Gospel of Malcolm X Christopher Sartain Podcast

Uncovering the Original Teachings of Jesus Christ
with Christopher Sartain of the Essene Ebionite Church Peace, family. In this episode, I’m joined by Christopher Sartain, founder of the Essene Ebionite Church of Christian Mysticism, for a powerful conversation about the original message of Jesus — before it was reshaped by empire, politics, and church doctrine. We dive deep into the teachings of Jesus, James the Just, and the Ebionite tradition, while exploring how all of this ties into the mission and message of Malcolm X. This isn’t your average Bible study — it’s a call to return to something ancient, revolutionary, and real. 🔹 Topics include:

• Who Jesus really was and what he taught
• The Ebionites and early Christian mysticism
• Why James the Just matters more than Paul
• The connection between Christ’s message and Black liberation
• The spiritual roots of justice and truth

Whether you're coming from a faith background or you're just searching for something deeper — this one is for you.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-gospel-of-malcolm-x--6048026/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Who will hip hop beat thirty years from now? I
guess I should keep studying my peers for now. Should
I make a dance and snap dumbs? Fast, high hats,
eight away back trumps? Are we selling though souls for
thirty two pieces a go? If it's lack of the soul,
how can it remain hold? We make music for a
strip of holes, but no music to think. That's the
short term money that we put in the bank. But

(00:43):
the dramas going backwards. I see devolution instead of evolution.
This is sole prostitution. The children are fumbling, even got
the elders and carriage and mumbling. Watching them stumbling, then
you have to tell you it's so humbling. Meanwhile, I
stock has been plummeted, and they're telling me I need
to sound like the other niggas thrown mass being trying
to sound like the younger niggas used to have balance.

(01:05):
Back in the days we had challenge. Trying to be
original was the challenge. Now all these niggas sound the same,
and all the beasts count the same, the same, Katie
sat Trumps and all that shit sounded range niggas trying
to sound like feature and a love rocking future. But
that's challenge for feature niggas need a different producer the bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Crash your computer and it'll be cool about being.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
The brothers and sisters. You're tuned into another episode of
the Gospel of Malcolm X's podcast. I am your host,
brother Eric. As always, it is my pleasure to be
back in the studio with you once again. Today we
have a very very special guest.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
He Hells from the country of Killing as the founder
of the scene Abbion Knight Church. Now, I might be
saying that wrong in the order, but I know it's
both see and Ebion Night. He'll correct me in a
few here. And uh, you have to go and check
out his YouTube channel now and the least. And he

(02:02):
has good literature as well in terms of his books
and just he's just a total wealth of knowledge on
the subject of early Christianity and the early Messianic movement,
which is why I thought that he would be such
an amazing guest to have here with us. So thank

(02:25):
you so much for joining us, and welcome to the
Gospel Michael X Podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Man, It's a
real pleasure and an honor to be with you and
your listeners. Yeah, it's the seen Ebunite Church of Christian
Mysticism is the YouTube channel. But some people pronounce ebu
Nite Ebionite, which is fine. But the original Hebrew word

(02:50):
is ebonym and which means the poor ones. And they're
essentially the sort of original Jewish Christian followers of James,
Jesus's brother and that original movement that they called the
Jerusalem Church. Eventually, that group had to flee around the

(03:11):
time of the Jewish War around seventy a d. When
the Temple was destroyed, and they fled to the other
side of the Jordan River to Pella and some other
towns within the Dicopolis and anyway, so they later became
known as the ebu Knites. But yeah, in English, a
lot of people say Ebio Knights, but I prefer to

(03:31):
to say Ebunites because it's a little bit closer to
the original Hebrew term. So that's Essene Ebunite Church of
Christian Mysticism. That's the title of the YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
And you grew up Southern Baptist. I myself, I grew
up non denominational. A lot of my listeners have some
exposure to you know, traditional American church, whether Baptist method
is non denominational. How did you get interest in finding
out more about the original teachings of Jesus.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, it's a long story, but yeah, I grew up
in a Southern Baptist church in rural Georgia where I'm
from originally, and you know, there was a lot of
good things about about that church growing up, real nice
community and fellowship. You know, we went three days a
week or three times a week rather Sunday morning, Sunday night,

(04:27):
Wednesday night, and for example, you know the Wednesday night
pot lux after the church service were you know, phenomenal,
all that good Southern food and soulfide, and we had
a great music department.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
It was.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
It was a cool church. You know, it's pretty diverse,
and you know it just the thing was the theology
and the dogma. I just I never I can remember
being like ten eleven, twelve years old, you know, sitting
in the church peuless into the preacher and just thinking, man,

(05:03):
this just doesn't make any sense, Like how did somebody
dying on a cross like absolve my sins? You know,
how is it possible to have like the remission of sins?
Or the forgiveness of sins from somebody dying on a cross.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
It just never that.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
And so, but I didn't know at the time that
Paul had more or less invented that so called blood
atonement doctrine, right, and that he sort of concocted that
whole like salvation theology basically out of whole cloth. I
had no idea, of course, because they don't teach you
that in your local rural Georgia Southern Baptist church grown up.
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yes, now, some would argue, like you know, in terms
of you know.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
They they would say that the and this is this
is going to and I want to get trying not
to get ahead of myself here, but the sacrificial system,
they would say, well, blood atonement always what God needed,
you know, it Without Jesus, then you know, how do
you atone for your sins?

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I mean, if you really study the Old Testament
and you look at you know, a lot of the
books of the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah, Hoseiah, Amos and others,
about half the prophets, maybe more than half the prophets
in the Old Testament say that God never required sacrifices
and that actually that was a corruption of the Torah

(06:30):
and the Law of Moses and everything. The sacrifices were
never required, never desired. And I mean there's just a
whole host of Bible verses from the Old Testament railing
against the practice of animal sacrifice. And then later on
you find in the so called pseudo Clementine literature of
the Recognitions and Homilies, which are texts from around one

(06:53):
hundred and fifty AD something like that, but they're based
on older source texts, some of which are I believe
from the first sin Tree, like the Sense of James
and all that. Anyway, and the Recognitions and Homilies is
full of verses, and these are Jewish Christian texts, by
the way, eb Unite texts, and they're they're full of
verses that that say as much that God never acquired sacrifice.

(07:15):
This was a corruption of the scripture and was basically
invented by the priestly cast you know, and the Levites
and all that. You know that you find in the
Book of Leviticus and and all this stuff, all this
information about sacrifices. But they were getting fat and rich
off the sacrifice system, you know, sacrifice and animals, charging
people to sacrifice animals in the temple, and the Jerusalem

(07:37):
Temple had essentially turned into a slaughterhouse, a butcher shop.
It was a bloodbath, you know.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
And the blood could come all the way up to
a person's like knees or something like that.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
That's right, that's right. I mean, it's just disgusting to
think about. And so actually that was a pagan, demonic
practice animal sacrifice, and so that was never really meant
to be part of that Jewish, original authentic Jewish system.
And so yeah, that came a little bit later. Anyway,
long story short, you know, Jesus was never a sacrifice

(08:12):
because God never acquired sacrifices, and so, you know, Paul
and others sort of invented that that theology, and unfortunately,
to this day, you know, there's two billion Christians currently
on planet Earth that that buy into this. I'm sorry
to say, but nonsense, you know, And and it was
never it was never meant to uh, that's it's never

(08:35):
what God intended. It's never what Yeshuah Jesus intended. And
so essentially that whole blood atonement doctrine is bunk because
God never acquired sacrifices. He never desired sacrifices. So the
idea that he would have to sacrifice his own son son,
you know, for the remission of sins, is just silly.

(08:57):
And furthermore, you know, the the recognitions and homilies that
Ebionite literature was just talking about, and also going back
to like some of the Dead Sea scrolls, like the
Community Rule and some of the other Dead Sea scrolls
which are like one hundred you know, one hundred years
before Christ hundred BC or maybe even older. They talk

(09:19):
about how baptism had already replaced animal sacrifice for the
remission of sins, and that you know that, and that's
what the Essenes practice, baptism for the remission of sins.
John the Baptist practice baptism for the remission of sins.
Yashua and his disciples also practiced baptism for the remission
of sens.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
And this is like going along the reason of why
when he was telling people to repent, he's saying repent
and be baptized, and as like a part of the
the process of remission of sins, not just yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Absolutely, Actually, man, when we talked before, you kind of
blew my mind because It's something I hadn't really ever
thought about before, which you blew my mind when you said, well,
you know, Yashua had already sent his disciples out during
his own lifetime right to go preach the gospel. Well,
what on earth was he? What on earth? You know,

(10:10):
what gospel was he preaching? Then? Was he going? Did
he tell his disciples? Did he tell his disciples to
go out and tell people that, yeah, I died on
a cross for your sins as atonement for your sins,
believe in me and my death and resurrection, et cetera.
So obviously not, dude, because he was still alive, he
was still around, So exactly, he obviously told his disciples
to go out and preach repentance, and they were baptizing people,

(10:33):
and so obviously, like you know, baptism, repentance, atonement, baptism,
all that had already replaced animal sacrifice by the time
you know, Jesus was around, and so the idea that
he would need to be a sacrifice somehow for the
remission of sins is just nonsense. It's historically inaccurate. And basically,
Paul invented his own his own religion. Man, he invented

(10:55):
his own thing. He invented the Eucharist. There's more more
information coming out about that, you know, Yes, yes, the
first mention of the blood and body, you know, symbolism
and all that, and.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Let's talk about that a bit. And let me also say,
what better day for us to be talking about it?
Speaking of divine providence as a term my dad always uses,
we're talking about this, you know, on the eve coming
up here of a good Friday. So hopefully this is
you know, by the time the listeners get to this,

(11:26):
it will be good Friday.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
And what better time to talk about that.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
You talked about the original Eucharist, which I believe is
in the dedicay. Could you speak to like, you know
what the dedicay is? And basically some of my listeners
might even need to know where the Eucharist is, but
I think they'll they'll have that, but just in terms
of the dedicay and what was originally.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
There, Yeah, you know the Eucharist, and a lot of
churches they call it communion, holy communion. Who notes where
you drink the well my church grown up, you know,
in Southern Baptist Church, we drank grape juice and had
like a little piece of assaulting cracker basically, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
But yeah, the athlete hit the spy. That symbolism, it
is like they were eating a real milk. Can I
get a milk?

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's right. So the original Eucharist, I mean,
going all the way back was basically like a Thanksgiving
banquet dinner, you know, and uh, and that they would
eat on a Saturday night, not Sunday morning. But anyway, Yeah,
So the the Dedicae is a Jewish Christian text. It
did not make it into the Cannon, so it's not

(12:37):
in the Bible. Unfortunately. It's one of my favorite texts.
My four favorite Jewish Christian so called texts are really
Q the Q source, which was the sayings source used
in Matthew and Luke, Uh, the Gospel of Thomas, which
I believe is a Jewish Christian text and not a
Gnostic text. Uh, the Epistle of James, which is in
the Bible, and the Dedicay and so the Dedicay was

(13:02):
really written between seventy AD and one hundred a d.
And in it it contains an older, more authentic version
of the Eucharist that uses different symbolisms. So the wine
symbolizes the vine of David. So you know, basically like

(13:24):
you sue us bloodline and or something like that, you know,
but the vine, so the grape juice, the vine, right,
it doesn't symbolize blood in other words, so it's and
then and then the bread symbolizes union, like the union
of the church, because when you take a bunch of

(13:46):
grains and stuff and you you know, so it's a
bunch of single grains and everything. And then when you
bring all those grains together and you know, pulverize the
grains and everything to make bread, and then you make
the into the dough and it's this one united dough, right,
and so that symbolizes like the unity of the church

(14:09):
and the unity of christ followers and and all that.
So it had a totally different symbolism. It meant like,
you know, the vine of David, like that coming from
the root of David Netzer and Hebrew, I believe, which
is where you get the word Nazarene Jesus the Nazarene,

(14:30):
not Jesus of Nazareth.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
That's another thing we can do.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
But so so, but Paul, Paul invented this this whole
symbolism of like you know, wine symbolizing blood. That the
idea of an observant Jew drinking blood is unthinkable. It's
it's just it's impossible Jews. You know, that's one of
the main rules or laws you find in the Old

(14:54):
Testament is to not drink blood and all that. So
the idea that a Jew would drink blood as part
of a religious ritual, it's just insane. It's insanity. So
paul clearly invented that. The first mention of it ever,
or the oldest mention is in First Corinthians, which was
written about twenty years after she was crucifixion thereabouts, and

(15:16):
then Mark copied that almost word for word, and that's
the oldest gospel, written around seventy eighty. And so unfortunately,
you know, the all four of the canonical Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John are just infected with this Pauline mind virus,
and so they're really not very reliable. You have to

(15:37):
use a lot of discernment when you read the canon.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Right, and I did.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Once you did mention the difference between Nazareth and the
naza being from Nazareth and being a Nazarene. What is
the difference there and why do you suspect that that
change was made.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Very complicated, but essentially in the New Testament, there are
two different spellings in Greek for the word Nazarene and
one we could just just to simplify matters, let's call
one Nazarene and one Nazaren. Nazarene means somebody from Nazareth, right,

(16:22):
But nazaren is used far more often in the Old
test in the New Testament rather, and it actually means
somebody that is a member of a group that we
can call the Nazarens. Right, So it's a member of
a sect of a Jewish sect called the Nazarens.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
And so, and that actually an axe, right I think
is well.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Paul is called, you know, a leader of the Nazarenes,
right and acts and so, which means like he's a
leader of a sect of a group. It doesn't mean
that he's the leader of all the human beings that
are from the town of Nazareth, right. So it's pretty
obvious that talking about a group. Furthermore, Josephus, a Jewish
historian living in the first century, did a big survey

(17:06):
and census and map and all this stuff of you know,
ancient Galilee at that time, and he he enumerates all
the cities and towns, hamlets, everything, all the little villages,
everything at that time, and Nazareth doesn't make the cut,
which means it didn't exist at that time, which.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Means he did like a whole survey of the land's
during his time, which would have been pretty much closer
closer to the time of Jesus than when we when
we start seeing the term nazar Rif and that that
city didn't exist during the time of Josephus.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
It it there may have been a place there, and
it could it's possible that Jesus was born there and
from there. But here's the deal. It wasn't called Nazareth
until after his time, and it was named after him,
Jesus the Nazareen, and so they named the town Nazarith
after him, and not the other way around. He was

(18:06):
a member of a group or a sect. And there's
an early church father theologian named Epiphanius and an epithet
in his work the Panarian or Panorion. I get tripped
up with all these pronunciations and stuff, But he writes
about different groups. He writes about the eb Unites, he

(18:27):
writes about the Essenes and all these different Jewish Christian groups,
and he writes about the Nazarenes and says that they
existed before the time of Christ. So it's pretty clear
like this was a pre existent group and that Yeshia
was a leader within that group. And furthermore, he says
that that group was there were vegetarians, and they were

(18:49):
against the practice of animal sacrifice and all that.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Wow, very interesting.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
And speaking of that, what role do you believe that
James played in the Early Church And do you believe
that his leadership was downplayed or overwritten at all?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh? Yeah, big time. Yeah, I mean he was. He
was appointed by Yashua to be his successor, and it
says so on the Gospel of Thomas very clearly, the
disciples asked Jesus, you know, like, who should we follow
when you're when you're gone, he says, don't follow anybody
except James the just, James the Righteous, and so James
or Yakov. Yeah, he was the leader of the Early Church,

(19:31):
and all the early Church fathers say as much. You
find information about him and the recognitions and homilies as well,
because they used that source text called the Essense of James,
which is all about James.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
And and Jo writes about James as well, Right, who
Josephus he writes about Uh.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, seems like he does. Or yeah, I think he
writes about how he was killed and stuff like that.
But yeah, I mean, and I think he died around
sixty two sixty three eighties. But yeah, so he was
the he was the leader of the early Jerusalem Church.
You know, Paul writes about him also, and in some
of his letters he says that he met him and stuff,

(20:10):
and that he was Jesus's brother, calls him the brother
of the Lord, and he uses that term Lord always
to refer to Jesus. And so because he totally deified Jesus,
that's another part of Paulinism or Pollyanity that we don't
find in the early Jewish Christian tradition. They didn't really
deify Yeshua. They referred to him as the true prophet

(20:32):
and the Messiah, but they didn't equate him with God
like you find and and Paul's theology. But anyway, so, yeah,
I mean, there's a lot of information about James. He was,
he shew his brother, He was the leader of the
early Church. You know, some of the early church fathers
write about him and say that he was a vegetarian
from birth, that he wore only white, white linen tunic,

(20:55):
which is what the Essiens wore. You know, the Essens.
All they were allowed to wear was white linen tunics.
They wouldn't wear anything else. So it's pretty clear that
you know, all all these you know, John the Baptist,
maybe not John the Baptist, but because he wore different clothes,
he was kind of a you know, he was an
eccentric dude living in the wilderness. But most of the

(21:15):
early disciples and everything, they wore white linen tunics, which
is a very Essene thing. The Nazarenes were most likely
a sect of Essenes at any rate. So James was
a vegetarian from birth. And also in Paul's letters, you know,
when he's talking about the leaders of the church, he
mentions James, the brother of the Lord Peter and John,

(21:37):
and he basically implies that they're vegetarians, you know, and
that they're eating a vegetarian diet, and he kind of
gets into a bit of a tift with them and
all that, because, you know, he he didn't think he
needed to be a vegetarian to be a Christian, and
he was okay with eating meat, and he was teaching
all his gentile followers that it was okay to eat meat,

(21:59):
even meat sacriate to idols, sacrifice to other gods and
all that. So he said that was perfectly fine, and
don't worry about it, you know, don't judge people if
they do that. Well, dude, I'm not you know, I'm
not judging anybody, like I'm worried about God judging me,
you know what I mean. So, like, yeah, I don't.
I don't judge anybody for eating meat. I could care less,
you know, but I mean, it'd be great if everybody

(22:20):
is vegetarian. But yeah, I'm just trying to follow God's law,
you know what I mean. So, and that's all the
early Christians were doing too, following you Shue as example,
because obviously if they were all vegetarians, then obviously Jesus
was a vegetarian.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
You know, very very interesting, and so.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
We know that that James would have gotten his authority
from Jesus, and Jesus would have given authority to his
different apostles. And we see, I think you were referring
to the situation that took place in Galatians early. I
think he got into a tact with it was like
James Peter Barnabas someone else, but it was it was

(23:01):
like three of them.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
And he's like even led barbusiness stray.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Where where did Paul get his authority from? Because if
he didn't get it from he never met Jesus, right,
so he never met Jesus. He didn't get his authority
from any of these apostles. Where where did he get
his authority from?

Speaker 3 (23:23):
He claims he got it straight from from his visions
of Jesus. You know, he said he had divine revelations
and all that. Even when he's talking about the Eucharist
and First Corinthians, he doesn't say that he learned it
from many of the apostles. He said he he obtained
it by means of divine revelation directly from Jesus. So,
you know, I equate Paul with like any of these

(23:44):
modern cult leaders who just claimed to channel you know,
ascended masters or extraterrestrials or you know, they they are joke.
Joseph Smith, like the leader of the Mormon Church, he
kind of did the same, you know, the same deal
we list goes on and on, man, But like all
these modern cult leaders that just claimed to like channel
these ascended masters, you.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Know, or Jesus, the people that would have actually shared
the meal with.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeshua. And then it's just his account that he got
from a vision.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Every a lot of what he says is just out
of his own head, you know. Well, according to him,
he gets it from divine revelation. But that's real difficult
to prove, man, you know. So I would rather, I
would rather follow the Yeshia from from you know, from
his words, you know what I mean, Like what he
actually taught the Red letters in the Bible, although even

(24:42):
a lot of that is corrupted, but most of it's good,
you know.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
And and what.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
You find in the Gospel of Thomas, what you find
from James his brother in the Epistle of James. Although
it's possible that James didn't write that, but he had
ascribe write it for him or something like that.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's one of my favorite books.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh so good, so good. The dedicate is fantastic, The
recognitions and homilies are really really good. And of course
the so called Gospel of the eb Unites or Gospel
of the Hebrews or the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew. They're
all the same book. It's lost to us now, but
I think twelve different no more than that, a bunch

(25:20):
of different early Church fathers quote from it, and so
we know it existed, and it was written in Hebrew,
and it was probably older than all four canonical Gospels,
which were written in Greek. It's even possible that Yeshua's
actual disciple, Matthew, who we know was one of the
few literate disciples that he had. It's possible he even
wrote it. And we still have like forty something versus

(25:45):
from it. You know that you can find and all
the writings of the early Church fathers, and so yeah,
I tried to go back to the earliest possible so
called Jewish Christian sources. And the only reason we use
that term, that designation Jewish Christian is to differentiate it
from the gentile Christianity of Paul Right. But it's kind
of a misnomer because it's it's just Christianity. It's just

(26:07):
the earliest Christianity, the most authentic, genuine Christianity that one
can find, once you peel back all the layers and
all the nonsense and all the pauline stuff.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Definitely, And I got kind of a I guess, a
curveball fact to share or maybe you might have some
input on this. Are you from familiar with Chuscolo from Mexico,
the from like the Aztec history?

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah quite so quadal Yes.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
That's probably a better pronunciation of it. Yes, So I was.
I was watching some like ancient alien stuff, and I
was fascinated because they talked about him, and they said
that he abandoned like human sacrifice, he abandoned animal sacrifice
and told them that that basically that they did not

(27:06):
need to do this for repentance. What is your take
on that? Is there any connection between this person and
yet sure or the tradition or.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, I mean now we're now we're getting into like
speculation and stuff. I tend to think. You know, I
live here in South America. You know I've been. I
spent a lot of time in Peru and Bolivia, you know,
hanging out in the ruins up there around Cusco and
Lake Tedri, Kaka, tijuanak Tunaku, Puma, Punku, Machipchu, all that stuff.

(27:44):
I love all that stuff right and down here their
God the old Inca god. It wasn't really incas was
pre Inca is called Vera Kocha now via Coocha has
a lot of stuff in common with Quetzo Kuadal because
both had beards, which is real weird because Native Americans
don't grow beards. Right, So obviously whoever this god was

(28:07):
Queta Quadal and Central America and be a coacher down
here had a beard, right, So we don't know where
he was from, but obviously he was from overseas and uh, anyway,
so it's possible that. Now, look, man, we're just speculator.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
I know that we can't make the stuff that we
are saying about Paul and the history and the dedicate. Definitely,
you anyone can look this stuff up and see that
everything that Christopher has been laying out is is historical.
It's factual. You could do your research and find the
earliest sources. But I just found it interesting that the

(28:52):
teachings were similar in the abolishment of let's say, the
sacrifice official system, or the opposition to it, at least
I found to be very interesting.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
You're blowing my mind. I've never heard that, but but
I will say this. I will say this, if you
go to Cusco and you study with some of the
shaman that are part of the Inca priesthood. They're still around.
They will tell you they're vegetarians and they don't drink alcohol,

(29:28):
and they like to like kind of you know, go
off in nature by themselves and pray and spend a
lot of time alone and all that. And it's very
similar to what you find in early Christianity because they
were also vegetarians and teetotalers. Teetotalers means they don't they
don't drink alcohol, and so the Essenes were teetotalers. Yeshiwa,

(29:50):
I don't think drank alcohol. I think he drank grape juice,
you know, the and the Hebrew word for new wine
is tuoche, and so new wine is just grape juice.
I mean, it doesn't have alcohol.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Well, why do you think that the whole line thing, like,
where do you think that is that? Is that a symbolism?
Is that a corruption?

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Or I think they just uh, just mistranslations and stuff
like that. Ignorance, you know. But but the evy Uknites
clearly were against drinking alcohol. So the Esscenes there were
the proto Christians that you know, John the Baptist and
Yushuwa come out of did not drink alcohol. And then

(30:30):
we know that Peter and James they were all teetotalers.
They didn't drink alcohol. His disciples and then the Evy
Units which is the original Christian movement, did not drink alcohol.
So obviously it's pretty clear Jesus didn't drink alcohol, you
know what I mean. But yeah, but so those Inca
priests are vegetarians, they don't and they don't drink alcohol,

(30:53):
drink alcohol, which is pretty interesting, and they have a
very like sort of ascetic almost more nastic kind of
kind of lifestyle and all that, although they marry and
all that. But so it's interesting. But anyway, so they
say that all of that goes all the way back
to Viracocha, who is this you know, sort of like

(31:15):
this wisdom teacher that came from overseas and that came
and taught taught the people that were living there and
all that. And again he's always depicted with a beard,
which is really really weird, man, because you know, some
of these statues are two three thousand years old, wow,
And so you know, Native Americans don't grow beards and

(31:37):
never have so it's pretty interesting. And this is the
same thing with Quetze Kuada. So look, you know we're speculating,
but h and also of course the Book of Mormon,
you know, say what you want to about Joseph Smith
and you know all that stuff. But of course you
know he taught that like Yeshiwa had had survived or

(31:58):
you know, after he reas directed or whatever, that he
traveled all over the world and taught.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
What's funny is that I thought to ask you that
for some reason, when you mentioned Joseph Smith earlier, that's
when the question popped into my mind. Now we're talking
about a weekend coming up, a holiday that celebrates salvation
and Jesus saving the world, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I mean, wouldn't it make sense that during that time?

Speaker 1 (32:26):
I mean, of course, now there's been missionaries in Spain,
has like conquered the world through the sword and raped
and pilgrimage and brought Christianity through the world in that way.
But wouldn't it make sense during the time of Yeshua
that his teachings would have come you know, cross continental
at that time or is this message only for.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Such a small group of people? You know?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, and it's possible that it wasn't your shoe himself,
as possible that it was some of his disciples or
apostibles or followers or whatever that came. And do you
find some stone slabs with Hebrew writing in different places
in North America from around two thousand years ago and

(33:13):
a little and a little after. Now. Some of those
finds are controversial. Some people think they're hoaxes and stuff
like that. But but there's a lot of like, you know,
legitimate archaeologists and researchers PhD people in major universities who say,
I think one of one of the guy's name is
Barry fell F E.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
L L.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
So you can look his books up. But a lot
of people think that, like these are legitimate artifacts and
that they have you know, ancient ancient Hebrew writings, you know,
Ten Commandments and other stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
And I think I think that Christopher Columbus and this
is not I'm not saying this is a fact, but
someone could look this up. I think that Christopher Columbus
said that he did they practice circle decision right, some
of the Native Americans that he encountered.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Oh really, yeah, I didn't know that, I believe, So maybe.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
I believe so.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Now, at the same time, he did say this thing
about them not knowing what a sword was and if
like one of them cut their hands because they knew
no war, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
But I believe I did read that.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, maybe I don't know, but so yeah, I mean
there is some evidence, although it's there's not a lot,
but yeah, certainly possible. You know that Jesus, but you know,
after the Resurrection, he traveled far and wide. Of course,
there's stories also in India, you know, of him traveling
there and teaching people in Kashmir and and all this stuff.

(34:45):
And his name was Esha and and again, I mean, man,
it's it's so hard to prove any any of the stuff,
but it's certainly interesting to I mean, I'm way into it,
you know. I read, I read about all.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
This stuff exactly and so much, so much was the
destroyed in terms of when the way I'm learning more about,
you know, growing up Protestant, you know, I really wasn't
exposed to a whole lot of the stuff in terms
of Catholicism, which I think is still the largest branch
of Christianity. So I didn't realize that for the most part,

(35:22):
like let's say after they they over wrote James and
basically killed him off and got rid of all of
the Essene teachings and all of the original teachings. The
only thing that was left pretty much above ground all
the way up into the time of like Martin Luther,
was the Catholic Church. I didn't realize that, and I

(35:42):
don't think most Protestants realized that that's all Christianity. That
was like what Christianity was for a long period of time.
And during that time a lot of things were i
know in terms of like the Mayans and.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
The Aztecs and things like that.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
When the Spanish got to them, they not only killed
them off, they destroyed a lot of their written literature.
So some of these things may have been written down,
and we know, we just don't have the history anymore.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, it's certainly possible. Yeah, I mean, the Catholic Church
distorted and corrupted so much of the original tradition that
you know what, I think that you know, if Yashua
or James came back today and they visited like a

(36:37):
you know, an Orthodox church or a Catholic church or
even a Protestant church, you know, they'll just be that
version of Christianity that is being taught now would just
be wholly unrecognizable to them.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, but it's weird because then at the same time,
as corrupt as it is, they still have more things
from the original Christianity, which is weird, like the fasting
for Lent, or the monasteries, like having the monasteries and
people that participate in the vegetarian diet, and things like

(37:11):
some of the goods I'm sorry, and baptism too, baptism
and then also some of their saints being known to
heal people and things like that. But it's like so much,
so many good things that got left out of Protestants,
left out of the Protestant Church.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
In a better way for me to say it without.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Getting tongues to us this, so many good things that
were left out of the Protestant Church are still in
the Catholic Church. But the Catholic Church overwrote so many
good things that were in that original uh ebbion nitees
Seene church.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Yeah, that's right, and yeah exactly, so a lot of
it has been preserved, you know, and and it was
preserved by the original uh well the knights of course,
and then also by the Desert Fathers, so called the Abbas,
who lived in Egypt. And these were the first Christian monks,
Christian monastics, and they lived in caves and small monasteries

(38:17):
in Egypt, and they were called the Desert Fathers or
the Abbas, and they were ascetics, they were mystics, and
they practiced a contemplative prayer and all these things and
fasting and and and all of that, and so that
then made its way into you know, the Middle Ages

(38:37):
and everything, and you you find a lot of the
Christian mystics during that time that also carried the original
tradition along, like meister Eckhart and Germany, and San Juan
de la Cruz, Santa Teresa de abbe La in Spain,
and a lot of the British Christian mystics and everything,

(38:59):
and so so they they kind of carried along that
original tradition. And then now nowadays you have this sort
of renaissance occurring. You know, friends with some folks that
are really doing their darn.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Your store and Aaron Akba and uh, I think his
name is cam Waters. You guys have been restoring hope
and uh for a lot of people that are not
just myself but a lot of people that I love
the teachings of yes Shure, and you know, have have
searching for God, searching for truth, have respect for the

(39:39):
the Messianic movement and things biblical, et cetera, but haven't
been able to connect with the church for whatever reason.
You guys have been really really like restoring hope and
putting a form of original Christianity back on the on
the map that I feel is really going to help

(39:59):
a lot of humanity.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
And so I'm.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Definitely excited about this renaissance and excited about what you're
doing with this.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Well, thanks for saying that. That's very nice of you,
but yeah, you know, I I, for the last fifteen
years have been teaching yoga and meditation pretty hardcore still
am you know. My wife and I run a small
retreat center here in a yoga school, and I love
all that stuff. But I've always considered myself a Christian mystic,

(40:27):
especially after I've read the Gospel of Thomas for the
first time when I was in my early twenties. I'm
forty five now, and so I've always pursued these interests,
although I haven't really I haven't really taught much of it.
Publicly until the last few years. I read a couple
of really important books by an author named Keith Acres,

(40:50):
A K. E. R. S. Keith Acres. He's got two
wonderful books. One's called The Lost Religion of Jesus and
the other one's called Disciples, and it's got both books
have a ton of information about the Essenes, the Nazarenes, Nazarenes,
Ebbu Knights, Jewish Christianity, Christian Vegetarianism, and all that stuff,
the recognitions and homilies, all that James, you know, and man,

(41:13):
after I read those books about three years ago, I
just I just got really inspired to like, uh, start
this online ministry. So you know, I started a YouTube
channel and I've got this online ministry going. And Keith
had told me, he said, you know, I participated or
I got interviewed for this documentary that's going to be

(41:33):
coming out in about a year or something called christ Spiracy.
You know, it's really gonna blow the lid off all
this stuff. And and uh, there's this guy Cameron Waters,
you know, this young dude who's just like super passionate,
devoted and to all this stuff. And so yeah, long
story short, like you know, now I'm in and communication

(41:55):
with him and correspondence with him.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
And some of that. In terms of that documentary, Christspiracy.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, it's it's a fantastic documentary. You can watch it
for free at christspiracy dot com or you can pay
it forward so that other folks can watch it for free.
And yeah, Cameron Waters and Kip his filmmaking a partner.
They made this this documentary about Christian vegetarianism, well vegetarianism

(42:26):
in general, like throughout all the spiritual traditions and just
some of the hypocrisy you know, found in Buddhism and yoga,
in Hinduism and in Christianity, you know. And so they
go through a lot of the history all the stuff
we're talking about right now as far as like christian
you know, Christianity has always been a vegetarian tradition from

(42:47):
from the very beginning, you know, since Yashua was walking
on the planet and uh. And so they go through
all of that and it's just a really wonderful deep
dive into everything we're talking about right now. I highly
recommend folks to watch it. Cam is a wonderful person,
you know now that I know him as like a friend,
I mean, he's man, he's walking the walk too, you know,

(43:11):
and like I just feel like he and Aaron Abke,
Aaron's partner in this podcast, the Jesus Way Podcast, James Benefico. Also,
you know, those dudes are really like just pure channels
for the Holy Spirit right now, this reformation and restoration
that's that's going on.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Absolutely, And.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I wanted to mention something else, they just lit my
Oh I remember what it is now so recently, I
guess I should preference this question. So here Gospel of
Malcolm X's podcast. We talk about a lot of history
dealing with Malcolm X, somebody who I feel, through discipline

(43:53):
and following the example of yes You're it talked about
yes You're somewhat as well, rose to be sort of
like a messianic figure who lived like a pure lifestyle
eight once a day, basically lived like a fasting life.
That FBI and CIA followed him around and even in
like following him around, they were like, this guy lived

(44:16):
like a monk, and even they respected him through you know,
the corruption of what they were doing or whatever the
case is. So you know, he got caught up in
a cult, which I talk about a lot of Times,
the Nation of Islam.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
And one of the things that.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
You mentioned yesterday in terms of contrasting religion and mysticism,
I feel like it's something that is very important that
balance in terms of helping people not to get caught
up in casts because we have stuff like mystical experiences
and things like that, or you see a charismatic teacher,

(44:59):
you get caught up in a cool experience. And then
also religion can be sort of dogmatic and off putting.
But you spoke yesterday, I believe that's when I watched
it about balance in the two.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Could you speak a little bit more to that.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, like I've had been blessed enough
to have a lot of mystical experiences. You know, I've
studied Korea yoga with a really enlightened teacher and learned
some really advanced meditation techniques and all that. And through
my practice of these techniques, you know, I've been fortunate
enough to to have a lot of really amazing, you know,

(45:39):
mystical experiences.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
You know, I used to watch videos back in the
day Bob I think his name was Bobby Gee. He's
a Crea yoga teacher. He kind of a heavy set guy.
I used to watch his videos back in the day.
I never did create yoga, but I used to listen
to his talk talks.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Well, yes, so you know, mysticism is really important. But
you know, here's the deal, Like the problem with mysticism,
or it can be a problem, is that a lot
of mystics don't really have any foundation in like a
religious system, and so their mysticism is kind of baseless,

(46:20):
and that that can be sort of dangerous, you know,
because then you don't have the ethical and moral foundation
that you need to build your mystical path upon. And
so that that you know, that's what happens to a
lot of these gurus, you know, these yoga gurus, these
New Age gurus, is that they you know, they experience
some of these exalted states, some of these mystical states,
and all of a sudden, you know that they think

(46:42):
there's something real special.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
I see it a lot, and.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
They get this big, yeah, spiritual ego, and they become
narcissists and and they want to have control over people
and manipulate people because they think they're above them and
superior and all this this kind of stuff. Because they
don't have that, like they don't have this teachings of Yashua,
the true prophet, you know, about humility and and and
all that.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
So master or fall, Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
So anyway, you know, and and there's some good spiritual
teachers out there in gurus and everything that will teach
you very selflessly. They're very humble and all that. But
ninety something percent are not like that, unfortunately. But anyway,
so yeah, So but on the other side, you know,
religious folks, if you know, they they think that mysticism

(47:32):
is kind of a waste of time. It's a useless endeavor.
You can never really know God or experience God directly.
And so for me, religion without mysticism is vapid. It's
sort of shallow, it sort of superficial. But on the
other side, mysticism without religion is baseless and it can
be very dangerous. So we need both, you know, if

(47:53):
we want to be like a complete spiritual seeker. In
my opinion, you know, you do, you you know, but
you know, for all your listeners, you know, thinking what
is this guy talking about? But you do you you know.
But for me in my personal journey, it's important to
have both. It's important to have that strong religious foundation
which I find in the original teachings of Yeshua, and

(48:17):
to have that moral ethical foundation, and then also to
have my mystical practices that I continue to practice on
a daily basis that draw me closer to God. And see,
these two things go hand in hand. I find that
through my mystical practices I grow closer and closer to
the to the Divine. My relationship is improved and deepened

(48:42):
by these mystical practices. And what that does is it
allows me to follow and obey God's law much much easier.
And likewise my religious studies, you know, reading the scriptures,
studying the scripture, studying the history and all that, and
trying to follow God's law as I see it revealed
through the teachings of Yashuah. Of based on God's law

(49:05):
for me is like the Ten Commandments more or less.
You know. The problem is, you know, if you look
at the Old Testament, there's like, I don't know how
many hundreds of laws in there, you know, And and
so it's very difficult to obey all all these sort
of liturgical levitical laws and all that. So I'm certainly

(49:26):
not like a legalist or anything like that. But I think,
you know, you follow the basic the ten commandments and
the two laws that you Sho taught us that are
more important than any others. The two commandments he said
was to love your neighbor as yourself, love God with
all your heart. Actually in the opposite order. So love
God with all your heart and soul, and love your
love your neighbor as yourself, you know. And he also

(49:48):
taught us to love our enemies. He taught us to forgive,
uh if we want to be forgiven, you know, and
uh and and all of that.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
So he followed you had to believe that he rolls
or anything.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
No, you never know, I mean, he never thought anything
about that, you know, Like that's all. That's all. That
all came later. So I just I try to treat
I try to treat people. Is I want to be
treated the golden rule, you know. I try to follow
the ten commandments to the best of my ability. And uh,
I try to love my neighbors myself, love my any
enemy as myself, love all of God's creation as myself.

(50:25):
And and through these mystical experiences of union, it dissolves
all these boundaries and borders of separation and and and distance.
So that's the value of having these mystical experiences. And
so you realize, like, oh, why am I treating my
neighbor as myself because they are part of me? Why
am I treating my enemy as because they are part

(50:47):
of me? You know? Why am I loving a point.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Of things like that? Yes?

Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yes, very interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
So a couple of things I wanted to touch on, Well,
I know, we got to get ready to wrap up here,
but the Dizzy Scrolls and the scene group h dynamics.
What is your your take on on like the community
rule and the Dizzy Scrolls, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yeah, it's super complicated. But essentially, you know, the scenes
were not a monolithic group. They were quite diverse. And
so you had a group that was in Kumran that
wrote most of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the sectarian literature
so called within the Dead Sea Scrolls, and that group

(51:42):
was led by a group of Zadekite priests so called
and and but but so Kumran could only support about
three or four hundred individuals at a time. And but
we're told in the historical documents written by Philo and
Josephus in the first century that they were around four
thousand scenes, and so we know that Kumaran represents only

(52:05):
a small minority of the scenes, and that actually when
you look at some of their sectarian literature, some like
the Temple Scroll, the War Scroll, the parts of the
Damascus Document and stuff like that, there are some differences
between the groups just described by Philo and Josephus and
what we find in some of the sectarian literature from Cumron,

(52:28):
and so there were differences, you know, and well, gosh,
for example, if you look at the archaeology of Cumron,
I think there was something like four or five hundred
sets of burnt animal bones there and altars and stuff.
So they're obviously sacrificing animals and probably eating meat and
stuff like that. I don't know if they all were,
but or the whole time that it was occupied, but

(52:49):
at some point in time during the occupation by that group,
they were sacrificing animals. You know, a lot of the
stuff though, and those those documents is really beautiful, but
you know, there were some differences, I think, and they
might not be completely representative of the group of scenes

(53:12):
that John the Baptist and Yeshua came out of which
I think we can probably call the Nazarenes or Nazarens,
And so I think that kum wrong group had some differences.
There were more apocalyptic for example. You know, some some
scholars equate them more with the Zelots rather than the

(53:33):
scenes and you know, but it's super complicated. I don't
really have a real clear cut answer, to be honest
with you, but I can say that the community rule,
which is one of the secretary and documents, there are
several different manuscripts that were found of it, but there's

(53:53):
a manuscript that was found in Cave four that does
not contain the words Zadekite priesthood and the exactly well,
the Zadekite priests were this group of you know, rebels
rebelling against the Jerusalem Temple, which is good, right, So
that's the one thing that all the Essens have in common,

(54:13):
regardless of all these little, you know, differences in the
minutia and details and all that stuff. They were all rebels,
and they were all rebelling against the Jerusalem Temple and
what they saw as the corruption of the temple by
the Romans and the Herodians and all that kind of stuff.
Or even before that. But anyway, so you know they're
they're rebels, and so that's good. So they were all

(54:34):
rebelling against that that Jerusalem Temple and those Zadekite priests,
you know, Zadok. You know, it looks like it might
just mean righteous, like the righteous ones. But but also
the Zadekites were supposedly like the original priests of the
Jerusalem Temple going way back and all this. So they
they this group claimed to be part of that original lineage,

(54:55):
you know, the Predates, the the Hasmonians, the you know,
it's very complicated the history. But but long story short,
you know, they wrote a lot of good stuff, and
I think they had a lot of good practices and
good beliefs and and everything. They were practicing baptism, ritual,
baptismal purification in these pools that they built there and

(55:16):
all of that, and so so yeah, there's a lot
of good stuff and in the Dead Sea scrolls. But
you know, if I had to trace the lineage of
John the Baptist, Joshua James, the Ebi Knights and all that,
if I had to trace that lineage back, I feel
more comfortable tracing it back to the group described by

(55:36):
Philo and Josephus, and also what we find in the
Community Rule. The community rule is a little more in
line with what we find in the writings of Filoan
and Josephus. But again it's super complicated. But all the
scenes were rebelling against what they saw as you know,
a very corrupt.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
System right in terms of the Roman occupation.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
So to speak to that stuff like you know, when
Jesus spoke about taxes in the Gospels, or to what
extent do you believe he was in conflict with Rome
and with the Herodian family and things like that.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Well, he wasn't a political figure, you know that he
was a spiritual and religious leader, so he didn't really
get himself involved in political stuff. He tried to stay
above the fray, you know, and and not get mired
and a lot of the political stuff going on that
wasn't really his mission, you know what I mean. But

(56:44):
it's interesting because when you look at the communalism, that's
another thing that all these groups have in common. The Essenes,
the Nazarenes, Nazarenes, Ebionites, the early Christians, uh Isshua, you know,
they all taught communalism. What does that mean. Well, that's
one that's another difference between you know, what you find
in Cumron and what you find in you know, the

(57:05):
community rule and and the group described by Filing Josephus
is that they actually shared all their wealth in common,
whereas in some of the secretary and documents that are
manuscripts we find in Cumran they only had to share
a small percentage of their of their wealth, but at
any rate. So yeah, all those groups shared their wealth.
So they but they weren't communists, you know what I mean.
Like communism is something that is enforced by an authoritarian,

(57:33):
totalitarian government. You know, they they force you to share
your wealth, right, you know. But voluntary communalism is something
totally different. And that's where groups of like minded uh
you know, souls get together and decide collectively, Okay, we're
going to live in a commune and we're going to
share all their wealth in common, and we're not going

(57:54):
to have any private property. Well it's kind of interesting
because if you do that and you live off in
the wilderness so called, you know, outside of the population centers,
and you're sharing all your wealth and common and stuff
like that, it's a lot it's a lot harder to
tax those groups.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
So I see, you know, I don't want to speculate.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
I don't want to speculate, but it is possible that,
you know, some of those groups were trying to find
like loopholes and the and the taxation systems as well,
you know.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
And not only that, in addition to being on the
outskirts like that, they had a disciple that was a
tax collector.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Maybe yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
She was, you know, he ate with tax collectors, He
ate with UH centers and alcoholics and prostitutes and all
this stuff because he you know, he was well, he's
just on another level, man, you know. And he was
all about love and compassion. That that was his mission,
is to teach us how to love one another unconditionally,
but also how to how to awaken spiritually. And so

(58:59):
that's you know again that's the religion and the mysticism.
He really taught both. And he taught that, you know,
ethics and morality based upon the Golden Rule, based upon
based upon compassion. But then if you look at some
of the teachings in the Gospel of Thomas, and he
also wanted us to awaken spiritually and to be more
more enlightened to be more awake spiritually as well.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Definitely, well, as we begin to wrap up here, definitely
tell the listeners where they can find you online, your
YouTube page, your website. I'm going to make sure for
my when I post this on YouTube, I'll make sure
I'll put some links down at the bottom before my
my other listeners. Could you tell them where they can

(59:44):
find you?

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Yeah, sure, right on my YouTube channels called essene Ebunite
Church of Christian Mysticism and others. A mouthful and uh,
for the purposes of what we're talking, I mean, I've
written a bunch of books, but you know, the look
that your listeners might be interested in is called Yeshua
the Anointed One pre Pauline Christianity, and that's on Amazon

(01:00:07):
and paperback and Kendle also, and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
It's seven seventy seven. I'm holding a copy in my
hand right now as in speak.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Thanks, thanks man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, and that's as that's about as cheap as you're
gonna find any I mean, like this got to my
door for seven seventy seven.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
That's like as cheap as you're gonna find.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
Yeah, I'm not trying to make I don't. I don't
make money off any of my book sales, that's for sure.
You know, my wife and I, uh, you know, we
have a pretty reasonably successful yoga school here and retreat center,
and so you know, that's how we support ourselves and
all that. I mean, we don't have a lavish lifestyle,
that's for sure. We try to live simply. That's another

(01:00:48):
tenet of all these different groups we're talking about, and
especially what Jesus thought was to have a very simple
lifestyle and all of that and voluntary simple living so called. Yeah,
so I'm definitely not trying to make any money off
of book sales. But yeah, folks want to buy that,
that's cool. It's got it. It's basically a commentary of
the Gospel of Thomas. I mean, there's there's other things

(01:01:11):
in it, other texts and stuff, but it's primarily my
commentary on on the Gospel of Thomas.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Yes, and that's other stuff and he too, right, is
it the Epistol of Games in here?

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Yeah, I got Q, the so called Q source, which
is just Jesus's sayings pulled out of Matthew and Luke.
And it's got the Gospel of Thomas, which also is
just a list of Jesus sayings. Uh, the Epistle of
James is in there, and the Dedica. The reason I
included those four texts is because those are the in
my mind, the foremost reliable, you know, first century early

(01:01:49):
Jewish Christians, so called texts that that really represent that original,
authentic spirit of Yeshia the Nazarene.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
So definitely, guys, go and check that out. Get you
a copy on Kindle, and also order you a physical
copy because it's good to have these physical copies these
days because with Kendle and the license and you never
know what can happen. So definitely get you a physical
copy as well. Is there anything else you wanted to
share or you think would be helpful to the listeners

(01:02:23):
out there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
In closing?

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
No, man, you know, there's two billion Christians on the planet,
and I feel like that's two billion people that could potentially,
you know, really wake up to a lot of these authentic,
original early teachings. And for me, a big part of

(01:02:51):
that is to have a vegetarian diet. I know a
lot of people, you know that sounds real preachy, or
you know, maybe they think I'm being real judge or
has nothing to do with that. I just really feel
like we need to move in that direction, and I
think it was part of your shows, message and teachings,
and so, you know, just take baby steps, you know,

(01:03:14):
like you don't have to do it overnight. I didn't
do it overnight. You know most people don't. So you
just take baby steps and you move in that direction,
and it'll really lessen the karmic impact that we have
on the animal kingdom and the karmic impact that we're
having on the planet as a whole.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Absolutely well, that is a wonderful message.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
I thank you so much for you know, gracing us
with your presence here and all of the wisdom that
you shared today. And I definitely I would love to
have you back on again at some point, So.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Thank you so much anytime, brother, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
See who will hip hop beat thirty years from now?
I guess I should keep studying my pears for now?
Should I make a dance and snap thumbs? Fast, high hats,

(01:04:19):
eight away back drums? Are we selling enough souls for
thirty three pieces to go? If it's lack of the soul,
how can it remain hold? We make music for a
strip of holes, but no music to think. That's the
short term money that we put in the bank. But
the dramas going backwards. I see devolution instead of evolution.
This is sole prostitution. The children are fumbling, even got

(01:04:40):
the elders and carriage and muffling. Watching them stumbling they
have today, it's so humbling. Meanwhile, our stock has been plummeted,
and they're telling me I need to sound like these
other niggas grown.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Ass men trying to sound like the younger niggas.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Used to have balance. Back in the days we had talent.
Trying to be original was the challenge. Now these niggas
sound the same king and all the beats sound the same,
the same king, the same trump and all that shit
sounded lane Johnny.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Niggas trying to sound like feature and a love rocking future.
But that's how it's a feature to think. You niggas
need a different producer.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Hope the bullshit crash your computer and it'll be cool
about being a loser.