Intermat Podcast Iowa vs Penn State + New Rules Proposal + Injuries crushing top talent - IWP 1-29-25

It's the week of the biggest dual of the year - Penn State vs Iowa. We look into the top matches, where Iowa can win and the trash talking at 184. We also dig into the new rules proposal meeting coming up and the rules we would like to see added along with how injuries have sidelined a number of All-Americans this year.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
00:30 - Talk on Rules Proposals
28:11 - Injuries in Wrestling
36:08 – EIWAs, ACC, Big Ten recap
51:05 – Trash talk and Iowa-Penn State breakdown
01:10:14 - Closing Thoughts

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what's happened in wrestling fans. We are back, but
it's just the three of us this week, Robbie taking
a little break much needed. We'll see him back next
week when we talk about title contenders and revisit our
preseason picks, which is something we haven't done yet, and
we'll talk about that on next week. But this week
we've got Iowa Penn State to talk about a little

(00:20):
bit of trash talk been going on or at least restarted,
I guess I should say. And then the rules proposal,
where a lot of coaches have been tweeting about that
stuff and just a lot of people in general have
been digging into that. And then we'll get into injuries,
as there was another one I believe that Willy put
out maybe yesterday that should be added to the list
of guys that have hit the podium in the past

(00:43):
that will not be seeing it this year because they're
out for the season. And first I want to start rules,
the rules proposal, and every year everybody throws out you
know what needs to change, And the first one for
me was the first tweet that I scene was who
was coach Ward had said something about rules. The rule

(01:04):
proposal and kind of really started that conversation, honestly, because
I don't think a lot of people realize that it
was happening. And he threw his list out there, and
then a lot of other people started to kind of
jump on, and you know, now there's a conversation between
Bono and Piles, which surprise that's even happening if you know,
from from my standpoint of knowing how those two operate.

(01:28):
I guess I should say, but there's a lot of
other talk out there, right and you know, I wanted
to pick your guy's brains of people that are lifelong
wrestling and wrestlers, I guess I should say, not even
just wrestling people, but wrestlers of like, what rules that

(01:48):
we recently have would you like to see change fixed
or added to what we have now? Kevin, I'm going
to go to you to start out order some of
these things that you're like, we need to fix that.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
For sure, still can shout out Scotty Santez, Chippewa Champs Campbell.
One of the suggestions I saw that he had was
eliminating the double boots and then throwing the power half
in and it.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
You know, a I generally think I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
There's you know, you see a couple of guys who
are you know, good enough with their hips or however
you want to describe it that get people to actually
turn from there. I always use that just as like
a breakdown into work other stuff, and then you know,
eventually change it up, because that's what people are listening for,
is what what my style looks like. It's a middling
high school wrestler.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Point being.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
If you know, at this level you got guys who
were so strong and they're just tearing each other's shoulders
to pieces, and you know there's still, for whatever reason,
the old school mentality with refs where they're like you
don't like it, go over and it's like, nope, you're
just destroying people, Like we'll.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Be there in the first place, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Don't until you get out of everything.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Don't get it exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
So it's just you know, there's there's some something has
to change with that, right, whether it's the you know,
you can't throw double boots and a power half in,
or if maybe there just needs to be some closer
change or you know, something else to look at to
make sure we're not just surround you know, people's shoulders
quite as frequently. But on that same point, I started

(03:28):
to think, all right, well, we're getting a lot of
injuries and people are getting hurt, and maybe it's some
of the funk and maybe you know, where are some
of these positions that maybe would have been called a
takedown or are like kind of on the edge takedowns.
Like if you're flattened out and you're holding a single
leg and your head is on the inside or the
outside for that matter, and the other person's kind of

(03:49):
cutting the corner and they hook the leg and they
generally are under both arms, but you're still holding onto
that leg.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
I think that should be a takedown. What do you
at that point?

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You're just hoping to maybe pass it or start rolling
through and creating some stuff. But it's like, no, like
that's ninety percent of a takedown, and I think we
should round up.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
From ninety I just kind of created that piece.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
All right, if it's ninety percent of a takedown, it
should be a takedown from now on, because I feel
like some of those scrambles and weirdness is how people
end up getting hurt.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
Yeah, that's that's a good point too.

Speaker 5 (04:21):
Because like to tell you onto that, how many times
have you seen that same exact position. The point of
a takedown is to show control. Right, if you're just
laying there praying for a stalemate, are you really in control?
I mean you're you're giving up a lot of control, right,
So yeah, that's I think that's.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
A case by case scenario. It could get tricky.

Speaker 5 (04:41):
But you know, just hearing you say that, I do
agree with something like that where it's like, hey, if
the guy's showing control, you can't move.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
Just because you have my leg doesn't mean it's not
a takedown.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
You know, with that you can reach back from bottom
and grab my leg too.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah on top, I'm still in control.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, my thought on the double boots thing, and I
don't know, I've seen, I saw, you know, I actually
have the tweet up in front of me right now,
and I feel like it's a tough one for me,
right because you see guys like Ridge love it, who

(05:19):
are really good who is a really good leg rider
throws boots will turn a guy you know, mean how
we just saw him turn Van Nest two weeks ago, right,
Obviously that that was a different situation where he didn't
use double boots in a power half, but he's very
good with throwing legs in and I think that like
the hard part for me is like there are guys

(05:40):
that are very good there who will throw in double
boots and use it as a breakdown, use it as
a way to ride, and they're not using a power half, right,
So do you get rid of the combination of the
two together and say double boots and a power half
is what we want to get rid of. Do you
make that like a five count? Right? Like if if

(06:02):
there is no turning, do you, you know, hit a
guy forestalling or call the first one potentially dangerous? Like
how do you really police that one?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Right?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Because it's it's a wrestling move that we've seen for
years and years and years, and now you want to
kind of like football, police the brutality out of the sport,
right where you don't want to hit a guy too high.
In football, you don't want to hit a guy too low.
There's roughing the passers, all this kind of stuff. Do
you is it does it become something that is so

(06:31):
subjective where you're like, man, I there's a gray area, right,
like if the guy is really fighting, if you're using
it to turn. If you're safely using it, how do
you police that or do you just say this can't
be used anymore? Right, Like that's the thing for me.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
I think, you know, most of these moves you can
say have been used forever. Right, The double inside headlock
was used forever until it, you know, essentially won Chris
Perry in a national champion and they were like.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Man, that was awful to watch, and we maybe take
that out.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
It was that in the Delgado like ankle ride, right,
Like I watch you know, kids ride ankles all day
long at youth wrestling. It's not fun, you know, but
like at some point it's got to progress. And these
guys are big enough to make adjustments and talented enough
to make adjustments. Maybe a five count is the right
idea there. Hey, if you don't get them turned to

(07:26):
some degree, if you're not getting them off the mat
and they're just getting their shoulder cranked, I'm just gonna
count it.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
We're gonna stop it.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, Yeah, I agree with that. Like I said, I
don't think that it should be like we can't use
that anymore because there are guys that are effective throwing
legs in breaking a guy down and working their offense
off of that, right, But then there are guys that
throw boots in and they just want to hold the
guy down. They no, there's no other rhyme or reason

(07:53):
for them to have double boots in outside of I'm
just gonna hold here and we're just gonna ride this out.
I want my writing time point or in the case
of Dayton, fix in the finals, I want to just
ride things out ultimately that one will stop so very different,
but you know, the way that people are using it,
I think that's where you have to use your discretion. Obviously,

(08:16):
we don't want to give too much more power to
the refs because we've seen how they can absolutely screw
things up. If you've watched any wrestling over the last
couple of weeks, you would notice that. So that, you know,
like I said, I would love to see guys be
kept it like, be kept from being harmed, obviously, and

(08:42):
that is ultimately what I think, you know, a rule
like that would be, you know, and he even said,
these guys shoulders are getting completely torn apart, like we
gotta fix this somehow, and that that's my thought with
the rule that I was thinking of, and it's I
don't know, it's not I don't think it's like anti
scrambling or whatever. But like I understand that guys have

(09:05):
a rubber knee, some guys where they can bend and
whatever else. But there are guys that abuse the potentially
dangerous in that situation where a guy gets in and
he's immediately diving across and you know, bending his leg
into disgusting looks and has people kind of oohing and

(09:27):
on and looking away. Right, I think that if and
I've said this on like a number of like broadcasts
when I'm doing commentary, if a guy puts himself there
or a girl puts herself there with bending your knee
and it's called potentially dangerous, I honestly think if you
put yourself there, it should be stalling because you're you're

(09:49):
it's not like you went through the situation. You roll
through it and now your legs are tangled up, or
now your arms tangled up, you can't get out of it,
whatever else. Stuff like that happens. Like these are elitest ramblers.
But if you're diving to you know, if your defense
is to immediately bend your leg into a pretzel, it's

(10:09):
in hopes of getting a potentially dangerous and stopping the
momentum of the match. That's stalling. Its just I think
for me, it is like textbook stalling because you're stopping
the flow of the match. So that was what came
to me, is just like, we need to stop guys
from putting themselves in danger and having the refs bail
them out.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Yeah, because how many times you see the defensive wrestler
do that and their coaches yelling watches me watches exactly
like because you guys should want to stop you know,
I agree there.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, So that that was that was one that that
kind of came to mind for me. Austin, any any
thoughts on on rules that that kind of popped in
your head?

Speaker 5 (10:50):
Well, the two obvious ones that I think we kind
of preach every week is Matt sizes need to be bigger, Like, ye,
how can you have how can you still be in
the circle and completely off the playing field touching hardwood
at the same It doesn't make any like no other
sport really does that.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
It's just strange.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
Team points taking those away is stupid as well, Like
come on, like I think we're on the same page there.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
You talked about Kevin Ward. He had a good one too.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
It doesn't affect too many people, but that certification descent
plan of the weight management. You know, you can only
lose one point five percent per week of body fat,
you know, so it takes a forty one pounder a
month to get down from one forty one to thirty three,
or a thirty three pounds of twenty Like, this shouldn't
take a month to do. We've all been in practices

(11:38):
where no matter what your weigh, you can lose five
pounds in a practice and it's all waterweight.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
I understand the safety aspect, but his point was, hey,
let's just tweak that a little bit, make it two
and a half percent, you know, make these guys go
down a weight class over two weeks, three weeks instead
of four or five.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, I agree with that, And I I never had
like hydration testing, never had plans. I didn't have any
of that, Like yeah, I mean, hell, our certification was
our coach writing down the weight we were going to
wrestle at the state tournament and us going to the
nurse and them using the body fat calipers, and then
they were like, yeah, here you're you're certified at one, right, Like,

(12:16):
that's what mine was. That was the end.

Speaker 5 (12:18):
They always grabbed a little extra skin in that caliber
to make a little extra, little.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Extra bit, right. Our coach actually used to make us
do it at the end of the season too, just
to see how things changed, and it was always pretty
damn drastic. But yeah, like I mean, like I said,
I've never been in that position. But I think that's
also a really good change because these essentially these guys
are professionals and they're surrounded by you know, medical people

(12:43):
that are policing this stuff. So let's cut it down,
you know, let's allow guys to you know, still have
to get down gradually so that they are doing it safe,
but make it like, you know, two weeks, three weeks,
something like that, so that it's not not so bad. Right,
And I completely agree with that that that definitely is
something that should be changed along with you know, let's

(13:06):
get rid of head gear. Can we can we get
rid of that?

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Take an optional on a minimum, right, It's doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
I think that option, yeah, optional, And I think so
let me ask this. My understanding with freestyle is if
you come out there with the head gear and your
other and your opponent doesn't have a head gear, they
can then request that you take your head gear off. Yes,
and you have to yes, So I don't think you
should have to in this instance. Like if you want

(13:33):
to wear a head gear, you can wear a head gear.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, Because the funny part about that is if if
you come out with a head gear and your opponent doesn't,
you can't request for them to put one on. Right,
person that doesn't have one on can request for you
to take yours off. So like yeah, and I mean
obviously it's it's different because it's an international style and
people internationally aren't really wearing head gear, so that's where
it's at. But like, yeah, it is. It is a

(13:57):
very awkward rule of like I'm not wearing a head gear,
so you're not wearing a head gear? Yeah, Like why
do I have that power?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
I never understood that, and I guess, like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
I've heard people tell me recently like because I wear
a head gear when.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
I wrestle now and because my ear is hurt if.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
I don't, and they're like, oh, your higer's scratching my face.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
I'm like what, I've never like, have you ever experienced that.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I've never only with Todd Tornadoes Cheese Greater on the side.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I've never had that ever happen to me anyway.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
But I don't know, maybe I'm not sticking my face
in there enough and actually wrestling.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
Get in there a little bit.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Get out of ear to ear, you know, get in there. No,
I've never The only time that that's ever happened is
you know, tornado head gears, because there's that, you know,
that Cheese Greater, like I said, on the side of it.
But I do think head gear should be optional. The
other thing that And I'm going to go back to
the Bono Piles conversation because I'm kind of stumbled on

(14:59):
it when I signed on Twitter and you know, you're
just kind of scrolling through and it pops up. You
never know whose tweet you're going to see, and there
it was, and I was obviously shocked because I'm like,
you know, like I said, I know the contention between
the two of them, but it's it's weird that they

(15:23):
would be arguing about saunas. And I feel like everyone
has been arguing about saunas for the longest time, and
a lot of teams have saunas or steam rooms in
their locker rooms because they're allowed to but they're not
allowed to use them. And you know, I say that
with air quotes. You know, you're not allowed to use

(15:45):
these things. Whether or not they get used is just
like recruiting violations, Like if it gets reported and the
NCAA finds out, then you get you know, then you
get punished for it. But it's the same thing. And
I think they were having they were arguing two completely

(16:06):
different points because Bono was saying, every year somebody tries
to say something about saunas and we talk about it.
He literally said, we talked about it for point six
seconds and then it's gone. And Piles is like, well,
why why don't you guys stop striking it down, And
it's like, the coaches aren't the ones that are striking
down the use of saunas. The coaches had it their way,

(16:28):
saunas would be completely legal from the use, Rubber suits
would be completely legal from the use, because all of
these things are now done in safer ways than the
antiquated rules that are used to police them. It's not
about the coaches. It is about the NCAAA and how
they want to keep people alive. The wild thing about

(16:48):
that is that when you look at other sports a
lah football, and they're doing two a days in the
heat and there's an acclimating there's like you literally have
acclimate days where you're out in the heat for a
very long time to get your body acclimated to being
out there wearing pads being hot. There's obviously more things

(17:09):
that are mandated in football now, but you're allowing the
unsafety of an acclamation day in the terrible heat where
we have seen way more football players die from heat
exhaustion than we've ever seen from a wrestler dying from
the same thing, from a sauna from dehydration. So I

(17:30):
think that they need to kind of catch up. But
that's more. I don't think that they shouldn't propose it.
I think they should propose it every damn year. Honestly,
I think it should always be something that is on
the table because it does have a number of health benefits.
I'd literally sit in the sauna almost twice a day,
and it has a number of health benefits outside of

(17:52):
just helping you lose weight. So I think that's the
side of things that they should try to propose is like,
you know, yes, can it be abused, certainly, But we
can also monitor these things better where we can put
a timer on our sauna where it's only on for

(18:13):
two hours three hours, right like, when we're only allowed
we have this many people, these are the people that
are allowed to use it, and it's only on for
this amount of time, and then it's and it's off
for two hours where you you know, no one can
be in there because it literally won't turn on. Like
I understand that's a little bit drastic, but like it's
a way to kind of police it. So again, they're

(18:36):
having two separate conversations where Bono's like, hey, this is
not us and Biles is like, well, why aren't you talking?
Why are you striking it down. It's like, let's you know,
let's it's apples and oranges right now. But I do
think that saunas should be legal for college students to use,
because I mean, let's call it what it is. And
I'm sure guys are already using them, and they they're

(18:59):
smarter about using them even if they are.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, I mean, let's let's think about other ways that
people are cutting weight, right, Like, there are worse ways
to cut weight. We saw it to eat ei w
as last year, right, like it was a crappy situation.
So like, there's other ways to ago two years ago. Sorry, yeah,
you know there's it's there's worse ways to do this right.

(19:26):
And again, you already talked about the health benefits. You
already talked about all those other things, and and I
don't I'm gonna pause for the moment to really focus
on the fact that I am not taking light any
serious issues with with people dying in the past or
anything like that.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
My comment here is not that.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
But my comment is I think that you know, it's
getting shot down by the NCAA and the voting bodies
because of headlines more than they're shooting it down for
anything else. They don't want that headline about so and
so died. They were doing the sauna, they were in
this suit. It's like, no guys are going to make weight,
and they're going to make weight in potentially less healthy
ways because that's what these guys do, you know. So

(20:10):
you know, if you give them a passive way to
lose some weight and maybe you know, work on their
mentality and think through things as they sit there and sweat,
probably in the long run, that's a better solution than
just grinding on an aerodyne for another half hour, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yeah, I saw coach Tony Ramos was saying, you know,
they provided studies. I think you said to the NCAA
about how beneficial they are, and there's actually legit studies
out there done by real scientists and everything that.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Says, hey, these are good for you.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
Here's why X y Z and you know, no cigar
on that, but yeah, I just think there's studies out there,
It's evidence is out there.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
I don't know what what the pushback would be, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, I think I think Heaven's right about the headlines.
There was once one headline was too many, and they
don't want to see that happen ever again. Not I
mean nobody ever, nobody wants to see it happen ever again.
But you also have to say, you know, this was
it was probably misuse, right, Like we're a lot smarter

(21:10):
about doing these things now than what we were, So
you know, I think that would be that would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
When you're not going to take away outdoor football practices exactly,
you know, like you can't do it outdoors air conditioned.
Only it's like nope, not everybody has that.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
And not everybody has the pockets of LSU who has
helmets with air conditioning in them? Now, right, like like, let's.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Let's see wrestling team. How's that? How's that possible?

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I'm I'm sure that we
could look down the line items of many of the
biggest college football teams out there and be like, really,
just like one percent of your budget would be just
fine for probably two years to fund a wrestling team,
very very much. So could definitely happen. You know, we

(22:04):
say this as we you know, get the news this
week of Cleveland State and everybody's talking about talking about that,
and I mean from I saw a clip of it
was at spay talking about how it's way more of
a financial thing than it really is, like a funding
thing for them. It's a school financial problem where the

(22:26):
school is like bankrupt. So I mean that's the case,
then you have a little bit more sympathy for the
school if the school is having mismanager problems and they're
not just like we're getting rid of this like other programs.
We're getting rid of this because we want to give
them money to football or basketball or whatever else. The
schools having funding issues, then there really isn't much that
you can do. The school has to get their shit together,

(22:48):
not the athletic department. So that is kind of is
what it is. But that was rules proposal. You guys,
have any other rules or any other any other kind
of situations you see in wrestling, and you're like, we
need to need a rule for this.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
I got, I got one more. I always harp on.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
A lot of times there's it seems like coaches get
endless challenges in these matches because they'll want the ref
to look at it again and kind of bully the
ref into reviewing his own call. And then it's like, well,
who's challenging here because they already use their challenge and
they lost it. Yeah, you see that too often. It's
you know, the big name coaches trying to get a challenge. Oh,

(23:29):
you don't have any left, but I'll look at it.
This is on me, the ref, and it's like, no, ref,
if you make a call, stick by it unless you
truly want to look at it. Fine, but don't get
bullied by these ref by these coaches to look at
things again. And just we all hate these reviews. They
take forever, they never they very rarely change, so it's
like you're stopping the flow of the match and the momentum.

(23:51):
That's just one thing that really bugs me. And I'm
not sure.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
I'm not sure how many people talked about it. I
didn't see it much.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
But that's just a personal personal thing i'd love to
see get rid of.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I agree, there's a lot of coaches will throw their
challenge brick first thirty seconds and then somehow we're doing
it six or seven more times.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
The I mean kind of in that that same vein
is we need to figure out a way to have
independent review. Whenever we can have independent review, Yes, you know,
they made it a rule a couple of years ago.
I thought it was you know, I obviously got to
be a part of the Journeyman event in Nashville where
they had independent review, and it was I that was

(24:33):
probably the most effective review process I've seen, where if
there was a review and it was a challenge, then
the challenge was done by an independent referee where he's
not he's he's probably watching the match, but he you know,
he's not really paying attention to the matches, he comes over,

(24:56):
he watches the recording and then he makes his decis
He asked what the decision, like, what was the call
that was made on the mat? The you know, the
referee that was on the mat tells him what his
decision was. He said, okay, let me watch it. And
it goes from there. If it was a refs review,
the ref on both both refs on the mat would
watch the video, right, And it was a it was

(25:18):
a completely divvid up process, even to point where the
referees that were on the math it was an independent review,
They're in the middle of the map. They're nowhere near
the video to influence the independent ref So like and
honestly like it. It just took what was it? I mean,
they had a number of referees obviously, I think they
had what two for nine or ten referees for over

(25:43):
a two day period. And you know, if you don't
have the budget, don't have the budget, right, But like,
if if there's a way for you to hire three
referees for a doo meet, say the app State Doo
Meet Virginia Tech doom Meat. That happened a couple of
weeks ago where it was an Honestly, it was an
absolute shit show at one sixty five that those referees

(26:07):
should not have been. One they probably shouldn't have been
reugh in that match, but two they shouldn't have been
watching their own challenges back and you know, and rehashing
their own So like, I feel like there has to
be and obviously it comes down to school budgets again,
it's always going to be a follow of the money
kind of a thing. But when you can have an

(26:27):
independent referee call it, three referees at a duel meet,
one of them is independent and the other two are
on the mat, that is how things I believe should
be run, because it's just so bad because a lot
of these times, you know, you run into these referees
who are not going to change their call. Most of
the time, they're going to stick with what they said.

(26:48):
The other thing that I've heard people say is, well,
his buddy isn't going to change the call either. His
buddy's going to stick with them. It's like, yeah, many
times as you can see that even just having the
semblance of an independent referee is still better than the
ref on the map considering his own calls.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
Well, correct me, if I'm wrong. They do that at
NCAA's now, right with the independent reviews, I believe.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, they're all independent, and it goes to it it
goes to a review room, yeah, where the videos go.
So they just kind of paying the room and they're
watching them, not even on the mat. So yeah, it's
it's very different now at NCAA's and it used to be,
so thank god for that.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Yeah, part of me kind of obviously it's tough to
do with what six mats going on, eight mats going
on NCAA's, but you know, starting that review process earlier
before the product the challenges initiately, you know, like the
NFL does. If it's a close play, they'll start looking
at it and prep like, oh, there's a challenge possibly coming,
let's make sure we get this call right. Again, that's

(27:46):
wishful thinking, probably, but just to kind of speed some
of these reviews up to they take too long sometimes.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah they do, they certainly do. But yeah, that was
you know, some of the things that kind of came
to mind. We'll certainly see what comes of the rules
proposals going forward, but hopefully some things start to change
and we get some better rule sets for sure. Next,

(28:12):
let's go injuries, because there's been a number of them,
and Earle has done a really good job of keeping
track of and he wrote an article yesterday that's on
the homepage right now in intermatt the list of all
Americans from last year that are injured. We've got Volk,

(28:33):
We've got Negau, ragasins for Durski, Waters, Elam, Bustita Gadali.
And then I believe Willie said that Munnos, Trey Munos
is out as well, and we'll probably be looking to
get a red shirt, a medical red shirt. The last
time he competed was December seventh and hasn't competed since,

(28:55):
so very good possibility that Munos could be looking for
one of those. And then, I mean, obviously the one
where we're not we're not sure yet is you know
our boy at Lee High at one thirty three, We're
not sure what's happening there. Do you do you actually
have any updates on Crookham No.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
I was going to reach out this week. They got
a match coming up.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
I was going to try and run into those guys
and see what the vibe is there. I mean, my
gut is that he's done for the year, but you know,
talking to them the last few weeks, it's there's still
a glimmer of hope, you know. So it's again not
officially out for the season. People say that, you know,
I just don't think that's official yet because there is
a there is a small chance he could come back,

(29:43):
will he? I don't think so, you know, But I
don't want to make that, you know, assumption officially, you
know what I.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Mean, yeah, for sure, And I mean I don't think
we ever talked about the tweet that went out about
him being out, and how honestly, from from the way
I'm looking at it, it looks like people are hoping
he can't return this year so that they can be
right about the situation. And it's just like hoping that

(30:13):
a guy is out injured just for you to be
correct is pretty wild. I hope that he if he
does not come back, that he comes back stronger, right,
that he gets the help that he needs, whether it's surgery,
whether it's rehab, whether it's you know, whatever it is.

(30:33):
But like I'm never going to be like I'm keeping
tabs on this to see, you know, for when it
all comes out and I'm correct, Like just just stop.
Just stop the thing.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
The thing I'm worried about, you know at this point
to some extent, is that like let's use one thirty
three for an example, right, and let's come back or not. Right,
Let's say perfect world, Crookham comes back, he's completely healthy,
Russell's excellent, and who knows what the results end up

(31:07):
looking like. Right, But I think more often than not,
when you have a pretty devastating injury and somebody comes back,
they're not ever going to really be their full selves.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Again.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Not everybody is Carter Starachi, right, Like we've got all
these NFL teams hiring old quarterbacks, but not everybody's Tom Brady.
Most of them look like Aaron Rodgers. Right, Yeah, that's
just how it works. But independent of that, it's like,
I don't want to hear at the end of the
year any asterisks on any of these because of how

(31:37):
many people were injured or whatever, you know what I mean, Like,
that's just oh, so and so would have wanted if
you were there.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Well it wasn't there, you know, right, Like it sucks.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, And like I always look back and I remember, gosh,
I think it was one forty one. Kyle Dake when
he wanted that freshman year, Kellen Russell was out with
the staff infection, and I think bj Futrell had tore
up his knee. He might have been down at one
thirty three though, but I thought he was up at

(32:07):
one forty one.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Year he might have been I.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Just remember being very skinny back then.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
But that was just another version of a guy where
it's like that guy was had a good chance at
winning it and then got hurt and it was like
that was the end of his college career and it
just sucked, you know. So it's just how it is.
You know, injuries happened. It's part of the sport. It's
a it's a bummer. We always want everybody to be
healthy at NCAA's and to wrestle their potential and it

(32:36):
doesn't always happen.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
But you know, look at your Detroit Lions clunch. I
mean they were on a roll.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Yeah, injuries happened, and then you know it's it affected him,
it does, but you know, it's just part of the sport.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
You can't stop Jaden Daniels, the guy who was bagging
the groceries last week.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
As it turns out.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Well, one team can stop him.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
But one team good, well they weren't injured.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean injuries, it is it's part
of the sport. And you're right, like anyone that says, oh, well,
this wouldn't happen if he was you know, so and
so was healthy or whatever else, I mean health, David
Taylor was healthy, then we wouldn't have World Team member
Pat Downey like like it's fine, right, like it happened.

(33:24):
So no, I hate that we have like the long list.
I mean, the list is even longer than this. I
just read off a list of all Americans from last
year that are you know, or not even last year,
last year or the year before right returning, all Americans
that aren't in the lineups this year because of injury,

(33:44):
you know, and that really sucks. And then we also
have Henson who's out right NCAA champ last year and
he's out right now he's going to be coming back,
but he's banged up, and who knows when he's he's
going to be coming back. Thankfully, this past week we
got Jacory Teamer back and you know that that match

(34:05):
was like, man, it's it's it's awesome to see these
two guys wrestling right now because Teamer could barely walk
off the mat. Sasso was in the damn hospital fighting
for his life. Like and these two guys right like
back on the mat was just awesome, right, and and
so seeing that match was really cool. And I love

(34:26):
the the the way that they hugged afterwards, Like, I mean,
those guys are they're those guys are pretty cool. They're
they're pretty tight, and you know, they're pretty cool with
each other, and you saw that at the end of
the match, just how just how tight they were.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
So crazy thing about that, Teamer said that was the
first time that he wrest alive since coming back. Yeah,
it was against an NCAA runner up multiple time All American.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
It didn't really phase him.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
He was out there won to wrestle, which to me,
like I want to get a little bit alive in
me before I go out after I injury like that.
But right I'm different, I guess, you know.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, that was that was definitely that was interesting
when he said that, But like not, I mean, if
you think about it, I think the same could have
been said for Carterisharachi going to NCAAs, even though I
mean he didn't he didn't have like time to recover
right and get back healthy. But he you know, he
was not going live either, right, so like obviously different circumstances.

(35:28):
But yeah, the fact that he waited until it was
a live whistle and he's in front of the fans
to really test things out pretty wild. And he looked strong.
He looked very strong. So good to have him back
for sure. And you know the number one guy is
is back in the line up or you know, back
in the lineup for Iowa and makes them even stronger.

(35:48):
And it's awesome that he was able to test that
before they wrestle Penn State because it's you know, it's
gonna be an awesome matter which we'll get to here
in a second, but it's going to be an awesome
match at one fifty seven between iowaen Penn State. So
good to have, good to have team were back in
the lineup for sure. But let's let's move on. Let's

(36:13):
do some recaps and from last week, Austin, I want
to start with you what went on in the e
w A, What what matchups were the big ones and
really kind of caught you by surprise or that you
took notice.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
Of, Yeah, we kind of talked before we came on here.
Drexel looked pretty good.

Speaker 5 (36:31):
They beat Buttonnell and Buttonnell went on to be Army
who Army was ranked twenty fourth in the country. You know,
so a lot of a lot of competitiveness here in
the i w A. The Buttonnell Army match was a
really fun one if you guys want to go back
and watch them.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Good wrestling.

Speaker 5 (36:49):
Seven one score matches out of the ten bouts, and
Buttonnell won every single one of them, which you know
you used to see in close matches. But for all
seven to go to team I thought was pretty pretty crazy.
And you know, just but Nell kind of be the
underdog there winning was pretty cool. Yeah, I mean that
that's pretty much it here. That in the i w

(37:12):
A IVY there were some interesting results. The main upset
I saw was Columbia's Jack McGill, unranked major number seven
from Penn.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Nick and Contrera.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
Kind of dominate them there with a major and you know,
Penn ended up winning that one over Columbia, and then
Princeton put a beat down on Columbia thirty four to three,
which I thought that match would be a lot closer.
Columbia had a few a few guys out, you know,
not many, but I think Princeton's lost to Ryder the
night before kind of fueled that a little bit to

(37:49):
come back and beat Columbia there, and you know, Cornell
doing Cornell things dominating. But yeah, and this week Penn
has two matches and I'll be on the micro both
of them on Sunday ESPN Plus. So if you want
to listen to me talk a little bit, tune in there.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
You go that awesome Kevin what what what caught your
eye in the Big Ten?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
So I got home from UH from coaching Friday night
and I was like, Oh, throw on this Nebraska Michigan duel.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Can't be as bad as it was last year.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
M hm, that was worse.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
It was worse.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, Nebraska won the first eight matches. Nebraska looks great,
and you knew that most of those were favored and
Michigan's got to figure out what they're doing at one
twenty five and one thirty three, and and you know,
it's funny I say that, and as I say that,
I'm like, no, I think that's kind of what they're doing,
Like that's probably their best option. They're not throwing out
planing c and hoping it's going to work again, right,

(38:54):
So you know they've got a they've got to shore
up where they've got some strengths and and get it
together from that standpoint.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
And but you know, Cardinas looked great. He gotta win.
Heinzelman looked good. You gotta win.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
The brock Hardy and Sergio Lemley match was was awesome
to watch, even if Flemley you know, didn't get to win.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
But there was a lot of.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Good scrambles on there that that Hardy came out with as.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
He like those guys always wrestle good matches.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Those dude, they're just always fun to watch, man, They're
they're always scrambling around. Hardy is just so impressive with
what he's able to do. He's another one of those
guys where like he doesn't do the trick need the outside,
he does it like to the inside. Yeah, and then
like sits the corner and it's just always just that
leg never ends and you're you're holding on to the ankle,

(39:40):
but his hip is behind you somehow.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
And like you're in a cradle on your back. It's
like how the hell, how do I get here?

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, Like you ever seen somebody in a SPLAYO look
so comfortable because like it just didn't hurt at all.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Like Hardy was just more mad at.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Himself that he ended up there than it was like
actually painful. Penn State remains the greatest team and I've
ever seen.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, but lill Adult took a loss, his first loss
of the.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Year, he did. Yeah, but exactly my point. Without that loss,
they shut out Rutgers.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, who just beat Illinois the next two days later. Yeah,
you know, and shout out to to Slavakuski for forgetting
you know, he had the coming off of what was
it the week before that he lost to Feldman to
decide that duel, so it comes down to him this time.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
He gets the.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Win over Leffman, another really really good Big ten heavyweight.
They've got plenty of them there.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Tell you what, that that backsided heavyweight at NCAA's is
going to be something special because you you've got Luffman
who beat Keeter, Keeter, who beat Feldman, Feldman who beat
everybody Like it's it is a never ending just like
transitive property of who the hell is going to come
out of this?

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Eight of the top twelve heavyweights currently are Big ten guys. Yeah,
it's unsurprising, but yeah, a lot of good wrestling, a
lot of good stuff going on. I got a shout
out Chippawat Challenge. I know I did a little bit
at the beginning. Campbell got it done. Three and zero

(41:21):
and their duels the cal State Bakersfield had a really
really good tournament.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
They were two and one.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
They are only lost, I believe was a one point
loss to Campbell.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
That was Sunday. I think that sounds right.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
American one and two. They had a close one with
Campbell as well. Actually they got smoked by Bakersfield. And
then Central Michigan, who I did absolutely pick is my
favorite to win it. When zero and three, I had
an injury to Mason Schrader in their first match.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Against Campbell, but no excuses.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
We're not putting an asterisk on this to do it
for everybody else, so I'm not going to do it here.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Central got got beat on. Man.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
They got to figure out how to get some more
points on the board.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
As my dad used to say.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Let's seventy four point of Kramer. He's up to seventh
in the rankings.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Dude, Kramer's a monster man.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
He can end up on the podium for them. That'd
be awesome.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
He's so stingy on his feet, he's so good on
top he and and you know he can throw the
boots in but like I also like he'll throw just
kind of the double kind of bar arm and just
get completely out to the side and just try and
work him over that way. And like, dudes just look
completely stuck down there. So that must be pretty miserable
to be be underneath him.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
But no, I'm pumped.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
I mean, he's looked good. You know, they'll they'll put
it together as a team. I think we're gonna get
some consistency from Caves and from sixty five. I could
talk about central Michigan for another hour and a half, really.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
But.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
I'm looking ahead though.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
I will quickly shout out and I know we're going
to talk about a bigger duel than Michigan, Ohio State.
But that's coming up on Saturday, and that's gonna be
a fun one too.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, I want to before we even move on to that.
I mean, in you know, with the absence of Robbie
the in the acc NC State in pitt had a
closet one twenty two thirteen, NC State comes out on
top of that one, I feel like NC State with
them having the highest of highs, I guess at one

(43:28):
twenty five with Robinson doing what he's doing and Kyrine
he's still kind of figuring out, you know, how he
fits back into one thirty three after being up at
forty one, and we saw him take a loss against
Oklahoma State and things like that. So but I think,
I mean NC State is a very solid lineup, and
I think we're seeing a lot more And you know,
Robbie spoke about this before, it seemed a lot more

(43:50):
parody in the ACC, you know, with Stanford coming in
and doing you know, having the dominant not dominant, but like,
you know, very good lineup that they have that is
able to compete with the NC States and the Virginia Techs,
and you know, Virginia Tech not having the best season
from some of their guys. You know, Wolck not looking

(44:11):
the way he did at the beginning of the season,
you know, got a little bit banged up and then
hasn't really returned from that as strong as he was.
And obviously TJ just not looking like the freshman that
he was last year, like he kind of came out
guns blazing, nothing to lose, and obviously he's coming off
of injuries, as we know from the off season, and

(44:32):
you know, maybe maybe he's just still getting a little
maybe a little bit timid. Maybe it's gonna take like
another year little off season of not going going hard
and see him come back stronger next year. Not to
say that we're counting him out at NCAAAS, but you know,
it's gonna be some definite soul searching to kind of
get his mind right before you know, the a SEC

(44:53):
Championships and then obviously before Philadelphia. So we'll certainly see
what what kind of guy returns, But so far this
year it hasn't look good for t J. Stewart. I
did want to want to talk about that Lilidah match,
and you know, you know, you see people talk about
how what was it him versus Caleb Smith? How you

(45:16):
know there weren't a lot of attacks, and there weren't this,
and there weren't that, and you know how in control
he looked against Rutgers. He didn't look like he was
in control. He didn't control you know, Lildall didn't control
the pace of that match. It looked more like you know,
Dean Peterson controlled the you know, the the pace of it,

(45:38):
and he was able to control the tie, get that
final takedown and get the win. But like, as a freshman,
true freshman, I think it's safe to say that, like
and maybe maybe not right now, but you know, maybe
I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but Penn State
they may have gotten over the hump at one twenty five.
We thought that they had really done it last year

(45:59):
when when Davis like was on a tear and he's
you know, in the Big ten finals, Big ten champ
and then he goes into the NCAA's and he doesn't
even place. But like, they haven't had anybody on the
podium since Nico. You know, is this the year that
Penn State gets it done at one twenty five? And
I think, you know, one twenty five plays into a

(46:23):
very big reason why I think they break their record
from last year because they have you know, I think
Lildall is more solid at twenty five than Davis was
last year, where they were very uncertain of who was
even going to be their twenty five for a little
while and then Davis was like, no, I'm the guy
I'm gonna do it and they ultimately break their record,
but I think the solidifying with one twenty five with

(46:45):
Lilidahl is what puts them kind of over the top
this year more than anything. I honestly think that Davis
is still the guy where they're like he could or
he couldn't, right, like, who's gonna show up? You know?
We we've seen him in one zero matches with Nasir Bailey,
and we've also seen him go out and score a
whole bunch of points, so like and then he you know,

(47:07):
loses to vand who's also kind of back and forth.
I think for me, Lilladoll is the guy that kind
of puts them even more so in position to break
their record because the rest of the lineup, returning guys
who have done it and have been on the podium already,
like they're the rest of them outside of Davis, all

(47:27):
of them are all Americans except for Barr obviously because
he's brand new to the lineup, but like those, you know,
outside of that, Like, I think lilad Doll's kind of
the guy that really solidifies it for me. What are
your guys thoughts on how Liladall kind of sets them
up to break their record this year.

Speaker 5 (47:44):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you saw him just that win
over at Cale. Smith kind of put it in that conversation.
You know, Dean Pearson was round to twelve, you know,
so not a slouch there obviously, right. But I just think,
you know, we've seen a Penn State true freshman lou
Away in a duel about this time of year and
come back and win national titles. You know, I'm thinking

(48:05):
Mark Hall back in the day, and I think he
lost a he lost in Carver Hawkey when his Red
Shirts told right and didn't win an NCAA title, or
he was a runner up that year, right, so yeah
he won it, right. Yeah, So that's I feel like
I get vibes of that, where like, hey, yeah he lost,
it may have sucked, but he's gonna come out so
much better from this. And these Penn State guys, especially

(48:27):
as young guys, they use this as a learning a
learning experience, you know. Whatever the coaching staff does after these,
whether it's film or you know, correct those little actions
kind of tweak a game plan, whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
I think he's going to start steamer one guys here
and you know, end up on that podium for sure.
I agree with you Holmes.

Speaker 5 (48:43):
He probably is a difference maker assuming Davis, you know,
gets it done or is close to getting it done
as well.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
I I my hesitation only comes from it's like, you know,
I saw Lions fans, young Lis fans burning their Lions
jerseys after we lost to the Commanders, and it was like,
you don't get to do that. You don't know where
we've been and how bad this has been. Penn State

(49:11):
won twenty five was really bad. Yeah, for a long time,
And like Raison Davis was also a Round of twelve
guy last year and was ranked number one in the country,
so like he doesn't. I think they've they've gotten over
the hump already. In my eyes, I think they like
were over the hump last year.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
It's it's tough to.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Point to just you know, the NCAA tournament and be
like he lost to Jory Volk and now he's you know, man,
we almost were good at one twenty five Yeah yeah,
ah man, we thought he was good. But it turns
out he's bad, right, Like that's not the same. So
but like, yeah, lil itd All looks great. Well, he

(49:51):
looks really really good. Lots of guys lose to Dean
Peterson and and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I still think lild Doll is a contender to win it, honestly.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I want to see him and you're sticking with You're
sticking with Ramos. We know we're going to revisit our
picks next week. But I think that Lilidol is certainly
a contender that that should be in the mix, which
you know, like I said, I'm jumping the gun a week,
but I think that he is is still a contender.
The loss to to Dean Peterson doesn't really change my mind.

(50:27):
I think you're you're a true freshman, you should take
some losses, so like one loss isn't gonna be like,
oh no, he's no longer a contender, Like that's just
a dumb question. But you know, I think that he's
still up there now. At the beginning of the season,
I didn't think he was a contender, but now I do.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Do you think Kale's telling those true freshmen like, hey,
if you just lose all the pressures.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Off, I mean, I hope they look at it. I
hope they look at him like how the hell would
you know?

Speaker 2 (50:53):
But yeah, yeah, like I still feel the pressure.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
That's it, you know, Yeah, I just live with it.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Cale Sanders, who knows, who knows. Let's let's turn the
page to Iowa. Penn State. That's the that's the big
one this week. We had originally thought that, you know it,
and it was Nebraska was certainly the toughest team that
Penn State has faced thus far. You know, not taking

(51:24):
anything away from from Rutgers, who they just wrestled, but
you know, Penn State gave up the most losses in
the most team points against Nebraska, so you know, you
kind of have to equate that to being the toughest.
And I mean, if you look at how those matches went,
pretty pretty safe to say that that was a excuse me,
that was a tough one. But now they have Iowa,

(51:45):
who they match up with very differently, and there's some
very big matches in there. But I want to I
want to get to one four first and the trash
talk before I say my piece on it. What are
your guys thoughts one on gave Arnold kind of shooting
his shot and two on how Sarachi responded.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I think both of these guys are genuine in the
way that they do it, and because of that, like
it doesn't seem contrived to me. I think, like I've
seen Gave Arnold do enough interviews to be like that
guy actually is like, Yeah, we're gonna go in, We're
gonna go and we're gonna win, and we're coming for
you and it's gonna be awesome and you know, and
you know, independent of whatever beef those two have with

(52:33):
each other. I mean, I know they've they've been talking
back and forth. We did this whole thing last year, right,
but now we're actually probably gonna see it. I thought
Sarachi's response was hilarious. I just was like, you know,
because you expect him to go scorched Earth and put
like some Instagram post up about like with you know whatever,
and he was just like, dude, who's he?

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Who am I even wrestling?

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I thought the other guy was better, like so funny,
so bad candid, So just like, yeah, it was very
well done. And I think you know, clearly under the surface,
like it's bubbling, he's he's going to be ready to
go for whoever you put in front of him, independent
of Iowa Penn State duel, Right, but it's going to

(53:19):
be exciting man, and I think this is the kind
of way to get the excitement for what's already going
to be bad ass a little bit higher.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (53:29):
I think Carter's response was kind of took that moment,
you know, he made he made that his response.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
He kind of owned him a little bit there.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
And you know, but Gabe Arnold, just I think there's
a line between being confident and maybe overshooting your shot.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
You know.

Speaker 5 (53:47):
And it's he's a freshman. He hasn't wrestled Carter yet,
hasn't been on the podium. Carter has won four titles
going for his fifth. You know, is that a guy
who really want to trash talk before you've ever stepped
on the mat with them?

Speaker 4 (54:00):
You know, if I.

Speaker 5 (54:01):
Could see if he's wrestled on and he lost by
a takedown, okay, you know, next time I'll get him.
But I just think it's a bold, it's bold a
gay Arnold to kind of talk that crap, you know,
and try and back it up.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
When Carter talks crap and all he does.

Speaker 5 (54:17):
Is ever back it up, you know, if you gotta
understand who you're talking about here, I think a little bit,
but you know, we'll see hopefully, hopefully the match happens.
But I just think it's it's a it's a big
tall task for Gay Arnold to do this to Carter
when Carter's going to be home, really feeling himself and
really trying to make a statement when you know, after

(54:37):
all this all the smack.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Talk, a real kick in the balls would be if
they sent Ferrari out there.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
I was going to say, like I told you, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
I looked it up, and Ferrari still has two more
dates that he can wrestle, whereas last year gave Arnold
still had one uh and it could have been Penn State,
but it didn't happen. I want to I want to see.
I know some nobody put out the IOWA probables today.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
So that too, probably m dude Ross.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
Yeah, someone else posted the wrestle stat results and it's
ugly for IOWA nine matches to one.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
Yeah, the only person winning and he might even be wrestling.
Is he still hurt? He was hurt a few days ago.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Well, it's funny you bring that up too, because it's like,
I know, I watched some brief interview or snippet of
an interview or something where Tom Brands was talking about
Ayowa being out against Ohio State, and you know, he yeah,
you got on one hand, you've got Gabe Arnold who's like,
we're gonna come in there, we're gonna beat you, and
we're gonna take the crown back. And then on the

(55:47):
other hand you got Tom Brands being like, you know,
obviously a very experienced in the media game and everything,
and he's going.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
I think Ayowa is going to be back. It's not
really my.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Point position to say she's going to be I'm sharing
too much though, you know, and just like so like
someone around the whole thing, and it's about a.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Guy who everybody knows. It's like he's coming back. It's
Penn State. You know.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Ferrari is listed along with Gay Barnold on the Probables
for this duel. On the track I Love Trash talk,
I love it. I loved it. When Sarachi was going
at Aj Ferrari, I thought it was awesome. I thought
it was awesome when Aj Ferrari was talking with it
was a stemmit right, and there was emojis that were

(56:34):
on the line, right. I love it. You know, I
was a trash talker as an athlete, so you know,
shutting me up was not not easy to do. But
like I think it is great that.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
One.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
I do think it's great that gay Barnold did take
a shot. However, I also want to remind people that
there are levels to these things, and Gabe isn't there yet.
Like I mean, Carter's a four time NCAA champion. He

(57:10):
hasn't lost since twenty twenty one, I think is what
it was, or maybe twenty twenty, but it's a long
time ago when Gay Arnold was probably just getting his
driver's license the last time that Carter Sarachi lost a
wrestling match. So I do love the trash talk part
of it. I think it's awesome. I also think that

(57:37):
with everything that has gone on with the IOWA lineup
of who will we see at seventy four? Who will
we see at eighty four? Mind you, Patrick Kennedy is
the only seventy four that is listed, so he's the
only one that I think will go. Obviously, they could
change that. These are just lists of people that they're probables.
Doesn't have to not set in stone, but I do

(57:59):
think that with everything that has gone on and how
there's been back and forth at eighty four, specifically the
gay Arnold doing this solidifies his spot of being in
the lineup for Penn State, because I don't think that
the brands care, but when you talk, when you talk

(58:20):
about it, you're pretty sure they're gonna let you be
about it, right, And it's just like, I need to
put this out there to make sure that I am
the guy that my number is called when we face
Penn State. This solidifies it. It does can't replace me.
Now I'm already saying that I'm guaranteeing you know, I'm
guaranteeing heads here. Yeah, you can split hairs and say

(58:43):
he didn't say that it was him, But he's been
talking about Carter Sarachi since he was in high school
and making these statements about carteris Roger since he was
in high school. So when it comes to the trash talk,
this is just, you know, lucky for us that Carter
decided to come back for a fifth year and and
make some history, because if he didn't, we would we
wouldn't see this match until possibly freestyle, so you know,

(59:07):
and by then it's a different kind of matchup. But
he's like, yeah, well it's freestyle. Well, now we probably
get to see it in both styles. But that's what
I think about Gabe, you know, talking to Ship is
he's he's solidified that he's gonna be the guy in
the lineup.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
That's That's what I was That's what I was just
about to say, is like we're gonna get Ideally we'll
get this this weekend. Yeah, deally we'll get this at
Big Tens and ideally we'll get it again at n C.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Double A's right, So like this could be.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
One of a variety of exciting matches between these two.
I hope, you know, I hope it ends with the
handshake and respect and you know, none of the other bullshit.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
But I'm sure there'll be there will be more talking
that goes on. There will be a handshake, but I'm
sure there's gonna be more talking, and they'll you know,
and Carter will not you know, go down quietly, especially
in front of his own fans. Yeah, he's gonna do that.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
I'm good that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
I'm good with it too. I I think it happens.
I think the result is going to be a major
for Carter. I do I do I think he listen
for what he did at a match that didn't matter
in an exhibition against the former NCAA champion a couple
of years ago. It's tough for me to see Carter
coming out and knock getting bonus points. He's bonus in

(01:00:22):
every single match so far this year. Him him as
well as as Parker Kekais and bonus in every single
match this year bonus rate. I think he's going to
really want to keep that alive, especially against a guy
who has been chirping for a while. I think I
don't think it's a regular decision. I think he makes

(01:00:43):
it a point to put on a tough ride. He
makes it a point to score early, and score in
every single period and absolutely put on a show. And
you know, and if if Gabe starts running, I'm not
saying he will, but if, like you know, Carter's putting
pressure on and Gave's backing up, I guarantee you Carter

(01:01:03):
makes a spectacle of it. There's gonna be extras in
this match. Carter Sarachi versus Gave Arnold is going to
be the match for every that everyone wants to see.
And it's the match we wanted to see for you
know two years now that we finally get to see.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Yeah, didn't Gabe just beat somebody in overtime this weekend?
This weekend?

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Ragotsky, Yes, which is what made it even crazier for me,
is like and nothing to be taken away from Ryder Rogotsky,
But you can't go to overtime with a guy who's
never seen the top of the podium and then talk
shit to a guy who's only seen the top of
the podium. It no, doesn't work for me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
In Gabe's defense, he was very close to a couple
of takedowns and just didn't finish him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
And then certainly and caveat. I absolutely love Gay Arnold,
love him every time I talk to him. He's always
super super nice. You know, this isn't anything that I
have against I love him. I just think that like
it's it's a very tall task for for Gabe, honestly,
And hey, listen, if I'm wrong and there's no bonus points,

(01:02:11):
I'll be the first one to eat some crow. Wouldn't
be the first time I've ever been wrong. I make
predictions all the damn time. Who cares if I'm wrong?
You know, nobody, nobody gains points from the things we
say on this show, So like, these are just us talking, right,
it's just their prediction. But I think that Carter continues
to keep the streak alive with his bonus points.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
You know what I just thought of, speaking of talking
trash is over the summer when Carter was like, I'm
going one ninety seven, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Like no or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get
that big Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Cale mentioned it one ninety seven. Why not let's get
up there. I mean, I think even if he did
say that, maybe Cale had in mind that that bar
would be their eighty four.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I think that was ultimately kind of the idea. I
don't think anybody I said it before we got started.
It's like, I mean, Josh Barr is a weak spot
in the lineup. He's twelve and zero and ranked fourth
in the country, and obviously it's gonna be another one
of those undefeated matchups in this duel.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, now every single one of their
guys is is what top is it still top ten?
I know going into last week they were top seven. Yeah,
they're all still top seven. Little doll drops to seven
from being at six, I think, yeah, him and Braiden seven, Yeah,

(01:03:38):
him and Braden are the highest ranked guys in this
in this entire lineup, and they're both seventh.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Everyone else in scrubs man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Yeah, everyone else's top three. Yeah, so or excuse me,
top four, Vanessa's four. So very tough lineup. This is
not going to be you know, it's not going to
look like the matchups with Iowa and Penn State from
back in the day when it was barn Burner type stuff.

(01:04:09):
So yeah, with that said, who you guys taking Penn
State or Iowa? Just kidding?

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
I mean, what's the line for Iowa? Is it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
I don't know, Yeah, I don't know what the line wins.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
One and a half wins, you know, at the ten bouts,
I mean, if he's probably I mean he's favored to win,
you know, and then you gotta throw fifty seven in there,
if teamer is in there, and then yeah, ninety seven.
You know, Buchanan bar is going to be a good match.
But you got Allan Buchanan a little bit just being

(01:04:41):
ranked higher. So I think there's a possiblity for them
to win three matches.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I give them, Yeah, thirty three. In my mind, I
think it's thirty three, forty nine and fifty seven go
to Iowa.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
You think forty nine does? You don't think they win?
One ninety seven?

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
I won't know?

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Or yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Think yeah, yeah, I think you can win, So potentially
for me, it's potentially four. I think I think that
Parco can beat van Ness.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
I think so too, you can, but I don't think
he will.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
But yeah, I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
I think four is probably the max unless something crazy happens.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
But four is probably the max. Yeah, thirty three or yeah,
thirty three, forty nine, fifty seven and ninety seven are
probably the more that I will can take in this duel.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
We're gonna also get mess and Brinking Caliendo number one
versus number two both thirteen and O and Messon Brings
gonna major him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
There, listen, it's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Kill him, tect him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Last year he did he did, like I don't. I
don't know if I don't know if Messon Brin gets
bonus this time, though, I think it's I think it's
a regular decision. Parko van Ness is like one two
point match. I think if any of the four that
we any of the four weight classes where Penn State

(01:06:20):
does win, where Iowa has a potential win. I think
forty nine is like top of the list.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Well, and you gotta think van Ness is gonna be like,
I just lost. I hate that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
And he's gonna come out there and I think he's
gonna try to make a statement with you know, knocking
knock Parko.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Was that that was?

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Was that the All Star Classic match Parco and van
Ness last year when Vanes got hurt?

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Maybe, yeah, I feel like it was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Yeah, you're right, Yeah, so I think van Ness gets
it done now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
Yeah, you got to prove it to himself or Shore.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
But yeah, I think you know, ninety seven is going
to be. Man, it's whoever whoever has lungs left in
the third period, because that's I mean, from what we've
seen and this isn't like last week wasn't the first
time that we had seen Barr do you know a

(01:07:28):
crazy put up crazy numbers in the third period. I
mean he did. You know, he looked amazing against Stephen
Little where he just continued to get stronger and Little
was just like crumbling.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
Tell he beat Beard this year too, I guess yeah, yeah,
just kind of hunger.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
He was up a little bit and it just blew
it open.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Major decisions where's on guys in the third period, So
I think it's going to be super interesting in ninety seven.
You know, obviously Barr hasn't wrestled anybody that is on
Buchanan's level as of yet. But I tell you what,
the more I see of Bar, the more I think
he should jump Ferrari as well. I know that's crazy,

(01:08:05):
but like considering Ferrari's their NCAA champion, But like, the
the more I see of Bar beating guys that are
all Americans and Ferrari not even wrestling guys that are
all that are even close to on that level, It's
just like, man, I think Bar is the top three
guy over Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Hey, you didn't watch the chip Awat Challenge like I did,
all right? And I also missed two of the duels
because I was at a birthday party, but I watched
the other one and a half. Yeah, No, Josh Barr
is awesome, man, Josh bar Gets deserves everybody in the credit.
He should. I think he's gotten so far this season.

(01:08:47):
You know, to talk about gas tanks and who's looked
good though, I mean you Cannon just tecked Shoemate, right,
like Shoemate's.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Not some loser.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Was that was to ice the duel, like so you
know that you may was out there knowing like what
can't happen and for the team to still have a chance,
and still it happened. Yeah, both these guys are showing
up ready to help for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
So it's gonna be good. It's gonna be a good duel,
probably the toughest of Penn State's season out until they
hit Oklahoma State later on or no, they don't wrestle
Olahma State later, I will wrestle with Oklahoma State. I
think it's their last duel of the year. I was
last duel of the year when they wrestle Oklahoma State.

(01:09:34):
Penn State does not wrestle them this year, which sucks. Honestly.
I feel like this year, more than next year, would
be a really good duel. Oklahoma State Penn State, I
think would be really good this year. I don't. I mean,
obviously there's no crystal Ball, but you know, you lose Hambity,
you lose Hendrickson, I don't think you know those guys

(01:09:56):
are too.

Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
That's going right? Yeah, what's that cam? I mean would
be gone?

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Yeah, exactly, So I think this year would have been
a really good year for Oklahoma State and Penn State
to hit with with the lineup that Oklahoma State has
right now. But anyway, any other duel meets sticking out
to you guys next week, I mean, Nelson, what's happening.
I know you guys are you're getting even more having
an e w A and the ivy. So what's happening

(01:10:22):
to that next week? This week?

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
I should say, this week? Yeah w A. I pull
up my schedule here.

Speaker 5 (01:10:31):
Yeah, I just as I'm pulling that up, I just
can't go to the fact that we talked about one
sixty five mess and brinking calligendo one verse two, and
we're like, yeah, he might major him, he might not.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Like that's how good number one is over it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:43):
Like it's just crazy too like that, Yeah, e w A,
we got Navy, but Nell should be good. Princeton and
Drexel should be a pretty good one, you know, pretty
close down the road. And oh, I think the best
natchal weekend WA is gonna be Army at Lehigh on Saturday.

(01:11:04):
That'll be kind of you know, for the top in
their division Patriot League there, So the Patriot Division.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
And Army just coming off a loss with but now
Lehi was off this weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:11:16):
It took a beating to Cornell two weeks ago, so
I think Lehi's gonna be ready, Army's gonna be ready
that that should be a good show down there, and
Lehi is usually on.

Speaker 4 (01:11:23):
Flow, so that'll be on Flow Wrestling if you want
to watch that one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah, Kevin, anything in the Big Ten besides Penn State Iowa.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
Yeah, I mean I shouted it out a little bit earlier,
but I'll be watching the Michigan Ohio State duel. That'll
be on Big Ten Network on two pm Eastern time,
I believe, Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
And you know what should have been probably a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
More exciting duel with a little bit more of a
complete lineup. But still you know you're gonna get Lemley Mendez,
which to my knowledge, those two have not wrestled in
college yet and yet. Yeah, so they keep missing each
other at Big Tens and NCAA's and Cliff Keynes and.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
You know wherever else. So that'll be exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Hopefully that goes down uh one fifty seven. You should
see Saldatee and Sasso, Mantanona and Gallagher at one sixty
five should be a fun one. Cardinis and Shoemate at
one ninety seven you'll get another Jaden Bullock Ryder Ragotski match.

(01:12:32):
Those two split I believe last year with Ragatziki getting
the win of the duel and Blook winning. I think
it's big tens U and Heinzelman and Feldman should be good.
So you know, if Michigan can get some up to
upsets and oh and then probably get Guilcher, either Guiltera

(01:12:53):
or Catrabone at one against Dmilio, so that'll be good.
But if you can get some upsets throughout the lineup,
and they're going to be doing a maze out there
at the Chrysler Center, so that should be fun. If
you can go make it to a duel, go there
in person.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Nice should be a good one outside of obviously the
one we talked about extensively, Rutgers Minnesota and the Big
Ten is going to be a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Uh it's so far.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
We've seen that Gable Steveson is on schedule for basically
all of the Big Ten schedule. He's been everywhere. I
mean he was just a Wisconsin last week. He's you know,
doing home, he's everywhere, so good to see him in
the lineup. I think it was kind of a first
semester test. These things out. Second semester, you know, big

(01:13:44):
Tens starts, so let's really ramp some things up. So yeah,
should be another really good match in the Big Ten
between Rutgers and Minnesota. And Rutgers coming off their first
win over over a Top ten team since two thy
and nineteen. Uh so they'll probably be riding a little

(01:14:06):
high and so we'll see what happens there. But yeah,
and I was actually doubling up this week, and they
also have Maryland, so they're gonna go from State College
and you know, head to Maryland and being College Park.
So should be another good weekend to wrestling. And then
in the ACCT little rivalry, I guess rivalry weekend, Virginia

(01:14:29):
Virginia Tech and NC State and North Carolina are wrestling.
You know, We've got some West Coast wrestling going on
with Stanford and Oregon State too, so it should be
a good one. In Duke and Pitt also wrestled too.
So all of those except for one is on ACC network.

(01:14:50):
Well ACC Network, well, I guess I should say AC
network is where Virginia, Virginia Tech will be NC State.
North Carolina is on ACC Network X, which I think
is online, Oregon State and Stanford is own Flow and
then Duke Pitt on ACC Network X. Is what it

(01:15:12):
says here. So make sure everybody is tuning in for wrestling. Obviously,
I wa headed to Penn State and it's seven o'clock
Eastern time. Is when that one goes down this weekend,
So make sure everybody's tuning in, and as always, appreciate
everybody that watches and comments, tells us where we're wrong,

(01:15:34):
where we messed up. Always love that. Never going to
be right about absolutely everything. Can't remember everything, nor do
I want to to be completely honest. I don't want
to be perfect, and nor do these guys. So if
we mess up, let us know who cares. But keep
comment and keep liking, keep sharing, keep making fun of
us whatever else it is, and we'll see you guys
again next time you've got some more results. Probably the

(01:15:58):
trash Talk Bowl will be in the books and we'll
we'll dig back into that one as well as our
n c a a's picks from earlier in the preseason.
Uh see, if we're kicking or sticking with those, and
maybe we'll make Super Bowl pick Austin. You're you're being
left out of that. But maybe we'll maybe we'll maybe

(01:16:19):
maybe we'll throw the score out there. We'll throw we'll
make some some score predictions for the Super Bowl too.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Commanity did nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
But gentlemen. As always, it's fun. We'll have Robbie back
next week and we'll see you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:16:33):
Then say