January 14, 2025 • 44 mins
Lehigh head wrestling coach Pat Santoro joined the show to discuss his journey as an athlete and mentor. A two-time NCAA champion and four-time All-American at Pitt, Santoro reflected on the mental and physical growth that defined his wrestling career, from early struggles in high school to his breakthrough moments at Blair Academy and Pitt. He emphasized the importance of courage, belief, and embracing challenges, recounting how pivotal mindset shifts fueled his success. Santoro also shared his philosophy on developing athletes, stressing the value of enjoying the sport and continuously learning, both on and off the mat.
In addition to wrestling insights, Santoro delved into personal stories, such as his connection to faith and how it shaped his life during college. He highlighted the influence of mentors like Rande Stottlemyer and celebrated the camaraderie of his Pitt teammates. Santoro’s passion for wrestling extends to his current role at Lehigh, where he inspires his team to “lay it on the line” and embrace every opportunity. With reflections on dual meets, rule changes, and the evolving nature of the sport, the conversation offered a compelling glimpse into Santoro’s impact as a coach and leader.
In addition to wrestling insights, Santoro delved into personal stories, such as his connection to faith and how it shaped his life during college. He highlighted the influence of mentors like Rande Stottlemyer and celebrated the camaraderie of his Pitt teammates. Santoro’s passion for wrestling extends to his current role at Lehigh, where he inspires his team to “lay it on the line” and embrace every opportunity. With reflections on dual meets, rule changes, and the evolving nature of the sport, the conversation offered a compelling glimpse into Santoro’s impact as a coach and leader.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast, where we bring
you stories each week of people who have battled through adversity,
overcame the obstacles, and earned their dream. You were born
for greatness and our mission is to bring you the
stories that will inspire you to dream big and go
earn it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast. I'm your host.
Shane Sparks is always super excited for the guests that
we have on this podcast, and we welcome in the
longtime head coach for the Lehigh Mountainhawks, coach Pat Santoro
was a four time All American at Pitts, won a
couple of national titles for the Panthers. Coach Santoro happy
(00:47):
to have you here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
How are you, I'm doing great, Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I want to start with Darien Cruz because we had
Darien on it a few episodes back, and he talked
about different things, things that you would say to him
to get his mind right, get him loose, get him relaxed.
I thought it was fascinating. So my first question out
of the gate to you is, and you've been coaching
a long long time, what are a few conversations, and
(01:13):
I want you to be you know, be don't be
humble on this one. Okay, give me two or three
conversations that you have had with athletes that you believe
paid the highest dividends that really made a difference that
maybe at the time he didn't expect it to be
as impactful as it was.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean with a couple of guys.
I know, I'm a big believer. If you're trained in
the fire, you get thrown in the fire, nothing changes.
So just kind of keep yourself close to the fire
all the time. You're always prepared for that, right, so
when the match gets heated up, that's where you want
to be. And I guess the other one. I guess
I'm really big on courage because you know, confidence can
be shaken, right and hear it all the time. But
(01:54):
if you have courage to trust your training and trust
your abilities, you'll find your confidence went in the match,
so you can you can have a lot of doubt
going in, but doubts just those are normal natural things.
Those are necessary things because it builds up nerves, and
kind of nerves are a good thing. My dad always
told me a little bit of nerves are really good
and so I believe. You know, everybody has a little
bit of doubt. Doubt does not equal disbelief. So those
(02:15):
are pretty much the message we have to our team.
And if you can you understand what doubt is, then
you can wrestle really free and just let it fly.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
How did you get involved in wrestling?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I just wanted to be by my big brother. So
I had a brother that wrestled for Lehi was a
three time All American. He was actually probably the better wrestler.
He was a two time state champ. Like, I just
want to be abound my brother Rich. He was awesome, right,
so he he would go to practice. I'm like, I
want to be with him, and pretty much I went
to the wrest and this is probably a blessing because
I wasn't very good. But when I went to the restroom,
(02:47):
I was you know, wald wall matts. It was a
playground for me. So I always looked as a wrestlroom
as a playground and as you know, eventually start learning
in the playground. But I think as it's a fun time,
it's a game.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
How old were you when you started wrestling?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Probably, and you know, but I was, like I said,
I think I probably wrestled three matches that year, and
the next year I think I wrestled maybe ten. You know,
I wasn't one of those guys that was all year round.
I you know, I played baseball, I played soccer, I
ran cross country. I did a lot of different sports.
Wrestling was always something I loved, but I thought it
was gonna be a center fielder for the Phillies. Then
I got in news to the curb ball in ninth grade.
(03:20):
I said, all right, I'm gonna stick with wrestling a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So how do you stay in love with the sport?
You talked about growing up playing multiple sports. I'm a
big believer in that because I think the reality is
for ninety nine percent of us, you know, to think
you're gonna be this big d one superstar. I just
think maybe that energy is dis you know, not in
the right direction at times. How did you stay in
(03:42):
love with the sport and how do you coach staying
in love with the sport?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I don't know. I just for me, it was just
something I just felt. It was always something to learn.
I just remember having a lot of growing moments. A
lot of it was mental to Obviously there's some physical
technical stuff. I wasn't a very technical wrestler growing up,
and I was very physically immature. I think I weighed
ninety five pounds. Coming in my freshman year, I was
a JV guy, saw Mere. I was one oh five.
(04:07):
I was still a JV guy, but our starter couldn't
make the wait anymore. So I became a starter. And
then my junior year, I think that was probably I
always talked about there's always defining moments in your career.
That was probably. It was a mental defining moment for me.
I shared this with that camps and stuff, but I
was going. I had a really pretty good junior year,
(04:28):
went to regionals and I took fourth. Only three go
to States, and I just remember it was Liberty Gym
right here in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, sitting against Jim in tears,
and I remember looking at my knee pad and looking
at my sock and saying, it's not my lucky neepad,
it's not my lucky sock, it's me. I got to
make a change. And I always worked hard, but it
was just had to make a mental change on how
I approached the sport. And I didn't get results immediately.
(04:49):
It took a couple of years before it was sort
of becoming noticeable. I mean, my senior year, I was
fortunate I qualified for the States place third, but I
wasn't a big recruit or anything. It was just something
I was really so and to figure out in my mind,
and it would help me grow as an athlete. And
I think I take the same thing to coaching. There's
always something to learn.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Do you remember anything more specific on the on the
shift in mindset?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
No, that was it. It was it was me sitting
there and I had a teammate he actually was our
best wrestler, and I just remember sitting there him saying him,
I was like, you know, kind of being what you do,
you're kind of a baby. You're sitting there in tears,
and I just I can't believe my season's over. And
he just get a statement he goes or it's just beginning,
and that kind of stuck with me. You know, he
probably didn't remember saying it, but there's a shift. I mean,
it was just a shift. And I always, like I said,
(05:34):
I was worked hard, but I started really studying how
I was doing things right. And I had had some
really good high school coaches too, and I just started
paying attention. It just took a while for the development.
Then I did a postgraduate at Blair and I had
you know, Bob Latessa and Jeff Buster my coaches, and
then things just took off. I think I physically matured too,
and mentally I was maturing and things just took off
from there. And you know those everybody thinks with my blaurrier,
(05:58):
which that had a ton to do with It was
really the mindset I had that junior year in a
locker room by myself, right, So.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
What was it like? Wrestling for Coach Buxton.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Painful because he was young back then, so he was
on the mats. He put a lot of beatings on
me back in the day, so he was awesome. He
was great, And Bob la Tessa was another what a
great mind for wrestling. I was just surrounded by two
guys that were young enough to get on the mats
every day. And I loved wrestling. I could wrestle all day.
I was that guy that could wrestle five, six days
a week because I love being on the mats.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Why was Pitt the right choice?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
That's funny. I had to give credit to my college roommate,
al ut Or. He was actually we both did a
postgraduate at Blair. That was pretty big back then. At
Blair now it's really not. I probably would have made
the team today with the teams they have now, but
I did a post graduator because I was, like I said,
I was one twenty six pounder in high school. You know,
I was physically immature. I was still growing. I knew
it was Academically, I never took serious, you know. I
(06:52):
just kind of went to school and did my thing.
I really wanted to wrestle. And then going to Blair,
I knew I needed something, a challenge academically I knew,
and a challenge, you know, just another year of physically grow.
So Blair made a lot of sense. And then I
was actually gonna walk on at Penn State. I mean
that was that's where I wanted to go since I
was they recruited my brother. I always thought that's where
I was going to go. And at the last minute
(07:14):
my college roommate end up being in My college roomate said,
m don't just take a visit to pitt just go
out there. What's the worst gonna happen? It is like,
all right, took a day. Was in April. That's when
we back then we could take trips in April. People
didn't decide and I drove out there. I spent a
day with Randy Stoudemier and I just thought just something click.
We hit it off. He was just an amazing human being.
I met some of the guys in the team. If
(07:34):
you've been out to Western Pennsylvania people or some of
the friendliest people in the country there. So it was
an instant cliq for me. I loved it. The best
decision ever made.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
In the background. You have a bookshelf, give me two
or three of your favorite books.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, boybly my favorite ones the Bible. So that's that's
an easy one for me. That's something that I probably
read the most. But I like a lot of mental stuff, training,
mental training. I don't know. It's actually I'm going to
give a plug for Ben Ben Ashman just came out
with the book. It's really good. I got I'm a
Jonad Blink. I just read it like two months ago
when it came out. Amazing book. If I can homember
(08:11):
the name while we were talking, I'll I'll let you know.
But I can't remember the name of it right now,
and we wrote it with Spartan. Uh something I'll remember,
we'll come to me.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Was it was that the all in journal.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
No, he has the all in joking, I'm a I'm
a huge Ben Ashman fan. Just to let you know.
Back when as that Maryland used to bring him in
for a camps, I just I saw the coach Dill Knight,
saw the way he was wrestling, and then after watching
his second year, we both realized there's a plan to
what he's doing. It's not just he's just not figuring
it out as he goes. Then we brought him in
for some camps and sure enough he had a plan.
(08:44):
Actually took my son out to his camp this summer.
I spent three days with him. I just wanted to
watch him run the room. He's got a great approach.
I think he's about keeping kids in the sport. You
stay here long enough, you're gonna get really good. So
I really like his mindset. So I just gave him
a plug hopefully. Uh you know, people go out there
and you know, if you have a chance to visit
it and spend time with him, he's pretty amazing. So
(09:06):
it's I'm really glad I made the trip. I'm trying
to remember that name of that book, and I oh,
Extreme Balance, Extreme Balance, that's it. So that's one of
my favorite books. Recently. I think I read the Rise
of Superman. This summer I read. I'm a big reader,
so I read a lot of books. Our team read
one chop Wood Carrying Wood this summer, and we do
a team read every summer. This last summer was Grit,
(09:27):
this past summer was you know, chop Wood Carry Water.
So it's kind of like saying favorite book is kind
of like saying favorite movie, favorite song. It really depends
on your mood.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Almost right, yesterday I was preparing for Ohio State Rutgers
phone rings.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
What a match, right?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It was a great match. I typically wouldn't take the
call because I'm locked in, but it was Ben, and
I got a ton of respect for Ben. He's one
of the most interesting minds that I've ever ever been around,
for sure, So that's I got to read his book.
I'm not a huge reader. I probably need to read
a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It's really read, a good read, and it makes a
lot of sense. It might be a book we get
for a team this summer. I really enjoyed it. So
we have our sports psyche. She's reading it right now.
She read it, she liked it, so it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So you have a sports psychologist within the wrestling team.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We do? We do?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, what what have you learn from her?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's really really it's everybody's individual based and right you
find a lot of individual sports. There can be a
lot of you know, stress and anxiety people. Because everybody there,
you don't have to tell them to compete hard. They
want to win. It's just trying to keep him relaxed
and finding out what their real why is, trying to
get the bomb that And she's really what I'm learning
is when you can find your why and dial in
on at these guys will Russell harden or hustle hard
(10:40):
for each other, the Russell hart for their families or
wherever their why is. And that's what I've learned a
lot from her as far as just you know, she
just has a great report. The guys in the team,
probably half our team is seeing her right now on
a regular basis. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
When you think about the mental side of things. If
you could have a conversation with an eighteen year old
Pat Santora. From a mental standpoint, how does that conversation go.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think the easiest thing to do is is just believe.
I think it took me a while to believe in
what you're doing, because you see, you know, you're going
to these tournaments. Like I said, I didn't have a
lot of success. So I saw these names, and all
of a sudden, one day I started beating some of
those names. Was like, holy smokes, actually this is happening
for me. But I think I just had parents that believe.
They just always told me to believe in what you're doing,
(11:25):
and I started to believe, and then I found some
success and I started believing a little bit more. But
if I could just tell you any kid out there,
if you just really believe in what you're doing every
day and you believe in you step on that line.
You're gonna try to score as many points as you can.
I think that's the art of it, and sometimes you win.
You have to win one takedown match, but there could
be a lot of action in it. But I just
think that there is a you know, understanding what you're
(11:46):
doing and really believing in what you're doing, and you'll
have a ton of success. Did you red shirt first
year at PITT I didn't. I considered my blurry ear
reads your ear. So you know I went there. I
had I don't. It sounds terrible. I don't know what
my expectations were, right because I I think for the
first time I had any success, like actually winning something
was a national prep tournament, right, because I was still
young enough to wrestle there. But that was my first
(12:09):
tournament that I ever like because I never won States
and we went there once. So as I went there,
I was like, eh, if I get beat all, right, shirt,
And then the one guy in a team that had
beat out he pretty much beat this knot him every
day the first month, and then by the time where
wrest LOFs came around, I found a way to beat him,
and then I beat him a second time. And then
all of a sudden, Rainy's like, well a bunch of wrestle.
I'm like okay, and we just we took off from there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And what place were you as no American as a
freshman sixth What did you learn from that season?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I learned it had a lot of work to do,
you know, I was I had a decent season as
a freshman year, and I started really I was, I
really was believing, and I got to that NCAA tournament
and I just got manhandled right by some of those guys.
I remember I wrestled Kevin Dresser Gibbons, like those guys
were just they're just I mean, I remember grabbing. I
was like, I couldn't move him right, and I was like,
I said, I probably could have gone thirty four my
(12:59):
freshman year. I was tall and skinny. We got a
really good thirty four pounder also at the time. But
I realized, like I better hit the weight room. So
that was the one thing I probably wasn't big on
early in my career. And I started just, you know,
trying to get a lot stronger, trying to get more physical.
But here's a funny story. I learned to Dresser dumped
the hard way, right, So I had no idea what
(13:19):
he did. I thought he was looking for a bottom
leg cradle and said he dressed redumped me. And I
found some video on it, and I went back and
I just started working on it. Started hitting in college
because of him. So I got to give him props too,
in an unfortunate way. So and then your sophomore season.
How did that unfold? I end up second in the country.
I lost the Pete Yazo of Lehigh Guy in the finals.
(13:40):
Funny story is, I was, like I said, it was
a twenty six pounder. He was one of my favorite
wrestler when I was you know, I was a player, right,
I was, like, I loved Lehigh wrestling. I used to
watch all the matches like that guy was like my hero.
And hear him two years later on wrestling in the
NCA finals, never thinking I'd be a forty two pounder, right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So wow, when you think back to that match, what
were what were some of the lessons I mean leaving
arena that what.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Were the thoughts? I mean, I was very disappointed. I
made a mistake. I really believe I was gonna win
that match. You know, I lost them the year before
by a point and I think it was three three
and I just kind of got lazy on bottom, did
lazy lazy stand up and it got cradled, right, these
things it's you know, and that was the match, right.
I just but you know, he's he was a great
competitor too. I knew that, but I just learned it.
(14:23):
You always gotta be ready. You got to keep yourself
in a good position all the time. So there's a
lesson learning. It was that, But I know I was
really excited to compete, and that taught me from high school.
I learned to always be excited to compete, whether I
was nervous or not. I was in shake hands. I
probably shot too much, but I was gonna go out there.
I was gonna try to score a bunch of points
every match.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
When you look at your college career, what's a match,
a win, or a loss that taught you the most?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
That's why because they all hurt, right, National Finals, that
one hurt, you know that really, you know, I think
I was back in back in the room on Monday.
You know, probably probably should have taken some time off,
but you just you just so you just want to
get back in there. And then I think I took
the second week off. I think that first week, I
think mentally I had I had to be in a
room that week. For me. You know, it wasn't like
I was wrestling hard. I was just working on things
(15:13):
win or loss. You know, obviously the losses you always
learned from, you know, done to college. I always guys
coaching locally in my high school Mike Cole. You know,
he definitely had my number. He beat me more times
than I'd beat him in college. He's a clearing guy.
I think he was two or three time All American.
Great guy. Learned a lot over those matches. I was.
I was a slow learner, obviously, I said, I used
to shoot too much as the guy you didn't want
(15:33):
to shoot on. But as far as a win, the
only thing one I could think about, probably, and I
have no idea to this day. I usually don't think
much in the match, but my sophomore year, in the
semi finals, I wrestled the guy that beat me in
the All Star Match, and I just remember there's moments
in the match. I just remember. So in the All
Star Match, I was losing four to one, and he
like he had like one ten riding time and the
(15:54):
NCAA is I was losing four to two and he
had like thirty seconds riding time. I was like, this
is a win for some and I just kept talking
myself through the match. I learned not to listen to
your body, but to talk to your body. Right, if
you listen to your body, might say i'm I'm tired,
I'm sore. Whatever it is. If you talk to yourself,
you start I was just talking to myself the whole time.
And again I really don't do this, but I was
like praying between periods, like, you know, thank God for
(16:16):
this opportunity to give me the strength just to keep wrestling.
And usually hear nothing in the match. And the one
thing I heard and never heard anything else except for
my coach is we are in a six six tie
edge of the mat. We just got in this little scramble.
Nothing happened. I thought there was like three seconds left.
All I heard, I don't know why, is there's ten
seconds left on Matt number six. And then I just
(16:37):
hit a pick and I took him down with like
under ten seconds to go. And I have to thank
the announcer for that that I heard that. I don't
know why I heard that, but I heard it. I
thought we're going over time, and I just like, oh,
I got time. You know, so.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Incredible stories. What is the most impactful conversation you and
coach scottlom I have ever had?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Gosh, we had a lot of them. I don't you know.
I just learned so much from him. I think a
lot of people don't know this. I think my close
friends do. But I used to stay in the summertime
for about six weeks after school was out and just train,
because back then you didn't really stay all summer, came home.
I usually trained, you know, in Bethlehem, right like Scott
Turner was a national champ. Friends he stayed, he used
to train with him, worked at Lehigh camps, trained with
(17:17):
guys at Lehigh all the time. But one of the
things we used to do is I'd run into him
sometimes in the springtime or early summer. It could be
nine o'clock at night and he'd be on the way
home and I'd say, hey, you want to work out,
And sure enough, he would drop everything and go work out.
He was just that guy. He just was very giving.
He was still you know, getting on the match then.
(17:37):
But he always just told me to believe, right. He
just he really believed in me. He probably believed in
times I did. And there's times I was in tears
after practice, thinking like maybe I shouldn't be starting this year,
you know. He was like, Nope, Nope, you're fine. You're
gonna be fine this year. You're gonna be an All
American this year and the next ye You're gonna be
a national champ. He was just always positive reinforcement. I
couldn't point to one conversation. I just knew when I
was around him, I was better describe winning a national title.
(18:04):
Uh it was I don't know a lot of people related.
For me, it was just like, Wow, I just set
a goal, I reached it. I was I was happy
I won, but I do remember I kind of stopped
wrestling the third period because the year before I got
cradled and pinned right and I knew the guy was
wrestling Sean o' dave from Edwin was very explosive. You
can put you on the back in a second. I
was like, I was being more safe, and I really
(18:26):
regretted that, and I knew I was. I should have
been more happy, but I was more like I should
have rusted that third perier a little bit harder. That
was my thought. But when I walked away from it
a few weeks later, I was like, Okay, I got
appreciate what I did because in the moment, you're kind
of harder on yourself. And then I just knew that, hey,
that that that box has checked. Let's go chase another one.
(18:47):
So I hate the term defending national change. I think
defending anything as a passive term. So I even when
we were we won a couple of conference titles in
row and then meeting people like, oh, you can defend,
it's like we're not defending anything. That's too passive. You know,
it's a new year, there's a there's a new title
to chase, and you always got to be on a chase.
I like some of the guys we having our team
right now are in right, sure, but they're they're running around.
(19:08):
So you sign up for tournaments. You're trying to chase
the guys, and that's the kind of mentality we won.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You mentioned some of the details you and I were
talking before, because I've been told it was Bethlem, Pennsylvania.
You said, no, it's Bethlehem. It's it's three syllables. And
you bring up another really good point. I had this
conversation this weekend with somebody in wrestling. You do not defend.
You are the returning champion or the reigning champion. But
you're right, you're not defending anything like you will always
(19:35):
be a national champion from you know, whatever year you
won in the white class, regardless of who you are,
that can't be taken away. But then you got to
get the next thing. And talking to guys that have
won one, uh, several conversations I've had, they talk about
how different it is coming back and repeating what was
that experience like for you?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't really have that. If anything,
I've probably overtrained a little bit, and Randy backed me
off because I really wanted to win again. I think
early in the year I lost to Mike Cole. We
talked about great wrestler from Clarion, and you know, it
was one of those I was really stubborn and I
was like, I just got to go harder and shoot harder.
And he was known for the Cole role. I would shoot,
(20:13):
he'd roll me up, and he beat me two or
three times. And then finally Randy convinced me, we're going
to wrestle different the next time, but we never had it.
Next time. We were supposed to wrestle dul Meat that
got canceled. We didn't wrestle the finals of our conference,
and then we didn't wrestle NCAA's You know, it would
have been fun to wrest him again a guy from
the same conference, because he's like I said, he's a
great wrestler. He could easily been in the finals. He
(20:34):
was that type of good. But yeah, like you said,
we're not defending anything. The chase is always way more fun,
and you know, fortunate for me. I think in my
athletic career, I was always chasing, right. I didn't have
a ton of titles like growing up and win in everything,
far doing all those things. So I do like to chase.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
When you look back at your career at Pitt, I
know you were inducted to the Pitt Hall of Fame.
Pretty cool accolades when you when you were a fleckback
all these years. You know, what are you most proud of?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think, and I eased. That's easy just going back
to the Hall of Fame. It was my teammates. They
were awesome, Like I couldn't have done any of it
without them. My college roommate al Otter, you know, he
was another one that pushed me every day if I
if I had a bad practice, he always stayed with
me afterwards and we always did an extra go. He
was he was just he just stayed out of the
house last weekend it's kind of funny we're talking about it,
(21:25):
but he was. I just had really good teammates. They're
really encouraging. If I needed a partner, they pushed me,
they'd stay after they do whatever. They were just they
were awesome teammates. So when I go back, I don't
think about too many of my matches. I think about
my experiences. And we had a team that we were
a bunch of We always joke we're kind of a
bunch of no names, you know, hard those guys that
we just were going to wrestle really hard to wrestle
(21:46):
for each other because I got more. I probably got
more upset when we lost a duel meet than whether
I lost or you know, I got something I lost.
But I really wanted our team to win because we
were right on the cusps. We're always like top fifteen, right,
you know, knocking on the door that top ten.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So where do you keep the wall charts and the
championship trophies? Where are those at?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
There's somewhere in my basement in a box, you know, Yeah,
I haven't looked at those in years.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Who's the guy that you've coached that reminds you the
most of yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Hmmm, actually a guy. One of the guys probably wrestles
like I do. I like I did. I guess we
have a couple of guys. You know. One guy's probably
you know currently Max Bergnola, and I just love the
way he wrestles, why he approaches practice every day. He's
he's in very active wrestler. He's having a great I
think he's I don't know if he's lost yet this
(22:37):
year as a red shirt, but he's having a great year.
But he's a guy that's just been he's just been developing, developing.
Every year. He's getting better and better, and I'm really
excited for him next year. But that's what thinking about currently.
I don't all the years I've coached, I don't know.
I'm hoping they're way better technically than I was. You know,
I had I had a win by attacking a lot
(22:57):
because I didn't really have counter offense in the day,
because it really wasn't as important. It's I love people
from the eighties talking about how tough it was, and
it probably was, but wrestling is so good right now.
It's way different, so you have to approach it different.
Your techniques different, your hand fight different. You're you know,
the number number one takedown to go behind right now, right,
That wasn't the case when I was wrestling. So I
(23:18):
don't know if that answered your question, but yeah, I
couldn't pick one wrestler, and I've had to pick one
that's currently on our team at say Max Bergnola, and
just a lot of the way he's growing, in the
way he wrestles every day, approaches it.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
We talked about dual meets before before we started recording.
I believe what are you know, what are your thoughts
on dual meets and a doo Meet championship? You know,
take us inside your brain on those feelings.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I love it all. I don't care what it is.
You know, we we will do anything. You know, the
only thing you were you know, there's so many I mean,
I mean, there's so many injuries in wrestl anymore because
everybody's so physical. You add another championship, that's someone you're
someone's gonna be sitting out of the dual Meet Championship
or the NCAA individual tournament. That's just the way it works.
When you have that high level competition week in week out. Right,
(24:03):
you see at the conference terms and NCAA's guys getting
dinged up. But other than that, I don't care what
we do. We're gonna show up and wrestle. So that's
why I like to look at it. So I love
dual meets. I think the dual meets the home and
we get rich Steck Cornell yesterday. Just what a great environment.
That's it's a really fun rival because our kids like
their kids for the most part. Their kids like our
kids because they're great kids. But they want to beat
(24:24):
the crap out of each other on the mat. Right, So,
but that's the way I think a rivalry should be. Right, So,
what's something within the sport? Sport coach Santaro that it
kind of fires you up a little bit, Something within
the sport that'll maybe take it as zero to sixty
in a couple of seconds. I love it when a
guy lays it on the line, when I see someone
out there trying to score, you know, twenty twenty twenty
(24:46):
twenty two points a match. That gets me fired up,
because I think that's what wrestling should be about. It
should be about moving forward, attacking, getting on attacks. An
attack doesn't mean shooting attack, being underhooking could be pulling
the guy underneath you. It could be a reattack. All
those things are really important. I just a person that
goes out there and is just you can see it too.
When get someone just so free and just lets it fly,
(25:06):
that is it. The fans want to see it, right,
and so I think that that's what gets me fired up.
Like that's why I'm watching wrestling all the time. Every
every day. One of the first things I do, I
watched video whatever happened that weekend, you know, And I
was watching the matches yesterday obviously from the weekend. I
watched our matches again, and I watched them the Big
ten matches. But I think it's important. We got to
stay current. We gotta see what's happening out there. It's
(25:28):
also important for like not so much we're going to
scout every single kid, but seeing what's happening out there,
what the trend is, and moving towards that. A lot
of times you see that the World Championships first, then
it starts making its way into college.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
When you and I lost my train of thought a
little bit on this one. I know what I was
gonna ask you. Being a fan of the sport, watching
guys score points. Who are a couple of guys over
the years that you didn't coach, but you watch him wrestling,
you're just in awe of how what they're able to
do well.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I think the easiest one right now is Messing Brink, right.
I mean that guy just he is just fun, right,
you know, Meyers Shapiro, Meyers Shapiro, Shapiro. He's just he's
so fun. He's so creative. And I think when you
get creative, when you think every day about getting better,
that's when those it looks like they're just they're levels
and levels above you, but the levels are so small.
(26:21):
It's right. It's just making that decision every day to
get better, and you make little adjustments every day, and
then all of a sudden, one technique turns into two,
into three and the four and it looks like you're flowing.
But a lot of work went into that. But it
doesn't happen overnight. It's rare that something can just pick
up a technique or flow overnight, but it can happen quickly.
It can happen in two or three weeks. If you
really work on two or three things specific, you can
(26:45):
you can open up your offense tremendously and a lot
of it's just opened up your mind a little bit
when you walk out there.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You've been at different places again, been doing this for decades.
Who are some of the best wrestling minds you've spent
some time with.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Well, we touch talked about one of them, right, Ben Ashkron.
You know it's so funny. Some coaches share minds, some don't.
I think a really good wrestling mind. I really enjoy
talking lou Roselli. Keith Gavin's got a great wrestling mind.
I don't want to want to cut shorty. I call
a lot of Tim Flynn really like him, you know,
I got to I don't know them as well, but
(27:22):
I do enjoy talking with them. With the Penn State staff,
I think they've you know, I think their approach to
wrestling is pretty positive. I think it's pretty good. But
there's so many good minds. Jeff Buxton, he's got one
of the greatest minds I've I've been around in wrestling, right,
He's tremendous. He just he breaks things downs, he sees things.
He's a great way of explaining it. He asked the
(27:43):
right questions, so he may be one of the best minds.
I've been around, but he's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
What's the biggest difference between you now compared to twenty
years ago?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Uh? Just I think I think the sports evolved so much, right,
you know before everything you know, back in the day
day everything was and everybody talks about wrestling and embrace
the grind. I don't think it has to be a
grind it. I think I think it's going to be
a consistent daily effort, right, high effort. I never looked
at wrestling as a grind. I just I don't. I
don't understand that. And people I think it's it's something
(28:15):
you get to do every day, right, you get to
go to the playground and get better. But I think
the training's changed. I don't think there's as much live
wrestling as it used to be. I mean we used
to do gosh, we did hour goes, thirty minute goes.
That's not the case. I mean, we'll be lucky, you know,
you might do you know some ten minute goes, hate
minute goes. You know, it breaks down. It's a lot shorter.
There's no not a ton of long, long gos anymore.
(28:37):
Because we want to be you really, you're not training
for a marathon, right You're you're training for a seven
minute match. You got to mimic that as much as
you can.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What's the rule? If I gave you the magic one,
you could change one rule? Is there anything that that
you would change in folks? Now wrestling?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Hmmm? Wrestle till you pin somebody you know, or till
someone quits Now. I'm a big pin advocate, you know.
I just I always bleeding the pins. I like pinning
in college. I think my last two years in college,
we went to a six point tech ball, you know,
for dual meets, and the pins dropped and my and
(29:13):
I was guilty of it because it's easier to tech
falsehom than pin somebody. But I do think there's an
The ultimate art of wrestling is to pin somebody. I
bet I love pins. If there's a rule change, I
don't know. I think we've made some pretty good rule changes.
I do like there's a lot of I've talked with
a lot of people. People don't want to people don't
want to have a long time on the mat. If
you can't turn a guy that want to cut them.
(29:34):
But there's an art being a top guy. There's an
art to turning somebody, and you may need that first
forty five seconds to soften a guy up, because these
guys are thir elite, right, they're really good, they're good positioned,
they're strong. It takes a while just to turn somebody.
You don't just turn them unless you catch them in
something that was an arm bar tilt guy sotime as
you wear them down a little bit. So I do
think if we just if you're going to make it
(29:54):
on your feet, then just go freestyle. But I do
think getting off the bottom is an art. You better
get off the bottom. That's a third of the wrestling.
You can't ignore it. Top is really important. If you
get ignored, it's start of the sport. Shame on you, right,
and you can get you if you have to be
good in two of them. You've ever be good on
your feet and go on bottom, But why not be
good on top because there's three parts to wrestle and
ignore any of them. I think it's it's a it's
(30:15):
a poor choice.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
As an athlete and as a coach. And I know
you got so much experience, so it's you know some
of these are like you probably got a million of them,
But is there A corner story, A corner story that
stands out as an athlete and as a coach.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
A corner story.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, just something in the corner within the match, something
that he that you said, something maybe somebody said to you.
Maybe it was a heated exchange between you know, between coaches.
I mean, just anything memorable from the corner.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I can think. Guess I can think of two of them.
One we had a kid. We're getting ready for the
conference finals. He was wrestling the guy that was number
one seed and you get to see he was he's
just just getting really tight. We're waiting because they're doing
their awards for the other way classes and they go, hey,
what are you doing tonight? He just looked at me.
I was like, got any big plans? And they also
he just started laughing. He was like, yeah, I think
about going out and wrestling. And then he went out
and won, so it was it was pretty cool. You know,
(31:09):
one of my guests as a head coach, one of
my first experiences at Maryland, and we're wrestling this uh,
we're wrestling I think it was Duke or The kid
was pretty good though for their team on the better wrestlers,
and our guy was starting to come back on all
of a sudden, there was blood time. The kid at blood
time and it was literally there was maybe twelve seconds
left and he just came over. So this is the
(31:30):
first time you actually said something and it happened, right.
I was like, hey, he's got a stall call. You
can to take two half shots, get to stall call,
take him down, put in time overtime and take him down.
It was like that fast, and he's like, okay, he
went out hit two half shots that hit him, have stalling.
He got to take down on the buzzer, then he
got to take down in overtime. I was like, holy smokes,
that just worked. So that was that was like the
there's so many corner things I can't pick one with up.
(31:51):
That was the first one and the other one was
my first my first year at Lehigh when we had
that conversation. So it was like the two last ones
I remember that were like, Okay, that just happened. That
just works.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So yeah, remember who those guys were.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yep, Andrew Schlawfer from Maryland and Setchazuli from Lehigh.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
On the freestyle side of things, what are some of
the battles I mean, you were right in the thicket,
you know, one of the top guys in the country.
What are some of the battles that that you remember
On the freestyle side.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
That was a lot of fun. Only regret ever having freestyle.
I was a full time coach, so I didn't. I
probably it wasn't like today, Like I pretty much wrestled
college style all year and then once March and in
March had I pretty much shifted the freestyle. I don't
recommend that for anybody, but I was always playing catch up,
I felt. But I really enjoyed it because I got
(32:39):
to wrestle some amazing people. I wrestled, Gosh, Nate Carr.
I got to wrestle Lincoln mont Bravey, Townsend Saunders, who
I wrestled the national finals one year, then he beat
me to make the Olympic team a few years later. Gosh,
it was like the Steiner. I mean, Terry Steiner was
another one. Just national champ after national champ. Matt Demer
is a two time champ from Wisconsin. Just some really
(33:00):
good solid people, Like every from the quarterfinals on, you're
rustling a national champ or three or four time All American.
That's what I really loved about the folk, the freestyle.
When I wrestled, is like every match meant something, So
I really enjoyed that time. Just every match was a
just a battle, and I really enjoyed those battles. I
think the wrestled Chris Bono a bunch of times, Like
there was just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
What match was the most painful in your entire career.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Not losing ninety six being an alternate. Was match three
and overtime? That was That was that one? That was one.
I mean usually I bounced back pretty well after a loss,
but that one, with that one hit me pretty hard.
That was one. You know, it's for Olympic team, right,
and it was you know, one of those matches and
you know, I he won match one on one match
(33:46):
to match three went overtime and I kind of hesitated
an attack and I left myself open and a lot
I had a lot of regret just not going for
it more. But you know, the better man won that
day and he went and got a silver medal in
the finals and Olympics, right, So he did great, He
did great things after that, great wrestler, great person too,
So you know, I was really fortunate. I was blessed
(34:07):
to wrestle a lot of really good people, but not
just good rustlers, but off to matt, I think everybody
got along. We really didn't have that animosity towards each other.
It was pretty it was pretty respectful, and maybe that
I don't know if it's like that today, I think
it is. It seems that way. I'm not obviously wrestling anymore,
but it seems like you guys get along pretty well
off the matt, and I think that's one thing that
our sport does pretty well, because it's very humbling sport. Right.
(34:28):
You can go to practice one day and you're king,
and two days later the same guy's kicking a snot
at you. So it's it's very You're always gonna be humbled.
You're you're day away from having your worst day and
your day away from having your best day, right, So
you have to embrace it and it is what it
is and you move on, you know. I'm you know,
when things, bad things happen in life, and they're they're
gonna happen, it's not our job to ask why, but
(34:50):
it's how we respond to it. And that's just like
wrestling every days. Like I don't I don't know why
this is happening, but just now I'm going to respond
to it, and your your attitude is going to overcome anything,
and it's it's important. Obviously there's gonna be technical skills set,
but your attitude is really important.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Ultimately, after that match in ninety six, what what kind
of got you, you know, over the hump and back
on the right track to get them?
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I think, well, the following year I didn't compete, but
I think we really put things in perspective. We had
kind of a tragy in her family and my brother
and my brother's wife passed away suddenly. So I didn't
compete that year, to stay at home and helped him
with the kids all summer and pretty much took the
you off of compete, or the six months or so
off competing. But that was, you know, that was the
right thing to do. Is no zero regrets. And then
(35:35):
I decided in ninety eight, it's like, you know, I'm
getting older now, I'm in my thirties, let me let
me try and make a run for two thousand and
again it was it was a great run. If I
don't think it's about to do one thing different. At
that point, maybe I would have done gone summer, made
her training center just to train freestyle full time. But
I love coaching. I love being with the guys. So
that was a hard decision to make, right. But I
(35:56):
don't regret it. But if I had one wrestling regret,
I probably need to move out and do freestyle full time.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Put to go arn It podcast. When you look at
your life, maybe not wrestling, just your life, you know,
what's what's the time in your life where you had
to kind of go or it and learn something about yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I think that's every day. I mean, there's not a
you know, I shouldn't say day go buys. But I'm
always questioning is this the best decision I'm making right now? Right?
It's is it wise right? That's always a great question,
you know, And that can be as simple as if
you're making weight right, like is this food can help
me for my next workout? My is my sleep more important?
(36:35):
And staying up tonight? You know, those are small things,
but even now, like I want to be the best
husband again, I want to be the best father I can.
You know, I have a daughter, it's a freshman in college.
I have a son that's a freshman in high school, right,
I want to be there for them. I want to
support them. And wrestling it is a really really important
part of our lives. But it's not our lives, right,
It's just part of what we do. It's not who
we are. And I think when you're a young athlete,
(36:57):
I think one that when the losses are so devastating
you and I've been I was guilty of this. I
think when I was younger, you attach it to who
you are and and and that's why it can hold
people back sometimes. And I think when I when I
realized that, I can be extremely disappointed after this loss,
but I also have to know I'm gonna learn from
this and grow from this and get better. When I
started doing that, I started opening up in matches. That
(37:19):
for me, it took me probably when I was that Blair.
It was a mindset I made my junior in high
school to just really open up and if I'm gonna lose,
I'm I lose on my terms, right, I'm not gonna
I hate coming off the mat losing one nothing or
something or two to one. That's just like, that's just devastating.
Doesn't mean it never happened, but it was one of
the things that I'm gonna even I'm gonna make an
every effort I can to lay it on the line,
and so be it, so be it. But no regrets.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Who is your favorite athlete growing up? Any sport?
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I really liked Muhammad Ali I was really young then,
but then I wrote to a big boxing fan. And
then Larry Holmes is right from East n PA, right
next door. Big fan of Larry Holmes. That's a big
like I said, pretty much in all through college we
watched boxing every every weekend. That was our thing. We've
probably been MMA today, but back then it was boxing.
I love Mike Tyson, Yeah, that was a probably that
(38:09):
was maybe because it was a one on one sport.
You know. I love all the Phillies of course, and
I had football stars, but boxing the one that related
to me, and probably a lot of the Lee High wrestlers,
you know, just because grown up. There were my heroes
growing up. But it's hard to pick one. Some said,
who's your favorite book, and like, I don't know, favorite food?
I don't know, right, It's it's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
You got a favorite Philly all time?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Mike Schmidt. He was pretty good and I like Steve
Carlton a lot. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
The reason I ask you that is, uh, I had
a Walter Payton poster in my room.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah and uh and I.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Wasn't even a big Bear fan, but I just remember
I just had that poster Walter Payton. So my question
to you is, you know who's on your poster, per se, Like,
what's the sweetest movie you ever hit? If there was
a Pat santor old poster? What what move are you
hitting on?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Somebody?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Like you got you got like a move that you
hit that you'll never forget.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Probably a backbridge. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know.
I just I just I had like a template, right,
I like I had my ties. I was gonna go.
I'm a big believer in right, left, over top or
around over top, And a round could be the same
like every setup, whether it's an inside tie, it's there's
a single, there's a high crotch, there's a pick to
(39:27):
both sides, there's a front headlocked right. If you're a
Russian tie, you can near side single far pick. So
I wouldn't say it, per se, what shot I always
came out to match, and I think I was some
people they said I had a really good double, but
I hit mostly singles right. I was more a single
high crotch, and then when the double was there, i'd
hit it. But I I didn't go out there looking
for any particular move and went out there with a
(39:48):
tie and I let my opponent kind of tell me
what was going to be there. It was gonna be right,
left or over top. So I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Sure tell me something that very few people know about you.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm a little bit of an introvert,
for sure. I remember my very first phone phone call
when I was recruiting as as my first assistant job.
It was a painful. I felt bad for I couldn't
remember what I called it. Trt to be the most
painful call for him because I was like as shy
as could be. Yeah, I don't know, that's a that's
(40:23):
a great question. But I love the fly fish. So
I can get lost for hours on the local creek
or a river, throw some headphones in there, get out
there and just stand there. For I've been known to
be out there for six seven hours straight. Sometimes I
just don't get a lot of time to do that. Anymore.
But during COVID I did that a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
What's what's your favorite kind of music?
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I like? Probably I like classic rock, so that's probably
what I go to my go to. You know, if you.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Made the NCAA finals and got to pick your own music,
what do you what are you running down the carpet on?
Speaker 3 (41:05):
It's a country song called open the Gate, so that
just like the words on it, you know, it's it's
kind of cool song. But I don't know that's a
great one. I'd have to think about that probably a longer.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
But you got a favorite concert that stands out?
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Jimmy Buffett, Okay, can go wrong with him?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Can't go wrong with They.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Were they were the best concerts every from age seventy
to seventy. There's people there, That's what I love about.
It just brought generations together. I went to about four
or five of those before he passed, but that that
was awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So a couple more for you. If you were making
a cross country trip, it's you You get to pick
three people get or alive that you've never met. You
just can't have never met him. Who are who are
you making that trip with?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Hmm uh? Probably Muhammad Ali, I know someone I never met,
Abraham Lincoln and probably Jesus Christ. So it was named three.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
You talked about your faith before. Has has that always
been you know something in your life? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I had a tug at a young age. I don't
know why. I mean, I do know why, but it
was one of those things. And then this is the
blessing I think when I when I decided, so I was,
I was doing a lot of searching, right, just a
lot of questions, and you know, I prayed every night.
It was just the typically go to church on weekends.
But I remember I just felt this deeper calling for
(42:39):
whatever reason, and I just when I went to Pitt.
It was kind of crazy. First week at school, I
mean first days of school I met. I just ran
into a guy getting a sub and he ended up
being a director of athletes and action that pit. You know,
we just started just started talking, right, and then turned
out my college roommate was a strong Christian and then
(43:00):
uh gosh, who was the other guy. Then I ran
into a girl started talking. She invited me this thing
on Cornerstone. It was right across the street from campus.
I started going to this so Tuesday, it turned out
within the first semesters, we had a Bible studying room.
On Tuesdays, I was going to a cornerstone across the
street from our towers where we lived, and on Thursday
were going Athletes in Action. So it just fell into
all these people I ran in in the first weeks
(43:21):
of school, kind of challenged me in my faith a
little bit, and it was a perfect fit. And then
I found out Randy. I didn't notice at the time
when I went there, but Randy's Daughteramer was a very
strong Christian and his wife and once she had once
I got to know him. You just I was so
obvious and I missed it right. But you know, I
couldn't have picked a better man. In fact, could be
half the coach he was. You know, I'd be happy
(43:42):
because he gave so much.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, I really appreciate this some some good stuff, Coach Santor.
I've always had just great respect for you in the program.
You run super high integrity guy, you do things the
right way there. I know you're impacting impacting lives in wrestling,
and and uh, I just I just really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
So thank you so much. I love your energy. I
love listening to you. Thanks for having me on, I
really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Looking forward to crossing paths
Speaker 3 (44:10):
All right, Shane, yep, you bet, Thank you, take care, goodbye,
Welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast, where we bring
you stories each week of people who have battled through adversity,
overcame the obstacles, and earned their dream. You were born
for greatness and our mission is to bring you the
stories that will inspire you to dream big and go
earn it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And welcome to the Go Earn It Podcast. I'm your host.
Shane Sparks is always super excited for the guests that
we have on this podcast, and we welcome in the
longtime head coach for the Lehigh Mountainhawks, coach Pat Santoro
was a four time All American at Pitts, won a
couple of national titles for the Panthers. Coach Santoro happy
(00:47):
to have you here.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
How are you, I'm doing great, Thanks for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I want to start with Darien Cruz because we had
Darien on it a few episodes back, and he talked
about different things, things that you would say to him
to get his mind right, get him loose, get him relaxed.
I thought it was fascinating. So my first question out
of the gate to you is, and you've been coaching
a long long time, what are a few conversations, and
(01:13):
I want you to be you know, be don't be
humble on this one. Okay, give me two or three
conversations that you have had with athletes that you believe
paid the highest dividends that really made a difference that
maybe at the time he didn't expect it to be
as impactful as it was.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean with a couple of guys.
I know, I'm a big believer. If you're trained in
the fire, you get thrown in the fire, nothing changes.
So just kind of keep yourself close to the fire
all the time. You're always prepared for that, right, so
when the match gets heated up, that's where you want
to be. And I guess the other one. I guess
I'm really big on courage because you know, confidence can
be shaken, right and hear it all the time. But
(01:54):
if you have courage to trust your training and trust
your abilities, you'll find your confidence went in the match,
so you can you can have a lot of doubt
going in, but doubts just those are normal natural things.
Those are necessary things because it builds up nerves, and
kind of nerves are a good thing. My dad always
told me a little bit of nerves are really good
and so I believe. You know, everybody has a little
bit of doubt. Doubt does not equal disbelief. So those
(02:15):
are pretty much the message we have to our team.
And if you can you understand what doubt is, then
you can wrestle really free and just let it fly.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
How did you get involved in wrestling?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I just wanted to be by my big brother. So
I had a brother that wrestled for Lehi was a
three time All American. He was actually probably the better wrestler.
He was a two time state champ. Like, I just
want to be abound my brother Rich. He was awesome, right,
so he he would go to practice. I'm like, I
want to be with him, and pretty much I went
to the wrest and this is probably a blessing because
I wasn't very good. But when I went to the restroom,
(02:47):
I was you know, wald wall matts. It was a
playground for me. So I always looked as a wrestlroom
as a playground and as you know, eventually start learning
in the playground. But I think as it's a fun time,
it's a game.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
How old were you when you started wrestling?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Probably, and you know, but I was, like I said,
I think I probably wrestled three matches that year, and
the next year I think I wrestled maybe ten. You know,
I wasn't one of those guys that was all year round.
I you know, I played baseball, I played soccer, I
ran cross country. I did a lot of different sports.
Wrestling was always something I loved, but I thought it
was gonna be a center fielder for the Phillies. Then
I got in news to the curb ball in ninth grade.
(03:20):
I said, all right, I'm gonna stick with wrestling a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So how do you stay in love with the sport?
You talked about growing up playing multiple sports. I'm a
big believer in that because I think the reality is
for ninety nine percent of us, you know, to think
you're gonna be this big d one superstar. I just
think maybe that energy is dis you know, not in
the right direction at times. How did you stay in
(03:42):
love with the sport and how do you coach staying
in love with the sport?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I don't know. I just for me, it was just
something I just felt. It was always something to learn.
I just remember having a lot of growing moments. A
lot of it was mental to Obviously there's some physical
technical stuff. I wasn't a very technical wrestler growing up,
and I was very physically immature. I think I weighed
ninety five pounds. Coming in my freshman year, I was
a JV guy, saw Mere. I was one oh five.
(04:07):
I was still a JV guy, but our starter couldn't
make the wait anymore. So I became a starter. And
then my junior year, I think that was probably I
always talked about there's always defining moments in your career.
That was probably. It was a mental defining moment for me.
I shared this with that camps and stuff, but I
was going. I had a really pretty good junior year,
(04:28):
went to regionals and I took fourth. Only three go
to States, and I just remember it was Liberty Gym
right here in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, sitting against Jim in tears,
and I remember looking at my knee pad and looking
at my sock and saying, it's not my lucky neepad,
it's not my lucky sock, it's me. I got to
make a change. And I always worked hard, but it
was just had to make a mental change on how
I approached the sport. And I didn't get results immediately.
(04:49):
It took a couple of years before it was sort
of becoming noticeable. I mean, my senior year, I was
fortunate I qualified for the States place third, but I
wasn't a big recruit or anything. It was just something
I was really so and to figure out in my mind,
and it would help me grow as an athlete. And
I think I take the same thing to coaching. There's
always something to learn.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Do you remember anything more specific on the on the
shift in mindset?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
No, that was it. It was it was me sitting
there and I had a teammate he actually was our
best wrestler, and I just remember sitting there him saying him,
I was like, you know, kind of being what you do,
you're kind of a baby. You're sitting there in tears,
and I just I can't believe my season's over. And
he just get a statement he goes or it's just beginning,
and that kind of stuck with me. You know, he
probably didn't remember saying it, but there's a shift. I mean,
it was just a shift. And I always, like I said,
(05:34):
I was worked hard, but I started really studying how
I was doing things right. And I had had some
really good high school coaches too, and I just started
paying attention. It just took a while for the development.
Then I did a postgraduate at Blair and I had
you know, Bob Latessa and Jeff Buster my coaches, and
then things just took off. I think I physically matured too,
and mentally I was maturing and things just took off
from there. And you know those everybody thinks with my blaurrier,
(05:58):
which that had a ton to do with It was
really the mindset I had that junior year in a
locker room by myself, right, So.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
What was it like? Wrestling for Coach Buxton.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Painful because he was young back then, so he was
on the mats. He put a lot of beatings on
me back in the day, so he was awesome. He
was great, And Bob la Tessa was another what a
great mind for wrestling. I was just surrounded by two
guys that were young enough to get on the mats
every day. And I loved wrestling. I could wrestle all day.
I was that guy that could wrestle five, six days
a week because I love being on the mats.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Why was Pitt the right choice?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
That's funny. I had to give credit to my college roommate,
al ut Or. He was actually we both did a
postgraduate at Blair. That was pretty big back then. At
Blair now it's really not. I probably would have made
the team today with the teams they have now, but
I did a post graduator because I was, like I said,
I was one twenty six pounder in high school. You know,
I was physically immature. I was still growing. I knew
it was Academically, I never took serious, you know. I
(06:52):
just kind of went to school and did my thing.
I really wanted to wrestle. And then going to Blair,
I knew I needed something, a challenge academically I knew,
and a challenge, you know, just another year of physically grow.
So Blair made a lot of sense. And then I
was actually gonna walk on at Penn State. I mean
that was that's where I wanted to go since I
was they recruited my brother. I always thought that's where
I was going to go. And at the last minute
(07:14):
my college roommate end up being in My college roomate said,
m don't just take a visit to pitt just go
out there. What's the worst gonna happen? It is like,
all right, took a day. Was in April. That's when
we back then we could take trips in April. People
didn't decide and I drove out there. I spent a
day with Randy Stoudemier and I just thought just something click.
We hit it off. He was just an amazing human being.
I met some of the guys in the team. If
(07:34):
you've been out to Western Pennsylvania people or some of
the friendliest people in the country there. So it was
an instant cliq for me. I loved it. The best
decision ever made.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
In the background. You have a bookshelf, give me two
or three of your favorite books.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, boybly my favorite ones the Bible. So that's that's
an easy one for me. That's something that I probably
read the most. But I like a lot of mental stuff, training,
mental training. I don't know. It's actually I'm going to
give a plug for Ben Ben Ashman just came out
with the book. It's really good. I got I'm a
Jonad Blink. I just read it like two months ago
when it came out. Amazing book. If I can homember
(08:11):
the name while we were talking, I'll I'll let you know.
But I can't remember the name of it right now,
and we wrote it with Spartan. Uh something I'll remember,
we'll come to me.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Was it was that the all in journal.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
No, he has the all in joking, I'm a I'm
a huge Ben Ashman fan. Just to let you know.
Back when as that Maryland used to bring him in
for a camps, I just I saw the coach Dill Knight,
saw the way he was wrestling, and then after watching
his second year, we both realized there's a plan to
what he's doing. It's not just he's just not figuring
it out as he goes. Then we brought him in
for some camps and sure enough he had a plan.
(08:44):
Actually took my son out to his camp this summer.
I spent three days with him. I just wanted to
watch him run the room. He's got a great approach.
I think he's about keeping kids in the sport. You
stay here long enough, you're gonna get really good. So
I really like his mindset. So I just gave him
a plug hopefully. Uh you know, people go out there
and you know, if you have a chance to visit
it and spend time with him, he's pretty amazing. So
(09:06):
it's I'm really glad I made the trip. I'm trying
to remember that name of that book, and I oh,
Extreme Balance, Extreme Balance, that's it. So that's one of
my favorite books. Recently. I think I read the Rise
of Superman. This summer I read. I'm a big reader,
so I read a lot of books. Our team read
one chop Wood Carrying Wood this summer, and we do
a team read every summer. This last summer was Grit,
(09:27):
this past summer was you know, chop Wood Carry Water.
So it's kind of like saying favorite book is kind
of like saying favorite movie, favorite song. It really depends
on your mood.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Almost right, yesterday I was preparing for Ohio State Rutgers
phone rings.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
What a match, right?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It was a great match. I typically wouldn't take the
call because I'm locked in, but it was Ben, and
I got a ton of respect for Ben. He's one
of the most interesting minds that I've ever ever been around,
for sure, So that's I got to read his book.
I'm not a huge reader. I probably need to read
a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It's really read, a good read, and it makes a
lot of sense. It might be a book we get
for a team this summer. I really enjoyed it. So
we have our sports psyche. She's reading it right now.
She read it, she liked it, so it's pretty good.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
So you have a sports psychologist within the wrestling team.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We do? We do?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, what what have you learn from her?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
It's really really it's everybody's individual based and right you
find a lot of individual sports. There can be a
lot of you know, stress and anxiety people. Because everybody there,
you don't have to tell them to compete hard. They
want to win. It's just trying to keep him relaxed
and finding out what their real why is, trying to
get the bomb that And she's really what I'm learning
is when you can find your why and dial in
on at these guys will Russell harden or hustle hard
(10:40):
for each other, the Russell hart for their families or
wherever their why is. And that's what I've learned a
lot from her as far as just you know, she
just has a great report. The guys in the team,
probably half our team is seeing her right now on
a regular basis. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
When you think about the mental side of things. If
you could have a conversation with an eighteen year old
Pat Santora. From a mental standpoint, how does that conversation go.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think the easiest thing to do is is just believe.
I think it took me a while to believe in
what you're doing, because you see, you know, you're going
to these tournaments. Like I said, I didn't have a
lot of success. So I saw these names, and all
of a sudden, one day I started beating some of
those names. Was like, holy smokes, actually this is happening
for me. But I think I just had parents that believe.
They just always told me to believe in what you're doing,
(11:25):
and I started to believe, and then I found some
success and I started believing a little bit more. But
if I could just tell you any kid out there,
if you just really believe in what you're doing every
day and you believe in you step on that line.
You're gonna try to score as many points as you can.
I think that's the art of it, and sometimes you win.
You have to win one takedown match, but there could
be a lot of action in it. But I just
think that there is a you know, understanding what you're
(11:46):
doing and really believing in what you're doing, and you'll
have a ton of success. Did you red shirt first
year at PITT I didn't. I considered my blurry ear
reads your ear. So you know I went there. I
had I don't. It sounds terrible. I don't know what
my expectations were, right because I I think for the
first time I had any success, like actually winning something
was a national prep tournament, right, because I was still
young enough to wrestle there. But that was my first
(12:09):
tournament that I ever like because I never won States
and we went there once. So as I went there,
I was like, eh, if I get beat all, right, shirt,
And then the one guy in a team that had
beat out he pretty much beat this knot him every
day the first month, and then by the time where
wrest LOFs came around, I found a way to beat him,
and then I beat him a second time. And then
all of a sudden, Rainy's like, well a bunch of wrestle.
I'm like okay, and we just we took off from there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And what place were you as no American as a
freshman sixth What did you learn from that season?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
I learned it had a lot of work to do,
you know, I was I had a decent season as
a freshman year, and I started really I was, I
really was believing, and I got to that NCAA tournament
and I just got manhandled right by some of those guys.
I remember I wrestled Kevin Dresser Gibbons, like those guys
were just they're just I mean, I remember grabbing. I
was like, I couldn't move him right, and I was like,
I said, I probably could have gone thirty four my
(12:59):
freshman year. I was tall and skinny. We got a
really good thirty four pounder also at the time. But
I realized, like I better hit the weight room. So
that was the one thing I probably wasn't big on
early in my career. And I started just, you know,
trying to get a lot stronger, trying to get more physical.
But here's a funny story. I learned to Dresser dumped
the hard way, right, So I had no idea what
(13:19):
he did. I thought he was looking for a bottom
leg cradle and said he dressed redumped me. And I
found some video on it, and I went back and
I just started working on it. Started hitting in college
because of him. So I got to give him props too,
in an unfortunate way. So and then your sophomore season.
How did that unfold? I end up second in the country.
I lost the Pete Yazo of Lehigh Guy in the finals.
(13:40):
Funny story is, I was, like I said, it was
a twenty six pounder. He was one of my favorite
wrestler when I was you know, I was a player, right,
I was, like, I loved Lehigh wrestling. I used to
watch all the matches like that guy was like my hero.
And hear him two years later on wrestling in the
NCA finals, never thinking I'd be a forty two pounder, right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So wow, when you think back to that match, what
were what were some of the lessons I mean leaving
arena that what.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Were the thoughts? I mean, I was very disappointed. I
made a mistake. I really believe I was gonna win
that match. You know, I lost them the year before
by a point and I think it was three three
and I just kind of got lazy on bottom, did
lazy lazy stand up and it got cradled, right, these
things it's you know, and that was the match, right.
I just but you know, he's he was a great
competitor too. I knew that, but I just learned it.
(14:23):
You always gotta be ready. You got to keep yourself
in a good position all the time. So there's a
lesson learning. It was that, But I know I was
really excited to compete, and that taught me from high school.
I learned to always be excited to compete, whether I
was nervous or not. I was in shake hands. I
probably shot too much, but I was gonna go out there.
I was gonna try to score a bunch of points
every match.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
When you look at your college career, what's a match,
a win, or a loss that taught you the most?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
That's why because they all hurt, right, National Finals, that
one hurt, you know that really, you know, I think
I was back in back in the room on Monday.
You know, probably probably should have taken some time off,
but you just you just so you just want to
get back in there. And then I think I took
the second week off. I think that first week, I
think mentally I had I had to be in a
room that week. For me. You know, it wasn't like
I was wrestling hard. I was just working on things
(15:13):
win or loss. You know, obviously the losses you always
learned from, you know, done to college. I always guys
coaching locally in my high school Mike Cole. You know,
he definitely had my number. He beat me more times
than I'd beat him in college. He's a clearing guy.
I think he was two or three time All American.
Great guy. Learned a lot over those matches. I was.
I was a slow learner, obviously, I said, I used
to shoot too much as the guy you didn't want
(15:33):
to shoot on. But as far as a win, the
only thing one I could think about, probably, and I
have no idea to this day. I usually don't think
much in the match, but my sophomore year, in the
semi finals, I wrestled the guy that beat me in
the All Star Match, and I just remember there's moments
in the match. I just remember. So in the All
Star Match, I was losing four to one, and he
like he had like one ten riding time and the
(15:54):
NCAA is I was losing four to two and he
had like thirty seconds riding time. I was like, this
is a win for some and I just kept talking
myself through the match. I learned not to listen to
your body, but to talk to your body. Right, if
you listen to your body, might say i'm I'm tired,
I'm sore. Whatever it is. If you talk to yourself,
you start I was just talking to myself the whole time.
And again I really don't do this, but I was
like praying between periods, like, you know, thank God for
(16:16):
this opportunity to give me the strength just to keep wrestling.
And usually hear nothing in the match. And the one
thing I heard and never heard anything else except for
my coach is we are in a six six tie
edge of the mat. We just got in this little scramble.
Nothing happened. I thought there was like three seconds left.
All I heard, I don't know why, is there's ten
seconds left on Matt number six. And then I just
(16:37):
hit a pick and I took him down with like
under ten seconds to go. And I have to thank
the announcer for that that I heard that. I don't
know why I heard that, but I heard it. I
thought we're going over time, and I just like, oh,
I got time. You know, so.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Incredible stories. What is the most impactful conversation you and
coach scottlom I have ever had?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Gosh, we had a lot of them. I don't you know.
I just learned so much from him. I think a
lot of people don't know this. I think my close
friends do. But I used to stay in the summertime
for about six weeks after school was out and just train,
because back then you didn't really stay all summer, came home.
I usually trained, you know, in Bethlehem, right like Scott
Turner was a national champ. Friends he stayed, he used
to train with him, worked at Lehigh camps, trained with
(17:17):
guys at Lehigh all the time. But one of the
things we used to do is I'd run into him
sometimes in the springtime or early summer. It could be
nine o'clock at night and he'd be on the way
home and I'd say, hey, you want to work out,
And sure enough, he would drop everything and go work out.
He was just that guy. He just was very giving.
He was still you know, getting on the match then.
(17:37):
But he always just told me to believe, right. He
just he really believed in me. He probably believed in
times I did. And there's times I was in tears
after practice, thinking like maybe I shouldn't be starting this year,
you know. He was like, Nope, Nope, you're fine. You're
gonna be fine this year. You're gonna be an All
American this year and the next ye You're gonna be
a national champ. He was just always positive reinforcement. I
couldn't point to one conversation. I just knew when I
was around him, I was better describe winning a national title.
(18:04):
Uh it was I don't know a lot of people related.
For me, it was just like, Wow, I just set
a goal, I reached it. I was I was happy
I won, but I do remember I kind of stopped
wrestling the third period because the year before I got
cradled and pinned right and I knew the guy was
wrestling Sean o' dave from Edwin was very explosive. You
can put you on the back in a second. I
was like, I was being more safe, and I really
(18:26):
regretted that, and I knew I was. I should have
been more happy, but I was more like I should
have rusted that third perier a little bit harder. That
was my thought. But when I walked away from it
a few weeks later, I was like, Okay, I got
appreciate what I did because in the moment, you're kind
of harder on yourself. And then I just knew that, hey,
that that that box has checked. Let's go chase another one.
(18:47):
So I hate the term defending national change. I think
defending anything as a passive term. So I even when
we were we won a couple of conference titles in
row and then meeting people like, oh, you can defend,
it's like we're not defending anything. That's too passive. You know,
it's a new year, there's a there's a new title
to chase, and you always got to be on a chase.
I like some of the guys we having our team
right now are in right, sure, but they're they're running around.
(19:08):
So you sign up for tournaments. You're trying to chase
the guys, and that's the kind of mentality we won.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
You mentioned some of the details you and I were
talking before, because I've been told it was Bethlem, Pennsylvania.
You said, no, it's Bethlehem. It's it's three syllables. And
you bring up another really good point. I had this
conversation this weekend with somebody in wrestling. You do not defend.
You are the returning champion or the reigning champion. But
you're right, you're not defending anything like you will always
(19:35):
be a national champion from you know, whatever year you
won in the white class, regardless of who you are,
that can't be taken away. But then you got to
get the next thing. And talking to guys that have
won one, uh, several conversations I've had, they talk about
how different it is coming back and repeating what was
that experience like for you?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't really have that. If anything,
I've probably overtrained a little bit, and Randy backed me
off because I really wanted to win again. I think
early in the year I lost to Mike Cole. We
talked about great wrestler from Clarion, and you know, it
was one of those I was really stubborn and I
was like, I just got to go harder and shoot harder.
And he was known for the Cole role. I would shoot,
(20:13):
he'd roll me up, and he beat me two or
three times. And then finally Randy convinced me, we're going
to wrestle different the next time, but we never had it.
Next time. We were supposed to wrestle dul Meat that
got canceled. We didn't wrestle the finals of our conference,
and then we didn't wrestle NCAA's You know, it would
have been fun to wrest him again a guy from
the same conference, because he's like I said, he's a
great wrestler. He could easily been in the finals. He
(20:34):
was that type of good. But yeah, like you said,
we're not defending anything. The chase is always way more fun,
and you know, fortunate for me. I think in my
athletic career, I was always chasing, right. I didn't have
a ton of titles like growing up and win in everything,
far doing all those things. So I do like to chase.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
When you look back at your career at Pitt, I
know you were inducted to the Pitt Hall of Fame.
Pretty cool accolades when you when you were a fleckback
all these years. You know, what are you most proud of?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I think, and I eased. That's easy just going back
to the Hall of Fame. It was my teammates. They
were awesome, Like I couldn't have done any of it
without them. My college roommate al Otter, you know, he
was another one that pushed me every day if I
if I had a bad practice, he always stayed with
me afterwards and we always did an extra go. He
was he was just he just stayed out of the
house last weekend it's kind of funny we're talking about it,
(21:25):
but he was. I just had really good teammates. They're
really encouraging. If I needed a partner, they pushed me,
they'd stay after they do whatever. They were just they
were awesome teammates. So when I go back, I don't
think about too many of my matches. I think about
my experiences. And we had a team that we were
a bunch of We always joke we're kind of a
bunch of no names, you know, hard those guys that
we just were going to wrestle really hard to wrestle
(21:46):
for each other because I got more. I probably got
more upset when we lost a duel meet than whether
I lost or you know, I got something I lost.
But I really wanted our team to win because we
were right on the cusps. We're always like top fifteen, right,
you know, knocking on the door that top ten.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So where do you keep the wall charts and the
championship trophies? Where are those at?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
There's somewhere in my basement in a box, you know, Yeah,
I haven't looked at those in years.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Who's the guy that you've coached that reminds you the
most of yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Hmmm, actually a guy. One of the guys probably wrestles
like I do. I like I did. I guess we
have a couple of guys. You know. One guy's probably
you know currently Max Bergnola, and I just love the
way he wrestles, why he approaches practice every day. He's
he's in very active wrestler. He's having a great I
think he's I don't know if he's lost yet this
(22:37):
year as a red shirt, but he's having a great year.
But he's a guy that's just been he's just been developing, developing.
Every year. He's getting better and better, and I'm really
excited for him next year. But that's what thinking about currently.
I don't all the years I've coached, I don't know.
I'm hoping they're way better technically than I was. You know,
I had I had a win by attacking a lot
(22:57):
because I didn't really have counter offense in the day,
because it really wasn't as important. It's I love people
from the eighties talking about how tough it was, and
it probably was, but wrestling is so good right now.
It's way different, so you have to approach it different.
Your techniques different, your hand fight different. You're you know,
the number number one takedown to go behind right now, right,
That wasn't the case when I was wrestling. So I
(23:18):
don't know if that answered your question, but yeah, I
couldn't pick one wrestler, and I've had to pick one
that's currently on our team at say Max Bergnola, and
just a lot of the way he's growing, in the
way he wrestles every day, approaches it.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
We talked about dual meets before before we started recording.
I believe what are you know, what are your thoughts
on dual meets and a doo Meet championship? You know,
take us inside your brain on those feelings.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I love it all. I don't care what it is.
You know, we we will do anything. You know, the
only thing you were you know, there's so many I mean,
I mean, there's so many injuries in wrestl anymore because
everybody's so physical. You add another championship, that's someone you're
someone's gonna be sitting out of the dual Meet Championship
or the NCAA individual tournament. That's just the way it works.
When you have that high level competition week in week out. Right,
(24:03):
you see at the conference terms and NCAA's guys getting
dinged up. But other than that, I don't care what
we do. We're gonna show up and wrestle. So that's
why I like to look at it. So I love
dual meets. I think the dual meets the home and
we get rich Steck Cornell yesterday. Just what a great environment.
That's it's a really fun rival because our kids like
their kids for the most part. Their kids like our
kids because they're great kids. But they want to beat
(24:24):
the crap out of each other on the mat. Right, So,
but that's the way I think a rivalry should be. Right, So,
what's something within the sport? Sport coach Santaro that it
kind of fires you up a little bit, Something within
the sport that'll maybe take it as zero to sixty
in a couple of seconds. I love it when a
guy lays it on the line, when I see someone
out there trying to score, you know, twenty twenty twenty
(24:46):
twenty two points a match. That gets me fired up,
because I think that's what wrestling should be about. It
should be about moving forward, attacking, getting on attacks. An
attack doesn't mean shooting attack, being underhooking could be pulling
the guy underneath you. It could be a reattack. All
those things are really important. I just a person that
goes out there and is just you can see it too.
When get someone just so free and just lets it fly,
(25:06):
that is it. The fans want to see it, right,
and so I think that that's what gets me fired up.
Like that's why I'm watching wrestling all the time. Every
every day. One of the first things I do, I
watched video whatever happened that weekend, you know, And I
was watching the matches yesterday obviously from the weekend. I
watched our matches again, and I watched them the Big
ten matches. But I think it's important. We got to
stay current. We gotta see what's happening out there. It's
(25:28):
also important for like not so much we're going to
scout every single kid, but seeing what's happening out there,
what the trend is, and moving towards that. A lot
of times you see that the World Championships first, then
it starts making its way into college.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
When you and I lost my train of thought a
little bit on this one. I know what I was
gonna ask you. Being a fan of the sport, watching
guys score points. Who are a couple of guys over
the years that you didn't coach, but you watch him wrestling,
you're just in awe of how what they're able to
do well.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
I think the easiest one right now is Messing Brink, right.
I mean that guy just he is just fun, right,
you know, Meyers Shapiro, Meyers Shapiro, Shapiro. He's just he's
so fun. He's so creative. And I think when you
get creative, when you think every day about getting better,
that's when those it looks like they're just they're levels
and levels above you, but the levels are so small.
(26:21):
It's right. It's just making that decision every day to
get better, and you make little adjustments every day, and
then all of a sudden, one technique turns into two,
into three and the four and it looks like you're flowing.
But a lot of work went into that. But it
doesn't happen overnight. It's rare that something can just pick
up a technique or flow overnight, but it can happen quickly.
It can happen in two or three weeks. If you
really work on two or three things specific, you can
(26:45):
you can open up your offense tremendously and a lot
of it's just opened up your mind a little bit
when you walk out there.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You've been at different places again, been doing this for decades.
Who are some of the best wrestling minds you've spent
some time with.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Well, we touch talked about one of them, right, Ben Ashkron.
You know it's so funny. Some coaches share minds, some don't.
I think a really good wrestling mind. I really enjoy
talking lou Roselli. Keith Gavin's got a great wrestling mind.
I don't want to want to cut shorty. I call
a lot of Tim Flynn really like him, you know,
I got to I don't know them as well, but
(27:22):
I do enjoy talking with them. With the Penn State staff,
I think they've you know, I think their approach to
wrestling is pretty positive. I think it's pretty good. But
there's so many good minds. Jeff Buxton, he's got one
of the greatest minds I've I've been around in wrestling, right,
He's tremendous. He just he breaks things downs, he sees things.
He's a great way of explaining it. He asked the
(27:43):
right questions, so he may be one of the best minds.
I've been around, but he's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
What's the biggest difference between you now compared to twenty
years ago?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Uh? Just I think I think the sports evolved so much, right,
you know before everything you know, back in the day
day everything was and everybody talks about wrestling and embrace
the grind. I don't think it has to be a
grind it. I think I think it's going to be
a consistent daily effort, right, high effort. I never looked
at wrestling as a grind. I just I don't. I
don't understand that. And people I think it's it's something
(28:15):
you get to do every day, right, you get to
go to the playground and get better. But I think
the training's changed. I don't think there's as much live
wrestling as it used to be. I mean we used
to do gosh, we did hour goes, thirty minute goes.
That's not the case. I mean, we'll be lucky, you know,
you might do you know some ten minute goes, hate
minute goes. You know, it breaks down. It's a lot shorter.
There's no not a ton of long, long gos anymore.
(28:37):
Because we want to be you really, you're not training
for a marathon, right You're you're training for a seven
minute match. You got to mimic that as much as
you can.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What's the rule? If I gave you the magic one,
you could change one rule? Is there anything that that
you would change in folks? Now wrestling?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Hmmm? Wrestle till you pin somebody you know, or till
someone quits Now. I'm a big pin advocate, you know.
I just I always bleeding the pins. I like pinning
in college. I think my last two years in college,
we went to a six point tech ball, you know,
for dual meets, and the pins dropped and my and
(29:13):
I was guilty of it because it's easier to tech
falsehom than pin somebody. But I do think there's an
The ultimate art of wrestling is to pin somebody. I
bet I love pins. If there's a rule change, I
don't know. I think we've made some pretty good rule changes.
I do like there's a lot of I've talked with
a lot of people. People don't want to people don't
want to have a long time on the mat. If
you can't turn a guy that want to cut them.
(29:34):
But there's an art being a top guy. There's an
art to turning somebody, and you may need that first
forty five seconds to soften a guy up, because these
guys are thir elite, right, they're really good, they're good positioned,
they're strong. It takes a while just to turn somebody.
You don't just turn them unless you catch them in
something that was an arm bar tilt guy sotime as
you wear them down a little bit. So I do
think if we just if you're going to make it
(29:54):
on your feet, then just go freestyle. But I do
think getting off the bottom is an art. You better
get off the bottom. That's a third of the wrestling.
You can't ignore it. Top is really important. If you
get ignored, it's start of the sport. Shame on you, right,
and you can get you if you have to be
good in two of them. You've ever be good on
your feet and go on bottom, But why not be
good on top because there's three parts to wrestle and
ignore any of them. I think it's it's a it's
(30:15):
a poor choice.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
As an athlete and as a coach. And I know
you got so much experience, so it's you know some
of these are like you probably got a million of them,
But is there A corner story, A corner story that
stands out as an athlete and as a coach.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
A corner story.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, just something in the corner within the match, something
that he that you said, something maybe somebody said to you.
Maybe it was a heated exchange between you know, between coaches.
I mean, just anything memorable from the corner.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I can think. Guess I can think of two of them.
One we had a kid. We're getting ready for the
conference finals. He was wrestling the guy that was number
one seed and you get to see he was he's
just just getting really tight. We're waiting because they're doing
their awards for the other way classes and they go, hey,
what are you doing tonight? He just looked at me.
I was like, got any big plans? And they also
he just started laughing. He was like, yeah, I think
about going out and wrestling. And then he went out
and won, so it was it was pretty cool. You know,
(31:09):
one of my guests as a head coach, one of
my first experiences at Maryland, and we're wrestling this uh,
we're wrestling I think it was Duke or The kid
was pretty good though for their team on the better wrestlers,
and our guy was starting to come back on all
of a sudden, there was blood time. The kid at blood
time and it was literally there was maybe twelve seconds
left and he just came over. So this is the
(31:30):
first time you actually said something and it happened, right.
I was like, hey, he's got a stall call. You
can to take two half shots, get to stall call,
take him down, put in time overtime and take him down.
It was like that fast, and he's like, okay, he
went out hit two half shots that hit him, have stalling.
He got to take down on the buzzer, then he
got to take down in overtime. I was like, holy smokes,
that just worked. So that was that was like the
there's so many corner things I can't pick one with up.
(31:51):
That was the first one and the other one was
my first my first year at Lehigh when we had
that conversation. So it was like the two last ones
I remember that were like, Okay, that just happened. That
just works.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So yeah, remember who those guys were.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yep, Andrew Schlawfer from Maryland and Setchazuli from Lehigh.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
On the freestyle side of things, what are some of
the battles I mean, you were right in the thicket,
you know, one of the top guys in the country.
What are some of the battles that that you remember
On the freestyle side.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
That was a lot of fun. Only regret ever having freestyle.
I was a full time coach, so I didn't. I
probably it wasn't like today, Like I pretty much wrestled
college style all year and then once March and in
March had I pretty much shifted the freestyle. I don't
recommend that for anybody, but I was always playing catch up,
I felt. But I really enjoyed it because I got
(32:39):
to wrestle some amazing people. I wrestled, Gosh, Nate Carr.
I got to wrestle Lincoln mont Bravey, Townsend Saunders, who
I wrestled the national finals one year, then he beat
me to make the Olympic team a few years later. Gosh,
it was like the Steiner. I mean, Terry Steiner was
another one. Just national champ after national champ. Matt Demer
is a two time champ from Wisconsin. Just some really
(33:00):
good solid people, Like every from the quarterfinals on, you're
rustling a national champ or three or four time All American.
That's what I really loved about the folk, the freestyle.
When I wrestled, is like every match meant something, So
I really enjoyed that time. Just every match was a
just a battle, and I really enjoyed those battles. I
think the wrestled Chris Bono a bunch of times, Like
there was just a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
What match was the most painful in your entire career.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Not losing ninety six being an alternate. Was match three
and overtime? That was That was that one? That was one.
I mean usually I bounced back pretty well after a loss,
but that one, with that one hit me pretty hard.
That was one. You know, it's for Olympic team, right,
and it was you know, one of those matches and
you know, I he won match one on one match
(33:46):
to match three went overtime and I kind of hesitated
an attack and I left myself open and a lot
I had a lot of regret just not going for
it more. But you know, the better man won that
day and he went and got a silver medal in
the finals and Olympics, right, So he did great, He
did great things after that, great wrestler, great person too,
So you know, I was really fortunate. I was blessed
(34:07):
to wrestle a lot of really good people, but not
just good rustlers, but off to matt, I think everybody
got along. We really didn't have that animosity towards each other.
It was pretty it was pretty respectful, and maybe that
I don't know if it's like that today, I think
it is. It seems that way. I'm not obviously wrestling anymore,
but it seems like you guys get along pretty well
off the matt, and I think that's one thing that
our sport does pretty well, because it's very humbling sport. Right.
(34:28):
You can go to practice one day and you're king,
and two days later the same guy's kicking a snot
at you. So it's it's very You're always gonna be humbled.
You're you're day away from having your worst day and
your day away from having your best day, right, So
you have to embrace it and it is what it
is and you move on, you know. I'm you know,
when things, bad things happen in life, and they're they're
gonna happen, it's not our job to ask why, but
(34:50):
it's how we respond to it. And that's just like
wrestling every days. Like I don't I don't know why
this is happening, but just now I'm going to respond
to it, and your your attitude is going to overcome anything,
and it's it's important. Obviously there's gonna be technical skills set,
but your attitude is really important.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Ultimately, after that match in ninety six, what what kind
of got you, you know, over the hump and back
on the right track to get them?
Speaker 3 (35:12):
I think, well, the following year I didn't compete, but
I think we really put things in perspective. We had
kind of a tragy in her family and my brother
and my brother's wife passed away suddenly. So I didn't
compete that year, to stay at home and helped him
with the kids all summer and pretty much took the
you off of compete, or the six months or so
off competing. But that was, you know, that was the
right thing to do. Is no zero regrets. And then
(35:35):
I decided in ninety eight, it's like, you know, I'm
getting older now, I'm in my thirties, let me let
me try and make a run for two thousand and
again it was it was a great run. If I
don't think it's about to do one thing different. At
that point, maybe I would have done gone summer, made
her training center just to train freestyle full time. But
I love coaching. I love being with the guys. So
that was a hard decision to make, right. But I
(35:56):
don't regret it. But if I had one wrestling regret,
I probably need to move out and do freestyle full time.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Put to go arn It podcast. When you look at
your life, maybe not wrestling, just your life, you know,
what's what's the time in your life where you had
to kind of go or it and learn something about yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I think that's every day. I mean, there's not a
you know, I shouldn't say day go buys. But I'm
always questioning is this the best decision I'm making right now? Right?
It's is it wise right? That's always a great question,
you know, And that can be as simple as if
you're making weight right, like is this food can help
me for my next workout? My is my sleep more important?
(36:35):
And staying up tonight? You know, those are small things,
but even now, like I want to be the best
husband again, I want to be the best father I can.
You know, I have a daughter, it's a freshman in college.
I have a son that's a freshman in high school, right,
I want to be there for them. I want to
support them. And wrestling it is a really really important
part of our lives. But it's not our lives, right,
It's just part of what we do. It's not who
we are. And I think when you're a young athlete,
(36:57):
I think one that when the losses are so devastating
you and I've been I was guilty of this. I
think when I was younger, you attach it to who
you are and and and that's why it can hold
people back sometimes. And I think when I when I
realized that, I can be extremely disappointed after this loss,
but I also have to know I'm gonna learn from
this and grow from this and get better. When I
started doing that, I started opening up in matches. That
(37:19):
for me, it took me probably when I was that Blair.
It was a mindset I made my junior in high
school to just really open up and if I'm gonna lose,
I'm I lose on my terms, right, I'm not gonna
I hate coming off the mat losing one nothing or
something or two to one. That's just like, that's just devastating.
Doesn't mean it never happened, but it was one of
the things that I'm gonna even I'm gonna make an
every effort I can to lay it on the line,
and so be it, so be it. But no regrets.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Who is your favorite athlete growing up? Any sport?
Speaker 3 (37:47):
I really liked Muhammad Ali I was really young then,
but then I wrote to a big boxing fan. And
then Larry Holmes is right from East n PA, right
next door. Big fan of Larry Holmes. That's a big
like I said, pretty much in all through college we
watched boxing every every weekend. That was our thing. We've
probably been MMA today, but back then it was boxing.
I love Mike Tyson, Yeah, that was a probably that
(38:09):
was maybe because it was a one on one sport.
You know. I love all the Phillies of course, and
I had football stars, but boxing the one that related
to me, and probably a lot of the Lee High wrestlers,
you know, just because grown up. There were my heroes
growing up. But it's hard to pick one. Some said,
who's your favorite book, and like, I don't know, favorite food?
I don't know, right, It's it's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
You got a favorite Philly all time?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Mike Schmidt. He was pretty good and I like Steve
Carlton a lot. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
The reason I ask you that is, uh, I had
a Walter Payton poster in my room.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah and uh and I.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Wasn't even a big Bear fan, but I just remember
I just had that poster Walter Payton. So my question
to you is, you know who's on your poster, per se, Like,
what's the sweetest movie you ever hit? If there was
a Pat santor old poster? What what move are you
hitting on?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Somebody?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Like you got you got like a move that you
hit that you'll never forget.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Probably a backbridge. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know.
I just I just I had like a template, right,
I like I had my ties. I was gonna go.
I'm a big believer in right, left, over top or
around over top, And a round could be the same
like every setup, whether it's an inside tie, it's there's
a single, there's a high crotch, there's a pick to
(39:27):
both sides, there's a front headlocked right. If you're a
Russian tie, you can near side single far pick. So
I wouldn't say it, per se, what shot I always
came out to match, and I think I was some
people they said I had a really good double, but
I hit mostly singles right. I was more a single
high crotch, and then when the double was there, i'd
hit it. But I I didn't go out there looking
for any particular move and went out there with a
(39:48):
tie and I let my opponent kind of tell me
what was going to be there. It was gonna be right,
left or over top. So I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Sure tell me something that very few people know about you.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm a little bit of an introvert,
for sure. I remember my very first phone phone call
when I was recruiting as as my first assistant job.
It was a painful. I felt bad for I couldn't
remember what I called it. Trt to be the most
painful call for him because I was like as shy
as could be. Yeah, I don't know, that's a that's
(40:23):
a great question. But I love the fly fish. So
I can get lost for hours on the local creek
or a river, throw some headphones in there, get out
there and just stand there. For I've been known to
be out there for six seven hours straight. Sometimes I
just don't get a lot of time to do that. Anymore.
But during COVID I did that a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
What's what's your favorite kind of music?
Speaker 3 (40:48):
I like? Probably I like classic rock, so that's probably
what I go to my go to. You know, if you.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Made the NCAA finals and got to pick your own music,
what do you what are you running down the carpet on?
Speaker 3 (41:05):
It's a country song called open the Gate, so that
just like the words on it, you know, it's it's
kind of cool song. But I don't know that's a
great one. I'd have to think about that probably a longer.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
But you got a favorite concert that stands out?
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Jimmy Buffett, Okay, can go wrong with him?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Can't go wrong with They.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Were they were the best concerts every from age seventy
to seventy. There's people there, That's what I love about.
It just brought generations together. I went to about four
or five of those before he passed, but that that
was awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So a couple more for you. If you were making
a cross country trip, it's you You get to pick
three people get or alive that you've never met. You
just can't have never met him. Who are who are
you making that trip with?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Hmm uh? Probably Muhammad Ali, I know someone I never met,
Abraham Lincoln and probably Jesus Christ. So it was named three.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
You talked about your faith before. Has has that always
been you know something in your life? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I had a tug at a young age. I don't
know why. I mean, I do know why, but it
was one of those things. And then this is the
blessing I think when I when I decided, so I was,
I was doing a lot of searching, right, just a
lot of questions, and you know, I prayed every night.
It was just the typically go to church on weekends.
But I remember I just felt this deeper calling for
(42:39):
whatever reason, and I just when I went to Pitt.
It was kind of crazy. First week at school, I
mean first days of school I met. I just ran
into a guy getting a sub and he ended up
being a director of athletes and action that pit. You know,
we just started just started talking, right, and then turned
out my college roommate was a strong Christian and then
(43:00):
uh gosh, who was the other guy. Then I ran
into a girl started talking. She invited me this thing
on Cornerstone. It was right across the street from campus.
I started going to this so Tuesday, it turned out
within the first semesters, we had a Bible studying room.
On Tuesdays, I was going to a cornerstone across the
street from our towers where we lived, and on Thursday
were going Athletes in Action. So it just fell into
all these people I ran in in the first weeks
(43:21):
of school, kind of challenged me in my faith a
little bit, and it was a perfect fit. And then
I found out Randy. I didn't notice at the time
when I went there, but Randy's Daughteramer was a very
strong Christian and his wife and once she had once
I got to know him. You just I was so
obvious and I missed it right. But you know, I
couldn't have picked a better man. In fact, could be
half the coach he was. You know, I'd be happy
(43:42):
because he gave so much.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, I really appreciate this some some good stuff, Coach Santor.
I've always had just great respect for you in the program.
You run super high integrity guy, you do things the
right way there. I know you're impacting impacting lives in wrestling,
and and uh, I just I just really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
So thank you so much. I love your energy. I
love listening to you. Thanks for having me on, I
really do appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Looking forward to crossing paths
Speaker 3 (44:10):
All right, Shane, yep, you bet, Thank you, take care, goodbye,
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