November 24, 2025 • 22 mins
In her deposition in the defamation lawsuit filed by Virginia Giuffre against Ghislaine Maxwell, Johanna Sjoberg described being recruited to work for Jeffrey Epstein under the impression that it was a legitimate job opportunity. According to her testimony, she was initially hired to help with office work but was soon asked to give massages to Epstein—something she testified quickly evolved into inappropriate and unwanted conduct. Sjoberg stated that Ghislaine Maxwell played a central role in managing the household and was often present during these encounters, contributing to the atmosphere of control and pressure. Her deposition supported claims made by Giuffre and other women who alleged they were misled into situations where they were exploited.
Sjoberg also testified about interactions with well-known individuals while in Epstein’s company, including an allegation involving Prince Andrew, which she said took place at Epstein’s residence. She described an incident in which Maxwell, Epstein, and others were present during a moment she considered inappropriate and unsettling. While the full extent of those interactions remains the subject of legal scrutiny and public interest, Sjoberg’s deposition contributed to the broader pattern of allegations suggesting a tightly controlled environment where young women were manipulated under false pretenses. Her account was one of several that added weight to the claims being investigated in both civil and criminal proceedings surrounding Epstein and Maxwell.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Sjoberg also testified about interactions with well-known individuals while in Epstein’s company, including an allegation involving Prince Andrew, which she said took place at Epstein’s residence. She described an incident in which Maxwell, Epstein, and others were present during a moment she considered inappropriate and unsettling. While the full extent of those interactions remains the subject of legal scrutiny and public interest, Sjoberg’s deposition contributed to the broader pattern of allegations suggesting a tightly controlled environment where young women were manipulated under false pretenses. Her account was one of several that added weight to the claims being investigated in both civil and criminal proceedings surrounding Epstein and Maxwell.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
We left off with Menager asking questions about the interview
with Wendy Lee, So we're going to pick up right there. Manager.
Do you know whether the police were recording their interview
with you? Answer yes, Manager, Have you ever heard the recording?
Answer no? Manager. Did you ever receive notification that you
(00:24):
were named as a victim in any of Jeffrey Epstein's
criminal cases? Answer no, Manager, other than the fifteen hundred
from Wendy Lee. Did you receive any other money for
making any statements? Answer no? Manager. Did you give an
interview to Virginia's attorneys? Answer yes, McCauley, you can say, yes, manager.
(00:45):
When was that? Answer two weeks ago? Roughly? Manager? And
who was present during that meeting? Answer my lawyers and
several others? Manager, several other what? Answer lawyers? I don't know.
I don't know who they all are. Manager. So soll McCauley,
you recall being there? Answer yes, Manager, mis Schultz, you
recall being there? Answer no, I didn't learn it. No,
(01:08):
you weren't there. Next question Brad Edwards. Edwards's answers yes,
Next one, Paul Cassell answer maybe I don't remember, Manager,
And was that interview recorded? Answer? I don't know, it
may have been, I don't remember. Manager. Did anyone ask
your permission to record it? Answer? Maybe, I don't recall. Manager.
(01:29):
Were you shown any documents during that meeting? Answer flight logs, Manager,
any other documents? Answer? No, Manager. What did miss McCauley
or mister Edwards or any of the other lawyers say
to you about Glenn Maxwell? Answer they just asked impressions.
They never said anything about her. Manager. Were you shown
a copy of any report that came out of the interview?
(01:52):
Answer which interview? Manager, the one with Virginia's attorneys McCauley
objection Shoberg. No, you testified earlier about an incident with
a camera that Glen Maxwell had given you. I want
to ask you some questions about that. Answer sure, Manager,
Do you know when that was? Answer? That was in
(02:12):
two thousand and two? Manager, And why does that date
stick out? Answer because I was living Where I was
living specifically, and where I had the phone call. Manager.
Tell me what you remember about the conversation. Answer. I
had been over to the house prior messaging Jeffrey, and
I got a phone call from her. And she told
me she had a camera for me for my photography class,
(02:34):
But yet she couldn't give it to me yet because
during the massage, I didn't finish my job and she
had to finish it for me. Manager. Did she say
what she meant? Answer? No, but I knew. Manager. Was
there any other time that you had discussed with her
finishing your job? Answer not that I recall, Manager, any
(02:55):
other time. You just recalled discussing with her anything about
your sexual contact with Jeffrey mcaulay. Objection witness No, Manager,
did she give you the camera? Answer? I did get
the camera. Manager, Okay, when did she give you the camera? Answer?
I guess the next time I went to the house
manager And what was said at that time? Answer? I
(03:18):
honestly don't know that she handed it to me. I
remember it being there for me. Manager. What kind of
camera was it? Answer A Canon rebel thirty five millimeter? Manager.
Do you still have it? Answer? I do not. No
one uses thirty five millimeter anymore. Manager, what's that? Answer?
No one uses thirty five millimeter anymore. Manager, Back to
(03:39):
the cell phone conversation. Answer right, Manager, was it your birthday? Answer?
It was just I was taking a photography class and
I needed a camera. Manager. Do you know her to
be a photographer? Answer not a professional, but I knew
she was interested in photography. Manager. Did you see her
with the camera? Answer yes? Did you see her taking
(04:01):
photographs of nude people? Answer no, manager. Manager, did she
ever ask you to take a photograph of a semi
clad or naked? Answer? Did she ever ask to take
a photo of me? Manager? Semi clad or naked? Answer? No? Manager.
Did she ever ask to take a photograph of you
at any point? Answer? I don't remember, Menager, did you
(04:23):
tell anyone else about this conversation? You couldn't give it
to me now because I hadn't finished my job? Answer no, Manager.
I think I'm going to reserve the rest of my
time for recross, so you all, I guess ken take
a break, mister Lewis, Can I have one second? Manager, Sure, McCauley,
we can go off the record, videographer off the record.
(04:45):
At twelve oh nine. After the recess, they come back
and it looks like Menager has some more questions. Menager, sorry,
just a couple more questions. It sounds like there may
have been an additional telephone conference that one mic construe
as a meeting with attorney. Is that true? Answer correct? Menager?
All right, tell me about that answer. They just wanted
(05:06):
to We had met Pryor and they just wanted to
clarify a few things and ask a few more questions. Menager, Okay,
what did they clarify? Answer any other specific times that
I had, you know, seen Galaine naked, or if I had,
you know, had any sexual massages with her, any type
of questions like that? Menainger? Okay, And what did you
tell them about having any sexual massages with Glaine? Answer
(05:30):
that I was not asked to do to perform anything
with her, Menager? And you did not, answer correct, Menager.
And what did you tell them about specific times of
seeing Glaine naked? Answer only when she would swim or
get a massage Menager? And that swimming you mentioned earlier
skinny dipping? Answer correct, Menager. And I think you said
(05:52):
perhaps some other time that you saw her jump off
a dock and swim. Answer correct, yes Menager in the
nude Answer yes, Manager. And then you saw her under
a towel during massages? Answer yes? Man. Is there any
other time you recall seeing Gleane Maxwell naked? Answer no, Menager,
is there anything else about that telephone conference with the
(06:14):
attorneys to clarify that you recall the topics? Answer? No, Manager,
All right, thank you. I think we can go off
the record now, and when they come back, it's Sigared
McCauley now recrossing. You'll want to show Berg, so let's
get right to it. McCauley, Johanna, I'm going to ask
you a couple of questions and their follow up questions.
When Laura was talking to you, she mentioned some names
(06:36):
of famous people that you most of which you had
not met. Did you ever meet anybody famous when you
were with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer Michael Jackson. McCauley, Oh really,
and where was that? Answer at his house in pom Beach.
At Jeffrey's house in Palm Beach McCauley, did you massage them? Answer?
I did not, McCauley. Anybody else you remember? I know
(06:58):
you mentioned David Copperfield earlier. Anybody else? Answer no, I'd
remember that, McCauley. I believe you also testified that you
had never had a massage before you started working with
Jeffrey and Golaine. Is that correct? Answer? I don't recall
having a massage before then, McCauley. And I think you
said on the first day when you were doing the
(07:18):
clerical work, Maxwell mentioned that you might be able to
get a massage. Is that correct? Answer yes, McCauley. Did
you tell Maxwell that you had never had a massage
at that point? Answer I don't remember. McCauley. Did you
remember telling Jeffrey that you had never had a massage?
Answer no, McCauley. And then when you were talking about
(07:40):
the massage, the first massage, when you were being in
the room with Jeffrey and Emmy Answer uh huh, McCauley.
And I know you said that Emmy was naked or
took off her clothes at some point. Answer uh huh, McCauley.
And then you laid on the table and then you
changed positions with her. Is that what happened? Answer yes,
I don't remember the sequence, but at one point she
(08:01):
was I was, and Jeffrey was McCauley. And in the
time when there was a changeover, for example, when you're
on the table and Emmy is not on the table
and Jeffrey is not on the table, did Emmy at
that point remain naked or did she actually stop and
get dressed and continue massaging. Answer. I don't recall her
getting dressed, but I would probably remember if she massaged naked. McCauley.
(08:26):
Do you know if Jeffrey remain naked during his massage? Answer?
He was never like naked standing up. He always covered
himself with a towel. McCauley. I believe I asked this,
but I just want to clarify to make sure that
I did. Did Maxwell ever ask you to bring other
girls over to or for Jeffrey? Answer yes, McCauley. Yes.
(08:47):
Answer yes McCauley. And what did you did you do anything?
In response to that answer, I did bring one girl
named no redacted. It was some girl named redacted that
I had worked with at a restaurant, and I recall
Glane giving me money to bring her over. However, they
never called her to come McCauley. And then I believe
(09:09):
you mentioned that one of your physical fitness instructors you
brought a physical fitness instructor. Was that correct? Correct McCauley.
And what did she do? Answer? She gave him like
a training session twice McCauley. Twice. Did anything sexual in
nature happen during the session. Answer At one point he
(09:29):
lifted up her shirt and exposed her bra and she
grabbed it and pulled it down. McCauley. Anything else. Answer,
That was the conversation that he had told her that
he had taken this girl's virginity, the girl by the pool. McCauley. Okay,
did Maxwell ever say to you that it takes the
pressure off of her to have other girls around? Answer?
(09:50):
She implied that yes, McCauley. In what way? Answer sexually? McCauley.
And earlier Laura asked you, I believe if Maxwell we'll
ever ask you to perform any sexual acts, and I
believe your testimony was no. But then you also previously
stated that during the camera incident that Maxwell had talked
to you about not finishing the job. Did you understand
(10:13):
not finishing the job meaning bringing Jeffrey to orgasm? Menager
objection leading in form McCauley, I'm sorry, Johanna, let me
correct that question. What did you understand Maxwell to mean
when she said you hadn't finished the job with respect
to the camera manager objection leading in form? Answer? She
implied that I had not brought him to orgasm. McCauley,
(10:35):
So is it fair to say that Maxwell expected you
to perform sexual acts when you were massaging Jeffrey Manager Objection,
Leading Form and Foundation, Johanna, I can answer yes. I
took that conversation to mean that it was expected of me. McCauley.
And then you mentioned, I believe when you were testifying
(10:57):
earlier that Jeffrey told you a story about set on
the plane. What was that about, Menager objection Hearsay Shoberg.
He told me one time Emmy was sleeping on the
plane and they were getting ready to land, and he
went up and woke her up, and she thought that
he meant he wanted a blowjob, so she started done
zip his pants, and he said, no, no, no, no, no,
(11:19):
you just have to be awake for the landing. McCauley.
Do you recall witnessing any sexual acts on the plane,
Answer no, McCauley. Did Emmy ever talk to you about
performing sexual acts on the plane, answer no, McCauley. We
looked earlier at the police report, and I just want
to clarify you identified some areas where there were discrepancies
(11:39):
in that report, and you can take another look at
it if you want. But other than the discrepancies you
pointed out. Is that a recollection of what you remember
telling the detective? Answer yes, menager objection outside the scope
of cross McCauley, you mentioned that there was a time
when you noticed that Maxwell was around a little bit less.
(12:00):
Answer Uh huh McCauley. And I believe you said that
was during the middle of the time you were with Jeffrey.
Do you remember approximately when that was your wise? Answer?
I don't. I would say it was probably some time
between two thousand and three and two thousand and four. McCauley.
And what made you think that? Answer? I just saw
her less and less at the house McCauley. Were you
(12:22):
there more at the house during that time period? Answer no,
not necessarily. It's just at the beginning she was around
a lot, and then I would see her occasionally without him,
though one time we spent a few days together in
two thousand and six, she wasn't there at all. McCauley.
So you saw her in the Is it fair to
say that you saw her in the two thousand and
(12:42):
five two thousand and six timeframe. Answer yes, McCauley. Then
we were talking about the photography earlier. About the photographs,
did Maxwell ever ask you to take nude photos of
yourself for Jeffrey. Answer, she asked me to take photos
of myself for Jeffrey. Yes, McCauley. And did you do that? Answer?
I did not. McCauley. And the photos that were around
(13:04):
that were in the bathroom that you mentioned a couple
of times places that were photos of view, who took those? Answer?
He did, McCauley. And you were talking about the Palm
Beach House and describing an area where there were just
a lot of photographs. Is it fair to say that
there could have been nude photographs amongst those photos that
you saw? Answer? Yes, All right, folks, We're gonna wrap
(13:26):
this one up right here, and in the next episode
we'll pick up where we left off. All of the
information that goes with this episode can be found in
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
the Epstein Chronicles. We're gonna pick up where we left
off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition, So let's just get
(13:46):
right back to it. McCauley. And earlier you testified that
you don't have any knowledge of what happened behind closed doors,
but you also said that Jeffrey had told you what
other girls did for him, and that he wanted you
to do those things. Forum. Is it fair to say
that you knew that other girls were performing sexual acts?
Answer yes, Menager, objection, foundation and form. McCauley, and I
(14:12):
know you mentioned previously that your relationship and interaction with
them progressed over time. Did there come a time when
you were expected to have sexual intercourse with Jeffrey? Answer yes, McCauley.
And when was that? Answer two thousand and five. McCauley.
That's it. I just do want to also put on
the record that were designating the testimony as confidential under
(14:35):
the protective order. Further examination by Mismanager. Menager, Okay, you
just testified that you have knowledge, You had knowledge that
of what Jeffrey was doing behind closed doors with other girls.
Was that your testimony? Answer based on what he had
told me? Menager? Okay, So Jeffrey told you things that
(14:56):
he had done with other girls. Answer yes, Manager, you
did not any of those things. Answer no, Manager, you
did not talk to any of those girls about what
they had done with Jeffrey behind closed doors. McAuley objection,
Menager correct, answer correct, Menager. The only source of knowledge
you have is based on what Jeffrey told you he
(15:17):
had done with other girls. Answer correct to this McCauley objects, Menager,
you said that there were possibly nude photos amongst the
other photos that you saw on various walls at the
Palm Beach House. Correct answer correct, Menager, none of them
appeared pornographic. Answer no, Menager, you didn't see any fully
frontally nude photographs. Correct answer no, not that I recall, Menager.
(15:41):
And you don't recall seeing any girls that appeared to
be underage? Correct answer no. Manager, You said Golaine asked
you to take photos of yourself for Jeffrey. Correct answer correct, Menager.
Did she ask you to take any nude photographs for
yourself or just a photograph of yourself? Answer? A nude
photograph of myself? Manager, What exactly did she say to you? Answer?
(16:04):
I don't remember exactly, but I know that I never
felt comfortable. I would have felt fine taking photos of
myself my face, but I knew I was never comfortable
with it because I had to take photos of my body,
and I also didn't know how to take a photo
from standing behind. You have to have someone else involved, Menager.
That's my question. How would you take a nude photograph
(16:25):
of yourself? Answer exactly, someone else would have to do it. Manager.
Do you recall any of the particulars of what she
said to you that led you to believe she wanted
you to do that? Answer? No, just asking for the photos. Manager.
Do you know when in your time there? Answer it
was near the beginning, because that's when I was interested
(16:47):
in the photography. Manager. Was it in the context of
your discussion of your photography class? Answer no, Manager, Was
it in the context of anything. Answer about the camera
she had bought for me? Manager, What did she say
in relationship to the camera that she bought for you
and taking photographs of you? Answer just that Jeffrey would
(17:08):
like to have some photos of me, and she asked
me to take photos of myself. Manager. What did you say? Answer?
I don't remember saying no, but I never ended up
following through. I think I tried once. Manager, this was
the pre selfie era. Correct answer exactly, Manager, I want
to go back to this. You testify to two things
(17:29):
just now with Sigared that you said were implied to you.
Answer okay, Maxwell. The first one was it would take
pressure off of Maxwell to have more girls around. Answer right, Menager.
What exactly did Maxwell say to you that led you
to believe that was her implication? Answer she said she
doesn't have the time or the desire to pleasure him
(17:51):
as much as he needs, and that's why there were
other girls around. Manager. And did she refer specifically to
any of the other girls, answer no, Manager. Did she
talk about underage girls? Answer no, manager. Was she talking
about massage therapists? Answer not specifically, menager? Okay, there were
(18:12):
other girls in the house that were not massage therapists.
Correct answer, yes, menager. Nadia is another person that was around.
Correct answer yes, Manager. There were other people she traveled
with answer uh huh. McCauley objection, manager, correct answer correct, menager,
other girls answer yes manager. Adult answer yes, manager. When
(18:37):
I say girl, I really mean woman. Correct answer correct, Menager.
There were other women around who hung out with Jeffrey,
and you don't know what they did behind closed doors.
Correct answer correct. Manager. So when you heard the implications
that she wanted other girls around to take the pressure
off of her sexually, in your mind, that meant other
(18:58):
adult women that she had in her life. Correct McCauley objection,
witness correct doing what I was expected to do in
a massage, you know, Menager, and Golane didn't have anything
to do with you bringing this woman over for a
physical workout with Jeffrey. Correct answer correct, Manager, She asked
you to bring another girl to be to perform massages
(19:20):
at the home. Answer yes, Well, she was always asking
if I knew anyone else, and so I brought this
one girl that I didn't even know. I worked with
her at a restaurant, so I didn't care what she
thought of me, if anything happened, and so, but it
never turned into anything. Manager, She was an adult. Answer
she was an adult manager working at a restaurant with you.
(19:43):
Answer yes, manager, what restaurant was that. Answer it's a
restaurant that's closed. It's called redacted. Menager. You were asked
about the famous people you said you met. Michael Jackson.
Answer yes, Manager, but you did not give him a massage.
Answer No, there were other famous people perhaps who were
around Jeffrey's home that you didn't meet. Correct answer correct, Menager.
(20:08):
Do you know whether Virginia Roberts has told the truth
about the age she was when she met Glen Maxwell McCauley.
Objection exceeds scope of the cross the witness, I don't
have any idea what she told them in terms of
her age, Menager, do you know if Virginia Roberts is
telling the truth about whether she spent her sweet sixteenth
birthday with Jeffrey and Glen Maxwell. McCauley objection, Schoeberg, I
(20:31):
don't know anything about that, Menager. Do you know whether
Virginia Roberts is telling the truth about whether Glenn Maxwell
sexually assaulted her on her first day on the job.
McCauley objection, Shoeberg, I have no knowledge of that, Menager.
Do you have any knowledge of whether Virginia is telling
the truth about Virginia excuse me about Glenn Maxwell forcing
(20:52):
Virginia Roberts to go down on her. McCauley objection, Witness
no knowledge, Menager. Do you have any knowledge about weather
Virginia Robert Berts is telling the truth about whether Glenn
Maxwell forced her to participate in orgies with other women.
Miss McCauley objection, Witness no manager. Do you have any
knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is telling the truth about
(21:14):
whether Glenn Maxwell directed her to have sex with Prince Andrew.
Miss McCauley objection, Witness no, only based on what I've
read in the media. Manager and Alan Dershowitz. McCauley objection,
witness the same manager, Prime Ministers. McCauley objection. Shoburg, no manager.
(21:35):
Do you have any knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is
telling the truth about foreign presidents? Ms McCauley objection the
witness no knowledge. Manager. Do you know whether Virginia Roberts
is telling the truth about Glenn Maxwell forcing her to
participate in an orgy with Prince Andrew and other underage
girls on the island. McCauley objection, Witness no knowledge. Manager.
(21:58):
Did Glean Maxwell ever ask you to have her baby?
McCauley objection show Burg no manager, No further questions. McCauley,
thank you for your time. We are done, McCauley. We
are off the record. Videographer. The time is one to eleven.
This concludes the video deposition. Off the record, all right, folks.
So that's going to conclude our look at the Johanna
(22:21):
Schoberg deposition. And obviously with all the documents that are
dumping and have been dumped, we have our work cut
out for us. So like when you're eating any elephant,
you just got to eat it one bite that at
a time. And that's what we're going to continue to do.
We'll continue to add these documents to the catalog so
that they're available to you all and so that all
(22:41):
of you have the context that's necessary to understand what
in the hell happened here and what in the hell
is still happening here. All right, folks, that's gonna do
it for this one. All of the information that goes
with this episode can be found in the description box.
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
We left off with Menager asking questions about the interview
with Wendy Lee, So we're going to pick up right there. Manager.
Do you know whether the police were recording their interview
with you? Answer yes, Manager, Have you ever heard the recording?
Answer no? Manager. Did you ever receive notification that you
(00:24):
were named as a victim in any of Jeffrey Epstein's
criminal cases? Answer no, Manager, other than the fifteen hundred
from Wendy Lee. Did you receive any other money for
making any statements? Answer no? Manager. Did you give an
interview to Virginia's attorneys? Answer yes, McCauley, you can say, yes, manager.
(00:45):
When was that? Answer two weeks ago? Roughly? Manager? And
who was present during that meeting? Answer my lawyers and
several others? Manager, several other what? Answer lawyers? I don't know.
I don't know who they all are. Manager. So soll McCauley,
you recall being there? Answer yes, Manager, mis Schultz, you
recall being there? Answer no, I didn't learn it. No,
(01:08):
you weren't there. Next question Brad Edwards. Edwards's answers yes,
Next one, Paul Cassell answer maybe I don't remember, Manager,
And was that interview recorded? Answer? I don't know, it
may have been, I don't remember. Manager. Did anyone ask
your permission to record it? Answer? Maybe, I don't recall. Manager.
(01:29):
Were you shown any documents during that meeting? Answer flight logs, Manager,
any other documents? Answer? No, Manager. What did miss McCauley
or mister Edwards or any of the other lawyers say
to you about Glenn Maxwell? Answer they just asked impressions.
They never said anything about her. Manager. Were you shown
a copy of any report that came out of the interview?
(01:52):
Answer which interview? Manager, the one with Virginia's attorneys McCauley
objection Shoberg. No, you testified earlier about an incident with
a camera that Glen Maxwell had given you. I want
to ask you some questions about that. Answer sure, Manager,
Do you know when that was? Answer? That was in
(02:12):
two thousand and two? Manager, And why does that date
stick out? Answer because I was living Where I was
living specifically, and where I had the phone call. Manager.
Tell me what you remember about the conversation. Answer. I
had been over to the house prior messaging Jeffrey, and
I got a phone call from her. And she told
me she had a camera for me for my photography class,
(02:34):
But yet she couldn't give it to me yet because
during the massage, I didn't finish my job and she
had to finish it for me. Manager. Did she say
what she meant? Answer? No, but I knew. Manager. Was
there any other time that you had discussed with her
finishing your job? Answer not that I recall, Manager, any
(02:55):
other time. You just recalled discussing with her anything about
your sexual contact with Jeffrey mcaulay. Objection witness No, Manager,
did she give you the camera? Answer? I did get
the camera. Manager, Okay, when did she give you the camera? Answer?
I guess the next time I went to the house
manager And what was said at that time? Answer? I
(03:18):
honestly don't know that she handed it to me. I
remember it being there for me. Manager. What kind of
camera was it? Answer A Canon rebel thirty five millimeter? Manager.
Do you still have it? Answer? I do not. No
one uses thirty five millimeter anymore. Manager, what's that? Answer?
No one uses thirty five millimeter anymore. Manager, Back to
(03:39):
the cell phone conversation. Answer right, Manager, was it your birthday? Answer?
It was just I was taking a photography class and
I needed a camera. Manager. Do you know her to
be a photographer? Answer not a professional, but I knew
she was interested in photography. Manager. Did you see her
with the camera? Answer yes? Did you see her taking
(04:01):
photographs of nude people? Answer no, manager. Manager, did she
ever ask you to take a photograph of a semi
clad or naked? Answer? Did she ever ask to take
a photo of me? Manager? Semi clad or naked? Answer? No? Manager.
Did she ever ask to take a photograph of you
at any point? Answer? I don't remember, Menager, did you
(04:23):
tell anyone else about this conversation? You couldn't give it
to me now because I hadn't finished my job? Answer no, Manager.
I think I'm going to reserve the rest of my
time for recross, so you all, I guess ken take
a break, mister Lewis, Can I have one second? Manager, Sure, McCauley,
we can go off the record, videographer off the record.
(04:45):
At twelve oh nine. After the recess, they come back
and it looks like Menager has some more questions. Menager, sorry,
just a couple more questions. It sounds like there may
have been an additional telephone conference that one mic construe
as a meeting with attorney. Is that true? Answer correct? Menager?
All right, tell me about that answer. They just wanted
(05:06):
to We had met Pryor and they just wanted to
clarify a few things and ask a few more questions. Menager, Okay,
what did they clarify? Answer any other specific times that
I had, you know, seen Galaine naked, or if I had,
you know, had any sexual massages with her, any type
of questions like that? Menainger? Okay, And what did you
tell them about having any sexual massages with Glaine? Answer
(05:30):
that I was not asked to do to perform anything
with her, Menager? And you did not, answer correct, Menager.
And what did you tell them about specific times of
seeing Glaine naked? Answer only when she would swim or
get a massage Menager? And that swimming you mentioned earlier
skinny dipping? Answer correct, Menager. And I think you said
(05:52):
perhaps some other time that you saw her jump off
a dock and swim. Answer correct, yes Menager in the
nude Answer yes, Manager. And then you saw her under
a towel during massages? Answer yes? Man. Is there any
other time you recall seeing Gleane Maxwell naked? Answer no, Menager,
is there anything else about that telephone conference with the
(06:14):
attorneys to clarify that you recall the topics? Answer? No, Manager,
All right, thank you. I think we can go off
the record now, and when they come back, it's Sigared
McCauley now recrossing. You'll want to show Berg, so let's
get right to it. McCauley, Johanna, I'm going to ask
you a couple of questions and their follow up questions.
When Laura was talking to you, she mentioned some names
(06:36):
of famous people that you most of which you had
not met. Did you ever meet anybody famous when you
were with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer Michael Jackson. McCauley, Oh really,
and where was that? Answer at his house in pom Beach.
At Jeffrey's house in Palm Beach McCauley, did you massage them? Answer?
I did not, McCauley. Anybody else you remember? I know
(06:58):
you mentioned David Copperfield earlier. Anybody else? Answer no, I'd
remember that, McCauley. I believe you also testified that you
had never had a massage before you started working with
Jeffrey and Golaine. Is that correct? Answer? I don't recall
having a massage before then, McCauley. And I think you
said on the first day when you were doing the
(07:18):
clerical work, Maxwell mentioned that you might be able to
get a massage. Is that correct? Answer yes, McCauley. Did
you tell Maxwell that you had never had a massage
at that point? Answer I don't remember. McCauley. Did you
remember telling Jeffrey that you had never had a massage?
Answer no, McCauley. And then when you were talking about
(07:40):
the massage, the first massage, when you were being in
the room with Jeffrey and Emmy Answer uh huh, McCauley.
And I know you said that Emmy was naked or
took off her clothes at some point. Answer uh huh, McCauley.
And then you laid on the table and then you
changed positions with her. Is that what happened? Answer yes,
I don't remember the sequence, but at one point she
(08:01):
was I was, and Jeffrey was McCauley. And in the
time when there was a changeover, for example, when you're
on the table and Emmy is not on the table
and Jeffrey is not on the table, did Emmy at
that point remain naked or did she actually stop and
get dressed and continue massaging. Answer. I don't recall her
getting dressed, but I would probably remember if she massaged naked. McCauley.
(08:26):
Do you know if Jeffrey remain naked during his massage? Answer?
He was never like naked standing up. He always covered
himself with a towel. McCauley. I believe I asked this,
but I just want to clarify to make sure that
I did. Did Maxwell ever ask you to bring other
girls over to or for Jeffrey? Answer yes, McCauley. Yes.
(08:47):
Answer yes McCauley. And what did you did you do anything?
In response to that answer, I did bring one girl
named no redacted. It was some girl named redacted that
I had worked with at a restaurant, and I recall
Glane giving me money to bring her over. However, they
never called her to come McCauley. And then I believe
(09:09):
you mentioned that one of your physical fitness instructors you
brought a physical fitness instructor. Was that correct? Correct McCauley.
And what did she do? Answer? She gave him like
a training session twice McCauley. Twice. Did anything sexual in
nature happen during the session. Answer At one point he
(09:29):
lifted up her shirt and exposed her bra and she
grabbed it and pulled it down. McCauley. Anything else. Answer,
That was the conversation that he had told her that
he had taken this girl's virginity, the girl by the pool. McCauley. Okay,
did Maxwell ever say to you that it takes the
pressure off of her to have other girls around? Answer?
(09:50):
She implied that yes, McCauley. In what way? Answer sexually? McCauley.
And earlier Laura asked you, I believe if Maxwell we'll
ever ask you to perform any sexual acts, and I
believe your testimony was no. But then you also previously
stated that during the camera incident that Maxwell had talked
to you about not finishing the job. Did you understand
(10:13):
not finishing the job meaning bringing Jeffrey to orgasm? Menager
objection leading in form McCauley, I'm sorry, Johanna, let me
correct that question. What did you understand Maxwell to mean
when she said you hadn't finished the job with respect
to the camera manager objection leading in form? Answer? She
implied that I had not brought him to orgasm. McCauley,
(10:35):
So is it fair to say that Maxwell expected you
to perform sexual acts when you were massaging Jeffrey Manager Objection,
Leading Form and Foundation, Johanna, I can answer yes. I
took that conversation to mean that it was expected of me. McCauley.
And then you mentioned, I believe when you were testifying
(10:57):
earlier that Jeffrey told you a story about set on
the plane. What was that about, Menager objection Hearsay Shoberg.
He told me one time Emmy was sleeping on the
plane and they were getting ready to land, and he
went up and woke her up, and she thought that
he meant he wanted a blowjob, so she started done
zip his pants, and he said, no, no, no, no, no,
(11:19):
you just have to be awake for the landing. McCauley.
Do you recall witnessing any sexual acts on the plane,
Answer no, McCauley. Did Emmy ever talk to you about
performing sexual acts on the plane, answer no, McCauley. We
looked earlier at the police report, and I just want
to clarify you identified some areas where there were discrepancies
(11:39):
in that report, and you can take another look at
it if you want. But other than the discrepancies you
pointed out. Is that a recollection of what you remember
telling the detective? Answer yes, menager objection outside the scope
of cross McCauley, you mentioned that there was a time
when you noticed that Maxwell was around a little bit less.
(12:00):
Answer Uh huh McCauley. And I believe you said that
was during the middle of the time you were with Jeffrey.
Do you remember approximately when that was your wise? Answer?
I don't. I would say it was probably some time
between two thousand and three and two thousand and four. McCauley.
And what made you think that? Answer? I just saw
her less and less at the house McCauley. Were you
(12:22):
there more at the house during that time period? Answer no,
not necessarily. It's just at the beginning she was around
a lot, and then I would see her occasionally without him,
though one time we spent a few days together in
two thousand and six, she wasn't there at all. McCauley.
So you saw her in the Is it fair to
say that you saw her in the two thousand and
(12:42):
five two thousand and six timeframe. Answer yes, McCauley. Then
we were talking about the photography earlier. About the photographs,
did Maxwell ever ask you to take nude photos of
yourself for Jeffrey. Answer, she asked me to take photos
of myself for Jeffrey. Yes, McCauley. And did you do that? Answer?
I did not. McCauley. And the photos that were around
(13:04):
that were in the bathroom that you mentioned a couple
of times places that were photos of view, who took those? Answer?
He did, McCauley. And you were talking about the Palm
Beach House and describing an area where there were just
a lot of photographs. Is it fair to say that
there could have been nude photographs amongst those photos that
you saw? Answer? Yes, All right, folks, We're gonna wrap
(13:26):
this one up right here, and in the next episode
we'll pick up where we left off. All of the
information that goes with this episode can be found in
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back to
the Epstein Chronicles. We're gonna pick up where we left
off with the Johanna Schoberg deposition, So let's just get
(13:46):
right back to it. McCauley. And earlier you testified that
you don't have any knowledge of what happened behind closed doors,
but you also said that Jeffrey had told you what
other girls did for him, and that he wanted you
to do those things. Forum. Is it fair to say
that you knew that other girls were performing sexual acts?
Answer yes, Menager, objection, foundation and form. McCauley, and I
(14:12):
know you mentioned previously that your relationship and interaction with
them progressed over time. Did there come a time when
you were expected to have sexual intercourse with Jeffrey? Answer yes, McCauley.
And when was that? Answer two thousand and five. McCauley.
That's it. I just do want to also put on
the record that were designating the testimony as confidential under
(14:35):
the protective order. Further examination by Mismanager. Menager, Okay, you
just testified that you have knowledge, You had knowledge that
of what Jeffrey was doing behind closed doors with other girls.
Was that your testimony? Answer based on what he had
told me? Menager? Okay, So Jeffrey told you things that
(14:56):
he had done with other girls. Answer yes, Manager, you
did not any of those things. Answer no, Manager, you
did not talk to any of those girls about what
they had done with Jeffrey behind closed doors. McAuley objection,
Menager correct, answer correct, Menager. The only source of knowledge
you have is based on what Jeffrey told you he
(15:17):
had done with other girls. Answer correct to this McCauley objects, Menager,
you said that there were possibly nude photos amongst the
other photos that you saw on various walls at the
Palm Beach House. Correct answer correct, Menager, none of them
appeared pornographic. Answer no, Menager, you didn't see any fully
frontally nude photographs. Correct answer no, not that I recall, Menager.
(15:41):
And you don't recall seeing any girls that appeared to
be underage? Correct answer no. Manager, You said Golaine asked
you to take photos of yourself for Jeffrey. Correct answer correct, Menager.
Did she ask you to take any nude photographs for
yourself or just a photograph of yourself? Answer? A nude
photograph of myself? Manager, What exactly did she say to you? Answer?
(16:04):
I don't remember exactly, but I know that I never
felt comfortable. I would have felt fine taking photos of
myself my face, but I knew I was never comfortable
with it because I had to take photos of my body,
and I also didn't know how to take a photo
from standing behind. You have to have someone else involved, Menager.
That's my question. How would you take a nude photograph
(16:25):
of yourself? Answer exactly, someone else would have to do it. Manager.
Do you recall any of the particulars of what she
said to you that led you to believe she wanted
you to do that? Answer? No, just asking for the photos. Manager.
Do you know when in your time there? Answer it
was near the beginning, because that's when I was interested
(16:47):
in the photography. Manager. Was it in the context of
your discussion of your photography class? Answer no, Manager, Was
it in the context of anything. Answer about the camera
she had bought for me? Manager, What did she say
in relationship to the camera that she bought for you
and taking photographs of you? Answer just that Jeffrey would
(17:08):
like to have some photos of me, and she asked
me to take photos of myself. Manager. What did you say? Answer?
I don't remember saying no, but I never ended up
following through. I think I tried once. Manager, this was
the pre selfie era. Correct answer exactly, Manager, I want
to go back to this. You testify to two things
(17:29):
just now with Sigared that you said were implied to you.
Answer okay, Maxwell. The first one was it would take
pressure off of Maxwell to have more girls around. Answer right, Menager.
What exactly did Maxwell say to you that led you
to believe that was her implication? Answer she said she
doesn't have the time or the desire to pleasure him
(17:51):
as much as he needs, and that's why there were
other girls around. Manager. And did she refer specifically to
any of the other girls, answer no, Manager. Did she
talk about underage girls? Answer no, manager. Was she talking
about massage therapists? Answer not specifically, menager? Okay, there were
(18:12):
other girls in the house that were not massage therapists.
Correct answer, yes, menager. Nadia is another person that was around.
Correct answer yes, Manager. There were other people she traveled
with answer uh huh. McCauley objection, manager, correct answer correct, menager,
other girls answer yes manager. Adult answer yes, manager. When
(18:37):
I say girl, I really mean woman. Correct answer correct, Menager.
There were other women around who hung out with Jeffrey,
and you don't know what they did behind closed doors.
Correct answer correct. Manager. So when you heard the implications
that she wanted other girls around to take the pressure
off of her sexually, in your mind, that meant other
(18:58):
adult women that she had in her life. Correct McCauley objection,
witness correct doing what I was expected to do in
a massage, you know, Menager, and Golane didn't have anything
to do with you bringing this woman over for a
physical workout with Jeffrey. Correct answer correct, Manager, She asked
you to bring another girl to be to perform massages
(19:20):
at the home. Answer yes, Well, she was always asking
if I knew anyone else, and so I brought this
one girl that I didn't even know. I worked with
her at a restaurant, so I didn't care what she
thought of me, if anything happened, and so, but it
never turned into anything. Manager, She was an adult. Answer
she was an adult manager working at a restaurant with you.
(19:43):
Answer yes, manager, what restaurant was that. Answer it's a
restaurant that's closed. It's called redacted. Menager. You were asked
about the famous people you said you met. Michael Jackson.
Answer yes, Manager, but you did not give him a massage.
Answer No, there were other famous people perhaps who were
around Jeffrey's home that you didn't meet. Correct answer correct, Menager.
(20:08):
Do you know whether Virginia Roberts has told the truth
about the age she was when she met Glen Maxwell McCauley.
Objection exceeds scope of the cross the witness, I don't
have any idea what she told them in terms of
her age, Menager, do you know if Virginia Roberts is
telling the truth about whether she spent her sweet sixteenth
birthday with Jeffrey and Glen Maxwell. McCauley objection, Schoeberg, I
(20:31):
don't know anything about that, Menager. Do you know whether
Virginia Roberts is telling the truth about whether Glenn Maxwell
sexually assaulted her on her first day on the job.
McCauley objection, Shoeberg, I have no knowledge of that, Menager.
Do you have any knowledge of whether Virginia is telling
the truth about Virginia excuse me about Glenn Maxwell forcing
(20:52):
Virginia Roberts to go down on her. McCauley objection, Witness
no knowledge, Menager. Do you have any knowledge about weather
Virginia Robert Berts is telling the truth about whether Glenn
Maxwell forced her to participate in orgies with other women.
Miss McCauley objection, Witness no manager. Do you have any
knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is telling the truth about
(21:14):
whether Glenn Maxwell directed her to have sex with Prince Andrew.
Miss McCauley objection, Witness no, only based on what I've
read in the media. Manager and Alan Dershowitz. McCauley objection,
witness the same manager, Prime Ministers. McCauley objection. Shoburg, no manager.
(21:35):
Do you have any knowledge about whether Virginia Roberts is
telling the truth about foreign presidents? Ms McCauley objection the
witness no knowledge. Manager. Do you know whether Virginia Roberts
is telling the truth about Glenn Maxwell forcing her to
participate in an orgy with Prince Andrew and other underage
girls on the island. McCauley objection, Witness no knowledge. Manager.
(21:58):
Did Glean Maxwell ever ask you to have her baby?
McCauley objection show Burg no manager, No further questions. McCauley,
thank you for your time. We are done, McCauley. We
are off the record. Videographer. The time is one to eleven.
This concludes the video deposition. Off the record, all right, folks.
So that's going to conclude our look at the Johanna
(22:21):
Schoberg deposition. And obviously with all the documents that are
dumping and have been dumped, we have our work cut
out for us. So like when you're eating any elephant,
you just got to eat it one bite that at
a time. And that's what we're going to continue to do.
We'll continue to add these documents to the catalog so
that they're available to you all and so that all
(22:41):
of you have the context that's necessary to understand what
in the hell happened here and what in the hell
is still happening here. All right, folks, that's gonna do
it for this one. All of the information that goes
with this episode can be found in the description box.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.