer it affected me. Damage is a strong word, McCauley.
(04:44):
And in what way did it affect you? Answer? It
affected future relationships with men, trust issues, expectation issues. McCauley.
Did you observe Nadia Marsenkova and Glean at the house
at the same time? Manager objection leading in form answer,
I don't recall, McCauley. On the USVII trip, the second
(05:05):
trip that you took, do you recall Nadia Marsenkova being present? Answer?
I believe she was present on that trip. McCauley. Do
you recall Maxwell being present on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley.
Do you know an individual by the name of redacted?
Answer yes, McCauley. And who is redacted? Answer? She was
(05:26):
one of the girls that was around McCauley, was redacted
around both Jeffrey Epstein and Glen Maxwell. Answer, I don't recall, McCauley.
Do you recall when you first met redacted? Answer in
Palm Beach McCauley at Jeffrey Epstein's home. Answer yes, McCauley.
And what do you recall any observations about redacted when
(05:48):
you met her? Answer to speak with she was a
little rough around the edges, and I could see the
progression of her being groomed a little. They got her braces.
She had terrible posture, and with a lot of massages,
she learned to stand up straight. So I just saw
her become a much more confident person. McCauley, do you
recall how old she was when you first met her? Answer?
(06:09):
I assumed she was eighteen, but I don't know her age. McCauley.
We're going to take a break really quick and then
we'll be back. So we are going to go off
the record, and after a ten minute break, they're back. McCauley,
I'm just going to resume. I have a few more
questions for you. You mentioned visiting the US Virgin Islands.
Do you recall doing any activities with Maxwell when you
(06:31):
were on the visit to the USVII manager objection vague
as the time the witness I don't recall, McCauley. Do
you ever recall going hiking with her? Answer? Yes, McCauley.
Did Maxwell ever ask you to try to bring other
girls over for Jeffrey? Answer? At that time McCauley. Yes.
(06:51):
Answer no, McCauley, any other time? Answer well, she had
asked me if I knew anyone that could perform massages
that would come to the house McCauley. And what was
your understanding of that request? Manager objection? Answer well manager
form witness. I just wondered why they wouldn't just call me. McCauley.
(07:13):
And did you bring anybody else over to that house
to perform massage? Answer I did not, McCauley. When you
were either in the USVII or in Palm Beach, did
you ever observe any females either topless or naked by
the pool? Answer yes, McCauley. What did you observe? Answer
and mostly skinny dipping. McCauley. Do you know who the
(07:35):
individuals were that you observed? Answer Sarah Kellen and Golaine McCauley,
anybody else? Answer yes, but I don't recall who McCauley.
Did that happen on more than one occasion? Answer yes, McCauley.
How often do you remember making those observations? Answer three times. McCauley.
(07:55):
Do you recall giving a statement to the police regarding
Jeffrey Epstein Answer yes, McCauley. Do you recall when you
gave that statement? Answer? I don't recall the date. McCauley.
Do you recall the year? Answer I want to say
it was early two thousand and six or late two
thousand and five. McCauley. Do you recall who you met with?
Answer no. McCauley. Do you recall what you told police? Answer?
(08:19):
It was similar to this. They were asking me a
lot of questions that I answered. They knew a lot,
They knew what the bathroom looked like, they knew what
the couch had a hot pink throw on it with
green tassels. I assumed that there had been videos and
they'd seen me they had seen the videos. That's what
I had assumed. I didn't know that maybe people had
already come forward and had given them statements and just
(08:40):
to interject the videos again, another person on the inside
talking about videos. Yet we have not seen one single video.
Question is where are these videos? McCauley. Did they ever
talk to you at all about the videos? Answer? They said,
were you aware that there were video cameras in the house?
I said no, but it would not surprise me. Ms. McCauley,
(09:03):
and I'm going to mark exhibit four. Do you have
an extra? Sorry? Did you get one? Okay, Robert zero
zero two through eighty nine, and I'm going to direct
you to page zero zero zero seventy six and I'm
going to hand it to you. The refer to document
was marked by the court reporter for identification as Schoberg
Exhibit four. McCauley, I'm just going to ask you to
(09:25):
take a look at that. As you can see here
under the narrative line there there is a name. It
says reported by Racary, Joseph. Is that a name you
recall meeting with a detective? Detective Racary? Answer? Yes, I
mean I don't recall his name, only except that he
had been following me around and left me cards like
on my car and in my door. I tried to
(09:46):
avoid him for a long time. McCauley. And can you
just look at the text underneath there? Answer? Uh huh, McCauley.
Take a moment to look at that. Answer Okay, sure, McCauley.
Does that refresh your record election as to what you
told the police during the investigation? Answer? There are mistakes
in here. I was not twenty three when I met him.
(10:07):
I was twenty one. McCauley, anything else that doesn't look correct,
answer the same error that I had met him three
years ago, and it obviously had been closer to five.
There is also the error he obviously misunderstood me. He
did not pay for my tuition at college. I'm still
paying those school loans. But he did pay for me
to go to massage school and cosmetology school. Okay, it
(10:30):
pretty much ends here McCauley, yes, right about halfway through
the page. Answer Okay, miss McCauley. So, Johannah, that concludes
my initial peace. I'm going to reserve the rest of
my time for redirect. I'm going to turn it over
to Laura manager. Who is Laura? Can we just take
a little break. McCauley's sure, no problem. The videographer off
(10:51):
the record at ten oh five, so that looks like
the perfect place for us to take a break as well.
And then when we pick back up, we'll get to
the cross examination by Hi, Laura Meninger. All of the
information that goes with this episode can be found in
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive
(11:12):
right back in to the Johanna Schoberg deposition and pick
up where we left off, with Laura Meninger taking over
the questioning. So they go back on the record at
ten fourteen and things kick back off. Menager, Hi answer
from Shoburg. Hello, Menager, we've never met before today. Correct
(11:32):
answer correct, Menager. Can you tell me a little bit
about your current job? Answer sure, I just purchased a salon.
I'm a salon owner. I'm a hairstylist. Menager. Congratulations, Shoberg,
thank you, Menager. How long have you been a hairstylist
Shoburg For ten years? Menager? And what did you do
(11:52):
before that? Answer? I briefly did massage in a spa
for about a year and a half, and before that,
I was a nanny, and before that I was in school.
Manager And I believe you said you studied psychology in school?
Answer correct? Manager. Did you graduate? Answer yes, manager with
a degree in psychology? Answer yes, Manager. Where did you
(12:15):
get training to be a massage therapist? Answer redacted? Manager?
And when did you do that? Answer that would have
been I believe in redacted Menager? And how long did
you study there? Answer? I think it was a six
month program. Manager, and you worked in a spa thereafter?
(12:35):
Answer I did, manager? And what was the name of
the spa? Again redacted? Manager? And are you married? Answer no, manager.
Do you have children? Answer no menager? And how old
are you now? Answer redacted manager. Can you tell me
about your first meeting with Glenn Maxwell? Answer sure, I
(12:56):
was sitting on a bench redacted or redacted. She approached me.
I was getting ready to go to a class. It
was my junior year. Yes, it was my second semester
of my junior year, and she and another woman approached me.
The other woman didn't speak that I recall, and she
asked me about She had a house in Palm Beach
and she was looking for someone that she could hire
to work at the house where she could post that
(13:19):
she needed help. She then asked me if I knew anyone,
and I didn't know who she was. I didn't want
to take the responsibility of finding someone to work for,
and so I said, sorry, I don't And then she said, well,
maybe what about you? And I was at a point
in my life I was super spontaneous and willing to
skip school. So she said, come to my house, come
(13:39):
in my car and check it out. And so I did, Maninger. Okay,
So for those of you of us who don't know,
is this like a college campus, like a traditional college campus,
or is it in a city setting? Answer? It's in
a city setting. I mean, Palm Beach is not a
big city, so it's on the intra coast. And there
(14:00):
was a big grassy area that was surrounded by buildings.
So she was inside of the campus, Menager, and she
was looking for a bulletin board where she could post
a job. Answer something like that, yes, Menager. Did she
have any kind of flyers answer? Not that I recall, Menager,
but that's what she asked you for, directions to a
(14:21):
bulletin board where she could post a job answer yes, McCauley. Objection, Menager.
And it sounds like you guys got into a conversation.
Is that fair? Answer? Yes, Menager. Can you describe Glenn
Maxwell's personality? Answer? Well, I instantly picked up on the
fact that she was British. She had on like workout clothes.
(14:43):
I believe she was wearing all black and she I mean,
she was a little snarky, but I felt comfortable enough
to get in the car with her. Menager. And it
sounds like you had contact with her over the next
several years. Is that fair? Answer yes? And did you
get to know more about her personality over those five years?
Four or five years? Answer yes, Menager. And can you
(15:07):
describe for me how you observed her personality to be
answer sure, She definitely had a great sense of humor.
She loved making jokes, I mean in a very British way.
I don't remember her ever laughing, but she was funny.
And I remember just thinking she the first weekend that
we flew to the Virgin Islands, she flew the helicopter
from Saint wherever we were to Little Saint Jeff or
(15:30):
whatever the name of the island was, and I just thought, Wow,
who is this woman? And that was all part of
the facade, folks. Having Maxwell be who she was was
just a gigantic part of what Epstein had going on.
And if she wasn't that kind of socialite, that kind
of woman that could get people comfortable, this operation would
have never worked as well as it did. Menager. Would
(15:52):
you say that you respected her? Answer yes, Menager. When
you ended up getting in the car with her and
this other woman and going back to the house, who
was driving the car. Answer, she was driving. Manager. And
where did she take you? Answer she took me to
the house in Palm Beach. And can you describe the
house in Palm Beach. Answer sure. It's at the end
(16:13):
of L Brio Away on the intra coastal. The house
was either white or pink. It was pink at one time.
It may have ever been painted. It was nothing fancy,
It was large. It was like a beach house. Manager.
And when you got there, do you remember meeting other
people while you were there that first time? Answer? I
remember other people being in the home. I don't really
(16:35):
remember who was there. Manager. Do you remember meeting like
a butler or answer potentially a chef, someone in the kitchen,
maybe a house manager. Yeah. Manager. What was your impression
of this other woman that was with miss Maxwell at
the time? Answer zero, She left zero impression on me. Manager, age, height, hair, color, nothing,
(16:59):
Answer I want to say she was brunette, age twenties. Yeah. Manager.
And you were going for the purpose of checking out
potentially working for this job. Answer yes, Manager. And it
sounds like you met Jeffrey Epstein that first time that
you did go to the house, right McAuley objection. Answer
(17:19):
I believe I either met him that time or the
next time. I can't recall, Menager. Okay, and tell me
about your first meeting with him. Answer sure, I met him.
I believe it was in the hallway right beside the kitchen.
There was a hallway. It was actually more like a room,
a pantry type of room. That's where all the pieces
of paper with the phone messages would lay. And there
(17:41):
she's talking about the notepads that we've talked about at
length here during the depositions. And I remember sitting on
the counter and speaking with him, and he was in
a bathrobe, and he spoke with me about being in
college and studying psychology. Manager. And did you form an
opinion of him in that first meeting? Answer? I so yeah.
I believe that he was smart, he was personable, and
(18:03):
could speak to anyone. Menager. Did he give off any
sexual vibes in that first meeting? Answer? No, Menager. And
where was Golaine when you were speaking with mister Epstein?
Answer I don't recall, Menager. Do you recall going to
a second floor of the home during that first meeting? Answer?
I don't recall. Golaine said at one point you might
(18:25):
get a massage today. That was sorry. That was the
second time when I was in the home working, and
I just thought it was crazy that I would get
a massage while I was working. But it did not
end up happening because the massuse could not stay. Menager,
Do you know who the messus was who could not stay?
Answer no, Menager, But that didn't happen on the first meeting.
(18:47):
You believe that it was the second meeting? Answer yes,
that was when I was there to work, Menager. How long?
How long did the first trip to the house end? Answer?
She gave me her phone number, and she took my
phone number, and she took me back to school. Manager,
And you were full time at school at the time,
Answer yes, menager. And how many classes were you taking
(19:08):
if you remember? Answer probably four or five? Menager. How
did you How long was it before you heard from
miss Maxwell again? Answer within probably three days? Manager. And
how did she contact you? Answer? She called me on
my At the time, I had a cell phone. It
could have been on my cell phone. It could have
been on my house phone. We had a house phone
(19:29):
back then. Manager. I remember where were you living at
the time? Answer I was in an apartment in West
Palm Beach. Manager And did you have a roommate or
with family? Answer? I had a roommate, Menager. So when
Miss Maxwell called you on whatever phone it was, do
you remember what she said? Answer? Yeah? She said do
(19:49):
you want to come over and work on Sunday? Manager?
And what did you say? Answer? I said sure, Menager?
And did you answer? I did? Manager? How did you
get there? Answer that I don't recall because I did
not have a car? Manager? Did you to this? Schoberg interrupts,
I think my roommate dropped me off. Honestly, I can
(20:10):
remember what I was wearing. You do, Menager? Ass I do?
She answers, Menager, what were you wearing? Answer? I had?
I still have the shirt. It's an old, weathered blue
North Carolina Tech Tar Hill shirt. Menager. Because you did
Miss Maxwell explain to you what you would be doing
on that Sunday when you came to work or was
(20:32):
that part of the prior conversation McCauley objection, show Burg
about what I was wearing? Menager, know about what you
were going to do at work? Answer? She explained that
she just wanted someone to help out around the house.
Answering phones you know grabbing drinks if someone wanted a
drink running errands? Manager, and so you dressed appropriate to
(20:52):
what you believed, She interrupts her here meaning shoburg, I
did not know how to dress properly. Apparently I should
not have worn that. But I was in college. Menager.
Did anyone say anything to you? Answer no, Menager, So
when you got there or what happened? This is your
second time to the house, but your first time working? Right?
(21:13):
Answer yes, I was probably introduced to a few people
that were there. I mean I was there for several hours.
Do I recall every minute? No, I just recall when
I would actually have to go to work, answer the phone,
pour some drinks for people, just water, they didn't drink alcohol,
and run errands. There are a few errands that I run. Mener.
You described those errands earlier? Answer I did in her car? Menager?
(21:38):
You used her car? Answer yes, Menager. What kind of
car was it? Answer it was a Mercedes convertible. Menager.
Did anyone go with you? Answer no? Menager. You described
a shopping trip. Was that in the same car? Answer yes, Menager.
Was that a separate trip from when you went to
run errands? Answer yes, that's when Galame went with me
(22:01):
and she drove. Manager. Okay, so you ran errands, came
back more than once, answer twice, and then you went
on a shopping trip. Answer yes, manager. During the time
you were at the home, was there anything that made
you suspicious? Answer no manager or Leary? Answer no manager.
You mentioned that there may have been some discussion of
(22:23):
a massage. Do you recall that discussion? Answer? I had
never had a massage before, so she just said there
was a massage therapist coming and I may get one. Manager.
Did she say who it was? Answer? No manager. So
when you went shopping on this trip, you said, Glaine
drove the car and you went with her. Was anyone
else there? Answer no manager. And where did you all go? Answer?
(22:47):
We went to Worth Avenue in Palm Beach, but because
it was Sunday, the stores were closed, So from there
we went to I believe it was Palm Beach Daily News,
which was like a little bookstore, and I remember her
purchasing reading glasses for Jeffrey and some magazines. Menager, were
those things for the home? Answer yes, menager. And earlier
(23:09):
on your errands, you had been purchasing things for the
home or the office. Yes and yes, Menager. Besides the
printer cartridge in cartridge, do you remember anything else? Answer well, yes,
like they wanted specific magazines. I don't know if it
was like Scientific American or something to that effect. It
wasn't like Playboy. Manager. Okay, did you ever answer phones?
(23:33):
Answer yes, Menager. When did you answer phones? Answer that day? Menager?
Do you remember anything notable about the phone calls? Answer?
I just remember I always had to say he's unavailable.
Can I take a message? Manager? And where did you
take a message? Answer on a little notepad next to
the phone? Menager. Do you recall any small children calling
(23:54):
the house that day? Answer no. Manager. Where you speak
to anyone about their school experience or anything like that?
Answer no, Menager. Did you take any messages for famous people?
Answer they could have been famous and I would have
been clueless. Manager. Did you take messages at any other
point during the time that you worked for Jeffrey? Answer no, Menager.
(24:18):
And you said you remember at the end of the
day being paid by Glaine. Answer yes, Menager, And you
were paid for doing errands and answering phones and whatever
else you did. Answer yes. McCauley objection, Menager, Did you
do anything else that day in terms of errands or
things around the house that you remember. Answer not that
(24:40):
I recall. Menager. Did you come back to answer phones
and do errands any other day? Answer no, Menager, that
was the only day you did it. Answer yes. All right, folks,
we're going to wrap up right there, and in the
next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box.
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
left off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's get
right back to it, shall we. McCauley, did you ever
hear or observe Jeffrey talking on the phone about Frederick Fokai? Answer? Yes,
(00:21):
manager objection leading McCauley. What did you hear? Answer? I
heard him call someone and say, for Kai is in Hawaii,
can we find some girls for him? McCauley. And what
was your reaction to that? Answer? Well, I was massaging
and I didn't have a reaction. I tried to remain
reaction lists the whole five years. McCauley. Did Jeffrey ever
(00:42):
take you shopping? Answer? Yes, McCauley. Can you describe for
me what happened? Answer? Sure, he took me to Victoria's Secret,
Of course he did. I believe he picked out everything
and went into the room with me, the fitting room,
which was very odd. McCauley. Did he make any comments
about being in the fitting room with you? Answer? He
(01:03):
joked that one time he was in there with another
girl and she said something like dad. But that's all,
I recall, McCauley, did Jeffrey ever talk to you? Let
me back up a moment. Have you ever been propositioned
by anyone to have a baby for someone? Answer yes, McCauley.
And who propositioned you, McCauley, Jeffrey asked me. McCauley. Did
(01:24):
he ask you more than once? Answer yes, McCauley. And
what did he say? Answer? Basically just said I want
you to be the mother of my baby. McCauley. And
do you recall your response to that answer? I don't
believe that. I said flat out no. I didn't agree
to it. I wouldn't just say oh yeah, really okay, McCauley.
(01:44):
Did you ever bring other girls over? As Maxwell requested?
Manager objection leading hearsay form Joanna one time, McCauley. Let
me back up for a minute, just to make it
a clean question. Did you ever bring friends over to massage? Jeffrey?
Answer no, McCauley. And why did you not bring friends
(02:06):
over to massage? Jeffrey answer? I was living in secret
about what I was doing during the massages, and I
did not want my friends to be to know what
I was doing, so I did not want anyone else
coming into that, McCauley, was Bill Clinton a friend of
Jeffrey Epstein's manager? Objection foundation McCauley, let me back up.
(02:28):
Do you know if Bill Clinton was a friend of
Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? I knew he had dealings with Bill Clinton.
I did not know that there were friends until I
read the Vanity Fair article about them going to Africa together. McCauley,
did Jeffrey ever talk to you about Bill Clinton? Answer?
He said one time that Clinton likes them young, referring
to girls. McCauley, did you ever do you recall ever
(02:51):
taking a trip to Jeffrey Epstein's home in New Mexico?
Answer yes, McCauley. And do you recall who went with
you on that trip? Answer? Sarah Kellen was there, Glaine
was there. That's all I recall. McCauley. Do you recall
where you went or why you went on the trip
to New Mexico? Answer to work McCauley. Did you perform
(03:11):
massages on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley. Did you do
you recall whether you perform massages with Sarah Kellen on
that trip? Answer no. McCauley. Do you recall in the
New Mexico home ever observing nude photos of females there?
Answer I don't recall. McCauley. When you would provide massages,
would you provide those massages naked? Answer on occasion McCauley
(03:35):
on average? Would you be naked if it was one
hundred percent of the time more than fifty percent of
the time? Or what answer? Can you repeat it? McCauley, sure,
when you're performing the massages, can you tell me you
said on occasion? Over the five years that you worked
for him, how often did you perform massages naked? Answer
somewhere between twenty five and fifty percent of the time. McCauley.
(04:00):
Did Epstein try to make the massage a sexual? Answer
on occasion? McCauley. Would Epstein have you rub his nipples?
Answer yes, McCauley. Would he masturbate during the massage? Answer yes, McCauley.
Did he use sex toys or vibrators on you? Answer yes, McCauley.
Would he leave the sex toys or vibrators out after
(04:20):
the massage or would he clean up after himself? Manager
objection vague form answer he did not ever clean up. McCauley.
Do you believe that your experience during the years you
were with Jeffrey and Maxwell damage you manager, objection leading
and form answer it affected me. Damage is a strong word, McCauley.
(04:44):
And in what way did it affect you? Answer? It
affected future relationships with men, trust issues, expectation issues. McCauley.
Did you observe Nadia Marsenkova and Glean at the house
at the same time? Manager objection leading in form answer,
I don't recall, McCauley. On the USVII trip, the second
(05:05):
trip that you took, do you recall Nadia Marsenkova being present? Answer?
I believe she was present on that trip. McCauley. Do
you recall Maxwell being present on that trip? Answer yes, McCauley.
Do you know an individual by the name of redacted?
Answer yes, McCauley. And who is redacted? Answer? She was
(05:26):
one of the girls that was around McCauley, was redacted
around both Jeffrey Epstein and Glen Maxwell. Answer, I don't recall, McCauley.
Do you recall when you first met redacted? Answer in
Palm Beach McCauley at Jeffrey Epstein's home. Answer yes, McCauley.
And what do you recall any observations about redacted when
(05:48):
you met her? Answer to speak with she was a
little rough around the edges, and I could see the
progression of her being groomed a little. They got her braces.
She had terrible posture, and with a lot of massages,
she learned to stand up straight. So I just saw
her become a much more confident person. McCauley, do you
recall how old she was when you first met her? Answer?
(06:09):
I assumed she was eighteen, but I don't know her age. McCauley.
We're going to take a break really quick and then
we'll be back. So we are going to go off
the record, and after a ten minute break, they're back. McCauley,
I'm just going to resume. I have a few more
questions for you. You mentioned visiting the US Virgin Islands.
Do you recall doing any activities with Maxwell when you
(06:31):
were on the visit to the USVII manager objection vague
as the time the witness I don't recall, McCauley. Do
you ever recall going hiking with her? Answer? Yes, McCauley.
Did Maxwell ever ask you to try to bring other
girls over for Jeffrey? Answer? At that time McCauley. Yes.
(06:51):
Answer no, McCauley, any other time? Answer well, she had
asked me if I knew anyone that could perform massages
that would come to the house McCauley. And what was
your understanding of that request? Manager objection? Answer well manager
form witness. I just wondered why they wouldn't just call me. McCauley.
(07:13):
And did you bring anybody else over to that house
to perform massage? Answer I did not, McCauley. When you
were either in the USVII or in Palm Beach, did
you ever observe any females either topless or naked by
the pool? Answer yes, McCauley. What did you observe? Answer
and mostly skinny dipping. McCauley. Do you know who the
(07:35):
individuals were that you observed? Answer Sarah Kellen and Golaine McCauley,
anybody else? Answer yes, but I don't recall who McCauley.
Did that happen on more than one occasion? Answer yes, McCauley.
How often do you remember making those observations? Answer three times. McCauley.
(07:55):
Do you recall giving a statement to the police regarding
Jeffrey Epstein Answer yes, McCauley. Do you recall when you
gave that statement? Answer? I don't recall the date. McCauley.
Do you recall the year? Answer I want to say
it was early two thousand and six or late two
thousand and five. McCauley. Do you recall who you met with?
Answer no. McCauley. Do you recall what you told police? Answer?
(08:19):
It was similar to this. They were asking me a
lot of questions that I answered. They knew a lot,
They knew what the bathroom looked like, they knew what
the couch had a hot pink throw on it with
green tassels. I assumed that there had been videos and
they'd seen me they had seen the videos. That's what
I had assumed. I didn't know that maybe people had
already come forward and had given them statements and just
(08:40):
to interject the videos again, another person on the inside
talking about videos. Yet we have not seen one single video.
Question is where are these videos? McCauley. Did they ever
talk to you at all about the videos? Answer? They said,
were you aware that there were video cameras in the house?
I said no, but it would not surprise me. Ms. McCauley,
(09:03):
and I'm going to mark exhibit four. Do you have
an extra? Sorry? Did you get one? Okay, Robert zero
zero two through eighty nine, and I'm going to direct
you to page zero zero zero seventy six and I'm
going to hand it to you. The refer to document
was marked by the court reporter for identification as Schoberg
Exhibit four. McCauley, I'm just going to ask you to
(09:25):
take a look at that. As you can see here
under the narrative line there there is a name. It
says reported by Racary, Joseph. Is that a name you
recall meeting with a detective? Detective Racary? Answer? Yes, I
mean I don't recall his name, only except that he
had been following me around and left me cards like
on my car and in my door. I tried to
(09:46):
avoid him for a long time. McCauley. And can you
just look at the text underneath there? Answer? Uh huh, McCauley.
Take a moment to look at that. Answer Okay, sure, McCauley.
Does that refresh your record election as to what you
told the police during the investigation? Answer? There are mistakes
in here. I was not twenty three when I met him.
(10:07):
I was twenty one. McCauley, anything else that doesn't look correct,
answer the same error that I had met him three
years ago, and it obviously had been closer to five.
There is also the error he obviously misunderstood me. He
did not pay for my tuition at college. I'm still
paying those school loans. But he did pay for me
to go to massage school and cosmetology school. Okay, it
(10:30):
pretty much ends here McCauley, yes, right about halfway through
the page. Answer Okay, miss McCauley. So, Johannah, that concludes
my initial peace. I'm going to reserve the rest of
my time for redirect. I'm going to turn it over
to Laura manager. Who is Laura? Can we just take
a little break. McCauley's sure, no problem. The videographer off
(10:51):
the record at ten oh five, so that looks like
the perfect place for us to take a break as well.
And then when we pick back up, we'll get to
the cross examination by Hi, Laura Meninger. All of the
information that goes with this episode can be found in
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive
(11:12):
right back in to the Johanna Schoberg deposition and pick
up where we left off, with Laura Meninger taking over
the questioning. So they go back on the record at
ten fourteen and things kick back off. Menager, Hi answer
from Shoburg. Hello, Menager, we've never met before today. Correct
(11:32):
answer correct, Menager. Can you tell me a little bit
about your current job? Answer sure, I just purchased a salon.
I'm a salon owner. I'm a hairstylist. Menager. Congratulations, Shoberg,
thank you, Menager. How long have you been a hairstylist
Shoburg For ten years? Menager? And what did you do
(11:52):
before that? Answer? I briefly did massage in a spa
for about a year and a half, and before that,
I was a nanny, and before that I was in school.
Manager And I believe you said you studied psychology in school?
Answer correct? Manager. Did you graduate? Answer yes, manager with
a degree in psychology? Answer yes, Manager. Where did you
(12:15):
get training to be a massage therapist? Answer redacted? Manager?
And when did you do that? Answer that would have
been I believe in redacted Menager? And how long did
you study there? Answer? I think it was a six
month program. Manager, and you worked in a spa thereafter?
(12:35):
Answer I did, manager? And what was the name of
the spa? Again redacted? Manager? And are you married? Answer no, manager.
Do you have children? Answer no menager? And how old
are you now? Answer redacted manager. Can you tell me
about your first meeting with Glenn Maxwell? Answer sure, I
(12:56):
was sitting on a bench redacted or redacted. She approached me.
I was getting ready to go to a class. It
was my junior year. Yes, it was my second semester
of my junior year, and she and another woman approached me.
The other woman didn't speak that I recall, and she
asked me about She had a house in Palm Beach
and she was looking for someone that she could hire
to work at the house where she could post that
(13:19):
she needed help. She then asked me if I knew anyone,
and I didn't know who she was. I didn't want
to take the responsibility of finding someone to work for,
and so I said, sorry, I don't And then she said, well,
maybe what about you? And I was at a point
in my life I was super spontaneous and willing to
skip school. So she said, come to my house, come
(13:39):
in my car and check it out. And so I did, Maninger. Okay,
So for those of you of us who don't know,
is this like a college campus, like a traditional college campus,
or is it in a city setting? Answer? It's in
a city setting. I mean, Palm Beach is not a
big city, so it's on the intra coast. And there
(14:00):
was a big grassy area that was surrounded by buildings.
So she was inside of the campus, Menager, and she
was looking for a bulletin board where she could post
a job. Answer something like that, yes, Menager. Did she
have any kind of flyers answer? Not that I recall, Menager,
but that's what she asked you for, directions to a
(14:21):
bulletin board where she could post a job answer yes, McCauley. Objection, Menager.
And it sounds like you guys got into a conversation.
Is that fair? Answer? Yes, Menager. Can you describe Glenn
Maxwell's personality? Answer? Well, I instantly picked up on the
fact that she was British. She had on like workout clothes.
(14:43):
I believe she was wearing all black and she I mean,
she was a little snarky, but I felt comfortable enough
to get in the car with her. Menager. And it
sounds like you had contact with her over the next
several years. Is that fair? Answer yes? And did you
get to know more about her personality over those five years?
Four or five years? Answer yes, Menager. And can you
(15:07):
describe for me how you observed her personality to be
answer sure, She definitely had a great sense of humor.
She loved making jokes, I mean in a very British way.
I don't remember her ever laughing, but she was funny.
And I remember just thinking she the first weekend that
we flew to the Virgin Islands, she flew the helicopter
from Saint wherever we were to Little Saint Jeff or
(15:30):
whatever the name of the island was, and I just thought, Wow,
who is this woman? And that was all part of
the facade, folks. Having Maxwell be who she was was
just a gigantic part of what Epstein had going on.
And if she wasn't that kind of socialite, that kind
of woman that could get people comfortable, this operation would
have never worked as well as it did. Menager. Would
(15:52):
you say that you respected her? Answer yes, Menager. When
you ended up getting in the car with her and
this other woman and going back to the house, who
was driving the car. Answer, she was driving. Manager. And
where did she take you? Answer she took me to
the house in Palm Beach. And can you describe the
house in Palm Beach. Answer sure. It's at the end
(16:13):
of L Brio Away on the intra coastal. The house
was either white or pink. It was pink at one time.
It may have ever been painted. It was nothing fancy,
It was large. It was like a beach house. Manager.
And when you got there, do you remember meeting other
people while you were there that first time? Answer? I
remember other people being in the home. I don't really
(16:35):
remember who was there. Manager. Do you remember meeting like
a butler or answer potentially a chef, someone in the kitchen,
maybe a house manager. Yeah. Manager. What was your impression
of this other woman that was with miss Maxwell at
the time? Answer zero, She left zero impression on me. Manager, age, height, hair, color, nothing,
(16:59):
Answer I want to say she was brunette, age twenties. Yeah. Manager.
And you were going for the purpose of checking out
potentially working for this job. Answer yes, Manager. And it
sounds like you met Jeffrey Epstein that first time that
you did go to the house, right McAuley objection. Answer
(17:19):
I believe I either met him that time or the
next time. I can't recall, Menager. Okay, and tell me
about your first meeting with him. Answer sure, I met him.
I believe it was in the hallway right beside the kitchen.
There was a hallway. It was actually more like a room,
a pantry type of room. That's where all the pieces
of paper with the phone messages would lay. And there
(17:41):
she's talking about the notepads that we've talked about at
length here during the depositions. And I remember sitting on
the counter and speaking with him, and he was in
a bathrobe, and he spoke with me about being in
college and studying psychology. Manager. And did you form an
opinion of him in that first meeting? Answer? I so yeah.
I believe that he was smart, he was personable, and
(18:03):
could speak to anyone. Menager. Did he give off any
sexual vibes in that first meeting? Answer? No, Menager. And
where was Golaine when you were speaking with mister Epstein?
Answer I don't recall, Menager. Do you recall going to
a second floor of the home during that first meeting? Answer?
I don't recall. Golaine said at one point you might
(18:25):
get a massage today. That was sorry. That was the
second time when I was in the home working, and
I just thought it was crazy that I would get
a massage while I was working. But it did not
end up happening because the massuse could not stay. Menager,
Do you know who the messus was who could not stay?
Answer no, Menager, But that didn't happen on the first meeting.
(18:47):
You believe that it was the second meeting? Answer yes,
that was when I was there to work, Menager. How long?
How long did the first trip to the house end? Answer?
She gave me her phone number, and she took my
phone number, and she took me back to school. Manager,
And you were full time at school at the time,
Answer yes, menager. And how many classes were you taking
(19:08):
if you remember? Answer probably four or five? Menager. How
did you How long was it before you heard from
miss Maxwell again? Answer within probably three days? Manager. And
how did she contact you? Answer? She called me on
my At the time, I had a cell phone. It
could have been on my cell phone. It could have
been on my house phone. We had a house phone
(19:29):
back then. Manager. I remember where were you living at
the time? Answer I was in an apartment in West
Palm Beach. Manager And did you have a roommate or
with family? Answer? I had a roommate, Menager. So when
Miss Maxwell called you on whatever phone it was, do
you remember what she said? Answer? Yeah? She said do
(19:49):
you want to come over and work on Sunday? Manager?
And what did you say? Answer? I said sure, Menager?
And did you answer? I did? Manager? How did you
get there? Answer that I don't recall because I did
not have a car? Manager? Did you to this? Schoberg interrupts,
I think my roommate dropped me off. Honestly, I can
(20:10):
remember what I was wearing. You do, Menager? Ass I do?
She answers, Menager, what were you wearing? Answer? I had?
I still have the shirt. It's an old, weathered blue
North Carolina Tech Tar Hill shirt. Menager. Because you did
Miss Maxwell explain to you what you would be doing
on that Sunday when you came to work or was
(20:32):
that part of the prior conversation McCauley objection, show Burg
about what I was wearing? Menager, know about what you
were going to do at work? Answer? She explained that
she just wanted someone to help out around the house.
Answering phones you know grabbing drinks if someone wanted a
drink running errands? Manager, and so you dressed appropriate to
(20:52):
what you believed, She interrupts her here meaning shoburg, I
did not know how to dress properly. Apparently I should
not have worn that. But I was in college. Menager.
Did anyone say anything to you? Answer no, Menager, So
when you got there or what happened? This is your
second time to the house, but your first time working? Right?
(21:13):
Answer yes, I was probably introduced to a few people
that were there. I mean I was there for several hours.
Do I recall every minute? No, I just recall when
I would actually have to go to work, answer the phone,
pour some drinks for people, just water, they didn't drink alcohol,
and run errands. There are a few errands that I run. Mener.
You described those errands earlier? Answer I did in her car? Menager?
(21:38):
You used her car? Answer yes, Menager. What kind of
car was it? Answer it was a Mercedes convertible. Menager.
Did anyone go with you? Answer no? Menager. You described
a shopping trip. Was that in the same car? Answer yes, Menager.
Was that a separate trip from when you went to
run errands? Answer yes, that's when Galame went with me
(22:01):
and she drove. Manager. Okay, so you ran errands, came
back more than once, answer twice, and then you went
on a shopping trip. Answer yes, manager. During the time
you were at the home, was there anything that made
you suspicious? Answer no manager or Leary? Answer no manager.
You mentioned that there may have been some discussion of
(22:23):
a massage. Do you recall that discussion? Answer? I had
never had a massage before, so she just said there
was a massage therapist coming and I may get one. Manager.
Did she say who it was? Answer? No manager. So
when you went shopping on this trip, you said, Glaine
drove the car and you went with her. Was anyone
else there? Answer no manager. And where did you all go? Answer?
(22:47):
We went to Worth Avenue in Palm Beach, but because
it was Sunday, the stores were closed, So from there
we went to I believe it was Palm Beach Daily News,
which was like a little bookstore, and I remember her
purchasing reading glasses for Jeffrey and some magazines. Menager, were
those things for the home? Answer yes, menager. And earlier
(23:09):
on your errands, you had been purchasing things for the
home or the office. Yes and yes, Menager. Besides the
printer cartridge in cartridge, do you remember anything else? Answer well, yes,
like they wanted specific magazines. I don't know if it
was like Scientific American or something to that effect. It
wasn't like Playboy. Manager. Okay, did you ever answer phones?
(23:33):
Answer yes, Menager. When did you answer phones? Answer that day? Menager?
Do you remember anything notable about the phone calls? Answer?
I just remember I always had to say he's unavailable.
Can I take a message? Manager? And where did you
take a message? Answer on a little notepad next to
the phone? Menager. Do you recall any small children calling
(23:54):
the house that day? Answer no. Manager. Where you speak
to anyone about their school experience or anything like that?
Answer no, Menager. Did you take any messages for famous people?
Answer they could have been famous and I would have
been clueless. Manager. Did you take messages at any other
point during the time that you worked for Jeffrey? Answer no, Menager.
(24:18):
And you said you remember at the end of the
day being paid by Glaine. Answer yes, Menager, And you
were paid for doing errands and answering phones and whatever
else you did. Answer yes. McCauley objection, Menager, Did you
do anything else that day in terms of errands or
things around the house that you remember. Answer not that
(24:40):
I recall. Menager. Did you come back to answer phones
and do errands any other day? Answer no, Menager, that
was the only day you did it. Answer yes. All right, folks,
we're going to wrap up right there, and in the
next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.