December 28, 2025 • 21 mins
Legal analysts have long noted that Ghislaine Maxwell never seriously pursued a cooperation deal in part because prosecutors had little incentive to offer one. The government’s case against Maxwell was unusually narrow and tightly framed, focusing on a defined time window, a limited number of victims, and a clean narrative of recruitment and grooming that could be proven without relying on broader conspiracy testimony. By structuring the indictment this way, prosecutors minimized risk, avoided intelligence sensitivities, and ensured a conviction without opening doors to sprawling discovery fights over Epstein’s finances, political connections, or institutional enablers. In that context, Maxwell’s value as a cooperator was sharply limited: the government already had what it needed to win.
That has fueled speculation—shared quietly by defense lawyers and former prosecutors—that Maxwell’s refusal or inability to cut a deal may have stemmed from the case being deliberately engineered to not require her to talk about the wider network. Any cooperation that meaningfully reduced her sentence would likely have required testimony implicating powerful third parties or exposing systemic failures beyond Epstein himself. Such disclosures may have been inconvenient, destabilizing, or outside the scope prosecutors wanted to litigate. As a result, Maxwell faced a stark reality: cooperate and offer information the government did not appear to want—or go to trial in a case designed to convict her alone. The outcome suggests the prosecution prioritized certainty and containment over a broader reckoning, leaving Maxwell with no off-ramp and the larger structure surrounding Epstein largely untouched.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
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That has fueled speculation—shared quietly by defense lawyers and former prosecutors—that Maxwell’s refusal or inability to cut a deal may have stemmed from the case being deliberately engineered to not require her to talk about the wider network. Any cooperation that meaningfully reduced her sentence would likely have required testimony implicating powerful third parties or exposing systemic failures beyond Epstein himself. Such disclosures may have been inconvenient, destabilizing, or outside the scope prosecutors wanted to litigate. As a result, Maxwell faced a stark reality: cooperate and offer information the government did not appear to want—or go to trial in a case designed to convict her alone. The outcome suggests the prosecution prioritized certainty and containment over a broader reckoning, leaving Maxwell with no off-ramp and the larger structure surrounding Epstein largely untouched.
to contact me:
bobbycapucci@protonmail.com
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. So it's the day
after Glaine Maxwell has been sentenced to twenty years in prison,
and already people are talking about how she should start
naming names to try and shave some time off this sentence. Now,
it certainly is a viable strategy to try and shave
(00:22):
a few years off give up some of your former associates,
but usually that occurs before a trial. Now, if Glaine
Maxwell starts giving people up, their defense team can easily
say that she is a broken witness. She is somebody
who is there only to try and get herself a
(00:43):
less amount of time. That's why I don't know if
this strategy is going to be the way to go
for In this article we're about to read, a lawyer
is saying that Glaine Maxwell should start naming some names
to get years shaved off this sentence. But the question becomes,
(01:04):
what does she have left to give up? Now, we
all know that there were a ton of participants as
far as people going to the island, people going to
New Mexico, people going to the townhouse in New York
or in Florida. And we know that Glenn Maxwell has
a lot of information about all of that, But what
(01:25):
is she going to give up to get years shaved off?
That becomes the question, And it's a juicy one, isn't it.
It goes back to the heart of the whole, entire
clientless conversation. Now that Glenn Maxwell has been convicted, I
feel like that's the conversation we should start having now.
(01:46):
Who are some of the other participants. Who are some
of the other people who are on this stage who
are engaging in abuse and helping to facilitate this whole
entire criminal enterprise to run? And I think you have
to start with Sarah Kelln Vickers, Darren Indyke, and Richard Kahn.
Those would be the three targets that I'd be zeroing
(02:08):
in on right now if I was the prosecution, and
if Glen Maxwell can help you get there. The question
is do you shave years off of her sentence? And
for me, I don't think you do unless Maxwell can
give you somebody that's huge, a gigantor a Donald Trump,
a Bill Clinton, a Prince Andrew, a Glenn Dubin. Even
(02:32):
then maybe you discuss a few months off of her sentence,
or moving her to a more favorable spot or something
like that. But short of that, I don't know what
she could give up that would want to knock the
prosecutors off their perch. Because remember, there's a ton of
evidence already tying Sarah Kelln Vickers to this, tying Darren
Indyke to this, tying Richard Kahn to all of this.
(02:56):
And if they were serious about Indike, they could have
gotten him on structuring. Allay, you can't go make a
bunch of withdraws to beat Title thirty one the way
he did and then ask questions to the institution, the
banking institution, about how you can structure that's against the law.
But nothing happened, right I can tell you right now,
(03:18):
if I was going to the bank and structuring, I
guarantee you the FEDS would have came down on me
like a goddamn bag of bricks. I had to keep
an eye out for this sort of thing at work
all the time at the sports book. Structuring's a big
deal because it means people are manipulating and they're trying
to avoid the paperwork. And if people are trying to
(03:40):
avoid the paper trail, well usually they're up to no good, right,
So they could have gotten Indike already on all of
this con I'm sure they could have come up with something.
I mean again, if these guys were mafioso or if
they were drug dealers from you know, insert poor neighborhood here,
they would have come up with a reason to already
a rest them so they could keep them in custody,
(04:02):
and then they'd come up with the real serious charges.
But for some reason, no Vickers, no Endyke, no con
no Groth, no Adriana Ross, none of them. And we
heard an open court yesterday Judge Nathan herself saying that
Glehn Maxwell was overseeing Sarah kelln Vickers. So that sure
(04:25):
seems to me like a criminal conspiracy. No, if there's
more than two participants, well you have yourselves zu Rico
case as well. But again they didn't go that way.
So now Glenn Maxwell, with these twenty years is possibly,
according to this lawyer, anyway, gonna be looking to wheel
in deal. Now. I don't know if I believe this
(04:47):
or if I think that the prosecution will even entertain it,
but it certainly is an option, I guess, And it
really all comes down to what is she offering up.
Today's article is from Newsweek and the author of this
article is Jack Royston. Headline Kallaine Maxwell should start naming
(05:09):
names to shave years off of her sentence, and she
probably should have done this before the child. No, if
you want to go state's witness, you usually do it
before you get sentenced. Get up there, tell the authorities
everything you know, rat out all of your friends. That's
why it's called being queen for a day. Right when
you sign your profer agreement King for a day or
(05:31):
Queen for a day, you sign that deal the three
to zero two, and then anything that you have ever
done is wiped clean, all for the information you're going
to provide on your former associates, of course, And if
you sign one of these deals, then more times than not,
you get yourself a light sentence and you find yourself
(05:54):
out of prison way before any of your associates. So
it doesn't look like Maxwell went that out before this trial.
We have heard nothing about her trying to negotiate a
deal revolving around her giving up names. Glenn Maxwell should
ditch her appeal and start naming names to avoid spending
(06:16):
most of the rest of her life in jail. A
lawyer told Newsweek the British socialite you mean, human trafficker
handed a twenty year sentence by Judge Alis and Nathan
during a nearly four hour hearing where survivors gave emotional
statements about the impact of abuse by her and Jeffrey Epstein.
And look, it was a rehash of what we have
(06:40):
heard from these ladies, but it was a lot more powerful,
wasn't it. When they get up there in court like
Annie did, or when you just hear their words what
they have to say, it means a lot. And I
think that the prosecution would be doing these girls a
disservice to let Maxwell shave any more years off of
(07:00):
this sentence, like we talked about yesterday, with good time
and with time served, she's probably only gonna serve fifteen.
So that's a slap in the gut as it is right.
And to talk about shaving off more time, I mean again,
for me not to go absolutely ballistic, it would have
to be some huge, huge get I'm talking, like I said,
(07:24):
a Trump, a Clinton, a Ehud Barack, even something like that,
and maybe the discussion could happen, but it has to
be somebody who played a key part, right. It can't
just be oh, I'm gonna give up the butler. The
sentencing guidelines in Maxwell's case had an upper limit of
(07:45):
nineteen years, but Nathan went beyond the guidelines to impose
a sentence of twenty years. And with Judge Nathan, she's
not really the kind of judge that usually sentences harshly, right,
this is one of those times where I was wishing
that we'd have one of those ruthless ass jerk off
judges who sends people to prison for a million years.
(08:07):
I just read some story about some guy who hunted
homeless women on the street so he could sexually assault them,
and he just got latched with one hundred and sixty
two year stint down in Florida. So sometimes, you know,
people get waxed by these judges. Some of these judges
are pretty brutal with their sentencing. But unfortunately, in this
(08:29):
case anyway, Judge Nathan isn't that kind of judge. But
she did go above the sentencing guidelines. I will give
her that. This wasn't a light sentence, right. It wasn't
harsh by any means, but it's not what you would
call a light sentence. Anytime you have to do fifteen
twenty years behind bars, and I don't care where you're
(08:50):
doing those years. By the way, it's not a fun time. Now.
Would I prefer to see her go to like Flomax
in Colorado, the super Max. Hell yeah, but look the
fact that she's in prison. I'll take that as a victory,
right for the survivors and for society. Of course, we
(09:11):
all want more. Right, it's not the optimal punishment, but
considering that just a mere few years ago, everybody was
telling me how crazy I was to continue talking about this.
Oh now, justice is ever going to be served. People
like Maxwell and Epstein they never get any kinds of punishment.
Well guess what they did, And it might not again.
(09:34):
It might not be the most harsh punishment for Maxwell,
but it's punishment, isn't it. Nima Romani of West Coast
Child Lawyers told Newsweek Maxwell will likely be able to
get her sentence down to fifteen years through a mixture
of time already served and good behavior. And that's what
we talked about yesterday. I didn't mean to rain on
(09:55):
anybody's parade or anything like that, but as you all know,
we keep a re here on this podcast. Whatever the
truth is, whatever the evidence says, and wherever it goes,
that's where we head. And I just wanted to I
want you all to be very aware that even though
she slapped with twenty, it's probably gonna end up being fifteen.
And that's why when we were first talking, I was
(10:15):
adamant about twenty five or thirty, because you know, with
good time time served, she'll shave some of that down,
give herself a bit of a haircut, and you know,
be out here before she's truly geriatric. That means survivors
have been denied what some have asked for, a sentence
that ensures Maxwell will die in prison. And that certainly
(10:36):
is what I was looking for as well. There is
no doubt about it. That is the that would have
been the slam dunk victory, right, thirty five years, forty years?
Hell yeah, But remember, folks, a lot of things can
happen in fifteen years while you're in prison. A whole
lot of things can happen. And just because one lady
wrote her a letter about how nice she was, and
(10:58):
you know, the whole yoga teaching us yoga thing, that
doesn't mean it's going to translate and carry over to
the federal facility she ends up in. She's not looking
at a fun time no matter where she ends up. However,
Romani added that the sixty year old still faces spending
most of the rest of her life behind bars until
(11:18):
age seventy five unless she cooperates. Now that she's been sentenced,
Does she finally start cooperating because you can get a reduction.
She really should start naming names, he said. If she
finally realizes that, hey, I'm going to spend most of
the rest of my life in prison unless I start cooperating,
maybe she does. The government can come back and request
(11:40):
a reduction after the fact. Her family members have said
she won't, but you never know, and that's very interesting. Honestly. Look,
if I was to go down, say I was some
sort of scumbag like these people, and I was to
go down, and all of the other people weren't to
go down, I'd probably wrap them out too. I'm gonna
sit in a jail cell for the rest of my
(12:01):
life while you eat Cavia. I don't think so scumbag,
So I would probably be trying to work something out.
I would have tried, probably tried to work something out
prior to all of this, though, and I would have
been willing to give up everything. And if Maxwell was
truly sorry, like she said she was, she would have
done that after Epstein's first arrest if she had nothing
(12:22):
to do with it, if she was just an innocent person,
she would have came out after Epstein's first arrest and
went and sat down with the FBI and said, look,
this is everything that I know. These are all of
the people that were involved. As far as I know,
she never did any of that. She continued to benefit
from her relationship with Epstein, continued to clock all kinds
(12:44):
of dough and then when shit goes south, all of
a sudden, it's all Epstein's fault. You played no part,
Uncle Lane. Sure, okay, she could work off the fifteen
years by cooperating. She can name names, test against others.
Grand Jerry shave off significant time. Romani said, there's really
(13:05):
two very distinct paths for Gallayne Maxwell here. She either
takes her chance on appeal or she goes down the
cooperation route. It's really one or the other. Maxwell's legal
team has indicated they will appear appeal against her December
twenty twenty one conviction in an effort to force a
new trial. Now, I don't think that's going to be
a successful appeal, but you know what, who knows, who
(13:28):
knows what they'll come up with to try and get
the court to turn in their favor. But usually historically
these appeals are not successful. However, Barry Salzman, who has
previously represented twenty Epstein survivors, said her prospects for succeeding
at an appeal may be limited. Salzman, a partner at
(13:51):
Barosh McGary Salzman and Penson, told Newsweek, I don't believe
they are going to be successful on appeal. My opinion
is that I don't think they will be be any
success on the appeal. The verdict will stand and the
sentence will stand. I agree with that. I just don't
see how they think that they'll be able to appeal
this and get it knocked off. It just doesn't seem
(14:13):
like reality to me. While we're a bit disappointed the
court didn't impose a higher sentence, this sentence definitely recognizes
the severity of Maxwell's conduct, the shocking and extensive nature
of it. Salsman added, It's again less than what the
prosecutors had asked for, but it's higher than the sentencing guidelines.
(14:34):
So I thought from the beginning, like we talked about
that Max that excuse me, that Nathan would end up
splitting the baby, that she'd find a happy medium here,
because that's a sort of judge. She is right, she's
not going to impose harsh penalties, unfortunately, and that's exactly
what it ended up being. I think that that is
(14:55):
a positive. It's a stiff sentence. I wish it was more,
but I do think that it certainly will bring some
measure of justice inclosure to the survivors. Salzman said, I
would have preferred to see something more in the neighborhood
of thirty years. So twenty years for a woman in
her early sixties is still a pretty severe sentence. Look
it is. There's no doubt. I'm not gonna sit here
(15:16):
and act like you know, she got five years, twenty years,
fifteen years a significant amount of time to spend behind bars.
But again, when all's said and done, only six or
seven more than what my loved one spent in prison
for quote unquote illegal gambling, no violence, nobody hurt, nothing,
(15:38):
but you know, they didn't take his age into account.
He was in his seventies. No big deal, will throw
him in prison. He's not rich, his last name isn't Maxwell.
So that's why I was so fired up when Maxwell's
asking for that short sentence of you know, four and
a half, five and a half years, it's just straight
(15:59):
up of third And even when you know, you look
at the short time here with the fifteen it's not
optimal by any stretch. But fifteen years, twenty years is
a long time in prison. And remember, folks, a lot
of shit can happen in fifteen years, especially while you're
behind bars. Sarah Ransom, a survivor of Maxwell and Epstein,
(16:23):
did not take part in the trial, but issued a
powerful survivor impact statement at sentencing in which she outlined
two suicide attempts that she said were near fatal. Her statement,
seen by Newsweek, read, on one visit to the island,
the sexual demands, degradation and humiliation became so horrific that
I tried to escape by attempting to jump off a
(16:45):
cliff into shark infested waters, but was caught by Maxwell
and company moments before jumping. At the time, the extremely
risky escape seemed more appealing than being raped one more time.
Quoted by the BBC outside the court, Glaine must die
in prison because I've been in helen back for the
last seventeen years. That's how a lot of these survivors
(17:07):
feel and felt Glene Maxwell played a key part in
the destruction of their lives. And I don't know how
much more straightforward I could put it. We don't need
to get down, you know, and reconstruct things. Maxwell destroyed
their lives, point blank, period and in return, these survivors
(17:28):
were hoping for a life sentence for Maxwell. Now if
when she gets out eighty years old, seventy five years old,
whatever it is, life is pretty much gonna be over
for her, as she knows it. But still she's gonna
have a chance to see daylight again. She still has
that glimmer of hope every day while she's you know,
laying around in prison. And unfortunately, I you know, I
(17:52):
wish she didn't have that. But I'm not the one
dropping the sentence, right I wish I was. Unfortunately, though, folks,
I do not make the rule us. Annie Farmer, a
Maxwell survivor who testified at the trial, described her experience
in her statement this toxic combination of being sexually exposed
and exploited, feeling confused, in naive blaming myself. All resulted
(18:15):
in significant shame, that sickening feeling that makes you want
to disappear. It was not constant, but would come in waves,
similar to the waves of anxiety that would also show up.
She said. When I think back, I see a slide
show of moments when these feelings would surface and overwhelm me.
I remember sitting at my desk in a Houston hospital
(18:35):
physically shaking after seeing the photo of Maxwell with Virginia
Roberts and Prince Andrew because it became clear to me
how their scheme had continued. The time and unexpected security
screening from a TSA agent who patted down my chest
with the back of her hand left me crying and disoriented.
At the airport a fortieth birthday gathering, where I broke
(18:56):
down crying telling the story to some friends for the
first time, She continued, it was pretty powerful testimony from
the victims, particularly the ones who talked about her suicide
attempts and how she would jump into shark infested waters
to try to escape. Romani told Newsweek, and look, can
you imagine holding this all in for all of these
(19:16):
years and then sitting around with a group of your
friends that you trust, that you know, you know that'll
be there for you, and breaking down at your fortieth
birthday telling this story. Nobody should have to go through that.
And finally, for Annie, there's a little bit of justice here.
Glen Maxwell's not going to be jet setting at least
for the next fifteen or twenty, so there's that. At
(19:38):
least she's not gonna hurt anybody for the next fifteen
or twenty, so there's that at least as well. Ultimately,
I know the government wanted more. They wanted thirty years.
Judge Nathan, she's fair, but she's considered fairly liberal. She's
not a very harsh sentencer. She's not one of not
one that one of those that generally goes above the guidelines.
(20:00):
But she did in this case, and I have to
give her a little credit there right for going above
what she usually does. But still, the way that Judge
Nathan called these hainous crimes and the rest of it,
you would think that she would have just dropped the
whole last kitchen sink on Glan Maxwell. But I think
this is one of the biggest problems with our justice system. Folks,
(20:21):
The people that should be in prison for the rest
of their lives. A lot of times they avoid that,
while people who are convicted on smaller petty crimes, well,
they can't navigate the system. And what happens is they
get their first defense, then their first defense turns into
their second, and before you know it, their career criminals
because now they're in the system and it's just, you know,
(20:45):
broken in that regard. Whereas people like Maxwell, you know,
I'll get me a little reduced sentence here, a little
bit of time off there, I'll be able to have
all the greatest lawyers in the world, you know, all
of that. But the reality is this, Glane Maxwell didn't
avoid justice this time. We can debate till the cows
come home if that justice is harsh enough. But the
(21:08):
fact is when she goes to sleep tonight, when she
goes to sleep every night following tonight, for a very
long time, before she goes to sleep, she'll hear those
bars clinking and locking. And from where I'm sitting, that
certainly is a good thing. If you'd like to contact me,
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.
(21:31):
That's bo bbu y C A P. U Cci at
ProtonMail dot com. You can also find me on Twitter
at Bobby Underscore c ap u Cci. The link that
I discussed can be found in the description box. All Right, folks,
we'll be back with the
Welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. So it's the day
after Glaine Maxwell has been sentenced to twenty years in prison,
and already people are talking about how she should start
naming names to try and shave some time off this sentence. Now,
it certainly is a viable strategy to try and shave
(00:22):
a few years off give up some of your former associates,
but usually that occurs before a trial. Now, if Glaine
Maxwell starts giving people up, their defense team can easily
say that she is a broken witness. She is somebody
who is there only to try and get herself a
(00:43):
less amount of time. That's why I don't know if
this strategy is going to be the way to go
for In this article we're about to read, a lawyer
is saying that Glaine Maxwell should start naming some names
to get years shaved off this sentence. But the question becomes,
(01:04):
what does she have left to give up? Now, we
all know that there were a ton of participants as
far as people going to the island, people going to
New Mexico, people going to the townhouse in New York
or in Florida. And we know that Glenn Maxwell has
a lot of information about all of that, But what
(01:25):
is she going to give up to get years shaved off?
That becomes the question, And it's a juicy one, isn't it.
It goes back to the heart of the whole, entire
clientless conversation. Now that Glenn Maxwell has been convicted, I
feel like that's the conversation we should start having now.
(01:46):
Who are some of the other participants. Who are some
of the other people who are on this stage who
are engaging in abuse and helping to facilitate this whole
entire criminal enterprise to run? And I think you have
to start with Sarah Kelln Vickers, Darren Indyke, and Richard Kahn.
Those would be the three targets that I'd be zeroing
(02:08):
in on right now if I was the prosecution, and
if Glen Maxwell can help you get there. The question
is do you shave years off of her sentence? And
for me, I don't think you do unless Maxwell can
give you somebody that's huge, a gigantor a Donald Trump,
a Bill Clinton, a Prince Andrew, a Glenn Dubin. Even
(02:32):
then maybe you discuss a few months off of her sentence,
or moving her to a more favorable spot or something
like that. But short of that, I don't know what
she could give up that would want to knock the
prosecutors off their perch. Because remember, there's a ton of
evidence already tying Sarah Kelln Vickers to this, tying Darren
Indyke to this, tying Richard Kahn to all of this.
(02:56):
And if they were serious about Indike, they could have
gotten him on structuring. Allay, you can't go make a
bunch of withdraws to beat Title thirty one the way
he did and then ask questions to the institution, the
banking institution, about how you can structure that's against the law.
But nothing happened, right I can tell you right now,
(03:18):
if I was going to the bank and structuring, I
guarantee you the FEDS would have came down on me
like a goddamn bag of bricks. I had to keep
an eye out for this sort of thing at work
all the time at the sports book. Structuring's a big
deal because it means people are manipulating and they're trying
to avoid the paperwork. And if people are trying to
(03:40):
avoid the paper trail, well usually they're up to no good, right,
So they could have gotten Indike already on all of
this con I'm sure they could have come up with something.
I mean again, if these guys were mafioso or if
they were drug dealers from you know, insert poor neighborhood here,
they would have come up with a reason to already
a rest them so they could keep them in custody,
(04:02):
and then they'd come up with the real serious charges.
But for some reason, no Vickers, no Endyke, no con
no Groth, no Adriana Ross, none of them. And we
heard an open court yesterday Judge Nathan herself saying that
Glehn Maxwell was overseeing Sarah kelln Vickers. So that sure
(04:25):
seems to me like a criminal conspiracy. No, if there's
more than two participants, well you have yourselves zu Rico
case as well. But again they didn't go that way.
So now Glenn Maxwell, with these twenty years is possibly,
according to this lawyer, anyway, gonna be looking to wheel
in deal. Now. I don't know if I believe this
(04:47):
or if I think that the prosecution will even entertain it,
but it certainly is an option, I guess, And it
really all comes down to what is she offering up.
Today's article is from Newsweek and the author of this
article is Jack Royston. Headline Kallaine Maxwell should start naming
(05:09):
names to shave years off of her sentence, and she
probably should have done this before the child. No, if
you want to go state's witness, you usually do it
before you get sentenced. Get up there, tell the authorities
everything you know, rat out all of your friends. That's
why it's called being queen for a day. Right when
you sign your profer agreement King for a day or
(05:31):
Queen for a day, you sign that deal the three
to zero two, and then anything that you have ever
done is wiped clean, all for the information you're going
to provide on your former associates, of course, And if
you sign one of these deals, then more times than not,
you get yourself a light sentence and you find yourself
(05:54):
out of prison way before any of your associates. So
it doesn't look like Maxwell went that out before this trial.
We have heard nothing about her trying to negotiate a
deal revolving around her giving up names. Glenn Maxwell should
ditch her appeal and start naming names to avoid spending
(06:16):
most of the rest of her life in jail. A
lawyer told Newsweek the British socialite you mean, human trafficker
handed a twenty year sentence by Judge Alis and Nathan
during a nearly four hour hearing where survivors gave emotional
statements about the impact of abuse by her and Jeffrey Epstein.
And look, it was a rehash of what we have
(06:40):
heard from these ladies, but it was a lot more powerful,
wasn't it. When they get up there in court like
Annie did, or when you just hear their words what
they have to say, it means a lot. And I
think that the prosecution would be doing these girls a
disservice to let Maxwell shave any more years off of
(07:00):
this sentence, like we talked about yesterday, with good time
and with time served, she's probably only gonna serve fifteen.
So that's a slap in the gut as it is right.
And to talk about shaving off more time, I mean again,
for me not to go absolutely ballistic, it would have
to be some huge, huge get I'm talking, like I said,
(07:24):
a Trump, a Clinton, a Ehud Barack, even something like that,
and maybe the discussion could happen, but it has to
be somebody who played a key part, right. It can't
just be oh, I'm gonna give up the butler. The
sentencing guidelines in Maxwell's case had an upper limit of
(07:45):
nineteen years, but Nathan went beyond the guidelines to impose
a sentence of twenty years. And with Judge Nathan, she's
not really the kind of judge that usually sentences harshly, right,
this is one of those times where I was wishing
that we'd have one of those ruthless ass jerk off
judges who sends people to prison for a million years.
(08:07):
I just read some story about some guy who hunted
homeless women on the street so he could sexually assault them,
and he just got latched with one hundred and sixty
two year stint down in Florida. So sometimes, you know,
people get waxed by these judges. Some of these judges
are pretty brutal with their sentencing. But unfortunately, in this
(08:29):
case anyway, Judge Nathan isn't that kind of judge. But
she did go above the sentencing guidelines. I will give
her that. This wasn't a light sentence, right. It wasn't
harsh by any means, but it's not what you would
call a light sentence. Anytime you have to do fifteen
twenty years behind bars, and I don't care where you're
(08:50):
doing those years. By the way, it's not a fun time. Now.
Would I prefer to see her go to like Flomax
in Colorado, the super Max. Hell yeah, but look the
fact that she's in prison. I'll take that as a victory,
right for the survivors and for society. Of course, we
(09:11):
all want more. Right, it's not the optimal punishment, but
considering that just a mere few years ago, everybody was
telling me how crazy I was to continue talking about this.
Oh now, justice is ever going to be served. People
like Maxwell and Epstein they never get any kinds of punishment.
Well guess what they did, And it might not again.
(09:34):
It might not be the most harsh punishment for Maxwell,
but it's punishment, isn't it. Nima Romani of West Coast
Child Lawyers told Newsweek Maxwell will likely be able to
get her sentence down to fifteen years through a mixture
of time already served and good behavior. And that's what
we talked about yesterday. I didn't mean to rain on
(09:55):
anybody's parade or anything like that, but as you all know,
we keep a re here on this podcast. Whatever the
truth is, whatever the evidence says, and wherever it goes,
that's where we head. And I just wanted to I
want you all to be very aware that even though
she slapped with twenty, it's probably gonna end up being fifteen.
And that's why when we were first talking, I was
(10:15):
adamant about twenty five or thirty, because you know, with
good time time served, she'll shave some of that down,
give herself a bit of a haircut, and you know,
be out here before she's truly geriatric. That means survivors
have been denied what some have asked for, a sentence
that ensures Maxwell will die in prison. And that certainly
(10:36):
is what I was looking for as well. There is
no doubt about it. That is the that would have
been the slam dunk victory, right, thirty five years, forty years?
Hell yeah, But remember, folks, a lot of things can
happen in fifteen years while you're in prison. A whole
lot of things can happen. And just because one lady
wrote her a letter about how nice she was, and
(10:58):
you know, the whole yoga teaching us yoga thing, that
doesn't mean it's going to translate and carry over to
the federal facility she ends up in. She's not looking
at a fun time no matter where she ends up. However,
Romani added that the sixty year old still faces spending
most of the rest of her life behind bars until
(11:18):
age seventy five unless she cooperates. Now that she's been sentenced,
Does she finally start cooperating because you can get a reduction.
She really should start naming names, he said. If she
finally realizes that, hey, I'm going to spend most of
the rest of my life in prison unless I start cooperating,
maybe she does. The government can come back and request
(11:40):
a reduction after the fact. Her family members have said
she won't, but you never know, and that's very interesting. Honestly. Look,
if I was to go down, say I was some
sort of scumbag like these people, and I was to
go down, and all of the other people weren't to
go down, I'd probably wrap them out too. I'm gonna
sit in a jail cell for the rest of my
(12:01):
life while you eat Cavia. I don't think so scumbag,
So I would probably be trying to work something out.
I would have tried, probably tried to work something out
prior to all of this, though, and I would have
been willing to give up everything. And if Maxwell was
truly sorry, like she said she was, she would have
done that after Epstein's first arrest if she had nothing
(12:22):
to do with it, if she was just an innocent person,
she would have came out after Epstein's first arrest and
went and sat down with the FBI and said, look,
this is everything that I know. These are all of
the people that were involved. As far as I know,
she never did any of that. She continued to benefit
from her relationship with Epstein, continued to clock all kinds
(12:44):
of dough and then when shit goes south, all of
a sudden, it's all Epstein's fault. You played no part,
Uncle Lane. Sure, okay, she could work off the fifteen
years by cooperating. She can name names, test against others.
Grand Jerry shave off significant time. Romani said, there's really
(13:05):
two very distinct paths for Gallayne Maxwell here. She either
takes her chance on appeal or she goes down the
cooperation route. It's really one or the other. Maxwell's legal
team has indicated they will appear appeal against her December
twenty twenty one conviction in an effort to force a
new trial. Now, I don't think that's going to be
a successful appeal, but you know what, who knows, who
(13:28):
knows what they'll come up with to try and get
the court to turn in their favor. But usually historically
these appeals are not successful. However, Barry Salzman, who has
previously represented twenty Epstein survivors, said her prospects for succeeding
at an appeal may be limited. Salzman, a partner at
(13:51):
Barosh McGary Salzman and Penson, told Newsweek, I don't believe
they are going to be successful on appeal. My opinion
is that I don't think they will be be any
success on the appeal. The verdict will stand and the
sentence will stand. I agree with that. I just don't
see how they think that they'll be able to appeal
this and get it knocked off. It just doesn't seem
(14:13):
like reality to me. While we're a bit disappointed the
court didn't impose a higher sentence, this sentence definitely recognizes
the severity of Maxwell's conduct, the shocking and extensive nature
of it. Salsman added, It's again less than what the
prosecutors had asked for, but it's higher than the sentencing guidelines.
(14:34):
So I thought from the beginning, like we talked about
that Max that excuse me, that Nathan would end up
splitting the baby, that she'd find a happy medium here,
because that's a sort of judge. She is right, she's
not going to impose harsh penalties, unfortunately, and that's exactly
what it ended up being. I think that that is
(14:55):
a positive. It's a stiff sentence. I wish it was more,
but I do think that it certainly will bring some
measure of justice inclosure to the survivors. Salzman said, I
would have preferred to see something more in the neighborhood
of thirty years. So twenty years for a woman in
her early sixties is still a pretty severe sentence. Look
it is. There's no doubt. I'm not gonna sit here
(15:16):
and act like you know, she got five years, twenty years,
fifteen years a significant amount of time to spend behind bars.
But again, when all's said and done, only six or
seven more than what my loved one spent in prison
for quote unquote illegal gambling, no violence, nobody hurt, nothing,
(15:38):
but you know, they didn't take his age into account.
He was in his seventies. No big deal, will throw
him in prison. He's not rich, his last name isn't Maxwell.
So that's why I was so fired up when Maxwell's
asking for that short sentence of you know, four and
a half, five and a half years, it's just straight
(15:59):
up of third And even when you know, you look
at the short time here with the fifteen it's not
optimal by any stretch. But fifteen years, twenty years is
a long time in prison. And remember, folks, a lot
of shit can happen in fifteen years, especially while you're
behind bars. Sarah Ransom, a survivor of Maxwell and Epstein,
(16:23):
did not take part in the trial, but issued a
powerful survivor impact statement at sentencing in which she outlined
two suicide attempts that she said were near fatal. Her statement,
seen by Newsweek, read, on one visit to the island,
the sexual demands, degradation and humiliation became so horrific that
I tried to escape by attempting to jump off a
(16:45):
cliff into shark infested waters, but was caught by Maxwell
and company moments before jumping. At the time, the extremely
risky escape seemed more appealing than being raped one more time.
Quoted by the BBC outside the court, Glaine must die
in prison because I've been in helen back for the
last seventeen years. That's how a lot of these survivors
(17:07):
feel and felt Glene Maxwell played a key part in
the destruction of their lives. And I don't know how
much more straightforward I could put it. We don't need
to get down, you know, and reconstruct things. Maxwell destroyed
their lives, point blank, period and in return, these survivors
(17:28):
were hoping for a life sentence for Maxwell. Now if
when she gets out eighty years old, seventy five years old,
whatever it is, life is pretty much gonna be over
for her, as she knows it. But still she's gonna
have a chance to see daylight again. She still has
that glimmer of hope every day while she's you know,
laying around in prison. And unfortunately, I you know, I
(17:52):
wish she didn't have that. But I'm not the one
dropping the sentence, right I wish I was. Unfortunately, though, folks,
I do not make the rule us. Annie Farmer, a
Maxwell survivor who testified at the trial, described her experience
in her statement this toxic combination of being sexually exposed
and exploited, feeling confused, in naive blaming myself. All resulted
(18:15):
in significant shame, that sickening feeling that makes you want
to disappear. It was not constant, but would come in waves,
similar to the waves of anxiety that would also show up.
She said. When I think back, I see a slide
show of moments when these feelings would surface and overwhelm me.
I remember sitting at my desk in a Houston hospital
(18:35):
physically shaking after seeing the photo of Maxwell with Virginia
Roberts and Prince Andrew because it became clear to me
how their scheme had continued. The time and unexpected security
screening from a TSA agent who patted down my chest
with the back of her hand left me crying and disoriented.
At the airport a fortieth birthday gathering, where I broke
(18:56):
down crying telling the story to some friends for the
first time, She continued, it was pretty powerful testimony from
the victims, particularly the ones who talked about her suicide
attempts and how she would jump into shark infested waters
to try to escape. Romani told Newsweek, and look, can
you imagine holding this all in for all of these
(19:16):
years and then sitting around with a group of your
friends that you trust, that you know, you know that'll
be there for you, and breaking down at your fortieth
birthday telling this story. Nobody should have to go through that.
And finally, for Annie, there's a little bit of justice here.
Glen Maxwell's not going to be jet setting at least
for the next fifteen or twenty, so there's that. At
(19:38):
least she's not gonna hurt anybody for the next fifteen
or twenty, so there's that at least as well. Ultimately,
I know the government wanted more. They wanted thirty years.
Judge Nathan, she's fair, but she's considered fairly liberal. She's
not a very harsh sentencer. She's not one of not
one that one of those that generally goes above the guidelines.
(20:00):
But she did in this case, and I have to
give her a little credit there right for going above
what she usually does. But still, the way that Judge
Nathan called these hainous crimes and the rest of it,
you would think that she would have just dropped the
whole last kitchen sink on Glan Maxwell. But I think
this is one of the biggest problems with our justice system. Folks,
(20:21):
The people that should be in prison for the rest
of their lives. A lot of times they avoid that,
while people who are convicted on smaller petty crimes, well,
they can't navigate the system. And what happens is they
get their first defense, then their first defense turns into
their second, and before you know it, their career criminals
because now they're in the system and it's just, you know,
(20:45):
broken in that regard. Whereas people like Maxwell, you know,
I'll get me a little reduced sentence here, a little
bit of time off there, I'll be able to have
all the greatest lawyers in the world, you know, all
of that. But the reality is this, Glane Maxwell didn't
avoid justice this time. We can debate till the cows
come home if that justice is harsh enough. But the
(21:08):
fact is when she goes to sleep tonight, when she
goes to sleep every night following tonight, for a very
long time, before she goes to sleep, she'll hear those
bars clinking and locking. And from where I'm sitting, that
certainly is a good thing. If you'd like to contact me,
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.
(21:31):
That's bo bbu y C A P. U Cci at
ProtonMail dot com. You can also find me on Twitter
at Bobby Underscore c ap u Cci. The link that
I discussed can be found in the description box. All Right, folks,
we'll be back with the
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