Dr. Ted Williams Joins Jesse Jackson Jr.discuss Community and the Civic Future

Fat Meat Friday on the Jesse Jackson Jr show featured actor , preacher, and professor, TED WILLIAMS PHD, in a search for ourselves in the mirror as we pursue community amongst generations fighting for our future. Tedd stayed for a while when Gina A. Towns joined Jesse on “Reflectivity.” In a stroll through the week of contributors and discussions, there were moments to remember and dig into much deeper, culminating in the reflection that hope builds faith and love, and it is love that always trumps hate. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Jesse Jackson Junior. Welcome forward to the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show. Communist. Since says is just the word government
is turned over, It'll be the only word that's heard.
That's the theme song the opening to the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. You're listening to

(00:20):
Jesse Jackson Junior and in this very special hour. Doctor
Ted Williams an educator, actor, and author who teaches political
science at the City Colleges of Chicago. A graduate of
the University of Chicago, Rutgers University, and Northern Seminary, his
acting credits include NBC's Chicago pd Showtimes, The Shy, various films, plays,

(00:44):
and commercials for companies including Empire, Carpet, Cheerios, and Subway.
Williams is the former host of WYCCPBS Televisions, The Professors,
author of the book of The Way Out, Christianity, Politics
and the Future of the African American Community, and creator
of the musical theater production sixteen ninety The Journey of

(01:04):
a People. He was a previous candidate for the City
of Chicago City Council and currently serves on the Illinois
Reparations Commission. He and his wife, Roslyn, have three children.
Doctor Williams will be here shortly on the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show, and one of the things I want to
talk with them about is just how messy this Epstein

(01:28):
thing is becoming. Why Because the president whose name has
been mentioned in the files, now has the second most
powerful member of the Department of Justice meeting with a
convicted criminal on a second day privately with counsel. And

(01:55):
that is unprecedented. Can you imagine that the DOJ, the
hand picked Attorney General, and the hand picked second in
command of the Department of Justice are actually meeting with
an individual criminal defendant. The two and a half million

(02:17):
people who are in federal prisons across this country where
the President of the United States has been made in
has been named in documents that could show his involvement
with a pedophile, is now meeting with the criminal defendant.

(02:39):
Unheard of that a criminal defendant has such leverage or
potential leverage on what is released by the Department of
Justice that the Department of Justice wants to meet with
her privately. This is the president who believes in deals.

(02:59):
Make a deal. Let's make a deal well, the deals
that seem to be made are only when his behind
is on the table, wide open before the public. Deeply
troubling in terms of our system of justice. I can't

(03:20):
begin to tell you how unprecedented it is that the
second in command and the Attorney General of the United
States have spent the better part of two weeks telling
us that there's nothing to see here, that this is
just a fluff burger, that there are no clients on

(03:42):
Jeffrey Epstein's list, and yet Ms Maxwell is doing time
as a co conspirator with Jeffrey Epstein, who has now deceased,
for child sex trafficking. It has MAGA in complete uproar
and the Congress of the United States in a complete uproar.

(04:05):
They don't want to go on record subpoenaing the files
from the Department of Justice demanding the full release of
all names and associates of Jeffrey Epstein, whose names have
been mentioned in thousands of documents, because Magaworld wants to

(04:26):
get to the bottom of pedophilia now. They don't have
a problem with getting to the bottom of it when
it has democratic names involved, But there seem to be
other names that are personal to the President of the
United States, including but not limited to his own. We've

(04:48):
seen the pictures, he says. Now he does not know
Jeffrey Epstein. He says, he's never spent time with Jeffrey Epstein.
But we are being told not to believe what we
see with our own eyes. The consequences of this are
are so extraordinary that Democrats and Republicans are finding space
for bipartisanship. Not on the big ugly bill, not on
saving Medicare for the rest of us, not on saving

(05:11):
Medicaid for the poor and the least of these amongst us,
not repairing our schools, fixing our infrastructure, not even on
grotesque tax breaks for the very wealthy. They've all come
together agreeing that what took place in the world of
Jeffrey Epstein is so henious that it must be brought

(05:35):
to the attention of the American people. And the President
of the United States is doing everything he can to
call it a big nothing burger. Not a single pundit
on CNN or MSNBC or on Fox News are buying it.
I'm Jesse Jackson Jr. We're going to talk in this
hour about a number of issues, but this will be

(05:56):
first and foremost when doctor Ted Williams comes forward on
the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. Let's talk about it Friday
and Fat meet Fridays with none other than our regular
host on Fridays, Miss Gina Towns, who will be joining
us in the second hour, unless, of course, she decides
to pop in in the first hour. Our very special
guest in this hour, his doctor Ted Williams, actor, teacher, preacher, author, thinker, philosopher,

(06:23):
and I just figured out, and I'm clearer now than
I ever should have been, that you actually should have
been elected to the city council and or whatever position
you run in the future. Ted, Welcome to the Jesse
Jackson Junior Show.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I think, thank you, my brother. We will have that
conversation offline because I know we got other folks thinking
about some offices here, so we'll have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
We'll do that, Ted, Welcome to the show. Ted. I've
been asking, and I raised this question before the show
today about the deflection about why MAGA is so divided
over this question uestion of Jeffrey Epstein. It is royal
in Washington, d C. It is creating some unusual alliances

(07:09):
between Democrats and Republicans who want to know more information
while the President of the United States and Attorney General
Bondi keep calling it one big nothing burger. At this hour,
Ted the second in command of the Department of Justices
meeting with Gislaine Maxwell, and that doesn't sound like a
big nothing burger to me. Yeah, yeah, well, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
The thing is that we're talking to this woman. You
would think that they would have talked to her first.
This is you know, you know, you would think she's
been the first witness that she would have called in
this situation. But brother, as you know very well. You know,
my parents used to always tell me, if you have

(07:54):
nothing that you've done wrong, you don't have any reason
to hide it. If you have nothing that you've done wrong,
then you should be let all of the information out.
And we know this president has been morally compromised in
myriad ways, and this is just another example of how
this administration does not walk this information out. We don't

(08:15):
know for sure what Donald Trump ultimately did, but we
know that he was very close to mister Epstein engaged
in some of this, and if he really believes that
he's innocent and his administration does let the information out now, Maga,
as you realize, you know, they peddle in conspiracy theory,
and so this conspiracy theory around Epstein really kind of started,

(08:36):
you know, under the Biden administration. They were talking about it.
And now that their royal leader could potentially be convicted
in this way, many of them who are such puists,
And that's the thing, as you know, politically, my brother,
the extremists are of the extremists, the purest are of
the purists. They don't really care about who it is.

(08:57):
This is going to tear Maga apart, my brother. I'm
gonna grab me some popcorn because I am here for it.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
I can only I can only think that most of
us with a conscience, and I am not suggesting at
all that this idea of pedophilia or trafficking in child

(09:25):
sex labor is excusable. It is an unexcusable, for unforgivable
sin as far as I'm concerned, the lives that are
at stake, the lives that have been devastated by it.
It is what it is, and it's tragic. But it
seems to me that this is the straw that breaks

(09:46):
the camel's back, not the people who are being kicked
off of dialysis, not the people who are being kicked
off of Medicaid, Not the people in the big Better
Bill who are losing their jobs at the federal government.
Literally of thousands of people unable to make their mortgages
as a result of their expectations of having employment, the

(10:07):
impact of AI. No, that's not what's going to bring
the Big Emperor down. It is chilling hang in with
Jeffrey Epstein, possibly on the Lolita Express, at a little
island and at a number of parties where well they
just won't get right.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Well, here's the deal. So MAGA hates the establishment, and
what Donald Trump did was he rode their hatred for
the establishment on into the White House twice. But the establishment,
whether it be on the left, they tend to hate
sort of big business on the right, it's in the
big government. The ultimate truth is is that Epstein kind

(10:50):
of represents establishment at its finest financially otherwise in his connection.
So he's an easy villain for MAGA. They would love
to be able to take I've taken him down and
all the people around him, and they would love to
diss for this to have been Bill Clinton. But it's not.
And so because it is Donald Trump, and because ultimately

(11:11):
mag is a bit uncontrollable, Trump was able to ride
their hatred ultimately to what he is doing now. And
I think hatred is a thing that unites them. But
my brother, we've watched enough superhero movies, We've watched enough cartoons,
read enough Greek mythology, etc. To know that the villains
don't do too well partnered up together. They tend to

(11:32):
like each other for a moment, but their hatred and
their ego ultimately gets them, and that's what is going
on now. Also, I want to say this from a
theological perspective because I love talking to you, because you
are able to navigate the political space, navigate the theological space,
navigate the political space in an ideological way in and
on the ground practical way in the history. I love

(11:54):
talking to you about this. I want to talk about
selective morality because ultimately it is very interesting to me
to your point that this is the straw that breaks
the cop camel's back. What is it? I was thinking
about two deaths this week, Malcolm Jamal Warner, who we
were connected to in our family, and I have been
really heartbroken this week with his loss, and then thinking

(12:16):
about hal Cogan's loss and thinking about hal Cogan specifically
around his racist history, and I realized that Americans have
a very weird sense of morality. They're willing to forgive
a racist, but they were not necessarily willing to to
give an adulter who got caught at the cold Play
concert last week in front of the world. And so

(12:39):
I also think about American morality and go, well, what
is the line? Why is you know, haw cogan sin
less critical than this gentleman's sin? And what is and
why is? Why are we all over Diddy and all
these other folks but you're not over Trump in this way?
Why are we not going after him? And what I
see in this, my brother, is that, blessedly, the one
thing I will say about America, as morally challenged as

(13:03):
it may be, at least I believe we're uniting around
the idea that pedophilia is wrong, and that, my brother,
in a world where you see so much selected morality
is actually for me a sign of encouragement.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
You know, Ted, Let's hang around selective morality for a moment,
because there are factors in why morality can be viewed
and seen legitimately as selective right. So we see Colin
Kaepernick take a knee, even though African Americans are largely
responsible for a number of stars placed on the flag
that Betsy Ross first designed during the American Revolution. Two states,

(13:41):
one free, one slave, and then ultimately California, Nebraska, and
then ultimately eleven stars decide they no longer want to
be part of the blag the Civil War. Colin Kaepernick,
against that backdrop, takes a knee. But when the former
quarterback of the New England Patriots took a knee or

(14:07):
premature births or abortion or life, the same person who
took a knee during those Star Spangled banners, there was
no criticism of his right to kneel before the flag,
claiming that he was concerned and feared for his country.

(14:28):
When I take a knee and fear for my country,
there's selective morality in that moment. That's the only thing
that separates the two is race. One might take a
step or a flag or a knee for LGBTQ rights.
That's their business, it's our business, it's what our nation,

(14:50):
equality for all persons represents. But then on the other hand,
when they stand up for their rights. We stand in judgment.
Selective morality, build out selective morality for us.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, I love the historic examples that you've used, and
I think that that selective morality is intrinsically connected to
the identity of what it means to be an American.
And I think here we are, four hundred, four hundred
and six years after the first twenty enslaved Africans arrived

(15:28):
on the shores of Point Comfort, Virginia, August twentieth, sixteen nineteen,
we have still not gained the status of being Americans.
We have still not gained the idea that when you
think about what America means and who America is, that
you would see my face, so you would see your face.
We are still, as doctor King talked about the idea

(15:51):
that you cannot have a first class nation with second
class citizens. We're still second class citizens in that way.
Even though many people say, well, look at how good
you have to hear African American driven to do this
that that, But we're still second class citizens in this society,
which Malcolm Jamal Warner talked about in a lot of
his poetic work. People looked at him and go, well, man.
You were famous Hi on the Cosby show. You to this,

(16:13):
he said, yeah, but I am still a black man
in America, and I understand what it means to have
second class citizenship in that way. So what we see,
my brother, this morality question and the selective morality is
you know, I have a friend that said to me
that we judge other people by their actions, and we
judge ourselves by our intentions. We judge other people by

(16:35):
their actions, we judge ourselves by our intentions. So we
are oftentimes able to give ourselves and people that look
like us the benefit of the doubt when it comes
to morality, but we don't do that for others. And
we've been. Other Latinos have been, other the LGBTQQ community
has been, Other immigrants have been, Other people that have
disabilities have been othered. And as long as there is

(16:57):
an other ring of large swaths of the American we
will have a double standard when it comes to morality.
You and I will not be able to get away
with the things that other people have. You know well,
I know well in my life, and that, my friends,
is something. As we celebrate the two hundred and fifty
year anniversary of this country next year. If we want

(17:17):
to make it another two hundred and fifty years or beyond,
we will have to define, redefine our understanding of what
it truly means to be an American citizen. Colin Kaepernick
is as patriotic as anybody else in this country because
he took a knee to say that he wants his
country to live by that constitution, live by that declaration.

(17:38):
And until the American people see this, until we understand
that we are stronger together than we are apart. This country,
as Abraham Lincoln said and the Bible said, a house
divided against itself cannot stand. We will not stand unless
we get this right. And that's the biggest danger in
this president. And I pray to God that our next president,

(17:59):
our next Congress will understand and undo the damage that
he has done and continue to do that has been
tearing this country apart.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Let me press that a little bit forward, so he
pivots in the middle of this crisis to the arrest
and the call for investigations of President Barack Obama. Your
thoughts on that pivot ted well, as.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
You and I both know, my brother, when I first
heard that Donald Trump was running for off his way
back in twenty fifteen. I thought it was a joke.
I never took him seriously. And he continues now, having
been in the spotlight in this way for over a
decade now, he continues to remind me of why I
did not take him seriously to begin with. Here you
are in the middle of not only your policies that

(18:45):
you've laid out in what you believe to be very
critical to the country, this bill that you've put forward,
the tear off policies that you've put forth, the major
cuts you ought to be pressing into these issues. Yet
because of your moral failing, as we've seen throughout his life,
they have come back to bite him.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
You can't get away from your past. And so what
he has done is as he's always done in his career.
He picks fights with people so that he can get
the attention away from the things that would make him
look to be truly who he is President Obama. The
idea that President Obama in some way, shape or form,

(19:26):
manipulated the election through this conversation around the Russian collusion.
We know there was collusion with Russia. Donald Trump admitted
to himself when he was running for office. If you
remember his words Russia, if you're listening, we find these
things out Russia, if you go find these things outbout him.
So this is not a secret to anyone, and anyone

(19:48):
who is serious, whether you're a Republican or Democrat. By
the way, if you are a serious person, you will
see this for what it is. Release the list, show
us who was on that list. Why are we talking
about Obama right now? Now? This is deflection at its finest,
and we have to be steadfast in working against it.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Ted about three minutes before we come forward. Is there
hope for bipartisanship? I hate that it's around the idea
of the moral failings of the president and the corrupt
attitude and approach by the Department of Justice. But it
seems that Democrats and Republicans have found some kind of
common ground on this question of as you stated, pedophilia,

(20:29):
sex trafficking as a kind of standard beneath which no
American should fall.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, I also think it's going to be impossible for
them to justify this to their constituencies. And you, once
again have been in Congress, you understand that. I mean,
part of this is their own moral compass and a
lot of it has to do with them making sure
that when it's all said and done, that they can
get reelected themselves and make sure that they are looking

(20:56):
a certain way to the public. I'm for bipartisanship, however,
it looks particularly around this question, and so I am
excited right about the idea. You know, for many of
us who've been watching this man for a decade, we're like,
what is the floor? Where is the bar? What is it?
We thought when he said let's grab a boy, you
know what, that was the floor? We thought when he

(21:17):
said Russia, are you listening? That was the floor he thought?
When you know, I mean, you go down the list
right of all the things that he has done, and
I'm like, is this what has taken ten years? Hey,
it's okay, I'm here for it, right. You know, we
are spiritual people, so that you know the old idea
of the old folks to say, trouble don't last always.
You know, we got to persevere. We've been making door

(21:38):
for a night, but joy is coming in the morning.
My brother, I'm like, man, this has been a long
rainstorm that we've been in waiting for this guy to
get hit. So let's go ahead and let's press it,
and those midterms are coming, and I think that is
what is most significant around this, because if we can
get this Congress back, then we can change the dynamic
of what has been going on the last six months,

(21:58):
which feels like six years.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I know we're going to talk about this when we
come forward, and I'm going to try and convinced our
executive producer to join us. She is clearly enjoying herself
in the background year of this conversation. But I think
it interesting when we talk about the midterms that all
of the press that I've seen this week suggests that

(22:21):
Democrats still are not the overwhelming beneficiary of the president's
moral collapse, that we're still not leading in the polling
that suggests we are the alternative. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior.
You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show and can't
bla talk fifteen to eighty when we come forward more
with Ted Williams, Jesse Jackson Junior, Jessey j Junior Show

(22:43):
on Fat with Williams and in our regular host, Gina Towns,
our executive producer and the creator of the Jesse Jackson
Junior show. Hey, you know Ted During the break, I
was reading an article and lost Angelus Times where FEDS
have now charged southern California medical workers with interfering with

(23:06):
ice rays. Now check this out. These brown brothers and
sisters were cutting grass, shaving bushes, cutting trees, and they
ran into a medical facility seeking to avoid ice and
now the medical workers are being charged with interfering with ice. Now,

(23:30):
I'm sure we can give this example across the country,
not just in Southern California, but wherever these raids are
taking place. And somehow innocent victims whose doors may be
open to the idea that humanity is calling, knocking on
their door and suffering that they could very well end
up with a federal charge in a felony. Your thoughts

(23:52):
about the continuing oppressive approaches of the Immigration, Customs and
Enforcement Agency and their political use in these major municipalities
across the country.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
This has been one of the most disturbing and disgusting
uses of the government's force that I have ever seen
in really American history, and America has a very solid
history when it comes to the use of the government
to enforce laws that are unjust. I was just reading

(24:28):
about a pastor of three and father of three who
was sent to Alligator Alcatraz as they call it, from
overstaying his visa half a century excuse me about about
twenty years ago. And when I look at this idea
that they are that they are trumpeting, if you will, okay,

(24:52):
that we are going to ultimately just be going after criminals.
We're going to make America safe again, going after those
who are trying to engage in crime. This is not
the reality of the people that they are deporting. This
is not an issue of public safety. This is not
an issue of trying to make sure that people aby

(25:16):
by the laws. This is truly an issue of the aphobia.
This is truly an issue of fomenting fear. This is
truly an issue of really throwing red meat at his base.
And I have to tell you, my brother, as you
understand this, our struggles are connected and united. One of

(25:37):
Trump's close advisors mentioned just a few weeks ago that
maybe we ought to send sixty five million people to
our Alligator Alcatraz. Well, the numbers that there are excuse me,
six hundred fifty million people. The numbers that they use
were the exact numbers of the number of Latino people
who were in the city, excuse me, in the country.
And when they talk about this, they're not talking about

(26:00):
just people who are posing a threat to the country.
This is an attack on black and brown folks. This
is an attack on people who they see as weak
people who they want to exploit through the economy, but
outside of that, really have no use for And let
me say this again, my brother and we understand economics

(26:22):
very well. If there was not a demand for this
labor coming across the border, if there were not people
that look like Donald Trump in his circle hiring these
folks who are coming across the border, they would not
be here. So it is easy to beat up on
and bully those who cannot fight back, who have no wealth,

(26:47):
oftentimes struggle with the language, have no connections. It's easy
to beat up on them to make your base satisfied.
But if we're really serious about this immigration issue, let's
go prosecute the corporation that are hiring these books who
are coming across the border. Let's prosecute the wealthy people
are doing that. And you and I both know that's
not going to happen.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
I was reading an article maybe two weeks ago where
Christy nom I think it was the head of Intelligence
or Homeland security, whatever it is. And when asked the
question about the shortage of agricultural workers that could be
the result of these ice raids, she said, well, there'll

(27:32):
be plenty of people available who presently receive medicaid benefits,
and that if we can get these people to work
in the fields, they will have earned their benefits.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
These people are in this administration have to be, with
all due respect to my fellow human beings, the most ignorant,
un serious, race baiting, xenophobic, fearful people that you could
possibly have running a government. They have no idea what

(28:13):
they're doing. And I'm gonna mention because I meant to
say this earlier, if they were serious again about this.
Why have we not seen Europeans who overstayed their visa
in these ice rays? Why are we not going after
folks from Eastern Europe who there are thousands upon thousands
of them here who are here illegally. Why have we
not seen this? Because this is not serious, just as

(28:35):
I was saying about, you know, and I don't want
to move off of this, but if you want whatever
this distraction question, how Trump is going after for the
Washington commanders right now because he's trying to continue to distract.
All of this is a distraction and anything. People are stupid. Well, unfortunately,
the American people, at least part of the American people

(28:56):
have proven their level of ignorance too even believe this mess. Thankfully, Thankfully,
there I believe is at least half of the country
that can see this for what it is, and that
half has got to get out of vote in these
midterms to make sure that we can really take this
country back.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Do you think that's translating into midterms? The polling suggests
that Democrats are not the beneficiaries of what's going on
right now.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, that's a very very good point. And you know,
as you know as well from having run for office,
it will all be about to turnout and it's all
going to be about who the actual candidates are. The
Democrats are not very popular in all honesty, I mean,
in many ways, their messaging in this last election was hey,
we're not Donald Trump. Now. For people like me, that
was enough, right because I would have voted for Mickey

(29:41):
Mouse over Donald Trump in this last election or any
other election. The Democrats have to galvanize the folks to
see and understand if they are the solution, They've got
to come out with bold policies like our brother Zoron
Mom Donnie in New York City and go for what

(30:02):
the people actually want in a very progressive way, and
not be afraid as the Democrats have tried to play
safe over the years and put forth moderate candidate to
a really not pushing for the working class in that way.
I think if we can do that, I think if
we can make have those kinds of candidates, I think
the Democrats will be just fined. But I do understand
your polling numbers, and those are a little frightening because

(30:25):
ultimately what people will probably do in that case is
not vote for anyone, and that doesn't do it any good.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
I'm going to opine for just about forty five seconds
before we come forward, because we're heading to our next break,
and I'm being told now that I cannot opine. This
is KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior listening
to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. When we come forward,
Ted Williams will be our guest. I'm Jesse Jackson Junior,
Welcome forward to Kblaton fifteen eighty and the Jesse Jackson
Junior Show. My very special guest is none other than

(30:54):
doctor Ted Williams. Doctor Ted Williams is an actor, a professor, sir,
a thinker of theologian, a minister, and just an overwhelmingly
well rounded person whose mind, from my perspective, deserves a
much higher stage than the Jesse Jackson Junior Show. And
I'm going to do everything I can to keep your
mind way out there. Doctor Williams, Welcome forward to the

(31:17):
Jesse Jackson Junior Show.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Thank you, my brother, Thank you so much because it
means a lot.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Doc. Let me let me ask you this question. Back
to these Democrats for a minute. I just don't hear
a message coming from the Democrats that say, or even
suggest that, if they were able to regain control of
Congress or regain control of the White House, that these
ice rates are going to stop. I just don't hear that.
I don't see a proposal for a new Department of Education,

(31:44):
the jump starting of the United States Agency for International Development,
everything that he's run through. I just don't see democratic
leadership saying that we are running to restore that which
has been taken from the American people. I just don't
see it happening. Hell, could that have anything to do
with it? That Democrats might allow Republicans to establish a

(32:06):
new normal that they themselves don't have the courage to correct.
Do correct. Let me say that clearly too correct, losing
my voice saying it too correct? Help me, doctor Williams.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yes, brothers, So you know, I'm gonna let me. I'll
give them a criticism, but let me give them the
benefit of the doubt for one moment. First here, I
would say that, you know, after reading Project twenty twenty
five and going through that, understanding kind of the onslaught
of stuff that they are trying to put forward, it

(32:38):
is a bit overwhelming. And I think what's happening is
it's almost like you know, uh, you know, people are
trying to plan whack a mole with all of the
various things that are coming up, and you run over
here and you deal with this issue and then try
to do something else today, and then it's it's like
boom boom, boom boom, And that's what's going on. And
so to be fair, the Democrats are running around like
like chickens with their heads cut off. Now they do

(33:01):
need to put forth a different vision. But I'm gonna
say this, my brother, you know this very well. You
know I am concerned about the lack of progressive vision
in the Democratic Party. You know, I love our brother Barack.
But the truth is that before Trump was deporting to people,
Barack Obama was deporting a lot of people. In fact,

(33:22):
under the Obama administration, they deported more people they did
under the first Trump administration. And so it's not that
the Democrats are anti deportation. Democrats are not necessarily anti
guns in that way. We haven't really pushed forth any
progressive legislation in that way either. Democrats have not gone
forward on very controversial economic plans like reparations or universal

(33:46):
universal income, universal basic income, those kinds of policies that
are extremely progressive, that are extremely different. And I would
suggest that if they don't pull, it's like a tugg
of you got to pull all the way to the
other side to get everybody even back to the middle
of this point. And it's all about leadership. We have

(34:07):
seen this historically. Presidents changed the nation. We realize that
FDR galvanized poor folks, got them into Democratic Party the
African American community got behind the Democratic Party heavily under
LBJ and JFK. Donald Trump has changed the Republican Party.
Nixon in his Southern strategy shifted to the Republican Party,

(34:29):
and so leadership the right leaders. This is why this
presidential candidate, the stets when we picked, is going to
be very important. And this is why it's very important
who we pick for Congress, because we cannot have people
who are willing to compromise themselves just to get elected.
We have to have radical vision.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Towards radical vision, the movement against diversity, equity, and inclusion
is now working its way over to something as fundamental
and as crucial as the Voting Rights Act of nineteen
sixty five. Texas is now suggesting that they are willing
to redraw or congressional districts, which would have a ripple

(35:08):
effect across the entire state, changing the makeup of every
Congressional delegation or member in the state of Texas. Under
the argument that these districts, which were historically drawn to
give African Americans specifically, but minorities in particular, an equal
opportunity of getting elected to Congress, so that Congress may

(35:29):
be desegregated so that Congress may be desegregated as an institution.
And then the state of California is now responding by saying,
if Texas engages in a mid decade redistricting scheme, that
they too will engage in a mid decade scheme to

(35:52):
offset whatever lasses could occur from redistricting in Texas. Now
between Democrats and Republicans over all fifty of the states,
it means changing the lines that could lead to first
reconstruction zero blacks in Congress by the turn of the century.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
You know, I I I am number one, angry, number
one two heartbroken but number one or number but number three.
I understand where we are in history, and many of
us used to look back at your father's generation and
the work that was done in the sixties and say, man,

(36:35):
if I were alive during that time, what would I
have done?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I would have done X, Y and Z. Well, we
were alive during that time. Let me remind us, though,
that this attack on the Voting Rise Act really was emboldened, calcified,
moved forward, empowered by the twenty thirteen Shelby Beholder case,
which really moved us backwards under the idea of removing

(37:02):
this preclearance for states that had shown that they were
in violation of the civil rights laws. So Trump has
set himself up. The Republicans have even really prior to
Trump to roll us back, to make America whatever they
want it to be again. And so I'm actually not
surprised by this. I am grateful. I think I'm grateful

(37:24):
for states like California. I'm grateful for states like Illinois.
I'm grateful for states like New York who have said
that we will use our power to stand against this.
We will not let this happen silently. But there are
far too many states that use geramandering to draw districts anyway,
and so maybe this will expose the rest of the
country that has drawn out our participation within the political process.

(37:49):
This is horrific, It is disturbing. It is an insult
to Malcolm Xican Mega Evers and doctor King and the
work within your father and the work of all of
the civil rights leaders. But I tell you, brother, if
this does not wake people up, I do not know
what will. And in that way, as someone who is
engaged in educating young people around these questions, I am

(38:11):
excited to let them know that they must be involved
and to ignite them, and I'm hopeful and prayerful that they.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Will till we have about four minutes before the break.
You mentioned the young people, when you share these issues
with them, are they ignited? Do they understand and comprehend
the gravity of what is taking place? I'm going to
ask you to share with us that thought, but also
in the context of hopefully some hopefulness that there is

(38:42):
some bright light by this generation and their willingness to
stand up. Like John Lewis, did you.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Know what I love about younger people is their impatience.
They don't understand compromise and politics. They don't understand why
things don't change. They don't understand why certain people are
in positions and how that works. They don't understand that
and don't necessarily care. The biggest challenge that I see
currently is helping them to understand their power, their sense

(39:13):
of power, that they truly have power. That we understand
Doctor King was twenty six when he led the Montgomery
bus boycott. We understand that all great movements have really
come from young people, and so they have the power
and the technology to do things the generation before us
never could the real challenge I think that has existed.

(39:37):
Number one is its power issue. But also, you know,
comfort is a very dangerous thing. My brother and the
more comfortable we are as Americans, the less we feel
like we ought to do something, particularly for other people.
There are two things that are most missing in our society.
Empathy and critical thinking. The idea that even if I'm
comfortable that I need to move so my brother would

(40:00):
that would be okay? Who's in discomfort suffering discomfort? That
is the empathy piece. The other side is a critical
thinking to understand why we're in the position that we're in.
So if we can really focus on that, and that's
what I do with my young people, and many, many,
many educators across the country are doing that. I'm hopeful
about what they can do because they're not waiting. Man,
those that get ignited, those that get quote unquote woke

(40:22):
are some dangerous phenomenal people and moving some moving it.
I just we got to get more of our young
people in that space.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I'm glad. I think I saw some of that activity
in the Mamdani campaign. Yes, I think we saw it
in the leadership of Alexandria Cassio Cortez and Miss Jasmine Crockett, right.
I mean, we see it in the Justins down in
Tennessee when they stood up to the state legislature over
gun control. And so there are these these shining examples

(40:51):
of young people saying enough is enough. I don't think
there's enough of them. I'd like to see more. I
like to see the kind of activism that led Julian
Bond and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and others to
engage in a civil world test that changed the course
of American history and the world. I'd love to see

(41:13):
more of that. What it takes to get us there,
I'm not so sure, not so sure, but excited about
the prospects that we have younger legs, newer legs who
are willing to fight for what is right. I do
understand in this moment that doctor Ted Williams is going
to be joining us in the first segment of Fat
Meat Fried Days on Reflectivity with our executive producer, Gina Towns.

(41:37):
I'm Jesse Jackson Junior more with Ted Williams, and we're
bringing forward Gina Towns on the Jesse Jackson Junior Show.
You're listening to KBLA talk fifteen to eighty. This hour
we call it Fat Meat Fridays on The Jesse Jackson
Junior Show, and our very special guest is Gina Towns.
Gina is the president and CEO of five nineteen Productions
and the executive producer and director of The Jesse Jackson

(41:58):
Junior Show. A graduate of Hampton University with the degree
in Mass Communications, Arts and Journalism, Gina also earned her
master's in Theology and Social Justice from Princeton Theological Seminary.
She is the co producer of the Emmy Award nominated
documentary Hampton University, One of the Wonders of the World,
and as the writer and performer her single Yes Hitt

(42:18):
number twenty six with a bullet on Billboard's charts. She
produced and directed a live broadcast on An Afternoon with
doctor Lewis Sullivan, m D. And influenced a rewritere of
the opening scene of the Position of Morehouse School of
Medicine's brand while directing communications, logistics and location management of

(42:40):
the HBO film The Immortal Life of Henry Atta Lax. Gina,
Welcome forward to The Jesse Jackson Junior Show.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Well, Hello Jesse Jackson Junior and Happy Friday, Fat Meet Friday.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Yes it is.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Ted is our very special guest in this hour, Ted Williams,
Ted Geni is here.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Hey, Hey, hey, Gina, how are you. I love hearing,
love hearing your excessive background and bio. It's always cool
to listen and hear of all three of us. The
multifaceted nature of our life experiences and careers.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Absolutely always my pleasure to be with you, around you
and are vicarious common experiences as well.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Absolutely, Gina.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
We were talking with Ted just before the break about DEI.
We were talking about the Voting Rights Act of nineteen
sixty five. We've been talking about Epstein. We've been talking
about the absence of an alternative message and whether there's
a message at all from the Democratic Party that in
the midterms could prove as a kind of finger in

(43:54):
the dyke to what has been taking place in Washington,
d C.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Well, thank you for that question.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
I have reflected on all of what we've talked about,
and of course that is the first the reason why
we do fat Meat Friday, so we can trim away
the fat and have a lean piece of meat to
chew on for the rest of the week, and we
are reflectively active in our reflection on the things that
we talked about.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Now to your question.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
You know this wasn't on this this week, but I
am reminded in this moment when our guest John Les
was on a couple of months ago and he said,
sometimes it's not the message. Sometimes you can have the
best message, but you don't have the right messenger. And
that may be some of what the Democratic Party is

(44:46):
facing and needing new faces in other places. And that
goes to what Ted was talking about when you asked
him about his students, And you know, how do they
think about what's going on? And I think about my
own children and what their attitudes are about the political process,
and so you just want to keep them engaged and

(45:07):
help them not throw up their hands and disengage or at.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Staying this is the system in which you have to change.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Ted, we hear we've heard often from Ossi Davis and others.
It's not the wrap, it's the map, it's not the man,
it's the plan. My dad said, well, plans don't just
kind of show up without somebody carrying them. So the
man does matter, the woman does matter. To the articulation

(45:35):
of a vision doctor, King is not on an island
unto himself. There are lots of people are offering leadership
during this period, but he emerges as a clear voice,
a clarion call man.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, the idea of charisma, right, is actually a spiritual gift.
And this actually that word actually comes out of a
Greek word, a Greek term that is something that is powerful,
and people have charisma and are able to use it

(46:12):
for good or for evil. We need charisma, charismatic leadership.
We need a plan, solid plan, we need public policy.
But even beyond all of that, we need people with hearts, right.
We need leadership that has a heart for the people.
And there are people out there like that. Now, whether they,
through our unfortunately broken political process, get the what I

(46:36):
call the three ends of politics, the money, media, and
mobilization to get themselves in a position to have authority
and leadership, that's a whole nother question. But those of
us that know better have to empower folks like that
to do the work that needs to be done, because
ultimately our democracy really is dependent upon us finding folks

(46:57):
who can provide an alternate vision to the fact the
division and the racism that we see right now.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Thank you for that because one of the things that
I took a note on while you were talking, and
it came up several times. It came up on Wednesday
with the Tiba Madon when he talked about the fact
that we have to be able to look in the
mirror and deal with ourselves first, and from there comes
our vision, and from vision comes hope. And of course

(47:26):
we know where the people have no vision, they perish
because they are without hope. But we have to start
with a sense of self love and community love for
our neighbor.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
And I think that's part of what you have to
hear in the message as well.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Ted, Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more. This is
why this, you know, Malcolmax said that we don't have
the luxury of fight on any one front. We must
fight on all fronts in the battle for social justice
and for civil rights. And I think this is why
the conversation that we're having is so critical, because at
the end of the day, as the three of us

(48:01):
have talked about in the past, these are moral questions.
Budgets are moral documents. How we treat children, or moral
questions how we treat the elderly, Those are moral questions.
How we treat people who are marginalized or moral questions,
and if you don't have the moral compass to engage
in this, then leadership is not for you. One of

(48:23):
the most disheartening parts of our current president's work in
its administration is that I think, as I've said to
you before, the two things that are most lacking in
our society most needs are empathy and critical thinking. I
don't think he shows any of them. I don't think
he shows empathy for people who are not like him.
I don't think he has critical thinking to even understand

(48:44):
what is happening beyond what is on the surface. And
so for me, I am just excited about finding new leaders,
new spaces, invigorating leaders who've been around. But if I've
ever seen a need for leadership in this country, now now,
now is the time.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
I'm Jesse Jackson Jr. This is KVLA Talk fifteen eighty.
You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show on Fat
Meat Fridays with Gina Towns and our very special guest,
doctor Ted Williams. When we come forward, our weekly series
presents Fat Meat Fridays and Reflectivity with our special guest
Gina A. Towns and our very special guest, because Gina
is a regular host on our program, Doctor Ted Williams.

(49:26):
Doctor Williams, welcome for it. On The Jesse Jackson Junior Show.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Happy Friday, Happy Friday, Happy Friday.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
I can't believe it's Friday. I can't believe it. I
feel like I should put on Johnny Camp.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I don't know. Did you just get paid? That's the question.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
That's a Friday, that's a problem. I want to pitch
this over to Gina. Gina really gives some idea to
this idea of looking in the mirror. This Michael Jackson song.
I'm starting with the Man in the Mirror and on reflectivity.
It gives us an opportunity to look at ourselves in

(50:03):
the mirror and raise some critical questions.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Yeah, because when we look in the mirror, and you
know that Michael had plenty of prolific songs, but among them,
I think that is the most reflective, the most gut
heavy song, because people had to wonder, is Michael looking
in the mirror at himself and all of the transformation

(50:27):
that he went through physically that we could see, and
certainly there had to be a lot of emotional transformation
in the things that he endured on a public stage
around the world.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
But I was thinking.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
About how, you know, we are very comfortable and and
Ted talked about this, and that was one of the
big things when I was in the full time ministry
that we always got a woman about was comfort. And
the fact is, if you're going to follow Jesus, is
there anything that was comfortable about his existence or his life?

(51:02):
So there requires a transformation. It requires us to look
in the mirror. It requires us to teach our children
to look in the mirror. It requires us to discipline
them with love and not just physical. It means taking
the time to sit down to them. And so I
appreciate you being, you know, in the classroom, Ted and
working with young minds and helping to shape them and

(51:24):
their thoughts.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Because you can't have.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Transformative justice if you don't have a community and a
nation that continues to transform. And that is the reason
why there's an amendment process, because the Founders made sure,
or the framers made sure that as we progressed as
a nation chronologically and theologically, that we would be able

(51:48):
to govern ourselves according to what the transformation is.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah, and I would say speaking of transformation in education.
That is one of the things that is most concerning
about we are today in the defunding of education, shifting
our priorities, looking to a society that you know Thomas Jefferson,
I don't quote him often, I am not a big fan,
but I will say that one of the original visions

(52:15):
of education, public education was to create quality citizens who
understood democracy, understood how to vote, understood their place in
the society. And we really with the defunding of civics programs,
we're really losing that. AI has hit the classroom space,
making it so that people some fundamental skills that people

(52:38):
would live in in their work and they would learn
are not necessarily needed as much. And so the world
is shifting, the goal of education is shifting. But when
it comes to vocational education, although these things are changing,
the idea of civics does not change. And if you
think about this, if you defund education across the board,

(53:00):
you have a much easier time in manipulating people and
having a populace that does not know what the heck
they're voting for, doesn't understand who their congressman is, doesn't
understand that three brands of the government doesn't understand their
rights in a democratic society. That I believe is ultimately
kind of where this thing is headache. You know. I

(53:21):
don't quote Jefferson often, I don't quote Hitler often, but
Hitler said that how fortunate it is for leaders when
men don't think, when you don't have a thinking populace,
it is the greatest thing in the world for narcissistic
fascist leaders like the ones I believe that we're seeing today.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
I absolutely, I'm so glad you said that, because the
whole idea, and that's the attack on the university's right
off the bat.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
So I have a question for Gina and for doctor Williams.
I was reading an article by doctor Lawrence where it's
in the Root in the opinion section. It says Professor
explains why Black X millennials are what's wrong with Black America.
The article reads, It's easy to blame President Donald Trump
for like eighty two percent of contemporary Black America z ills,

(54:11):
But is he really the one to blame here? Are
members of Generation X and millennials unknowingly dismantling Black America?
Heavy question? So let's step back for a second. We
need definitions gen x are born between nineteen sixty five
and nineteen eighty. Now, millennials are born between the early
nineteen eighties and the mid nineteen nineties. There's disagreement about

(54:32):
the exact year, so let's just say nineteen eighty one
to nineteen ninety six. Now here's the issue. The history
of black people in America is one where the previous
generation paved the way for the younger one. The last
generation of slaves toiled and thought so that their kids
could prosper. The same is true for people that generation
derisively called the boomers. So what you want about their

(54:54):
inability to drive homophobia and dated taste in music. Black
folks who are Boomers and members of the Greatest Generation
laid the foundation for the comfortable life Americans enjoy today.
These are the ones who fought in World War One
in World War Two. But what have we done, millennials
and Gen xers. Let's talk about it, and let's take
our time and talk about it. The article says, the

(55:15):
majority of us first are politically inactive. Number two, we
live comfortably in McMansions. Number three, black boys are out
here clamoring for exotic or outright white girls. Black America
is in a precarious position. Older generations understood something that
many of us are forgotten, have forgotten. We are not

(55:36):
white people. It may be twenty twenty five, but we
must fight people so that the next generation of black
people will have it better than we had it. Gen
X and millennial black folks, one question, are we the problem? Gina,
come with it now?

Speaker 3 (55:52):
So I am not willing to put on the shoulders
and the back of millennium and gen X to say
that you're the problem, because America is a melting pot
and in that pot have also been things. And I
put this comment in the chat during a Teava show

(56:13):
because that's that reflective conversation man in the mirror conversation
that we need to come back to faith, We need
to come back to who we are. We need to
pull our pants up, we need to we need to
do a lot of things. A lot of people need
to do a lot of things. But there are also
things that have not been done.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
For us.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
And then there are then things throughout the past sixty
years that have been done to us. And so we've
been in somewhat of.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
A cold war.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
As we look at education that has not been equal
high quality healthcare that is not of equal high quality.
And then we see districts that are gerrymandered. As far
as voting, it has become more and more difficult.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
For people to vote.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
And so, just like Ted said, if you were going
to take away social studies and civics, you have to
have a teacher classroom and parents at home who are
willing to fill the gap on the things that have happened. Now,
if I go from president to president and talk about
the things that happened during their presidencies in the black community,
I can go to crack cocaine and I can you know,

(57:20):
and this starts way back.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
So Project twenty twenty five is not.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Really, you know, a new thing. It has been in
development for a long time. But I'll stop right there
and let somebody jump in on that.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
TI. Yeah, I'll say this. I am a bona fide
gen xer born right in the middle of that description
and grew up in the eighties and nineties, And let
me say this, this is what happened to us. I
believe number one, we were the beneficiaries of the work
that our parents did to move us into these integrated communities.

(57:53):
We grew up in diversity where our parents did not.
And what we thought was that when we sang the song,
we shall overcome, we thought we had overcome already. It
wasn't until and I can tell you, you know, as I
think about my childhood and watching the Hawk Cogans of
the World and the Christopher Reeves and Superman of the World,

(58:15):
and then of course Jordan and Walter Payton for me,
and Michael Jackson and Prince and people like that, there
was a lot of diversity in terms of popular culture
in the eighties, and so we thought that we had
gotten somewhere. We at the Cosby Show and Different Stokes
and all these shows that showed black folks living well.
And then Rodney King happened. And I'm going to say

(58:36):
that Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and George Floyd were the
three most significant figures in recent black history for our
generation because they woke us up and they helped us
to understand every one of these cases that though we
may have lived in the suburbs, though our parents had
sent us to good schools, though we had decent clothing,

(59:00):
I grew up my dad was a car dealer, and
we were blown to a country club and all of
these things. And I remember having a conversation with him
at one point about affirmative action. I put this in
my production sixteen nineteen that I do this conversation. I said, Dad,
we even need affirmative action. We're doing okay. And he said, boy, no,
I'm doing okay. You have you ain't got nothing. That's
how he said it. You better hope somebody give you

(59:24):
some affirmative actions or something so that your black boy
can get a job in a society, you know. And
so it was a wake up call for me. George
Floyd Trayvon, Martin Rodney King told the world that those
black folks might be excelling in popular culture, that in America,
when it comes to the tools and force of the

(59:46):
American government, we still are treated as second class citizens.
And in that way, I hope, not that I ever
want to see these things again, but I hope that
we don't lose the lessons and lose ourselves in the
pursuit of the almighty dollar in America, because ultimately, I
think we are deserved. We it's a disservice to us

(01:00:06):
if we do so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
I have a slightly different take, and it's not that
much of a different take, but it's a different take, right.
I think that first theological coming out of slavery, the
Israelites were commanded to remember this day. It presented itself

(01:00:28):
in the form of the Sator and the passover, the
Sator dinner. But the passover period of how we passed
over from Egyptian captivity to freedom for African Americans. While
the process of let my people go may not be
our process. The process by which Moses tried to appeal

(01:00:51):
to Pharaoh may not be our process. Our process is
a constitutional process. I share with my Jewish friends all
the time. Same God, the God of the Bible, is
the same God that didn't like slavery there. They don't
like slavery here. Right. But our process is not the
Egyptian process or the Furonic process. It is the process

(01:01:13):
by which we leave, by which we leave constitutional slavery,
slavery of for and by the people. It's a more
difficult process, I think than talking to one pharaoh, talking
to every single American state by state that you need
to amend the constitution to end a process and a

(01:01:35):
system that is outside of the grace of God. So
I want to just kind of make that point. But
the satir experience that Jewish people go through every year,
where they reflect upon what it meant to eat bitter
herbs and to go through this process is recited every
year or three thousand years. And so when I hear

(01:01:58):
about a generation acts, soar millennials, whatever generation that is,
we've given a label to where they know not the process,
our sator experience, our passover experience, and it's something way
back over there that God had nothing to do with.

(01:02:20):
And it's of course the same God that they read
about in the Bible. But somehow God's concerned about the
Bible story but not concerned about our story, which is
a huge leap. It just seems to me ted that
it is our fault that we do not have traditions
that make our story in our lives, which may be

(01:02:41):
the only thing that unites us as a people, our story.
That we have these tradition, we can't even make up
our mind what the hell we're supposed to do on Juneteenth.
I'm ashamed of quarteenth. I'm mad as hell on Juneteenth.
And they may be they barbecuing, they drinking, they making
babies over there. Come on, now, we got two more
years of slavery for free.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Shouldn't we be mad?

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Can we at least be mad on juneteen?

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Well, I would say that people really didn't even understand
what June teen's was, you know, the difference between watch
Night and you know, Juneteenth, as you said, you know,
because the slaves who actually found out in Texas had
a parade and a party because they finally found out.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
That sort of permeated the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Community as far as you know, you know how many
one hundred years later, And so we haven't really taught
that correctly. And I don't know, I can't say, you
know exactly whose fault that is, but it has to
be with us. And I think that's the point that
you're making, is that we haven't painted things over our thresholds,
over our door post to make sure that our children,

(01:03:52):
you know, knew their history if they weren't going to
get it at school. But I also think when we
come back, I want to discuss desegregation and community and
I think those are some very important points because if
they could rebuild Hiroshima and Nagasaki but not Watts and Detroit,
then you know, we have a whole nother conversation we
have to have in this country.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
All part of the same story for me. K Bla
Talk fifty eight. You're listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior
Show on Reflectivity and fat Meat Fridays with Gina Town's
the Jesse Jackson Juniors. But we're on Friday. We have
Reflectivity and fat Meat and Ted. Just before the break,
our very special guest is Ted Williams. He's an author,

(01:04:34):
he is a doctor, he is a teacher, a philosopher,
more degrees than we care to name. But I really
want to get to this point right here, doctor Williams,
and that's this. We don't agree on nothing. We don't
agree that Thanksgiving is about our history. It's not about

(01:04:56):
Native Americans. It's about the third Thursday in November that
Abraham Lincoln set aside because the North was winning the
war against the Confederacy. We don't agree that December thirty
first isn't about firecrackers and fireworks. It's about watch Night
and our freedom. We don't agree to January first, New

(01:05:17):
Year's Day is about the effective date of the Emancipation
Proclamation in the states that we were freed. We don't
agree that the first Memorial Day was about us when
black people walked around Union graves for the first time,
honoring the men who set us free. And we don't
even agree about Labor Day. Now, Labor Day labor day

(01:05:42):
as in like free slaves, like free labor versus slave labor.
We've turned Labor Day into all about the unions. But
what about free labor versus slave labor? I mean slave
labor versus you know, labor in the north, industrial labor.
We don't agree on our Sator story because the Sator

(01:06:03):
story and our past over is right there in front
of us every single day. Reverend Deacon doctor Williams help
me navigate this story.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
So I love to liken our story to the biblical
story of Joseph, and we understand Joseph's story was one
of unjust persecution. He ultimately was sold into slavery by
his brothers, he was falsely accused, went to prison, but

(01:06:42):
ultimately he ends up in a position where he is
able to provide grace to an entire community because of
the position of authority that he has found himself in.
So for African Americans, the glass is really not just
half empty, but half full. On the one hand, we
have been treated in horrific ways throughout this country that

(01:07:03):
we are still dealing with and we'll be dealing with
potentially for generations. But on the other hand, we have
been given unique access to an empire that we have
utilized in the in ways that have not really pushed
our progress substantially. The African American community, if you think
about it, is the envy of the world. Culturally. Our

(01:07:25):
people dominate the music and entertainment really across the world
fashion trends, and yet we've taken that and not moved
towards our own self empowerment in that way. I like you, brother,
get a little bit upset. I told somebody this year,
no joke, I'm that cure. I told you exactly this year.

(01:07:46):
I got one more June teeth than me. I've got one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Then I'm do some Frederick Douglass on them about I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Telling you, man, I'm telling you all these parties and barbecue,
I'm like, do you all even know what? What are we?
What are we celebrating? What are we doing? Why are
we not organizing? And so the United People is always
time to celebrate. I'm cool, I'm celebrating with you. I'm
gonna give you one more year. But I'm gonna tell
you after that, brother, if it's all man, if we're not,

(01:08:23):
I don't want to hear about the juneteen barbecue. I
want to hear about the Junete strategy session. I want
to hear about the Juneteenth Party. I want to hear
about Juneteenth protests. You know what I mean. Free state
of Jones, Yes, And that's what I'm saying, man, because
here we are celebrating a freedom that we don't even have.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
The thirteenth member till the Constitution still says that slavery
is legal in the United States of America. African Americans
still have one tenth, one tenth the wealth of our
European American counterparts. We are find ourselves last one every
social scale in this country, every measurement about the health

(01:09:04):
and quality of life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
We are between us and the indigenous dead last. Now,
let me say this very clearly. I don't blame us
for that completely. We didn't put ourselves in that position.
But last time I checked, they're not running to rescue us,
to get us out, and so we have an obligation
to not only hold this government accountable for reparations. Reparative

(01:09:26):
justice is what I love to call it because reparations
people get so controversial. Let's talk about repairing what is broken.
We can talk about slavery, we can talk about Jim Crow,
we can talk about redlining. We can do that all
right now. We don't have to go back two hundred years.
We can go back twenty years and start paying people
for what's the wrongs that were done by this government.

(01:09:47):
So for me, that is what we ought to be
dealing with on juneteen. That is what ought to constantly
be in our minds and our spaces. And as you
all mentioned, I'll close out here, as you mentioned with
the idea of the Jewish tradition of never forgetting this
idea that we would tell these stories to our children

(01:10:08):
and our children's children that were connected theologically once again,
which is why we have to have a theological basis
why the Jewish people have such unity. We only have
so much unity. Yeah, but there's a theological reason for
that unity. We have to learn from that, and we've
got to continue to fight our fight economically, educationally, and spiritually.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Carol and Elmore White is listening Gina in chat to Nuga, Tennessee.
I want to turn your program back over to you.
But I want to be crystal clear that I've also
received several texts that doctor Ted Williams is no longer
invited to anyone's Juneteenth celebration.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Let me get a good plate before our protest twenty seven.
I'm on it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
Ted brought up what I want to get to.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
And it gets so touchy with people because people don't
don't tell me about my faith, don't tell me I
need to believe, blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
But to Ted's point and to your point, Jesse, the
Satyr story, the Exodus story. Our exodus story is definitely different,
but an Exodus story nonetheless. And so as we look
at what girded down our community from the time that
they got off the slave ships, and if it was Islam, great,

(01:11:32):
let it be Islam. It can be Allah, it can
be God, it can be you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
I'm saying that there is a faith in a creator
because we are without excuse because of creation itself in
acknowledging how to love God with all of our heart, mind, soul,
and strength and our neighbor as ourself even when someone
else isn't doing it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
So one of the underpinnings.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Of our struggle was that we were a faith community.

Speaker 4 (01:12:01):
That is where we met.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
We looked out for each other, and parents were able
to stop, you know, a neighboring child from running through
the yard and said you need to stop running right now,
and the child would do so. And so when we
think about the things that have girded us, respect is
one of those things. And that kind of takes us
back to the man in the mirror conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
And it's not that we want to, you know, control
what people are doing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
But I believe we even talked about the fact that
the founders had brought it up that Jefferson wanted there
to be a common a commonality in how we trained
people to be citizens in the United States. So you know,
we have somewhere to go.

Speaker 4 (01:12:42):
In that area right now.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
And how that then plays into government and our unity
as a community is something that we have to really
get under control.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Well, I would agree with you. Gina has left me
about thirty seconds after the forty five to say that Gina,
she's telling you now, she's telling me to wrap it up.
This is KBLA Talk fifteen eighty our very special guest
on reflectivity with Gina the Towns is doctor Ted Williams.

(01:13:15):
Let me come forward our final segment Jesse Jackson Jane's
uking forward to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show on KBLA
Talk fifteen eighty where we are here Monday through Friday
from twelve to two pm PST, two to four pm CST,
and three to five pm eest. Gina, I want to

(01:13:36):
tell you what a wonderful week I enjoyed on the
program with Teresa hord Owens and of course at the
top of the hour, Eric Krim, I'm sorry, Ernest Krim, Yes,
Ernest Crim, My favorite millennial Barbara arn Wine on the
grind on Tuesdays, Wealthy Wednesdays with doctor Todd Yerie one

(01:13:57):
foot in the pulpit, one foot in the courtroom, and
with Johnny Mack the World House, trying to put all
of the pieces together of what's left. And of course
our first hour guests, and one of the outstanding first
hour guests was the personal testimony of Angie Coleman Scott,
who shared with us that she had lost her mother

(01:14:19):
and she walked us through her grief process in just
seventy two hours after losing her mother. She showed us
an incredible strength.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
You know, you know, and while you're at it, you know,
I want to really thank people, and if you can,
please go and download the podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
Reverend Willie Gable.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
He was something, wasn't it was something else?

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
And then a Tiva Maddien was on Wednesday, and of
course Angie Coleman Scott, as you just said, was on yesterday,
and of course Ted being in the last hour is
really just a phenomenal week. And I want to bring
attention to your show with Johnny Mack as well. But
I think he kind of alludes to this the issue

(01:15:02):
of pain, and Angie shared about grief, but the whole
pain is a larger scope.

Speaker 4 (01:15:10):
In which, you know, if you think about pain.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Pain motivates you to do something if you're feeling a
little too comfortable.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
It is the pain.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
From getting swatted on your behind as a child when
I said don't touch the hot stove and you want
to do it anyway, not only have you burned yourself,
but I have put some heat on your bottom. Joseph
was in pain as he went through what he went through,
you know, alluding back to your conversation with Ted, and
then of course in a famine, his brothers brought his

(01:15:40):
father to him because they were in pain. And so
pain is a great motivating factor. No discipline seems pleasant
at the time, but painful, but produces a harvest of
righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
So you know, how is it that we shall get
trained in this hour?

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Jenny? You know I was thinking about on this question
of training that when I listened to a Tiba Madien
this week and he came back on the program with
doctor Yeeri, that he really challenged us, right. He challenged
us to think outside the box. He challenged us to

(01:16:19):
understand that even though we may be losing things in
this era, that we're going to ultimately, at least my
take on it, is develop another muscle of resilience, and
that muscle of resilience will create new methods of coping,
new methods of dealing and thinking about the ways in

(01:16:39):
which the broader social edifice and structure is changing, that
there's nothing we can do about it, and that we
have to prepare ourselves for that adjustment. You call it pain, Yes,
that's exactly what it is. It's personal, it's communal, it's
broader than just being locked between the common kinds of

(01:17:00):
one's own two ears, but they're recognized that all of
us are going to be experiencing in some way, shape
or form, the same condition.

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
Absolutely, And so we talked about you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
I believe it was you and a TIVA that talked
about the trials and the battles that we've been through.
And what I find is that let's take the assassinations
of Malcolm Martin, John and Robert.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
And then you get into a new era where.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
You are not going to physically assassinate people, but you
want to assassinate their character because they seem to be
a political threat, or you put them in positions where
there's not equal justice for the same crime for one
person or another. You know, all of those things affect

(01:17:55):
how we as a community. And I think you know
we as a world house, as you know Johnny Mack
talks about it. I mean, I know that people see
some of the injustice that's done, and you can choose
a role of ponscious pilot and not say anything, but
it's still painful because I think at the core, people
do want to get along, and that's what you see
with gen X and General and gen Z.

Speaker 4 (01:18:17):
That's why I'm not willing to, you know, put blame
because they are really I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Remember my daughter told me, she says, Mom, We're just
gonna wait till everybody dies off, and then we'll all
live together in perfect harmony.

Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
She didn't say it exactly like that, but that's what she.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Meant, for people to get along and accept one another
and have some sort of equity and equality.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
You know, God bless your daughter for feeling that way.
I think my daughter, part of the same generation, feels
the same way, but in perfect candor. Doctor King recognized
that evil is a real force in the universe, and
so did doctor Todd Yeriy on the program. He said,
don't don't, don't, don't forget about evil in the universe.
He reminds me of the time that I was speaking

(01:18:59):
with doctor Cornell Westy said when he proof read one
of my books. He said, Jesse, this is a great book.
But don't forget the Cross. Now. You've got to come
back to the Cross at some point in time. You've
got to come back to the Cross because evil is real.
Evil is persistent. Waiting folks, waiting for folks to die
off does not change the fact that evil is organized,

(01:19:21):
and so there must be a counterbalance to the organizing
of evil, with the organizing of love, with the organizing
of good. It must be aggressive. It must be as
forceful and as nonviolent as we can possibly make it.
But it must counter evil with a positive force and
not just a kind of casual well which is gonna

(01:19:43):
let time handle it and hope that the universe itself
corrects itself. That's just not going to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
I am so glad that you said that, because that's
one of the notes that I took. I don't have
it here, but I may note of how many people
called it evil on our shows this week, how many
people are calling it evil in mainstream media for that matter.

(01:20:10):
You've never heard the word evil used as much as
you hear it right now. And I think that's a
very important point to bring forward, because that is exactly
what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Evil is organized. It is persistent. It does not sleep,
It does not yield. It tweets, it posts, it uploads,
it creates memes. Evil is on the news. Evil is persistent,
and so you know, you have to raise your voice.

(01:20:42):
I'm trying to struggle with I'm so angry sometimes that
I have to channel my anger into I'm gonna help.
I'm gonna rich some people to vote. I'm not gonna
take my anger and move it to voter registration. I mean,
what else do I do. I'm not gonna pick up
a shovel. I'm not gonna rob a store, or I'm
not going to hurt a police officer or a public servant.

(01:21:05):
I'm not going to go blow up a post office. No,
I'm going to go register somebody to vote because it
is what is available to me to address evil in
my time and space, which means, and this is the
difficult part. I have to come into contact with humanity.
I have to come into contact with someone who's uninspired.
I've got to come into contact with people. And I think, Gina,

(01:21:26):
that's one of the great challenges. Gina. We have about
three minutes to the top of our show and the
end of our week. Why don't you close us out
on a word of hope.

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
That's where we saw doctor King come to his conclusion.
It is, you know, the only thing that does conquer
evil love Trump's hate every time.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
And we are now in a.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
Situation where I think fear has come into the equation
because fear facilitates evil. It tries to thwart love. But
I will tell you that for the person who is
right next to you, the person that's in your community,
for the students who are in your school, for the

(01:22:41):
people who are in your church community, we can really
even work together on social media because sometimes we have
engaged and we still engage in really mean things online.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
And being more.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
Mindful about how people feel and how we can hurt
one another toward love is where we have to go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I'm Jesse Jackson Jr. You've been listening to Reflectivity with
our very special guest, Gina Towns. We can't thank doctor
Ted Williams enough. We're spending the better part of almost
two hours with us on this Friday. I also want
to take this opportunity to thank Angie Coleman Scott, whom
I know is still grieving, who is also the mother

(01:23:23):
of our chief engineer, Torrence Scott, and the grandmother of Jasmine,
who is filling in for Torrance today. We're so grateful
for you and your family. We're so grateful that you
guys have hung in there throughout this week and throughout
this period and shared your grief with our listening audience.
I'm Jesse Jackson Jr. This is KBLA Talk fifteen eighty.
You've been listening to the Jesse Jackson Junior Show until

(01:23:45):
next week. We'll see you then