The Fortified Life Podcast with Jason Davis
Episode 198 – Gloriana Teh: Paradoxical Leadership and Conflict Resolution
Overview: In this engaging episode of The Fortified Life Podcast, host Jason Davis sits down with Gloriana Teh, founder of Claritás Consulting & Coaching, to explore practical ways leaders can resolve conflict, build thriving teams, and connect the head and heart in leadership. Drawing on her background as a chemical engineer and nearly two decades in industry, Gloriana shares how she uses data, leadership development, and a unique paradoxical leadership framework to equip technical leaders with the tools they need to navigate challenges in the workplace.
This episode is part of the Tools and Resources series, offering actionable strategies you can apply immediately in your personal and professional life.
Key Topics Covered1. Connecting the Head and the Heart in Leadership
About the Host – Jason Davis Jason Davis, known as “Mr. Fortify,” is an author, speaker, and coach dedicated to helping leaders integrate their faith into the marketplace. Through The Fortified Life Podcast, Jason provides the tools, strategies, and encouragement needed to live out God’s calling in business and work.
Episode 198 – Gloriana Teh: Paradoxical Leadership and Conflict Resolution
Overview: In this engaging episode of The Fortified Life Podcast, host Jason Davis sits down with Gloriana Teh, founder of Claritás Consulting & Coaching, to explore practical ways leaders can resolve conflict, build thriving teams, and connect the head and heart in leadership. Drawing on her background as a chemical engineer and nearly two decades in industry, Gloriana shares how she uses data, leadership development, and a unique paradoxical leadership framework to equip technical leaders with the tools they need to navigate challenges in the workplace.
This episode is part of the Tools and Resources series, offering actionable strategies you can apply immediately in your personal and professional life.
Key Topics Covered1. Connecting the Head and the Heart in Leadership
- Why technical leaders often face unique challenges transitioning into people-focused roles.
- The importance of using data and behavioral insight to support leadership growth.
- How bridging intellectual analysis with emotional awareness creates stronger teams.
- Defining paradoxes in leadership — balancing qualities that seem contradictory but are actually complementary.
- Examples like short-term vs. long-term thinking, individual needs vs. organizational priorities, and directness vs. diplomacy.
- How servant leadership embodies paradox by combining authority with humility.
- Identifying communication style paradoxes, such as frankness vs. diplomacy.
- Why extreme tendencies can cause misunderstandings and erode trust.
- The concept of “respectful candor” — communicating directly with empathy.
- Conflict is often a visible symptom of more profound value differences.
- Like a dandelion weed, removing only the surface issue allows the problem to return and spread.
- The need to address root causes early to prevent wider cultural damage.
- How the Harrison Paradox Report reveals personal tendencies and blind spots.
- Awareness is the first step, but behavioral change and practice are essential for lasting improvement.
- Building conflict resolution “muscle memory” through small, consistent actions.
- Recognize value differences that might be driving tension.
- Be aware of personal triggers to prevent escalation.
- Use team assessments to appreciate diverse strengths and perspectives.
- Adjust styles depending on context, dialing directness or diplomacy up or down as needed.
- Learn More: Claritás Consulting & Coaching
- Assessment Tool: Harrison Paradox Report
- Host Website: Fortified Life Podcast
- Jason Davis’s Book: Fortified: Being Rooted in God’s Plan for Work and Business (Available on Amazon)
About the Host – Jason Davis Jason Davis, known as “Mr. Fortify,” is an author, speaker, and coach dedicated to helping leaders integrate their faith into the marketplace. Through The Fortified Life Podcast, Jason provides the tools, strategies, and encouragement needed to live out God’s calling in business and work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the Fortified Life podcast, where we learn how
to develop a dependency on Jesus in the marketplace. From
the boardroom to the bathroom. God is with you. Here's
our host, author, speaker, teacher, encourager, here, chief coach, and
my husband. It's the man they call mister forty five
Jason Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey, what's going on everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Welcome back to another episode of the Fortified Life podcast
where we are passionate about building a dependency on Jesus
and the marketplace. I'm your host, Jason Davis aka mister Fortify.
Every week we have the opportunity to bring on authors, speakers, coaches, CEOs,
leaders of nonprofits who are also passionate about putting God
(01:00):
back in business. Today is another addition to our Tools
and Resources series, where you take tools, resources, frameworks, ideas, products,
even that you can apply in both your personal and
professional life immediately. Not just theory but reality and folks,
(01:21):
I am very excited. Joining us on today's episode is
someone that I have gotten to know in the recent
our recent time together, and I got to tell you, folks,
she is so exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
But let me tell you a little bit more about her.
Gloriana Tay.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
She founded clary to Us Consulting and Coaching to equip people,
people leaders with data and provide leadership development for leaders
of technical teams and STEM professionals so you can build
thriving and accomplish more by connecting the head and the
(02:02):
heart thriving teams. That is, Ladies and gentlemen, Please welcome
to the four to five Live podcast. Gloriana Tay. Gloriana,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Hi, Jason, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Absolutely, yes, definitely good to see Gloriana Gloriana today for
tools and resources, we're actually going to unpack something that
you are really familiar with, and that's conflict resolution and folks.
More specifically, Gloriana has a lot of different frameworks that
(02:33):
she has built over the years that she works with clients,
and so we're going to talk about actually how to
reduce conflict and with what she calls paradoxical leadership.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So listen, Gloriana, I am not the expert.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm' let's start with let's give a little background, how
did you even get into what you're doing now? And
then we'll set up the tool and the resource and
dive right in.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So tell the audience about yourself a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, So I've always been interested in psychology. Even when
I was in college, I was managing a team, and
you know, I'm a chemical engineer by training, spend almost
twenty years in the industry, and I was frustrated by
(03:23):
how we only took literally like one snapshot. The annual
performance review is the only time we recorded data about
our people. Right, I'm like, this doesn't make any sense.
We would never run a business this way. We look
at those numbers weekly, maybe daily, sometimes at least monthly, Quarteringly,
(03:45):
it's very frequent that we're looking at numbers from a
business standpoint. From a process standpoint, we don't make process
changes unless we really understand what's different or what needs
to be changed. And so that so I think a
little bit of why I ended up doing what I'm
(04:05):
doing because I felt like we have such small capable
people and then leadership is not an easy transition. It's challenging,
and so how can we use data and information to
really help leaders navigate that transition easier, especially technical leaders,
because they're not dealing with people every day. Right, So
(04:28):
I think that's really why I started Clarititas, was to
bridge this what I saw as this disconnect between the
head and the heart, and a lot of it has
to do with my journey as well. Some things came
naturally to me, Jason. I was always good at somehow
(04:48):
leading teams. Like my boss would ask me.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
What is it you're doing?
Speaker 4 (04:53):
And you really couldn't explain it very well to me
back then, but I can now, And other parts were
a lot more challenge interesting. Conflict was one of those
areas like I really had to learn a lot about myself,
and not just tools and techniques, but like how do
I show up in the middle of conflict as well?
(05:15):
And how might other people show up?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Gloriana, thanks for that intro and the audience. I'm telling
you just wait till we unpack it all. I love
what you said about connecting the head and the heart, Gloriana,
because when you're thinking about leadership and even conflict, I
feel like there's certain things going on in people's heads,
other things going on in their heart, and then it
(05:40):
makes it to our mouth and it's like that that's
not quite what was in mind. So I love that
you talked about being a bridge between the two because
that plays such a huge role, especially in conflict and
in leadership. Now, Gloriana, to set things up, I just
want to tell the people, when you hear the word
(06:01):
leadership and then you hear the word paradox, maybe we
could start there, because some people are they're scratching the tin,
scratching the head, Gloria.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I'm with you singularly on leadership.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I'm even with you singularly on the paradox.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And when you put the two together.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Explain that, Oh, leadership is full of paradox. I mean
you're having to like balance oftentimes between short term results
and long term objectives. You're having to balance between that
you're willing to take your having a balance between the
individual people how to motivate them personally versus the needs
(06:44):
of the organization. So it's inherently paradoxical.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It is.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So I think it's actually a very helpful framework. And
there's different types of leadership styles that if we were
to zoom out, like serventtlyleadership, for example, that's a paradox, right,
because you're in a leadership position. Yet the humility and
the willingness to serve, they seem like it's contradictory to
(07:12):
what some people may perceive as what a leader should
look like. Situational leadership is another form of leadership where
it's you're supporting or directing, and sometimes you need to
be doing both and sometimes it's one or the other
and being able to adjust. So there when we talk
about paradox is these ideas of two things that at
(07:33):
first seem opposite but are in facts synergistic or complementary.
And when we can tap into that, I think we
could show up as stronger, better leaders.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's good. That's good, Glorian.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Especially bringing up servant leadership, that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's like, wait a minute, but.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I'm the person and then what do you mean serving?
I love the language that you gave. So, Gloriana, let's
unpack the framework. So now that we understand the definition
and some examples of wow, you know what that is
a paradox, So how do I actually work with people
(08:11):
and how do I go about resolving conflict?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yes, so it came I had a conversation with her.
Name's doctor Joe Long, and this is I think what
sparked me to really get thinking about this. I'm trained
in a certified Harrison Assessments provider and one of the
core reports that Harrison has is literally called a paradox report,
(08:38):
Jason and what we see. So I was explaining this
to doctor Long and I was saying, what doctor Harrison
has found is when we don't value the complementary paradox,
then often we can view it negatively. And I'll give
an example the when I to uses around communication, and
(09:03):
the two paradoxical traits when it comes to communication are
being frank or being diplomatic. Some people tend to be
a lot more direct in their communication style. Other people
tend to be more indirect in their communication style. And
I had a client once that his preference was really
just to be more direct, right, So I asked him,
(09:24):
how do you view people that are more indirect when
and when they talk to you? And he said, I
think they're being insincere or hiding something. Do you think
that might cause some conflict?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Absolutely? What happened to the trust ability?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yes, yeah, and vice versa. Right, somebody that maybe had
some more indirect communication style. If somebody's super blunt with them,
they may feel hurt. They may feel of that and
there may be no mal intent, but there's damage done
when we are not that wish that it's okay you
want to actually be when it comes to communication. And
(10:11):
here's that paradoxical leadership skill. Right, it's not radical candor
that we're after. Radical candor doesn't work too well. I
know there's a book called radical candor. Kim Scott's actually
written another book. I don't know if people know this
called radical respect so enough person just calls it respectful candor,
(10:35):
because that's really what we're after, is being able to
communicate directly enough but politely, nicely right to get our
communication across. And when you know it's one or the other,
the chances of that miscommunication increases. However, when we are
more aware of these differences in nication styles and this
(10:59):
paradi once you really know someone, you're like, that's just
how he is. He tends to come across that way
or she tends to come across this way, and we
tend to be a little bit.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
More open to that. But when we don't know someone right.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Being aware of this paradox can perhaps help us to
avoid some of that miscommunication and conflict.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
It makes a lot of sense, and the not to
down a book or anything but the terminology I certainly
understand then, like you said, supportive versus being more direct man,
especially if you're in a management role, having a one
on one or even just in a meeting, a team meeting,
(11:47):
and somebody just their personality styles a little bit more
versus the other one. So I see a lot of
examples Gloriana or just on a day to day basis,
you have those two competing communication styles or even thought processes.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
There's a Gloriana in your opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Once you because I feel like the first step is awareness, right,
and I love that's what the assessment does. Now we
could I'm sure we could nerd out for hours on
the assessment alone, but glory am I tracking? So there's
the awareness brings clarity, claritas foot you all see what
(12:26):
I did there. So the awareness brings clarity. But once
you're aware of Glorian and now we've got to we've
got to act now, right?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It is that just enough for me to know?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So how do you help people get from the oh okay,
I see or that showing up?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Now? What do I do?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Fat for us?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Absolutely, So the assessment has twelve of these paradoxical pairs. Jason,
and some people like you said awareness because it's not
that we're trying to always show up with that paradox.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Sometimes we have to adjust our stiles.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Sometimes we just have natural tendencies, but there are ways
to change how that impact shows up negatively. So it's
really a lot to do with the follow right. Like
you said, change starts with awareness. I completely wholeheartedly agree
with that, and that's why just reading a book or
(13:27):
taking the assessment is not necessarily the end all be all.
The coaching is a big part of helping people through
that behavior will shift, because these are the beauty of
this is it's based more on behavior than personality, and
behavior is something we can choose to change. And they're
(13:47):
literally exercises that I can help people with as far
as walking through some of this and also different resources
depending on what paradox it is that they're wanting to
work on.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's good, GLORI on it sounds like everybody needs to
take this assessment, right, so, Gloriana and thinking about the framework,
and I love the and this is on by the way,
folks will have all this in the show notes. She's
got an awesome blog.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I love the setup.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Gloriana, We've got the problem, We've got the inflict, which
is more of the symptom, and then we've got underground
the values. And folks, if you saw this visual it
is a plant, and then there's dirt, and there's roots
down down below, and up top the flower the part
(14:39):
that everybody can see, that's the you have.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
The conflict section.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You got the problem up top, and then you got
the values down below, which is a just such a
stunning visual glory on it because I was seeing where
you're going there, unpacked that visual force, because I don't
even know if we consciously realize how the three of
those are factoring together when it comes to resolving conflict.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah, so I was thinking of how to visualize this,
like you were saying, Jason, And the image is that
flowers a dandelion.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
It's a.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Weird Oh no, oh.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
They're pesky, right they can if you just pluck off
the dandelion, it's not going to get rid of the problem.
And my background, like I mentioned, as an engineer, we
did a lot of what's called is root cause analysis.
Oftentimes when we have an issue and it's this case,
it's conflict, Right, we're trying to address the symptom, but really,
(15:45):
if we don't get to the root cause, those issues
are just going to keep popping back up. So that's
it's a bit like that dandelion. If we just pluck
the dandelion, the roots are still there, right, It's just
going to grow back.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And the other thing about.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It is that what if we don't PLoP the dandelion,
why then you know, if those seeds start spreading all
over the place, now you end up with lots of
and said, lots more problems. So it is important to
address the conflict earlier rather than later because otherwise, you know,
(16:20):
it can start to fester. So the conflict is the symptom, right,
The root cause is a difference in values. Yeah, and
this is remember when I was mentioning, I was talking
to doctor Long and that's what really resonated with her.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
She's her research is based.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
On looking at those differences in values and how do
they attribute to causing conflict? And it aligns with those paradoxes, Right,
we value things differently. I know you've done a lot
of project management, and so this example might resonate Jason.
It's the classic water follow versus agile. That's another paradox
(17:04):
being organized versus being flexible and what happens if we
devalue one versus the eight can really cause especially in
situations where it would make sense to be using a
little bit of both and use more of a hybrid approach,
if we lean too far one way versus the other,
that can actually cause more problems.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Wow, Gloriana, this I feel like I just got to
download off of your of the image. So this would
forgive me if this comes off as just humorous, but
I couldn't you know that phrase spreading like a wildflower?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That it hit me.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Because in all seriousness, listeners, conflict we a human we
generally don't want some depend on your personality, but generally speaking,
we just don't.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Wake up looking for a fight, per se.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So when you describe that, Gloriana, it made me think about, Wow,
when conflict is unresolved, it spreads, and now all of
a sudden, that one pesky weed now it's all over
your garden and all of your grass. Now it's impacting
things like culture, decision making, so many different aspects of business.
(18:23):
So that is a powerful visual and that's just something
that I got. Oh, conflict is pesky. You need to
make a shirt about that, Gloriana. I would buy that
conflict is pesky. Beware that's good. That's good. So, Gloriana,
we talked about again the example radical candor. So we've
(18:46):
got now we have the visual, we're diving into the
actual problem. What is the root, not the symptom? So
how do we have respectful candor? Now, just as an example,
how do we get there? Especially if you're on one
side or the other and you're aware and you go, Okay,
I recognize what I need to do. How the more
(19:08):
balanced or in some instances, Gloria, I've heard it said
it this way.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
How do I dial up and dial down when I
need to?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So the biggest thing to be aware of. So there's
a second part and it ties into your question, Jason.
Oftentimes the conflict arises when we're triggered.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
My goodness, that's that's the that's the new profane word
in today's time.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Gloria is triggers.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, and stress is also bonent that contributes to how
easily we're triggered.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Being aware.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
If we're like it a lot of times, there there
will come this tipping point where it's like you just
had it and then something happens. Right, So it's almost
to recognize what before it just blows up or happens.
How do we catch ourselves and realize, ooh, things are escalating.
(20:10):
This is not good. I'ves already not had a good day.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I just need to walk away.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
We need to have this conversation another time, or take
it offline, like not during the group meeting. We need
a one on one. So those type of things to
recognize before and.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Try and catch it.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It doesn't always it was not all always possible, Jason.
But even if I had one client she went through
the paradox re board, I met with her the next
time she had the awareness, and she came back and
I said.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
How did things go between this time?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Your moan?
Speaker 5 (20:42):
I was saying, and she said, I avoided a train wreck.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And I'm like, oh, that's actually prognastic because you can
avoid a trick between yes last time with this time.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
That's absolutely my goodness, so whole that is so huge, folks,
And we're laughing. But you could see how a lot
of this stuff is funny, but now the blowback of
conflict a lot of times is not funny. But we're
(21:13):
in a especially when you get down to the values level.
Have you found when you're coaching that sometimes depending on
what the issue is that the people, it's like, you
know what, I don't even remember why I got upset.
I just dug in on my stance and now I
(21:33):
were in the coffee break room and I don't want
to see you.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm in a team meeting.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I sit on the other side of the room and
all this and it's like.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Wait a minute, what did we even? What did we do?
What did I do? What did you do?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Let's start over. What's the breakthrough been like? After the awareness,
after the and I love the I avoided a dreaming,
so the I know you'll love this too, just with
the continuous improvement. The kais in the small step. How
do we keep walking toward that and not get stuck
(22:08):
or afraid to continue resolving the conflict? Gloriana, because I've
just found that again that example where we're sitting on
the opposite side of the room, we don't even remember.
So sometimes we use the tactic of avoidance. But how
do we, like, what's your client's cause the train wreck?
How do we encourage them.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
To keep going? Keep going?
Speaker 4 (22:31):
It's the small wins, Jason, Like, it doesn't have to
start with the really big stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's almost like I came coaching to working a physical trainer.
If you've never looked weights before, and you go in
and you're wanting to lift fifty pounds right away and
do bicep curls, you may not be able to. You
might need to start with something.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
A little lighter, like eight or ten pounds. So yeah,
it's if we go in with the.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Expectation, oh, now I'm going to be able to deal
with any type of conflict that arises. I think that's
a bit unrealistic. It's getting the reps in to practice.
The more that we practice, the easier it becomes. And
I'll share a little bit of a personal story. I
think this some folks may be able to relate to.
This disc is a super popular assessment. A lot of
people are familiar with it. I'm actually a pretty high
(23:21):
s and says do not like conflict. So this is
what I said. I've had a work on this. I
don't mind change. I actually like change. Says tend to
not like change as well. But for me, it's more
the conflict. Well what have I done to overcome that?
First of all, when you're a project manager, you have
(23:44):
to deal with a lot of conflict. Its comes with
the job. So I had I got the reps in
the nature right and even though I didn't like it.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And yere's the funny thing.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
When I took a three hundred and sixty evaluation my
self scoring on that particular area, the biggest gap between
how people perceived me and how I perceived myself was
related to conflict. They scored me on a one to
five scale as over a four, and I just put
myself as a three. And so that's the interesting part
(24:15):
is even though we may never like it, Jason, we
ever really feel like we want to know it's not
fun to deal with it doesn't mean we can't become
more effective.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's well said.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So Gloriana, obviously we want everybody to take the assessment.
If people are dealing with conflict today and they don't
know about the Harrison assessment, what's maybe the top two
to three things for somebody to remember that they could
do today when it comes to conflict that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Okay, this work. That worked.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Then I'll call up Gloriana, then I'll email her take
the assessment. But what's if I don't take the assessment?
What are just some things on the top of your
head that I could do right now.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah, things look for is there a difference in values
in what we value? Okay, what paradoxes might be at play?
Speaker 5 (25:08):
And this is simple.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Some people value being very timely, like getting things done
in a certain way, and other people are a lot
more relaxed, So that could potentially cause some conflict. So
looking for those differences in values. And second of all,
it's back to trying to become more aware of what
are your triggers and avoiding that the situations where things
(25:32):
are building. To avoid the point where it goes over
the edge, especially in situations makes sense.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So folks, remember today VT values and trigger VT or VNT.
It's another shirt glory and I'm making I got a
whole clothing lot. Who knew that frameworks, consulting and coaching
could produce T shirts? We made two today. I'm just
saying you heard it here on the Fortified Life. I
(26:02):
know our time is coming to an end. What would
you say is the next right step for someone to
take in there? So there's personally but in their organization
as well. To Gloriana, We've had a lot of companies
work on this post COVID post pandemic world. So many
(26:23):
things are shifting culturally, politically, All these different things are
affecting the marketplace. What's the next right step for a
person or an organization and their team to take with conflict.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Well, I do believe if they've never done a team
assessment before, Jason, it's good to do the team assessment
because you know, we understand how are people different from it,
be it disc or be it Harrison. The paradox Report
comes as a team assessment as well, and so it's
very powerful once you can really start to see the
(27:00):
differences and appreciate the differences that your teammates bring to
the table.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I love that. Get the team involved, team wins.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Glorian, I want to address the skeptic in the back
of the room for a second, Like, Gloriana, this sounds
really good, there's some nice o' fluffy words. But for
the skeptic, Gloriana, what's maybe the eyebrow raiser? Like, if
you don't buy into paradoxical leadership, what's the if? Then
(27:33):
for that person, that's what I've done is worked up
until this point. They need to be aware of paradoxical
leadership because how would we finish that phrasing.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, the world's just a lot more complex, uncertainly volatil
we need the old frameworks. Seem to struggle with that, Jason,
And that's why this one is more robust in that
sense as far as if we're only willing to do
(28:09):
things our way, eventually that's going to cause problems, right
and we if we're not open to hearing how other
people's perspectives and you know where they're coming from, then yeah,
then Bill's continue dealing with along conflict, true or.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
In the around and around we go. Right, But Gloriana,
this has been awesome. Folks, We're gonna have to bring
her back. So listen, she's got frameworks and type of frame.
But also, folks, when you hear framework, there's practicality. So
a lot of times people hear framework methodology and it's like, ah,
it's some academic or some theory. But folks, we talked
(28:52):
about a lot of living, breathing examples. And remember the
shirt that Gloriana is going to make when we get
off V and T. Remember your values and your triggers
today V and T. So, Gloriana, with your coaching consulting,
what's the best way for listeners to connect with you
your blog? How can they get started with the Harrison Assessment.
(29:15):
They're like, they listen to this, they saw your face.
They said, all right, I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Ready to rock and roll. Where can I find her?
Where can they go, Gloriana?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
On my website, it's claritessconsult coach dot com.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
It's got contact info.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
You can go ahead and book of discoveries. Call complimentary.
It's very easy, or sign up for the blog also
on the website.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Awesome, the folks.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Now, Gloriana and I could nerd out another three hours,
but we can't do that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We've got to let her go.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
She's got to continue helping people resolve conflict, and so
we'll have all of her information in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
So don't you worry.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You'll know exactly how to connect with her and then
you can get started on your Paradox School leadership journey. Gloriana,
thank you so much for hanging out with us here
on the Fortified Life.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think she will return, folks, if you she'll be back.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
We've got a lot more to unpack, So Gloriana, just
thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Oh thanks for having me, Jason, I had a lot
of fun, so have.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
A good one for sure. Folks.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
That's all we have time for here on the Fortified
Life Podcast. You know how we leave things. Don't compartmentalize
your faith and the marketplace, and from the boardroom to
the bathroom, God is with you. We'll see you next
time on the Fortified Life Podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Thank you for listening to the Fortified Life Podcast. You
can catch us live on Wednesdays at eight thirty pm
Eastern Time and on demand. Check out Fortified lifepodcast dot
com for more details.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So learn how to live out your faith in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Grab a copy of Jason Davis's book Fortified, Being Rooted
in God's Plan for Work in Business, Available on Amazon.
Welcome to the Fortified Life podcast, where we learn how
to develop a dependency on Jesus in the marketplace. From
the boardroom to the bathroom. God is with you. Here's
our host, author, speaker, teacher, encourager, here, chief coach, and
my husband. It's the man they call mister forty five
Jason Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey, what's going on everybody?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Welcome back to another episode of the Fortified Life podcast
where we are passionate about building a dependency on Jesus
and the marketplace. I'm your host, Jason Davis aka mister Fortify.
Every week we have the opportunity to bring on authors, speakers, coaches, CEOs,
leaders of nonprofits who are also passionate about putting God
(01:00):
back in business. Today is another addition to our Tools
and Resources series, where you take tools, resources, frameworks, ideas, products,
even that you can apply in both your personal and
professional life immediately. Not just theory but reality and folks,
(01:21):
I am very excited. Joining us on today's episode is
someone that I have gotten to know in the recent
our recent time together, and I got to tell you, folks,
she is so exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
But let me tell you a little bit more about her.
Gloriana Tay.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
She founded clary to Us Consulting and Coaching to equip people,
people leaders with data and provide leadership development for leaders
of technical teams and STEM professionals so you can build
thriving and accomplish more by connecting the head and the
(02:02):
heart thriving teams. That is, Ladies and gentlemen, Please welcome
to the four to five Live podcast. Gloriana Tay. Gloriana,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
Hi, Jason, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Absolutely, yes, definitely good to see Gloriana Gloriana today for
tools and resources, we're actually going to unpack something that
you are really familiar with, and that's conflict resolution and folks.
More specifically, Gloriana has a lot of different frameworks that
(02:33):
she has built over the years that she works with clients,
and so we're going to talk about actually how to
reduce conflict and with what she calls paradoxical leadership.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So listen, Gloriana, I am not the expert.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I'm' let's start with let's give a little background, how
did you even get into what you're doing now? And
then we'll set up the tool and the resource and
dive right in.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So tell the audience about yourself a little bit.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Yeah, So I've always been interested in psychology. Even when
I was in college, I was managing a team, and
you know, I'm a chemical engineer by training, spend almost
twenty years in the industry, and I was frustrated by
(03:23):
how we only took literally like one snapshot. The annual
performance review is the only time we recorded data about
our people. Right, I'm like, this doesn't make any sense.
We would never run a business this way. We look
at those numbers weekly, maybe daily, sometimes at least monthly, Quarteringly,
(03:45):
it's very frequent that we're looking at numbers from a
business standpoint. From a process standpoint, we don't make process
changes unless we really understand what's different or what needs
to be changed. And so that so I think a
little bit of why I ended up doing what I'm
(04:05):
doing because I felt like we have such small capable
people and then leadership is not an easy transition. It's challenging,
and so how can we use data and information to
really help leaders navigate that transition easier, especially technical leaders,
because they're not dealing with people every day. Right, So
(04:28):
I think that's really why I started Clarititas, was to
bridge this what I saw as this disconnect between the
head and the heart, and a lot of it has
to do with my journey as well. Some things came
naturally to me, Jason. I was always good at somehow
(04:48):
leading teams. Like my boss would ask me.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
What is it you're doing?
Speaker 4 (04:53):
And you really couldn't explain it very well to me
back then, but I can now, And other parts were
a lot more challenge interesting. Conflict was one of those
areas like I really had to learn a lot about myself,
and not just tools and techniques, but like how do
I show up in the middle of conflict as well?
(05:15):
And how might other people show up?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Gloriana, thanks for that intro and the audience. I'm telling
you just wait till we unpack it all. I love
what you said about connecting the head and the heart, Gloriana,
because when you're thinking about leadership and even conflict, I
feel like there's certain things going on in people's heads,
other things going on in their heart, and then it
(05:40):
makes it to our mouth and it's like that that's
not quite what was in mind. So I love that
you talked about being a bridge between the two because
that plays such a huge role, especially in conflict and
in leadership. Now, Gloriana, to set things up, I just
want to tell the people, when you hear the word
(06:01):
leadership and then you hear the word paradox, maybe we
could start there, because some people are they're scratching the tin,
scratching the head, Gloria.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I'm with you singularly on leadership.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I'm even with you singularly on the paradox.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And when you put the two together.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Explain that, Oh, leadership is full of paradox. I mean
you're having to like balance oftentimes between short term results
and long term objectives. You're having to balance between that
you're willing to take your having a balance between the
individual people how to motivate them personally versus the needs
(06:44):
of the organization. So it's inherently paradoxical.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It is.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
So I think it's actually a very helpful framework. And
there's different types of leadership styles that if we were
to zoom out, like serventtlyleadership, for example, that's a paradox, right,
because you're in a leadership position. Yet the humility and
the willingness to serve, they seem like it's contradictory to
(07:12):
what some people may perceive as what a leader should
look like. Situational leadership is another form of leadership where
it's you're supporting or directing, and sometimes you need to
be doing both and sometimes it's one or the other
and being able to adjust. So there when we talk
about paradox is these ideas of two things that at
(07:33):
first seem opposite but are in facts synergistic or complementary.
And when we can tap into that, I think we
could show up as stronger, better leaders.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's good. That's good, Glorian.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Especially bringing up servant leadership, that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's like, wait a minute, but.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
I'm the person and then what do you mean serving?
I love the language that you gave. So, Gloriana, let's
unpack the framework. So now that we understand the definition
and some examples of wow, you know what that is
a paradox, So how do I actually work with people
(08:11):
and how do I go about resolving conflict?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Let's dive in.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yes, so it came I had a conversation with her.
Name's doctor Joe Long, and this is I think what
sparked me to really get thinking about this. I'm trained
in a certified Harrison Assessments provider and one of the
core reports that Harrison has is literally called a paradox report,
(08:38):
Jason and what we see. So I was explaining this
to doctor Long and I was saying, what doctor Harrison
has found is when we don't value the complementary paradox,
then often we can view it negatively. And I'll give
an example the when I to uses around communication, and
(09:03):
the two paradoxical traits when it comes to communication are
being frank or being diplomatic. Some people tend to be
a lot more direct in their communication style. Other people
tend to be more indirect in their communication style. And
I had a client once that his preference was really
just to be more direct, right, So I asked him,
(09:24):
how do you view people that are more indirect when
and when they talk to you? And he said, I
think they're being insincere or hiding something. Do you think
that might cause some conflict?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Absolutely? What happened to the trust ability?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yes, yeah, and vice versa. Right, somebody that maybe had
some more indirect communication style. If somebody's super blunt with them,
they may feel hurt. They may feel of that and
there may be no mal intent, but there's damage done
when we are not that wish that it's okay you
want to actually be when it comes to communication. And
(10:11):
here's that paradoxical leadership skill. Right, it's not radical candor
that we're after. Radical candor doesn't work too well. I
know there's a book called radical candor. Kim Scott's actually
written another book. I don't know if people know this
called radical respect so enough person just calls it respectful candor,
(10:35):
because that's really what we're after, is being able to
communicate directly enough but politely, nicely right to get our
communication across. And when you know it's one or the other,
the chances of that miscommunication increases. However, when we are
more aware of these differences in nication styles and this
(10:59):
paradi once you really know someone, you're like, that's just
how he is. He tends to come across that way
or she tends to come across this way, and we
tend to be a little bit.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
More open to that. But when we don't know someone right.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Being aware of this paradox can perhaps help us to
avoid some of that miscommunication and conflict.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
It makes a lot of sense, and the not to
down a book or anything but the terminology I certainly
understand then, like you said, supportive versus being more direct man,
especially if you're in a management role, having a one
on one or even just in a meeting, a team meeting,
(11:47):
and somebody just their personality styles a little bit more
versus the other one. So I see a lot of
examples Gloriana or just on a day to day basis,
you have those two competing communication styles or even thought processes.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
There's a Gloriana in your opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Once you because I feel like the first step is awareness, right,
and I love that's what the assessment does. Now we
could I'm sure we could nerd out for hours on
the assessment alone, but glory am I tracking? So there's
the awareness brings clarity, claritas foot you all see what
(12:26):
I did there. So the awareness brings clarity. But once
you're aware of Glorian and now we've got to we've
got to act now, right?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It is that just enough for me to know?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So how do you help people get from the oh okay,
I see or that showing up?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Now? What do I do?
Speaker 5 (12:46):
Fat for us?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Absolutely, So the assessment has twelve of these paradoxical pairs. Jason,
and some people like you said awareness because it's not
that we're trying to always show up with that paradox.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Sometimes we have to adjust our stiles.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Sometimes we just have natural tendencies, but there are ways
to change how that impact shows up negatively. So it's
really a lot to do with the follow right. Like
you said, change starts with awareness. I completely wholeheartedly agree
with that, and that's why just reading a book or
(13:27):
taking the assessment is not necessarily the end all be all.
The coaching is a big part of helping people through
that behavior will shift, because these are the beauty of
this is it's based more on behavior than personality, and
behavior is something we can choose to change. And they're
(13:47):
literally exercises that I can help people with as far
as walking through some of this and also different resources
depending on what paradox it is that they're wanting to
work on.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's good, GLORI on it sounds like everybody needs to
take this assessment, right, so, Gloriana and thinking about the framework,
and I love the and this is on by the way,
folks will have all this in the show notes. She's
got an awesome blog.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I love the setup.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Gloriana, We've got the problem, We've got the inflict, which
is more of the symptom, and then we've got underground
the values. And folks, if you saw this visual it
is a plant, and then there's dirt, and there's roots
down down below, and up top the flower the part
(14:39):
that everybody can see, that's the you have.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
The conflict section.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You got the problem up top, and then you got
the values down below, which is a just such a
stunning visual glory on it because I was seeing where
you're going there, unpacked that visual force, because I don't
even know if we consciously realize how the three of
those are factoring together when it comes to resolving conflict.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah, so I was thinking of how to visualize this,
like you were saying, Jason, And the image is that
flowers a dandelion.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
It's a.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Weird Oh no, oh.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
They're pesky, right they can if you just pluck off
the dandelion, it's not going to get rid of the problem.
And my background, like I mentioned, as an engineer, we
did a lot of what's called is root cause analysis.
Oftentimes when we have an issue and it's this case,
it's conflict, Right, we're trying to address the symptom, but really,
(15:45):
if we don't get to the root cause, those issues
are just going to keep popping back up. So that's
it's a bit like that dandelion. If we just pluck
the dandelion, the roots are still there, right, It's just
going to grow back.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And the other thing about.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It is that what if we don't PLoP the dandelion,
why then you know, if those seeds start spreading all
over the place, now you end up with lots of
and said, lots more problems. So it is important to
address the conflict earlier rather than later because otherwise, you know,
(16:20):
it can start to fester. So the conflict is the symptom, right,
The root cause is a difference in values. Yeah, and
this is remember when I was mentioning, I was talking
to doctor Long and that's what really resonated with her.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
She's her research is based.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
On looking at those differences in values and how do
they attribute to causing conflict? And it aligns with those paradoxes, Right,
we value things differently. I know you've done a lot
of project management, and so this example might resonate Jason.
It's the classic water follow versus agile. That's another paradox
(17:04):
being organized versus being flexible and what happens if we
devalue one versus the eight can really cause especially in
situations where it would make sense to be using a
little bit of both and use more of a hybrid approach,
if we lean too far one way versus the other,
that can actually cause more problems.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Wow, Gloriana, this I feel like I just got to
download off of your of the image. So this would
forgive me if this comes off as just humorous, but
I couldn't you know that phrase spreading like a wildflower?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That it hit me.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Because in all seriousness, listeners, conflict we a human we
generally don't want some depend on your personality, but generally speaking,
we just don't.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Wake up looking for a fight, per se.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
So when you describe that, Gloriana, it made me think about, Wow,
when conflict is unresolved, it spreads, and now all of
a sudden, that one pesky weed now it's all over
your garden and all of your grass. Now it's impacting
things like culture, decision making, so many different aspects of business.
(18:23):
So that is a powerful visual and that's just something
that I got. Oh, conflict is pesky. You need to
make a shirt about that, Gloriana. I would buy that
conflict is pesky. Beware that's good. That's good. So, Gloriana,
we talked about again the example radical candor. So we've
(18:46):
got now we have the visual, we're diving into the
actual problem. What is the root, not the symptom? So
how do we have respectful candor? Now, just as an example,
how do we get there? Especially if you're on one
side or the other and you're aware and you go, Okay,
I recognize what I need to do. How the more
(19:08):
balanced or in some instances, Gloria, I've heard it said
it this way.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
How do I dial up and dial down when I
need to?
Speaker 5 (19:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So the biggest thing to be aware of. So there's
a second part and it ties into your question, Jason.
Oftentimes the conflict arises when we're triggered.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
My goodness, that's that's the that's the new profane word
in today's time.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Gloria is triggers.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah, and stress is also bonent that contributes to how
easily we're triggered.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Being aware.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
If we're like it a lot of times, there there
will come this tipping point where it's like you just
had it and then something happens. Right, So it's almost
to recognize what before it just blows up or happens.
How do we catch ourselves and realize, ooh, things are escalating.
(20:10):
This is not good. I'ves already not had a good day.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I just need to walk away.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
We need to have this conversation another time, or take
it offline, like not during the group meeting. We need
a one on one. So those type of things to
recognize before and.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
Try and catch it.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
It doesn't always it was not all always possible, Jason.
But even if I had one client she went through
the paradox re board, I met with her the next
time she had the awareness, and she came back and
I said.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
How did things go between this time?
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Your moan?
Speaker 5 (20:42):
I was saying, and she said, I avoided a train wreck.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And I'm like, oh, that's actually prognastic because you can
avoid a trick between yes last time with this time.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
That's absolutely my goodness, so whole that is so huge, folks,
And we're laughing. But you could see how a lot
of this stuff is funny, but now the blowback of
conflict a lot of times is not funny. But we're
(21:13):
in a especially when you get down to the values level.
Have you found when you're coaching that sometimes depending on
what the issue is that the people, it's like, you
know what, I don't even remember why I got upset.
I just dug in on my stance and now I
(21:33):
were in the coffee break room and I don't want
to see you.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm in a team meeting.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I sit on the other side of the room and
all this and it's like.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Wait a minute, what did we even? What did we do?
What did I do? What did you do?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Let's start over. What's the breakthrough been like? After the awareness,
after the and I love the I avoided a dreaming,
so the I know you'll love this too, just with
the continuous improvement. The kais in the small step. How
do we keep walking toward that and not get stuck
(22:08):
or afraid to continue resolving the conflict? Gloriana, because I've
just found that again that example where we're sitting on
the opposite side of the room, we don't even remember.
So sometimes we use the tactic of avoidance. But how
do we, like, what's your client's cause the train wreck?
How do we encourage them.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
To keep going? Keep going?
Speaker 4 (22:31):
It's the small wins, Jason, Like, it doesn't have to
start with the really big stuff.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's almost like I came coaching to working a physical trainer.
If you've never looked weights before, and you go in
and you're wanting to lift fifty pounds right away and
do bicep curls, you may not be able to. You
might need to start with something.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
A little lighter, like eight or ten pounds. So yeah,
it's if we go in with the.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Expectation, oh, now I'm going to be able to deal
with any type of conflict that arises. I think that's
a bit unrealistic. It's getting the reps in to practice.
The more that we practice, the easier it becomes. And
I'll share a little bit of a personal story. I
think this some folks may be able to relate to.
This disc is a super popular assessment. A lot of
people are familiar with it. I'm actually a pretty high
(23:21):
s and says do not like conflict. So this is
what I said. I've had a work on this. I
don't mind change. I actually like change. Says tend to
not like change as well. But for me, it's more
the conflict. Well what have I done to overcome that?
First of all, when you're a project manager, you have
(23:44):
to deal with a lot of conflict. Its comes with
the job. So I had I got the reps in
the nature right and even though I didn't like it.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And yere's the funny thing.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
When I took a three hundred and sixty evaluation my
self scoring on that particular area, the biggest gap between
how people perceived me and how I perceived myself was
related to conflict. They scored me on a one to
five scale as over a four, and I just put
myself as a three. And so that's the interesting part
(24:15):
is even though we may never like it, Jason, we
ever really feel like we want to know it's not
fun to deal with it doesn't mean we can't become
more effective.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's well said.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So Gloriana, obviously we want everybody to take the assessment.
If people are dealing with conflict today and they don't
know about the Harrison assessment, what's maybe the top two
to three things for somebody to remember that they could
do today when it comes to conflict that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Okay, this work. That worked.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Then I'll call up Gloriana, then I'll email her take
the assessment. But what's if I don't take the assessment?
What are just some things on the top of your
head that I could do right now.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
Yeah, things look for is there a difference in values
in what we value? Okay, what paradoxes might be at play?
Speaker 5 (25:08):
And this is simple.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Some people value being very timely, like getting things done
in a certain way, and other people are a lot
more relaxed, So that could potentially cause some conflict. So
looking for those differences in values. And second of all,
it's back to trying to become more aware of what
are your triggers and avoiding that the situations where things
(25:32):
are building. To avoid the point where it goes over
the edge, especially in situations makes sense.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So folks, remember today VT values and trigger VT or VNT.
It's another shirt glory and I'm making I got a
whole clothing lot. Who knew that frameworks, consulting and coaching
could produce T shirts? We made two today. I'm just
saying you heard it here on the Fortified Life. I
(26:02):
know our time is coming to an end. What would
you say is the next right step for someone to
take in there? So there's personally but in their organization
as well. To Gloriana, We've had a lot of companies
work on this post COVID post pandemic world. So many
(26:23):
things are shifting culturally, politically, All these different things are
affecting the marketplace. What's the next right step for a
person or an organization and their team to take with conflict.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Well, I do believe if they've never done a team
assessment before, Jason, it's good to do the team assessment
because you know, we understand how are people different from it,
be it disc or be it Harrison. The paradox Report
comes as a team assessment as well, and so it's
very powerful once you can really start to see the
(27:00):
differences and appreciate the differences that your teammates bring to
the table.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I love that. Get the team involved, team wins.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Glorian, I want to address the skeptic in the back
of the room for a second, Like, Gloriana, this sounds
really good, there's some nice o' fluffy words. But for
the skeptic, Gloriana, what's maybe the eyebrow raiser? Like, if
you don't buy into paradoxical leadership, what's the if? Then
(27:33):
for that person, that's what I've done is worked up
until this point. They need to be aware of paradoxical
leadership because how would we finish that phrasing.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Yeah, the world's just a lot more complex, uncertainly volatil
we need the old frameworks. Seem to struggle with that, Jason,
And that's why this one is more robust in that
sense as far as if we're only willing to do
(28:09):
things our way, eventually that's going to cause problems, right
and we if we're not open to hearing how other
people's perspectives and you know where they're coming from, then yeah,
then Bill's continue dealing with along conflict, true or.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
In the around and around we go. Right, But Gloriana,
this has been awesome. Folks, We're gonna have to bring
her back. So listen, she's got frameworks and type of frame.
But also, folks, when you hear framework, there's practicality. So
a lot of times people hear framework methodology and it's like, ah,
it's some academic or some theory. But folks, we talked
(28:52):
about a lot of living, breathing examples. And remember the
shirt that Gloriana is going to make when we get
off V and T. Remember your values and your triggers
today V and T. So, Gloriana, with your coaching consulting,
what's the best way for listeners to connect with you
your blog? How can they get started with the Harrison Assessment.
(29:15):
They're like, they listen to this, they saw your face.
They said, all right, I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Ready to rock and roll. Where can I find her?
Where can they go, Gloriana?
Speaker 4 (29:24):
On my website, it's claritessconsult coach dot com.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
It's got contact info.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
You can go ahead and book of discoveries. Call complimentary.
It's very easy, or sign up for the blog also
on the website.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Awesome, the folks.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Now, Gloriana and I could nerd out another three hours,
but we can't do that.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
We've got to let her go.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
She's got to continue helping people resolve conflict, and so
we'll have all of her information in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
So don't you worry.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You'll know exactly how to connect with her and then
you can get started on your Paradox School leadership journey. Gloriana,
thank you so much for hanging out with us here
on the Fortified Life.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think she will return, folks, if you she'll be back.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
We've got a lot more to unpack, So Gloriana, just
thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Oh thanks for having me, Jason, I had a lot
of fun, so have.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
A good one for sure. Folks.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
That's all we have time for here on the Fortified
Life Podcast. You know how we leave things. Don't compartmentalize
your faith and the marketplace, and from the boardroom to
the bathroom, God is with you. We'll see you next
time on the Fortified Life Podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Thank you for listening to the Fortified Life Podcast. You
can catch us live on Wednesdays at eight thirty pm
Eastern Time and on demand. Check out Fortified lifepodcast dot
com for more details.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So learn how to live out your faith in the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Grab a copy of Jason Davis's book Fortified, Being Rooted
in God's Plan for Work in Business, Available on Amazon.
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