Bonus Episode - John Carpenter’s ‘Halloween’ (1978) Deep Dive! - The Film Dept.

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This week we discussed John Carpenter's seminal proto-slash or Halloween.
We figured we just had so much more to say about it, so much more conversation left.
We decided we'd treat you guys to a bit of a bonus episode, a bit of a deep dive, if
you will.
I'm Davey Parks. I'm a UNLV fourth year film major. I'm so excited. I'd like to throw

(01:15):
it to Simona, who was out during our original episode, but we'd love to hear your thoughts
on Halloween. What's up Simona?
I know I was so sad to miss that episode, but I'm glad that we're doing this bonus episode
to try to get more of a deep dive. I think I can offer a bit of a different perspective

(01:36):
on Halloween, not to say that it's not a super important and seminal work in horror cinema,
but when I first saw it, I wasn't the biggest fan of it. I think I approached it from the
perspective that like, "Oh, this is nothing new. It's boring. It's a bit too predictable,

(01:59):
maybe." I dismissed it just as a regular horror movie that didn't really have an effect
on me, but revisiting it this time, I approached it from a different perspective more and
like how important it is in influencing horror cinema and taking a look at it from that

(02:23):
perspective. I understand more about why it has garnered such a name. I think it personally,
from my perspective, I see that it all comes down to how accessible it is. It's not too
extreme. The narrative isn't too crazy. I think it's suitable for so many different audiences,

(02:47):
and I think that's also what contributed to how important it has become. I think also with the
films, kind of simplicity. I mean, it's not a super simplistic movie, but it isn't as crazy as
some other things that I may be more interested in. I recognize that the simplicity of Halloween is

(03:14):
kind of what gives it its charm. I think that it doesn't rely on such a bizarre narrative,
and John Carpenter does a great job with his direction in making it such a valuable work of horror
cinema. That's my overall perspective of the movie.

(03:36):
It's really cool. You brought up influence too. I also just wanted to say, Halloween is one of
the most influential movies ever made in terms of horror. You said the first time you saw it,
I think a lot of people, especially people more R-Age, the first time they saw Halloween might
have had a similar experience. I'm like, well, I know what's going to happen. It's very predictable.
She's going to fall down at some point when she's running away from Michael. I think it's obviously

(03:58):
in you know this, but it's important to understand that this movie kind of started all those tropes,
and it started all those cliches, and it launched this wave of slasher in the 80s. You know, excuse me,
like Friday the 13th, a night-round Elm Street, like all these types of movies, all these tropes that
you see, a lot of them do come from Halloween. So definitely it is very influential, and I can understand
why you would have that experience the first time watching it. I think a lot of people did.

(04:20):
Yeah, I was honestly like, realizing now I was just really ignorant because I enjoyed watching it
this time around, and I understood its influence a lot more also, especially looking at other horror
films that I love, like Nightmare on Elm Street, and you know, I can definitely see its influence

(04:40):
and so many works that I love, and I appreciate it for that. And speaking to I guess like you're talking
about like the accessibility of the movie, pretty famously this movie did pretty well at the box
office and during its theatrical release, but really a lot of people, their first time paying attention
to it was when it was broadcasted on NBC of all stations, really like basic cable access, and there

(05:06):
was a bit of editing and involved and getting it to release, you know, having FCC approve,
having all the way night, but I think that's really interesting that this movie that's you know,
a slasher movie that's widely regarded as like, you know, the birth of a genre that's
famously very violent, very exploitative, very, you know, grind house-esque, really got its start for

(05:28):
a lot of people on nationally syndicated broadcast television, and I think about how many kids
every year I see dressed as Michael Myers, and I think that's really interesting that, you know,
a lot of, for a lot of parents, the first horror movie that you showed your kid to really get them
into the horror genre beyond, you know, maybe goosebumps or things like that that are geared towards

(05:52):
children, for a lot of people, it's Halloween, it's the original, you know, OG Michael Myers,
is sort of a safe bet to, you know, kind of get your kid interested in the idea of more mature horror,
and I know that's kind of how it started for me was, you know, thinking about it,
having someone show me it for the first time, so I'm glad you brought that up.

(06:15):
I think it's cool, you know, Davey, you brought up the television version of Halloween,
that is the version of the movie that people can see if you have the Blu-ray, like the Shout Factory Blu-ray
it's on there, just a little bit of history there, when Halloween first came out, you know, back in the
late 70s movies, they weren't released like they are today, where today you have a movie, and it
opens in like 500 theaters across America, all at once, back in the late 70s of what they would do

(06:40):
is they would tour a movie, they would have it open in like St. Louis, and then they would move it
to a different city, and then Kansas City or whatever, and so that's how Halloween started, and it was a
very slow start, it wasn't an immediate success, Halloween was one of like the big movies in terms of like,
you know, it's a low budget independent movie, it was made for $300,000, and I can't remember off
the top of my head how much it grows, but it was considered one of the most profitable independent

(07:02):
movies ever made because of Word of mouth. A lot of people were going to the theater, they were seeing
it and telling their friends and their family like, "Hey, this movie is really scary," and then another big
influence in that was Roger Ebert's review. Roger Ebert was obviously a very famous critic,
and he said that Halloween was comparable to Psycho in terms of being very scary as a slasher movie,
and so that really helped garnered a lot of attention, and then they decided to make Halloween 2,

(07:26):
three years later, in 1981, and during that time I believe the NBC premiere was just before Halloween 2
came out, because they added a few scenes in the movie, because the movie was only 90 minutes, and
they needed it to be two hours to fill the time slot. So Carpenter went back and filmed a couple of
additional scenes that aren't really necessary to the film, but like you have an extra scene with

(07:46):
Lumius at the Attsmiths Grove, you have a scene with Laurie and her friends, and all of that was actually
filmed concurrently while they were filming Halloween 2. So yeah, it's definitely the television version
of Halloween is another big reason why it became such a success too. I just, I don't know why that might be
thinking this, but you know talking about the release of the movie, one thing I found out was that

(08:08):
apparently this movie was really big in Japan, when it finally reached Japan, was that Japanese
arc reacted really strongly to it, and we were in my Japanese cinema class, and during a completely
different conversation, Professor Kenan-Dya's asked, you know, what genre of film, if you know aliens

(08:30):
came to Earth, and you had to show them what American cinema is, like what do you think is the most
prototypical American genre, like what can be made in a different country, and I really felt
inclined to argue that the Slasher genre is like the most American genre, because you know, like
the first instinct might be to say, you know, superheroes, but you know other countries have superheroes,

(08:51):
it's not a very limited American idea, but there's something about the concept of Halloween, and we
think about the other, you know, proto-slasher's like Black Christmas, which is a Canadian film, but still,
it's something that has to do a lot with a lot of really distinctly American anxieties,
this idea that the past that we've sort of covered up is going to come back to haunt us, the ideas of

(09:17):
like suburbia, even just like the spatial blocking thing of like low density neighborhoods that are
predominantly, you know, not really well trafficked by pedestrians, is something that's very American,
and I think about Michael Myers as one of the great like inventions of American cinema, because he just
so distinctly strikes me as something very American, and I think a lot of that has to do with,

(09:42):
I feel like John Carpenter is a very sort of patriotic filmmaker, I think he, whether he intends to
or not has a lot of love and appreciation for American culture and society, that he really
includes in this film, and part of that is he really loves a working class hero, and that includes
Laurie, who like is very much, you know, she's a babysitter, it's like the first job a lot of women have

(10:05):
when they're entering the workforce is babysitting, and I think that's really interesting that, you know,
when you think of all his movies, they're typically a very blue collar worker, and that includes Halloween,
and it's not limited to gender, and that Laurie is a blue collar woman who becomes the lead of the film,
which I think is really cool. Yeah, I think a lot of the horror elements do come from these things,

(10:30):
in Halloween, that's what I also notice that it does really involve the space and the atmosphere,
and kind of those American fears, and it doesn't, I feel like Halloween doesn't rely just on
graphic violence, that's why also it's like more accessible, it, you know, it wasn't extreme in that way.

(10:52):
Yeah, I think movies really like a masterclass in blocking, in like spatial logic and film,
because you, I feel like there's a pre-Holoween and post-Holoween in terms of how we shoot spaces,
in movies, and how we as an audience are aware of like the layouts of houses, or like the proximity

(11:13):
of houses to each other, where I feel like in a lot of older movies, we'll see a lot of interiors of
houses, and then we don't really see the exterior, or if we do, it's very much like the car pulls into
the exterior, and then the car pulls out, and we don't see anything outside of this like one very
static shot, but so much of Halloween and the plot relies on our understanding of where the characters,

(11:36):
and where these locations are, and proximity to each other, and I think that's a cool, and how,
you know, you watch the movie, and you get a really firm understanding for the layout of the Myers
House, of the houses that are being babysitted, just the layout of this neighborhood in general,
I think that's really cool. Definitely, yeah, it's, you know, I think it's a really great, it was a great

(11:59):
creative choice, it probably came out of necessity, but the idea of having the Wallace House and the
Doyle House being across the street from each other, it really does give you sort of that spatial
awareness of where everything is, and you know, I think another important thing too, you mentioned
this earlier, the idea of the town, and Suburbie and America, you know, hadn't fielded as a town,
it's obviously a fictional town, but it is a character ended up itself, especially in this movie,

(12:22):
I feel like that's something that gets kind of lost throughout the series, where it's more about
the kills than Michael and less about the town itself, but the town is almost its own character,
and you feel like you know this town, because you spend so much of the, you know, first and second
act exploring this town, you're seeing the train station, you're seeing the hardware store, you're
seeing the schools, I mean, you know, like you really do get to like learn this town, and you get to

(12:43):
learn these people, you know, I think one of the best scenes of that too is the early The Walk-in Talk,
when Laurie and Ian Linda are walking and they're talking, you know, on the sidewalk, and you're
just getting used to the houses and stuff, and hadn't fielded, you know, like I said, fictional town,
it was, the name comes from hadn't filled New Jersey, because that's where Debra Hill grew up,
but they did film in Pasadena, California, which is funny, you can kind of tell there are some shots,

(13:07):
where you can see there's palm trees in the background, there's no palm trees in the American Midwest,
you can see mountains in the background, that's obviously not supposed to be there either,
it's because they shot it in California, but there's, you know, and especially like, if you look at
the picture behind you too, if you've been to Pasadena, like if you've driven down those streets where
they filmed, it does look so weirdly like not California, it looks like the American Midwest, so they,

(13:30):
I think it was a great choice for them to film there, even though yes, you can't see palm trees and stuff,
but it does give the town itself its own identity. Well, there's even really great little creative
choices, like the fact that they shot this movie in the middle of summer, and all of these are green,
and all the bushes are green, but just little simple things, like having a fan and tossing dead
leaves in front of the camera, so that you get the appearance of falling leaves to give the illusion

(13:56):
of fall is such a clever little trick, but it works so well, because I think when a lot of people think
about this movie, me included, I think of very fall aesthetics, I think of orange and, you know,
very like, browns, but it's, no, it's a very green movie, but they do such a job of tricking you into
thinking, it's set during Halloween. You're right, I didn't even like notice any of that, like now I'm

(14:17):
just realizing how kind of seamless that was, and those choices were, even if they were, like Jeff
said, in a necessity in some ways with the houses also, and yeah. Yeah, and you know, a lot of,
I've heard that too from like the hardcore Halloween fans, I'm like, well, you know, the first Halloween
doesn't really have that much of a fall aesthetic, and you're right, technically it doesn't, because like

(14:40):
you said, it's shot during the summer, the trees are green, but it's more in, I think, also to the
lighting, especially it's like turning the nighttime scenes, you have this blue lighting, again,
you have to give a shout out to Dean Cundee, the cinematographer of this movie, he really shot the
hell out of this movie, it's so well shot, it's so beautiful, and the lighting is so good too,
with this blue lighting that you get, and these like, you know, epic wide shots of the houses,

(15:01):
you feel like it's a cold, autumn night, you feel that, I think, and that's important too.
Yeah, for sure, I really think this movie captures the essence of Halloween in a way that, like,
if I had to explain to someone who had no idea what Halloween was, or what, you know, the holiday
in tales, I would just show them this movie and be like, like, see, like, it's such a perfect encapsulation,

(15:26):
and it really, it exists in my mind in that, like, kind of atmosphere of movies that, like,
Stranger Things takes, like, inspiration from of that very, like, adolescent, wonder, suburbia,
kind of thing, because so much of this movie, I really enjoy this shot from the perspective of not
just teenagers, but children, and kids, which I think also, kind of, throws in that appeal of,

(15:51):
why it's the first horror movie a lot of people show their kids, because it's very rooted in
this, like, child-like, prospect, not just in the opening scene where, you know, we find out,
Michael is just a child when he commits these murders, but, like, all the scenes at the elementary
school, I think are, like, really cool, and, like, really nostalgic, everything with, like,

(16:12):
Lonnie at the, at the Myers house. There's a lot of, like, child-like, sort of, wonder involved in
this movie, even, by the way, that is my favorite scene in this entire movie when Lonnie goes to
the Myers house, and Luma pulls that prank on, and they, Lonnie, get your ass away from there. That's
awesome for me, but, definitely, and, you know, another thing too with that also is, they call,

(16:34):
they specifically say, Michael Myers is the Boogie Man, which is a very child-ish term, right?
Like, that's something that, like, usually, like, a young child would say, like, oh, the Boogie Man's in
my closet, and you kind of hear it from an adult, and it kind of sounds silly, like, why are you saying
this? But, by the time you get to that final scene of the movie, when Lori has that realization,
like, she has an arc in this movie, right? She doesn't believe in the Boogie Man. Tommy asks her,

(16:55):
like, what's the Boogie Man? She's like, oh, it's not real. It's make believe. And by the time she gets
to the end, she's like, oh, it was the Boogie Man, and Luma says, like, of course, it was. It doesn't,
at least for me in that moment, it doesn't feel cringey, or it doesn't feel like, oh, that's, like,
kind of a weird shout-out to me, because it makes sense by the time you get to that point in the story,
that, yes, Michael is the Boogie Man. He is pure evil. He represents the fear that we all have,

(17:18):
and I think it also goes to show, too, that it's more than just a child's fear. It's something that adults
are afraid of as well, too. Yeah, also, can I just say that I think Michael Myers is like, the
absolute, like, the most absolutely terrifying, like, classic horror cinema villain ever. I just think that
for his appearance and kind of just his existence and what he represents is just absolutely terrifying

(17:46):
to me. Another aspect that really contributes to kind of not necessarily the most explicit, like,
horror representation that this movie displays, but more of the atmospheric and kind of
spatial horror that it creates. Well, I feel like even a good example of how simple it is to make

(18:10):
a really threatening character is Michael breaks a taboo that you don't often see in the cinema,
and that's animal violence. He controls a dog fully on screen, and then off screen is implied to be
eating dogs. He ate a dog. Yeah. Yeah. Like that, like that shocking for audiences, and now like,
that's something that when I show people today, people go, oh, like, I can't believe he killed a dog,

(18:34):
like, that's something you don't really see in horror films, but it's something that they did way
back in the 70s, which I can imagine how shocking that would be, which again is so, like, it embodies the
idea that like, Michael is here to cause disruption and bring evil to the American suburb, because he's
killing the very American pet. He's murdering a dog, and it's so symbolic of he's running through,

(18:59):
and he's destroying all these symbols of domesticy, and you can even look into that from a film theory
perspective of the items that he's using to kill people are very domestic objects. It's the
telephone, the knife, even the car that he kills, one of the teens, it's very Americana. It's very

(19:20):
domestic life, and I found that really interesting too. Absolutely. I also want to propose one more
thing to another reason why I think Michael is so scary that not a lot of people usually talk about,
you know, when people kind of think of because obviously Michael is such a famous image, like a lot of
people, like even if you don't know Halloween, you know what he looks like, because he's just so
embedded into the off-culturesite guys. But a lot of people kind of mistakenly think that, oh, he's

(19:43):
this big tall man and this big brooding uniform with the mess, but he's actually very, you know, he's
not that tall in this movie. He's like 5'8" I think Nick Castle. So he's, you know, Tom Cruise is
hiding in this movie, and so he's just like a regular guy. He's not super built. He's not massive.
He's not very intimidating from a physique standpoint. He's more intimidating, I think, from the fact that,

(20:04):
you know, for the first two acts of the movie is, you know, sprinkled throughout the film, but you're
usually seeing him from a distance, right? You don't actually get to see him up close for a lot of
the movie. You see him, you know, when he's standing outside the classroom, he's out of far away
distance. You can't really get a good look at his mask. Or when he's standing behind the bush and he's
stalking them, you can't really get a good look at him there either. In fact, the first time you actually

(20:25):
really get to see a good look of the mask is when he kills Linda and he raises the phone to his head.
And so I think that's another reason, too, that makes him so scary is the fact that he's just a regular
looking guy in a regular, you know, mechanic outfit with this mask. And you don't really get to see
him up close. And the whole movie, he's just getting slowly closer and closer and closer to the
camera until you get that, you know, epic reveal later on. Yeah, for me, that also really contributes to

(20:50):
to how terrifying he is because you really don't get a good look at him and you don't really
exactly know, I guess, what kind of character you're dealing with almost when he's kind of just
there in the background and kind of wandering from place to place and just appearing, disappearing and

(21:13):
yeah, I like when you kind of still have that mystery, I think it makes a movie a lot more a character,
more character a lot more effective. Yeah, sort of like the mystique of him. I think that is
100% what makes him so scary and the first one and that is something that gets lost in this franchise
is, you know, in the next film, spoiler alert guys, but you find out that Laurie and Michael are

(21:35):
brother and sister and he's coming after his long lost sister and it takes away from that because
in the first movie, he's just a crazy guy who escapes a mental institute, goes back to his hometown and
the only reason he goes after Laurie in this movie is just because she was in the wrong place at the
wrong time. Her father's a real estate agent, he's selling the Myers house, so she has to go draw
off the key and Myers happens to be there and he sees her and from that moment on, he sets his

(21:58):
sights on her and stalks her throughout the day and I've always thought that's just so much
scarier than any motive, any cult, you know what I mean, like it is a lot scarier, the idea that
just this random guy with absolutely no motive at all is going to be like that hard driven on hunting
you down. Yeah, I was wondering, sorry. I was going to say even in how Michael presents himself, it was

(22:21):
very transgressive for the time because you think about the killers that came prior to Michael
and they're these very glassy eyed lunatics, you know, we're talking about Black Christmas,
this very vocal killer who's very off the hook and kind of ranged leather face is this big brooding
guy who's always like making like animal noises and grunting even, you know, Norman Bates is just very,

(22:45):
he's shy but when we find out that he's got this like wide eyed expression of just insanity on his
face, Michael I feel like is one of the first killers put to screen who's just blank and I think
that's a really interesting choice and a really important one that John Carpenter and Deborah Hill made
is that this isn't just a glassy eyed lunatic, it's just a pure embodiment of evil. Right, I mean,

(23:11):
and even the fact that you can hear his breathing under the mask, you know that there's a human being
under that mask, you know that there's somebody that's an actual person, I think that also kind of
leads into a conversation that a lot of people have in this movie which is, you know, is Michael Myers
specifically in this first movie, like again, if you get into the sequels, it's a different conversation
but in this first movie, you know, whether or not he's supernatural and I think everybody kind of has

(23:34):
their own perspective on that. I tend to go with what Carpenter said which is that he is a human being
in this movie with a slight supernatural edge. There's something about him that's just off in the way
that he's able to move around so quickly in the way that he can kind of, you know, he's at the door
and now he's inside the window and now he's over here and then by the end of the movie, you know,
he gets shot six times and a lot of people will say, well, like bad proof that he's supernatural,

(23:56):
the fact that he got shot and stabbed in the eye and stabbed in the neck and he still survived and,
you know, a lot of people have survived worse than that so it's not really out of the realm of
possibility that a human being could survive what Michael does in the movie. Just like what do you
guys think? Do you guys think Michael is supernatural or no? I like the idea that he's not,

(24:19):
because that's just so much scarier, but I think what plays really well is that ambiguity,
especially for the character's perspective. I think it's scarier. It doesn't really matter whether
or not he's supernatural. It's scarier whether the character is in the film think he is. And I think by
the end when we see Laurie who up until that point has been this really kind of like jovial girl who

(24:44):
is like really relaxed and maybe maybe studious, but she's, you know, she's nice and she has
life behind her eyes. And the last time we see her, she's this cowering scared woman who has just
realized that the boogie man is real like that. I think is one of the scariest images of the movie is
just what is left of this character that we've been watching this whole time after she's gone through

(25:08):
this whole ordeal. And and loomis's pursuit of my Michael adds so much to that tension. It really is like,
I think Halloween and Jaws go so well side by side because Michael is just a shark. And the whole thing of
you really can't have a good horror movie without having someone say something bad's gonna happen.

(25:29):
You guys aren't listening to me and then having people not listen to them. So yeah.
Yeah, I also I think when it comes to whether Michael is supernatural being or not. I like I would like
the I prefer the idea that he is not because it's kind of just crazy to watch someone go through all

(25:52):
that and and still be fine and still get back up and just keep doing his crazy things. But I
I agree with Davie on that. I think it's it's scarier to to wonder whether the the characters in the movie
think Michael is supernatural or not. I like that idea. Yeah, one analogy that Carpenter brought up

(26:18):
that I really like is that Michael is sort of like the wind and that you know like when you have like
a big storm and the wind blows down somebody's house. It's not because the wind had a vendetta against
that person's house. The wind simply destroys because that's what it does and that's sort of what
Michael is as well. He doesn't really have a vendetta against anybody. He doesn't have a personal
reason. There's a lot of people who do say like you know you can kind of get into the the psychosexual

(26:40):
subtext of this movie that like no, he's actually fascinated with teenage girls that look like his
sister. But again, you know, he also does kill a mechanic. He kills a dog. I don't necessarily think
that his goal is to kill teenage girls that look like his sister. I don't think his goal is to kill
these horny babysitters because they remind him of how his sister you know, babies at him and she
decided to go have one minute sex with her boyfriend that only lasted one minute by the way.

(27:03):
And you know, so I personally don't really buy into that. What do you guys think? Do you think that's
something that's there? I mean watching it, I was like always wondering kind of like what's his
motive why he's doing that. But I really don't... Yeah, I just think he is like just the pure
embodiment of evil and that he really does not present any motive in the movie. I mean the point

(27:29):
that you bring up Jeff, the psychosexual aspects of it, those are interesting to consider, but not sure.
I think it's always interesting. Like I think I think it's something that you can't remove when you
have a movie about a male killer who uses a knife and you're focusing on women, even even outside of

(27:51):
the film theory stuff of like oh, knife as fallist, there's always the threat of sexual violence.
Like even before it's never mentioned or it's never implied that Michael has an affliction
for sexual violence, when you have a scene of three high school girls walking in an neighborhood

(28:11):
and a guy passes by them slowly and is like looking at them, that threat is right there. And whether
you remove it from that context or not, it's always kind of this like ever-present thing that you know,
not only is he a killer, could he be a killer and also someone willing to inflict sexual violence

(28:32):
on the victims that he's you know doing these acts against. And I do think it's really interesting that
you know two of the one of the characters who gets murdered is in the nude and another character
who gets murdered is almost in the nude and Michael pays no attention to that. There's no there's
no scene of like Michael like trying to like do anything that's even remotely sexual and I think

(28:55):
that's really interesting. It almost like implies to me a level of like adolescence to Michael
that even though he's still evil and he's very you know like the wind like a shark, there's almost
still like a child like aspect to him that like sexuality isn't even there or present for him.
Right because he spends his entire life in a mental institution. I mean he has no, he almost has

(29:19):
like probably no idea what sex even is. I would doubt that they taught sex ed at Smith's Grove honestly.
So I'm sure he doesn't know. They taught drivers ed which is he strivers ed yes.
I'm not really funny because I don't want to even say at what age I realize you don't drive
with both feet. And so for Michael to figure that out I thought that's really impressive with him.

(29:41):
Wait a minute you don't drive with both feet. I'm just finding this out for the first time now.
Shit I can't believe I got my license. But yeah no you know also one other thing too. I'm just
kind of going back real quick to what we're talking about. The closest thing you do get to that is
there is a specific shot where Michael is very clearly watching Linda and Bob have sex. And you know
you would kind of think like well why doesn't he just go attack them right there like right like he

(30:04):
has his two victims there. I mean there you could kind of slice into that pie anyway you want.
I sort of see it as well one you wouldn't get the two awesome scenes that follow which is the
really iconic scene when he stocks Bob and he pins them to the to the counter with the knife.
And then the scene where he throws on the ghost costume and chokes out Linda which also goes to show

(30:25):
that Michael like you said going back to the adolescent's idea he has a sense of humor. He loves the
atrix. He likes to play with his food a little bit and that's something I've always kind of
appreciated about his character. To the point of carrying a grave stone all which I can't imagine is
not heavy all the way to the house of the stairs and then playing on the bed which is yeah he really

(30:46):
likes to make art out of his victims which I always find the characteristic of him. Yeah he's a
Halloween decorator and I appreciate that I get it. You know I also we didn't really talk about
this last time like at all and I feel like you can't talk about Halloween without talking about the
score. I mean the music in this movie is arguably more iconic than the movie itself. I mean you

(31:09):
you have people you will hear the Halloween theme you know I have a six year old nephew he's never
seen any Halloween but he knows the Halloween theme he understands when he hears that those piano
knows oh this is or this is Halloween it's so iconic and just a little bit of backstory with the
score you know Carpenter did the score himself. There's sort of this urban legend that originally he

(31:30):
showed a rough cut of the movie to a test audience and they didn't have music and it wasn't scary and
then he went back in recorded the music put it in and now everybody's like oh my god it's so scary.
There's some debate on whether or not that's true but either way certainly if you imagine this
movie without the score it definitely would lose I would argue at least 50% of the scaryness so much of

(31:51):
it comes from that music and you know you go to the opening Halloween theme it's very simple but it's
also it's very repetitive right it's very it's the same notes over and over and over again again kind
of how Michael is always going after people he's always you know he keeps coming back he keeps you
know you can kill him but then he'll come back alive and he'll keep coming after you kind of like that
score. Yeah it's kind of grading and it kind of like honestly it gets on my nerves a little bit like

(32:16):
I think it's so iconic but watching the movie it's like when is this gonna end like same with you
know everything that Michael is doing and I know the backstory of like the whole score and how
Carpenter showed it without the music and that it wasn't scary I tried watching like 10 minutes without

(32:40):
like on me and well yeah kind of on you just to kind of get the feel of that and yeah I mean that's
kind of true like the music the score is really effective. You have very visually out there
I was just gonna say even outside of the main theme the two secondary themes the Lori's theme the

(33:00):
very like the piano is so I there's like three themes that just get kind of remixed and like
rearranged throughout the film and it's the main theme Lori's theme and then like the shape theme
they're like doll kind of thing going on and I really especially love Lori's theme because I think

(33:21):
that's another way that the Carpenter that Carpenter treks us into thinking that it's fall because it
is such a fall kind of sounding thing and I'm also really found not even sure if you would call
the score or like sound effects but that balloon deflating jump scare they have throughout the film
is so interesting to me like how it is in the score yeah yeah that that like those sound effects are

(33:46):
also part of the score as well that's not something that was thrown in the mix so if you do listen
to the original like Halloween soundtrack I have it on CD that stuff is all in there like there's
also another one too that I love the scene when Michael escapes for the first time and you see
him he's in his white hospital gown he jumps on top of the car when he goes to attack the nurse
there's like a really funny like very kind of 80s and been going on and it's just so fun I love

(34:09):
the different sound effects that are in the score yeah there is one thing that I kind of like
notice throughout the movie I don't know if it's because of like Carpenter's desire to kind of
add horror or add fear to the movie using the score but like I each time I've watched this I've noticed
that there are parts of the movie they're kind of overpowered by the score to the point where it's

(34:35):
kind of difficult to hear what the characters are saying I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed that
but I think that happens when like they're the scene where they're just like walking and talking
and it's that scene really good improvised line from PJ Souls where she's like oh you know I forget
my textbook and I forget my history book and I know who needs book it who needs books anyways you

(34:57):
know books are yeah and and like you hear you hear her like audio mixing kind of fade and that like
really like the sound right mix in yeah well I think also that's because specifically that's also
when you first see Michael driving next to them so I sort of interpreted as like oh what she's
saying is just it doesn't matter obviously like what's important is Michael and that's why it turns

(35:18):
scary and it kind of drowns out her dialogue but I certainly do get what you're saying it's a very
score heavy mix like the score is very front of the mix compared to the dialogue so yeah I would agree
yeah so I mean that's the score of Halloween there's there's so much else to talk about I mean
another big thing too just like you said like the opening too this is the first time you hear the

(35:40):
score I love that sort of iconic pumpkin credits where you have this pumpkin you have these orange
credits again getting you into that fall mood kind of going back to how do you get people into
that aesthetic will you start with a pumpkin they're just a very simple carving you have this really
scary score and the camera is just very slowly pushing it on the eye until it just fades into blackness
and then you hear the kids you know saying like black cats and goblins and broomsticks and go so it

(36:02):
just really gets you just from like the opening before you even get into Michael killing Judith
already you're just so dropped into that Halloween mood and then you get to the opening scene which
is its own you know beast in it of itself now I've always heard that there is a bit of like a subliminal
image in the pumpkin's eyes there any truth to that because I I look for it every time and I don't see it

(36:24):
there is yeah so if you go into the eye the idea is that it is a silhouette from the side of
Michael holding a knife the nose is the knife it has sort of the handle at the bottom it's kind of
hard to see because you know they carved it very quickly if you do watch Halloween 2018 the
newest one David Gordon Green of this new trilogy it has the same pumpkin with the same design and

(36:46):
it's a little bit more obvious than that one because they carved it just a little bit more precisely
but yeah there there is supposed to be the and I think also that comes from originally they wanted
it to be Michael's mask and then the camera was going to push in slowly on the mask but that just
didn't work out for whatever reason so they decided they compromised with a pumpkin but they
still wanted to put some sort of Michael into that pumpkin and that's the eye in the nose so yeah

(37:10):
and I have I've actually never heard of that I feel like I need to go check this out to see
maybe maybe every time I watch I'm like where is like I can't find it but yeah it's sweating
nerd stuff for sure even just going on beyond the actual film itself the poster is something that

(37:31):
is so iconic that has always stuck with me yeah like back back in the days of physical video
media stores I feel like everyone has like those like horror movies that they remember as a child
passing by and really sticking with them in the Halloween poster there's always one that really
stuck with me because it's just such a simple design but it works so well and the tag line

(37:54):
the night he came home so effective and really to the idea of um horror in the heartland or at the
house um you know almost like make they think of like like a divorce to dad or something like
coming back like it's it's very familial in that way um so yeah that's Halloween

(38:15):
they be real quick do you just because you brought up the poster do you know about the the face
that's in the the hand as well that's something that there's another kind of subliminal thing that's
in there well is that like in like the reflection of the handle yeah so like if you look at the hand
hold I'm just looking because I have this poster on my wall if you look at the hand holding the knife
like the top knuckle like the knuckles kind of form what looks like a face being suffocated um I

(38:39):
don't know if that was intentional but once you see it you can't unsee it that's certainly there too
and I know we're also about to wrap up can I just also real quick uh I want to bring a one more
quick thing just because like a little fun uh fact do you know about the puff of smoke in this movie
do you know about this this is another kind of sweaty nerd thing about this movie you don't
there is so uh you kind of you kind of have to go back and see it and and uh specifically find that shot

(39:05):
but it's the scene when Laurie sees Michael standing behind the bush she's with Annie Annie goes and
she kind of places her like oh Laurie dear he wants to ask you out or whatever there's a shot of Annie
and you can see a puff of smoke coming in from the right of the frame and it kind of goes in and
it sort of like dissipates and what that is is it's John Carpenter smoking a cigarette while they

(39:26):
were filming that scene and he just didn't care enough and so he just pops it and you can see it go
into frame and it's one of my favorite moments to point out like whenever I'm watching with something
like look this the smoke it's John Carpenter's off the smoke anyways another fun fact there's so many
incredible pieces of trivia that we could just dedicate a whole other hours to um what
happened there is is Michael Myers's face um they're they're on the TV they're watching the thing

(39:51):
the original 1950s sci-fi movie that John Carpenter would later famously go to remake
and in a much better form um so many thanks so much yeah just so many incredible touches and
really simple things that add some of the character to this movie um we some one we didn't get
to hear your thoughts as to whether or not you would recommend this um what would you say at anyone

(40:15):
who's curious around the fence by saying Halloween I think that anybody who has not seen Halloween
should definitely see it like I think this is like I mean I don't know if I would go as far as to say
that like if you if this is the only movie that you could watch you should watch this but I think if
this is the only horror movie that you could watch you should watch this you should prioritize

(40:40):
at least seeing Halloween at least once I mean I watching it the first time I I didn't really get it
but then again I was kind of ignorant to to the influence that it has especially a someone who loves
horror movies I mean I'm more attached to to more extreme stuff more body horror and so I think

(41:01):
that's also kind of what made me so dismissive of of how important Halloween is but I think
you know I think this movie that you have to see because after all it is really enjoyable and
luncheon if you're a horror lover I would eventually argue I would yeah I would eventually

(41:22):
argue that this is like the godfather of horror cinema in the sense that you really can't
be a horror fan or even really a cinephile in general if you haven't seen Halloween like I think
it's really definitive to just like film language as a whole even outside of the horror genre I think
if you if you like film if you respect film you need to see Halloween just because it's done so

(41:45):
much not just for the genre but cinema as a whole Jeff I'm gonna take it you probably won't
recommend this movie just kidding I don't think anybody should see it honestly and you know
Simone I also think too I think you're as a little you're being a little harsh on yourself saying
like oh it's ignorance it's not so much that it was ignorance I don't think because I also remember
I you know I went to see Halloween I think at the Orleans ones because for some reason it was

(42:08):
just playing there and there was like a group of young people and I noticed throughout the movie
that usually when you're supposed to be scared they were laughing a lot I think it's just because you
know people of our generation were sort of used to movies in a different way we're used to things
flowing differently we're not kind of used to that sort of like again it's a kind of a slow burn
in the beginning of Halloween and there are certainly you know the dialogue is quite wooden

(42:30):
the acting especially from you know Nancy Luminus' Annie is a little questionable even like
something it's like when you see their dead bodies in the closet the faces they're making are
kind of funny so like I get it I do I think a lot of people have had that experience I would just
tell our listeners you know college students you haven't seen Halloween for the first time you
know you have to view it not from a modern lens because it's a dated movie it's made in 1978

(42:55):
it's very dated but you have to look at it I think the timelessness of it the reason why it's so
iconic the reason why it inspired this you know 13 movie franchise is because of the themes of
people and the themes of darkness and its influence and all the tropes it created and you have to look
at it from a lens of how was this movie viewed in 1978 instead of how is it viewed today

(43:16):
yeah I recommend Halloween I think I think what we're like the reason why I'm kind of more harsh
on myself is because I typically like I feel like I can I have the lens to kind of appreciate older
works too and so I felt like I was unnecessarily kind of like critical of Halloween with kind of

(43:40):
what I'm interested in in general I think speaking to maybe how dated this movie is I watched it
once with my probably like nine or ten year old cousin and they asked me you know why are these
old ladies going to high school and I think I think they thought that because they have

(44:01):
their hair and makeup and clothes done in a way that were probably really hip and like swanky in
the 70s yeah yeah yeah see it with older people now that they thought that these characters are a lot
older than they were supposed to I could very much see that but that being said Jeff I wanted to ask you
if someone walked Halloween they really enjoy it where do they go from there do they watch all

(44:24):
the rest of the Halloween movies as as our resident expert where do you go from Halloween well
real quick just before I answer that I just want to go back to what he said so Jamie Lee Curtis was
17 at the time of filming she was the only one of the three teenagers movie was like an actual teenager
I think PJ souls um I think she was in like her mid 20s at that point and I'm pretty sure Nancy

(44:45):
Limus was closer to 30 but yeah Jamie Lee Curtis was an actual teenager and I think you can kind
of see that on her face she does have sort of that like you know bit of a naive you know young
makes her very empathetic especially compared to her friends because they do seem a little bit older
than her it you know kind of makes their deaths not you know as impactful I don't think that's the
glory word of the why they casted her but oh well she's the daughter of Janet Lee who was in

(45:10):
psycho yeah absolutely that's that was it yeah she is technically a nepot baby right Jamie Lee Curtis
she did she did kind of get hired because yeah but yeah you know she she was considered horror
royalty because her mom was a Marion in psycho and yeah very iconic character who gets killed and
arguably the most iconic death scene in any movie which gets killed in the shower um so that was

(45:34):
a big reason why she was hired but I also think too there's there was a story I remember reading
where Jamie Lee Curtis was like oh I thought I was so bad that I was gonna get fired any minute
like I was like oh no my performance was terrible and Carbander would call her every night and say
hey you're doing great like don't worry you're keep doing what you're doing and I think she'd
give them awesome performance in this movie I love Jamie Lee Curtis in this movie and I think

(45:57):
her performance was great yeah absolutely um going back to what you said Davey uh there's a lot
of timelines involved again we're 13 movies deep I actually just finished rewatching all of the
Halloween for October I just got done with ends um so they're all kind of fresh on my mind there's
so many ways you can go about watching Halloween um you can go with the original timeline which

(46:23):
would be Halloween Halloween 2 Halloween 4 5 and 6 and then they rebooted it in the late 90s with
H2O so now it would be Halloween Halloween 2 Halloween H2O and Halloween resurrection um or just
don't watch resurrection at all because that movie is a colossal piece of shit and it's terrible um you
could watch the Rob Zombie remakes which I am not a big fan of I know they have their fans um

(46:45):
I personally I'm not one of them uh or you can watch this newer timeline which gets rid of all of the
sequels and it's Halloween 1978 and then now we have this new David Gordon Green trilogy um all of
them have their merits uh I love Halloween 2 from the 80s I know David we've talked about that that
that movie gets kind of a bad rep because yes it does have the brother sister angle which I

(47:07):
personally am not a fan of but it's very aesthetically close to this movie because it was made only a few
years after it's shot by Dean Kundee written by John Carpenter so it's very very similar to this movie
and it's a really good kind of one two combo because they're all set on the same night um uh you know
I think the best way to get the story of Michael Myers I said this in the last uh our last meeting as well

(47:31):
is just watch the first one because truthfully none of the sequels have ever lived up to the greatness
of the first Halloween and it's a complete story and another need to see what happens you know more of
the night he came home because this movie has a message it has a theme and by the end of it it tells
you that theme exactly which is that Michael is pure evil and evil never dies evil will always be

(47:55):
there it ends with these shots of the house and you hear him breathing you know he's everywhere and
I think that is a much scarier conclusion to that story than any sequel could have possibly given
us so my recommendation would be just watch the original Halloween because it is in my opinion a masterpiece
all right well that wraps up our thoughts on Halloween 1978 uh which we'll be showing at the

(48:20):
Beverly uh October 28th to October 31st along with a few other films uh which I would like to
shout out uh Pulitzer Guys will be showing on Halloween night uh along with uh I found out uh the
presidential inauguration of Donald Trump in 2017 uh which the Beverly Simply States uh in their
description of it you cannot begin to imagine how truly terrifying it is that's awesome yeah so great

(48:46):
things going on at the Beverly go check it out if you have an open Halloween ghosty Halloween or
Pulitzer guys are in the different place um yeah that wraps up my thoughts happy Halloween guys happy
Halloween after good treating imagine by the Rogers Foundation the Beverly Theater brings cinematic

(49:07):
connectivity novel collaborations live happening cultural portals and assessed for independent
spirits to downtown Las Vegas with emissions a stage uncommon cinematic literary and live
experiences the Beverly Theater is Las Vegas's first and only independent film house storytelling arena
and live music venue check out our event calendar at thebevelytheater.com

(49:36):
you
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bonus Episode - John Carpenter’s ‘Halloween’ (1978) Deep Dive!