Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello there, this is Jimmy Powers coming your way with
another story from the Tumult and the Shouting. Hi there,
(01:39):
this is Jimmy Powers ready to bring you in first
person another chapter from the Tumult and the Shouting. In
the last episode, I told you about the Dempsey Firpo fight.
Now I'd like to tell you about the first Dempsey
Tunny fight, which was held at the Municipal Stadium in
Philadelphia on September twenty third, nineteen twenty six. Fight camps
(02:06):
in those days were colorful, and they handled more daily
paining customers than the average television fights due today. Tunny
went into heavy training at Speculator, New York, about forty
miles west of Saratoga. His camp was pitched near a
small river amid gorgeous scenery. Lardner and I went up
for a visit. As we arrived, Jean was coming over
the brow of a hill with a fat book under
(02:27):
one arm. He could have passed for a young college
athlete studying for his Masters in English. Tunny was in
fine physical shape and looked wonderful. As for Dempsey banging
away behind closed doors, well, he didn't look nor move
like the Dempsey of the Firpo fight four years earlier. Wealth, opulence,
a bride, and revamped nose hadn't exactly brought Jack anything
(02:47):
approaching comfort. Besides, he was in a legal battle with
his old manager Kerns. I'd been fighting a cold all
that week, with hard deadlines and no sleep. The night
before the fight, McGee and I were headed back to
the Home hotel when one of us recalled a roulette
wheel less than two blocks from City Hall along about
two a m. I was twelve hundred dollars a head.
(03:08):
Mcgeon was eight hundred behind. Let's get out of here,
I said, and get some sleep. No, sir, replied mcgeon,
I'm going to get even. At five a m. We
had just enough between us for taxi fare to the hotel.
When I awakened about noon, I was still only forty
eight years old, but felt more like eighty eight. On
(03:29):
the sidewalk downstairs stood Tex Rickard with his famed malacca cane.
He was talking with Billy Gibson, Tunney's manager. The day
was foggy, and Rickard was worrying about rain and the
possibility of postponement. Suddenly, a writer came swinging through the door,
heard the latest text. He said, we just got word
that Tunny's flying into town for the way in flying
(03:50):
into what stammered Ricord, nearly swallowing his cigar, He's flying
in Jean's in the air now. Rickard turned to a
dumbfounded Gibson, who had left everything in readiness back at
Stroudsburg for Tunny to travel into town by automobile. That crazy,
bloody devil, exploded Rickard, whacking his cane on the pavement.
What's he trying to do to me? What's he trying
(04:13):
to do to you? Countered mcgeeon. What about himself? I
couldn't blame Rickard, but you see, this is what happened.
Casey Jones, the stunt flyer and instructor, had flown his
little biplane up to Stroudsburg and landed it on the
golf course the morning of the fight, just after Gibson
had left. Casey could smell out a promotion stunt quicker
than the next man. Jean had never been in a plane,
(04:35):
but Jones convinced him that it would be far easier
and quicker to fly down the Delaware River to Philly
than it would be to drive. To prove his point,
Casey agreed to take gin aloft for a five minute
trial spin. Tunny agreed, climbed aboard, and off they went
into the wild blue yonder. Once airborne, however, the golf
course and all surrounding country became obscured by a low ceiling.
(04:59):
Jones couldn't land, so he pointed his nose towards Philadelphia
and drilled into a fog bank. I could have reached
over that open cockpit and touched the Delaware water gap
with either hand, said Tunny later. It was that close.
It took us about an hour and twenty minutes to
cover eighty miles. I think we came by way of California,
with a crowd of one hundred and thirty five thousand,
(05:21):
contributing to the first two million dollar gait. Jeane Tunney,
a superbly cool and efficient boxer, marched out of his
corner at the opening bell and hit Dempsey the fighter,
with a high, hard right hand. That blow sealed Dempsey's doom.
It started a rain in the fourth round, and by
the tenth and final round it was a deluge. At
(05:42):
the end, Dempsey's face was a bloody, horribly beaten mask.
Blind by the final bell, Dempsey grabbed one of his
seconds and said, take me to him. I want to
shake his hand. Due to the rain, it was impossible
to use a typewriter. I dictated the description of the
fight to my wireman. With me that night were Lardner
and Benny Leonard, the lightweight champ from nineteen seventeen to
(06:03):
nineteen twenty five. Back at the hotel, a raging sore
throat and a hangover had me in bad shape. Take
a slug of bourbon and lie down, said Lardner. I'll
file your overnight, Leonard. A Dempsey man told Lardner that
he suspected the fix had been in for Tunny to win.
The story, appearing next day under my byline, blistered the
(06:24):
hide off. Both Tunny and Dempsey neither spoke to me
for several months. I couldn't blame them either, but I
couldn't open my mouth. The second Dempsey Tunny fight in Chicago,
exactly one year later, was pretty much a repetition of
the first, except for that long count. Tunny box beautifully
his straight left jab and combinations, jarring Dempsey but not
(06:47):
hurting him particularly. I was thinking of my overnight lead
in the seventh round when lo and behold, Dempsey landed
a right cross over Tunny's left lead. It landed like
a bomb on the left side of Tunny's jaw. The
lights in Tunny's mind flickered as a second right to
the jaw knocked Jean into the ropes. As Tunny came
off the ropes, clearly dazed, Jack caught him with a
(07:08):
short and crucifying left hook, then a right, a left,
and a right. Tunny went down on the canvas, his
left hand clutching the middle rope near one corner. In
the space of two seconds, Soldier Field became a bedlam.
As Tunny hit the deck. Referee Dave Barry signaled Dempsey
to that farthest neutral corner. How many seconds elapsed between
(07:30):
the time that Tunny fell and Dempsey reluctantly reached the
far corner, I'll never know. I do know that when
Barry started his count and reached seven, Tunny was on
one knee, listening attentively, and was up at nine. That
was Dempsey's last chance, the only round of the ten
I could score for him. Now this is Jimmy Powers again,
(07:52):
about to bring you a real treat. Jack the monassa
mauler Dempsey. Jack Dempsey Granny's book states that the first
time he laid eyes on you was at Toledo in
nineteen nineteen. Do you remember your first meeting with Granny,
I certainly do.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
That was the time we were out there to fight
Jess Willard for the title.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Did you feel that he felt that you were going
to win?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I don't think he really knew, and I thought
I knew, but I wasn't sure. I think he was
impressed with me because I liked myself, but at the
same time he thought maybe I was breaking a little
bit what I was going to do with this.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Big fellow Jack.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
One of Granny's all time rings side trails was your
fight with Furpole. Now he says that you fell on
top of Jack Lawrence. Did you he recall?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, I don't recall that because after the first fight, Jimmy,
I don't want that I was a fighter of foot race.
Matter of fact, I was out. I never remember being
out of the ring. But from all accounts, I must
have fell on this.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Typewriter and got the dents to prove it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
In capital letters, say Jack, how about Furpole?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Was he a good fighter?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'll tell you about Furpole. Jimmy Furpole was a good fighter.
It took a good I mean, not that I was
a great fighter, but it took a good punch of liquor.
Man like Furpole because he was a big fellow. He
was tough, and he was awkward, and he was a
very fast puncher, and if he hits you, it was
just too bad. And unfortunately I got hit that night.
I should never gotten hit, but I did. And if
you're fighting a puncher, you never know what's going to happen.
Anytime two punch is going to ring and every moon
(09:09):
who's going to come up first? And that's the type
of fighter Ferpro was. I wouldn't say he was a
good fighter, but it took a good punch of the liquim.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Did anybody ever hit you any harder than Urpo did?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I don't think so. I said hard enough because
I didn't know what I was doing all that first round.
I came to about I suppose about ten seconds was
starting with the second round, and I thought I'd been
knocked out. Current said, no, you just slipped. I hope
I don't slip again.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Jack Dempsey.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
According to Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book, your first pro
fight was with Kid Hancock and fifteen, and your final
one was in forty that's twenty five years later in Charlotte,
North Carolina with Elis Bush Shara.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's right, that's twenty five years that fight twenty five
long years.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
And how many fights would you say you've had that?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh, a couple of hundred. And that's what I say
about the fight game of age. I mean, these boys
don't have the experience in the background to know what
to do. I think the longer a fighter goes, the
better he gets. Of course, when the legs go bad,
you're you're finished. But I think experience means a great deal.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What did you get for your first fight.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think fifty cents Tommy.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And what did you get for the Tony fight, the
second one in Chicago?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The second fight in Chicago, I got about I think
eight hundred thousand. I'm not sure I got a million
dollars the first.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Fight, Jack Dempsey, what do you think could improve the
fighters today?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, I think one thing we need to me is
more experience to these fellows in small clubs where they
have an opportunity to get on top and know what
they're doing before they have to fight these ten fights
on the old days, we had the four Arm Days
out in San Francisco, and I think that the Great
Deal developed the fighters. In other words, they could set
their pace and keep it. Watching these fellows fight today,
they haven't had the background and the experience to keep
(10:42):
going and know what to do. So I think we
had a few more clubs would be a lot better
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Jack, I noticed that you're a darn good referee, and
you've refereed some very important fights. Do you think that
the people watching a fight really know how to referee it,
that is score it?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I don't think so. Of course, we all have
our personal opinion, and I don't say because I'm a
fighter that I should know anybody else. But I think
the proper way to judge a fight is three ways.
The man that doesn't damage, the man that finished the strongest,
and aggressor. That's the three most important thing that makes
a fight, and that's the way a fight should be judged.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, Jack, it's quite a thrill interviewing you. It's been
wonderful chinting with you over Granny's book. And I have
a hunch he was president at this little session in spirit.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
He's a wonderful man. I want to say he was
a great friend of mine. I ad marred him so much.
Now he's a man, was a great writer, and a
man who always told the truth and wrote what he thought.
And when a man does that I much admire. I mean,
we all make mistakes, but Granny, there was only one
and will never be another. Wonderful man and a wonderful family.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thank you very much, Jack Dampty. Well, that's it for today.
This is Jimmy Powers transcribed saying so long for now.
Hello there, this is Jimmy Powers coming your way with
another story from the Tumult and the Shouting. Hi there,
(01:39):
this is Jimmy Powers ready to bring you in first
person another chapter from the Tumult and the Shouting. In
the last episode, I told you about the Dempsey Firpo fight.
Now I'd like to tell you about the first Dempsey
Tunny fight, which was held at the Municipal Stadium in
Philadelphia on September twenty third, nineteen twenty six. Fight camps
(02:06):
in those days were colorful, and they handled more daily
paining customers than the average television fights due today. Tunny
went into heavy training at Speculator, New York, about forty
miles west of Saratoga. His camp was pitched near a
small river amid gorgeous scenery. Lardner and I went up
for a visit. As we arrived, Jean was coming over
the brow of a hill with a fat book under
(02:27):
one arm. He could have passed for a young college
athlete studying for his Masters in English. Tunny was in
fine physical shape and looked wonderful. As for Dempsey banging
away behind closed doors, well, he didn't look nor move
like the Dempsey of the Firpo fight four years earlier. Wealth, opulence,
a bride, and revamped nose hadn't exactly brought Jack anything
(02:47):
approaching comfort. Besides, he was in a legal battle with
his old manager Kerns. I'd been fighting a cold all
that week, with hard deadlines and no sleep. The night
before the fight, McGee and I were headed back to
the Home hotel when one of us recalled a roulette
wheel less than two blocks from City Hall along about
two a m. I was twelve hundred dollars a head.
(03:08):
Mcgeon was eight hundred behind. Let's get out of here,
I said, and get some sleep. No, sir, replied mcgeon,
I'm going to get even. At five a m. We
had just enough between us for taxi fare to the hotel.
When I awakened about noon, I was still only forty
eight years old, but felt more like eighty eight. On
(03:29):
the sidewalk downstairs stood Tex Rickard with his famed malacca cane.
He was talking with Billy Gibson, Tunney's manager. The day
was foggy, and Rickard was worrying about rain and the
possibility of postponement. Suddenly, a writer came swinging through the door,
heard the latest text. He said, we just got word
that Tunny's flying into town for the way in flying
(03:50):
into what stammered Ricord, nearly swallowing his cigar, He's flying
in Jean's in the air now. Rickard turned to a
dumbfounded Gibson, who had left everything in readiness back at
Stroudsburg for Tunny to travel into town by automobile. That crazy,
bloody devil, exploded Rickard, whacking his cane on the pavement.
What's he trying to do to me? What's he trying
(04:13):
to do to you? Countered mcgeeon. What about himself? I
couldn't blame Rickard, but you see, this is what happened.
Casey Jones, the stunt flyer and instructor, had flown his
little biplane up to Stroudsburg and landed it on the
golf course the morning of the fight, just after Gibson
had left. Casey could smell out a promotion stunt quicker
than the next man. Jean had never been in a plane,
(04:35):
but Jones convinced him that it would be far easier
and quicker to fly down the Delaware River to Philly
than it would be to drive. To prove his point,
Casey agreed to take gin aloft for a five minute
trial spin. Tunny agreed, climbed aboard, and off they went
into the wild blue yonder. Once airborne, however, the golf
course and all surrounding country became obscured by a low ceiling.
(04:59):
Jones couldn't land, so he pointed his nose towards Philadelphia
and drilled into a fog bank. I could have reached
over that open cockpit and touched the Delaware water gap
with either hand, said Tunny later. It was that close.
It took us about an hour and twenty minutes to
cover eighty miles. I think we came by way of California,
with a crowd of one hundred and thirty five thousand,
(05:21):
contributing to the first two million dollar gait. Jeane Tunney,
a superbly cool and efficient boxer, marched out of his
corner at the opening bell and hit Dempsey the fighter,
with a high, hard right hand. That blow sealed Dempsey's doom.
It started a rain in the fourth round, and by
the tenth and final round it was a deluge. At
(05:42):
the end, Dempsey's face was a bloody, horribly beaten mask.
Blind by the final bell, Dempsey grabbed one of his
seconds and said, take me to him. I want to
shake his hand. Due to the rain, it was impossible
to use a typewriter. I dictated the description of the
fight to my wireman. With me that night were Lardner
and Benny Leonard, the lightweight champ from nineteen seventeen to
(06:03):
nineteen twenty five. Back at the hotel, a raging sore
throat and a hangover had me in bad shape. Take
a slug of bourbon and lie down, said Lardner. I'll
file your overnight, Leonard. A Dempsey man told Lardner that
he suspected the fix had been in for Tunny to win.
The story, appearing next day under my byline, blistered the
(06:24):
hide off. Both Tunny and Dempsey neither spoke to me
for several months. I couldn't blame them either, but I
couldn't open my mouth. The second Dempsey Tunny fight in Chicago,
exactly one year later, was pretty much a repetition of
the first, except for that long count. Tunny box beautifully
his straight left jab and combinations, jarring Dempsey but not
(06:47):
hurting him particularly. I was thinking of my overnight lead
in the seventh round when lo and behold, Dempsey landed
a right cross over Tunny's left lead. It landed like
a bomb on the left side of Tunny's jaw. The
lights in Tunny's mind flickered as a second right to
the jaw knocked Jean into the ropes. As Tunny came
off the ropes, clearly dazed, Jack caught him with a
(07:08):
short and crucifying left hook, then a right, a left,
and a right. Tunny went down on the canvas, his
left hand clutching the middle rope near one corner. In
the space of two seconds, Soldier Field became a bedlam.
As Tunny hit the deck. Referee Dave Barry signaled Dempsey
to that farthest neutral corner. How many seconds elapsed between
(07:30):
the time that Tunny fell and Dempsey reluctantly reached the
far corner, I'll never know. I do know that when
Barry started his count and reached seven, Tunny was on
one knee, listening attentively, and was up at nine. That
was Dempsey's last chance, the only round of the ten
I could score for him. Now this is Jimmy Powers again,
(07:52):
about to bring you a real treat. Jack the monassa
mauler Dempsey. Jack Dempsey Granny's book states that the first
time he laid eyes on you was at Toledo in
nineteen nineteen. Do you remember your first meeting with Granny,
I certainly do.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
That was the time we were out there to fight
Jess Willard for the title.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Did you feel that he felt that you were going
to win?
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, I don't think he really knew, and I thought
I knew, but I wasn't sure. I think he was
impressed with me because I liked myself, but at the
same time he thought maybe I was breaking a little
bit what I was going to do with this.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Big fellow Jack.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
One of Granny's all time rings side trails was your
fight with Furpole. Now he says that you fell on
top of Jack Lawrence. Did you he recall?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, I don't recall that because after the first fight, Jimmy,
I don't want that I was a fighter of foot race.
Matter of fact, I was out. I never remember being
out of the ring. But from all accounts, I must
have fell on this.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Typewriter and got the dents to prove it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
In capital letters, say Jack, how about Furpole?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Was he a good fighter?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I'll tell you about Furpole. Jimmy Furpole was a good fighter.
It took a good I mean, not that I was
a great fighter, but it took a good punch of liquor.
Man like Furpole because he was a big fellow. He
was tough, and he was awkward, and he was a
very fast puncher, and if he hits you, it was
just too bad. And unfortunately I got hit that night.
I should never gotten hit, but I did. And if
you're fighting a puncher, you never know what's going to happen.
Anytime two punch is going to ring and every moon
(09:09):
who's going to come up first? And that's the type
of fighter Ferpro was. I wouldn't say he was a
good fighter, but it took a good punch of the liquim.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Did anybody ever hit you any harder than Urpo did?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I don't think so. I said hard enough because
I didn't know what I was doing all that first round.
I came to about I suppose about ten seconds was
starting with the second round, and I thought I'd been
knocked out. Current said, no, you just slipped. I hope
I don't slip again.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Jack Dempsey.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
According to Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book, your first pro
fight was with Kid Hancock and fifteen, and your final
one was in forty that's twenty five years later in Charlotte,
North Carolina with Elis Bush Shara.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's right, that's twenty five years that fight twenty five
long years.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
And how many fights would you say you've had that?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh, a couple of hundred. And that's what I say
about the fight game of age. I mean, these boys
don't have the experience in the background to know what
to do. I think the longer a fighter goes, the
better he gets. Of course, when the legs go bad,
you're you're finished. But I think experience means a great deal.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What did you get for your first fight.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think fifty cents Tommy.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And what did you get for the Tony fight, the
second one in Chicago?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The second fight in Chicago, I got about I think
eight hundred thousand. I'm not sure I got a million
dollars the first.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Fight, Jack Dempsey, what do you think could improve the
fighters today?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, I think one thing we need to me is
more experience to these fellows in small clubs where they
have an opportunity to get on top and know what
they're doing before they have to fight these ten fights
on the old days, we had the four Arm Days
out in San Francisco, and I think that the Great
Deal developed the fighters. In other words, they could set
their pace and keep it. Watching these fellows fight today,
they haven't had the background and the experience to keep
(10:42):
going and know what to do. So I think we
had a few more clubs would be a lot better
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Jack, I noticed that you're a darn good referee, and
you've refereed some very important fights. Do you think that
the people watching a fight really know how to referee it,
that is score it?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I don't think so. Of course, we all have
our personal opinion, and I don't say because I'm a
fighter that I should know anybody else. But I think
the proper way to judge a fight is three ways.
The man that doesn't damage, the man that finished the strongest,
and aggressor. That's the three most important thing that makes
a fight, and that's the way a fight should be judged.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, Jack, it's quite a thrill interviewing you. It's been
wonderful chinting with you over Granny's book. And I have
a hunch he was president at this little session in spirit.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
He's a wonderful man. I want to say he was
a great friend of mine. I ad marred him so much.
Now he's a man, was a great writer, and a
man who always told the truth and wrote what he thought.
And when a man does that I much admire. I mean,
we all make mistakes, but Granny, there was only one
and will never be another. Wonderful man and a wonderful family.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Thank you very much, Jack Dampty. Well, that's it for today.
This is Jimmy Powers transcribed saying so long for now.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.