Poyer & Phillips sign, Hard Knocks & Pre-Season Takeaways | Film Room - The Film Room - Bills Breakdowns and Analysis

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:30):
What's Good. Folks, Welcome to another edition of the Cover
one Film Room, the show that gives you the hows
and the whys behind both the good and the bad
of the Buffalo Bills. I am one of your two hosts,
Anthony Parhaska, joined as always by Eric Turner and Eric
we're putting a bow on the preseason. We're discussing the
bills fifty three man roster and some announcements that were

(00:53):
made earlier today and last night. We're going to talk
a little hard knocks, fun episode planned for all the
people and and the final well, no, because we have
next week as well, but really like one of the
last few episodes before we get regular season ones on ones,
good on good, real live bullet football. Very exciting times

(01:15):
in this episode and in the future. But how you doing,
how you feeling? How's it going?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
We were talking prior to show, it's been a long week,
but then trying to prep for this episode, there were
multiple topics we wanted to cover in a short amount
of time, obviously, and then of course Bean did some
things to add to our plate, so much so that
when I got out of work at three, I sat

(01:39):
and watched film special Teams film of Sam Franklin, who
the Bill signed, who played for the Bill's Special Teams
coach in Carolina. I'm sitting there watching it in the
Discord channel, just like what am I doing with my life?
It's just so much stuff that we have to go
over today, including bringing on Sam Franklin. But man, I'm

(02:02):
excited to get some film. We're gonna get some film later,
Tyrrel Shavers, Ian Walker. I'm sure we'll pop on some
other players film just as the conversation goes. But excited
for this episode. But again, it's one of those episodes
we have a lot to unpack. So get comfortable, get
your drink, it's your dinner, and enjoy the film room
with us.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I get the idea of like, okay, like Monday is
kind of a dead news day, so people do things
like Tuesday Wednesday, and I know we do our show
on like Wednesdays, but man, I just feel like there's
always something that they just throw out there to throw
a curveball at us the last minute when we think
we're sad or we kind of have an idea. But yeah,
in a good way as always in Yeah, Eric, let's

(02:43):
lead off with I guess kind of the most well,
depending on how you look at it, the most recent news.
But the Bill's kind of circle in the wagons a
little bit with two former players in Jordan Poyer and
Jordan Phillips. Yeah, both Jordan's, both JP's is braindon Bean
talked about in his presser today something similar to you, like,
I finished work and I saw the pressers and I

(03:04):
was like, I can get to the brain of being one.
Let me listen to the brain of being one right
before we go here. You know Phillips's signing, even Poyer's
as well. I made joke posts about them on social
but I didn't realize how severe like the negativity would be.
I guess kind of for both from fans. I think
people saw each signing and thought like, they're gonna be

(03:24):
in the heavy rotation. They're gonna be like the on
the fifty three and on the depth chart. And as
you have qu'ed up, right here is the practice squad
signings from the Buffalo Bill's official site. And right here
on the practice squad signing, we have Jordan Phillips and
we have Jordan Poyer. So both of them going to
the veteran spots on the practice squad culture leadership character

(03:46):
as Brandon Bean referenced, And yeah, they both come back
to Buffalo, I guess for I mean Jordan Phillips, this
is what his like seventy fourth time coming back to
the Bills and Ployer, Yeah, returning after spending a year
in Miami last year.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, even the questions and their pressers, I think Ployer's
still going right now. But when Jordan Phillips, who was
at the presser, they're asking him, like what brought you
back to Buffalo, It's like go back to he your
notes the other five times that he was brought back right,
Like you know why he came back here, you know
why the culture everyone he knows the comfort like football

(04:19):
is football in Buffalo and that's all.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
You really got.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
The family, Like come on, guys, like that's just too easy.
But bringing both of those guys back makes a lot
of sense in this role. It's going to be an
adjustment for these guys because these are guys that were
at certain times, you know, big role players or foundational
pieces for this franchise as they you know, as the
Bills in this regime, you know, turn things around, became

(04:44):
that success story that they've had over the last few years.
It was funny because I was at I was at
football practice for my son yesterday and during practice I
get a text message saying, what have you heard about Poyer?
I'm like, I get home after tak because at dinner
and I get home, like.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
What do you know about Poyer?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
You know, like, why are you asking me?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
And so then I started asking around and then in
our discord channel, someone in our discord channel, I'm not
going to mention her name, but she said he Payer's
on a plane right now with like my friend or whatever,
and he took a picture of Poe.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
I'm like, oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
And then next thing you know, you know, those rumors
are flying, and then you hear that Poyer was signed
as well. And of course there was a freak out
for both of these signings. But look, take it easy, now,
calm down. Having this type of leadership experience in the
interior defensive line room and this room two areas that

(05:43):
we've covered almost every episode because of the lack of experience,
because of the growing pains, like all these things that
we've talked about all off season.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Adding these leaders in that role in those roles is
exciting for me.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I mean, just go back and watch the Hard Knocks
episode last night, right, and that where Max was called
out and asked, Hey, how would you say about Trey
White earlier? And he said, Tray still beats himself up
at practice, you know, as a veteran, and how he
can learn from that. Having veterans in each room really matters,

(06:20):
especially at these two positions.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I understood, and I not even understood. I understand
some of the uproar. I don't think based on the
play of either guy if you're sitting there thinking like,
oh my god, one of them has to start or
fill in, Like, I understand some of the trepidation in that.
But you know, again it's being said in the presser
and as you alluded to, you know, the culture standpoint,
the character standpoint, the leadership standpoint, and Jordan Poyer had

(06:45):
a very NFL standards, very long career here in Buffalo
and a successful one with what he and Michael Hyde helped,
you know, kind of revamp and change this defense a bit.
And I especially you know a guy like Poyer where
so much of the safety conversation we've had this offseason
has been like not having that interchangeability and versatility of

(07:05):
Hide and Poyer and now being kind of more siloed
a bit with Rap and Bishop, and to have a
guy now in the room like Jordan Poyer who you know,
his physical ability was something that was always understood, being
able to see it on tape, But it was the
mental side that really allowed him and kind of the
defense to take off a bit. He was one of
the and I mean this. I know people usually use
the word brain trust negatively or as like a backhead

(07:27):
and compliment, but he was a significant part of that
on field brain trust that allowed this defense to be
so good for years. So having him in the room,
having him and Taylor Rap in the room to help
develop Cole Bishop and help develop Jordan Hancock. You know,
I didn't watch a ton of Bishop tape from last year.
What I saw it Bishop Poyer tape from last year.
What I saw was an ideal. But I don't think

(07:48):
he's in line to start right now or see the
field as a lot of people were kind of oh
my god, you know he's going to start, or how
bad is our safety room practice squad? Get these guys
in the room similar, you know, conversation for you he's
got some miles on the tires, but some experience left.
These guys learn develop and simmer and learn from some
vets and take advantage of the practice squad veteran spot
designations and hopefully they help these young guys develop and

(08:11):
hopefully it's not more than that totally.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
So you know, both of those guys are relegated to
the practice squad. And there's some cool video from practice
today of player working on special teams is one thing,
but also working as the you know, basically the scout
team receiver. And you can see the Bills practicing some
motion and I'm sure it's motion that you're going to

(08:34):
see from the Ravens in week one and the defenders
that are having to adjust the motion and all that
good stuff that we love to break down here in
the film room. But it's obviously a different role for
these guys, especially Ployer he talked about in his presser
right before we went live. But aside from those two guys,
any of the names from the practice squad anyone stand
out to you, any surprises? What are your thoughts on

(08:56):
the overall collection of that unit.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I like it mainly because if I if I can
see the Bills continue to keep Frank or Junior, it
makes me happy, Like I'm happy that you know, he
came back. But I think a lot of the guys
kind of tick the box that we would look for
to come back. You know, I know a lot of
fans are happy for Jimmy Charlow, the big one, and
I know I don't want to take too much your
thunder because I know you'll probably speak about him. I'm

(09:19):
happy they got Keanta Jenkins back on the practice squad.
He flashed a bit during the preseason, and overall, I
like the mix. I don't think anyone's practice squad is
filled with studs. But I wanted them to get Frank
or Junior back, and I'm happy with that. I wanted
them to retain Charloe and Jenkins, and they did, even
Daikwon Hardy who's flashed a bit, and maybe even d
Dame Jackson, who maybe they need week one depending on

(09:41):
what happens to Trey White. But I think it's a
good mix of some young dudes, some veteran presence, the
positions they chose and how they attacked it. And then
I'm thinking, no, I don't think it's too crazy. That
Bouchelle made it over White given you know, they're his
standing and how well he played in that third game,
and they liked him a couple of years before when
he got back. So yeah, world, not too many surprises

(10:01):
for me.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I like obviously I like Jenkins the linebacker. I think
he just moves very fluidly, like the Bills like their
linebackers to move. And I think, you know, he played
a lot on in that like overhang type role and
again very Matt mullonald's style when it comes to being
fluid and Matt.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Mllonald's style in Tremaine Edmonds's number and dreads.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, yeah, exactly the best of both worlds, right right.
I think it was nice. I liked his preseason ups
and downs, but he was productive always around the ball.
And another guy that I started when I started prepping
for the show that I watched all of his film
from this preseason was Zion Loke the Nose Tackle. And

(10:46):
the reason was because there's a lot of that talk
about hey are they gonna cut Dwayne Carter, So I'm
like literally trying to watch all of their film and
kind of put him side by side and who played
nose to better and there was some really good film
on log.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
At nose tackle as a shade defensive tackle.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
You had a couple of nice double team stops I
think against the Bears, and I was like, oh, like
I perked up and I was like this, this is exciting.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
He's very good when those combination blocks come at him,
and Dane Carter struggle at times at doing that, but
obviously you know Carter's on the roster as well. Logan
to the practice squad. So again, the evolution of prepping
for Bill's content and during beans regime has been fun,
especially this week. But aside from that, I like the

(11:35):
mixture of young guys that they have already invested development
time in on top of guys that hey, if you
need to, you know, break glass in case of emergency,
you have them on top of the leadership. And again
it's gonna be it's cool to see how the practice
squad has evolved over the last few years and how
teams in general managers construct those those rosters to help

(12:00):
their team and their overall goal.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, you know, Brandon Bean had a cool comment today
that I guess I'd never really thought of, but kind
of mentioning like, you know, we don't have a minor
league or like a Triple A team where we can
send down guys. So and then combining that with the
practice squad changes after COVID and the veteran spots and
what you could do. I thought you just had some
really spot on points with how teams and maybe it

(12:24):
might be just from the Bills perspective, but an insight
into again like how teams look to use that practice
squad and how you fill it and it doesn't have
to just be guys, you know with under two years,
and now you can have add veterans and it is
that mix of young guys that might need some more
seasoning in terms of development, that you want to keep around.
But now you also have, yeah, that break glass in
case of emergency one, two, three guys up to six

(12:47):
veterans you can have on the practice squad. So it's
an interesting mix and I think the Bills took advantage
of that mix again while circling the wagons a bit
no pun intended there with you know, adding to the
culture and the leadership and guys who know this system
and everything.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Speaking of circling the wagons, I don't think they're done
there yet, guys teaser, I don't think they're done there.
I do think there's at least one more move on
the horizon.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Somebody's could be so mad.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
You keep an eye out for that. Just keep your
head on his for that.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
As we transition to Hard Knock takeaways. So episode was
last night, Tuesday night.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, I was kind of bummed.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
I thought we were gonna get some kind of like, hey,
you made the team Tyrell Shaver's video.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I know that was like the big thing, but you
annoy you too.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
A lot of the guys they focused on were all
guys who didn't make the team. I know that annoyed
the hell out of me, Like it made you watching it.
I felt so terrible because.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Frank or Jimmy Charlow.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Even going with like with Connor or not kind of
Rogers for yeah, for his dog stuff, and I'm like
all the like it literally was like every guy, Zach Davidson,
every guy they focused on other than like Alan and
the QB stuff. I was just like, is this a
joke or you doing this ironically? Like literally every person
they spent time on did not the roster.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, it was interesting when it comes to that perspective.
But I think overall they've done through the first four
episodes and now they've done a good job of storytelling.
Just watching the kinematic sequencing segment with Josh, obviously that
hits home very close for me. I've put in way

(14:29):
too much time in hours in film of watching Josh
during that moment of development, oh, you know, from when
he was drafted to twenty nineteen, twenty twenty and seeing
that transformation. So hearing them go through that and analyzing
him that's that was that was really cool and just
overall Josh and you can just see how much more

(14:51):
comfortable he is in his skin, how he actually looks
really trim and in good shape.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He used to be a lot thicker.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
You know, and I think the last couple ye he's
gotten trimmed down and in good shape. He seems very
nimble and light on his feet when you're watching some
of those sequences and just playing free, and I think
that's part of the reason why he won the MVP
last year. He's just got He's in a different state
of mind when it comes to his home life, when
it comes to on the field, when it comes to

(15:20):
his craft, and you saw it in that segment when
they were talking about how far he's come in his
development as a passer.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, probably my favorite segment of last night's episode, just
seeing all the the behind the scenes stuff, like all
the camera work, the computer stuff, the presentation skills, like
how Chris has maps everything and the data and translates it.
Even him in the room talking with Trubisky and like
quantifying his change on that graph and then he was like.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
When his foot is hitting the ground and his hips
are openings wild.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
And he was like, did you work on anything you
know this offseason because he noted. He was like, you've
changed significally, and Trubisky was like yeah, and he was like,
well it's great, like keep this up. Yeah, oh oh yeah,
yeah yeah definitely right, yeah, yeah, of course I've been
doing that. Yeah, all the slow most sequence. I'm a
sucker for like the slow most sequences that show rotation.
And I love that, And I loved even like the

(16:17):
little the piece that was like kind of funny, but
it was serious. Alan talking about his golf swing and
then has going over his golf swing with him. We
talked about it all the time. You know, quarterbacks are
rotational athletes and like golf swing baseball swings similar to
throwing the football. It's all about that energy transfer, that
weight transfer has to even said it in last night's episode,

(16:38):
like taking that power from the ground and putting it
up through your body and flowing through. I just thought
it was so on the nose because I feel like
golf swings and baseball swings are the best examples of
like rotational athletes. And then yeah, and transitioning that to
the quarterback conversation, and it was cool too as well.
You know those times when you were breaking down Alan's
mechanics is back when I was a fan of the

(17:00):
brand and not on it, and I remember that going
in and you're doing that in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty,
and then to see where it's all come full circle,
it was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, it was a lot of work back then, and
it was one of like it was probably when it
comes to projects I pick up in the off season,
it was the without a doubt, the most in depth
project I've done. And you know when it comes to
resources and references and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
So they showed me a bit last night too, like the
even just those little clips like you can you watch
one throw from like each of those early years to now,
you can see how much arm based he was. How
like I'm disjointed.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yes, it was like getting he was his body was
pulling in different directions and not working together. Jase, you
make a great point here, he says. It also seems
like he is more comfortable being Brady esque. The way
to tell his players I need you to be here
quiz is wide receivers about their route, trimming down focused.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
I agree that is totally true.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
He us he runs this show and what he says
ghost we talked about a few weeks ago. There's a
certain level of comfort and I'd say demanding, you know
better of his players and saying, hey, I'm telling you
to be here. If you want the ball, get there
and you'll get the ball type you know, basically just

(18:12):
there's no no, no one challenging him. He's telling them
how things are done. And I think there, you know
that is obviously that comes with time over the last
few years and really no one to challenge him.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
If that's that, I would say that, and that being
a huge point, like there is there's some good players
on this team, but you know, and even for as
much of the conversation, I feel like people have talked
in a negative way about it's like Allen and then
just kind of this mediocre supporting cast on offense, even
though the offensive line is tremendous and it's much more
than mediocre. I think tying into that in a positive way,

(18:44):
because there is no like outward star in the traditional sense,
I think it makes it even easier for Allen to
just be the de facto alpha leader whatever verbid you
want to use, and there is no one to kind
of push back because everyone is more role player based
than superstar based, and then their personality and being brought
in is all about doing your one eleventh funneling in

(19:06):
and everything funnels up.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
To Josh, funnels up to Josh. When they break the hut,
when they break meetings, what does McDermott have them.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Say seventeen close them down or whatever?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
He says, Yeah, no's they clapped Josh Allen. It's literally
ingrained in them, and so that's what they want. They
want Josh to be the centerpiece, which he is obviously,
but he is the He's the top of the food
chain when it comes to this team. And aside from
Josh McDermott. I thought the cool part in the Hard

(19:37):
Knocks astory was when he was at the table just
sitting and talking to Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter and
just how I just I love McDermott as a leader,
and you can tell that when he gets around greatness,
regardless of sport or occupation, when he gets around greatness,
he's a sponge. He'll ask questions, he'll sit there and

(19:57):
talk to them for length a long amount of time.
And it just felt like he was doing that in
that moment with McGrady and Carter, just sitting listening, trying
to pick up anything for a coach, because you get
think about he's been coaching for a lot of years.
Sometimes your message can get old. So you got to
pick you know, picked up new pieces and new sayings

(20:18):
and learn things from others from greatness so that you
could pass it on to your players and so that
that message doesn't get stale.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, it's so easy. The stale is such a great
way to put it. Like, it's so easy for the
message to get stale, especially when even if you've won
a bunch, but especially when you've gotten close and have
like continued to fail or not win, that it's easy
to kind of, yeah, see guys fall off or you know, yeah,
tune them out or go one in year and out
the other. And yeah, I like those little details. I

(20:48):
especially as a little kid who loved I mean growing
up in Buffalo and like the Raptors were right here
in Toronto, and I'm a Carolina guy. I loved Vince Carter.
And then McGrady was on the Raptors and they shipp
him out. Yeah, conversation for another time. I guess of
my child's small childhood heart breaks for me in sports.
But I like both of their like anecdotes were cool,
you know, Vince Carter talking about how refs in the
NBA treated young guys and then mcgrady's little nugget I

(21:10):
love that. McDermott asked, I'm paraphrasing it, but like, do
you think leadership needs to come from the Yeah, And
McGrady came out and was like, it can come from
a coach, like anybody who's in that leadership position. And
he was like, and sometimes your leader doesn't necessarily have
to be your best player on the team. And he
also gave an example of you know, Tim Duncan being

(21:31):
a Hall of Famer arguably like one of the best
power forwards of all time. But it was really quiet,
didn't say anything, but he led with his preparation and
he led with his play. And yeah, I think those
we always see like at events, like cameras catch like
players or former athletes like talking to one another. I
love these moments of hard knocks are so cool because
these are you have two tremendous basketball players talking with

(21:53):
a really good football coach and they're they're chopping it
up and sharing the athletic conversation translates, leadership translates. It's
the hard work and the preparation translates across sports, and
it's cool to see guys have those connection pieces and talk.
And yeah, it wasn't I feel like some people may
have felt like, oh, this is stage they know, Like
I feel like McDermott wanted this and it was a

(22:15):
real conversation. It was cool. I wish I would take
like a full episode just of those kind of conversations
and that type of soaking up. That was cool.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And we've seen different cuts of him at Penn State
wrestling practice. We've seen him do this with other teams,
baseball games, baseball players, like he just has Like I said,
he I don't think he's he hasn't stopped growing, and
I think we see that each and every year. And
I think that was just one of those moments where
he was just asking questions, being a sponge, getting true

(22:44):
input from greatness.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
And I also loved how when he was I.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Think it was like at the end of one of
their meetings, he was just showing his gratitude to the
players and how, yes, you know football is your life,
and you know this is your job, this is your
but at the same time, this is.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Not going to define you.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
And it almost looked like he was choking up when
he was gonna when he was saying this, because you
could just sense the gratitude and thankfulness that he had
for his players and how much work they put in
this offseason, this preseason with what is about to happen
hours later, you know, or maybe even a day later
based on when they recorded it, cut down day roster transactions,

(23:26):
and some difficult conversations that he and Brandon Bean would
have to have with some of these players face to
face as they released or you know, cut them.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, those are always the most uncomfortable moments whenever. Like,
I mean, they didn't really show them much for the
bills here, but I hated those parts of hard knocks.
When the guys would come in. We talked about it.
You know, a couple of weeks ago, you'd get the
equipment guy who knocks on someone's door and tells them
they got to go see coach and bring your playbook.
Like and especially for someone like Sean McDermott, who is
an emotional guy and cares about every player from one

(23:57):
to fifty three or one to ninety in the offseason,
you know, that's a hard time for him to kind
of have to cut ties with guys. And yeah, it's
cool to see the human aspect and the people management
and leadership that he brings, which is a huge part
of what's turned this franchise around under his stewardship.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
We gotta stop the show. Brades drops a super chat
to us. Thank you, Brad, we appreciate it. He says,
A little surprise. More made to fifty three very rarely
stood out. Do you think there's more on tap for
when he's actually playing with Josh or is it because
there's too much money tied up in him like Samuel.
So my thought on More is, you have to watch

(24:36):
all the tape, okay, because even though even though he
wasn't getting a lot of targets, a lot of receptions,
a lot of anything, there were so many routes where
he was routing dudes.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Up that bears one on the play action where he
sinks the hips and pops back out he sells the over.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
And the pass was batted down right yep at the
line Mike White. There were so many of those routes
where he was getting open and maybe he wasn't the
primary maybe he's like the second or third read and
the passes batted down, he gets open and the quarterbacks
pressure he has to move on dump it down to
a running back. There were so many routes where they
were just half a click off of getting the ball

(25:13):
to him or the quarterback getting his eyes to him
to get the ball to him. And so I still
think there is some timing and rhythm that is probably
needs to be ironed out. But from everyone that went
to the Bear scrimmage against them, they said that More
played really well. So for me, we can only go
off with the preseason film that we have, and there

(25:35):
were just so many routes where they're just half a clickoff,
and I think once they get in rhythm, once he
gets on the same page with Josh, I do think
that he'll become more involved, especially when you're talking like
manufacturer touches and you have the starting offensive line and
you have other wide receivers that can create an impact
or lift the top off the defense, so that he

(25:57):
can work where he's good at. I think we had
I think we haven't seen the best of Elijah Moore
in the Bill's offense.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, I second that notion completely. It was actually super
annoying because I feel like of several of the targets
he had in the preseason, you know it was he
had like a couple of drops, and then some things
didn't look good and then you're not seeing the raw stats,
and I feel like it put into a lot of
people's minds like, oh, he's having a horrible preseason. But
exactly like you said, and I'm not gonna, you know,
bang that drum too much more because you hit it

(26:24):
on the head like or too much more. No pun intended.
He had some really nice routes and some separation moments
that I don't think are going to get covered by
most people because it was you know, the pass was
batted down or it wasn't in you know, the initial
part of the progression or the read, and so nobody's
noticing it or carrying it. Granted, we come through every
single aspect of the film, and that's why we do
it for moments like this, so we can just can

(26:46):
speak on something like that. And yeah, I think he
offers a nice piece in his wide receiver room. And
also maybe if Khalil Shakir's high ankle sprain is you know,
ailing him a little bit and he's not one hundred
percent for the first couple of weeks you have, but
he had more more exactly, and then more also and
then when secure comes back more can still do inside
but also outside stuff and you can move over him

(27:08):
a bit. So I think it's ahead your bet. But
also a guy who I don't think the you know,
the broadcast and the ross stats showed some of the
nice plays that he made this preseason, albeit not very
productive in this offense.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
All right, all right, so he obviously made the roster.
We're gonna get to some more guys that did as well.
I want to talk about some of the decisions and
some of the moves. We talked about Dan Jackson being
put on the practice squad again a pretty good in
case of emergency type player. But what does that mean
for Trey White? I know Brandon Bean was asked today

(27:43):
at the presser on his status Trey White for week one,
and they they obviously give you that.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
He was super forthcoming. He showed the MRI results and everything. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
He put it right up on the on the backboard
there and just say hey, everyone, look, this is this
is what happened to Tray. He'll be ready like twenty
seven hours. No, of course not. He wasn't upright, wasn't
upfront about that. But what does that mean for the roster?
If he's not available for week one? What are they
gonna do? Do they call up Dane? Like? What what
do you think they should do? If Trey can't make

(28:15):
Week one against the Ravens.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think they call up Dane, and I think it's
I think there's a even though he didn't look great
this preseason, knowing how much they place on reliability and responsibility,
I could see them calling up Dane and starting Dane
what I would personally like to see and hope. I
like the idea of JaMarcus Ingram starting, especially in Week
one against Baltimore. You know they're gonna run the football.

(28:39):
You know how important that aspect is to their team.
JaMarcus Ingram is good in run support, both in terms
of like a you know, a forced player or fitter,
but also as like a tackler. He's good again, you know,
coming up and making plays on like those little bubbles
in screens. He's shown some coverage chops over the years,
inside and outside in addition to just you know not
he he kind of moved past just being physical, goal

(29:00):
and scrappy and nasty, and he started to show some
coverage shops a little bit. I don't think he's some
all pro corner that's waiting in the wings. I do
think there are some potential vulnerabilities you will have from
a coverage standpoint, but knowing what he brings against the run,
knowing the physical element he brings, his ability to play
some press or it's comfortable comfortability in that aspect, and
the inside outside pc he brings he can blitz. I

(29:22):
would like to see him as the starter in week
one if Trey is unable.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
To go, Yeah, I mean, I think either of those two,
if they play, I think they'll be all right. Especially
when you're talking about who the Bills are playing and
how typically that team likes to attack the Bills defense.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
It is gonna be one of.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Those, you know, a slobbery knocker type games where they're
gonna try to come downhill at the Bill. So you
gotta have corners like Dan Jackson or Ingram for that matter,
that can come up and make those tackles. Play with
that physical mentality, play with that again, that mentality that
it's gonna be a dogfight. It just it always is,
and Week one is always wonky. And I just I

(30:01):
like Ingram. I've loved his development. I think he does
a good job on special teams, and I'm not surprised that,
you know, he obviously made the roster. He he's a
guy that can do a little bit of everything, and
when it comes to being a dime in the dime defense,
he can jump in there at several of the positions.
So it'll be interesting to see where Trey White is.

(30:23):
Last I heard, and this is I haven't even circled
back because there's so many other things going on. When
when it came to his injury, I was told it
was more of a groin issue. Then Brandon Bean came
out two days later and said it was lower lower leg.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Regardless, he's gonna play this season if he doesn't play
in Week one, I don't think it's the worst thing
for this defense, considering the matchup and the two guys
that they can put in there to again come up
make some reliable tackles on a team that loves to
run the ball.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, that's exactly it. Now. I don't love the idea of,
you know, if say Flowers get it matched up bunch
of Marcus Ingram, we have to, you know, figure some
things out there. But yeah, given the matchup, given the
early spot in the year, Yeah, I think you can
kind of make a case for either guy. And I
just I don't know, Maybe I'm just playing from a
non X as an O standpoint, but I think he
fits from an next as an O standpoint. And you know,

(31:16):
Baltimore wants to come in and punch you in the mouth,
So get you a dude who wants to punch someone
else in the mouth, Like imagine fitting the run in
week one when your corners are Benford and Ingram, Like,
who's getting outside on that? Like nobody's getting outside on
you on that?

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, right, exactly, all right.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
So one guy who has really earned his stripes and
his due his dudes, Tyrrel Shaver's wide receiver, happy for him.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Great story.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
He left it all out there this preseason twenty point
five yards per reception, single touchdown, two point eight yards
per route run.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
I thought he did a great.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Job of regardless of what quarterback was in uncovering, being
QB friendly, creating some splash plays and some big moments.
Any opportunity that was throwing his way, he capitalized for
the most part, aside from, you know, against some early
struggles early on it was it last game or the
bearst game, this.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
The Bucks game. He dropped the first one it came
his way, and then he double caught the one where
Bruschelle scrambled out.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
But overall, man, I thought he was great, and we're
gonna start off with a bang in the film room here.
We're gonna start off with his big catch against the
Bucks and just the the body control from him, the
bottoming screen and his ability to track the ball, not
make too many like drastic movements as the ball is

(32:38):
dropping in as he's being contacted, so that he could
make that one handed catch along the boundary. Just a
difficult catch that he made look so easy against the Bucks.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
This it was cool throughout the preseason that we saw
different moments of him, you know, showing his size, showing
his frame, showing his athleticism, some of the long speed.
This one is just really nice showing that size, showing
the frame. He's fending off the corner with his inside arm.
They're battling, jostling a little bit, and then he essentially

(33:10):
extends around the corner and just oh, like that, I'm
getting lost, like purely in the film of it, Like
that's such a and it wasn't like a he one
handed it and bobbled it or he caught it with
his wrist and brought it in like he It was
so silky smooth the way he brought it in. And
then he gets the knee down, the feet down as well,

(33:30):
Like that's just such a the hand eye coordination. Look
at his ball that the eyes are right on the
ball and Bang reaches out. I like that he's wearing
white gloves. It shows to catch easier against the ball.
There even a good ball from Bouchelle putting it out.
But look at look at the stride, the length that's
being big, at the catch point that's having size and
frame and athleticism. It's It was one of the best

(33:52):
plays of the entire preseason, not just for the Bills,
like across the entire NFL. That play was tremendous.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I want to talk about his releases, though not just
in the ball.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I love this one. This one is one of my
favorite reps. And it's so small.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
This is why I said for weeks that he's got
a lot of the Kean Coleman type traits when it
comes to obviously his size and everything like that. But
he is the solo wide receiver top of the screen,
and you have to be able to run several types
of routes from that position, and he makes so many
of them look the same. Watch the release again. He

(34:25):
can release inside or outside based on how he sets
it up. Releases outside. Okay, now the corn is thinking
it's a fade, it's a go ball, it's a nine, right,
But then Boom drops those hips, snaps it off. Balls
there and he's able to catch it there for several yards.
I've been super impressed with his development when it comes
to his releases and making these routes look similar until

(34:47):
they're not.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of efficiency in his releases. There's
not a lot of wasted movement, extra stutters or steps
or hand usage. A lot of times it's one or
two steps in bang and Yeah, I'm not going to
drag this one on too much, even though I love it.
You hit it like he sells vertical and he snaps
it off, and I like the timing of the stem.
Right as the corner starts to turn and run and

(35:11):
open it up. That's when he snaps it off, runs
him by, and that's some good hip sync. That's some
good bend for a taller dude and a bigger dude.
He separates with deception. That's a really good play right there,
and he catches a ball that's a bit off frame.
That was one of It's so small, but that was one
of my favorite plays of the entire preseason for him.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Similar thing here, backside of a three by one formation.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
He's the X. He's on the line of scrimmage. Sim
looks very similar here. But then what does he do
staggered stance top of this brake boom snaps it inside
and it's very like you said, very fluid, very sharp.
Look how he drops his hips to make this cut.
You see a little drag right here by the left
foot to slow him down so he can make that

(35:53):
cut that much sharper, and then right behind the linebacker.
Very nice route by him and really by him. But
it looks so similar through that first like stage of
the release. It looks so similar to every other route
he runs.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, you could literally put these side by side. And
if you are, if you're this Giants corner, you and
you're watching the Bucks game, say the Bucks game happened before,
you might think, okay, like that's that release. He's going
outside and now he set you up and he banged
it inside. Or maybe you know that Bucks corner was
watching this film from early on and thought like, okay,
like he's gonna end up stabbing back inside and Shavers

(36:30):
sold it upfield. That's nice, especially when you're in that
position where you're outside the numbers, working towards the boundary.
If you do outside release, it's likely you know defenders
know it's likely going to be in you know, a
nine or some kind of hitch or stop route coming back.
Your route tree is limited. Being able to still operate
with deception, create some two way gos for yourself or
and or just be efficient in your movement and deception

(36:53):
to create separation is so important. And he did a
really good job about this preseason, and this one, like,
how efficient is this? It's just a little stagger and
then Goodbye just strides it out and runs right by him.
Another real night one.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Sneaky quick man, sneaky quick here bomba's screen, similar type
release and just look how right there it looks just
the same and then boom left foot down, accelerates of
the field and as this corner is trying to open up,
he shavers just takes off and he's got so much
separation that corner is out of phase, but they're not

(37:25):
able to connect on that play. His releases have really
impressed me, and his development has impressed me in this regard,
and it's got to be a major reason why he
was not only productive this preseason, but he was able
to make the roster and show that he does belong
in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
And then you're talking about this level of you know,
technical ability being towards you know, quote unquote like the
bottom of your depth chart, and a guy who can
also play special teams, Like there's just a lot of value,
and you're talking about him potentially as like a long
term guy, like maybe he you know, scratches some of
that ceiling little bit that he had as a prospect
coming out and if you can tap into that. I was.

(38:04):
I was sincerely impressed. It wasn't just like, oh, we've
gotten the not us, but how fans have gotten in
the past several years, like Andy Isabella makes a catch
and oh my god, dude, this dude needs to be
like wide receiver too. He's so great and all the
all the other guys that have gotten hyped in that regard.
I thought the hype was warranted for Shavers because of
the technical ability and prowess that he showed and doing

(38:25):
that in a package that has some size and some
frame and some athleticism and long speed, Like that's that's
a nice dude to have at the bottom of your
depth chart. And he plays special teams. Eddie's good on
special teams. It just seems easy. There was no way
they could leave him off the roster and he won
thousand percent earned it with his play this year. It
was cool to see.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
So, who are some other guys that maybe impressed you
in the Bucks game or just in preseason overall, aside
from you know, the guys we're gonna watch some film on,
is there anyone else that you want to give like
an honorable mention to this preseason? Again, what it could
be even just in the Bucks game, but overall, some
guys that you know again get that honorable mention, you know, just.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Because I think we talked about this person with how
we played against the Bears. I think it was a
little quieter against the Giants and a little quieter against
the Bucks. But I thought Landon Jackson had some nice
moments this preseason. Actually even had a nice rep where
he almost got to Trask as Ogunjobi was driving the
guard into trash face, and that was a nice rep.

(39:28):
It was a completion to Palmer. I think Trey Palmer
on like a second or third down.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
But was he ripping through Yes, yes, he.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Got into the chest of the left tackle, got created
that half man, ripped right through that outside shoulder. Jackson
also had a nice stop towards the low red zone
where he goes through the tight end number forty one
and then uses one arm to kind of reach around
and grab the running back and hold him at the
goal line, and Walker comes free and helps bury him

(39:55):
and it creates a stop. I thought Jackson had some
kind of sneaky flashes in the game against the Bucks,
more pronounced ones in the Bears game that we talked about.
He's someone who I really just have my eye on
because I think they need edge production this year. He's
a potential Keykag of the future, knowing that aj Epanessa

(40:15):
is a UFA and Bosa's UFA next year. And also because,
like I've talked about on the show, like I don't
like guys like him because of how he's built. So
every week it's a watch for me with a lot
of intent. And I thought, he know he's had some
good production. I say that as a person who didn't
love his body type. I thought the third round value
was cool, but I traditionally stay away from guys like that,

(40:37):
So I feel like he had a productive preseason. I'm
happy with kind of where he's at.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
This is where I'd go, Jason, you make a great point.
He says, I was actually impressed by Bouschelle. He plays
quarterback like a point guard, just gets the ball in
the people's hands. Good for a backup QB. Impressive. He
made the practice squad overweight. If White would have signed,
I agree, and I said that on turf the tape,
I thought in the game against the Bucks, he did
such a great job of just distributing, getting the ball out,

(41:03):
getting the ball out to guys like Shavers and Wilkinson,
guys trying to put on tape a good tape for
that matter, and he just distributed to those guys, let
them do their job to make their case for the
roster or the.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Complete complete ownership of the offense. From start to finish,
he looked palm poised, comfortable. He made some plays out
of structure, but also was on time in rhythm going
through his progressions. He played phenomenally.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, he did you know whether it was an extra rusher,
a free rusher. He knew where his outlets were. He
called all the alerts like he saw pressure coming when
I don't know how he saw pressure coming and just
dropping it to a tight end or dropping it to
a running back on that Mesh rail to get the
first down, like he was just in total control of

(41:49):
the offense. And you know, he played the entire game,
which says something for because I don't think he's played
I think Sale was saying he hasn't played an entire
game in the NFL, so that was basically his first one,
which is why he got kind of emotional after game.
So yeah, I think Shane Bouchelle did a great job
in that game, in this preseason overall for that matter.
But we want to talk about the future. We want

(42:11):
to talk about the D line, of course, because that
was probably if I could take anything away from this preseason,
I'd say I focused in on the D line more
than anything else, and rightfully so. There were a lot
of new pieces and a lot of new parts and toys,
and we're trying to see how they're gonna mesh and
the game plan was so like in these games there

(42:34):
were so vanilla almost non existent that you just got
to see raw skill, raw talent or lack thereof. And
there were several guys that stood out. We're gonna talk
about Dean Walker TJ. Sanders, but I just love the
future of those two guys. And the Bills interior defensive
line to start because of those two guys. And I
think in this game against the Bucks, I don't think

(42:55):
Sanders had as many flashes as Walker. I think overall
both very close when we're talking the entire preseason. But
I want to get your thoughts on Sanders so far.
You know, we have several reps from these preseason games
from Sanders. What are your takes so far? How does
it hold up against what you thought you saw on
film when he was in college.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah. I liked what we saw from TJ. Sanders this preseason,
you know, starting from the pass rush aspect and kind
of tying that into your question there, he he translated
well to the NFL game. With what we saw at
South Carolina. We talked about his hand usage and his quickness,
especially laterally to go from gap to gap and be effective,

(43:36):
and we saw that in spades this preseason. We saw
him beat guys within like a quarter of a second
off the line. We saw him cross multiple gaps and
be able to use his core strength and power flu
and power through I should say, and flatten to the quarterback. Well,
that's a good way to shorten that in so to
saying power through and flatt and I could just say
power flu that kind of works. I liked what he did.

(43:57):
You know, we showed some of the run struggles for
him and Dian Walker the previous week against the Bears,
But like we talked about, I think that's kind of
what you have to live with with them at this
stage in their career, and you just hope that the
positive flashes can outweigh that. And I know a lot
of people are talking about Walker because of how big
the flashes were in again, he's a very big man,

(44:18):
so they stand out more. But I thought Sanders had
a really consistent preseason. I'll say this, especially if we're
kind of juxtaposing them, which I hate doing because it
makes it seem like ones bad and one's good. I
think Sanders had some very strong positive flashes like Walker,
and I also don't think he had, but I don't
think he had like the low lows that necessarily Walker

(44:40):
may have had in moments. But yeah, I'm very encouraged
by Sanders. Granted, we liked him a lot coming out,
so it didn't take a lot for me to get
on the bandwagon.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, I feel that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I think I responded to Dan Fates's question about that
or his comment about Walker just making it and flashing
the most, and I won't disagree there. I do think,
like you said, Sanders had an equal amount and fair
amount of those flashes and highs, but like you said,
not as strong, not as many lows when it comes

(45:11):
to that. And I think that's what I expected from
t J. Sanders versus Walker when we're comparing the two,
I expect t J. Sanders to play more consistently at
a high level for a longer amount of time. I
think you're gonna have some lapses from Dean Walker. Now
what's great is that he's not gonna have to start,
so then you're gonna be putting him in there in

(45:33):
a reserve role. After the offensive line is faced at
Harvard and Daikwon Jones and others, and then here comes
Dean Walker on a third down in a wide alignment
and the offensive line like this isn't fair and so
and I think also Walker had some advantageous matchups inside
against some centers and guards that probably I don't even

(45:53):
know if they made the roster. I will say that
I don't want to take anything away from him. We're gonna,
we're gonna, we're gonna break down enough of his film.
We need to frame it a little bit before we
get to that. But I do think there's a lower
floor with Walker, but the ceiling is sky high for
the guy with his size, length, explosive, violent power, and

(46:15):
his ability to work his feet around his hands like
you're gonna see on some of this film.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
The dudes.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
He could be very special Anthony if he again just
takes the coaching, stays healthy, and just bides his time
behind Daiquon and soaks up everything that Ed Oliver and
Daquon have to tell him.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, and you know, that's a lot of what we
talked about when he was drafted. It was that variance, right,
Like he could end up being a huge steal and
a stud or he could be towards the lower part
of that floor aspect, because again it's the health and
the weight, and the health and the weight tying into
the back, and then that's also tying into getting better

(46:56):
in his technique with his hand usage, playing to his length,
all these pieces. But I think he had a good preseason.
It was cool to see him correct a lot of
the things that we talked about last week and change
in this game against the Buccaneers, and it's understandable why
so many folks are excited to see him suit up
in the regular season, but there are still some questions

(47:16):
that hopefully we get answered.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, so we're gonna take a look a bunch of
his clips from the entire preseason that kind of recap
his play because he was phenomenal. He was one of
the better players on the Bills team on both sides
of the ball. Very quick obviously off the ball, but
when when you add that quickness and the quick hands
and power when he swings those paws, you can see
it can throw guys off balance and he can put

(47:40):
him at the quarterback very quickly.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, so many of these wins that will show. And
again we talked about it in last week's episode coming
out of the Bears game. When he can use his
hands and he can play to his length, he's gonna
be a problem. So much of it I think when
it comes to the story or the narrative around him,
and rightfully so is like he's it's huge, and look
how well he moves everybody. I mean McGovern said it,

(48:03):
the broadcast is said it the whole, like Bear with
ballerina legs and how he moves and everything, and I
get it, but I feel like the trajectory and consistency
and what he can really be will be tied to
hand usage and length. This is a good example right here,
just like watch the pause, watch the quickness, and you
know with how big and heavy those hands probably are.
When he hits somebody, you're feeling that jolt and the

(48:26):
length on top of it. I like the comment from
Mark in the chat saying it reminds me of John
Henderson a fit. If he can play to John Henderson's level,
I would take that.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
I think that's honestly if we're I don't think it's
one for one obviously.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
But different body types, but I could understand the kind
of Yeah, how they're built.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I think they're hulking the same way. But I don't
think John Henderson moved like this. If you put John
Henderson and Marcustraud together, you're getting Deon Walker. Oh that
tandem was so good together. But if you put those
two guys together, because Stroud could move, Henderson was more
of like a beast, I don't he couldn't rush and
move like Dean Walker Ken. So I think I think

(49:03):
that you know, a lot of people have said that
comp but I think that's the difference.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
But I don't remember him yelling at the trainer to
slap him in the face to get geeked up for games. Now, Joe,
you got to do better, Joe, and then you just
slap the hell.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
And this is where I think Henderson was really good
playing big playing in long keeping offensive linemen at arm's length,
and then just watch his feet. Okay, you see his
hands pop out, and honestly I could see him.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
I could. I wish you'd do a better job. This
is how we.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Teach the fifth instant, fifth five year old, six year old,
seven year olds how the block in flag football. Right now,
I'd like a little more control with the hands. He's
just kind of like he's got his hands out like that, right.
I want to see him control the jersey and the
man there. But either way, you see him eventually grab
cloth and then he's working his feet around those hands.

(49:52):
And essentially again he's essentially two gapping here. He's able
to play two different gaps, disengage and make the tackle.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Yeah, being able to have the the feet and the
footwork work in tandem or kind of opposite of depending
on how you look at it. Of the hand usage
is really important and him being able to do that
at that size is so impressive, but again so important.
Could and just lean into your hand usage, lean into
that length and to your point, yeah, hand placement cool,

(50:21):
grab some cloth, get some jersey, control your man, you've
got your There's a good chance he's gonna win first
touch anytime he wants to. But get your hands there,
get the grip established, that established dominance. That's what I
want him to do inside. And you can do that
with his hand usage and placement and that length against

(50:41):
almost anyone, and then you can really start to tie
in being fleet of foot and nimble and athletic once
you do that. And yet this one, oh boy, tremendously
exciting here.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah, again, playing long, that was the critique we gave
him the first couple of games. Play long, use that length,
and you see when he does, he, like you said,
he can win first touch more times than not. And
that's gonna blow that out of as alignement back into
the backfield, and that allows him to again essentially two gap.
Essentially play two gaps here and then just take the
back door, throw that guy down, and go make the

(51:14):
tackle in the backfield.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, this one was so nice to see on broadcast.
They showed a good end zone angle of it. I
couldn't wait to get to it on the tape. And yeah,
you got highlighted that two gaping piece right there. He's
got control of seventy nine and as you highlighted the
two pathways, he's got his head inside. He's eyeing the
running back. He can keep playing to that gap if
thirty seven goes that way, or if thirty seven cuts back,

(51:38):
he can shed fit right off of it, which is
what he does. And just look how easily he discards
seventy nine chucks him right by. Shout out to Michael Hoyt.
Set in the edge a little bit there, which forces
thirty seven to have to pin it back inside and
there's Dean Walker to make a play. This is If
he can continue to do this against like starting level caliber,
then we got a stew going.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Like I said, I outlined it there like he's literally
it's not the traditional sense.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
It's quasi to gaping.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
It's not the traditional Okay, stack, don't move anchor down
and basically play your eyes in two gaps. It's not
like that he's actually penetrating his attacking up field.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
He's doing what the Bills want him to do.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
But at the same time, he's got the feet, the hands,
and the recognition to.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Disengage and go make the tackle.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
He's he's winning in a way that allows him to
cover two gaps at the same time. So it's not traditional,
but it's a similar level of end result in terms
of what he can cover.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
His recognition of run blocking concepts we saw Sam don't
run it against him if he's playing nose tackles against
run gap against him, because he senses that center leaving
right and that left guard coming down on that down
block and he just is able to beat it in
several different ways. So then this one you see him

(52:57):
recognize it and kind of swim it right. He swims it,
gums things up, and really blows up this play and
makes the tackle. I'll show you some other examples of
him winning versus these type of blocks and gap runs
and doing it in different ways. Just awesome stuff from
him when it came to blowing up these gap runs.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, seeing this one against the Bears, we highlighted this
last week he had a couple plays another really strong
play against counter to blow up a buccaneer's run attempt
this past week. These ones get me really excited because
it's not just oh, I'm big and I'm athletic and
I'm kind of a unicorn combination. This is actual processing,
This is reading understanding. This is some of what I

(53:38):
loved so much about Tyler Williams prospect coming out of
Ohio State is his ability to so quickly and accurately
diagnose run concepts and blow them up. This is awesome. Like, yeah,
like you said, he recognizes that baits the centers moving
away from him, gets eyes to the guard, swims him,
MUCKs up seventy nine, who's trying to down block and

(53:59):
get himself to Dorian Williams wrecks this whole play off
of recognition paired with that athleticism. And yeah, another example
right here, do not run.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
He just sees it coming and again center's leaving. Here
comes the left guard down on him. Look at where
his eyes are here, and then now look at where
look at his right hand, look at his right hand.
Instead of swimming this over the top of his left
he takes on force, with force. As that center's going away,
he gets his arm loaded all right, you can see
it's loaded, it's tight to his body in his frame,

(54:31):
and then he just twirks that guy and torks him
to the ground, just drops him like a bad habit,
and then just blows this play up like that type
of Again, it's not just recognizing it, it's having everything
working together, eyes, hands, length, and then the size and
power to make this play. It's just it was so

(54:53):
much fun to watch this preseason.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yeah, and being able to do it, Like showing these
plays back to back is so nice because the first
one you have, so we have recognition in both, but
the first one is wow, look at that athleticism. Look
at the movement this one. It's let me just be
a bull or a bear inside. Look, this is physicality.
I love you mentioned like getting that hand there. You

(55:14):
can even see him dip a little bit with his
head and his shoulder because he feels that block coming.
But he knows he's not in position to swim it
or beat it by shooting or penetrating, so he takes
on that block and then yeah, the power, look at
the transition as he just like you said, torqus that
when they urged happened. I kept watching it from the

(55:36):
different angles of the ALL twenty two because I was like,
did the guard fall? Did he trip me? Like?

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Yeah, someone step on his face at the yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
And no walker did that gummed up his footwork by
just making contact and then you know one arm benching
him and also the placement too, like look how he
just again like for a he's able to get lower
leverage body position. Bang, he turns that entire left shoulder
of the guard outward and upward and drops him. That's

(56:06):
that kind of power paired with the recognition, paired with
the size and athleticism. Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, And you're gonna see these type of plays and
blocking even in the past game. So the Bucks show
a similar type blocking scheme, but it's a pass and
you're gonna see here comes that down block from the
right guard.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
This time you see him recognize it.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Look at the arm length and the wingspan, and then
how he just gets his hands in place throws that
guy by.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
It's so easy.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
If you use your hands properly and place them, you're
taking that guy's momentum as it's going left right on
your screen and just escorting him by.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
It's so much easier. It doesn't even take much power.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
It's that arm length, it's that recognition and that ability
to just throw that guy by and go get in
the quarterback's face. And it forced a quarterback to get
rid of it when he was actually looking to take
a shot down field. And I think there was two crossers.
It was almost like, yeah, what the Bills used to run?
And Bishop was cut in one of them. But they're
trying to get the ball downfield, but Walker sped up

(57:06):
the process because of this recognition, length and quickness to
the checkdown. And then the Bills just rallied to the ball.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yeah, and then Andrew Andresen make the play in space.
I don't have too much to add on this one.
I just again hand usage length. I like that he's
got his hand reaching out for the center and then
also still feeling for the guard like so he is.
It's not just again relying on athleticism or physicality. He's
playing it from a smart position or trying to create,

(57:35):
you know, an advantage for himself and understand where are
guys near me, who's moving where? How can I feel
through this? And then yeah, just a just a simple
little let me run seventy two by you created a
bit of a short edge, and now I'm bearing down
the quarterback like an actual bear, like running down at
Kyle Trask.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Just imagine in like two to three years, when he's
in a training program, you know, the entire year in
the offseason with the Bills, and he tightens up his
core and he tightens up those hips, and how he's
gonna be able to create that rotational force and he
already naturally has to tort guys like this and throw
guys by. Just wait till he actually works on those

(58:16):
muscles and areas. How he's gonna be able to do
these things like, it's gonna be another level when you're
talking about that type of stuff. So on his sack
against the Bucks, what do you know, same type of thing,
center center back blocking, similar type thing here they're running
off a fake and of power, and this one he
he doesn't come back inside. He actually stays outside. You know,

(58:38):
the center punches out with his left. So Walker says,
all right, I'm gonna punch out with my left and
open up the back door here. And as soon as
he opens up the back door with his length and
power and just watch his feet again, he hands and
feet working together.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Boom opens up that edge.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Look at the feet, Look at his how he's karaoka
rushing there, crossing those feet, able to run up field.
And then as soon as that guy trying to recover,
he says, you know what, and he's not even using
his right hand here, but he's got the power in
the feet to work around the hands of this blocker,
to cut back inside, flatten and go get the quarterback.

(59:13):
This he's been so much fun to watch because there's
so much detail in his play, whether it's to run
or rush in the passer, there's so much detail to it.
And it's scary because right now it just seems like
it's his natural athleticism and skills. Wait again, wait till
he can get in the program two to three years,
weight room two to three years, and coaching in two

(59:35):
three years. This point could be scary if he stays healthy.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Yeah, I think what's also really encouraging to you know,
like what you talked about towards the end of the
previous clip, Like I was impressed with how he already
in just a small not full NFL offseason or year,
already kind of changed his body composition a little bit,
like he trimmed down a bit in his midsection and
in his upper body. Changed the way he looked physically

(01:00:01):
and how he's built, which should help him move better,
should help his back, and just what he needed to do.
He couldn't operate at that size and build like he
was a Kentucky. And if he can do that in
just a small amount of time, yeah, imagine what kind
of conditioning or shape he can get in full time
in the NFL and then pairing it with stacking techniques
and learning and growing and building and if you have

(01:00:23):
if he stays dedicated to it and builds on that
regiment like goodness, gracious, there's power, there's athleticism, there's hand placement.
That rep was. Yeah, just imagine you're you're wrenched back
and then all of a sudden, he just quickly bop
pop and gets through your hands and now we're barreling
down on the QB.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, he's just uh, he's just on the full, like
full attack the entire time, right, like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
A bear, like an actual bear.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, I'm opening up this edge and I'm attacking this edge.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Oh you're recovering. I'll go back across your face, flattening,
get to the quarterback spot like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
And what you mentioned too, what's nice like once they're
fully heal, well not shouldn't healthy. Once Ogan Joby comes back.
I like the idea, like you potentially alluded to, I
might be putting words in your mouth, but play him
fifteen to twenty snaps and let him just eat in
the second eat in the second half. Yeah, against offensive
linemen that are tired of been playing the whole game,
and now you've got this huge mountain of a man

(01:01:15):
just trying to work through you or work around you.
In the second half when you're maybe down ten points
or fourteen, you have to pass the ball, like, oh goodness, gracious.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
He's just he's a game wrecker, man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
You see it's some violence in his hand usage, and
it's very quick and sudden, and you saw that and
this bears game again why wide alignment And you know
he attacks outside and then you know, stabs outside and
then goes inside and then just it's just unleashing fury.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
He's just like I Honda from back of the day,
just swatting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Anything and everything in his in his path to get
to the quarterback here.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
It was just it's been so much fun to watch
this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
And that's why I like the future of this interior
defensive line including down.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, this one just to have it creation. You know,
wins inside or is about to win inside. Running back
is just trying to step up and live his life
and check release out and gets hit by Walker. That
causes seventy four to get gummed up. He falls down,
Walker's jumping over him, putting those giant paws up, trying
to make a play on the ball or bat it down,
and then he causes chaos for bage it like, this

(01:02:22):
is such a This is really like pure bowl in
the China shop energy and play right here with just
causing havoc in a multitude ways. And then like if
you're doing this also with guys like Joey Bosa or
Greg Russo or Ed Oliver or either TJ. Sanders, like
guys who know how to hunt a little bit better
or who know how to get to the quarterback, especially

(01:02:45):
for Bosa, who so much of his game is predicated
upon angles and understanding drop depths and how to work
through tackles but also get to the QB and that
all ties together. Oh, like that type of chaos creation
in the interior should pair really well with some dudes
this year and then potentially next year as the kind
of build for the future. Hopefully no no jinks, no jinks.

(01:03:07):
Fingers crossed. That was so dumb with me to say,
I'm too superstitious to say that. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
At Oliver finished with a sixteen point seven win percentage
in the preseason. Daikwon Jones same. Let's see here, Dion
Walker fifteen point four win percentage and t J. Sanders
fifteen point four win percentage. So again, I think the
future is bright. And you know, bringing a guy like
Jordan Phillips who plays with the same size, same get off,

(01:03:36):
you know, girth if you want to throw that in there,
like he's a similar player. And he talked about Jordan
Phillips talked about that in his presser today, how he
can drop some knowledge on the younger guys, And again,
I think that's that's just a plus. There's no downside
to having him on the practice squad, you know, working
to if he has to play someday, but also droping
knowledge in the scheme, little nuggets for a guy that's

(01:03:58):
played his best football in this game. I'm excited about
everything they've compiled and put together. When it comes to
the interior defensive line, real quick, you kind of alluded
to some of the pieces the Bills have added on
the edge. What what with bos and whatnot? What are
you liking from the preseason when it comes to edge,
you mentioned Landon Jackson, talk about Javon Solomon, but also

(01:04:21):
when Michael Hoyt comes back, who also was a guy
that probably with him and Walker are like the two
best players out the entire preseason. I'm talking both sides
of the ball. What's that going to be like? That
that musical chairs game, what is that going to be
like when those guys come back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
I'm really excited for that. I obviously hope the first
six weeks go well, but get me to week eight
when Hoyt is back, and even Okujobi to a degree,
but I'm just very excited for how Hoyt played this preseason.
Dominating tight ends, running through guys, running through tackles, running
through guards, set in the edge against the run, you know,
hitting some you know, some jumping cross chop, beating some

(01:04:59):
guys inside speed to power, just a lot of mix
of like kind of what Brandon Bean talked about earlier today,
just like playing one hundred miles an hour and going
through guys and that type of tenacity. I like off
the edge, but I like it even more if they
put him in the A gap or put them off ball.
And then now you've got Dian Walker who can align

(01:05:20):
in a zero or a one, or a two I
or a two or a three or a four I
or a five. You can put TJ. Sanders in a
wide alignment. You can kick both inside, you could kick
Groot inside, you can put them wide. There's a lot
of schematic potential based off the individual skill sets and
traits they've compiled with this defensive line, and I think

(01:05:41):
the ceiling is high, especially from a pass rush perspective.
I still have questions about what happens regularly from a
run defense standpoint and displacement, but that'll be answered once
we get enough sample size in the regular season. But
I was concerned from a run defense standpoint and from
a pass rush standpoint. This year, I feel better after
seeing preseason stuff, camp stuff. I do feel more hopeful

(01:06:02):
for the pass rush and the some of the parts
and what things could look like schematically, especially with Ryan
Nielsen being here. I'm excited for the for the ones
to really get rolling and considering what this rotation could
look like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I love their combination of power, which has been the
mo when it comes to the edge position, a pass.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Rushing compression, compression, compression length.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
But they've added some athleticism I think, not just a Dan.
I'm going to include the interior defensive line because we've
been basically waxing poetic about them the entire preseason, but
just how the pass rushers, which again that is where
they need to really step up their game in the playoffs.
Pass rushing, their ability that the abilities they've added, the

(01:06:45):
players they've added can attack both edges, whether you're talking
at d N or a detack like like you've seen
guys with TJ. Sanders, Dan Walker on top of guys
like Ed Oliver can attack either of the gaps that
they're lining up and rushing towards. That can be said
a lot of the guys on the outside as well.
Groot has come a long way in that regard and

(01:07:07):
how he's able to now challenge both hips of the tackle.
Obviously Bosa can do it. He can do both edges
and through you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
So I like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
The the skill that they've added and that ability to
attack each each edge of a block or multiple gaps,
get to you know, get to multiple gaps, whether it's
a run game or as a pass rusher. So I'm
excited about these five, these guys finally getting the hunt
in the regular season here in week one, and so

(01:07:35):
it's unfortunate that Hoyt is gonna be out in Oguin Joby,
I think also, I think Ogun Joby got a pretty
bad rap this preseason because of the injury partly, but
I thought that his rushing powers also was kind of
kind of went unnoticed. Especially I think it was the
Bucks game where he's doing a lot of you know,
power rushers, a lot of arm lifts and you know,

(01:07:58):
collapse in that pocket inside. I think, I think this
this d lin is gonna be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
I think given with these guys out, I think this
d line is going to be okay when it comes
to the first quarter of this season, and we're gonna
see some growing paints, there's no doubt about it, but
the Bills are going to rely on a lot of
these young players.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I like that point in Ogunjobe. I went back through
and watched every single snap from him during the preseason
run defense and pass rushing, and he had some better
run defense reps. Then I was expecting a couple of
double teams where he was able to kind of drop
the knee, reduced service area, shed a guy, you know,
shed the inside man of the double, and then being
able to attack the other or like some of those pieces.

(01:08:39):
And even from a rush perspective, he had some rushes
in the Bucks game that I thought went unnoticed, But
a lot of his rushes, especially in the first game
against the Giants, Giants are running a lot of quick game.
Ball was coming out fast. He didn't really get a chance.
They were moving the pocket a lot, they were doing
a lot of play actions, so he had a lot
of disadvantageous situations. And again not that he looked like

(01:09:00):
he was setting the world on fire and making all
these plays, but I do think there was some context
to kind of explain his production or lack thereof, or
how somebody he showed up a bit in the raw,
you know, box scoring. Honestly, I don't know who cares.
Maybe Dan Walker's cooking, and so is T. J. Sanders.
And Larry Ogunjobi's defensive tackle five. I don't care who
balls out on the inside as long as somebody does.

(01:09:21):
And again, if Ogunjobi's terrible somehow and all you know,
we spent eight million for one year, who cares it's
one year, doesn't matter like I would actually love, you know,
the financial allocation might not be great if Ogunjobi has
to take a back seat because Walker and Sanders are
balling out, that means they're developing fast, they're ready.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
I do not care, right and he again, coming from
the division he's played in Ogunjobi, I think his his value,
his versatility will come in hand in the locker room. Yes,
but also that that grit, that Sam Paper type attitude
and play and blue collar play that he plays with.
I think that can be infectious too the young guys

(01:10:00):
as well. So I think there's some added value there
that maybe we don't see, you know, tangentially on the field,
but you're gonna see that over time and learning from
Jordan Phillips talked about guys he learned from, you know,
when he was in Miami, and I think Ogunjobi could
be that guy. Whether he's getting a lot of playing
time or not for the guys like Dean Walker and TJ.

(01:10:20):
Sanders and even some at the edge position.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Yeah, and especially with him, you know, we talked about
the three tech stuff he did before he went to Pittsburgh,
and he goes to Pittsburgh, he's playing more of a
three four defensive end four. I He's got a lot
of experience in this league in a multitude of alignments
and in odd fronts and even fronts, and for a
defense like the Bills that are even front based, but
they're gonna put Sanders and Walker in some wider alignments,

(01:10:45):
you know. Yeah, by all means, share that knowledge, pass
it on to There's a good mix of some veteran
presence in the D line that can help the younger
guys potentially develop and add on to what they have
from a skill set and trade standpoint. So I am.
I am much more hopeful about this group, and I
was coming into the preseason, and I hope, I hope
that feeling stays. And I'm gonna put it out there

(01:11:06):
before anybody even says it, even if Baltimore houses them
in the first game. Baltimore is a you andicorn of
an offense. They give everyone problems. I still don't think
the Bills defense is a great matchup form. So even
if they put five hundred yards and four hundred of
them are run into the ball against the Bills, don't panic,
don't get crazy. We have to let the season develop,
get some sample size, let these guys get time on task. Eric.

(01:11:29):
As you start to wind down here and say goodbye,
anything for the people here before we officially end the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
I appreciate everyone joining us live. Appreciate you if you're
watching it later on tonight. Appreciate you even more if
you share it with someone that you know that would
enjoy this content.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Of course, we're not just on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
You can find us on all podcast platforms, whether it's iHeartRadio, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, you can find us everywhere and anywhere. Also,
if you haven't, you know, taken a look at Turf
the tape with Sale Capaci and I please, you know,
dive into that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Let me know what you think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
You know, it's a different angle on you know, kind
of what we do here in the film room. It's
taken the film and analysis and combining it with the
media angle and access that Sale has, and it's been
really fun. You guys have really supported us to get
that show off the ground. We appreciate it. So if
you haven't go check it out. We record once a
week as well, just like we do in the film room,

(01:12:28):
and just overall, huge thanks. It's been a long off season,
not quite the regular season yet, but we're trying to
get our reps and we're trying to get our five
o'clock you know, show ready each and every week.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
But it's one of those things.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
We have tough schedules and we apologize ahead of time
if we don't go at the same time every week.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
But either way, you know, when we are live or
when we.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Do record, we're gonna be bringing it. It's gonna be
in depth and you're gonna have a lot of fun.
And I hope you guys had fun tonight. How could
you not Dean Walker film that was fun?

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
So many people are just I would say, you do
anything with Deon Walker and everybody just wants that and
gobbles that up. So yeah, I hope you folks enjoyed
this episode. And yeah, Eric, I could not have said
it better. Where We're thankful for everybody who rolled with
us this offseason and who is cognizant of our schedules
and when we drop episodes and what we do. But
we're starting to get into that rhythm, as is the
entire brand as we start to move forward for that

(01:13:21):
regular season push. So check out the multitude of content
we have across the entire channel, including Turf to Tape
with Eric and Sal. We're pumped to have the shows
that we have spread across this network. So whether it's
this episode or this show or another show, or the
channel or the brand, whatever have you, we appreciate any
and every positive aspect of support likes, ratings, reviews, turning

(01:13:46):
out notifications, subscribing, following positive word of mouth, to tell
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of support from you folks, in whatever form or fashion
it comes in. Drop a light here if you're watching
on YouTube, if you're listening, please rate, review and subscribe,
turn on notifications here on YouTube. Relax and get ready

(01:14:10):
for that's right, thirty Jersey says, man, that got me excited.
Football is almost here. We are so close. We're so
very close, even though that first weekend is gonna feel
long because the bills are the Sunday night game. We
got to sit around all day. I know, I want.
I love that the bills are good. I definitely miss
Sunday one o'clock games. Just take me back there. I
appreciate that that time. But alas, they're good now, so

(01:14:32):
we have to play in primetime. But yeah, thank you
folks for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed this episode.
Rate review, subscribe, like, share, word of mouth, all that
stuff that'll do it for us. Here in this episode
of the film Room for myself Anthony Prohaska, for the
godfather and founder of Cover One, mister Eric Turner, we
hope you and your family and friends and loved ones

(01:14:53):
are all doing well and staying safe. Be kind to
one another, take care of one another. We will see you.
When we see you, God Speak and as always, go
bosm

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