January 22, 2024 • 35 mins
Susan Snow is a Realtor, Coach, Speaker, and Author. Susan is the daughter of slain Los Angeles Police Department Detective Thomas C Williams, who was killed in the line of duty on October 31, 1985, when she was 17 years old. The high-profile murder put her family in a spotlight no one asked for, traumatizing Susan and her family. After years of working through this trauma, sometimes more successful than others, Susan strives to help others. Susan's book, "The Other Side of the Gun" tells her story from anguish and upheaval to peace and understanding.
Website: http://susansnowspeaks.com/
Susan's book: "The Other Side of the Gun" tells her story from anguish and upheaval to peace and understanding.
Recommended book by Susan:
Am.... Affirmation Journal: Powerful Prompts to Program or Reprogram your Mindset by Karen Robinson
Coach Karen's Healing from Trauma Journal: For Holistic Healing by Karen Robinson
Connect with Susan:
http://facebook.com/susansnowspeaks
Instagram: susan_snow1
Join our supportive Facebook group community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthrivedream
Connect with me:
Gmail: healthrivedream@gmail.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthrivedream_
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/healthrivedream
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@traumarecoveryexpert
Twitter: https://twitter.com/healthrivedream
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenrobinson2022/
Website: https://www.healthrivedream.com/
Podcast: http://healthrivedreampodcast.com/abuse
Loved this episode? Leave us a comment below.
Website: http://susansnowspeaks.com/
Susan's book: "The Other Side of the Gun" tells her story from anguish and upheaval to peace and understanding.
Recommended book by Susan:
Am.... Affirmation Journal: Powerful Prompts to Program or Reprogram your Mindset by Karen Robinson
Coach Karen's Healing from Trauma Journal: For Holistic Healing by Karen Robinson
Connect with Susan:
http://facebook.com/susansnowspeaks
Instagram: susan_snow1
Join our supportive Facebook group community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/healthrivedream
Connect with me:
Gmail: healthrivedream@gmail.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthrivedream_
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/healthrivedream
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@traumarecoveryexpert
Twitter: https://twitter.com/healthrivedream
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenrobinson2022/
Website: https://www.healthrivedream.com/
Podcast: http://healthrivedreampodcast.com/abuse
Loved this episode? Leave us a comment below.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the Heel Thrived Dream Podcast, where trauma survivors become healthy thrivers.
Each month will feature a theme inthe trauma recovery and empowerment field to promote
your recovery, healing and learning howto build dreams. Here's your host,
Karen Robinson, transformational coach and therapist. Hello, Welcome to the Heel Thrived
(00:29):
Dream Podcast. Our guest today isSusan Snow. Susan is a realtor,
coach, speaker, and author.Susan is the daughter of slain Los Angeles
Police detective Thomas C. Williams,who was killed in the line of duty
(00:51):
October thirty first, nineteen eighty five, when she was seventeen years old.
The high profile murder put her familyin a spotlight no one asked for,
further traumatizing Susan and her family.After years of working through this trauma,
(01:11):
sometimes more successful than others, Susanstrives to help others. Thank you,
Susan for being here today. Thankyou for having me. Anything you'd like
to add to your bio. Iam a mother of three boys. I've
been married to the same man forthirty almost thirty one years, but we've
(01:34):
been together almost thirty eight years.So you mean married and remarried, right,
Yeah, married and remarried. See, now you know I read your
book. There is a little blipin the middle, little blip. Yeah.
Yeah, And that's so gracious ofyou to describe it that way.
I hope he appreciates you. Ohhe does immensely. Yeah A good Yeah,
(01:59):
I thank you. You guys probablyhave something special to stick it out
after all this time. And hewas with you from the beginning of your
trauma with losing your dad. SoI know you wrote about the story and
your book, and for the audience, I want to share that the name
of the book is the Other sideof the Gun in the cover. I
(02:24):
know people listening podcasts can't see it, but for YouTubers, nope, the
other side of the Gun. Therewe go. I highly recommend it,
and I told Susan I'm going tobe writing a review for her book,
so to know the full story,you'll please consider supporting her book. But
Susan, what are you wanting toshare today about your trauma? Well,
(02:50):
I think when you think about trauma, everybody has different trauma. You know,
there's different levels of trauma, buteverybody kind of goes. Lots of
people go through certain things. Ithink for me at seventeen, I was
put in a situation where I hadto kind of figure things out for myself.
(03:15):
But even if I was figuring thingsout for myself, my behavior was
still not healthy in the manner ofbecause I had to think about I just
have to get through this myself andnavigate all of the different emotions by myself.
(03:37):
Because when it happened, you knowmy mother, you know, she
was affected obviously, and because ithappened in front of my brother at six
years old, you know, allof the attention and so be it went
to him and me being seventeen,I kind of got pushed to the side.
(03:59):
So I had to rely on myself. And back then in nineteen eighty
five, there was no support forchildren, and there was no talk about
PTSD or any of that stuff backthen, so all of the emotions,
the anxiety, the depression, thesuicidal idation, all that stuff, I
(04:21):
had no idea how to navigate that, and so I just pushed through life.
But I felt crazy. I mean, that was the bottom line.
And I talked to a lot oftrauma survivors and they feel the same way,
they're like, I feel like I'mcrazy and there's no hope for me
(04:44):
because I just snapped and it's over, and you know what I mean,
It's like I'm broken and that's nevergoing to go away. And so in
my journey, you know, therewas a lot of ups and downs and
a lot of things that happened,but I didn't really get to the point
where I had direction and true healinguntil I was married with children, many
(05:11):
many years later. So the reasonwhy I wrote the book is I thought,
you know, I feel like ifpeople can learn through my experiences,
maybe it's almost like giving them awhat do you call that, you know,
with giving you a little bit ofinsight to a book. What was
the name of those cliff notes?So it's a little bit like cliff notes,
(05:34):
you know what I mean. Soand everybody, you know, there's
modalities out there, EMDR tapping,all these kind of things, and there's
no one size fits all either,you know, And I think a lot
of times in the in the medicalfield, they tend to take someone with
(05:58):
trauma and give them a one sizefits all kind of treatment. Yes,
So in my book, I thoughtit was really important to say here's the
things that I did that you cantry. But like I said, it's
not a one size fits all.I just had this conversation last night with
(06:19):
someone. It's not a one sizefits all for everybody. You have to
kind of figure out how you canmove through your pain and your trauma and
your loss in the most healthiest wayfor yourself. So I have a couple
(06:40):
questions, you know, I thinkthat's probably the most huh, Absolutely,
Yeah. So my first question thatI wanted to ask you, I think
the age of what happened to yourdad, the seventeen is such an interesting
age because you're almost an adult,right, and I'm wondering what that was
(07:03):
like being a child almost an adultduring that time. Do you think that
had any bearing on how people respondedto you, That they didn't give you
comfort as a child, treated youmore like an adult. But no matter
what age you were, you youalso, I think if I look back
(07:24):
on it, and even my husbandsays this, I think it had nothing
to do with me and everything todo with my brother. Yeah, because
my brother was actually there and witnessedmy dad's death and he was six,
So because he was a six yearold, I think all of you know,
(07:46):
everybody just kind of looked at himand supporting him because he was so
small. I don't think it hadanything to do with the fact that I
was an adult. In fact,I mean, people who just knew us
personally knew that I existed. Buteven the media took about two to three
(08:07):
days to even acknowledge that he hada seventeen year old daughter. So it
just took some time for people torealize that. And you know, and
yeah, that's not okay, ButI had no say, you know,
I was just trying to live life, survive exactly. My next question,
(08:33):
because I don't know, I'm justreally curious about this. I have no
idea how you'll respond to this.Do you think it made it worse that
your your father's murder was planned.It feels a little worse for me,
by I don't know how you'll respondto that. It was, it definitely
was, And you know, Ithink it's not a life that I would
(08:56):
wish on anyone. I mean,I had a normal, you know,
a normal life before this happened,and then all of a sudden, it
was like something out of the movies, you know, And and so I
went from this normal teenage life towhen because it was planned and because everybody
(09:20):
knew the behind the scenes, youknow, the police department kind of knew
that there was a chance he couldcome after us, the family. Yeah,
so it was so hard to read. Yeah, yeah, and you
know, and all of that didn'tcome out until the trials, where I
learned all the details of how longthey planned this and how much hatred the
(09:46):
guy who actually killed my father hadfor my father because he was in law
enforcement, and I yeah, Imean, it was just when all of
those things started coming up, thatwas another traumatizing thing for me because then
all of a sudden, I alreadyfelt like I was unsafe. But then
(10:11):
once they caught them and there wasmultiple defendants, I had a little sense
of safety because I knew that theywere behind bars. But when all the
things came out in the trial,I realized, oh my gosh, I
was not safe. For months,I was not safe, and you know,
(10:33):
and I just felt this sense ofviolation again, like I was,
I just had that And so Imean when that started, when that happened
during the trial, it was like, Okay, now I'm looking behind my
back all the time because I'm wonderingif any of his other people are out
there. You know, it ismy life in danger. Still. Time
(11:00):
went on that you know, kindof went away, but it's just a
it was just another trauma stacked ontothe original trauma that I got that I
had. Yeah, I'll share withyou that my my brother's retired now,
but he was a police detective.And so as I was reading your story,
(11:22):
I tried momentarily to put my brotherin the story. And all the
pla like even like the stories aboutthe police presence around your home, like
it's excessive, right, it's somany people, and then all the police
that would line up the roads andthe highways and the presence of the funeral.
(11:43):
I couldn't even I couldn't even putmy brother there. I was like,
my mind was like, nope,this is not safe. This doesn't
feel I don't know how, youknow. And to lose a parent this
way and then feeling like you're ondisplay for the media, like you couldn't
have privacy to you had to bevery well. You tried, you tried
(12:07):
to be pretty stoic, and myheart hurt for that seventeen year old you.
And I also appreciated the story thatyou told about another girl who lost
her parent to gun violence and howyou went to the funeral to kind of
support her. I thought that wasbeautiful. Oh yeah, so that was
(12:28):
the detective here in Aurora, Colorado. I think that was a part of
my healing as well. You know, I just felt because all my friends
and everybody was like, Oh,don't do that to yourself, don't go.
But you know, I think ahigher power was like, oh no,
this is a part of your healingand you have to face it.
(12:50):
And I faced it by myself fora reason, because I wanted to see
I wanted to see how strong Iwas. It was almost like I was
challenging myself to get through it,you know, and in it experience again.
(13:11):
But at the same time, Iwas there in the mindset of I
am supporting this young lady that Idon't know, but she's a teenager and
her dad was the same age asmine when he died, and so it
was really important for me. Theconnection was there in some cosmic way,
(13:35):
but I was for me, itwas like, Okay, I have got
to do this, and I havegot to do this for her, and
even though she doesn't know me,and she'll never meet me. I have
to do this for her, butI also have to do this for my
(13:56):
seventeen year old self. It waspretty powerful to read, and clearly you
are very strong, very strong.Yeah, thank you, it's taken along.
Yes, Another thing that I foundstriking is you mentioned mass shooting especially.
(14:18):
I think it was calibine that youtalked about and how very triggering that
was for you. Now, unfortunately, as you know, there's shootings in
our country. You know, massshootings is is a pretty high statistic.
Do you respond the same way everytime you hear about a shooting or has
(14:41):
that because there's so many exposure overtime impacted how you feel? Oh,
I have some strong feelings about it. I feel like we just can't we're
not learning, and it's there's afrustration, we're just not learning, and
it's blamed for one thing or another. And you know, I don't get
into the political arena, but there'smultiple reasons why this is happening, and
(15:07):
nobody is willing to step in andsay it needs to stop, and here
are the things that we need tolook at. You know, it's just
not happening. And so I thinkevery time there was one yesterday, Yeah,
in Texas, and you know,and I have friends in Texas,
and I reached out to every singleone of them and made sure that they
were safe and you know, toldthem that I was thinking about them.
(15:30):
And you know, of course theyturn it around on me and they're like
wait, wait, wait, waitwait. But you know, it does
have an effect in the fact thatI immediately have empathy for the families and
their lives are totally different. Buteven the people around the people that experienced
(15:54):
it, that were there at thatmall yesterday, you know what I mean,
it's more of like more people arehurting. And that's the sad part,
you know, That's the sad partis that those people now have PTSD,
you know, and and it's andyou know, and so I mean
(16:15):
with Columbine, I didn't even knowI had PTSD. It just didn't even
register for me because I was conditionedto think that PTSD was only for the
military people going to war. Andso when my therapy, when I did
have my breakdown at Columbine, andI had all of the flashbacks and all
(16:38):
the things that happened, and thatwas the first time that had happened to
me, and my therapist looked atme in the face and said, you
have PTSD. That was the firsttime that ever I ever heard that.
So at that point I was like, oh, you mean regular people can
have PTSD. You know, itwas just a different conditioning of my brain.
(17:03):
But at the same time, itgave me hope because I knew now
I knew what was going on withme. Yeah, you can treat it.
Now I can treat it, andnow I can you know, And
I hear people talk about, oh, well you can get rid of PTSD.
No, you can't. PTSD issomething that lives with you forever.
The problem. The difference is isthat if you have the modalities to help
(17:30):
you work through the different symptoms ofit, because it does branch off into
different disorders. You know, youhave anxiety and depression and you know,
all the kind of the bipolar disorder, like all the things that can happen.
As long as you're dealing with themwith a professional and finding the modalities
that work for you, you canmanage it. But it's not going to
(17:51):
go away. So when I hearpeople talk about, oh, PTSD can
go away, it just makes mecringe because I'm like, stop putting that
information out because it's destructive. Yeah, it's destructive and false. Yeah.
So you can treat symptoms, yeah, just like if you have certain types
(18:11):
of diabetes, like type one,you can treat symptoms, but right you
have it, you can cure typetwo with appetite, sorry, with nutrition
and exercise, right, but noteverything has a cure. What we do
is we treat symptoms, help peoplefeel better, you have a better quality
(18:33):
of life. But that also goesback to, you know, the mental
health industry and how they put peoplein like a box of labeling. Yeah,
this is what you are or thisis what you have or whatever.
But at the same time, it'slike it's like I said, it's not
a one size fits all. Youcan't you can't give one pill out and
(18:56):
think that it's going to cure everyone. And I see that a lot,
and I hear that a lot frompeople who were like, oh, they
put me on this pill because Isaid this, And I'm like, you
said this, and they just putyou on this pill. They didn't really
(19:17):
dive in and look at your physiologyand take into consideration because everybody's body is
different too. So yeah, Imean that's the thing that you know,
when it comes to like mental illnessand things like that. That that gets
under my skin too, because it'snot a one size fits all. And
(19:42):
I mean, as you know frommy book, you know, my first
therapist told me I was a wellrounded young lady. I know that's true.
I know that's true. But thatwas fine. Yeah, I was
gonna be fine for the rest ofmy life. And I was a hot
mess as you read like I wasnot healthy. I was not you know,
(20:07):
I was still suicidal. It's like, huh and you know all the
time, yeah, all the time. Yeah. And I think a lot
of it is because, you know, if you don't know the questions to
ask your therapist, especially at seventeen, well how would you know, You
don't know what to ask to divein and really like start dealing with your
(20:30):
pain. So you're just relying onthe adult, you know, relying on
the professional to know what they're doing. And you know once that didn't end
well for me. Do you knowwhy a lot of therapists don't ask the
right questions? I think maybe theymight be afraid that's exactly why. Yeah.
(20:56):
I think fear has a lot todo with it, which is,
you know, when I was thinkingabout what my book means. I really
my tagline is bulldozed through your fear, because you can't get healthy unless you
face your trauma and you face yourpain that's attached to it. But as
(21:17):
human beings, we don't want torun towards pain. We want to stay
in pleasure land. And I thinktherapists are the same way. You know,
you get to a point where youknow someone is starting to dive and
you feel like, oh my gosh, how am I going to pull them
out of this? I can seewhere that would come into play, because
even writing my book, there weredays where I dove and I dove and
(21:40):
I dove, and I thought,oh, oh am I going to be
able to pull myself out of this? And yeah, thank god I did.
I mean, you know, Ijust I stuck a purpose on the
other side of it. So anytimeI felt like I was getting out of
like it was too much for me, I just kept thinking about all the
people out there that I could helpby doing what I was doing. You
(22:03):
know, it's finding purpose on theother side. Yeah, yeah, I
mean, you know, you knewexactly why. And so I love my
profession. I love and feel thata lot of therapists are doing great work,
but it drives me batshit crazy whentherapists aren't trauma competent. I don't
mean trauma informed, I mean traumacompetent. Trauma is the main reason why
(22:30):
there's mental illness or addictions like traumais that the baseline of most issues.
Yep. And so if you're atherapist listening to this, please please work
on that. Take courses, getin groups. And if you're still fearing
(22:51):
or not feeling like you can dothis, then maybe it's a time to
change roles. There's lots of otherthings that you can do in our profession.
I've also seen therapists who are oncall in the er and they're afraid
to talk about suicide. Yes,like, are you kidding me? Don't
you have myself? Yes, youhave to know how to talk to people
(23:12):
about this. Yes, it's hard. I know what helped me is I
used to supervise our work, andso I lived in the er. And
so the more attempts you see,the more you ask questions, the more
safety planning and recommendations you make.Of course, it does get easier if
there's such a thing, but dowhat you need to do to be more
(23:36):
competent in trauma and also suicide.It's just so important to be effective in
therapy and I think your book showsthat very well. Thank you. I
feel like, yeah, I definitelyfeel like there's still that stigma around suicide
and mental illness. And it's reallyinteresting because when I have conversations around with
(24:03):
even past friends when they've read mybook and they're like, I had no
idea that you were going through thatstuff, and you were the happiest,
smiliest person I knew, and whatI always felt like, you were so
positive, And I said, andthose are the people that are hurting inside
(24:26):
and you can't take that for granted, you know, you can't. And
how many people, how many timesdo we see celebrities who have been these
positive, happy, funny people andthey take their lives because you just don't
know what they're internalizing. And alot of times those people will put out
(24:48):
the funny and the happiness because it'strying to They're trying to change their own
perception inside themselves. So you know, I've even taught my kids. I
mean, my kids have dealt withsuicidal ideation. And you know, I
had one night where I stayed withmy kid all night. I slept on
(25:11):
the floor and it made him mad. But I'm like, I don't trust
you. I don't trust you,and I'm going to stay here and if
you need someone to talk to,I'm right here. I just want you
to know we don't even have totalk. I will just stay here with
you, laying on the floor,whatever you need, whatever you need.
(25:33):
And now that's a parent people whatto do. Sometimes, Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I didn't try to likeparent him. I didn't try to.
You know. I hear a lotfrom other kids that have dealt with
that where their parents are like,don't be stupid, you know, don't
that's so dumb, and that's soselfish, and that's so this and that
(25:53):
right, and it's hurtful to thembecause they are hurting and they just want
to be heard. And that's thebottom line. People just want to be
heard. And right now, it'syou know, there's so many people out
there that are screaming to be heardand they're not being heard. I agree
with you one thousand percent. Soand that was why I wrote the book,
(26:15):
because I wasn't heard. I wasn'theard, and I for the first
time in my life. I waslike, it's my time now to tell
my story, to tell my truthand get it out there. And it
was scary. That was the vulnerabilityto you know, you read it,
(26:36):
you know it is out there,it is raw, it is vulnerable,
right. But I felt like,if I can be this way, other
people will be this way. I'mgiving them a safety net to be able
to be vulnerable in their own storywith their own things. So and I
(26:56):
think that's that it's important for people'shealing as well. I agree. I
want to pivot for a minute.If you indulge me. If you don't
want to, that's okay, toofine. So I want to respect your
what you said about not being inthe politics of gun violence. I'm wondering
(27:19):
how you managed that, where gunviolence in the NRA are such hot topics.
Are you willing to say a littlemore about your opinions on that.
Well, you know, I manyyears ago I went up against the NRA
with my mother, and my motheractually lobbied A few years later, after
(27:42):
my dad was killed, she lobbiedand was able to get semi automatic weapons
banned in the state of California.So we've been very much in the past.
She doesn't do anything now, butback then, you know she did.
And we both went up against theNRA and trying to explain to them
(28:04):
that, you know, I personally, if you want to have a gun
in your home to protect your kid, your you know, your family or
whatever, that's fine. It isa second Amend Amendment. Right. However,
in my when I think about it, the founding fathers were not talking
(28:26):
about AK forty seven's and AR fifteen's. They were talking about muskets, So
huge difference in the type of weaponthat they were discussing when they did drop
the Second Amendment. Right, Somy argument is always like, are you
(28:52):
gonna hunt with an AR fifteen becausethere won't be anything left of the animal.
Those type of weabs bins were madefor killing, and they were made
for killing multiple people, multiple things, not just one. And so you
(29:12):
know, I dive into it alittle bit, but I don't really get
too much into it, just becauseit's been a frustration since nineteen eighty five
and we don't seem to be learning. Nobody wants to listen from, you
know, the NRA side, they'rejust stuck in what their beliefs are and
(29:40):
making money and making money is thebottom line. I mean, they yeah,
and so it's all about money andand so it's it's it's frustrating,
definitely frustrating, but they're I mean, the only way that the country is
going to come to some sort ofplan around gun control is if people are
(30:07):
willing to sit at the table andhave very difficult discussions. And I'm just
not sure that we're in a placefor that to happen. And I hope
that one day, I mean,I really hope that one day that that
(30:29):
can happen, But I've been toldthat I'm overly optimistic, So well,
we have to have If we don'thave hope, what do we have?
Right Exactly, I'm hopeful, youknow, And that's that's I do stick
(30:49):
to that. But I really feellike my thing is, you know,
I feel like there's a lot ofthings in our constitution that needs to be
tweaked for today's society and today's issuesthat they didn't have way back then,
and they need agree and I thinkwe need to amend the Constitution for the
(31:14):
times and the things that are goingon around us right now. And nobody's
willing to do that either. Sobut I think I found it, and
I think listeners who have been involvedor impact is probably the better word by
gun violence. I think it's it'simportant to talk about. So I really
(31:38):
appreciate you sharing your opinions. Iknow it's if we if we're honest,
it looks like the problem is gettingworse and not better. I know there's
legislation that has changed in some partsof the country that has gotten a little
better. But I can appreciate,if you're a victim or survivor of gun
violence, how incredibly exhausting this fightwould be, and for people to weave
(32:02):
in and out of it and maybepass on the torch to the next person,
just because it's survival. It's it'sexhausting to be on a fight day
in and day out and not seethe progress. Absolutely, I just wanted
to say I just wanted to saythat. Okay, so we are pressing
on time, So I want tostart by wrapping up. I want you
(32:25):
to think about for anybody that's listeningtoday and is really hurting, like if
you have words of wisdom and encouragementfor them, and or just sharing a
little bit more of what was themost effective pieces of your healing journey.
So I just had a conversation witha woman that just lost her husband a
(32:47):
suicide. And here's what I toldher, because she is it was eight
months ago, she's hurting really badright now, and nighttime is the hardest
because as you rest, your brainjust takes over. So what I told
her, and what the modality thathelped me in the very beginning was journaling.
(33:10):
Journaling is a powerful tool and everyonecan do it, getting everything out
of your brain and onto paper,and you know, so I feel like
that is a first step to yourhealing, you know. And I want
(33:31):
to caution everybody, like talking backabout therapist, make sure that when you
are in therapy, that you havewe have an innate sense of who we're
comfortable with. So if you don'tfeel comfortable with your therapist, find a
(33:51):
different one until you do. Andyou know, remember it's not one size
fits all. So whatever you're goingthrough is different from someone else's trauma or
someone else's modalities or whatever you knowthey're doing to heal. You have to
(34:12):
figure out what it is for youthat gives you peace. So if that's
you know, if that's meditation,affirmations are very powerful first thing in the
morning especially and at night. I'veactually taught my brother that he does affirmations
in the morning and he does affirmationsbefore he goes to bed. Does that
(34:37):
mean he's recovery? Sorry, heis a recovery. Oh, my brother.
And my brother is doing fantastic.He's he's he's doing the work as
we say, and he's doing great. So super proud of him. I
call him my Hercules. But yeah, you know, it's just those things
that you know, people, Iwish I would have known. I wish
(35:00):
someone would have been able to tellme, you know, these are the
things that could be helpful to quietyour brain and you know, until you're
able to be in front of yourtherapist and be able to work through your
pain and your trauma and loss.Well, I think that was very well
(35:21):
said Susan. I really appreciate thatyou're here today to share your story with
our audience. So thank you forbeing here, Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it. Thank you forlistening in today. Please join us
next week, same day and time. Also, I would love for you
to check out my website heel thrivedreamdot com.
Welcome to the Heel Thrived Dream Podcast, where trauma survivors become healthy thrivers.
Each month will feature a theme inthe trauma recovery and empowerment field to promote
your recovery, healing and learning howto build dreams. Here's your host,
Karen Robinson, transformational coach and therapist. Hello, Welcome to the Heel Thrived
(00:29):
Dream Podcast. Our guest today isSusan Snow. Susan is a realtor,
coach, speaker, and author.Susan is the daughter of slain Los Angeles
Police detective Thomas C. Williams,who was killed in the line of duty
(00:51):
October thirty first, nineteen eighty five, when she was seventeen years old.
The high profile murder put her familyin a spotlight no one asked for,
further traumatizing Susan and her family.After years of working through this trauma,
(01:11):
sometimes more successful than others, Susanstrives to help others. Thank you,
Susan for being here today. Thankyou for having me. Anything you'd like
to add to your bio. Iam a mother of three boys. I've
been married to the same man forthirty almost thirty one years, but we've
(01:34):
been together almost thirty eight years.So you mean married and remarried, right,
Yeah, married and remarried. See, now you know I read your
book. There is a little blipin the middle, little blip. Yeah.
Yeah, And that's so gracious ofyou to describe it that way.
I hope he appreciates you. Ohhe does immensely. Yeah A good Yeah,
(01:59):
I thank you. You guys probablyhave something special to stick it out
after all this time. And hewas with you from the beginning of your
trauma with losing your dad. SoI know you wrote about the story and
your book, and for the audience, I want to share that the name
of the book is the Other sideof the Gun in the cover. I
(02:24):
know people listening podcasts can't see it, but for YouTubers, nope, the
other side of the Gun. Therewe go. I highly recommend it,
and I told Susan I'm going tobe writing a review for her book,
so to know the full story,you'll please consider supporting her book. But
Susan, what are you wanting toshare today about your trauma? Well,
(02:50):
I think when you think about trauma, everybody has different trauma. You know,
there's different levels of trauma, buteverybody kind of goes. Lots of
people go through certain things. Ithink for me at seventeen, I was
put in a situation where I hadto kind of figure things out for myself.
(03:15):
But even if I was figuring thingsout for myself, my behavior was
still not healthy in the manner ofbecause I had to think about I just
have to get through this myself andnavigate all of the different emotions by myself.
(03:37):
Because when it happened, you knowmy mother, you know, she
was affected obviously, and because ithappened in front of my brother at six
years old, you know, allof the attention and so be it went
to him and me being seventeen,I kind of got pushed to the side.
(03:59):
So I had to rely on myself. And back then in nineteen eighty
five, there was no support forchildren, and there was no talk about
PTSD or any of that stuff backthen, so all of the emotions,
the anxiety, the depression, thesuicidal idation, all that stuff, I
(04:21):
had no idea how to navigate that, and so I just pushed through life.
But I felt crazy. I mean, that was the bottom line.
And I talked to a lot oftrauma survivors and they feel the same way,
they're like, I feel like I'mcrazy and there's no hope for me
(04:44):
because I just snapped and it's over, and you know what I mean,
It's like I'm broken and that's nevergoing to go away. And so in
my journey, you know, therewas a lot of ups and downs and
a lot of things that happened,but I didn't really get to the point
where I had direction and true healinguntil I was married with children, many
(05:11):
many years later. So the reasonwhy I wrote the book is I thought,
you know, I feel like ifpeople can learn through my experiences,
maybe it's almost like giving them awhat do you call that, you know,
with giving you a little bit ofinsight to a book. What was
the name of those cliff notes?So it's a little bit like cliff notes,
(05:34):
you know what I mean. Soand everybody, you know, there's
modalities out there, EMDR tapping,all these kind of things, and there's
no one size fits all either,you know, And I think a lot
of times in the in the medicalfield, they tend to take someone with
(05:58):
trauma and give them a one sizefits all kind of treatment. Yes,
So in my book, I thoughtit was really important to say here's the
things that I did that you cantry. But like I said, it's
not a one size fits all.I just had this conversation last night with
(06:19):
someone. It's not a one sizefits all for everybody. You have to
kind of figure out how you canmove through your pain and your trauma and
your loss in the most healthiest wayfor yourself. So I have a couple
(06:40):
questions, you know, I thinkthat's probably the most huh, Absolutely,
Yeah. So my first question thatI wanted to ask you, I think
the age of what happened to yourdad, the seventeen is such an interesting
age because you're almost an adult,right, and I'm wondering what that was
(07:03):
like being a child almost an adultduring that time. Do you think that
had any bearing on how people respondedto you, That they didn't give you
comfort as a child, treated youmore like an adult. But no matter
what age you were, you youalso, I think if I look back
(07:24):
on it, and even my husbandsays this, I think it had nothing
to do with me and everything todo with my brother. Yeah, because
my brother was actually there and witnessedmy dad's death and he was six,
So because he was a six yearold, I think all of you know,
(07:46):
everybody just kind of looked at himand supporting him because he was so
small. I don't think it hadanything to do with the fact that I
was an adult. In fact,I mean, people who just knew us
personally knew that I existed. Buteven the media took about two to three
(08:07):
days to even acknowledge that he hada seventeen year old daughter. So it
just took some time for people torealize that. And you know, and
yeah, that's not okay, ButI had no say, you know,
I was just trying to live life, survive exactly. My next question,
(08:33):
because I don't know, I'm justreally curious about this. I have no
idea how you'll respond to this.Do you think it made it worse that
your your father's murder was planned.It feels a little worse for me,
by I don't know how you'll respondto that. It was, it definitely
was, And you know, Ithink it's not a life that I would
(08:56):
wish on anyone. I mean,I had a normal, you know,
a normal life before this happened,and then all of a sudden, it
was like something out of the movies, you know, And and so I
went from this normal teenage life towhen because it was planned and because everybody
(09:20):
knew the behind the scenes, youknow, the police department kind of knew
that there was a chance he couldcome after us, the family. Yeah,
so it was so hard to read. Yeah, yeah, and you
know, and all of that didn'tcome out until the trials, where I
learned all the details of how longthey planned this and how much hatred the
(09:46):
guy who actually killed my father hadfor my father because he was in law
enforcement, and I yeah, Imean, it was just when all of
those things started coming up, thatwas another traumatizing thing for me because then
all of a sudden, I alreadyfelt like I was unsafe. But then
(10:11):
once they caught them and there wasmultiple defendants, I had a little sense
of safety because I knew that theywere behind bars. But when all the
things came out in the trial,I realized, oh my gosh, I
was not safe. For months,I was not safe, and you know,
(10:33):
and I just felt this sense ofviolation again, like I was,
I just had that And so Imean when that started, when that happened
during the trial, it was like, Okay, now I'm looking behind my
back all the time because I'm wonderingif any of his other people are out
there. You know, it ismy life in danger. Still. Time
(11:00):
went on that you know, kindof went away, but it's just a
it was just another trauma stacked ontothe original trauma that I got that I
had. Yeah, I'll share withyou that my my brother's retired now,
but he was a police detective.And so as I was reading your story,
(11:22):
I tried momentarily to put my brotherin the story. And all the
pla like even like the stories aboutthe police presence around your home, like
it's excessive, right, it's somany people, and then all the police
that would line up the roads andthe highways and the presence of the funeral.
(11:43):
I couldn't even I couldn't even putmy brother there. I was like,
my mind was like, nope,this is not safe. This doesn't
feel I don't know how, youknow. And to lose a parent this
way and then feeling like you're ondisplay for the media, like you couldn't
have privacy to you had to bevery well. You tried, you tried
(12:07):
to be pretty stoic, and myheart hurt for that seventeen year old you.
And I also appreciated the story thatyou told about another girl who lost
her parent to gun violence and howyou went to the funeral to kind of
support her. I thought that wasbeautiful. Oh yeah, so that was
(12:28):
the detective here in Aurora, Colorado. I think that was a part of
my healing as well. You know, I just felt because all my friends
and everybody was like, Oh,don't do that to yourself, don't go.
But you know, I think ahigher power was like, oh no,
this is a part of your healingand you have to face it.
(12:50):
And I faced it by myself fora reason, because I wanted to see
I wanted to see how strong Iwas. It was almost like I was
challenging myself to get through it,you know, and in it experience again.
(13:11):
But at the same time, Iwas there in the mindset of I
am supporting this young lady that Idon't know, but she's a teenager and
her dad was the same age asmine when he died, and so it
was really important for me. Theconnection was there in some cosmic way,
(13:35):
but I was for me, itwas like, Okay, I have got
to do this, and I havegot to do this for her, and
even though she doesn't know me,and she'll never meet me. I have
to do this for her, butI also have to do this for my
(13:56):
seventeen year old self. It waspretty powerful to read, and clearly you
are very strong, very strong.Yeah, thank you, it's taken along.
Yes, Another thing that I foundstriking is you mentioned mass shooting especially.
(14:18):
I think it was calibine that youtalked about and how very triggering that
was for you. Now, unfortunately, as you know, there's shootings in
our country. You know, massshootings is is a pretty high statistic.
Do you respond the same way everytime you hear about a shooting or has
(14:41):
that because there's so many exposure overtime impacted how you feel? Oh,
I have some strong feelings about it. I feel like we just can't we're
not learning, and it's there's afrustration, we're just not learning, and
it's blamed for one thing or another. And you know, I don't get
into the political arena, but there'smultiple reasons why this is happening, and
(15:07):
nobody is willing to step in andsay it needs to stop, and here
are the things that we need tolook at. You know, it's just
not happening. And so I thinkevery time there was one yesterday, Yeah,
in Texas, and you know,and I have friends in Texas,
and I reached out to every singleone of them and made sure that they
were safe and you know, toldthem that I was thinking about them.
(15:30):
And you know, of course theyturn it around on me and they're like
wait, wait, wait, waitwait. But you know, it does
have an effect in the fact thatI immediately have empathy for the families and
their lives are totally different. Buteven the people around the people that experienced
(15:54):
it, that were there at thatmall yesterday, you know what I mean,
it's more of like more people arehurting. And that's the sad part,
you know, That's the sad partis that those people now have PTSD,
you know, and and it's andyou know, and so I mean
(16:15):
with Columbine, I didn't even knowI had PTSD. It just didn't even
register for me because I was conditionedto think that PTSD was only for the
military people going to war. Andso when my therapy, when I did
have my breakdown at Columbine, andI had all of the flashbacks and all
(16:38):
the things that happened, and thatwas the first time that had happened to
me, and my therapist looked atme in the face and said, you
have PTSD. That was the firsttime that ever I ever heard that.
So at that point I was like, oh, you mean regular people can
have PTSD. You know, itwas just a different conditioning of my brain.
(17:03):
But at the same time, itgave me hope because I knew now
I knew what was going on withme. Yeah, you can treat it.
Now I can treat it, andnow I can you know, And
I hear people talk about, oh, well you can get rid of PTSD.
No, you can't. PTSD issomething that lives with you forever.
The problem. The difference is isthat if you have the modalities to help
(17:30):
you work through the different symptoms ofit, because it does branch off into
different disorders. You know, youhave anxiety and depression and you know,
all the kind of the bipolar disorder, like all the things that can happen.
As long as you're dealing with themwith a professional and finding the modalities
that work for you, you canmanage it. But it's not going to
(17:51):
go away. So when I hearpeople talk about, oh, PTSD can
go away, it just makes mecringe because I'm like, stop putting that
information out because it's destructive. Yeah, it's destructive and false. Yeah.
So you can treat symptoms, yeah, just like if you have certain types
(18:11):
of diabetes, like type one,you can treat symptoms, but right you
have it, you can cure typetwo with appetite, sorry, with nutrition
and exercise, right, but noteverything has a cure. What we do
is we treat symptoms, help peoplefeel better, you have a better quality
(18:33):
of life. But that also goesback to, you know, the mental
health industry and how they put peoplein like a box of labeling. Yeah,
this is what you are or thisis what you have or whatever.
But at the same time, it'slike it's like I said, it's not
a one size fits all. Youcan't you can't give one pill out and
(18:56):
think that it's going to cure everyone. And I see that a lot,
and I hear that a lot frompeople who were like, oh, they
put me on this pill because Isaid this, And I'm like, you
said this, and they just putyou on this pill. They didn't really
(19:17):
dive in and look at your physiologyand take into consideration because everybody's body is
different too. So yeah, Imean that's the thing that you know,
when it comes to like mental illnessand things like that. That that gets
under my skin too, because it'snot a one size fits all. And
(19:42):
I mean, as you know frommy book, you know, my first
therapist told me I was a wellrounded young lady. I know that's true.
I know that's true. But thatwas fine. Yeah, I was
gonna be fine for the rest ofmy life. And I was a hot
mess as you read like I wasnot healthy. I was not you know,
(20:07):
I was still suicidal. It's like, huh and you know all the
time, yeah, all the time. Yeah. And I think a lot
of it is because, you know, if you don't know the questions to
ask your therapist, especially at seventeen, well how would you know, You
don't know what to ask to divein and really like start dealing with your
(20:30):
pain. So you're just relying onthe adult, you know, relying on
the professional to know what they're doing. And you know once that didn't end
well for me. Do you knowwhy a lot of therapists don't ask the
right questions? I think maybe theymight be afraid that's exactly why. Yeah.
(20:56):
I think fear has a lot todo with it, which is,
you know, when I was thinkingabout what my book means. I really
my tagline is bulldozed through your fear, because you can't get healthy unless you
face your trauma and you face yourpain that's attached to it. But as
(21:17):
human beings, we don't want torun towards pain. We want to stay
in pleasure land. And I thinktherapists are the same way. You know,
you get to a point where youknow someone is starting to dive and
you feel like, oh my gosh, how am I going to pull them
out of this? I can seewhere that would come into play, because
even writing my book, there weredays where I dove and I dove and
(21:40):
I dove, and I thought,oh, oh am I going to be
able to pull myself out of this? And yeah, thank god I did.
I mean, you know, Ijust I stuck a purpose on the
other side of it. So anytimeI felt like I was getting out of
like it was too much for me, I just kept thinking about all the
people out there that I could helpby doing what I was doing. You
(22:03):
know, it's finding purpose on theother side. Yeah, yeah, I
mean, you know, you knewexactly why. And so I love my
profession. I love and feel thata lot of therapists are doing great work,
but it drives me batshit crazy whentherapists aren't trauma competent. I don't
mean trauma informed, I mean traumacompetent. Trauma is the main reason why
(22:30):
there's mental illness or addictions like traumais that the baseline of most issues.
Yep. And so if you're atherapist listening to this, please please work
on that. Take courses, getin groups. And if you're still fearing
(22:51):
or not feeling like you can dothis, then maybe it's a time to
change roles. There's lots of otherthings that you can do in our profession.
I've also seen therapists who are oncall in the er and they're afraid
to talk about suicide. Yes,like, are you kidding me? Don't
you have myself? Yes, youhave to know how to talk to people
(23:12):
about this. Yes, it's hard. I know what helped me is I
used to supervise our work, andso I lived in the er. And
so the more attempts you see,the more you ask questions, the more
safety planning and recommendations you make.Of course, it does get easier if
there's such a thing, but dowhat you need to do to be more
(23:36):
competent in trauma and also suicide.It's just so important to be effective in
therapy and I think your book showsthat very well. Thank you. I
feel like, yeah, I definitelyfeel like there's still that stigma around suicide
and mental illness. And it's reallyinteresting because when I have conversations around with
(24:03):
even past friends when they've read mybook and they're like, I had no
idea that you were going through thatstuff, and you were the happiest,
smiliest person I knew, and whatI always felt like, you were so
positive, And I said, andthose are the people that are hurting inside
(24:26):
and you can't take that for granted, you know, you can't. And
how many people, how many timesdo we see celebrities who have been these
positive, happy, funny people andthey take their lives because you just don't
know what they're internalizing. And alot of times those people will put out
(24:48):
the funny and the happiness because it'strying to They're trying to change their own
perception inside themselves. So you know, I've even taught my kids. I
mean, my kids have dealt withsuicidal ideation. And you know, I
had one night where I stayed withmy kid all night. I slept on
(25:11):
the floor and it made him mad. But I'm like, I don't trust
you. I don't trust you,and I'm going to stay here and if
you need someone to talk to,I'm right here. I just want you
to know we don't even have totalk. I will just stay here with
you, laying on the floor,whatever you need, whatever you need.
(25:33):
And now that's a parent people whatto do. Sometimes, Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I didn't try to likeparent him. I didn't try to.
You know. I hear a lotfrom other kids that have dealt with
that where their parents are like,don't be stupid, you know, don't
that's so dumb, and that's soselfish, and that's so this and that
(25:53):
right, and it's hurtful to thembecause they are hurting and they just want
to be heard. And that's thebottom line. People just want to be
heard. And right now, it'syou know, there's so many people out
there that are screaming to be heardand they're not being heard. I agree
with you one thousand percent. Soand that was why I wrote the book,
(26:15):
because I wasn't heard. I wasn'theard, and I for the first
time in my life. I waslike, it's my time now to tell
my story, to tell my truthand get it out there. And it
was scary. That was the vulnerabilityto you know, you read it,
(26:36):
you know it is out there,it is raw, it is vulnerable,
right. But I felt like,if I can be this way, other
people will be this way. I'mgiving them a safety net to be able
to be vulnerable in their own storywith their own things. So and I
(26:56):
think that's that it's important for people'shealing as well. I agree. I
want to pivot for a minute.If you indulge me. If you don't
want to, that's okay, toofine. So I want to respect your
what you said about not being inthe politics of gun violence. I'm wondering
(27:19):
how you managed that, where gunviolence in the NRA are such hot topics.
Are you willing to say a littlemore about your opinions on that.
Well, you know, I manyyears ago I went up against the NRA
with my mother, and my motheractually lobbied A few years later, after
(27:42):
my dad was killed, she lobbiedand was able to get semi automatic weapons
banned in the state of California.So we've been very much in the past.
She doesn't do anything now, butback then, you know she did.
And we both went up against theNRA and trying to explain to them
(28:04):
that, you know, I personally, if you want to have a gun
in your home to protect your kid, your you know, your family or
whatever, that's fine. It isa second Amend Amendment. Right. However,
in my when I think about it, the founding fathers were not talking
(28:26):
about AK forty seven's and AR fifteen's. They were talking about muskets, So
huge difference in the type of weaponthat they were discussing when they did drop
the Second Amendment. Right, Somy argument is always like, are you
(28:52):
gonna hunt with an AR fifteen becausethere won't be anything left of the animal.
Those type of weabs bins were madefor killing, and they were made
for killing multiple people, multiple things, not just one. And so you
(29:12):
know, I dive into it alittle bit, but I don't really get
too much into it, just becauseit's been a frustration since nineteen eighty five
and we don't seem to be learning. Nobody wants to listen from, you
know, the NRA side, they'rejust stuck in what their beliefs are and
(29:40):
making money and making money is thebottom line. I mean, they yeah,
and so it's all about money andand so it's it's it's frustrating,
definitely frustrating, but they're I mean, the only way that the country is
going to come to some sort ofplan around gun control is if people are
(30:07):
willing to sit at the table andhave very difficult discussions. And I'm just
not sure that we're in a placefor that to happen. And I hope
that one day, I mean,I really hope that one day that that
(30:29):
can happen, But I've been toldthat I'm overly optimistic, So well,
we have to have If we don'thave hope, what do we have?
Right Exactly, I'm hopeful, youknow, And that's that's I do stick
(30:49):
to that. But I really feellike my thing is, you know,
I feel like there's a lot ofthings in our constitution that needs to be
tweaked for today's society and today's issuesthat they didn't have way back then,
and they need agree and I thinkwe need to amend the Constitution for the
(31:14):
times and the things that are goingon around us right now. And nobody's
willing to do that either. Sobut I think I found it, and
I think listeners who have been involvedor impact is probably the better word by
gun violence. I think it's it'simportant to talk about. So I really
(31:38):
appreciate you sharing your opinions. Iknow it's if we if we're honest,
it looks like the problem is gettingworse and not better. I know there's
legislation that has changed in some partsof the country that has gotten a little
better. But I can appreciate,if you're a victim or survivor of gun
violence, how incredibly exhausting this fightwould be, and for people to weave
(32:02):
in and out of it and maybepass on the torch to the next person,
just because it's survival. It's it'sexhausting to be on a fight day
in and day out and not seethe progress. Absolutely, I just wanted
to say I just wanted to saythat. Okay, so we are pressing
on time, So I want tostart by wrapping up. I want you
(32:25):
to think about for anybody that's listeningtoday and is really hurting, like if
you have words of wisdom and encouragementfor them, and or just sharing a
little bit more of what was themost effective pieces of your healing journey.
So I just had a conversation witha woman that just lost her husband a
(32:47):
suicide. And here's what I toldher, because she is it was eight
months ago, she's hurting really badright now, and nighttime is the hardest
because as you rest, your brainjust takes over. So what I told
her, and what the modality thathelped me in the very beginning was journaling.
(33:10):
Journaling is a powerful tool and everyonecan do it, getting everything out
of your brain and onto paper,and you know, so I feel like
that is a first step to yourhealing, you know. And I want
(33:31):
to caution everybody, like talking backabout therapist, make sure that when you
are in therapy, that you havewe have an innate sense of who we're
comfortable with. So if you don'tfeel comfortable with your therapist, find a
(33:51):
different one until you do. Andyou know, remember it's not one size
fits all. So whatever you're goingthrough is different from someone else's trauma or
someone else's modalities or whatever you knowthey're doing to heal. You have to
(34:12):
figure out what it is for youthat gives you peace. So if that's
you know, if that's meditation,affirmations are very powerful first thing in the
morning especially and at night. I'veactually taught my brother that he does affirmations
in the morning and he does affirmationsbefore he goes to bed. Does that
(34:37):
mean he's recovery? Sorry, heis a recovery. Oh, my brother.
And my brother is doing fantastic.He's he's he's doing the work as
we say, and he's doing great. So super proud of him. I
call him my Hercules. But yeah, you know, it's just those things
that you know, people, Iwish I would have known. I wish
(35:00):
someone would have been able to tellme, you know, these are the
things that could be helpful to quietyour brain and you know, until you're
able to be in front of yourtherapist and be able to work through your
pain and your trauma and loss.Well, I think that was very well
(35:21):
said Susan. I really appreciate thatyou're here today to share your story with
our audience. So thank you forbeing here, Thank you for having me.
I appreciate it. Thank you forlistening in today. Please join us
next week, same day and time. Also, I would love for you
to check out my website heel thrivedreamdot com.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.