May 2, 2025 • 53 mins
Pastor David Hegg joins Joe to discuss the whether or not Christianity is on the decline in the US and worldwide, WHY?
AND as always, we’ll be covering current events, including those weird news items that you may not have heard or read in the mainstream media accounts.
Be sure to tune in!
AND as always, we’ll be covering current events, including those weird news items that you may not have heard or read in the mainstream media accounts.
Be sure to tune in!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Do, not knowing what they do, not caring you mean
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It's the Joemasina Show.
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Show me.
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Welcome back to another session to sanity right here on
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get engaged, be part of the solution. It's the way
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And really it's if you get them. It isn't that hard, right,
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let's start off there. It really isn't that hard, and
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(02:03):
you know, I've heard from more and more young people recently.
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hard thought before you decide to spend tens of thousands
of dollars out a degree that may work for you.
They need that hard all right, Pestor David Hages gonna
join me after the break and we're gonna have some
(03:12):
We're gonna have some serious conversation around what's going on
in the Christian community. And we've seen it. And it's
not because we don't need it anymore, right, that's not
what's happening. Cultural Research Center put out a report recently
(03:34):
that Christianity is slowly shrinking in the US to well,
I'll say to the I don't want to see to
the benefit of but the benefit of other faiths switching
to other faiths. So, fifteen million Americans have joined no
faith segments in the last five years since the COVID pandemic.
(03:54):
They're called Nuns, now outnumbered Catholics for the ten percent
growth rate since twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
So.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
This report comes from doctor George Barner and the Cultural
Research Center at the Arizona Christian University. It reveals a
dramatic shift in an American spiritual landscape with a significant
decline and Christian affiliation. Non Christian faiths if you would.
The study found that Christian affiliation dropped from seventy two
(04:25):
percent in twenty twenty to sixty sixty six percent in
twenty twenty five. So it's a loss of roughly about
fifteen million adults. Fifteen million adults in the United States. Now,
non Christian faiths have surged, including Buddhism and grew fifty
six percent, Judaism grew twenty one percent, Islam grew by
(04:46):
twelve percent. So you know, again you looks at it though,
you look at these numbers and not just the numbers
are preval what's driving them away from the Christian faith? Right?
Is it? Is it because they feel like they're too rigid,
(05:08):
they don't believe in or they don't they don't really
understand and believe or what they're being taught. Right, they
no faith segment, those disassodiated, dissociated from any religious belief.
They rose from twenty percent to twenty three percent in
just five years. Sixty million adults say they no longer
(05:31):
believe in God. That grew about numbers. Catholics traditionally the
largest church related segment, with a ten percent growth over
the last half decade. Now you know again, I hear
so many these people when I talk with them, and
their mindset is, well, you know, how can I believe
in a god that would allow this, that would allow
(05:53):
that would allow this. And it's so hard because we've
raised this generation where it's not their responsibility. You know,
you joke about the Democrats being the party of non responsibility.
It's never their fault. They don't do anything wrong. So
of your parents out there, you've raised kids to believe
that they're the end all be all, that anything they
(06:15):
do is right and real and true, and they really
don't do anything wrong, so there's nothing just so there's
no reason to say you're sorry, there's no reason to
ask for forgiveness any of that. Let that think it.
Another concern is the rejection of absolute moral truth. This
is scary. Sixty six percent of US adults deny in
(06:40):
the existence of figure unchanged. Denying in is I can't
believe it all right, the denying the existence of absolute
moral truth. It's written terribly right, and this figure has
been unchanged since twenty two. Now, nonfish and faith groups,
(07:05):
their rejection of moral absolutely varies depending on the belief.
But when you think of almost if I average these out.
Almost seventy percent of the people don't believe it.
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Last night never happened, and I'm going to marry him
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I can't do that.
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Why not?
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I'm in love with you?
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Just thinking.
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In the way.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Would help. We're back, Joe Seni, your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. Eight five five Real
Joe eight five five seven three to two five five
six street. Get involved, get engaged, truly be part of
the solution. And I do appreciate the time you're spending
with us here on the air and in the chat
room and texting and tweeting, and no matter how did
you get involved in engauge. So at the beginning of
the hour, I was talking to you about what appears
(13:54):
to be I'm not an expert here, but but ware
what appears to be the sitting out of Christie in
me in his country. And I gave you ideas as
the why I think it is. I gave you ideas
as the why I think that you know some people,
I don't really know how many. I didn't do this
survey myself or the research myself, but why some people
(14:15):
looking at religions like you know, Buddhism or Islam, other
non Christian faith. So no fate, no faith at all
of that matter. But I'm not the expert. I'm not
in it every day. That's why I've asked Pastor David
Haigu to join me from Los Angeles County and Pastor
haig thanks for being with me.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Oh yeah, my place for Joe is always honored to
be here. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It is something you and I deal with to a degree.
I have people who constantly come up to me, why
do you believe what you believe? How can God? How
can you worship a God that really is is just
not involved, not engaged, not part of our lives. But
you read the report too. I sent that to you
as well.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Correct absolutely read it several times and have a part
of it in front of me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
All right, So give me eighty thousand foot overview first
and then we'll hit some of the numbers.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Well, you know, I mean, I look at that and
I suppose I should be very concerned, but I'm not.
I'm not because God knows his people. And what I've
seen over the course of my pastoral career is that
the whole nature of church has changed. It's become much
more of an entertainment platform. It's there are many pastors
(15:33):
who are known for telling people kind of what they
want to hear, and it's all about you know, you
can be a better, better servant, you can be a
better dad, you can be a better mom, you know
this kind of thing. And I'm not going to name names,
but I actually think that what the survey is finding
is that when it comes right down not to just
saying you're a Christian or having a label that you
(15:55):
think somehow God is your good luck charm, rather than that,
we really believe that when God stumps into a life,
when Holy Spirit comes to and dwell a person, there
is a characteristic transformation. Number one, there's humility. Number two,
there's a desire not to sin, to run away from
(16:17):
those things that appeal to the you know, the downside
of the human nature. And so what we find is
that there has become a Christianity that is actually, in
order to raise numbers and get people to come in,
they have allowed themselves to say, you know what, God
(16:37):
isn't all that interested in how you act. Just if you,
you know, just if you believe that the Bible is
very clear that, for instance, sex outside of marriage is wrong,
it's sinfle So when you find people who say I'm
a Christian and I run into this, when people come
in and want me to do their wedding. I say, well,
are you sexually active? Made look at each other like, well,
(16:59):
of course we are, you know, and I say, well,
I'm not going to do your wedding. In fact, I
don't even think you should be engaged until you're If
you're a christ follower, you got to ask yourself. Is
Jesus Christ the lord? If so, is the lord of
your sexual life? Is the lord of your financial life?
(17:19):
And I know that we all have a ways to go,
But what we find in America is that somebody can
be a Christian and not go to church, not read
their Bible, only pray when things are bad. But then
when things are bad, they're wondering, what happened to my God? Well,
you know, we see that. We saw it a few
(17:40):
weeks ago on Easter. We had over three thousand people
in our four services, and I'm glad because we gave
him a gospel. We talked about the resurrection being a
real thing. But you know, on a good day, we
have only about two thousand to come. So a thousand
other people came, largely be because they are cultural Christians,
(18:02):
so they feel like this is a good thing for
their family and so I think when you when you
have a good survey like the one that you have
given me and that we're reading and talking about. I
think when people are really honest, they don't see and
they're not ashamed of the fact that forty eight percent
of those who claim to be Christ followers don't believe
that the Bible is a source of absolute truth. Only
(18:24):
forty eight, I mean fifty two percent of those who
claim to love Jesus and are following Christ don't believe
that the Bible is true. Well, if you don't have
the Bible, you don't have Christianity.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I'm going to say, I mean, where did they find Christ?
What part of the Bible is true? All the part
that told them about Christ. I love those comments that
I get from people too as well. You go, then
where do you get your truth from? It comes to Jesus.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Yeah. You know, about twenty years ago, and I could
be off a little bit one way or the other,
there was a there's a new phenomenon with in America
called questing, and people basically said, I'm in a quest
to be spiritual, not to be you know, a follower
of Christ or a follower of Buddha or a follower
(19:13):
of Allah, I'm on a quest and what we found
was the surveys kept saying that people are taking it's
kind of like a smortgage board. They go into religion
desiring to be spiritual, and they grab some liturgy from
the Roman Catholic Church, they grab some spirit build stuff
from the Charismatic Church, they grab you know, some ritualistic
(19:35):
stuff from some of the others, and they kind of
kind of have a smortgage board and make their own plate.
And what we noticed then within the evangelical world, and
by for your listeners, the word evangelical comes from the
Greek word euangelion, which means gospel. So the evangelical world
originally was built around the fact that God works on
(19:57):
people's hearts through the God, not through the sacraments, not
through good works, not through the church. But the Gospel
is that which brings the Holy Spirit into our lives
and transforms us. And so what we saw was the
churches were saying, we're evangelical, but we need to reach
these people who are questing, and so they started shaving
(20:20):
the edges off of what the Bible teaches. For instance,
well one of the things it said, you know, you
hear a lot is love is love. God is love. Well,
if you go to the passage where it says God
is love, it's actually talking about the fact that his
nature is love, but his nature also is just and holy,
(20:42):
and all of God's attributes have attributes, so that it's
all his love. All his love is pure and good,
and it doesn't love that which is impure and evil.
So if you understand the Bible the way it was written,
then you say, okay, am I going to believe that
Jesus is Lord, relrded my life, delorded every part of me.
(21:03):
And if you find that you're a syndient Christ is
who you truly are, then that's going to create your community.
You're going to want to be with us people who
are following Christ. That's the church.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Need your deposit that We'll be back in a minute.
When you listen to the Jolman seeing the show, don't
go far a lot. We're coming up with Pastor Eig
in just a few minutes.
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Speaker 16 (23:43):
America's news update, I'm John Schaeffer. Last month's jobs report
exceeded expectations, with the Labor Department reporting one hundred and
seventy seven thousand new jobs added. The forecast had been
around one hundred and thirty thousand. While it beat expectations,
the number is lower than March's two hundre twenty eight thousand.
The unemployment rate remains steady at four point two percent.
(24:05):
Secretary of State Marco Rubio says a Russia Ukraine peace
deal remains possible but not imminent, noting the two sides
are closer but still far apart. Now also serving as
National Security Advisor, following Mike Waltz's departure, Rubio has taken
part in direct talks with Kremlin officials. President Trump will
host a military parade on June fourteenth to celebrate the
(24:26):
US Army's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. The event, which
also falls on Trump's birthday, will include active duty troops,
military academy students, historical reenactors, and equipment from several wars.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
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feel like we should be there by now. I'm just
taking a little detour. I gotta fill up my gas tank,
and I know this place a couple times over where
the gas is cheaper. Are you serious We're going to
be late for the concert because you're driving out of
the way for cheaper gases.
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(26:03):
We are back, Joe, miss and your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. Eight five five Real
Joe eight five five seventy three two five five sixt three. Listen,
get involved, get engaged, to be part of the solution,
and you know what, take notes or come back and
get it lady. You know we have a video cast
and podcasts, whatever you want to call it. You can
come back and get the show later if you've got
to go do something and you're enjoying what we're saying
(26:26):
Pastor David hag joins me from a Grace Baptist Church
in Los Angeles County. Always appreciate his time with me
as well. When we're talking about the recent research paper
from George Barner, doctor George Barner on where Christiy as
in this country and how many people are moving to
(26:46):
You know, Pastor, we want to call non non faith
faith a non Christian christ centered belief.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Yo. I would say, it's not the faith that the
Bible talks about. It's the faith that they have made
up with bits and pieces of what they've heard about
the Bible. And most people have never read the Bible.
Even those who go to church don't read the Bible.
And so when the fact says something you know that
they don't like, they go, I don't like that, well,
but it's in the Bible. And then they go to
(27:15):
somebody else say no, it's not in the Bible. So
I use this a lot. I say that a lot
of people are saying Jesus as a good luck charm.
They're gonna have enough, you know, confidence in him. They
like him, they like that he loves people, that he
heals people, that he beats out to the broken hearted,
and that he is not like the great ones of
(27:35):
his day who didn't have time for the little ones.
He was a guy who went in and healed the
lame and the blind, and he's good teach us some
really good stuff. But they don't take the stuff that
he says in that day. At the end, many will
say to me, Lord, didn't we cast out demons in
(27:55):
your name? Didn't we prophisy in your name? Didn't we
do many good works in your name? And he's going
to say, depart from me, I never knew you. He says,
only those who do the will of my Father are
going to enter the Kingdom of val That means that
obedience is actually the greatest sign that God has changed
our lives. He's given us a new heart, He's given
(28:17):
us a new mind, He's given us a new conscience.
And so those who loved who really understand that Jesus
died to not only take away our sin, but take
away our delight in sin. And then we say, okay,
is obeying him the very best option I have. So
I define saving faith not just faith that this bridge
(28:41):
is going to hold me when my cargoes over it,
but faith is a light dominating conviction that what God
has for me through obedience is always better for me
than anything else.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
We don't want to do. It's better for us. You know,
Mom and Dad tell you forget that you cannot have
how much on different dinner every night. You've got to
have your vegetables. You got to have your food. They
don't want to do that. They push away, and I'm
gonna I told you during the break one of the
things I would say in earlier was we've raised a
whole generation that it is kind of a feel good moment,
(29:16):
right If you don't feel good about it, then it
can't be good and it can't be true for you.
And when you have within the Christian groups alone, in
mainstream Protestants there, what is it, sixty one to sixty
nine percent reject absolute truth? Just to me is concerning,
very concerning.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Well, you know, in the academic world, there's a guy
named Carl Truman who wrote a book called The Rising
Triumph of the Modern Self. And the modern self is
not a self that sees some transcended being, whether it's
Pagan or the you know, the religions Islam, Christianity, Judaism.
We used to see ourselves as beholden to a trans
(30:00):
God outside of ourselves. Even the Pagans, you know, they
sacrificed this and that, and then you know the monolithic
religions of Judaism and Islam and Christianity, even though saw
God as outside of themselves. Well, Truman makes the huge
point that we now had made God of ourselves, with
(30:22):
the modern selves as I get to decide what's true.
I was in a debate the other day on abortion,
and there was a politician of a particular party who
was asked by a high school senior in the audience,
is you know what is the embryo? Is it a baby?
Is it human? And he said, you can believe what
(30:43):
you want to believe, and I believe that it's not,
and you can believe that it is. That's what America
is about. And she fired back, this high school senior,
little blonde girl named Ella. She fired back into says,
I'm not comfortable with feelings determining truth. So she said
it's two plus two? Is it four? Or is it six?
(31:04):
And he didn't know what to do. And basically what
happens is he pulled the curtain from the Great Oz
and he was suddenly seen to be an idiot. And
so this is where we're at though. This is where
truth has become so relative. This is why those of
us who preach the Bible the way it was written.
(31:25):
I'm currently in the Book of Matthew, and Jesus is
saying some amazing things. Blessed are the pure in heart,
Blessed are the merciful, forgive your brother seventy times seven.
I mean, there's this counterculture stuff, so I you know,
this survey quite frankly doesn't bother me. It bothers me
a little bit on the ethical side that people who
(31:48):
at least have some sense of the Judeo Christian epic
are more likely to not steal, to not kill, to
not you know, those kinds of things. But when it
comes to really counting somebody as a christ follower, you
notice I don't use the word Christian because that has
become so stretched no part knows what it is. But
Jesus said after me, you got to deny yourself. That is,
(32:11):
look at yourself and say I can't fix myself. I
am broken, sin and all this, and I'm going to
deny it that I can fix myself. I'm going to
pick up the cross and I'm going to follow Jesus.
So that's what I call a Christ follower. That's what
we should be looking at.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I totally agree with you, I think in you and
I've discussed this privately before. I think there's a lot
of issues to your point earlier. There's a lot of
issues in the pulpit around the planet, but mostly in
this country where they're not really teaching the unadulterated Word
of God, where they're trying to stay away. They don't
(32:50):
use as much scripture as some and they just want
to kind of keep the congregation and I won't say happy,
but complacent, so they stay because their attitude. Look, they
won't hear the Word if they're not here. But if
they're not hearing that the pure word of God, they
might as well not be here.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Yeah, and I would tell you that the survey is
not damning about the country. It's very damning about the preachers,
because somehow we have a bunch of churches that are
allowing people to feel really good about themselves in their
relationship with God without actually being followers of Jesus. I mean,
(33:28):
their lives don't demonstrate that He is Lord. Last night
I was asked to go to the classical high school
here in town and hear the final orations of their
senior thesis class. And I happen to be one of
the young men's thesis advisor. And his whole thesis was
(33:49):
that expositional sermons, that is, sermons that go through the
text of the Bible and teach it the way the
original author meant it to be taught that those of sermon,
that kind of preaching systematically is much much better for
the people than the topical sermon. And he used as
the example, I'm going to preach on being a good dad.
(34:10):
And then a topical sermon is one where the preacher says,
this is my theme, and then he goes in search
of a bunch of little verses around the Bible, many
of which are taken out of context, to try and
prove his point. And he did this amazing ten minute
speech from memory, and it was absolutely a brilliant thesis.
(34:31):
But again, this survey shows that a lot of people
who call themselves Christians are not sitting under the word
of God and not allowing the spirit of God to
do the word of God, to do the work of
God in the people's.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
God oh, and again to a big degree, I do
agree with you, and I look at what's being taught,
what people are coming out with conversations. I'm havvy with people,
you know. One of my other little itches is the denominations.
You know, and I've said to you before, I don't
think Jesus set up denominations, and denominations have made the divide.
(35:07):
They're not made to pull people together. And some of
these denominations out there have very small differences, not major
enough to be to be separating us, you know, and
actually talks about being at one place on one accord.
We don't seem to be there as a church as
a whole.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yeah, I know. That really bothers me as well. Here
in Santa Karita, I put together a little pastoral fraternal
there's seven of us and all the other guys are
in kind of smaller churches. The reason I put it
together is because they don't have a staff like I do.
They don't have pastoral camaraderie like I do. And you know,
we get together and we're different. We have some different
(35:50):
views on things, but when it comes to the fundamentals,
who is God, who is Jesus, Who's the Holy Spirit,
what is salvation? What's the gospel? What is ben is Hell?
All of those things we greet right down the line.
So when we get together we can for each other.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
And here I heard in that I just had this conversation.
I know the answer to this that I know you
do too. We'll talk about it when we come back.
Conversation about Hell, even among Christians is quite interesting. Yeah,
job a senior house, don't go for our people. A
lot more coming up right after the break you're listening to.
The jobis.
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Speaker 5 (41:38):
It has been established the persons who have recently.
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Died have been returning to life and committing acts of murder.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Do you know this?
Speaker 6 (41:46):
Man? Go ahead, make my day.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
We are back. Joe Massin to your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. A five five real
Joe five five seven three to two five five six.
We get involved, getting gauge, be part of the solution.
Always appreciate the time you're spending with me, and you
can find us at Joe Massina dot com Joe Massina
dot com. Wee can watch Liveless of Life, get involved
in the conversation in the chat room. Just a lot
of good things going on. I've got Pastor David Hag
(42:27):
on the line with me and we're well, I'm talking
about him, and we're looking at what appears to be
a decline among Christians in this country to non Christian
or no faith whatsoever. I don't even want to call it.
I can't even call it a belief system. I guess
if you have no faith, that's a belief system. Anyway.
(42:48):
That's the Hey, thanks for being with me.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
Yeah, you know what I think the survey shows is
that people are finally being honest.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Maybe that's a good pob I'm.
Speaker 5 (42:58):
I'm a mixed Christian. I'm not really, It's not really
a huge thing in my life to know the Bible,
to know what Jesus even teaches. Consequently, I can kind
of make up my own soup of Christianity. I can say, well,
this is what I want Jesus to be, and this
is what someone has told me he can be. And
so I'm coming up with a religion that I can
(43:20):
It doesn't make any demands on me. I can live
anyway I want to and still feel like Jesus is
my life coach and he's my advocate, and he just
loves everybody no matter what. And then at some point
they're gonna look and they're gonna say, wait a minute,
I was wrong, and I'm going to pay the consequences,
both in this life and the next.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, I kind of fall down the line of barn
to two degree that you grew up with a lack
of strict boundaries and it makes it hard to determine
the truth. He goes on to say, when two of
three adults believe the truth is conditional, so there's no absolutes.
So if you grew up with no absalutes, then how
do I know that Jesus is God. How do I
(44:01):
know that Jesus? How do I know the writings of
the Bible are the.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
What's what's happened in our society? I mean I hate
to be not hate. I actually love it bringing up stuff.
We have Supreme Court justice who doesn't know what a
woman is. We have a whole bunch of people in
our in our in our country who cannot say that
when an egg and a sperm, meat, and there's an embryo,
they can't say it's human. Well as I like to
(44:28):
tell people, what is it? Is it famine? Is it? Oh?
What is it? It's human? And so we have fun
into science and you know, you and I have eight
hundred billion cells Joe, and each of them as a
male marker. And so during COVID we're said, follow all
the science, fall the science. But when it comes to
(44:48):
determining what a woman is and determining what a human is,
so in a in a society where a man can
marry a man and a woman can marry a woman,
and now transgenderism, and now you've got people who the
government are paying for transgender surgeries and all that. In
(45:09):
that environment, what you're basically saying to the kids who
are growing up, Look, there is no truth. You can
change whatever you want. So it's no, it doesn't surprise
me that someone would try Jesus for a little while,
try the church for a little while, and then find
out that, you know, I can, I can bend some
of the rules of the Bible to fit my temperament,
(45:32):
to sent my lifestyle. And they come up with this, Yeah,
there's no absolute truth, not even the Bible. But I
think you know, I'm going to try Jesus enough to
him to me my life.
Speaker 6 (45:41):
Coach.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
We live in a society where truth is up for
grabs in all kinds of arenas. Oh, yeah, I hope
that's no.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
No, you're you're exactly right on. I mean, truth is
based on feeling. You know, what do you feel that
it is? What do you think you is? And and well,
my feeling is different than yours, So does it make him?
I love that term my truth. There's no such thing
as my truth. There is what I believe. But truth
is truth, And it doesn't matter what you feel, doesn't
(46:12):
matter what tradition you have, it doesn't matter what peer
pressures you're going through. Truth is truth, period.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
Well, there's there's what we call absolute truth. Two plus
two is four, Okay. Then there's what we call reasonable truth.
If you cross the freeway in the middle of Russia,
there's a good chance you're going to get hit. That's true. Now,
it might not happen every time, but still I would
call that kind of reasonable truth called wisdom. And so
(46:42):
if you don't have absolute truth, you're really going to
see a dirth, a famine in erosion in what we
call wisdom, because if you can turn something that is
factually absolutely true into something that isn't always true, wisdom
goes out the window. Yep. Like when a woman judge says,
(47:04):
I don't know what a woman is and we want
her way in on some of the weighty matters of
lawe and she doesn't even know what it wants I mean,
And then we laugh at it and Saturday Night Live
makes skits about it. But what we don't understand is
how this is eroding the actual mind and soul of
(47:25):
our country.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Now.
Speaker 5 (47:27):
I think there are some good things happening in and
around government today, but men the the backlash against it.
I've come to the place where I realize that if
you're in opposition. You have to use terrible language, you
have to use bad language, you have to cut to scream.
(47:49):
I'm just going whatever happened to virtue and self control?
Oh wait a minute, those are biblical values, Those are
fruits of the spirit.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
So as I should have a right to express myself,
I should have a right. You know, if you aggravate me,
for me be able to yell at you to put
you in your place. Right, that's all I have a
freedom to do.
Speaker 5 (48:10):
Yeah. What's interesting is that you won't find an attorney
doing his closing arguments believing that he has a right
to call the jury whatever he wants to because he's
trying to convince them of something. He's trying to relationship
with them. And when I see politicians and athletes and
just regular old people on the street just going out
(48:33):
of their way to alienate people, I just have to
ask myself, man, what have we become? And I know
the answer. We've left God behind. When God we trust,
do we say the One Nation under God? Most people don't.
And then our previous president on Resurrection Sunday decided to
make it transgender Sunday. I mean that just tells you
(48:56):
where we are I was very thankful to Susident Trump
doing what he did this year.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, it's really you know, and I you both you
and I both know some of the naysayers who will say, no,
he doesn't really believe, he doesn't this. I said, you know,
at this point, I don't care anymore. The mere fact
that God and you know, the God of the Bible,
Jesus are being prayed to and inside the White House
to me is a massive deal, a massive shift in
(49:22):
a mindset. And I think the reason we're going through
everything we're going with these lawless judges is because of
the pushback of the enemy over this seeing what's happening.
That's my personal opinion.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Yeah, and then there were one hundred and seventy thousand
jobs made. Yeah, and behind that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
No, I'm you know what it's like everything else, you know.
I tried to explain this to somebody the other day
that I said, when you first come to Christ, you
have a life behind you that is still lingering in
your DNA, if you would, right lingering around you. And
there's a perceived pain as you give those things up,
as you move away from them, as you stop practicing
(50:05):
those things. Well, I think we have the same thing
going on.
Speaker 5 (50:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We've lived fat, dumb, and happy to a degree. Right,
we have all these that now we're cutting these things,
and there's some pain involved in it, and there will
be some pain until they flatten out. And I think
you need to write it out, don't you think?
Speaker 3 (50:22):
You know?
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Yeah, I agree, And I'm just thinking about the fact
that God created everyone in the image of God, and
there's a God shaped vacuum. I mean, you think about movies.
We all want movies to have a happy ending. We
all loan something that's better than what we have now,
we just find the wrong road to get there. I mean,
(50:45):
you talk to somebody who's on drugs or alcohol or
anything else that, in some way is something from outside
of them that they think is going to make the
inside of them better. Eventually, it doesn't. I mean, it
just doesn't. Joy is found not by finding something outside
of me. It's by letting God inside of me, so
(51:06):
the spirit of God dwells within me and transforms me
and changes me so that I see gentleness and goodness
and purity and righteousness and hard work and all those
things as a value rather than something that can be
poop pood in order to follow the way that I
want to live. You know, when Adam decided he'd be
(51:27):
in charge of his life, it didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, yeah, all right, you've got about a minute and
a half, which I know is a dangerous amount of
time for a pastor of the microphone, but go ahead
and give go ahead and give your message to those
young people or who might be listening, and say, you
know what, there was an absolute truth.
Speaker 5 (51:49):
Yeah. I think the question that I would ask everybody
is why is there something rather than nothing? We all
know that every effect had a cause. And even Aristotle
k news that if you go back and say, okay,
what caused this tree, well it was the seed, what
caused the seed? Another tree? What caused that tree? And
you know, you go back and you keep going back
(52:09):
and back and back into it. Finally, Aristotle said you
had to find the unmoved mover, the uncaused cause. If
you don't have something that started it all that was
itself not caused in others, something that was eternal. If
you don't have that, you don't have anything. And the
fact that we have something means that somewhere in time
(52:33):
past there was an uncaused cause. And then when you
ask yourself, okay, what kind of cause was it? You
will look at what it caused, look at the complexity
of our world, of the eye, of the body, of
the trees, of the weather, of the solar, look at
the complexity at whatever caused it must have been intelligent.
(52:58):
And then you say, wait a minute, you know what
else there is in this world? There's a moral foundation. See,
little baby knows that when you take a battle away,
if they don't like it, you're a number one knows
from your grandmother. Good cause build us and we deserve
to live.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
We want to I gotta cut I gotta cut you off.
I'll tell people where they can find your blog, and
God bless for what you do, and we'll have you
back on soon. Do Jova say to your host, don't
go for our people. A lot more coming up in
the next hour.
Speaker 16 (53:43):
America's News Update. I'm John Schaeffer. Last month's jobs report
Please to have following apart, you're compts to to be
(00:02):
an accosted the street because I have socialists you elected
as your mayor.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You see them sometimes walking around blindly with dead eyes,
following orders.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
When are you New Yorkers gonna start holding those people
responsible for what they.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Do, not knowing what they do, not caring you mean
like democrats.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm gonna deal with topics and issues that will make
you think, make you mad, maybe even get you a
little embarrassed. So don't go anywhere. The lines are open.
You can reach me at eight five to five Real
Joe eight five five seven three two five five six three.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
It's the Joemasina Show.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Show me.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Welcome back to another session to sanity right here on
the Joe maas the Other Show. Always a pleasure to
have you with me. Eight five five Real Joe eight
five seven three to two five five six three. Get about,
get engaged, be part of the solution. It's the way
we win. Yeah, you heard me, It's the way we win.
And really it's if you get them. It isn't that hard, right,
(01:13):
let's start off there. It really isn't that hard, and
I know it feels that way. Sometimes I know, you
know that that that you feel like there's there's no
way out right, there's no way to make things better,
But there is. You can't give up. I'm going down
(01:36):
the shut a little bit for a minute because I
I'm watching some of the things that have been written,
and I'm thinking to myself, is if we raise a
group of people, group of young'uns that really don't don't understand,
you know, they don't understand it. You don't slide into
this right, you gotta work for it. And I don't know,
(02:03):
you know, I've heard from more and more young people recently.
I've heard from more and more of them how they
don't understand. You know, they went to college, they spent
all that money, and now what they can't get a job,
or they get a job and it's minimum wage. So
(02:28):
I don't know who they bought into the education world
that said, hey, look, go to school, get it, you know,
get a degree and life will be good. And guess
what it wasn't really was that simple for a lot
of them. They're still struggling for work, they're still struggling
(02:49):
in their jobs. Give it a hard thought before you
decide to go to these things we give it a
hard thought before you decide to spend tens of thousands
of dollars out a degree that may work for you.
They need that hard all right, Pestor David Hages gonna
join me after the break and we're gonna have some
(03:12):
We're gonna have some serious conversation around what's going on
in the Christian community. And we've seen it. And it's
not because we don't need it anymore, right, that's not
what's happening. Cultural Research Center put out a report recently
(03:34):
that Christianity is slowly shrinking in the US to well,
I'll say to the I don't want to see to
the benefit of but the benefit of other faiths switching
to other faiths. So, fifteen million Americans have joined no
faith segments in the last five years since the COVID pandemic.
(03:54):
They're called Nuns, now outnumbered Catholics for the ten percent
growth rate since twenty twenty.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
So.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
This report comes from doctor George Barner and the Cultural
Research Center at the Arizona Christian University. It reveals a
dramatic shift in an American spiritual landscape with a significant
decline and Christian affiliation. Non Christian faiths if you would.
The study found that Christian affiliation dropped from seventy two
(04:25):
percent in twenty twenty to sixty sixty six percent in
twenty twenty five. So it's a loss of roughly about
fifteen million adults. Fifteen million adults in the United States. Now,
non Christian faiths have surged, including Buddhism and grew fifty
six percent, Judaism grew twenty one percent, Islam grew by
(04:46):
twelve percent. So you know, again you looks at it though,
you look at these numbers and not just the numbers
are preval what's driving them away from the Christian faith? Right?
Is it? Is it because they feel like they're too rigid,
(05:08):
they don't believe in or they don't they don't really
understand and believe or what they're being taught. Right, they
no faith segment, those disassodiated, dissociated from any religious belief.
They rose from twenty percent to twenty three percent in
just five years. Sixty million adults say they no longer
(05:31):
believe in God. That grew about numbers. Catholics traditionally the
largest church related segment, with a ten percent growth over
the last half decade. Now you know again, I hear
so many these people when I talk with them, and
their mindset is, well, you know, how can I believe
in a god that would allow this, that would allow
(05:53):
that would allow this. And it's so hard because we've
raised this generation where it's not their responsibility. You know,
you joke about the Democrats being the party of non responsibility.
It's never their fault. They don't do anything wrong. So
of your parents out there, you've raised kids to believe
that they're the end all be all, that anything they
(06:15):
do is right and real and true, and they really
don't do anything wrong, so there's nothing just so there's
no reason to say you're sorry, there's no reason to
ask for forgiveness any of that. Let that think it.
Another concern is the rejection of absolute moral truth. This
is scary. Sixty six percent of US adults deny in
(06:40):
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(07:05):
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Almost seventy percent of the people don't believe it.
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Last night never happened, and I'm going to marry him
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Speaker 13 (12:43):
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Speaker 6 (12:44):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I'm in love with you?
Speaker 5 (12:47):
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In the way.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Would help. We're back, Joe Seni, your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. Eight five five Real
Joe eight five five seven three to two five five
six street. Get involved, get engaged, truly be part of
the solution. And I do appreciate the time you're spending
with us here on the air and in the chat
room and texting and tweeting, and no matter how did
you get involved in engauge. So at the beginning of
the hour, I was talking to you about what appears
(13:54):
to be I'm not an expert here, but but ware
what appears to be the sitting out of Christie in
me in his country. And I gave you ideas as
the why I think it is. I gave you ideas
as the why I think that you know some people,
I don't really know how many. I didn't do this
survey myself or the research myself, but why some people
(14:15):
looking at religions like you know, Buddhism or Islam, other
non Christian faith. So no fate, no faith at all
of that matter. But I'm not the expert. I'm not
in it every day. That's why I've asked Pastor David
Haigu to join me from Los Angeles County and Pastor
haig thanks for being with me.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
Oh yeah, my place for Joe is always honored to
be here. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It is something you and I deal with to a degree.
I have people who constantly come up to me, why
do you believe what you believe? How can God? How
can you worship a God that really is is just
not involved, not engaged, not part of our lives. But
you read the report too. I sent that to you
as well.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
Correct absolutely read it several times and have a part
of it in front of me.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
All right, So give me eighty thousand foot overview first
and then we'll hit some of the numbers.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Well, you know, I mean, I look at that and
I suppose I should be very concerned, but I'm not.
I'm not because God knows his people. And what I've
seen over the course of my pastoral career is that
the whole nature of church has changed. It's become much
more of an entertainment platform. It's there are many pastors
(15:33):
who are known for telling people kind of what they
want to hear, and it's all about you know, you
can be a better, better servant, you can be a
better dad, you can be a better mom, you know
this kind of thing. And I'm not going to name names,
but I actually think that what the survey is finding
is that when it comes right down not to just
saying you're a Christian or having a label that you
(15:55):
think somehow God is your good luck charm, rather than that,
we really believe that when God stumps into a life,
when Holy Spirit comes to and dwell a person, there
is a characteristic transformation. Number one, there's humility. Number two,
there's a desire not to sin, to run away from
(16:17):
those things that appeal to the you know, the downside
of the human nature. And so what we find is
that there has become a Christianity that is actually, in
order to raise numbers and get people to come in,
they have allowed themselves to say, you know what, God
(16:37):
isn't all that interested in how you act. Just if you,
you know, just if you believe that the Bible is
very clear that, for instance, sex outside of marriage is wrong,
it's sinfle So when you find people who say I'm
a Christian and I run into this, when people come
in and want me to do their wedding. I say, well,
are you sexually active? Made look at each other like, well,
(16:59):
of course we are, you know, and I say, well,
I'm not going to do your wedding. In fact, I
don't even think you should be engaged until you're If
you're a christ follower, you got to ask yourself. Is
Jesus Christ the lord? If so, is the lord of
your sexual life? Is the lord of your financial life?
(17:19):
And I know that we all have a ways to go,
But what we find in America is that somebody can
be a Christian and not go to church, not read
their Bible, only pray when things are bad. But then
when things are bad, they're wondering, what happened to my God? Well,
you know, we see that. We saw it a few
(17:40):
weeks ago on Easter. We had over three thousand people
in our four services, and I'm glad because we gave
him a gospel. We talked about the resurrection being a
real thing. But you know, on a good day, we
have only about two thousand to come. So a thousand
other people came, largely be because they are cultural Christians,
(18:02):
so they feel like this is a good thing for
their family and so I think when you when you
have a good survey like the one that you have
given me and that we're reading and talking about. I
think when people are really honest, they don't see and
they're not ashamed of the fact that forty eight percent
of those who claim to be Christ followers don't believe
that the Bible is a source of absolute truth. Only
(18:24):
forty eight, I mean fifty two percent of those who
claim to love Jesus and are following Christ don't believe
that the Bible is true. Well, if you don't have
the Bible, you don't have Christianity.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I'm going to say, I mean, where did they find Christ?
What part of the Bible is true? All the part
that told them about Christ. I love those comments that
I get from people too as well. You go, then
where do you get your truth from? It comes to Jesus.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Yeah. You know, about twenty years ago, and I could
be off a little bit one way or the other,
there was a there's a new phenomenon with in America
called questing, and people basically said, I'm in a quest
to be spiritual, not to be you know, a follower
of Christ or a follower of Buddha or a follower
(19:13):
of Allah, I'm on a quest and what we found
was the surveys kept saying that people are taking it's
kind of like a smortgage board. They go into religion
desiring to be spiritual, and they grab some liturgy from
the Roman Catholic Church, they grab some spirit build stuff
from the Charismatic Church, they grab you know, some ritualistic
(19:35):
stuff from some of the others, and they kind of
kind of have a smortgage board and make their own plate.
And what we noticed then within the evangelical world, and
by for your listeners, the word evangelical comes from the
Greek word euangelion, which means gospel. So the evangelical world
originally was built around the fact that God works on
(19:57):
people's hearts through the God, not through the sacraments, not
through good works, not through the church. But the Gospel
is that which brings the Holy Spirit into our lives
and transforms us. And so what we saw was the
churches were saying, we're evangelical, but we need to reach
these people who are questing, and so they started shaving
(20:20):
the edges off of what the Bible teaches. For instance,
well one of the things it said, you know, you
hear a lot is love is love. God is love. Well,
if you go to the passage where it says God
is love, it's actually talking about the fact that his
nature is love, but his nature also is just and holy,
(20:42):
and all of God's attributes have attributes, so that it's
all his love. All his love is pure and good,
and it doesn't love that which is impure and evil.
So if you understand the Bible the way it was written,
then you say, okay, am I going to believe that
Jesus is Lord, relrded my life, delorded every part of me.
(21:03):
And if you find that you're a syndient Christ is
who you truly are, then that's going to create your community.
You're going to want to be with us people who
are following Christ. That's the church.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Need your deposit that We'll be back in a minute.
When you listen to the Jolman seeing the show, don't
go far a lot. We're coming up with Pastor Eig
in just a few minutes.
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Speaker 16 (23:43):
America's news update, I'm John Schaeffer. Last month's jobs report
exceeded expectations, with the Labor Department reporting one hundred and
seventy seven thousand new jobs added. The forecast had been
around one hundred and thirty thousand. While it beat expectations,
the number is lower than March's two hundre twenty eight thousand.
The unemployment rate remains steady at four point two percent.
(24:05):
Secretary of State Marco Rubio says a Russia Ukraine peace
deal remains possible but not imminent, noting the two sides
are closer but still far apart. Now also serving as
National Security Advisor, following Mike Waltz's departure, Rubio has taken
part in direct talks with Kremlin officials. President Trump will
host a military parade on June fourteenth to celebrate the
(24:26):
US Army's two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. The event, which
also falls on Trump's birthday, will include active duty troops,
military academy students, historical reenactors, and equipment from several wars.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
We're definitely going to be late to the concert. I
feel like we should be there by now. I'm just
taking a little detour. I gotta fill up my gas tank,
and I know this place a couple times over where
the gas is cheaper. Are you serious We're going to
be late for the concert because you're driving out of
the way for cheaper gases.
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Speaker 9 (25:38):
You know, you two guys have everything. You're tall and
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Speaker 1 (25:43):
And that's just the kind of a guy like grave.
(26:03):
We are back, Joe, miss and your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. Eight five five Real
Joe eight five five seventy three two five five sixt three. Listen,
get involved, get engaged, to be part of the solution,
and you know what, take notes or come back and
get it lady. You know we have a video cast
and podcasts, whatever you want to call it. You can
come back and get the show later if you've got
to go do something and you're enjoying what we're saying
(26:26):
Pastor David hag joins me from a Grace Baptist Church
in Los Angeles County. Always appreciate his time with me
as well. When we're talking about the recent research paper
from George Barner, doctor George Barner on where Christiy as
in this country and how many people are moving to
(26:46):
You know, Pastor, we want to call non non faith
faith a non Christian christ centered belief.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Yo. I would say, it's not the faith that the
Bible talks about. It's the faith that they have made
up with bits and pieces of what they've heard about
the Bible. And most people have never read the Bible.
Even those who go to church don't read the Bible.
And so when the fact says something you know that
they don't like, they go, I don't like that, well,
but it's in the Bible. And then they go to
(27:15):
somebody else say no, it's not in the Bible. So
I use this a lot. I say that a lot
of people are saying Jesus as a good luck charm.
They're gonna have enough, you know, confidence in him. They
like him, they like that he loves people, that he
heals people, that he beats out to the broken hearted,
and that he is not like the great ones of
(27:35):
his day who didn't have time for the little ones.
He was a guy who went in and healed the
lame and the blind, and he's good teach us some
really good stuff. But they don't take the stuff that
he says in that day. At the end, many will
say to me, Lord, didn't we cast out demons in
(27:55):
your name? Didn't we prophisy in your name? Didn't we
do many good works in your name? And he's going
to say, depart from me, I never knew you. He says,
only those who do the will of my Father are
going to enter the Kingdom of val That means that
obedience is actually the greatest sign that God has changed
our lives. He's given us a new heart, He's given
(28:17):
us a new mind, He's given us a new conscience.
And so those who loved who really understand that Jesus
died to not only take away our sin, but take
away our delight in sin. And then we say, okay,
is obeying him the very best option I have. So
I define saving faith not just faith that this bridge
(28:41):
is going to hold me when my cargoes over it,
but faith is a light dominating conviction that what God
has for me through obedience is always better for me
than anything else.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
We don't want to do. It's better for us. You know,
Mom and Dad tell you forget that you cannot have
how much on different dinner every night. You've got to
have your vegetables. You got to have your food. They
don't want to do that. They push away, and I'm
gonna I told you during the break one of the
things I would say in earlier was we've raised a
whole generation that it is kind of a feel good moment,
(29:16):
right If you don't feel good about it, then it
can't be good and it can't be true for you.
And when you have within the Christian groups alone, in
mainstream Protestants there, what is it, sixty one to sixty
nine percent reject absolute truth? Just to me is concerning,
very concerning.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Well, you know, in the academic world, there's a guy
named Carl Truman who wrote a book called The Rising
Triumph of the Modern Self. And the modern self is
not a self that sees some transcended being, whether it's
Pagan or the you know, the religions Islam, Christianity, Judaism.
We used to see ourselves as beholden to a trans
(30:00):
God outside of ourselves. Even the Pagans, you know, they
sacrificed this and that, and then you know the monolithic
religions of Judaism and Islam and Christianity, even though saw
God as outside of themselves. Well, Truman makes the huge
point that we now had made God of ourselves, with
(30:22):
the modern selves as I get to decide what's true.
I was in a debate the other day on abortion,
and there was a politician of a particular party who
was asked by a high school senior in the audience,
is you know what is the embryo? Is it a baby?
Is it human? And he said, you can believe what
(30:43):
you want to believe, and I believe that it's not,
and you can believe that it is. That's what America
is about. And she fired back, this high school senior,
little blonde girl named Ella. She fired back into says,
I'm not comfortable with feelings determining truth. So she said
it's two plus two? Is it four? Or is it six?
(31:04):
And he didn't know what to do. And basically what
happens is he pulled the curtain from the Great Oz
and he was suddenly seen to be an idiot. And
so this is where we're at though. This is where
truth has become so relative. This is why those of
us who preach the Bible the way it was written.
(31:25):
I'm currently in the Book of Matthew, and Jesus is
saying some amazing things. Blessed are the pure in heart,
Blessed are the merciful, forgive your brother seventy times seven.
I mean, there's this counterculture stuff, so I you know,
this survey quite frankly doesn't bother me. It bothers me
a little bit on the ethical side that people who
(31:48):
at least have some sense of the Judeo Christian epic
are more likely to not steal, to not kill, to
not you know, those kinds of things. But when it
comes to really counting somebody as a christ follower, you
notice I don't use the word Christian because that has
become so stretched no part knows what it is. But
Jesus said after me, you got to deny yourself. That is,
(32:11):
look at yourself and say I can't fix myself. I
am broken, sin and all this, and I'm going to
deny it that I can fix myself. I'm going to
pick up the cross and I'm going to follow Jesus.
So that's what I call a Christ follower. That's what
we should be looking at.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I totally agree with you, I think in you and
I've discussed this privately before. I think there's a lot
of issues to your point earlier. There's a lot of
issues in the pulpit around the planet, but mostly in
this country where they're not really teaching the unadulterated Word
of God, where they're trying to stay away. They don't
(32:50):
use as much scripture as some and they just want
to kind of keep the congregation and I won't say happy,
but complacent, so they stay because their attitude. Look, they
won't hear the Word if they're not here. But if
they're not hearing that the pure word of God, they
might as well not be here.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Yeah, and I would tell you that the survey is
not damning about the country. It's very damning about the preachers,
because somehow we have a bunch of churches that are
allowing people to feel really good about themselves in their
relationship with God without actually being followers of Jesus. I mean,
(33:28):
their lives don't demonstrate that He is Lord. Last night
I was asked to go to the classical high school
here in town and hear the final orations of their
senior thesis class. And I happen to be one of
the young men's thesis advisor. And his whole thesis was
(33:49):
that expositional sermons, that is, sermons that go through the
text of the Bible and teach it the way the
original author meant it to be taught that those of sermon,
that kind of preaching systematically is much much better for
the people than the topical sermon. And he used as
the example, I'm going to preach on being a good dad.
(34:10):
And then a topical sermon is one where the preacher says,
this is my theme, and then he goes in search
of a bunch of little verses around the Bible, many
of which are taken out of context, to try and
prove his point. And he did this amazing ten minute
speech from memory, and it was absolutely a brilliant thesis.
(34:31):
But again, this survey shows that a lot of people
who call themselves Christians are not sitting under the word
of God and not allowing the spirit of God to
do the word of God, to do the work of
God in the people's.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
God oh, and again to a big degree, I do
agree with you, and I look at what's being taught,
what people are coming out with conversations. I'm havvy with people,
you know. One of my other little itches is the denominations.
You know, and I've said to you before, I don't
think Jesus set up denominations, and denominations have made the divide.
(35:07):
They're not made to pull people together. And some of
these denominations out there have very small differences, not major
enough to be to be separating us, you know, and
actually talks about being at one place on one accord.
We don't seem to be there as a church as
a whole.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yeah, I know. That really bothers me as well. Here
in Santa Karita, I put together a little pastoral fraternal
there's seven of us and all the other guys are
in kind of smaller churches. The reason I put it
together is because they don't have a staff like I do.
They don't have pastoral camaraderie like I do. And you know,
we get together and we're different. We have some different
(35:50):
views on things, but when it comes to the fundamentals,
who is God, who is Jesus, Who's the Holy Spirit,
what is salvation? What's the gospel? What is ben is Hell?
All of those things we greet right down the line.
So when we get together we can for each other.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
And here I heard in that I just had this conversation.
I know the answer to this that I know you
do too. We'll talk about it when we come back.
Conversation about Hell, even among Christians is quite interesting. Yeah,
job a senior house, don't go for our people. A
lot more coming up right after the break you're listening to.
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Speaker 5 (41:38):
It has been established the persons who have recently.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Died have been returning to life and committing acts of murder.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Do you know this?
Speaker 6 (41:46):
Man? Go ahead, make my day.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
We are back. Joe Massin to your host. Always a
pleasure to have you with me. A five five real
Joe five five seven three to two five five six.
We get involved, getting gauge, be part of the solution.
Always appreciate the time you're spending with me, and you
can find us at Joe Massina dot com Joe Massina
dot com. Wee can watch Liveless of Life, get involved
in the conversation in the chat room. Just a lot
of good things going on. I've got Pastor David Hag
(42:27):
on the line with me and we're well, I'm talking
about him, and we're looking at what appears to be
a decline among Christians in this country to non Christian
or no faith whatsoever. I don't even want to call it.
I can't even call it a belief system. I guess
if you have no faith, that's a belief system. Anyway.
(42:48):
That's the Hey, thanks for being with me.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
Yeah, you know what I think the survey shows is
that people are finally being honest.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Maybe that's a good pob I'm.
Speaker 5 (42:58):
I'm a mixed Christian. I'm not really, It's not really
a huge thing in my life to know the Bible,
to know what Jesus even teaches. Consequently, I can kind
of make up my own soup of Christianity. I can say, well,
this is what I want Jesus to be, and this
is what someone has told me he can be. And
so I'm coming up with a religion that I can
(43:20):
It doesn't make any demands on me. I can live
anyway I want to and still feel like Jesus is
my life coach and he's my advocate, and he just
loves everybody no matter what. And then at some point
they're gonna look and they're gonna say, wait a minute,
I was wrong, and I'm going to pay the consequences,
both in this life and the next.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Well, I kind of fall down the line of barn
to two degree that you grew up with a lack
of strict boundaries and it makes it hard to determine
the truth. He goes on to say, when two of
three adults believe the truth is conditional, so there's no absolutes.
So if you grew up with no absalutes, then how
do I know that Jesus is God. How do I
(44:01):
know that Jesus? How do I know the writings of
the Bible are the.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
What's what's happened in our society? I mean I hate
to be not hate. I actually love it bringing up stuff.
We have Supreme Court justice who doesn't know what a
woman is. We have a whole bunch of people in
our in our in our country who cannot say that
when an egg and a sperm, meat, and there's an embryo,
they can't say it's human. Well as I like to
(44:28):
tell people, what is it? Is it famine? Is it? Oh?
What is it? It's human? And so we have fun
into science and you know, you and I have eight
hundred billion cells Joe, and each of them as a
male marker. And so during COVID we're said, follow all
the science, fall the science. But when it comes to
(44:48):
determining what a woman is and determining what a human is,
so in a in a society where a man can
marry a man and a woman can marry a woman,
and now transgenderism, and now you've got people who the
government are paying for transgender surgeries and all that. In
(45:09):
that environment, what you're basically saying to the kids who
are growing up, Look, there is no truth. You can
change whatever you want. So it's no, it doesn't surprise
me that someone would try Jesus for a little while,
try the church for a little while, and then find
out that, you know, I can, I can bend some
of the rules of the Bible to fit my temperament,
(45:32):
to sent my lifestyle. And they come up with this, Yeah,
there's no absolute truth, not even the Bible. But I
think you know, I'm going to try Jesus enough to
him to me my life.
Speaker 6 (45:41):
Coach.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
We live in a society where truth is up for
grabs in all kinds of arenas. Oh, yeah, I hope
that's no.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
No, you're you're exactly right on. I mean, truth is
based on feeling. You know, what do you feel that
it is? What do you think you is? And and well,
my feeling is different than yours, So does it make him?
I love that term my truth. There's no such thing
as my truth. There is what I believe. But truth
is truth, And it doesn't matter what you feel, doesn't
(46:12):
matter what tradition you have, it doesn't matter what peer
pressures you're going through. Truth is truth, period.
Speaker 5 (46:19):
Well, there's there's what we call absolute truth. Two plus
two is four, Okay. Then there's what we call reasonable truth.
If you cross the freeway in the middle of Russia,
there's a good chance you're going to get hit. That's true. Now,
it might not happen every time, but still I would
call that kind of reasonable truth called wisdom. And so
(46:42):
if you don't have absolute truth, you're really going to
see a dirth, a famine in erosion in what we
call wisdom, because if you can turn something that is
factually absolutely true into something that isn't always true, wisdom
goes out the window. Yep. Like when a woman judge says,
(47:04):
I don't know what a woman is and we want
her way in on some of the weighty matters of
lawe and she doesn't even know what it wants I mean,
And then we laugh at it and Saturday Night Live
makes skits about it. But what we don't understand is
how this is eroding the actual mind and soul of
(47:25):
our country.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Now.
Speaker 5 (47:27):
I think there are some good things happening in and
around government today, but men the the backlash against it.
I've come to the place where I realize that if
you're in opposition. You have to use terrible language, you
have to use bad language, you have to cut to scream.
(47:49):
I'm just going whatever happened to virtue and self control?
Oh wait a minute, those are biblical values, Those are
fruits of the spirit.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
So as I should have a right to express myself,
I should have a right. You know, if you aggravate me,
for me be able to yell at you to put
you in your place. Right, that's all I have a
freedom to do.
Speaker 5 (48:10):
Yeah. What's interesting is that you won't find an attorney
doing his closing arguments believing that he has a right
to call the jury whatever he wants to because he's
trying to convince them of something. He's trying to relationship
with them. And when I see politicians and athletes and
just regular old people on the street just going out
(48:33):
of their way to alienate people, I just have to
ask myself, man, what have we become? And I know
the answer. We've left God behind. When God we trust,
do we say the One Nation under God? Most people don't.
And then our previous president on Resurrection Sunday decided to
make it transgender Sunday. I mean that just tells you
(48:56):
where we are I was very thankful to Susident Trump
doing what he did this year.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, it's really you know, and I you both you
and I both know some of the naysayers who will say, no,
he doesn't really believe, he doesn't this. I said, you know,
at this point, I don't care anymore. The mere fact
that God and you know, the God of the Bible,
Jesus are being prayed to and inside the White House
to me is a massive deal, a massive shift in
(49:22):
a mindset. And I think the reason we're going through
everything we're going with these lawless judges is because of
the pushback of the enemy over this seeing what's happening.
That's my personal opinion.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Yeah, and then there were one hundred and seventy thousand
jobs made. Yeah, and behind that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
No, I'm you know what it's like everything else, you know.
I tried to explain this to somebody the other day
that I said, when you first come to Christ, you
have a life behind you that is still lingering in
your DNA, if you would, right lingering around you. And
there's a perceived pain as you give those things up,
as you move away from them, as you stop practicing
(50:05):
those things. Well, I think we have the same thing
going on.
Speaker 5 (50:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
We've lived fat, dumb, and happy to a degree. Right,
we have all these that now we're cutting these things,
and there's some pain involved in it, and there will
be some pain until they flatten out. And I think
you need to write it out, don't you think?
Speaker 3 (50:22):
You know?
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Yeah, I agree, And I'm just thinking about the fact
that God created everyone in the image of God, and
there's a God shaped vacuum. I mean, you think about movies.
We all want movies to have a happy ending. We
all loan something that's better than what we have now,
we just find the wrong road to get there. I mean,
(50:45):
you talk to somebody who's on drugs or alcohol or
anything else that, in some way is something from outside
of them that they think is going to make the
inside of them better. Eventually, it doesn't. I mean, it
just doesn't. Joy is found not by finding something outside
of me. It's by letting God inside of me, so
(51:06):
the spirit of God dwells within me and transforms me
and changes me so that I see gentleness and goodness
and purity and righteousness and hard work and all those
things as a value rather than something that can be
poop pood in order to follow the way that I
want to live. You know, when Adam decided he'd be
(51:27):
in charge of his life, it didn't work out.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, yeah, all right, you've got about a minute and
a half, which I know is a dangerous amount of
time for a pastor of the microphone, but go ahead
and give go ahead and give your message to those
young people or who might be listening, and say, you
know what, there was an absolute truth.
Speaker 5 (51:49):
Yeah. I think the question that I would ask everybody
is why is there something rather than nothing? We all
know that every effect had a cause. And even Aristotle
k news that if you go back and say, okay,
what caused this tree, well it was the seed, what
caused the seed? Another tree? What caused that tree? And
you know, you go back and you keep going back
(52:09):
and back and back into it. Finally, Aristotle said you
had to find the unmoved mover, the uncaused cause. If
you don't have something that started it all that was
itself not caused in others, something that was eternal. If
you don't have that, you don't have anything. And the
fact that we have something means that somewhere in time
(52:33):
past there was an uncaused cause. And then when you
ask yourself, okay, what kind of cause was it? You
will look at what it caused, look at the complexity
of our world, of the eye, of the body, of
the trees, of the weather, of the solar, look at
the complexity at whatever caused it must have been intelligent.
(52:58):
And then you say, wait a minute, you know what
else there is in this world? There's a moral foundation. See,
little baby knows that when you take a battle away,
if they don't like it, you're a number one knows
from your grandmother. Good cause build us and we deserve
to live.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
We want to I gotta cut I gotta cut you off.
I'll tell people where they can find your blog, and
God bless for what you do, and we'll have you
back on soon. Do Jova say to your host, don't
go for our people. A lot more coming up in
the next hour.
Speaker 16 (53:43):
America's News Update. I'm John Schaeffer. Last month's jobs report
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