Greg Rousseau Film Room: Pass Rush Arsenal and DE Responsibilities | Film Room - The Film Room - Bills Breakdowns and Analysis

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:30):
What's good, folks, Welcome to another edition of the Cover
one Film Room, the show that gives you the hows
and the whys behind both the good and the bad
of the Buffalo Bills. I am one of your two hosts,
Anthony Prohaska, joined as always by Eric Turner and Eric
the Man.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Just the heat, the heat, the heater that we're on.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, I feel like if we had a heat check,
it doesn't matter. Like we're still shooting from the logo
and everything's still going in back to back to back
episodes in the film room with tremendous guests.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Oh, it's a good time to be in the Cover
one Film Room.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
So we have another guest that has come on the
show before, so he's been through the ringer with us
a few times. When we're talking x's and o's film
advanced metrics, none other than Gregor Rousseau starting defensive end
from the Buffalo Bills. Greg, thanks again for joining us
in the film room.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Brother, for sure, thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Thank you, you know we have to say also right
and congratulations brother, congratulations on the contract you've earned it.
We've talked prior, you know, to the show about your development.
How far you've come from Miami, man, But congrats on
earning that.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
Contract most definitely, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, now we want to talk some scheme stuff to
kick off this show, Greg, and so, one thing that
I think a lot of fans don't realize is the
scheme of the Bills and how you guys play a
lot of too high coverages, too high safeties deep, and
how just that alone, the coverages and having those safeties
deep can affect you as a defensive end, whether you're

(02:00):
talking in the run or the past. So can you
kind of tell us about and explain to us the
responsibilities and stress that that type of scheme puts on
you as a defensive end, not just from a run standpoint,
but also as a pass rusher.

Speaker 6 (02:14):
Yeah, i'd say yeah, like you said, we do a
lot of six min boxes and split safety to stop.
You know, obviously there's a lot of good quarterbacks out
there and a lot of good receivers out there. So
as part, if you get your corner pressed or whatever
in a single single coverage in the outside, it's easily
just throw it up over there and you're kind of
leaving them on the island. So, like you said, this
safety thing really helps the defense, but at the same time,

(02:34):
in the run game, with's a.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Lot of stress on us up front.

Speaker 6 (02:37):
We're short, we're short of gap, so it's like somebody
kind of has to make a player.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Somebody kind of has to play two gaps.

Speaker 6 (02:43):
But even though you might have to see gap, you
might have the gap that have back back outside because
you kind.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Of shot somebody. Even though you might have somebody, it
might be a safety that's fitting.

Speaker 6 (02:53):
From fifteen yards or however many yards and it's back there,
so that's gonna be a big play if you let
that get past. So it's kind of something we take
pride in on our defense, and it's all about trying
to stop their own six in the box.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Because if we can do that, you could really beat anybody.

Speaker 6 (03:04):
Because then you're forcing a quarterback to throw them to
tougher looks to read. When you got two safeties, you
can mix it up and you've gotten more people back
there in general, but it does get it does get dicey.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
In the run game, and it's a challenge for sure,
but we embrace it up front. It's something that we do.

Speaker 6 (03:18):
We do a good job at most of the time,
but you know sometimes you go and get good teams
and they have their leaky yards. But yes, it's also
like I said, it's something that we know before the game,
like we talk about it.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
If we could do.

Speaker 6 (03:29):
That, we know we have a really really really good
chance to win the game because we're gonna make them.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
One to mention it in your.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Ability to function within the Bills defense in a variety
of those box counts, it shows up in a significant
amount of ways. So six man boxes are last, twenty
two tackles for you, third most, sixteen of those solo,
second most, four tackles for lost, second most. Seven man
boxes is fourteen tackles fifteenth nine solo, which is six
five tackles for loss, which is first, and then seven

(03:57):
man boxes are last. Kind of broadening further, thirty six
tackles for you, which is second, twenty five solo which
is second, and then nine tackles for loss, which is first.
So you see it statistically and your playing what you've
been able to do. And I want to also kind
of tie that into something you just mentioned. You know,
we've talked about on the show a bunch from a
run fit standpoint in analyzing the tape, but also where

(04:18):
we want to see the defense going forward.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
But we talk about what this bill's defense has.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Been traditionally like one gap penetrating front, but then we
talk about more gap and a half and two gapping.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
You mentioned that briefly.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Just talk about some of the particulars and that and
the differences for you when you have just a single
gap responsibility versus more and gap in half and two,
and the kind of the difference between all three of
those because it significantly impacts how you come off the
ball and what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 6 (04:43):
I say, let's say I'm I have a situation where
I'm thinking we have six mini bots and it's like
it's a normal defense, and I'm thinking I might have
a gap and a half if it's let's say, belly
kicking and running back bouncing outside even though I had
to see gap in my best side outside.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Of the CFS, I'm thinking I got a gap in
a half.

Speaker 6 (04:58):
The way I'm coming off the ball, I'm thinking like
hands hands at help and pushing that knocking that tight
end back and putting my eyes my in my gap
and then being able to arm over get back outside
of the gap.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
The fifth belly or something like that, something like that.

Speaker 6 (05:10):
So I mean that's a situation for let's say first
intending they just called normal play. But I also would
say that that play called puts you more into a
run mindset because we're short somebody in box. So you
see somebody's when they transit a play like that on
first NAM and they transition to like boot or something like that,
it's like you might be a little slower to get
on your restaurants and thinking like this is my sea
gap and the tight end already is outside and tight

(05:31):
just trying to stop me from getting outside. And if
it's a pass play, your job is to get outside.
And then opposed to a play like let's say we're
bringing we're bringing five or whatever, I know, like my
gap is outside, I'm just going. I'm whether tighten trying
to reach me or try to pass.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
I'm just going.

Speaker 6 (05:45):
And I'm playing more I wouldn't say more aggressive, but
just more definitive. But like, I know, I'm going outside
and that's my track and I'm just going that way.
So I mean, personally, I'm sure all of us are
front like those plays better because we know we can
just go. Yeah, it's a lot easier. But I mean
when you can make a play and and you're responsible
in one gap, but you're going to the other one,
that's what those those players they're slept on and they

(06:05):
don't show up on ESPN the next e are.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
And those are big players.

Speaker 6 (06:09):
And those those players turn into second and nine or
third and eight or third and seven, and then you
celebrate that. You celebrate the plays on third and eight
and h third and eight one is a sack whatever.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
But the players that get you there, that's most important.
And then when you see teams.

Speaker 6 (06:23):
Lose games a lot of times it happens to all
the teams in the league, it's usually because teams are
second and five and then third and two, and then
third and one, third and one, third and one. That's
how you know what I'm saying, that's when it gets
hard to win. So because if you can make plays
early in those downs, yeah, team might get a couple
of third and longs on you, but that's not that's
not a consistent formula.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
For the teams for the other offensive line on like.

Speaker 6 (06:42):
Oh, we're gonna convert every third and eight thirty nine,
Like that's not They don't want to live in that world.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
So I mean all it already comes down to.

Speaker 6 (06:48):
I think winning really comes down and stopping the run
first and down, being able to transition into a past version,
gain some fresh quarterback, and then forcing those situations that
we want to live in second and seventh plus third
and ten, third, eight, thirty thirty seven when we can
really put our ears back and start running games and
start getting creative of what we want.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
To do and how we want to tack on defense,
because if it's third or two, we're kind of we're
not at their mercy.

Speaker 6 (07:10):
But they have a lot of things open, especially field positionalwise,
they're past to thirty five.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Nowadays they're thirty five.

Speaker 6 (07:16):
They're probably going for it, and then that's that goes
all the way into you know what I'm saying. So
one first down pretty much with a new kickoff rule,
it's like first it's like a four down territory for
the rest of the field. So if you're living in
that thirty one fourth to one world is tough. It's
really tough to get wins.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
And I love that that answer because that's exactly what
we're looking for when we're asking that question, because the
scheme the too high safety scheme, the light boxes, the
nickel you know, ninety five percent of the time plays
into how you as a run defender. First of all,
are in your mindset as a pass rusher because like
you said initially, in these situations with light boxes, you

(07:50):
have to think from a more a run perspective first,
then transition to a pass rusher. And that run to
pass transition is it's got to happen bleak of a time.
But it's also another thing that plays to your strength,
which is your length and your size because you're getting
your hands on that lineman quickly and then you're again
peeking your your processing and then transitioning to a pass rusher,

(08:13):
and that is that is not something that you know,
guys that are smaller and shorter than you and especially
arm length wise, have the ability to do. And that's
why I think this game fits you so well because
you can do that. You can play the run with
the best of them, but at the same time you
can transition from that run defender with these light boxes
and in this scheme into a pass rusher.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, exactly, it's about on.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, even some of the things you talked about there,
like and giving that answer like you see it on
the tape all the time. Like we'll watch you like
control a tight end or a tackle and then because
of your length, you could just almost like cover an
entire other gap and be like knock, come here and
just like grab that runner and like yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
That type of ability for you.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
You see it regularly, you know, continuing that aspect the
rush side of it.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
So talk a little bit Ryn, talking a little pass rush.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Now, we've seen you line up on multiple sides, and
we get a lot of stuff from a lot of
fans in terms of what side they think you.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Are best at as a rusher.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
So when it comes for you rushing from the left,
rushing from the right, do you have a preference? Do
you think one side suits you better? And within that,
who were what decides what side you rush from?

Speaker 6 (09:23):
I'd say what the signs did to start with to
kind of just be like a personnel thing and other
dudes on the field and kind of trying to move
everybody around and this guy, this guy isn't as good
on this side, but this guy could kind of play
both pretty well.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
I feel like that's when they're kind of moving around,
Like last year with Vonn he.

Speaker 6 (09:37):
Kind of wanted to play the left, so I was
just like, cool, it's whatever, I'll play the right and
just work on my game over there, especially being a
younger player.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I mean, but I mean, to answer the other
part of the question, I would say I like the left.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
More, but at the same time because it's like when
you make an inside move on the right, it's almost
as differ rushing on the left. I do like I
do like make the inside moves on the right, and
then I also just like the left because that's just
my natural like hit flip and being I'm left handed
and being able to use his hand to kind of
move hands out of the way or whatever on this side.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
I like that.

Speaker 6 (10:02):
But at the same time, like I said, with the
left handed thing, if I'm on the right side, I
could stab and then arm over with my left hands
and left handed, so right, I like the left, wore
I also like the left a little more in the
run game to just be able to control the outside
arm in the run game. I mean in the run
game or like run game transitioning to play action game
as well.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
So when it comes to left versus right, now, well,
do pass set whether it's a vertical angle jump set
from the offensive lineman. Does that change which side you
you maybe prefer and maybe because of the go to
moves and transitions that you have from side.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, yeah, I'd say yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:38):
When it comes to a jump set, if I'm on
the if I'm on the right side, I know I
can just put my foot on the ground and going
side real flick and if I have the freedom to
do that on that play, so I say, yeah, it does.
It does change it. It does change it.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
When when you're studying, you know, last time we had
your in the show, we we actually like film study
habits and how you prepare and what you're doing and
how you how you see the game. Quarter drops obviously
that's part huge part of your world. You're rushing the QB.
You're trying to get to where you think they're gonna
get to. Do you get any kind of data or
do you work in like your film preparation on a

(11:11):
QB's typical drop back or like spots in the pocket. No,
one like kind of this is how they like to
drop back, this is where they like to set up from,
and then how you build that into your rush plan
for the week.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, I would. I would definitely say so.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
And I mean, like, for example, if you have a
guy who's dropping like more like nine yard here, it's
a little bit deeper in your running. Let's say like
the te game where the three text getting that be
gap and I know, like instead of maybe on a
week where the week before I might have done it
in three steps or two quick steps or whatever, on
this week I might have to do whole four steps
and kind of get the online in the stab first
and then come underneath. So yeah, yeah, i'd say changing

(11:45):
things like that, I'd say when it comes to my
one on one plan, I'm still focused on just winning
and just winning type first and foremost opposed to winning
like just all the way around the loop. Because now nowadays,
like I feel like seventy percent the quarterbacks are athletic
and if they see a little you know what I'm saying,
a little increase whatever, they're gonna they're gonna step out
and make it play. Even the ones that don't like
to run, they can still improvise and kind of extend plays.

(12:06):
And I feel like that's when you're really putting a
defense in the secondary and a hard spot and when
they're trying to defend receivers that are running two three
routes because the quarterbacks running around. So it's kind of
like you don't want to be you don't want to
get too loose with.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
It, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, And the other thing that comes into play when
it comes to quarterback drops, ball getting out. It's one
thing that we've seen and talked about against the Bill defense.
You guys see a lot of quick game, a lot
of the balls out very quickly because of the style
defense you guys play, and how the offense wants to
remain efficient and stay on track. And so again, your
pass rush plan has to change not just on the

(12:40):
depth of the quarterback and where he's setting up, whether
it's eight yards versus nine and a half y, but
also how quickly.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
That boss getting the ball out and then you.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Can get your hands up as well.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Right exactly exactly.

Speaker 6 (12:50):
That's a huge That's really a way that I've seen
us get get attacked a lot just quick passes the RPOs,
you know what I'm saying, that type of stuff and
kind of just it's annoying as a b lineman, but
I feel like it's becoming it's becoming more part of
the game, I think a year after year, especially with
when dudes have fast, quick receivers that they can just
get in the space real quick.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
And they can get out there and make it try
to get in to make a play.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, it's got to be super annoying for you. It's
super annoying for us, Like we.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Talked about so much.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
We talked about it so much as offseason, and we
haven't asked Terrell Bernard about it last week because you know,
the opposing offense is how they want to do ball
control style, you know, Josh off the.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
Field, off the field, off the field, but.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Also you know quick game plays into that because it's
a short, quick passing game and it's efficient. It's getting
the ball out and then matriculating down the field, which yes,
it can be very difficult to do to put ten
plays twelve plays together for a touchdown, But if they're
possessing the ball and keeping it away from Josh, that
is usually that has been the game plan, especially last year.
So we saw a bunch of that quick game stuff
against you guys last year in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, exactly. I feel like the whole when we played cac.
I remember the whole first drive.

Speaker 6 (13:56):
I felt like it was like it was like he
wasn't holding off to the ball.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, it was just like quick, quick, quick, like all
the way. I don't know if they scored it. I
don't know if they score the drive.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
It felt like all the way down the fields was quick, quick, quick,
quick run game quick quick run game is.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Working yeah, quick.

Speaker 6 (14:13):
Yeah, fast like But like you said, yeah, it was
run action like like if I tackle with a friend,
he would come to reach me and then they tho
quick little slash. So I mean, it's it's a it's
a good it's a good strategy until until it's not,
you know what I'm saying. That's when that's when playmaking
comes in. You know what I'm saying, Force fumble, whatever
it is.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Tit, pass up in the air.

Speaker 6 (14:32):
Uh, just things like that that kind of get get
the OC out of his comfort zone.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
But it's tough to stop it is.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
You mentioned the Chiefs game and how the season ended. Uh,
so I want to talk about your responsibilities in that game,
the defense fan's responsibility in that game.

Speaker 5 (14:46):
What did the Chiefs do to you guys?

Speaker 4 (14:47):
You kind of touched upon it that in that final
game that challenged your responsibilities that we talked about earlier
again run the pass transition and things like that. You
mentioned r pos the quick game, but specifically the contained
responsibilit on some of those third and fourth and ones,
the short yard spread out, So those bootlegs. How that
challenges you as a defensive end in that game.

Speaker 6 (15:08):
Yeah, I'd say the way it challenges me would be,
I mean a lot of times when we're just a
normal in our normal defense, we got the normal guess
we got and then the d ns aren't way outside
because your way if you're way outside in nine text
and it's third and one or fourth on one, like
you can just literally just hand the ball to running
back and now the linebacker the ball has to get

(15:29):
to the running ba before he can gain one yard.
That's not that's not even fair to ask any any linebacker, safety,
Nickel or whoever.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
So I mean we're.

Speaker 6 (15:37):
Kind of d lines on short yards who can dn't
so a lot of times on those players on their
game outside, Uh, it would be like third and one
or whatever, and then we're all thinking run and run.
Full Back Bairey died like the first time played them
at the Orchard Park. They kept handing it to that
fullback or running back and it was like a little
die play.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
We stopped, we stopped it a lot, but he was
the up back right.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
And I think in the game the last game they
put hunt there.

Speaker 6 (15:57):
I think they put yeah, yeah, and they gave and
they gave it to them too, and they gave it
a hut to start, I think, or they yeah, they
gave it something once or twice in the short yards
and then they u but off of that with that
same information, they started running the boot.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
So it's like speak the exactly.

Speaker 6 (16:11):
Then you're thinking, like, yo, I'm I got this gap
right here, and ain't nothing.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
There's nobody just gonna run through my gap.

Speaker 6 (16:17):
So it's like in those situations, In those situations it
gets dicey because it's then it's like and I'd also
say it all goes back to.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
The down and business.

Speaker 6 (16:25):
When you look at it, it's less about the play.
It's more about the fact that it's third and one.
So the offense, you know what I'm saying, They kind
of got you where they want you to think it and run.
You think and run, then boom they run a boot
and we could I know I could have adjusted to
it better personally, But at the same time, I'm not
the type to try to guess plays because then that
one time where you're like, oh, this was a boot
and you run out there and then they handed off

(16:47):
in your gap and it's a fifty yard touchdown, Like
then you're really gonna be getting it. Looked that crazy
because that's actually your job. And we preach a lot
about just doing your job, you know what I'm saying.
At the same time, doing your job comes up and
being able to make adjustments and I gotta loot this
over here, moops changing over here. But at the same time,
it's like end of the day, like our base fundamentals,
like hey, if you got this gap, you got this
gap for the most part, especially I play like third

(17:09):
and one.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
And that ties into what you talked about earlier.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
If you have offenses that are winning on those early
down first, yeah, it win on first and second, you're
sitting there in third and short.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Even to your.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Point earlier, even if they don't get it on third
and short, it's still probably fourth.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
And shoth of the inches.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Probably goes for that, and it puts you like as
an edge or defensive end however anybody wants to verbalize it.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
It puts you in a really difficult spot.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Just those like you mentioned a bunch of them, like
you have those BCR responsibilities like the boot like counter
like the stuff you're trying to get a regular run,
like you're in. You're in a spot where you have
multiple responsibilities. And then if you add in any type
of like schematic like Jedi mind tricks, like like a
team like the Chiefs, like you added yes and put it,

(17:58):
and it all stacks with you know, losing a little
bit on early downs and.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
First down, yeah, first second down, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6 (18:05):
It's all about I say, it's more about and it
doesn't get celebrated because that's not what That's not what
the moment comes down to. When you're watching the game.
It's not like, oh, this is first and ten, like
here we go. It's like it's about this is third
and two or what or whatever. It's about the third
downs and the fourth downs. But it's really about that.
It's really about that. And this is not for just
our defense, for any defense. It's really about that six
that six yard run on first down.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, the eight yard run
on first down.

Speaker 6 (18:30):
And it's about that that's the problem, more so than
the than the short yards versions. It's about when you
win that first down you put do life get so
much easier and and vice versa.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
If you're on offense and you and you have a play.

Speaker 6 (18:42):
Where in complete first down or whatever, second and ten
like now that OC is like looking at this place
that are like, you know what.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I'm saying, When you start the shrink, it gets a
lot smarter.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah, exactly, No, that's those are great points man, and
things that you know we're gonna talk about here in
the film portion of this. So let's get in into
some of the film to start with some of your
run defense stuff. Greg, And uh, this is I love
this play against the Broncos. One because we broke it
down with Trel Bernard last week. The other half of it,
the past RPO screen half of it. But I want

(19:11):
to talk about it from an answers standpoint for you
on this tackle for loss against the Broncos because last
week Terrell broke this down saying that he changed the
coverage to man to the top of the screen because
of Mims and that four strong RPO screen that they
showed heavily on film, but we didn't get to talk
about the run side of this. Where As Bernard is
a man coverage on MIMS, it lightens the box down.

(19:34):
Now there's a five man box. And you guys had
answers for this throughout the year.

Speaker 6 (19:39):
Yeah, exactly, And like you said, right now, it got
somebody for.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
The whole d line and they got somebody fro Lonto.
So you know, it's five, it's five, it's five on five,
and it's.

Speaker 6 (19:49):
Like one of those situations where it's like somebody's just
got to make a play, so we so we run
this little this little kind of just like popping popping
slidner nias.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
So then it's kind of like you covered two gas
and once.

Speaker 6 (20:00):
Even if you don't if you're not able to make
the play, you're still making the bounce out uh hopefully
wide enough from Alana to scrape over the top.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
So yeah, and that's so that was my specific follow
up like for this, and you you touched on it
a bit, like so they've got five up front to
handle the four down that you got plus molonas so
you got a hat on a hat five on five.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
But because there's five blockers.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
That means there's six gaps, so you guys are out
gap because you only have five bodies for the six gaps.
So this type of game allows you to kind of
steal a gap or play in kind of a race
one and still make a play on it. And then
you you make a tremendous individual play there exactly.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, and we saw this in week one as well.
And yeah, again, same type of thing where you know,
you guys are in a two high shell. You pretty
much have a light box because you see Bernard playing
the screen off here and they're actually even pulling the
center here, and you once again kind of exchange gaps
your gap exchange there where you're spiking inside hopefully allowing
Williams to get over the top and scrape over the

(20:57):
top to make the tackle play.

Speaker 5 (20:58):
You blow this play up yourself else.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
For sure, for sure, definitely.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
And I feel like this one, this one is slightly
different than the other one since they're pulling and stuff,
but it's all about I feel like if I can
get the way I look at it, like, if I
can get that tackle, if I can get that tackle
to kind of just cross my face, it's almost like
if he goes too far outside of me, I'm also
covering the gap that's outside of the tackle, So it's
like now covering.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Two gaps because he's not There's no way he's getting.

Speaker 6 (21:22):
Outside me right now because the tackles on the other
side and I'm already stacking the tackle. I'm where the
tackle was at this point, so it's like, now he's
got to cut up. And even if I don't make
the tackle, I got I got a volunteer, and I
got DQ coming on the backside.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
So yeah, talk about it.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
As soon as you get inside that tackle there and
you see that pulling center coming from you, what's going
through your head and what's like the.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Next step for you? As soon as you kind of see.

Speaker 6 (21:44):
That's say, yeah, I say the first step is like
I'm gonna That's why I didn't really play into the
center like aggressively, because I'm trying to stack the tackle,
so I'm trying to get to where the tackle was
he kind of stepped out. I'm trying to get to
where he was, and I know if I can get
get to where he was and get like one or
two yards up the field, I know there's really no
room for the running back to go. And then at
that point I'm like, all right, let me just kind
of slow play the center and by the time my

(22:06):
time for my guys. But I end up being able
to keep them off me with a little pushing in
the running back runs right to me.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, that's such a good even if you didn't make
that tackle, Like, that's such a good play because you
cut off that outside and then you get back towards
your help and then I think this one again, you
you end up making the play. So I'm talking on
both sides of my mouth a little bit, but this
one is I think it's a good example of like
doing your job, like you are fitting that responsibility and
trying to cut off an entire aspect of the field

(22:32):
outside of the hashes to play for the rest of
the defense.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Exactly, exactly. Now.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
One one thing I want to ask you about too,
is you know, the alignment of a running back. You know,
obviously you picked up on the track that he was running.
It was kind of flat in front of the quarterback
in this you know read type look. But the depth
of the running back and where he lies. If if
the running back is a little deeper or or he's
a little in front of the running back.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
What in front of the quarterback?

Speaker 3 (22:56):
What?

Speaker 4 (22:57):
What does that signal to you on what type of
play is a run track you may see from that
running back?

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, I say when when we see that running back
in the B gap right.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
There, yep, we're thinking, we're thinking more so running than
whenever he's like not way behind the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
We're thinking outside runs too.

Speaker 6 (23:12):
So I mean, and they kept running this play during
the game, and they even they put it, they changed
it up by putting the tight end in front of
me and still run it like in a different way.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
But I mean that that.

Speaker 6 (23:21):
Path, it's kind of screaming run because a lot of
times when they when he's when he's child out, why
he's closer to stacking the running backs, closer to stacking
number seventy three, And then you can yeah, this is
the pass play.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
And I'd also say you just look.

Speaker 6 (23:32):
You can look at how if you go back to
the beginning to play, you can see how number seventy
and seventy three. But I'm looking at seveny he's crowded
the ball. He looks like he's damn damn near past
the guard. You know what I'm saying, like he's ready
to ready to run block. So I'm thinking one hundred
percent on this play before even before the play, like
it's run.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, your kid on his stances.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, because he.

Speaker 6 (23:52):
Doesn't, he doesn't have his left foot's not back at all.
He's like square, he stands is almost like a linebackers
before the play, you know what I mean. He's back
a little bit, but not much.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
So let's get into some of your pass russ stuff.
And obviously a lot of your power moves are where
you hang your hat. I'm gonna start with this one.
Obviously a really big play against the Colts where you
use your long arm from the right side here. So
talk to us about maybe what you saw in film
versus this tackle, how you thought you could win against
this tackle and the Colts tackles altogether, and of course

(24:24):
walkers through how you made this play for the stripsack
there against the Colts.

Speaker 6 (24:28):
Yeah, well, if you go back, if you go all
the way back to the beginning and the play, I'm
looking at the I'm looking at the tackle and he
before the play, even though the tight ends and that
can get dice. And when you got that those two
times in front of you, it feels like a run.
But that tackle, the way he got his left hand
on his knee, that he's screaming passed but before the play,
like I'm not even looking.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
The tight ends are like ghosts to me.

Speaker 6 (24:50):
And this is also something I've been I've been working
on and trying to see you runner pass And I mean,
like a lot of times you go get really good
tackle and even in this situation, you'll hide it a
little bit and it'll it'll have you playing run a
little bit. But in this situation, I'm thinking, I'm thinking,
I'm already thinking aggressive, and we have a blitz, we
got d Ham coming, so I'm already I'm already thinking aggressive.
But once I saw the tackle in that position, I'm like, yeah,
I already know what I'm gonna go do. And then

(25:12):
during the film I watched, I saw that he was passive,
not too passive with his hands, but he was but
he was waiting for you to make contact first. So
I was just thinking, like, all right, I'm gonna just
kind of I'm gonna see how even at the end
he pulls his hands back again and I'm not even
going for like a double swipe or.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Nothing, but he like pulls his hands back again.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
It kind of less to me right there, Like he
does a little like little flash and pulls his hands
back and he leaves the chest wide open, and I'm like,
all right, man, I'm just gonna take it because there's
there's no reason, there's no point to try to finesse that,
because he's gonna push me by the by the logo,
you know what I mean. So I'm thinking once he
opened his chests up, he made it. He made it
pretty easy for me. Stabbed, stabbed him, and then I

(25:49):
was gonna get off, and I saw Flaco about to
throw the ball, and then I just kind of just
used my same hands and went kind of end up
going over the top of his shoulder and just reaching
out trying to get them off. He kind of opens
when I pushed it on him, kind of opens his
whole entire shoulder.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Up and right there. Yeah, this one was such a
right there yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
The way he opened it, it was it. It was
such a weird thing to see on tape because it's
like your arm just completely like straight line right the
rides right through as if he's just like, oh, okay,
go ahead. The hand placement for me, for you with
that left hand right on the end again he allows
you to get first touched and that yeah, great, still
shot Eric, that placement for you. The first time we

(26:28):
had you on the show a couple of years ago,
you talked so much about hand placement and based on
the tackle sets and how perpendicular they were to the
sideline or not, like what number, what pack you were
trying to get your hand on, and your hand placement
there is just so good for getting into his body.
And it was like what you talked about the first
time you had you on right on that pack right

(26:48):
underneath like that breastplate or chest plate and it's over
as soon as you get that.

Speaker 6 (26:52):
Yeah, facts, Yeah, And on this one, I'm thinking sometimes
you'll see I'm sure you've seen the plays like one
of us the Jaguars, I'll stabbing the kind of arm over.
But because it's a it's a blitz. Even though I'm
like I'm going longer, I'm i still was favoring staying outside.
And it's like if our were to go inside and blitzening,
I'm I'm the only one I'm supposed to be outside
and if he getting flat focus out there right, really

(27:12):
nobody out there at all, So I'm thinking, like boom,
I was thinking the same hand place it kind of
like inside tech ish, but then it ended up it
ended up just kind of I kept pushing it back,
but I favored this was my footwork. I favorite making
sure I can stay outside. If he does quarterback ends
up stepping back right right. He's not the most athletic,
but still you know, no, you.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Still have the responsibility.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
And I love that too because usually when you go
for that again, we see it on tape and you
talk about you'll hit that pack and then it's like
followed by that stab and the bang.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
You're hitting that all over. But yeah, this one was
just weird that you just kept going right through it.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
It's it's something that comes up when we talk about
your game a lot on social media and on the
show is a lot of people don't see the nuance
to your rushes and what goes into it. This is
why we ask you these type of questions because there's
a lot of thought that goes into the power rush.
Is that for some fans they just think you're just
you're just pushing the tackle, but there's a lot of
nuance to that in context that has left out. And

(28:04):
so here's another one. We're using kind of that stab
and long arm against the Cardinals. And and I love
these these rushes because you have these transitions. You talk
about the long arm and stab, but then you change
up just a little bit on this one.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
So walk us through this play against the Cards.

Speaker 6 (28:20):
Yeah, well he was, he was all those guys I'm filming.
I feel like he's becoming more of a thing throughout
the years I've been in the league. The whole like snatch,
the thing you see Deon doing a lot he does
isn't really good. And I mean, yeah, he tried, he
tries to do it, but I'm able to get contact
first and then like I see him like later, like
slightly later, the rest he like moves his he like

(28:40):
lifts his hands up and goes and goes like he
was gonna At first, I was gonna kind of do
the same move I did versus the Colts, and it's uh,
just to do a long arm and then keep going on.
Once he moves his hands, I was like, all right, bet,
I'm just gonna I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try
to dip my shoulder and then he actually low key
when he hits my hands, he helps me out, helps
me out a little bit and usually make me fall
find a sea coming, but I kind of saw it
coming then I was able to just kind of move

(29:01):
my hand a little bit, dip and then kind of
reach my arm out and then I got him and
then hit I think, yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, And that's where your length again like shows
up there, like you take that just split second to
be like like you said, like, oh, your hands are
coming off bet, like let me go feel it and
you make that play there. This one's a nice one too,
not just from you, like the rest of the defense
really kind of breaking everything down around Kyler starting to compress.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Things a little bit.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Is it from a rush standpoint, not even just for you,
but for the defense. Is that still kind of like
the mo for for the defense, like compress the pocket
or do you think anything kind of changes stylistically, you
know over the years when you guys have been more
of like a compression style of rush in the pocket.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, I would say so.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
I'd say definitely just being able to just muddy up
the picture of the quarterbacks face by causing the mass
and kind of wreaking have it in the pocket and
not having it just be like a stand still or
you can just or he just sit back. Or even
if we are getting us pressure from the outside, you
still want to have some push in the face, pecially
when you go to meet some shorter quarterback like Kyler.
So being able to get the dudes closer closer to him,

(30:02):
like you see cams like he's right, cams right in
front of him. He's a big part of reason why
to play happen. He's right in front him. So that
makes it easy for everybody else.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
And the thing with your your long arm or your stab,
it's I feel like you catch tackles off guard a
little bit at times because you're very quick with it.
And so I'm wondering, are there, like, are there little
keys or factors you're looking for for the offensive tackle,
whether it was like the cold sky kind of doing
that circle punch making those hands disappear.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
Are there certain things you're looking for.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Like Okay, I need to shoot that long armor stab
now versus you know a different type of pass rush.

Speaker 6 (30:35):
Yeah, I'd say if any play, let's say like on
like a second down and long I rush and then
like I.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Don't feel like he really shot his hands or whatever.

Speaker 6 (30:45):
The next rush, like, yeah, I'm probably gonna I'm probably
gonna go some sort of like a long arm for
the long arm speed of power.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
He's he's playing past him, and he's.

Speaker 6 (30:53):
Playing exactly he's playing for me to throw double swipes,
and fore he can pull his hands back and kind
of push you by the quarterback. So I mean, on
on this one, I think I think seventy four was
he was relatively passive to get out of there pretty quick,
and he'd kind of open for him. It was kind
of I felt like he was oversetting a little bit.
See how he's like he got out pretty far, you know,
and there's some space in there, so I felt like,
whether it's inside move, But I hit him on and

(31:15):
moved the first third.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Down in the game.

Speaker 6 (31:17):
And then on this play, I just knew he was
I knew he was kind of turning his shoulders a
little bit too much. I knew I could, I knew
I can get my hand right right here inside pack
and kind of arm over.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
And it means Q we.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
Actually were trying to work a different game but ended
up just working out naturally.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Sometimes that it's how that happens on the fly, happens
like that.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, and this one, yeah, this one was is
a good example kind of what we were talking about,
juxtaposing it with the rep against the colts, Like usually
when you when they overset a little bit, if you
get that hand on that inside pack, you follow through
with that arm over and get inside And it's just
you did such a good job the first time we
had you on the show, I just wanted to have
you kind of talk about it again, like talk about

(31:55):
your hand placement and how important it is because it's
I feel like the hand and you know this, Eric
and I talk about it all the time, like use
of hands is so important to defensive linemen and the
battle between the D line and O line, and how
kind of mirrors what like corners and receivers have. But
it's not just about like punching your hand or just
throwing it. It's where you place it and the timing

(32:15):
of it and how that contributes to you having leverage
and being able to get through a.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Guy exactly that.

Speaker 6 (32:21):
Like like you said, if it's all about the hand placement, it's.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Like when you're doing the long arm or arm over
in that way and that clip right there. It's like
you don't want to tap your.

Speaker 6 (32:30):
Hand on the chest because if you have your hand
on the chest's like there's really nothing to grab. I
like getting my hand right here on the NSI pech
because you could literally grab like the breastplate, slash an
armfit area and you have something that actually like put
your put your put your force onto it and grab
with your hand if you have to. You have your
hand in the middle of somebody's chest, like you can
push them back a little bit, but at the same time,
it's hard to get off. And once you once you're

(32:51):
able to grab onto something, it's easy to transition and
hit that arm over. So for me, I know, if
I got a guy oversetting, I'm trying to get that
and get my hand and that.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Inside peck for sure.

Speaker 6 (33:00):
Every single time that whatever number it is, seventy four,
I'm trying to get my hand ye on that close
to that seven opposed to it being on the floor
or in the middle, because then you're kind of just
push them back.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
And this is why I love that placement for you,
because you're you're up the field, you're getting up the field,
you're threatening them and then you catch them off guard
with that quick long arm or stab, and where you
place it matters because now these guys again they're kicksliding,
you know, vertically up the feel a little bit and
then you're able to place it right there and you'd
easily get a nice inside lane here because you're able

(33:32):
of your placement there and you just wash wash them
by and you get that inside lane. So that placement
for you is great because you catch them off guard.
There's that element of surprise, but then there's also that
length and even there you have like a look, you
grab cloth a little bit, almost like a push pull
with that power the power move. Yeah, so that's why
I love that that move for you. And again I

(33:52):
think a lot of fans don't realize that you transition
there and and that you have you have developed those
transitions since you've been in the league.

Speaker 6 (34:00):
Absolutely absolutely different than just going speed to power and
just for us and being able to hit somebody with
a with a stab and then arm over.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
That's a that's a two part move.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
And speaking of a two part move, here's a play
versus the Titans. Second to last play I want you
to talk about again, the timing of the offensive tackles, punch,
the weight distribution kind of what we just alluded to,
and the move you used on this tackle here against
the Titan.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yea.

Speaker 6 (34:26):
So I felt like I felt like this guy wasn't
he wasn't too passive. You see, his shoulders were kind
of leaning forward, their profiles going forward a little bit.
But I felt like just his demeanor, his demeanor was
like almost like some tactically like I got to get
on him and I can't let him power me. So
it's like me seeing that like him about the He's
like he's like going back to it, looks a little
anxious and he's like he's about to kind of shoot me.

(34:47):
I'm almost going to power himause I feel like he
doesn't want me to power him, you know what I mean.
He's like coming at me. So for him, I was
like I knew I knew I was I knew I
was strong enough to.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Push him back.

Speaker 6 (34:55):
So for me, I made sure I got that hand
inside again because I knew at the end of the
play I would need that inside hand if I really
if I want to make a play and want to
be able to transition over. Because one thing is to
not to push along the way back is nothing to
be able to get off it. So right there, I
just I think he maybe moves my other hand out
the way, my outside hand, but that didn't matter because
I knew I just wanted to get to the depth
of Rudolph. Rudolph wasn't really running around too much, so

(35:17):
I knew if I can just get to the depth,
I can cover cover my outside lane and then it
come underneath you.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
In in this game, you had eleven pressures. It was
just like an onslaught from you when you're in that
kind of Yeah, it was a lot, but like this
just dominant wraps a lot of power when you're kind
of in the middle of a game like this. Is
is this one where like did you start to smell
blood because a lot.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Of it came against this right tackle.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Did you know like, oh I got him, or like
I'm in, I'm in, I'm in my bag, or I'm
in a certain sweet spot or he can't handle me.
Like did you did you smell or feel that blood
in the water and know that you had something going?

Speaker 6 (35:51):
Absolutely it was like I think it was the I
want to say the first quarter.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
I think if we were going that same way towards
the tunnel. Yeah. I think it was the first word.
Have had to rush on.

Speaker 6 (36:00):
Him, and it was like a meeting, not meaningless, but
like it was a normal third down.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
I think they completed.

Speaker 6 (36:04):
Maybe maybe it was like a check something like that. Yeah,
somebody that and I pushed him all the way back,
like I didn't. I didn't even get it hit, but
I got I got out. Yeah, And I was thinking,
I was like, all right, that's interesting. So I knew
as as a game noted Yeah, yeah, I noted that
putt and I knew. I was like, all right, I'm
coming back to at some point, I'm gonna I'm gonna
eat off that.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
So, I mean that was in the back of my
mind the whole game. I was waiting for that to happen.

Speaker 6 (36:28):
I ended up only having point five saxon game, but
I feel like that was my best game of the year.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, do you filled up the stat We and we
go all the time like talking about how valuable pressures
are and yet just from like a pressure standpoint, Yeah,
you had uh let's see the game, the game against
Detroit you had nine, but this one against Tennessee, yeah,
eleven pressures and it just felt like so I I
feel like nine or ten of them like came just
off that.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Against that right tackle, and you were just going him Like.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
Yeah, now, what'd you call this move? Because we see
it a lot again.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
You kind of laved with the long arm and stabbed
the inside hand, but you also have your left hand
that is very active. Do you have a specific name
for this. I know it's something you probably worked on
in the off season as well.

Speaker 6 (37:05):
Yeah, I mean when it's something the left hand, I
was just trying to hand check him with my left
so he doesn't really grab me. So yeah, I kind
of pushed that elbow down. I pushed the elbow down
for the inside. I knew, like I didn't need to
do anything fancy with my left hand and with his
right hand, but I knew I needed to kind of
break his contact so he doesn't have two hands on
me because the other hand, I'm just sticking my right
hand in there, so he might kind of grab my

(37:26):
shoulder path.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
But if I can move his left.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
Hand and I got two hands on him, he got
one hand on me, I know I'm gonna I know
I'm gonna win that.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
And then like we talked about with my right hand.

Speaker 6 (37:33):
I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking, get just being being
able to get my hand on the inside pack in
the arm over. And then another thing with this on
I say, is because of the way he's setting in
the in the he's not like he's coming out, always
coming out a little bit. The dude from the the
dude from the Jaguar, he was he was going back,
so I feel like he left me more face so

(37:55):
opposed to that rush. But a dude like this, he
always kind of in front of Rudolph by like two yards.
I can't just stick the stab in and go over
the top.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Exactly.

Speaker 6 (38:05):
I had, I feel like, exactly I had to push
him back first, so then the outside blade is open
for the quarterback and then going to me because he's
coming at me at a forty five and not just
going straight back vertical.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
It's beautiful. I feel bad for that tackle. Yeah, it
is what it is.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
Now.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
The last clip here is a similar move against the Cardinals.
Uh so walk us through this against a very good
right tackle and hear from the Cardinals early in the year, obviously,
but same type of thing right and obviously flattening to
the quarterback and making a big yeah.

Speaker 6 (38:38):
I said, yeah, same same type of thing right here.
I felt like he was also passive as well. The
way he was going back was it was kind of
out and then like I think you were out, and
then straight back again and then turn once he turned sideways,
So at first I was thinking to go outside, but
just the way he turned all the way side, I
was like, all right, I'm gonna push him back to
past Kyler and then come underneath the same way I

(38:59):
did the Jaguars.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
And then he was I feel like he was.

Speaker 6 (39:04):
Not to say it was easy to put him back,
but he didn't help himself because he got back so far.
He like he kept going backwards the whole rep. Even
before I make contact with him. See, he's still going backwards.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
He's trying to anger right stakes down and anchor versus you,
and he just makes his knees buckle.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
You've had you know, even just in these clips now
that we're showing, and you know kind of how you're
verbalizing the tackle sets and what you're doing in your
hand placement, the moves and plan and everything. One of
the one of the phrases that you used a bunch
when we had you on a couple of years ago,
kept talking like the difference between year one and year two,
and how you know, as you had gotten more experience,
you weren't drinking out of the fire hose as much

(39:42):
like you kept using that and you know where you
are now in your career. How much smaller has that
fire hose gotten for you now?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Because it just.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Seems like you're so purposeful in what you're doing. Obviously
you've got more experience, so it makes sense. But when
we spoke to you a couple of years ago, one
of the big things for us was just how smart
you were and how much you understood the game, And
so I just wanted to ask you now, Yeah, like,
how much smaller has that fire holes gotten for you
now that you've been in the league for a good
chunk of time.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
I say, it's gotten a lot. It's got a lot smaller.

Speaker 6 (40:10):
You know now, it's like a straw drinking have a smoothie,
you know what I'm saying. Opposed to fire Obviously, it's
still hard and I'm not I'm not where I want
to be at and I notice a way of my
game and girl and I get thrown some more different
rushes and curveballs in there and stuff. But just when
it comes to the simple, like there's the right way
to do things, the wrong way to do things. I
feel like I have a good, good mindset with that,
and I have a good idea of what I need

(40:32):
to do. And also the type player I am, I'm
not gonna I'm not going to be the guy who's
going to like throw double swipes and have ten pressures
in that way the whole entire game.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's just not your game.

Speaker 6 (40:39):
And I feel like a lot of times in the
league you see dudes with success and it's like it's
all about embracing girl and what you're good at and
how you.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Could excel and succeed.

Speaker 6 (40:48):
And when I thought a couple of years ago, I
didn't all I didn't all the way know that yet,
you know what I'm saying. I still trying some new things,
but I feel like I got kind of like a
foundation of word of how I want to play, and
then I could just kind of move off of that
throwing inside moves and maybe some more double flies, cross
shot here and there, whatever, some changeups. But I feel
like for me, it's it's it's aggressive, it's it's right
at you, and that's just that's just the way I play.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Some people might not like it, but I mean it
works for me, and you can't.

Speaker 6 (41:13):
You can't try to get outside the framework for your
body to be any type of different player that in
the player you are, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
And I think that it really speaks to the scheme
as well. I think you're a perfect fit for this
type of scheme for that reason. So the Bills are
retooling along the D line. They obviously added a big
name and Joey Bosa. So what type of things are
you studying maybe of his game, but more importantly guys
that maybe lined up opposite him, and how his impact
could not not just impact guys you know, next to him,

(41:42):
but across from him, like yourself, And like, what type
of things do you study or look for now that
he's added to the lineup?

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, yeah, well I'm seeing.

Speaker 6 (41:50):
I'm just seeing how could both of us maximize our
potential and make things hard for the for the.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Other online, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
And not just me, me and both of me and
me and whoever, whether it's Ed next to me or
me and Ed being on one side, both on another
and then online having to choose which way the slide through.
Just so, I mean, I haven't been able to watch
too much too much film yet, but I mean I'm
definitely gonna I know, maximizes for sure, just how I
could work off of work off and play with him.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
I feel like it's gonna be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
One of the things you talked about too the last
time you were here.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
We used it more from like a game perspective with
you and whatever, you know, defensive tackles inside you. But
you talked about you know, if you're running a game
with Ed versus running a game with Daikwan, you know
what they're what their get offs are like, and how
they're different, how they operate, how that changes your timing
and how you operate. What does that look like from
an edge to edge perspective? Do you have a similar
kind of approach or study with Like if if it's

(42:44):
you and Epanessa Russian, or if it was you and
Vaughn or in this case it's like you and Bosa.
Are you gonna watch tape on Bosa to see how
he kind of operates? Obviously, the play call flat factors
in as well. If you know what's going on on
the front side, if your backside you have contained so
on and so forth. But you also have that kind
of you know, kind of plan or or acknowledgement from

(43:04):
a relationship with the edge that's opposite of you in
terms of how you work together or how they like
to play.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Uh, yeah, I'd say so absolutely. I feel like a
lot of times with Vaughn, I'd go power and then
he go speed and we'll be working.

Speaker 6 (43:17):
We'd be going working high lows because that's kind of yeah,
that's his game and the power is kind.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Of my game.

Speaker 6 (43:22):
So I mean excited to see what it is after
being able to talk to Bosa, hopefully the experience side,
to see what we figure out and what we like.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
But I mean just things like that.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
I mean when you had that, when you had that
chemistry and you can build that and you could both
be on the same page. It's it's definitely a special thing,
and it's harder. It's harder than it loves because you'll
talk before player.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
We're gonna do a high low and then boom, the.

Speaker 6 (43:44):
Play call come in and there'll be a blitz. Well,
we both got to stay outside or we got to
come inside, and you're like, damn, and then the next
play might be it might be two minutes, so the
next play might be no huddle. So you're like rushing
to the wall and they completed the past for six
yards whatever it is, and you're like, all right now.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
You're just rushing.

Speaker 6 (43:58):
So it's like being able to build that chemist street
and maybe even come up with signals, signals quick things
that kind of just get things going. Having that chemistry.
I feel that's what training camps ota and training camps for.
So I mean, I know, I'm excited to get back
to it and I'm looking forward to a Rushtauran the
dude like him.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
One more question for me.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
You're we're talking about the impact of Bosa, But one
big narrative right now this offseason is the Bills retooling
the d line more so from a run defense standpoint,
adding you know good run defenders and mainly the fan
base is looking for a space eater up front and
nose tackle to go with Daikwon Jones. So having a
guy hypothetically that is in the three twenty three thirty

(44:35):
range to be more of that early down, first and
second down run defender. How does that does that change
your pass rush plan at all? When we're talking going
after the quarterback?

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Is it change my plan? I'd say, I say whenever
I say, I wouldn't say it changes it.

Speaker 6 (44:51):
But I feel like it would make it easier for
both edges because you see more more guards. The guard
might be on the center, might be blocking the one
and in the guards staying there for a little bit longer,
and maybe that's leaving inside the ball or maybe that's
leaving the tackle acceptable to losing in one on one
because he has to cover his one on one for
another half a sect half a second, which.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Goes a long way. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
Yeah, it's a lot easier when he when the garden
is touched real quick and to move out to the
d N then it's like he double. He doubled two
people on one player, you know what I'm saying, two
for one. So I feel like I feel like, yeah,
when you gotta do when you're pushing the pocket, it
opens up things for everybody.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Everybody be lying and it goes a long way.

Speaker 6 (45:27):
And uh, I feel like I feel like I feel
like we're gonna get back to that for sure, and
we've got times that we've done it.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
You know what I'm saying, I go back.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
I always go back to the first couple of games
twenty twenty three, Like with DQ in there, it was
it was crazy, you know what I'm saying. Everybody, everybody
was eating and everyone. Yeah, everybody's playing like an all
pro level.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
In fact, it's sad. It's sad. It pissed me off
that he ended up having that injury. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (45:51):
I'm glad he's working his way back from that and
he's playing some good ball to yah.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
He has a hard job. He's a hard job, yeah,
no doubt.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
And this just plays to the point we've been harping
the entire year, and it's not just about how big
the guy is. The three hundred and thirty pound guy,
you know the guy, especially talking nose tackle on Da
Kwon Jones. He's not the biggest guy, but he is
disruptive and that is really, as you said, more important
because you can there are many ways for a nose
tackle to win. Sometimes it's with explosive explosiveness and quickness
into that gap to make that guard, you know, stay

(46:20):
a little longer. Sometimes it's just a big guy that
is just disrupted from a power and strength for him.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6 (46:27):
Yeah, there's like you said, there's two of them, just
a dude who be getting that gap real fast, And
like you said, there's somebody like like people like like
Vita By or whatever who who just people just got
to honor that that's a that's a really big dude.
That's a strong dude, and you got to keep some
resources over there and it makes everybody around them better.
Same thing with a DN being able to attract double
teams from the guard and singling up the one tact

(46:50):
if the guard is just flying out there on certain occasions.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
So yeah, the timing of it from the inside aspect
that you just mentioned too is I think it's I
think it's an aspect that doesn't get noticed a lot
for fans. I think so many people normally think of like, oh, well,
like someone inside can create a true one on one
on the outside.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
And that's true.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
But even if it's just like you said, like just
that half a second where that guard just does he
have to stay helping the center just a little bit
before he can get out and help the tackle and
that half second can be a huge difference, especially when
like normally like QB dropbacks are like between two and
a half to three seconds.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
If you can add another half.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Or add another beat, especially for someone like you with
your length and ability to get to the quarterback like
that half a second.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yeah, it's the difference. It's the difference.

Speaker 6 (47:33):
It's the difference between a whole bunch of quarterback hits
it or a whole bunch of sacks, you know what
I mean. Or it's a difference between pressures and QB hits.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, especially when teams are trying to throw a quick
game matches. Yeah, all that jazz, Greg. We appreciate the
hell out of you taking the time. Yeah, you did
it a couple of years ago and we loved it.
You did it again now we loved it again, and
just yeah, you've been able to come on here, especially
for like we talked about offline, like for a guy

(48:01):
who's so I mean, everybody in the NFL is physically imposing,
but you know, for you with your length and your
power being able to see you come on here and
talk about like the science of the game and break
it down and be able to showcase your football IQ.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
And how smart you are.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
It's it's a tremendous treat for us, it's a tremendous
treat for our viewers and our listeners. And yeah, we
just appreciate the how do you take in the time,
and we wish you the best this offseason, this season,
you know, good luck spending all that cash that you got.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
You deserve it.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, thank you, appreciate you many.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
I appreciate you having me. It's always fun.

Speaker 6 (48:32):
It's always funny. I know what you'all talking about. Like
we said offline, I know you'all talking about all good ones.

Speaker 5 (48:37):
Thank you, brother.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
We appreciate it. Man.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
We'll be in touch and I'll be sure to get
you back in.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Here soon for sure. For sure, let's do it.

Speaker 5 (48:43):
Thanks brother. Thanks awesome stuff. Man, I love it.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
I love you know, talking talking x's and o's with
a guy like that. But again, he was pretty overall,
pretty raw coming into the league. Yeah, and we've been
able to study him closely. But also you'll get to
hear the development. You get to hear and him admit
his strengths, his weaknesses, things he can work on. But

(49:10):
over time we got to see it. You know, not
just on the film but also in the film room.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
And it was cool going back to and as I
mentioned it several times the episode, like, it was cool
going back and watching our episode with him in the
twenty twenty three offseason and seeing what he was saying
then versus what he was saying now, how he showed
up on tape then versus now, and just yeah, his
progression physically and on the field, and how he's executing,
but also mentally, how he sees the game, how he's

(49:35):
able to speak to the game, and how.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
That's just changed.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
And this is also what's exciting, And I think it's
part of the exciting part of the contract that he got.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
He's still on an upward trajectory.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I think he is, too, Like he's still as sending
he's made whether it's a pass rush or run defender.
He's made small to large improvements in almost every aspect
of his game year after year. Like you can legitimately
say that that trend could continue and he could continue
to get better.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
It's funny because when we had him on a few
years ago and just talking to him behind the scenes,
he admitted that, you know, early on, he's like you
know what I needed to be an elite to play
on the field a lot.

Speaker 5 (50:11):
I needed to be a good run defender. So he
like focused on.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
That and he became elite pretty quickly in that regard,
one of the best dns at setting the edge and
stopping the run. And then you start to see the incremental,
you know, changes and trends in the proper direction of
his pass rush game. And then now you got to
hear some of it and the details back when we
interviewed him in twenty three was you know, when they
bumped him inside a couple of times, that little things

(50:34):
about like hey, he's wearing a lighter jerks like that
type of stuff was cool to hear. But then now
you're seeing and what we wanted to show tonight was
how this scheme affects him as a run defender but
also as a pass rusher, and how there's a lot
of process in this scheme. It's not a scheme where
they just cut loose their dns. Those dns are critical
in the run and the pass game. And not only

(50:55):
are his physical measurables important to this scheme because of
what they do and ask of them, but it's it's
start you're starting to see the football IQ and that
acumen come out.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Yeah, and we we've seen it really with so many
of the guys you've had here. But you know, Daikon
Jones was another one when we had him in and
he's talking about, you know, recognizing him back in. Yeah,
he's a guy, should do that, just keep it rolling. Yeah,
it's been too long for d for dq it. And
he would talk about, you know, okay, on this play,
I'm talking you know, I recognize the formation in the alignment,
so I'm thinking this, and then the guard is doing this,

(51:24):
so I'm trying to get over the top to cut
this off. Like there's there's so much on the Bills
defensive line physically and mentally across the board because of
what we talked about a bit in this episode where
we talked about consistently too high safety structures, lighter boxes,
nickel defenses, like all of these things like add and
stack on one another, and you have a lot on

(51:44):
your plate pre snap, post snap, right on the snap,
and then you have to tie it all together physically
in the blink of an eye between like two to
three seconds. It's tremendously taxing to have to play in
this role, which is it And just to get back
you Rusau, which is why we've talked about why he
so valuable as a defender for this team, because he's
a force multiplier with what he can do just against

(52:06):
the run, but then with what he's been able to
do as a pass rusher. And it was cool to see, yeah, like,
like you said, being able to kind of give some
people a peek behind the curtain at how how difficult
that job is, because it's not easy.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
There's a lot of stress on these dns and front
really front six or seven depending on the down and distance.
You know, those four d linemen, those two linebackers there,
they see that light box a lot, and you see
Grussau and a lot of those advanced metrics as we
talked about earlier. He's up there with the best of them.
And again he's still coming along as a pass rusher,

(52:38):
but we're starting to see those transitions, we're starting to
see those counters. But he will never get away from
where he hangs his hat and that's his length, that's
that long arm, that's stab and winning first touch consistently.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, him being able to like you you touched on
when he was here, and like we touched on so much,
he's just such a good scheme fit for what they
want to do, who they want to be, and how
he operates. And yeah, you see statistically, you see from
an efficiency standpoint, you see from a volume standpoint, you
see it on the tape, and yeah, it was an
awesome time to be able to get him in here
again and be able.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
To chop it up once more.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Eric, anything else on your mind for the good people
before we say goodbye.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Well, if you enjoyed that sit down with Greg Russeau,
go back and watch Michael Hoyt's interview and break down.
We did some film with him as well. Obviously Torel
Bernard Man. You know, I'm still righting high on that
and the guy is just mentally on another level. Go
back and watch that again. These are fun I love
it because again, not many outlets or media types get

(53:38):
the access to the football side of things when it
comes to players, and so we see a lot of
the process and results oriented stuff that happens on the field,
but we don't often get to hear the why behind
it and the context behind it. And I hope that
not only the interviews, you know, prior weeks, but the
interview with Russeau really kind of highlights that. And as

(53:59):
of right now, we have Alec Anderson penciled in for
next week, so stay tuned for that. And I'm just
gonna I'm just gonna keep this ball wrong. I'm gonna
try to get as many as we can before you know,
this season starts, because I think this is so critical
for fans to see how smart these players actually are
and the amount of things that they have to process

(54:19):
regardless of what position they play.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Yeah, and it's an awesome treat for us to kind
of be able to give that to you folks, and
you guys be able to hear from the horse's mouth
directly and get that peek behind the curtain, and yeah,
it's it's awesome to see like a three course meal
served up in front of you, but it's also cool
to see how it's prepared at times and know what
the kitchen staff has to go through and how they
get to make that tremendous meal that you're about to consume.
So yeah, we hope you folks enjoyed this episode. If

(54:44):
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(55:05):
whatever audio platform you are listening to this show on
word of mouth, like we always talk about, is also
tremendously helpful.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
It's how you know. This is an organic, grassroots type
of brand.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
So a lot of the success early on and still
to this day is you know, somebody telling somebody else
about this episode from this channel or this guest or
this person or whoever. So if you enjoyed this ratings, likes, subscriptions,
all that kind of stuff, but also just good word
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(55:35):
it and we're tremendously thankful for it. We hope you
and your family and friends and loved ones are all
doing well and staying safe be kind to one another,
take care of one another. For myself, Anthony Prohaska, for
Eric Turner. This has been another episode of the Cover
one Film Room. We will see you when we see you. Godspeed,
and as always go Bills,

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