July 15, 2025 • 50 mins
Myrna Maloney Flynn is the President and CEO of Massachusetts Citizens for Life, a role she has held since at least 2019. A skilled communications practitioner, she has leadership experience in marketing, broadcasting, account management, teaching, and higher education. Flynn earned a B.A. in mass communications and political science from Saint Mary's College, Notre Dame, an M.A.T. in English from Smith College, and has pursued an M.B.A. at the University of Massachusetts’ Isenberg School of Management. She is a vocal advocate for pro-life causes, emphasizing education and outreach, and serves as Chairman of the Pregnancy Care Alliance of Massachusetts
Thank you for watching The Ever-Living Podcast, a heartfelt space to share the stories and voices of women who champion a culture that values and protects life. Each episode we seek to empower, offering connection, hope, and strength through the journeys of those who work and pray for this cause. Crafted for women seeking purpose and community, we welcome you to join us in cherishing every single heartbeat.
Thank you for watching The Ever-Living Podcast, a heartfelt space to share the stories and voices of women who champion a culture that values and protects life. Each episode we seek to empower, offering connection, hope, and strength through the journeys of those who work and pray for this cause. Crafted for women seeking purpose and community, we welcome you to join us in cherishing every single heartbeat.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Everliving, a podcast about valuing life here on
Earth and for eternity. We are your life loving hosts
Cindy and Jessica. Every week on ever Living, we create
a space for sharing the stories and voices of those
who work and pray to create a culture that values
and protects life here in New England and beyond. Welcome
(00:33):
to ever Living.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Everybody, welcome back. How are you, Cindy good?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
How was your Independence Day?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was good? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
What did I even do? I hung out with my
mom and my brother, That's what I did. It was
very low key.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We went for a walk and no eat barbecue food
and stuff. And I actually got to see fireworks last night,
which was cool because I don't know, I don't know
how it is in New Hampshire, but in Connecticut they
do a lot of the fireworks, like after the Fourth
of July. I think it's because like it's probably don't
have to probably pay holiday pay to all the police officers.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, interesting, So happy July later.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, pretty much. I got to see fireworks. That's fun.
But yeah, what about you?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How was your fourth It was pretty active.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I got to be in the parade in town in
the antique car.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I go.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Then we celebrated a friend's birthday in Boston, born on
the fourth of July. And then we came back to
New Hampshire and watched fireworks with a family and conquered
so nice.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wow, you had a busy day. So you said, an
antique car. That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, Like what was that?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
What was that for? That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's just historical. You just okay, enjoy America's history.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, do you know what is a very historical state
in the United States?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Let me guess, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's Massachusetts. I would say, the birthplace of America and
the hopefully the birthplace of many children. Today's special guest
is Myrna Maloney Flynn. She is the president and CEO
of Massachusetts Citizens for Life. Let us warmly welcome Rna
to Ever Living Podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Welcome Rna, Thank you very much. Hello, Hello to you both,
and thank you for having me. It's just a delight
to be here. This is this is such a wonderful project.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
It's a great initiative.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's been a really great opportunity and we get to
meet a lot of a lot of really cool people
doing awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I bet, I bet. And it's got to be very
inspiring to hear different voices and share them. That's great.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, inspiring, thought provoking, challenging at times. I take it
as a great responsibility. And so let me I found
a little bit about what you wrote on LinkedIn? Is
it okay about to share that?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Of course sure.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So you wrote, as Massachusetts Citizens for a Life's President,
my aim is to encourage others to respectfully and compassionately
inform women of their options when faced with an unplanned pregnancy,
and to focus not on making abortion illegal but unthinkable.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
So that's right, that's right, that's right. We can work
to pass pro life protections, but really it's it's going
to be up to us to change hearts and minds
and change the culture so that people across the country,
across the world can't even imagine abortion being an option anymore.
(04:00):
So that's what we're working toward.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Right, absolutely, So, Murda, could you tell us a little
bit kind of going off of that, could you tell
us a little bit about who you are? For those
of you who are I'm familiar with you, a little
bit about your background and what your role is at
Massachusetts Citizens Forge is the organization you work at.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Well. I never really anticipated landing in a presidential role
at Mass Citizens for Life or within any pro life organization,
but it was very providential in terms of how I
landed here. I grew up in a pro life home.
I learned when I was about thirty that when my
(04:41):
parents were expecting me as a surprise unplanned pregnancy, a
family friend approached them actually after Mass one day. And
this was in nineteen seventy four, just a year after
roe versus Way legalized abortion across the country. A family
friend had come up to my parents and told them,
(05:04):
you know, there's something you can do now. And I
hadn't heard that story until I was thirty pregnant with
my own first child. And up until that point, though
I had been pro life, I had been pretty quiet
about it. I lived in a really radical pro abortion area.
All of my friends were abortion rights advocates at one
(05:28):
extreme or you know, just I knew how they felt.
Maybe they were quiet as well, but I knew that
we didn't share the same pro life viewpoint, and so
I was very quiet. A closeted pro lifer, if you will,
I voted pro life and called it good. And then
after my parents shared that story with me, my conscience
(05:50):
became a little bit unsettled. And as the years went
on and as our culture grew more polarized, particularly around
a life issue, became even more uncomfortable and specifically uncomfortable
with myself for being quiet. And it ended up being
sort of a professional instance where I was finally convinced
(06:13):
to start speaking up. And I had worked for several
years on college campuses, very radical, very progressive college campuses
out in western Massachusetts, and so I had sort of
been over my head in a radical pro abortion viewpoint.
And it wasn't until a strategic planning session where my
(06:38):
boss at the time tossed out an idea, and her
idea for the future was, let's put a clinic upstairs
in our building. And she said that, and I knew
exactly what kind of clinic she meant, and I quit
pretty much the next day, and I started googling how
(06:59):
to get in in Massachusetts in the pro life movement,
and then one step after another led me again very providentially,
to Massachusetts Citizens for Life, to the board, to volunteering
my time, to working in a communications and marketing role
for the organization and then eventually working my way up
(07:20):
to the presidency. And that's that's where I've been for
the past gosh seven years. So it's been it's been
a ride, but a lovely one.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Wow. That's incredible, Merna.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know, I obviously I've known you for a while now,
but I don't think I've ever heard some of those
pieces of your stories. That's that's crazy, Like it really
does seem like God, really, you know, it was providential
that you ended up in the role that you are
in today.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Absolutely, I believe that every day. It's it's not an
easy job. It's it's still scary to speak out, but
boil boy, does it feel a lot better than being
silent and not speaking out at all.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Well, you know you're doing really great work, obviously in
a state like Massachusetts, So you know, obviously, I think
most people probably know the you know, Massachusetts is a
hard state to be pro life in sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But I guess you could give a little bit more
background as Massachusetts always been so radical of a state
in terms of pro abortion laws or has this kind
of been a thing? How has Massachusetts changed over time
in terms of being pro abortion I.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Guess well, I think, you know, in the eighties, Massachusetts,
which has always been a heavily democratic state. Massachu has
had the benefit of a very large Catholic population, the
Kennedy family and sort of the pro life Democrat wing
and and a very strong vocal pro life Democrat and
(08:57):
also the pro life Republicans. I mean, so it was
a more unified issue in past generations. And again, I
think over the last thirty twenty years things started to
kind of fall apart when the Democratic Party really became
so focused on abortion, and you know, nationwide we saw
(09:19):
their focus go from the Clintonian message of abortion should
be safe, legal, and rare to the current message of
the Democratic Party, which is abortion on demand for any reason,
no questions asked. So that has really taken root here
(09:39):
in Massachusetts because the pro life Democrats have really been
silenced themselves. And again, looking at what Massachusetts specializes in
for industry, we've got higher education, and we've got health
care to the most progressive traditionally the most progressive of industries,
(10:01):
and so you kind of combine all of those aspects
together and it's really not surprising that this is such
an unfriendly state to pro lifers. But you know, I
think technology has been very helpful to start turning the tide,
because not everybody here is completely irrational. There are a
fair number of irrational people, but there's a pretty significant
(10:24):
middle that we're trying to reach, and we know once
we have conversations with them that they do want to
help women, that they're not opposed to the very extreme
abortion laws like partial birth abortion, like abortion up until
the moment of birth or even past birth, you know,
not helping a baby that survives an abortion. There's a
(10:46):
huge chunk of the population that wants nothing to do
with that kind of extreme abortion law. And so those
are the people who we are hoping to reach and
make them feel that it's okay to speak out on
those aspects of this issue and then work back from there.
You know, it's sort of an incremental approach because really,
(11:10):
once you bring people on board with you on those
very extreme components, then it becomes very easy to talk
to them about, well, what's different than in an abortion
that happens at twenty weeks or at fifteen weeks. And
so that's what we're working on, is, you know, indicating
what the science says, Displaying photos and just facts of
(11:33):
biological fetal development that are irrefutable. You know that Massachusetts
like it's science and is proud of its medical research,
so we're using that as a way to convince people
of what's true.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, no, it's so important the baby.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, the baby develops in a scientific way, just.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That you know, just from single cell to you know,
who are right?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So actually, can you can you hold up the booklet
that Massachusetts Seusans for Life is sharing, maybe hold it closer.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
So we produced this a couple of years ago. It's
just a fetal development booklet, so it's pocket size, it's
thirty two pages, and it was really designed for middle
school students and high school students. Our goal is to
you know, get these booklets into the public schools because
(12:36):
our science curriculum frameworks here in Massachusetts don't require fetal
development to be taught in their classrooms, so we are
hoping to supplement that curriculum with these booklets. Of course,
that's a that's a tall order to get these into
the public schools here, but we have gotten them in
(12:57):
a couple of schools, so it's not impossible. But what
we're finding is that you know, when students see these
images and read the very simple facts that accompany the images,
they see very clearly, very quickly, what happens at the
(13:17):
early stages of pregnancy all the way up to birth.
And then when they're introduced to the concept of abortion,
children know right away what is right and what is wrong,
and they put it together themselves. You know, the group
moderators or our speakers don't even really have to make
that connection for them. They do it themselves. And that's
(13:40):
what's beautiful about these booklets. So we've worked with youth
groups and homeschooling networks to really just plant the seed
with our youth. And we know that when you plant
the seed young, those individuals grow up and their natural
pro life advocates. So that's when that we're working to
(14:01):
change the culture. And it's a long game, we know that,
but we know that it works.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, yeah, because they like when they start to grow up,
there is a there could be a pro abortion message
that is being you know, repeated to them, you know,
the children over and over so that they only hear
one side, you know, they don't hear the truth.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Of well in this book that they see very clearly
that there is a second body at stake. When we
hear women say my body, my choice, well, it's pretty
obvious this is a separate body. And I think again,
that's a connection that if we plant that seed early,
that argument then falls apart pretty quickly as well. And
you know, the other great thing with these pregnancy resource
(14:51):
centers here have requested many, many copies for their centers
because ultrasounds. As we know that pregnancy resource centers provide
to women in a crisis pregnancy, those ultrasound images are
critical and we know that when women see their babies
on a screen, they are more likely to choose life,
(15:13):
no questions about that. They're very successful. The thing is,
ultrasound images are not detailed enough to show what a
baby looks like at seven, eight, nine weeks, whereas these
booklets do include those images, and so we're helping women
to choose life at prcs as well.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So RNA, is there a way for our listeners to
get a hold of these booklets for their own use?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
When, yeah, how would they go about doing that?
Speaker 5 (15:47):
On our website, we have an order form. It's very
simple and anyone across the country can order these. There's
nothing specific in these two Massachusetts. So we are able
to up these booklets cost free to anyone who orders them.
We just need to know that the person has good intentions,
(16:09):
so we do a little bit of vetting and want
to know how these booklets will be used. And then
ideally what we ask when we ship the booklets again
cost free, is that whoever the moderator is for the
youth group or pregnancy center, we would love to get
at least one image returned to us of the booklet
(16:32):
in the hands of a student or in the hands
of you know, a couple of parents looking it over,
something like that, so that we can communicate to our
supporters that their contributions that made this possible really are
paying off.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That's amazing that they're free.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That's really really, really wonderful.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
It's all donor supported.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, and so yeah, I feel like that's just education
is such an important thing, and especially if the schools
aren't doing it. So you mentioned that you've been able
to get these booklets into a few schools, what would
be your advice for say, we have a listener who
you know, watches this and really wants to order these
booklets and is like, I want to get these into
my local public school, what would you suggest, or public
(17:19):
school or just any school in general, what would you suggest,
like would be the next steps like of how to
go about that process of getting these books into the
hands of students in schools.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
What's worked for us is personal relationships. So in the
schools where we have actually gotten these into the classroom,
it's because we knew somebody who knew somebody in the
biology department or you know. In one case, it was
a pregnancy care center staff member whose friend is a
(17:49):
biology teacher in high school down the road, So we
were able to sort of use that connection and that
the bioteacher herself was pro life and so she was
more than happy to have these booklets brought into her
room and kind of introduce them to her school. So
more educators than you would think do have a receptive
(18:11):
tendency when they see what these are, So it's possible.
But I think it is all about relationships and kind
of leveraging those to get these into the hands of students.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
That's awesome, No, that's a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I'm actually I'm a Massachusetts a middle school science teacher myself,
so I'm very interested in bringing this in to the classroom.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
The website is The website is www dot Mass Citizens
for Life dot org and then on the homepage you
can just go right to the fetal development booklets. That's awesome. Yeah,
I don't see any reason why people wouldn't want to
see life in the womb. And you know, like, let's
(19:05):
look at it, let's understand it. You know, let's let's
not hide it, let's not deny it.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
It's right, that's right, it's very it's a very gentle approach.
It's gentle and it's truth, and so it's you can't
refute the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Absolutely. Yeah, Well, thank you for sharing that, RNA. Could
you tell us.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
About are there any other projects that Mass Citizens for
Life is working on or ways that our listeners can
get involved with you guys? What are some some tangible
ways they can involve with you.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
We need help with a new initiative that we just
launched on Father's Day and that is an adoption and
foster care initiative that we have just added to our website.
And if you can believe this, you know, Mass Citizens
for Life is fifty two years old and in all
of those fifty two years, this organization has never p
(20:00):
any kind of literature or public awareness efforts regarding the
foster care system here or adoption as a pro life avenue,
and so we're doing that now. Again, it's very belated,
but we are very excited to launch this initiative. And
(20:21):
the number one way that we think we're going to
communicate to viewers and visitors to the website about the
value of adoption and the need in the foster care
system is by telling stories, stories of foster care parents
about their experience, about what it's like to become licensed,
(20:45):
about what it's like to welcome strange children into your
home only to have them be returned to their parents
and reunify in a safe way potentially down the road,
what it's like to deal with the Department of Children
and Families, and all of that involves, Especially in Massachusetts,
(21:07):
we want to hear from foster parents who did end
up adopting children into their home, and we have a
few really good stories, powerful testimonies, just to build awareness.
You know, there are about eighty five hundred foster children
in the state of Massachusetts, and that's egregious that it's
(21:29):
absolutely heartbreaking and we as pro lifers need to be
doing much more, and so this initiative is sort of
dipping our toe in the water. It's a small step forward,
but we know that it will pay off. And again
it's just the start of what we want to do again,
just to start starting the conversation and taking the fear
(21:51):
out of fostering so that more people will really consider
opening their home and opening their hearts to children in need.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
That's wonderful, That's really wonderful. I think often, you know,
I know, especially you know, with my outreach on campus,
sometimes I get, you know, oh, you don't care about
the baby after they're born, or what if the child
ends up.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
In foster care. And I think that's always a misconception
as well. People often think that children that you know,
are unwanted automatically enter the foster care system, whereas they'd
actually enter the adoption system and then later on if
there's some sort of something going on at home that's
not safe for the child, then they entered foster care.
But even still, right the foster care is something that
(22:36):
we should talk about as pro lifers. So I think
that's really wonderful that you guys are doing that. So
if people want to maybe they are foster parents or
they adopted foster children, So can they go to your
website and the information on your website Okay, yes.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It's mass Citizens for Life dot org slash adoption and
there are resources listed on the website. There are ways
that people can just learn where they even begin. We
have some links to adoption agencies and organizations that will
connect interested in people with foster children just to start
(23:16):
to learn more. So it's a good clearinghouse that we've
got started. We need to add more and we will.
But what we also really really are asking for our stories.
So if anyone is listening to this and is a
foster parent, has fostered before, is an adoptive parent, or
knows of a family who has adopted or fostered, we
(23:37):
really really need those stories. And we can absolutely protect privacy,
but if we can tell stories, that's how we're going
to reach people, and that's how we're going to convince people.
And you know, this all started really because we welcomed
Bishop W. C. Martin and his wife Donna Martin for
(23:57):
our annual Mother's Day dinner in May there and they
are the couple who were featured in a feature film
that was out about a year ago called The Sound
of Hope The Story of Possum Trott. Oh wow, Yes,
So their story is amazing. I highly recommend the film.
It's not a family film and it's not suitable for children.
(24:19):
But the Sound of Hope is an incredible film and
it's moving, and it's convincing and it's convicting, and it's
about bishop and his wife who from their small town
in Texas ended up adopting out of the foster care
system seventy seven children because they started this very contagious effort.
(24:44):
They themselves adopted two children out of the foster care
system because they saw a need and they couldn't look away.
And then once they brought these children into their family,
other parishioners in their church community saw how much of
an impact they had made and they wanted to adopt,
(25:04):
and pretty soon the whole church and the whole community
started to adopt all these children out of the foster
care system. So that's what this movie is about. So
it's based on a true story, and so they were
with us to tell their own version of the story,
and it was it was so incredible and so we
saw this movie, we had them speak to us and
(25:24):
we thought, you know what, we have to get involved.
So they were really the impetus for this initiative.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow, that's truly so it's gonna it's growing beyond the
seventy seven children that that started it.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I think, yes, oh absolutely, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Can we go to the website. Let's go to mass
Citizensforlife dot org slash adoption. Is that can We'm going
to take us to that page.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
One of my favorite stories, the first story that we
received that's featured on that page, is a story about
a couple who is in their fifties. They have a
daughter who's nearing the age of thirty. They fostered a
set of twins a few years ago because they felt
(26:22):
like they had more to give, they had room in
their hearts. They had always struggled with fertility, so they
welcomed in a set of twins with the intent to
adopt and along the way. As soon as the twins
arrived at their home, this couple found out they were pregnant.
So then they have a toddler in the mix as well,
and so that's their image right there. And so they've
(26:44):
shared their story with us and it is a beautiful story.
And so, as I said, they started out intending to
adopt the twins. Now, the ultimate goal that any department
of and family worker will share is that a child should,
(27:05):
if possible, be reunited and reunified with its biological family
if at all possible. You know, if the parents are
able to and capable of providing a safe and loving home,
that is the goal. If that's not possible, then that's
where adoption comes into play. But in this case, praise God,
(27:28):
the father did do a lot of work on himself
in order that he could actually take his twins back.
And so this couple, God blessed them. They had these
twins for two or three years I think, and just
recently sent them home with their father. And again, praise
God for that, because that's the goal. But they are
(27:50):
saints in the making, because it really does take a
very very strong person and couple, and I think a
couple of faith. Probably they're face carried them through. Absolutely,
But but how beautiful that these children had their home
to be in for those critical years.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Absolutely, that's such an interesting it's such an interesting issue
and such an interesting unique situation. But it's like, yeah,
it's like, you know, thank God for all these families
that are willing to be foster parents, and we need more.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And I don't know if you've ever.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Seen the movie Instant Family came out.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I have, I have not. I've heard about it and
it's been recommended to me.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's a great movie too, about the foster care system
and a family who yeah, takes in children teenage children
as well from the foster system, which is really interesting.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
So I would recommend, okay, add it to my list
for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, well, that's great. I've heard of.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I've heard story a story of a child who was
adopted and then that she still got to be in
touch with her biological family and relatives and so that
she felt like she had extra love, that she got
to have like extra love from all of these different
families in her life.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So that was.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
That's right, And you know, that's one of when I
write on LinkedIn that there are options and we want
women to explore those options. And open adoption is one
such option that I don't think people think enough about.
And I think there's a stigma with adoption that it's
going to be traumatic on the child, traumatic for the
birth mother, which you know, I don't think there's anything
(29:47):
about adoption that's necessarily easy, but there are ways to
make it life giving and life affirming and really rewarding
for all involved. And so that's the other message that
we want to put forth with this initiative.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
That's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, Marne kind of switching topics a little bit, but
this is so also awesome.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Thank you for sharing all this.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
But another thing I wanted to talk about, just because
I feel like this is a very relevant thing that's
going on in an easy way for people to get involved.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Could you tell us a little bit more about the
bills that were recently introduced in Massachusetts regarding the abortion
issue and how people can get involved with either supporting
these bills or opposing them, depending on what they are.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Mass Citizens for Life actually filed a few bills of
our own this session, so on our website under the
legislation tab, individuals can learn about what bills they should
be supporting. One of those bills would protect down syndrome
babies who received the diagnosis while in utero protect them
from abortion. Another bill would protect women from being coerced
(31:02):
into abortion. We know that women have reported not wanting
to have abortions, but being pressured or coursed by partners
and therefore sort of succumbing to that pressure and having
an abortion against their will. So we have a bill
that we're hoping to really promote that component of this issue,
(31:26):
because we hear so often that abortion is a choice,
and it's a very personal choice that every woman should have,
but in reality, it's not actually the choice in all
situations that we think that it is. And so that
bill is intended to bring that issue to light. And
as for bills that we oppose, there are plenty of
(31:48):
those that were introduced again this session. Actually, we just
had a hearing before the Joint Committee on Public Health
earlier today and I testified on a bill that would
ban abortion pill reversal. And it was sort of a senseless, ridiculous,
attention grabbing bill that one particular legislator put forth that really,
(32:12):
in reality, probably isn't too much of a threat. And
yet we have seen abortion pill reversal come under fire
in Colorado, in New York, in California by the Attorney's
General and they mean business. And so we took this
bill very seriously today, and so that is the one
that I testified against. And the reception today in the
(32:35):
hearing was quite chilly, which is interesting because generally, in
these hearings, I mean, we go in as pro lifers
and we know that we're going to be up against
a committee that is very much on the other side
of our issue. That's just how it works in Massachusetts.
Everybody knows that, but we still show up. We have
to testify because we're the voice, and it's usually respect.
(33:01):
Today was an exception. I have never seen a hearing
that was as hostile toward every pro lifer who testified today.
It was egregious, it was unprofessional, It was almost laughable
the treatment that we all received. They spoke over us,
they come off, they sort of criticized our means of testifying.
(33:27):
One individual, actually one of our young adults, took time
off work to show up and to testify in opposition
to one of the radical bills that would remove parental consent,
and he opened his testimony by asking the committee rhetorical questions, okay,
and the committee chair stopped him, interrupted him, and proceeded
(33:50):
to tell him that no questions could be asked. That's
not how the committee process worked, Essentially chewing into the
time that he was allotted. And that was her strategy
today because she did this same thing for me and
didn't give me the time back at the end. And
it was just those little attempts today to really make us,
you know, even more outnumbered and against the ropes than
(34:13):
we usually are. We're very apparent, and I think I
told my colleague this. I think I take it as
a compliment, and I think I take it as a
sign that they're scared. They see what's going on nationally,
that there is an administration in the White House right
now and on Capitol Hill that means business and is
(34:35):
being very successful in passing pro life protections, and even
in Massachusetts, these legislators are a little bit scared. And
also they don't see a leader in the wings to
help them anytime soon. And so I think that was
where the difference was today. So it'll be interesting to
(34:55):
see what happens. But but yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
That's your experience today.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But I guess that makes it mean that people should
you know, is it now is the time to support
and oppose these bills?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yes, more than ever.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So, Ben, could you pull up that website. This is
the website right that the people can go to and
submit testimony.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Yes, And in fact, it's the testimonies on that page
depending on which bill you click on. They're all pre written.
You can personalize them if you want, with your own
messages or your own talking points, but otherwise we've done
the work for each individual, and so all you do
is plug in your your contact information, your address, and
(35:44):
submit it and it goes right to your representative in
your district and then on to the committee.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
That's awesome. Scroll down nice and easy.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah, can you.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Scroll down on this page see what's what the bills are.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Awesome?
Speaker 4 (36:09):
So I see I saw on the top the one
you know, protecting babies who have Down syndrome from abortion.
I feel like that's a pretty common sense UH law
or bill to be proposed.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So that that would be great to see that past.
And I know you mentioned that you testified against the
bill that would ban abortion abortion pill reversal, and I
think that's crazy because we've talked about this in other episodes,
but abortion peal reversal has saved thousands of babies throughout
the country for women who just decided that they didn't
(36:43):
want to go through with an abortion and they wanted
to have their baby, and it's completely safe and it's
literally just hormone hormone that you're obvious already making. So
I think that's crazy that they want to ban that.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, if you if they're if you're stopping a woman
from reversing her abortion, you're taking away her choice to
choose life. You are you're forcing her to choose abortion. Yeah,
(37:58):
it seems like the the opponents to abortion pill, the
opponents to abortion pill reversal, are just not wanting to
let these children live.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
I can't figure out why they oppose it, because it's
you know, if we do as I believe, you know,
if we think of abortion as an industry, if you
really want to look at it this way, the abortion
has already been paid for. You know, if a woman
goes into planned parenthood and requests a chemical abortion, she
(38:33):
puts her money down, takes the pills, and they don't
ever see her again. You know, their their part is done.
So I can't figure out why they would oppose something
that is choice, it is reproductive choice, and yet it
is so much it is so much opposed among them.
And actually, one thing that we talked about today during
(38:54):
the hearing and I'll mention it now for your viewers.
Massachusetts Citizens for Life is fortunate that one of our
board members has a master's in bioethics and he has
a strong interest in abortion pill reversal. So he created
a website that is specifically intended for legislators, for the media,
(39:18):
for critics, for those who want more information and who
want the science behind abortion pill reversal. So the site
is actually called abortion APR science dot com, So I
don't know if you want to pull that up, but
it's got loads and loads of peer reviewed research and
(39:41):
studies from around the world that really do underscore the
safety of abortion pill reversal, the success the potential success
of abortion pill reversal, and you know, these are from
pretty renowned scienceists on the international scale. And so he
(40:03):
worked very hard to put this site together, and we
just launched it about a year and a half ago,
and the web traffic is amazing. We haven't even done
any advertising or anything. It's just sort of it's available
and we you know, we post a bit on x
about this, but we've got traffic from from all over
the world from people who are learning more about APR.
(40:27):
So it's great.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
That's super cool. Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, I definitely will use this website you know, when
I'm talking to people as well, So that's that's wonderful.
So yeah, no, thank you for sharing all that, and yeah,
definitely everyone go to the Legislative Action Center on Massachusettsans
for Life's website and you can submit testimony either for
these bills or opposing them, depending on what they are.
(40:52):
And the testimony is pretty much already pre made for you,
so it makes it easy. I would recommend adding your
own personal message. That always helps. But that's awesome that
you guys have that. So we're kind of getting to
the end of time. But you know, mRNA, I did
just want to ask just like one last question for
(41:12):
you know, obviously, as we've talked about, Massachusetts is a
is a hard state, a difficult state to be pro life,
and sometimes and speaking out can be hard. So what
would be your advice to just the everyday person or
even the young the young person who is pro life
in Massachusetts and is scared and doesn't really know how
(41:35):
to how to take the next step and how to
speak out for life.
Speaker 5 (41:40):
Well, the thing that finally put me over the edge
in terms of realizing that it was okay to speak
about this issue, speak out for life, even as a minority,
even though I was probably going to be uh, you know,
struck down for it in some way. I just realized
(42:04):
one day, very simply that I'm not the one who's
trying to take a life. I'm not on the side
that's trying to spread lies to women to make a profit.
And once you realize those truths, then there's nothing stopping you.
There's no reason to not become involved, to not use
(42:29):
your voice. Because the thing I realized too, I stayed
silent for decades because I was too scared, or I
thought that other people were dealing with this, or I
thought that voting was enough, when the reality is, especially
in a state like Massachusetts, if we don't speak out,
(42:51):
nobody will, and those babies and those mothers are left
completely unsupported and unrepresented. And so it's our duty. We
have a responsibility to protect and defendable, vulnerable human life,
and and that's what it comes down to. So on
a professional level or a personal level, I just really
(43:13):
encourage people to just just learn, you know, even four
or five basic facts about abortion, what it does long term,
or about fetal development when a baby feels pain, you know,
the very very basic facts and not be afraid to
bring them up in conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
That's great advice.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I like that. Oh, definitely, we have the truth on
our side. That's right, that's right, that's wonderful. And then
one last thing is, I know you guys have a
young adult group and that might be a good way
for you know, those in Massachusetts and maybe you don't
have pro life peers, a pro life community, or maybe
(43:54):
out out of college to get involved in pro life work.
So how can could you tell us a little bit
more about the young adult group that you guys have
in me is for life?
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Yes, it's so much fun. We started this chapter about
three years ago with a few meetups outside Boston just
at local pubs, just to get people together, young professionals,
so either in college or just out of college, who
were pro life and really didn't know where they could
go that was welcoming, and so we created opportunities for
(44:26):
them to do just that. And these meetups have grown,
the chapter itself has grown. We are holding events outside
of Boston now. We held one in the Cape a
couple of weeks ago, and now the young adults themselves
are starting to plan their own events outside of meeting
at pubs, they're starting to volunteer at pregnancy resource centers.
(44:48):
They've put flyers out on cars on a number of
different occasions, you know, just basic, respectful informational flyers about
what pregnancy is centers do, because that's something that we've
had to work very hard on here in Massachusetts. But
the young adults have taken that as their project, and
(45:09):
their next project will be to hold events in the
western part of the state, partnering with a pregnancy resource
center because specifically on public university campuses, the abortion pill
is mandated in every health center, and so we want
to start informing students about pregnancy resource centers in their area.
(45:33):
And so these are events that the young adults will
start having in the fall.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Awesome, that's that's great and people can find they can
find more information. I'm assuming on your website, right, is
that is that the best way to get in contact
for the young adult group.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
The best way to reach the young adult group is
to send just a simple email to action at mass
Citizens ProLife dot org and then we'll direct we'll direct
interested parties from there.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Awesome, well, wonderful, Well, thank you so much, Rna, and yeah,
thanks for coming on the show. And yeah, if people
want to, you know, just learn more. In general, I
know you guys have your website it's mass Citizens for
Life dot org. And then you're also on Instagram it's
at mass pro life. And then are you on any
(46:22):
other social media platforms as well.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
We're on LinkedIn, We're on x Facebook and I think
that's it awesome YouTube on YouTube on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, well, thank you again, thank you for sharing everything
you did.
Speaker 5 (46:41):
You're doing my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You guys are doing great work.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
So thank you and thank you for having me. It
was it was a pleasure to speak with you both.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
You too, Thank you already.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
God bless you all.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Well, thank you to take care you have you?
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh yes, you soon. So you want to share your
life for me Bible verse.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Well, i'll share the one that miRNA shared with us
before we started. She shared from Luke twenty one, verse twelve.
But before all this, they will lay their hands on
(47:44):
you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues
and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
For my namesake, this.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Will be your opportunity to bear witness settle it. Therefore
in your minds, not to meditate beforehand how to answer,
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which
none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
So hm hmm, that's beautiful verse.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
That Jesus will give us the mouth and wisdom to
go to speak against our adversaries, and they will not
even be able to contradict what they hear as the truth.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
So yeah, well that's great. That'scond here what I picked
you if you'd like the I picked some one twenty
seven three through five, which is, sons are indeed a
heritage from the Lord, the fruit.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Of the womb of reward.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, are the
sons of one's youth. Happy as the man who has
his quiver full of them, he shall not be put
to shame when he speaks with his enemies. In the
in the gate, it's really just talking about you know,
the importance of children and how yeah they're really you know,
just show your worth and your your inheritance. So yeah,
(49:14):
I want to show that the you know, children and
the fruit of your womb is mentioned so much in
the Bible. So it just really is how so important life.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So right, So having children, you won't be put to
shame in the in the public so exactly. Yeah, probably,
yeah garner some respect for being a father or something
like for raising kids. So all right, absolutely, well, thanks
(49:46):
for joining us, everybody.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Yeah, have a good week. See you next week.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Thank you for listening to the Ever Living Podcast.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
If you have scripture questions or things you'd like to share,
please feel free to email us that fever Livingpod at
gmail dot com. Also make sure to follow us on
Instagram at ever dot living podcast. And if you like
this podcast, please make sure to subscribe and share with
a friend and give us a five star review.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
See you next week. May God bless you and be
very near to you, and may you
Welcome to Everliving, a podcast about valuing life here on
Earth and for eternity. We are your life loving hosts
Cindy and Jessica. Every week on ever Living, we create
a space for sharing the stories and voices of those
who work and pray to create a culture that values
and protects life here in New England and beyond. Welcome
(00:33):
to ever Living.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Everybody, welcome back. How are you, Cindy good?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
How was your Independence Day?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It was good? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (00:42):
What did I even do? I hung out with my
mom and my brother, That's what I did. It was
very low key.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
We went for a walk and no eat barbecue food
and stuff. And I actually got to see fireworks last night,
which was cool because I don't know, I don't know
how it is in New Hampshire, but in Connecticut they
do a lot of the fireworks, like after the Fourth
of July. I think it's because like it's probably don't
have to probably pay holiday pay to all the police officers.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, interesting, So happy July later.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, pretty much. I got to see fireworks. That's fun.
But yeah, what about you?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How was your fourth It was pretty active.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I got to be in the parade in town in
the antique car.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I go.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Then we celebrated a friend's birthday in Boston, born on
the fourth of July. And then we came back to
New Hampshire and watched fireworks with a family and conquered
so nice.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wow, you had a busy day. So you said, an
antique car. That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, Like what was that?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
What was that for? That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's just historical. You just okay, enjoy America's history.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Well, do you know what is a very historical state
in the United States?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Let me guess, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's Massachusetts. I would say, the birthplace of America and
the hopefully the birthplace of many children. Today's special guest
is Myrna Maloney Flynn. She is the president and CEO
of Massachusetts Citizens for Life. Let us warmly welcome Rna
to Ever Living Podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Welcome Rna, Thank you very much. Hello, Hello to you both,
and thank you for having me. It's just a delight
to be here. This is this is such a wonderful project.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
It's a great initiative.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's been a really great opportunity and we get to
meet a lot of a lot of really cool people
doing awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
I bet, I bet. And it's got to be very
inspiring to hear different voices and share them. That's great.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, inspiring, thought provoking, challenging at times. I take it
as a great responsibility. And so let me I found
a little bit about what you wrote on LinkedIn? Is
it okay about to share that?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Of course sure.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So you wrote, as Massachusetts Citizens for a Life's President,
my aim is to encourage others to respectfully and compassionately
inform women of their options when faced with an unplanned pregnancy,
and to focus not on making abortion illegal but unthinkable.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
So that's right, that's right, that's right. We can work
to pass pro life protections, but really it's it's going
to be up to us to change hearts and minds
and change the culture so that people across the country,
across the world can't even imagine abortion being an option anymore.
(04:00):
So that's what we're working toward.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Right, absolutely, So, Murda, could you tell us a little
bit kind of going off of that, could you tell
us a little bit about who you are? For those
of you who are I'm familiar with you, a little
bit about your background and what your role is at
Massachusetts Citizens Forge is the organization you work at.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Well. I never really anticipated landing in a presidential role
at Mass Citizens for Life or within any pro life organization,
but it was very providential in terms of how I
landed here. I grew up in a pro life home.
I learned when I was about thirty that when my
(04:41):
parents were expecting me as a surprise unplanned pregnancy, a
family friend approached them actually after Mass one day. And
this was in nineteen seventy four, just a year after
roe versus Way legalized abortion across the country. A family
friend had come up to my parents and told them,
(05:04):
you know, there's something you can do now. And I
hadn't heard that story until I was thirty pregnant with
my own first child. And up until that point, though
I had been pro life, I had been pretty quiet
about it. I lived in a really radical pro abortion area.
All of my friends were abortion rights advocates at one
(05:28):
extreme or you know, just I knew how they felt.
Maybe they were quiet as well, but I knew that
we didn't share the same pro life viewpoint, and so
I was very quiet. A closeted pro lifer, if you will,
I voted pro life and called it good. And then
after my parents shared that story with me, my conscience
(05:50):
became a little bit unsettled. And as the years went
on and as our culture grew more polarized, particularly around
a life issue, became even more uncomfortable and specifically uncomfortable
with myself for being quiet. And it ended up being
sort of a professional instance where I was finally convinced
(06:13):
to start speaking up. And I had worked for several
years on college campuses, very radical, very progressive college campuses
out in western Massachusetts, and so I had sort of
been over my head in a radical pro abortion viewpoint.
And it wasn't until a strategic planning session where my
(06:38):
boss at the time tossed out an idea, and her
idea for the future was, let's put a clinic upstairs
in our building. And she said that, and I knew
exactly what kind of clinic she meant, and I quit
pretty much the next day, and I started googling how
(06:59):
to get in in Massachusetts in the pro life movement,
and then one step after another led me again very providentially,
to Massachusetts Citizens for Life, to the board, to volunteering
my time, to working in a communications and marketing role
for the organization and then eventually working my way up
(07:20):
to the presidency. And that's that's where I've been for
the past gosh seven years. So it's been it's been
a ride, but a lovely one.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Wow. That's incredible, Merna.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know, I obviously I've known you for a while now,
but I don't think I've ever heard some of those
pieces of your stories. That's that's crazy, Like it really
does seem like God, really, you know, it was providential
that you ended up in the role that you are
in today.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Absolutely, I believe that every day. It's it's not an
easy job. It's it's still scary to speak out, but
boil boy, does it feel a lot better than being
silent and not speaking out at all.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Well, you know you're doing really great work, obviously in
a state like Massachusetts, So you know, obviously, I think
most people probably know the you know, Massachusetts is a
hard state to be pro life in sometimes.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But I guess you could give a little bit more
background as Massachusetts always been so radical of a state
in terms of pro abortion laws or has this kind
of been a thing? How has Massachusetts changed over time
in terms of being pro abortion I.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Guess well, I think, you know, in the eighties, Massachusetts,
which has always been a heavily democratic state. Massachu has
had the benefit of a very large Catholic population, the
Kennedy family and sort of the pro life Democrat wing
and and a very strong vocal pro life Democrat and
(08:57):
also the pro life Republicans. I mean, so it was
a more unified issue in past generations. And again, I
think over the last thirty twenty years things started to
kind of fall apart when the Democratic Party really became
so focused on abortion, and you know, nationwide we saw
(09:19):
their focus go from the Clintonian message of abortion should
be safe, legal, and rare to the current message of
the Democratic Party, which is abortion on demand for any reason,
no questions asked. So that has really taken root here
(09:39):
in Massachusetts because the pro life Democrats have really been
silenced themselves. And again, looking at what Massachusetts specializes in
for industry, we've got higher education, and we've got health
care to the most progressive traditionally the most progressive of industries,
(10:01):
and so you kind of combine all of those aspects
together and it's really not surprising that this is such
an unfriendly state to pro lifers. But you know, I
think technology has been very helpful to start turning the tide,
because not everybody here is completely irrational. There are a
fair number of irrational people, but there's a pretty significant
(10:24):
middle that we're trying to reach, and we know once
we have conversations with them that they do want to
help women, that they're not opposed to the very extreme
abortion laws like partial birth abortion, like abortion up until
the moment of birth or even past birth, you know,
not helping a baby that survives an abortion. There's a
(10:46):
huge chunk of the population that wants nothing to do
with that kind of extreme abortion law. And so those
are the people who we are hoping to reach and
make them feel that it's okay to speak out on
those aspects of this issue and then work back from there.
You know, it's sort of an incremental approach because really,
(11:10):
once you bring people on board with you on those
very extreme components, then it becomes very easy to talk
to them about, well, what's different than in an abortion
that happens at twenty weeks or at fifteen weeks. And
so that's what we're working on, is, you know, indicating
what the science says, Displaying photos and just facts of
(11:33):
biological fetal development that are irrefutable. You know that Massachusetts
like it's science and is proud of its medical research,
so we're using that as a way to convince people
of what's true.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, no, it's so important the baby.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, the baby develops in a scientific way, just.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
That you know, just from single cell to you know,
who are right?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So actually, can you can you hold up the booklet
that Massachusetts Seusans for Life is sharing, maybe hold it closer.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
So we produced this a couple of years ago. It's
just a fetal development booklet, so it's pocket size, it's
thirty two pages, and it was really designed for middle
school students and high school students. Our goal is to
you know, get these booklets into the public schools because
(12:36):
our science curriculum frameworks here in Massachusetts don't require fetal
development to be taught in their classrooms, so we are
hoping to supplement that curriculum with these booklets. Of course,
that's a that's a tall order to get these into
the public schools here, but we have gotten them in
(12:57):
a couple of schools, so it's not impossible. But what
we're finding is that you know, when students see these
images and read the very simple facts that accompany the images,
they see very clearly, very quickly, what happens at the
(13:17):
early stages of pregnancy all the way up to birth.
And then when they're introduced to the concept of abortion,
children know right away what is right and what is wrong,
and they put it together themselves. You know, the group
moderators or our speakers don't even really have to make
that connection for them. They do it themselves. And that's
(13:40):
what's beautiful about these booklets. So we've worked with youth
groups and homeschooling networks to really just plant the seed
with our youth. And we know that when you plant
the seed young, those individuals grow up and their natural
pro life advocates. So that's when that we're working to
(14:01):
change the culture. And it's a long game, we know that,
but we know that it works.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, yeah, because they like when they start to grow up,
there is a there could be a pro abortion message
that is being you know, repeated to them, you know,
the children over and over so that they only hear
one side, you know, they don't hear the truth.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Of well in this book that they see very clearly
that there is a second body at stake. When we
hear women say my body, my choice, well, it's pretty
obvious this is a separate body. And I think again,
that's a connection that if we plant that seed early,
that argument then falls apart pretty quickly as well. And
you know, the other great thing with these pregnancy resource
(14:51):
centers here have requested many, many copies for their centers
because ultrasounds. As we know that pregnancy resource centers provide
to women in a crisis pregnancy, those ultrasound images are
critical and we know that when women see their babies
on a screen, they are more likely to choose life,
(15:13):
no questions about that. They're very successful. The thing is,
ultrasound images are not detailed enough to show what a
baby looks like at seven, eight, nine weeks, whereas these
booklets do include those images, and so we're helping women
to choose life at prcs as well.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So RNA, is there a way for our listeners to
get a hold of these booklets for their own use?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
When, yeah, how would they go about doing that?
Speaker 5 (15:47):
On our website, we have an order form. It's very
simple and anyone across the country can order these. There's
nothing specific in these two Massachusetts. So we are able
to up these booklets cost free to anyone who orders them.
We just need to know that the person has good intentions,
(16:09):
so we do a little bit of vetting and want
to know how these booklets will be used. And then
ideally what we ask when we ship the booklets again
cost free, is that whoever the moderator is for the
youth group or pregnancy center, we would love to get
at least one image returned to us of the booklet
(16:32):
in the hands of a student or in the hands
of you know, a couple of parents looking it over,
something like that, so that we can communicate to our
supporters that their contributions that made this possible really are
paying off.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
That's amazing that they're free.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
That's really really, really wonderful.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
It's all donor supported.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, and so yeah, I feel like that's just education
is such an important thing, and especially if the schools
aren't doing it. So you mentioned that you've been able
to get these booklets into a few schools, what would
be your advice for say, we have a listener who
you know, watches this and really wants to order these
booklets and is like, I want to get these into
my local public school, what would you suggest, or public
(17:19):
school or just any school in general, what would you suggest,
like would be the next steps like of how to
go about that process of getting these books into the
hands of students in schools.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
What's worked for us is personal relationships. So in the
schools where we have actually gotten these into the classroom,
it's because we knew somebody who knew somebody in the
biology department or you know. In one case, it was
a pregnancy care center staff member whose friend is a
(17:49):
biology teacher in high school down the road, So we
were able to sort of use that connection and that
the bioteacher herself was pro life and so she was
more than happy to have these booklets brought into her
room and kind of introduce them to her school. So
more educators than you would think do have a receptive
(18:11):
tendency when they see what these are, So it's possible.
But I think it is all about relationships and kind
of leveraging those to get these into the hands of students.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
That's awesome, No, that's a wonderful.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I'm actually I'm a Massachusetts a middle school science teacher myself,
so I'm very interested in bringing this in to the classroom.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
The website is The website is www dot Mass Citizens
for Life dot org and then on the homepage you
can just go right to the fetal development booklets. That's awesome. Yeah,
I don't see any reason why people wouldn't want to
see life in the womb. And you know, like, let's
(19:05):
look at it, let's understand it. You know, let's let's
not hide it, let's not deny it.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
It's right, that's right, it's very it's a very gentle approach.
It's gentle and it's truth, and so it's you can't
refute the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Absolutely. Yeah, Well, thank you for sharing that, RNA. Could
you tell us.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
About are there any other projects that Mass Citizens for
Life is working on or ways that our listeners can
get involved with you guys? What are some some tangible
ways they can involve with you.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
We need help with a new initiative that we just
launched on Father's Day and that is an adoption and
foster care initiative that we have just added to our website.
And if you can believe this, you know, Mass Citizens
for Life is fifty two years old and in all
of those fifty two years, this organization has never p
(20:00):
any kind of literature or public awareness efforts regarding the
foster care system here or adoption as a pro life avenue,
and so we're doing that now. Again, it's very belated,
but we are very excited to launch this initiative. And
(20:21):
the number one way that we think we're going to
communicate to viewers and visitors to the website about the
value of adoption and the need in the foster care
system is by telling stories, stories of foster care parents
about their experience, about what it's like to become licensed,
(20:45):
about what it's like to welcome strange children into your
home only to have them be returned to their parents
and reunify in a safe way potentially down the road,
what it's like to deal with the Department of Children
and Families, and all of that involves, Especially in Massachusetts,
(21:07):
we want to hear from foster parents who did end
up adopting children into their home, and we have a
few really good stories, powerful testimonies, just to build awareness.
You know, there are about eighty five hundred foster children
in the state of Massachusetts, and that's egregious that it's
(21:29):
absolutely heartbreaking and we as pro lifers need to be
doing much more, and so this initiative is sort of
dipping our toe in the water. It's a small step forward,
but we know that it will pay off. And again
it's just the start of what we want to do again,
just to start starting the conversation and taking the fear
(21:51):
out of fostering so that more people will really consider
opening their home and opening their hearts to children in need.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
That's wonderful, That's really wonderful. I think often, you know,
I know, especially you know, with my outreach on campus,
sometimes I get, you know, oh, you don't care about
the baby after they're born, or what if the child
ends up.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
In foster care. And I think that's always a misconception
as well. People often think that children that you know,
are unwanted automatically enter the foster care system, whereas they'd
actually enter the adoption system and then later on if
there's some sort of something going on at home that's
not safe for the child, then they entered foster care.
But even still, right the foster care is something that
(22:36):
we should talk about as pro lifers. So I think
that's really wonderful that you guys are doing that. So
if people want to maybe they are foster parents or
they adopted foster children, So can they go to your
website and the information on your website Okay, yes.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
It's mass Citizens for Life dot org slash adoption and
there are resources listed on the website. There are ways
that people can just learn where they even begin. We
have some links to adoption agencies and organizations that will
connect interested in people with foster children just to start
(23:16):
to learn more. So it's a good clearinghouse that we've
got started. We need to add more and we will.
But what we also really really are asking for our stories.
So if anyone is listening to this and is a
foster parent, has fostered before, is an adoptive parent, or
knows of a family who has adopted or fostered, we
(23:37):
really really need those stories. And we can absolutely protect privacy,
but if we can tell stories, that's how we're going
to reach people, and that's how we're going to convince people.
And you know, this all started really because we welcomed
Bishop W. C. Martin and his wife Donna Martin for
(23:57):
our annual Mother's Day dinner in May there and they
are the couple who were featured in a feature film
that was out about a year ago called The Sound
of Hope The Story of Possum Trott. Oh wow, Yes,
So their story is amazing. I highly recommend the film.
It's not a family film and it's not suitable for children.
(24:19):
But the Sound of Hope is an incredible film and
it's moving, and it's convincing and it's convicting, and it's
about bishop and his wife who from their small town
in Texas ended up adopting out of the foster care
system seventy seven children because they started this very contagious effort.
(24:44):
They themselves adopted two children out of the foster care
system because they saw a need and they couldn't look away.
And then once they brought these children into their family,
other parishioners in their church community saw how much of
an impact they had made and they wanted to adopt,
(25:04):
and pretty soon the whole church and the whole community
started to adopt all these children out of the foster
care system. So that's what this movie is about. So
it's based on a true story, and so they were
with us to tell their own version of the story,
and it was it was so incredible and so we
saw this movie, we had them speak to us and
(25:24):
we thought, you know what, we have to get involved.
So they were really the impetus for this initiative.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow, that's truly so it's gonna it's growing beyond the
seventy seven children that that started it.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I think, yes, oh absolutely, yes.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Can we go to the website. Let's go to mass
Citizensforlife dot org slash adoption. Is that can We'm going
to take us to that page.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
One of my favorite stories, the first story that we
received that's featured on that page, is a story about
a couple who is in their fifties. They have a
daughter who's nearing the age of thirty. They fostered a
set of twins a few years ago because they felt
(26:22):
like they had more to give, they had room in
their hearts. They had always struggled with fertility, so they
welcomed in a set of twins with the intent to
adopt and along the way. As soon as the twins
arrived at their home, this couple found out they were pregnant.
So then they have a toddler in the mix as well,
and so that's their image right there. And so they've
(26:44):
shared their story with us and it is a beautiful story.
And so, as I said, they started out intending to
adopt the twins. Now, the ultimate goal that any department
of and family worker will share is that a child should,
(27:05):
if possible, be reunited and reunified with its biological family
if at all possible. You know, if the parents are
able to and capable of providing a safe and loving home,
that is the goal. If that's not possible, then that's
where adoption comes into play. But in this case, praise God,
(27:28):
the father did do a lot of work on himself
in order that he could actually take his twins back.
And so this couple, God blessed them. They had these
twins for two or three years I think, and just
recently sent them home with their father. And again, praise
God for that, because that's the goal. But they are
(27:50):
saints in the making, because it really does take a
very very strong person and couple, and I think a
couple of faith. Probably they're face carried them through. Absolutely,
But but how beautiful that these children had their home
to be in for those critical years.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Absolutely, that's such an interesting it's such an interesting issue
and such an interesting unique situation. But it's like, yeah,
it's like, you know, thank God for all these families
that are willing to be foster parents, and we need more.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And I don't know if you've ever.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Seen the movie Instant Family came out.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I have, I have not. I've heard about it and
it's been recommended to me.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's a great movie too, about the foster care system
and a family who yeah, takes in children teenage children
as well from the foster system, which is really interesting.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
So I would recommend, okay, add it to my list
for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, well, that's great. I've heard of.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
I've heard story a story of a child who was
adopted and then that she still got to be in
touch with her biological family and relatives and so that
she felt like she had extra love, that she got
to have like extra love from all of these different
families in her life.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So that was.
Speaker 5 (29:26):
That's right, And you know, that's one of when I
write on LinkedIn that there are options and we want
women to explore those options. And open adoption is one
such option that I don't think people think enough about.
And I think there's a stigma with adoption that it's
going to be traumatic on the child, traumatic for the
birth mother, which you know, I don't think there's anything
(29:47):
about adoption that's necessarily easy, but there are ways to
make it life giving and life affirming and really rewarding
for all involved. And so that's the other message that
we want to put forth with this initiative.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
That's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Well, Marne kind of switching topics a little bit, but
this is so also awesome.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Thank you for sharing all this.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
But another thing I wanted to talk about, just because
I feel like this is a very relevant thing that's
going on in an easy way for people to get involved.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Could you tell us a little bit more about the
bills that were recently introduced in Massachusetts regarding the abortion
issue and how people can get involved with either supporting
these bills or opposing them, depending on what they are.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Well.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Mass Citizens for Life actually filed a few bills of
our own this session, so on our website under the
legislation tab, individuals can learn about what bills they should
be supporting. One of those bills would protect down syndrome
babies who received the diagnosis while in utero protect them
from abortion. Another bill would protect women from being coerced
(31:02):
into abortion. We know that women have reported not wanting
to have abortions, but being pressured or coursed by partners
and therefore sort of succumbing to that pressure and having
an abortion against their will. So we have a bill
that we're hoping to really promote that component of this issue,
(31:26):
because we hear so often that abortion is a choice,
and it's a very personal choice that every woman should have,
but in reality, it's not actually the choice in all
situations that we think that it is. And so that
bill is intended to bring that issue to light. And
as for bills that we oppose, there are plenty of
(31:48):
those that were introduced again this session. Actually, we just
had a hearing before the Joint Committee on Public Health
earlier today and I testified on a bill that would
ban abortion pill reversal. And it was sort of a senseless, ridiculous,
attention grabbing bill that one particular legislator put forth that really,
(32:12):
in reality, probably isn't too much of a threat. And
yet we have seen abortion pill reversal come under fire
in Colorado, in New York, in California by the Attorney's
General and they mean business. And so we took this
bill very seriously today, and so that is the one
that I testified against. And the reception today in the
(32:35):
hearing was quite chilly, which is interesting because generally, in
these hearings, I mean, we go in as pro lifers
and we know that we're going to be up against
a committee that is very much on the other side
of our issue. That's just how it works in Massachusetts.
Everybody knows that, but we still show up. We have
to testify because we're the voice, and it's usually respect.
(33:01):
Today was an exception. I have never seen a hearing
that was as hostile toward every pro lifer who testified today.
It was egregious, it was unprofessional, It was almost laughable
the treatment that we all received. They spoke over us,
they come off, they sort of criticized our means of testifying.
(33:27):
One individual, actually one of our young adults, took time
off work to show up and to testify in opposition
to one of the radical bills that would remove parental consent,
and he opened his testimony by asking the committee rhetorical questions, okay,
and the committee chair stopped him, interrupted him, and proceeded
(33:50):
to tell him that no questions could be asked. That's
not how the committee process worked, Essentially chewing into the
time that he was allotted. And that was her strategy
today because she did this same thing for me and
didn't give me the time back at the end. And
it was just those little attempts today to really make us,
you know, even more outnumbered and against the ropes than
(34:13):
we usually are. We're very apparent, and I think I
told my colleague this. I think I take it as
a compliment, and I think I take it as a
sign that they're scared. They see what's going on nationally,
that there is an administration in the White House right
now and on Capitol Hill that means business and is
(34:35):
being very successful in passing pro life protections, and even
in Massachusetts, these legislators are a little bit scared. And
also they don't see a leader in the wings to
help them anytime soon. And so I think that was
where the difference was today. So it'll be interesting to
(34:55):
see what happens. But but yeah, sorry.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
That's your experience today.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But I guess that makes it mean that people should
you know, is it now is the time to support
and oppose these bills?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yes, more than ever.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So, Ben, could you pull up that website. This is
the website right that the people can go to and
submit testimony.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Yes, And in fact, it's the testimonies on that page
depending on which bill you click on. They're all pre written.
You can personalize them if you want, with your own
messages or your own talking points, but otherwise we've done
the work for each individual, and so all you do
is plug in your your contact information, your address, and
(35:44):
submit it and it goes right to your representative in
your district and then on to the committee.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
That's awesome. Scroll down nice and easy.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Yeah, can you.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Scroll down on this page see what's what the bills are.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Awesome?
Speaker 4 (36:09):
So I see I saw on the top the one
you know, protecting babies who have Down syndrome from abortion.
I feel like that's a pretty common sense UH law
or bill to be proposed.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So that that would be great to see that past.
And I know you mentioned that you testified against the
bill that would ban abortion abortion pill reversal, and I
think that's crazy because we've talked about this in other episodes,
but abortion peal reversal has saved thousands of babies throughout
the country for women who just decided that they didn't
(36:43):
want to go through with an abortion and they wanted
to have their baby, and it's completely safe and it's
literally just hormone hormone that you're obvious already making. So
I think that's crazy that they want to ban that.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, if you if they're if you're stopping a woman
from reversing her abortion, you're taking away her choice to
choose life. You are you're forcing her to choose abortion. Yeah,
(37:58):
it seems like the the opponents to abortion pill, the
opponents to abortion pill reversal, are just not wanting to
let these children live.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
I can't figure out why they oppose it, because it's
you know, if we do as I believe, you know,
if we think of abortion as an industry, if you
really want to look at it this way, the abortion
has already been paid for. You know, if a woman
goes into planned parenthood and requests a chemical abortion, she
(38:33):
puts her money down, takes the pills, and they don't
ever see her again. You know, their their part is done.
So I can't figure out why they would oppose something
that is choice, it is reproductive choice, and yet it
is so much it is so much opposed among them.
And actually, one thing that we talked about today during
(38:54):
the hearing and I'll mention it now for your viewers.
Massachusetts Citizens for Life is fortunate that one of our
board members has a master's in bioethics and he has
a strong interest in abortion pill reversal. So he created
a website that is specifically intended for legislators, for the media,
(39:18):
for critics, for those who want more information and who
want the science behind abortion pill reversal. So the site
is actually called abortion APR science dot com, So I
don't know if you want to pull that up, but
it's got loads and loads of peer reviewed research and
(39:41):
studies from around the world that really do underscore the
safety of abortion pill reversal, the success the potential success
of abortion pill reversal, and you know, these are from
pretty renowned scienceists on the international scale. And so he
(40:03):
worked very hard to put this site together, and we
just launched it about a year and a half ago,
and the web traffic is amazing. We haven't even done
any advertising or anything. It's just sort of it's available
and we you know, we post a bit on x
about this, but we've got traffic from from all over
the world from people who are learning more about APR.
(40:27):
So it's great.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
That's super cool. Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, I definitely will use this website you know, when
I'm talking to people as well, So that's that's wonderful.
So yeah, no, thank you for sharing all that, and yeah,
definitely everyone go to the Legislative Action Center on Massachusettsans
for Life's website and you can submit testimony either for
these bills or opposing them, depending on what they are.
(40:52):
And the testimony is pretty much already pre made for you,
so it makes it easy. I would recommend adding your
own personal message. That always helps. But that's awesome that
you guys have that. So we're kind of getting to
the end of time. But you know, mRNA, I did
just want to ask just like one last question for
(41:12):
you know, obviously, as we've talked about, Massachusetts is a
is a hard state, a difficult state to be pro life,
and sometimes and speaking out can be hard. So what
would be your advice to just the everyday person or
even the young the young person who is pro life
in Massachusetts and is scared and doesn't really know how
(41:35):
to how to take the next step and how to
speak out for life.
Speaker 5 (41:40):
Well, the thing that finally put me over the edge
in terms of realizing that it was okay to speak
about this issue, speak out for life, even as a minority,
even though I was probably going to be uh, you know,
struck down for it in some way. I just realized
(42:04):
one day, very simply that I'm not the one who's
trying to take a life. I'm not on the side
that's trying to spread lies to women to make a profit.
And once you realize those truths, then there's nothing stopping you.
There's no reason to not become involved, to not use
(42:29):
your voice. Because the thing I realized too, I stayed
silent for decades because I was too scared, or I
thought that other people were dealing with this, or I
thought that voting was enough, when the reality is, especially
in a state like Massachusetts, if we don't speak out,
(42:51):
nobody will, and those babies and those mothers are left
completely unsupported and unrepresented. And so it's our duty. We
have a responsibility to protect and defendable, vulnerable human life,
and and that's what it comes down to. So on
a professional level or a personal level, I just really
(43:13):
encourage people to just just learn, you know, even four
or five basic facts about abortion, what it does long term,
or about fetal development when a baby feels pain, you know,
the very very basic facts and not be afraid to
bring them up in conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
That's great advice.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I like that. Oh, definitely, we have the truth on
our side. That's right, that's right, that's wonderful. And then
one last thing is, I know you guys have a
young adult group and that might be a good way
for you know, those in Massachusetts and maybe you don't
have pro life peers, a pro life community, or maybe
(43:54):
out out of college to get involved in pro life work.
So how can could you tell us a little bit
more about the young adult group that you guys have
in me is for life?
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Yes, it's so much fun. We started this chapter about
three years ago with a few meetups outside Boston just
at local pubs, just to get people together, young professionals,
so either in college or just out of college, who
were pro life and really didn't know where they could
go that was welcoming, and so we created opportunities for
(44:26):
them to do just that. And these meetups have grown,
the chapter itself has grown. We are holding events outside
of Boston now. We held one in the Cape a
couple of weeks ago, and now the young adults themselves
are starting to plan their own events outside of meeting
at pubs, they're starting to volunteer at pregnancy resource centers.
(44:48):
They've put flyers out on cars on a number of
different occasions, you know, just basic, respectful informational flyers about
what pregnancy is centers do, because that's something that we've
had to work very hard on here in Massachusetts. But
the young adults have taken that as their project, and
(45:09):
their next project will be to hold events in the
western part of the state, partnering with a pregnancy resource
center because specifically on public university campuses, the abortion pill
is mandated in every health center, and so we want
to start informing students about pregnancy resource centers in their area.
(45:33):
And so these are events that the young adults will
start having in the fall.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Awesome, that's that's great and people can find they can
find more information. I'm assuming on your website, right, is
that is that the best way to get in contact
for the young adult group.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
The best way to reach the young adult group is
to send just a simple email to action at mass
Citizens ProLife dot org and then we'll direct we'll direct
interested parties from there.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Awesome, well, wonderful, Well, thank you so much, Rna, and yeah,
thanks for coming on the show. And yeah, if people
want to, you know, just learn more. In general, I
know you guys have your website it's mass Citizens for
Life dot org. And then you're also on Instagram it's
at mass pro life. And then are you on any
(46:22):
other social media platforms as well.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
We're on LinkedIn, We're on x Facebook and I think
that's it awesome YouTube on YouTube on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yes, well, thank you again, thank you for sharing everything
you did.
Speaker 5 (46:41):
You're doing my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
You guys are doing great work.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
So thank you and thank you for having me. It
was it was a pleasure to speak with you both.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
You too, Thank you already.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
God bless you all.
Speaker 5 (46:53):
Well, thank you to take care you have you?
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh yes, you soon. So you want to share your
life for me Bible verse.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Well, i'll share the one that miRNA shared with us
before we started. She shared from Luke twenty one, verse twelve.
But before all this, they will lay their hands on
(47:44):
you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues
and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
For my namesake, this.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Will be your opportunity to bear witness settle it. Therefore
in your minds, not to meditate beforehand how to answer,
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which
none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or contradict.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
So hm hmm, that's beautiful verse.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
That Jesus will give us the mouth and wisdom to
go to speak against our adversaries, and they will not
even be able to contradict what they hear as the truth.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
So yeah, well that's great. That'scond here what I picked
you if you'd like the I picked some one twenty
seven three through five, which is, sons are indeed a
heritage from the Lord, the fruit.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Of the womb of reward.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, are the
sons of one's youth. Happy as the man who has
his quiver full of them, he shall not be put
to shame when he speaks with his enemies. In the
in the gate, it's really just talking about you know,
the importance of children and how yeah they're really you know,
just show your worth and your your inheritance. So yeah,
(49:14):
I want to show that the you know, children and
the fruit of your womb is mentioned so much in
the Bible. So it just really is how so important life.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So right, So having children, you won't be put to
shame in the in the public so exactly. Yeah, probably,
yeah garner some respect for being a father or something
like for raising kids. So all right, absolutely, well, thanks
(49:46):
for joining us, everybody.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Yeah, have a good week. See you next week.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Thank you for listening to the Ever Living Podcast.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
If you have scripture questions or things you'd like to share,
please feel free to email us that fever Livingpod at
gmail dot com. Also make sure to follow us on
Instagram at ever dot living podcast. And if you like
this podcast, please make sure to subscribe and share with
a friend and give us a five star review.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
See you next week. May God bless you and be
very near to you, and may you
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