AJ Schopp: The Grind, the Pins, and the Journey Back to Edinboro - Go Earn It Ep. 37

Current Edinboro assistant coach AJ Schopp joins Shane Sparks on the latest episode of the Go Earn It Podcast. Schopp was a three-time All-American for the Fighting Scots and recently returned after spending a number of years on staff at Purdue. School discusses his wrestling journey, emphasizing the importance of hard work and mental resilience. He recalls his time at Young Guns, highlighting the impact of the club on his development. Schopp shares his decision to attend Edinboro for its low-key environment and strong academic focus.
 
He reflects on his 2015 NCAA Championships experience, where he overcame a first-round loss to place third, and the significance of team success. Schopp also discusses his competitive nature, particularly his pinning techniques and rivalries with wrestlers like Tony Ramos and Chris Dardanes.

Check out Shane Sparks’ interview with A.J. Schopp on Episode 37 of the Go Earn It Podcast.
 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast, where we bring
you stories each week of people who have battled through adversity,
overcame the obstacles, and earned their dream. You were born
for greatness and our mission is to bring you the
stories that will inspire you to dream big and go
earn it.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
And welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast. This is
episode thirty seven, joining us today. Three time ew WEL champion,
four time national qualifier, three time All American, one of
the best to do it in that top position. This
guy turned guys, He's stuck guys, AJ shop AJ, it
is great to see you. One of the best beards

(00:50):
in the last twenty years of CALS wrestling as well.
How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
That's good? That's going to be up there in the
top ranks with the beards, because there's been a lot
of tremendous beards out there that I've seen and had
to compete with.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
So, AJ, my first question for you, I'm a little
all over the board here, but my question is do
you have a favorite quote?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah? Actually, so I came from I came from a
lot of different clubs, and so one of the clubs
that I came from was was Young Guns, and that
was like one of the ones that I kind of
went went through a lot throughout junior, hid in high
school and was kind of more my staple club at
that point. But I had a shirt and I still
have it. Actually just all it the other day because
we just moved and got a house and bought a

(01:32):
house and stuff like that. So we've cleaning upper garage
for kids parties, Halloween part yourself like that. So the shirt,
it's a young Gun shirt and it says it has
green on it, which is one of my favorite colors,
and so it's got green and black and it has
a four leaf clovers and stuff, and it says the
harder I work, the luckier I get. And it's just
like it's it's just something that has always stuck with me.

(01:52):
And you know, people talk about like luck, but it's like,
I don't know, you make your own luck, Like, yeah,
sure people get lucky and you can have like there's
all always uh. I always say, there's always a slim
chance that even the person that doesn't do anything right
can win. It's a small small it's not it's not high,
but it's a small chance. But if I do on'tly
increase my chances. I better do more of the little
things that are going to add up to increase my chances.

(02:14):
So the harder I work, the luckier I get. So
I'd rather, I'd rather put that little extra work in
so I can make sure that I maybe I get lucky.
I don't care somebody says, you get whatever. You know
what I mean. I made that luck. I made that
luck happen. And I guess something else that uh you know,
and this is this goes for any restler that goes
out and just you know, whether they pin a guy
real quick or they you know, put a tech like

(02:35):
tech taller guy or whatever, and uh you know, they say,
oh man, that kid wasn't good. It's like, no, you
made them look like they weren't good, you know what
I mean, Like like you like it's it kind of
knocks a person that was really dominant in that situation.
It's like no, like you put that hard work to
make sure that you were able to go out there
and put them away quick, So you know, you made
them look like they aren't good, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
So yeah, expanding on that thought, ag, I'll give you
one that drives me. So let's say you and I
are wrestling each other and you know I'm beating you
by five or six and then you put me on
my back and pin me and I got caught. That's
the whole I mean, that's the wrestling is to catch
somebody in the position you take advantage of it. I

(03:17):
hate sure one for me AJ takes me zero to
sixty real quick. I mean, like you said before, well
he caught them.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, good, what happened.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It's the bottom line.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Winning it happened. Yeah. And it's about because because especially
in the sport like it takes a set to walk
out there and you know, put it on the line
and you know, go toe to toe with somebody else, right,
and so like obviously, yeah, there's a lot of sports
that are about controlling your own bodies. But this is
about controlling your own body and somebody else's body and
manipulating them enough that you're able to control them and
say here, you're going to do this. I'm gonna put

(03:49):
you here, I'm gonna slam you there, I'm gonna put
you here back there and make sure that you can't
move then get off of that. That's why I love
folks though, because it's very control based, and you know,
I like that stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
So absolutely, I love it. Talk to me about young guns,
I mean the impact young guns had on you and
and I mean that club obviously is loaded with hammers.
Who were some of the guys who rolled along with
at that time.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah, so kind of when when Jody had started and uh,
you know Central Pennsylvania and started this club, I was
kind of one of the first crews that came through.
But some of the kids that and there was he
he had two or three four different clubs at the
at you know locations at the time. I was more
of the Central PA. There was one over in Pittsburgh.
So the kind of guys I was with, like was
the Polma and Mike Topolma and Nick Roberts, Evan Henderson.

(04:35):
Evan Henderson was in our district that will come up
there quite about quite a bit, a lot of the
Forest Hills and that kind of crew, even like the
current court crew that that is they were like little
little pikes at that time, you know, real tiny kids,
you know, up up on a pull of bars and
stuff after practice and you know, yeah, but they were
like they were part of the little crew, but there
was it was this whole crew that was that was

(04:57):
there when we had started, and uh, it's just kind
of cool to you know, as I progressed through and graduated,
and then I came back and coached, you know, when
I was in college the teams of Virginia Beach with him,
and then obviously like I go back just staying here
every summer as much as I can, and uh, it's
just cool to have that connection with him. And I
always say, like, I just I have a lot of pride,

(05:18):
you know, from from the places I've been and coaches
I've been around, and uh, you know, being a uh
like I always say, like it's always cool. I was
an usher in Jody's wedding and uh, stuff like that,
Like guess it's cool, right and then coming from you know,
Edinburgh and the coach I had here, so it's just
like the place I feel like I was very privileged
to be around a lot of special people. And heck
even goes back as you know, even before Shrimp Matter

(05:41):
and Young Guns was you know a lot of the
connections that I have today. I did a lot of
like turto his home training center and the camps that
he had, So there's like a ton of connections from
the counselors and people that he had brought in. You
know that that honestly probably why I'm here today because
you know, he was teammates with when and uh, you know,

(06:02):
a lot of the Edinburgh wrestlers had came to to
work counselors and you know, junior counselors and stuff like that.
So I just got connected with them and I got
to see the program. Because obviously people that are inrestled
understand this program, but you know, when you get to
get to know a little more about the history of it,
you're like, holy smokes, like that's cool. I want to
be a part of that. But yeah, with with young guys,
it was it was cool to be a part of

(06:22):
that club and and a lot of the hammers and
obviously like it's just continually racking out, you know people,
it's just a well oiled machine that and he has
an awesome facility now six months and you know, places
to sleep and hang out and theater and stuff like that.
It's just it's it's a really cool place. And uh,
just being a part of a club like that was
was special, not not not just like the fact that

(06:45):
there were partners right, like that's awesome, you know, not
the fact that there was just like the coaching side,
the technical side of learning news, but also the talks
about you know, being a good person and you know,
I felt like when I came through that club and
then being able to see the kids that come out
of it for the most part, if you came out

(07:05):
of that club and you were like kind of no,
I don't want to say born and raised in the club,
but you spend a good amount of time in that club,
like most likely you're a good person, and that's kind
of that was something that you know that I you know,
just uh that shoot help to me as a coach,
you know, for for him and uh, you know, it
was very similar to me and at uh you know,

(07:26):
the Edinburgh when I chose here, and you know, kind
of the coaching style that I like to emulate, you
know what I mean to be a little lighter, right,
a little light hearted and obviously when it's time to
get serious, it's time to get serious. But also like
you know, it's it's it's nice to have fun and
enjoy the stuff and obviously it's like you're just living
breathing doing it with camps and club and uh, you know,

(07:47):
you're coaching. It's just like you have to enjoy it,
you know what I mean. So it's uh, I feel
like it'd be very hard to be in the sport
if you're like, you know, like kind of wound up
a little bit. I just and and again, there's a
time in a play for that, for sure. And I
like getting like that when I'm when I'm out there
competing and kind of your zone out and you're like,
I don't even know what the heck happened. I don't
know why I did that, but you just just getting

(08:08):
a zone. But then there's the downside, you know, I mean,
got to be able to relax a little bit. And
that's just the coaching style that I've been around a
lot that I can appreciate and respect and one of
the things that I connect with, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
So what was the recruiting process like for you out
of high school and ultimately why was Edinburgh the right
fit for a j Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
I felt like I was a little under the radar
thro out of high school, which I think looking back
now and seeing as you know how college coaches recruit.
It's like I feel like I would have been, you know,
maybe hit up a little more, but who knows. I
was you know, a second, fifth, second, and then first
in high school and I feel like I've placed steadily
at the national tournaments like Virginia Beach nhscas like second

(08:53):
at freshman nationals and fifth. It's something like that, like,
so just continue to play in high and uh, I
never want anything. So maybe that was, you know, but
I felt like that's what inside of me kept me
a little more hungrier than a lot of people because
I didn't win much in high school. I think the
only thing I really want was a state title as
a senior, but that was after I had signed and everything.

(09:13):
So but to be like the underdog, and for me,
this place seemed like a place where they were continually producing.
It was my style of kind of living, like kind
of low key, not too much crazy stuff going on,

(09:35):
which honestly, as a coach and as a coach recruiting
and talking to parents like this is the place to
be in terms that when you're a student athlete, there
is a lot on your plate, Like you have a
really really full plate NonStop with your academics in your athletics,
if you want to be good, you know what I mean,

(09:56):
if you want to be good and you want to
get a good degree, and you know, and you know,
put the time in and get good grades, like you
have to be committed to the most part two of
those things, and so you can go full full fledge
into those and then you also have the there's the
whole triangle with social, academic and athletic, and it's like,
for the most part, you can only pick two to
be if you want to be really good at two.

(10:17):
You can't be really good at all three, right, you
can't be a social butterfly. And then you know, have
so much time to be excellent all three and you
would have to be a masterpiece of a person to
be able to be excellent health three, which I'm sure
there are people that are like that, but most people
are not right and so most of us average people
have to be able to pick her up, pick the
two sides that we want. And I felt like there

(10:39):
was a there wasn't any distractions here, and I felt
like that was that was awesome for me, and not
that I was a crazy you know, trying to go
out and party or anything. If anything, I like fishing
and playing some video games, right, But but again, to
be able to not have the choice, to be able
to go out and get crazy and go enjoy professional

(10:59):
sports and go down to the city and go to
all these parties, And it's just there's the possibility that
if you happen to surround yourself with kids that might
be like that, or you kind of get shifted towards
those guys, gravitated towards those people, you might end up
doing that stuff, and then you get pulled away from
the things that are important, which are your academics and

(11:19):
your athletics at this point in your life. And so
I just felt like I made a mature choice to
be like, hey, like this place looks fun. That place
looks fun, but this place looks like where I can
win and do really well and be a part of
something special. And honestly, I'm obviously glad I chose a
place like this because there's there's a lot of pride
coming from here, not just honestly, like I don't even

(11:40):
think about the individual all American statuses that I've been
able to capture. It's more of like this big old
trophy that's three four feet from me, right here in
front of me, this big team trophy that you know,
and then being back to the coach, it's like, hey, look, guys,
like when I'm in this urments right here, I can say, hey,
we've done it. We've done it here right And it's

(12:01):
not just like obviously we were we're We've been pretty
solid and there's been a ton of teams before that
and honestly, the reason we have this is because of
the teams that were before me. So it's not like
I don't I don't try to take all the credit
for you know, getting the team trophy me or my
team alone is more of all the people that came
before me. It was like, Wow, those guys did it there.

(12:21):
I want to go be like those guys. I want
to I want to go beat up on a you know,
a top ten team. And then just being like people
are like, who the heck are those guys, and that's like, oh,
I like those guys. Those those guys are tough. And
there's a lot of people that in wrestling world understand
who Edinburgh Wrestling is. So it's uh, it's a it's
a it's a big pride to be a part of,
you know, something like this, and and yeah, I chose

(12:43):
that because of you know, the continual progress, the continual
uh you know, production of of of student athletes that
And again I knew a lot of them because of
the camps that I've done. Like I said, I was
a part of like the Turcho camps growing up and
multiple other as well. But like I got connected to
those guys because I got to know them, Like, hey,

(13:05):
there's some good people and honestly a lot of them
are still into coach and like like Alex Sampson is
the head coach of Maryland. He was he was there
at camps my so my teammates when I was in college,
or you know, Eric Morrill, they were there. Flynn was
Trudeau's roommate. He came up and you know, did some
clinics for you know, and so I got to know

(13:25):
those people because of that. And that's why And I said, like,
I love doing clinics as well, because there's so many times,
you know, where I might not know the kid, you know,
at the moment when they're ten years old, twelve years old,
but you know, six years, seven years down the line,
when I'm talking to him and recruitment like, hey, look
at this this look at this picture. I'm ten years oldier,
I got a picture with you, you know, you signed
my Like so it's like that is so cool because

(13:48):
you know, and obviously if they're they're a big dog
at that time and they've been doing well and it's like,
oh yeah, like I actually remember you, like you you
you know. So it's it's really cool to kind of
just have that connection like that with with those student
athletes like that.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
So if you did not go to Edinburgh, where would
you have gone?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Well, my my final decision came down the I like, honestly,
I like to think back and like where else was
I really looking at? My final too was pitt in Edinburgh.
And then it's just for me, it was just again
like big city and kind of small town. I'm a
small town. I graduate with ninety kids. So it's like
anytime I go around the city, it's like, wow, this
is cool, and it's like, all right, give me away

(14:25):
from here. Like it's just it's a it's a little much,
you know, and so to live in that would be
would be rough. And again it's people have their own flavors,
you know what. I mean, people like their own their
own styles and it's just just not my style. And
so that's what kind of the you know, and not
not that you can't be from that and like that
and come here and and not enjoy this, because honestly,
I've I've heard a lot of people that are from

(14:47):
cities and they moved away and they're like, man, that's that.
It's so much better. Like so there's so much less traffic,
so much less to deal with, so much less people
that the possibilities of just things happening. It's just it's
just a uh, you know, simpler, simpler lifestyle that if
you want to do your own thing and you know,
like you just kind of make your own happiness in
that way, which is which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
So talking about that team trophy that was twenty fifteen, correct,
and twenty fifteen that was an interesting season for you,
an interesting tournament. I mean, I I love to talk
about these stories and I mean and fortunate to talk
to a lot of you guys and digging your stories
a little bit, I mean, doing some research on twenty fifteen.

(15:31):
You go in as the nine seed, you get beat
in the first round, You win seven matches, straight to
take third, which to me, that accomplishment is gosh, I
mean that is I mean that is some big time courage.
So you're dealing with the disappointments your final ride, not
getting what you wanted individually, but coming through for your

(15:54):
team and getting that third place trophy, Like what was?

Speaker 3 (15:58):
What was?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
I mean, take me back to twenty fifteen in those
few days in March and the different emotions because you
got the whole gamut.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah. So I'll actually go back a little farther. I'll
go back to probably twenty ten, twenty eleven when me
and Mitchellport were roommates a couple of hundred yards that
way and Towers, and I remember like sitting in our
dormer and just talking about goals and things that we
wanted to achieve here and which is kind of like

(16:27):
cool and thinking about like at the chills, like like man,
like we were talking about we wanted to pack Macomfield House,
which is where we compete right upstairs. We wanted to
win you know, national titles, like as individual and as
a team. And again like these are like young eighteen
year old kids sitting in the dorm room and being
like hey, like this is stuff we want to do,

(16:48):
and it's just like obviously from the outside perspective, which
again I felt like my whole life, you know, I
felt like I was like the underdog and people doubted me,
which again I kind of enjoyed because well, you don't
enjoy it, but yeah, you use it to fuel, you
know what I mean, you use it for fuel. But
then the other the other thing, the third thing was
not even wrestling, well kind of wrestling involved, but it

(17:10):
was more just like the outlook on the team was like, hey, like,
don't hang around the wrestlers, you know what I mean,
to get away from them people. I I remember, honestly
there's a coach that told their team like, hey, don't
hang around the wrestlers, and I was like, I took
that to heart. I was like, screw that, Like I
was not. I was not cool with that, and uh,
I just want one of our The third goal was
the change of perspective of what other people had on

(17:32):
the wrestling team and just about being like good people
and and I think you know me and Port and
there's there's several other guys that were you know, captains
and leaders and stepped up on a team. We had,
we had a lot of with a lot of really
uh quality people and hard workers or our team. Obviously
you don't you don't achieve a lot without that. But
one things that we had talked about, like I said,

(17:53):
were those three and so definitely changed the outlook of
the team. You know, people people enjoyed and around us.
I felt like as as as we got older and
upperclassmen and kind of change, you know, got rid of
the bad eggs on the team. And again, like I
talk a lot about like being like like a herd
mentality kind of thing, where if you have a lot
of good people and you're going to have some some

(18:15):
people that are above and beyond doing well above, way ahead,
trying to pull the pack with them, then there's going
to be a couple of stragglers in the back. But
if half of that people are in the backside and
then this size up here, it's just going to be
a lot harder for everyone to go a little faster.
But if the whole packs up here doing the right
thing and a couple of stragglers are back there, yeah,
there might be a couple of guys that pull them along,

(18:35):
but those guys most likely are going to leave because
they're not doing what everyone else is doing. So the
bad eggs are going to leave. They're not they're not
a part of it. And the same thing can work
on the opposite side. There's a lot of bad eggs,
and there's a couple, only a couple of guys up here.
Those guys are like, I don't like this, I don't
feel connected. Nobody's doing the right.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Things like I am.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
And so the more good people you have doing the
right things, the bad eggs will lead because they're or
they'll jump on ship, they'll say all right, let's go,
I'll buy in, because they're not going to be around
us people that are doing the right things, and so
they'll end up leaving. And honestly, we can appreciate that.
If you know, if you're not gonna do the right things,
we don't want you around. If you don't want to
be a part of something special and and do the

(19:12):
right things, and then uh, then we don't want you.
But but yeah, and then so change the perspective. We
we got Maccomfield House several times, and probably one of
the funnest one was it sounds weird that it was fun,
but we didn't come on with a win, but just
start dual with Iowa. When they were in town, it
was like number I don't even know it was top five.
I think matchup there might have been number one verse

(19:33):
three or one verse four or two verse three whatever,
and uh, just a placeless, patched standing room only. I
still have people to this day talking about like that
that duel meet as a whole, and how like there's
just so many people there and it's just enjoy a
joy to see that. And then obviously that the team.
We didn't win a national title individually, which we definitely wanted,

(19:57):
but as a whole, collectively, none of none of us
a chieved their goals of being a national champ. But
collectively as a team, you know the guys that went
to NCAS and then the four All Americans that year,
and I think it's it's crazy too. I think we
only had six ncaight qualifiers that year, which is kind
of wow because people are like, oh, you guys probably
had ten qualifiers that year, right, and it's like, no,
we only took six, you know what I mean? And

(20:18):
we still got third as a team, so we just
their marginal air was very slim. So if I tucked
it in and packed my bags and went home after
that first match, like there's no way we're getting a
trophy like that. And uh so it it took everyone, right,
and you know, Vic Avery was in the Semis. They've
Habit was in the Semis. Mittroport was in the Semis.
Mitchell and Habit made the finals and Vic lost the

(20:39):
crazy super closed match that gave Dean basically had almost
had a takedown, had an ankle lost it just crazy match, right,
and so but together, yeah, it's it's uh it's cool
that collectively we're able to grab that that team trophy
right there and and bring it home for the team
and and then now like for the like and it's
cool like here in some of the past coaches like

(21:01):
Bruce Bumgardner, who's right up there, past coach and obviously
a d he's still around. He was in last week
talking with our guys, and Gary A. Serena was in
last week or yesterday actually talking with our guys, just
past coaches coming back in saying hey, like like we
can do this, Like I want you guys to make
sure you have that pride in this and just like
it's just cool hearing old stories from those guys and

(21:22):
having the young guys connect with with the people that
they might not know yet but they're soon going to
be a part of this, you know, this whole family
of Edinburgh wrestling, which is really cool when you travel
places and you've seen it, everyone has seen it that
that's been around. Like, even if you're not an Edinburgh person,
you'll find a lot of non Edinburgh people in that
crew just because they just it's just cool. It's cool
to be around that the like the the our type

(21:44):
of people. I guess I don't know what that exactly means,
but it's a it's a fun crew. But yet it's
but uh, what was your question? What was your question
getting into that again?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know what from an individual standpoint, losing in the
first round, I mean, what do you remember from that
and what what was said to you? What was the
you know, what was the mindset for you at that time,
because that had to be that had to be pretty devastating,
I would.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Think, yeah, for sure, and so so those goals I
was talking about, right, and so coming into that senior year,
we're like, there's there's four of us for sure that
year that had for sure obviously in our eyes were
very biased. But we had four possible national champs that year. Uh,
and obviously like it's kind of comes to fruition too,
like like I you know, I had, I had my chances.

(22:34):
I had beaten both guys that were in the finals
my year, Mitchell had Steveer and definitely Mitchell Mitchell is
a stud and he was Honestly, Zane Rutherford's last loss
in college was was to Mitchell. Like people, I feel
like he doesn't get the credit that he deserves. He
was the boss. Yeah, he was pretty good. Uh, and
the habit had had had a close match with how

(22:55):
to show it, I think I don't know if it
was overtime or it was just a one takedown match
and vic A, like I said, he was a takedown
away from being Dean who gave Dean who ended up
winning that year, and it was like an overtime match
that they had. So it's just crazy that there's the
chance for us to get that. But U but yeah,
after after my my first loss, it was like, I
don't know, I'm a very forward thinker. So it's like

(23:17):
I used to like in matches be the complete opposite,
Like I would get taken down once and I'd start
crying because I'm like, oh no, I'm gonna lose. I
shouldn't have done this, like oh like and then I
don't know what clicked, but like it's just a match,
and you know, anytime there's time left on a clock,
there's time left to wrestle and score and win. So
it's I've always stayed super well collected. And then uh,

(23:39):
there's even point in matches where it'd be like, you know,
ten seconds left and I'd be good, but then two
seconds stuff. Then then I'd start mall in my eyes.
When I was little, right, so I got to the
point of like, hey, I know there's a chance and
then all of a sudden there's not a chance anymore.
And h but but yeah, as I got older, I
realized like like all right, so as I'm as I'm
losing matches, like it's it's fine, I just got to

(23:59):
go back to work and it's just wrestling, you know.
I mean, it's it's just wrestling, right, Which if you
take it like that, obviously nobody wants to lose. I'm
a super competitive guy, and if anyone knows me, like,
I get mad if I'm losing to Madden against my
little brother, you know what I mean, Like to this day,
I'm still gonna get super mad and I'm I'm gonna
I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna i'm gonna ask people,

(24:20):
I'm gonna go on YouTube. I'm gonna find a way
to beat him next time, and I'm gonna say, give
me an extra shot, Like I just, I just I
just want to compete and be better. I guess so.
Uh and that that that ultra competitiveness of me is
like kind of brings out the side of Okay, well
I lost, Okay, Well what can I do next? Like
I'm never gonna pack in a bag, like I'll take

(24:41):
ten losses in a row, but I'm gonna keep coming
back until I get that win. I'm gonna keep if
you give me, if you give me a chance, uh,
then then there's a you know then then I'm good
with that. Like that's all I need. To give me
a chance, Like, give me, give me a fighting chance.
I'm up. I'm gonna put it out there. But yeah,
my next math was was pretty close. I think it
was like a four to two win over Jeff Alexander,

(25:02):
a kid who kind of grown up. I think he
was from Maryland. Uh. And then uh after that, it
was it was actually kind of funny, uh Flynn again
in that lighthearted way. Uh, you know that coaching style
that I can appreciate, and like it was like, just
go pin a guy, Like like what are you doing?
Just go and get a pin? And actually I went
out and I append the dude in the tilt. It
was like why didn't I actually joked him. I was like,

(25:23):
why didn't you tell me that my first match, Like
like why didn't you tell me just go pindle them?
Like it would have been so much easier, you know
what I mean? But uh, and then and then it
was just rolling. But in my mind kind of I
like knowing myself that I had to get myself out
of funk because obviously it was like you get like
it's almost like you get like punched in a face
in a random moment, like like that was not part

(25:43):
of the plan, you know what I mean. That was
not part of the plane to go out there and
get that take that first loss. And so I was
like like, like what do I do with my hands?
Like I you know, it's just like that awkwards. I
don't know, like all right, So I would go back
to the drawing board, and I remember putting on that
two songs and I talked to to say, like I
had two songs I've played. It was Uptown Funk by
Bruno Mars and the only way I know by Jason Alden,

(26:04):
it's just and Uptown Funk is more just like get
you out of that funk, like just like just this
up aty, you know, bouncing just you know, I'm good,
you know what I mean. And then the only way
I know is just it's just like a country song
talking about the only way I know full crottle, wide open,
like like just go like that's the only way I
know is just to put the pedals to the metal

(26:24):
and just go like that's it, Like I don't know
any other way. And it sucks as an older person
now as I'm working out and I'm kind of lower
thirties right now, if I don't lift for a while
and I go back and lift, I'm probably gonna get
hurt because I go balls to the wall and try
to lift as much as I can and try to compete,
and it's like you can't do that, idiot, Like you
gotta go in slowly right. So uh but that's but

(26:46):
that's just like the inner me and I go back
and tell my wife's like, oh, yeah, I did this,
and she's like, all right, well use that competitiveness to
say that, oh you can do it slowly Like I'm like,
you're right, but like it's just hard to do that
in the moment. So uh but yeah, I would say
a lot of that came from just being that that competitive,
you know, like like I don't care, like if you

(27:08):
beat me twenty times, like I'm still going to come
back swinging for the for the twenty first one and uh,
you know, thinking thinking that I can win it just
as much as I could if I if I stepped
on you know, if I beat you twenty times in
a row, Like it's just like I there's a chance,
Like there's there's a chance, and I'm a fight for it.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
So what's the most impactful conversation you've ever had with
coach Flinn?

Speaker 3 (27:31):
No, there's there's a lot there. There. There's been plenty,
and a lot of them are just kind of referencing
to situations and uh, I there's a lot when you know,
kind of something similar to what I was just talking about.
But and uh, this is something I actually tell a lot,
because when you have competitive people in the room, and

(27:52):
there's usually people that aren't as competitive, the people that
are ultra competitive are usually gawking at the people that
are not like them, and they're trying to make them
come up to their level and trying to get them
to compete, and sometimes they end up getting so tired
from competing so hard that people that weren't training super
hard end up winning something and they're like, ah, I

(28:14):
got you, and the person just gets so mad. They're
like the perfect example of the sprints post practice, like
doing sprints, doing something really hard post practice. I call
it the zombie round at the very end, because as
you as someone who works really hard and wins the
first let's say we're doing ten, I win the first five.
Once I get to five, I'm starting to get tired

(28:35):
and I just can't go any harder. Six, I'm losing. Seven,
I'm doing worse. Eight I try to get back up there.
And once I'm at seven and eight, there's usually one
or two people that know that we only have two
or three left, and they've been saving and all of
a sudden, they just crush everybody and I call it
the zombie rounds because people that just they they were

(28:56):
dead and then all of a sudden they came alive
at the end. Just makes me so mad because I'm like,
I'm not that I want to win from the beginning
and so I'm doing that and again I'm I'm the
competitive person like, oh, you guys can't do this now,
like like all of a sudden, here comes zombies. Let's go, guys,
come on, and Flynn goes win it anyways, and I'm like,

(29:17):
you're right, I'll just do it anyways and go and
I probably won the next two, you know, But it
was just that like but again, that's that competitiveness in me,
Like my my body was kind of like you know,
or my mind was like, hey, you're getting tired, like
you've done so many and then all of a sudden,

(29:37):
that competitiveness and again understanding who I am, like hey
when anyways, and it was like it kind of pulled
that inner like hey, go get it, like let's go
like gre uh you know, grow saying go get it.
You know what I mean. It's it's it's you're tired, okay,
but so is everyone else and there is gonna people
that you know aren't gonna wrestle a whole match, and
they're gonna wait, they're gonna wait, they're gonna stall, and
then all of a Suddeny're gonna go and try to

(29:58):
get one take DOWNE and those of the most boring wrestlers,
Like it's I hate that. I it's very hard to
coach that. I try. I try to get away from
that as much as I can because it's boring. It's
hard to win. It's hard to be consistent like that.
It's hard to be uh you know, it's hard to
be good like that. Like you you can be talented,
but you probably won't your your consistency level won't be

(30:19):
won't be high because your your margin of error is
very slim. So uh but yeah, that's that was one
of the ones that have has has stuck with me
and it's like, hey, like that's fine winning anyways. And
I was like, oh, you're right, but you know what
I mean. And so because I was always like I
have a little bit of a mouth a man, especially
when you get competitive and you get a bunch of
people like it gets going. So but yeah, that's that's

(30:40):
the one thing that that stood out with me. And
that's a kind of funny story too.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
How did you approach the mental side and how did
the mental side change for you during the course of
your career as you matured and developed, Like what did
you come to learn about the mental game in this sport?
I know it's the billion dollar question.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't do anything, and I wish
I did do more things mentally, but I was just
all like I did it, I would say, like on
a personal levels, like I did it like individually just myself,
like just kind of and kind of like the inner
voice in my head just kind of constantly talking about
it and being aware of how important the mental side

(31:22):
of wrestling and the mental side is competing and just
the mental side altogether is just super important. And uh,
how I've always said the brain is such a powerful thing.
And and just like honestly, like your your body can
put yourself in so many crazy situations. A really powerful
like reference for wrestlers is you know a lot of

(31:43):
wrestlers don't wait the right way, so they weigh in
or they're they're about the way in and they feel
like absolute crafts, right and and let's say let's say
we're we're two hours out for weighing, and you know,
I have I have to get I have to get
a pound or two off. And I start working my
weight down and obviously I'm tired, I'm probably a little dehydrated,

(32:04):
my weights down. I haven't ate much in the day,
and uh, and again this this is wrestler that's not
doing things right. But my, my, my, the hydrating my
weights down and I step off the step off the
treadmill after doing you know, a half hour, and I
step on a scale thinking I lost my weight and

(32:25):
I'm still found over and it's like it's it's just
such a defeating like feeling knowing that you have to
put your sweats back on, go back to work, do
more running, do more this, do more that? All right,
but but what happened to my step off that? And
I'm a'm pout under You're like, oh, I'm good, Like
let's go, Like you just get so happy in that moment.
It's just and it's just it's a switch up here.
It's nothing physical about you. It's changed. And honestly, you

(32:49):
probably should feel worse if your weights down, but you
feel better because the mental side things right and the
same thing. As soon as I step on the scale,
you might feel at that moment like absolute crap. As
soon as you step on a scale and it say
you're good, you set off, You're like, man, I had great,
Like I can run through a house right now, and
I can go compete I could, you know, And so
it's it's just it's just how how powerful your mind
is in a current situation. I talk a lot with

(33:11):
our wrestlers about, you know, making sure that kind of
present yourself in a in a fresh way, because that
just you know, and that's something that I learned here
as as a wrestler as well. Is just like like
say we're riding in air dne right, I should be er,
but like that all this error in my face and
it is like extra energy that I could do that
same type of energy with a fresh, relaxed face that

(33:33):
I'm breathing and that you know, I'm naturally kind of
making sure I'm getting my oxygen instead those in my
breath and all this stuff like I don't have to
do all that. I can go just as harder, harder
because and sustainable because I'm breathing and relax my body
and ways that you know, in putting the right energy
in the right spots, and so it's just about you know,
say we're done with practice and maybe we're doing some

(33:55):
stance of motion for conditioning or you know, and then
everyone gets done and they're kind of bent over, right,
And how important obviously the mental side of things, but
also the confidence. Right when you're wrestling and I'm out
there and say it's me versu you, and I'm like, man,
you're the number one and I'm the number twenty, I
might not feel like I can shoot on you if
I'm not a confident wrestler, and so I don't shoot right.

(34:16):
But if I come out with confidence and you're standing
up and you're baiting me with that leg, if I'm
confident to go out and take it. If I'm hesitating,
I might touch it and then like and then obviously
hesitation is a killer there, right. So confidence is especially huge, huge,
you know, mental mental game, and in wrestling, that's super important.

(34:37):
And so you know a lot of a lot of
people present that and want to talk about it with
their wrestlers. Just about making sure that you're you know,
your first factor to the center and you're not showing
weakness and stuff. Like that. But it's like just look fresh,
you know, just stay relaxed, you know, stay in the
moment and thinking of your game plan and what what's
what's important to you at that moment. But to me,
it's a lot with the wrestler is just about saying fresh,

(34:57):
you know what I mean. But yeah, I wish I
wish I did a little more mental training maybe meditation
and and some of that stuff to help help control
breathing more. But I did it individually. Again, I would
throughout my career one of the things I just wish
I would have asked for a little more help, you
know what I mean, just in whatever way. Uh So
that's that's the one thing that I always tell all
our guys, like hey, like open up talk with us,

(35:19):
talk with people, ask questions, ask enough for classmen, you know,
make sure you're connecting with people to understand because it's
it's it's hard enough to do it by yourself, and
I guarantee you there's more people on the team that
are having problems like you, you know what I mean. So,
so make sure you're opening up about you know, whatever
it is that you know you want to you want
to improve on. So it's this is important to you,
you know, So.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
What match in your career taught you the most?

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Mm hm oh that's a tough one, because I because
because I like to I'm a I'm a I'm a
mimby take the easy answer and just say, like honestly,
like a lot of them. Because and this is another
thing I talk with a lot of my wrestlers, Like
a lot of wrestlers lose confidence throughout matches. And the
reason they lose confidence obviously is because they think the
other guy is better than them at that moment, right

(36:05):
in whatever situation. Again, let's say, hey this, I wrestle you.
I take a shot, you straw, I don't get it.
Stay'll made back up? I shoot you strawl, I don't
get it. Third time, I'm like, I don't know if
I shouldn't do that, you know what I mean? And
so instead of thinking and again because hey I miss
that up, you're better than me. You gotta sprawl your faster,
your heavy hips like it's it's it's not about you,

(36:26):
And I don't want to make it about you. Want
to make it about me. I want to make it like, hey,
I made a mistake. So in a match, I don't
want you going, oh, like I'm not good and the
other guy's better when you say no, I'm good. I
just made a mistake, because if you're better than me,
I can't. I can't fix that. But if I made
a mistake, I can go fix it, you know what
I mean. So I can fix my setup, I can

(36:47):
fix my speed, I can make you know I can.
I can work on certain things. But again, it's all
about the mental side of things and how you approach it.
If I if I'm shooting on you, oh, I don't
know if I can take you down like yours. Your
scrambling too good, your hips are too strong, You're this
that I don't want to talk about. You want to
talk about myself, my my You know my setups aren't
aren't good yet, you know what I mean. Obviously, it's

(37:09):
again it's the wording of how you say things like, hey,
I'm just not there yet. I did you know? I
need to work on that. I made a mistake, so
I can fix I go back and next time I
do it, You're You're not gonna s frollow me. I'm
going to get a better setup. So and again, in
the moment, in the match. Even in the match, you
can you can make in match adjustments like you Okay,
well I'll get a better set up next time. You know,
It's fine, you know. And and again, in that way,

(37:29):
it's going to allow me to still, you know, keep
the confidence and keep coming at you in a way
that shows that, hey, like I'm worthy of the stake.
I'm definitely capable of achieving it and getting you know,
getting it.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
So I want to ask you about Matt Ramos when
you were at Purdue. I mean, you played an instrumental
part in one of the biggest upsets college wrestling history.
What what was that like being a part of that
whole deal? What are you reading in that tournament?

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, no, it was it was special. It's like it's
it's just, uh, you know, as a program, you just
you just wait for your moments, right like you know,
a lot of a lot of programs have their moments
or breakthroughs, and uh, it was it was cool to
be a part of that because it's like and again
it just shows like the mental side of things, and
and you know he had done a good job with
the mental side and the mental approach to it. You know,

(38:23):
it's like I don't care who he is. You know,
I'm gonna just go fight it, you know, and you
know he's he's definitely capable of you know, talking about Spencer,
he's capable of doing a lot of really good things,
you know what I mean. That's that's there's no doubt
about that. But you also got to attack your side
of like hey like like yes, like And again this
this kind of brings me back to like, uh, you

(38:44):
know some some matches of micro it's like I don't
care what you're capable of. And specifically it was me.
I was a freshman wrestling a red shirt and guy
wrestling a fifth year senior, the starter, Eric Morrill. This
dude beat me up every day in practice, every day
in practice, and I had to wrest him at the scuffle,
And uh, I went into that match saying, I'm probably
gonna lose, honestly because he beats me up every day

(39:05):
in practice, but I know there's a chance, so I'm
gonna fight, you know what I mean. And that's and
that's that's all that matters, you know what I mean.
Like it doesn't necessarily sound fully confident, but in a
in a certain way, it's like you have to be reality,
like you have to be you have to yeah, you know,
have reality a little bit. You have to be real
with your thoughts too, like like there's there's a fighting
chance like I if you know, if I get taken

(39:26):
down one hundred times, like sure like that, I'm probably
gonna get taken out one more time. But but there's
a chance that I'm gonna get that next one, you know.
And then that's where it's just about giving yourself a chance,
giving yourself an opportunity and uh to work on the
mental side of things, saying like yeah, okay, well I
I you know, And what's funny about him is like
I said, like he uh, he had several dreams before

(39:47):
that about hey, like I I pinned him and I said,
like save it, don't do it at conference. Let's let's
wait till let's wait till the big show. And it's
just funny how that how that happened, you know, it
came to fruition with you know, getting the fall with
all last like second or two and and uh yeah,
it's it's it's just cool to be a part of
any any cool moments, right like you know, even being

(40:07):
back at you know, South dakost State with you know,
some of their first couple. Uh, I don't know if
it was first couple of divisions. I think it was
their first couple of division Division one All Americans with
gross and at thirty three and then house Coacher at
one forty nine, like both of those guys in that year.
Like it was it was just really both of them
really good on on top. Two both of them are
really good on top with with their terms and stuff.

(40:29):
So yeah, it's just it's just fun to be a
part of that stuff and seeing these guys like hit
that moment, you know, hit that hit that moment of
like oh wow, like I am capable, I am, I
am possible you know, uh of having a capable of
achieving a lot, you know what I mean. You know,
So it's like write and writing your own story and
uh and again it's like you're going to get at
the smaller schools, You're going to get counted out a lot,

(40:50):
and it's fun to me, it's like fun to use
that as energy to fuel to go out and uh
prove people wrong and uh you know and again no,
in a way like that's my main goal is to
prove people wrong. But like that's a part of the fund.
You know, that's a part of the fund of Like hey,
like don't believe me, just watch you know what I mean? Like, yeah,
so that's that goes back to the uptown funk.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
So you aj were a beast on top, not boring,
I mean you were a guy on top that you
were a pinner, Like describe that mentality of the importance
of your work on top, I mean taking somebody's soul
on top.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
So yeah, it's just a lot of it started in
high school. You know, I wanted to give myself, well,
it started in high school and continue through college because
I wanted to give myself, my team, or my team
the best chance to win at any moment. So obviously,
unless I'm getting a forfeit, the next most possible point

(41:53):
that I can get for my team is a pin
tech balls are fun. It gives her wrestling. It kind
of proves dumpons as well. But again it doesn't. It
doesn't give yourself, give give your team the most points.
And so in a dual meat or even tournaments on
obviously you get the most points that way. If you
want to help your team out the most, that that's
what you got. To do, you know, straight up, and

(42:13):
so I I obviously that was something that I that
I strived for and I enjoyed being different a little
bit and doing things that you know, not a lot
of like a lot of people were like, let's cut
home and get it's like no, like, let's let's let's
find a way to make it work on top. And
I started working that stuff from from high school and
honestly right before high school with like junior high, I
just tried to learn how to you know, be different

(42:37):
any I you know, I would say it even started
slightly before that. Most people start on you know, uh,
grabbing their left opponent's elbow on top, and I remember
being younger, and this is kind of it's kind of
funny because it comes from like to try to be
different side. I hated when people started on my right side.
I was like, I don't know how to do a
switch and a stand up and that as well on

(42:58):
that side. Obviously, as you get older, it's it's so
easy on on bottom with both sides. But as a
young kid, I'm like, I hated that, so like, I
don't want to do what other people are doing when
they start on the other side. I want to make
kids have a hard time because when we're drilling, they're
like throw it on. So I'm like, no, I'm going
on this side. Like that's you know, I'm going to
make it harder on you. And so it was that

(43:18):
was something I probably was the start of it a
little bit, and then just going throughout high school and
and there was a couple of pin records in high
school that I was like, I want to I want
to go get that, you know, I want to own
ane to pass that. And the same thing in college
there was a pin record here and I wanted to
go beat that as well. And it's fun. It's fun.
It's something that you know, even as in a dual

(43:39):
meat setting, it's I enjoy so much being like one
of the first couple of matches, right, and then even
more so obviously when you get to get a pin.
But like at that moment, like you can sit back
and relax and like say, hey, I did as much
as I could for my team, Like I'm gonna just
relax now. Like obviously you want your team to win
and do well, but like at that moment, it's like, hey,
let's do the most my team, and and and and

(44:01):
that's it's huge and call it wrestling a lot, like
there's not a lot of bonus points that that get scored.
I think you're going to see that trend going up
now with three point takedowns and four point back points
and that would have been fun to be a be
a part of one left wipe and uh one more
more point to it. So it's just a double double
in it there. So but yeah, just about being different

(44:24):
and trying to trying to help your team in the
most way. And so I think I I get a
lot of credit for like Tilts, but the cradles is
what I put a lot of people away with, which
was you know, kind of made it, made it. They
worked really well together.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
So you are the all time pin leader at Edinburgh,
I believe. Correct, Yeah, okay, you have a most memorable pin.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Honestly, some of some of the pins that I had
in Tilts were fun because you don't you don't get
those so like there's just some of those ones that
when you just you happen to pin somebody until like
those I and I again I didn't often see enough.
It was like, yeah, like let's go like and by
I'd clapp and Gellow smile and like kind of just
like giddy when you know you pin somebody in the
tod do you get because if it doesn't happen often,

(45:06):
I would get a couple of those a year, just
you know, as many tilts, doing a lot of tilts.
But uh, I would say, uh, there was all all
the ones on the backside at NCAA is. Honestly, those
were those were really fun and uh being from Central
p A, Uh, I think my blood realm the those

(45:26):
Semis uh versus. So I guess Camillo in the in
the in the blood round, and then I think I
had one more match and then in the Concis I
had Country Semis at gold on which was like there's
just any of those pins on the backside like they're
they're just they're fun. And obviously the blood round because
I would say that that one probably showed out a lot,

(45:47):
just you know, and he was I think the next
year two years Afaid that was in the national finals.
Like that that dude was stuff. D Camillo George Camilla, Yeah, yeah,
he was strong. He grabbed my hand and I honestly
I didn't even try to get it away because his
grip and I It was just one of those things
I remember hearing from my teammate. I think he was

(46:08):
Dave Habitt was teammates with him or something like that
for a while. But he grabbed my hand and I
didn't even want to try to get it free, like
his grip like and I think I have a strong grip,
and I was like, I'm not even gonna fight that
risk and I'm not. You can have it at yours now,
Like it was just I remember that that one thing
about the match. But yeah, it was fun because I
remember on the backside like and again, I don't you
don't want to look at the brackets. You don't want

(46:28):
to see who you have. And but it's like the
one thing I looked at is I needed four matches
to make sure that I'm at least in all American
like at that moment, like that was the one thing
that did go through my mind after I had that
first loss. It was like crap, like I gotta have
seven wins to just to get third, but I but
I still need four just even place like so I
you know, like that that was just I just didn't
want to not place like that. That would have been horrible.

(46:50):
You know, there's been a lot of those, a lot
of those people, uh you know, senior year that end
not placing after you know, placing several times before that,
and so I just that was the one thing. And
again it's like you don't want to think about those stuff,
like that's something I want to try to get that
thought out of my head and just go one match
at a time. But we're humans, you know, I mean,
we're human and that stuff, that's those thoughts creeping there.

(47:10):
So and again to be aware like, hey, like I
shouldn't be thinking of this, but I am, you know
what I mean, Like those like you got both sides right,
and there's actually a song that listened to the other day.
It's like you got this side that's fighting you here,
that's like kind of protecting you but also being mean,
you know what I mean, Like you know, and then
you others are like, hey, I'm good, Like let's just
let's not focus on that stuff. Let's let's do what's

(47:31):
what's that task right now? And uh, definitely we all
we all have those in our in our thoughts, right,
and so it's just how can we control that, you know,
how can we how can we discuss those. How can
we tell other people about them, you know what I mean,
to help us kind of control those if we can't ourselves.
So uh but yeah, that was that was. Those were
some some of the fun fun things there.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I have to ask you about Tony Ramos. I thought
you guys had some some throwdowns. What do you think
back to to those matches and you know it's a
later but what what's top?

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Uh? Yeah, that was. Those were honestly, like I would
say some of my like rivals, Like yes, he was
definitely one because those were some of the figure matches
right the NCAA Semis and and obviously our goal here
in Edinburgh, Like that was fun. But Dardain's Chris Ardanes
that was another dude I just wrestled a lot. And
then Mason Beckman, those were those were the three guys
that I feel like I just wrestled so many times

(48:23):
in college telegraph as well, like we had just had
a lot of back and forth matches and and uh,
like it was. It's just one of those ones where
it's like you don't necessarily look forward to but like
you do, you know what I mean, Like there's a
side of you that's like man, like that's just gonna
be like a barn burner, and like I would just
love and against someone who loves to put up bonus

(48:44):
points like everyone does, right, but it was just very
common for me to get to most points, and so
like I hated when I couldn't get those bonus points
like it and honestly like frustrated me. Like I I
didn't like winning by a close margin. And maybe this
helped me get bonus because like I know that I'm
that close to losing if I'm if I'm winning by

(49:04):
one or two points, like I'm that close to lose,
I'm one move away from losing. And so maybe that
was my fuel to the fire to hey, like let's
go get a turn, let's go get another takedown, let's
go get some back points. Because I needed that. I
needed that fuel, you know, I mean to be able
to not have that I don't know, not necessary anxiety,
but you know that that that pressure on you of

(49:25):
and pressure was fun. Like I still I tell myself
all the time, like I love having the pressure, Like
give me the pressure, you I mean, give it to me.
And again it's just like the mental side, the mental training,
you know what I mean, like, it doesn't matter if
it's let's say we're in the room playing handball before practice,
like give me the ball, if we're losing with thirty
seconds left, like put the pressure, And it's just that
constant attack of that moment when a lot of people

(49:50):
freeze up and don't do well, and if you can
put that on it and okay, well what happens if
you fail? People are gonna get who cares? No, No,
honestly people, it's not that big of a deal. But
the pre thoughts of well, what happens if I don't
what happens if I if I talk big and then
don't back it up like okay, well fine, Like there's

(50:10):
so many people that are that are like that that
but again, it's just about owning owning it a little bit. Okay,
you got me, give me another shot, you know, let's
go again. And then then the next time you're in
that pressure moment, like give me the pressure, put pressure
on me, talk smack, let's go, and then you hit it,
you know what I mean? So, uh, those are but
yet the rainmost matches were you know, he got me

(50:31):
in the last one, which was which was rough because
it was it's one of It's one of those ones
that uh you know is uh it was it like
thirty seconds last and you know finished. It was just
it was a it was a close match. But yeah,
we we had quite a quite a bit of the
battles and they were they were fun, uh in the moment.
And obviously the funnest one for me was was the
was the win here and at Macomb and you know,

(50:53):
you have your whole crowd and you know, the family
and friends and just a lot of people coming to
watch just Iowa and then also like little Edinborough scrap
with Iowa because we were two of the top teams,
and uh, yeah, it was it was special when we're
looking forward to getting something like that, you know, go
and get getting back here again.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
You ever talked to like Tyler Graff or Tony Rainbows,
any conversations with those.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Guys if I see them, Yeah, if I see them. Honestly,
probably the one of the guy that I compete well,
Mason beach Men. He was one that I had competed
with it like I'll see just being from Pa and
stuff like that. But probably one of the ones that
I've talked to probably more was that is like Chris
Dardanes and I never wrestled Nick, but I've done camps

(51:36):
that that I was hanging out and fishing with Nick.
Uh and then Chris actually coaches health to go to State,
so I was. I'm still pretty close with quite a
few of those guys like uh, Nate Rohdard and Martin
Mueller and a lot of those guys that Luke Zilberberg.
It was an all American there as well, and a
lot of those guys that are that were coaching and

(51:57):
connected with him as well because they were they were
coaching there and helped out and so I got to
hang out with with them, and so it's just yeah,
it's just uh, it's just fun to be around those guys.
And they they harp on him and give him crap.
And I'm sure if I was around my buddies, they'd
be giving me crap about you know, wrestling, wrestling Chris
a lot as well, because yeah, we we had those
those were just battles, like and those were ones where
like even at the at the time, I remember, you know,

(52:20):
my my girlfriend, I guess and then now my now
my wife she's like, oh, man, like I hate when
you like wrestle those guys like because I'm coming out
of the match like with like a busted nose and
bumps and straights all over my face and like they're
literally like I remember like with with Dardaines, like it
was it was fun and like he was just a bruiser,
so it was it was like a fun battle. But

(52:42):
like I would get a tool one and he would
honestly be like if this is my nose, he'd be
doing this to my to my face like and and
washing the match, and I was like, that's like several
points being put up on the board from the hands
of the Vaseerel, but at the at them like she's
like he's actually punching you like in the face, and
it's just just funny. And then you come off the
mat and it's like, man, why is my no sore?

(53:03):
And then you look back at the match and it's like, well,
I see why. But yeah, that's that's what makes those
matches fun, you know what I mean. And I enjoyed
having the black eyes and the cuts and it's just
like could you see these random people and especially like
even now as an adult, like I'm a thirty thirty
some year old dude. You know, I'll be in the room,
I'll get cuts and straight scratches and black eyes and

(53:24):
then I walk out to the grocery store I drop
my kid off. It's so and I'm like, I just
love the thinking of what the thoughts of these other
kids parents are, Like did this dude just get in
a bar fight or like what's going on? It's like, no,
just just the wrestling coachs getting a head butted and
being my young guys.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
So when you look at your coaching journey Aja, South
Dakota State, Purdue. Now you're back, you're alma mater at Edinburgh,
how have you changed the most as a coach?

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Uh? I would say just thinking about uh, maybe like empathy, right,
And I was say, a lot of that is from
having a wis and kid, and my wife's kind of
just helping, like, hey, not everyone is like you. Not
everyone thinks exactly like you. Not everyone wants to do,
you know, as all the things that you've done, and

(54:10):
not only just my wife, like even just people in general,
like just discussing with other people about you know, recruits
and kids and going to camps and talking to you know,
people that have been around wrestling quite a bit. It's
like not everyone has the same thoughts as you, right, Like,
not everyone wants to be the best. Not everyone wants
to compete hard. And there's a lot of different kids
on the team, and ever it takes a whole army

(54:33):
to do well, right, and so to learn the different
styles of Hey, like we talked about the herd, right,
what are the kids at the front? The kids at
the front are the ones that are doing all the
right things. The kid at the back, they're like, they're
they maybe wanted, maybe they didn't have a lot of success,
maybe they started later. They definitely have a chance to
get towards the front. They just have to put in
a lot of work. And then how do you get

(54:54):
those guys to believe that, hey, they can be that guy.
They can be the guy that gets to the front
of the pack, and uh, you know, be be the starter,
be the be the guy that gets cenca's, be the
guy that maybe they don't ever start, but they're the
guy that the team leans on, you know, to be
that like that energy in the room. Right, There's there's
a lot of different types. Like a team cannot be

(55:16):
just ten wrestlers. You know what I mean, Like we
need we need the whole thirty you know, we have
thirty four, thirty five guys on our team, Like we
need everyone. We need everyone to be bought in and
you know, and as somebody messes up, hopefully you have
those other thirty four guys pulling that guy back in,
you know what I mean. If if it's a whole
heard and there's nobody, there's none of the bad eggs

(55:36):
back here. Hopefully if somebody starts drifting, they can get
grabbed and pulled back in. And so just kind of
learning that side of things that like there's a lot
of different styles. And I learned that down at the
I guess I heard about it at the UH and
the Coaches Convention and NWCA Coaches Convention down in Florida,
you know, when I was down there and just listening

(55:57):
to people to just talk about the you know, leadership
and stuff like that. So but yeah, I would say
that's something that just kind of learning about and kind
of being aware that, you know, there's a lot of
different styles. And again, I you know, do club and
clinics and camps and stuff like that, and so being
able to connect with the younger athletes as well, and
discuss the different opportunities on teams for kids. You know

(56:18):
what I mean, because I think being a part of
a team in colleges is tremendous. I think it's great
to be able to go through, you know, a college
career with basically a family. You know what I mean.
You get, you get you get connected to these guys
that you're going to be connected with for the most
part of your whole life, you know, I mean, these
are going to be your guys that you know, you
might move away, but you're always going to be connected
with them because it's like kind of I don't want

(56:40):
to say sad to say, but it's like shared suffering.
Like this is like any any college athlete is Like
there's some suffering and what you're doing and when you
do it together with other people, it kind of makes
you makes you makes you close. And that's uh, that's
actually a military thing, you know, the shared suffering. That's
why those that's why military people are so close with
each other, you know, their brothers and sisters and stuff

(57:00):
like that like that because of the shared sufferings.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
So I'm a question for you. Aj you are cross
country trip in a car one coast of the other.
You and you get to pick three people dead or
alive that you've never met. What are you picking to
make that trick with?

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Oh boy? Uh, it's a I like technology. So maybe
Elon Musk would be kind of cool and he could
he could take us there easy through his spaceships and
stuff in his cars. Uh, man, I don't know. That's

(57:44):
a that's a rough one. It'd be It would be
definitely fun because I I'm not a huge fan of history,
but I like, uh, I enjoy I enjoy listening and
learning about some of the stuff. Like I it's not
something that I'm a I'm gonna jump into as one
of my hobbies by a lot of the history stuff.
So anyone honestly that that came from seventeen eighteen hundreds,

(58:08):
that would be would be kind of cool because it's
like it's just a different perspective of life of how
how things are. And yeah, I guess even in the
current world, like you got people from uh, you know,
third world countries that are like, what is the one
thing that you want the most? And it's like, uh,
to be with my dad, you know, to be able
to have water and it's like that's it's just your
perspective on a situation, right, and so it kind of

(58:30):
makes the perspective of the moment that we're in now,
you know, in their current situation is really not that bad,
you know. I mean, we have it so good, so
good here that you know a lot of people, you know,
kind of take advantage of that. The third one, let's see,
so I guess the second one, I didn't really give
you specific but maybe let's go like like Abe Lincoln
to the to the wrestles, that'd be that'd be pretty cool.

(58:53):
I guess another wrestler. I'm gonna stick on the wrestling field,
and I'm gonna go with Neil deGrasse Tyson because again
I love listening to that dude speak in his perspectives
on situation and super smart guy talks a lot. But
again he has that wrestling background a little bit, which
is which is cool. You know, you know that any
anything with wrestling Honestly, like I can be walking down
the road and I there's like a wrestling choir. I'm like, hey, hey,

(59:16):
look there's there's there's a wrestler, like a wrestling commercial
or something like that was the worst wrestling. I'm like,
I don't care, but it's wrestling on a national scene
or something like any anything with wrestling I'm enjoying. I
obviously I can appreciate and love this sport. So it's
been a part of me and uh, you know, like
to continue that for sure.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
So who was your favorite wrestler growing up?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Honestly, I was a multi sport athlete, so I didn't
dig too much into wrestling when I was. I wrestled
since I was four. I did, you know, the multiple
tournaments a weekend and multiple weights, and so I did
it a lot. I didn't really I didn't really follow
the upper you know, the upper levels of wrestling at
the time, so I didn't really have any specific I
didn't watch any Olympic wrestling or addressing at the time,

(01:00:01):
so there wasn't there. Honestly, I couldn't tell you a
person that you know at that at a certain level
that was like, oh man, I can't wait to be
like that, you know what I mean. So, and honestly,
I talk a lot of with our guys too, like
hey man, it's great to have role models, but don't
put them on a pedestal too much because if you
put somebody on a pedestal too high, you don't for

(01:00:23):
the most part, you don't think you can get there.
You think that they're way up here and you're down here.
I think what you should do is like like, hey,
like have a role model that says you want to
be like them because you want to you know you're
capable of doing that. And so so I talk a
lot with you know, with our guys and you know,
the kids in camps and stuff like that around it
is like, hey, like it's your there's a chance that
you can do this. There's a chance that you know,

(01:00:44):
you can go out and you know kind of make
your own history kind of. The one thing I stick
stick to a lot is too is I always say, like,
if you go out, like as a random by school kid,
if you go out and win Super thirty two, No,
like there won't be some crazy documentary about that, like
meaning it's not that crazy of a thing that would happened.
So it's possible, like that you can go out and

(01:01:08):
do really well a department Like honestly, like, there's not
gonna be some Flow or Netflix documentary that you some
random high school wrestler went out and wasn't that great,
but he became great. Like it happens. It happens all
the time, and it can be you, you know what
I mean. Like, so don't I just hate when people,
you know, don't think that they're capable of stuff, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So good stuff. AJ, this has been a lot of
fun and a lot of I can't really appreciate the time.
Fun to catch up and really happy you're uh you
know back at Edinburgh. We're gonna miss you in the
Big ten. I mean you guys. Yeah, look that coaching
staff at Purdue you were a part of it. Yeah,
great things. But uh, you know, when I think about
Edinburgh Wrestling, I mean, you're one of those things that

(01:01:48):
comes to mind, and you're right, You're in the right spot.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
So uh appreciate. Thanks luck to you as as.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
You embark on this next chapter. But great catching up.
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Thank you. Appreciate your energy and what you do for
the sport as well. It's awesome. It's awesome to continue
that and see that and have that connection with you
for sure, So thank you very much for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
We'll see you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Awesome. Thank you