January 7, 2023 • 28 mins
Welcome to the first episode of The Inside Track! Our host, Ryan Myrehn, chats with Paul Mitchell and Don Wettrick at the Indie Autonomous Headquarters. Today we will discuss the cutting-edge technology that inspired the Indie Autonomous Challenge, why college students who've never even driven a car before are drawn to Automotive Sports, and more importantly, Robots driving cars!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome to The Inside Track Our AIFuture, a podcast at the nexus of
AI emerging tech, sports and entertainment. I'm your host, Ryan Marine,
professional broadcaster and amateur tech enthusiast.Today, in our first episode, I'll
be introducing you to two people you'llbe hearing from quite a bit on this
show, Paul Mitchell, the presidentof the Indie Autonomous Challenge, and Don
(00:30):
Wetric, an educator and the CEOof the tech focused started Up Foundation.
On this first episode, we'll belearning a little bit more about their backgrounds,
what brought us together for this project, and what we'll be focusing on
in future episodes. We actually recordedthis first episode of the show at the
headquarters of the Indie Autonomous Challenge orIAC, a nonprofit organization that runs competitions
(00:54):
for full scale, fully autonomous racecars. I hope you enjoy this first
conversation with Don and Paul. Herewe are, for what is effectively episode
zero of The Inside Track Our AIFuture, in the spacious abode of the
(01:18):
Indie Autonomous Challenge here in downtown Indianapolis. Let's lay it all out. What
are we here to do? Paul? It is the first edition of this
show and We've got big plans forthings to come. So maybe we start
with the background, what gave riseto the idea, what is the genesis
of this and what do we hopeto accomplish? Yeah, sure, I
mean so, Indie Autonomous Challenge hasbeen going on now for a couple of
(01:41):
years and it's captivated a global audiencethat sees autonomous race cars I think is
more than just a form of motorsportsentertainment. They really see it as a
platform for engagement, for attracting talent, for a new way of entertaining.
And AI is so central to thesuccess of Indie Autonomous Challenge. These cars
(02:05):
are literally driven by an AI driveror an AI robot. And we know
that our future is going to includeAI. I think it's a given now
that that society is accepted that it'sgoing to be part of our lives.
So how can we use the storiesand the personalities and some of the partners
that are involved in Indie Autonomous Challengeto have a broader conversation about our future
(02:30):
and technology innovation and the role AIis going to play in that future.
Yeah, I'm seeing this giant emptycanvas. My jurisdiction obviously is education taught
for twenty plus years and really wantedto have our students take a look at
what the future is. Every timeI ask people, you know, why,
what is the purpose of schools toprepare kids for the future? What
(02:52):
is the future? A lot ofit's going to be involved in AI and
a lot of different tech, andso I'm really anxious to look at some
of the tech issues, but alsothe ethics of some of these things,
and you know, what is thisdoing for safety and what is it doing
for people? There's there's this We'regoing to look back on this time in
ten years from now and go,you were man, we were really worried
(03:12):
over a hot cup of nothing,or we didn't even consider all these things
that was going to affect and justindy Autonomous is just this awesome blake canvas
that in some ways, it's notin some ways. In a lot of
ways, it's an entertaining way ofsaying, that's what AI is, and
that's what okay, as opposed tojust a nerdy ted talk. Yeah,
(03:34):
and on to your point, weare at the precipice of something that has
not been done before, and thisis very much at the cutting edge of
something that appears to be the wayof the future. And so as you
prepare the young people in your roleas an educator, or you look to
the business Paul, the business side, where corporations are looking at AI and
looking at ways where this could bethe trajectory for them in a decade or
(03:58):
even less quite quite possibly, there'sso much that is unknown, and I
think that's almost at the heart ofwhat these conversations are going to be.
Yeah, I think, you know, exploring the unknown, but having technology,
innovation and the potential of that technologyto improve lives, to in some
cases save lives, to improve theeconomy is central to what we want to
(04:24):
try to figure out. Right.I think there's a lot of discussions today
around AI that are just binary likeshould it happen or shouldn't it happen?
Like is it good thing for robotsto exist or should we never create them
at all? Is it going toturn into the terminator? And I think
we've got to get past those conversationsand talk about what do we actually want
(04:46):
our AI future to look like?And so, you know, in the
India Autonomous Challenge, when we setout to say can some of the smartest
talent in the world from top researchuniversities. Code an AI driver to like
a human race car driver at theend Anaposto motor speedway. The thought process
there as well, if AI cando that and people see that, it
(05:09):
will wake them up to the potentialthat AI can do other amazing things.
Right, driving a race car maynot be all that important to the average
person, but when they see arace car being driven by a robot,
then they think, oh, well, maybe I can get into a vehicle
that's going one hundred miles an hourthat's being driven autonomously, or maybe I
will feel that a robot's capable ofmaking, you know, really strategic decisions
(05:32):
away a human would understress. Yeah, the car stands in for the AI
future or whatever the application might be. Well, we're gonna be talking a
lot about the future, I thinkon this show, but maybe we should
here for the first episode look tothe past a little bit and set the
background for how we got to thispoint. And Paul will begin with you,
what was it in your professional backgroundit ultimately led you to leading the
(05:56):
end autonomous challenge, which I suspectwas not something that was on the radar,
maybe even five years ago, definitelynot autonomous race cars. So my
background is in public policy. Iworked for a governor of the state of
Indiana, Mitch Daniels, for hisfirst term, and that's how I got
my starts as a right out ofgrad school and was always fascinated with the
(06:20):
intersection of technology, innovation, government, and industry and that you couldn't really
get breakthrough technologies into the market unlessyou had collaboration between industry, academia,
and government, and those three thingsdon't always work well together, right,
and the h sometimes have different definitionsof what innovation is or should be.
(06:43):
And so my career I've spent tryingto find projects that are compelling that bring
those three forces together, and IndieAutonomous Challenge has certainly been that and then
some Right. Basically, we setout to say, could could we attract
the best and brightest minds to focuson a technology challenge that would showcase Indiana
(07:09):
frankly and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway andthe history that we have in racing and
innovation, um, but but doso in a completely new and different way.
UM kind of getting back to thelegacy of the track and motorsport being
a proving ground for unseen technology.UM. And at the same time,
(07:30):
I think we realized there was therewas no way that industry on its own
was going to pay for that.UM. You know, you were going
to need universities to buy in andand cover their costs and invest their time
and resources. You were going toneed government, frankly in this case State
of Indiana, UH philanthropy to comein and help put in those first dollars
(07:54):
UM to get something, get somethinggoing. And UM. What we've achieved
within the Autonomous Challenge in those lasttwo plus years is moving from an idea
that you know, if we buildit, will they come? Will the
smart students come and code the AIrobots? Can you build an autonomous race
car that's capable of going one hundredninety miles an hour? Into really an
(08:18):
ongoing initiative where we're having competitions atplaces like cs We just held one at
Indianapolis Motor Speedway, We're going tobe holding one next summer in Italy and
monzam So finding these kind of iconicvenues where you can bring this technology forward
and use it as a platform tohave a whole set of conversations like the
(08:41):
ones we're having now. You pickeda heck of a time to do it,
when the whole world shut down therefor about a year or so,
right in the heart of when youwere trying to put all the right So,
you know, when we launched IndianAutonomous Challenge it as a prize competition.
We announced it in I think Octoberof twenty nineteen, but the deadline
(09:03):
for teams to sign up was Februaryof twenty twenty, and had we made
the deadline April of twenty twenty,we would have gotten a grand total of
zero teams to sign up. Sowe were lucky that frankly, teams were
already aware of it and we're startingto determine whether they could could take this
challenge on in twenty nineteen where theywere still campuses were still open, and
(09:24):
then by the end of February,I think we had something in the neighborhood
of as many as forty universities fromeleven plus countries, maybe fourteen countries.
I think originally that's signed up,and you know, they were all kind
of taking a leap for a leapof faith, saying okay, can I
code an AI algorithm that's going tobe capable of controlling a formula race car
(09:50):
at high speeds, which had neverbeen done, and we didn't know if
it was really even possible. Andwhen the pandemic hit, they fully technology
allowed us to prevail. We wereable to have teams work remotely, collaborating,
you know, on the Internet,using cloud computing, using the power
(10:13):
of being able to code from anywhere, to advance their technology until things opened
up a little bit. And bythe summer of twenty twenty one, you
know, when we were building theserace cars, they were actually able to
come together and start practicing on thetrack. Um. But you know,
there was it was touch and goas to whether this thing would ever get
off the ground. Um, basedon the pandemic. A whole lot more
(10:35):
could be said about that, ofcourse, But don I'm curious too about
your background in education and what bringsyou to your interest in pursuing AI as
this next frontier for education. Sure, as Paul is saying, this blending
of government and education, and butI think that was the challenge. So
(10:56):
yeah, I noticed you laughed whathe said. Well, because in a
lot of ways that's what we dowell. And we have found this middle
ground of being able to make thesethings work. And so long story,
make sure I taught for several yearstwenty one in the classroom in another five
doing this but getting students to seeproblems as opportunities is really what the macro
(11:20):
is of this. And so westarted a thing called Innovate within with the
Indian Economic Development Corp. And essentiallywe were challenging our students to one find
a problem you want to solve,but in a real way. So instead
of saying I want to start afood truck, tell me why you think
this area needs a food truck.So to think entrepreneurily was among our biggest
concerns. But along the way,we kept noticing that a lot of these
(11:43):
students wanted to have things that weretech enabled, which is honestly, like
almost everything. I don't care ifyou want to start a food truck,
it's going to be tech enabled.Or whether you want to start an event
for teens to do the thing inthe weekend, it's going to be tech
enabled. And so when Paul thenstarted, I see my ears perked up
because, like I said before,this is this is a canvas to start
(12:05):
painting on. So my my backgroundas an educator and running the state's innovation
program. This is a hand inhand fit. So going forward, what
do I haven't interested in bringing upopportunities for students, allowing them to have
a first hand look and then quitefrankly, and playing for the home team
the first Dibbs or students of Indiana. Now, mind you, like Paul
(12:28):
wouldn't say that, I'm going tosay that because he has teams internationally coming
here at the college level. Butwe see ourselves a feeder system. We
want to have our students who alreadyhave an interest in autosports anyway, and
not that AI is like this wholething isn't always going to be about just
autosports, but AI and autosports makeslost sense. And then lastly, what
I really get cited about is thisopportunity to blend talents. Right, So
(12:52):
Paul was talking about the coders,like there's a lot of a lot of
people that need to turn the wrenchesand have the skill set of the hard
skills of auto and auto maintenance andperformance. And like I'm looking over my
shoulder here and like I see allthese cars. There's tire technologies, there's
aerodynamics, there's carbon fiber, there'sall these things and powered by artificial intelligence
(13:16):
and inside and everything else. Youknow, that's a really good point I
think when I think about the goalsat a high level for India Autonomous Challenge,
which are to advance the state ofthe art of autonomous technology, to
create a bigger pipeline of talent workingin this space AI talent, and then
(13:39):
to win hearts and minds of thegeneral public to say, okay, well,
if a race car can go onehundred ninety miles an hour with no
driver, then maybe I can turnmy driver assist technology when I'm on the
highway and that might frankly save theirlife, you know, if in a
collision environment. But I think aboutthose those objectives that the first objective of
technology innovation and commercialization UM what Don'sreally talking about. I think of as
(14:05):
as um innovation and technology fusion,where it's it's not that you just need
a brilliant coder to write an AIalgorithm that that is that is perhaps the
most critical step for an autonomous robotto to operate, but you also need
the people that can can build therobot, that can put the hardware and
(14:28):
together to to make it, tomake it work and make it perceive its
surroundings, all the sensor systems UM. And then in the case of our
robots, because they're they're million dollarsplus race cars, UM, it's all
of the other you know, advancedtechnology that goes into automotive, right,
And so you know, the teamsUM are are our reflection of developing the
(14:50):
code that can control the car.But then I E. C. Also
engages and contracts with a small armyof other talented people who help build these
race cars, maintain them, supportthem UM. And it's that kind of
fusion of technology that makes this wholething, you know, really really work.
And we talk about this in educationlike this, I'm gonna say buzzwers
(15:13):
them not to be dismissive, butwe keep hearing in education we need to
get our kids to collaborate and communicateand coordinate. And you're like, and
all these things are found through this. So like the blending of talents,
the seeing what's out there and what'spossible. UM, there is no right
answer with the IC. It's thecontinual learning process. So I see this
(15:35):
as just one big massive I don'twant to be dismissive and say class or
learning experience. I see this isone big learning experience and and um,
you know credit well we call it. I often say it's like a um
robotics club on steroids, right,So you know we know that that that
the robotics clubs and the STEM communityin element schools through high schools have proven
(16:02):
to be an amazing way to awakentalent and to get collaboration to take place.
And we're really taking that and extendingit to call it the sort of
professional level where you're talking about inour case, you know, PhD students,
full time faculty researchers, and corporateR and D specialists who are frankly
(16:22):
coming together like a robotics team toadvance technologies. So those elements that are
so critical to you know, trainingthe future talent are absolutely essential for in
the autonomous challenge to work. Weneed to pause for a quick break.
(16:45):
But on the other side, we'lllearn why a college student who had never
driven a car was drawn to anautonomous driving competition, and then we'll ask
Paul and Don what part of ourAI future are you most excited to explore
on the show. Welcome back tothe Inside Track our AI Future. I'm
(17:22):
your host Ryan Marine. Before thebreak, we learned about Paul and Don
in their backgrounds. We also laidthe groundwork for conversations to come on the
show. Now we're learning about howstate of the art technology from multiple fields
combines to power the cars of theIndie Autonomous Challenge and what that means for
the future. On the technology side, the way we're successful is by partnering
(17:51):
with industry. In addition to thebrilliant minds from the universities who code the
driver, they create the driver.And by the way, the drivers have
different personalities. Not all AI codeis the same, right. One team's
code from poly Move in Italy isquite different than the code from Technical University
of Munich in terms of how itperceives its surroundings the risks is willing to
(18:12):
take. So the drivers have personalities. We'll have to cover that in a
whole separate discussion about AI personality.But to your point of the fusion of
technology, we have a lot ofdifferent corporate sponsors. The difference between our
corporate sponsors and maybe the way corporatesponsors work in most sporting events where it's
(18:34):
mostly about marketing and eyeballs and mediaattention, which we have absolutely, but
our sponsors actually provide the hardware andthe software that goes onto these cars.
So each car has inside the cockpitwhere where the human driver would normally sit,
somewhere in the neighborhood of seven toeight hundred thousand dollars worth of AI
(18:56):
technology, autonomous technology, light,our sensors, rate, our sensors,
optical, which is basically a fancyword for camera. You know, supercomputers,
drive by wire systems, GPS systems, and it's the best of the
best. I mean, it's technologyfrom top companies, you know, whether
it's Luminar, Continental, Cisco,AWS, Bridgestone, even as you talk
(19:18):
about tire technology. So everything isa tech enabled product. But the companies
realize that their specialization is in thatbespoke product. So Luminar makes a damn
good lightar we think one of thebest in the world, and it allows
our cars to compete, but youknow, they don't have the exposure necessarily
to what could cloud computing from acompany like AWS. Due to empower my
(19:44):
light R technology and our vehicles becomea platform for that technology fusion to take
place and hopefully find breakthroughs that allowthese companies to move these products into the
commercial realm more quickly. What Ikeep coming back to is the car is
the hook, right. The caris what gets people excited and interested,
whether that's from a corporate level orfrom the student level. I mean,
(20:07):
what student wouldn't want to get involvedin a car going one hundred and ninety
miles an hour around. So werethe most famous racetracks in the world,
even if they're not from a racingbackground, That chance to scratch that itch
and the excitement, the competitive aspect, it's more than just a laboratory because
there's the competition element too, right, Yeah, And again that collaboration,
(20:27):
communication, coordination kind of angle toit is that instead of just talking about
AI for AI sake, it doesit gamifies it. There's a competition there.
But I also think that there's thisin whoever came up with the term
inside track, it's such an uniqueopportunity to talk about what is the inside
track of this? What else isthis going to unlock? What is it
(20:48):
going to really uncover? And Ialso think that, like I just remember
when when Paul started i C.I started hearing from some race fans that
were immediately guarded and they were like, well, I love my favorite driver,
I don't want this, And thenthere was other people there's like,
wait a second, this could savetheir life. Right, So like this
learning curve of what IT is andwhat it isn't is I think it really
(21:11):
a part of the show, butit's also like this great opportunity to showcase
what AI is and maybe what itisn't. I think another thing that's important
as we think about our our AIfuture is who who are the who are
the stars? Who are the peoplethat were going to to look to to
(21:33):
define that that AI future and mmotorsport has always been about personalities and stars.
And yes, certainly the drivers havebeen central to that, right the
human drivers, Um, but raceteam owners you know, everyone knows Roger
(21:53):
Penski, everybody knows Michael Andrettie.Yes he was a racecar driver, but
he's probably more known as a asa as an owner. Um, you
know, Zach Brown. These areall people with Indiana roots. So I'm
giving them shout outs. But there'smany others you look for. You look
at need for Speed and the amazingimpact that's had on drawing people into motorsport.
(22:15):
You know, they don't just coverthe drivers, they're covering the story
around the teams and the technology,and so what what I'm excited about is
the fact that um Indi Autonomous Challengegives a platform for a kid from Pittsburgh
who you know, hasn't had theeasiest life. Um, who is brilliant,
(22:37):
I mean just absolutely a genius incomputer coding. To be on a
track at a place like Indianapolis MotorSpeedway or Monza UM or Las Vegas and
and be a star is to isto have that capability recognized and promoted and
held up. And you know thatis something it is really powerful. Um
(23:03):
we have we have team members whohave never driven a car before. Right,
there's one of the team members fromthe MIT PIT our w team stands
from. It's a combination of MIT, University of Pittsburgh, Rochester Institute for
Technology, and University of Waterloo.Want to make sure I get them all
right, um Nyana was her name. So she was on the team last
year, but she since graduated.She's not still on the team, although
(23:26):
she's still very engaged. And youknow, she always said she'd never driven
a car, she'd never a driver'slicense, you knew nothing about cars,
had no interest in cars. Whatwas she She was an ai H person,
right, she was interested in robotics, she was interested in engineering and
the idea of getting an engineering marvellike a race car to to do this.
(23:47):
Uh, it was was attractive toher, an attracted to it.
So I think in that sense towhat Don is saying, like, this
isn't just India Autonomous Challenge is notjust about the inside track and racing,
although is part of it, andthat was why we selected that name.
It's about, you know, howdo you have a discussion about the impact
(24:10):
that technology innovation is going to haveand who are the people that are going
to make that impact? And yeah, I'm just excited about like the broader
context here and to that point,yes, there will be some episodes that
we will focus in on safety andmotorsports and how AI can play a role
in that, but it's not specificallya motorsports show. That's not what we're
here to do. Again, thecar is the hook, or maybe in
(24:32):
this case it's the jumping off point. There are all kinds of different avenues
that we plan on discussing with industryleaders in lots of different fields, everything
from simulation to demonstrating AI and winninghearts and minds of people, and it
comes to AI. So there's abunch of different routes that we're looking to
go down. Is there something inparticular, don that has you excited about
(24:53):
what we've got coming. There's alot of things I've got don't mind what
he's excited about. Yeah, there'sthere's the future of entertainment period. I
mean headsets. I mean, Ilike the NBA has done a really good
job with you know, having afront row seat on your headset or um.
I can only imagine what UFC isabout to unleash. Sure, I'm
sure they're up to something, butthere's just you know, there's just a
(25:17):
lot there. I mean, we'realso this week when we're filming this,
uh you know chat GPT just launched, So right now everybody's talking about AI
and in some ways they're freaking out. And and again like there's gonna be
there's highs and lows, and we'regoing to figure it out along the way.
And so I think that we're recordingthis at the right time and in
some cases the right place. Imean, we're we're gonna be on different
locations, but you know, herewe set on someplace that doesn't look too
(25:41):
threatening. But you know, roboticcars are being you know, built,
and all the other things. Sofuture of entertainment, future of education,
future of racing, future of safety. Uh, these are all things that
I'm just geeked up about because whenI see all these, I see the
future of employment, the future opportunitiesfor students that may not know that this
is an optional. Like you're saying, a girl who doesn't like cars,
(26:04):
or shouldn't say it, doesn't likecars, A girl that doesn't drive,
don't care about cars? Right?Yeah? Is this is her thing?
Right? Yeah? So like,what a great time for students to learn
these things. And as we're phasingout certain things, you know, there's
gonna be some jobs that just aren'tthere anymore. And that's okay. These
things are the future and we mightas well start pointing at it. And
(26:26):
again, if it's our job aseducators exe prepare kids for the future,
we're going to unveil a lot ofthings that are of the future. So,
as mentioned, we are here indowntown Indianapolis at the headquarters of the
Indie Autonomous Challenge, and all ofthis is very conscious. Indianapolis is the
site pretty much in the shadows ofthe famed Indianapolis Motor Speedway. But what
(26:47):
makes this the ideal launching point forthe IAC and then what's to come in
the future. So many household productsand safety protocols and just experimental things came
out of the five hundred, Sowhat are perfect spot And we're going to
talk about that. I mean,I think we we we I know this
isn't a motorsports show, uh,at least purely a motorsports show, but
(27:07):
but we're going to talk about kindof what was the historical um origins of
motorsport and how are those um originsbeing kind of recreated not only by India
Autonomous Challenge, but by things likeFormulae and other other series that are out
there that are, you know,pushing the envelope of technology innovation in a
(27:32):
way that that you know, transcendslet's say, just the marketing and the
and the brands and the and theand the drivers and the storylines of motorsport,
which are also incredibly compelling. It'sright up my alley. Yeah,
I'm looking forward to that episode,that's for sure. Well, gentlemen,
I think that sets the stage nicely, really excited for What's to Come.
(27:57):
I think they were in the firstepisode. We've laid the foundations for what
is to Come. You'll be hearinga whole lot more from Paul and Don
in future episodes of the show.And if you'd like to learn more about
the Indie Autonomous Challenge and our timeat CES, head to Indie Autonomous Challenge
dot com. If you'd like toget in touch with the show, or
(28:17):
you have a suggestion for topics you'dlike to hear us cover, you can
get in touch with me directly atRyan at Indie Autonomous Challenge dot com.
Thanks so much for joining us.We'll talk to you soon. This podcast
has been hosted by me Ryan Marine. Thanks to Paul and Don for their
(28:41):
time today. This podcast has beenbrought to you by the Indie Autonomous Challenge
thanks to a generous grant from theIndiana Economic Development Corporation.
Welcome to The Inside Track Our AIFuture, a podcast at the nexus of
AI emerging tech, sports and entertainment. I'm your host, Ryan Marine,
professional broadcaster and amateur tech enthusiast.Today, in our first episode, I'll
be introducing you to two people you'llbe hearing from quite a bit on this
show, Paul Mitchell, the presidentof the Indie Autonomous Challenge, and Don
(00:30):
Wetric, an educator and the CEOof the tech focused started Up Foundation.
On this first episode, we'll belearning a little bit more about their backgrounds,
what brought us together for this project, and what we'll be focusing on
in future episodes. We actually recordedthis first episode of the show at the
headquarters of the Indie Autonomous Challenge orIAC, a nonprofit organization that runs competitions
(00:54):
for full scale, fully autonomous racecars. I hope you enjoy this first
conversation with Don and Paul. Herewe are, for what is effectively episode
zero of The Inside Track Our AIFuture, in the spacious abode of the
(01:18):
Indie Autonomous Challenge here in downtown Indianapolis. Let's lay it all out. What
are we here to do? Paul? It is the first edition of this
show and We've got big plans forthings to come. So maybe we start
with the background, what gave riseto the idea, what is the genesis
of this and what do we hopeto accomplish? Yeah, sure, I
mean so, Indie Autonomous Challenge hasbeen going on now for a couple of
(01:41):
years and it's captivated a global audiencethat sees autonomous race cars I think is
more than just a form of motorsportsentertainment. They really see it as a
platform for engagement, for attracting talent, for a new way of entertaining.
And AI is so central to thesuccess of Indie Autonomous Challenge. These cars
(02:05):
are literally driven by an AI driveror an AI robot. And we know
that our future is going to includeAI. I think it's a given now
that that society is accepted that it'sgoing to be part of our lives.
So how can we use the storiesand the personalities and some of the partners
that are involved in Indie Autonomous Challengeto have a broader conversation about our future
(02:30):
and technology innovation and the role AIis going to play in that future.
Yeah, I'm seeing this giant emptycanvas. My jurisdiction obviously is education taught
for twenty plus years and really wantedto have our students take a look at
what the future is. Every timeI ask people, you know, why,
what is the purpose of schools toprepare kids for the future? What
(02:52):
is the future? A lot ofit's going to be involved in AI and
a lot of different tech, andso I'm really anxious to look at some
of the tech issues, but alsothe ethics of some of these things,
and you know, what is thisdoing for safety and what is it doing
for people? There's there's this We'regoing to look back on this time in
ten years from now and go,you were man, we were really worried
(03:12):
over a hot cup of nothing,or we didn't even consider all these things
that was going to affect and justindy Autonomous is just this awesome blake canvas
that in some ways, it's notin some ways. In a lot of
ways, it's an entertaining way ofsaying, that's what AI is, and
that's what okay, as opposed tojust a nerdy ted talk. Yeah,
(03:34):
and on to your point, weare at the precipice of something that has
not been done before, and thisis very much at the cutting edge of
something that appears to be the wayof the future. And so as you
prepare the young people in your roleas an educator, or you look to
the business Paul, the business side, where corporations are looking at AI and
looking at ways where this could bethe trajectory for them in a decade or
(03:58):
even less quite quite possibly, there'sso much that is unknown, and I
think that's almost at the heart ofwhat these conversations are going to be.
Yeah, I think, you know, exploring the unknown, but having technology,
innovation and the potential of that technologyto improve lives, to in some
cases save lives, to improve theeconomy is central to what we want to
(04:24):
try to figure out. Right.I think there's a lot of discussions today
around AI that are just binary likeshould it happen or shouldn't it happen?
Like is it good thing for robotsto exist or should we never create them
at all? Is it going toturn into the terminator? And I think
we've got to get past those conversationsand talk about what do we actually want
(04:46):
our AI future to look like?And so, you know, in the
India Autonomous Challenge, when we setout to say can some of the smartest
talent in the world from top researchuniversities. Code an AI driver to like
a human race car driver at theend Anaposto motor speedway. The thought process
there as well, if AI cando that and people see that, it
(05:09):
will wake them up to the potentialthat AI can do other amazing things.
Right, driving a race car maynot be all that important to the average
person, but when they see arace car being driven by a robot,
then they think, oh, well, maybe I can get into a vehicle
that's going one hundred miles an hourthat's being driven autonomously, or maybe I
will feel that a robot's capable ofmaking, you know, really strategic decisions
(05:32):
away a human would understress. Yeah, the car stands in for the AI
future or whatever the application might be. Well, we're gonna be talking a
lot about the future, I thinkon this show, but maybe we should
here for the first episode look tothe past a little bit and set the
background for how we got to thispoint. And Paul will begin with you,
what was it in your professional backgroundit ultimately led you to leading the
(05:56):
end autonomous challenge, which I suspectwas not something that was on the radar,
maybe even five years ago, definitelynot autonomous race cars. So my
background is in public policy. Iworked for a governor of the state of
Indiana, Mitch Daniels, for hisfirst term, and that's how I got
my starts as a right out ofgrad school and was always fascinated with the
(06:20):
intersection of technology, innovation, government, and industry and that you couldn't really
get breakthrough technologies into the market unlessyou had collaboration between industry, academia,
and government, and those three thingsdon't always work well together, right,
and the h sometimes have different definitionsof what innovation is or should be.
(06:43):
And so my career I've spent tryingto find projects that are compelling that bring
those three forces together, and IndieAutonomous Challenge has certainly been that and then
some Right. Basically, we setout to say, could could we attract
the best and brightest minds to focuson a technology challenge that would showcase Indiana
(07:09):
frankly and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway andthe history that we have in racing and
innovation, um, but but doso in a completely new and different way.
UM kind of getting back to thelegacy of the track and motorsport being
a proving ground for unseen technology.UM. And at the same time,
(07:30):
I think we realized there was therewas no way that industry on its own
was going to pay for that.UM. You know, you were going
to need universities to buy in andand cover their costs and invest their time
and resources. You were going toneed government, frankly in this case State
of Indiana, UH philanthropy to comein and help put in those first dollars
(07:54):
UM to get something, get somethinggoing. And UM. What we've achieved
within the Autonomous Challenge in those lasttwo plus years is moving from an idea
that you know, if we buildit, will they come? Will the
smart students come and code the AIrobots? Can you build an autonomous race
car that's capable of going one hundredninety miles an hour? Into really an
(08:18):
ongoing initiative where we're having competitions atplaces like cs We just held one at
Indianapolis Motor Speedway, We're going tobe holding one next summer in Italy and
monzam So finding these kind of iconicvenues where you can bring this technology forward
and use it as a platform tohave a whole set of conversations like the
(08:41):
ones we're having now. You pickeda heck of a time to do it,
when the whole world shut down therefor about a year or so,
right in the heart of when youwere trying to put all the right So,
you know, when we launched IndianAutonomous Challenge it as a prize competition.
We announced it in I think Octoberof twenty nineteen, but the deadline
(09:03):
for teams to sign up was Februaryof twenty twenty, and had we made
the deadline April of twenty twenty,we would have gotten a grand total of
zero teams to sign up. Sowe were lucky that frankly, teams were
already aware of it and we're startingto determine whether they could could take this
challenge on in twenty nineteen where theywere still campuses were still open, and
(09:24):
then by the end of February,I think we had something in the neighborhood
of as many as forty universities fromeleven plus countries, maybe fourteen countries.
I think originally that's signed up,and you know, they were all kind
of taking a leap for a leapof faith, saying okay, can I
code an AI algorithm that's going tobe capable of controlling a formula race car
(09:50):
at high speeds, which had neverbeen done, and we didn't know if
it was really even possible. Andwhen the pandemic hit, they fully technology
allowed us to prevail. We wereable to have teams work remotely, collaborating,
you know, on the Internet,using cloud computing, using the power
(10:13):
of being able to code from anywhere, to advance their technology until things opened
up a little bit. And bythe summer of twenty twenty one, you
know, when we were building theserace cars, they were actually able to
come together and start practicing on thetrack. Um. But you know,
there was it was touch and goas to whether this thing would ever get
off the ground. Um, basedon the pandemic. A whole lot more
(10:35):
could be said about that, ofcourse, But don I'm curious too about
your background in education and what bringsyou to your interest in pursuing AI as
this next frontier for education. Sure, as Paul is saying, this blending
of government and education, and butI think that was the challenge. So
(10:56):
yeah, I noticed you laughed whathe said. Well, because in a
lot of ways that's what we dowell. And we have found this middle
ground of being able to make thesethings work. And so long story,
make sure I taught for several yearstwenty one in the classroom in another five
doing this but getting students to seeproblems as opportunities is really what the macro
(11:20):
is of this. And so westarted a thing called Innovate within with the
Indian Economic Development Corp. And essentiallywe were challenging our students to one find
a problem you want to solve,but in a real way. So instead
of saying I want to start afood truck, tell me why you think
this area needs a food truck.So to think entrepreneurily was among our biggest
concerns. But along the way,we kept noticing that a lot of these
(11:43):
students wanted to have things that weretech enabled, which is honestly, like
almost everything. I don't care ifyou want to start a food truck,
it's going to be tech enabled.Or whether you want to start an event
for teens to do the thing inthe weekend, it's going to be tech
enabled. And so when Paul thenstarted, I see my ears perked up
because, like I said before,this is this is a canvas to start
(12:05):
painting on. So my my backgroundas an educator and running the state's innovation
program. This is a hand inhand fit. So going forward, what
do I haven't interested in bringing upopportunities for students, allowing them to have
a first hand look and then quitefrankly, and playing for the home team
the first Dibbs or students of Indiana. Now, mind you, like Paul
(12:28):
wouldn't say that, I'm going tosay that because he has teams internationally coming
here at the college level. Butwe see ourselves a feeder system. We
want to have our students who alreadyhave an interest in autosports anyway, and
not that AI is like this wholething isn't always going to be about just
autosports, but AI and autosports makeslost sense. And then lastly, what
I really get cited about is thisopportunity to blend talents. Right, So
(12:52):
Paul was talking about the coders,like there's a lot of a lot of
people that need to turn the wrenchesand have the skill set of the hard
skills of auto and auto maintenance andperformance. And like I'm looking over my
shoulder here and like I see allthese cars. There's tire technologies, there's
aerodynamics, there's carbon fiber, there'sall these things and powered by artificial intelligence
(13:16):
and inside and everything else. Youknow, that's a really good point I
think when I think about the goalsat a high level for India Autonomous Challenge,
which are to advance the state ofthe art of autonomous technology, to
create a bigger pipeline of talent workingin this space AI talent, and then
(13:39):
to win hearts and minds of thegeneral public to say, okay, well,
if a race car can go onehundred ninety miles an hour with no
driver, then maybe I can turnmy driver assist technology when I'm on the
highway and that might frankly save theirlife, you know, if in a
collision environment. But I think aboutthose those objectives that the first objective of
technology innovation and commercialization UM what Don'sreally talking about. I think of as
(14:05):
as um innovation and technology fusion,where it's it's not that you just need
a brilliant coder to write an AIalgorithm that that is that is perhaps the
most critical step for an autonomous robotto to operate, but you also need
the people that can can build therobot, that can put the hardware and
(14:28):
together to to make it, tomake it work and make it perceive its
surroundings, all the sensor systems UM. And then in the case of our
robots, because they're they're million dollarsplus race cars, UM, it's all
of the other you know, advancedtechnology that goes into automotive, right,
And so you know, the teamsUM are are our reflection of developing the
(14:50):
code that can control the car.But then I E. C. Also
engages and contracts with a small armyof other talented people who help build these
race cars, maintain them, supportthem UM. And it's that kind of
fusion of technology that makes this wholething, you know, really really work.
And we talk about this in educationlike this, I'm gonna say buzzwers
(15:13):
them not to be dismissive, butwe keep hearing in education we need to
get our kids to collaborate and communicateand coordinate. And you're like, and
all these things are found through this. So like the blending of talents,
the seeing what's out there and what'spossible. UM, there is no right
answer with the IC. It's thecontinual learning process. So I see this
(15:35):
as just one big massive I don'twant to be dismissive and say class or
learning experience. I see this isone big learning experience and and um,
you know credit well we call it. I often say it's like a um
robotics club on steroids, right,So you know we know that that that
the robotics clubs and the STEM communityin element schools through high schools have proven
(16:02):
to be an amazing way to awakentalent and to get collaboration to take place.
And we're really taking that and extendingit to call it the sort of
professional level where you're talking about inour case, you know, PhD students,
full time faculty researchers, and corporateR and D specialists who are frankly
(16:22):
coming together like a robotics team toadvance technologies. So those elements that are
so critical to you know, trainingthe future talent are absolutely essential for in
the autonomous challenge to work. Weneed to pause for a quick break.
(16:45):
But on the other side, we'lllearn why a college student who had never
driven a car was drawn to anautonomous driving competition, and then we'll ask
Paul and Don what part of ourAI future are you most excited to explore
on the show. Welcome back tothe Inside Track our AI Future. I'm
(17:22):
your host Ryan Marine. Before thebreak, we learned about Paul and Don
in their backgrounds. We also laidthe groundwork for conversations to come on the
show. Now we're learning about howstate of the art technology from multiple fields
combines to power the cars of theIndie Autonomous Challenge and what that means for
the future. On the technology side, the way we're successful is by partnering
(17:51):
with industry. In addition to thebrilliant minds from the universities who code the
driver, they create the driver.And by the way, the drivers have
different personalities. Not all AI codeis the same, right. One team's
code from poly Move in Italy isquite different than the code from Technical University
of Munich in terms of how itperceives its surroundings the risks is willing to
(18:12):
take. So the drivers have personalities. We'll have to cover that in a
whole separate discussion about AI personality.But to your point of the fusion of
technology, we have a lot ofdifferent corporate sponsors. The difference between our
corporate sponsors and maybe the way corporatesponsors work in most sporting events where it's
(18:34):
mostly about marketing and eyeballs and mediaattention, which we have absolutely, but
our sponsors actually provide the hardware andthe software that goes onto these cars.
So each car has inside the cockpitwhere where the human driver would normally sit,
somewhere in the neighborhood of seven toeight hundred thousand dollars worth of AI
(18:56):
technology, autonomous technology, light,our sensors, rate, our sensors,
optical, which is basically a fancyword for camera. You know, supercomputers,
drive by wire systems, GPS systems, and it's the best of the
best. I mean, it's technologyfrom top companies, you know, whether
it's Luminar, Continental, Cisco,AWS, Bridgestone, even as you talk
(19:18):
about tire technology. So everything isa tech enabled product. But the companies
realize that their specialization is in thatbespoke product. So Luminar makes a damn
good lightar we think one of thebest in the world, and it allows
our cars to compete, but youknow, they don't have the exposure necessarily
to what could cloud computing from acompany like AWS. Due to empower my
(19:44):
light R technology and our vehicles becomea platform for that technology fusion to take
place and hopefully find breakthroughs that allowthese companies to move these products into the
commercial realm more quickly. What Ikeep coming back to is the car is
the hook, right. The caris what gets people excited and interested,
whether that's from a corporate level orfrom the student level. I mean,
(20:07):
what student wouldn't want to get involvedin a car going one hundred and ninety
miles an hour around. So werethe most famous racetracks in the world,
even if they're not from a racingbackground, That chance to scratch that itch
and the excitement, the competitive aspect, it's more than just a laboratory because
there's the competition element too, right, Yeah, And again that collaboration,
(20:27):
communication, coordination kind of angle toit is that instead of just talking about
AI for AI sake, it doesit gamifies it. There's a competition there.
But I also think that there's thisin whoever came up with the term
inside track, it's such an uniqueopportunity to talk about what is the inside
track of this? What else isthis going to unlock? What is it
(20:48):
going to really uncover? And Ialso think that, like I just remember
when when Paul started i C.I started hearing from some race fans that
were immediately guarded and they were like, well, I love my favorite driver,
I don't want this, And thenthere was other people there's like,
wait a second, this could savetheir life. Right, So like this
learning curve of what IT is andwhat it isn't is I think it really
(21:11):
a part of the show, butit's also like this great opportunity to showcase
what AI is and maybe what itisn't. I think another thing that's important
as we think about our our AIfuture is who who are the who are
the stars? Who are the peoplethat were going to to look to to
(21:33):
define that that AI future and mmotorsport has always been about personalities and stars.
And yes, certainly the drivers havebeen central to that, right the
human drivers, Um, but raceteam owners you know, everyone knows Roger
(21:53):
Penski, everybody knows Michael Andrettie.Yes he was a racecar driver, but
he's probably more known as a asa as an owner. Um, you
know, Zach Brown. These areall people with Indiana roots. So I'm
giving them shout outs. But there'smany others you look for. You look
at need for Speed and the amazingimpact that's had on drawing people into motorsport.
(22:15):
You know, they don't just coverthe drivers, they're covering the story
around the teams and the technology,and so what what I'm excited about is
the fact that um Indi Autonomous Challengegives a platform for a kid from Pittsburgh
who you know, hasn't had theeasiest life. Um, who is brilliant,
(22:37):
I mean just absolutely a genius incomputer coding. To be on a
track at a place like Indianapolis MotorSpeedway or Monza UM or Las Vegas and
and be a star is to isto have that capability recognized and promoted and
held up. And you know thatis something it is really powerful. Um
(23:03):
we have we have team members whohave never driven a car before. Right,
there's one of the team members fromthe MIT PIT our w team stands
from. It's a combination of MIT, University of Pittsburgh, Rochester Institute for
Technology, and University of Waterloo.Want to make sure I get them all
right, um Nyana was her name. So she was on the team last
year, but she since graduated.She's not still on the team, although
(23:26):
she's still very engaged. And youknow, she always said she'd never driven
a car, she'd never a driver'slicense, you knew nothing about cars,
had no interest in cars. Whatwas she She was an ai H person,
right, she was interested in robotics, she was interested in engineering and
the idea of getting an engineering marvellike a race car to to do this.
(23:47):
Uh, it was was attractive toher, an attracted to it.
So I think in that sense towhat Don is saying, like, this
isn't just India Autonomous Challenge is notjust about the inside track and racing,
although is part of it, andthat was why we selected that name.
It's about, you know, howdo you have a discussion about the impact
(24:10):
that technology innovation is going to haveand who are the people that are going
to make that impact? And yeah, I'm just excited about like the broader
context here and to that point,yes, there will be some episodes that
we will focus in on safety andmotorsports and how AI can play a role
in that, but it's not specificallya motorsports show. That's not what we're
here to do. Again, thecar is the hook, or maybe in
(24:32):
this case it's the jumping off point. There are all kinds of different avenues
that we plan on discussing with industryleaders in lots of different fields, everything
from simulation to demonstrating AI and winninghearts and minds of people, and it
comes to AI. So there's abunch of different routes that we're looking to
go down. Is there something inparticular, don that has you excited about
(24:53):
what we've got coming. There's alot of things I've got don't mind what
he's excited about. Yeah, there'sthere's the future of entertainment period. I
mean headsets. I mean, Ilike the NBA has done a really good
job with you know, having afront row seat on your headset or um.
I can only imagine what UFC isabout to unleash. Sure, I'm
sure they're up to something, butthere's just you know, there's just a
(25:17):
lot there. I mean, we'realso this week when we're filming this,
uh you know chat GPT just launched, So right now everybody's talking about AI
and in some ways they're freaking out. And and again like there's gonna be
there's highs and lows, and we'regoing to figure it out along the way.
And so I think that we're recordingthis at the right time and in
some cases the right place. Imean, we're we're gonna be on different
locations, but you know, herewe set on someplace that doesn't look too
(25:41):
threatening. But you know, roboticcars are being you know, built,
and all the other things. Sofuture of entertainment, future of education,
future of racing, future of safety. Uh, these are all things that
I'm just geeked up about because whenI see all these, I see the
future of employment, the future opportunitiesfor students that may not know that this
is an optional. Like you're saying, a girl who doesn't like cars,
(26:04):
or shouldn't say it, doesn't likecars, A girl that doesn't drive,
don't care about cars? Right?Yeah? Is this is her thing?
Right? Yeah? So like,what a great time for students to learn
these things. And as we're phasingout certain things, you know, there's
gonna be some jobs that just aren'tthere anymore. And that's okay. These
things are the future and we mightas well start pointing at it. And
(26:26):
again, if it's our job aseducators exe prepare kids for the future,
we're going to unveil a lot ofthings that are of the future. So,
as mentioned, we are here indowntown Indianapolis at the headquarters of the
Indie Autonomous Challenge, and all ofthis is very conscious. Indianapolis is the
site pretty much in the shadows ofthe famed Indianapolis Motor Speedway. But what
(26:47):
makes this the ideal launching point forthe IAC and then what's to come in
the future. So many household productsand safety protocols and just experimental things came
out of the five hundred, Sowhat are perfect spot And we're going to
talk about that. I mean,I think we we we I know this
isn't a motorsports show, uh,at least purely a motorsports show, but
(27:07):
but we're going to talk about kindof what was the historical um origins of
motorsport and how are those um originsbeing kind of recreated not only by India
Autonomous Challenge, but by things likeFormulae and other other series that are out
there that are, you know,pushing the envelope of technology innovation in a
(27:32):
way that that you know, transcendslet's say, just the marketing and the
and the brands and the and theand the drivers and the storylines of motorsport,
which are also incredibly compelling. It'sright up my alley. Yeah,
I'm looking forward to that episode,that's for sure. Well, gentlemen,
I think that sets the stage nicely, really excited for What's to Come.
(27:57):
I think they were in the firstepisode. We've laid the foundations for what
is to Come. You'll be hearinga whole lot more from Paul and Don
in future episodes of the show.And if you'd like to learn more about
the Indie Autonomous Challenge and our timeat CES, head to Indie Autonomous Challenge
dot com. If you'd like toget in touch with the show, or
(28:17):
you have a suggestion for topics you'dlike to hear us cover, you can
get in touch with me directly atRyan at Indie Autonomous Challenge dot com.
Thanks so much for joining us.We'll talk to you soon. This podcast
has been hosted by me Ryan Marine. Thanks to Paul and Don for their
(28:41):
time today. This podcast has beenbrought to you by the Indie Autonomous Challenge
thanks to a generous grant from theIndiana Economic Development Corporation.
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