Reacting to an EXPLOSIVE IUBB Twitter Tuesday w: Thoughts on NIL and Mike Woodson [330]

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The world of IUBB never fails to entertain. Nithin and Matt give their NEUTRAL and AGENDA-FREE take on Hoosier Hysterics' meeting with Mike Woodson.
How can NIL management continue to improve as we approach three years since it became a staple of college sports? Also, does IU have an NIL problem? Who's the voice of leadership in the program?
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Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Well, are you fans? Tuesdaywas something? Tuesday was really really something
on the app formerly known as Twitteruh in conjunction with the app currently known
as Podcasts on your phone or Spotifyor wherever you listen to podcasts. Because

(00:29):
the Who's Your Hysterics they they airedtheir dirty Laundry and look Matt and I
since we started, or since Mattstarted this podcast, and since I joined
Matt Noah the other Noah, sincethey started this podcast, like, we've

(00:49):
never been a podcast with an agenda. We don't have ties to internal ties
to the men's basketball program. I'mnot friends with Mike Woodson. I'm not
friends with the Hoosia Hysterics. Idon't think Matt is either. So we're
all gonna sort of look at this, look at everything that happened on Tuesday

(01:14):
as a third party, as aneutral observer, and just kind of give
our takes on what we heard.There was a lot. Matt and I
both listened to the Hysterics podcast.We obviously are very close to the I
E. Men's basketball program. Wedo have some pretty serious takes related to
both sides of this that we're goingto be diving into here over the course

(01:38):
of the next I don't know happenedan hour forty five minutes. We'll talk
about the epic Twitter Tuesday, theIU men's basketball had, perhaps touch a
little bit on khalil Ware in theNBA Draft, and so much more here
on episode three three zero of TheHoosier Sound, or read the official podcast

(01:59):
of Indian HQ recording this edition ofThe Hoosier Sound on Wednesday, June twenty
sixth, twenty twenty four. WhereI am your host, Nathan Christian here
with me tonight is my normal cohost, Matt Luken's Matt. There was
an hour of crazy details that theHoosiah Hysterics unveiled yesterday as it relates to

(02:23):
a meeting that Eric had with notonly Mike Woodson, but at least for
some part of it involves Scott Dolsonas well. NIL has been around for
three years as we know it.It kicked off July one, twenty twenty
one. And to give the HoosiaHysterics credit, they were a podcast originally

(02:46):
and became a major focal point,a major source for NIL contributions or events
or awareness or engagement as it relatesto IU men's basketball. Let's start with
a couple of questions, what haswhat did Hoosia Hysterics do right over the

(03:08):
last few years? What could theyhave done better? Let's start with over
the last few years. When youlook at Whosia Hysterics, what did they
do correctly as it relates to NILand IU men's basketball. Well, I
mean, first off, they tooktheir reach, and they took their fandom,

(03:30):
and they put their money literally theirmoney and put it where their mouth
was and supt their team, whichis a lot more than some of us
can say because I have not contributeda single dollar to NIL because I am
poor, so that man not behappening. But if I did have discretionary

(03:50):
income, I probably would give acouple of bucks every once in a while
just to like feel better when goodthings happen, right, And that had
to have been an amazing feeling forthem, right, having this NIL collective
that they ran and putting money towardsthe team. And I'm sure that three
years ago when Tray Jackson Davis cameback and the team was getting ready to
really up the anties into the Woodsscenario, I'm sure they felt like they

(04:13):
were a meaningful part of that andI'm sure they helped a lot of other
people as well. You know,their followers and their listeners and their fans
feel like they were a part ofas well if they contributed to that.
They also ran some pretty good eventsfrom what I heard for the most part,
and I heard people had a tonof fun at the fantasy camps and
stuff like that. That like thatwas cool to me. Again, I

(04:38):
don't have the money to be ableto go and do that, but if
I did, I actually probably wouldhave given a long thought to doing so.
It's you know, playing on assemblyhalls, court and hanging out with
the players and doing a bunch ofother things. It's pretty cool. It's
fun, and I think it's worthyof a donation and worthy of the program's
time. Yah, they haven't beenperfect. I think everybody knows that,

(05:02):
and I'm not about to just bythe way, if you're expecting us to
just like roast them for this entirepodcast, I appreciate you for listening this
long, and you can click offnow because I'm not going I'm not about
heroes and they I've been pretty cordialwith Eric and the d ms SO on
Twitter so podcast, and it wouldbe foolish to do so, and they

(05:26):
also have like a billion fans,So I respectfully decline getting into fights on
Twitter at work tomorrow. But anyways, I they you know, some of
you never you never get into Twitter. Yeah no, I've never once ever
gotten to a Twitter fight ever withhalf a fan base before, or been

(05:49):
absolutely fucking roasted by Justin Smith onTwitter. Shout out justice, shout out
yeah, and half of Arkansas Twitterwent after anyway, I'm trauma dumping now.
Umm no. So look, theDawson Garcia situation I think is the
most famous point. Some of theirjokes and humor and content hasn't exactly landed

(06:16):
in a way that is either aappropriate or be funny, and I think
they meant it to be both,and it just never was. Some of
it was creepy, honestly, especiallyfrom somebody who at the time was just
about the same age as a lotof these guys were, or had just
recently been that age, and thinkingabout forty or fifty year old men singing

(06:40):
my birthday, Happy Birthday to mein front of a bar little strange.
There's the Jeremy Fier situation where theytried to get him to say bad things
about the other schools that were recruitinghim outside of a meetup, which is
just wild behavior. And I'm notabout to excuse them as say it was

(07:00):
like them getting caught up and tryingto make content or whatever. They partially
knew what they were doing at thevery least like twenty percent of their you
know, their collective hive minds,one brain cell that they you know,
they they share, knew what theywere doing. And then obviously it went
a little bit out of control.But for the most part, unlike what

(07:25):
some people think, it's they havegiven a lot to the program that hasn't
been publicly applauded, I guess,or are publicly known. So most people
think that they it's like a sixtyforty bad versus good ratio for them.
I would say it's closer to fiftyto fifty, or even a little bit

(07:46):
higher on the good than they havedone bad. It's just that publicly they've
had some fuck ups, just likeeverybody else has, and so I will
forgive them for that for the mostpart. And they've also done I mean,
they don't just support men's basketball.It's been a men's basketball focused rant
here for a couple of seconds.But I mean they support women's basketball,

(08:07):
they support men's soccer. I believethey support the softball team as well.
They scored a bunch of different volleyball. They support a bunch of different sports
that aren't just the you know,flagship men's basketball program. And I think
they mentioned on the podcast they're goingto continue supporting them. I'm pretty sure
Sidney Parish even tweeted out, yeah, like, thank you so much for
the support. Right, And sothey have done a ton great for the

(08:31):
Indiana athletics program, just they mightnot have always been the best thing for
the basketball program. Yeah, Ithink that's that's a very fair way to
say it. You know, theythey were I think, for lack of
a better description, they were kindof the guinea pigs in a sense as

(08:52):
far as a real outspoken podcast orpassionate duo, a fan a fanatic turning
into a major source of nil contribution. And again, we don't have financial

(09:15):
statements. Okay, Matt and Iwould be comfortable looking at those, but
we don't have financial statements here.We just have to sort of take perception
and and lean on that, Okay. And as far as the events,
you're talking about, like you're right, those events, whether it's the fan

(09:37):
Fest that was canceled by Woodson again, that was kind of the major crux
of a lot of the issues thatwere discussed in Tuesday's podcast from the Hysterics,
cancelation of fan Fest, cancelation offantasy camps, that will, those
were events that at least when Iwent to Indian HQ and saw the thousands

(10:01):
of followers that we had shared theirfeedback, like they really, you know,
the folks that attended the fantasy camps, the fan Fest event, they
really in general, like generally broadlyspeaking, enjoyed their time at these at
these at these different at these differentat these different moments. With that said,

(10:26):
I think there were some war uhsome some some errors that Hoosia Hysterics
made that they can do better asit relates to other sports or other NIL
collectives can do better when they thinkabout Yumen's basketball. So I agree with
a lot of what you said aboutthe things that Hoosia Hysterics did well.

(10:50):
I think Hoosia Hysterics did a lotright. I listened to Hoosia Hysterics frequently
to get a bit of a pulseon what's going on with the program.
They were reported that Malik Renew wascoming back this upcoming season, Like that
was that they were the primary sourcethere, Like that's that was. I
was like, okay, thank youhysterics for informing me that Renews coming back.

(11:13):
They had interviews with players, right, They had interviews with players like
Anthony Leal and so you could getan idea of what was going on.
I think that was that was valuableto hear, to get the players perspective.
You talk about their influence and theirtime spent with other athletics, ANDIL
is a big deal nowadays. Indianais at the forefront of that. But

(11:35):
again, I think there were somethings that could have done better. First
of which, you can't wait threemonths to release details like this. And
all indications were that the meeting thatEric had with Woodson sounds like Scott Dolson
as well, took place in earlyApril, you know, having you know,

(12:00):
unless I'm not I didn't hear thatcorrectly. You know, it's hard
to sort of fairly paint a picturewhen you haven't you you know, you've
been You've been holding onto this informationfor three months going forward. If an
NIL collective has a meeting with Scottwith Scott Dolson and Mike Woodson. I

(12:22):
think the broader fan base would liketo know right away, you know,
I think there's almost an obligation responsibilityunless there was some sort of non disclosure
thing that was that was you know, there was a handshake on something like
that, I would like like,I think the fan base would like to

(12:43):
know. Holy crap, the headcoach brought a big nild source to Bloomington
to have to have a meeting withthem. We heard, who's your hysteric
side. We're not gonna go likeMatt, so we're not going to go
all in on the hysterics. We'renot going to go all in on Iumen's

(13:05):
basketball. But a big thing tome, and again this is really under
the label of things that NIL contributorscan think about going forward. Matt and
I talked about this just before westarted. When you're a podcast like we
are here, you can be criticalof Umen's basketball. When you're a media

(13:26):
organization like The Indie Star or Insidethe Hall, you can be critical of
Varumen's basketball. But when you startfinancially supporting the program, when you start
having a role in the players thatshow up on the court. When you

(13:48):
when you have a serious material sayin some of these management aspects of the
team and some of the personnel stuffon the team, you instantly have to
row in the same direction as thehead coach and the rest of the program.
That's it. Once you start contributingnil to the team, you have

(14:11):
to go in the same direction asthe team out like you are a massive
It's like you got head Like,I don't know, Matt, who do
you think is more powerful people whocontribute large sums of nil to the team
or the assistant coaches? Probably thenil source, I mean maybe, yeah,

(14:33):
Like the fact that it's close iskind of crazy nowadays, whether it's
financially supporting, whether it's vocally supportlike you know, vocally coming off as
a major nil part of this,and a lot of people probably probably doesn't
saying nith and who'sia Hysterics, theyweren't even a big nil like. I'm
not going to get into those details. All I know is the perception of

(14:56):
hysterics and the reality of hysterics isthat they have a large say in the
NIL stuff because of the events thatthey run, because of the time they
spend talking to the players like thereyou are. So once you become a
serious source of NIL and you haveevents at Assembly Hall and you do things

(15:18):
like you, you cannot then callout a fan base for being toxic.
When Liam McNeely decommits. You cannotcall out a head coach for saying he
didn't get your team into the NCAAtournament. You can't call out the players
for not shooting well or not reboundingwell, or not passing well. They're

(15:39):
not defending well NIL groups going forward, whether you want to call whether they're
collectives, whether they're one person like, once you start becoming a massive NIL
source, even a small NILS ButI'm really sort of drawing the line once
you're starting to have partnerships with players, once you start having a serious role

(16:02):
in the players that are on theteam. Once he had events that are
on campus using the home team's basketballarena, like you have to unilaterally row
in the same direction as the program. You cannot be critical. Am I
crazy for saying that, Matt Oris that something where I'm out of line
and I'm just maybe not seeing thatcorrectly? No, I agree. That

(16:26):
was the first thing that came tomy mind when I listened to their podcasts
actually, because it did seem likenot the whole time, but there was
times where Eric specifically was complaining abouthim having to do things, you know,
to appease Woodson right and to toyou know, fly out for a

(16:48):
meeting, and he's business. Iget that, but it's tough at the
same time, we're adults here.If I have a contract where I have
to you pay my rent by acertain day, I gotta pay my rent
by a certain day, and ifI don't, I pay the penalty,
they willingly became NIL ahead heads andI of an NIL leaders. It's not

(17:18):
it's it's not just that they donatedand IL because if you donate an IL,
don't get me wrong, you canbe critical of the team. That's
fine. But if you're leading thedonations of a of a fund to then
give to the team, and thenyou have a giant podcast and then go

(17:40):
out and said podcast or on Twitterspaces or whatever and are highly critical of
the team, when your face isthe face of an NIL collective problem,
it's there's a of course there's gonnabe problems because you're making Woodson's job even

(18:00):
harder because that is just absolutely primecut fucking Folet Mignon like anti recruitment,
like the recruitment. Look, youmake the coach look like an idiot,
you make him look like an idiot. You make him look like he doesn't
know what's going on with the program, which at times over the last couple

(18:25):
of years, I think I mighthave been critical of Woodson. I was
doing but you're you're not having interviews. I don't have events at assembly fall.
I haven't had photo ops with withthe coaching staff and players and been
there for recruiting stuff. I like, I'm not close enough where that's an

(18:45):
issue. Eric and Wayne are closeenough that that's an issue. Uh,
I just call him Wade Ward Ward, Jesus Christ Ward. Sorry, I
worked, I'm in China. Yeah, that's like, okay, that's like

(19:07):
I'm gonna pause there. That's likea pretty like if for those of you
that listen to the whole thing,like that might actually piss off Ward quite
a bit. So like we apologize, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
That was like a thing like thatwas like a thing like Woodson doesn't get

(19:27):
people's names right, and Ward istalking about how Woodson probably doesn't even know
Ward's name right now, So likethat was not intentional. We're really sorry,
No, that is that is me. Literally, I worked a ten
hour shift teaching kids all day,so I as a teacher, you're supposed

(19:48):
to get names wrong. I apologizeanyways, unbelievable. I don't even remember
where. Oh, okay, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's
right. No, that's that's asahead of it. And I like,
there's you have a certain responsibility tobe a member of the team, right,
because you're a member of the proteam as a whole. And and

(20:10):
I think that's where they they screwedup, right, is because they started
to think that and I'm maybe youknow, uh, psychoanalyzing a little bit
here, but you know, theythought that, hey, maybe we could
put some pressure on Mike Woodson andhis job, right, because we have

(20:33):
money and you know, if thedonors leave, right, if ore you
know, our nil starts giving lessand less, the program is going to
take a hit. So if wecan be critical of the coach, the
you know, the athletic department mightbe afraid that they're going to lose some
of this funding, right, andtherefore the team's going to be worse.

(20:56):
And so I can see why thatmight have been a thing. Also,
they could have just, you know, unbeknownst to them, been idiots,
right and just you know, mouthedoff their own opinion without thinking of the
full context of everything. And sometimespeople are idiots, and I understand that,
but they do have to realize,Yeah, I've been there a lot.

(21:18):
I just called war Weight, likeit happens once a podcast. You
guys, in the podcast, Isay something ridiculous, sorry, okay,
wow, all right, wow,all right. There's like that one guy
in every single one of our YouTubecomment sections, and that's right, yeah,
oh yeah, no, But therehad to have been a point in
time where they had to have takena step back and been like, hey,

(21:42):
you know, is this appropriate?Right? Surely? Right? Like,
is are we in an appropriate situationwhere we can be highly critical of
the head coach of the program thatworth giving money to and are a vocal
leader of a you know, apack, right, like like in the
elections, like a that gives moneyto something like you would never in an

(22:03):
in an election, right yeah,a leader on a super pack, right,
yeah, you never see the leaderof the superpack of the Republican Party,
right, go off? And belike Trump is a moron you that
guy would get fired the instant thatleft his mind or like or like Republican

(22:23):
voters are toxic or don't know whatlike because that everyone's row got to row
in the same direction, and andnil is the same way. Now the
woodson As are not publicly elected,but privately behind this I mean elected public
university is a public university. Andand he has to be approved by the

(22:48):
board of trustees that we elect tothen allow him. And then the board
of trustees elects a fucking athletic sorryI cursed again an emotional emotional day,
a freaking athletic director. Right,and so again he's our you know,
we have president Woodson, right,president of the IU basketball fandom right now,

(23:10):
and and so Ward and and andEric were you know, I would
like super pac donators like like theKoch brothers almost right for for the Reholican
but like these guys were were higherups and had more you know, access
to the program than me and Nithanand probably most of the people that listen

(23:33):
to this podcast combined, right,like and so I can see from the
program's perspective where they thought that thehysterics did cross the line, and I'm
not after listening to their podcast,I wasn't totally convinced that they had either
A learned that lesson or b havehad enough time to really ponder on it,

(23:59):
because it's been three months, butthen they haven't released the news.
But I would be I would besurprised if the conversation with with the program
and the staff ended three months ago. I'm assuming they probably kept in contact
and tried to you know, IronIron get a new Yeah. Yeah,
yeah, we could yeah yeah,rekindle you know, negotiations and stuff like

(24:25):
that. So but yeah, it'sjust I I I don't really understand how
they didn't see this coming, partiallyat least like because again, yeah,
they they literally put money where theirmouth is, and if their mouth is
going south, oh wait, maybeI don't want to say that. If

(24:51):
what they're saying is going south andthe program is going north, there's a
problem. Yeah, that's exactly That'sexactly the thing. And and I can
understand why Hysterics may not have seenthat coming because, like I've said earlier
in this episode, they are kindof on the forefront. They are kind
of the outspoken, you know,the leaders of sort of outspoken NIL contributions

(25:15):
where you are not only supporting theprogram, but you are running a podcast,
and you are hosting events, andyou are you know, like oh
see Twitter spaces, and you havea large fan base, Like this is
kind of unprecedented, not kind ofit is. It is unprecedented. And
I was three years old, okay, And it's gonna last past Matt and

(25:40):
I's lifetime. It's gonna last beon the lifetime of our kids, our
grandkids, and IL is gonna behere forever. And it's three years not
even three years old July first,okay. So there's a lot of unprecedented
stuff here that I think future NILcollectives can learn from. With that said,
Matt, I think it's time thatwe talked about i U side of

(26:02):
this. I think it's time thatwe talked about Indiana men's basketball side of
this, because we haven't heard avoice from the program speak to speak to
what just happened. We haven't seena statement I would like to. We'll
see if it comes down the road. I don't expect it to, but

(26:23):
we have some thoughts on men's basketball. The program within the four walls,
We're gonna go into those injust aminute. The first, it's time for
who won the week this past weekin IU sports, and we have to
tip our cap to all the swimmingand diving Olympians that will take a trip

(26:45):
to Paris and the upcoming weeks torepresent the They're various countries in the Olympic
Games. I would highly were therewere there are a lot of a lot
of people to list because in theend, the swim and diving as a
juggernaut. So AGAINNA swimming diving ownsthe Olympics, So you know, I

(27:07):
would go over to either the IndianaSwimming and Diving Twitter account or you know,
search them on the IYU website todive into all of the different individuals
that made the Olympic teams of alldifferent countries, US and beyond. Lily
King is the one we really haveto bring to the forefront because not only

(27:32):
did she qualify for Paris once again, but the IU alum got engaged on
NBC over the course of the Olympictrials that happened in her home state,
So you really can't ask for amore perfect Almost a few days of qualifying,
maybe we qualifying in India, Iwatched a lot of it. It

(27:56):
was action packed. I love swimmingand diving at the legiate level and then
watching the best of the best ofthe best go iron, iron, sharpening
iron and competing against each other.It's it was. It was awesome to
watch, especially at Lucas Oil Stadium. So shout out to all the Olympians

(28:19):
on the Indiana swimming and diving teamthat will be going to Paris in the
upcoming weeks. Folks are reminder,if you enjoy our show, or if
you really hate what we've said overthe last half an hour, leave us
a review, still, tell afriend, share our links. Your support

(28:40):
or distaste really helps us grow thispodcast and reach more passionate I you fans
such as yourselves, We're gonna betalking about nil forever. And so you
know, if if we're not characterizingsomething correctly, let us know, Like
we're the we we try to bea common sense position as far as I

(29:03):
Uman's basketball is concerned. Sometimes andthat is not you know, that is
not all that common in the worldof this basketball team. So we try
to keep we try to keep itas neutral as possible, as objective as
possible. If we like something,we'll say it. If we don't like
something, we'll say it that.We've heard a lot from the hysteric side

(29:23):
of things. But there were twosides to this, and the other side
is Indiana men's basketball and Mike Woodsonand Scott Doleson and the Candy Stripes and
the Cream and Crimson and a basketballteam that was like one hundredth in the

(29:45):
country last year, missed the NCAAtournament, missed the nit had Liam McNeely
de commit, and that's when thismeeting was held in early April. Since
then, things have improved quite drasticallyacross the board, and now after adding

(30:08):
six players via the portal and accordingto most analysts beliefs had one of the
best transfer portal seasons in all ofcollege basketball, Indiana has a preseason top
fifteen designation going into this upcoming year. Now, Mike Woodson, to me,

(30:33):
came out looking real good as aresult of this podcast yesterday. I
think a lot of folks listened tothe Hoosiah hysteric sided things and said wow.
Basically, in early April, MikeWoodson told off the hysterics, whether
you like it or not, andthen absolutely cooked. As it relates to

(30:56):
how he handled the transfer portal acrossApril May June to get us to where
we are today. Let me startwith this, Matt. We'll we'll give
a lot of compliments to Woodson.We'll have some things to say as well
as it relates to maybe how wewould handle it differently. Does it bother
you at all that Woodson, afterreally rough season want to schedule a meeting

(31:22):
with an nil collective two I guess, have like a confrontation or a serious,
stern meeting with the hysteria. Doesthat bother you that that was sort
of on the top of Woodson's mindcoming out of how tough last season was.

(31:42):
Bothering us on top of his mind? No, not really meaning me
neither. Because One, there's likea down period for coaches, like there's
a there's a period between where you'reonly recruiting, like you're not coaching anymore,
you can't you can't coach the kidsanymore. And then also you're not

(32:08):
you don't really have a full timejob at this point other than focusing on
recruiting, right and with that,obviously it's not a twenty four to seven
thing, So you know, Ihe has time to fix something. You
have to do some housekeeping, right, Yeah, because after the season,

(32:32):
right, it's basically, you know, it's in March, so you got
to think it's it's his spring cleaningtime. Like it's it's about time for
him to kind of put things inorder that during the season when you're coaching
every single day and and you know, you're traveling around the country with the
kids and you know, the students, the athletes and and and working his

(32:53):
butt off. Honestly, as asa you know, college coach is just
an SAE job to have, bythe way, And so he decided to
you know, that was the righttime to do it, And clearly he
did it pretty quickly after the seasonended. So it was on the top
of his mind at least a littlebit during the season, which is not

(33:17):
really something as a podcast that youwant to have happened, is that your
head basketball coaches thinking about ways toreprimand you after during the season, right,
And Like, clearly it was atsome point a slight distraction to not
only just Woodson, but I probablythe players. And I guess that's where

(33:45):
it leads me to say that I'mhappy Woodson had this talk. Yeah,
I don't like the way he wentabout doing it from Eric's perspective obviously,
because we don't have we don't haveWoodson's perspective of I don't like the way
it came about, but I dolike that Woodson as the head coach and
the leader of the program, waskind of like, hey, cut that

(34:09):
out or get out like you pickyou pick a side like either on on
my side and I'm gonna give youa slap on the wrist and you're gonna
stay over here, or you canjust you know, freak off. And
and that's I think that's the sidethat Eric and and and Ward chose,

(34:31):
which was the freak off side,which is a little bit said, I
am going to miss their content.I mean, I'm assuming they're probably still
going to talk about basketball. It'sjust they're not going to be giving money,
which also still sucks because then youlose at least a little bit of
income for the players, right becauseit's not hurting Woodson financially, that the

(34:55):
one they're not giving money. Yeah. The one thing I'll say is I
feel like winning winning helps everything.And you know, if Indiana goes fifteen
and three in Big Ten play andwins the league, which again, I
don't even think that's necessary, butif that happens, like everyone will be

(35:15):
had across the board. But let'stalk about the big quote, Matt,
Like, there was a big linein this podcast, and I think there
is the truncated version if you don'twant to listen to the whole hour and
to have podcast that's available. Likethe one minute that really stood out is
when Mike Woodson said the following withScott Dolson, H and Eric both in

(35:39):
the room. Allegedly, Woodson said, as long as he's here, referring
to Scott Dolson, or I'm gonnasay that. I'm gonna say that with
him here, referring to Scott Dolson. Woodson said, I'm going to be
the head coach here as long asI say so. I'm gonna be the

(35:59):
head coat oh here, as longas I say so. And for me,
it took me by surprise initially hearingyou know again, you know,
was that a mischaracterization by by Eric? I don't know, but I'm gonna
take that pound for pound. I'mgonna basically take that as if it is

(36:22):
real, and I think it isreal because you and I have had this
conversation for several months now, especiallyin the wake of mcneely's decommitment a rough
season last year for the basketball team. You and I have asked a question

(36:42):
before, like who who is thevoice of leadership as it relates to eye
you men's basketball, because Tom Creane, even over the last few months,
has appeared on podcasts where he saidthat the booster of the donors had a
lot to do with my departure fromIndiana or maybe, you know, sort

(37:07):
of tarnishing his time his experience atIndiana. Look, from both of our
perspectives, we're looking at is itScott Dolson, is it Pam Witten?
Is it nil contributors? Is itthe fan base? Is it the players?
I mean who's in charge? Andhearing that yesterday gave me the answer.

(37:32):
That's the answer. And look,Mike Woodson has his faults, Mike
Woodson has his flaws, but thatdoesn't matter. I think for a few
years now, if not even longer, the fan base has been curious as
far as who is in charge ofIU men's basketball. And if it's true

(37:54):
that Woodson in a room at ScottDolson and a big NIL voice, if
Witson said I'm going to be thehead coach here. As long as I
say so that's true. That tellsme exactly what I've needed to hear.
And I don't I don't know ifthat's good. But at the end of
the day, like every organization,every team, every whatever, needs a

(38:20):
clear cut leading voice, leading figure, and thinking about Scott Dolson. Look,
he's on the he's on the NCAABaseball selection committee. He's been in
charge with a lot of facility focusedstuff. He's in charge of making sure
the athletics department is profitable. He'sin charge of making sure that I shouldn't
say profitable, bringing in more moneythan it's losing. He's in charge of

(38:45):
he's in charge of TV deals.He's in charge of hiring Kurt Signetti.
He's in charge of making sure thefootball program gets up and right. Like,
there's a lot on Scott. ScottDolson's played as the athletic director.
As far as men's basketball, MikeWoodson is the guy. And you know
what, a couple of years agohe got this team to a four seed.
He was the he was he wasa top top three finisher in the

(39:09):
Big Ten regular season. He turnedout Trace Jackson Davis into a very good
NBA player, better than expected.He's gonna turn Khalil wear into a first
round pick. He gets the peopleto Assembly Hall. He's gotta win more,
no question about it. He's gotto win more. But Matt Mike
Woodson is the is the is thevoice of leadership. He is the he

(39:35):
is the guy in charge. Asit relates to IU men's basketball. Am
I looking too deep into a commenthere or is that something that you heard
and you were like, yeah,I kind of see it the same way.
Also, I saw it the sameway until I had a second thought
about it right before we got onthe podcast, and I'm actually gonna give

(39:55):
you a different perspective. I think, like, obviously, the the quote
from Woodson means that he is thego to on basketball, and look,
that makes sense. I don't thinkhe's being dramatic, but I also don't

(40:17):
think he literally means that he's goingto be the basketball coach until he doesn't
want to, because he said,I will be here coaching basketball as long
as he's here, which tells methat the job with him in the room

(40:37):
when Dolson Dolson's not going to fireWoodson is what that tells me, right,
But that doesn't mean Dolson can't getfired. That's what that tells me.
And that means that as long aswe keep the same athletic director,
that Dolson's not going to budget onthis and neither is Woodson. But that
doesn't mean that a new athletic directorcome in and kick him out. That's

(41:01):
what I took from that. Idid not think that because I I think
and what I expect is true.If you get rid of Woodson, I
think you also have to get ridof Dolson, because I think if you
look at it this way, Dolson'sbig dick swing and hire was to go

(41:22):
get Woodson, like that was thethat was the shot in the dark.
No one liked it. He couldhave gone after more experienced coaches. He
could have gone after guys like BrucePearl or insert anybody else, Like I'm
just bringing up Bruce Pearl because hewas bron during the season. But they
could have gone after a lot ofdifferent coaches. Then said they went with

(41:42):
Woodson right after the Archie Miller era, and Woodson was an unproven college coach.
He caught you obviously, I won'teven explaining this, you guys.
I think I think the big mayberetaining retaining Woodson more so than hiring him.
That maybe that maybe sound you know, either or either or works because
probably probably both, Yeah, both, yeah, because I think hiring him

(42:06):
was the onus is on Dolson,not Woodson. Woodson is the one that's
offered the job. Dolson was theone that went to like a bunker and
came out with Woodson as the headcoach. If I remember the story correctly,
like Dolson locked himself in a basementfor like a week and went crazy
trying to get a new basketball coachin and UH ended up with Mike Woodson,

(42:27):
and I believe he was the onlyone that really interviewed for a job
outside of them calling Brad Stevens andasking Brad Stevens if he wanted to come
back and him being like, no, I like Duncan donuts and winning NBA
championships, so you know, IBrad Stevens shout out to UH that Indiana,
who's your great winning an NBA championshipone of the best. There's two

(42:51):
podcasts in a row. You've broughtthat up. That's that's two in a
row. The third third time I'mleaving the barnyard. Barnyard basketball is running
the NBA. Now, the Cornfieldsand what Wabash and Jeffersonville and all that
they're running. They're running the NBA. Shout out, Shout out, Indiana,

(43:13):
baby, it's true. It's actuallytrue. Yeah. Anyways, back
back back to my back to mypoint, which was that it's it's Dolson
and Woodson or or it's Dolson inWoodson staying or they're both leaving. And
that's what I like from. CanI tell you two things, one of

(43:37):
which has to be true, oneof which has to be true. Okay,
So if I got my timeline right, this meeting between Hysterics and Woodson
a Dulcin happened in early April andthen Indiana freaking cooked in portal season.
Okay, so one of two thingshas to be true. Either who's your

(44:00):
hysterics is still contributing nil or nilis perfectly fine without who's your hysterics contribution?
Isn't that right? I think it'scompletely based on this summer, like
in one of those two, andI don't care which side it is,

(44:21):
but like, if anyone's really concernedabout the long term health of IU basketball
coming out of this podcast that wasreleased yesterday. My take is that there
is nothing you need to be worriedabout as it relates to NIL, because
either Hysterics are still contributing NIL orNIL is just fine without them. So

(44:44):
I don't know which it is.I don't care. All I care about
is IU men's basketball. And thetruth of the matter is if Indiana went
out and added Umar Balo and CanaanCarlisle and Lou Goody and others, Myles
Rice, no matter what the longterm health we are like, we are

(45:14):
what it like, whatever you know, we either way, the health of
Indiana basketball and Indiana men's basketball shouldbe fine out. What I was happy
to hear, honestly is that theHysterics will still be involved in supporting other
programs because we know that when IUwomen's basketball does well, everyone loves to

(45:39):
follow their program, and the men'ssoccer team does well. Same thing when
baseball, softball, volleyball. Wejust had baseball and softball the NCAA tournament.
It was a must musty event.Volleyball is gonna make it sooner than
later, Like when when when theyhave good years, when they have support,

(46:00):
they do well, people pay attention. So I really really like seeing
that piece of it. But asfar as the long term health of men's
basketball, from an NIL standpoint,I don't have any concerns. I mean,
Matt, I don't know if I'moversimplifying it, but from an NIL
standpoint, Indiana has emerged as oneof the best programs in the country.

(46:23):
Now. They gotta win games still, But do you have any concerns about
nil at IU men's basketball coming outof what you heard in this podcast yesterday.
I don't think that Woodson would havehad such a harsh tone if he
wasn't so secure in knowing that theywould have been fine without hysterics, and

(46:49):
so yeah, coming out of thatpodcast today, I know, to me
it was like, Op, theprogram's perfectly fine. And I think that's
true to an extent. I thinkWoodson was like, either you shut up
or I don't need your money becauseI can go find money elsewhere. That's
not going to be hyper critical withme, right, and uh, I

(47:12):
think we saw the result from that. They saw the results of that,
like and you know, I appliedWard and Eric for mm hmm doing what
they did and continuing to do so, by the way, because they're going
to continue giving. That's the thingexactly. But the men's basketball program is

(47:37):
perfectly fine without them sending money eitherway. Yeah, And like I would,
I would just make make a point, like for all of you to
like go out and burn hysterics atthe stake. Don't do that because like
Sydney Parrish, the face of thewomen's basketball team now maybe in conjunction with
the Arden Arizona like they have voicedtheir support for his like, don't don't

(48:00):
burn these guys at the state,Like, that's not worth it, It's
not productive. Now, you canhave an opinion, you can have focused
on men's basketball, but don't dothat. I just wanted to butt it
as far as that, yeah,because it's hurting other programs and people that
don't get as much funding as themen's basketball program does. Like and this

(48:20):
comes full circle back to the wholewhat we started this conversation on, which
was like who's in charge of theprogram? Yeah, right, For a
long time it was donors, right, Yep, I think you're right.
I agree, And I think Creanhad trouble with the politics on the other
end, people not wanting to donate, you know, at time not to

(48:45):
nil, but to the actual athleticdepartment to help Crean up facilities and fix
the program and whatever, because fromwhat I've heard, Tom Crean was at
times a pain in the butt towork with, right And and I'm pretty
sure that some of the Trump boardof trustees are also and not just board

(49:07):
of trustees, but the donors arealso pains in the butts themselves. And
so you had a bit of aclash of egos, right, And I'm
pretty sure this a similar thing happenedwith Archie Miller. To me, Woodson
has taken debt situation and for betteror worse, controlled it right and and

(49:31):
and has in him Yeah, accordingto him, he's the guy, which
to me gives me a lot ofconfidence in Woodson but also makes me think
that he has done an amount ofgood for the program that we could never

(49:53):
repay him because if this had beena problem under the previous two head coaches,
and then for him to come inand fix the problem right, and
fix the issue within the power structureof the basketball program and the hierarchy and
make it what it's supposed to be, right, that's something that we can

(50:17):
ever even if let's say he getslike it doesn't even make the instead a
tournament this year, he gets Gulsonfired. We still have to thank him
for that, right at the endof the day, because the people that
are with the players every single dayand work with them and have their best
interests in mind, and honestly whosejob rides on them doing well, should

(50:40):
be the people making the decisions withinthe basketball program and not some people who
are alumni or grew up fans thathave a little bit of money from MA
and PA that they want to throwaround or you know, that they've made
themselves or whatever. But so theother people with the giant pocketbook that want
to, you'll make them bottomless pitsof money that they want to, you

(51:04):
know, feel like they run thisteam, that they own the success of
the team because they gave money.That's not necessarily how you don't want to.
You can take partial credit. Andthat's what I was about to say,
is that I'm pretty sure Ward andEric can take partial credit for for
the for Woodson taking a nice kickin the ass and going and and upping

(51:29):
his his nil recruitment game, andand and portal recruitment game, and getting
us one of the best portal classesin the country. I would be surprised
if Woodson didn't take it a littlebit personal. So yeah, also shout
out to Liam mcney for doing thattoo. Yeah, there's exactly there's probably
some overlap there, some over laughs. Well, yeah, i'd be I'd

(51:52):
be surprised if Woodson didn't take alittle bit of the conversation him and Eric
had personally and didn't go out andand be like, I'll show you like
just a little bit. I'm notsaying competitive, saying that like a good
ten percent of his brain was likeI can't wait to share this guy.

(52:12):
What more than without your help?Yeah, it might be more than that.
But you know, they can takepartial credit if the season goes really
well. They can't for spurning Woodsonon even just a little bit more than
maybe he normally would have in thesituation. I'm not saying that we wouldn't
have gotten this, uh, youknow, recruitment class anyways, you know,

(52:37):
irregardless of whether Eric and Ward pisspissed him off to no end,
but you know, I it certainlyhelped. So, you know, if
that's the last thing that the Hystericsdo with the men's basketball program, they
went out on a nice bang,So thank you. Uh yeah, if

(52:58):
you if you can support i Umen's basketball, please do so. That's
all. That's all I gotta sayyeah or do that, yeah, exactly.
Lots lots to digest there. Let'stalk about Klilwear for a minute because
he's gonna get picked in the NBADraft tonight. But first the time for

(53:20):
a social media shout out, folks. If you haven't found us yet,
head over to Twitter, Facebook,YouTube. You can find us at Indiana
HQ as well as at the HoosierSound on Instagram. Matt, We're not
Indiana HQ, but what are we? Indiana dot HQ exactly. You can
find these guys gonna learn huh there, you can find us there, uh,

(53:44):
Matt. There's a lot of dramaaround IU men's basketball. But one
thing that will you nite us alland bring us together in a moment of
celebration is when later tonight, whichis Wednesday night in the US Thursday morning

(54:06):
in China. Khalil Where will getpicked in the first round of the twenty
twenty four NBA Draft. The sevenfoot center from North Little Rock, Arkansas,
who originally started his college career atOregon and then had an outstanding year
under Mike Woodson and the Indiana Hoosiers, where he averaged sixteen points a game,

(54:30):
ten rebounds a game, nine pointnine and one point nine blocks per
game while shooting forty three percent fromthree. Where we'll move on to the
NBA, and a lot of reportsas of late have come out saying that

(54:51):
Where has crushed his workouts. Helooks like somebody who should fit into the
NBA pretty quickly in a draft wherethey're maybe isn't a generational talent, Where
could really emerge as an underrated,unexpected sleeper as far as one of the
best contributors among the first round,among the first round picks, especially because

(55:14):
he's a little bit more refined thana lot of the eighteen to nineteen year
old that you're gonna get ear picktonight, Matt, as you look back
on Khalil, Where's ear at Indiana, Like what stood out to you and
how excited are you to see himget picked as far as the first round
of the NBA draft is concerned,Well, what stood out to me first

(55:35):
off was he was a talent thatIndiana hasn't seen a lot of and in
its history right like, I don'tknow how many seven footers have come through
the program they're able to shoot threesand do what he does on both ends
of the court. Not that many, right, It's it's he's just a

(55:55):
you know the Christoph Porzingis line,He's a unicorn, right, He's just
a guy that doesn't come around allthat often in basketball. Is just a
very rare, rare player. Andso that was fun to watch. And
then you know, I liked hisredemption story, like going from a guy
that didn't play a lot at Oregonand Woodson giving him the second chance and

(56:20):
then he being the best player formost of last year on the team.
Like, he was fun to watchand gave me a lot of joy watching
him play. It was frustrating too, but you know that was part of
the growth and maturity process for him, right, And it was very similar
to me. His season was verysimilar to the Hood Schafino season, where

(56:45):
it felt like he got much muchbetter and more confident as the season went
along, and his NBA draft prospectskept going up as the season went along,
similar to Hood Chaffino. And Ithink they're going to be very,
you know, taking very sickly inthe draft where you know they're going to
be taken in the late twenties.I think so or somewhere in the twenties,

(57:07):
Like I it's he he was,you know awesome, who's your and
and I love watching him play andI'm gonna miss him next year, but
I might not miss him that muchbecause the Miami Heat might take him.
So that would make me happy becausethey have Thomas Bryant and having Thomas Bryant

(57:28):
and Kloe Ware on the Heat,I have to get two jerseys. Now
who that would be? That wouldbe? I think I don't know if
you can call you can say richgetting richer, but I think you can
say the well off, the welloff getting richer. As that Miami always
Miami always develops their later draft picksbetter, Like if they have a number
one overall pick, they picked JusticeWinslow, but if they pick like further

(57:52):
on back in the draft, it'salways good. They always make them good.
Hero And I think where is likethe perfect fit next to Bam at
a bio Like I think those twocomplement each other so well, not only
offensively and defensively because then you havetwo rint protectors, but then Bam can

(58:13):
just go and switch on everybody andCallile doesn't need to do that so little
I U Kentucky diplomacy. Uh therewith with with BAM and Ware? Did
you throw up a little bit whenyou said that? Shout out to Evan
Orris, who is an IU sportsmedia along social and digital content publisher with

(58:38):
the NBA. Orris posted a videoyesterday of Khalil Ware sharing his experience playing
at Assembly Hall, and I wouldrecommend all of you go watch that.
We retweeted it over at Indiana HQ. Not really watching it to hear what
Wear has to say, but justlook at the smile on War's face when

(59:00):
he talks about Assembly All and IUmen's basketball. I know there's a lot
of cynicism right now as it relatesto players switching teams because of Nil because
they're just getting paid and this andthat. As it relates to Umarballo,

(59:22):
just do Marballo. I can't reallyspeak to anyone else. If you've seen
Trace Jackson Davis grow and develop inIndiana, if you seen Khalil War develop
in Indiana, and you have sightsof making the NBA and being productive in
the NBA. Mike Woodson, Indianaseems like a really good spot because not
only does Woodson get improvement and productionout of his bigs, but it looks

(59:47):
like all the players really do reflecton their time positively as it relates to
those guys that we just talked aboutthe time that they spend with Mike Woodson
are playing for the Indiana Reachers.So all I'm saying is it's not perfect
at IU right now. They gottawin more games, but we're gonna watch
Khalil where get drafted, And thisI think kind of represents a fascinating tipping

(01:00:13):
point. I don't know if that'stoo strong, but like if Trace Jackson
Davis goes to the NBA and outperformshis expectation, outperforms his pick value,
and then Khalil whare I don't know, he gets picked twentieth and he does
the same, and maybe Jalen Huchafinobounces back next seat like all of a
sudden. Mike Woodson's track record ofgetting guys to the NBA and having them

(01:00:35):
play well in the NBA is somethingthat he can very much use in the
recruiting arsenal as he goes out andtries to add players in the portal or
ad players that are coming out ofhigh school. I'm very much looking to
see in collel I'm very much lookingforward to Seingkhlil War playing the NBA.
The one thing I have to addto this is that the development and the

(01:00:57):
coaching you get in the NBA inthe NBA is un pressed, It's unparallel.
So I think a lot of peoplebefore the NBA draft say, well,
is the guy ready to play?Is the guy ready to go?
Just yet? This guy ready?Can you use another season in college basketball?
A lot of guys probably could useanother season in college basketball. But
don't lose this as you think aboutthe pros. The coaching and the level

(01:01:22):
of attention and the attention to detailand the adaptation to the pro game,
whether it's at the G League orthe NBA level, is better than anything
you get anywhere else, Because thinkabout it, these aren't student athletes anymore.
They don't have to worry about class, they don't have to worry about
NCAA restrictions on practice time, andI'm playing time like, Okay, there's

(01:01:45):
a player's association. But when it'sall said and done, you go out
and you get to learn from GregPopovich, you get to learn from Steve
Kerr, you get to learn fromSpolstra, you get to learn from somebody
who is at the very very topof their profession. It really doesn't get
better than that. And so youknow, look, Mike Woodson's a head

(01:02:07):
coach at IU for most of thetime he was an assistant in the NBA,
And I think that goes to showkind of how strong the skill level
is, the coaching level is asfar as the NBA is concerned. And
if you stink, you get firedpretty quickly, shout out Dartingham. So
you know, that's kind of it'skind of where it's kind of where things

(01:02:30):
are at, Matt. A lotof stuff that we discussed today will probably
piss some people off. Others mayagree with some of the points that we've
made it and that we've discussed today. What are your final thoughts as we
wind down here on this Wednesday,Anything crosses your mind, anything that you
weren't able to get out on thetable. The floor is yours. Any
final thoughts. Oh, it's justbeen a up and down week for us

(01:02:53):
podcasters. Yeah, you know,some of us are getting fired from working
with the basketball team and others aregetting hired to be a basketball coach of
the Lakers. So podcaster is doingpretty well out here. No, I

(01:03:14):
I would say, I'm looking forwardto football starting soon. Dida Play Football
game comes out, you guys aregonna lose me. I will be not
living. I'll just be breathing andplaying that game for about a month,
two months, two months to openingday. That was crazy. That's that's

(01:03:42):
crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's it. Yeah, absolutely love
it. As far as I'm concerned, I think we got everything that we
wanted on the table. Indiana's gotto win games and as far as men's
basketball is concerned, so make sureyou do that. Oh. One thing
I didn't want to say, likeand this is this is really for something

(01:04:03):
for us to think about. Butreally, other other podcasts as well,
other websites like there are JJ redicku'sed Engagement Farming. Yesterday in his press
conference, he's like, oh,I came from the engagement farming industry something

(01:04:24):
of that sort. But it's true, Like yeah, twenty twenty four,
that's part of it. You're tryingto gain attention, You're trying to gain
interest, You're trying to gain engagementlike in general, like this isn't a
hysterics thing. Like in general,like there are consequences to those actions,

(01:04:44):
right, Like, you can't justbe engagement farming. You can't just be
looking for lights and retweets and commentsand shares and letting and on follows and
all this type of stuff and thenget upset when someone gets annoyed, right,
because that's the whole point. That'sthe whole point of farming. You
want to get everyone who hates whowho dislikes what you have to say or

(01:05:06):
write. You want to get everyonewho likes what you have to say and
right, you want to get thewhole spectrum. So when something doesn't go
your way, you can't get sensitive. And again it's not in stare,
it's just in general. Right foranyone who listens to this and they run
a podcast and or or or theyhave a website, doesn't have to be
related to EU basketball, Like,there are consequences to engagement engagement farming.

(01:05:30):
Be aware that someone will like we'vegotten in trouble with the men's basketball team
before, like we have, andit's okay, Like those are part of
the consequences, and we have aconversation or we exchange emails or whatever,
we figure it out. Like IndianHQ has gotten in trouble with Human's basketball
before, that's fine. It happens, it's part of the thing. But

(01:05:53):
like we don't like we didn't getoverly sensitive about it, and we didn't
sort of throw a fit. Wedidn't go crazy. So all I'm saying
is like, if you've made itthis far, I appreciate all of you
listening. If you're in the world, if you're in the engagement farming industry,
as JJ Reddick put it, understandthat there could very well be consequences

(01:06:16):
for your actions and you're gonna haveto address them head on. And however
you do that is up to you. The folks that about wraps it for
wraps it up for a three hundredand thirty at show the Who's Your Sound?
Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your support.
To hear more episodes like the oneyou heard today, be sure to follow
us at India and HQ or atthe Who's Your Sound to make sure you
don't miss any in the future.Can also go to our website indianahq dot

(01:06:39):
com to find it all in oneplace, but as always, thank you
for listening. Who's your nation?See you next time.