April 2, 2024 • 32 mins
The motorsports world attracts people from all walks of life. However, it’s not every day that a former rock star becomes a pioneer in the electrical vehicle space. Today on the Inside on the Inside Track, we have the honor of speaking with Rue Phillips, former guitarist for Black Sabbath and current President of EV training and implementation company SkillFusion. SkillFusion has been working tirelessly to improve the EV experience across the US and ensure that there is a reliable network of charging stations and more skilled Technicians.
In this episode, we were going to learn about how Rue went from the rock and roll world to building out the future EV infrastructure grid, and why the United State’s electrical workforce needs a serious update.
In this episode, we were going to learn about how Rue went from the rock and roll world to building out the future EV infrastructure grid, and why the United State’s electrical workforce needs a serious update.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Skill Fusion is actually working with the manufacturers the product,
so we're developing training centers. Our first one is going
to be in Alabama where it will have i mean
the devices around seventy eighty thousand dollars the DC fast chargers,
So we're working with them and saying we need if
(00:20):
you are going to have obligations for a ninety nine
percent up time with this product, you're going to need
to work with the technicians in the field.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The world around us is changing faster than ever before.
Ideas once only imagined in science fiction are becoming a reality.
Throughout the course of our amazing twenty three episode season,
we'll speak to some of the greatest minds in robotics
and artificial intelligence to discuss the groundbreaking work that's fueling
it all. I'm your host Ryan Marine joined me and
my co host Paul Mitchell, the president of the Indian
(00:57):
Autonomous Challenge, and see why we call this the Inside Track.
The motorsports world attracts people from all walks of life. However,
it's not every day that a former rock star becomes
a pioneer in the electric vehicle space. Today, on the
Inside Track, we have the honor of speaking with Rue Phillips,
former guitarist for Black Sabbath and current presidents of EV
(01:20):
tranding and implementation company Skill Fusion. Skilled Fusion has been
working tirelessly to improve the EV experience across the US
and ensure there is a reliable network of charging stations
and more skilled technicians. In this episode, we're going to
learn about how Rue went from the rock and roll
world to building up the future EV infrastructure grid and
(01:43):
why the United States electrical workforce needs a serious update.
It start at the very beginning. Your background is perhaps unique,
I think it's safe to say in the in the
EV realm, coming from rock and roll, although that really
(02:04):
wasn't the direction it looked like your life was going
to go. You grew up in a family working in
the electrical field, and I think maybe if they had
their drouthers, that's the direction you would have gone. Is
that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It is? Indeed so yes, industrial electrical family, contracted business,
and I was raised you know, when I was about
seven or eight out of crystal set. My uncle who
ran the business, he gave me an old television and
a schematic and it turned out to be a guitar
(02:36):
amplifier go figure, which would come in handy a little later.
But you know, in my teens we were working on
there were electric milk trucks. You know if you do
a Google on that, So we were working on the
EV chargers for these electric milk trucks, fleets of them.
So I thought nothing of it. Left the family business,
(03:00):
and eventually we toured the UK, did some work in Europe,
and came to the US and I played Hollywood and
someone was in the audience from Black Sabbath, and that's
another story. I kind of mophed over from an electrician
to playing with Black Sabbath.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, I think there'll be plenty of time to talk
about the EB side of things. Let's go into the
music career. How did you pursue this and what were
some of the highlights touring around first in Europe and
then ultimately in California.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Well, the UK was a little tough. This was back
in the day. Oh my gosh, Iron Maiden, Deaf Leopard
were you know, we were playing gigs in that same
circuit and I wanted to hit the big time. I
wanted to go to Hollywood, so we sold everything and
we came over here and just like, oh my gosh.
(03:57):
So we got all our equipment. We played the Whiskey
of Go Go, the Roxy, you know, all the famous clubs.
And when Black Sabbath saw me, it was about two
weeks after and he said, I've just left Sabbath, I'm
doing a first solo album. Would you like to come
(04:18):
in the studio for two years? It was a two
year project, and he said everyone's going to be famous
but you, which was like, does that mean I'm playing
with And there were there was Deep Purple, the Nags,
sliding of Family Stone, Oh my gosh, everyone who's anybody
(04:41):
came and played on this record. So I did the
two years, and because I did some writing with Ozzy Osbourne,
who was also on the album, I saw my own
record deal and we formed a band with two of
the kids from the Sons of Cream, Jack Bruce's son,
Ginger Baker's son went on tour and I'd had enough
(05:03):
at that time. And then I got morphed into the
electrical business, which is you.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Went back, you went back to your your maybe first
eleven it was you know, I mean you were in
the you were in the electrical business. You were just
in the electrical guitarist.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
There's still an amplifier, there's still you know, tubes and
electronics that you had.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
To look after.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Absolutely, it's still a c DC, another great band.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So how do you morphin back into the electrical business,
and especially with an eye on EV's right, because I
think if I got my timeline straight, we're talking about
the mid nineties, which was really when the first wave
of EV started to break on the scene, and you
found yourself a little niche right away.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, so you know, I'd almost put it behind me
in my electrical trade. But you know, when I decided
to jump off the crazy terrain before it hit the
brick wall, I figured, Okay, I'm going to be a
contractor just like my uncle. So I became an electrical
(06:14):
contractor where I hire electricians. So I formed a company.
I went to code school for about a year. And
this was a ninety four and at that time there
was a mandate in California. It was a zero emission
vehicle mandate, a ZEV mandate. Now, this was in nineteen
(06:37):
ninety four and basically the mandate stated that by twenty twelve,
ten percent of vehicles on the new vehicles in California
would be zero emission, which would either be electric with
you know, battery energy, or a fuel cell or natural
(06:57):
gas fuel cell. The obviously didn't take off, but the
electric vehicles were the focus. And at this time I
saw the RFP and it was by a multi billion
dollar company called Edison EV. I answered the RFP and
go figure. Because of my experience in England, they figured
(07:21):
who on Earth has got experience installing electric vehicle charges?
So I was shortlisted and from I think there were
two thousand applicants shortlisted to two hundred and I was
one of twenty to be awarded the network contractor. From
there I did installations in Los Angeles. Primarily my area
(07:46):
was in Orange County. But you know, in the beginning,
there weren't many customers buying electric vehicles. But this is
a funny story, because of my experience in the music business. Well,
all the movie stars wanted to get in and buy
an electric car. So Ellison EV gave me all the
movie stars to do the installations, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Did you so?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I mean that Era is kind of well known to
those in the EV industry. Is kind of the first
generation of the modern EV Edison Electric was a big player.
That was also around the same time as the E
V one from General Motors, right or did that come
That came a little bit later.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The e V one was about the same time. In fact,
I did. I installed the very first EV one in
Orange County in it was nineteen ninety four. It was
the first EV one that came came in publicly.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And that to you know, tie back to the place
where we're sitting right now in Indianapolis, and even the
Indianapolis Motor Speedway and motorsports industry may not seem like
it that there is a connection the EV one, the powertrain,
the battery system, which was at that point a series
(09:10):
of lead acid batteries, you know, connected together. They had
not yet transitioned to large format lithium. But that electric
powertrain was developed, design tested, engineered, tested, validated actually in
Indianapolis in a little kind of skunk works facility in
Castleton that at the time was the delco Leami Propulsion
(09:34):
division of General Motors. And this guy named Bill Wylam
that was he's passed away, but was one of the
one of my mentors, and somebody that's knowing well in
the industry here that kind of oversaw that project, so
that there was a ton of people that that were eating, sleeping,
(09:55):
breathing the EV industry and in the EV one in
the Anapolis area. And then you know, of course, uh,
they were launched in California, I think quite successfully at first,
before before general motors. You know, no pun intended.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
They pulled the plood, right, they crushed them all. Yeah,
it's funny you mentioned, Paul about the lead acid batteries
when we when we installed the chargers in the public
the private houses, the city's made us put these big
extractor fans to extract because they were worried about the
(10:33):
hydrogen filling up the garage and making.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, but you would know about the e V one firsthand,
if I'm not mistaken you you drove one for a time, right, rue.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yep, I had one. They had to scratch it from
my fingers when they pulled it back. But I used
to race down the Pacific Coast Highway and oh my gosh,
we we could burn. I mean, it would keep up
with the farr for a for a few seconds.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I was kind of launching the modern TV. But honestly,
I believe between the EV one and the Tesla model s.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Those were sort of.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You know, connected, although by a separate separation of maybe
twenty years, almost twenty years and more.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
But it was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know. And you mentioned that twenty years. I cannot understand,
Like I say, I had you could only lease these
EV ones and I had one and it was beautiful.
I mean literally that I couldn't fault it. And I
can't understand why it took twenty years to come out
for GM to come out with an EV which was
(11:41):
nowhere near as good.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well maybe I'm showing my youth here, but when I
was doing my prep for this, I was stunned to
learn that there was an EV in nineteen ninety four,
nineteen ninety five. And I know grew what you went
on to do, the company that you worked and that
you founded in a lot of the work that you've
done subsequently has been in the infrastructure side of the
EV industry. And I'm just thinking about trying to drive
(12:07):
an EV in nineteen ninety four nineteen ninety five with
the limited electrical charging infrastructure that would have existed. Was
that one of the big challenges then and then also
was that the inspiration for you to pursue that as
part of your career.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, you know part of my Well, the whole reason
for me getting signed as one of the network contractors
was to install ev infrastructure. And what's funny then there
was a big political you either for it or you
were against this mandate. So when the political regime changed,
(12:47):
I was paid to go and take out the charges
in the areas that I'd put them in. Now there's
a good story to this. So all charges just like
pull them out, costcos, pull them out, tap them off.
So I went on. I did some stuff with solar,
some big stuff with my company that I formed, and
(13:09):
there was another RFP R FPS all the time in
southern California, and this one was does anybody know anything
about electric vehicle infrastructure? Well, I've just been paid to
take put them in and take them out. So we
formed a company and that company was called ev Connect,
which is now one of the top five. So I
(13:32):
co formed that with my partner Jordan Rama, and we won,
we won a grant and from there, you know, it
just went crazy. At that particular time, I was my
entrepreneurial spirit came. I formed a solar company. I had
operations and maintenance company. That was True South that became
(13:55):
the largest operations and maintenance company in the US doing
mats on solar and electric vehicles. So yeah, it was
a good transition. You mentioned about there was no infrastructure,
but also there was no drivers back then, so you know,
the type of people that were driving electric vehicles had
(14:18):
straw hats, birken stocks, and solar on their roof.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So the infrastructure side of things is where when I
talk to people about EV's the biggest concerns you here,
Will I find a place to charge? How long will
it take to charge? Will the charging stations be reliable?
And it seems to me that there is a discrepancy
in the maturity of the technology from the car side
(14:43):
of things to the infrastructure side.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Would you agree with I would totally agree with you.
So you know, another funny story, I was in Phoenix, Arizona,
meeting a really big solar operations and maintenance company, really
really big And at the time, I was putting guys
on aeroplanes to flip breakers in soular PV and EV installations,
(15:09):
literally putting technicians and electricians on aeroplanes. And I had
this meeting in Phoenix and I had an uber ride
and obviously a couple of movements of my thumb to
get the bride, one movement to pay for it, and
I think it was about four five movements of the thumb.
And I was like fascinated by this. And inside the meeting,
(15:33):
this big solar company. They had, if you can imagine,
about twenty thirty screens, and it had Italy, Germany, Spain, France,
United Kingdom, the USA, and it had every solar system
all over the world. And something went wrong on one
of the plants and it turned red and they picked
up the phone and they says, hello, Henry, Okay, when
(15:57):
can you get it there? Well, called Jim, and I
thought to myself, that's nuts. Why can't it be automated?
This is a thirty million dollar asset in Minneapolis. Why
can't it connect to the technician? And the light went off,
and I wanted to form an uber esque technician, fully automated,
(16:20):
you know. I wanted the solar plant or the electric
vehicle charger to be able to connect to a technician
again with the minimum amount of human interaction. So I
formed a company called three sixty five Pronto and with
the task of being a fully automated service and maintenance
(16:42):
for electric vehicles and became very successful. We were, you know,
way ahead of our competition, and that company was acquired
by end Phase, but it left a big hole for
me because there was no workers. I've got the automation product,
we have the the inverters in the solar systems and
(17:07):
the charges, but there's no workers. There's a lack of labor.
So that's when skill Fusion, the idea for skill Fusion
came to do a fully automated platform that talks to
the fully automated O and M and service providers.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think that's where there's a good crossover between what
we're doing with ind Autonomous Challenge and what you're talking about.
I know, Paul, at the early days of IAC there
was a discussion about perhaps going the EV route, elected
ultimately for a variety of reasons not.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, yeah, I'll say a word about the EV component,
but I think really the connection that you're pointing out
is the natural movement towards the automation of the monitoring
and in some cases the decision making and the of
(18:00):
switches and the sort of operational efficiencies of charging infrastructure
and even the grid as AI starts to become more
more prevalent on the EV topic. I mean, you know,
we would have loved and frankly still love to have
the India Autonomous Challenge platform, you know, operate on an
(18:24):
electric vehicle. The issue is simply one of how many
challenges do you want to stack on top of each other?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Taking a fully autonomous rate taking a race car, removing
the person from the cockpit, and installing in that a
robot that can handle all of the operations at one
hundred and eighty miles an hour is its own engineering feat,
to put it lightly, And then coding the AI software
(18:52):
to pilot that vehicle, taking in the inputs from the
sensors and from the GPS and calculating the vehicle dynamics
and then putting out commands for.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Steering, breaking and throttle was its own challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And so on top of that, to try to have
a complex powertrain would have just been overload, I think
for us from an engineering and resource standpoint. But I'm
interested more in so as you were developing this company
that clearly recognized the inefficiencies of you know, having to
(19:33):
use twenty more like twentieth century methods of communication and
personnel deployment to manage these solar farms and moving it
into the twenty first century with more you know, data
driven analytics and more automation. Did you at that have
(19:57):
you considered or had you thought about the role that actually,
like generative AI could play in sitting on top of
that that software and that system and actually you know,
directing it all the way down to you know, determining
the flow of power, determining you know, when conditions are
(20:17):
safe or not safe, and making making decisions that normally
would require a human.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yes, you know, going back to the solar it was
all about error codes. We wanted the error codes from
the devices which had failed. The problem was was the
communication protocol between the invert manufacturers. They didn't want to
share it. For number one, you know, it was confidential,
(20:45):
you know, and proprietary, so you know, us we were
having information from hundreds of sites at Costco home depots,
but all they would give us is it's on, it's off.
So absolutely poor AI. Implementation of AI within the smart devices.
(21:11):
I see these in the renewable energy space, I see
all I see them as smart devices. I see an
inverter which charges you know, which works within a solar
for of all, takes system and an electric vehicle charger
as the same component. To me, they're smart devices that
talk to the cloud. The EV industry has got a
(21:36):
little bit more advanced with communications and protocols. I absolutely
see AI being implemented within that networking they are started
talking to. I think it's OCCP, it's a protocol that's
a common protocol that they're all using. We are using
(21:57):
AI in our training process virtual reality, and it's I'm
loving it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Wanted to make a comment about the interoperability deficit that
happens too often in the industry, whether it's automotive, whether
it's EV and electrical infrastructure, smart inverters and and autonomous
vehicles where we're playing, you know, interoperability is essential. It's
(22:27):
essential from a safety standpoint, it's essential from an efficiency
and cost reduction standpoint. I mean, the idea that inverter
manufacturers for solar you know, couldn't get behind, whether it's
sun spec or any of these other standards and all
fully commit is really just a you know, really a
(22:48):
market inefficiency. They'll argue that they're trying to protect their IPAK.
There's actually no ip in doing that, and so I
think that's a good example you point to it where
you know, had all of the inverters in that early
two thousands era all been required to have the same
communications protocol.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
You know, I think a lot of.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
The downtime that occurred on solar production, you know, wouldn't happen.
And every time there's there's a lack of production, whether
it's a solar panel that's not working right or a
wind turbine that isn't spinning, you know that that's that's
a step in the wrong direction in terms of renewable
energy generation, and it's usually replaced with more carbon intense
(23:33):
electrical generation.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So, you know, you get me on a soapbox.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
But I think, I think as we transition to things
like autonomous vehicles, standardization and automation is going to be essential.
And I think unfortunately too often we see the same
mistake made over and over. Right, how do we how
do we stop reinventing the same problem of trying to
(24:00):
develop everything in a closed loop system with this notion
that somehow that's you know, necessary for these companies to
succeed or make a profit.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, I think, first off, the skill fusion is actually
working with the manufacturers of the product. So we're developing
training centers. Our first one is going to be in
Alabama where it will have i mean the devices around
seventy eighty thousand dollars the DC fast charges. So we're
(24:32):
working with them and saying we need if you are
going to have obligations for a ninety nine percent up
time with this product, you're going to need to work
with the technicians in the field that are going to
be Originally guys what they in that this was going
back to the solar Their product doesn't break. That's what
(24:53):
they would say. They wouldn't give the airror codes because
they say, why do you need them? It doesn't break. Well,
that's not the case. It wasn't the case.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Everything breaks.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Everything breaks, especially with you know, you put basically, you
put in a computer in a parking lot in Arizona
where it's one hundred and thirty degrees ambient temperature and
expecting it to work ninety nine percent of the time,
It's not going to happen. So, you know, the for me,
(25:23):
it was a no brainer to actually gather some people together,
some talent, you know, put together a skill fusion and
address The problem of training is another one. You asked me, Paul,
what do we do? And I think training is another one.
Getting people. There's nine hundred thousand plus electricians licensed electricians
(25:49):
in the US. Most of them don't even know about
electric vehicle charges or smart devices in the electrical industry.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What are the areas that in the autonomous which has
been successful in terms of trying to drive the innovation.
It's not just that it's fun and that it's attractive,
but also it's a competitive environment and that competition breeds innovation.
So I'm curious when you're looking at this emerging technology
of EVS and trying to generate the next generation of technology,
(26:22):
but also people to work at the industry, where are
you seeing that competition coming from to help drive the
next wave of innovation?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Wow, the competition, because that's the one that throw me
when you were just talking at Well, first off, let
me kind of explain where it's going. And this is
not according to rue. This is what's happening now the
migration of battery energy storage systems and I'm talking residential
homes now, solar photo all take and electric vehicles now
(26:55):
up to now, those didn't talk with each other. You
had an inverter, you had an EV charger, and you
had a charger for your battery system. They could have
been all different manufacturers and they didn't talk with each
other because they were competition. You know. It's like, we're
not going to let our battery talk to the EV,
(27:15):
We're not going to let our EV charger talk to
the solar system. But now they're starting to be integrated
the smart homes. The competition between these manufacturers are saying, wow,
we could make a battery, we could make EV start
talking to our solar PV so I think that would compete.
(27:38):
It's still around with the technologies, but they're starting to
get it Ryan. They're starting to get the fact that
wait a minute, we'll probably sell more units if we
can integrate our software. Didn't Elon Musk open up his
proprietary platform, and he opened it up and he says,
(27:58):
go ahead, do what you and with it now.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
To wrap up the conversation, one theme that stands out
to me, from quitting your family's electrical business to go
be a rock and roll guitarist to getting out of
the music industry and pursuing evs in the mid nineteen
nineties all the way up to what you're doing today.
You're not afraid to take a risk or to argue.
(28:21):
And I think it's true of the indian Autonomous Challenge,
you know, the first the first event was super high profile.
It happened at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the most famous
racetrack in the world, and there comes some attention with that.
But it is important as you pursue what's next, to
be able to and be willing to take some of
these risks.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Right absolutely. I think you know, life is about risk.
But if you follow your dreams as I did when
I when I came to America, and what was you know,
fantastic for me that in the US you can be
whoever you want to be. You know, you don't in
(29:02):
the UK, with there is kind of like a hierarchy.
If you're born here, you're never going to be having
dinner with the queen, you know, and no matter how
much money you've got, you won't get into that aristocracy component.
Right here in the US, anybody can be a president,
(29:23):
you know. So going back to being an entrepreneur, yeah,
there's risk, but if I believe if you do something
with a passion first and foremost, you show up, you
will succeed. Of course, there's the eight thousand minimum hour
requirement to do it, you know. But yeah, risks. But
(29:46):
like I say, I was lucky that I picked the
renewable energy space which was advancing in technology, you know.
I mean, solar panels are far more advanced now and reliable,
as are EV charges. So I picked the right industry
to go and put a lot of risk and the
passion in that RYO.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And all because you've worked on electric milk delivery vehicles.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Absolutely, all because I've worked on DC charges for electric vehicle.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Well, we're The next big risk that we're going to
be taking is two of our teams are going to
compete in a hill climb competition as part of the
Goodwood Festival of Speed in July in your home country
of the UK.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Have you ever been to Goodwood? Are you familiar with
the event?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
What area is it? Northern England?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
No, Goodwood is just outside of London, on the grounds
of I think the Duke of Goodwood, and for many
years they've held a big event called the Festival of
Speed with some two hundred thousand spectators that come across
several days and there's a road that runs through the
property of the Duke of Goodwood that is turned into
(31:02):
a hill climb challenge and all sorts of cars and
race cars and even usually an F one team will
show up and and run up this hill. And so
we're going to bring two of our teams are going
to race the hill climb over those three days with
the autonomous vehicles and try to set a.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's pretty awesome. If I'm in the UK at the time,
I'll hunt.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
You got to come check it out.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Absolutely, we can go for some for some wonderful uh
uh you know UK cuisine. Maybe that that was another
thing that southern California had is probably better food than
the than than.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Growing up in the UK.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm a fan of fish and chips.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Yeah, that's true. Everyone likes fish and chips.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Rue, it's been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much
for the time and for the insight. Can't wait to
see what you have in store.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Thank you, Ryan Paul, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Thanks, thank you, take.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Care, thanks for joining us this week. On the inside Track.
That was Rue Phillips, former Black Sabbath guitarist and co
founder of Skill Fusion, telling us what the future of
personal ev ownership and service might look like. I'm your host,
Ryan Marine. Give us a follow on social media and
(32:23):
join us next time to hear more amazing stories from
the world of autonomous racing and vehicles.
Skill Fusion is actually working with the manufacturers the product,
so we're developing training centers. Our first one is going
to be in Alabama where it will have i mean
the devices around seventy eighty thousand dollars the DC fast chargers,
So we're working with them and saying we need if
(00:20):
you are going to have obligations for a ninety nine
percent up time with this product, you're going to need
to work with the technicians in the field.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The world around us is changing faster than ever before.
Ideas once only imagined in science fiction are becoming a reality.
Throughout the course of our amazing twenty three episode season,
we'll speak to some of the greatest minds in robotics
and artificial intelligence to discuss the groundbreaking work that's fueling
it all. I'm your host Ryan Marine joined me and
my co host Paul Mitchell, the president of the Indian
(00:57):
Autonomous Challenge, and see why we call this the Inside Track.
The motorsports world attracts people from all walks of life. However,
it's not every day that a former rock star becomes
a pioneer in the electric vehicle space. Today, on the
Inside Track, we have the honor of speaking with Rue Phillips,
former guitarist for Black Sabbath and current presidents of EV
(01:20):
tranding and implementation company Skill Fusion. Skilled Fusion has been
working tirelessly to improve the EV experience across the US
and ensure there is a reliable network of charging stations
and more skilled technicians. In this episode, we're going to
learn about how Rue went from the rock and roll
world to building up the future EV infrastructure grid and
(01:43):
why the United States electrical workforce needs a serious update.
It start at the very beginning. Your background is perhaps unique,
I think it's safe to say in the in the
EV realm, coming from rock and roll, although that really
(02:04):
wasn't the direction it looked like your life was going
to go. You grew up in a family working in
the electrical field, and I think maybe if they had
their drouthers, that's the direction you would have gone. Is
that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It is? Indeed so yes, industrial electrical family, contracted business,
and I was raised you know, when I was about
seven or eight out of crystal set. My uncle who
ran the business, he gave me an old television and
a schematic and it turned out to be a guitar
(02:36):
amplifier go figure, which would come in handy a little later.
But you know, in my teens we were working on
there were electric milk trucks. You know if you do
a Google on that, So we were working on the
EV chargers for these electric milk trucks, fleets of them.
So I thought nothing of it. Left the family business,
(03:00):
and eventually we toured the UK, did some work in Europe,
and came to the US and I played Hollywood and
someone was in the audience from Black Sabbath, and that's
another story. I kind of mophed over from an electrician
to playing with Black Sabbath.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, I think there'll be plenty of time to talk
about the EB side of things. Let's go into the
music career. How did you pursue this and what were
some of the highlights touring around first in Europe and
then ultimately in California.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Well, the UK was a little tough. This was back
in the day. Oh my gosh, Iron Maiden, Deaf Leopard
were you know, we were playing gigs in that same
circuit and I wanted to hit the big time. I
wanted to go to Hollywood, so we sold everything and
we came over here and just like, oh my gosh.
(03:57):
So we got all our equipment. We played the Whiskey
of Go Go, the Roxy, you know, all the famous clubs.
And when Black Sabbath saw me, it was about two
weeks after and he said, I've just left Sabbath, I'm
doing a first solo album. Would you like to come
(04:18):
in the studio for two years? It was a two
year project, and he said everyone's going to be famous
but you, which was like, does that mean I'm playing
with And there were there was Deep Purple, the Nags,
sliding of Family Stone, Oh my gosh, everyone who's anybody
(04:41):
came and played on this record. So I did the
two years, and because I did some writing with Ozzy Osbourne,
who was also on the album, I saw my own
record deal and we formed a band with two of
the kids from the Sons of Cream, Jack Bruce's son,
Ginger Baker's son went on tour and I'd had enough
(05:03):
at that time. And then I got morphed into the
electrical business, which is you.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Went back, you went back to your your maybe first
eleven it was you know, I mean you were in
the you were in the electrical business. You were just
in the electrical guitarist.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
There's still an amplifier, there's still you know, tubes and
electronics that you had.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
To look after.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Absolutely, it's still a c DC, another great band.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
So how do you morphin back into the electrical business,
and especially with an eye on EV's right, because I
think if I got my timeline straight, we're talking about
the mid nineties, which was really when the first wave
of EV started to break on the scene, and you
found yourself a little niche right away.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, so you know, I'd almost put it behind me
in my electrical trade. But you know, when I decided
to jump off the crazy terrain before it hit the
brick wall, I figured, Okay, I'm going to be a
contractor just like my uncle. So I became an electrical
(06:14):
contractor where I hire electricians. So I formed a company.
I went to code school for about a year. And
this was a ninety four and at that time there
was a mandate in California. It was a zero emission
vehicle mandate, a ZEV mandate. Now, this was in nineteen
(06:37):
ninety four and basically the mandate stated that by twenty twelve,
ten percent of vehicles on the new vehicles in California
would be zero emission, which would either be electric with
you know, battery energy, or a fuel cell or natural
(06:57):
gas fuel cell. The obviously didn't take off, but the
electric vehicles were the focus. And at this time I
saw the RFP and it was by a multi billion
dollar company called Edison EV. I answered the RFP and
go figure. Because of my experience in England, they figured
(07:21):
who on Earth has got experience installing electric vehicle charges?
So I was shortlisted and from I think there were
two thousand applicants shortlisted to two hundred and I was
one of twenty to be awarded the network contractor. From
there I did installations in Los Angeles. Primarily my area
(07:46):
was in Orange County. But you know, in the beginning,
there weren't many customers buying electric vehicles. But this is
a funny story, because of my experience in the music business. Well,
all the movie stars wanted to get in and buy
an electric car. So Ellison EV gave me all the
movie stars to do the installations, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Did you so?
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I mean that Era is kind of well known to
those in the EV industry. Is kind of the first
generation of the modern EV Edison Electric was a big player.
That was also around the same time as the E
V one from General Motors, right or did that come
That came a little bit later.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The e V one was about the same time. In fact,
I did. I installed the very first EV one in
Orange County in it was nineteen ninety four. It was
the first EV one that came came in publicly.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And that to you know, tie back to the place
where we're sitting right now in Indianapolis, and even the
Indianapolis Motor Speedway and motorsports industry may not seem like
it that there is a connection the EV one, the powertrain,
the battery system, which was at that point a series
(09:10):
of lead acid batteries, you know, connected together. They had
not yet transitioned to large format lithium. But that electric
powertrain was developed, design tested, engineered, tested, validated actually in
Indianapolis in a little kind of skunk works facility in
Castleton that at the time was the delco Leami Propulsion
(09:34):
division of General Motors. And this guy named Bill Wylam
that was he's passed away, but was one of the
one of my mentors, and somebody that's knowing well in
the industry here that kind of oversaw that project, so
that there was a ton of people that that were eating, sleeping,
(09:55):
breathing the EV industry and in the EV one in
the Anapolis area. And then you know, of course, uh,
they were launched in California, I think quite successfully at first,
before before general motors. You know, no pun intended.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
They pulled the plood, right, they crushed them all. Yeah,
it's funny you mentioned, Paul about the lead acid batteries
when we when we installed the chargers in the public
the private houses, the city's made us put these big
extractor fans to extract because they were worried about the
(10:33):
hydrogen filling up the garage and making.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, but you would know about the e V one firsthand,
if I'm not mistaken you you drove one for a time, right, rue.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yep, I had one. They had to scratch it from
my fingers when they pulled it back. But I used
to race down the Pacific Coast Highway and oh my gosh,
we we could burn. I mean, it would keep up
with the farr for a for a few seconds.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I was kind of launching the modern TV. But honestly,
I believe between the EV one and the Tesla model s.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Those were sort of.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You know, connected, although by a separate separation of maybe
twenty years, almost twenty years and more.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
But it was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know. And you mentioned that twenty years. I cannot understand,
Like I say, I had you could only lease these
EV ones and I had one and it was beautiful.
I mean literally that I couldn't fault it. And I
can't understand why it took twenty years to come out
for GM to come out with an EV which was
(11:41):
nowhere near as good.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well maybe I'm showing my youth here, but when I
was doing my prep for this, I was stunned to
learn that there was an EV in nineteen ninety four,
nineteen ninety five. And I know grew what you went
on to do, the company that you worked and that
you founded in a lot of the work that you've
done subsequently has been in the infrastructure side of the
EV industry. And I'm just thinking about trying to drive
(12:07):
an EV in nineteen ninety four nineteen ninety five with
the limited electrical charging infrastructure that would have existed. Was
that one of the big challenges then and then also
was that the inspiration for you to pursue that as
part of your career.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, you know part of my Well, the whole reason
for me getting signed as one of the network contractors
was to install ev infrastructure. And what's funny then there
was a big political you either for it or you
were against this mandate. So when the political regime changed,
(12:47):
I was paid to go and take out the charges
in the areas that I'd put them in. Now there's
a good story to this. So all charges just like
pull them out, costcos, pull them out, tap them off.
So I went on. I did some stuff with solar,
some big stuff with my company that I formed, and
(13:09):
there was another RFP R FPS all the time in
southern California, and this one was does anybody know anything
about electric vehicle infrastructure? Well, I've just been paid to
take put them in and take them out. So we
formed a company and that company was called ev Connect,
which is now one of the top five. So I
(13:32):
co formed that with my partner Jordan Rama, and we won,
we won a grant and from there, you know, it
just went crazy. At that particular time, I was my
entrepreneurial spirit came. I formed a solar company. I had
operations and maintenance company. That was True South that became
(13:55):
the largest operations and maintenance company in the US doing
mats on solar and electric vehicles. So yeah, it was
a good transition. You mentioned about there was no infrastructure,
but also there was no drivers back then, so you know,
the type of people that were driving electric vehicles had
(14:18):
straw hats, birken stocks, and solar on their roof.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So the infrastructure side of things is where when I
talk to people about EV's the biggest concerns you here,
Will I find a place to charge? How long will
it take to charge? Will the charging stations be reliable?
And it seems to me that there is a discrepancy
in the maturity of the technology from the car side
(14:43):
of things to the infrastructure side.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Would you agree with I would totally agree with you.
So you know, another funny story, I was in Phoenix, Arizona,
meeting a really big solar operations and maintenance company, really
really big And at the time, I was putting guys
on aeroplanes to flip breakers in soular PV and EV installations,
(15:09):
literally putting technicians and electricians on aeroplanes. And I had
this meeting in Phoenix and I had an uber ride
and obviously a couple of movements of my thumb to
get the bride, one movement to pay for it, and
I think it was about four five movements of the thumb.
And I was like fascinated by this. And inside the meeting,
(15:33):
this big solar company. They had, if you can imagine,
about twenty thirty screens, and it had Italy, Germany, Spain, France,
United Kingdom, the USA, and it had every solar system
all over the world. And something went wrong on one
of the plants and it turned red and they picked
up the phone and they says, hello, Henry, Okay, when
(15:57):
can you get it there? Well, called Jim, and I
thought to myself, that's nuts. Why can't it be automated?
This is a thirty million dollar asset in Minneapolis. Why
can't it connect to the technician? And the light went off,
and I wanted to form an uber esque technician, fully automated,
(16:20):
you know. I wanted the solar plant or the electric
vehicle charger to be able to connect to a technician
again with the minimum amount of human interaction. So I
formed a company called three sixty five Pronto and with
the task of being a fully automated service and maintenance
(16:42):
for electric vehicles and became very successful. We were, you know,
way ahead of our competition, and that company was acquired
by end Phase, but it left a big hole for
me because there was no workers. I've got the automation product,
we have the the inverters in the solar systems and
(17:07):
the charges, but there's no workers. There's a lack of labor.
So that's when skill Fusion, the idea for skill Fusion
came to do a fully automated platform that talks to
the fully automated O and M and service providers.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think that's where there's a good crossover between what
we're doing with ind Autonomous Challenge and what you're talking about.
I know, Paul, at the early days of IAC there
was a discussion about perhaps going the EV route, elected
ultimately for a variety of reasons not.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Well, yeah, I'll say a word about the EV component,
but I think really the connection that you're pointing out
is the natural movement towards the automation of the monitoring
and in some cases the decision making and the of
(18:00):
switches and the sort of operational efficiencies of charging infrastructure
and even the grid as AI starts to become more
more prevalent on the EV topic. I mean, you know,
we would have loved and frankly still love to have
the India Autonomous Challenge platform, you know, operate on an
(18:24):
electric vehicle. The issue is simply one of how many
challenges do you want to stack on top of each other?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Taking a fully autonomous rate taking a race car, removing
the person from the cockpit, and installing in that a
robot that can handle all of the operations at one
hundred and eighty miles an hour is its own engineering feat,
to put it lightly, And then coding the AI software
(18:52):
to pilot that vehicle, taking in the inputs from the
sensors and from the GPS and calculating the vehicle dynamics
and then putting out commands for.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Steering, breaking and throttle was its own challenge.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
And so on top of that, to try to have
a complex powertrain would have just been overload, I think
for us from an engineering and resource standpoint. But I'm
interested more in so as you were developing this company
that clearly recognized the inefficiencies of you know, having to
(19:33):
use twenty more like twentieth century methods of communication and
personnel deployment to manage these solar farms and moving it
into the twenty first century with more you know, data
driven analytics and more automation. Did you at that have
(19:57):
you considered or had you thought about the role that actually,
like generative AI could play in sitting on top of
that that software and that system and actually you know,
directing it all the way down to you know, determining
the flow of power, determining you know, when conditions are
(20:17):
safe or not safe, and making making decisions that normally
would require a human.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yes, you know, going back to the solar it was
all about error codes. We wanted the error codes from
the devices which had failed. The problem was was the
communication protocol between the invert manufacturers. They didn't want to
share it. For number one, you know, it was confidential,
(20:45):
you know, and proprietary, so you know, us we were
having information from hundreds of sites at Costco home depots,
but all they would give us is it's on, it's off.
So absolutely poor AI. Implementation of AI within the smart devices.
(21:11):
I see these in the renewable energy space, I see
all I see them as smart devices. I see an
inverter which charges you know, which works within a solar
for of all, takes system and an electric vehicle charger
as the same component. To me, they're smart devices that
talk to the cloud. The EV industry has got a
(21:36):
little bit more advanced with communications and protocols. I absolutely
see AI being implemented within that networking they are started
talking to. I think it's OCCP, it's a protocol that's
a common protocol that they're all using. We are using
(21:57):
AI in our training process virtual reality, and it's I'm
loving it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Wanted to make a comment about the interoperability deficit that
happens too often in the industry, whether it's automotive, whether
it's EV and electrical infrastructure, smart inverters and and autonomous
vehicles where we're playing, you know, interoperability is essential. It's
(22:27):
essential from a safety standpoint, it's essential from an efficiency
and cost reduction standpoint. I mean, the idea that inverter
manufacturers for solar you know, couldn't get behind, whether it's
sun spec or any of these other standards and all
fully commit is really just a you know, really a
(22:48):
market inefficiency. They'll argue that they're trying to protect their IPAK.
There's actually no ip in doing that, and so I
think that's a good example you point to it where
you know, had all of the inverters in that early
two thousands era all been required to have the same
communications protocol.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
You know, I think a lot of.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
The downtime that occurred on solar production, you know, wouldn't happen.
And every time there's there's a lack of production, whether
it's a solar panel that's not working right or a
wind turbine that isn't spinning, you know that that's that's
a step in the wrong direction in terms of renewable
energy generation, and it's usually replaced with more carbon intense
(23:33):
electrical generation.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
So, you know, you get me on a soapbox.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
But I think, I think as we transition to things
like autonomous vehicles, standardization and automation is going to be essential.
And I think unfortunately too often we see the same
mistake made over and over. Right, how do we how
do we stop reinventing the same problem of trying to
(24:00):
develop everything in a closed loop system with this notion
that somehow that's you know, necessary for these companies to
succeed or make a profit.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, I think, first off, the skill fusion is actually
working with the manufacturers of the product. So we're developing
training centers. Our first one is going to be in
Alabama where it will have i mean the devices around
seventy eighty thousand dollars the DC fast charges. So we're
(24:32):
working with them and saying we need if you are
going to have obligations for a ninety nine percent up
time with this product, you're going to need to work
with the technicians in the field that are going to
be Originally guys what they in that this was going
back to the solar Their product doesn't break. That's what
(24:53):
they would say. They wouldn't give the airror codes because
they say, why do you need them? It doesn't break. Well,
that's not the case. It wasn't the case.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
Everything breaks.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Everything breaks, especially with you know, you put basically, you
put in a computer in a parking lot in Arizona
where it's one hundred and thirty degrees ambient temperature and
expecting it to work ninety nine percent of the time,
It's not going to happen. So, you know, the for me,
(25:23):
it was a no brainer to actually gather some people together,
some talent, you know, put together a skill fusion and
address The problem of training is another one. You asked me, Paul,
what do we do? And I think training is another one.
Getting people. There's nine hundred thousand plus electricians licensed electricians
(25:49):
in the US. Most of them don't even know about
electric vehicle charges or smart devices in the electrical industry.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
What are the areas that in the autonomous which has
been successful in terms of trying to drive the innovation.
It's not just that it's fun and that it's attractive,
but also it's a competitive environment and that competition breeds innovation.
So I'm curious when you're looking at this emerging technology
of EVS and trying to generate the next generation of technology,
(26:22):
but also people to work at the industry, where are
you seeing that competition coming from to help drive the
next wave of innovation?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Wow, the competition, because that's the one that throw me
when you were just talking at Well, first off, let
me kind of explain where it's going. And this is
not according to rue. This is what's happening now the
migration of battery energy storage systems and I'm talking residential
homes now, solar photo all take and electric vehicles now
(26:55):
up to now, those didn't talk with each other. You
had an inverter, you had an EV charger, and you
had a charger for your battery system. They could have
been all different manufacturers and they didn't talk with each
other because they were competition. You know. It's like, we're
not going to let our battery talk to the EV,
(27:15):
We're not going to let our EV charger talk to
the solar system. But now they're starting to be integrated
the smart homes. The competition between these manufacturers are saying, wow,
we could make a battery, we could make EV start
talking to our solar PV so I think that would compete.
(27:38):
It's still around with the technologies, but they're starting to
get it Ryan. They're starting to get the fact that
wait a minute, we'll probably sell more units if we
can integrate our software. Didn't Elon Musk open up his
proprietary platform, and he opened it up and he says,
(27:58):
go ahead, do what you and with it now.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
To wrap up the conversation, one theme that stands out
to me, from quitting your family's electrical business to go
be a rock and roll guitarist to getting out of
the music industry and pursuing evs in the mid nineteen
nineties all the way up to what you're doing today.
You're not afraid to take a risk or to argue.
(28:21):
And I think it's true of the indian Autonomous Challenge,
you know, the first the first event was super high profile.
It happened at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the most famous
racetrack in the world, and there comes some attention with that.
But it is important as you pursue what's next, to
be able to and be willing to take some of
these risks.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Right absolutely. I think you know, life is about risk.
But if you follow your dreams as I did when
I when I came to America, and what was you know,
fantastic for me that in the US you can be
whoever you want to be. You know, you don't in
(29:02):
the UK, with there is kind of like a hierarchy.
If you're born here, you're never going to be having
dinner with the queen, you know, and no matter how
much money you've got, you won't get into that aristocracy component.
Right here in the US, anybody can be a president,
(29:23):
you know. So going back to being an entrepreneur, yeah,
there's risk, but if I believe if you do something
with a passion first and foremost, you show up, you
will succeed. Of course, there's the eight thousand minimum hour
requirement to do it, you know. But yeah, risks. But
(29:46):
like I say, I was lucky that I picked the
renewable energy space which was advancing in technology, you know.
I mean, solar panels are far more advanced now and reliable,
as are EV charges. So I picked the right industry
to go and put a lot of risk and the
passion in that RYO.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And all because you've worked on electric milk delivery vehicles.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Absolutely, all because I've worked on DC charges for electric vehicle.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Well, we're The next big risk that we're going to
be taking is two of our teams are going to
compete in a hill climb competition as part of the
Goodwood Festival of Speed in July in your home country
of the UK.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Have you ever been to Goodwood? Are you familiar with
the event?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
What area is it? Northern England?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
No, Goodwood is just outside of London, on the grounds
of I think the Duke of Goodwood, and for many
years they've held a big event called the Festival of
Speed with some two hundred thousand spectators that come across
several days and there's a road that runs through the
property of the Duke of Goodwood that is turned into
(31:02):
a hill climb challenge and all sorts of cars and
race cars and even usually an F one team will
show up and and run up this hill. And so
we're going to bring two of our teams are going
to race the hill climb over those three days with
the autonomous vehicles and try to set a.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's pretty awesome. If I'm in the UK at the time,
I'll hunt.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
You got to come check it out.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Absolutely, we can go for some for some wonderful uh
uh you know UK cuisine. Maybe that that was another
thing that southern California had is probably better food than
the than than.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Growing up in the UK.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm a fan of fish and chips.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Yeah, that's true. Everyone likes fish and chips.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Rue, it's been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much
for the time and for the insight. Can't wait to
see what you have in store.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Thank you, Ryan Paul, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Thanks, thank you, take.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Care, thanks for joining us this week. On the inside Track.
That was Rue Phillips, former Black Sabbath guitarist and co
founder of Skill Fusion, telling us what the future of
personal ev ownership and service might look like. I'm your host,
Ryan Marine. Give us a follow on social media and
(32:23):
join us next time to hear more amazing stories from
the world of autonomous racing and vehicles.
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