Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hi, I'm Caitlin Russell. Welcome to The Healing Like Podcast.
I am a psychic intuitive who's been reading tarot cards
for over twenty five years. I'm also Reiki certified. Join
me as I read cards, share intuitive messages, promote healing,
and much much more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hi, everyone, it's hitting from the Healing Light Podcast to
call as well. Before I get to stay topics with
a wonderful guest, I just wanted to remind everyone that
you can find my podcast, The Healing Like Podcast, on
the Speaker app which is a free app, or anywhere
you on your podcast. If you have any feedbacks for
(01:25):
the show a guest you'd like to hear from any topics,
please feel free. I am on Facebook under the Healing
Light and H.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
You can also email.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Me at the Healing Light one at the Healing Light
Number one.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
At gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So my social media, you can find me our Instagram
at the Healing Light and H kind them on TikTok
same deal. I don't do action, while you'll find me
on Facebook a hopefully Facebook Instagram. So thank you very
much to Paranormal Book Radio and Roche for fifting with
(02:10):
recording tonight. So I'm very excited to have Elizabeth on.
So Elizabeth Tip, it's going to share her journey through
her chronic pain, and we're going to talk about what
chroduct pain means and how we navigate that and how
we can actually feel.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I love her. I love her book, The Way.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Through Chronic Pain, Tools to Reclaim Your Healing Power, and.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Uh, we'll get right to it. So, Elizabeth, thank you
for being on the Healing Like Podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (02:47):
I'm good. I'm honored to be able to talk to
you today and to address your audience and to share
your podcast with my audience.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
This is great. We get to we get to cross
polemate with each other.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Love Yeah, I love it too. So before I get
to your book, which is it was amazing read, very easy,
had a lot of points and I took a lot
of notes for myself too. I wanted to ask you
in terms of.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Chronic pain, what is chronic pain? How does that what
is that.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Different from a pain that you might get, like if
you stub your toe or something like that, And how does.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
It affect our lives?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And we'll talk about methods to overcome it in a bit,
but like how big of an impact does it have?
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Okay, those are three questions that I'll start with the
first one and we can spend the whole hour on that,
but we won't chronic pain just for the audience. Is
any pain that's about fifteen days out of thirty for
three months? Are more physical? Mental, emotional, spiritual, financial? It's
(04:06):
all It all sends the same signal to the brain.
It hurts, so the brain can tell the difference between
a broken bone and a broken heart. It's all the
same pain, right, So that's our working definition. Most people
think it's just physical, but it's so much more right
(04:27):
the nervous system, the brain sees it as so much more.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
So.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Kind of what's the difference between stubbing your toe and
chronic pain. We have a mechanism in the nervous system
the brain called the stress response, and it activates when
we're we need to fight, flight free, shut down those
kinds of things, and it comes on and as soon
(04:58):
as we've taken care of whatever the problem was, it
goes off again.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
It resets down to normal.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
In chronic pain, that stress response stays in the on
position and doesn't come back to normal. And we're not
made really for that. We're not made for kin our
nervous system, our biology is not made for chronic pain,
for chronic stress. We're made for this on off kind
(05:26):
of situation, not for when it gets stuck in the
on position. So understanding that chronic stress chronic pain are
similar in the brain in terms of the stress on
the nervous system, the other part of it is that
the in chronic pain, there's already in regular healthy humans,
(05:50):
there's a there's a slight negative bias. So we're where.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
For the threat just kind of in the background.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
We're a kind of our first answer is no to
something new, something unfamiliar, Our first answer is no. And
then uh, just kind of from a very primal place
to keep us safe. And then are. Then we can
bring it to the pre frontal cortext and we can
we can sort out, you know, is this is this
new thing, isn't going to be safe or not right?
(06:27):
And we can decide yes or no, But the first
answer is always no, which is referencing the back, older,
ancient part of the brain and uh in the chronic
pain experience, because the stress response is in the on
(06:48):
position all the time, that negativity gets fired up and magnified,
so we become our our whole kind of demeanor changes
where we see the world in a more threatening way,
(07:08):
like you're a threat.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Everything out there is a threat, and.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
We'll also turn that in on ourselves and now I'm
a threat to myself.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
So it's this.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
We're really not made for this kind of a situation.
And you can see how damaging that is that it's
so stressful.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
On the body.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
We're really not made for those kinds of stressors long term.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
You know, it's you know, it's an interesting way to
put it because when you say we're not made for it,
because I mean for me, for myself, I didn't know
of what chronic pain was until I had chronic pain,
and to me, it seems like a fairly you're right,
like a fairly new concept. And what also just kind
(07:57):
of give me the light bulb moment, is it's not
a physical pain, it's mental pain. It's any kind of
it's any kind of pain, really, and so I, yeah,
that makes a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So let me let me dive in Cuba.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
It's any kind of pain that lasts for fifteen days
out of thirty for three months or more.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Oh, yeah, that's good, that's good to know.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Yeah, it's like any pain. There's like there's pain, and
then there's there's a cute pain which comes and goes
like I stubbed my toe, and then there's chronic pain.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Any pain that's felt fifteen.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Days out of thirty for three months or more, that's chronic.
And when it gets to the chronic point, the brain
is changed by that. And the ways that the brain
has changed is this this pronounced negativity in the mind,
in our attitude, the emotional center in the brain gets
(08:55):
gets affected, and so we have this negative spin. We
turn it towards others, we turn it towards ourselves, and
and and also there's a lot of chaos that is
created in the brain. So we have to we can't
think straight. But we're so reactive. We're up in this
activated mode all the time, and you have real difficulty
(09:17):
accessing executive thinking when you're fired up all the time.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
It's it's kind of contrary to the way we're wired.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, absolutely, so that absolutely I hope it said resonates
with me. I didn't you know when you think about
what I would think about my pain, or really I
have a friend who has I know a few people
by finishes.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
You don't think that it entrints itself on the brain.
You just I didn't make that connection.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And the way you explained it, it totally makes sense
because I.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Know some experience.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
It's that when when I'm in.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Pain, my whole well gets fuzzy. I can't concentrate it
in effects had to toee. So that's that makes sense,
That makes sense. Play it that way. So it's trying
pain and it's literally like effects your brain.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
So well, think.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
About it for a moment. Think about it for a moment.
The brain is this highly adaptable organ.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
It's just it's just amazingly.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
It's just quite an interesting, fascinating, powerful, you know, machining
human machine. It's constantly adapting to its environment. So if
a chronic pain signals coming in, it's going to adapt
to that it and it adapts the best that it
(10:54):
can given the way it's made. And because we're really
not evolutionarily speaking, we're really not made for chronic stress.
We're made for stress and then calm down stress and
then calm down kind of thing. We're like, but we're
not made for distress to be in the on position.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
And so.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Because the brain's constantly adapting to current circumstances, we call
that plastic it changes all the time. Well, chronic pain
will change the brain, and the way we heal from
that is we heal the changes that are made in
the brain, and medication doesn't do that.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
We actually have to make behavioral changes.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
We have to kind of change our environment and change
how we're thinking in order to change the brain to
affect change back in the brain.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
So the brain is really.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
A reflection of kind of what's happening in our environment
and what we're making it mean. And so that's a
perspective that's very helpful.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Absolutely, So we talk about you knowing, one of the
first things to sit out and is right in the
beginning of the book is the healing field, and you
said there's a promise of the.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Healing field, So what is what is the healing field
and what did that mean for us?
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Well, I love that you brought that in right after
what we just talked about. Again, the brain is this
highly adaptable machine, and we have a unless we're actually dying,
which you know most of us will have that experience
at some point, but most of us are not right,
(12:43):
So we have this incredible healing machine, uh intelligence in
the body, and so we were we want to realize
that and we want to understand that when does healing happen,
(13:06):
It happens in the now, just like the brain is
assessing what's happening now and it adapts to that circumstance
very quickly. So we have to take responsibility for the
now and what we're bringing to the now because that's
where healing happens. Healing doesn't happen in the past or
(13:27):
the future. It happens now. And one of the issues
that we have in the chronic pain experience is that
we lose track of the present moment because we're constantly
comparing our current experience to the past and then and
then projecting about what's going to happen to us in
the future, and we kind of miss what's happening in.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
The present moment because we're time tripping and we miss
the present, which is where the healing is.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
That to me is one of the multi profound things
I've ever heard, because you know, I know that that
makes so much sense about we think that, Okay, this
is happened in the past, so it's bound.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
To happen in the future.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So which brings me to something else that kind of
stood out that was kind of like a batch a
moment or aha moment for me, is you talk about
being who is responsible for your healings, so you will
think about when you have pain. Upon a pain, you
(14:35):
think that you're relying on your doctors, your orthathetic doctor,
your find doctor, whatever doctor.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
But you say it actually has to spin with you,
isn't Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Well, it's both.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
It's just a matter of what's the proportion there. So
I love that you brought that in. It's so important.
I remember my experience of chronic pain for most of
the forty years I was in it was it's doing
it to me and I didn't feel like I had
any power over it.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
It was just and I so I fought with it
all the time. It's like I'll fight. I don't look
good at that.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
And thank goodness I had that in my you know,
in that in my genetics that I can be that,
you know, tough. But with my God, we really don't
have to do that. I just didn't know any better.
But when I got with in the pay management program
with doctor Peter Prescott, who since we're here, who wrote
this beautiful book Conquer Chronic Pain and Innovative My Body Approach,
(15:42):
which is a beautiful companion to my book. When I
got into his pain management program, he asked this question,
he said, what are you doing to contribute to your pain?
And I was, you know, brand new in his classroom
and there's there's twenty other people in the room that
(16:02):
are also in chronic pain. And my response, in my mind,
I didn't say anything, but in my mind was like,
I can't believe he just asked a whole rootful of
chronic pain patients what are they doing to.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Contribute to them? What the hell kind of question is that?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, get out of here.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Paint is doing it to me. And you know, like,
who are you know.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
What's the deal here? And that was the first my
trigger response to that question. But you know, he was
the doctor in the room, and I, you know, was
they're open and you know, hoping to learn something I
didn't know. And I realized in that moment, oh my god,
(16:45):
it's possible that, like I'm actually doing something to contribute
to my own pain. Just by asking that question, he's
opening this door to the possibility that maybe something I'm
doing is contributing to the pain I'm experiencing. And in
that moment, I went from complete victimhood to my pain
to empowerment, feeling like I actually have you know, some
(17:10):
power here where I was I had any right that
was really powerful. So so yeah, that's where that the
scene to that got started, was in that that little
moment where he brought that in and I and I
realized after I sat there for a minute, he said.
(17:33):
The next thing he said, which was equally as powerful,
was don't judge the moment. And I thought, to my
just again, you know, total chronic pain, victimy mode. The
thing that went through my mind was, dude, I'm just
sitting here, minding my own business, you know, trying to
like figure out my space in this place. I didn't
(17:55):
know anybody in the room, you know, minding my own business.
I'm not doing I'm not doing anything, you know. He's like,
I just didn't think I was doing anything, and.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I didn't think I was judging anything at all.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
And then all of a sudden, I realized, you know,
this is all going through my mind. At about three seconds,
then I realized, oh my goodness, I've been judging my
pain as bad my whole life. You know, I've been
judging my pain as bad all my life. And so
(18:43):
when I'm having a pain experience, my attitude is I
have to fight with this thing because it's bad. And
so he's saying, don't judge the moment, and I'm judging
my pain.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
He meant my pain by the moment. He meant the pain.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
I mean, because my first experience was like, I'm not
judging anything. I'm just sitting here listening to you. But
he meant my pain, and I was like, oh my goodness, no,
wonder that's how I know. That was the beginning of
me understanding that's how I'm contributing to my pain by
just labeling it as a bad experience. Where pain is actually,
you know, when you come to it from a straight
(19:20):
up clinical kind of you know, biological system, and I
have a biology background, biological system approach. It's just information
in the system. It doesn't it's not good or bad.
It just is and it's information. And the question is
what are you going to do with the information? Well,
I had spent all those years, you know, calling it
(19:41):
bad and.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Fighting with it. That's what I was doing with.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
The information, where really it's just the body giving me
a signal that you need to do something different. I, like.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I said, power. There's one of the big things that
I think people don't realize is when you have pain,
when you have a lot of you know, mental health issues,
whatever issues you might have, you might feel powerless, feel
completely submissive, whatever's going on.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
And I want to be like your biggest cheerleader and say, yeah,
but you can do that. You can you can.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I always say you can take back your power. So
you feel like you lost your power, you can take
back your power. So when you say that you're responsible
or your healing, mean what that means hearing you right?
That you you can take back control and take that power.
(20:48):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (20:51):
I think we have to be a little bit For me,
I'd have to careful about what I meant by those words.
But when I when I and I'll put it in
the context of what we're talking about. When I feel
like that I'm the victim of the pain and it's
doing it to me, OK, then I've lost any power.
(21:13):
I have no purchase in that landscape. I've got no grounding.
I'm just at it's whim or what doctor Prescott brought
in was like, well, you know you have a role
in this. You know your reaction to the pain alone
of that, right, that's that's just adding to the to
the fire, you know. So the question is can I
(21:41):
and be careful here because it's it's it's not it's
a it's a kind of a very difficult to teach this.
I can kind of speak about it and people can try.
I can try and create an opening so people can
have an experience of it.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
It's very hard to I feel like it's hard to teach.
So I'm having an.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Experience of a lot of sensation in the Body's just
take the pain word out of it and and call
it a lot of an intense sensation, And it's a
signal from the body saying like, whatever you're doing right now,
you know, do something different because you know we're in
healing mode and you know if you keep doing this,
(22:22):
you're going to be moving in a in a more
destructive direction. So so the idea there is to not
fight the pain, and that that's I just said something
very profound. Don't fight the pain when are when are
our first really instinct is to fight it for many
(22:44):
reasons that I could get into that later, but our
first instinct is really just like we don't like it,
and we're going to get an attitude and I'm going
to fight it. So I discovered after I went through
doctor Peter's program I had and I learned all his
tools and everything. I had a chance to practice him.
(23:07):
I came home and I got a I woke up
one morning and.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
I had a.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I had a headache and something like a muscle in
my neck had gone, you know, spasms or something.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
I had this massive headache.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
And I kind of went from a sleep and everything
was fine to awaken like there's a ten alarm fire
going off my head. And I had enough space in
my consciousness to kind of watch my reaction and this.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Is what I did.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Oh my god, I'm in pain. First of all, it's
a freak out. First thing, freaked out. Second thing, Oh,
I remember when I had this before because it was
familiar to me. Thirteen I did was I got to
see my chiropractor to get my neck back together. And
and and you know, wow, what happened there? Right. The
(24:06):
first thing was I experienced a sensation. I had a
judgment about it. Oh my god, I'm freaking out. So
I judged it as bad, which is my old habit.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
We all do it.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
And then the next thing I did was I referenced
the past and I got out of the present moment.
I went immediately to the past and compared it and
freaked out again. So I just added more pain into
the whole situation. I just added more negative pain into it.
And then I disempowered myself by saying I got to
(24:43):
go see a doctor to help me with this, thinking like,
I have no power here.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
It's got me right.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
So I went into this old habit and I happened
to see myself do that, and I realized, wow, you know,
I'm just freaking myself out here. And I just have
pulled muscle and im and so I I kind of
laughed at myself and and was grateful that I had
the tools, the first of awareness, and second that I
(25:10):
had done this time tripping thing and that and that, and.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That I had some power in this space.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
It was prior to that, before I went into Peter's program,
I didn't think I had any power in the in
the pain space. Well I do. And so I stopped
and I blongely breathing, and you know what, I stopped
fighting with the pain. I just allowed the pain to
be what it was, thinking it's information in the system,
the systems trying to process it. Get the mind out
(25:39):
of the way, breathe right, And I did that, and
you know what happened.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
That pain was gone in five minutes.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Oh yeah. So I can so relate to that because.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
You know, if you think about it, you think about it,
you know exactly the.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Way it happens.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And so when you are experiencing pain, your mindset change.
All we talk about, well, if someone has a pain,
what can they they do?
Speaker 6 (26:23):
Yes, love, that's that's a perfect question. After what we
just talked about. So there's a hierarchy to healing. There's
an actual hierarchy first the nervous system. Then we want
a sense of some kind of connection to ourselves, to
another person, to higher power, some kind of connection.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Then we can learn, Then we can reason. But if I'm.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Freaked out, I actually don't have access to my pre
puntal cortex for the reasoning part of the brain.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
I'm just in the back.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Brain freaking out, fight flight shut down, one of.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Those free So the first thing I have to do
is notice, I'm just regulated, I'm activated.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
My nervous system's upset, I'm in sympathetic, and that's kind
of what the state of the nervous system is at
that point. And my job there is to breathe because
the breath, the mind follows the breath, and the nervous
system takes its cue from what the breast's doing, which
(27:29):
I think is a really powerful teaching and tool because
when I have a sharp pain and I do that,
what am I doing? I'm holding my breath, right, That's
what we do in the and so we're telling the
nervous system it's in fight flight protect mode, where you
can't protect and connect at the same time. And the
(27:53):
second run on the hierarchy of healing is connection. So
the first thing you have to do is let the
breath out, is use the breath as a tool to
let the nervous system know that it's actually safe and
it's not under threat and it doesn't need to protect.
And it might take three minutes of long deep breathing
(28:13):
or just left nostril, long deep breathing through the left nostril,
just nice, calm, long deep breath with that exhale as
long or longer than the inhale, and then you'll feel
the nervous systems start to calm, and then you'll feel
then you're back connected, and you're not. Because what I
(28:35):
do when I get like that all activated, I tend.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
To just like dissociate.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
I'm just like I try and get out of my
body as fast as possible. That's my old habit. I'm
just like, I don't want to be here and I food.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
So as soon as.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
I bring in the breath and the nervous system starts
to calm, then I reconnect to myself. I might reach
out to another person and coregulate we help each other,
or I'm just maybe you send a prayer out to
my higher power kind of thing. But I'm connected to
me and I'm connected to you know something, you know,
(29:11):
a friend, the creator of all that is something like that.
Then I can what happened, what's just happened? Then I
can reason with like what was that? You know that
pain or whatever? What caused that? You know? So so
understanding that there's a hierarchy to healing. First regulate, then
(29:33):
connect sense of belonging, and then you can reason your
way through.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
That. That that's a helpful understanding.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Yeah right, great, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I know when I've had my struggles, I mean the
secret of I thinks that have happened to me. I
remember what a therapist said to me about focus.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
On your breathing.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
There's something called there's all different ways to focus on
your breathing. There's fox breathing. There's the four for four
methods where you inhale, where you're smelling the roses ex
sale and you're in yale before selling the Roses X sale,
you're blowing out the birthday candles and I haven't reached
this point yet. You're supposed to blow it up four minutes.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Or something like that.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
Wow, that's the long exhale, long exhale.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
But so the whole goal is just you know similar
is that you when you're in the moment, you realize
you're in the moment and then you start you step
away to focus on your breathing. And you know what
I really want to like about how this whole topic
is you're not only helping people with their healing journey,
(30:52):
you know process, but you've also experienced it too. So
one just quickly touch base on your experience and what
your you know, what happened to you. I think people
would be would totally get that.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
What happened to me was the pains, my tame situation.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah. Yeah, like can you talk about can you talk
about here you were and you were when you were
when you have experience with your pain because you talk
about having things happened when you were a lot younger. M.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Yeah, so I had. I had. I had a history
really of chronic pain, right uh, starting with my childhood
and and I didn't know what to call it, and
nobody taught me how to breathe.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
But I learned to live with it.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
And so that when I really actually hurt myself because
I actually broke a vert brain in my back in
my low back when I was fourteen, when I at
that point, I was so used to kind of a
fairly high level of pain, like all the time that
I walked away from that accident. It hurt, but I
(32:19):
walked away from the accident. And because I walked away,
even though I was in pain, I was physically able
to walk, and I figured I was okay.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I had a broken fifth love bar that I didn't.
I didn't I would.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
I'll just give you an example of how much of
a kind of a background chronic pain situation I had
by the time that accident happened.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
I just didn't even realize I hurt.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
That it wasn't.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
It wasn't like, you know, I know, I remember going
home from going home from that accident and I'm walking
in and I told my dad, I, you know, I
fell up my horse that day and.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Kind of hurt my back and we never had.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
An X ray because I was so I was so
disaffective emotionally, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
I didn't that I.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Really hurt myself.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I was not. That was just not in my world.
It wasn't safe to emote and really express myself.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
It just wasn't safe. So I didn't.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
And I'm really too bad because nobody caught the he
didn't catch the uh, the danger there and I and
I walked around with a broken vertebra for fourteen years
before it had surgery. And then I had surgery, and
then then the pain got crazy bad because then the
(33:46):
opiates and the benzodiazepines started, and it was just the
surgery just anyway it was. It was a mess. The
doctors didn't know. They knew that chronic pain was a thing,
but they didn't know how to treat it, and they
didn't really understand what's happening in the brain.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
They just they just didn't have that understanding. So they
gave me.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Opiates and any anxiety medicine to cope with them, and said,
you have to learn to live with this for the
rest of your life. You're going to be in level
seven out of ten, page twenty four to seven for
the rest of your life in a wheelchair when you're forty.
Learned and live with it. And I was like shocked,
(34:34):
It's like, this is my life. But I had a
science background and that was my saving grace. I really
I felt and I knew that scientific paradigms shifted, and
I knew that the doctors were operating in a scientific paradigm,
and they shift. And I also understood from that statement,
(34:58):
because I was trained as a basic science researcher, I
knew from that statement, you will be. I knew that
they'd forgotten their basic science because science is not about facts,
it's about probabilities. So they were That was a mistake
when they said that. Many of them said it. That
(35:19):
was a mistake they made. They should have said you
the probability is. They didn't say that. They said you will,
so they didn't leave any room for hope. And this
is why I come on these podcasts again and again
and again to bring this message because that's a dishonest statement.
It's just a it's a misunderstanding of the of the territory.
(35:42):
And and you have to leave the window open for hope.
You can't be so, you can't be so sure of
yourself that you know everything. And then and sit in
front of a patient to say that. That's why I say,
it's a misunderstanding. They made a mistake, So you see
so and and and finally, and I and I kept,
(36:05):
I kept, and I and I knew that that was happening,
and I knew I was going to have to look
outside of the scientific paradigm, the current understanding. I knew
I was going to have to look outside of that
to find my answer or or have something else with it.
And when I found doctor Peter Prescott many years later,
(36:26):
he was trained as a Western doctor, but he also
had Eastern training, so he was a cheekang healer, and
he understood I got into like all kinds of yoga
and meditate. I was already doing meditation, and I got
into a massage therapy in chigang and reggie and and
acupuncture and lots of other things that kind of looking around.
But Peter put it all together in his program where
(36:50):
he brought in Eastern and Western and and and some
and some cognitive behavioral therapy, and he really understood the
nature of kind of pain and schools right went right
in there. And and I mean, like I said that
question that he asked, what are you doing to uh
to contribute to your pain?
Speaker 5 (37:10):
That he that was his, That was his that was
his lead, that his leaden.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
And he had me, you know, because I realized that
I might have some power here where. Prior to that,
I didn't think I had any power at all.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Ye wow, Wow, it's amazing. You know, al well, time
to wrap it up, and I feel like it that
you and I could probably have a conversation for like
two hours five minutes. There are a lot of I
really like if talk about what pain is and living
(37:45):
in the moment and you know, what are you doing
for your pain and power? And then you also talk
about your experience, so you you known you have empathy
for those who are suffering from chronic pain, and you
also uh help breathing and things that people people can
(38:09):
do as you're John, I'm probably mispronouncing. There a yoga
gratitude journal. I saw their meditation. These are all things
that I have also started doing.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
It's kind of new in the process lives.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Lives get so busy and what goes on that I
think that people can kind of forget that you can
take some moments, those uh you know, those moments where
you can participate in activity that are going to definitely
help you.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
So, do you have any final words about chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Anyone who's suffering maybe feels that the situation.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Is h Yeah, I get that question a lot because
this is a space where we were definitely touching the helplessness.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
So that you have to ask for help.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
It's one of the hardest things that a chronic pain
patient could ask someone in chronic pain. And why is
that because we've been let down so many times, the
letdown disappointment of oh my god, it's here again, and
the judgment you heard the judgment like, oh my god,
here the pain.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
Is still here.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
Right, there's so much let down there. It can be.
It doesn't necessarily have to be on I'm just bringing
it in and recognizing and acknowledging everyone listening. It can
be very difficult to ask for help because you know
maybe they'll say no, and we don't want more let down,
so ask for help. Right, That's a really important you
(39:47):
really want to get with doctors and that understand integrated
pain management. You want to get in a pain management program.
I'm a great coach in that space. I'm not a
doctor or therapist, but I'm a great coach in that
space because I know the way, and I know the language,
and I understand the physiology and all that stuff I
(40:10):
just don't have.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
I'm just not a doctor, writer, or a therapist. So
ask for help.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
And then the other thing is you you really need
to allow yourself the luxury of opening your mind. I know,
for me, it was like, this is my lot, and
this is where I'm stuck, and oh my god, how
(40:39):
am I going to get out? And and I, you know,
it doesn't feel good and and and it still doesn't
feel good, and I don't know how to get out.
And it's just this, you know, very difficult space. And
I and my my own, my own belief system got
(41:01):
in the way.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
And I'll give you an example.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Of how I opened my place that opened my mind.
I had migraines for seven years in this forty year
crime paint experience in Migraine. Seven years, and I couldn't
and they just would they just hit me and I
and I couldn't find the pattern of like when it
just that the only pattern was there was no pattern,
(41:24):
and it was den it was it was really.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Difficult.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
And I remember the last time I had a migraine,
I was lying in my bed. It's a dark room,
it's quiet, and goodness, I had a place in the
house that was like that, and I was, you know,
fighting the pain, and and I heard this, I swear
(41:53):
it was God, you know, divine voice, whatever you want
to call that, Elizabeth, Clearly what you're doing is not working.
Why not try a contrary action? And I was like, okay,
what would that even be? Yeah? And the contrary action
(42:15):
was stop fighting with the pain and stop right And
I was like, okay, Like you got me.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
And I stopped fighting and I never had another migraine.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
That headache that my brain went away, my nervous system
calmed down.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
I never had another migraine.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
I still had more work to do around clearing the
chronic pain habit that I had, but man, that was
a powerful teaching Yeah, so.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Try a contrary action.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Whatever you're doing is clearly not working, so try something different.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, thank you so much. So, if people want to
buy your book reach out to you, how do they
go about doing that?
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Sure, yes they can.
Speaker 6 (43:02):
You can find my book on Amazon, but you can
also find find me on my website, which is Elizabeth
with a hyphen between my first and last name, Elizabeth
hyphenkip dot com k I P P. And if you
want an autographed copy, you can you can.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
It's from my website. You can book a session with me.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
I've got a free fifteen minute consultations you can sign
up for that.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
You know, I've got I do n sister Clearing.
Speaker 6 (43:30):
I do addiction recovery and I and I do coaching
for people that are trying to hear from chronic pain.
That's my area. Elizabeth hyphenkip dot com. You can find
me on social media too.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
I great, thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I already know two people I'm gonna report you for
that consult maybe more.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
You know, I really want to thank you so much
for being on the.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Healing Light podcast and really appreciate you open my eyes.
I'm sure you've opened my listeners. I in a completely
new way of thinking about product gain and I believe
that you really give people hope. I think people need
hope in this world. They really need to feel like
(44:15):
they have something today that they can believe in, and
I believe that you offer that. So thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (44:24):
Any last thought, Well, I would like to say one thing.
Thank you so much for having me as a guest.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
You know, I give twenty percent of the responsibility from.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
My healing to the entire health community like doctors, nurses, therapists, whatever,
and the other eighty percent is between me and the
healing intelligence and every cell in my body. So I
understand that the twenty percenters they're giving you guidance, and
(45:01):
it's up to me. The eighty percent is up to
me and this intelligence to apply the information that the
guidance gives me, to apply it and then get out
of the way and let the healing happen. That we
have this incredible healing intelligence inside of us. Yeah, that's
that's how I break that down. Hopefully that's helpful too.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Once again, I wish everyone very wonderful Sunday evening.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
And have a great night.
Speaker 6 (45:33):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
Channe
The fuse and opinions expressing this podcast by the host
or the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of
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by Paranoral Buzz Radio without express written consent is strictly prohibited.
For information on everything Paranormal Buzz Radio has to offer,
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Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hi, I'm Caitlin Russell. Welcome to The Healing Like Podcast.
I am a psychic intuitive who's been reading tarot cards
for over twenty five years. I'm also Reiki certified. Join
me as I read cards, share intuitive messages, promote healing,
and much much more.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hi, everyone, it's hitting from the Healing Light Podcast to
call as well. Before I get to stay topics with
a wonderful guest, I just wanted to remind everyone that
you can find my podcast, The Healing Like Podcast, on
the Speaker app which is a free app, or anywhere
you on your podcast. If you have any feedbacks for
(01:25):
the show a guest you'd like to hear from any topics,
please feel free. I am on Facebook under the Healing
Light and H.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
You can also email.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Me at the Healing Light one at the Healing Light
Number one.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
At gmail dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So my social media, you can find me our Instagram
at the Healing Light and H kind them on TikTok
same deal. I don't do action, while you'll find me
on Facebook a hopefully Facebook Instagram. So thank you very
much to Paranormal Book Radio and Roche for fifting with
(02:10):
recording tonight. So I'm very excited to have Elizabeth on.
So Elizabeth Tip, it's going to share her journey through
her chronic pain, and we're going to talk about what
chroduct pain means and how we navigate that and how
we can actually feel.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I love her. I love her book, The Way.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Through Chronic Pain, Tools to Reclaim Your Healing Power, and.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Uh, we'll get right to it. So, Elizabeth, thank you
for being on the Healing Like Podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
How are you?
Speaker 6 (02:47):
I'm good. I'm honored to be able to talk to
you today and to address your audience and to share
your podcast with my audience.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
This is great. We get to we get to cross
polemate with each other.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Love Yeah, I love it too. So before I get
to your book, which is it was amazing read, very easy,
had a lot of points and I took a lot
of notes for myself too. I wanted to ask you
in terms of.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Chronic pain, what is chronic pain? How does that what
is that.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Different from a pain that you might get, like if
you stub your toe or something like that, And how does.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
It affect our lives?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And we'll talk about methods to overcome it in a bit,
but like how big of an impact does it have?
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Okay, those are three questions that I'll start with the
first one and we can spend the whole hour on that,
but we won't chronic pain just for the audience. Is
any pain that's about fifteen days out of thirty for
three months? Are more physical? Mental, emotional, spiritual, financial? It's
(04:06):
all It all sends the same signal to the brain.
It hurts, so the brain can tell the difference between
a broken bone and a broken heart. It's all the
same pain, right, So that's our working definition. Most people
think it's just physical, but it's so much more right
(04:27):
the nervous system, the brain sees it as so much more.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
So.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
Kind of what's the difference between stubbing your toe and
chronic pain. We have a mechanism in the nervous system
the brain called the stress response, and it activates when
we're we need to fight, flight free, shut down those
kinds of things, and it comes on and as soon
(04:58):
as we've taken care of whatever the problem was, it
goes off again.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
It resets down to normal.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
In chronic pain, that stress response stays in the on
position and doesn't come back to normal. And we're not
made really for that. We're not made for kin our
nervous system, our biology is not made for chronic pain,
for chronic stress. We're made for this on off kind
(05:26):
of situation, not for when it gets stuck in the
on position. So understanding that chronic stress chronic pain are
similar in the brain in terms of the stress on
the nervous system, the other part of it is that
the in chronic pain, there's already in regular healthy humans,
(05:50):
there's a there's a slight negative bias. So we're where.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
For the threat just kind of in the background.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
We're a kind of our first answer is no to
something new, something unfamiliar, Our first answer is no. And
then uh, just kind of from a very primal place
to keep us safe. And then are. Then we can
bring it to the pre frontal cortext and we can
we can sort out, you know, is this is this
new thing, isn't going to be safe or not right?
(06:27):
And we can decide yes or no, But the first
answer is always no, which is referencing the back, older,
ancient part of the brain and uh in the chronic
pain experience, because the stress response is in the on
(06:48):
position all the time, that negativity gets fired up and magnified,
so we become our our whole kind of demeanor changes
where we see the world in a more threatening way,
(07:08):
like you're a threat.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Everything out there is a threat, and.
Speaker 6 (07:12):
We'll also turn that in on ourselves and now I'm
a threat to myself.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
So it's this.
Speaker 6 (07:21):
We're really not made for this kind of a situation.
And you can see how damaging that is that it's
so stressful.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
On the body.
Speaker 6 (07:29):
We're really not made for those kinds of stressors long term.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
You know, it's you know, it's an interesting way to
put it because when you say we're not made for it,
because I mean for me, for myself, I didn't know
of what chronic pain was until I had chronic pain,
and to me, it seems like a fairly you're right,
like a fairly new concept. And what also just kind
(07:57):
of give me the light bulb moment, is it's not
a physical pain, it's mental pain. It's any kind of
it's any kind of pain, really, and so I, yeah,
that makes a whole lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
So let me let me dive in Cuba.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
It's any kind of pain that lasts for fifteen days
out of thirty for three months or more.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Oh, yeah, that's good, that's good to know.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Yeah, it's like any pain. There's like there's pain, and
then there's there's a cute pain which comes and goes
like I stubbed my toe, and then there's chronic pain.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Any pain that's felt fifteen.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Days out of thirty for three months or more, that's chronic.
And when it gets to the chronic point, the brain
is changed by that. And the ways that the brain
has changed is this this pronounced negativity in the mind,
in our attitude, the emotional center in the brain gets
(08:55):
gets affected, and so we have this negative spin. We
turn it towards others, we turn it towards ourselves, and
and and also there's a lot of chaos that is
created in the brain. So we have to we can't
think straight. But we're so reactive. We're up in this
activated mode all the time, and you have real difficulty
(09:17):
accessing executive thinking when you're fired up all the time.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
It's it's kind of contrary to the way we're wired.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, absolutely, so that absolutely I hope it said resonates
with me. I didn't you know when you think about
what I would think about my pain, or really I
have a friend who has I know a few people
by finishes.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
You don't think that it entrints itself on the brain.
You just I didn't make that connection.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And the way you explained it, it totally makes sense
because I.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Know some experience.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
It's that when when I'm in.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Pain, my whole well gets fuzzy. I can't concentrate it
in effects had to toee. So that's that makes sense,
That makes sense. Play it that way. So it's trying
pain and it's literally like effects your brain.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
So well, think.
Speaker 6 (10:20):
About it for a moment. Think about it for a moment.
The brain is this highly adaptable organ.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
It's just it's just amazingly.
Speaker 6 (10:34):
It's just quite an interesting, fascinating, powerful, you know, machining
human machine. It's constantly adapting to its environment. So if
a chronic pain signals coming in, it's going to adapt
to that it and it adapts the best that it
(10:54):
can given the way it's made. And because we're really
not evolutionarily speaking, we're really not made for chronic stress.
We're made for stress and then calm down stress and
then calm down kind of thing. We're like, but we're
not made for distress to be in the on position.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
And so.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Because the brain's constantly adapting to current circumstances, we call
that plastic it changes all the time. Well, chronic pain
will change the brain, and the way we heal from
that is we heal the changes that are made in
the brain, and medication doesn't do that.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
We actually have to make behavioral changes.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
We have to kind of change our environment and change
how we're thinking in order to change the brain to
affect change back in the brain.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
So the brain is really.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
A reflection of kind of what's happening in our environment
and what we're making it mean. And so that's a
perspective that's very helpful.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Absolutely, So we talk about you knowing, one of the
first things to sit out and is right in the
beginning of the book is the healing field, and you
said there's a promise of the.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Healing field, So what is what is the healing field
and what did that mean for us?
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Well, I love that you brought that in right after
what we just talked about. Again, the brain is this
highly adaptable machine, and we have a unless we're actually dying,
which you know most of us will have that experience
at some point, but most of us are not right,
(12:43):
So we have this incredible healing machine, uh intelligence in
the body, and so we were we want to realize
that and we want to understand that when does healing happen,
(13:06):
It happens in the now, just like the brain is
assessing what's happening now and it adapts to that circumstance
very quickly. So we have to take responsibility for the
now and what we're bringing to the now because that's
where healing happens. Healing doesn't happen in the past or
(13:27):
the future. It happens now. And one of the issues
that we have in the chronic pain experience is that
we lose track of the present moment because we're constantly
comparing our current experience to the past and then and
then projecting about what's going to happen to us in
the future, and we kind of miss what's happening in.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
The present moment because we're time tripping and we miss
the present, which is where the healing is.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
That to me is one of the multi profound things
I've ever heard, because you know, I know that that
makes so much sense about we think that, Okay, this
is happened in the past, so it's bound.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
To happen in the future.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So which brings me to something else that kind of
stood out that was kind of like a batch a
moment or aha moment for me, is you talk about
being who is responsible for your healings, so you will
think about when you have pain. Upon a pain, you
(14:35):
think that you're relying on your doctors, your orthathetic doctor,
your find doctor, whatever doctor.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
But you say it actually has to spin with you,
isn't Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Well, it's both.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
It's just a matter of what's the proportion there. So
I love that you brought that in. It's so important.
I remember my experience of chronic pain for most of
the forty years I was in it was it's doing
it to me and I didn't feel like I had
any power over it.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
It was just and I so I fought with it
all the time. It's like I'll fight. I don't look
good at that.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
And thank goodness I had that in my you know,
in that in my genetics that I can be that,
you know, tough. But with my God, we really don't
have to do that. I just didn't know any better.
But when I got with in the pay management program
with doctor Peter Prescott, who since we're here, who wrote
this beautiful book Conquer Chronic Pain and Innovative My Body Approach,
(15:42):
which is a beautiful companion to my book. When I
got into his pain management program, he asked this question,
he said, what are you doing to contribute to your pain?
And I was, you know, brand new in his classroom
and there's there's twenty other people in the room that
(16:02):
are also in chronic pain. And my response, in my mind,
I didn't say anything, but in my mind was like,
I can't believe he just asked a whole rootful of
chronic pain patients what are they doing to.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
Contribute to them? What the hell kind of question is that?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yeah, get out of here.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
Paint is doing it to me. And you know, like,
who are you know.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
What's the deal here? And that was the first my
trigger response to that question. But you know, he was
the doctor in the room, and I, you know, was
they're open and you know, hoping to learn something I
didn't know. And I realized in that moment, oh my god,
(16:45):
it's possible that, like I'm actually doing something to contribute
to my own pain. Just by asking that question, he's
opening this door to the possibility that maybe something I'm
doing is contributing to the pain I'm experiencing. And in
that moment, I went from complete victimhood to my pain
to empowerment, feeling like I actually have you know, some
(17:10):
power here where I was I had any right that
was really powerful. So so yeah, that's where that the
scene to that got started, was in that that little
moment where he brought that in and I and I
realized after I sat there for a minute, he said.
(17:33):
The next thing he said, which was equally as powerful,
was don't judge the moment. And I thought, to my
just again, you know, total chronic pain, victimy mode. The
thing that went through my mind was, dude, I'm just
sitting here, minding my own business, you know, trying to
like figure out my space in this place. I didn't
(17:55):
know anybody in the room, you know, minding my own business.
I'm not doing I'm not doing anything, you know. He's like,
I just didn't think I was doing anything, and.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
I didn't think I was judging anything at all.
Speaker 6 (18:22):
And then all of a sudden, I realized, you know,
this is all going through my mind. At about three seconds,
then I realized, oh my goodness, I've been judging my
pain as bad my whole life. You know, I've been
judging my pain as bad all my life. And so
(18:43):
when I'm having a pain experience, my attitude is I
have to fight with this thing because it's bad. And
so he's saying, don't judge the moment, and I'm judging
my pain.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
He meant my pain by the moment. He meant the pain.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
I mean, because my first experience was like, I'm not
judging anything. I'm just sitting here listening to you. But
he meant my pain, and I was like, oh my goodness, no,
wonder that's how I know. That was the beginning of
me understanding that's how I'm contributing to my pain by
just labeling it as a bad experience. Where pain is actually,
you know, when you come to it from a straight
(19:20):
up clinical kind of you know, biological system, and I
have a biology background, biological system approach. It's just information
in the system. It doesn't it's not good or bad.
It just is and it's information. And the question is
what are you going to do with the information? Well,
I had spent all those years, you know, calling it
(19:41):
bad and.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Fighting with it. That's what I was doing with.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
The information, where really it's just the body giving me
a signal that you need to do something different. I, like.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I said, power. There's one of the big things that
I think people don't realize is when you have pain,
when you have a lot of you know, mental health issues,
whatever issues you might have, you might feel powerless, feel
completely submissive, whatever's going on.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
And I want to be like your biggest cheerleader and say, yeah,
but you can do that. You can you can.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I always say you can take back your power. So
you feel like you lost your power, you can take
back your power. So when you say that you're responsible
or your healing, mean what that means hearing you right?
That you you can take back control and take that power.
(20:48):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (20:51):
I think we have to be a little bit For me,
I'd have to careful about what I meant by those words.
But when I when I and I'll put it in
the context of what we're talking about. When I feel
like that I'm the victim of the pain and it's
doing it to me, OK, then I've lost any power.
(21:13):
I have no purchase in that landscape. I've got no grounding.
I'm just at it's whim or what doctor Prescott brought
in was like, well, you know you have a role
in this. You know your reaction to the pain alone
of that, right, that's that's just adding to the to
the fire, you know. So the question is can I
(21:41):
and be careful here because it's it's it's not it's
a it's a kind of a very difficult to teach this.
I can kind of speak about it and people can try.
I can try and create an opening so people can
have an experience of it.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
It's very hard to I feel like it's hard to teach.
So I'm having an.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Experience of a lot of sensation in the Body's just
take the pain word out of it and and call
it a lot of an intense sensation, And it's a
signal from the body saying like, whatever you're doing right now,
you know, do something different because you know we're in
healing mode and you know if you keep doing this,
(22:22):
you're going to be moving in a in a more
destructive direction. So so the idea there is to not
fight the pain, and that that's I just said something
very profound. Don't fight the pain when are when are
our first really instinct is to fight it for many
(22:44):
reasons that I could get into that later, but our
first instinct is really just like we don't like it,
and we're going to get an attitude and I'm going
to fight it. So I discovered after I went through
doctor Peter's program I had and I learned all his
tools and everything. I had a chance to practice him.
(23:07):
I came home and I got a I woke up
one morning and.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
I had a.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I had a headache and something like a muscle in
my neck had gone, you know, spasms or something.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
I had this massive headache.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
And I kind of went from a sleep and everything
was fine to awaken like there's a ten alarm fire
going off my head. And I had enough space in
my consciousness to kind of watch my reaction and this.
Speaker 5 (23:38):
Is what I did.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Oh my god, I'm in pain. First of all, it's
a freak out. First thing, freaked out. Second thing, Oh,
I remember when I had this before because it was
familiar to me. Thirteen I did was I got to
see my chiropractor to get my neck back together. And
and and you know, wow, what happened there? Right. The
(24:06):
first thing was I experienced a sensation. I had a
judgment about it. Oh my god, I'm freaking out. So
I judged it as bad, which is my old habit.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
We all do it.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
And then the next thing I did was I referenced
the past and I got out of the present moment.
I went immediately to the past and compared it and
freaked out again. So I just added more pain into
the whole situation. I just added more negative pain into it.
And then I disempowered myself by saying I got to
(24:43):
go see a doctor to help me with this, thinking like,
I have no power here.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
It's got me right.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
So I went into this old habit and I happened
to see myself do that, and I realized, wow, you know,
I'm just freaking myself out here. And I just have
pulled muscle and im and so I I kind of
laughed at myself and and was grateful that I had
the tools, the first of awareness, and second that I
(25:10):
had done this time tripping thing and that and that, and.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
That I had some power in this space.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Right.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
It was prior to that, before I went into Peter's program,
I didn't think I had any power in the in
the pain space. Well I do. And so I stopped
and I blongely breathing, and you know what, I stopped
fighting with the pain. I just allowed the pain to
be what it was, thinking it's information in the system,
the systems trying to process it. Get the mind out
(25:39):
of the way, breathe right, And I did that, and
you know what happened.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
That pain was gone in five minutes.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Oh yeah. So I can so relate to that because.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
You know, if you think about it, you think about it,
you know exactly the.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Way it happens.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And so when you are experiencing pain, your mindset change.
All we talk about, well, if someone has a pain,
what can they they do?
Speaker 6 (26:23):
Yes, love, that's that's a perfect question. After what we
just talked about. So there's a hierarchy to healing. There's
an actual hierarchy first the nervous system. Then we want
a sense of some kind of connection to ourselves, to
another person, to higher power, some kind of connection.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Then we can learn, Then we can reason. But if I'm.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Freaked out, I actually don't have access to my pre
puntal cortex for the reasoning part of the brain.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
I'm just in the back.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Brain freaking out, fight flight shut down, one of.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Those free So the first thing I have to do
is notice, I'm just regulated, I'm activated.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
My nervous system's upset, I'm in sympathetic, and that's kind
of what the state of the nervous system is at
that point. And my job there is to breathe because
the breath, the mind follows the breath, and the nervous
system takes its cue from what the breast's doing, which
(27:29):
I think is a really powerful teaching and tool because
when I have a sharp pain and I do that,
what am I doing? I'm holding my breath, right, That's
what we do in the and so we're telling the
nervous system it's in fight flight protect mode, where you
can't protect and connect at the same time. And the
(27:53):
second run on the hierarchy of healing is connection. So
the first thing you have to do is let the
breath out, is use the breath as a tool to
let the nervous system know that it's actually safe and
it's not under threat and it doesn't need to protect.
And it might take three minutes of long deep breathing
(28:13):
or just left nostril, long deep breathing through the left nostril,
just nice, calm, long deep breath with that exhale as
long or longer than the inhale, and then you'll feel
the nervous systems start to calm, and then you'll feel
then you're back connected, and you're not. Because what I
(28:35):
do when I get like that all activated, I tend.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
To just like dissociate.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
I'm just like I try and get out of my
body as fast as possible. That's my old habit. I'm
just like, I don't want to be here and I food.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
So as soon as.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
I bring in the breath and the nervous system starts
to calm, then I reconnect to myself. I might reach
out to another person and coregulate we help each other,
or I'm just maybe you send a prayer out to
my higher power kind of thing. But I'm connected to
me and I'm connected to you know something, you know,
(29:11):
a friend, the creator of all that is something like that.
Then I can what happened, what's just happened? Then I
can reason with like what was that? You know that
pain or whatever? What caused that? You know? So so
understanding that there's a hierarchy to healing. First regulate, then
(29:33):
connect sense of belonging, and then you can reason your
way through.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
That. That that's a helpful understanding.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Yeah right, great, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I know when I've had my struggles, I mean the
secret of I thinks that have happened to me. I
remember what a therapist said to me about focus.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
On your breathing.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
There's something called there's all different ways to focus on
your breathing. There's fox breathing. There's the four for four
methods where you inhale, where you're smelling the roses ex
sale and you're in yale before selling the Roses X sale,
you're blowing out the birthday candles and I haven't reached
this point yet. You're supposed to blow it up four minutes.
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Or something like that.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
Wow, that's the long exhale, long exhale.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
But so the whole goal is just you know similar
is that you when you're in the moment, you realize
you're in the moment and then you start you step
away to focus on your breathing. And you know what
I really want to like about how this whole topic
is you're not only helping people with their healing journey,
(30:52):
you know process, but you've also experienced it too. So
one just quickly touch base on your experience and what
your you know, what happened to you. I think people
would be would totally get that.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
What happened to me was the pains, my tame situation.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah. Yeah, like can you talk about can you talk
about here you were and you were when you were
when you have experience with your pain because you talk
about having things happened when you were a lot younger. M.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Yeah, so I had. I had. I had a history
really of chronic pain, right uh, starting with my childhood
and and I didn't know what to call it, and
nobody taught me how to breathe.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
But I learned to live with it.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
And so that when I really actually hurt myself because
I actually broke a vert brain in my back in
my low back when I was fourteen, when I at
that point, I was so used to kind of a
fairly high level of pain, like all the time that
I walked away from that accident. It hurt, but I
(32:19):
walked away from the accident. And because I walked away,
even though I was in pain, I was physically able
to walk, and I figured I was okay.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I had a broken fifth love bar that I didn't.
I didn't I would.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
I'll just give you an example of how much of
a kind of a background chronic pain situation I had
by the time that accident happened.
Speaker 5 (32:44):
I just didn't even realize I hurt.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
That it wasn't.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
It wasn't like, you know, I know, I remember going
home from going home from that accident and I'm walking
in and I told my dad, I, you know, I
fell up my horse that day and.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
Kind of hurt my back and we never had.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
An X ray because I was so I was so
disaffective emotionally, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
I didn't that I.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Really hurt myself.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I was not. That was just not in my world.
It wasn't safe to emote and really express myself.
Speaker 5 (33:23):
It just wasn't safe. So I didn't.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
And I'm really too bad because nobody caught the he
didn't catch the uh, the danger there and I and
I walked around with a broken vertebra for fourteen years
before it had surgery. And then I had surgery, and
then then the pain got crazy bad because then the
(33:46):
opiates and the benzodiazepines started, and it was just the
surgery just anyway it was. It was a mess. The
doctors didn't know. They knew that chronic pain was a thing,
but they didn't know how to treat it, and they
didn't really understand what's happening in the brain.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
They just they just didn't have that understanding. So they
gave me.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
Opiates and any anxiety medicine to cope with them, and said,
you have to learn to live with this for the
rest of your life. You're going to be in level
seven out of ten, page twenty four to seven for
the rest of your life in a wheelchair when you're forty.
Learned and live with it. And I was like shocked,
(34:34):
It's like, this is my life. But I had a
science background and that was my saving grace. I really
I felt and I knew that scientific paradigms shifted, and
I knew that the doctors were operating in a scientific paradigm,
and they shift. And I also understood from that statement,
(34:58):
because I was trained as a basic science researcher, I
knew from that statement, you will be. I knew that
they'd forgotten their basic science because science is not about facts,
it's about probabilities. So they were That was a mistake
when they said that. Many of them said it. That
(35:19):
was a mistake they made. They should have said you
the probability is. They didn't say that. They said you will,
so they didn't leave any room for hope. And this
is why I come on these podcasts again and again
and again to bring this message because that's a dishonest statement.
It's just a it's a misunderstanding of the of the territory.
(35:42):
And and you have to leave the window open for hope.
You can't be so, you can't be so sure of
yourself that you know everything. And then and sit in
front of a patient to say that. That's why I say,
it's a misunderstanding. They made a mistake, So you see
so and and and finally, and I and I kept,
(36:05):
I kept, and I and I knew that that was happening,
and I knew I was going to have to look
outside of the scientific paradigm, the current understanding. I knew
I was going to have to look outside of that
to find my answer or or have something else with it.
And when I found doctor Peter Prescott many years later,
(36:26):
he was trained as a Western doctor, but he also
had Eastern training, so he was a cheekang healer, and
he understood I got into like all kinds of yoga
and meditate. I was already doing meditation, and I got
into a massage therapy in chigang and reggie and and
acupuncture and lots of other things that kind of looking around.
But Peter put it all together in his program where
(36:50):
he brought in Eastern and Western and and and some
and some cognitive behavioral therapy, and he really understood the
nature of kind of pain and schools right went right
in there. And and I mean, like I said that
question that he asked, what are you doing to uh
to contribute to your pain?
Speaker 5 (37:10):
That he that was his, That was his that was
his lead, that his leaden.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
And he had me, you know, because I realized that
I might have some power here where. Prior to that,
I didn't think I had any power at all.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Ye wow, Wow, it's amazing. You know, al well, time
to wrap it up, and I feel like it that
you and I could probably have a conversation for like
two hours five minutes. There are a lot of I
really like if talk about what pain is and living
(37:45):
in the moment and you know, what are you doing
for your pain and power? And then you also talk
about your experience, so you you known you have empathy
for those who are suffering from chronic pain, and you
also uh help breathing and things that people people can
(38:09):
do as you're John, I'm probably mispronouncing. There a yoga
gratitude journal. I saw their meditation. These are all things
that I have also started doing.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
It's kind of new in the process lives.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Lives get so busy and what goes on that I
think that people can kind of forget that you can
take some moments, those uh you know, those moments where
you can participate in activity that are going to definitely
help you.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
So, do you have any final words about chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Anyone who's suffering maybe feels that the situation.
Speaker 6 (38:50):
Is h Yeah, I get that question a lot because
this is a space where we were definitely touching the helplessness.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
So that you have to ask for help.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
It's one of the hardest things that a chronic pain
patient could ask someone in chronic pain. And why is
that because we've been let down so many times, the
letdown disappointment of oh my god, it's here again, and
the judgment you heard the judgment like, oh my god,
here the pain.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
Is still here.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
Right, there's so much let down there. It can be.
It doesn't necessarily have to be on I'm just bringing
it in and recognizing and acknowledging everyone listening. It can
be very difficult to ask for help because you know
maybe they'll say no, and we don't want more let down,
so ask for help. Right, That's a really important you
(39:47):
really want to get with doctors and that understand integrated
pain management. You want to get in a pain management program.
I'm a great coach in that space. I'm not a
doctor or therapist, but I'm a great coach in that
space because I know the way, and I know the language,
and I understand the physiology and all that stuff I
(40:10):
just don't have.
Speaker 5 (40:11):
I'm just not a doctor, writer, or a therapist. So
ask for help.
Speaker 6 (40:17):
And then the other thing is you you really need
to allow yourself the luxury of opening your mind. I know,
for me, it was like, this is my lot, and
this is where I'm stuck, and oh my god, how
(40:39):
am I going to get out? And and I, you know,
it doesn't feel good and and and it still doesn't
feel good, and I don't know how to get out.
And it's just this, you know, very difficult space. And
I and my my own, my own belief system got
(41:01):
in the way.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
And I'll give you an example.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Of how I opened my place that opened my mind.
I had migraines for seven years in this forty year
crime paint experience in Migraine. Seven years, and I couldn't
and they just would they just hit me and I
and I couldn't find the pattern of like when it
just that the only pattern was there was no pattern,
(41:24):
and it was den it was it was really.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
Difficult.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
And I remember the last time I had a migraine,
I was lying in my bed. It's a dark room,
it's quiet, and goodness, I had a place in the
house that was like that, and I was, you know,
fighting the pain, and and I heard this, I swear
(41:53):
it was God, you know, divine voice, whatever you want
to call that, Elizabeth, Clearly what you're doing is not working.
Why not try a contrary action? And I was like, okay,
what would that even be? Yeah? And the contrary action
(42:15):
was stop fighting with the pain and stop right And
I was like, okay, Like you got me.
Speaker 5 (42:24):
And I stopped fighting and I never had another migraine.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
That headache that my brain went away, my nervous system
calmed down.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
I never had another migraine.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
I still had more work to do around clearing the
chronic pain habit that I had, but man, that was
a powerful teaching Yeah, so.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
Try a contrary action.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Whatever you're doing is clearly not working, so try something different.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, thank you so much. So, if people want to
buy your book reach out to you, how do they
go about doing that?
Speaker 5 (43:01):
Sure, yes they can.
Speaker 6 (43:02):
You can find my book on Amazon, but you can
also find find me on my website, which is Elizabeth
with a hyphen between my first and last name, Elizabeth
hyphenkip dot com k I P P. And if you
want an autographed copy, you can you can.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
It's from my website. You can book a session with me.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
I've got a free fifteen minute consultations you can sign
up for that.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
You know, I've got I do n sister Clearing.
Speaker 6 (43:30):
I do addiction recovery and I and I do coaching
for people that are trying to hear from chronic pain.
That's my area. Elizabeth hyphenkip dot com. You can find
me on social media too.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
I great, thank you.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
I already know two people I'm gonna report you for
that consult maybe more.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
You know, I really want to thank you so much
for being on the.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Healing Light podcast and really appreciate you open my eyes.
I'm sure you've opened my listeners. I in a completely
new way of thinking about product gain and I believe
that you really give people hope. I think people need
hope in this world. They really need to feel like
(44:15):
they have something today that they can believe in, and
I believe that you offer that. So thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (44:24):
Any last thought, Well, I would like to say one thing.
Thank you so much for having me as a guest.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
You know, I give twenty percent of the responsibility from.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
My healing to the entire health community like doctors, nurses, therapists, whatever,
and the other eighty percent is between me and the
healing intelligence and every cell in my body. So I
understand that the twenty percenters they're giving you guidance, and
(45:01):
it's up to me. The eighty percent is up to
me and this intelligence to apply the information that the
guidance gives me, to apply it and then get out
of the way and let the healing happen. That we
have this incredible healing intelligence inside of us. Yeah, that's
that's how I break that down. Hopefully that's helpful too.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Once again, I wish everyone very wonderful Sunday evening.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
And have a great night.
Speaker 6 (45:33):
Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
Channe
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