February 6, 2024 • 31 mins
Alessio Cicolari is a pioneer in the world of Esports and sim racing, and the CEO and Founder of the Ak Group. In this episode of the Inside Track, Ryan and Paul sit down with Alessio to compare the challenges and triumphs of the Indy Autonomous Challenge and the various Esport racing events Alessio has experienced over the years.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The venue is really important because it's basically a way
we can endorse more what we do with the physical location,
because it won't be the same thing. We go Eastports
Arena to do such a thing. It's like having an
NBA competition NBAS for competition at the Mandison Square Garden.
You know it's I don't have to explain why it's unique.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The world around us is changing faster than ever before.
Ideas once only imagined in science fiction are becoming a reality.
Throughout the course of our amazing twenty three episode season,
we'll speak to some of the greatest minds in robotics
and artificial intelligence to discuss the groundbreaking work that's fueling
it all. I'm your host, Ryan Marine joined Being and
my co host Paul Mitchell, the president of the Indian
(00:49):
Autonomous Challenge and see why we call this the inside Track.
This week we take a deep dive into the world
of esports and sim racing. Once seen as simple video
game competitions, these digital events now have serious backing from
the likes of BMW, Mercedes AMG and Red Bull Racing. Today,
(01:09):
Paul and I sit down with CEO and founder of
the AK Group, Alessio Chikilari will explore some of the
ways that autonomous racing and esports compare and how esports
grew from what some dismissed as a gimmick at races
to being a respected event. Plus we'll talk about the
many ways that technology from video games could easily end
(01:30):
up in a standard family car. Alessio, great to have
you on the show. This is a conversation I've really
been looking forward to, especially as esports has become a
greater part of my portfolio as a sports broadcaster, specifically
with motorsports broadcasting, but with you, I'm really curious about
(01:52):
the genesis of this. Was esports always something that was
in interest to you video games and then video game
competitions and then it became a business or or what
was the timeline? How did this How did this passion
come into fruition for you?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, and shop first of all, show everyone and listening
to this podcast, and let's see that I always add
in in Mahared motorsport and I was always a gamer
together with my brother. So basically when we had the
chance to bring the gaming in the puducks, we made it.
(02:30):
Basically twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen. It was the first
time we started doing activities in the products. We wanted
to showcase basically that the esport can be not just
a thing for our kids playing video games, but it
can be something more. And then here after here we
(02:50):
basically rised the bar over and over. So we started
with US small Championship outlat Championship in Spa twenty eighteen
with the export drivers awarded on the twenty four hour
podium with people still laughing a little bit of what
we were doing. Then the next year then we did
(03:11):
the first championship run by round during the Endurance Series,
so we were on two months of porka a twenty
four hours pub Barcelona and Norbury and then basically showcased
that it can be very good because a lot of
driver was coming to the track site from all over
the Europe to compete and to be part of the war.
(03:35):
Twenty twenty with COVID, we did a great job together
with fun Attack and other brands to still be present
in the market, so they were pushing me to create
this kind of content. And twenty twenty one, after a
long period of development together with fun Attack, we created
(03:55):
this unique environment, the fun Attach GT Procere, which is
the first activity ever that you have a blending between
the real sport and the esport.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I want to go back to the esports arena that
you talked about in Paul. I was there in twenty
twenty one and the twenty four hours of spot covering
that race when they had this arena set up in
the paddock, and I'm not sure I could do justice
Lessio too, just how cool that esports arena was. Can
you explain for people who haven't seen it what you
pack into a pretty small little footprint within the paddock,
(04:30):
but it's packed with really really cool technology and is
can't miss if you're at one of these events.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, it's really challenging because if you use to be
in the products, you know very well that the space
instead of the products are really tight and once you
are there, there's a lot of complication, and especially for
our technology, which is not really like a racing car
that can really not depend on external services, but we
(05:00):
need to rely on a power internet, very stable connection
and a lot of it working behind the scenes. So
we need to build everything in a few days. Normally
we started as the first day that the product opens
because obviously we need a lot of time and in
two days we build the arena which is twenty five
(05:21):
per twenty meters space and it's the biggest hospitality there
is in the product during the digit word challenge, so
it's not just the game, so we need to be
very sure that everything is set correctly. The drivers came
come to the arena to do their week set up,
so they test their rigs, they do their let's say
(05:44):
fine tuning like they do with the normal car, so
they set everything. Then behind the scene. During this process
we have also the production, the is direction, all the
social media establishing in the back of the arena in
the very time space and we basically have all the
production on site together with their en so you can
(06:06):
imagine we basically run through all the different issue during
the past three years, from power outage, internet outage and
a lot of crazy stuff that happened during the pat
At one time when we were in Spa at twenty nineteen,
we had also a very mad guy that just basically
unplugged the power from the world because it was upset
(06:29):
that we didn't allow him to try the simulated during
a competition. Probably it was drunk, but it was funny
because it just don't plug everything out of the race.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
So let's see.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We've been talking about the similarities and the connection between
what in the Autonomous Challenge is doing and what you've
been doing pioneering in the erasing space, and I think
that one important commonality is the is the venues, right,
These race tracks are more than just a track for
(07:07):
for race cars. They're they're venues that people come to
and feel a connection to to motorsport. They're typically located
in beautiful locations, you know where We've run an Indianapolis
motor Speedway, at Monza in Las Vegas. These are these
are iconic settings and so the virtual drivers in our
(07:30):
case and the E drivers in your case, they want
to go to these tracks, right, they want to be
there to How important is the venue in in your
in your case, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Sir, right, the venue is really important because it's basically, uh,
it's a way we can't endorse more what we do
with the physical and physical location because it won't be
the same thing. We go and now E Sports Arena
to do such a thing. It's it's like, I don't know,
NBA competition. NBA is for competition at the Madison Square Garden.
(08:05):
You know it's it's I don't have to explain why
it's unique. Obviously, it will bring a lot of complication because, uh,
I've been in Vegas to see the the in Autonomous
Challenge race during the Cees, and it's it's you don't
understand that all the the challenge you have to face
(08:26):
because those spaces are not meant to be so highly technology.
So you can probably understand those kind of challenges.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, just an example of that, we ran an event
at Texas Motor Speedway and we leading up to it,
we with our sponsor Cisco and others, we had all
kinds of plans to activate and utilize the the big
jumbo tron. I don't know what it's got, big cost,
big hot, big hats. Yeah, that's that's that's a very
(08:57):
Texas name. So we were going to use big Hoss
to show the broadcasts, to have commercials to it would
have been, you know, really cool. We did something similar
at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but there is no jumbo tron
at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. So we were super excited
about this and had all kinds of plans and during
(09:17):
our testing rounds leading up to the event at Texas
Motor Speedway, teams started to realize that Big Hoss was
interfering with their GPS signals and the frequency that the
cars were operating on, and you know, we had to
(09:37):
make a decision, in conjunction with the track, in conjunction
with the sponsors, what do we do, you know, can
teams overcome this? And in the end we did. We
had to turn Big Hoss off for the for the event.
And so you know, in some ways, the the the
testing and validation we're doing with our India Autonomous Challenge
cars and you're doing LESIO with your active is in
(10:00):
the in the paddock is proving out those different challenges
and use cases that the tracks need to need to overcome.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. Also I had that conversation with
the WS many times, which is also our sponsor and
our activities. So there are similarity also in that case
that they are able even to bring part of the
cloud system on track because some of the track are
not really well connected, so they are able so to
bring part of the cloud that center with all the
(10:32):
connection and fragstock in fracks structure to be able to
deliver the same service they are doing normally, like F
one for example, that they need a lot of that
change even if they cannot basically change settings on the
car by regulation, not because they can technically, but it's
(10:54):
a thing that's with the with the task we're with
the job we are doing in the esport and with
the autonomous challenge, and also with the with the real car,
can maybe create a new new technology for the future
for the real motor sport, for the standard car. And
we see already that some of the technology we developed
for the esport in this case is in terms of broadcast.
(11:17):
Now a lot of people is also doing for a
standard broadcast because they sort of smart. It's it's cheaper.
Also because you know esport uh doesn't let's say the
same budget the real sports, So basically you have to
be smarter. We can develop I'm talking about esport right now,
but I know that also with the autonomous challenges like
(11:39):
technology that now they use because they need to run
the car and competition, but when they can be used
for a regular car or for a new new technology
that can be included on the new racing card, maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of that that
sounds like a lot of things that I'm dealing with
too on a on a weekend by weekend basis, And
I'm curious about this, the fact that esports now in
many ways is leading motorsports in terms of developing some
of these new technologies. And earlier you talked about the
reception that your esports champions got on the podium at
(12:14):
SPA in twenty nineteen, and you know, people weren't necessarily
sure what to think about this with the esports drivers
being recognized alongside those that had raced together. But increasingly
we're seeing that perception changing. We're seeing esports being able
to lead the way. I think one interesting innovation you
talk about Fantech, they make equipment for esports competitions. Well,
(12:37):
the new BMWGT three car, the steering wheel is one
that you can take off of this new BMW racecar
and plug into your home simrig and vice versa. So
in many ways now we're seeing greater integration between esports
and actual motor sports. And with that, Lesuo, are you
seeing the perception of esports changing in the public at large?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, you're right. The challenge that fun at Tech faced
with that will was it was just the first one
because now I don't know if you saw so see
the same kate that they they created directly, not not
even for the for the simulator. CMQ well is now
on the GT car and it's something that can can
(13:23):
really do the job that was telling you before, so
less development costs which can do the same job as
the regular equipment and development on this in this case
can really push I had a smart production and I
will say yes, basically, this this way we to do
(13:45):
things once upon a time was just a sort of
joke for someone, but especially and I don't want to
send thanks to the COVID because it's not nothing good
with COVID, but at least they think that helped us
to showcase more was that a lot of people was
doing esport during the lockdown, including the F one drivers.
(14:08):
And since then I'm not going I'm going to lie,
but at the hours allowed of simulators and kipment for
simulation at the time was like crazy, so we cannot
We couldn't sell as much as we wanted at that
time because everyone was jumping in. And now when we
talk about this kind of thing, a lot of people companies,
(14:31):
a journalist, they are talking seriously.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I'll ask you.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Part of our focus with this series podcast series is
AI and what is the role of AI and motorsports
and autonomous vehicles in society? So clearly AI is a
big deal in the world of esport, right there was
a lot of headlines that were made when I think
(14:56):
an AI driver did incredibly well in in UH with
Sony's Grand Turismo UH competition and and so I guess
the question for you is do you see AI as
a positive thing in erasing? Do you see it as
(15:17):
a as a as a threat where the AI drivers
you know, just clearly start beating all the human drivers,
And so what's the point? What is your what is
your view of the role AI plays within within esports?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, I think AI obviously is the next big thing.
It was already, It's not just today now. AI is
in everything we use, we do. Sometimes you have to
check if something is true or not. It's generated by
it's uh, it's complicated. But for espart, the first thing
(15:53):
I can see is the risk of cheating for sure,
because if I can develop on AI, either driving on
my bio fight would be difficult to check obviously, because
if an AI is able to control my pedals and
will it's like he's doing in your cars basically, which
as sending the input to their twitters, not for the
(16:16):
trot for the breaking system. So at the end of
the day, a wind better SOD for esport is by wire,
so there is no hydraulic so it's very similar. But
aside for that, I would say that can be cool
for sure for training purpose, it's big stuff because if
I want to train the best, having an AI that
(16:38):
can give you advice on basically on my own way
to dry and tell me what basically I can break
later or exit better in the corner. It's a job
that normally is the race engineer is doing. But a
race engineer has got just a limited quantity of data
to analyze and a limited the spears. Even if it's
(17:01):
a good the eras engineer. So having that I said
that I mean for me is a good thing, but
we need to right proper regulation. As in the other
field where AI is taking place, you know there's a
local complication when the I is taking over the human.
So for sure it wants to be it's a substitute
(17:25):
in the human, but the human needs to be able
to handle the development or a AI.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know, it's interesting to think about where AI is
in its journey, and in many ways, AI in the
digital environment, and e sports for now is in the
digital environment. Although you and I have talked about how
do you how do you blend an esport? There literally
(17:52):
could possibly be somebody driving a car in an esport
track and it's it's replicated in a car virtually in
the Indie Autonomous Challenge, So there may be a future
where you have an AI driver versus a human esports driver.
But in the digital realm, AI is getting to the
(18:13):
point where it is better than some of the best
drivers and therefore it's used as a training tool, as
a competitor, et cetera. But in the physical world, AI
in the physical realm where we are within the Autonomous Challenge,
and we still have quite a ways to go, right.
So you know, if you take one of our cars
(18:36):
and you put it out on a track against a
top Indie car driver or a race car driver, they're
gonna they're gonna whip us, and our car will get
confused and probably would stop racing at this point. But
you know where AI was five years ago in the
digital realm versus where it is today that is trending
(18:56):
toward moving into the physical world. And so when we
think five years out, ten years out, fifteen years out,
the progress that's being made in the digital world will
start to transfer into what is a more complicated challenge
for AI. And you know, I think that that opens
up a lot of opportunities, particularly for safety and mobility,
(19:17):
right because you know, being able to see an AI
driver in a digital world operate safely and efficiently is great,
it's but it's the physical world where we need to
save lives. We were talking to Sebastian thru and he was,
you know, mentioning that a million people a year die
in auto accidents, and so you know, this technology, once
(19:40):
we see it saving lives is going to really, I
think change the My belief is it'll change the public's
view and acceptance of the technology in that use case,
in the use case of mobility, where it's not making
ethical decisions necessarily, it's not making decisions about public policy
(20:01):
or deciding what's true or false, but is operating a
vehicle or an aircraft in a way that is more
efficient and safer.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Let's say that what you're doing with the autonomous challenge
is basically a little bit different from sim racing because
AI in the digital world is basically you are simulating
the real world, but in reality because at the end
of the day, the AI is simulating everything in the software,
but he has to apply the decision in the real word.
(20:35):
So for sure will be more difficult because you know
it's about also to improve sensor, to improve actuators and everything.
And I think also that's why probably you have such
a huge sponsor because that is like with that one
and the motorsport not it raised the bar the either
(20:56):
space with the other technology, so they need to have
something or because in the standard autonomous vehicle is not
there not going two hundred miles per hour, they will
never go at that speed. But if you find a
way to develop a technology that can really work in
a good way at that speed, probably is a lower
speed can do like do the same thing, like eating
(21:18):
a pizza. It's kind of easy stuff. And the thing
is that for sure, saving life is a target for
the technology you're developing. In my opinion, not just in
the standout cars, but even in the most sport because
if we we label to develop technology that we really
(21:42):
can avoid people's mistake because so far in my car,
if I break too late, probably yeah, it doesn't allow
to block the weak but they hang too fast that
we're still crashing into the wall kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But that actually anticipated my question. I'm curious what role
you feel esports has to play in developing some of
this technology, because you look at things like heads up
display and the amount of data that's available to a
gamer or a seam racing professional to make their decisions
to be a safer driver. In the same world, we're
seeing some of that stuff, especially in the heads up display,
(22:17):
creeping into road card technology today.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, for sure, and let's say that the seam drivers
can really act as test drivers. Yeah, because honestly, the
only different is that the to apply the decision the
AI or the software is doing. Obviously pull and exteam
need to transfer that command to the wheels, to all
(22:44):
the dynamic of the vehicle, which is not easy to manage.
For sure, they are thousands of data that you can have.
More obviously in the computer is easy. All the physics
of the computer is generated by the computer. So my opinion,
as we were saying before, it's a cheaper way and
faster to reach target because otherwise, if you're doing in
real life, how many to strive it you have and
(23:06):
the need to reach their life probably also to do
testing of such a too. You cannot go flat out
into the world to see if the guys like stopping
them not.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
This is a really important point and something we've talked about.
Unless you know the the ability to homologate to create
a common platform for autonomous algorithm training, which are teams
in India Autonomous Challenge use and benefit from greatly. Like
for example, the teams are now at Manza, UH doing
(23:40):
track days and of course you can't get that many
track days. You can't run hours and hours and hours,
you know, day after day at Manza. So before they
go there, they've got all kinds of detailed models of
the track and they're running them in AI simulators. And
if you think about an AI simulator you see them today,
(24:01):
uh that we use, they're they're not really meant to
reflect graphics or a graphical user interface for a human
erasing driver, because everything's happening in the background and the
point of the visual aspect is just for the team
to kind of have a sense of what's going on.
Reality is a team doesn't even need to see it.
They can just kind of get the report after the
(24:22):
simulation is run. But so this this merger of the
sophistication of what was gaming and into simulation and into
a level of simulator that is right there aligned with
the best autonomous simulators is something that I think we
(24:45):
can do UH as a as an industry fairly easily.
I mean, it's not it's not a it's not a
huge leap from where erasing is today and where the
autonomous UH simulators are today.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, it's free interesting. Our AI can really work in
every in every field, even in esport and gaming, to
deliver and industrial industrial content. And you know, automotive is
still one of the big business in the world right now.
It's it's it's a matter not just to develop autonomous vehicles.
(25:21):
But in my opinion, the next big thing on automotive
would be a mix of the two things, because, yeah,
and the freeway. I would like the car to try itself,
but honestly, when I drive myself on my mountains or
on the day, I want to drive myself with a
little bit more of safety. That would be cool for sure,
(25:43):
and especially if all the cars will have some autonomous
intelligence on board, so we avoid to these stupid things
and two different cars which kind of happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Finally, from me at least, I'm curious about the future
of esports, especially with the development of virtual reality and
the level that that has gone to you hear Paul
talk about that augmentation of virtual and real bringing those
things together. Then you add AI into the mix. Where
do you see esports headed with these new emerging technologies
(26:18):
in developing technologies looking five or ten years down the line, Wow, five.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Ten years, five ten years is very long forecast for
espert especially let's say I'm a virtual reality here, augmented
reality and EI together, can we make the difference next years?
I'm more into augmented reality because obviously can be more flexible.
Instead of the virtual reality, I would like to have
(26:47):
like us in driver racing an in as simulator, but
actually actually racing a real cart truck. So, as Paul
was saying before, maybe quan do a short time with
autonomous challenge is something that we triggered. It is triggering
a lot of me. Uh So it's uh, I see
(27:07):
this kind of arcatagy because mutually the reality is already
there is already strong. I mean a lot of development
also in there, and the automotive is relying on on
this and these tools.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
The last question I have Lesio is you know, India
Autonomous Challenge is very much a global competition. We're we're
holding our first event now and in Europe at Manza.
We have teams from Asia, from from throughout Europe, from
the United States. Your your work and the progress that's
(27:43):
been made in in esport and the blending of esport
with motorsports events in Europe has been incredible over the
last last handful of years. But sort of what are
your plans over the next couple of years to to
take what you're doing UH to the to the to
the global scale.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I said that our big target is for sure United States,
so it's it's not a secret. We are working very
very hard to make this happen in a short time.
I think the market now is really uh US market
is different from the European You're right, but not because
(28:23):
they say in the United States they don't love MUTI forty.
In the United States, the motorsport is a little bit
different from European, so we we don't know very well
the American motorsport, and Americans probably don't know very well
the European motorsport. That's why no, we align on F
one F one, but you came in the US, and
in the US, okay, F one is getting bigger, but
(28:45):
still in Indie and NASCAR, so we are not talking
about our our let's say, championship. And but I realized
that the let's said, the passion for motorsport is even higher.
So I saw a lot of compute teach anyway, with
with everything with whales, obviously we need to deal with
(29:05):
the budget, with equipment, with everything, but it's it's it's happening,
so just a matter of when. But it's not a
clue that we are going to do this and next
next up would be for sure, Middle East is growing
a lot. Obviously it's not it's not as sacree that
the budget and Middle East are like blowing for different reasons,
(29:30):
but it's uh, it's a region which is really growing
a lot in motor sport and also in similism. Asia
for sure is another big but it's really too much
from fragmented. It's not easy to manage and probably won't
be won't be our target and Latin America is another
big region where motorsport and sim racing especially currently have
(29:52):
got good results. But obviously we take time.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I hope, so looking forward to seeing you at a
race here in the States very very soon.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
If you need an announcer, that's right, I already made
my plug if you've always started recording, so yeah, absolutely,
I know.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And I got to be involved in the Sro America
Esports Championship in twenty twenty, like you're talking about, when
everybody wasn't at a real racetrack for a few months there,
we found a way to replace it virtually and that
certainly went a long way to changing perceptions I think
to esports generally. But that's another conversation for another time.
For now, Alessio, we have to be conscious of your time.
(30:29):
Thank you so much. Really enjoyed the conversation. Hope to
see you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you, Thank you bus.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Thanks for joining us this week on the inside track.
That was Alessio Chiicolauri see EGO and founder of the
AK Group, helping us understand how the growing world of
esports is contributing to some exciting new technology. Next week
we'll take a look at how some of the technology
being developed at the IAC has found its way into
(30:59):
a few more industries than just race cars. Author and
AI evangelist for kyp dot Ai, Sarah Burnett joins us
to offer her research into how AI might start saving
lives both on and off the track. Thanks to the
ie d C and the IAC for keeping us on
the inside track.
The venue is really important because it's basically a way
we can endorse more what we do with the physical location,
because it won't be the same thing. We go Eastports
Arena to do such a thing. It's like having an
NBA competition NBAS for competition at the Mandison Square Garden.
You know it's I don't have to explain why it's unique.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The world around us is changing faster than ever before.
Ideas once only imagined in science fiction are becoming a reality.
Throughout the course of our amazing twenty three episode season,
we'll speak to some of the greatest minds in robotics
and artificial intelligence to discuss the groundbreaking work that's fueling
it all. I'm your host, Ryan Marine joined Being and
my co host Paul Mitchell, the president of the Indian
(00:49):
Autonomous Challenge and see why we call this the inside Track.
This week we take a deep dive into the world
of esports and sim racing. Once seen as simple video
game competitions, these digital events now have serious backing from
the likes of BMW, Mercedes AMG and Red Bull Racing. Today,
(01:09):
Paul and I sit down with CEO and founder of
the AK Group, Alessio Chikilari will explore some of the
ways that autonomous racing and esports compare and how esports
grew from what some dismissed as a gimmick at races
to being a respected event. Plus we'll talk about the
many ways that technology from video games could easily end
(01:30):
up in a standard family car. Alessio, great to have
you on the show. This is a conversation I've really
been looking forward to, especially as esports has become a
greater part of my portfolio as a sports broadcaster, specifically
with motorsports broadcasting, but with you, I'm really curious about
(01:52):
the genesis of this. Was esports always something that was
in interest to you video games and then video game
competitions and then it became a business or or what
was the timeline? How did this How did this passion
come into fruition for you?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, and shop first of all, show everyone and listening
to this podcast, and let's see that I always add
in in Mahared motorsport and I was always a gamer
together with my brother. So basically when we had the
chance to bring the gaming in the puducks, we made it.
(02:30):
Basically twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen. It was the first
time we started doing activities in the products. We wanted
to showcase basically that the esport can be not just
a thing for our kids playing video games, but it
can be something more. And then here after here we
(02:50):
basically rised the bar over and over. So we started
with US small Championship outlat Championship in Spa twenty eighteen
with the export drivers awarded on the twenty four hour
podium with people still laughing a little bit of what
we were doing. Then the next year then we did
(03:11):
the first championship run by round during the Endurance Series,
so we were on two months of porka a twenty
four hours pub Barcelona and Norbury and then basically showcased
that it can be very good because a lot of
driver was coming to the track site from all over
the Europe to compete and to be part of the war.
(03:35):
Twenty twenty with COVID, we did a great job together
with fun Attack and other brands to still be present
in the market, so they were pushing me to create
this kind of content. And twenty twenty one, after a
long period of development together with fun Attack, we created
(03:55):
this unique environment, the fun Attach GT Procere, which is
the first activity ever that you have a blending between
the real sport and the esport.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I want to go back to the esports arena that
you talked about in Paul. I was there in twenty
twenty one and the twenty four hours of spot covering
that race when they had this arena set up in
the paddock, and I'm not sure I could do justice
Lessio too, just how cool that esports arena was. Can
you explain for people who haven't seen it what you
pack into a pretty small little footprint within the paddock,
(04:30):
but it's packed with really really cool technology and is
can't miss if you're at one of these events.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, it's really challenging because if you use to be
in the products, you know very well that the space
instead of the products are really tight and once you
are there, there's a lot of complication, and especially for
our technology, which is not really like a racing car
that can really not depend on external services, but we
(05:00):
need to rely on a power internet, very stable connection
and a lot of it working behind the scenes. So
we need to build everything in a few days. Normally
we started as the first day that the product opens
because obviously we need a lot of time and in
two days we build the arena which is twenty five
(05:21):
per twenty meters space and it's the biggest hospitality there
is in the product during the digit word challenge, so
it's not just the game, so we need to be
very sure that everything is set correctly. The drivers came
come to the arena to do their week set up,
so they test their rigs, they do their let's say
(05:44):
fine tuning like they do with the normal car, so
they set everything. Then behind the scene. During this process
we have also the production, the is direction, all the
social media establishing in the back of the arena in
the very time space and we basically have all the
production on site together with their en so you can
(06:06):
imagine we basically run through all the different issue during
the past three years, from power outage, internet outage and
a lot of crazy stuff that happened during the pat
At one time when we were in Spa at twenty nineteen,
we had also a very mad guy that just basically
unplugged the power from the world because it was upset
(06:29):
that we didn't allow him to try the simulated during
a competition. Probably it was drunk, but it was funny
because it just don't plug everything out of the race.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
So let's see.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We've been talking about the similarities and the connection between
what in the Autonomous Challenge is doing and what you've
been doing pioneering in the erasing space, and I think
that one important commonality is the is the venues, right,
These race tracks are more than just a track for
(07:07):
for race cars. They're they're venues that people come to
and feel a connection to to motorsport. They're typically located
in beautiful locations, you know where We've run an Indianapolis
motor Speedway, at Monza in Las Vegas. These are these
are iconic settings and so the virtual drivers in our
(07:30):
case and the E drivers in your case, they want
to go to these tracks, right, they want to be
there to How important is the venue in in your
in your case, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Sir, right, the venue is really important because it's basically, uh,
it's a way we can't endorse more what we do
with the physical and physical location because it won't be
the same thing. We go and now E Sports Arena
to do such a thing. It's it's like, I don't know,
NBA competition. NBA is for competition at the Madison Square Garden.
(08:05):
You know it's it's I don't have to explain why
it's unique. Obviously, it will bring a lot of complication because, uh,
I've been in Vegas to see the the in Autonomous
Challenge race during the Cees, and it's it's you don't
understand that all the the challenge you have to face
(08:26):
because those spaces are not meant to be so highly technology.
So you can probably understand those kind of challenges.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, just an example of that, we ran an event
at Texas Motor Speedway and we leading up to it,
we with our sponsor Cisco and others, we had all
kinds of plans to activate and utilize the the big
jumbo tron. I don't know what it's got, big cost,
big hot, big hats. Yeah, that's that's that's a very
(08:57):
Texas name. So we were going to use big Hoss
to show the broadcasts, to have commercials to it would
have been, you know, really cool. We did something similar
at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but there is no jumbo tron
at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. So we were super excited
about this and had all kinds of plans and during
(09:17):
our testing rounds leading up to the event at Texas
Motor Speedway, teams started to realize that Big Hoss was
interfering with their GPS signals and the frequency that the
cars were operating on, and you know, we had to
(09:37):
make a decision, in conjunction with the track, in conjunction
with the sponsors, what do we do, you know, can
teams overcome this? And in the end we did. We
had to turn Big Hoss off for the for the event.
And so you know, in some ways, the the the
testing and validation we're doing with our India Autonomous Challenge
cars and you're doing LESIO with your active is in
(10:00):
the in the paddock is proving out those different challenges
and use cases that the tracks need to need to overcome.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. Also I had that conversation with
the WS many times, which is also our sponsor and
our activities. So there are similarity also in that case
that they are able even to bring part of the
cloud system on track because some of the track are
not really well connected, so they are able so to
bring part of the cloud that center with all the
(10:32):
connection and fragstock in fracks structure to be able to
deliver the same service they are doing normally, like F
one for example, that they need a lot of that
change even if they cannot basically change settings on the
car by regulation, not because they can technically, but it's
(10:54):
a thing that's with the with the task we're with
the job we are doing in the esport and with
the autonomous challenge, and also with the with the real car,
can maybe create a new new technology for the future
for the real motor sport, for the standard car. And
we see already that some of the technology we developed
for the esport in this case is in terms of broadcast.
(11:17):
Now a lot of people is also doing for a
standard broadcast because they sort of smart. It's it's cheaper.
Also because you know esport uh doesn't let's say the
same budget the real sports, So basically you have to
be smarter. We can develop I'm talking about esport right now,
but I know that also with the autonomous challenges like
(11:39):
technology that now they use because they need to run
the car and competition, but when they can be used
for a regular car or for a new new technology
that can be included on the new racing card, maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of that that
sounds like a lot of things that I'm dealing with
too on a on a weekend by weekend basis, And
I'm curious about this, the fact that esports now in
many ways is leading motorsports in terms of developing some
of these new technologies. And earlier you talked about the
reception that your esports champions got on the podium at
(12:14):
SPA in twenty nineteen, and you know, people weren't necessarily
sure what to think about this with the esports drivers
being recognized alongside those that had raced together. But increasingly
we're seeing that perception changing. We're seeing esports being able
to lead the way. I think one interesting innovation you
talk about Fantech, they make equipment for esports competitions. Well,
(12:37):
the new BMWGT three car, the steering wheel is one
that you can take off of this new BMW racecar
and plug into your home simrig and vice versa. So
in many ways now we're seeing greater integration between esports
and actual motor sports. And with that, Lesuo, are you
seeing the perception of esports changing in the public at large?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, you're right. The challenge that fun at Tech faced
with that will was it was just the first one
because now I don't know if you saw so see
the same kate that they they created directly, not not
even for the for the simulator. CMQ well is now
on the GT car and it's something that can can
(13:23):
really do the job that was telling you before, so
less development costs which can do the same job as
the regular equipment and development on this in this case
can really push I had a smart production and I
will say yes, basically, this this way we to do
(13:45):
things once upon a time was just a sort of
joke for someone, but especially and I don't want to
send thanks to the COVID because it's not nothing good
with COVID, but at least they think that helped us
to showcase more was that a lot of people was
doing esport during the lockdown, including the F one drivers.
(14:08):
And since then I'm not going I'm going to lie,
but at the hours allowed of simulators and kipment for
simulation at the time was like crazy, so we cannot
We couldn't sell as much as we wanted at that
time because everyone was jumping in. And now when we
talk about this kind of thing, a lot of people companies,
(14:31):
a journalist, they are talking seriously.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I'll ask you.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Part of our focus with this series podcast series is
AI and what is the role of AI and motorsports
and autonomous vehicles in society? So clearly AI is a
big deal in the world of esport, right there was
a lot of headlines that were made when I think
(14:56):
an AI driver did incredibly well in in UH with
Sony's Grand Turismo UH competition and and so I guess
the question for you is do you see AI as
a positive thing in erasing? Do you see it as
(15:17):
a as a as a threat where the AI drivers
you know, just clearly start beating all the human drivers,
And so what's the point? What is your what is
your view of the role AI plays within within esports?
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, I think AI obviously is the next big thing.
It was already, It's not just today now. AI is
in everything we use, we do. Sometimes you have to
check if something is true or not. It's generated by
it's uh, it's complicated. But for espart, the first thing
(15:53):
I can see is the risk of cheating for sure,
because if I can develop on AI, either driving on
my bio fight would be difficult to check obviously, because
if an AI is able to control my pedals and
will it's like he's doing in your cars basically, which
as sending the input to their twitters, not for the
(16:16):
trot for the breaking system. So at the end of
the day, a wind better SOD for esport is by wire,
so there is no hydraulic so it's very similar. But
aside for that, I would say that can be cool
for sure for training purpose, it's big stuff because if
I want to train the best, having an AI that
(16:38):
can give you advice on basically on my own way
to dry and tell me what basically I can break
later or exit better in the corner. It's a job
that normally is the race engineer is doing. But a
race engineer has got just a limited quantity of data
to analyze and a limited the spears. Even if it's
(17:01):
a good the eras engineer. So having that I said
that I mean for me is a good thing, but
we need to right proper regulation. As in the other
field where AI is taking place, you know there's a
local complication when the I is taking over the human.
So for sure it wants to be it's a substitute
(17:25):
in the human, but the human needs to be able
to handle the development or a AI.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
You know, it's interesting to think about where AI is
in its journey, and in many ways, AI in the
digital environment, and e sports for now is in the
digital environment. Although you and I have talked about how
do you how do you blend an esport? There literally
(17:52):
could possibly be somebody driving a car in an esport
track and it's it's replicated in a car virtually in
the Indie Autonomous Challenge, So there may be a future
where you have an AI driver versus a human esports driver.
But in the digital realm, AI is getting to the
(18:13):
point where it is better than some of the best
drivers and therefore it's used as a training tool, as
a competitor, et cetera. But in the physical world, AI
in the physical realm where we are within the Autonomous Challenge,
and we still have quite a ways to go, right.
So you know, if you take one of our cars
(18:36):
and you put it out on a track against a
top Indie car driver or a race car driver, they're
gonna they're gonna whip us, and our car will get
confused and probably would stop racing at this point. But
you know where AI was five years ago in the
digital realm versus where it is today that is trending
(18:56):
toward moving into the physical world. And so when we
think five years out, ten years out, fifteen years out,
the progress that's being made in the digital world will
start to transfer into what is a more complicated challenge
for AI. And you know, I think that that opens
up a lot of opportunities, particularly for safety and mobility,
(19:17):
right because you know, being able to see an AI
driver in a digital world operate safely and efficiently is great,
it's but it's the physical world where we need to
save lives. We were talking to Sebastian thru and he was,
you know, mentioning that a million people a year die
in auto accidents, and so you know, this technology, once
(19:40):
we see it saving lives is going to really, I
think change the My belief is it'll change the public's
view and acceptance of the technology in that use case,
in the use case of mobility, where it's not making
ethical decisions necessarily, it's not making decisions about public policy
(20:01):
or deciding what's true or false, but is operating a
vehicle or an aircraft in a way that is more
efficient and safer.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Let's say that what you're doing with the autonomous challenge
is basically a little bit different from sim racing because
AI in the digital world is basically you are simulating
the real world, but in reality because at the end
of the day, the AI is simulating everything in the software,
but he has to apply the decision in the real word.
(20:35):
So for sure will be more difficult because you know
it's about also to improve sensor, to improve actuators and everything.
And I think also that's why probably you have such
a huge sponsor because that is like with that one
and the motorsport not it raised the bar the either
(20:56):
space with the other technology, so they need to have
something or because in the standard autonomous vehicle is not
there not going two hundred miles per hour, they will
never go at that speed. But if you find a
way to develop a technology that can really work in
a good way at that speed, probably is a lower
speed can do like do the same thing, like eating
(21:18):
a pizza. It's kind of easy stuff. And the thing
is that for sure, saving life is a target for
the technology you're developing. In my opinion, not just in
the standout cars, but even in the most sport because
if we we label to develop technology that we really
(21:42):
can avoid people's mistake because so far in my car,
if I break too late, probably yeah, it doesn't allow
to block the weak but they hang too fast that
we're still crashing into the wall kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But that actually anticipated my question. I'm curious what role
you feel esports has to play in developing some of
this technology, because you look at things like heads up
display and the amount of data that's available to a
gamer or a seam racing professional to make their decisions
to be a safer driver. In the same world, we're
seeing some of that stuff, especially in the heads up display,
(22:17):
creeping into road card technology today.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, for sure, and let's say that the seam drivers
can really act as test drivers. Yeah, because honestly, the
only different is that the to apply the decision the
AI or the software is doing. Obviously pull and exteam
need to transfer that command to the wheels, to all
(22:44):
the dynamic of the vehicle, which is not easy to manage.
For sure, they are thousands of data that you can have.
More obviously in the computer is easy. All the physics
of the computer is generated by the computer. So my opinion,
as we were saying before, it's a cheaper way and
faster to reach target because otherwise, if you're doing in
real life, how many to strive it you have and
(23:06):
the need to reach their life probably also to do
testing of such a too. You cannot go flat out
into the world to see if the guys like stopping
them not.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
This is a really important point and something we've talked about.
Unless you know the the ability to homologate to create
a common platform for autonomous algorithm training, which are teams
in India Autonomous Challenge use and benefit from greatly. Like
for example, the teams are now at Manza, UH doing
(23:40):
track days and of course you can't get that many
track days. You can't run hours and hours and hours,
you know, day after day at Manza. So before they
go there, they've got all kinds of detailed models of
the track and they're running them in AI simulators. And
if you think about an AI simulator you see them today,
(24:01):
uh that we use, they're they're not really meant to
reflect graphics or a graphical user interface for a human
erasing driver, because everything's happening in the background and the
point of the visual aspect is just for the team
to kind of have a sense of what's going on.
Reality is a team doesn't even need to see it.
They can just kind of get the report after the
(24:22):
simulation is run. But so this this merger of the
sophistication of what was gaming and into simulation and into
a level of simulator that is right there aligned with
the best autonomous simulators is something that I think we
(24:45):
can do UH as a as an industry fairly easily.
I mean, it's not it's not a it's not a
huge leap from where erasing is today and where the
autonomous UH simulators are today.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, it's free interesting. Our AI can really work in
every in every field, even in esport and gaming, to
deliver and industrial industrial content. And you know, automotive is
still one of the big business in the world right now.
It's it's it's a matter not just to develop autonomous vehicles.
(25:21):
But in my opinion, the next big thing on automotive
would be a mix of the two things, because, yeah,
and the freeway. I would like the car to try itself,
but honestly, when I drive myself on my mountains or
on the day, I want to drive myself with a
little bit more of safety. That would be cool for sure,
(25:43):
and especially if all the cars will have some autonomous
intelligence on board, so we avoid to these stupid things
and two different cars which kind of happen all the time.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Finally, from me at least, I'm curious about the future
of esports, especially with the development of virtual reality and
the level that that has gone to you hear Paul
talk about that augmentation of virtual and real bringing those
things together. Then you add AI into the mix. Where
do you see esports headed with these new emerging technologies
(26:18):
in developing technologies looking five or ten years down the line, Wow, five.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Ten years, five ten years is very long forecast for
espert especially let's say I'm a virtual reality here, augmented
reality and EI together, can we make the difference next years?
I'm more into augmented reality because obviously can be more flexible.
Instead of the virtual reality, I would like to have
(26:47):
like us in driver racing an in as simulator, but
actually actually racing a real cart truck. So, as Paul
was saying before, maybe quan do a short time with
autonomous challenge is something that we triggered. It is triggering
a lot of me. Uh So it's uh, I see
(27:07):
this kind of arcatagy because mutually the reality is already
there is already strong. I mean a lot of development
also in there, and the automotive is relying on on
this and these tools.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
The last question I have Lesio is you know, India
Autonomous Challenge is very much a global competition. We're we're
holding our first event now and in Europe at Manza.
We have teams from Asia, from from throughout Europe, from
the United States. Your your work and the progress that's
(27:43):
been made in in esport and the blending of esport
with motorsports events in Europe has been incredible over the
last last handful of years. But sort of what are
your plans over the next couple of years to to
take what you're doing UH to the to the to
the global scale.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I said that our big target is for sure United States,
so it's it's not a secret. We are working very
very hard to make this happen in a short time.
I think the market now is really uh US market
is different from the European You're right, but not because
(28:23):
they say in the United States they don't love MUTI forty.
In the United States, the motorsport is a little bit
different from European, so we we don't know very well
the American motorsport, and Americans probably don't know very well
the European motorsport. That's why no, we align on F
one F one, but you came in the US, and
in the US, okay, F one is getting bigger, but
(28:45):
still in Indie and NASCAR, so we are not talking
about our our let's say, championship. And but I realized
that the let's said, the passion for motorsport is even higher.
So I saw a lot of compute teach anyway, with
with everything with whales, obviously we need to deal with
(29:05):
the budget, with equipment, with everything, but it's it's it's happening,
so just a matter of when. But it's not a
clue that we are going to do this and next
next up would be for sure, Middle East is growing
a lot. Obviously it's not it's not as sacree that
the budget and Middle East are like blowing for different reasons,
(29:30):
but it's uh, it's a region which is really growing
a lot in motor sport and also in similism. Asia
for sure is another big but it's really too much
from fragmented. It's not easy to manage and probably won't
be won't be our target and Latin America is another
big region where motorsport and sim racing especially currently have
(29:52):
got good results. But obviously we take time.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I hope, so looking forward to seeing you at a
race here in the States very very soon.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
If you need an announcer, that's right, I already made
my plug if you've always started recording, so yeah, absolutely,
I know.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And I got to be involved in the Sro America
Esports Championship in twenty twenty, like you're talking about, when
everybody wasn't at a real racetrack for a few months there,
we found a way to replace it virtually and that
certainly went a long way to changing perceptions I think
to esports generally. But that's another conversation for another time.
For now, Alessio, we have to be conscious of your time.
(30:29):
Thank you so much. Really enjoyed the conversation. Hope to
see you soon.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Thank you, Thank you bus.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Thanks for joining us this week on the inside track.
That was Alessio Chiicolauri see EGO and founder of the
AK Group, helping us understand how the growing world of
esports is contributing to some exciting new technology. Next week
we'll take a look at how some of the technology
being developed at the IAC has found its way into
(30:59):
a few more industries than just race cars. Author and
AI evangelist for kyp dot Ai, Sarah Burnett joins us
to offer her research into how AI might start saving
lives both on and off the track. Thanks to the
ie d C and the IAC for keeping us on
the inside track.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.