Part 2 with two-time NCAA Champion Matt McDonough - Ep. 22

Shane Sparks returns for Part 2 of the Go Earn It Podcast with Matt McDonough, a three-time NCAA Division I finalist and two-time champion from the University of Iowa.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast, where we bring you stories each week
of people who have battled through adversity, overcame the obstacles, and earned their
dream. You were born for greatness, and our mission is to bring you
the stories that will inspire you todream big and go earn it. And

(00:30):
welcome to the Go Earned Podcast.This is episode at twenty one. It
is part two. If I wasMatt McDonough. Part one with Matt McDonough
was episode nineteen. I'm Shane Sparkshere on the Go Earnt Podcast. First
and foremost, Matt, thank you. It is ten oh five Central time.
You are doing this after a longday of work. You and I

(00:51):
talked for about forty forty five minutesas you drove back to your house from
work. It's been awesome. Thisis why you're my guy. And I
first and foremost just thank you fordoing this. But I told you you
better be ready to go, youbetter be ready to scrap. And I
know you always show up and you'llbe ready to go. But thank you.
I just hey, I just lovewrestling. Thank you. I love

(01:15):
wrestling and I love talking wrestling withother people who have the same passion.
As I do, so forty minuteswas a breeze. Yeah, we talked
about some good stuff. I likewrestling for a long time too. I'm
sure you probably know some people thatI know who have mentioned something like that
before. So on episode nineteen,the majority of that the early years and

(01:41):
a lot of high school stuff,some great stuff. So I said at
that time, we got to haveepisode number two and obviously talk about your
phenomenal career at Iwall. You toldus before that you were looking at going
to Northwestern. You feel like youwere going to go to Northwestern, you
were going to wrestle one thirty three, but Tom Brand. You wanted to
run through a wall for Tom Brands. Wrestling at Iowa's your childhood dream.

(02:05):
You get to Iowa. What doyou remember from those first weeks in the
room at Iowa? Oh, Man, the first few weeks are I don't
want to call it a blur,but you are absolutely just what you'd stereotypically
think. And I think today's worldis different. The kids are coming in

(02:30):
much more prepared because they are ableto wrestle in college rooms with these RTC's,
these training programs, they have thecompetitions, they get involved in they're
able to feel it ahead of time, so they're a little better prepared.
But I mean, you're coming inand you know, you're riding high from

(02:51):
a stellar high school career, andyou get humbled real fast and you realize
that this is another level. Andwhat was wonderful for me is I spent
so long trying to earn my wayinto that level of prestige in high school.

(03:14):
You know, it wasn't from thetime I was a freshman. I
didn't like we talked about it.I didn't come into high school as this
illustrious, uh you know, prodigylevel wrestlers. So I spent so much
time trying to build that up thatit was kind of like a like a
a fresh reset for me, Like, oh, all right, I know
how to do this. I'm gonnado it all over again. I'm just

(03:36):
gonna freakin put my nose down andI am just gonna bust my tail as
hard as I can because that workedin high school and it's bound to work
here. And I did, andyou know, I had I wouldn't call
it just monumental success my freshman year, but I had noticeable progress, very

(04:00):
quantifiable gains, and you know,things were trending in the right direction for
me, just based off of that. So I think what I remember most
is the upper classmen. And I'mtalking like Joey Slayton, Charlie Falk,
Alex Sertsis. They were like thefifth years, right, the fifth years

(04:20):
and fourth years when I was afreshman and just absolutely beating the tar out
of me. Treat me like anugly redheaded step child, just having their
way with me. But you learnreally quick that you know, you get

(04:41):
at least you have the respect ifyou don't back down, if you if
you give them your absolute best,no matter how hard you get beat,
you're respected for that. And thatwas something that you know, I was
able to do and I think helpedme a lot. So your red shirt
freshman year you were at one fortyone or your true freshman year rather at

(05:03):
one forty one, did you everwrestle one forty one man or not?
I wrestled with the one forty onepounders, but I never I never competed
at one forty one. I thoughtabsolutely, you know, with my height
and the fact that I was prettylean, that if I lifted hard,

(05:23):
oh, I'd get big quick andI'd be at one forty one pounder,
and it just I just I thinkbecause I trained so hard, I just
naturally my weight stayed in those midyou know, mid thirties. And that's
that's kind of where I wouldn't sayI lived there, but that's where I
was all the time after workouts.Was right around one thirty three after workouts,

(05:46):
you know, and I was leanand I felt good, and so
I just wrestled one thirty three thinkingthat was my weight class. And that's
you know, that that's where Ihad intended on making my I my mark
as a red shirt freshman. Youwin the national title, you fall to
Angel Escabido of Indiana in the BigTen final. At what points in that

(06:11):
red shirt freshman season en route tothe title, when did you really feel
like I could win this thing?Like you remember? Was there was there
a moment, Was there a match? Was there anything that happened you thought,
you know what, I'm good enoughto win ten the Big Ten title
loss, no question about it.You know, as much as I would
have loved to win a big timetitle my freshman year and be that,

(06:33):
I think it was necessary because youknow, I was undefeated to that point.
But I had not wrestled any ofthe top top guys. And there
was Angel Escabido and there was TroyNickerson, and they were both returning national
champions and I had not wrestled them. And so I get to the finals

(06:59):
and I have my chance. Youknow I'm gonna do It's almost like you
call it naive, almost like I'mgonna do this. And hats off to
the freshmen who do that, whocome in and they take out they take
out the top dog. Right,It's happened before Zaane Rutherford, Logan Steber,
and look at what Zane Ruththerford,you know ended up doing. Isaiah

(07:21):
Martinez came in and hot as afreshman, right, so I had total
intentions, but he just you know, he out wrestled me. He out
wrestled me in our match, andI was so hot. But that projected
me to be fiercely focused going intothe national tournament that I am going to

(07:44):
I am going to march through thisthing. I am going to no matter
who's in front of me. I'mI'm wrestling to win this thing. And
you know, it materialized that way. And what's funny about it is I
had a a I didn't have likea perfect draw. I was I think
the three seeds, so I was, you know, I was obviously in

(08:05):
a good position, but everybody,a lot of people lost along the way,
and I just wrestled who was infront of me, and I end
up uh winning the you know,the semi finals over Cash Kroga, who
ended up falling to sixth, whileAndrew Long I can't remember if he beat

(08:28):
Escabido or he beat Roadblades, buthe beat I believe it was Escabido in
the semis to make the finals.He's the guy who went you know,
he went through the meat grinder andwon, and wrestling him, it's like,
well, I've already beat him threetimes, like I ain't losing to
him this time. But what's ironicabout all that is that after the tournament,

(08:48):
you know, you look back andI don't name any names or know
anybody, but you look and it'slike, oh, he he just had
a good tournament, had a nicedraw, things worked out for him.
He had a good tournament. Andthat that projected me to then be fiercely
focused for my sophomore year here inthat they chocked up my championship to you

(09:09):
know, the stars aligning, let'scall it for me, it's like no,
no, no, no no,Like I'm I aim to make sure
everybody knows that I am legit.So that spurned me into the next year.
But yeah, those those freshman year, I mean, that's that's where
I cut my teeth. That's whereI learned how to be to be great.

(09:35):
In your three finals matches? Whatmusic? Did you run down the
carpets too? You remember? Anddid you get to picket at that time?
I believe it was forty six andtwo. Every time it's a tool
song. I'm a big I'm abig rocker. Really. I always grew
up yeah, so it's kind offunny. I grew up with a lot

(09:56):
of older siblings, none of themwrestled. But I had a brother who's
ten years old than me, andhe kind of introduced me to lifting weights.
And so you know, he wasa guy. You know what do
most people lift weights to the liftwaights to rock? So we would always
rock out when we're lifting weights,and he showed me the ropes of that.
And it's your big brother. Especiallyby ten years, it's like,

(10:16):
I mean, I want to dowhat big brother does. So I got
hooked on rock music and it wasjust kind of one of those things that
was unique to me. And Iliked to walk I didn't want to walk
out. I never had interest inwalking out to like the popular song that
everybody was gonna go ooh. Iwanted to walk out to something that got
me feeling like I'm the man,like this is my jam, I'm ready

(10:39):
to go. So I always pickedthat. Hindsight, it would have been
fun to walk out like some ofthese guys got awesome walkout songs, like
uh, I remember Isaiah Martinez theChamps here that one he walked out to,
you like, come on, Like, that's that's hard to compete with.
But that's that's as much for thefans as it is for you,
and nothing against him. I thinkthat's pretty awesome. I just picked what

(11:03):
was comfortable for me and rolled withit. So you went with twol all
three years. Yeah, and inthe University of Iowa too. It was
just that was me, man,that was my music. That was what
got me fired up. And what'sthe name of the song again, Matt
forty six in two forty six intoI'm Gonna I don't even know. I

(11:26):
don't even I couldn't even tell youwhat like you know songs out with the
meaning of the song was okay,you just like the exact words. Did
you love the beat? Loved thissong? It was just my jam.
I am definitely gonna add that tomy music library. A little unknown fact
about me that many people don't know. I have the world's greatest music library

(11:46):
on my iPhone. It is.It is funny. Let me ask you
this, Matt so talking about music, give me your mount Rushmore of bands.
Oh man, mount Rushmore. That'sthat. There's a lot of good
ones, I think. I thinkin my opinion, I don't know,

(12:09):
I'm biased. I mean, there'sso many good bands. But you gotta
put are we talking like certain genresor any John anybody? I mean,
why did I always say? Imean, they're just so many good songs?
As I like Pearl Jam. Ithink Pearl Jam's top top of the
line. That you and I arebrothers from another mother man, perhaps the
top of the line. I sawPearl Jam last September at the United Center.

(12:33):
It had been my number one bucketlist concerts. I remember it being
it was incredible early nineties ten,one of the greatest CDs. Ever,
Eddie Vander was off the charts.You gotta see man. You know what,
maybe someday you and I go toPearl Jam Begause, I've it's on
my bucket list. It is definitelyon my bucket list. So there's one

(12:56):
and I'm with you. I gotPearl Jam on mind. Also, ay
one, give me one? Imean for me? Yeah, I mean,
that's that's a that's a slam dunk. There's just there's so many good
bands. You could go way backto Rolling Stones and Beatles, but it
all depends on aaron genre. Youknow. Nowadays it's if you don't say

(13:20):
Taylor Swift, you might get youmight get lynched if you don't see you
Do you like Taylor Swift a littlebit? I mean you've got a probably
some of her songs are great.I think it's funny how many wrestling people
are in love with Taylor Swift justfor the sake of being in love with
their Ay, it's too bad wecan't get her to a duel meet Oat.

(13:41):
That would be legit. You know, she's broken the seal. She's
going to pro football games. Ithink she can be swayed. I'm sure
the Kelsey brothers have have some kindof wrestling connection, I think, so
maybe they can sway her into going. So let's jump to you're so more
year you win your first Big tentitle. What was it like winning that

(14:05):
first Big ten title? I meanthat is the Big Ten is the big
leagues? You know that. Yeah, so that's actually that's a great Uh,
that's a great segue. So Iwin it my freshman year, and
we win it as a team,Like, you can't ask for more than
being the champ on a championship team. You really can't. It's a good
night. I didn't win a midin ten title, I didn't win out,

(14:26):
I didn't win the Big ten titles. So I was you know,
I had to as a freshman.One thing that I hindsight felt that I
was able to do that helped mewin successively throughout the years. You know,
and I have a senior year that'suncharacteristic, that's not at that level,

(14:46):
but I still have I mean itall encompassing. It was a good
year, but four good years.I always tried to find something that got
me fired up for the next year, and one of them was what I
told ye earlier, people saying mcdonah. He's good, but like he just
that we look at his look athis He fell fell into that championship like

(15:09):
he just had to. He justhad to not stumble. That's all he
did. So that was one.But number two was and you were on
a national championship team. You werea national champion, but you didn't win
the big tens. You gotta winthose, you have to. So I
put a pretty big emphasis on that. And you know, I end up

(15:31):
wrestling the Midlands and I'm thinking aboutbig tens and I lose to this guy
with the naven, Brandon Priestson,who I knew was going to be tough,
but I hadn't wrestled him, andup to that point, I hadn't
wrestled anybody that's that grippy. Hewas very, very grippy, very like
he grabbed you and you couldn't gethim off. He wasn't that he was

(15:52):
overwhelmingly strong, like I couldn't matchhis strength at all. It was just
that he was so like you.He grabbed a hold of you and you
couldn't really unstick yourself and he justyou know, he handled me in the
mid Midland finals, and that wasvery humbling. That was like a miniature
reset. And then he's beating meup in the duel meet. And some

(16:14):
people know this. People who knowme or know I werestling well know this.
In the duel meet, approximately amonth after Midlands, he was throttling
me. I mean he was beatingme either four to zero or five to
zero or five to one, Imean a healthy margin in the third period,
mind you. And I threw himin a left handed headlock and pinned

(16:37):
him in the third period at Northwesternin their home gym. So I'm getting
like pretty much manhandled the whole match. After losing to him before, people
were like, oh man, okay, So and I threw him in that
and that was kind of the youknow, relighting the fire of all right,
kind of like the escabido thing,all right, but instead of losing

(17:00):
getting fired up, I'm winning andlike, all right, I'm on a
run, like I'm I'm I'm backon. I got my juju back,
and uh I went out the restof the year. I wrestle in the
big tens at Northwestern, mind you, and battle my way to the finals.

(17:22):
Can't remember who I wrestled in thein the uh Semis but I battle
my way to the finals and Igot Brandon Preessen again, and this time
it's different because this time now we'reone and one and I knew exactly where
he was going, and we wrestleda really gritty, call it boring,
just very low scoring match, andI still remember. You might even interviewed

(17:47):
me after the match, but Istill remember being in the end of the
match and I got it on ashot. It's one of the few times
you are able because of the wayit's going, You're able to think in
the moment. Like a lot ofwrestle is done instinctively, especially if you've
trained hard. You're not really likethinking while you're wrestling. You're just doing.
But I got it on this legattack, and I knew it was
going to be hard, and Iwas like, no, f and way

(18:11):
am I walking off this mat withoutthis takedown. And I willed myself to
the takedown and I wrote them outand I end up, you know,
I end up winning the Big Tentitle. And so I checked that box
and that was freaking awesome. Littlefun fact about that, that was Penn

(18:32):
State's first Big Ten title. Itwas eleven, correct, twenty eleven.
I believe it was decided by whatI want to say, a half of
one point, smallest margin ever,like insane are Yeah, I think maybe
we shared it one year, butlike tiniest margin ever up to that point.
They beat us and then I endup going to the Nationals and you

(18:56):
know, me and me and Priesthad bet each other up all year,
and Robos is on the opposite side, and so I set up to wrestle
them again in the semis, andI fight my way to the semis,
and it's almost an identical match,just a little cleaner for me. This
time. I get a little lessof a gritty takedown and more of a

(19:18):
just a well timed single leg,and I beat them again. And that's
I made myself to the finals.And you know that that obviously I lose
in the finals, but that wasvalidation for me getting back to the finals.
And I had full intentions of goingand winning the finals. But that
was in and of itself, thatwas validation that, like, hey,

(19:40):
everybody, I belong here. I'mlegit. You know, I'm consistently tough.
Whether or not there was very manypeople who doubted me. I don't
know. You got to make thatstuff up in your brain. Though.
If you want to be a champion, you got to find things to get
you fired up, because it doesn'tjust happened just naturally by the stars aligning

(20:04):
right like you got to. Yougotta will yourself to have that that little
that little tick in your brain thatdrives you. What are what are some
of the things you did, Matt, I mean you talk about some of
the you know, losses where youwould use that or in the case when
you want it as a as ared shirt freshman, he didn't maybe beat

(20:26):
all the top dogs, so peoplemaybe hell he fell into this one.
Any other things that you remember doingthat to make the switch flip. I
was very lucky, you know,having tomentary Brands. They are legends competitively,
they know how to win, theyknow how to train people. They're

(20:48):
lightweights, right. I had theperfect I had the perfect examples in front
of me, and Tom and TerryBrands were very I don't want to say
hard on me, like woe isme, but they they rode me,
and I wouldn't want it any otherway. They knew how to coach me,
they knew I needed somebody, andthey didn't ride me like I was

(21:11):
doing things wrong, but they rodeme like, hey, everything right all
the time because they knew that.That's what I thrived on, is if
I if I had quality training allthe time and I knew I was getting
the best training, I had ultimateconfidence when I stepped on that mat.

(21:36):
And some people operate differently than that, right, Some people need to have
a less stress in their training andbe very relaxed and have fun with it.
And some people need to train reallyreally hard but then have downtime and
then train really really hard to havedowntime. I was like, because I

(21:56):
was weight cutting too. I waslike, mister, just just keep just
keep going, NonStop, always doingsomething. You know, practice was over.
I wasn't done with practice. Imight be done on the wrestling mat
because I don't need to beat mybody up, but I was going into
the weight room for an extra tenminutes. I was jumping on the air
dine for fifteen minutes. I wasdoing some extra rope climbs or this or

(22:18):
that, or you know, Iwas regularly the last person out of there,
and that, absolutely, no questionabout it, had an effect on
my success level, you know.And and it's funny because Terry Brands always
talks about no leave, no stoneunturned. Right, what do you if

(22:38):
you'd one little thing? You doyou have that? I mean, there's
a story. This is legit.This was after. This was not when
I was competing, Right, Iwas in college, but I was not
competing. We were, I wantto say, in council bluffs. So
what grade are you in? Areyou like a true freshman? I'm like

(22:59):
a This would be like I believelike I'm after my freshman year after I
won it. We're we're helping MikeZadik prepare because I obviously wrestled with Mike
Zadek at that point, he wasstill competing and we were on the same
size, and I was, youknow, recently very successful lightweight. So
why wouldn't you want to train withme and beat me up and help me
get better, help him get better. But he's wrestling for a world team

(23:26):
and we're sitting down. I couldbe wrong on the on the timeline,
but let's let's call it. Thiswas the timeline. We're sitting down at
lunch, me, Terry, anda couple other bnbe postgraduate this and that.
We get all this food and Iget a cookie, I get a
cookie at the like as we're paying, right, I add a cookie to

(23:48):
the to the bill as we're payingat the front counter. We get some
lunch, and then we're leaving,walking out, I'm getting ready to eat
this cookie and he's like, looksover at me. He's like, you
want to you want to be aworld champ. You're not gonna eat that
cookie. You don't need that cookie. What do you need that cookie for?
You want to be a world champ? And I'm like, Terry,
He's like, if you want tobe a world now, Granted he's messing

(24:11):
with me, but he's also knowswhat makes me tick, and he knows
like I'm obviously cutting weight, notall the time, but I'm I'm trying
to be extremely healthy. And I'mlike fine, and I freaking toss it
in the trash can straight up,hadn't even taken a bite yet, had
not taken a bite, just boughtthis cookie, and for better for worse.

(24:34):
Those were the little things that helpedme realize when it's like no stone
unturned, what if that cookie?The cascade of effects of having that one
cookie mentally, psychologically, physically pausedme to do other things that then you
know took me further away. Sowhen we talk about and people talk about

(25:00):
I ar wrestling me in fanatics,but it's everywhere. It's just how you
present it. But everybody who's achampion to some extent is a fanatic,
right, they do more than therest. Winning doesn't just happen by accident.
Winning doesn't just happen by the mosttalented. Yes, talent is a
factor, Ben Askern would argue withyou argue with me, by the way,

(25:23):
you know that natural talent doesn't existto him. But the ability to
learn quickly is absolutely a factor.But there's a certain factor of that.
And he taught me, you know, Terry Brandstan that. Tom Brands of
course too, but I distinctly rememberhim teaching me that. And those guys,

(25:47):
I mean, they they steered mein the right direction constantly towards how
I was gonna find my my nicheor success. And for me, it
was just always about outworking people,just outworking them, just the old school,
boring way. And that takes meto the point of Tom Brands.

(26:11):
And you would tell this to theteam guys. Recipe for success pretty damn
simple, Okay, It's the actof doing what that recipe entails that's hard.
You outwork everybody, and that's notjust physically putting in more hours and

(26:33):
breaking your body, but just inevery factor you outwork everybody, very high
probability you're going to succeed. Right. What were some areas Matt from a
work ethic standpoint that might go underthe radar that maybe most people wouldn't think
of. I mean, going intothe wrestling room. We all know that

(26:55):
the number one number one, unequivocallyvisualization. And I'm not talking you lay
down and you have a coach therewalking you through matches. I'm talking you're
sitting in fin classroom and you're boredof hearing what they're saying, and you're
just watching yourself. You're just inyour mind watching yourself wrestle moves over and

(27:18):
over. I can't remember. Iwatched an interview, and I believe maybe
John Smith was talking about it inan interview, an old interview of how
when he was wrestling, like hewas just like he was thinking through these
moves and not like in the momentof doing the moves, but like all
day, every day when he wasat his peak, was just working through

(27:41):
it. And you only have that, and he's so right in this.
You only really have that when youare the one competing, When you are
the one in the moment as acoach, you can't. You don't visualize
that quite that same way because it'snot you in the moment competing, chasing

(28:03):
those dreams of your own physical self, you know, in that circle.
And I think that's the number onething that people don't realize. That is
a massive factor, because not onlydo you learn and progress so much when

(28:26):
you visualize, you know the thingsyou're learning because you're learning from high level
coaches all across the country. Soyou're learning good techniques. But there's only
so many reps you can do.Your body can handle right of practice,
but how many reps can you getin your brain? There's no limit,
There is no limit whatsoever. Soand I'm willing to bet, you know,

(28:52):
call me crazy, but I'm willingto bet an overwhelming majority of the
best wrestlers, the ones that areconstantly at the top two year are doing
some form of visualization, unstructured unstructuredjust on their own. They're not even
necessarily setting aside time, it's justthey're just when they have moments of mental

(29:15):
downtime, their brain starts to wanderinto a place of you know, the
the arena, the arena in theirhead. That's what's the most impactful conversation
you ever had with Tom Brands?Oh? Man, there's there's a few,
but I don't I don't know ifI have any one conversation. But

(29:45):
I mean probably that recruiting story thatI told you where he at the table.
I mean this is because it wasthe first one. It's probably why
it was most impactful why I choseIowa. Maybe he stood across the table
and I can't remember if I askedit or if my mom asked it.
I might have asked that, youknow, coach, you got this guy
and this guy and this guy andthis guy, and they're all lightweight's,
Like, where do you see mein fitting? Like what weight do you

(30:08):
want me at? What weight doyou see me fitting in your lineup?
And he's you know, I don'tcare what weight you go. I don't
care who's at your weight. Iwant guys who are gonna, you know,
who are going to compete to benational champions in my lineup on my
team. And I think you're thatkind of guy. And that was like,

(30:30):
oh wow. Like when you're gettingrecruited, you're always thinking about,
all right, what weight am Igoing? Who's it this weight? You
know? What? Where do Ifit in? What gears are these guys?
You know? How? What aremy what are What's what's my most
straightforward path to being a the guyand be having success? And when he

(30:53):
said that, it completely flipped mymentality upside down because now was like,
I don't give a crap who isat any room I'm looking at going to.
I care about the coaching staff andthe overall environment that I think I'm

(31:14):
gonna win in. And once onceI heard that and it marinated in my
brain long enough, it was prettystraightforward, like, man, I want
to go here. These guys,you know, they want champions here.
I want to be a champion.I'm going to go here, and I'm
going to follow their guidance because Ican win. What's the toughest conversation you

(31:38):
ever had a I mean probably youknow the conversations after that senior year.
There's private conversations, But after thatsenior year of just finding what the next

(32:00):
step in the journey is, whenyou fell short, when you have an
injury that you know, you needto fix when what you had planned on
your college career ending like and thatbridge to your international career being just gets

(32:21):
set on fire and you got tofind a new path, you know.
And there wasn't like one big sentenceor paragraph that Tom Brand said to me
that it was burned into my brain. It was a number, but it
was just you know, like,and I I feel for every one of

(32:42):
these seniors who has a hard timebecause this sport is unforgiving. And I
would say this to high schoolers too. You know, when you fall short,
especially as a senior, whether it'sin high school or in shoot eighth
grader and eighth grader, you fallshort. A senior in high school,

(33:02):
you fall short. Senior in college, you fall short. The most impactful
conversation in my one of my oneof the most impactfuls in my whole life,
was from my dad and it waswithin the last few years and it
was in a tough time in mylife. And he's, just like Matt,
life is long in the grand scheme, this problem will probably not be

(33:25):
the biggest problem you ever have inlife. And it was at the time
a very big problem, right,a very big problem. I'm already married,
I have kids, Like, it'sa big problem. And the older
I get, the more it's like, Man, those other problems I had,
those are great problems because that thatmeans you're striving for greatness and you're

(33:47):
falling just short. That doesn't meanyou're in a real, real bad spot
at the time. Yeah, andhindsight, could I go do it over
again and make some changes, Yeah, absolutely, But you learn so much
and you gain perspective when you gothrough those crappy moments, if you're willing

(34:09):
to remember them and reflect on themfor a constructive future. I don't think
everybody does that. I hope alot of people do that. I think
most do. But you just gotto hope, especially in the world of
sports, because we're all so competitivein the world of sports, you just

(34:32):
got to hope that not everybody takesit so serious that they forget that.
Like, man, there is alot to life, and you're going to
have bigger life problems than this,And if anything, this life problem is
going to help you overcome the biggerone that's going to come someday. When

(34:53):
you look back at your career,Matt and you had a phenomenal career,
I mean, it's unicorn career.What what was your go arnent moment?
Like, when was there a timein your career when you really had to
learn something about yourself? Man,these are these are good questions. Probably

(35:23):
you know a go earment moment forme, A good one was probably that
junior year I lost to Jesse Delgadoearly in the season and I was coming
off being second, and I wasunequivocally the number one wrestler in the country
because all those other guys had finallygraduated, and I was the number one
guy in the country. Roles andpriests and graduated, you know, those

(35:45):
are the other top two. Iwas second. I had never lost to
to Zach Sanders, so I feltpretty confident that, you know, I
was above him. And you getbeat by the freshman in Carver, my
only loss in Carver, my onlyloss ever in Carver in college, I

(36:06):
lost an Olympic Trials, my oneloss ever in Carver in college. And
I was beating him the majority ofthe match, and he did he he
mcdonnod me right. I know hedoesn't wrestle like Peo, but I was
beating him the majority of the match. He comes back on me late set
takes me to overtime, and thattakes me on an overtime and I still
remember, I will, I'll,I'll don't have to hide anything. I

(36:29):
remember running into the freaking tunnel atCarver and I found a corner and I
cried and whined and you know,sobbed right, felt big one sorry for
myself, like I was worthless.Then I got up and we had to
go wrestle. Iowa stayed on Sunday. We wrestled in Illinois on Friday.

(36:51):
I had to go wrestle. Iwas stayed on Sunday. I had to
come in Saturday morning. Talked toTom Brands and he wasn't hard on me.
There's steered me back right, likelisten, we're gonna go over to
have a state, You're gonna makeweight, you're gonna this is your guy.
We're gonna take care of business withhim, and then we're gonna move
on and then we'll start figuring outhow we're gonna, you know, get

(37:14):
you where you need to be.And that was kind of a go earn
it moment, was that Saturday morningof like you've just lost all of your
credibility as this figurehead for Iowa.You got beat by a freshman with no
with no credentials, right, justa hungry freshman. Now hindsight is a

(37:37):
two time national pretty good wrestler tooended up being right pretty good wrestler.
But that was an important moment becauseyou know, I'm I'm far from perfect,
and I certainly don't see myself asan extraordinarily skilled wrestler, like,

(37:57):
you know, beyond what anybody else. My edge was always my mentality and
my willingness to go to deep waterand wrestling matches to just go into absolute
exhaustion mode and just keep walking backto the center and wrestling through it.
And I didn't do it in thatmatch, and so for me, it

(38:19):
was like, you gotta, allright, You've got to get back to
that mode where it's like no personwill ever out wrestle me come the end
of the match. And you know, moving forward, I had a lot
of dominating wins, and then youknow, I get into the National Duels,

(38:40):
which were at Oklahoma State, andI have a rematch with Delgado and
I beat him in a tough,gritty match, and then very quickly after
because you know what national duels usedto be, very quickly after Big Tens,
and I got them in the semifinals of Big Tens because of the

(39:00):
way the seeds worked, and Iend up beating him in a very close
smatch in Big Tens, and thenin Nationals he actually ends up getting beat
in the quarters and I ended upbeat russelling the guy who beat him in
the semis and making the finals.And you know, just those little things

(39:22):
that don't really stick out to otherpeople, or it's funny you asked that,
because that sticks out to me,and like, you know, I
won't I won't be bashful. Iwas a whiny, sabby, cry little
baby after losing a match because Iwas competitive and I got I got bush
whacked. I didn't think I wasgonna lose that match. I thought,

(39:44):
sh fresh, when I got this, we'll see how good he is.
And he surprised me. Who doyou beat, Matt? Your junior year?
Was that Megalutas? Yeah, Megalalutas. Yes. I had some scrub.
I had a I had the tripto Ohio State followed by Penn State,

(40:06):
where I wrestled true freshman Johnny toJulius, I want to say,
four to zero, and I wasso mad because it again it was like
the same thing, right, It'slike wrestling Dogato, except instead of losing,
they're winning. So that's nice,but you're like, I'm a junior
two time finalist, I should bethrottling these guys. And he'll even tell

(40:31):
you he was so sticky. Hegrabbed your elbows and he'd hunk her into
where you couldn't go. And soI, like, I couldn't figure out
how to take him own. Ittook me forever. Go to Sunday,
we got Penn State, which isthe Marquis duel in twenty twelve, and
me and Magnolutis end up somehow goingto freaking overtime because the same thing.

(40:52):
I couldn't take the guy down.I couldn't figure out how it's so tough
to score on maybe the best flexibilityI've ever seen. It was nice,
it was I want to say itwas one to one. We both had
gotten escapes very similar to our finalsmatch, and I ended up, you
know, I ended up beating himin overtime with a takedown and I got

(41:14):
off the mat, and of courseit was after that other one. So
at this point, I'm I'm sobeyond frustrated, but it's just like you
got the win and get your handraised, run off the mat, figure
it. Let's let's figure it outin practice this week. Clearly this wasn't
your top tier weekend. But again, these are two very skilled opponents.

(41:34):
Johnny de Julius was solid and NicoMagalutis. You know, it doesn't doesn't
need much introduction there. Clearly hasa lot of skills. But these were
freshmen at the time, and you'rejust like, god, dang, those
those were fun matches. It's funnelto reflect on. Obviously, it's more
fun to have the wins than thelosses, but you got to appreciate them
all. I remember it Duel meetyou and Megalalutis in Carver. I believe

(41:59):
that that senior year, that wasthe only time in my entire my entire
wrestling career, wrestling career that Iknow of. Someone can't correct me if
I'm wrong that I went to doubleovertime in my entire high school, middle

(42:22):
school, and college career that Iever went to do. How did that
match go? Again? Did didyou ride him out? Is that how
that went? You remember? Irode him out? Oh man, you're
making it. I believe it's whenit was not still just the one right
out, but it was right out. You did your first rideouts and then
maybe you had another. I don'tknow if you had another minute or what

(42:43):
you did, but anyway, Irode him out and then I got away
in the very last of it inwith you know whatever, ten seconds,
five eight seconds left something like that, broke away from him to win.
I think it was two to one. I was the most mimmorable duel in

(43:04):
Carver Hawkey probably that because of thegravity the duel. Unfortunately for me,
it was not my favorite match becausethat was my senior year. I felt
like crap. I was cutting alot of weight, you know, I
had some injuries, but it wassuch a huge duel, and I can't
remember if we came away from thewith the win or not. I think

(43:24):
we did that one and twenty thirteenthat season, my senior season, I
got the the double overtime win.That's when Ramos pinned, when ramosula bomb,
maybe one of the two. I'mrunning upstairs, you know, doing

(43:45):
my postmatch, little weight cut,just getting an extra sweat in for five
minutes, running in the wrestling room, and I hear exclose the raptors,
the whole white shaking it was,and and I had not been up there
very long. Tony Ramos comes up, you know Tony Ramos, and I'm
like when pin, I'm like,freaking ay man, Yes, what kind

(44:08):
of teammate was Ramos? He wasgreat. I mean we weren't like we
weren't like inseparable. I think therewas a little bit of competitiveness between us,
but he was always great. Youknow. We we trained plenty,
especially my junior year. My juniorand sophomore year we trained together quite a

(44:32):
bit. My senior year, Ididn't train with him as much. I
was hurt. I wish I wouldhave. I should have trained with him
more, just because he was agood partner for me, but just a
you know, a solid guy tohave, very similar to the way I
did things. Just you know,you work hard day in and day out.
The thing for him is that itwas hard for me is he wasn't

(44:52):
cutting a bunch of weight to makeone thirty three and I was cutting a
freaking assload, So that that wasa little bit. It's just the most
you ever cut, man, Like, what's the ever what's the most you
ever had to cut? To makea naked competition. I mean I've had
to lose. I had to loseclose to ten pounds within twenty four hours.

(45:14):
It wasn't fun. I wouldn't recommendit, you know. And some
people are like, I lose tenpounds. The difference is I was at
like six and a half percent bodyfat losing ten pounds, and I was
really good at sweating, So you'retalking like ten pounds of water just shaved

(45:35):
up. I have lost. Ihave had ten pound workouts before where I
lost ten pounds in a single workout, going from one hundred and thirty five
to right out one hundred and twentyfive pounds, and you can imagine how
the body feels after that. Whatsurprised you most with roblists, I mean

(46:01):
it's obvious, but it's not untilyou feel it. His strength, his
grip. I mean I would sayspecifically his grip. The strength is different
because you know he has one leg, so it's not like you're stand up
wrestling, right. He's on hisknee, So what you're really feeling is
his grip in his back and hispull into you. But when I say

(46:24):
his grip specifically on top, whenhe locked up that ball and chain.
You're like, I don't, howdo I And you start to go down
to grab for it, and allof a sudden you're getting rolled and you're
like, oh, man, Ican't get out of this. Yeah,
just his his strength, and Ithink the system with which he wrestled,

(46:45):
like he had very clear cut techniquesthat he hit that worked for him.
And it's just so hard and realtime to figure that out. And I
think it's why, for for betteror for worse. You know, I
had never wrestled him in the yearbefore or that year, and I think

(47:05):
that worked to his advantage. Butyou know, he just so strong,
so so well crafted with the techniqueshe did, his ball and chain and
just you know, getting a gettinga leg attack, takedown. He just
solid, solid competitor or rewarding.Was it to win as a junior get

(47:29):
back to the top of the podium, that's I mean. You know,
had I won as a as asophomore, I don't think it would have
significantly changed my demeanor as a junior, but it certainly was a very easy
catalyst towards extreme training mode and andemphasis on doing things the right way going

(47:57):
into my junior year. You lost, right, and you know, I
mixed emotions because you lost, notlike you had a let down, but
you lost to the Cinderella story,right that that's I mean. I put
that out there for what it's worth, you know. I I felt like

(48:17):
the world wanted to see Roblace win, whether or not that's true, just
like it was the story. Itwas like you're living in a in a
you know, a Cinderella story andyou're on the unfortunately receiving end. So
it wasn't that I didn't think Icould win or you know, wanted to

(48:38):
win, but it's almost like youshouldn't win. This is in that back
recess to your brain. You're like, no, I'm gonna freaking I'm gonna
I'm gonna ruin this guy's story.And then you lose and you're really upset.
It's like I was on the Iwas on the bad end of the
the story of the year and sportsand the deck games, you know,

(49:02):
but it just I turned it intowell, I'm gonna win it all.
I won Big Tens this year andI didn't win n series, dang it.
So my junior year I had todo it both, you know,
I had to. I had toclean house, and funny enough, I
got humbled because I wanted to goundefeated and I get back to the to

(49:22):
the Delgado that was. That wasone of my first ten matches of the
season, ten or twelve matches ofthe season, I lose and I was
aiming to go undefeated. I wonout the rest of the year, but
that was another humbling where you're like, well, you're not going undefeated this
year, but doug on it,you're gonna win out, and I won
out. Your career, Matt,is so unique from the standpoint that you

(49:45):
had so much success in those firstthree years, three finals, two national
titles. Can count the losses ona few fingers, that's it. And
then your senior year came and itis you know, the old it is
what it is. The circumstances ofthat season. You were injured. I

(50:07):
know, it's not an excuse.Nobody cares, nobody feels sorry for you.
It just reiterates just how damn toughit is to win at that level
because so many things gotta be right, and if a couple little things are
wrong, it's not good. Whenyou think back to that senior season,
just be super honest and vulnerable herelike, how tough was it? Like?

(50:30):
Mentally? Like what do you howtough was it in in the realm
of sport? It was absolutely thehardest thing I had to go through,
you know, in the seasons oflife. It was great. It prepared
me for other challenges in life likenothing else can. Because when you go

(50:53):
through something that includes controllable factors anduncontrollable factors and you have to navigate that
as a young adult and figure outhow to still succeed, you learn so
much. And you know, asyou know, being an adult, it

(51:17):
happens so much more once you getout of college and once you get into
the working world and you're then youhave a family and kids, and just
there's so many hard things and toughdecisions and a lot of times bad luck
that you just got to overcome.And my senior year was no exception to

(51:38):
that. I am no victim.I absolutely was in control of so much.
A few things were outside of mycontrol, and you know, I
let those few things outside of mycontrol dictate what I had the power to
change. And you know, I, for better or for worse, I

(52:00):
did what I knew how to dobest. I put my nose down,
and I just worked as hard asI could, and I probably did not
do When I say probably, Idefinitely did not do a good enough job
of really taking the time to plotand plan how I'm gonna still be successful
with some some challenges that you know, I can't change right now. I

(52:25):
have to deal with beaning injury,meaning I had to go on twenty five.
When I say had to, Imean I could have told everybody to
f off. But you know,my my junior year, I got first
in the country, and I believethat you're Tony Ramos got third in the
country at one thirty three. Soit's not like, hey, Tony,

(52:49):
You're gonna have to figure out whatto do this year. I'm I'm going
to you know, to one thirtythree. It wasn't gonna be like that.
And so my body was just mybody was over cutting weight. It
really was. I didn't it shouldn't, you know, day in and day
out. It was just it's sohard on your body when you're doing it

(53:09):
at an extreme level. And that'snot to mean that I couldn't do it.
I did it all year. That'snot to mean that my coaches didn't
steer me in the right direction.It was just one of those things where
it's you know, just is whatit is, like you said, and
then the injuries, you know,those happened. I didn't handle myself right

(53:35):
in the in the summer, andI've now learned a tough lesson because of
that. But I don't I try. I try not to think about too
much of the actual moment of allthe distress I went through. I try
to think more about, like,all right, what did you learn from
this? And I certainly learned that, you know, you have to accept

(53:58):
certain things you can't change and carryon with a with a positive mind.
And then number two, you've gotto trust people that are trying to help
you and not think you're going todo things on your own. And I
wanted so badly to do things myway and do things, you know how

(54:24):
I had always done them in theprevious three years, and there was just
no way I was going to getit done that way, and I didn't
maybe adapt as good as I couldhave. What were you most proud of
when you look back at your career. I'm most proud that I, through

(54:50):
my entire college career, I consistentlybrought everything I had. I do not
remember a match or a tournament whereI was just kind of like I'm over
it. Yeah, I mean evenmy senior year. That's why I was
so painful, because I wanted itso badly, but I self destructed.

(55:15):
I thought my way into the problemsbeing more debilitating than they were. But
I'm most proud that, you know, from day one until my last day,
you know, wrestling for Iowa,I I put everything I had into

(55:37):
it, for better or for worse, and you know, you cannot feel
too bad about that, no matterhow the outcome is. And that's what
I tell kids that I coach,kids that I mentor college athletes that I
crossed paths with, Like, ifyou do it all one hundred percent doesn't

(55:58):
mean you're gonna do everything right.I'm not saying that do everything right,
because no one can do everything rightall the time, But if you invest
yourself fully, whether you win orlose, you can't ever feel regret,
Like, are there things I wouldgo back and redo a little better?
Of course? But do I regretlike, man, you really didn't do

(56:19):
your self service. No, youknow, how much could I significantly change
things if I knew that I wasfully invested the whole time, so that's
probably the most part of it.It's the wins and the losses. I
mean, those are just validation,right. You hear lots of people talk
about it. Truly is it's awesome, but it's just validation that the work

(56:42):
you put in is showcased with somekind of quantitative prize. But the real
prize is the wisdom and the knowledgeyou gain and how it carries you on
moving forward. Final question, andI wish we could do this every week.

(57:05):
I mean I wish I could haveevery single week. I could talk.
We just need to start talking aboutother people wrestling, so we can
sit on our little toadstools and giveour thoughts on other people's life. Let
me ask you this. Let meask you two more questions because you talked
about something on the cow ride earliertoday and I want the world to hear
your two cents on this. Youare pretty fired up about David Taylor going

(57:29):
to Oklahoma State. Give us yourthoughts. If you aren't fired up about
it, and I'll say this asa Hawk fan, Hawk fan or not,
then you are doing a disservice tothis sport because there is nothing better
in wrestling than the best of us, being in positions to continue to elevate

(57:52):
college wrestling. And I said itin the car, No matter what,
there is so much positive to himgoing there. For first of all,
he's an incredibly talented and prized wrestlerwho's done so much. Second of all,

(58:12):
he's going to an historical college thatis investing in wrestling. Does that
bad for all the other schools?No, Hopefully it tells all these other
schools, hey invest in greatness andyou have a chance. Now that's yet
to be seen because number three,he has no coaching pedigree at all.
Right now, I'm not saying hedone club. He's got the club I

(58:37):
know he has, but in collegelike, it's not like he's done what
most people do, which is gothrough the ranks to some extent. You
know, he's doing what Kle Sandersondid. He's just like jumping straight into
I'm running an organization. I don'tI don't think. I'm pretty sure Kyle
Sanderson maybe a year of being anassociate that a couple of years may then

(59:00):
boom he's the head coach. Hehad success quickly, and I was standing
what I'm saying, Yeah, there'sa lot of unknown there. I know
everyone wants to say, oh,it's done. Deal. I the chances
are very high, very high chancesthat Oklahoma State does just fine with a
guy like David Taylor. But that'swhat's fun is it's such a good wrestler

(59:22):
and all of a sudden he justjust got to take over such a good
program. But you don't really know, like, well, what has he
done in college coaching up to Youdon't really know what he's gonna do because
he does, there's nothing to lookback on and go, oh, well,
you know it's not like but youwould bet Matt correct me if I'm
wrong. You would bet a goodchunk of your financial wealth he's gonna have

(59:46):
success. Like if he's there wasa money line on like them being inside
of the top ten next year.I would put my entire net worth on
them being inside of the top tennext year, just because they hired him.
Because with this new nil and thisnew ability to get transfers, and

(01:00:08):
that's a whole other debate we cantalk about another time, This new ability
to do things. I mean we'retalking one, maybe two years to beginning
a team where it's like maybe you'renot quite at the national championship caliber,
but you are searching. You aresearching for a trophy. Yes, absolutely,
it does not take long with theright staff, the right funding,

(01:00:32):
and the right kids in your room. And I think it's awesome. I
think it's only going to elevate allof college wrestling. And anyone who thinks
otherwise is either scared or jealous.One of the I think he'll knock get
out of the park. There.You're scared or jealous? I mean,

(01:00:55):
how would you not if you're lookingat it objectively awesome. If I was
a head coach at a top university, I'd be like, this is awesome.
I just got I just got allthe motivation. I need double down
on my efforts to get these kidsto develop my room, to get after
it, because man, there's anotherthere's another cowboy in town, right,

(01:01:20):
no pun intended, but it's awesome. You know. I'm excited to see
how it pans out, and I'mexcited to see how it affects. Maybe
the most exciting thing for me,being an Iowa guy, is that Penn
State's got you know, they're runningthe show, and I don't. I
don't like to see that I don'twant to see that. I don't lie
do. I like to see goodwrestlers win, of course, but I

(01:01:43):
want to see Iowa win or Atthis point, I just want to see
more of a challenge every year.And now you just took arguably the most
prestigious athlete that Cale has ever made, and you just bop him into a
top level program. We might startto see the power start to shift,

(01:02:08):
maybe not just to Oklahoma State,but at least disperse, at the very
least start to start to disperse alittle bit more. I mean, look
at it. You look at lookat wrestling the last from a coaching standpoint,
that that, you know, someof the bigger moves in the last
fifty years. You got Dan Gable, Russell's at Iowa State goes to Iowa.

(01:02:28):
Then you have uh Tales at IowaState goes to Penn State. Now
you got David tayl Or Penn Stateto Oklahoma State. I mean, it's
it's awesome, Yes it is.He's if he's doing it for the right
reasons. And I gotta hope heis. You know, I've been around
the guy that man was made tobe in wrestling for his entire life.

(01:02:52):
If he's if he's doing this forthe right reasons, and you gotta hope
it's not because they gave him abag. I'm sure they gave him a
very healthy sum of money. ButI hope he's doing it because this is
the perfect opportunity for me to becomegreat in the next stage of my life,
which is coaching. Then I'm I'mso excited to see it happen.

(01:03:15):
You know, he's not coming totake second place, right, I mean,
he's coming to win. No,But that's Here's the other thing that
this will be interesting to see ishe's never been used to to losing,
you know, and I'm not talkinglike, oh he's lost to Dick.
He's lost a lot of great wrestlersand gotten second a few times. Like

(01:03:37):
there's a large pool of very good, uh, very good programs out there.
There's no guarantee he's going to beright in the championship fold right away,
like it's going back. But maybethat's what's cool. He's a born
winner. Maybe he KOs Anderson didchange so much quicker now with with with

(01:03:58):
the transfer portal. I mean,you can make come. It's the wild
West, y, it is exactly, no doubt. You got a national
champion in the portal ten years ago. What national champion in the portal?
No freaking way. He's like theking of his campus. Yes, ye,
his college. There's no benefit forhim to leave now at a small

(01:04:23):
school unfortunately, like Northern Colorado,you got a guy who has won it
coming off an Olympic red shirt,going hmmm, I can make a pretty
big impact somewhere. And I'm we'rejust talking from our purchase. I don't
know the inside story. Maybe there'sa reason he left, but well we
know this, Matt. I mean, I think nil and the transfer portal,

(01:04:46):
it is fantastic. For the athletes, it's great. I get it.
I won't fault these guys for anything, but for college wrestling, this
is horrible. Like this is notalthough you know what, though, Matt,
I would say this, I findmy it's horrible. It's horrible,
horrible. It is in many ways, but like anything else, there's some
positives. I mean, we're talkingabout somebody stuff. Okay. So the

(01:05:08):
one and only thing that I thinkis very nerve racking about the transfer portal
one, I don't like the wayit's dispersing the championship abilities. I mean,
look at Northern Colrado, pretty solidteam. Team just went down big
time, big time. Ye atthe small school they don't have a lot

(01:05:30):
of success and probably other sports,and that put you know, a big
star onto their wrestling program. Forwhat Troy Nickerson does in boom, bigger
schools, bigger money. That's whyyou have to Again, I don't know
the reasons he left, but yougot to assume that there's a factor of
that that's unfortunate. But the otherpart that I worry about, how sustainable

(01:05:50):
is it for a non major sportlike wrestling to continue to fund these athletes
from outside sources. Right We're talkingabout stuff right now that is a sore
subject and it's touchy because what NILis supposed to be and what it's being

(01:06:13):
used as and what's legal what's notlegal. But let's be honest. You
and I both know that there arekids getting paid a large sum of money
for nothing more than to go toa school. They are not being used
by advertising like the NIL intends.They are not going out and selling their
T shirts, They are not doinga bunch of wrestling camps. They are

(01:06:35):
literally getting checks for being at acollege. Now, how does it work,
I don't know. But when you'regetting paid a mass amount of money
and the program's not bringing in amass amount of money, that's quite literally
just a donation and there's no returnon investment. How long is that going

(01:06:59):
to allow? Asked? And howmany schools can do it? So my
worry is that it very largely decreasesover the course of you know, years
and years, decreases the pool ofcollege absolutely. Next thing, you know,
we're at the national Tournament with twentyfive teams. Yeah, and they're
all powerhouses and it's fun as heckto see who's going to do it this

(01:07:21):
year. But it's basically the pros. How many pro baseball teams are their
football paint. That's exactly what itwas, Yes, and that's what I
worry about. But man, that'sthat's for another subject. We could talk
at length about that. That's youknow, I just like seeing kids get
the chance to do what they thinkis best for them. I think that

(01:07:45):
no doubt about it. Though.The transport portal great for kids, challenging
for wrestling as a whole, andI'm pretty sure that a vast majority of
coaches and fans ends would be okaywith some regulations, more regulations to the
NAL, some more, some moreclearly difoundaries, rules, boundaries, transparency.

(01:08:14):
Yeah, we'll see how it happens. I mean, we'll see what
happens. And you know, inthe meantime, we'll keep enjoying the US
dominating the world and these these athletesacross the country dominating. It's fun to
watch. I promised this is thelast question. I promise, all right,
Matt. So, this is thefirst time I've ever asked this question

(01:08:39):
on this podcast. When I dida sports talk show, I would have
this as a show topic once ayear and it was a lot of fun.
And I read this. I gotthis idea from an ESPN article I
read probably twenty years ago where theguy asked the question. He wrote,
I believe, and he wrote Ibelieve, and he had like probably a

(01:09:01):
hundred things. So I'm gonna askyou. This can be wrestling, not
wrestling, this could be anything Ibelieve. So you I believe you finishing
you know, you you tell mewhat you believe? What is I believe?
What about anything? Anything you want? How would you finish that sentence?

(01:09:25):
Ha? This goes to my buddyto Brad n Angel and Adam Feller's
I believe winners win. I loveit. Believe winners win. Hey,
there's you can dissect that so much, right, I gotta I got a

(01:09:45):
couple of marathon medals here. Uhyeah, what made you start doing the
marathons? I forgot about that.You've done a few of those now,
right. I'm always I've always beena good runner. I've just never done
it, you know, with anycompetitive nature to it. And you just
like you, you're coming off onethat you broke a broke a goal right

(01:10:05):
under a few hours or something likethat. Yeah, So I ran a
marathon unduring COVID on short story toend this all. I ran a marathon
undering COVID on my own right.A few other people randomly did it after
me. I don't some probably didit before. But in Madison with a
buddy, I made up a route, did it, had a buddy with

(01:10:27):
a bicycle ride next to us,with waters and some you know, some
snacks. Four hours. I rana marathon in four hours. No,
hardly any training. Was not happywith four hours, but I did it.
I just that was all. Mygoal was just to finish it.
So I finished it shit four hours. That was rough. Fast forward to

(01:10:48):
whatever twenty twenty two. So twentytwenty to twenty two and a half years
later, and I should run amarathon and actually train and see how fast
I can run it. And thenI have a buddy who's big into marathons,
and he said, do this desmoin marathon with me. I said,
all right, said I'm training toqualify for Boston, and I'm like,

(01:11:10):
I don't care about that, Likewhat do I care. I'm just
trying to do better. And threehours is the mark to go to Boston,
and I'm like, all right,let's do it. I'm gonna train
with you. I'm gonna see howfast I can go. I don't really
care about Boston, but I'd liketo see if I can do a three
hour marathon because that's like, it'skind of a prestigious mark. If you
can do a sub three marathon,you're you're a fast runner. And I
ended up doing a two fifty andthen I was like, I gotta go

(01:11:34):
to Boston. So then last fall, because you qualify like a year and
a half in advance, I wantedto do another marathon, so I did
another one, and I got atwo fifty nine. Didn't train nearly as
much. We got a two fiftynine. And this Boston when I got
a two fifty eight, So youknow, it's winners win. I go

(01:11:55):
back to my wrestling mentality, likeI am going to do a three hour
marathon, and I did it intwo fifty and then I have two more
marathons, and now what have Idone. I've set the bar that you
have to run sub threes every timeyou run. Now, the first one
felt good because I trained really perfect. Everything was good. I ran two
fifty feeling awesome. Those other twoI felt like death, But dog got

(01:12:20):
it. I set up to doa three hour marathon, and I was
within reach of it because you're alwaystired in the marathon right at the end
of the last few miles. Iset out to do it. I'm not
stopping winners win man. That's Imean. I believe winners win. I
believe people who who have the willto do it will themselves to victory.

(01:12:46):
And that's truly how it works.That's fantastic. Now you got to run
Boston, Matt you have to.No, I did? I did.
I guess where I got on tothe DA. Yes you did Boston.
I didn't know that you met.Our last podcast was a I want to
say, like whatever day I ranBoston. No more than a week and

(01:13:10):
a half after we talked. Ohwow, wells man, Yeah, man,
I didn't realize. I mean Isee I see on Facebook and social
media stuff, but I knew youdidn't. But I didn't realize you just
did the Boston Marathon. Damn.You know what. That's awesome. Man,
what there's thirty thousand people. I'mnothing, you know, I just
if you know what I want todo right now? Just smack you.

(01:13:30):
Yeah, I'd reached through this likeyou're just smack you. What is it
with guys like you? They justcan't ever sit back there? You know
what. I just kicked ass atthis thing like you. I mean,
you ought to be super proud ofyourself. That that's hard to do.
Like it's really national titles, Matt'shard to do. Hey, you know
why? You want to know whyI don't because I believe winners win,

(01:13:55):
And once you sit back and startpatting yourself on the back too much,
you forget like you got to keepwinning. You got to keep winning.
Like when I say I believe winnerswin. I'm not talking about wrestling.
I'm not talking about running marathon.I'm talking about everything like winners win.
I'm talking about like we talked aboutmy job. We don't have to get
into that, but winning the bigbusiness deal right, and there's win.

(01:14:18):
If you will yourself to it timeand time again, you'll win more more
than not. Now, don't anybodylistening to this, please do not carry
that to the casino, because Iwill not work. Winers do not.
It's not how it works. Tothe casino. You will lose all your
money. You will say, Matt, you're a liar. But in general,

(01:14:42):
you know, if you will yourself, I believe winners win. That
is fantastic. Adam Adam Fellers andAdam Fellers and Brad Nagel. They give
me a T shirt. I gotthe t You got the T shirt.
You probably do got the T shirtabsolutely, Matt. I leave you with
this this Sunday, May twelfth,Matt mcdonnet's or i'ms thirty four years old.

(01:15:05):
Happy birthday, and make this nextyear your best one ever. This
has been awesome. I love you, Matt. You know that you'll always
have a special place in my heart. It is eleven twenty one, and
I take time because you didn't haveto do this. This is extremely generous

(01:15:27):
of you, and I you know, thank you just doesn't do it any
justice. But I love it.Hey, I love this all. I
could talk for hours. We'll doit again. We'll go in it,
go inn it, baby, Ilove it. It's been great talking.
I love this sport. I lovewhat it's done for me, and the
more people can see it, thebetter