August 7, 2024 • 13 mins
SPECIAL GUEST: J. Michael Waller, author of Big Intel: How the CIA and FBI Went from Cold War Heroes to Deep State Villains.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Very pleased to welcome to the show. He's the author
of Big Intel, How the CIA and the FBI went
from Cold War heroes to Deep State villains. We welcome
to the show, Jay, Michael Waller, good morning. Thank you
so much for coming on the show this morning. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Oh, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Jud Listen, let's start here, I know initially and we
will talk about what's taken place relating to Biden ending
his twenty twenty four bid now endorsing Kamala Harrison. I'm
very curious to get your thoughts now that some time
has transpired and we've had Kamala's coronation. But based off
of your background and specifically your book, Big Intel, let's
(00:38):
start with your thoughts on the current state of the
FBI and the CIA. We know that they're in the
spotlight along with the Secret Service. We're expecting a Secret
Service press conference at one o'clock our time here at
twin Cities and news talk getting into further details of
what happened with that attempted assassination attempt on Trump. But
I know that in your book you say you know,
(01:02):
once upon a time, the FBI and CIA fought America's
enemies at home and abroad. But you talk about how
that's changed. Can you point J. Michael Waller to a
specific moment in time when that subversion of these government
entities by the left began? Or is it something that
sort of happened slowly over time.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It was really gradual. It happened over a course of decades.
But the real tipping point came during President Obama's first
term when he issued executive orders. After President George W.
Bush had centralized the intelligence apparatus to fight terrorism better.
Obama used that centralization to create his fundamental change within
(01:44):
the intelligence community.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
When it comes to the people, you know, there's a
lot of calls to dismand the FBI that's broken beyond repair.
Do you agree with that or can it be fixed?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I thought it could be fixed, and I hoped it
couldn't fixed because I know the FBI pretty well. It
can't be. It's time to retire. It's to take to
take the parts that work. I take the parts that
we need, salvage them and move them over to other agencies,
and then and then close down the rest.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know in your book, Big Intel, you get into
this gradual process. That's that's taken place, but talk a
bit about the inspiration for writing the book and what
you hope people ultimately take away the go and check
it out.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, publisher knew me, and the editor actually called me
and asked me to write the book about the CIA
because he knew from a long ago we were in
college at the same time. He knew what I was
doing in college down in Central America against the Communists
under President Reagan's first term. So he asked me to
write the book. And then I said, hey, let's let's
(02:47):
throw in the FBI because that that affects everybody's life
every day. And so he agreed, and that's how the
book came about.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I want to I'm going to paint kind of a broad,
broad picture here as we bring in the current status
of this presidential election, all that's transpired over the course
of the past few weeks. I'm in a unique position
looking at the media on a daily basis and seeing,
you know, all the various outlets. I've never seen so
much propaganda being perpetuated within our within our media as
(03:19):
I have over the course of the of the past
few months. I'm curious to get your perspective based off
of your time working for the CIA, looking at these
other nations, and how you kind of compare where we
are in America right now and where we're heading. I mean,
where do you think we're Where do you think we're heading?
(03:40):
Relating to these issues of the day where it seems
more and more like we are turning into you know,
our country is like our adversaries. Where do you think
the country is heading right now?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, we're heading toward a banana republic status. We're destroying
the great American experiments. When you have a security paratus
that really isn't accountable to anyone, when it's become politicized
to the point beyond even a liberal versus conservative, it's
run by people who fundamentally don't believe in American founding principles,
(04:15):
believe that America was founded by evil men, that it
has stood for evil for all of its existence, and
that it needs to be fundamentally transformed. And when you
have it from that perspective that the people safeguarding our
constitution or really have a globalist agenda where America must
be punished and those who stand up for American principles
(04:35):
aren't really the enemy, then you have a terrible dire
situation for our whole country.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Relating to what the Democrats have done with Biden dropping
out of the race. And I still have a big
question in my mind and wonder if he's even going
to make it to the end of his term. I mean,
every time we see him out in public now, he
seems to just be a worse and worse case. And
I had predicted that he wasn't going to be the nominee.
And again, I'm in a unique position because I covered
this stuff on a daily basis and it seems like
(05:03):
he was in a very rapid decline.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But I'm wondering right now.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It seems to be a love fest relating to you know,
Kamala's coronation. But do you think that the Democrats are
really all on board with each other or is there
more going on behind the scenes In your opinion, well, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
More going on behind the scenes. It's all a matter
of control, because for them, it really is about control.
And with all the power that they have and the
money that goes with that power, and the contracting and
the political argist that goes with it, it's a colossal
thing that they face losing it wasn't. It was just
a few weeks ago when nobody took Kamala Harris seriously
(05:40):
at all, especially the Democrat Party. So and they were
wondering whether Biden was going to jump her from the
ticket and really hoping that they would. So this whole
turnaround is part of the flowiness of the party. Here's
a good example. The Democrat Party is a vanguard party,
meaning that the decisions that the debate in the party.
But once the debate is decided, than everyone has to
(06:02):
be on board. Whereas the Republican Party you always have
factions and fighting and argumentation all the way up through
election day. So there are two very different kinds of parties.
A vanyard party came about. I mean, that's what the
Bolshevik Party was in Russia. These people today have modeled
themselves after that type of party for the sake of
(06:23):
keeping control.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I'm curious and and and again I'm kind of deviating here,
but mentioning Russia, we had this prisoner swap that took place,
and everybody is in agreement, and I am as well.
I'm glad we got these people home. But you had
Trump and others, you know, questioning this deal. That was made.
I can't imagine, you know, Russia making a deal that
(06:47):
isn't in some way, shape or form most beneficial to
their interests. Do you have any further thoughts on the
on the Russian prison swap, especially given your your background.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I do. I know one of the men who
was freed, Vladimir car of Worza, and I've got to say,
they're you know, Puttin didn't do this just to be
a nice guy. And he didn't do it because he
needs those people. Those people that he got back, he
can do fine without them. He got something much bigger
behind the scenes. And a lot of people, including Gary
(07:18):
kasparof remember the former Soviet chess player. He's always been
a big Hillary Clinton and a big Biden pusher, and
now he came out yesterday and said he thinks that
the administration has made a secret deal with Putin to
sell out Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
What do you make And again I'm jumping around here
as we talked to J. Michael Waller, and the author
is a big intel how the CIA and FBI went
from Cold War heroes to deep state villains. We are
going to have this press conference with further information. We're
being told from our United States Secret Service at one
o'clock relating to that assassination attempt on Trump. But again,
(07:54):
I'm curious with your background with the CIA, what is
your take on what transpired on July thirteenth that did
cost somebody his life, but almost cost you know, President
Donald Trump his life.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, we really don't know. I think it was I
think there was a real tell that. The day after
the assassination attempt, the FBI came out an issued a
statement saying that they don't have all the information yet
by any means, but they believe that the shooter acted alone. Well,
why would the FBI ever make such a statement if
(08:26):
they didn't have all the information and now they're investigating
so much as if the shooter did not act a
long We don't know whether or not he did, but
it was an irresponsible thing to say. And if you
see how the FBI has tried to control a narrative,
with the FBI director saying, well, maybe Trump wasn't shot
after all, Maybe it was just a piece of shrapnel
(08:47):
that hit his ear, completely changing the narrative to the
point where the FBI had to issue a reversal of that.
The FBI director himself never did though, so you can
see the FBI messing with public perceptions of what happening
and of what might have happened that day. We do know.
We see the incompetence that happened at best. We see
(09:10):
how the shooter was observed, was reported. They knew about it.
They didn't stop Trump from appearing me. The Secret Service didn't. Normally,
when you have a threat like that, the Secret Services
they sir, we cannot have you come up. There's a
thread out there, and they'll delay him a bit. That's
perfectly normal. But now you have all these other things
coming out where he knew Acting Director of the Secret
Service shut down will reduce the threat assessment people, the
(09:34):
people in the Secret Service whose job is to assess
the intelligence to determine the nature and types and scope
of possible threats to the people who they're guarding, and
a whole lot of other failures that these have to
be deliberate failures, meaning I don't think there was an
active plot to assassinate Trump within the Secret Service. I
(09:55):
do think there was an active plan to be as
minimalist as possible and to not put the proper people
and the proper resources available to protect him.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Do you think it comes down to and again talking
with J. Michael Waller, author of Big Intel, do you
think it comes down to politics relating to the bias
that people have or do you think it just comes
down to whether or not the individuals are qualified or
not to be tasked with the job that they've been doing.
(10:29):
Is there any way, you know, I'm just curious to
get your thoughts if it's bias or if it's just
individuals that shouldn't have been in these positions within these
government organizations.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's both of those things, and it's also poor leadership,
lack of accountability, and negligence. This is where you you know,
the Secret Service was operating under the radar forever. There
was never any good oversight hearings of the Secret Service
in my memory. So they were operating under an ideological leader.
(10:59):
The previous one, Chiebel, who had to resign, and she
was imposing an ideological agenda on the Secret Service, which
is her diversity, equity and inclusion agenda, meaning you don't
put the best people in for the jobs, you put
the most politically appropriate people in for the jobs. Now
we learned that her successor and who was her number two,
(11:21):
Rowe had previously worked for Senator Pat Lady, you know,
an ultraliberal Democrat. So this means this guy has a
political pass of his own, and he's not simply a
professional security man. So you've got all these other things
that come together, and then really a lack of morale
because of the poor leadership within the Secret Service, a
(11:43):
sense of a lot of the best people leaving in
disgust because of the politicalization, and the negligent I mean,
imagine they had a drone that was assigned to monitor
the area for Trump's security, but they didn't have it
up and running until after He's posted started speaking, so
they you know, it's it's this sloppiness that has been
(12:07):
allowed to fester and which opens DELF up to a
couple of things. It opens the Secret Service up to
being manipulated by cynical, malicious people. But it also allows
a syentizens to take advantage of the incompetence of their negligence.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
There was this new video that came out talking about
this assassination attempt on Donald Trump and Pennsylvania. On July thirteenth,
new video came out a perspective shot from behind Trump
up at the podium where you can actually see an
individual up on that roof. Now it's raising more questions.
As I mentioned, the Secret Service is going to be
holding a press conference at one o'clock our time. Is
there something that you would personally like to hear from
(12:48):
the from the Secret Service relating to this of you know,
to this event. Are there are there questions in your
mind that you most specifically want to hear answered that
maybe haven't been answered yet. Do you have any expectations
about this afternoon press conference.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think they're going to try to look more comprehensive,
but they're really not going to answer key questions like
how did politicization which was directed by whole Land Security
Secretary Majorcus who was answering to President Biden to politicized
Secret Service with diversity, equity and inclusion and the other
cultural Marxist revolutionary activities that are going on inside these geocracies.
(13:27):
They're not going to own up to that.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You can head on over at Amazon dot com. I'm
looking at the page right now, Big Intel How the
CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes to Deep
State Villains by Jmichael Waller. You can also go and
check out your substack, your substack at big Intel dot
substack dot com. Thank you so much for the time
this morning. I really do appreciate it and I enjoyed
the conversations.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Good to be with you, John,
Very pleased to welcome to the show. He's the author
of Big Intel, How the CIA and the FBI went
from Cold War heroes to Deep State villains. We welcome
to the show, Jay, Michael Waller, good morning. Thank you
so much for coming on the show this morning. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Oh, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Jud Listen, let's start here, I know initially and we
will talk about what's taken place relating to Biden ending
his twenty twenty four bid now endorsing Kamala Harrison. I'm
very curious to get your thoughts now that some time
has transpired and we've had Kamala's coronation. But based off
of your background and specifically your book, Big Intel, let's
(00:38):
start with your thoughts on the current state of the
FBI and the CIA. We know that they're in the
spotlight along with the Secret Service. We're expecting a Secret
Service press conference at one o'clock our time here at
twin Cities and news talk getting into further details of
what happened with that attempted assassination attempt on Trump. But
I know that in your book you say you know,
(01:02):
once upon a time, the FBI and CIA fought America's
enemies at home and abroad. But you talk about how
that's changed. Can you point J. Michael Waller to a
specific moment in time when that subversion of these government
entities by the left began? Or is it something that
sort of happened slowly over time.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It was really gradual. It happened over a course of decades.
But the real tipping point came during President Obama's first
term when he issued executive orders. After President George W.
Bush had centralized the intelligence apparatus to fight terrorism better.
Obama used that centralization to create his fundamental change within
(01:44):
the intelligence community.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
When it comes to the people, you know, there's a
lot of calls to dismand the FBI that's broken beyond repair.
Do you agree with that or can it be fixed?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I thought it could be fixed, and I hoped it
couldn't fixed because I know the FBI pretty well. It
can't be. It's time to retire. It's to take to
take the parts that work. I take the parts that
we need, salvage them and move them over to other agencies,
and then and then close down the rest.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I know in your book, Big Intel, you get into
this gradual process. That's that's taken place, but talk a
bit about the inspiration for writing the book and what
you hope people ultimately take away the go and check
it out.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, publisher knew me, and the editor actually called me
and asked me to write the book about the CIA
because he knew from a long ago we were in
college at the same time. He knew what I was
doing in college down in Central America against the Communists
under President Reagan's first term. So he asked me to
write the book. And then I said, hey, let's let's
(02:47):
throw in the FBI because that that affects everybody's life
every day. And so he agreed, and that's how the
book came about.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I want to I'm going to paint kind of a broad,
broad picture here as we bring in the current status
of this presidential election, all that's transpired over the course
of the past few weeks. I'm in a unique position
looking at the media on a daily basis and seeing,
you know, all the various outlets. I've never seen so
much propaganda being perpetuated within our within our media as
(03:19):
I have over the course of the of the past
few months. I'm curious to get your perspective based off
of your time working for the CIA, looking at these
other nations, and how you kind of compare where we
are in America right now and where we're heading. I mean,
where do you think we're Where do you think we're heading?
(03:40):
Relating to these issues of the day where it seems
more and more like we are turning into you know,
our country is like our adversaries. Where do you think
the country is heading right now?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, we're heading toward a banana republic status. We're destroying
the great American experiments. When you have a security paratus
that really isn't accountable to anyone, when it's become politicized
to the point beyond even a liberal versus conservative, it's
run by people who fundamentally don't believe in American founding principles,
(04:15):
believe that America was founded by evil men, that it
has stood for evil for all of its existence, and
that it needs to be fundamentally transformed. And when you
have it from that perspective that the people safeguarding our
constitution or really have a globalist agenda where America must
be punished and those who stand up for American principles
(04:35):
aren't really the enemy, then you have a terrible dire
situation for our whole country.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Relating to what the Democrats have done with Biden dropping
out of the race. And I still have a big
question in my mind and wonder if he's even going
to make it to the end of his term. I mean,
every time we see him out in public now, he
seems to just be a worse and worse case. And
I had predicted that he wasn't going to be the nominee.
And again, I'm in a unique position because I covered
this stuff on a daily basis and it seems like
(05:03):
he was in a very rapid decline.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
But I'm wondering right now.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It seems to be a love fest relating to you know,
Kamala's coronation. But do you think that the Democrats are
really all on board with each other or is there
more going on behind the scenes In your opinion, well, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
More going on behind the scenes. It's all a matter
of control, because for them, it really is about control.
And with all the power that they have and the
money that goes with that power, and the contracting and
the political argist that goes with it, it's a colossal
thing that they face losing it wasn't. It was just
a few weeks ago when nobody took Kamala Harris seriously
(05:40):
at all, especially the Democrat Party. So and they were
wondering whether Biden was going to jump her from the
ticket and really hoping that they would. So this whole
turnaround is part of the flowiness of the party. Here's
a good example. The Democrat Party is a vanguard party,
meaning that the decisions that the debate in the party.
But once the debate is decided, than everyone has to
(06:02):
be on board. Whereas the Republican Party you always have
factions and fighting and argumentation all the way up through
election day. So there are two very different kinds of parties.
A vanyard party came about. I mean, that's what the
Bolshevik Party was in Russia. These people today have modeled
themselves after that type of party for the sake of
(06:23):
keeping control.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I'm curious and and and again I'm kind of deviating here,
but mentioning Russia, we had this prisoner swap that took place,
and everybody is in agreement, and I am as well.
I'm glad we got these people home. But you had
Trump and others, you know, questioning this deal. That was made.
I can't imagine, you know, Russia making a deal that
(06:47):
isn't in some way, shape or form most beneficial to
their interests. Do you have any further thoughts on the
on the Russian prison swap, especially given your your background.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, I do. I know one of the men who
was freed, Vladimir car of Worza, and I've got to say,
they're you know, Puttin didn't do this just to be
a nice guy. And he didn't do it because he
needs those people. Those people that he got back, he
can do fine without them. He got something much bigger
behind the scenes. And a lot of people, including Gary
(07:18):
kasparof remember the former Soviet chess player. He's always been
a big Hillary Clinton and a big Biden pusher, and
now he came out yesterday and said he thinks that
the administration has made a secret deal with Putin to
sell out Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
What do you make And again I'm jumping around here
as we talked to J. Michael Waller, and the author
is a big intel how the CIA and FBI went
from Cold War heroes to deep state villains. We are
going to have this press conference with further information. We're
being told from our United States Secret Service at one
o'clock relating to that assassination attempt on Trump. But again,
(07:54):
I'm curious with your background with the CIA, what is
your take on what transpired on July thirteenth that did
cost somebody his life, but almost cost you know, President
Donald Trump his life.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, we really don't know. I think it was I
think there was a real tell that. The day after
the assassination attempt, the FBI came out an issued a
statement saying that they don't have all the information yet
by any means, but they believe that the shooter acted alone. Well,
why would the FBI ever make such a statement if
(08:26):
they didn't have all the information and now they're investigating
so much as if the shooter did not act a
long We don't know whether or not he did, but
it was an irresponsible thing to say. And if you
see how the FBI has tried to control a narrative,
with the FBI director saying, well, maybe Trump wasn't shot
after all, Maybe it was just a piece of shrapnel
(08:47):
that hit his ear, completely changing the narrative to the
point where the FBI had to issue a reversal of that.
The FBI director himself never did though, so you can
see the FBI messing with public perceptions of what happening
and of what might have happened that day. We do know.
We see the incompetence that happened at best. We see
(09:10):
how the shooter was observed, was reported. They knew about it.
They didn't stop Trump from appearing me. The Secret Service didn't. Normally,
when you have a threat like that, the Secret Services
they sir, we cannot have you come up. There's a
thread out there, and they'll delay him a bit. That's
perfectly normal. But now you have all these other things
coming out where he knew Acting Director of the Secret
Service shut down will reduce the threat assessment people, the
(09:34):
people in the Secret Service whose job is to assess
the intelligence to determine the nature and types and scope
of possible threats to the people who they're guarding, and
a whole lot of other failures that these have to
be deliberate failures, meaning I don't think there was an
active plot to assassinate Trump within the Secret Service. I
(09:55):
do think there was an active plan to be as
minimalist as possible and to not put the proper people
and the proper resources available to protect him.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Do you think it comes down to and again talking
with J. Michael Waller, author of Big Intel, do you
think it comes down to politics relating to the bias
that people have or do you think it just comes
down to whether or not the individuals are qualified or
not to be tasked with the job that they've been doing.
(10:29):
Is there any way, you know, I'm just curious to
get your thoughts if it's bias or if it's just
individuals that shouldn't have been in these positions within these
government organizations.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's both of those things, and it's also poor leadership,
lack of accountability, and negligence. This is where you you know,
the Secret Service was operating under the radar forever. There
was never any good oversight hearings of the Secret Service
in my memory. So they were operating under an ideological leader.
(10:59):
The previous one, Chiebel, who had to resign, and she
was imposing an ideological agenda on the Secret Service, which
is her diversity, equity and inclusion agenda, meaning you don't
put the best people in for the jobs, you put
the most politically appropriate people in for the jobs. Now
we learned that her successor and who was her number two,
(11:21):
Rowe had previously worked for Senator Pat Lady, you know,
an ultraliberal Democrat. So this means this guy has a
political pass of his own, and he's not simply a
professional security man. So you've got all these other things
that come together, and then really a lack of morale
because of the poor leadership within the Secret Service, a
(11:43):
sense of a lot of the best people leaving in
disgust because of the politicalization, and the negligent I mean,
imagine they had a drone that was assigned to monitor
the area for Trump's security, but they didn't have it
up and running until after He's posted started speaking, so
they you know, it's it's this sloppiness that has been
(12:07):
allowed to fester and which opens DELF up to a
couple of things. It opens the Secret Service up to
being manipulated by cynical, malicious people. But it also allows
a syentizens to take advantage of the incompetence of their negligence.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
There was this new video that came out talking about
this assassination attempt on Donald Trump and Pennsylvania. On July thirteenth,
new video came out a perspective shot from behind Trump
up at the podium where you can actually see an
individual up on that roof. Now it's raising more questions.
As I mentioned, the Secret Service is going to be
holding a press conference at one o'clock our time. Is
there something that you would personally like to hear from
(12:48):
the from the Secret Service relating to this of you know,
to this event. Are there are there questions in your
mind that you most specifically want to hear answered that
maybe haven't been answered yet. Do you have any expectations
about this afternoon press conference.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think they're going to try to look more comprehensive,
but they're really not going to answer key questions like
how did politicization which was directed by whole Land Security
Secretary Majorcus who was answering to President Biden to politicized
Secret Service with diversity, equity and inclusion and the other
cultural Marxist revolutionary activities that are going on inside these geocracies.
(13:27):
They're not going to own up to that.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
You can head on over at Amazon dot com. I'm
looking at the page right now, Big Intel How the
CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes to Deep
State Villains by Jmichael Waller. You can also go and
check out your substack, your substack at big Intel dot
substack dot com. Thank you so much for the time
this morning. I really do appreciate it and I enjoyed
the conversations.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Good to be with you, John,
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