October 29, 2022 • 40 mins
Happy Saturday, Mark here. In part 1 of this 2 part episode, we get even more uncut. A conversation about good and evil yields a disagreement between the “fact oriented mind of a man”, (me), and the “expanded - detail oriented mind of a woman”, (Jade). I actually wanted to scrap this and start over but my wife reminded me of the importance of transparency here. We jump right into a conversation of how good intentions affect us and whether it will have the same effect on our children. As I listened again, I was reminded that I must always handle my wife with more gentleness than I’m giving. Especially while she’s 8.5 months pregnant. I had good intentions in the conversation, but are good intentions enough?
Questions
1. Who is in the judgment seat?
2. Should we teach our kids to choose?
3. How did it get “hot in herre”?
Questions
1. Who is in the judgment seat?
2. Should we teach our kids to choose?
3. How did it get “hot in herre”?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's good, y'all. It's Markand Jade God both here. We're just
a couple of millennials who met atthe peak of our careers as a beauty
influencer and a corporate cool kid whodecided that life wasn't enough without God.
Our platform and this show are allabout how our journey to healing and how
following after Jesus really changed us andour marriage forever. We aren't your traditional
(00:24):
churchgoers, and we appreciate that aboutourselves. Through our testimonies. We hope
that you find relief, comfort,revelation, and most importantly, the spirit
of God. One thing to hateme today? Have you sad the book
that you're reading about spiritual spiritual oldman? No, I haven't what it
called The Spiritual Man by watchman Knee, by Watch my Knee, Watch my
(00:48):
Knee. I was reading his biasa lot of a lot of their Sure,
yeah, this is, like,I mean, one of his first
I want to say, one ofhis first published words. I'm not sure
if it's technically his first, becauseif you've never heard of watching a knee
before he was a Chinese evangelist Ibelieve who grew up in like the nineteen
(01:14):
twenties, was converted into Christianity basicallyin his teens, like he was seventeen
years old when he was. Butbecause I think people especially in the West,
especially black folks, Yeah, especiallyin the South, where like the
word evangelist it is very like cool, It's a title that people desire,
(01:40):
just like pastor and apostle and bishop. And when we when we talk about
a person in the nineteen twenties ina communist country, yeah, like that
wasn't a title that he was aspiringto have, absolutely not. It was
a sacrifice. So when he whenshe says, like an evangelist in China
(02:02):
and in the hanty twenties, thisain't something that he signed up for it.
This wasn't a work that he desired. This was something that he was
clearly called to do and was alsoliterally sacrificing his life to do so,
and inevitably did sacrifice his life.Like he was eventually thrown into jail for
(02:25):
I want to say, over twentyyears. He was supposed to be released
and they literally did not release thisman, and he died in prison.
But that's where he wrote most,if not all, of the literature that
we have of him Paul. Yeah, so a lot like Paul, and
(02:46):
I don't know what year technically hisworks were translated into English, but they
were not written in English at first, Like he wrote them in you know,
whatever Chinese dialect or language you knowthat he spoke, Like, that's
where this information came from. Soyeah, if y'all don't know, well
(03:08):
most of you don't know, becausethis is more of like on a personal
note for me. But I amalways drawn to random pieces of content,
books that most people probably don't thinkI would ever read or ever be into.
This is one of those books Ilove well honestly though, But that's
(03:30):
been I would say, ever,like the New You, which I would
describe as the true you, likewho you were created to be. You've
always been drawn to like those typesof things. Yeah, they just aren't
popular. Yeah, so it's like, you know, a quote unquote guilty
(03:54):
pleasure, but not really because thisis like who you're supposed to be.
Yeah, So as I saw youand see you you know, kind of
really dobby into that. Now Ithink it's dope because it actually helps me
more than you know. And likeeven that's why we're talking about this now,
because you've been talking about what itis to be lad spiritually, and
(04:21):
you've been talking about it a lotmore since you've been listening to this book.
And today when I'm reading my book, something hit me, like the
Holy Spirit dropped something on me thatwas just insane, and it was that
(04:45):
good and evil were not words usedby God. They were words used by
Satan. Satan used good and evilthrough the serpent. Satan, through Eve's
heart, continue that narrative to gether to eventually partake of that fruit.
(05:08):
And it's in that narrative that wego through our entire lives. Like,
I'm not realizing that neither one ofthose is correct. It's all about obedience.
I can do something, I cansay, Babe, we're gonna give
our house away to the person upthe street who may need it. But
(05:30):
if God didn't tell me to doit, that good intention just leaves us
out here with no provision because God'snot there right, just like on the
flip side doing bad things. Yea, God's clearly not there in that either.
You know what's so crazy is thatjust brought me back to a memory
(05:58):
of when I was in what wasthis fourth or fifth grade and I was
living in Germany at the time,and I got selected to be in the
Gifted in Talented program and we weredoing projects like presentations, and it was
(06:20):
when I first learned how to doPowerPoint, and everyone had a different subject
matter that they were supposed to focuson. And this is my very first
abstract assignment, and I remember itwas specifically on the concept of good versus
evil, light versus dark and showingthose parallels in different ways, and I
(06:46):
remember being so confused as to howto break that down and how to really
showcase what the differences and how toactually show like binary ideas like duality.
And I remember I wrote about differentyou know, times in history like Hitler
(07:15):
and the Nazis, because I wasliving in Germany at the time and we
were doing a lot of like andfrank kind of subject matter in my other
like classes, and I really rememberspending time with this idea of what is
good versus evils, what's bad,what makes something bad, and what makes
(07:36):
something good? And I think thatfrom a very young age, we are
asked that question completely in the contextof you decide as a person what is
good and what is bad. That'swhy Jesus said, don't call me good.
(07:57):
Only the Father's good, because itwas in Satan saying to Eve,
you're good enough to make this decisionon your own, and we're not.
So Jesus does this a lot wherehe's like, the way you know that
you're not over the line because thereis a line, don't go near the
line. So nobody is good.Nobody is your father, but your father
(08:20):
in heaven. Nobody is good,not even me, but God. Because
as soon as you start to thinkthat you're good, then you start to
think that whatever I do is goodor whatever I think, whatever I think
I'm supposed to do, is right, and that's subjective, and I think,
like maybe that was part of likemy confusion even back then, was
(08:43):
like I remember asking myself, like, but what makes something good versus something
bad? Because even then, becausethink about it, the timing of this,
this was like two thousand and one, two thousand and two. Again,
I'm living in Germany, my parentsare in the military. September eleventh
just happened, Okay, So thatwas actually very fresh on my mind because
(09:05):
our entire lifestyle was changed because livingin a foreign country, essentially the country
that when the military sent troops fromthe US to Afghanistan, and at that
time, the base that my parentsworked at was the stopping point between the
(09:26):
US and Afghanistan or Iraq, Sothere was this whole thing of US potentially
being a terrorist attack point in thefuture, so there was increased security and
all these things. There was alsothis heightened level of fear and anxiety and
just like everything going on. Mindyou, I'm like ten or eleven attule
(09:50):
ten at that point, and Ihad actually just left the country of Turkey,
living there in a Muslim country forthree years. I had a Muslim
Turkish nanny who I absolutely loved,who actually sent her daughter with us to
(10:13):
Germany when we first moved to actuallybe our nanny in her place, because
my mom was, you know,working in the military, and so it
was my stepdad, but it wasfour of us, so it was actually
not this like luxury thing to havea nanny back then. It was actually
very affordable at that time because Turkey'seconomy was so much lower than hours,
(10:39):
so like they my mom and myparents could afford to have somebody come live
with us. So on top ofthat, in those formative years as being
a little kid, I grew upin an environment that I knew I didn't
believe in Islam, but I wasaround it. We did not live on
a base. We lived in Ismir, Turkey, which is a city where
(11:01):
the government buildings that my parents workedin were essentially like incognito in the city.
Like my parents didn't even wear militaryuniforms to work every day, even
though they were enlisted personnel. Like. So anyway, I say all that
to say that I actually lived likea civilian Ish when we lived in Turkey,
(11:26):
and I fell in love with thepeople there, and I only knew
Muslim people to be kind and welcomingand comforting, and even though clearly I
wasn't of that religion, I wasnever treated crazy. I was never looked
at. You know, I gotsome stairs and things, but you know,
(11:46):
that's just being an American and ina foreign country, not necessarily anything
else. But so again, Igrew up there. And then I'm in
Germany for a year. September eleventhhappens, and all of a sudden,
I start seeing people demonizing people ofIslam in ways that I was just so
(12:09):
confused by, because I literally rememberthinking, how can they say that these
people are bad when I know thesepeople in real life, and they're not
bad. They're they're not bad.They're actually nicer to me than most Americans,
like they're so for me at tento eleven years old to then be
(12:35):
asked this question of like what isgood versus bad? And I'm really sitting
here like, well, the mediathat I see, like the news and
the military that my parents are enlistedin, is saying that these people that
look like this and practice this religionare bad. But I knew that how
(13:00):
is that possible? Because it didn'tcorrelate with like the reality that I knew.
So rewind the how is that possible? Part? Because I think that
we're going far there. Let's justgo back to who is in the sea
(13:20):
making the call right right, becausethat that's what Jesus is trying to say.
By you calling that person good,then that means they're in the place
of God. To be your ownGod is rebellion. So I can't say
(13:43):
that you're good and you're bad becausethat means that I'm sitting in that judgment
seat to be able to determine whenI can't see hearts yea. And God
judges the inward appearance. Man judgethe ourward appearance the ourd appearance is what
actually confuses you. Yeah, awolf in cheap clothing. Yeah, so
(14:05):
to be in the clothing means Ilook like a sheep. Yeah, you
don't know that I'm a wolf,right, facts, Like, and that's
how most most of the time,we try to categorize people based on how
they present themselves or how they moveor whatever. And I think, like
that's always been something for me,like growing up overseas and just being around
(14:26):
people of different lifestyles and walks offaith, and you know, really knowing
people and understanding that like, yes, we may not believe the same things,
but heart and love and patience andkindness supersedes those things. So again,
(14:46):
I like think back to that momentwhen I was ten eleven years old,
Like, and I'm asked this questionof like create a presentation where you're
describing and showing the differences between goodand evil and that contrast programming. But
you know, but we ask kidsthese questions and part of it, though,
(15:07):
part of it is good in thesense of your challenging a child to
expand their way of thinking, toexpand beyond just like you know, very
simplified ideas. Because this was likean abstract This was an abstract opportunity for
me to challenge my mind. Yeah, but there's always to no, no,
(15:30):
no, and I know there's otherways. But but it's not even
a place to learn how to playGod. No, but that's not they
didn't. I think that you withwhere you are now part I know that,
But that's what I'm saying. That'swhy stuff like good intentions it's off
(15:50):
because just because the intention was wasgood. Eve's intentions were good. But
hold on before you there. Godallows us the space to explore our minds
and knowledge, and He never isangry or upset with us asking questions.
(16:18):
So I say that in the contextof this project, I believe that it
was a good thing. And Ipersonally will ask our kids questions like these,
not because I want them to stayin that seat, but because I
want to challenge them and their understandingof the idea that if you don't put
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God in that seat, you couldput yourself in that seat, or you
could put someone else in that seat, some entity in that seat. Like
if you're an individual, right,you have your own set of my,
own set of thoughts, own setof way of thinking. You make decisions
on your own kind of ways.Right. Then there are people who kind
(17:10):
of go into the space of groupthinkwhere they don't know this or that,
and they feel unsure about making specificstatements or specific ideas and beliefs solid for
them, so they would rather trustwhere they see the group going, like
they like in those studies where theyshow of the times are right. That's
(17:33):
not my point here. I'm tryingto discuss the actual concept of this decision
making. Okay, so you haveyour individual who's making decisions on their own
merit. Then you have groupthink wheresomeone else or some entity, some group
is making the decisions and you're acceptingand embracing them. Right. And then
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there's a third option. The thirdoption is to have a faith, a
theology, a doctrine that you followthat is beyond what any man in any
scenario could give you or do.Right. So, whether the man is
you the person like your own mind, the man is a group of men
(18:17):
who have decided that this is goingto be how we make decisions and this
is going to be our belief system, or you have this spiritual, this
faith focused way of living and makingdecisions. And what I'm saying is that
experience showed me that now bringing itall back obviously in hindsight, showed me
(18:44):
that in a very simple way,that teacher was asking me what route do
I take, but in that specificassignment, she was placing me in the
You be the decision maker. Yoube the one that decides how these beliefs
(19:06):
and decisions are made as a person, as an individual, that actually was
the first time I stepped outside ofgroup think, because at ten years old,
all you have is group think.All you have is well, my
parents says this, or this iswhat the TV said, or this is
(19:26):
where I've grown up. You don'thave the maturity to understand that, like
there's differences between those things. Andso now as an adult, and I
think that we underestimate how smart likekids and teenagers are to where you can
actually lay out these options, like, yes, you can be the master
(19:48):
of your domain. You can bethe individual that makes this the decisions,
and you don't take what other peoplesay for you know, for truth,
you figure it out on your own, You make your own decisions on your
own you know path. Or youcan just follow the crowd and decide to
be part of a group and doit that way, or you can actually
(20:10):
go through this spiritual relationship where God, the Holy Spirit is the one giving
you information or building up how youmake these decisions in your life and how
you determine what good and bad isbased on what God says. So I'm
showing you that like that practice,that assignment actually just shows you how like
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you can be pressed to start makingdecisions under one of these three categories and
actually not recognize that you're being forcedinto one or the other. And the
idea is that you have to actuallydecide first, well not first, but
eventually you get to a point whereit's like, Okay, am I making
(21:02):
choices this way as an individual?Am I making choices this way? As
as far as part of being agroup? Or am I making decisions based
on what my faith, what myspiritual person says, like what God says
for us. So what I'm saying, I get what you're saying. There's
(21:22):
something missing here because we don't haveto experience the bad to appreciate the good.
That's like saying that the best teacheris an experience, when the Bible
says that the best teacher is faith. So while yes, we underestimate like
(21:45):
how smart kids are, but wedon't underestimate how smart kids are. Not
We're not talking about an audience.We're talking about us. We don't underestimate
our children. They won't need tohave an exercise where they're they're trying to
(22:06):
decipher good and evil because they haveexamples of parents that are spiritually lad.
So that cuts out the need forme to have to. I don't have
to. That's not my as aparent. That's what the world tries to
get me to do. God doesn'task me to do that. As I
read about the relationship between the Fatherand between Adam and Eve, everything that
(22:30):
they needed to know, he wasteaching them. It came when they had
there they started to ask questions thatdidn't They were asking questions that even in
that God was still teaching them whatthey asked for. It was when they
started to get ahead to put themselvesin a position to where they had to
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make a decision between good and evil. Meanwhile, they never had to make
the decision. I understand what you'resaying. So they're going to see us.
Yeah, we're teaching them by ouractions. What they see us establishing
and expanding, they will do this. We're just being talking about this in
(23:15):
the group. I'm a group ofmen merriment of God, as we call
it. But that very thing wherewe underestimate the power that we have,
the dominion that we have to establishand to expand. Our wives do it,
follow it, so do our kids. We alleviate by us doing our
(23:40):
job as parents being led. Wealleviate all that extra stuff, and we
guess what, we don't have toomany examples of that because nobody's doing it.
Because everybody's doing it the same assee I'm not I'm following experience.
Were experience ain't how we're raising ourkids. I understand that bad. But
(24:03):
listen, what you're saying comes offas an assumption of if I do this
this specific way, if I parentthis specific way, then there's no Then
there's no I know, then there'sno way that our children would deviate from
(24:26):
that path because we're What I'm sayingis that if they do, just like
everybody's born with their own agency tomake their own decisions. Yes, so
if they do, don't be becausethey decided to do it, and it
has nothing to do with what Idid or did not teach them. My
(24:47):
job is should do what I'm thatwhat God tells me to do Yeah,
when I do that, if theygo off and do whatever and do whatever,
I know. But what I'm sayingis that or you didn't. No,
that's not my place because I knowyou're doing it. But they want
to do yes, whether talking thator not. My point is this,
(25:08):
realistically, we're talking realistically. Okay, I'm saying realistically, I'm prepared for
them to veer off. Yeah,and I am too, but that's not
going to be because well, theydidn't understand good news. No, I'm
not. I'm not saying that.I'm not saying that. I'm saying I
(25:30):
want to help them be able todecipher through life when they do veer off,
when they do get curious about theworld and they go off and they
are exposed to things that we haveno control over. When they're out here
and they're seeing things and just tryingto navigate spaces without us present and without
(25:56):
this safety, you know, putplace that we've created for them in our
home. I want to teach themat a young age how decision making should
function, but at the same timediscussing how different we make decisions versus the
world does so from a perspective ofbeing able to speak from a worldly perspective,
(26:22):
not because I believe in that worldlyperspective anymore, but because I used
to live by that worldly perspective,and being able to say from a real
place, like I understand why SIAI, you are drawn to these things out
there. Let me explain to youwhy I understand because of my own testimony,
(26:45):
and also let's actually have a conversationor conversations about why you're drawn into
these things, and being able towalk with her through whatever that looks like
without feeling like I, as aparent, did something wrong along the way,
where I didn't do what I wassupposed to do because she's into something
(27:08):
that I would not choose for her, or what something that God would not
choose for her. That's because whenyou're talking the way that you're talking,
it feels like pressure. It feelslike if you're not a perfect exact no
no, no, no no no. That's the point of this whole conversation.
That's where we started. The enemyasked the pressure because he's adding the
(27:33):
questions. But there's gonna be nono, no, no, no no
no no, there's gonna be Letme finish, please, let me finish,
Please, let me finish the best. As you were talking, this
came to me. The best thingthat my mom did for me is introduced
me to God, because because thereality is she wasn't with me through some
(27:56):
of the hardest times in my life. It was in my ability in those
hard times to know that I couldpray. That's the best thing that we
can teach our kids, walking themthrough stuff that might or might not happen,
adding the pressure up. What Ichecked the boss. I talk about
no along the journey as if Godsays do this, we're obedient to do
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that, not saying here, notsaying well, I'm gonna make sure that
they go through this good and evilthing. And I make sure I never
said that you said, and Iquote, I'm going to have new conversations
about good and evil because that becausethat helped me. But tell us to
that's just your good intention, notbeing obedient, because who's this thinking that
(28:48):
there's added pressure when there's not.Adam and Eve thought or Eve really thought
that there was added pressure to besomething that she didn't have the capability to
be. God the Father was sayingeverything that you need, I am.
So if you have a question aboutsomething, they have a question about something,
they come and talk to us.We give them my testimony. So
(29:12):
God said, hey, let's alsopray. That's teaching them that if I
have a question, first, Ican go to my father. I go
to my mother, no judgment.No they're trying to put something on me.
I always have a decision, nomatter what they taught me. Two,
(29:32):
if they're not around, I cango to my father. That's no
pressure on us because there's no roomfor that. That's for God. We
accept that pressure when we insert ourselvesand our own experiences to say, ah,
well I don't know if I coulddo this, or well I needed
(29:53):
this and I grew up, letme get us. But did I say,
dude that It always come back tothat, and you would say that,
and it would honestly be kind ofannoying because I'll be like, what
does she mean? Like what doesshe meaning? Did guy said? Like?
(30:15):
And through the what's going on nowin our lives? Through like what
guys believing me reading all of this, it's like, Yeah, that's a
real thing in all things. That'sthe difference between actually being spiritually led and
not, because it's in the onetime that you think what is this good
(30:37):
like I'm doing this to help them, But that's not that we go a
ride and that open ups the doorfor Satan to influence us because of our
good intentions, He's not gonna comewith bad stuff that we already know,
like okay, like go kill thatperson like that ain't of God, I'm
not doing that. No, itcomes in a good intention that feels like
(31:03):
no, I'm I'm this is agood thing to do. I feel good
about this, and it's like yeah, but guys like that's still that's not
me because a good intention will stillsend you to hell. Okay, let's
all folks say, um, theroad to hell is paved with good intentions,
(31:27):
right, Okay, why are you? Why are you angry? Because
I feel like you're not understanding myperspective and you're also I think that you
are simplifying something that yeah, Ijust it's cool, I'm simplifying something or
(31:56):
what. No, it's fine,we can move on to the next conversation.
We clearly can't move on to thenext conversation because it's very clear that
you feel away I do because you'reyou're you are adamant about your point and
you're not actually biblical context. I'ma highlight. Okay, you're you're We've
(32:21):
had conversations like this before where Iwas on the other side of this,
and my approach is, yo,that's actually true. Like I don't I
didn't think about it like that.But that's not that's not mine. Your
approach be I just feel away andbecause like I'm not agreeing with what you're
(32:45):
saying, and I'm in the bestway I know how, disagreeing with what
you're saying, giving you biblical context, book context, using the same stuff
that you've said to me. Aswhy when what you're saying is literally doing
the exact thing that we're talking about, like not doing That's no, that's
(33:09):
not what this is. At theend of the day, when we have
conversations and you're trying to prove apoint, you can have all the facts
in the world, you can haveall the knowledge the biblical scripture to back
it up, all of that,but if you're not practicing gentleness, if
(33:30):
you're not practicing like reading the roomand stepping outside of your mind for a
moment, because when you start tryingto prove a point and you've got all
these facts and all these like thatWhat you're not realizing in this conversation is
(33:50):
that I'm not disagreeing with you.You think that I don't understand you,
and that's an and so on myintelligence, what I'm saying is something different.
What I'm saying is I simply willbe coming from a place of wisdom
(34:12):
with our children, whether they decideto walk the path we have walked or
not. I'm saying I appreciate theexperiences that I've had in my past that
have challenged me to think about whatit means for me to decide in my
own way what is good and whatis evil, because that has helped build
(34:37):
this concept of me being able toexplore who even decides what good and evil
is, and that has pushed mecloser to God because I recognize that this
man over here that claims to bethis versus this man over here that claims
(34:57):
to be that are really the sametheme because they're both not God. So
all I'm saying is I want tocreate an environment for our children where they
can explore their thought processes in thatway if they desire to, and I
will be in a position where Ican help them walk through that mental practice.
(35:25):
Because if God has given them thecapacity to do that at a young
age or old age whatever. Intellectually, I want to be in a position
to support that. I'm not tryingto sit here and go back and forth
with you whether or not your pointis right or wrong. Your point is
(35:47):
correct, but it is not theway that I would approach or how I
move in discussions like this. Thisis where you and I do for you.
Try to compare the way that Irespond in these situations with your way
of responding when we are two differentpeople. Not only are we two different
(36:12):
people, but you are a manbuilt differently than me as a woman,
especially emotionally, so when you arehidden with facts, facts, truth through
truth, okay, but I don'tcare about none of that. If you're
coming off like hard in brash,it's interesting because in my mind, and
(36:42):
even before I, you know,speak, I'm collecting, you know,
I'm literally asking guy like okay,like show me somewhere else, So it
sounds you know better, And therecomes a point that, however I said,
it doesn't that because in my mind, as I'm going back and forth,
(37:05):
I'm thinking that I'm doing that.But the only thing that I'm not
doing I would have to work onhow to I guess disagree even more gracefully
because I thought that I was,but I think that it's more so in
the disagreement part than anything else.And like, yeah, that got a
(37:32):
little testy, got a little spicy. We had to take a break at
this point because we were both justfeeling types of ways and needed to step
away from the conversation and that wasuncomfortable to do on this show while we're
(37:53):
recording. But at the same time, at this point, y'all know,
we try to be as transparent andhonest about who we are, what we
stand by, and how we especiallyoperate as a married couple. And sometimes
when you get into heated debates oryou get into conflict, like you need
(38:15):
to step away. And at thispoint in our recording session, we were
both kind of exhausted, just notfeeling it anymore. And so this is
going to be the end of partone of this two part episode, because
you guys know we love a goodtwo part episode, And next week you
(38:37):
will hear the continuation of this conversationand how we kind of came back from
this talk and how we resolved it. Because I think it's important that you
all hear the aftermath of a conversationlike the one that you just heard for
(38:59):
us, and how we talk throughjust when you know we may not be
seeing eye to eye in a situation. And also in next week's episode,
you'll hear a bit more about howwe used to deal with each other in
moments of conflict and how they usedto really go left and how far we've
(39:21):
come. And so we really diveinto that a bit more or a bit
rather in next week's episode. Sodefinitely check back in with us next week
Saturday morning per usual. Again,we appreciate y'all tuning in every week,
and we love y'all, and wewill see in the next episode. Mark
(39:46):
and I hope you enjoy today's episode. It's truly a pleasure to be a
part of your day. Keep upwith us on social media, but also
feel free to email us at teamat the guideboatlife dot com if you got
any prayer request us or questions thatwe can answer until next time. Chat
soon. Bye bye,
What's good, y'all. It's Markand Jade God both here. We're just
a couple of millennials who met atthe peak of our careers as a beauty
influencer and a corporate cool kid whodecided that life wasn't enough without God.
Our platform and this show are allabout how our journey to healing and how
following after Jesus really changed us andour marriage forever. We aren't your traditional
(00:24):
churchgoers, and we appreciate that aboutourselves. Through our testimonies. We hope
that you find relief, comfort,revelation, and most importantly, the spirit
of God. One thing to hateme today? Have you sad the book
that you're reading about spiritual spiritual oldman? No, I haven't what it
called The Spiritual Man by watchman Knee, by Watch my Knee, Watch my
(00:48):
Knee. I was reading his biasa lot of a lot of their Sure,
yeah, this is, like,I mean, one of his first
I want to say, one ofhis first published words. I'm not sure
if it's technically his first, becauseif you've never heard of watching a knee
before he was a Chinese evangelist Ibelieve who grew up in like the nineteen
(01:14):
twenties, was converted into Christianity basicallyin his teens, like he was seventeen
years old when he was. Butbecause I think people especially in the West,
especially black folks, Yeah, especiallyin the South, where like the
word evangelist it is very like cool, It's a title that people desire,
(01:40):
just like pastor and apostle and bishop. And when we when we talk about
a person in the nineteen twenties ina communist country, yeah, like that
wasn't a title that he was aspiringto have, absolutely not. It was
a sacrifice. So when he whenshe says, like an evangelist in China
(02:02):
and in the hanty twenties, thisain't something that he signed up for it.
This wasn't a work that he desired. This was something that he was
clearly called to do and was alsoliterally sacrificing his life to do so,
and inevitably did sacrifice his life.Like he was eventually thrown into jail for
(02:25):
I want to say, over twentyyears. He was supposed to be released
and they literally did not release thisman, and he died in prison.
But that's where he wrote most,if not all, of the literature that
we have of him Paul. Yeah, so a lot like Paul, and
(02:46):
I don't know what year technically hisworks were translated into English, but they
were not written in English at first, Like he wrote them in you know,
whatever Chinese dialect or language you knowthat he spoke, Like, that's
where this information came from. Soyeah, if y'all don't know, well
(03:08):
most of you don't know, becausethis is more of like on a personal
note for me. But I amalways drawn to random pieces of content,
books that most people probably don't thinkI would ever read or ever be into.
This is one of those books Ilove well honestly though, But that's
(03:30):
been I would say, ever,like the New You, which I would
describe as the true you, likewho you were created to be. You've
always been drawn to like those typesof things. Yeah, they just aren't
popular. Yeah, so it's like, you know, a quote unquote guilty
(03:54):
pleasure, but not really because thisis like who you're supposed to be.
Yeah, So as I saw youand see you you know, kind of
really dobby into that. Now Ithink it's dope because it actually helps me
more than you know. And likeeven that's why we're talking about this now,
because you've been talking about what itis to be lad spiritually, and
(04:21):
you've been talking about it a lotmore since you've been listening to this book.
And today when I'm reading my book, something hit me, like the
Holy Spirit dropped something on me thatwas just insane, and it was that
(04:45):
good and evil were not words usedby God. They were words used by
Satan. Satan used good and evilthrough the serpent. Satan, through Eve's
heart, continue that narrative to gether to eventually partake of that fruit.
(05:08):
And it's in that narrative that wego through our entire lives. Like,
I'm not realizing that neither one ofthose is correct. It's all about obedience.
I can do something, I cansay, Babe, we're gonna give
our house away to the person upthe street who may need it. But
(05:30):
if God didn't tell me to doit, that good intention just leaves us
out here with no provision because God'snot there right, just like on the
flip side doing bad things. Yea, God's clearly not there in that either.
You know what's so crazy is thatjust brought me back to a memory
(05:58):
of when I was in what wasthis fourth or fifth grade and I was
living in Germany at the time,and I got selected to be in the
Gifted in Talented program and we weredoing projects like presentations, and it was
(06:20):
when I first learned how to doPowerPoint, and everyone had a different subject
matter that they were supposed to focuson. And this is my very first
abstract assignment, and I remember itwas specifically on the concept of good versus
evil, light versus dark and showingthose parallels in different ways, and I
(06:46):
remember being so confused as to howto break that down and how to really
showcase what the differences and how toactually show like binary ideas like duality.
And I remember I wrote about differentyou know, times in history like Hitler
(07:15):
and the Nazis, because I wasliving in Germany at the time and we
were doing a lot of like andfrank kind of subject matter in my other
like classes, and I really rememberspending time with this idea of what is
good versus evils, what's bad,what makes something bad, and what makes
(07:36):
something good? And I think thatfrom a very young age, we are
asked that question completely in the contextof you decide as a person what is
good and what is bad. That'swhy Jesus said, don't call me good.
(07:57):
Only the Father's good, because itwas in Satan saying to Eve,
you're good enough to make this decisionon your own, and we're not.
So Jesus does this a lot wherehe's like, the way you know that
you're not over the line because thereis a line, don't go near the
line. So nobody is good.Nobody is your father, but your father
(08:20):
in heaven. Nobody is good,not even me, but God. Because
as soon as you start to thinkthat you're good, then you start to
think that whatever I do is goodor whatever I think, whatever I think
I'm supposed to do, is right, and that's subjective, and I think,
like maybe that was part of likemy confusion even back then, was
(08:43):
like I remember asking myself, like, but what makes something good versus something
bad? Because even then, becausethink about it, the timing of this,
this was like two thousand and one, two thousand and two. Again,
I'm living in Germany, my parentsare in the military. September eleventh
just happened, Okay, So thatwas actually very fresh on my mind because
(09:05):
our entire lifestyle was changed because livingin a foreign country, essentially the country
that when the military sent troops fromthe US to Afghanistan, and at that
time, the base that my parentsworked at was the stopping point between the
(09:26):
US and Afghanistan or Iraq, Sothere was this whole thing of US potentially
being a terrorist attack point in thefuture, so there was increased security and
all these things. There was alsothis heightened level of fear and anxiety and
just like everything going on. Mindyou, I'm like ten or eleven attule
(09:50):
ten at that point, and Ihad actually just left the country of Turkey,
living there in a Muslim country forthree years. I had a Muslim
Turkish nanny who I absolutely loved,who actually sent her daughter with us to
(10:13):
Germany when we first moved to actuallybe our nanny in her place, because
my mom was, you know,working in the military, and so it
was my stepdad, but it wasfour of us, so it was actually
not this like luxury thing to havea nanny back then. It was actually
very affordable at that time because Turkey'seconomy was so much lower than hours,
(10:39):
so like they my mom and myparents could afford to have somebody come live
with us. So on top ofthat, in those formative years as being
a little kid, I grew upin an environment that I knew I didn't
believe in Islam, but I wasaround it. We did not live on
a base. We lived in Ismir, Turkey, which is a city where
(11:01):
the government buildings that my parents workedin were essentially like incognito in the city.
Like my parents didn't even wear militaryuniforms to work every day, even
though they were enlisted personnel. Like. So anyway, I say all that
to say that I actually lived likea civilian Ish when we lived in Turkey,
(11:26):
and I fell in love with thepeople there, and I only knew
Muslim people to be kind and welcomingand comforting, and even though clearly I
wasn't of that religion, I wasnever treated crazy. I was never looked
at. You know, I gotsome stairs and things, but you know,
(11:46):
that's just being an American and ina foreign country, not necessarily anything
else. But so again, Igrew up there. And then I'm in
Germany for a year. September eleventhhappens, and all of a sudden,
I start seeing people demonizing people ofIslam in ways that I was just so
(12:09):
confused by, because I literally rememberthinking, how can they say that these
people are bad when I know thesepeople in real life, and they're not
bad. They're they're not bad.They're actually nicer to me than most Americans,
like they're so for me at tento eleven years old to then be
(12:35):
asked this question of like what isgood versus bad? And I'm really sitting
here like, well, the mediathat I see, like the news and
the military that my parents are enlistedin, is saying that these people that
look like this and practice this religionare bad. But I knew that how
(13:00):
is that possible? Because it didn'tcorrelate with like the reality that I knew.
So rewind the how is that possible? Part? Because I think that
we're going far there. Let's justgo back to who is in the sea
(13:20):
making the call right right, becausethat that's what Jesus is trying to say.
By you calling that person good,then that means they're in the place
of God. To be your ownGod is rebellion. So I can't say
(13:43):
that you're good and you're bad becausethat means that I'm sitting in that judgment
seat to be able to determine whenI can't see hearts yea. And God
judges the inward appearance. Man judgethe ourward appearance the ourd appearance is what
actually confuses you. Yeah, awolf in cheap clothing. Yeah, so
(14:05):
to be in the clothing means Ilook like a sheep. Yeah, you
don't know that I'm a wolf,right, facts, Like, and that's
how most most of the time,we try to categorize people based on how
they present themselves or how they moveor whatever. And I think, like
that's always been something for me,like growing up overseas and just being around
(14:26):
people of different lifestyles and walks offaith, and you know, really knowing
people and understanding that like, yes, we may not believe the same things,
but heart and love and patience andkindness supersedes those things. So again,
(14:46):
I like think back to that momentwhen I was ten eleven years old,
Like, and I'm asked this questionof like create a presentation where you're
describing and showing the differences between goodand evil and that contrast programming. But
you know, but we ask kidsthese questions and part of it, though,
(15:07):
part of it is good in thesense of your challenging a child to
expand their way of thinking, toexpand beyond just like you know, very
simplified ideas. Because this was likean abstract This was an abstract opportunity for
me to challenge my mind. Yeah, but there's always to no, no,
(15:30):
no, and I know there's otherways. But but it's not even
a place to learn how to playGod. No, but that's not they
didn't. I think that you withwhere you are now part I know that,
But that's what I'm saying. That'swhy stuff like good intentions it's off
(15:50):
because just because the intention was wasgood. Eve's intentions were good. But
hold on before you there. Godallows us the space to explore our minds
and knowledge, and He never isangry or upset with us asking questions.
(16:18):
So I say that in the contextof this project, I believe that it
was a good thing. And Ipersonally will ask our kids questions like these,
not because I want them to stayin that seat, but because I
want to challenge them and their understandingof the idea that if you don't put
(16:45):
God in that seat, you couldput yourself in that seat, or you
could put someone else in that seat, some entity in that seat. Like
if you're an individual, right,you have your own set of my,
own set of thoughts, own setof way of thinking. You make decisions
on your own kind of ways.Right. Then there are people who kind
(17:10):
of go into the space of groupthinkwhere they don't know this or that,
and they feel unsure about making specificstatements or specific ideas and beliefs solid for
them, so they would rather trustwhere they see the group going, like
they like in those studies where theyshow of the times are right. That's
(17:33):
not my point here. I'm tryingto discuss the actual concept of this decision
making. Okay, so you haveyour individual who's making decisions on their own
merit. Then you have groupthink wheresomeone else or some entity, some group
is making the decisions and you're acceptingand embracing them. Right. And then
(17:53):
there's a third option. The thirdoption is to have a faith, a
theology, a doctrine that you followthat is beyond what any man in any
scenario could give you or do.Right. So, whether the man is
you the person like your own mind, the man is a group of men
(18:17):
who have decided that this is goingto be how we make decisions and this
is going to be our belief system, or you have this spiritual, this
faith focused way of living and makingdecisions. And what I'm saying is that
experience showed me that now bringing itall back obviously in hindsight, showed me
(18:44):
that in a very simple way,that teacher was asking me what route do
I take, but in that specificassignment, she was placing me in the
You be the decision maker. Yoube the one that decides how these beliefs
(19:06):
and decisions are made as a person, as an individual, that actually was
the first time I stepped outside ofgroup think, because at ten years old,
all you have is group think.All you have is well, my
parents says this, or this iswhat the TV said, or this is
(19:26):
where I've grown up. You don'thave the maturity to understand that, like
there's differences between those things. Andso now as an adult, and I
think that we underestimate how smart likekids and teenagers are to where you can
actually lay out these options, like, yes, you can be the master
(19:48):
of your domain. You can bethe individual that makes this the decisions,
and you don't take what other peoplesay for you know, for truth,
you figure it out on your own, You make your own decisions on your
own you know path. Or youcan just follow the crowd and decide to
be part of a group and doit that way, or you can actually
(20:10):
go through this spiritual relationship where God, the Holy Spirit is the one giving
you information or building up how youmake these decisions in your life and how
you determine what good and bad isbased on what God says. So I'm
showing you that like that practice,that assignment actually just shows you how like
(20:38):
you can be pressed to start makingdecisions under one of these three categories and
actually not recognize that you're being forcedinto one or the other. And the
idea is that you have to actuallydecide first, well not first, but
eventually you get to a point whereit's like, Okay, am I making
(21:02):
choices this way as an individual?Am I making choices this way? As
as far as part of being agroup? Or am I making decisions based
on what my faith, what myspiritual person says, like what God says
for us. So what I'm saying, I get what you're saying. There's
(21:22):
something missing here because we don't haveto experience the bad to appreciate the good.
That's like saying that the best teacheris an experience, when the Bible
says that the best teacher is faith. So while yes, we underestimate like
(21:45):
how smart kids are, but wedon't underestimate how smart kids are. Not
We're not talking about an audience.We're talking about us. We don't underestimate
our children. They won't need tohave an exercise where they're they're trying to
(22:06):
decipher good and evil because they haveexamples of parents that are spiritually lad.
So that cuts out the need forme to have to. I don't have
to. That's not my as aparent. That's what the world tries to
get me to do. God doesn'task me to do that. As I
read about the relationship between the Fatherand between Adam and Eve, everything that
(22:30):
they needed to know, he wasteaching them. It came when they had
there they started to ask questions thatdidn't They were asking questions that even in
that God was still teaching them whatthey asked for. It was when they
started to get ahead to put themselvesin a position to where they had to
(22:52):
make a decision between good and evil. Meanwhile, they never had to make
the decision. I understand what you'resaying. So they're going to see us.
Yeah, we're teaching them by ouractions. What they see us establishing
and expanding, they will do this. We're just being talking about this in
(23:15):
the group. I'm a group ofmen merriment of God, as we call
it. But that very thing wherewe underestimate the power that we have,
the dominion that we have to establishand to expand. Our wives do it,
follow it, so do our kids. We alleviate by us doing our
(23:40):
job as parents being led. Wealleviate all that extra stuff, and we
guess what, we don't have toomany examples of that because nobody's doing it.
Because everybody's doing it the same assee I'm not I'm following experience.
Were experience ain't how we're raising ourkids. I understand that bad. But
(24:03):
listen, what you're saying comes offas an assumption of if I do this
this specific way, if I parentthis specific way, then there's no Then
there's no I know, then there'sno way that our children would deviate from
(24:26):
that path because we're What I'm sayingis that if they do, just like
everybody's born with their own agency tomake their own decisions. Yes, so
if they do, don't be becausethey decided to do it, and it
has nothing to do with what Idid or did not teach them. My
(24:47):
job is should do what I'm thatwhat God tells me to do Yeah,
when I do that, if theygo off and do whatever and do whatever,
I know. But what I'm sayingis that or you didn't. No,
that's not my place because I knowyou're doing it. But they want
to do yes, whether talking thator not. My point is this,
(25:08):
realistically, we're talking realistically. Okay, I'm saying realistically, I'm prepared for
them to veer off. Yeah,and I am too, but that's not
going to be because well, theydidn't understand good news. No, I'm
not. I'm not saying that.I'm not saying that. I'm saying I
(25:30):
want to help them be able todecipher through life when they do veer off,
when they do get curious about theworld and they go off and they
are exposed to things that we haveno control over. When they're out here
and they're seeing things and just tryingto navigate spaces without us present and without
(25:56):
this safety, you know, putplace that we've created for them in our
home. I want to teach themat a young age how decision making should
function, but at the same timediscussing how different we make decisions versus the
world does so from a perspective ofbeing able to speak from a worldly perspective,
(26:22):
not because I believe in that worldlyperspective anymore, but because I used
to live by that worldly perspective,and being able to say from a real
place, like I understand why SIAI, you are drawn to these things out
there. Let me explain to youwhy I understand because of my own testimony,
(26:45):
and also let's actually have a conversationor conversations about why you're drawn into
these things, and being able towalk with her through whatever that looks like
without feeling like I, as aparent, did something wrong along the way,
where I didn't do what I wassupposed to do because she's into something
(27:08):
that I would not choose for her, or what something that God would not
choose for her. That's because whenyou're talking the way that you're talking,
it feels like pressure. It feelslike if you're not a perfect exact no
no, no, no no no. That's the point of this whole conversation.
That's where we started. The enemyasked the pressure because he's adding the
(27:33):
questions. But there's gonna be nono, no, no, no no
no no, there's gonna be Letme finish, please, let me finish,
Please, let me finish the best. As you were talking, this
came to me. The best thingthat my mom did for me is introduced
me to God, because because thereality is she wasn't with me through some
(27:56):
of the hardest times in my life. It was in my ability in those
hard times to know that I couldpray. That's the best thing that we
can teach our kids, walking themthrough stuff that might or might not happen,
adding the pressure up. What Ichecked the boss. I talk about
no along the journey as if Godsays do this, we're obedient to do
(28:22):
that, not saying here, notsaying well, I'm gonna make sure that
they go through this good and evilthing. And I make sure I never
said that you said, and Iquote, I'm going to have new conversations
about good and evil because that becausethat helped me. But tell us to
that's just your good intention, notbeing obedient, because who's this thinking that
(28:48):
there's added pressure when there's not.Adam and Eve thought or Eve really thought
that there was added pressure to besomething that she didn't have the capability to
be. God the Father was sayingeverything that you need, I am.
So if you have a question aboutsomething, they have a question about something,
they come and talk to us.We give them my testimony. So
(29:12):
God said, hey, let's alsopray. That's teaching them that if I
have a question, first, Ican go to my father. I go
to my mother, no judgment.No they're trying to put something on me.
I always have a decision, nomatter what they taught me. Two,
(29:32):
if they're not around, I cango to my father. That's no
pressure on us because there's no roomfor that. That's for God. We
accept that pressure when we insert ourselvesand our own experiences to say, ah,
well I don't know if I coulddo this, or well I needed
(29:53):
this and I grew up, letme get us. But did I say,
dude that It always come back tothat, and you would say that,
and it would honestly be kind ofannoying because I'll be like, what
does she mean? Like what doesshe meaning? Did guy said? Like?
(30:15):
And through the what's going on nowin our lives? Through like what
guys believing me reading all of this, it's like, Yeah, that's a
real thing in all things. That'sthe difference between actually being spiritually led and
not, because it's in the onetime that you think what is this good
(30:37):
like I'm doing this to help them, But that's not that we go a
ride and that open ups the doorfor Satan to influence us because of our
good intentions, He's not gonna comewith bad stuff that we already know,
like okay, like go kill thatperson like that ain't of God, I'm
not doing that. No, itcomes in a good intention that feels like
(31:03):
no, I'm I'm this is agood thing to do. I feel good
about this, and it's like yeah, but guys like that's still that's not
me because a good intention will stillsend you to hell. Okay, let's
all folks say, um, theroad to hell is paved with good intentions,
(31:27):
right, Okay, why are you? Why are you angry? Because
I feel like you're not understanding myperspective and you're also I think that you
are simplifying something that yeah, Ijust it's cool, I'm simplifying something or
(31:56):
what. No, it's fine,we can move on to the next conversation.
We clearly can't move on to thenext conversation because it's very clear that
you feel away I do because you'reyou're you are adamant about your point and
you're not actually biblical context. I'ma highlight. Okay, you're you're We've
(32:21):
had conversations like this before where Iwas on the other side of this,
and my approach is, yo,that's actually true. Like I don't I
didn't think about it like that.But that's not that's not mine. Your
approach be I just feel away andbecause like I'm not agreeing with what you're
(32:45):
saying, and I'm in the bestway I know how, disagreeing with what
you're saying, giving you biblical context, book context, using the same stuff
that you've said to me. Aswhy when what you're saying is literally doing
the exact thing that we're talking about, like not doing That's no, that's
(33:09):
not what this is. At theend of the day, when we have
conversations and you're trying to prove apoint, you can have all the facts
in the world, you can haveall the knowledge the biblical scripture to back
it up, all of that,but if you're not practicing gentleness, if
(33:30):
you're not practicing like reading the roomand stepping outside of your mind for a
moment, because when you start tryingto prove a point and you've got all
these facts and all these like thatWhat you're not realizing in this conversation is
(33:50):
that I'm not disagreeing with you.You think that I don't understand you,
and that's an and so on myintelligence, what I'm saying is something different.
What I'm saying is I simply willbe coming from a place of wisdom
(34:12):
with our children, whether they decideto walk the path we have walked or
not. I'm saying I appreciate theexperiences that I've had in my past that
have challenged me to think about whatit means for me to decide in my
own way what is good and whatis evil, because that has helped build
(34:37):
this concept of me being able toexplore who even decides what good and evil
is, and that has pushed mecloser to God because I recognize that this
man over here that claims to bethis versus this man over here that claims
(34:57):
to be that are really the sametheme because they're both not God. So
all I'm saying is I want tocreate an environment for our children where they
can explore their thought processes in thatway if they desire to, and I
will be in a position where Ican help them walk through that mental practice.
(35:25):
Because if God has given them thecapacity to do that at a young
age or old age whatever. Intellectually, I want to be in a position
to support that. I'm not tryingto sit here and go back and forth
with you whether or not your pointis right or wrong. Your point is
(35:47):
correct, but it is not theway that I would approach or how I
move in discussions like this. Thisis where you and I do for you.
Try to compare the way that Irespond in these situations with your way
of responding when we are two differentpeople. Not only are we two different
(36:12):
people, but you are a manbuilt differently than me as a woman,
especially emotionally, so when you arehidden with facts, facts, truth through
truth, okay, but I don'tcare about none of that. If you're
coming off like hard in brash,it's interesting because in my mind, and
(36:42):
even before I, you know,speak, I'm collecting, you know,
I'm literally asking guy like okay,like show me somewhere else, So it
sounds you know better, And therecomes a point that, however I said,
it doesn't that because in my mind, as I'm going back and forth,
(37:05):
I'm thinking that I'm doing that.But the only thing that I'm not
doing I would have to work onhow to I guess disagree even more gracefully
because I thought that I was,but I think that it's more so in
the disagreement part than anything else.And like, yeah, that got a
(37:32):
little testy, got a little spicy. We had to take a break at
this point because we were both justfeeling types of ways and needed to step
away from the conversation and that wasuncomfortable to do on this show while we're
(37:53):
recording. But at the same time, at this point, y'all know,
we try to be as transparent andhonest about who we are, what we
stand by, and how we especiallyoperate as a married couple. And sometimes
when you get into heated debates oryou get into conflict, like you need
(38:15):
to step away. And at thispoint in our recording session, we were
both kind of exhausted, just notfeeling it anymore. And so this is
going to be the end of partone of this two part episode, because
you guys know we love a goodtwo part episode, And next week you
(38:37):
will hear the continuation of this conversationand how we kind of came back from
this talk and how we resolved it. Because I think it's important that you
all hear the aftermath of a conversationlike the one that you just heard for
(38:59):
us, and how we talk throughjust when you know we may not be
seeing eye to eye in a situation. And also in next week's episode,
you'll hear a bit more about howwe used to deal with each other in
moments of conflict and how they usedto really go left and how far we've
(39:21):
come. And so we really diveinto that a bit more or a bit
rather in next week's episode. Sodefinitely check back in with us next week
Saturday morning per usual. Again,we appreciate y'all tuning in every week,
and we love y'all, and wewill see in the next episode. Mark
(39:46):
and I hope you enjoy today's episode. It's truly a pleasure to be a
part of your day. Keep upwith us on social media, but also
feel free to email us at teamat the guideboatlife dot com if you got
any prayer request us or questions thatwe can answer until next time. Chat
soon. Bye bye,
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