From Underdog to Champion: Mark Branch’s Wrestling Journey - Go Earn It Ep. 38

Mark Branch, a four-time finalist and two-time national champion, discusses his wrestling journey with Shane Sparks. Branch recalls his first meeting with John Smith, who convinced him to join Oklahoma State over the University of Oklahoma. He describes the initial challenges of transitioning from high school to college wrestling, feeling inadequate and overmatched.
 
Branch emphasizes the importance of perseverance, citing his freshman season where he won the national championship despite entering the tournament with a losing record. He also shares the emotional impact of overcoming a serious knee injury and the support from his mother's cancer battle. Branch highlights the shift in his coaching philosophy to prioritize relationships and emotional support for his athletes.
 
Check out Shane Sparks’ interview with Mark Branch on Episode 38 of the Go Earn It Podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast, where we bring
you stories each week of people who have battled through adversity,
overcame the obstacles, and earned their dream. You were born
for greatness and our mission is to bring you the
stories that will inspire you to dream big and go
earn it.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
And welcome to the Gornet Podcast. I'm your host, Shane Sparks,
Episode number thirty eight, another Hammer, four time finalists, two
time national champion, currently the head coach for the Wyoming Cowboys,
a rook Cowboy coach Mark branch Mark, how are you
great to have you on?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Uh? Great? Gan, Yeah, I'm happy to be on, so
thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
My first question for you, Mark is do you have
a favorites quote?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
You know? Probably my favorite wrestling quote from from Coach
Smith is that you know and I use it. I
think I use it quite a bit in coaching. Is
that adversity causes some men to break and others to

(01:19):
break records. And I think that kind of signifies the
type individual that handles stress, adversity, obstacles because everybody's gonna
face them, and some people go the opposite direction and break,
and some people it pushes them to that next level
of breaking records, and uh so that's kind of you know,
I've been in those situations, and I've been in those

(01:40):
situations where adversity has has made me break, and then
I've learned how to let adversity fuel me, you know.
So I love that one. Probably one of the first
ones that I remember him saying that caught my attention
and then when I understood it, it became powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
What do you remember from your first meeting with John Smith?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was I went on a recruiting visit, and I
mean my first personal meeting. Obviously, I went to Oklahoma
State wrestling camps and you know, he was he was
teaching and and uh obviously at the time he was
the greatest in the world, and and you know, I
was in awe of him. But my first face to
face was was when I went up there on my

(02:23):
recruiting visit. He wasn't the head coach yet. He was.
He was kind of the interim head coach with Kenny Monday,
but he was really doing doing the recruiting and and
you know, I remember setting setting down and and uh
him telling me that he was going to be named
the head coach, and he wanted me to come to

(02:44):
Oklahma State and I I just remember, I remember telling
him that I had a recruiting visit lined up the
next weekend to University of Oklahoma, and I said, I
kind of committed to him. And I said, the only
the only you know, the only hang up is that
I want to go on my visit next weekend. And

(03:06):
he said, well, if you go, If you go on
your visit, that's fine. I respect that, but I'm going
to go sign Barry Weldon and and so I was like, well,
don't do that, never mind, I'll cancel my visit. I
don't know if it was a bluff or if he was,
you know, really going to do it, But that's when
I committed to Oklahoma State. And you know, so that

(03:29):
that weekend was really the first time I sat down
and got a chance to meeting face to face.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
You spoke about adversity when I talked to most people
making that jump from high school to college, not to
mention the jump from a high school room to the
room at Oklahoma State. You better know how to deal
with adversity. What were those what were those first weeks
and months like for you in that room.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Instantly, my feelings, deep inside myself is I don't know
how to wrestle, and I thought I did, and and
just that level of uh, you know, of of guys
that I my first few guys that I worked out with,
I mean, one of my first drills was with Kenny
Monday and and and then I remember drilling with J.

(04:16):
J McGrew, who had just transferred there at the same
time I arrived, and and I just remember going, I
have no clue even how to drill. I felt awkward.
I didn't I realized I had no technique, and I
felt like I didn't belong there really, I mean I
really did. I'm like I had been off way more

(04:37):
than I can chew. And I realized how insignificant I was,
and coming from a tiny little school in Oklahoma, you know,
I was, I was a big fish in a little pond,
and and going to Stillwater, I'm like, I shouldn't even
be in the sport, you know. And I honestly felt
like that. I felt kind of embarrassed. Kids were talking

(05:01):
about the things that they had done at the high
school level nationally, and obviously I knew some of the
superstars there. Pat Smith and Alan Freed and the Purlers,
and you know, I knew who they were, but then
even just the guys, I didn't know they were talking
about things I'd never heard of. And I'm like, gosh,
this is this is embarrassing. I can't even carry on

(05:22):
a wrestling conversation, much less drill. So it was. It
was humiliating. Actually, I questioned myself for quite a long
time before I realized like I could get better and
could actually you know, be successful. That took a long time.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I mean, that story makes the hair on my arms
stand up because ultimately we know how your story ended.
What was the inner dialogue between your ears, like Mark
during that time dealing with that adversity, Like how did
you figure it out? Looking back now, you know, thirty
years with a different perspective, how did you figure it out?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
And it was a process and and like I said,
I I I honestly, I'm like, I don't belong here.
I'm not gonna make it. And the only thing, I mean,
my parents wouldn't. They'd never let me quit. And that
was one thing that I'm like, Okay, I got to
at least like stick it out until either they get
rid of me, and then that's my that's my reason

(06:25):
that I'm not here anymore, or I got to get
through this year, you know, and and just I can't.
I don't have the option to go home. I don't
have the option to quit. And that's something that I
value more now than ever. You know that that I
did have parents that way, and that was from you know,
that was me and my brother from from when we
were very young. Is anything we tried. Uh, they didn't

(06:49):
force this into anything, but they're like, if you start it,
you're going to finish it. And that's just there's no
there's no conversation. And and so that that single handedly
probably just kept me in long enough to where then
I did start figuring it out. And I always kind
of tell the story like that my whole first semester,

(07:09):
I thought I was just horrible. And my brother was
three years older than me, and and he had wrestled
in junior college and was you know, had beat up
beat me up my whole life. And I went home
for Christmas break and went up to our high school
wrestling room with my brother, and I'm like, I need

(07:29):
to get a workout. And I didn't really have anybody
to work out with at the you know, in my hometown.
So I took my brother up there and I beat
the tar out of him for the first time of
my life. And that was the very first time. So
it took me, you know, from August until December. It
took me that long. And that's when that light went

(07:51):
off on my Holy cow, I got better. I'm like,
I've never beat my brother in anything. He was you know,
like I said, he was three years older than me,
and he was a nasty wrestler. I mean he was,
he was tough. But I beat the brace off of him.
And I remember we went home and he laid on
the couch and his face was purple. And uh, I
never had so much pride, you know, when I'm like,

(08:13):
holy crap, I'm I'm actually getting better at wrestling. And
that was that was the first time I had any
kind of confidence to say it's working, because I mean,
I was just getting beat up so bad in that room.
I was like, nothing's working, you know. Every day it
was like a failure. So it took something like that,
and you know, I share that sometimes with some of
my struggling kids to go you never know when it's

(08:35):
gonna happen. But you if you stick it, stick it out,
you're gonna You're gonna figure it out. At some point.
I'm getting better, but it's not apparent when you're just
getting the crap beat out of you every day.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
When you look back at that time, mark, what were
something what were the most important things you were doing
that at that time you didn't realize we're gonna pay
the big dividends, But what were some things you were
doing that made the difference.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I was competing and that was it, Like, I mean,
I was competing. I remember. The only thing I felt
like I was doing well was like conditioning things, you know,
and back then we did a lot, especially preseason, we
did a lot of running. And that was a big
part of our preseason conditioning is we would do runs.
We would do long runs, and I was like, that

(09:22):
was the only thing. I was towards the front of
the pack hand and you know, but it was important
to me, you know, And I kept a journal and
everything was coming at me so fast that that I
was like, I was overwhelmed. And you know, John was
teaching technique I'd never seen before and breaking it down
to the details that I couldn't believe, and I'm like

(09:44):
it was blowing my mind. I would go home to
my dorm and from practice and I was like, I'm
like my head hurt because I'm like, I'm going to
forget this, and I was kind of panicking. So I
started journaling and writing notes and and really writing the
details of the technique. But I remember writing, like, my
times today we ran five miles and we you know,

(10:04):
we ran five miles and I placed third and this
was my time. So I was like, I was competing,
Like I was like, I gotta, you know, do something well.
And that's what I was doing in practice too, Like
I was going as hard as I could and I
was getting beat and that was frustrating, I mean beat badly.
But I I you know, the one thing that I

(10:24):
had that really got me through everything is I didn't
quit again. Not only did I not quit technically and
leave the team, I didn't quit fighting. You know. I
was in the room fighting, trying to trying to win
every go, every situation. I just was very unsuccessful, but
I was competing where I could be successful. Like, you know,
so when conditioning, like I'm trying to win sprints, I'm

(10:47):
trying to you know that, and I think that that
level of competition is something that I learned and and
my my high school coach was a great coach, and
you know, the technique wasn't that what really probably what
he instilled in us. We were known for just being
very hard workers, and he ran very hard practices. So

(11:09):
it was the hardness wasn't the issue. I just that
the effort wasn't the issue. It was just that I
didn't know how to wrestle, and I and I was
just at a such a lower level of you know,
and trying to figure out what my technique was and
what my style was going to be. The things that
I did in high school didn't work anymore, and it

(11:31):
was frustrating. And I remember even going home and my
dad watching old high school films and he would say,
you know, he would just point to the TV and go,
why don't you do that anymore? And I'm like, it
doesn't work, and he was like, sure it does, you know.
And my dad never wrestled a day in his life.
And I remember I remember getting frustrated because I knew
he was, like I wouldn't say it, disappointed in me,

(11:53):
but he just was expecting me to be more successful,
and I called him out. I finally said, if you
think it work, to get up and do it to me.
And we got into a wrestling match and and uh,
I dominated him too. Uh And he never he never
questioned that again, you know. But but it was just

(12:14):
the work, right. I just kept I kept battling and
competing and fighting and and eventually started finding ways to
be successful. But it was a very, very long process.
So when I have a kid that's struggling, that's I go.
I promise you. I know, I understand. I've been there.
I didn't just have instant success, you know. So it

(12:37):
was but but the fact that I didn't quit and
I just fought every day got me there finally. I know.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
You've told this story a lots and I heard you
tell it with Ryan Warner on Wrestling Changed My Life,
which is just a phenomenal wrestling podcast. But you had
one of the more memorable runs in NCAA tournament history
as a freshman, you're under five hundred. You knock off

(13:03):
Chad Renner, who was a boss, the number two seed
at Oregon States. When you think back to that run
three decades later, what is top of mind today.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
That first match, and then you know, and I again,
I try to share these things as much as I
can because I think they're relevant to say. I go,
do you think I you know, I tell people, do
you think I believed I was going to win a
national championship? I absolutely, I'm not going to sit here
and lie and go I knew I would win it.
There's nobody in the right mind would have known that

(13:37):
or thought that or predicted that, including myself. What I
did know is I might I can compete with anybody,
and I did feel that way. I'm like I could
be anybody on it on a given day. And the
fact that it just happened on a three day stretch
really culminated from that first match because I went into
that match, and you know, part of that what we were

(14:00):
talking about earlier is is you know, John told me
I could beat him. And if John Smith says that,
you know, I'm coming from the highest authority I got.
I believed it. I bought into it, and he was like,
this is a great matchup for you first round. I
was in my mind immediately when he said that, I'm like,
this seems like a horrible matchup. How did I draw that?

(14:22):
Was back when they probably I think seated that only twelve,
and I'm like, I could have I could have drawn
another unseated guy. I could have drawn anybody else. I
draw the number two guy, you know, and he had
a record of like thirty five and one. And John goes,
this is a good match for you, and I'm like,
does it seem like it? And he goes, you can
beat him. It's it's a you know, it's a good matchup.

(14:44):
And I'm like it's and I'm like, okay, I can
beat And I really did believe that when he started
and I came out hot, and I came out aggressive,
and I got the first takedown and just threw the
legs on and started writing, and very quickly in the
first period, I felt doubt himself and I felt him
willed a little bit. I just I kind of felt
him give. And when I felt that, I just man,

(15:08):
I never felt so empowered and confident and and you know,
I went on and major dam I think twelve to
two or something like that. And from that point on
then every match was easy. I was the favorite. And
that was also John was like, you're the number two
seed now, and I'm like, yeah, I am. I'm the
number two seed, so I felt like I should be

(15:29):
favored for every you know, the rest of the matches
going through. So it was it was that, you know,
that moment of believing that I could compete with somebody
that on paper, you know, I shouldn't even have been
in the match, and then going from there and using
that momentum to just flow with confidence.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
What was it like standing at top the podium on
that Saturday night as a national champion?

Speaker 3 (15:53):
It was it was It was weird. I had never
I had never went to an NCAA wrestling tournament. I
had watched some on TV, but back then, you know,
finding it on TV we you know, I mean, we
had one of the old, big, huge ten foot satellite dishes,

(16:14):
but they didn't show wrestling on that so we would
try to get it on an intenna. It was low,
you know. I had seen a couple when they were
in Oklahoma City that was probably the only ones I
had ever seen on a fuzzy TV with an antenna.
I remember walking in to the arena to warm up
for the finals, me and Pat Smith and Alan Freed

(16:35):
and I walked out there and the mat was on
the stage, and I'd never seen a mat on a
stage and I was freaked out. I was like, this
is dangerous, This looks danger What are we doing up here?
Like I've never wrestled elevated and I remember that kind
of blew my mind. And you know, so when Pat
wrestled before me and Alan had wrestled before him, and

(16:56):
the crowd was going crazy and we had just kind
of secure the NCAA team title. Man, I just I
was like, I'm gonna win. I'm gonna you know. But
it was like a dream. It was literally like a dream.
I remember a few days later trying to remember everything,
and I'm like, why can't I really remember what was
going on, like because I was just out of body

(17:17):
a little bit, you know. And I was mad at
myself because I'm like, I can't even remember. It was
like it was, like I said, like a dream. Did
this really happen? And so the whole experience was was surreal,
you know, And like I said, I was mad at
myself because I couldn't remember the details.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Was your dad there?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, My mom and dad were not going to the
NCAA tournament. They were not expecting me to go. And
at the big Eight tournament. I qualified by placing third,
and you know, the top three in the Big Eight
were automatic qualifiers back then, and so surprisingly I went.

(18:02):
And I remember there was an old couple, old Oklahoma
state fans, they really like my parents, and they sat
next to my parents and had season tickets next to them,
and they were at Ames for the Big Eight tournament.
And I remember them. We were like, well, where are
you guys staying, you know, in Chapel Hill. And my
parents were like, yeah, we're not going. We didn't expect

(18:24):
him to qualify, and so we didn't we have many
plans or anything. And they go, you're going, find a way,
you're going. He's he's going to do something there, and
you need to be there. And so my parents and
my dad's sister and her husband, so my aunt and uncle,
they got in there, you know, big old cargo van
and drove all the way out there, found a hotel

(18:46):
room and so yeah, my parents were. My parents were there, thankfully.
And when I when I won in the semi finals,
I ran upstairs. I was just you know, I couldn't
believe it. And I passed Big Leroy Smith, you know
John's dad. I never spoke a word to him in
my life. I knew who he was. I was running
and he grabbed me and he's like, where are you going, boy?

(19:09):
And I'm like, I'm going up to hug my parents.
And he was like, you're not done. This tournament's not over.
You got one more match. He's like, you go tell
them hi, and then you get ready for your finals.
And I was like, yes, sir, But that was great too,
because that was great to go, you know what, I've
come this far, I might as well win it, and

(19:30):
you know, kind of put in perspective of don't put
yourself on the back yet, the job's not done. But yeah,
it was just I can't imagine them not being there
after everything that happened.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
I always imagine those moments behind the scenes, because your
parents have been with you from the beginning, coaches, your family,
your practice partners, Like you might be the guy in
the podium, but there's probably a whole lot of other
people that should be right up there with you. And
I always picture, like what those moments are like when
you do something right, when an NCAA title, that first

(20:03):
interaction with the people that you love the most, you know,
what was that first interaction, like you recall from from
winning that first title.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, I mean I I and another thing. It was
funny because when I won in the semis and we're
down in the tunnel and down in the you know,
the bottom of the of the arena, there's a payphone.
You know, kids these days are like, what's a payphone?
But I, I, you know, got the pay phone punched
in my starting whatever, Oh my my long distance code.

(20:36):
I called my my apartment and uh got a hold
of my roommate. He went in a wrestler, huge wrestling fan.
He was a high school wrestler. And I'm like, can here.
You know, he's screaming, We're screaming. I'm like this is crazy.
He's like, oh my god. And I was just like
I had to like get out the emotions. You know.
It was just like I wanted to get the emotions out.
I was just so so fired up. And of course,

(20:58):
you know, when I get back to Stillwater, he had
went up and just put you know, took shoe polish
and just polished my car, you know, national champion. And
so I get home and I'm like, got one car
in the parking lote. It's all decorating. I was kind
of embarrassed, but I mean it was just such a
big deal. And then I remember, you know, I didn't
get to see my parents after the finals because they

(21:22):
you know, they wouldn't let they didn't let people down
on the floor unless you had a ticket, and my
parents were up with the nosebleeds, and so I didn't
get to see my parents after the finals. And then
they brought us back for drug testing, and I was
just probably all the excitement and adoreurnal and everything. I
couldn't pee and Pat was back there, Pat Smith, he

(21:45):
couldn't pee. They wouldn't let us leave until we peete.
And then Carry McCoy was the heavyweight. He won it.
So it's me, Pat and Kerry McCoy and we're slamming
waters trying to pee so we can leave, and the
arena was clear it out. I mean, it took us
forever to pete. I remember getting in the shower with

(22:06):
the drug test guy. He's standing there and make sure
I'm not cheating. I remember getting a shower because I'm like,
maybe a shower made me have to pee. And finally
we pee. It was like I said, me and Pat
and Kerry McCoy were the only three Our team manager
Chris Gambrell had waited for us. The rest of the
team had left. The arena was empty, and so he's like,

(22:28):
we got to go to the after party, you know,
and it's, you know, our hotel was, I don't know,
twenty minutes away from where we were having, you know,
from the arena, and that's where we're having our after party.
And so it's just me and Pat and Chris. He's
driving us, and we got a twenty minute drive and
we probably between me and Patt he probably hadn't stopped

(22:49):
five times on the side of the road and Pete
because we had drink so much water and juice, right
and now we couldn't stop being So then we get
to the after party and they had been partying. I mean,
they were celebrating, music going, everybody's screaming, you know, everybody's
you know, shotgun and beers, and we walk in and
then they see us walk in and they just go crazy.

(23:10):
And then it was just an onslaught, you know. I
mean I didn't even hardly couldn't hardly see my parents.
It was like a mob. Everybody was just grabbing you
and and it was a wild it was fun. It
was it was and that's the player was like it
would all seem like a dream. And I was like,
I wish I had you didn't have phones and he
didn't have camquarters running. I'm like, I wish there was

(23:31):
that footage of of just all those moments.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Who's the most impactful teammate you ever had?

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Oh man, that's a that's a tough one. And I
I don't even know. I just had so many. I
had so many guys. Hashtagafi was my host and he
was never really a full time starter. He meant a
lot to me as a as a mentor and and uh,
you know, he's got a very successful business in Cleveland

(24:00):
and we stay in touch, you know, and and so
you have guys that were behind the scenes that weren't
ever out there that made such a big impact on me.
Ray Weize was another guy that that was our starter
a little bit, didn't didn't have a ton of success,
but it was just a friend and that was it,
Like I didn't have there's kind of a funny story

(24:23):
that like that, like uh, when I'm when I got
in the finals or something. Pat Smith, who was known
to just say funny things, but he was like, who's
the who's this kid that's in the finals that you
know at the way it buve me. You know that
he was joking, but that was kind of how it was.
And I never really I didn't have those friendships until

(24:43):
later on, you know. I was just I always kind
of felt bad too, because we had such a good
team and I was I was failing. You just said it.
I wasn't even five hundred on a national championship team.
I constantly felt like I was letting the team down,
and I felt like I was a week you know,
the only week link on the team, and that was

(25:04):
that was hard for me, and I just felt, you know,
sometimes I it wasn't my fault of them. I just
kind of felt ostracized because I probably ostracized myself because
I was embarrassed because I couldn't succeed. But Alan Freed
was the guy that did come out of his way
a few times and make me feel special, and he
was so good. I looked up to him. But I

(25:26):
remember I lost the duel against Nebraska, and I felt
like I should have beat the kid, and I lost,
and I kind of maybe I blew it right and
like maybe I was winning and I lose in the end.
I don't remember the details, but I remember I was
really down and I was setting over by myself. Probably
John ripped into me too, because I probably should have one,
and you know, I just felt like the lowest the lows.

(25:48):
And I remember uh Alan walked over to me and
I had my head hung and and he was like, yeah,
watch Happy Days. I'm like, yeah, I loved Happy Days.
You know. I was like, yeah, I watched Happy Days.
He's like, you remember when Richie had the the winning
shot and he had to make the free throw and
I'm like yeah, and he goes and he missed it

(26:09):
and the team lost, and I'm like yeah, and he goes,
you remember what his dad told you. I'm like no,
and he pulls a life say right in his socket
and he goes, here's looking at you, kid. He walks off,
and I just remember going somebody talked to me when
I lost and I blew it and he like tried
to lift me up, and that was that was huge,
you know, pit me in there. There were times when

(26:30):
I just wanted to I was like, I don't even
want to be the starter because I just lose and
I cost the team and I'm and I'm and I suck,
you know, and so little things like that made big
impacts on me, you know. And and but over the years, man,
I just had I had so many great teammates and
great friendships. I talked to hartel Moore last night, you know,
and and uh, he's one of my best friends. And

(26:53):
we were we were teammates and workout partners and stay
in touch. But just so many, so many great people
and it really became your family. But it was hard
for me to be get I had to I had
to get successful to feel that way, I think, because
like I said, I felt like the black sheep, and
and not saying I was treated that way, just that's

(27:15):
how I felt. Because I felt like I couldn't do
good enough for that level of team, and I wasn't
doing Oklahoma State proud. I you know, I knew the
tradition of Oklahoma State rustling, and I'm like, I'm not
something our fans are proud of. So by winning, that's
that mentality started to change. And and uh, definitely, uh,

(27:36):
you know, became my family.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
What's the hardest conversation you ever had with John Smith?

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Man that you know those things. I was hard on myself,
just as I said, I was hard on myself, probably
unfairly hard and critical of myself, and I felt like
an embarrassment. And I remember the only duel we lost
that year was was up in Minnesota, and they were

(28:08):
they were two, we were one. They you know, they
were just coming on the scene as a powerhouse. And
we went up there and rustled our one hundred and
eighteen pounder disappeared in the middle of the night. He
was ranked second in the country. He disappeared in the
middle of the night, doesn't make weight, doesn't show up
for WANs like we can't find him. He broke cutting weight.

(28:33):
And I was, like I said, I was in and
out of the lineup. I wasn't even like the full
time starter. But he was ranked second in the country.
And I lost my match against Minnesota. We had to
give up a four foot one hundred and eighteen Nick Kerler,
who was ranked first in the country, gets upset, he loses,

(28:54):
and we and like I said, we lose the duel.
And I remember it was hard on me and I
didn't like it. But John came up to me on
the plane and kind of stuck his hand out to
shake it, and I was like, I thought it was
really strange, and he just kind of was like, shake
my hand, you know, and I reached up and sug
his hand and he goes, congratulations, you lost the duel

(29:14):
for us and walked off and I didn't. I mean,
I was broke already. That was hard. That was hard,
but you know what did also some of those things
used to make me mad, and I was like, you know,
I felt like I'm gonna win to prove you wrong.

(29:34):
And then I turned from I used to hold that
against John, those things, and I'm like, maybe that's why
I got good, Maybe because it hurt me so bad
and I wanted to prove that that sentiment wrong. And
that was that was tough. But I go back, all
of a sudden, I remember John was John was twenty
six years old and and six time world champion. He

(29:57):
didn't like losing, and he didn't you know, he didn't
accept losers, and so it was it was motivating. But
you know what, I also go he gave me the shot,
he gave me the opportunity. He left it to me
to be the guy to go to big eights, and
I did. I had to wrestle off the week before
Big Eights, and I had to win two out of
three matches to go, and I'm like, he didn't have

(30:19):
to give me that chance because I wasn't doing well.
He could have went with the other guy who was proven,
who was solid, But he gave me the chance and
I did it. And so you know, I don't have
any of those hard feelings anymore. Those things hurt me
and cut me, and they stayed with me for a
long time. But you know, like I said, now I
look back and I go, maybe those were the keys.

(30:40):
Those little things were the things that really motivated me
to be successful.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
When you look back at your college career, is there
a match, not necessarily a loss, but a match you
can pinpoint that you the most.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Two matches and one of them my first, my first duel,
varsity duel when I when I made the lineup, was
against the number one guy, which is Sean Fry from
from Missouri. He was the returning run route the year
before and was ranked number one. It was undefeated, and
that was my first duel in Gallagher Gallagher IVA. I

(31:25):
lost in overtime and so I came out of the gate,
showing that I could compete with the best guy in
the country. Lost in overtime, and I remember everybody treated
it like a victory and people were congratulating me, and
it really got under my skin. I mean it made
me mad. Now inside I was like, I just I

(31:47):
just went toe to toe with the number one guy,
So inside that started building some confidence instantly. And but
people were so excited because I hadn't even been in
the starting lineup and then that, you know, losing in overtime,
they were treating it like a victory, and I remember
it got under my skin and it really irritated me
that they were congratulating me for losing. And then but

(32:11):
then I just come out after that and my performance
is just you know, I went over time with the
number one guy to losing the guys that were maybe
you know, top fifteen, top twenty, they don't rank like
they do now you have a million rankings and they
go all the way to what thirties, So you know,
I was losing the unranked guys, I was losing the

(32:31):
lower rate guys. But that match like made me go, okay,
I can compete at this level. And then the second
one was my semi finals at the Big Eight against
Jason Leonard, who was I think he was ranked sixth
at the time in the country, and I was ahead
of him six or seven points going into the third
period and I got pinned. He took top. I got pinned,

(32:55):
And I remember that match that taught me more than anything,
because I thought I had the match one going into
the third period, and when he picked top, I'm like,
my mentality was like, he can turn me, and I'm
still beating him. I was at six or seven points.
I'm like, you know, I've won this match, and I
didn't wrestle, so I just I kind of went in

(33:17):
the going. I got two minutes and then I'm going
to the Big A Finals. And you know, he was
a great leg rider, and I'd never been in so
much pain. He cranked on me and and turned me
into power half and pinned me with about thirty seconds left,
and and that taught me everything to go. I just
and that would have qualified me for NCAAs. So now

(33:38):
I had to come back through the constellations. But yeah,
that was that was the match that taught me the most.
I think to go, never stop wrestling. It's not over
until it's over. And we met in the semi finals
of the NCAA tournament. It was the same exact match,
except in the third period he picked top again. I
had a six or seven point, you know lead, and

(34:00):
my mentality was like, there's no way I'm going to
my back. I'm going to freak out. And it was
it was not technique. I'm like, I've got two minutes
to freak out and win this thing. And that and
Jack spates, I think it was his first year of coaching,
and I remember him over in the corner, yelling, making

(34:20):
sure I could hear it to go do it just
like you did it last time, pinning you know, top,
take top, and you're going to pin him. And I
remember looking over Jack and I'm like, no way, no way,
and I just I knew it, you know. So it
changed me. And like I said, I didn't do anything
technical on bottom, but now as a cowboy, I reversed it.

(34:43):
I was I was a bucking bull and I'm like,
you're not going to ride me. I'm going to buck
you off, and I did. I just spassed out for
two minutes and I actually reversed him. He reversed me back.
I think I won nine to two, but it changed everything.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Ninety four was such an interesting tournament because you're under
five hundred, unseated in the final, you wrestle somebody else
that was unseated. I mean that, but that's that tournaments.
I mean, that is a it's so cliche, but it
is so true. You gotta beat the guy in front
of you. Don't have to be the conference champ. You
don't have to beat the number one seed. That's just

(35:21):
that's what makes that tournament so fun. In nineteen ninety five,
you and Marcus Molica, you know, a couple of the horses.
What was clearly it proved that nineteen ninety four was
no fluke. I mean, you were that darn good. How
different was that season having the target on your back?

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, it was. It was an entirely different experience for me.
I mean, I just felt pressure. Every time I stepped
on the mat. I had pressure on myself. You know,
I did have a much much better season, and you know,
but at the same time, I lost a handful of matches.
In every match, now I felt like I should have won,

(36:02):
and I I really I really had to learn how
to deal with pressure. And that was that was kind
of the story of that year is learning how to
deal with pressure and and and expecting myself to win,
you know, and having that expectition. But but I also
knew everybody else expected me to win, and that was

(36:23):
the pressure, right. I'm like, it's not just me. I
always put you know, I always put pressure on myself.
But now I'm like, everybody is demanding expecting that I'm victorious.
We lost the big guys, you know, we lost Pat
Smith and Nick Perler and and uh Alan Freed. You know,

(36:44):
so here I am as a as a sophomore, and
I'm kind of the top guy on the team now.
So the roles had really flipped dramatically, and so yeah,
I was just dealing with dealing with that pressure. And
you know, Marcus Malka was at one hundred and sixty seven,
my friendshman year, and then he moved down to one
hundred and fifty eight for NCAA's But he beat the

(37:05):
tar out of me in the duel I wrestled. He
was like my second or third duel out of the gate,
and he majored me and really a bad style matchup
for me. And then after that, every one of our
matches was a one two point match, overtime match, but
he was he was a very difficult opponent for me
to wrestle. I only beat him once the last time

(37:27):
we wrestled, which you know, at least I have that,
but he dominated me, you know, and every match, like
I said, even in the finals my sophomore year, it
was a it was a one takedown match or whatever,
very close match, but you know, there was it was
definitely a more successful year. But again you look at
that and you go, I came up short, and it

(37:48):
was crushing. You know, it was crushing because Pass Smith
became the first four time NCAA champion and then I
win it the very next match. I mean, I walk
out right after Pat and I win it as a freshman,
and and so that the question that was asked of
me forever from that point on immediately after, is are

(38:09):
you going to be the next four time? And uh,
you know, so I put that pressure on myself and
then I go out my sophomore year and lose in
the finals, and it was heartbreaking. I didn't want to
see anybody. I went from that celebration party my freshman
year and and and that you know, all that, you know, hoopla,

(38:29):
and then I I hid myself in a cave. I
mean I did not want to come out. I didn't
want to see my family, I didn't want to see
my friends. I was I was crushed, you know. So
it became a different feeling for sure. And and uh
and it definitely like I said it was, it was
figuring out how to deal with those expectations.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
So peeling the ending back a little bit, Mark, how
did you deal with that pressure and how have you
used those experience as an athlete for figuring that out
with your coaching with your athletes?

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Now, just just learning how to focus on performance instead
of winning, you know, because now I very quickly then
just all I focused on and all I thought about
was winning every match. And so that season I was
learning how to deal with my confidence in my performance.

(39:26):
And I do tell, I tell I share it with
my kids because I would have panic attacks. I got
beat out of Las Vegas Invitational, and that was early
in the year, and that was my first kind of
I think that was probably my first loss. I got
beat by Charles Burton, who is very good obviously Olympian,
you know, multiple time All American from Boise State, and

(39:51):
I was beating him soundly, and then all of a sudden,
I remember him just blasting me off my feet with
a double leg, and I started panicking, and I started thinking,
oh my god, what if I lost. And the rest
of the match, that's all I could think about was losing,
and I just I thought I was going to die.
I couldn't hardly crawl off the mat because it was

(40:11):
a panic attack. And so then every time I would
get in tight situations, I would start panicking and I
had to learn how to deal with that. And I remember,
you know, just my coaches and John talking to me
helping me get through it, helping me focus on the
right things. And I remember rustling against Justin Thof from Missouri,

(40:35):
and same thing. Match was going my way, and then
all of a sudden he took me down or something,
and I started panicking. And the only time I ever
did this in my career, I called a fake time out.
I called an injury time out. And that was back
when you know you didn't have you had injury time,
but you didn't have any kind of penalty. But I

(40:55):
remember calling a time out, and I remember our trainer,
and I remember John coming out there and they were like,
what's what's wrong? What's hurt? What's hurt? You know, And
I was just sitting there and I'm like, just give
me a second. And they were like, what what is
it your is it your arm? Is it your need?
Because they didn't see anything because nothing happened, and I'm like,
nothing's wrong with me. I just need to stop this

(41:17):
thought in my head. I was like, I have to
stop this thought. And I'm like, just let me take
a couple of breasts and let me And I'm like,
and my thought process was you're fine, he can't ride you,
so get up and take him down. And so I
just had to talk to myself, like score the next
point and stop thinking about the end of the match,

(41:38):
stop thinking about how this match is going. Just score
the next point. And so that that process was, you know, obviously,
like I said, I think my coaches helped me get
through that, probably some of my teammates. But I had
to learn how to focus on on just scoring points
and performing instead of the outcome of the match. And
that's you hear it all the time. I mean, that's

(42:00):
not a secret. That's one of the biggest things I
think in at least in college wrestling. That's one of
the biggest things that if you can master that, you've
become so much better. And it's so much easier said
than done.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
If you went back Mark and had a conversation with
yourself as an eighteen year old coming out of high school,
what are what are two things you would make very
clear to a younger Mark branch.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Oh Man. Just just to trust the process, because, like
I said, I think I doubted myself so much. I
didn't think I was capable of the level of success
that I ended up having. And that changed because, like
I said, coming from a small school and you know,

(42:45):
back then, I didn't understand the scope of college wrestling.
I didn't understand the scope of wrestling in the world.
And you know, I was. I was successful in my
high school, and so in my mind, I'm like, I
want to go and people would ask me and I
would be like, I want to go, you know, be
in the Olympics. That was like I just I just
knew John Smith, I knew Kenny Monday, I knew the Olympics.

(43:07):
I didn't know much. I didn't know the scope of it.
And I really went from believing that that was a
possibility to very quickly thinking I will never succeed in wrestling,
Like my wrestling career is coming to a dead end.
And I wish I wouldn't have done that. I wish
I wouldn't have had those doubts. I understand why. And
I think the process that I went through was fine too.

(43:31):
I think it was great. I think it was a
great life experience. So you know, when I when I
look back though, and I go I did things right,
Like I did really well in school. I got great grades.
I worked my butt off, I was dedicated. I stayed
out of the dangers that so many college students fall into.
I mean, you know, I didn't party, I didn't drink,

(43:52):
I didn't go out, and so I think, you know,
from that, I would say, good job. You couldn't have
done it any other way. You know. That's the only
thing I would tell myself, is like, thank goodness you
did it that way, you know, because I know I
wasn't talented enough to do it any other way. And
if I would have, if I would have let those

(44:14):
things become a distraction in my life, if I wouldn't have,
if I wouldn't have taken care of my academics. I
already had too much on my plate to be successful.
You know. Those things would have definitely led me down
the wrong path. So I think I just tell myself
to do it that way, you know. And like I said,
as much as I wish, I wouldn't have doubted myself,

(44:35):
I think that learning process is just part of life,
you know, and I'm thankful for it.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
It's one of the more excruciating scenes. It might even
take the top your junior year with the knee injury.
I mean, call this the go on It podcast, And
I would say any podcast. I always ask guys, give
me your go on at moments. If there was ever
a time, I have a pretty good idea what that was,
it would be talking to you right now. What do

(45:03):
you remember after getting the surgery. I'm just trying to
imagine what it been like in that hospital bed, having
gone through that.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, it started on the operating table, because I literally
woke up on the operating table. I remember, you know,
and I don't know if I don't know if they
have your eyes tape shut, I don't. I mean, all
I remember is a bright light, and I remember hearing
people talk, and I remember like I couldn't see. Everything

(45:36):
was blurry, so I don't know if it was like
I said, I don't know if there was tape and
I couldn't get my eyes really open, or if I
was just still under the anesthetic. But I woke up
on the operating table and I turned my head to
where I heard people talking, and there was a couple
of people, like a doctor and nurse over there, washing
up and stuff. And I just remember like grunting and

(45:59):
moaning because I couldn't talk, and I don't know if
I hadn't tube down my throat. I have no idea.
I just remember like I couldn't talk either, and so
I just was making noise and they turned around and
the nurse ran over there and said, I'm so sorry,
hon just give me a second and we'll get you
back to sleep. And then when I woke up in
my hospital room and the doctor came in, I said,

(46:25):
did I dream that I woke up on the operating
table and goes no, and I'm very sorry, and that's
our fault. He goes, we gave you anesthesia because it
should have been a two hour surgery, but it was
over five hours, so we hadn't given you enough anesthesia,
and so that was on us, and he was like,
and then so that leads to the bad news. The

(46:47):
bad news is it wasn't what we thought it was.
It was a lot worse. And so he goes through
the list of everything that had torn in my knee
and what he had to repair, and he was brutally honest.
He goes, I can't stay here and promise you you're going
to wrestle again. And he goes, but we're going to
do our best surgery. We you know, we did, We

(47:08):
did our We did a good job, but it was massive,
you know, And and they had to use they'd use
two two graphs, so basically they were going in to
replace my my pc L, and then they ended up
having to use another graph, so they used a cadaver
graph to repair my L c L, and then they

(47:30):
had to repair my A c L. Basically, everything in
my knee except for my interior, my my h M
c L was torn and and even things that I
didn't know we're involved in the knee were torn. And
and that was devastating, you know, it was very discouraging.

(47:52):
I mean, when you hear that from the doctor, you
you tend to believe it to go. What if I
never again? You know, it sunk in immediately, I would say,
I don't want to say depression, but I was pretty depressed,
and I was. I was discouraged, and uh, you know,

(48:13):
the process of rehab and and and getting back did
not go well either. So nothing was going well, and
so I was I felt sorry for myself. And that's
something that that process taught me a lot about instead
of like rising to that challenge and and being determined,

(48:33):
it took. It took months and and I would say,
I mean, I want to say months, maybe a month
of where I was really depressed and feeling sorry for myself,
and my dad called me and which was kind of weird,
but my dad called me and and told me that
my mom was diagnosed with cancer. And I was obviously

(48:55):
I drove straight home, spent the weekend with my family.
It was it was the whole weekend. I never felt
like a bigger piece of shit as a person. And
I'm like, I have been sitting here crying over for me,
you know, sad Mark may not ever wrestle again. And

(49:18):
and my mom was facing this challenge in front of her,
and it changed my life I mean it motivated me
like nothing that had ever motivated me. And I was just,
you know, I was like, I'm doing this for her.
And so I went back to Stillwater with a different
mindset and uh, and I'm like, I'm gonna fight through everything.

(49:39):
I'm not gonna let anything stop me. And really that motivation.
If without it, I don't think I would have came back.
And so that that pushed me. And that was you
talk about emotional, you know, emotion. And behind the scenes,
when I won NCAS at the end of the year
and I finished my season on the my mom had

(50:02):
had came fought her way down to the floor of
the Unidome and we were just bawling, I mean balling,
uncontrollably balling, both of us, and she was telling me
how I was an inspiration for her, and I mean,
I'm like, you don't even know, Like I wouldn't be
here if we went and went through that and she

(50:23):
was fighting a completely different battle. But yeah, I mean
that was just I was. There was no joy in
winning NCAA's that year. It was weird. I didn't have joy.
I had emotions that were beyond joy or excitement. There
was a relief because I put her on myself to

(50:44):
do like I'm coming back for her and I'm gonna
do everything it takes to end my career on the
top of that podium. And when it happened, it wasn't exciting.
It was just like cry. I mean, it was just
like a ball of emotion I couldn't control. And it
took me a while to enjoy that, but it was.
It was pretty special and an amazing life experience.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
I hesitate to ask this question, Mark, but I'm just curious,
and I feel like I I know you well enough
to ask it. But what what? How did your mom do?

Speaker 3 (51:17):
She shed so so she was she was diagnosed at
that time with non Hoskin's lymphoma and the doctors, now,
the way they explained it to the family was it's
it's incurable, We're going to treat it. And she went
through chemo for six nine months, lost all her hair,

(51:39):
the whole nine yards, and she fully recovered from that,
which was just a miracle. And and she ended up
with breast cancer later on in life, and and what
fought through that, and and you know, had had a
lot of health problems and we lost our moms here
a few years ago. But but she obviously made it

(51:59):
through that, and we weren't expecting that. I mean, we
were taking it as hard as you can take it.
When they say it's it's it's really incurable but treatable
and we can maybe extend and then you know how
it is like if you go, if you go, what
is it five years without without it? You know, on
your check ups, they consider you cured. So from that standpoint,

(52:21):
she was cured and and what you know, such a
such a miracle that we weren't expecting.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Does faith play a role in your wrestling or did it?

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Absolutely? Absolutely? And that was something that that you know,
obviously you got to in those situations. You got to
you got to put everything in God's hands and and
you know, one hundred percent, that was a big part
of me learning when I talked about dealing with pressure
and all that of learning to just say, you know,

(52:52):
accept that, hey, God has a plan for you. All
you can do is do your best and and and
be okay with it, you know, And that was something
that helped me learn to deal with the pressure and
say you train hard and I you know, I would
I would self talk like I believed I trained harder
than anybody else. I believed as I continue to get better,
I started to develop I can beat anybody on my feet,

(53:15):
I can beat anybody on top, I can beat anybody
on bottom. I started believing those things and then I
then I just would turn it over to my faith
to say, you know what, what's gonna happen is gonna happen.
You do the best that you can do, and God's
plan is going to work out. And I saw so
many signs of that in my life, you know, I
mean so many affirmations to go just just what I

(53:36):
was talking about of coming back from the from the
knee surgery, coming back you know, with my mom going
through chemo, and and just believing that that, you know,
God's plan is is what it's going to be. You
can't control it. You can only control what you do
every day. And that was that was huge for me.
You know, throughout my college career.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
What separates good from great man.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Great? In wrestling? I mean we're talking, you know, I
look at wrestling. I look at wrestling as one of
the best, probably because of my experience, is one of
the best mirrors of life and one of my one
of my one of my least favorite quotes, because you

(54:27):
asked me my favorite quote. One of my least favorite quotes,
which is one of the biggest wrestling quotes in life
that you hear, everybody uses it wrestling. It's one of
my least favorite quotes. You probably know exactly what I'm
gonna say, but it's Dan Gable. Once you've wrestled, everything
in life is easy. I think it's the worst quote ever.
No offense to coach Gable. I think it's the worst

(54:49):
name because I'm like, life is hard, wrestling is easy,
and that experience that I just shared, I think is
a testament to that. To say, wrestling you you can
control that. Every day. I can go in, I can
bust my butt. If I'm hurt, I can bust my
butt rehab. I can always put that effort in and

(55:12):
fight and fight and fight. Life is hard. Life is hard.
Losing your parents is hard. Losing loved ones is hard.
You know, working providing for a family, raising kids as hard.
Life is hard. But wrestling is such a hard sport
and such a demanding sport, and it's such an individual
sport that if you can, if you can figure out

(55:34):
how to master that but keep it in perspective. I
want to be the best, and I want to compete
at the highest level, but keeping it in perspective that
life's bigger, then I think that's that's when you can
be great. Now. I'm not saying you're going to be
the greatest restler. You're not going to be the John
Smith's or the Keil Sanderson's of the world. I'm just

(55:55):
talking about great at life that I think that's what
separates being great is keeping that perspective and keeping your
priorities you know and uh and have if you have
faith in God, of keeping that as a priority in
your life and letting that lead you. I think that's
what greatness is. And you know you can be good

(56:15):
at anything, but but are you really? Are you really
great at life? And because we all fail at life too,
and that's part of learning, learning those lessons. When you fail,
when you make a mistake, when you when you do
the wrong thing, when you when you let people down
around you, you can't change it. You can't change the past.
All you can do is try to move forward and

(56:37):
be better every day. And I think if you do that,
you end up being great.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Where are your two NCAA Championship wall charts.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
There are at my house. They're at my house, in
my in my basement. It's kind of funny because they're
so different from ninety four to ninety seven. Ninety four
looks like it was done, you know, by an elementary classroom.
It's a little picture like this, and then ninety seven
was you know, the huge that's when they started making
them really nice. So they're kind of funny side by

(57:10):
So it looks like I wrestled in two different generations.
But but yeah, it's kind of cool to go back.
I like, I like looking at him every once in
a while. And of course my senior year, I beat
Brandon Sleigh in the finals. And when when Brandon was
down to the Olympic Training Center, he would come up
and bring some of the OTC guys up here to train,
and they would stay in my basement and I'm like,

(57:32):
I'm like, I promise I didn't hang that right outside
the door that you're staying in. But the funny thing
is he's in my freshman bracket too. He didn't place,
and of course they don't have any of the seeds
on there. I mean, it's just a random I'm in
the middle of the bracket. Even in ninety seven, they
don't they didn't put the brackets the way they do now.
So it's kind of hard to understand this. But you
went through there and see some of the names, and

(57:52):
you're like, I had no clue. Like I it took
me a long time of looking back to go, I
had no clue. Braines Sleigh was in my bracket as
a fresh we were both freshmen. Didn't even know I
didn't even know who he was. Never rustled him till
my senior year. But yeah, it's kind of neat to
to look at those and and and kind of see
some of those names in there.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Who's the guy in the sport mark that you would
have never met, that you would love to spend a day.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
With in the sport? Oh? Man, I guess the thing is,
I've met most. I mean, I've met so many people
in this sport. You know. I think I was gonna
say I even think I'm pretty sure I've met uh,
you know, Jiro Utaki from Oklahoma State, and but I

(58:42):
I don't think of it. I mean probably just shook
his hand. That's the guy I'd probably love to sit
down and spend a day with because you know, the legends,
most people and most people even in my generation, unless
you were a non Shu fan, didn't know who he was,
and definitely now, but I mean he was, he was

(59:03):
a phenom. And the stories I've heard, you know, actually,
I would even say, like John Smith would probably tip
his hat and say that guy was the best ever.
And so I think it'd be pretty cool to hear
about his experience from you know, from coming from Japan
to the United States and being in a different culture,
in a different world and doing the things that he did,

(59:26):
you know. But I've been so fortunate to I mean,
I've had so many great conversations with myn Rogerts and
Tommy Chadsbro and you know, some of the greatest and
and I've had, you know, I've had personal one on
one conversations, albeit short, with Dan Gable, and I just
I look back at those things and think of how
cool that is that I've had that experience in this

(59:48):
and where wrestling's taken me. You know. I mean, I'm
honestly like two years ago when Tulsa A, the dncaa's
got a chance to meet our president elect, and I
was like I got to meet a president of the
United States. That's crazy, you know. And and the thing
the places I've gone and the people I met through
the sport of wrestling still blow my mind. And I

(01:00:12):
think about where I came from a little town of
New kirk Iff, twelve hundred people, a little farm town,
and I've got a chance to see things that I
never would have dreamed and met people who are amazing,
you know, and geniuses at their at their craft. So
it's pretty pretty cool to have that in my back pocket.

(01:00:32):
My kids think I'm they think, you know, They're like,
they think I'm famous sometimes and I'm like, they know
I'm not, but they think I am. But you know,
because not because of me, because people I get to meet,
you know, people that I know, and you know, some
UFC fightings and they say something of you know, say

(01:00:53):
my name on the on the air in regards to something,
and they think that's cool, and I'm like, it's pretty cool.
That was pretty cool, and none of what would have
happened without wrestling, you know. So I just you know,
those things make you feel so blessed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
I got a couple more for you. This has been
so good, So I just really appreciate the time. I
want to ask you, because you've been in this sport
so long as an athlete and now you've been coaching
for you know, almost three decades. What's the biggest difference
between you now as a coach compared to let's say,

(01:01:30):
even ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think you get to
a point where you know you're not going to coach forever.
I also got to a point where I'm like, you know,
ten years ago, you wonder if you're gonna you wonder
if you're gonna go to a different school, if you're
gonna end up you know, am I looking for a
different job? Am I try? Am I fighting for that?

(01:01:56):
You get to a point where it's like Wyoming's been
my home and I love this place and have no
desire to ever go anywhere else, and I know it's
coming to an end, and so it changes you. And
then on top of that, what we deal with this
coach has changes you. And there was you know, a

(01:02:16):
couple of years ago when all this portal nil started
coming together and makes I think I made a lot
of coaches feel defeated, made a lot of coaches feel helpless,
and I think that probably invoked the biggest change in
me to where I want to. I wanted to have
the relationships of my student athletes. That matters more to

(01:02:39):
me than almost anything. Whereas ten years ago, fifteen years ago,
my biggest focus was being the best winning, and that
not that that you know, competitiveness hasn't hasn't gone anywhere.
I just now I think it's not as important as
as really being a good coach and being a leader
and making sure of recognizing that my student athletes need

(01:03:04):
that too, and sometimes that gets lost when you're competitive,
and so, you know, I really felt like the most
important thing is building relationships and having those relationships and
keeping those relationships, you know, when following up on guys
once they've left the program and touching base with them

(01:03:24):
and seeing how they're doing and making sure that we
try to get them back here to be around them
and be part of the program. So I really just,
you know, I didn't value relationships as much as I
do now, And I think that's the most gratifying thing too,
that I've had as a coach. I'm mad at myself.
I'm like, why didn't I Why did I think differently

(01:03:46):
back then? And Why didn't I recognize that back then?
Because those were those were wasted opportunities. I've always cared
for my guys and loved them, but I loved them
like a very stern, demanding parent, sometimes very you know,
And I'm like, man, I got to have I got
to have that personal side, that emotional connection. I think

(01:04:10):
I have to open myself up for that, and I
think it's been great. Makes me feel better as a
person as a coach, and so not recognizing that earlier,
but I think it's coming from coming from old school.
Like you said, I've been at this for a long time,
and things have changed in college athletics, things have changed
in wrestling, and so I you know, I'm like, I'm

(01:04:33):
glad I did recognize it. I'm not sure all coaches
have yet, but I think it's where we all need
to go, you know, and we all need to have
those we all need to have those emotional connections with
these these young men because they need it more more
than ever, I think. And probably that's part of it too.
I think maybe you know back then, you didn't. You

(01:04:54):
were like, that's not my job, you know, that's that's
their parents' job. And now I'm not trying to take
over as a as a parent, but I'm like, I
need to be a I need to be here for
him in a lot of different ways other than just
making them a better wrestler. And so that's been that's
been cool and gratifying, and I'm glad. I'm glad I've
I've found that. I'm glad I've I've recognized that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
When you look at your accolades as an athlete, what's
the one, for whatever reason, you're most proud of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
As an athlete?

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Probably that Probably that freshman freshman season. I mean, obviously,
I think you know who knows. I often think I
wonder if that will ever happen again. I mean, obviously,
the the unseated's never gonna happen unless they change it
back because everybody gets a seed now, so the whole
unseated thing kind of, you know, is off off the table.

(01:05:51):
But will anybody have a losing record and go into
the NCAA tournament and win it? I mean, I would
love to see it, but I I know I've held
that title for thirty years. I've held that title, and
so I know that that's the one thing that stands
out different from me than anybody else. So that's that

(01:06:12):
makes it special. And the other thing it makes it
special is that was the first time I was ever
part of a team championship. Even through you know, growing up, youth,
high school, everything, like, we never won a team championship
in anything. We had good teams, but winning a team championship,
and in my heart, going, man, we didn't win it

(01:06:33):
by that much, and I felt so much pride of
going my performance. What I did not only was special,
you know in the fact that it had never happened since,
but I'm like, it also helped win that team championship,
and so I have so much pride in that, you know.
So that's the one that means more to me than

(01:06:56):
anything I think from from a success Accolade standpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Final question for you, Mark, you are driving from Cheyenne,
Wyoming down to Florida. You get to pick three people
get or alive that you've never met. What three people
are gonna make that? I was gonna say a car ride,
but I'm assuming Mark, you're a pickup truck guy.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Oh man, oh man, oh gosh, you get you should
like send these to me before So I'm going to
have because I'll regret whatever I say. I know I'm
gonna I'm gonna say, first off, my my my grandfather,
my dad's dad, who I never met. He died before

(01:07:48):
I was born, and so you know, that's something that
that I think would be cool because I see a
lot of my dad and myself the older I get
and and so I just kind of I think he
probably was was a big, a big part of of

(01:08:11):
who his dad was and and I never knew that.
So I got to throw him in there. You said, yeah,
dead or alive?

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
You were what was your grandmother name?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yeah? Craneman.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Okay, so he's in the truck.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Yeah, he's in the truck. I mean, uh see, I
you're you're getting You're getting on me because that's that's
a good one. I'm not going to regret that one.
But the other problem that I have is like the
people that have made me who I am and have
been such an inspiration to me, and and and a

(01:08:51):
lot of my family, I've I've lost a lot of
my fam I have lost my parents, my grandparents, so
many aunts and uncles and stuff, and and I would
waste that. I wouldn't waste that long of a drive
on anybody famous. I honestly wouldn't. I mean, it'd be cool.
I was just sitting or thinking, like Muhammad Ali, what
a cool experience that would be. But I you know,

(01:09:14):
I would take uh, I would take and I have
too many family members, but I would take that car
ride with with my family that I did meet my
my dad's sister who drove out to to n C
as my aunt, jan I would I would uh love
a long car ride with her any day of the week.

(01:09:35):
She was such an inspiration to me spiritually faith. You know,
I just looked up to her so much. She never
had kids, so she treated all the nieces and nephews
like their own kid. And and uh, you know, she
means so much to our family. And so you know, I, I,
you have an opportunity. I'm taking people that aren't around anymore,

(01:09:56):
you know. And then I'm probably taking my grandma, my
mom's mom. You know, those are people that have been
gone for quite a while that I miss every day
and I can't imagine not having them in the car
with me. So and then you know, if I got
a pitch up, I'm loading the backup too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I was just gonna say, we'll get you the extended
cab and uh yeah, exactly, exactly, Well, Mark, this has
been this has been awesome. I mean, I just I
love to hear the stories because everybody's got one. I mean,
everybody's got one. Everybody's got ups and downs and everything
in between, the good, the bad, the ugly, and I

(01:10:35):
just appreciate as a wrestling fan, it's just fascinating for
me to get to talk to some of the greats,
and you were definitely one of them, to just hear
your journey and how you navigated it. So thank you
so much. It was great to see you last week
at Wyoming, at the at the Duel at the Daddy,
and and the Battle at the Barn a couple of
years ago. I love what you guys are doing at
Wyoming and continued success this season. Looking forward to crossing again.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Yeah, it was fun. It was fun to go down
memory Lane a little bit. So thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Thanks again,