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July 9, 2024 62 mins
The guys are back to discuss the decision from the Russian federation to not send any wrestlers to the 2024 Olympic Games. The American team also added another Olympian in Kamal Bey as more quotas have been reallocated. 

Join hosts Ryan Holmes, Kevin Claunch, Robbie Wendell and Austin Sommer for a look at the day's topical wrestling stories on The InterMatWrestle Podcast. 

Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht8oRjJNLRo
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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So we're back again, and nowwe are officially I don't know if you
guys realize this, we are officiallythe Intermat Podcast. The name change happened
last week, so welcome officially tothe Intermat Podcast. This is the crew
that you're going to be sitting withand listening to our bullshit. So I
know there's people that Lucky for allof you fans, you get apologies.

(00:26):
Isn't that the best? Better thanlooking at us? I would think maybe
I'll speak for myself. I meanyou you can. You can watch this
or at least just listen to thisand just have it running in the background.
You don't have to actually look atour faces. Just listen to our
stupidity and we'll have some fun.But no, I mean, in the

(00:48):
in the spirit of of the thehat that Kevin is wearing, we're gonna
talk Olympic stuff today, and Ifirst want to start with the reallocation and
I had a chance to talk tocamal Bay, who was part of the
sixteen wrestlers that were reallocated into theOlympic Games. Great interview. If you
haven't already listened to that, headover to the internet page on YouTube and

(01:12):
take a listen to all his comments, but it was pretty awesome to hear
how all of that went from Kamalwhere he got the email, got the
phone call. Had to kind ofkeep it under wraps that he was into
the Olympics for about a week beforeUWW started putting some things out, before

(01:33):
any of the Russian wrestle Instagram startedposting things about how Chamiso was getting in
as well. But what I tookfrom it was that even when they went
to last chance qualifier, they knewthat there was a good chance that they
were going to have the possibility ofbeing into the Olympics. And Chamiso should

(01:55):
have never been left out. Imean, anyone that has watched his matches
and the corruption and the fact thatyou can sanction the referees but not go
back and say this person was cheatedout of an allocation spot and essentially just
give them one. I know youkind of have to go by protocol,
but when things like that happen,We've seen crazier things happen when it comes

(02:19):
to people getting allocation points. Soyou know, he had a hell of
a ride when it came to gettingallocated and I'm glad that he is in
because he certainly did deserve it.But then, you know, like I
said, Camalbay into the Olympics.Now we have four Greco wrestlers, four
of the six, all of ourfreestyle wrestlers are in. But I mean,
I think and I hope that somethingbreaks through, right I think for

(02:46):
me, I can remember when Ifirst really truly started watching Greco, and
it was kind of this class ofguys that we're seeing right now, right
It was, you know, theEllis Colemans and the guys that have made
the Olympic team that has started toreally make things a lot more exciting.
There was more athleticism and things likethat. And obviously, you know,
more people in this country are payingattention to folk style and freestyle more than

(03:07):
anything. But Greco is hopefully comingalong. And he talked about gi Angelo
Hancock and their relationship and and youknow, I had a chance to talk
to Jandelo today when I posted someof those clips, and you know,
he is super proud of Kamal andknew that Kamal would always become an Olympian
one way or another, whether itwas on his own you know merit,

(03:30):
which I mean, he did getthere on his own merit or whether he
was getting a reallocation point. ButI think it's awesome right that we're getting
another Greco guy in there, onewho is as explosive as Kamal is and
somebody who I think we all kindof point pointed to and said he's gonna
do some damage on the senior level. He's a junior world champion but has

(03:54):
yet to break through on the worldstage. So maybe this is the time
where it happens. You know,when you guys saw that there was reallocation
and we're getting another Greco guy in. What did you think of all of
the kind of reallocation craziness before weget into kind of the other half of

(04:14):
this that that people are talking about, but what were your thoughts on the
reallocations. I was really happy tosee Kamal get in. I was at
the Olympic trials and you know,getting interact with those guys and talk to
them a little bit and get toknow them a little bit. Kaalal was
super interesting. I was very impressedby his poise for being as young as

(04:34):
he is, really like his outlookon just kind of on everything. I
was I'm really happy to see himable to get to that big stage and
hopefully, you know, make somenoise in Paris. Yeah. Yeah,
He's always been a super interesting guy, very lively kind of personality, and
I think I think that's why peoplewanted him to be the lively person on

(04:58):
the mat that he is off theright, because there's you know, there's
marketability when it comes to personality,and I think that you know, the
Greco team really wanted to kind ofhang their hat on his personality as well
as his athleticism and his ability towin. We got that also, like
I said, with Hancock, whowas who had the personality and you're seeing
more of that obviously now in theWWE stage, but he was also winning

(05:23):
medals and he was an Olympian aswell, and he was continuing to grow
and get better each time out.So I think that you know, they
wanted to see Kamal as well aswell as Hancock do great things because of
the marketability of what they were doing. And I think we also get that
with Joe row who qualified as well. But Austin Kevin, what'd you guys

(05:44):
think of the reallocation and and youknow, once you kind of once the
news kind of settled in. Whatwere your thoughts, go ahead, Austin,
Yeah, I was gonna say,like when Chamizo got shafted the way
he did, like, it's onlyfitting that. You know, karma does
work in mysterious ways. You know, he actually is going there now,

(06:06):
which is really cool. And camalBay, it's really cool to see someone
like that, especially in the Grecoside. Who I mean might get some
crap for this, but you know, Greco isn't the most exciting sport to
watch to the normal person, tothe normal wrestling fan, right, and
having someone like kamal Bay in therewho is a human highlight reel that even

(06:29):
if he doesn't come home with themetal, we're going to see some kind
of big move, you know,some kind of freak athletic thing he does
out there, right, and thatwill still get more eyes and you know
it could lead to more popularity toGreco as well. You know. So
I think it's not going to happenovernight, but I think getting four out
of six qualified and you know oneof those guys walking away with the metal
would be a pretty cool deal forUSA Wrestling. Yeah, I mean when

(06:53):
we talk about the marketability piece,you know what also helps with marketing throwing
people through the air, right,and they do a whole hell of a
lot of that, So I'm reallyexcited. Kamal Bay has always been fun
to watch. I remember watching hisJunior World gold match. I mean that
one was if anybody hasn't seen it, like a quick walk through what I

(07:15):
was like seventeen to fifteen or something. It was like back and forth.
These dudes were just throwing each otherall over the place. It was the
most exciting Greco match. I'll hopefully, hopefully it'll get beat by someone at
Greco match in the future, butto this point, it's the best one.
I'm most exciting one I should saythat I've ever seen. So yeah,
we're waiting for him to kind oftake that next leap, and sometimes

(07:35):
it just takes the chance to getthere, right, So I'm sure he's
not going to take it lightly.And I haven't watched the video yet,
but I'm gonna watch that tomorrow toget some more insight on that interview with
him. But yeah, he's he'sbeen fun to watch forever. Man.
Yeah, he touched on a coupleof things. I made sure to ask
him about the coaching changes that havehappened within USA Greco and then also w

(08:00):
CAP has done for him, youknow, just just with training and how
the w CAP and USA USA Wrestlingportion of things are starting to kind of
come together. Because obviously, aswe've seen w CAP, there's so many
w CAP versus w CAP guys andgirls that are wrestling. Specifically in Greco's

(08:20):
it's guy versus guy w CAP singleall the time, you know, so
what their training regiment is and whatthey're bringing to the Greco side of things
is incredible. So if you're gonnamirror anybody's training style, it's certainly should
be them. And you know,he talked about that of just how they
are keeping him, how they kepthim training, you know, when he

(08:43):
didn't qualify, when he lost inthe finals, they continue to just stay
the course. And but he talksabout how there's just been a lot of
ups and downs, and you know, linln was his guy. LINLND came
to him when he was in highschool and said, what do you think
about wrestling Greco And he was like, I'm all about it, right,

(09:05):
and so, you know, Linlanwas his guy. But ultimately he just
wants to see USA Greco continue togrow and he even says I'm the face
of USA Greco. He's like,I want to take on that mantle where
the other guys can just go outand wrestle and not worry about these things.
You know, if something needs tobe done, I'm happy to raise

(09:28):
my hand and do it. Andobviously, you know Joe Row is his
senior to that, and he talkedabout him and Rao and how they've also
been very connected for years as well, and it's just one of those things
where there's such a tight knit groupthat you can't wait to see how things

(09:48):
start to kind of take off.And you know, everything that Rao went
through, and then everything that Kamalhas gone through, and you know,
and then you have some some newblood on the team, and then you've
got Adam Kuhn on the team aswell again, so you know, there's
some season vets that are on thisGreco team this year that I cannot wait

(10:09):
to see how they do and howthings really start to take off. Well,
that's an you talk about team chemistry, right, and obviously in more
team centric sports that's a thing,but anytime you talk to successful teams,
even in wrestling, I mean therehas to be some sort of camaraderie there,
right, I would expect that alot of these guys have been on
world teams together, have traveled together, obviously have trained together. So yeah,

(10:33):
hopefully that manifests itself with Paris,hopefully. And on the other side
of this reallocation is the controversy ofRussia not being allowed to go first.
It was, you know, thesesixteen wrestlers are being pulled out of competition
and we're replacing them, you know, with this set of men and women.

(10:56):
And now it comes out that Russiaisn't sending anyone to the Olympic Games,
and now the stupidity starts to brew, and you know, I'm just
gonna go ahead first with it.There's not gonna be an asterisk on anyone's
metal. There's just not because insports, shit happens. There have been

(11:20):
times where each one of us,I'm sure in our careers has either been
hurt, has been sick, hasmissed the competition. But you don't take
anything away from the people that showedup, like they don't control the geopolitical
nonsense that is going on. Butthe IOC has the power and authority to

(11:43):
do what they feel is correct,and it's not like the IOC is just
coming in and doing this specifically forthe Olympics. Chad July I wasn't able
to get to two qualifiers or tworanking tournaments during the year because of things
like this, So this isn't somethingthat just popped up just now. Sad
July of is, you know,one of the faces of wrestling, and

(12:05):
he was unable to compete in theother ranking tournaments. So if you read
the tea leaves of any of this, you saw that this was going to
be coming. But what I whatI truly want to address, is the
stupidity of people saying that this diminishesthings, or that it's going to be
like nineteen eighty four, or andno, it's it's twenty twenty four,

(12:31):
and shit happens, guys, andKyle Dake Spencer, Lee, Kyle Snyder,
Helen Marulis. None of them controlwho their opponent is. All they
control is how they do themselves,not who's across the map from them.
So that's not going to put anysort of stain on anything. The IOC

(12:54):
has done some other stupid things inwithin rest. Let's I mean think about
it. The doping scandal where theywere banned. However, anyone that passed
a drug test was still able tocompete. But you're not getting any points
like that's not a banning. Allyou're saying is that the name of Russia

(13:15):
is no longer there and that's theonly thing that they banned. They didn't
ban the wrestlers. This is thefirst time that you're truly seeing a team
be banned, at least in thelast couple of Olympic Games. So address
it that way, right, Like, no one had an issue when the
anti doping came out and they saidthat they were pulling them out of competition,

(13:37):
only to essentially give them a mulliganand say, hey, pass a
drug test and you can compete,you know So, I honestly, I
think it's dumb for anyone to saythat there's an asterisk on anything and to
because none of the people with allthese Twitter fingers are going to go to

(13:58):
Kyle Dake and good job Kyle,but you didn't beat Sitakov, you didn't
beat Coddy. So your metal,while it is gold, it doesn't really
mean as much. Well, anddon't you think those guys wanted to wrestle
those guys too, like Kyle.They just did an interview. I was
just listening to it before we cameon, and he did an interview with
with Piles where Piles is asking himabout the entire bracket just changing, and

(14:22):
he's like, I don't control that. He's like, but I wanted those
matches back. I wanted to wrestleboth of those guys and get those matches,
and I can't now. But heeven talked about maybe I can go
some other route of wrestling Citakov,even if it's not at the Olympic Games,
because I want that match again.These guys want these the they want

(14:45):
the best person out there on themap, but they don't control that.
You only control themselves and hopefully theyare healthy and ready to go to work
when that whistle blows on. Imean, like, I'm, I'm,
I don't know. I always Ithink nineteen eighty four shouldn't have an asterisk
either. I think I think thepeople who show up russel and that's what
you do. It's like any othertournament. I made a joke in the

(15:07):
group chat, like I can't claimthat I should have won. You know,
I didn't qualify and I'm a badwrestler, So I couldn't have done
that anyway. But you know,outside of that, it's like, it's
insane for anybody to be like,well, you know, if Russia was
there, If Russia was there,then what you know, you know why
Russia's not there. Russia voted notto be there, right, Like,

(15:30):
I mean, there's also the geopoliticalstuff that's going on, right, but
you know, at the end ofthe day, they chose not to so
you can't choose not to show upand then be like yeah, but you
know, it's also you know,take into account the fact that it's not

(15:52):
the best Russian wrestlers aren't just inRussia. They're scattered throughout multiple countries.
I mean, what Russian's wrestling forbombraing. That's not very Russian. So
let's not act like, you know, just because they chose this one set
of group of wrestlers to be out, it's not impacting, not hugely impacting

(16:15):
the overall field. You still havethese large brackets to get through. You're
still gonna have to beat everybody infront of you. And guess what,
these are the best guys in theworld. It's the Olympic Games. It's
not like it's some slub off thestreet you're just pulling into to go on
the mount and see what happens.It's the best people in the world.
Yeah, yeah, And I don'tknow about you guys, but I haven't

(16:37):
seen anyone that has ever wrestled inthe Olympics or at a high level like
that say there should be an asterisk. I mean, maybe I miss,
but you know, the vast majorityof people that compete at this level are
probably upset they're not getting that match. Similar to what Kyle Dake was saying,
Right, these guys want to bethey want to beat the best.
They're not going to be there,so like it's next man up. It

(16:57):
doesn't concern these top guys, ornor should it, right because they had
to focus on them what they're goingto do. They can't be worrying about
all this other bs on the outside. So yeah, a lot of those
Twitter fingers are you know, justthe average fans from forums that aren't really
in the know or what's going onand don't have the best opinions a lot

(17:18):
of time, you know, butyeah, I don't want to I don't
want to rock any feathers here,but you know, it's just my Oh
no, I want feathers to becompletely ruffled, Like I hope, I
hope that that, you know,anyone listening or watching this gets pissed off
because you're stupid for even thinking thatit's going to diminish anything like you like

(17:40):
you are, I mean, andI'm gonna give credit where credit is due,
like I said. Piles did areally good interview with Kyle Dak,
but he also had a really goodpoint where he pointed out that Russia only
had one champion on their Olympic teamfrom last year, like one, there's
one guy that won a title intwenty twenty three that was on their Olympic
team this year. Earl did afantastic job breaking that down in his article,

(18:04):
just kind of listing all these thingsoff. I mean, even said
July of like you said, Imean, he he wasn't even And that's
the thing. Are we going tosay, Oh, well, he was
hurt, he showed up, hewrestled, he lost. I don't care
if he was hurt, because ifyou really want to get technical, Jordan

(18:26):
Burrows won a world title with abroken ankle, Like, so I don't
I don't really care that that satickbroken freaking right, So no, there
there is no there is no asteriskon on a medal that is won that
you have sacrificed for for four years. You've put in the work at world

(18:49):
championships, at rankings, tournaments,at trials in the wrestling room, making
weight, sacrificing being away from yourfamily, thicking to your diet, training
when you don't feel like training.The number of guys that have put in
all of it, like, andthen you're gonna say that, hey,
I know that you know this onlycomes every four years, and you put

(19:11):
in I don't know, thousands ofhours of work and you made weight and
you sacrificed and you did all thesethings, but you didn't you didn't beat
the guy from Russia. So yourmetal you beat three Russians along the way,
yeah, yeah, the other one, yeah yeah, go figure right,

(19:33):
like the and that's the that's thefunny thing about it. And you
pointed it out like Russians aren't justwrestling for Russia anymore, and Americans aren't
just wrestling for America anymore, right, Like there's there's a number of guys
that are spread out throughout the OlympicGames that train here or represent other countries,

(19:55):
you know, and it's not justEXCLUSI to the United States. So
the stupidity of people thinking that thisdiminishes anything. Tournament's not as tough,
big deal. Spencer Lee didn't wrestlein one NCAA championship. Didn't diminish the

(20:17):
person that ended up winning. Andhe even wrestled in the last one and
he lost. So it doesn't.It doesn't. Elevate, doesn't diminish anything.
You go out there, you wrestle, you put it all on the
line, and you get the jobdone, right. So I don't I
don't understand why anyone would say thatthere is an a I mean, no,
I shouldn't say that. I dounderstand why people say it because they

(20:37):
need to have some sort of quantifyinglevel of superiority to say, oh,
well this, that and whatever.No, you're wrong, sorry but you
are. And I'm sure that there'sa number of faceless Twitter accounts who are
going to let us have it maybeyou know, whenever this comes out,

(21:00):
But like, it's just guys,it's just stupid. It really is a
stupid way of thinking. My dadalways used to say something to the effect
of it's great to have stupid peoplearound because it makes the level of competition
that much easier, you know.So, I mean, honestly, for
me, I think it's just kindof karma when it comes to Russia because,

(21:25):
like I said, they were bannedin twenty twenty when they honestly weren't.
They just had to. They justhad a flag that had Olympic rings
on it, or you know,Russia didn't show up in the metal count
and I mean for the last coupleof years they've it's been what AI n

(21:45):
on everything. So it doesn't reallymake a difference. You know, you
still have to go out there andcompete. We've seen our guys lose to
people from all different countries. It'snot going to make a bit of difference
in my mind obviously. You know, if you want to get technical,

(22:06):
yes, the the the difficulty doesdrop, I'll give it to you.
The difficulty of the entire bracket doesdrop. But there is no guarantee that
Sitakov makes it to the finals.There's no guarantee that any that sagely of
makes it to the finals. There'snot one. As much as Kyle Dick

(22:30):
would love to wrestle those guys again, as much as Kyle Snyder would most
likely love to wrestle sagely Of.Again, there's not even a guarantee that
he gets to them, or thathe or or that sagely Of gets to
Snyder. There's not one. Justbecause the brackets are tougher doesn't mean doesn't
mean that the matchup happens. Evenwith Sitakov being out, they just put

(22:52):
Timiso in. Yes, like that'seasy. You know, still still a
world champ, So yeah, multipletime will be so way cooler too,
so cool. The funny thing aboutall of it, though, is that
they can't get into Paris. ButCitakoff is here in the States right now.

(23:18):
He's he's at Rutgers doing a campcurrently, and your Slav Slavakuski is
translating everything that he's saying. Isaw a clip today where he's he's giving
technique and saying everything that he's doingwith his stance, and your Slav is

(23:40):
standing there and he's translating everything thathe is saying for the entire group of
people that are in the room ofyou know, whatever Citakov is saying.
So it was like a really interestingclip. I forget who posted it,
but I'm sure it'll circulate at someat some point, but yeah, Citakov
is in New Jersey. Hopefully,hopefully they introduced pork role to him,

(24:02):
because sure, really cool to seeI had some. There's another really good
seventy four kilo guy that's not toofar from from Jersey. You know.
It was also an Olympic campion thatthat they probably cut have grabbed for the
clinic. But you know, maybeJordan was busy with his twelve kids.
I honestly think that Jordan Burrows islaying low right now. I sent him

(24:26):
a text I think this might Imight have said this after your internet went
out last week. But I senthim a text a couple of weeks ago.
He got back to me like aweek later, which is honestly a
shorter time frame than normal Jordan.Jordan takes a little bit to get back
to you, but he does getback to you if it is never,

(24:47):
if it is important, If itis important. I texted him today for
his birthday, but didn't hear back. So I'm sure I'm sure he's,
you know, having dinner with thefamily everything else. Uh, his wife
will get back to me very quickly. But he was just like, I'm
laying low right now, joining familytime, you know, But I don't

(25:08):
think he's he's done wrestling. Youknow, we did talk about this last
week, but Robbie, you weren'ton, so I want to kind of
hear your perspective on it. Doyou do you think he's done or do
you think that he is coming back? He's coming back. I think he
at least makes one more run,if not at you know, non non

(25:30):
Olympic weight Worlds, at least fornext year's next year's Worlds. I don't
think as fears of the competitor ashe is, I cannot imagine him wanting
to go out on the note thathe went out on, and that's just
I don't think he's going to dothat. I think he's going to want
to dictate it. I think he'sgoing to want to go out from his
his terms and he's still one ofthe best in the world, so why

(25:52):
not. Yeah, yeah, Imean those trials are are in September for
non Olympic weight Worlds, so Ithink we we see him and nothing is
official. I'm hearing different dates anddifferent locations that I'm not going to put
out there until USA Wrestling does.But I think that he does make an

(26:17):
appearance and they can have those inCharlottesville, that'd be pretty cool. I
don't think they're gonna be in Charlottesville. What's I called rich Bender? See
what he has to say. Giventhe internet situation and all over again,
I don't even think that's a verygood place to have it. Somebody unplugs
one thing or or you know,my mom picks up the phone and in

(26:37):
and it goes out, just likejust like back in the nineties. I'm
north of Charlottesville. I'm not actuallyin the Charlottsville proper, but as we're
they have real internet there. It'snot like satellites and dial up and codes
and stuff. But as we're youknow, talk about stupid things on forums.

(27:03):
I'll never understand the appeal of forums. They've never it's never been something
I've liked, never been. Willloves them. Will he loves them.
He'll tell you too, he lovesit. It's his things. He started
to back on the Internet for thatvery reason, because he loves them.
I it just makes me makes mybrain hurt anytime I try to read any
of them. But there was therewas a post that I saw that was
that was linked on Twitter that youknow, because Jordan got picked to do

(27:27):
the broadcast, that he's going tomake it all about him and try to
take, you know, the shineaway from the Olympians. It's like,
no, that's not it's come on, guys, come on Jordan. Jordan
is brought in to be Jordan,and they asked for his perspective and what
he would do in a lot ofthose situations to call up the whole thing

(27:51):
with with him and Sarachi, likethey asked him, DC asked him,
would you be going after his injuredleg? Yes, he called it,
he called it back afterwards where hesaid it again after the tournament, But
the whole premise of the question camefrom DC, and then everybody kind of

(28:12):
went off the rails about all thiscrazy nonsense, Like Jordan doesn't make stuff
about him, it's it's not hismo, but he is. He is
not brought in to be a colorcommentator. He's not brought in to be
a play by play guy. He'sbrought in to be Jordan Burrows wrestling expert,

(28:32):
somebody who knows every single thing essentiallyabout wrestling. If there was black
belts in wrestling, he would certainlybe one of them. And that's what
he is brought in to do.He's not brought into to be a Lee
Corso or any of these guys,right that he is just brought in to
be Jordan. And if you don'twant to hear from Jordan, mute the

(28:55):
television because as a wrestling fan,you do not need the commentary to know
what's going on. We are weare a very specific group of people where
you can watch a game or youcan watch a match on mute. Right,
It's it's not it's not like football, it's not like baseball. We

(29:17):
know for the most part what's happeningnormally, and sometimes sometimes it is you're
how grippy it is if we don'thave the it's the play by play with
John on it though. Yeah yeah, but like and that's the thing is,
like everybody wants to go bro,he makes it about himself, like

(29:37):
and and call me out of mybias because he's one of my favorite human
beings on the planet. But likeanytime that I speak to him, it's
not about him, it's about hisfamily, it's about wrestling. It's about
all these other guys and all andand how he sees competition. You know,
he talked to me at NCAA's aboutthe level of competition at NCAA's and

(30:00):
how these guys are elevating and howhe wants to wrestle these younger guys and
see how he stacks up as anow thirty six year old right, Like
he wants those things as a competitor, but like he's not. He's not
sitting there at me like, well, yeah, I had to cut down

(30:21):
the three meals and I had todo this, and I had to do
that. Doesn't happen. I askedhim about him, and that's when he
comes up in those conversations. ButJordan's super humble guy. Man, you
sit and talk to him, He'sdefinitely a humble guy. And he's a
family guy. That's really truly whatit is. So it's pretty funny that
like people get on forums and gopretty wild like that. I just I

(30:44):
just can't imagine having the perspective toyou know, whether it's Jordan Burrows or
John Smith or you know, DanGable or whatever, legends have gotten on
the microphone and given us some insightinto what they see in the training and
anything time happens to be like thisguy, Yeah, what's his deal?
Huh? Like, no, justshut up and listen. It could be

(31:08):
pretty cool, so or mute it. There's options, is the point.
Yeah, it's a lot of stupidity. No, I mean, this is
an episode where we just yell atour listeners that this is this is really
what it is like. This isevery everything that has been bothering us lately.

(31:29):
Because normally, you know, wecan talk about things that are happening
on the mat or or what's gonnabe coming up, and we'll obviously dig
into the Olympic, uh, theOlympic formats and and the brackets and stuff
like that later on, but rightnow it's just a lot of a lot
of talk and a lot of bullshit. So we're gonna We're gonna bullshit too.
And the only unfortunate thing for themis we have microphones and cameras and

(31:55):
we're gonna sit here and talk aboutit because we can. But like it,
there's just a ton of stupidity inthe game right now, and I
can't stand it. And in thespirit of being the old man shaking my
fist at clouds, like we talkedabout last week, I'm going to you
know, start screaming to get offmy lawn, essentially, because these guys

(32:17):
are a bunch of idiots talking aboutasterisks or Druyn Burro's makes it about himself
or Nope, we're gonna give outasteriks. Can we just give one to
the entire ball d area because thatwas the dumbest, fucking rulest that was
really wild, But we're not gonnaput an asterix next to that the blue

(32:39):
ball. This guy gets an advantage, but no, that it's wild.
Yeah, like the amount of stupiditywe have seen in wrestling is crazy,
but like no one's just it wasjust like, well those are the rules,
okay, and you know who guesswho won that time too? Still
Jordan Burrows. Yeah, still JordanBurrows and a ripped in a ripped a

(33:09):
six singlet on a broken ankle.Yes, one year he had his whole
head wrap because his ear blew upon the mat. Remember that. I
think that was the first title hewon. That was I think it was.
Yeah, that was a lot ofblood. That was awesome. The
Jordan Burrows head wrap is iconic.It's second to the to the SoC pool.

(33:29):
I was just gonna say, yeah, you don't how he doesn't have
a soft deal. That's beyond me. But that's the funny thing about that
is that when when people started todraw attention to the fact that he does
that, and then you you sawhim do it at like trials this year
against Gnawl, for against mess andBrink and the Penn State crowd obviously knows

(33:52):
best that they started booing him foradjusting his socks, like we know what
this tactic is. His socks arefine, yeah, but refrain his mind.
Yeah, Like he's he's a seasonvet here. Guys, Like,
he's not the only person that takeshis time getting back to the center of

(34:13):
the mat. It's just so,it just so happens that he's got a
famous way of doing it that weknow about other guys they just kind of
stall and getting back to the mat. Like, hell, if you really
think that's bad, watch any ofthese tournaments, these international tournaments when a
Russian wrestler is losing, Watch themget back to the center. The amount

(34:34):
of politicking they do and and andshrugging and pointing to they're like, it's
ridiculous. You will beg for asock pool if if you watch some of
these international tournaments and then the coachesthat get involved. I'll never forget going
to your Regan and how the coachesgot involved in wanting needing their guy to

(34:54):
just like catch his breath. Whenthe fan favored didn't win, they started
throwing stuff on the mat. LikeI've never seen anything like this before in
my life. It was it waswild. It was seriously incredible. So
all over there were i'll net likethe the there was a water bottle that

(35:19):
was thrown from like the top balconyand it like bounced and just exploded all
over the mat. It was reallybad. It was it was a hard
it was absolutely horrible, and theyjust kept like chucking water. I might
still have the video on my phonesomewhere where like we saw the first one
come and me and me and Mikemau just started filming and next thing you

(35:42):
know, they were just chucking waterbottles like crazy onto the mat. So
yeah, those stall tactics a littlebit different than Jordan Burroh was pulling up
his socks so and I'm sure thatwhoever it was in the forum was a
was a Penn State fan probably whowas who was not happy about out the
Jordan Burrow, sock Pool and Statefans. It's twenty twelve. There's a

(36:05):
lot of them out there. Yeah. Yeah, let's let's talk a little
college wrestling right now, and Iwant to I want to talk money and
how you guys see this new revshare and all these different things coming into

(36:25):
play when it comes to wrestling specifically. Obviously, you know, I'm on
I'm on a couple other podcasts whereI talk about these things, but I
specifically focus on football and basketball becausethose are the big revenue generating sports.
But for the longest time, wrestlinghas been a sport that obviously benefits from

(36:49):
those rev generating sports, where it'syou know, kind of subsidized by it.
But now we're going to start tosee some different things. And you're
already seeing some of the facilities thatare being built or stopped from being built
because they're gonna they're not sure ifthey have to reallocate funds and stuff like
that. Outside of that, whatare your thoughts on how this is going

(37:12):
to affect wrestling when it starts toreally take effect in twenty twenty five.
We always worry about the smaller,smaller programs, I mean, the larger
schools with larger programs, larger,larger athletic budgets aren't going to feel the
impact as much. But a smallerschool, you know, who has to

(37:35):
dictate even more of that small budgetto their their revenue generating sports, it's
going to have a much much biggerimpact. And you know, that's one
of the better things about wrestling isyou can have small schools with you know,
successful teams, successful wrestlers, nationalchamps, even though they're not coming
from a power conference or a powerteam. And you know, I'd hate
to see that kind of go bythe wayside because we have more money being

(38:00):
redirected in the way places it doesn'tnecessarily need to go. Yeah, I
don't I wish I had a wellthought out answer. Man, I don't
know, And I think my answeris just I don't know, because I
didn't the last two three years sinceand il deals have started and everything else,

(38:20):
it's just again we're gonna use thatcliche term the wild West. It's
just been insane. There's just moneygetting thrown around to anybody. We talked
recently about that kid in Florida whowas suing because he thought he was gonna
get money. That he didn't getlike, it's just I don't know.
I don't have a clue. Ican't. I don't, I don't.
I'm not a smart enough man toknow what potential outcomes or things can happen.

(38:44):
And I'm comfortable with that. Thehope at the end of the day,
you know, I mean this isthis might be cliche too, but
like you know, I know,like Gardner Webb is double dog Days and
I know George Mason just did abig fundraise. I mean, it's almost
more imperative for the people that havethe means to just donate directly to these

(39:05):
programs and to make sure they're reallycontinuing to support them. I think that's,
you know, as far as anactionable item, the first and only
thing we can really control at thistime. And yeah, you just hope
long term that these athletic directors areare on the up and up, and
they're being pretty open with the youknow, the non revenue generating sports on

(39:28):
how this is going to affect themand allow them to make some long term
plans. Yeah. I got justto piggyback on that kind of tying in
what you see on forums and socialmedia stuff from before when because I'm a
small go guy, come from Jackxelsmall so I covid W a ivs,

(39:49):
you know, smaller schools in comparisonto you know, the big twelve,
big tens obviously, so I havemaybe a bit of a bias towards the
small schools. And you guys aresaying this is big schools, it's going
to affect them more. Small schoolsare suffering. When I and I see
people say that, I see aresponse of Oh, these small schools,
they just need to they need totry harder to fundraise. It's like some

(40:14):
of these that's like the dumbest answer, because these people try so so hard
to fundraise and they still have noshot at keeping up with a Penn State
at Ohio State and Iowa. Youknow, it's just they're not the same
playing field. And I think ANILis going to be worse off for those
schools ultimately the long run for thesmall schools. But yeah, just kind

(40:36):
of tying back in the forum andTwitter sphere of talk, these small schools
need a fundraise hard, they needto work harder. It's like, Okay,
they can do everything they can,but they can't get make one phone
call and get forty million dollars likeOklahoma State, did you know? So
there's there's a big there's a bigdifference there between these schools more oil money.

(40:57):
That's where we're wrong. Yeah,And to kind of add on to
this point here, I was talkingto and I'm not sure if this is
all publicized yet, it's I'll tryand be general, but talking to someone
who is in athletic departments for abig school which I won't name. Starting
next season, they have to startto tier all their sports tier one,

(41:22):
Tier two, and tier three.Obviously football and basketball are gonna be Tier
one. I'm assuming this is revenuebased, money based something, and then
tiers two and three are still kindof to be determined. So I think
this is kind of getting involved withthat paying athletes a percentage of the overall

(41:45):
revenue and what we were talking aboutlast week. Yeah, so I'm not
sure exactly what that means. They'restill unsure. I don't know if that's
coming from the conference say hey,these sports are in tier one, these
sports are in year two, orif every university is going to make these
tiers based on you know, fundingresources for their sport at that school.

(42:09):
So like a way to differentiate likethe third string diver from the starting quarterback.
It could be or payments per athletetoo. That's another thing he was
telling me about. At the schoolhe's at now, they're actually starting to
do that. They're paying these athletesX amount per semester. A percentage of
that goes to them directly, andthe rest of that for the semester goes

(42:31):
into a bank account they can't touchuntil they graduate. So they have to
actually graduate, because that'd be areally cool rule. Well, I'm not
sure about that. I don't know, but again, this is all kind
of general stuff that's kind of startingto come to fruition that these athletic departments
are starting to think about. Here. It's all new. Yeah, it's
still so new. So again,the tiers system, I'm not sure what

(42:52):
that means exactly. I'm sure it'ssome kind of payscale for these schools.
And then yeah, thats cracks meup that they were like, all right,
we're gonna have Tier one up here, and that's gonna be these big
money makers and then these other two. I don't know yet, but we're
going to be something. Yeah,again, he wasn't. I think he's

(43:14):
Yeah, he's on the athletic training, I think physical therapy side, So
again he doesn't make these decision Hejust kind of hears, you know,
talk about it. But yeah,I thought that was interesting if like,
oh, the football guys get Xamount their Tier one, what does Tier
three get? You know, theyget you know, crumbs to the dollar
there, but they pay Actually Iwas nice, Yeah, very mediocre athlete

(43:36):
at a small NAI school. Iwas very happy to get a partial scholarship
and some books paid for. Icertainly wasn't getting any pizza money on the
side. So I mean, clearlythere's there's a huge argument about the value
in this and you know, whetherit's deserved or you know, how this

(43:57):
all should actually work as far aspaying the athletes. And I'm not necessarily
against paying the athletes, but there'sso many, so many moving parts in
it, and I feel like we'vejust dove into this huge pool and nobody
knows what the hell's going on,and now we're just kind of floundering in
the deep end trying to figure thingsout, and we're probably gonna ended up

(44:20):
having a lot of people at thebottom of that deep end because nobody knows
what's going on. So it's ait's a weird spot to be in right
now. I feel like it's exactlywhat the NCAA wanted to like when when
NIL happened, they were like,oh, this is you guys have been
fighting for this for a long time. Okay, here you go, no
regulations, we'll figure it out aswe go. The only real stipulation that

(44:44):
was out there was that schools couldn'tpay the athletes. They did give some
parameters, right like, it wasn'tcoming from the schools. The schools couldn't
be involved in any of the NILdeals. All those had to be separate
collectives, and the coaches couldn't beinvolved in all kinds of stuff. But
I feel like they wanted the chaosbecause it was like, Okay, if

(45:05):
we just allow this to explode,we'll figure out what we want, what's
really good, and what we don'twant, and we'll punish that and say,
okay, well that was something thatwasn't good, and now you're gonna
be punished for because we've seen whereyou know, maybe maybe some teams or

(45:25):
some schools step over the line alittle bit and we get into that next,
but where some teams have step throughthe line a little bit with nil,
and they're like, oh well waita second step too far. Here's
a sanction, right, So they'rejust kind of making the rules up as
they go, and now things aregoing to severely change because the schools can

(45:46):
pay the athletes now and it's allrevshare. So like when when I think,
you know what Austin's saying about differenttiers, I'm thinking, you know,
say, the the IWA was thePenn States, the Oklahoma States.
They're signing these big network deals,and something that's happening here in Texas is

(46:07):
the we have the Longhorn Network,which is where basically all the sports are
being shown. And it kind oflike really upset the apple cart because they
were supposed to be part of whatis it, the Big twelve network and
there's just a whole bunch of craziness. But the Longhore Network's going to be
coming back, and it was,you know, one of those deals that

(46:28):
kind of upset the big networks thatwanted ut to be playing on, you
know, on their channels. Butwhen I look at it, and like
I said with Austin saying, isyou know that tears are possibly a thing
it's like, okay, well,football and basketball, we know we're going
to be up here, and whenit comes to the deal that we're signing,
those are the teams that the dealsare truly centralized around. But then

(46:52):
we also get you know, wrestlingand volleyball and swimming and all these other
ones. So if the brun ofthe money that if the brunt of the
money that we're being paid is forthe rights of our football team, our
basketball team, and maybe our softballteam if you're Oklahoma, these other sports

(47:14):
that are in these other tiers willhave this amount of money allocated to it,
and we are able to reallocate throughoutthe year if need be. That's
what it sounds like to me,is that they just want to be able
to say, all right, weneed this really big pool of money for
our tier ones, and then ourTier twos and our tier threes. So
it's kind of a trickle down effectthat they're kind of looking at. But

(47:37):
I mean, I like the tiersystem, so it forces them to figure
out how much money they need andthen ultimately say wrestling is a Tier three
sport for them. Then the iwasthe Penn States, the Oklahoma States can
say Okay, well, we havethis amount of donor money, so even

(48:00):
though it's a Tier three sport,we can utilize the donor money to pay
as many coaches as we want becauseone of the other things that came into
effect this is unlimited coaches now,and it just starts in football, where
you can label anybody an analyst andthey can now coach. Whereas before you
were an analyst and all you couldreally do was analyze. You weren't able

(48:23):
to coach, could not coach essentiallyon the field, but if you were
an analyst, you were able totalk to the coaches and everything else.
You couldn't coach directly with the athletes. But now that's going to change where
literally anybody that is on staff cancoach any player that they want, no
matter what their title is, aslong as they're on staff. So I

(48:45):
can't wait to see how these thingstrickle down other sports. But if the
tier system does take over, it'sgoing to be interesting and we're going to
truly see how the money starts toget allocated when it comes to this system
that they're looking at implementing. Well, and again just one one last point
on that. You know there mightbe some schools in wrestling like Iowa,

(49:05):
Penn State, Oklahoma State, wheretheir programs are a Tier two or Tier
one you know thing if it ifit has something to do with revenue being
brought in or tickets sold or whateverit is. I mean, those those
programs typically too pretty well already.It's not probably at the same scale obviously,
but if you're selling out arenas ifwith what you have, then I

(49:28):
think that's that's noteworthy as well.Yeah, so something that that I kind
of glossed over wanted to get to. And it's a question that we actually
had on last week's episode. Therewere there was two questions posed by one
guy. I don't know if yousaw it on YouTube, but he's talking
about the Coleman Scott rumors and hisall, you know, allegations of you

(49:51):
know, stealing money or whatever else, which I have no proof of.
I don't and yes, I haveknown Coleman for a very long time,
so call me out if you thinkthat I'm biased. But I have to
literally report on things that I haveproof of, so it can't be a
he said, she said type ofa thing like when the whole Chimiso being

(50:16):
able to wrestle with the Olympics cameout. It was an Instagram post and
I was getting ready to write anarticle and posted the Internet and I said,
well, wait, I can't findthis news anywhere else. So until
I have, you know, solidproof of this, I cannot say one
way or the other that he's inor that he's out. Obviously glad that

(50:36):
we waited, you know, reachedout to Olanowski with UWW and talked to
Jason Bryan and some other people,make some connections and ultimately we got the
news. So with all that stuff, I honestly do not know whether stolen.
I don't know if money was takenand given back. I don't know.

(51:00):
I haven't seen anything. All Iknow is it's a bunch of he
said, she said. And whileI trust the people that I am speaking
to, I still can't report onwhat my friends are saying. It's just
really bad journalism to say, well, this person said this, and this
person said this. It just doesn'tmake any sense. So that was one

(51:23):
of the questions. And then theother one was there's supposedly a team that
has been turned in by three otherteams or recruiting athletes that are not in
the transfer portal. I do notknow what the team is. I believe
that they I don't know who itis, so I'm not even gonna speculate.

(51:44):
I'm not even gonna go there.But if this is true, if
this is happening, more will obviouslycome out about it. But if this
is true, do you guys thinkthat anything happens if it is true that
any team was poaching an athlete?Yeah, you know what, I wish

(52:13):
I had more faith that like therewould be some you know, follow through
in sanctions and because clearly, likenil, I'm sure is difficult enough to
have to re recruit your own athletes, let alone outside of any particular window
or or you know, transfer portaldesignation. Right, Like, if they're

(52:34):
just getting calls from people like,that's kind of messed up, and there
absolutely should be some sort of aviolation or sanction. I mean, it
might be like just what you saidthough, right, it might be he
said, she said, they're youknow, coaches are saying these people are
doing it, and then the coachesare like, nope, we're not doing
that must have been somebody else.So from from what I have been told

(52:55):
and heard and according to the question, that was on the our video from
last week, three teams turned inone program. So, like I said,
whether or not that's true, Ihaven't seen any reporting on it or
anything that backs that up. Ifyou're listening to this and you have proof

(53:19):
of it, reach out to us. We're all on Twitter, send us
a message, get us, getus the evidence. But I haven't seen
it, And like you guys,I don't really think that much is going
to happen because in my nearly tenyears of covering wrestling, heard of a
lot of different rumors and allegations andnot one sec sanction do I remember ever

(53:46):
happening in wrestling? Never really heardabout it. You heard some head coaches
yell each other about it, hurtyep, But I heard a lot of
that. I haven't seen the neverThere will definitely be some tense conversations in
the tunnels, but I mean i'dbe yelling too. That's my livelihood.

(54:08):
I mean, it's completely understood andit's not. I don't know the thing
with with me, Like I'm notgoing to name names. I'm not going
to say which programs I've heard thingsfrom and which wrestlers and it's it's in
reference to. But I can sayfor sure that I know multiple programs have

(54:29):
had wrestlers contacted by a couple ofthe same teams. Yes, so repeat
offenders. Yeah, that's the wordI was looking for. Yeah, you
go. I mean, I mean, I'll be I'll be upfront about this.
I mean, there were there weretalks, and I think Kevin and
I may have talked about this before. There were talks when we were at

(54:52):
NCAA's about oh, you know,where do you think this kid's going to
be at next year? Right?Where do you think that he stays?
You think that he goes? Youknow, you hear it with like the
surprise all Americans all the time.I mean, and it was I mean,
let's let's call it what it is. Neil Arisman called it out during

(55:15):
the presser. He was blatant aboutit, saying, I've already heard of
schools trying to get to some ofmy wrestlers and those were those were the
the names, and that that wasthe team that a lot of these people
on the floor were talking about andcirculating. And you know, like I

(55:37):
said, not not naming any names, but you know, you you hear,
you hear a lot about that.I mean, in terms of people
that that were saying these things,are asking these questions, you can I
mean, you obviously know who thesewrestlers are at Little Rock that are going

(55:58):
to be getting poached, right,but like they were apparently getting calls before
the NCAA tournament even happened, right, And I'm glad that with all of
the transfer portal craziness that Nasier Baileyand Steven Little are still going to be

(56:19):
in the lineup in Little Rock becauseNeil Neil Erisman is a great coach and
he deserves to continue to build onwhat he is building already in the short
amount of time. But to thinkthat coaching doesn't happen, it's just kind
of crazy. To think that,you know, these phone calls aren't being
made from this donor three times removedis insane, right, Like, So,

(56:46):
yes, it certainly does happen.And if if a school was turned
in by three other schools and there'struth to it and investigated and we find
out that it did happen, thensome sanctions need to come down. It

(57:07):
shouldn't be. That's the funny thingis wrestling is always treated like like completely
different than other sports. Because ifit happened in football, you would know
about it immediately. It wouldn't bea whisper down to alley type of a
thing. You wouldn't see the normalpeople that are the heads of the rumor
mill stern shit up. And that'sjust what happens in wrestling, whereas in

(57:30):
football, it hits ESPN quickly,it's on the ticker, it's on first
take, it's it's all over right. So I'm hopeful that it's not treated
any differently than in any other sport, and that if these things are going

(57:51):
on, that they you know thatthere is a crackdown of these sort of
things. The only thing that youcertainly cannot really stop from happening as wrestlers
talking to other wrestlers. That's theonly thing that you can't stop from happening.
Because all these guys have mostly beengrowing up together and wrestling against each
other and competing against each other fora very long time. So they've all

(58:13):
been talking, they've all trained together. What the donors are starting to make
phone calls, if coaches are volunteerassistants are starting to make phone calls,
or send text messages or DMS,or responding to an Instagram story or you
know, being vague about certain things, then yeah, investigate it, check

(58:34):
it out, see what's really happeningin these situations, and crack down on
it, because, like I said, I want to see more programs like
Little Rock, not less getting allAmericans on the podium. Sanctions only happen
in the Tier one programs. Know, they don't trickle down to Tier two
and three. Yeah, that's howthat works, right, yep? No,

(59:02):
I mean if there I didn't seeany other questions underneath uh last week's
video, So no, like thereare questions. If you're watching this and
you have a question for us,throw it in there. Yeah, I
like this. I try to payattention to those things or tweet us,
d m us whatever you know.There there's a good amount of people that

(59:25):
do watch these. Surprisingly, wegotta we gotta not step on Jagger's corner
though. I do not want toget on that guy's bad No, nope,
nope, I do not want todo that. What what what we
might be able to do is seewhat he's responding to and maybe maybe we
have our own takes on on whatJagger is saying. We'll go Jagger on
Jagger, cut your head off inthe first five minutes. I know he's

(59:51):
he's a dangerous man. No,he stayed in New Jersey though, So
if you're not in New Jersey probablyall right, not anymore. No.
Now, we went up for FinalX two years ago when that beat the
Streets event. Yeah, I wentup with Earl and Jagger was supposed to
meet us. And do anyone evenacross the river they just come on man.

(01:00:15):
Yeah, But no, like Isaid, keep the questions coming.
If there is something out there inthe rumor mill, I mean, some
things you see will have to bevague about because it's called what it is.
It is it. We are stillthe wrestling community. It is.
It is treated differently. You know. You allow news to be broken by

(01:00:37):
the teams. You know, asmuch as people try to be Adam Schefter
in this world, you're not soallow. You know, things are allowed
to come out. News is allowedto be broken in different ways in wrestling.
But if we can speak to it, we certainly will speak to it.
And I'm not going to shy awayfrom that. You know, we

(01:00:58):
all talk to a bunch of peoplein wrestling, and we all talked to
a bunch of people in general thatare are involved that could have some sort
of insight that we could relay.So keep the questions coming really like,
you know, being able to addresscertain things that we haven't already addressed.
If we have addressed it and youdon't like our takes, oh anyway,

(01:01:20):
I don't really give a shit.I want to hear about it. Right.
If you put it on the form, I'll never see it ever ever.
I've I've never even I think Ihad a log in on a forum
back in the day when I wasin high school, one of the district's
eleven forums, and I I sawa couple of things on there about me,

(01:01:44):
and I was like, this ispoison for the brain. Get me
out of this world. I neverwant to read this ever again. So
that was probably the last time that. Because you know, person like Willie,
he wants to go in and continueto ship talk. Person like me,
I want to fight everybody. Sowe're very two, very different individuals.

(01:02:06):
So when it comes to the forums, I just stay out of them.
But if there is something in theforums that you see, bring it
to us, I'm not going toseek it out whatsoever. But gentlemen,
you guys got anything else or canwe close out for the night. Let's
close it out, lose it outwell. As I said, this is
officially the Internet Wrestle podcast, Soappreciate you guys listening, watching, making

(01:02:31):
fun of us. All can showon us whatever really is. Keep it
coming and we'll keep firing back.See you
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Crime Junkie

Crime Junkie

Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.

Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

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