Intermat Wrestling Podcast Midlands/Scuffle fall off + Rankings questions + Conference duals

In the first show of the new year the crew discusses the fall off in competition around college holiday wrestling tournaments like Midlands and Southern Scuffle and they also question the decisions at the top of the rankings at 141 and 197.
 
The wrap up the conversation with a what they are looking forward to in the first week of conference dual meet wrestling.

Timestamps
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:01:15 - Decline of Holiday Wrestling Tournaments
00:03:30 - Nostalgia for Competitive Holiday Events
00:06:00 - Examining the Shift in Wrestling Strategies
00:10:40 - Load Management and its Impact on wrestling
00:12:30 - The Importance of In-Season Matches
00:15:15 - Discussion on NCAA Rankings Changes
00:18:45 - Matchups to Watch in Upcoming Conferences 

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-ZXyRDrg

SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | iHeart | RSS | YouTube

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gentlemen, it is very good to be back with you.
Took a little hiatus over the holiday, celebrated Christmas and
New Year's, did some family time. I had a nice
little trip to Nashville and got to see some really
cool wrestling, and obviously we had a bunch of other
holiday tournaments that we were able to watch and some
pretty cool results. Got to see, you know, Penn State's backups,

(00:23):
which we'll get to, but also got to see some
number ones in there at Southern Scuffle and Midlands and
stuff like that. But as I as I said before
we jumped on, the first thing I want to tackle
is how holiday tournaments have just fell just fallen off.
Like we used to really kind of ramp up when

(00:46):
it was like Southern Scuffle has come, in Midlands is coming.
It used to really be kind of a conundrum of
like what are we going to watch, how are we
going to make sure that we don't miss something happening
at midl and how we're gonna make sure we don't
miss something that's happening at Scuffle. You know, we've had
some really big time results going on at both of

(01:09):
those tournaments in the past. I'll never forget the Blake
how to Shelt match where he goes double unders and
gets flipped up in the air in the finals. Right, Like,
there's just like some of the best stuff. I mean,
obviously Dake Taylor has gone down at some of these,
but like obviously we've had some really huge results in
huge matchups and that's been a thing of the past.

(01:29):
We haven't seen big time guys hit at Midlands or
Scuffle in a while. It's now become we're sending our backups.
It's a date for red shirts, where with red Shirts
that now can hit five different dates. So now we're
seeing more guys that are in red shirt, like we

(01:50):
saw Ty Walan last year for Princeton winning Midlands. Now
he's in the lineup this year, but we got a
glimpse of him last year. So a lot of it
is resting our number ones for a good part of
our top tier teams, I should say, and sending our
number twos or sending our number threes like we saw

(02:13):
with Like I said Penn State, I want to know
what you guys think about how these tournaments have fallen off.
Obviously I have my own thoughts that I'll get into,
but I want to hear from you guys. First of like,
what are your thoughts on how tournaments have fallen off?
What do you think the issue is and how do

(02:35):
we get back? I guess those glory days of one
versus two Dake Taylor meeting there right because I had
a chance to see Levi Haynes and O'Toole wrestle at Nashville,
And as I told you guys, I wasn't sure we
were going to see that match because o'tool wasn't on
the bench, he was walking around a little gimpy. So
I was pleasantly surprised that we saw it. But the

(02:58):
days of that are kind of, you know, we're on
pins and needles of whether or not things like that
are going to happen. We never used to be like that.
Now we're seeing it a lot more. And Midlands and
Scuffle used to be a time where a lot of
those top guys used to go, but we don't have
that anymore. What are your guys thoughts on how holiday
tournaments have just kind of fallen off?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I this is so hard because, like I'm literally looking
at the two thousand and nine Midlands brackets and I
remember exactly where I was watching this and it was
it was you know, Andrew Howell, Russell, John Reider in
the finals. Ryan morning Star took a third, Nick Marrable fourth,
like you had Matt McDonough and Andrew Long in the finals.

(03:40):
You had Gerrod Trice beating Dave Zabriskie, who was the
NCAA champ that year. Like you had Mark Ls who
was in that, who's also an NCAA champ. Zach Ray
was in that. Don Bradley was in that. Dude, I'm
just looking at this now. That was loaded and the
number one dude was Girod Trice. Fire up ships.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Anyway, So but like this it sucks.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Jake Varner was win mecallic in the one nine seven finals,
Like I missed this.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
This was not that long ago. At least it doesn't
seem that long ago.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Maybe maybe just because.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I'm old, but my senior year of college. So yeah
it was that long ago.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
But you know the point is, like I feel like
we could get this back, like and this is not
me this merching soldiers, but I feel like the soldier
salute you have. You have that plus the Southern scuffle,
which you know we've had Midlands in Scuffle and had
them both be competitive. I'm not saying that, but when
you add a third one in there and you take

(04:38):
teams out like you know, you had Iowa obviously, Minnesota,
South Dakota State, Missouri, North Carolina, Wyoming, Nay, I.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Used to be at Midlands too, right, like that where they.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, Stanford, Like that's you put those
back in Midlands and you've got a competitive Midlands again.
Or maybe you don't put all those teams there, but
you put you know, half of them there and half
of them back in Southern Scuffle.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
You've got to competitive winter tournaments, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
But but do Midlands and Scuffle allow the splits and
double birds?

Speaker 4 (05:16):
I don't think so. I think that's the issue.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
That's not how it's not how you salute soldiers, my.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
Friends, exactly, not in this country.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Very good point, very good point. I hadn't considered that.
But it is what it is. You know, it's tough.
It's when it's you see this in sports leagues all
the time, right, if you add too many expansion teams
and all of a sudden, leagues get weaker because there's
just not as much depth and there's not as much
talent in the league, and now all of a sudden,
it's like it's just not as it's not as good,

(05:44):
you know, and this happens, so you know, it stinks,
it kind of has happened. I would like to go
back to the days of Midlands and Southern Scuffle being
kind of the top top things we use and measure
our people with. And that's not to say that there's
not still room for Red Shirts and sending those guys
out there and depending on what people are going through

(06:06):
health wise in this part of the season, like not saying,
send your guys to get beat up to these these
crazy tournaments. But I just miss it, just miss it
Midlands in particular. But yeah, the Scuffle was fun too.
You also had the Ed Ruth getting beat by Gabe.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Dean mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Seemed to be remembering a lot of Michigan friendly things.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
That's where Mark hall and made his debut and as
well as Carter Seraci both made their debuts, you know,
their big time debuts there and won those tournaments and
it was a huge deal because they were both in
Red Shirt at the time. Like that used to be
a very big deal. I mean, hell, I can remember
when David Taylor decided to wrestle in Midlands and everybody's like,

(06:48):
why the hell's he doing that, and he's like, well,
because he can. And it's really good competition. At least
at one point, it was really good competition for somebody
who's training, you know, to win a world title. Him
going out and wrestling guys though they aren't on his level,
getting live competition as opposed to staying in a room
used to pay dividends. No, not anymore.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Didn't he wrestles the Heat in the finals that year too?

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I think somebody, Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
It was something.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Crazy where it was like that's still a badass match
and he was. Again he was bumping up to eighty
six kilogram, so it was like, hey, let's go get
some good competition at one eighty four and figure it out.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah, I just think there's a lot of especially lately,
there's so much on this March is all that matters mentality,
you know, So if someone's a little dinged up here,
not feeling right one hundred percent, you know they're getting
held back from these events. And not even just that,
a lot of teams aren't even going to these events anymore.
Like we kind of discussed and you know, I don't
know what what that is. Everyone talks about, Oh, we

(07:48):
want the best competition, we want the best competition, but
you know, it's not really coming to fruition when you're
not coming to some of these events. And I was
classing through some of the deep the rankings, and there's
like five or six guys in the top five at
some of these weights that you know, through all ten
weight classes that are like five matches or six matches
in the first semester. Yeah, like to wrestle that in

(08:09):
a weekend and one day, you know, back you know,
back in my day ten years ago, right, some of
these guys like you know three and oh when they're
number two in the nation, It's like, how how do
you have three matches in this first semester? Yeah, unless
you're legitimately hurt. Yeah, I get it. But you know,
I think a lot of it is, you know, March
is all that matters. So we're not going to seek
out this tough competition because you know, one one loss

(08:32):
in December, you know, sometimes does have an impact on
seating and stuff when it comes to NCAA seating, you know,
but you still got to get that grind. You still
got to get somebody's matches, and you know how much
of that is. Are teams not really peaking for this
training anymore? You know, training is different because the season
is so damn long. Right November till March, that's five

(08:52):
months of training. You know, why would you have guys
peak in the middle just to taper down, just to
ramp up again. You know, that's how it used to be,
And maybe that's the thing in the past. Now, you know,
coaches are a lot smarter, they're a lot more in
tune with their wrestlers and how this stuff works. So
maybe that's part of it too. You know, maybe this
will be a thing of the past.

Speaker 5 (09:07):
Who knows, Well, there's a lot of a lot of
talk that I heard, you know, kind of as as
Penn Stak caves. That's what the trend becomes. And over
the past four five, six years, you've seen their schedule.
I wouldn't say weekend, but it has fewer and fewer
dates on it and doesn't have a full team going

(09:30):
to a holiday tournament anymore. You know, there's something to
be said for that they were at national duels or
at collegiate duels this year, which is great, so they
got some good competition there, but if you look at
the numbers for their guys match count wise versus a
lot of the other schools are significantly lower, and clearly
they've been doing something right. So a lot of people
are a lot of teams are seeing that and saying,

(09:51):
you know, maybe we should be doing the same thing.
Should we be we be backing down a little bit
on our match account, Should we be avoiding these tournaments?
Is there something to that? No, it's it's a weird
space to be in because you know, you can't compare
yourself to a program like Penn State when the reality
is that their backups are going and winning these tournament tournaments,

(10:12):
so the strength of their room is strong enough to
maintain that that competitive balance when a lot of rooms
you don't have that ability. So they need those tournaments.
So it's a weird, just kind of a weird conundrum
to be in.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I'd like to see a larger sample size before I
think that Penn State's doing it at all.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right, Yeah, I mean, the the march is all that matters. Mentality.
I mean, I hate to say, but it's kind of
ruined the competition in the sport, and it's not I mean,
it's not just wrestling either, right, like football. It's unfortunate

(10:52):
for football because they don't have the load management that
other sports can have, right, Like we've seen it. And
we were just talking the other day. It was me, me,
Jamil and Fretwell were talking and fret Well asked, he
was like, do they even do the Pro Bowl in
the in the NFL anymore? And I'm like, well, it's

(11:13):
it's more of a series of games. It's kind of
like it's kind of like the last day of school. Now,
We're gonna play some kickball, We're gonna play some dodgeball,
We're gonna play some black football, you know what I mean.
It's it's it's more like field day than it is anything. Right,
It's skills competitions and stuff like that. But you know,
I was like, it's the same with NBA All Star Weekend,
right where NBA All Star Weekend. You know those guys

(11:36):
in the in the Michael Jordan Kobe days, they were battling.
It used to be a serious thing where they are battling.
Now it's a it's a race to see who can
do the craziest, you know in game dunk and how
many points can we score with no defense? And how
how cool are all are our sneakers and and and
our uniforms. I'm a sneaker guy, but not really that worry.

(11:59):
I really one would like to see, you know, Lebron
and Kevin Durant go you know, as hard as possible
during an All Star game and really put on a
show where all the top guys are are gonna be
at the same can be said in wrestling, where it
is a load management kind of a thing where I'm

(12:19):
all for taking precaution if a guy is banged up,
but I feel like, now it's a little bit it's
a little over the top where a guy is a
little banged up. Who is it? Trent Hidley tweeted are
you hurt or are you injured? And I tweeted back
at him and I was like, Unfortunately a lot of
guys don't know the difference. It's you know, my my

(12:41):
foot hurts, I need to sit out a month.

Speaker 5 (12:44):
And to be fair, Trent would probably compete while dragging a.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Broke Yeah, like you there is He's He's a different
type of human and.

Speaker 5 (12:54):
In a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Needless to say, he does not know about hurt or
injured either, because he would run through a brick wall
even if his you know, if his head was busted open.
But I hate the I love the mentality everybody wants
to peak for March, but I hate the mentality of
the way to peak for March is now to not
go as hard during the season, to not be calloused

(13:19):
at the end of the season. Right, you want to
have some sort of callous when you get there, and
a lot of guys maybe don't anymore. It's, as you're saying,
it's more about how much less punishment can I take
so that at the end of the year I am

(13:40):
the freshest. And I get that mentality. I'm not saying
that's a terrible mentality. Everybody wants to be at their
best when it comes to March. It's just the the
mentality shift of how to do that instead of really
getting kallases on your hands to do it has more

(14:03):
become a finesse look than anything. And guys are still
gonna be banged up. It's gonna happen, but it's just
now it's starting to lessen the product of in season
tournaments and in season duel meets to the point where,
like I said, we weren't sure if we if we

(14:25):
were going to see O'Toole versus Haynes. Where last year
we didn't see Shapiro wrestle, was it David Carr or
at one fifty seven or one Seaxton five or whatever, Like,
we didn't see those matches where we wanted to see
them when Cornell sat all of their top guys against
Iowa State at Journeyman. So I know it sounds like like,

(14:47):
you know, I'm kind of shaking my fist at it.
I love the product that we see in March, but
there was a time where we were actually able to
gauge things a little bit better in preparation for March
because of what we had seen in January and at
the end of December, where these guys are like, I'm
going to have some time off before we start our

(15:08):
dual meat season. Let me go get these really hard,
good matches in. Because it was more of a simulation
for March. It doesn't really exist anymore, and it really sucks.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Yeah, part of me, like with the lack of holiday
tournaments going on, I kind of am more going towards
the side of hey, let's split up into two seasons,
you know, like indoor and outfore track. You know, your
first semester would be dual meat season, your crowd a
dual meat champ first semester, and then come back January, February, March,

(15:42):
even maybe in April you have one big tournament a month,
you know, Las Vegas and January Scuffle, February, Midlands, March
or whatever. Then you have conferences come April, you know,
or whatever that is. But maybe breaking it up would
be more motivating to get you know, the better matchups
come first half of the season with dual meets and
then individually have like a I don't know, just spit

(16:03):
and ball here, like a qualifying system like you like
the UWW does where depending on how you place that
certain these high high ranking events, you know, that gets
you more seeding points for the NCAA tournament or you
know what have you. But I'm kind of just spitballing here.
But you know, I'm more towards that argument now that
we have to wait five six months to see some
of these top matchups, so we could have seen you know,

(16:24):
twice about the year already.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, I love the idea of splitting it up. And
I honestly hate that our season is as long as
it is, you know, And I hesitate to even admit this,
but I told you guys, I kind of checked out
over the holiday. I was like, I need a bit
of a break, you know. And not to say that
like I'm grinding like I used to, like crazy, but

(16:46):
you feel like you can catch up on things because
there's less matches that you're like, oh, I really want
to see that the matches that I really wanted to see,
they probably won't happen, or you know, of very I'm
not very optimistic when it comes to any of these
matches happening. I mean, the I knew we weren't going

(17:08):
to see the the Iowa Hawkeys wrestle in the finals,
weren't gonna see Ferrari versus Arnold. Like anyone that thought
that you were going to see that, you haven't been
paying attention for years. Guys, like, we're not going to
see these matches. They're they're going to keep that behind
closed doors at all times. They're not going to really
invite you in to their decision making and into their
room where the match that's going to happen in the finals.

(17:30):
I think they probably flipped a coin and you know,
heads it was Gabe that was going to forfeit tails,
it was Ferrari was going to forfeit. Came up Gabe,
he forfeits well.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
And it's funny too because someone's gonna comment like, well,
we saw Lee versus Ayala, and it's like, yeah, that
went great.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Huh, Like yeah, was awesome.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I'm really happy they did that, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, I mean you saw the fallout from that, right, Like,
and I think that.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Was the They're cool now obviously, but yeah, like that
in the moment, it was like it was a talking
point for two weeks and that's the last thing they want.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, yep, and and I and I mean you you
saw how Spencer reacted at that point. It wasn't pretty,
you know. So inviting, like I said, inviting people into
your wrestling room at a national tournament, it's the last
thing any of these people want to do. Is the
absolute last thing that coach Brands wants to do. It's
a last thing Kale wants to do.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well and again, but we can point to Ferrari and
Glazier and the splits and double birds two guys in
the room getting after it. We've got enough evidence for
them to be like, no, we're not doing that again.
We're good opin, gentlemen, We're cool with that. Yeah, I
mean birds in the room.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
I was okay with that one though, because it was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I mean the only thing, yeah, yeah, the only
thing there is that Ferrari wasn't actually on the team
at that point, so they had a little bit less
control over that. But I mean, brands, they still could
have said, you know, Glacier, you're our guy, You're you're
forfeit in this match. But I guarantee you he was
not trying to do that whatsoever. But like the the

(19:05):
march is the only thing that matters is it is
kind of hurting things a little bit, and I would
love to either see the season shortened or you know,
as as Austin said, let's let's split it. Give us
a dull meat, give us a dull meat season, and
give us a dual meat championship at the end of it,
and then you know, it's it's kind of reminiscent of

(19:27):
how high school does things right. High school has a
a doual meat state tournament and an individual state tournament,
and that's just kind of how things go. Give us
a dual meats, give us a dual meat champion at
the end of the first semester, and then we'll start
the individual side of things at you know, maybe we

(19:49):
maybe we started in February so that it's only two months, right,
like we only need to see two months of it.
We see two months, we see October, and see November
and December for dual meets, and then we see February
March for individual. That way, they have a time span
of being off. If anybody is banged up, you get

(20:11):
time to rest and reload for the individual season and
we'll come back and go and go at it then.
But we have to do something. Something has to change
because the product it's starting to suffer and we're not
seeing those big, high powered matches that we used to see.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
See.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I'm gonna push back a little bit though, because I
don't want to see less wrestling. I want to some
want to duel meet, I want the conferences to matter.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
I still want all this to work.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
The whole point of this was it used to be
more wrestling, and the season schedule was pretty much the same.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
My thing is is just like maybe maybe we navigate
around this load management thought, right.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, and hey, if we're gonna get a dual meet
championship out of it one way or Anothery're like, I'm in, Like,
let's just do that.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
The coaches want it. Shout out to Nick Costco. He
got all those coaches that said, yes, we need it. Yeah,
absolutely so, I mean, it does suck that weren't we
aren't getting the matches that we want to see. I'm
glad that we did get a chance to see one
versus two already in Nashville, but that used to not

(21:22):
be such a thing where we weren't sure if it
was going to happen, right, Like the week leading up
to one versus Two during the year used to be
like this week, we get this match, right, Like we
get to see Metcalf out on the mat, right, we
get to see Burrows out on the mat, Like, I mean,
CKLV used to be a serious thing as well, you

(21:44):
know that, not to say it's still pretty serious to
the point where we did get a chance to see
Henson and love it. But like you go back and
you look at the matches that used to happen and
even at CKLV and it's crazy, we're not even seeing that, right,
So Keim and I love that you pulled up the
two thousand and nine bracket and rattled up all those
names that were in there, because that's literally what this

(22:06):
shit used to look like. And now it's just like
it's unreal.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
I'm looking at some of these that one seventy four
he had j Borschhel and Ben Bennett in the finals,
with Luke Manuel and Kolby Covington in that same bracket,
uh Tyler Graff and Steve Bell at one thirty three
in the finals, Nick fan Thorpe took fifth, like Max
Askron took third.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, the guys used to just show up, yeah, and
like correct me if I'm wrong too.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
But like placing out one of these tourists back in
the day was like, oh he's legit, shot to be
an All American. Now you know, like, oh he's in
the driver's seat, he's top twelve, top ten in the country.
Now you got guys on these podiums, it's like, who's that. Like, no,
no offense anybody. Obviously I wasn't the greatest wrestleaver, but
it's like, is that guy a starter? What team is that,
you know, it's like, yeah, it's just it's not like

(22:56):
it used to be. It was just a shame, but
you know, it's good to On the plus side, though,
it is to see some of these guys that don't
get a ton of matt time getting some mat time
with some of these you know, some of these events too,
you know, so it is good to see some second
second string, third sring guys and you know, just some
young guys that are in the line up yet, but
they will be next year, in two years from now too.
But you know, you still want to see the top

(23:17):
guys obviously.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
I remember, I remember hearing stories back in the day
when I was in high school about carry Ko lot
while he was in high school placing at the Midlands
and how bad ass that was. Now he doesn't even
go to the Midlands, works.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
For Naval Academy. I go to Social Salute.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I mean, sure, what kind of a message would that
be sending if he didn't, although I guess.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
You know, together yeah, yeah, army Army did win the scuffle,
so there is there is that. But yeah, I mean
I think.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
So that's good.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, I think it is awesome to see some of
these second and third string guys. It is it is great.
As I said, we did see Mark Hall and Carter
Seraci wrestle at at was It Scuffle when when they
were in red shirt and stuff like that. But it's
just you know, those guys were getting thrown in there

(24:12):
to see how they measured up to the top guys
in that were in lineups, right like we did see
Ed ruth And and Gabe Dean. We did see those
matches happen at Southern Scuffle. We did see all these
things happen at Midlands, and you know, maybe it's just
the longing of the things of the past, but it

(24:33):
just used to be different. And as you said, you know,
people a lot of these teams are going how Penn
State is going. They're saying, well, Penn State is taking
less matches. Maybe that's the secret. Their guys are fresher
later on. We need our guys to be fresher later on.
So you know, let's let's let's kind of copycat a

(24:55):
little bit. Guys. It only works for them. If there's
one thing I think that we have figured out is
that the formula only works for them, and that's how
it's going to work for Penn State. They have it
perfected at this point. Don't try to be Penn State

(25:15):
in that aspect. You know, you want to be a champion, certainly,
but do it your own way. Don't just say he's
got it figured out, because he's got to figure it
out for his guys. And unless you're Kale, you can't
implement that anywhere else. So figure out a different way,
right and put your guys out there.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
You gotta zig with other people's zag. You got to
fifty matches.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
You got I mean, yeah, I mean that used to
The funny thing is talking about high school matches. That
used to be the thing, right, you had high school
guys in the finals that were coming to the mat
and they had you know, they were forty five and
two or fifty three and one, like it was an
insane amount of matches. But like those recruit records now, yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, in your year fifty and one, like there used
to be one season.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
I do wonder about that though, too, because it's like,
of those fifty wins, were four of them hard, you know,
like some of those guys it's like.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, it's all the where And Terry used to be
so bad. It's like they tacked forty nine of those kids.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, Like I can remember like the Rapos being in
the finals of PA States and it was just like,
you know, Rapo number eighty nine coming to the mat
and he's he's got just as many matches as the
you know, the numbers sewn into his underwear because he's
the you know, the eighty ninth kid in his family.
So like it was just there was just the records

(26:43):
were just super inflated back then. And not saying that
we have to duplicate that, but there were just a
lot more top matches that were happening during the year.
And to see how it is, you know now in
sports in general, as I mentioned, it is now a
load management. We need to be for a championship. Let's
do the bare minimum during the season to stay fresh

(27:06):
and get ready, but make sure that we aren't peaking
at the wrong time. It's now down to a science
and guys, go wrestle. You know, the way to get
ready is to go and do it. And you know,
if you are banged up, sit all good, But if
you're not hit the mat, go go wrestle. Go wrestle

(27:28):
in a tournament, Go hit the mats and really get
those calluses, because when it comes to March, those other
guys are going to be battle tests and they're going
to be ready to do it. And if you're not,
and you're only battle tested in the sense of you
did it in the room and not up against the
guy who wants to rip your head off, not gonna
look too good. Any other thoughts on holiday tournaments, gentlemen.

Speaker 6 (27:56):
No, I just want to touch on that real quick
that you said callous, getting guys callous ready for March.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
I was talking. I did an article on Cornell this
offseason talking to coach Gray, and perfect example of this
was Meyer Schapiro last year at c KLV, had that
big match with Andonian kind of got knocked out I think.
I don't think he placed out there right, kind of
had to.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
He was out and then lost to in a row I.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Think, And talking to Coach Gray, he said, well, that
was actually really good for Meyer because he needed to
understand that was a mental block for him, how to
wrestle in a big tournament like that, you know, take
a loss and come back. You know, if he didn't
wrestle at c KLV, you know, because he was load
manager or whatever. He would have went on the run
that he had in March where he came back, storm
back and got third place and just wrestled the best.

(28:46):
You know, was he peaking a March? Yes, but there's
also some experiences you have to learn in the season
that you have to go through as an athlete to
you know, overcome some of these mental blocks, physical blocks,
whatever it is. And like you said, the callous it's
a great point that at home. So I just want
touching that that there are real life examples of that
happens every year. You know, someone goes through in a

(29:06):
rough patch and like, oh I can get over this
and boom, they're really ready to go on March. It
happens all the time. I wish we'd see more of it.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
And similarly too, Let's say you've got an issue with
your knee and maybe you need to change your stance
up or you need to figure out what you need
to do to keep people off that leg. Then you're
you're that's what you're practicing in the room, right, You're
working on these different things to make adjustments that you're
gonna need to use in those matches, you know, which
is easy for me to say in my basement as
they drink water in my Americas.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Sure, that's where you go to conferences and you wrestle
one match and medical force it out.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
That's what that's more again.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yep, yeah, I mean yeah, the same thing happened with
what who's at Camacho last year at Forensis State, he
had a rough patch during the year. I mean it
was a journeyman. He lost every single match. Yeah, he
was not looking good at all, and then you know,
you turn around end of the year and he starts
peaking and you kind of have to go through these hardships. Now,

(30:03):
a lot of these guys are shielded from it. They're
sheltered from having to go through a tough time during
the season. Like I said, if you're banged up, you're
banged up. You know, no no issue, no problem, no harm,
no foul there. But like you're you're just very shielded
and sheltered from having to have a hard time during

(30:24):
the season. And as much as we and wrestling like
to say we're the tough guys, we're tough. We go
through this. You know, basketball players are flopping and you
know we're tough. You know, we tape it up. Plug,
plug the nose up, clean up the blood, and keep going.
You're not getting a lot of chances to rock a

(30:45):
head wrap and go blast double on a guy in
the third period. If you're doing you know, more of
you'r wrestling in the room than anything, right, if you're
not going truly live with a guy who wants to
rip your head off. And you know, I'm hopeful that
we do see a change, and you know, maybe maybe

(31:06):
it's nil money. Maybe it is you know, teams making
money as an incentive to take their guys there, to
take their take their teams and take their ones and
send them to these top tournaments so that we do
see more competition. And money is definitely talking these days,

(31:27):
so let it sing man like, but it's gonna probably
take some big donors and take some some people to
throw some money at some of these tournaments so that
we do get this competition back. But that was just
like I said, that was my thing because obviously I
paid attention to results, but not as closely as as

(31:48):
you normally would. You're like, okay, that's a match I
can go back and see and maybe it is spoiled
now that you know we have to pay attention because
now we have not as closely because we have archiving
and stuff like that. We do have a couple of
these different luxuries, but used to want to be in
the conversation when sh it was happening, and you know,
we're always going to have those things, but now it's

(32:10):
not happening as much during the season as it is
in March. And hopefully that changes. Any other thoughts, no thoughts,
All right, let's let's move to Let's move to rankings.
Let's talk. Let's talk rankings. Earle put out a new

(32:30):
set of rankings, and in our in our intermat chat,
we we discussed it about him moving Jesse Mendez to
number one over Andrew Aleirez, and this kind of speaks
to what we were kind of just talking about. I mean,
Aleres is three and oher and he, you know, took

(32:51):
an Olympic red shirt and came back and was the
number one rank guy. And you know, my my thing was,
I didn't like that Alyres came back at number one
where his title was over a year removed. Right, Alires
put in the most recent work to beat the guys
that are in the rankings. Rank now the last I

(33:16):
think ranked match that Alyres even had was in the
finals of ncaaas against who was at Real Woods, who's
who was no longer in the field, or who actually
was in the field and didn't win a title, right, So,
like just seeing him finally make that change where Aleres
is sixteen and oh and he's wrestling literally everywhere and

(33:38):
not taking any time off and excuse me, Mendez is
sixteen and oh and Elyres is three and oh You're like, okay, yeah,
it was definitely time to make that change. Before I
get to mind, are there any others? I mean, first,
what are your guys thoughts on that switch at forty one?
And are there any that you guys see, Uh, obviously

(34:00):
minus one ninety seven, but any other weights that you
guys see where you're like, man, you know, maybe this
is kind of the same thing where we should change
some things up, or at least Earl should change some
things up in the rankings because he's inflating a guy.
A guy's ranking based on stats and results that are
over a year old.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Gable Steveson.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
He's on my list.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
I mean, you know, he did jump in.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
He's only wrestled three times. I didn't mean to get
into this, to be honest with you, but I agree
with what you were saying about one forty one. Like
you know, if the guy's not going to wrestle as
many matches, it's hard to kind of just hold on
to your spot and what ultimately is just a subjective
opinion for you know, record keeping.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
We are the book of record? Is that what I said? Anyway?

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I didn't want to go back to one twenty five
real quick too, because it's funny that you mentioned the
Cliff King Las Vegas earlier and everything about you know, oh,
that was a pretty good tournament actually, and it is
because I'm looking at the rankings right now. Matt Ramos,
who wanted his number one, he did have to beat
Troy Spratley. That Spratley's only loss. Who's currently ranked two?
Van Tresca to what second in that tournament? Who's down

(35:11):
here at four. So like that one showed out like
that was a legit tournament. I'm glad everybody wrestled. Well,
in fact, did Poland just win?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Uh yeah, he just won scuffle.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
He did just win the scuffle. Yeah he's up there,
that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
So you know, we've got some good stuff in there.
I mean, I didn't see a ton else to jump into.
I'm happy to have the conversation at one ninety seven
as well. I also think Josh Barr should be ranked
number one at this point in the season. And but no,
I mean I think the rest of it it makes sense, right,
I mean, you can't. None of these other ones are

(35:48):
too egregious. I would say maybe fifty seven. With teamer
you know, being hurt and he's going to be out
for a while, I think by virtue of just being
out for a while, he'll likely drop out. But you know,
nobody else has really done a ton to take over
that top spot.

Speaker 5 (36:03):
With the Fantastic since he came back, though, well.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Sure he's looked good, but he's got the same record as.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
Right, And that's what I'm saying. But the that's that's
the things that stuck out to me as I look
through these is like we talked about earlier than match counts,
but then also how recently have they wrestled, Like the
teamer got hurt several weeks ago, we have no idea
how long he's going to be out because they're not
being open about that, which you know, some teams are

(36:30):
some teams aren't. But you know, how long do we
keep somebody ranked number one when we haven't seen him
for a month plus. And it's the same thing like
one of the top three, top four guys have four
matches or fewer, Like are they testing themselves? Are they
earning that spot or is it or is it solely
based on previous results? So I don't know, I don't

(36:52):
want the to do rankings. That sounds fucking terrible to me.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
That I don't, So I mean think about this though, right, Like,
let's look at last year. We had Wyatt Henson who
was like thirty seven and one or something going into
n C Double A's and went like one and two,
And it's like, what what tournaments are you competing in?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
It like these?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
You know, one win doesn't equal the same other types
of wins. But you know, sixteen and oh in the
competition that that Mendez has had versus three and oh
with the competition that Aliras has had, it it warrants
the move. You know, in a couple of weeks, if
we still don't see teamer and Shapiro's out there, you know,
spinning on his head and you know, break dance murdering people.

(37:35):
Then yeah, he gets to stay in he'll he'll jump them,
and you know, we'll see what case act does. We'll
see what you know some of these other dudes, do,
you know, because I don't want to get into the
habit And this is not a knock on Ethan Miller,
but I don't want to get into the habit of
being like.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Twelve and oh why isn't he, you know, above some
of these other guys. And it's like, well, because I
think that they're again.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Subjective rankings, but you.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Know, it's I like the moves, and I.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Do warrant some potential changes at ninety seven coming up too,
if we don't see some additional action.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, and I want to stick at fifty seven. Like
I agree with you know, you have to take it
case by case, right, It's not always very cut and dry.
I thought forty one was very cut and dry. Like
I was like, I don't understand Aleiras being number one.
He took an Olympic red shirt. Mendez is the returning champion.
I get it that both guys are returning champs, but

(38:35):
of the two, this one is more recent. So I
would understand of either of putting a liras either two
or three behind the guys that were literally in the
finals last year. But at fifty seven, I think that
Kaseik should be number one right now. That is my

(38:59):
thought based on the fact that he I mean, yes,
he's nine to h everything else. He's wrestled everywhere right now.
He wrestled throughout the entire first half of the season,
and he plays higher than Shapiro last year his third
So before.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
What did Shampiro lose to? What is that loss? Is it?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Is it a medical? And yeah, I know it's a
different weight, but.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Injury Harvard Harvard Harrington.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Ok, yeah, I didn't remember.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah that that's another thing where it's like, yeah, he
has a loss, but does an injury default it's a loss?
Is it? Really? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah? So, and like I said, I I know that
you know, Kaseik, it was at a different weight and
everything else, But I feel like you have to reward
the guy that is competing consistently.

Speaker 5 (39:47):
Competing at the same time. And I don't disagree with that.
But if you look at you know, who is Kasek
beat this year? His best win is what Conway in
the Missouri.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Duels teammate, which doesn't technically count.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
Ze teammates, doesn't count as a win. Like, that's not
I mean, he hasn't not to say that he doesn't
deserve the spot, but what has he done to show that?

Speaker 1 (40:06):
All right?

Speaker 5 (40:06):
And that's where that resume comes in. He's only at
nine matches in the first semester, which is a lot
more than some of the Penn State guys have. But
you know what, what are they put in themselves to
get those those high quality matches?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah? I agree with that. I guess for me, it's
it's more so rewarding, you know, kind of the man
in the arena kind of a thing. And and that's
why at ninety seven, I'm like, man, you can in
ten and o right now and Ferrari is six and
oh but like I don't think I mean as opposed

(40:41):
to last year. Yeah, yeah, big one that I mean
that was that was big in the realm of of
you know, not losing the ability to use emojis, but
that was really it, right, Like that's the thing is
Ferrari's matches this year and he doesn't really have a

(41:03):
big result for two years.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
Yeah, he's actually only five and because one of those
ones it was as the community college.

Speaker 7 (41:09):
Guy there, you go, so, yeah, but they don't all count, No,
they don't.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
And like, we're going to see coaches rankings here in
the next week or two, right, and you have to
have I don't know what the number is for this
first one, but there's a certain number of matches you
have to hit in order to be ranked.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Oh, there's a number of guys that are not going
to be in those coaches rankings.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
And it's like, oh, this guy should be ranked. He's
return but it's like, yeah, So my point is maybe
there should be a minimal number of matches you need
to hit in order to land in the internet rankings,
which are the best ones on the internet, by the way,
but whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
And let's let's call what it is as well. Coaches
shouldn't be doing rankings in the first place, right, Like
the coach's rankings have any sort of weight on anything
is the worst because the amount of text messages and
phone calls and emails that go into those where it's like, hey,
I need you to rank my guy here, and they're

(42:12):
only they're looking at intermatt and they're looking at flow
and they're like, Okay, this is where these guys are.
Let's put them in the same they're basically the same order.
Like the coaches are not paying attention to rankings in
the first place. They don't care. They really do They
really truly do not care. They want their guy to
go out there and win, whether it is the ninety

(42:34):
seventh rank guy or the number one rank guy. The
preparation is different when you know your competition, but go
out there and wrestle. But yeah, I mean, Ferrari hasn't
had a win, a big ranked win since he won
his national title in twenty twenty two, Like Glacier is

(42:56):
his biggest win.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And he's not going to have another man against the
ranked guy until February sixteenth against Little against Little Rock.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, so I know something coming up this weekend.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, And that's the thing. He sat out of CKLV
as well. Whether he was you know, not throwing anything
at him, whether he was injured or not, that I'm
not speculating about, but he wasn't there. Right. It's the
same that that went for Richie Figgs at one twenty five.
Figgs was in the lineup, got injured, was out of
the lineup. Matt Ramos continued to be on the tear

(43:33):
that he's on, he ascends. I think it's the same
thing here at ninety seven. I think that at one
ninety seven, I think both ninety seven and forty one
should have changed today with Earl's rankings and looking at
Ferrari's record and his results, there is nothing that warns

(43:56):
him to be the number one guy at all.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
You could argue that Cardinas which should be over him too.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yes, but.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
That's what it looked now.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
I'm I'm not against that at all. I if anything,
Ferrari should be top five, but I think he would
he should be like three or four, probably three, because
you know Josh Barr, it just beat Steven Little, He's
he should be number one, Yeah, highly impressive. Honestly, he's

(44:30):
very good. And you know, seeing his match with with Little,
Barr continued to get stronger throughout the match, whereas Little
was fading and it was apparent. But Ferrari shouldn't be
number one at ninety seven, should be Buchanan, Buchanan, Gardienas
should be one. Two, Ferrari should be three until you

(44:54):
know he has the results that back up his numbmber
one ranking. And I get it every and be like, oh,
he's the only national champion in the you know, entire rankings. Certainly,
I get it, but that was also two years ago.
You know, it just doesn't. It shouldn't hold that much
weight at this point. It just shouldn't when he hadn't

(45:18):
competed in such a long time.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
And his deadlift hasn't improved, so hasn't improved.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Still still it still what is it? Six sixty five?

Speaker 3 (45:27):
That's that's the last I heard.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
Yeah, it was four years ago.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
It was, Yeah, I was gonna say it was. It
was more than two years ago.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, a while ago.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
The this is this is tough because the the easy
counter argument was he could have gone somewhere else or whatever.
But it's like, I'm not gonna, you know, judge the
guy and where he picked to go to the school.
And again I like Bakersfield, and so I'm like pro that.
But you know, if there's not a lot on his

(46:00):
schedule that he can just jump into, right, And he
did try a.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Really good tournament not far from Bakersfield that it could
have gone to.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
He was, from what I understand, legitimately injured and that
was not too like.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
With the car and just drove past it.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
They felt like it was not the time to throw
him into that. But hey, I mean here's the thing.
Regardless of whether or not he gets jumped by these
guys in the rankings or not, like, none of it's
gonna matter because we all the whole sport is about
peaking in March, right, we all agreed on that earlier, right,
So yeah, he'll get a chance to wrestle Stephen Little
coming up, and you know he'll have to hold hold

(46:37):
his position with some of these other matches and ultimately
prove himself, uh, you know, the same place everybody else does.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
So see what happens in Philly.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
For sure, for sure.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
That's just my question is does Buchanan wressell Cardinas and
bar where? You know, if those three wrestle and someone
beats both of those guys, I think that should warrant
them enough to go, you know number one at that point,
if you know, against those two, you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
That that would a thousand percent be yeah enough. I
mean we're just going off of the you know, strength
of schedule piece and then for all we're here right now,
I think he'd be wearing a uh, you know, Washington
hat and he would agree with you.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
But yeah, they knew.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
They Michigan, so bar is gonna have both of them.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has to be. There has to
be some sort of strength of schedule parameter in there, right,
And with him being six and oh or effectively five
and oh with no results to really warrant his number

(47:51):
one ranking outside of an NCAA title a couple of
years ago. And yeah, you can probably use the same
conversation for Gable based on results. If we're going to
be objective when it comes to rankings, Gable should get
the same treatment as Ferrari.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Gable at least beat the snot out of Gottie Alley, right, Like.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah, I mean I think he does have he does
have uh a higher ranked win than Ferrari does. But
I just think that like with that same logic, you're
like you're rewarding him for from a ranking standpoint, Sure,
you're rewarding him based on past things that he's done,

(48:38):
but like from a common sense standpoint, it's like, yeah,
Gable should be number one, Like you can't. You can't
say that for Ferrari. You just can't, because.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Right, Gable, I'm sure he has He's Oh yeah, he's
beaten him every time.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Yeah, so that's that's another argument too.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
You know he's beating him going going back to high school.
There's you know, so there's that. But like, yeah, like
Ferrari should not, I mean, everybody should get the same
treatment because the rankings are the rankings. You're objective and
you know it's results based and everything else. Heavyweight, I
think you're just like guys, he's an Olympic gold medalist.
He's beating He's beating everybody in the world. There's nobody better.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
Than the rankings, taking points away from being an asshole.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, well, it's a good thing that people aren't ranked
based on personality because Jesus, that'd be yeah yeah, yeah,
it wouldn't end so good. But now, I mean, that's
that's my my gripe. I definitely made that known to

(49:45):
to Earl earlier in our in our group chat and
appreciate Austin from backing me up and saying yeah, Early
you suck and completely berating Earl because out of everyone,
Austin has the worst attitude. I don't know if you
guys have noticed, but.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
He asshole ranking.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
And make up for another way though, Guys.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
There you go, There you go.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
So while I'm looking through these, I would like to
know if we have any updates injury wise when some
of these guys are going to come back, like a
Richie Figs. Do we know when he's back?

Speaker 4 (50:19):
That's another topic we should discuss the time too, like
open this to injuries. You know, timetables for injuries, how
injured are people? I feel like that's like, what what.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Does it never get that for a week.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Or a month, like let people know. Yeah, I don't
understand what the hold up is here.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
We'll never get that.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
Ever, I don't know why why, Because no.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
There's not enough eyes on wrestling for it to be
one of those things. Football you have an injury.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
Put on it yet except for Nelson Brands, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I mean you can't. But football you have an injury
report where everybody knows who's in, who's out, who's you know,
everybody knows all those things because everybody is in tune
with those things, because I mean, you know, sports betting
is sports betting, but you're just it's just part of
the rules where you have to report who's in, who's out.
You know, our quarterback is going to be out this week.

(51:11):
Or our running back is is injured and hasn't practiced
all week. Those reports come out there, they're just a
lot more forthcoming in those bigger sports because they have
to be in wrestling. I mean, hell, we can't even
we can't even get an updated roster for the number
one team until two weeks before the season starts.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
So yeah, and the number two team is leaving kids
off their roster.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah. It was a glitch, guys. It was a glitch.
It affected It affected multiple things on the on the website.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
So it is. It is interesting though, because, like you'll.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
And this just reminded me because I was looking at
the rankings and and Jory Volcas was on there because
the rankings were posted before he announced medical red shirt year.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Right, which totally get it.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
But it's like, yeah, you'll be like, oh, man, so
and so looks kind of you know, off a little bit,
and then you'll be like, he's done for the year.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
Like that's the that's how quickly.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
You jumped from one. You know, ah, he's lost. You know,
Hill didn't look good on the back end of Cliff Keen.
I don't know what's going on with with Ragason. Oh
done for the year. Yeah, you know, it's like that's
how quickly some of these happened.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, and wasn't wasn't Elam in the rankings until recently too.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
Because they were respect him to come back.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yeah, this is a bummer year for injuries, I feel
like more so than than really is.

Speaker 5 (52:32):
But no, I mean, just think how many more we'd
have if people wrestling more matches.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Don't don't shoot on my argument now, I I do
wish that teams were more forthcoming with info. I think
it would. It would allow for better storylines, It would
allow for more intrigue and more buy in in the
sport if we had a if we were allowed to

(53:03):
have more thorough coverage and less thorough rumor mills. Our
rumor mills are flooded with all these things that most
of us, when we do get the official account on them,
can't report on because coaches don't want those things out there.
Everything is a secret. Everything has always become a secret.

(53:25):
I mean, and that's that's the shitty part about it,
is you don't have forthcoming coaches when it comes to info.
They don't want any of these things out there. And
I get it, but like it's it's just it's secret

(53:48):
for the sake of keeping a secret, because when when
things happen, we're going to find out anyway, right, Like
we're going to find out whether or not a guy
is in the lineup, is in the lineup or he's not.
And I mean I I appreciate the fact that we
do have these teams coming out and saying, you know,
Ragason is out, Jory Rolk is out. You know, we

(54:10):
don't really have much on Teamer. I got some you know,
different text messages about Teamer, like the when it happened
of he's going to be getting an MRI, he's you know,
it depends on what it looks like he might be
getting surgery on Monday, which was like two days after
it even happened, Like you know, getting these different text

(54:30):
messages in different intel, right, But like it's nothing that
is on the record. You know, I can say them
now because that's what I was told, But I can't
say definitively whether or not that actually happened and whether
or not that was true, right, because people don't come
out and they're not forthcoming with any of that, and
it's it's hit or missed when it does happen, right,

(54:52):
and even even when I was at the wrestling Information
Capital of the world and Flows, we were getting tons
and tons of stuff that were coming in. And I
know that they still get tons and tons of information,
and there's a lot of things that they are most
likely sitting on. So I will give them credit for that,

(55:13):
even though they do get a lot of that news.
I mean, they got shipped on for putting out Blaze's
commitment beforehand, But there is a lot of stuff that
does come into that circle of people that doesn't get
out anywhere that coaches do trust them with.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
But like.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
There, I, like I said, I wish that schools were
more forthcoming with a lot a lot more information because
it gets out into the rumor mill and then it
gets tweeted out by you know who knows who, and
you know everybody that wants the attention of the of
everything right, and I want all the attention and none

(55:58):
of the consequence is essentially what is happening within wrestling.
Where if I have the information and I can speak
on it, and I can speak on it from a
standpoint of it being confirmed, I would love to speak
on it, but a lot of things don't happen that way.
You know, and then you run the risk of pissing
off a coach and then you're losing access. And that's

(56:20):
really what it's about in our sport, is it's all
about access, which is why we aren't privy or why
the public is not privy to a lot of that
information like it is in other sports, where there are
injury reports and updates on how players are doing during
their rehab or what their timeline is or how long

(56:40):
they're going to be out. There should be more transparency.
I think there would be a lot more buy in
if there was more transparency. But you know, it's all
about keeping secrets and you know, trying to have a
leg up on your opponent and everything else where. Guys,
you if you're wrestling injured, if you're wrestling hurt, that's

(57:03):
all going to come out in the wash once you
hit the mat, you know what I mean. Like whether
or not Carter Saraci tore everything in his knee last year,
he still won an NCAA title. But that first match
you saw when he was wrestling somebody that didn't have
his best interest at heart and he got taken down,
it doesn't really make a difference. Everybody figure everybody finds

(57:23):
out at the same time, so be forthcoming, is you know.
And I'm obviously saying this as a journalist and somebody
who wants to report on these things, but it would
it would ultimately boils down to seeing less competition in
the sport. We want to see these guys compete, We
want to know how these guys are doing. We want
to be invested in the storelines and our teams. But

(57:45):
we're privy to less and less action on the mat
and less and less information, So people check out a
lot more. And then you know, you have people that
check in around the biggest times of the year, which
unfortunately for us is the beginning of the season and
the end of the season and rarely ever in between.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
I was just looking through some of these rankings.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Here shout out to West Virginia because they're wrestling a
crap ton of matches. Got Dennis Robin already at twenty
matches at sixteen and four. Dennis Rodman, Robin looks like
a sec. Yeah, Dennis Rodman couldn't get into West Virginia.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Where is he? Peyton Hall is eighteen and oh.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I also wanted to shout out Gunner Philippa Wicks just
win in the Southern Scuffle. He's eighteen and two. Matt
Ramos tournament, Wolfgang had a good tournament. Matt Ramos is
sixteen and oh taking on a bunch of dudes. Brendan
McCrone fifteen and three. I just want to shout out there.
Yeah Latona, Yep, he was one of the names I
was looking at.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Got it. We got to give a Josh Coderhant hot.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
How do I say that he's seventeen and three coder Hunt, Yeah,
seventeen and three. I'll say Sam Latona again for you, Robbie,
just to make sure that you knew that was part
of my plan already, but you got it in there first.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
I was just on that page on the rankings there.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
So yeah, let's let's celebrate the guys getting after it, man.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I I And that's the thing is I want to
I do want to pivot to what we have coming up.
It is we're about to dive headfirst into conference duel
meet season in all of our conferences. So let's let's
start alphabetically in the ACC with with Robbie, What's what's

(59:38):
happening coming up in your conference? That's noteworthy and that
we should be paying attention to.

Speaker 5 (59:46):
A different format this year because the addition to the
seventh team, so now there's a team off every week
actually bounces out weird because Stanford will double up when
they come out to North Carolina. So it's kind of
a funky schedule this year. Opening week, Virginia Tech at
unc UVA is off Duke n C State, and Stanford

(01:00:08):
is that pit. So there'll be some really good matches.
We saw Arene dropping down to thirty three. There may
be a couple other potential weight changes or people joining
a couple of schools in North Carolina, and want to
keep an eye on Nothing that can be released officially yet.
For previous conversation here we were just talking about you

(01:00:31):
just keep your eye on that this week and there
should be some some info coming out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Nice, nice, nice.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
But solid solid Christmas break or Holiday break for the ACC.
Stanford looked fantastic winning Midlands and Duke had a finalist
at Southern Scuffle. Aidan Wallace looked great. Connor Barket's placed
as well. Virginia Tech had a great Day one at
Scuffle and kind of shit the bed on day two.

(01:01:00):
I've cleared that with both Rugby and Freyer. They both
agree that that happened. So UVA had a good tournament.
Dla Sadanio coming back. Yeah, the other changes. First off,
Sadenia is a great kid. I really like him. I've
always enjoyed interacting with him. But last year he rustled
fifty seven, was having a great year and got hurt

(01:01:20):
towards the end of the season. I wasn't able to
finish the year. Now he's down at forty one. It
looks fantastic. One scuffle. I'm pretty excited for him this year.
I think he's got some potential to do some things there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Dude, he's I mean, I know you just said he
was fifty seven and went down to forty one. He's
a thick forty one. Yeah, and gritty man, gritty wins.
I was happy to watch that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Nice Big ten? Uh, Kevin, what uh what are you
looking forward to?

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I mean the biggest one coming up We've talked about
a bit is I mean, the Big ten schedule is
basically jumping off for most of these teams this weekend,
but Illinois and Ohio State this weekend is going to
be awesome. There's a lot of really really good matches
in that one where ad I write it down here,
it is, Yeah, it is this Friday in Champagne. So

(01:02:15):
you've got Bird and Bezakis, assuming that's who they send
out there for Ohio State.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Even if it's that's still yeah, it's exactly like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
You're gonna get an awesome match with Bird, you know,
regardless Webster and Dimilio Braden, schools uh and and potentially
Sammy Sasso. UH one four is a dramatic contrast of
styles between Edmund Ruth and Ryder Ragotsky. Just one of
those things either nothing's gonna happen or something's gonna happen,

(01:02:45):
and so I like to think that Ragatzki's gonna make
something happen. He's been He's just so much fun to watch.
I don't care if he wins or loses. He's just awesome.
And then Nick Feldman and Luke Leffman should be good
as well. So there's the there's just awesome battles up
and down those lineups. And then just in general, Iowa's

(01:03:06):
January is pretty loaded. They've got you start with Wisconsin,
but then basically every weekend they've got a massive duel
starting with Illinois on January seventeenth, Ohio State the following
weekend on the twenty fifth, and then right after that
they go to Penn State on the thirty first. So

(01:03:30):
that's gonna be a busy, busy month for Iowa. This
is tough, but I got to bring it up. So
Michigan State, coming off of their loss to cal State Bakersfield,
their next duel is at Penn State this weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
It's pretty much the same as cal State Bakersfield.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Get after it. Just go make it happen. Shock the world.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah, that's gonna yeah, have fun with that one. The
one of them I'm looking at is is Minnesota Nebraska.
That is going to be fun. I think all ten
weights are ranked versus ranked matchups. I mean, you know,
you've got Flynn versus Smith Wells and Vandy Hardy and Bombauer.
That's just literally the first three. I'm pretty sure you

(01:04:18):
know love it is. It's going to have a ranked match.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
He'll have Drew Roberts. Yeah at forty nine fifty seven
will obviously be good with Taylor and ask Bubba Wilson
what an I love that name? Is he going to
be back I don't know. I don't know, but it

(01:04:48):
could be. It could be Bubba Wilson wrestling Andrew Sparks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
And if you didn't know, you wouldn't tell.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Any Bubba Sparks. And if I if I did know,
I probably wouldn't be able to tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Exactly I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
That's that's how it goes, people, it's tele goes. We
can't we can't divulge any of this information. We're just
not allowed to tell you.

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
Coaches are small but scary y.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yes, I mean when you put the brands together, it
makes a giant robot brand.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
Like Power Rangers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Uh, we got it. We got Pinto and Clayton Whiting
at seventy four eighty four. Max mcinellly who I talked to,
he's having a really good year. I talked Tom about
him to start the season and he was very high
on him. He was, and he equated him to Wells.

(01:05:47):
So last year, Wells was that guy that was in
the lineup for him at thirty three. That was young,
young guy. He said he's going to do some stuff.
He came a point away from, you know, making the
podium last year. So McNelly is now that guy, and
he'll have Silas all read. So there's that's a four
versus six matchup and ninety seven Lasar. Yeah, so I mean,

(01:06:15):
I think yeah, Salazar and McDaniel. I don't know if
Gable will be there or not. I have no idea.
I think that might be probably the only one where
it's not a rank No Harley Andrews, he is ranked
twenty four, So every single match could potentially be a
ranked versus ranked matchup for Minnesota and Nebraska. And Minnesota

(01:06:41):
is looking tough obviously, Nebraska coming off that big loss
to You and I. You and I really put a
hurting on them big time. Ke Kaizan rolled up, already,
pinned him, cradle, rolled him through, impressed. Some of the
cheerleaders in the front had had had them pretty shocked.

(01:07:02):
But yeah, I mean Minnesota, I mean starting off starting
off Big Ten, dual week, conference champion or conference competition,
and I think it's gonna be a good one between
these two teams. So that's the one that I'm looking
forward to to seeing in the Big Ten this week.
After that, you would think.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
So, but a tough one to run into coming off
a loss though too. I mean, Minnesota is not afraid
of anybody, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, certainly not, certainly not So all ranked versus ranked
matchups Minnesota and Nebraska wrestling this weekend, and then the
smart guys in the IVY and the a w A.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
What do you got Austin, Well, big open here at
FNM open this year this weekend on Friday, kind of
get a lot of a lot of a SEC schools
coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
There.

Speaker 4 (01:07:56):
You just see a lot of starters coming in, a
lot of guys that miss first semester coming back second semester.
A good open for them. A lot of the ivys
and the w A teams are gonna bring their starting lineups,
so it'll be be a good one on Friday. I
want to try and make that speak in your house.

(01:08:16):
It's like five minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:08:17):
Yeah, yeah, you can make it if I can.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Make the work thing work, you know, But that's important.
N w c A duels, which we haven't really talked about,
no one's really I haven't seen much chatter about. Then
those are this weekend. Yeah, Sacred Heart and Drexel are
going out there. I think you and I is going
to be the top seed. Which other teams are out there.
But yeah, that that that's coming back this year after

(01:08:41):
a few a few year hiatus, so that'll be interesting.
Hopefully that gains some momentum and we start seeing some
legit duels out there. You know, he had w a wise,
Lehigh has a has a pretty tough road trip. They
have Cornell on Sunday, which is always a good match.
Now that Cornell's in the Ivy League, you're still going
to wrestle. Uh but Lee High before that Saturday had Binghamton.

(01:09:02):
Binghamton is I think there's a pretty stinky good team.
They put a whooping on Maryland, they did yeah this weekend,
and you know Maryland had a few guys out there,
but you know Binghamton came to Russell. Gotta give those
guys props. And if Lee High isn't ready and they
have a few guys out and that could be a
somewhat interesting match. So I'm excited to see that, and
you know it's it'll be a good weekend. You know,

(01:09:25):
f and m Open should have some should have some
a lot of good matchups there. I think they're having
twelve match this year, so it'll be be I think
they had four hundred entries last year, so it was
it was huge.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Yeah, awesome. Well, looks like conference competition will be a
good way to kick some things off, So it should.
We have a good weekend coming.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
One individual match to highlight a cc wise top ten battle.
Cale Henson bought them McNeil to start off the the
conference season for those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Yeah, I think there's gonna there. I mean, there's a
lot of parody in the conferences this year for sure,
and obviously across conferences too, but like outside of Penn State,
there's a lot more parody in in the weight classes.
And I mean I think that kind of circles right
back around to why we want to see more competition
during the year with our top guys, because there is

(01:10:21):
so much more parody and there there there are so
many guys that you know, the gap isn't very wide
with a lot of these top guys anymore to the
to that point where there is just so much parody.
But I think it's gonna be awesome to you know,
get into conference dual meet weekend and and start kicking

(01:10:42):
off that conference dual meet schedule. No matter what conference
it is, there's big time matches that are going to
be happening. You know. Obviously the Big Ten kind of
takes the brunt of that with having the most teams,
but it's gonna be awesome. Obviously, Austin hopefully finally gets
competition and some results in the e w A and

(01:11:02):
and the IVY now that these teams are hitting the
mad and you know, obviously we have seen the ACC
do some damage so far this year, but a lot
more a lot, you know, a little bit of change
this year obviously with having more teams and bringing in
more parody and obviously Stanford looking as good as they are.
So they certainly are, and and you love to see

(01:11:25):
it because it's been NC State and Virginia Tech sitting
on top for the last couple of years. Love what,
you know, what that new coaching staff is doing, and
and you know, they're they're winning tournaments and they're doing
some big things. They have some really tough guys in
their lineup, so it's gonna be awesome to see what
they bring to not just the conference tournament, but also
to you know, the dool meat schedule too. Well, gentlemen,

(01:11:51):
you guys got anything else or you want to put
a bow on this sucker, bow it up, Bow it up.
I have nothing else. So as always, it's always fun
chopping it up. It's good to be back from the holiday,
the much needed break and hit the like subscribe button
as you say, on this YouTube channel and this YouTube

(01:12:14):
thing that we do, and keep those questions coming. I'm
sure that people were thirsting at calling us stupid and
getting at some of the things that we like to
say on the show. Hopefully people chime in on some
of these topics. We're going to deviate from talking a
lot more, a lot less results and more topics and
things as we go into the new year of things

(01:12:34):
that we see, but we'll always circle right back around
to the action in the wrestling. But as always appreciate
you fellas chopping it up and see you again next
time later