184. Novice Nyads (and intense women)

Christine and Emily just can’t seem to stay out of the water. This week, it’s a pair of recent sporty stories about determined women and people they inspire/enrage. Join us for 2021’s The Novice (streaming on Kanopy and Netflix) and 2023’s Nyad (Netflix). WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO SAY ABOUT HOW IT’S OKAY TO SET GOALS AND ACHIEVE THEM AND OKAY SOMETIMES ALSO TOXIC. It’s a journey. Put on your swim cap and hop in!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Weird, weird.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm come with me.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
The same wave is always green there and some body
oakes's leg. You dream more about God, bring up there,
but that is a big mustay, and just not get
the worlds all around you right here on the ocean floor.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Such wonderful things all around you. What long is you
looking for?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Feminine Critique.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
I'm Emily, I'm Christine.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
And this is one of those episodes where we're doing
that thing that we initially figured we'd do as a podcast,
which is where we talk about two movies.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
We're doing it and the.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Last time we talked we went over do you remember
the topic?

Speaker 4 (01:10):
It was movies on boats?

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Movies on boats.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So it was very nautical, it was very quet and
it just put me in a mood. I guess I
didn't want to get out of the water. Around that time,
I joined a gym, mostly so that I could use
the pool and swim, and so I was just like
suddenly in like a swimmy mood. I'm like, you know,
I kind of want to rewatch Naiad because I really
liked it and I want to watch it again, and I

(01:34):
really wanted Christina I don't wonder if Christine's watched it yet.
Wait a minute, why should do an episode? Oh, there's
that other movie about swimming that Christine always recommended to me.
That's also about an intense woman in the water. And
then I watched it and realized it wasn't actually about swimming,
it was about rowing. But that's okay because they are
such a good pairing. And what's the other movie, Christine.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
The Novice, Yes, starring Isabelle Furman. In case there's multiple novices.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Out there, Well, there are probably many novices, as we know,
there aren't many Naiads, but we know there are a
lot of novices technically, but there is only one is
Belle Furman.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Well we'll get there. Yeah, I think I'm gonna have
more to say about one than the other.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I have so much to say about both. These are movies.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Both of these we are going to, I think, go
into a whole dig of detail. And I mean they're like,
they're not really that spoilered movies, especially Niad, which is
like it's based on.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
So much true story, so it's it's there.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
But still we're gonna go into a lot of detail
because I think I don't know I have kind of
I was shocked by how strong my feelings were on
both of these watches, and it just I think both
of them hit me at like a particular time in life,
which I mean is like you know now where I
just realized like, oh this. These are movies about women
that very much speak to me in different ways, and

(02:55):
they have a lot in common. Just again, both on
the water, both about very intense, determined women who are
not necessarily the most likable bells of the ball that
you would want to spend time with. Both queer movies
in different ways. Just exciting, too exciting movies. I think

(03:16):
Naiads on Netflix and Novice is also on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I think maybe is it.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
I'm not sure where.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm definitely on a streamer. I am pretty sure right
now it's Netflix. It's moved a lot of times. It
was on Hulu for a while. I believe right now
it's there. But either way, both of these are findable, rentable,
all of that, and I.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Am a big fan of both, so I might have
watched it on Canopy honestly, so it might be. It
might be right Canopy.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
It is definitely on Canopy. Yes, I think the TV
I was on had access to Netflix and not Canopy,
so I watched it that way.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
But you are correct.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
It is around though, yes, point yes.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
And nia it's twenty twenty three and the novis twenty
twenty one, so kind of closely made together. The twenty
twenties are the era of determined women athletes in the water.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Has that?

Speaker 4 (04:03):
I guess?

Speaker 5 (04:03):
So?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah, I guess that's what the twenty twenties will be
known for.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Let's hope.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know we've got We've got five years left. I
feel like we could do this. We could keep cranking
out these kinds of movies. There are other sports on
the water, right, There is I don't know, like sailing,
there is triathlon. There's other ways we could we could
make this happen.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Ri stand water polo? Isn't that the watery?

Speaker 6 (04:27):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
A water polo movie could be Has there been a
water polo movie?

Speaker 4 (04:31):
I don't even know what water polo is? Is it?
Are they on horses?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
No? Not no, but I wish, Oh my, now I
am picturing like seahorse water polo and it's adorable.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Well, right, isn't that what the child's brain wants to make?
Water polo? If you know what polo is.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
It makes perfect sense. Water polow is really weird, if
you It is one of those sports that I think
is very not cinematic. It's funny because we were I'm so,
we have the TV on the other day and beach
volleyball was on, and I'm watching it. I'm like, you know,
the thing about like I get, like you know, from
many people, the appeal of beach volleyball is that it's
women wearing very tiny clothing, which I get, and they're

(05:10):
hot and they're athletic and it's amazing. But the thing
about beach volleyball, I'm like, I think beach volleyball is
the most cinematic of any sport because I can see.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
That because I've actually, I've actually watched a decent amount
of beach volleyball for not nefarious purposes. But like I
grew up much like you, in the time where sometimes
the Olympics would just be.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
On yep, especially in the summer.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, and there are just some things that I could
not hang with, like even being in the room with.
But I have seen a fair amount of beach volleyball
because it's it's exciting to watch, it's.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
So exciting at moves really fast. Every single interaction is
a point, so it's going everything matters, and I think
the actually the way because it is a fairly small
by some standards of space. You could see everything always
like you. You know, you can cut to different angle,
but it's all in view. You understand what everybody is doing.

(06:03):
And it's not a sport you have to learn, whereas
the sports of today, I think are very different. On
the movies we will be talking about. You can't remember
how I got to beach volleyball, but there was a
point there somewhere, which is.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
We love it. It's great.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, yes, the best sport. There are beach volleyball movies.
There is one, and it's killing me that I can't
remember the name. Married with Clickers discovered it and it's
it's a Brian Austin Green beach volleyball movie where he
plays impact Point. Okay, impact Point is great. So there
is a beach volleyball movie. I don't know if there's

(06:39):
a water polo movie. Oh, so water polo it's like
they're all very tall people and they are in like
a six foot pool or so, so they can't really
touch the bottom of it. So they're like waiting the
entire time they have to float. They're constantly like you
can't see me coming non video, but they're like their
little hands are like flapping back and they look a
little chickens like they're hands are flapping back and forth.

(07:01):
They are wiggling their legs to stay above water. And
then every now and then they are hitting the ball.
But it's not like fluid because they're passing it. It's
not like basketball where it's constantly moving and you're moving
with the ball. No, you have to throw the ball.
You can't hold it for more than two seconds. You
should not sit to somebody else. Then you spike it.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's weird. It's not cinematic at all.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
It sounds volleyballish. I guess maybe I've seen people do that,
but I just thought they're playing volleyball in the pool.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah. No, that's that's water polo with sadly without horses.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Why'd they call it that? Look, this is at Guadipolo cast.
But I do have a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
No, I think we need to change the whole mission
of this show.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
Let's change the format. That's right, It's gonna last very
long because I don't think there's much to talk about.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Well, in two.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
More years we'll get get a summer Olympics, so you
know that's when we're gonna.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Shine nice, all right.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
So Naiad, directed by Jimmy Chin and Elizabeth chall of
Uzzer Helly, apologize for that. They I believe our had
I think this is their first like narrative film. They
were documentary filmmakers who did what was it? Was it
free free solo?

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah? I saw that in there because I went and looked. Obviously,
this is like clearly a movie with a budget with
two names unfamiliar to me. So I'm gonna go and
look you. I would say their backgrounds aided them quite
a bit, and the filming of.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
This movie, I I would agree, Why don't you tell
everybody what this movie is about?

Speaker 4 (08:30):
So this is apparently about a lady named Diana and
Naiad who used to swim across large bodies of water.
I knew nothing of this. And then she was gonna
do this really like big deal one key West to
Cuba or vice versa, I don't remember. But then it

(08:50):
didn't go well like at all, and she was I
think twenty eight, and then she was like not packing
it in, didn't go well, then decides at sixty she's
gonna do it, which seems like a strange time to
do it. There were a lot of years between twenty
eight and sixty for her to decide to do it,
but she didn't until she was sixty. Yeah, and that's

(09:11):
where this movie picks up, essentially, So if you have
no idea who this person is, like I did, it
picks up when she's sixty deciding to do this and
then going out to do this. But there's a lot
of and look, I read some reviews, some people have
mixed feelings on this. A lot of old archival footage
of this actual stuff. So if you didn't know what

(09:34):
happened back when she was, you know, twenty eight, trying
to do it the first time, there's a lot of
context provided for you. I found it helpful and I
thought it grounded it in a really nice reality.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I agree. I think the this is where I didn't
even think about it. But you're right about the whole
Like these being documentary filmmakers who understand how to work
with a lot of different footage.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah, you could tell it. Yeah, they seamlessly kind of
put there so there's flashback elements that are obviously created
for the film, but then any of her actual like
athletic pursuit, yes worthy archival footage was her. And then
there's interview stuff I don't know for me that like
added to it that might agree hair in a way

(10:20):
that without it I might have had trouble connecting. You know.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, And I.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Never felt like, oh, I'm watching a different actress do this,
because I mean that like any movie where you're doing
a flashback, right, you have either done one of two things,
you have either cast somebody young or especially now, you
are doing that creepy digital d age thing, which is

(10:44):
uncanny and weird and I hate it. So I didn't
want them to take and at Benning and like, Okay,
we're gonna smooth out all of her wrinkles and have
her as a twenty eight year old. Like, no, this
works perfectly because we see Naya. Then the end of
the movie does the thing that I think a lot
of like based on true stories, movies do that I

(11:05):
always find funny, which is the I forget. I think
it's Leam Bibiani who said this first of the like,
look how good our wigs were montage where at the
end it's like, here's the real people and you're like, oh, wow,
they really look like them.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Or they didn't.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
But it doesn't because I think you see it in
the beginning. That doesn't bother me at all. And it
does make sense that look. And Neette Benning is in
her sixties. We're not gonna see her in her twenties
doing this, but yet we have footage.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Why not use it?

Speaker 2 (11:30):
And we know it's a movie, it's fine. We also
it's a net Benning like. I think that's the other thing.
It's it's these aren't unknowns like and in my joy
in this movie is is Jodie Foster.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Jodi Foster?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Jodi Foster in this movie the entire movie, I'm watching
it like, and it's not that Jodi Foster can't be
a chameleon, but Jodi Foster is a movie star.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Disappears, she disappears.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
And in this movie, though, what I love about it
is I the entire movie I'm watching this, It's felt
like True Detective in that way where I'm like, I
never forgot this was Jodi Foster, but it was like
I have never seen Jody Foster do this, and there
is something about her performance in this movie. I think
because it is so gay that it feels like Jody
Foster is cutting loose and having fun and like has

(12:18):
found this like inner like kind of magic of this
character in what she's doing.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah, I I both of them obviously, Andet Betting and
Jodi Foster are fantastic. Every time I see Annett Betting,
I have to remember how good she is. I don't
know why. It's just I have that experience with her,
and like I do stand by. I think for me,
Jody Foster disappears, but not in the way where you're like,

(12:46):
this is a transformative performance, but in the way where
you're like, well, this is just who Jodi Foster is.
Ben right.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
It feels like the most natural performance I've ever seen,
But I don't know that it is.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
It just it feels that way.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
No, No, that's that's like Zach and I we watched
it together and there was a moment where I was like,
I have to keep reminding myself that this isn't just
Jodie Foster hanging out, that she's making choices and this
is acting, because it feel it felt very lived in
and very natural, and same with an at Betting though too.
So when you had them both together, it's like, are
these two just two people talking? Like it's just two

(13:21):
people having a discussion. It's not. It didn't feel like
a movie, which I think added to that whole, like
and now here's some real footage.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, and because it's not, especially in an At Benning's case,
it's not that like they're playing very normal people like
I think, I mean, Jodie Foster is, you know, the
more kind of grounded character, and Jodi Foster is a
Naiad's best friend and then coach or treat and but
it's it's a j Jody Foster, and this is a

(13:49):
little bit more grounded as a person, whereas Naiad is
this larger than life like an Et Betting is is
doing such work.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
In this movie.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
And like I mean, there's a physical aspect because you
can tell she can put in the hours and and
did the training and did this.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
To her body.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
But also she is something that I think Benning has
done a lot in her career and I haven't. I
don't know they put it together until now she can
play an asshole and so a glorious.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Asshole in this movie.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
She's a lovable asshole. But she's an asshole.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yep, yeah, one hundred percent. She's deeply unlikable yep, like
really unlikable. And and I think that's I mean, it's
we all know it, Like it's the point of the
movie to r I and I will say that I
never it was never enough to be like, well, I'm

(14:45):
just not interested in going along with this because I
think all of the really air quotes bad behavior is uh,
super justified or understandable. And every time you're like, and
I don't know if you felt this way, but every
time it was like she this needs to stop, Like
this is ridiculous. At this point, there would be some

(15:06):
ridiculous thing about like like autonomy and like aging and
like and you know, like yeah, fuck, who cares, Just.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Go do it? Just do it? Yeah, yeah, No, That's
why I think this, Like, when this movie came out,
it was very it was positioned very much as kind
of like big oscar this that, and the reactions to
it sort of like ebbed and flowed because I think
a lot of people took it as a very traditional
sports narrative, very feel good, very that. But I think
it's so much deeper than a lot of that because this, yeah, ultimately,

(15:40):
like spoiler alert, she does it right. It's the every
every up and down like it does lead to a
final up and a final Uh. It was the friends
I made along the way type type understanding. But throughout
that like, you're exactly right like you And again, how
many movies about men doing this have we seen? Like
that's the whole thing about male athletes is that usually

(16:02):
they are also terrible people. And but with this, like
you're right every time you are rooting for her to
do this, and you are also thinking, now, she should
get out of the water. But I mean there's a
moment early on that kind of the first because the
third character we really should discuss is I can I
don't know how to say his name.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
How do you say this, this lovely British man's name.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Uh, it's Fond's I think it's if that's who the
man is that I'm thinking of. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty
sure that's how you say it. You know, I'm not
known for my pronunciation.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
So he is the navigator, right, and he is a
like a Florida guy, a boat guy, very kind of
salt of the earth, and he is you know, basically
a key element in getting this done because there's there's
her swimming this ridiculous amount of time, but he is
the one who is saying which way to go and
how fast they have to go and all that, and
there's you know, and early on where Jodi Foster is,

(17:02):
because Jodi Foster and him are sort of you know,
the kind of bubble around Naiad and they have this
like great moment where they kind of get together and
like Jody Foster is kind of explaining like, look, this
is crazy, this is insane. I can't believe she's doing this.
And yeah, she's not the best person in the world
and she's a pain and they asked to be around.
But my god, like, do you understand how cool it

(17:25):
is to be a part.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Of this Like that just for me, that gives me
the chills.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, it it. This is this felt and this is
like a compliment, not like a takedown, but it felt
very much like a like a buy the book script
in that regard, Like every time there was like it's
it was almost like a call in response of like
why the hell, right, this is why?

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Or what are you?

Speaker 4 (17:50):
This is why? Like yeah, every time it would answer
it and yeah, it's kind of like this is because
they say it over and over again, like nobody's getting paid.
There's no money, where do it for love of the
game essentially, so the movie never lets you forget the stakes,
I suppose is kind of what I'm saying. And I
think that's important for something like this because it if

(18:11):
you did, it would just be like this pointless dalliance
to to like boost this person's ego, but like it
was bigger than that. And I and I will say
the thesis of the movie is t mark. That was
a little like cringing. Yeah, but I do understand that
even though this is based on a true story and

(18:33):
based on a person's we'll talk about the book thing.
But you do need again, like because it is a
script for a movie, you need a payoff, you need
a resolution. And if we all know that she was
able to do it, like if you because you might
know that going.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
You know she's alive, you know it was news.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
They like, so she she did it, So having there
be like an additional secondary background payoff of like, you know,
I learned that it's not just me, and you might
want to say that, well, that feels really convenient for
the wrap up of this movie. But then when you
watch at the end, they have her some speaking engagement
or whatever, and she literally says that, Yeah, it's like

(19:16):
that is truly what she fucking learned from this. So yeah,
hackey or not, it's it's a realistic representing.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
And I think her like her career outside of swimming
was like motivational speaker. Yeah, yeah, she was somebody that
like a corporate office or like a conference would hire
to come be the keynote speaker and like, and you
see a little bit in the movie where she's doing
like slide shows and it's kind of used to effect
of like showing how when she's sad, but it really

(19:43):
like and that's something good to me is always fascinating
because I'm again I'm a big, like specific athlete fan,
and I think of and I know all the work
involved in what they do, and then then you realize, like,
but the actual elite level of getting paid to do
that is so so yeah, what do you do for work?
And and your career window is usually so short, So

(20:04):
it's always interesting to see, like, oh, athletes in like
how do they manage?

Speaker 1 (20:09):
And with Niad, the fact that because she is so.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Bullish and arrogant and egocentric, and I mean, and again,
I something I love about the movie is the movie
is absolutely agreeing that she's an asshole.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, and the movie it's not the case.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
And this, I mean, we talk a lot about these,
the exhaustion of movies about great men, right because you're
watching your like, but you're just a jerk, like, and
it's not entertaining to watch a guy be awful. But
yet he was a really good physicist, so we're gonna
give himn oscar like and with this, like it's yeah,
she's a jerk, and the movie knows that.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
And even the way.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Like she constantly will talk about her the origin of
her name and what it means, and it's used to
very very funny effect, like every time it starts, like
after the first time, you realize, oh no, every character
knows when she's off on this Oh no, she's going
too that zone and like yes, and it is like
screenwriting one oh one to have that tie up at
the end where she kind of has a moment of

(21:13):
realization of like, that's not even my name, Like it's bullshit.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
And yes, So I was wondering because you brought that up.
Did you read the Are you familiar with the You did.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Not read the book.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
I know a little bit about the I know enough
to know that there's a lot of like the details
of this and even the actual swim was ultimately like
not registered as official because of some data stuff, and
who know, Like I know that much, but I but
what else can you tell me? What else did you want?

Speaker 4 (21:45):
I didn't learn anything. I was more asking. I thought
that that was a wild choice. So she does the
thing where she she does like, my my last name
is Naiad and it means this water nimph thing, and
that means that I'm the only one that can do this,
and like to the point where it's obnoxious. Yeah, And
then I would say, like we're almost we're almost done

(22:06):
with this fucking movie. We got like maybe a quarter
of it left. And she just decides to tell us
that that's not even her like last name from birth,
not that that necessarily matters to this, but like it's
just such a revelation and it's like so laughable, and
I wanted I was so curious where she tells you that,
like in the narrative of the book, if she waited

(22:28):
that long to tell you in the book, because it's
fucking it's stellar. It's so it's it's shocking, it's funny,
it's enraging, but it's also like understandable because it's like
she built this, this this mythos up out of nothing,
even it's not based in truth, but like it doesn't

(22:49):
make it any less real to her. I know, it's
very interesting.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Well, and I love it because there's that other side
of it of like for an athlete like this particular,
particularly when it is a like singular sport, right it's
on a team sport and the sort of like pro
wrestler persona that you end up taking on And it

(23:14):
doesn't happen to everybody, but I think part of it
is once you become famous and you're not really equipped
to be famous, and so you kind of have to
you know, sound bites start turning into you know, the
media starts turning into something that it.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Makes sense that you would like.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
And again I think the whole her dad or her
stepdad like saying like this is this is your name,
this is what you were born to do. I think
that is accurate. I think she has talked about that
and the and it makes sense that you would then
like put this armor on, especially when you learn in
the movie and something that I also think is kind
of handled, Like I think it is important and I

(23:52):
think it's probably something that connects to a lot of people,
but I think it's a little clunky in the movie,
which is that these other flashbacks where you learn that
her like for like real coach sectually abused her, and
so there's like these elements of sort of her swimming
is sort of like, I don't know that it's a
safe place, but like this is where she is in charge,

(24:13):
this is where she can do this.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
And when she gets out, she also has to give interviews.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
And become like a celebrity to do endorsements because you've
got to pay for all this stuff somehow. So I
don't know, I'm I that to me is always fascinating
of these sort of masks you have to wear, because
I think the flip of that. I think this comes
up a bit in the next movie we'll talk about
is I Am again. Most of its figure skating, right,

(24:40):
I'm a huge figure skating fan. I watch everything about it,
I read everything about it.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
And one of the most.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Fascinating things to me is when like you will watch
an incredible program. You will see the sort of like
packaged like documentary about how hard they work, and you
watch them train and then they give an interview right after,
and usually it's like they're off the eye, so they're
out of breath and it's like, what were you thinking
about when you landed that axle? And they're like in

(25:05):
the highest, like chirpiest voice you can imagine, I just
wanted to do a good job for my country. Like
rarely do they have interesting things to say because their
work and fucking heart, they're training a lot, they're exercising
a lot. Some of them are very well read and
very interesting and this. But like, also, you don't have
to be like you are putting all of your energy

(25:27):
into this thing that requires a different hype of thing,
and it often makes you a very uninteresting person. So
the idea that you would put on this sort of
you know, mascot type thing, to.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Me makes perfect sense. And I like that.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like, in some ways, Niad is a very dull person, right,
we see her at a party and she's insufferable. But
in the other way, it's like, oh yeah, but you
have to nobody is like her.

Speaker 4 (26:00):
Yeah, there is an element of like, it's interesting because
it really tests your i don't know, patience with the
character or just patience in general, because it's it is
objectively fucking obnoxious to have kind of an obnoxious person
tell you over and over again how great they are

(26:20):
and how they're the only one that can do something,
and then when you find out that that's kind of
true though, it's like wow, and I'm gonna be so
for real right now, that is kind of uncommon and
I don't want to gender it, but like, it's really
uncommon for somebody to be so fucking loud telling you

(26:42):
that they can do something and then they actually literally
are the only one that can do it or they
are the best. It is a strange thing to kind
of to deal with as an experiencer of this, you know,
experience for being shown because you want to be like, okay, lady,
you're sixty three, get out of the water. If you

(27:02):
get sung by another jellyfish, you're gonna straight up die.
All of these people are putting all of their free
time and energy into coddling you and what you want
to do, and then you're like no, but actually she
kind of was right, she's the only one that can
do this, and everybody's band around her to help her. Yeah,
it's it's tough to balance. It's a complex story, I guess.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeahh Now, in some ways, did you see tar.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Yeah? I did, okay right when it came out. I
might not remember it.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Okay, because I watched it not a couple of months ago,
And there's like I realized I was thinking a lot
about it this watch of it, And because it's like
a similar in some ways, like there's another kind of
tie in there where it's a like a woman who
has done things that nobody else has it or can do,
and how much do you forgive a lot like let

(27:55):
go when you see how good they are at something,
but when you also realize, you know, maybe they're not
the best person. And it's very different into our right,
like yeah, she's actually an abuser in different ways, whereas
a Nayad, like she's just a jerk, right, Like, at
least from the movie. From the story we see of Nayad,
it's just that she is kind of a bad friend.
She is just not a great person. But she's also

(28:18):
you understand why, like you you'd want to be around
her like you, you know, you would, especially if you
were somebody like Jodie Foster in this movie, like you
would feed off that energy. That energy would thrill you
and fulfill you. And like I get it so much.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
Yeah, definitely it and it's it's there's a there's a
bit of it that's annoying. It's annoying that she's right
and it's true and and and then it's then you
kind of have to start thinking about it in a
gendered way of like if this, if she weren't a woman,
would she have to fucking yell about it so much?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, And I think the movie isn't it's because it's
it has to toe a line because it's so could
have been much. I think, like more obvious about that. Yeah,
and Niah only like she only says it a couple
of times where she does point out like, well, it's
also because I'm a woman that I'm not allowed to
say these things.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
And I think the move too in the movie's credit.
I think it.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
I don't think it like pushes that.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Harder than it has to. For sure.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
I think other stuff, there's enough other stuff going on
that they don't need to hang their hat on that
it's obviously part of the text subtech. It's obviously there,
I mean, but like to put it in our faces,
I don't. I think we would have lost out on
other more nuanced than that the movie was doing.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, And I think in terms of just being like
a sports movie, I think it's great. The music in
this movie is so like, oh good swelling score like
it's it gets yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Uh yeah. It definitely not even close to being one
of my favorite sports movies at all. I like it
more than I expected to. The opening credits are great.
They do a lot of little graphics and text on
the screen that's all handled really pretty and nice.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Travel them out.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, it's very attractive. It's an attractive film. Obviously. The
performances are fantastic. There's a lot of great night scenes
that are lit really dynamically and fun. Water scary, and
they make water look scary.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And it's so hard to do that. Like, that's a
lot of swimming, Christine, Oh god, that so.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Like obviously in at Betting didn't swim for like twenty
four or whatever. However, well, I don't even know how
many times they say nine thousand miles. It wasn't of
like twenty four miles. It's not twenty four miles. Obviously
she didn't swim that entire length NonStop, because it's a
film that broad was in the water swimming so fucking

(31:02):
so much, so much.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
And let me tell you, like I've started swimming again,
like for exercise, and I was so excited because like
and then again this movie kind of popped me up
for it. And the like second day I go to
the gym to do it, I'm like feeling so good.
I'm like, yeah, all right, great, Okay, I'm pretty tired
wearing dass.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I'm like halfway done. Right, I've been doing this for
like thirty minutes. I'm almost done.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
I look at the clock. I had been swimming for
six minutes.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
Well, I mean it takes time to get in there.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
And there is a moment in this film it is
it is the last swim when like they realized like
they're gonna do it, Like they've passed the hard part.
They're got it, and Jodie Foster you know, goes and
calls and I had over and I had like at
this point, like brain dead right there, She's got nothing
in her in her brain anymore.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
And Jodie Foster's like, look, look you got this. We
are so close.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
You can see the horizon, the home stretch.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
You were at the end. You have twelve miles to go.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Was it twelve miles or twelve hours?

Speaker 4 (32:01):
It's a lot. It's a lot swimming, yeah, she And
because to you too, as a viewer, you're like, oh,
they can see they can see the city, they can
see it. That must mean they're almost done. No, no,
not at all. It's like it's it's I couldn't. I
could maybe swim for like two minutes. So it's unfathomable

(32:26):
to me. Sometimes she'll just like be in the water
and I'm like, how is she not drowning? I don't
understand swimming in water. It's confusing to me, but it it.
I think the impressive thing is that the way the
movie is filmed and the way that an Ftic performs
it all looks as easy as it should at any
given moment, and then obviously, when it's not supposed to

(32:46):
look easy, it does when it looks awful and terrifying.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
But.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
So like at one point she just starts swimming away
from the boat. It was so fucking terrifying to me.
And it's just just swimming into the open ocean in
the middle of a storm, away from the boat, and
I was like, pack it up, everybody, I'm done here.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, I don't even think I can watch it, because, like,
if you have ever worked out to like like the
point of ridiculousness, like like where you've done like for me,
like the biggest thing was probably been like I've done
half marathons where like it's like, oh my god, almost
three hours and I'm dead, and like you hit a
point where like your brain goes somewhere and.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
It is not this planet. And she's doing it for
like days.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's wild.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
It's it's extremely wild, and so yes, hallucinations and getting
turned around, all of it makes complete and total sense.
A brave person with an interesting relationship with the water
that I cannot relate to in any way.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
But yeah, I'm I'm really glad you watched it. I
just always thought it would be something that would be
up your alley.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
Yeah, no, totally. It was, like you can't. Anybody that
says that this is not a good movie is not
being genuine. It is. It's very well put together, very
well directed, the performances, every element is like here to
make it a good movie. It just is whether it's
whether or not you connect with it or like how
you're able to engage with it. And I think for

(34:22):
me personally, there was a bit of it that felt
and I don't know if this is maybe because of
the source material it is based on is probably written
from a kind of ego driven perspective. I'm just guessing
it did feel a little bit ego driven to me.
With that said, look if I did that, I would

(34:44):
probably have a fucking high opinion on myself too. It's
just maybe not the most accessible way to come at
the story about of someone who's very pleased with themselves.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
So overall, would you recommend nayat? Oh?

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Absolutely. Any Any issues I have is knee splitting hairs
and and probably based on personal preference.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, yeah, And I don't think it's a perfect movie,
but it's to me, it's like I think, there's you
have Jodie. If you're a Jodie Foster fan, that's so
good and you have a great, great performance.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
For that metting it gets you going.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Uh, it's just to me, it's if you are in
any way somebody who like will kind of feel that
fire in your stomach with a good sports movie. I
think this one just like a good one.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Mm hmmm. I recommend yes.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
So we will take a quick break and come back
and talk about a different type of sports movie. Mm hmmm.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Howe.

Speaker 7 (36:42):
Everything that's a nominee, all of it sweet.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
And we're back.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So the Novice is the flip where you had seen
this and I had not seen it.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
Correct the money, I watched it because I'm in Isabelle
for and super.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Fans, Oh my god. And for those who don't know,
we're talking orphan, we're talking the orphan herself.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
And I believe I did speak pretty highly.

Speaker 8 (37:08):
Of it when we When I I always remember you did,
because I remember always having it on my radar for
like three years now and just never sitting down and
watching it, but always knowing I needed to yeah it.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
So the funny thing is, though I didn't have much
of a memory of it, Like I knew I liked it,
and I knew it was good, you know, and but
like I didn't have certain beats in my head, like
if you had asked me broadly what it was about.
I think I might have missed some of the points
in it, so it was good to rewatch from me too.

(37:40):
And now I will personally say, having watched it twice,
if I went to look at the of twenty twenty
one when it came out, it's probably one of the
best movies of twenty twenty one. For me, it's and
this the writer director has like nothing upcoming.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I'm very upset about that on her.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
And I am.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
I am heartbroken. This is such a fucking singular vision.
Now when I've unfortunate or fortunately, I've found myself in
a position to be reading a lot of screenwriting books lately.
There are some rules and they're not rules, but they
are rules, and they're not rules unless they decide they are.

(38:20):
So there's something about Naiad that felt very like this
is a fucking buy the book script. And then there's
something about this that says, hey, fuck you, We're gonna
sit here and talk about this for seven minutes and
not move and it's like, oh my god, I love
it so much.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
We're gonna take that rule book and drown it in
the water that we are swimming or boating in at four.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Am ooh doggie. This does some weird shit that I
really appreciated.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
It really does.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Why don't you give everybody a breakdown? And again we're
gonna again. This doesn't feel like a spoil movie because
it is very much about the experience.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
But you can go into as much as he tells.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
You'd like tell everybody what The Novice is about.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
So The Novice is about an obsessive young woman who
I believe has just entered calling.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
She's a freshman and.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Decides to join the rowing team and makes it her
entire personality because she has to be the best at it.
But it's not like in a nice, hopeful way like
how Naiad was. So the thing about this character, and

(39:30):
I think it is part of the synopsis in a
certain way, is that her one of her main character
traits is that she picks what she's going to do
based on how bad she is at So she is
a physics major and physics is her worst subject. I
completely forgot that element of the movie. So when the
movie says to you explicitly, you're a physics major. That's

(39:52):
your worst subject, it's like, laugh out loud funny knowing
how ridiculous this woman is to know that she he
just really sees the harder thing is the more worthwhile
thing to do, and the way that that drives her
is kind of relatable but also really upsetting and toxic.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I had a very weird like experience watching this movie
because I was watching it during like a week where
I was really busy. I just had a lot of
stuff going on at work. I felt responsible for too much,
and like I am somebody that is it's not that
I'm a perfectionist, but it's that if there is something

(40:35):
that could be done to a certain level, it needs
to be done to that certain level, and I will
I take blame if it's not at that level. Like
I take a lot of personal responsibility on things. And
it was just a week where I was I felt
really stressed. I was up late, like on the weekend
doing some stuff because I felt it wasn't where it
needed to be. And I'm watching this and like kind

(40:58):
of real like feeling alone a little bit of this. Oh,
Like I am not a rower. I will never try
to row.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
I will.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I have never been somebody that has been like athletically
like this, although I have done sports and like decided
to do something and like just not given up on
it even when I should have. But there was like
a heavy dose of kind of seeing this version of
that personality that was really really telling. Yeah, And I

(41:32):
don't necessarily think it's a terrible thing. I think, you know,
this movie is giving you a vision of it that
is unhealthy and that is dangerous.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
But also like you no, like.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
This is who she is, like this, Like she's always
going to be this way. It's a matter of finding
what she can be this away about and not you know,
physically hurt herself. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
I one of my notes is I felt targeted by
this movie. And it's not like thing for me. It's
not a specific thing. I think it's just the maybe
the intensity and the single mindedness, and like just in
the way that the thing is too. Though it's not
just that I'm realizing. I think it's also the way

(42:15):
that the character handles it with such like a blase attitude,
like it's nothing to her. Yeah, And and she doesn't
even feel her own impact. She doesn't feel the impact
of the way that she acts because of her single
minded intensity. And I guess maybe that's where I felt
called out, because you can't you can and she does

(42:35):
very much get blinders and and it's like this weird
so like where a Naiad was like she was like
kind of a narcissist because she was so good, like
she's in this film, she's kind of a narcissist because
she's not good and and it's really it's really strange.
Her narcissism comes from like a really ugly destructive place,

(42:56):
and that was really relatable.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, it's it's that she is not.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Naturally gifted in the thing that she is trying to do.
And and like you said, she's not she's it seems
like she is not naturally gifted out a lot of
things that she decides but I want but I want
to do it well. And I think then you see
such a contrast with how she's approaching this and how

(43:22):
the other women on the team are approaching it, because
you have other players who you know are working hard.
Nobody on that team is not working hard, but nobody
is working as hard as she is. And I think
what's what makes this really interesting too, because you have

(43:45):
a character there who is sort of in a way
there to kind of help ground you, and so that
you're kind of constantly thinking what is right, what is wrong?
Because it's the other rower who is like the other
like best young best novice, right, I forget the character's name,
but and like she's working in the beginning, Jamie, I

(44:06):
think it is a character. She's she's there with Alex
clearly like but for her, there's something on the line, right,
she needs a scholarship.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
If she gets on the team, she will get a.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Free ride, whereas Alex already has a free ride. Alex
has an academic scholarship. And you kind of gather that
she comes from money.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
Right, Uh, yeah, a little bit, but even if not,
like within the ecosystem of the school, she already has
a full ride, an academic ride. So she's essentially taking.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Right Jamie Spott in a way. Yeah, And so that
that kind of puts you in a position where you're like, yeah,
you know, like you're kind of naturally inclined to root
for the kid that needs it, and you just you
see a different approach to it, and he just it's
this other thing and again not too related to figures.
Kidding again, but I will because you see it for

(44:58):
the Olympics, right, every Olympics happened every four years. A
million other things are happening throughout those four years. But
what happened this year for figure skating is that you
have a bunch of athletes who have kind of come
out of retirement and said, I'm gonna go to the
I'm coming back for the Olympic season. And of course,
you know, there's a part of you that's like, wow,
that's great, they get to watch my favorite skaters. There's
another part you're like, but this other young team has

(45:20):
been working their asses off for three years and now
you're gonna come in and probably take the spot from them.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, And you sit back.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
And you're like, well, but isn't that sport right? What
it matters at the end of the day is who's
best at this That's who deserves to get the spot.
And I don't know, so it just it throws that
at you too, which I think is just another way
of sort of messing with your head when you watch
this movie.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Yeah it is. It's that narcissism again, because like, who
deserves it is never really in play for her because
she knows she's working hardest. That's the only she goes by.
And and not to like harp too much on a
very specific element of the movie, but my favorite part

(46:07):
of this movie. So Alex is doing her own thing.
I love her. She can do no wrong. Yeah, the best.
So she's doing her own thing. They have end up
having like a row off right for like a specific
seat or whatever on the varsity. Ye think. I don't know.
I didn't go to college.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I didn't quite fully understand the sports aspect of it either.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
But.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
Whatever, they've got to row right. And so essentially they
row one. One woman rows in this boat with this team,
the other one rows in this one with this team,
and then they swap and they like average out the
times to you know, see, you know fairly who's the fastest, right,
But then then the the rest of the team throws

(46:47):
it for Alex. They don't row well for Alex, and you,
as because you're aligned with Alex's entire movie, You're like,
at least me, these motherfuckers, how dare they throw it
so that they could get Brill on the team. How
dare they throw it so that they would hurt Alex
like that? I can't believe that. But then when she
finally confronts Jamie Brill at the at the towards the end,

(47:11):
and she's like, why didn't you win it? Fairly. She
essentially has to tell Alex, I did it's a team
sport and they don't like you.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Or trust you, and it's different.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Yeah, And that, to me is the encapsulation of that
whole fucking movie, because it is it's the same like
for Naya, it's about the teamwork. Alex goes and does
her best, and she does all these solo rows, like
every morning. She does her best, and she works so
fucking hard. But that's not all it is. She is erratic.
She she is like two our discerning eye as a viewer,

(47:44):
we can see even though we like and are aligned
with her, she's not okay, right, So, like if you
were doing team sports with.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
That a lot of.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Absolutely not. I can't rely on that person.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, and that part is not going to be fun
afterwards going for cheese fries, No, it's gonna be like, no, we.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Can have cheese fries. We've been meet tomorrow, Like, no,
I want to choose fries.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
And as stupid as Alex would think that is, that
is part of the team. That's part of the experience
of being on a team. I imagine I wouldn't know,
But like she the fact that she wants to like
speed past that or like erase that aspect of it
is so telling to that character.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, well because it also, I mean it's true of
like any scenario in life, right, there are very few
things that you can become the champion of on your
own entirely, oh for sure, right, Like oh yeah, maybe
you could write a book that is that so long
as you get the right editor who gets it out there. Okay,

(48:48):
but you can't make a movie if you're an asshole.
You're not going to make another one as easily. You can't,
you know, like almost every other you know, most things
in life, like they do require her working with people.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
And if you cannot do that, then that is part
of why.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Like as much as you can be the best at
this thing, but this is an aspect of that thing
and you can't do it.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Yeah, It's it's interesting, It's and I think I I
don't And that's another thing about this movie. I this
is my opinion. I don't know if this character learns anything.
I don't think she does, so I don't know if
she learns that that that that is part part of

(49:34):
the success is the way that you got there and
who you got there with kind of thing. Yeah, like
if you had to, if you had to slice open
your flesh in the shower to get there, maybe it
wasn't worth the journey. But I don't know that she
learns that at the end.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
No, I agree, I because I think this is I mean,
fundamentally who she is, and there is therapy she can
partake in to kind of unravel that and manage it
in a more healthy way. But I think, I mean,
and again I think you think you have this. I

(50:10):
think I I definitely have. I ever tell you about
the time an eye doctor called me intense.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
No, but like it doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, I was taken an eye test and the guy
was asking me like, okay, read the row. And I'm
reading the row and I get you a letter. I'm like, ah,
it's either FERB. He's like, well, which one is it.
I'm like, I'm telling you it's either fer but I
can't I can't tell. He's like, okay, well, I just
need you to just say F. I'm sorry, are you?
And this was the guy he was like, are you
telling me? You're asking him? Like, no, you asked me.

(50:40):
You told me I needed to give you something. I've
told you it's I I cannot tell you what it is.
It's either this or that. It's like, Okay, keep going,
and I do the whole thing. And at the end
of it, he says to me, Okay, you you need glasses,
you need a strong prescription. And I you know, obviously
I don't know you very well, but I gather from
our interaction that you're very intense person. And you know,

(51:03):
sometimes when people with intensity, they can actually strain their
eyes because they're you know, Emily, can you imagine? Can
you imagine how red my face must have been, a
smoke coming out of my ears, burning this man's hair
off of his head.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
I wow. Honestly an accomplishment.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Right, So again, like you, I didn't fy a little
bit with books.

Speaker 6 (51:33):
No.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I get it though, because like, what's the point of
doing anything if you're not going to do it to
the best of your ability? Why why show up if
you're not going to try? Like, yeah, which is why
I'm not really involved in them.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
It's it's why I can't.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I won't play board games with certain people because I
don't want them to see me that way. My in
laws we've never played a board game together. They like me,
They need to keep doing that.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
There's a I get it though, there's like a switch
the flips and it's not really about what it's about anymore,
you know it. Yeah, And I get that. I'm usually
cool with it, like but but yeah, I think it's
weird to see it because especially not to bring it

(52:18):
back to gender. But it's not something we commonly see
with with a with a female character, like she is
just dislikable. She's just burning bridges left and right. She's
she's very callous and cold and mean. She can she
can be very cruel and snippy and and but it's
like I don't know, I get it.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, And to change that would be like what would
that mean for her?

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Who is she?

Speaker 2 (52:48):
If she does it like this is and yeah, maybe
don't do rowing, maybe do pickleball, maybe do something that
won't that isn't like physically dangerous for you and other
people if you cross a line. But it's not like
I should just chill out like this is her. Now,

(53:10):
what do you think of the ending? So let's obviously
we're talking about the ending, uh, because there is kind
of a decision she makes I think at the end.
But what rights they go out to do this race,
and it's just like it's a nothing race, it's a
scrimmage practice.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Were I wrote a note about it. I wrote a
note about it. It's my second favorite part of the movie.
So it's right at the end, they're gonna do this
fun tradition and ever and like Alex is so fucking
checked out. Why would she be interested in that? And
then like someone mentions that there's a record, and her
head snaps up and she says she's like, oh, what's

(53:48):
the record, And everybody's face is just like, Okay, well, great,
Alex has ruined this now because she knows there's a
record that was really relatable.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Oh yeah, I've been there.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Uh oh, Christine's now interested in this in a way
that's going to make me not like it. So it
was like a record scratch right at the end, and
and and again it really the character had not has
not been growing through the snoop because her reaction to
it is so toxic. So she gets so there's a

(54:20):
record for this dumb row and during spring training or something,
and it's like do some amount of length and some
amount of time, and so it's her turn to go
out and there's like a terrible storm and there they
can throw in the rain, but not in the lightning.
The movie tells us that makes it makes sense, But
it's very much lightninging out and she's still going for it,

(54:44):
and and it's a really great moment because like it
really is. And like a bunch of the girl I
think there's four of them. Two of them turn are done,
keep going. It's her and the other like Novice, and
she's just screaming at her, keep going, keep go into
the lightning, and like eventually she stops too, and it's
just Alex out there and she comes back in. She

(55:07):
comes in and there are all all the other women
are already there, and she comes in and she goes
to the board and like goes to write her time
and then she just erases everything and her name and leaves.
I think I think she beat the record.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Oh I think she beat it.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
Okay, so my personal So it was raining really bad
and at one point she fell out and had to
get back in, So how would she have beaten.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
To be the record at that point? But but i'm I'm,
I'm but still like it.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
What if she beat it and that's all she wanted
and all she needed was to know that she was
the best so that she could just go Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
I love that interpretation. I think it's sunnier than I
would have. But but she.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Seemed like kind of self satisfied a little bit, which
is I guess what threw me a little well.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
And I think that's where there's like maybe the door
opening for some people to interpret that as like, oh,
she maybe had a realization that this is like she
she went overboard, Like literally, she goes overboard because she falls.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Do you think that.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I think she quits the team. I think she yeah, definitely,
Like I think something in that And maybe it is
the fact that like she kind of almost dies where
she kind of says, Okay, I'm done. I did what
I set out to do. I'm done. I think, don't
think you know, I think maybe now she's joining the

(56:28):
badminton team and terrifying me. Uh, it's not over for her,
Like this is not the end of her being intense
or going after something the way she goes after something.
But it feels like that is her. If I say
that as her giving up, I feel like that sounds
like like I don't want to insult Alex by saying that,

(56:50):
because I also would never want her mad at me,
but it does feel like it's her kind of saying like, fine,
you're right, I'm out.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Wow, how about this? What if it wasn't and this
would this would fly a bit in the face of
the character. What if she didn't beat the time but
she was the only one that finished the row and
they were all back in there cowering from the rain.
So maybe in a way she did win.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Oh yeah, I mean I think there is a sense
of triumph at the end.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
It's toxic in and of itself. That's why I say
this woman did not learn a thing, And I kind
of like that.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I do too. I'm with you, like I think she
like there is I am glad that she's leaving that
team because I don't think that team is good for her,
and I don't think she's good for that team. Like
this is not a relationship that makes sense in any way.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
Oh no, no, not at all. It's it's it's her
trying to stay in a team that's that like hostile,
and she's hostile to her and she's hostile to them,
Like it's it's exchange, but like that's not tenable for anybody,
Yeah at all, but it sure was fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Yeah, and it's funny.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
I the movie did kind of shake me, I think,
similar to you, But I had not really, I have not.
I'm still toiling with that ending. I have not come
to land on what I think it means.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
And I even went and looked at the Wikipedia to
reread the very end of the plot just to make sure,
like more of an indication. Yeah, and there isn't. But
I'm fine with a with a loose ending. I guess
if you're gonna it is a singular creation of a
writer director, so I it's very intentional. I guess it

(58:42):
doesn't matter. It's like it doesn't I guess the result
of the race and why she left doesn't matter. It's
just that she did.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
And she did about it well. And because you think
earlier when she is talking a bit about like her
high school experience, right, because she got this romance going
with an older TA and like they're they're out of
pool Hall, and she's kind of talking about like who
she was in high school, and like you kind of assumed,
just based on this character, you're kind of guessing, like, oh,

(59:11):
she was probably like number one in her class the
whole time, and she has this girl.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
It's this beautiful monologue where you find it out love scene.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Oh it's so great, where she's like, no, I actually
wasn't a good student.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
My mom made me take honors.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
And there was a boy in my class who made
a comment and I said, okay, I just have to
be better than you. And I worked my ass up
just to be better than him. That's and it took
me half a year to do and I was better
than him. And then like so the girlfriend's like okay,
and like so then were you valutarian?

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Nope, because another girl came in and she was better
than both of us and that was fine.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Like that she kind of cause again, like I know
I do this. It's like you set your own goalposts
for yourself.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
Yeah, and they.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Don't make sense to anybody else. You would never try
to explain.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Them to anybody else.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
But like you have to be better than this one person,
or you have to be the person who gets these
seven answers right, or who uh finishes the race even
though like you're dying, Like yeah, ever it is it's
that I guess I don't know, Christine, do you think
other people don't have this inside them.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
A lot of people don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Is that wild?

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
I think a lot of the yeah, a lot of
the problem is some of my best friends, and which
would be you. You are one of the best friends
I've ever had. I think when you you pick a
best friend, a lot of times you pick someone very
much like yourself. Yeah, And I think sometimes that can

(01:00:38):
that can insulate you against the fact that you might
actually be an alien with an anxiety problem. Yea, because
you don't realize that other people are like that. Yeah, yeah,
very bad.

Speaker 6 (01:00:50):
I think you're so right, yep, But I also do
think you said you that little that that you just
said might have really cracked this case wide open about
the ending, because you're You're right, it wasn't necessarily about
being valedictorian for her, it was about beating him.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
She was less. She wasn't really pressed when someone beat
them as long as it wasn't him who beat her.
So in the end, maybe it was just the fact
that she beat brill, she beat.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
She's the best freshman, she's the best novice.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah yeah, yeah, So maybe that
really is all it was. And honestly, I think it
would be good for her to come up with more
little goalposts like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
So I'm totally with you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
She could just.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
Get get in and out without yeah self harm stuff.
The self harm stuff was really rough.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, I think she.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Just needs to if for it not to be I
wouldn't even say not to beat sport because like there's
there's aspects of sports you could do that are that
intense without it being like dangerous. But you see that
a lot with runners. I think you see it with
every sport, but like it's something like very common. I
think with a lot of like you'll see to like
races where there are people who just you can tell

(01:01:57):
have like six days a week they are at their
fullest running and don't stop and do this and everything else.
And often like you'll meet like former addicts who have
sort of switched to that, Like there's that same sort
of like it's not like quite the addictive personality, Like
it's this kind of obsessive personality, I guess, And yeah,
I think it's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
The Other thing is it's really wild.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
And I'm so glad you had similar feelings to this
to me, because I think there's a lot of people
that would watch this movie and kind of walk away
with like geez, she's crazy or like man like that
that's an intense personality disorder or whoever you want to
read it. And I love that you and me both
watch us were like I kind of feel seen.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Yeah, yeah, I have dueling notes. I feel targeted by
this movie and I could fix her, so so I
don't know. I feel like in Naya, she really pushes
forward when she learns to love herself again that child
that she was, re embrace her. And I feel like
maybe we could learn something from from from Alex in

(01:03:06):
the Novice that we are her and we love her
and yeah, just love ourselves, embrace it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
It's who we are.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Yeah, and we get shit done because of it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
That that's no joke. So like it's again you feel
represented of an represented in a movie about this because
very rarely do they allow women to have faults at all.
This is just just a fucking cavalcade of faults.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
So we really get it all in this one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Uh huh. And she is still like again you are
so riveted by her. Yeah, and you in our case anyway,
like you get her and you you understand it and
you you've been there and you will be there again.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Yeah. And Isabelle Furman's tremendous.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Oh she's so good in this. I mean she's good.
I've never seen her not be great. She got I
mean she she have a big career. Yet, like I
feel like she did like an Orphan too, did a
lot of great things for her because I think people
understood that, like not just that like she could play
that character again, but that she like was a driving
force and getting that movie made. I always got the

(01:04:19):
feeling that she auditioned to be Catinus, like that she
could could have.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
Yeah, she's in what had happened was is she's in
those her Horizon movies. Yeah, so I feel like that
chomped up a lot of her time posts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
Probably Now I am whatever Isabelle wants to do with
her career. I personally would rather her just be in
genre movies so I could continue to watch her in
genre movies. But like, it's fine. There's also a movie
that she was in that was directed by Julia Stiles
that I want to watch, How Horrible Wish You Were Here?

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Not very good. The Last Thing Mary Saw, which was
on a shutter and it's very disappointing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
I purposefully avoided it because the trailer made me feel
it boring.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
No, it is not good at all, and it's very
disappointing because it's not her fault by any means.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
But no, that's a shame. Yeah, I'm glad you liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
I loved it. Yeah, I and I and I get why.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
And I remember when you had first talked about it,
you said, like you have to see this, and like
you were so right, and I am again like I
think I watched it at the right time in.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Life, also where I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Was like able to find myself this way.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Yep, movies find you when they're meant to, because it's true,
because honestly, peek behind the curtain. I got kind of
sick from my last COVID booster, so I had to
put off recording. So you didn't even need to watch
this when you did.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I I almost if if I had a little more time,
I would have watched it again.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
There was a minute where I was really not feeling
well and I was like, you know what I could
get through Naiad, And I know I m member enough
about that. I'm so glad I didn't do that, because
it just it is it is rewatchable because once you
kind of know the trajectory is what it is, it
watches much different because you're expecting maybe a bit more
of a change in the character.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Yeah, and I love that you don't get it. It
is great of like revolutionary.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
To is that it's subversive as shit, I think, But yeah,
I like it a lot. I hope this uh this
writer director makes more movies.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Yeah, Lauren uh had Away hate away as the writer director.
And you're right, she's got nothing on her coming soon.
That is heartbreaking because this is so good and I
would be so fascinated to see what else she does.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
How did people well, then people with a lot of money,
like billionaires, have no taste. I was just going to say,
how do people with a ton of money not just
like watch a movie and then call up the person
and say, hey, can I give you some money to
make a movie?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Million dollars laying around? That's a movie, right, Yeah, that's
like actually five novices, So yeah, I can take that
and make a movie.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
I don't that's all I would how money works?

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
Yeah all I would do this, lady. I'm sure I
could if I was a millionaire. I could get in
touch with her and be like, look, yeah, what movie
do you want to make next?

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Right? And could it involve figure skating?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Because then I have another investor for you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
And what Isabelle Ferman also want to be in that?
Because she talk about training and stuff. She changed hard
for this too. Ye, really impressive stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
You should watch both of these movies.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
You really should, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
And also like it's summer, it's water, it's good time
to watch these movies.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
Why not, right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah? And this looks good like that. It has a
very particular kind of like color pellet to it. Yeah,
that really works. Well. It is not like a pretty movie.
It's kind of the opposite of Naiad, which is like
blue water and dolphins and this, and like you're it's
like it's four in the morning and it's raining and
it's overcast and it's miserable and everybody's sweating and like, yeah,

(01:08:00):
like it's a sports movie, but a very different kind. Yeah. Yeah,
all right, Well go find these movies people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
They're great.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
You should, yep, and give a little bit of leeway
to the intense women in your life, if you will,
Oh please, Yeah, we just understand that we are the
way we are and the world moves better.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
So yeah, all right, I think the next time we're
together we should probably do a catch up because it's
been a while.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I've got some wild Amazon Prime watches to go over
that I look forward to doing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
I've you know what, let's tease, I've watched some new stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Oh oh, look at this.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
I know I'm trying to get into its Okay, there's
been some good stuff this year.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
This is true. We don't want to go too far
into it. But guys, there was another final destination.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
Oh my god, I've been waiting so long to talk
to you about this. Should we just know? It's okay?
I was gonna say, should we just do a final destination?

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
I mean, oh god, then.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
I have a lot to say about the new movie.
I'm just gonna say that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Well, well we'll talk about what we have to talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
all right, Well, folks, you know where to find us
kind of well, find Christy at Christine Makepeace dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
That's me, okay, and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
I'm Blue Sky at X teen make Piece.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
I believe that is also me. There Still I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Think I'm there. I am.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
I still don't really understand how blue Sky works, but
I'm there at Deadly Dolls, so you can find me there. Uh.
And everybody, just, you know, be nice to your team
or not not. You don't have to be nice, I
don't know. Just respect your team.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
I guess you need you need.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Them to respect you because otherwise you're not gonna win.

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Yeah, that's the lesson you take from us.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
Goodbye, everybody, Goodbye.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
Row row row you both genily downstreams fairly, merrily, merrily merrily.
Left is to dream row row row your boat gensly
down the streams merrily, merrily merrily.

Speaker 7 (01:10:01):
To roll, rolling fast and slow. You know we love
to roll. Now he's jumping a goal.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
Jump jump jumping now, jumping down the streets, mearly merrily, meverly, merrily.

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
Jumping with your beaks.

Speaker 5 (01:10:22):
Jump jump jumping now jumping down the street meterly, verly, merrily,
merrily jumping with your beaks.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
So we love to jump jumping.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Give me.

Speaker 7 (01:10:36):
You know we love to jump. Now. We're stappy everywhere

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
Step step stamp stamp da