May 14, 2023 • 57 mins
Clenora Hudson (Weems), ed. Africana-Melanated Womanism: In It Together. Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2022. https://www.cambridgescholars.com/product/978-1-5275-8564-5/Clenora Hudson-Weems, ed. Africana Paradigms, Practices, and Literary Texts: Evoking Social Justice. Kendall Hunt, 2021. https://he.kendallhunt.com/product/africana-paradigms-practices-and-literary-texts-evoking-social-justiceClenora Hudson-Weems. Africana Womanism: Reclaiming Ourselves Fifth Edition of 1993 classic text--with 5 new chapters--Routledge, 2020. https://www.routledge.com/Africana-Womanism-Reclaiming-Ourselves/HudsonWeems/p/book/9780367253639
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I hope you're enjoying this big exclusive. Don't forget to subscribe to this channel.
Opportunity for Al Qaida and isis toslip folk across the border also to
sneak in. There are about twentyfour hundred Stinger missiles that the Reagan administration
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sold through Osama bin Laden to therebels in Afghanistan, and they're still unaccounted
for, and that's a good opportunityfor them to be smuggled back into the
country. And somebody with one ofthese shoulder fired things to walk and station
themselves outside of an airport ere intheir approach to a runway or the takeoff
(00:50):
section or into the runway and shootone down their heat seeking and they look
like old World War two bazookas MamaBond. Somebody's shoulder a general Aiman.
When you get a tone, pressthe trigger, allen comes an aircraft.
(01:11):
Really interesting stoke, and nobody seemsto give a damn. Well, we're
definitely going to talk about it becauseI want to hear what you guys gotta
say, Doctor Husson is that Ialways wanted to ask her. I think
I understand womanism, but I don't, and I wanted to know the difference
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between that and feminism. I knowthere's a huge difference, but anyway,
here we go while I look forher. You may have heard the word
intersectionality thrown around a lot lately.A black woman coined the term in nineteen
eighty nine to highlight the overlapping waysblack women are oppressed every day. Her
name is Professor Kimberly Crenshaw, andher work is especially relevant today because even
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though intersectionality is a buzzword these days, feminism still doesn't consider them. Many
ways, black women and other womenof color experience oppression, and that makes
a lot of people feel marginalized bythe movement that's supposed to fight for them.
Despite being historically left out of feminism, black women have always been doing
the work creating their own political andsocial movements that don't depend on traditional feminism
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at all. Writer Alice Walker coinedthe term womanists in nineteen eighty three.
Womanism is a social framework that separatesitself from feminism and centers black women.
Here's how scholar Lay Phillips versus.Unlike feminism, and despite its name,
womanism does not emphasize or privilege genderor sexism. Rather, it elevates all
sites and forms of oppression to alevel of equal concern and action. While
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scholars have drawn clear lines between whatseparates womanism and feminism, a lot of
Black women fall somewhere in between andidentify as black feminists. But as Professor
Patricia Hill Collins argues, there's notreally a term that represents the fullness of
what Black women now call black feminismand womanism. Regardless of how you identify,
Traditional feminism has always fallen short.It's forgotten how police brutality disproportionately affects
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Black women, that African American andLatino women continue to make less than literally
everyone else, and that murders oftrans women of color are underreported and forgotten.
The good news is womanists and blackfeminists are more visible the safe and
they're helping to change the way peoplelook at feminism in the mainstream. Remember,
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you don't have to be black topractice intersectionality in your activism, and
you definitely don't have to be awoman, because if your activism leave some
women out, who are you reallyfighting for? What up? Y'all?
This is police they owned with theroute. We are dedicated to bringing you
more series all right, copyright oneof research and commentary in all things.
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But shout out to the route umfor making that clear. Doctor Hudson actually
did a video or I think shewas part of something that featured her.
I wasn't clear because I noticed thatit says something about black feminism or Africana
womanism. Yeah, it says featuringdoctor cleanor huss and Weeds. Okay,
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great son of course, yes,okay. Also also look for miss Delores
Brown. She's advised she's listening inthat's the lady with former will brought to
the Institute. Yes, she's on, Yes, she could press the one
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how are you? And also theother thing too is Professor Crenshaw operates out
of the UCLA Department of Minority Affairs, and I claim a personal interest in
that because doctor Ween's and tell youabout people standing on other people's shoulders,
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and I recognize in her critical racetheory thing a document I helped draft in
nineteen sixty seven for the Minority Affairsdepartment. It was located in Campbell Hall,
and I quite literally lost some personalfriends who were killed as a result
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of what was going on in astruggle over control of that department. I
visited them some years ago, probablybefore she got involved with them, and
I was appalled to see that thestruggle, death, and sacrifice are so
many that I knew back in thesixties had morphed into a degeneracy where it
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was sitting around on leather couches,sipping sharply and nibbling cheese and crackers and
engaged in some of the most inanebsdiscussions I had heard in a long time.
A friend of mine, who washelping the process out back in the
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sixties, was also present with me, and he was rather appalled as I
was, about the way things hadgone. So yeah, I say that
let's go, ladies. Welcome,Welcome, doctor Glenora Hudson Williams. How
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are you. I'm doing just fine. It's always so good coming on show.
But I will say that it soundslike you know very little about me.
And the fear of Africana woman ismmthat's been around for over three decades.
I'm really surprised, quite frankly.First of all, Africana woman is
not and I want to read froman article that I wrote back in the
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nineteen eighties. Now this is actuallya launched Africa woman is in late eighties,
but in the early nineteen nineties,nineteen ninety three, my first book
Africana Not African and Not just WomanismAfrican woman Is Africana Womanism was released,
but bet was publishers back in nineteenninety three, the same year that Tony
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Morrison received Adobe Appliance for Literature ofthe first African American Woman, Nobel Laurette.
That was the same year that nineteenninety three that my book came out.
And by the way, I've mentionedin Tony Morrison because I old co
authored the first book on Tony Morrisonin nineteen ninety At any rate, in
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that book, the first chapter makesvery clear two things what Africana womanism is
and then also what Africana womanism isnot. And I want to read the
the quote that comes from that,so that you know when you introduced me,
introduced me as the Africana womanist conceptualizer. I'm not an Africana I'm not
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a womanist. I'm not a blackfeminist, okay. And if once we
get that, then we got weon our way. Africana woman isn't,
by the way, is also global. You can google and see the various
venues that I have spoken on.In fact, the most recent one was
the keynote address at the University ofZimbabwe about a year and a half ago.
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I did the keynote address and alsothe same thing at the University of
Iowa, where I got my PhD. I did the keynotes for the fiftieth
anniversary of the Black Studiest Problem.There I finished and of course my dissertation
was on the flip side of thecoin, the first to establish the lunchion
of Emmettil as a true catalyst ofthe civil rights movement. That was my
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four doctoral dissertation nineteen eighty eight.But it was that same time, in
that three year period that I launchedthe Africana womanism concept, which is the
flip side of the coin and Africanor womanism. I want to read this
passage. I will telling you aboutquote neither an outgrowth nor addendum to feminism.
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Fricana womanism is not to Black feminism, not African feminism or Walkers womanism
that some Africana women have come toembrace. African or womanism is an ideology
created and designed for all women ofAfrican descent. It is grounded in African
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culture and therefore necessarily focuses on theunique experiences, struggles, needs, and
desires of Africana women. It criticallyaddresses the dynamics of the conflict between the
mainstream feminist, the Black feminist,the African feminist, and the Africana womanist.
The conclusion is that Africana womanism andits agenda are unique and separate from
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both white feminism and Black feminism.And more over, to the extent of
name in in particular, Africana womanismdiffers from African feminism. So you're talking
about a different, completely different paradigm. In fact, the Universe Zimbabwe in
two thousand and ten hosted the firstInternational African Womanism Conference and the one that
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I just told you about that Idid the keyno address at both of those
venues, the ones they just hadin two thousand and twenty one or twenty
two. I believe that was onwomen. And so, yeah, Afrikana
woman is really out there. Andh and by the way, yes,
intersectionality is a buzzword. But letme just say this one thing, Africana
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womanism. And when I talked aboutthe interconnectivity of race, class, a
gender, the prioritization race class,agender that came out before the term that
Crenshall introduced intersection anality, which hedid in nineteen eighty nine. I was
already doing it in nineteen eighty five, eighty six, eighty seven, eighty
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eight, and eighty nine. Infact, two articles came out in major
black journals in eighty nine, onein the Western Journal Black Studies called Culture
and Agenda Conflicts in Academia Critical Issuesfor Africana Women's Studies, and the other
on them came out in the journalBlack Sets, both of them in eighty
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nine. Talking about the as Ithink it is entitled um Africana Womanism the
Tripartite Plight of Black Women. Ijust want to say that I hardly know
a white woman who can tell mewhat to do and how to think and
how to act, because that's whatAfricana woman is. It is it's a
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paradigm of family centered paradigm, notfemale centered. And that was the basis,
as you know, for feminism.The major person doing this the peak
of the civil rights movement, Bettyfree Dan, with the feminist mystique.
Her whole thing was family centrality andgender with white, suburban white women in
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the Chicago area who are bored withhousehold drudgery. It's interesting just to get
off for a minute. I quiteenjoyed your previous speaker because when she talked
about cooking and all that, that'swhat the Afrikana woman is does. She
does it all. When you lookat the eighteen characteristics of the Afrikana woman
is she's mothering and nurturing, soshe's gotten to know how to cook,
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you know. And what she wassaying, you know, I said,
wow, this is nothing, butthe Afrikana woman is in action, because
that's a piece of it. Theother pieces that we're always in concert with
the male and the struggle. Wecan't afford the luxury of dividing. The
gender divide is not our things.It never was and it really shouldn't be
in at this point. It's race, class and gender in that order.
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Race first. But at any rate, what I'm saying is that we really
have to stand that we need tocreate our own paradigms. Why are we
piggybacking on somebody else's name. Whenyou call yourself a black feminist, a
problem is you're using the word feminismwith all of its connotations and denotations,
all of the particulars of what itmeans feminis when they talk about our families
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in tracts, but female centrality,you know, we can't deal with that.
When they talk about I'm moving fromthe home place to the workplace,
We've always been in the workplace,So that's not our agenda. When they
talk about breaking silence and founding voice, I hardly know a silent black woman.
So why are we piggybacking off ofsomeone else's name and naming ourselves after
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them when in fact we're with theblueprint. What we're doing in reality is
duplicating a duplicate And I found thatvery odd, and so that's why I
created my own name for us.I didn't create african a woman isn't in
and of itself. I simply observedAfricana woman throughout the ages all over the
world, and how we go aboutliving who we are, how we go
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about ideally lives confronting those types ofobstacles, some of those same things that
our male companions have as well.And so what I did was I named
and then defined and culminated with refininga paradigm relative to who we are and
how we go about ourdeally lives.That's that's what I did. That was
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the hardest thing to get women tostop calling themselves or naming themselves up for
somebody else, because people just assumethat if you're any form of a feminist,
if you're any kind of feminists,that you're dealing with femal centrality,
that you're dealing with all those things, and those are not our priorities.
Okay, I don't want to justkeep talking about pausitive for men, but
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I hope you understand what Africana womanisn't is. It's different Alice Walker says,
or woman is chief defines or awoman. And by the way,
I have five books out on Africanor womanism. I did three books doing
the pandemic. The first one wasthe reprint of After Account, A Woman's
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Reclaiming Ourselves, because that publisher,after decades in publication, went out of
print, and so I got incontact with the Rutledge and Rutledge did a
reprint with it's the fifth edition withfive new chapters. And by the way,
one of those chapters, just toclassy what I'm talking about, is
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entitled is Chapter ten. I believeso chapter eleven. It's called Africana womanism's
race, class, and gender preintersectionality. It came before and in all
my works in the eighties and ninetiesand two thousand and still it's interconec it's
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a collectivity. It's uh connectivity orconnectiveness or interconnectiveness. It was never called
intersectionality because intersectionality almost suggests that youknow, things come together and at some
point it kind of branches off andthen you reconnect. Well, we can't
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afford to break off. We arealways connected. We are interconnected or like
Fabric Waldwyn fabric. So I don'tbuy the terminology even and by the way,
I was talking about Betterfrey Dan,she is the person for dealing with
feminism. Ten years after her feministmistique was launched in nineteen sixty one,
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Tony Morrison wrote a fabulous article inNew York Times that was nineteen seventy one.
But the black woman thinks about thewomen's lib movement, and she made
it very clear, and she culminatedwith the fact that too much emphasis is
placed on gender gender issues, toomuch so that lets you know that she's
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not really she was not really afeminist. But at any rate, what
I was saying is that Uh.The Africana Womanism came out first in twenty
twenty. The following year two thousandand twenty one, Africana Paradigms, practices
and literary texts evoke in Social Change, in which doctor I'm sorry, Judge
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Joe Brown wrote the forward to that. Uh, that came out. And
then the following year, um,and that was with of course a US
publisher, Um Kendall Hunt. Iwas invited to do that, uh,
particularly a book. And then thethird book for doing the pandemic is called
Africana Nonated Womanism in it Together andthey came out with Cambridge Scholars. Just
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to tell you that I've been workingvery hard, but I just want you
to know that Alice Walker's definition ofafrican Or womanism, but let you know,
I mean not Africana, but ofwomanism. That lets you know that's
not my thing. It couldn't bein fact what she says. And I
just want to read from that firstchat on african Or womanism. She says
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Walker in the introduction to her bookIn Search of Our Mother's Garden, she
says, a womanness is a blackquote a black feminist or feminist of color.
We'll see right away. We're notthe same who loves and other women
sexually and or non sexually, appreciatethem, prefers women's culture, and who
sometimes loved individual men sexually and ornon sexually, committed to survival and wholeness
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of entire people, male or female. I like that part, but then
she goes back. Womanness is thefeminist as purple to lavender. You're talking
about only a shade differentiation. Afrikindof woman is insponded more than a shade
differentiation, so entirely different agenda.It is naming our sales, and we
have to and African cosmology to callit. No mo It isn't with the
proper naming of a thing that itcomes into existence, etc. All of
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those designing things that you expecting.It happens, but you have to call
it out first, name yourself.Don't make name yourself after somebody unless there's
something about you that's very much akinto it. And black women, let's
face it, we cannot deal withthe battle of the sexes because we are
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battling with this whole thing. Thiswhole thing is abominable racial dominance that has
dominated us in society for centuries.So we are not that. And I
just I just want to pause atthis point. I hope I haven't lost
you. Are you there as somethingright? Let me ask something right here,
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doctor, for I'm getting a coupleof inquiries right here. What is
your definition of intersectionality? Well,they've just learned the intersectionality. It's it's
everywhere, it's a it's uh,let me just in the book, um,
what is the Afrikana Woman's reclaiming?I say it is the one I
said pre intersectionallyitis. I took thedefinition from for example, uh, the
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what is it? Um? Gotgoogle it? Okay, and I think
it's in the I think it's gotah. Let's see. I mean here
it is. Let me just sayit. I want to say it because
yeah, it was in Google.I google it and here it is.
It says the intersection nature social organizationssuch as racists and gender and they used
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to say, I think they hada Wikipedia page. And by the way,
they have two Wikipedia's, one withmy name and the other with Afrikana
womanism. But in Wikipedia they usedto say gender like this like the feminist
would say gender, class and race. And in fact, in the major
anthology called Call and Response, thelibside Inthology of African American Literary Tradition that
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came out in nineteen ninety seven,whole missiling out of New York and Boston.
They design that whole thing of Africanawomanism as as quite different from any
other you know, female based constructs. In fact, in Call and Response,
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they said that Africana womanism is andimages read and I go back to
that that definition, but I don'twant to lose my thought here. But
they said that Africana womanism you justread that. I think they did a
good job with it. Okay.The first African American woman intellectual to formulate
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the position on Africana woman is aWalt Colonora Hudson Wings, author of the
nineteen ninety eight Groundbreak and study AfricanaWoman is Reclaiming Ourselves, taking the strong
position that Black women should not patterntheir liberation after Eurocentric feminism, but after
the historic and triumphant to woman ofAfrican descent. Hudson Wings has launched a
new critical discourse and the black woman'sliterary movement that's a major publisher Hope Mifflin
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with Calling Response and their Tribute toAll the Addict of five or seven editors.
I can't remember that was their positionor Afrikana womanism. But at any
rate, getting back to the definitionthat you find in and I don't spend
a lot of time, I justknow that it's not it's not what Africana
womanism does. That's the first thing. It just kind of like UH focuses
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on highlights. It deals with race, class, and gender. They're saying
it now in the same order,but it used to be gender racing,
class. But there is that separationat some point and then they're overlapping.
Well, Afrikana womanism is there tostay until we have resolved the problems without
male counterparts. And by the way, the Mail is this whole thing of
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of UH patriarchy is no friend ofthe mail. We we stick together for
the family. Okay. Also,I want to add to the whole thing
about betterfre Dan. She is wonderfulnow ten years after Tony Morrison's statement about
this whole thing of too much emphasison gender matters. Ten years after that
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in nineteen eighty one, now wastwenty years after Betterfree Dan's the feminist mystique.
She recants and she changes and restoresfamily centrality. You can find that
out look at her latest, herbook that followed that call a second Stage.
She's saying that we need to stopthe mail bashing. I've always said
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I'm not about male bashing. I'mnot saying that the mail is perfect,
and neither are we as women.We all have problems. But what we've
done is Black women's is spoken upand said, sweet, let's get this.
Let's get this up. Let's seeif we can't address this, because
this is not going very far,and it's not taking us very far,
is certainly not helping the family.That's where we all will speak up and
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get it straight. Okay, Somy thing is, um, we just
need to understand that we have aunique movement and Better for Dan I said
it took her twenty years, butun least she got there. She changed
from feminists I mean females in Trasherto feminists in Travelishy. She's saying the
same thing that I am saying thatTony Morrison was saying early on, and
I came even after Better for Danbecause my book brightened in starting to nineteen
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eighty five. She was an eightyone, But it was that Tony Marson
whom I loved to Tony Marson thatgot it straight, got it straight seven
to one. Okay, hold ofsecond, we keep that in the same
commentary. I've said it, yousaid it on Professor Crenshaw. It seems
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she's got a remarkable pension or runningoff of stuff that other people put up
long time ago or before she cameout with it and getting credit for it.
Yes, I particularly, I thinkI've spoken to you off the record
about my roommate, former roommate andI discussing the nineteen sixty seven submission we
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did with some black staff and otherscoops or setting up in my black history
program and all her well critical racetheory thing seems to be a spin off
in the direction, had absolutely nothingto do with what we were trying to
accomplish. What any reaction to that, well, you know, you know
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what. I don't try to keepup with anybody but myself and the Black
family for the most parts. AndI don't know so much about it.
But I can't say, let's letme just no, no, no,
I'm just saying I can say,in reference to uh, doctor Crenshaw,
that the first introduction I had ofher is the fact that she had worked
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for a Puritan with Derek Bale,the law professor at Harvard Now. He's
one of the originators of the conceptof critical race theory. And to me,
critical race theory is nothing but acivil rights continue And I'm like,
I'm still waiting. Maybe I'm slowbecause I'm busy. I got two more
books coming out this year. Uh. In fact, the one that's coming
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out another one special. I wasinvited to a special one for Rutlers again
because of demand in England, Africa, in particularly South Africa and down in
the you know all these places.Uh, you know, they're they're they're
just uh, you know, excitedabout the fights that I finished that book
last week. They got everything finalizedand this and I phob be finished until
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next July. But I write andI and I have. I have four
fifteen books out fifteen fourteen, andone is coming out this summer. That'll
be fifteen. I'm busy doing myteam four books on mto five on Africa.
Woman is a fifth month coming out, you know. Uh. And
I've done a couple of edited volumes. You're in one called Africana Paradigms Types
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of Literary Text. I did anearlier one in two thousand and seven called
Contemporary Africana Series Art an Action,a guy to Africana stories, just a
lot of stuff. In fact,I did my master's thesis at Atlanta University
on Amiria A. Baraca, andI co authored a book with Lorenzo on
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the Amria Baraka and the Black ArtsMovie. So I can't keep up with
other people on what they're doing.I'm just doing what we're supposed to do
in the academy, that is tocontribute to the academy. So I would
write white books of the people canhave some textbooks. That's what I do.
But I'm holding my breath because Ihaven't seen her speak out in support
of Derek Bale, whom she workedwith at Harvard as a junior scholar.
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I would imagine under him, youknow how you have a mentor and you
work with him or whatever. Ihaven't heard her in any way come back
and and to have something significant tosay about this critical race theory when in
fact the man who was so I'mlike a mentor maybe or something like that
with her back then, Uh,she has said nothing to support or or
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to in some way stop the peoplefrom attacking critical race theory. Now I
have a chapter in this book Licuriand Joe on critical race theory, and
I enumerate the things that that firecaused, the civil rights continuing, and
you we got the five things thatyou expect from that. And people are
constant trying to silence us, andwe know that they're trying to get just
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like the bandon books Tony marrithon onethe earlier ones A banned, okay,
but at any rate, I'm saying, why can't we have some body like
Crenshaw to say, you're on aplaying games. This critical race theory thing
that you're attacking is nothing but thetruth coming out that even the Boys made
it very clear the year before umuh Kargie Woodson's is The Miseducation of Negro
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nineteen thirty five. This is nineteenthirty three, thirty four. That boys
pretty much said, if you're notgoing to speak truth, calling it history,
call it nie. That's what itis. And and I'm a person
who I try to speak truth topower. Some people don't want the truth.
They want assimilation. And you know, it's another thing that the Boys
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talks about, this diversity. Everybody'sthe diversity, you know, just so
sickly and just diversity. Put tothat word cultural cultural diversity, not just
diversity. We want cultural diversity.That's what the boys calls for. People
don't want that. They want somethingthat the mainstream can be excuse it can
be content with. That's the veryreason why so many historians and thank god
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for people like John Blassing game U, the professor at Yale University, author
of the classic to Slave Community.When he believed blurb my immateal book,
he said, when you really thinkabout it, Hudson Wings is absolutely right.
We historians missed it. They don'twant to admits that. When uh
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cry Lincoln the Duke University, hesaid that Hutchins had challenged the most sacred
chivallets of the origins of the civilrights movement. They don't want to deal
with that. You know, whenhe endorses uh emmatel early on he said
that, uh that I had,uh you know, kind of like gone
against this whole thing of feminism andcreated a paradigm for us. And then
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with emmateal, I dropped the othershoe. People don't want to do that.
The whole thing with the wash,the black movement and with black people
and with races and everything like that, is that they want to like thee
uh let's call them the buffies.Uh. No more than the buffies,
let's call it the privilege the blacks. Uh. They were basically like you
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know, the professors and all ofthat. They were quick to assimilate in
some ways because that whole thing withemmateal was just a bit too much.
That was the true other and asI called the true otherness of American racism,
stairants in the face, in theeye. As I said, they
didn't want to deal with that becausethe dominant culture wanted something that's more palatable.
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Rosa Park's refusal to relinquish, asseen in Montgommy back in nineteen fifty
five, happened three months and threedays after emtil man Mateer happened three months
and three days and Fords August twentyeighth, nineteen fifty five. How are
you going to skip that when itwas a cost of levelers all over the
world people are speaking out against it. It's it actually ignited the civil rights
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movement. What it did for thiswhole thing with the Montgomment bus wacot is
that it's set the stage for that. But it was not a palatable case.
The dominant culture preferred something more palatable. That's it. And they're doing
the same thing with critical race theory. A lot of people are not speaking
out who need to be speaking outagainst it. She's an attorney in a
professor. I expect to hear hersupport the attorney who is one of the
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you know, originators of critical raceseries. Let's hear her say. Let's
stop at you guys. You haverespect for me, Okay, Now I'm
asking you to be very very objectiveand real about this thing. That's wrong
with speaking truth to power. That'sall that they are trying to teach,
and you want to stop it.Places like FLOWERDA and Texas, et cetera.
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Are stopping us from getting the truth. These students want to hear the
truth. They weren't thought of.Let's let her room born when we were
fighting during the civil rights movement andcertain maybe with the ancestors before that.
Why can't we tell them what reallyhappened? You have more respect for I
know when I first got here,they wanted to put me on some committee,
and I was on this committee.I went to one meeting and I
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told them, I said, letme tell you one thing This is not
a committee I want to be apart of because it's not about what I'm
doing. And you want to lumpeverything in there with what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about black people and nowracial violence and discrimination and all that,
and you want to just lump everybodywho has any little problem. Was
(33:06):
it's the same as, you knowas civil rights. No, it's not
civil rights. Was his own thing? Create your own thing? Okay.
I remember it was so funny.When I was at Delaware State University back
in the early eighties. I wasa found in chair of Block Studies there
and it was it was New York. Uh. They asked me to have
(33:29):
a conference there and you know withCreate Counsel and Religion International Affairs. Uh.
And they said, you know,they paid for everything. But when
I was there during the reception,this guy walks up to me. He
was I think he was Mexican orwhatever, and he said, you know,
Professor, I don't understand that blocksare so you know, selfish in
the way they don't want to share, you know, uh, the you
(33:52):
know, the games with civil rightsand all that, and uh, you
know, share the Pithe I excuseme, did I hear you correctly.
You're asking me to share a pieceof pie, a slice of path.
I would say that you should goto the big pie, the whole path
and get your own slice, becausethis slice I got, it's not to
(34:13):
be shared. You know. Theywant us to just kind of like thinking
too oblivion and this is this isun that took care of this for me,
okay, that that asked me todo this in United Nations. And
they were there. But I said, mister creole counselor Religion International, fair,
I sup that's you agree with me? You say I absoluted? Is?
I said? Know, I askedme to give you a piece of
my pie. I got one slice, okay, And you want black people
(34:36):
to share with you, go tothe path and get your slice. That's
what people want to do. Theywant to cover up the emphasis on blacks
and what our demands are and openup to everybody can fall in. That's
the whole thing with this thing ofdiversity. Everybody can be in, but
nobody wants to talk about what wehave to strive for for centrist here as
(34:57):
African Americans, you understand. Sothat's where I stand. Some people don't
like you know this um in awell, I'm just you know, a
person who speaks truth and and andI'm very candid, you know, candor
turning some people off, that's fine. All I want to do is make
sure I get the worried out forconsideration. And let me tell you,
(35:20):
there are people all over the worldwho know what Africana woman is in it
is who know the difference between Africanawoman is an other female based constructs than
the Africana Melanated womanism is more ofa of a terminological evolution instead of a
conceptual evolution. It at least ostensiblybecomes more inclusive. Melanated can reach beyond
(35:43):
just saying Africana. They think ofcontinental Africans and African American's, Africa,
Caribbeans and African Europeans, and thenmaybe it stops up the Canadians. That's
it. But this this melanated thingjust goes all over the world. So
that's what I changed. That fora terminological evolution. But it's the same
thing, you see, And weare all over the world trying to let
(36:06):
people understand that we have our uniquestruggles with our own set of partists and
it's not the same as those ofothers and We are not anti maile.
A lot of us have become thatbecause that's the that's the buzz thing to
do. But to me, itmakes no sense. We can't afford for
it that kind of quote unquote luxury, if you will. We need each
(36:29):
other. And I have another bookthat I'm just about finished with it to
be finished the grading papers then,because I turned my grades in on the
first week next week, we'll beout for the semester. But at any
rate, I'm doing the special book. And I won't give you the title
because I don't want somebody else tohear it and then try to get it
(36:49):
out before mine. But it isdefinitely on time. It's definitely on time,
and I hope to reach a broadaudience like that. You've heard a
different feminism, like the hood feminism. They were looking for a better terminology.
That's what that's what we needed.We had a we had something.
Now we just didn't have a terminology. And good feminists uh quote quoted opened
up by quoting me in that yougoogle it. You know, I've never
(37:13):
heard of the untail. I starton Google, you know, Uh,
there was good feminism. Well,they'll probably changed their name to hood African
womanism. But it's always been allof us. It's not a class thing.
We we we prioritize race, classand gender in our struggle, but
we don't. We don't classifiozity ofbased on class. We are in every
(37:35):
on every level in society and workingtogether, and I hope that we keep
doing that. So there you are, Valerie. Yeah, I'm really I'm
really glad that, um, doctorHuston, that you took the time out
to share that with us, because, um, you know, the reason
(37:58):
why so many of us, includingpeople in my generation and below, are
so conditioned to just think of oneversus there are you know, others that
we should consider indoor, you know, reference and educate ourselves, is because
you know, it's always being shoveddown our and and yes, it is
(38:21):
highly divisive. And I'm happy andand very grateful you know that you're still
out here speaking up because we don'tlike to hear this, thank you.
You know what I'm saying is it'snot something that you hear. We hear
feminism, feminism every single day.We see them in the streets, they
protest, they you know, everysingle thing is about that, and it
(38:44):
is always men versus women and blackversus you know. Yeah, but also
also we weren't on the on thetable. You understand that. That's what
I don't understand. It's too manyof us read, read and come away
with half information and say, kay, I'll take it. That that opening
(39:04):
quote that you had that ladies speakingor quoting from a book that came directly
from Wikipedia, I've seen it.But in that same thing, they they
just like they talked about, um, Patricia Collins, Patricia Hers Collins knows
who I am. When she cameout with Africa. When she came out
with feminism, black feminism, womanism, and beyond, this is what do
(39:25):
you mean by it? Beyond andbeyond? She did another edition and she
changed after that, you know,feminism, uh, black feminism, womanism,
and Africana woman is. Yeah,don't try to silence me, don't
try to erase me, because toomany people know what Africana woman is is.
Same thing with that quote that youjust read. Let me tell you
that quote. It has a wholesection. Just like you talked about Patricia
(39:51):
here concert there's no term that's beenuh you know, uh, you know
yet to identify us in the bookthat came out in nineteen. I'm sorry.
Two thousand and four, I dida book called Africana Woman's Literary Theory
with third with Africa World Press.I quoted her, I said, you
know what, my work had alreadybeen out for a decade. What do
you mean there's no other word outthere. You're refused to say that word
(40:15):
because you think you put all youryou know, efforts in being a black
feminist. Well, I love DelorisAldrich, Deloris Aldri heasn endown chair.
I mean, she's fabulous at EmoryUniversity. She's retired now, but she's
two time president of National Council BlackStudies. She got it um uh straight.
(40:37):
She said, why don't you justgrow up? You know, when
I presented that thing at the NationalCouncil of Black Studies, then it was
I knew de seminism wasn't working,but you know that's all that we had.
I said, then you should havecleared before me as business on my
dissertation. You should have done somethingfor us to make it, you know,
out there, But we don't.We don't get the holes in to
(41:00):
talk about And we'll set four andjump with that and now here I am
uh making it a point that thatquote that you had because that lady was
reading, why couldn't she have readthe whole thing from Wikipedia? They talked
about Hudson Wings as well as AliceWalker and being never to African scholar.
There were the three of us,but she read what she wanted to read
(41:22):
instead of the whole quote. Yougot people who are deliberately doing that,
by the way, and we needto stop that. We definitely need to
stop playing those games because there aretoo many people who know that they are
purposely u ruling out you know whowe are and what we do, okay,
(41:43):
and we need to stop that.We definitely need to stop that.
Uh. We definitely got to getyou on on social media to you the
way to get this out and toto dispel any myths and and to you
need do what out more? Justout there baby, it's out there right,
Well, that's what I mean.You know, so that it's it's
(42:05):
just at the top of her thoughtsas opposed to you. There you go,
we have to research her or youknow or we know other Um,
yeah, we're gonna have to considergetting you on and kind of talk or
think about were not Yeah, whenyou think about we were not on the
table. Tony Morrison says it righthere in nineteen seventy one, s the
(42:29):
early image of Women's Live was ofan elitist organization made up of upper middle
class white women with the concerns ofthat class and not paying much attention to
the problemable most black women. Toomuch, she says, too much placed
on gender politics. That's Tony Morrison, nineteen seventy one. Why are you
raising your hand to be a numberof an organization that didn't want you.
(42:52):
That goes back to the uh,the Suffraget movement, and the leader of
that was Susan B. Anthony whosays she wouldn't you give us lamb and
nothing for anything black. That's whatshe said, and I'm sure that that
was why, uh my one ofmy you know, role models out of
the Whales and anti Lynchen who saythat for social justice. That's why she
(43:14):
stepped away from that, because sherealized that she wasn't a welcome and so
was the Jonah two back in nineteenthI'm sorry, eighteen fifty one went to
a women's conference there in Akron,Ohio, and when she got there,
they heart that had jeered at herand snubbed her and she had to That's
that famous oration on our woman.They didn't want to hear her. She
(43:35):
had to fight to be heard.Why are you raising your hand to be
a part? And that was thesame thing that you have with the bail
hooks. You know who you knowtakes the term liberatory feminism from a white
guy, Bober, He was greatwith that. Uh uh in her in
her article U shaping feminist theory afterstarts shaping is reshaping feminist theories because it's
(43:59):
already shaped by the ones who haveyou know, and they have a right
to focus on gender. And Itold people they're they're lucky I'm not white
because I tell them what to getoff. I'm not going to change the
agenda totally. You could do whatI expect you to do, and that
is to make your your concept fitmine. You know, Chase shave it
off, be these procustin. Ifit doesn't fit, they cut the feet
(44:20):
off and then you're fitting bed.That's type of thing. They're not going
to change their agenda for you.They might because they need we are in
America democracy, the majority wins.We need some more people. They didn't
ask you to be a part allthose all that time before. For now
that they want more, they're invitingyou, but you still gotta trim it
down. It's still gotta be aboutgender. Even though they're pretending it's not
(44:43):
about gender first anymore, that's nottrue. Look at it. It's all
about gender. It hasn't changed.I just appreciate Betty for we Dan for
openly with a new book going uhand changing it and saying it's about the
family. It's about the family.It's we've got to stop bashing. Male
bashing has got to stop. Seethat's what I like as a person who
(45:04):
can admit. We cannot get veryfar unless we admit. And what I've
done with immatial and several nine documents, I've shown that there's one of the
five steps to eradicated racism, andthe first step is to acknowledge the crime.
You've got to say we've done this, I've done that, and then
(45:25):
secondly, be remorseless and I'm sorryfor it, but I don't want to
hear I'm sorry. That's the endof it. No. The next step
is atonement, and that comes inthe form of some type of compensation to
the victim. And we look atreparations as one of those possibilities. Okay.
And then the fourth is from thatGod loves that He's gonna redeem you.
(45:49):
And if God can do it,I can do it too. That's
the last step, which is forgiveness. But those are the five steps to
eradicated a racism. And you know, I like what the guy that I
ended up really spending time with atthe end, I didn't want to meet
him, mister Whitton, who representsthe murderers. I remember when you know,
uh, Judge Brown, you knowa ton of Chamblers. They're good
(46:12):
friend of man. You know,lead counseling the airs versus for this case.
Yeah, alb Albert Albert, AlbertOaks champlers. Oh yeah, he
was the lead counselor in the airversus fort this case. So all picked
me up at the airport. Iflew in from Iowa back in nineteen eighty
six to do some you know,to interview some folking Mississippi and in the
(46:32):
till and he said after we gotfrom left the courthouse, that you know,
after I got the papers things thatthey had, most of the stuff
they had destroyed, but the littlestuff they did have, I bought the
paper copies of the one dollar page, and he said, now, given
what just went down, and theywere kind of annoying to me. I
mean, it's a long time ago. Why are you asking now? So
please just give me what you have. Or we got twenty five cheeks here,
(46:54):
and half of them most of themare duplicates. I thought, I
take them all. Duplicates included youknow, if you're sometimes it's not what
you got, it's it's was impliedand what is there? Okay, so
I'll take them all. So hesaid, get on, what just happened.
I want to take you over hereto meet mister Wickens. I said,
Whitton guys who represented the murderers ofthem till he said yes. I
(47:15):
don't want to leave him. I'minterviewing the primary sources, people you know
who are descendants of the other blacks. You know, they they are blacks
themselves. I said, that's whatI want. He said, well,
you know what, you catch moreflies with honey, uh than u.
You catch more flies with honey thannneka girl. I looked at him.
(47:36):
I said that's if you want flies, which I don't. However, after
about five minutes of talking, Isaid Okay, I'll go for it.
I went on't interview him. MisterWhitton was in tears. At some point
we became very good friends. Ifound out an interviewing other blacks down there
that he had represented poor blacks inthe state of Mississippi. Oh don't know,
(47:58):
Humper into his death, I said, mister Whitton, you're doing good
and for that you received your redemptions, and for that you can get the
forgiveness for me. Don't have toask me for it. I already did
it. You know if you coulddo something like that here, because you
can't change yesterday, or you can'tchange it happened. You represented the murderers.
You gave the defining closing remarks everylance angle sax and one of you
(48:21):
has the courage to free these men, and you will, and they did.
You did that, But that's notwhat did. The state is already
set in in eighteen seventy when thefifteenth Amendments to the Constitution is ratified giving
black men, given h black menthe right to vote, and early on
before that in nineteen uh, I'msorry, in eighteen fifty seven with the
(48:42):
dread Scott decision, blocks have norights that specifically that blacks have no rights
and wife were bound to respect.That was the designing U document right there.
So there was no crime in thestay of Mississippi to kill to lynch
in matial behause blacks had no rightsand wife would under that simple examp.
The only reason they went for thish you know, mok trow was because
(49:06):
the world knew about it and theyhad to come up like they wanted to
do the right thing. But theyplayed it good, all white, all
male, you know, and theydid it. They did it up.
But I'm simply saying that we justhave to call it out. We have
to stop being coy and nice andmoreover, stop assimilating, stop agreeing,
because that's the end thing to do, and that's how you yourself will make
(49:29):
it. You're gonna leave a legacy. You're not gonna be here forever,
not of us. It's going toget ever. You have to leave a
legacy. Thank You's something that's gonnamake a difference. That's it. So
you got about two minutes. Didyou want to say something to her before
a rewrap? Thank you so much? Well, doctor, that's an interesting
(49:50):
summation. Once you get rolling,I'm not gonna get in the way of
the ball that you're send bouncing downthat hill. Thank you somebody. It's
build up a great deal of momentumbefore it hits the bottom. You shop,
you should talk so fast. It'smy talk. You wouldn't getting him
(50:15):
to take notes on back in theday when you had to do it by
hand. But they don't teach thesekids how to write anymore. I know
thing out of Tyson. See,they wouldn't be able to take notes on
your lectures, and they admiss.But then all they need to do is
go on nine. Let's see me. I've done several blogs and several people.
(50:35):
The one that's the most uh,I frequently visited. The one that
I did, I spoke for BlackHistory Month at Bolin College. Uh.
You read. You know they don'tlike to read these days. They like
to hear these ten second sound bites. Well, guess what they're getting ready
to get more than ten ten seconds. They're getting ready to get a little
(50:55):
piece. But this book that I'mdoing, it's going to be short and
sweet, and the opening chap you'regonna love it. The opening chapter is
African of Melivated Womanism. What itis? What it ain't. How about
that. It's a lovely book andit's a nice piece. They're gonna want
that book, and I'm gonna makeit sweet and I'm gonna make it affordable.
Okay, that's coming out next.There you go, thank you,
(51:22):
There you go. Um, didyou thank you so much? You're not
really on social media? Um?No, I just I haven't got that.
I mean, I do a lotof you know, interview people ask
me to do a blog. Idid a blog for even uh for George
Mason University several years ago. ButI do a lot of things, blocks
(51:45):
of people back and forth. Idid one about a month ago, this
right before spring breaking, but threeor four weeks ago with a lady who
is a theologian, uh, andshe finished her PhD at Harvard. But
she has a much visited the blogthat she asked me to do one because
she followed all my works, shehas all my books, and so I
(52:05):
did it. You know, she'sgood, Thank you, thank you.
Anyway, Yeah, I'm might youat some point right now, I'm not
yes, ma'am. Um, You'redefinitely welcome to to hang out with us.
We're gonna send about another and we'regoing back and forth, m and
I opened up the lines and allowpeople give them a chance to talk and
(52:28):
bring up topics that they want totalk about. Um by the way,
so yeah, yes, that's wherewe are in this showIn hold on did
you find uh mister Delores Brown online? Here on with us? I want
her the two of the ladies,uh missus Brown and doctor welliams uh to
(52:52):
hook up. Is a widow ofone of the original Tuskegee Airman and most
recently for the Tuskegee Airman's Institute.She is on top of it. And
(53:15):
also here's another thing for you.One of her close friends was a colleague
of her husband. That was ChappieJames, later of the Tuskegee Yarman,
who wound up four star General incommand of NORAD North American Air Defense Command,
(53:36):
and she was his executive assistant.She also will her husband you might
want to talk about what he did. The late Husbandry Brown Lary was CEO
for Kaiser Permanente in California. Heentered the Tuskege Yarman under a special civilian
(54:00):
program of flight training when he wasseventeen years old and wound up serving in
World War Two. Became an officer, took advantage of the gi Bill owned,
got himself educated, and he woundup CEO for one of the major
medical operations in the country. Ithink it was sixteen some hospitals in California.
(54:30):
So, yeah, that's somebody youneed to talk to. And I
think they're thirteen original members still leftalive in the oldest one hundred and eight.
That's wonderful. You know. Ihad the occasion I used to write
the Smoke and Joe Frazier, youknow, and I remember when they had
this big you know, demonstration becauseyou know, after he came back from
(54:53):
that Muhammad Ali, they had thatfight in Manila. Uh, and he
bought all this prim Philadelphia, Yes, and he bought all that property in
northern Phila. They developed into ahuge place, you know, with all
these fabulous homes, you know,several hundred thousand dollars homes. And those
(55:13):
people didn't even know that they hadtaken that property from Joe. And at
that time, you know, um, when I was, I was there,
I was one of the speakers.Uh. We had also Bill Constant,
he was there and uh we justhad a great time, you know.
But I met a Tuskeget airman.Uh So the Tuskeget period. You
talk about the Tuskegee thing with theshipless case, and then you talk about
(55:37):
the airman. So that word Tuskegeeis a buzzword for me, you know.
So I and in fact, Ihave a picture of him in the
book my second inatial book called theDefenditive Emmetial, you know. So,
uh he's he's right there in thatbook Hunting. He's right there. So
yeah, I would love to meether at some point for her observation,
(56:00):
that observation and the airmen they weren'treally connected, No, they weren't connected.
Just the word Tuskey Tuskege Alabama meanslotany with Tuskey Institute, you know,
and with Tuskey Airman, the TuskeyGaciphilis case. You know all that.
You know, it's important to mejust to I make my own little
(56:22):
connection there the buzz for me.Yeah. See. One of the things
is it was an educational institution,and they had facilities, starting with what
they set up way back when forthe students who were not going to be
treated with respect in anybody's local medicalfacilities, which were very completely lacking back
(56:50):
then, so they set up amedical facility for the students, and folks
being folks back then, they tookadvantage of them or a lot of things
that they couldn't not have gotten awaywith at a mainstream facility ran, which
is how they got caught up withdoing those observations. The Judge Joe Brown
(57:17):
Show presented by Valerie Denise Jones UncensoredTruth with a legal Twist, Friday,
four pm Eastern Standard Times nine twonine four seven seven one seven four.
Visit Miss Valerie Denise Jones dot comfor details. I want to know more
(57:42):
about big media. Tune in everyTuesday and Friday at four pm Eastern,
and don't forget to subscribe to ourchannels.
I hope you're enjoying this big exclusive. Don't forget to subscribe to this channel.
Opportunity for Al Qaida and isis toslip folk across the border also to
sneak in. There are about twentyfour hundred Stinger missiles that the Reagan administration
(00:23):
sold through Osama bin Laden to therebels in Afghanistan, and they're still unaccounted
for, and that's a good opportunityfor them to be smuggled back into the
country. And somebody with one ofthese shoulder fired things to walk and station
themselves outside of an airport ere intheir approach to a runway or the takeoff
(00:50):
section or into the runway and shootone down their heat seeking and they look
like old World War two bazookas MamaBond. Somebody's shoulder a general Aiman.
When you get a tone, pressthe trigger, allen comes an aircraft.
(01:11):
Really interesting stoke, and nobody seemsto give a damn. Well, we're
definitely going to talk about it becauseI want to hear what you guys gotta
say, Doctor Husson is that Ialways wanted to ask her. I think
I understand womanism, but I don't, and I wanted to know the difference
(01:34):
between that and feminism. I knowthere's a huge difference, but anyway,
here we go while I look forher. You may have heard the word
intersectionality thrown around a lot lately.A black woman coined the term in nineteen
eighty nine to highlight the overlapping waysblack women are oppressed every day. Her
name is Professor Kimberly Crenshaw, andher work is especially relevant today because even
(01:56):
though intersectionality is a buzzword these days, feminism still doesn't consider them. Many
ways, black women and other womenof color experience oppression, and that makes
a lot of people feel marginalized bythe movement that's supposed to fight for them.
Despite being historically left out of feminism, black women have always been doing
the work creating their own political andsocial movements that don't depend on traditional feminism
(02:19):
at all. Writer Alice Walker coinedthe term womanists in nineteen eighty three.
Womanism is a social framework that separatesitself from feminism and centers black women.
Here's how scholar Lay Phillips versus.Unlike feminism, and despite its name,
womanism does not emphasize or privilege genderor sexism. Rather, it elevates all
sites and forms of oppression to alevel of equal concern and action. While
(02:43):
scholars have drawn clear lines between whatseparates womanism and feminism, a lot of
Black women fall somewhere in between andidentify as black feminists. But as Professor
Patricia Hill Collins argues, there's notreally a term that represents the fullness of
what Black women now call black feminismand womanism. Regardless of how you identify,
Traditional feminism has always fallen short.It's forgotten how police brutality disproportionately affects
(03:08):
Black women, that African American andLatino women continue to make less than literally
everyone else, and that murders oftrans women of color are underreported and forgotten.
The good news is womanists and blackfeminists are more visible the safe and
they're helping to change the way peoplelook at feminism in the mainstream. Remember,
(03:29):
you don't have to be black topractice intersectionality in your activism, and
you definitely don't have to be awoman, because if your activism leave some
women out, who are you reallyfighting for? What up? Y'all?
This is police they owned with theroute. We are dedicated to bringing you
more series all right, copyright oneof research and commentary in all things.
(03:55):
But shout out to the route umfor making that clear. Doctor Hudson actually
did a video or I think shewas part of something that featured her.
I wasn't clear because I noticed thatit says something about black feminism or Africana
womanism. Yeah, it says featuringdoctor cleanor huss and Weeds. Okay,
(04:16):
great son of course, yes,okay. Also also look for miss Delores
Brown. She's advised she's listening inthat's the lady with former will brought to
the Institute. Yes, she's on, Yes, she could press the one
(04:40):
how are you? And also theother thing too is Professor Crenshaw operates out
of the UCLA Department of Minority Affairs, and I claim a personal interest in
that because doctor Ween's and tell youabout people standing on other people's shoulders,
(05:05):
and I recognize in her critical racetheory thing a document I helped draft in
nineteen sixty seven for the Minority Affairsdepartment. It was located in Campbell Hall,
and I quite literally lost some personalfriends who were killed as a result
(05:27):
of what was going on in astruggle over control of that department. I
visited them some years ago, probablybefore she got involved with them, and
I was appalled to see that thestruggle, death, and sacrifice are so
many that I knew back in thesixties had morphed into a degeneracy where it
(05:51):
was sitting around on leather couches,sipping sharply and nibbling cheese and crackers and
engaged in some of the most inanebsdiscussions I had heard in a long time.
A friend of mine, who washelping the process out back in the
(06:12):
sixties, was also present with me, and he was rather appalled as I
was, about the way things hadgone. So yeah, I say that
let's go, ladies. Welcome,Welcome, doctor Glenora Hudson Williams. How
(06:35):
are you. I'm doing just fine. It's always so good coming on show.
But I will say that it soundslike you know very little about me.
And the fear of Africana woman ismmthat's been around for over three decades.
I'm really surprised, quite frankly.First of all, Africana woman is
not and I want to read froman article that I wrote back in the
(06:59):
nineteen eighties. Now this is actuallya launched Africa woman is in late eighties,
but in the early nineteen nineties,nineteen ninety three, my first book
Africana Not African and Not just WomanismAfrican woman Is Africana Womanism was released,
but bet was publishers back in nineteenninety three, the same year that Tony
(07:24):
Morrison received Adobe Appliance for Literature ofthe first African American Woman, Nobel Laurette.
That was the same year that nineteenninety three that my book came out.
And by the way, I've mentionedin Tony Morrison because I old co
authored the first book on Tony Morrisonin nineteen ninety At any rate, in
(07:44):
that book, the first chapter makesvery clear two things what Africana womanism is
and then also what Africana womanism isnot. And I want to read the
the quote that comes from that,so that you know when you introduced me,
introduced me as the Africana womanist conceptualizer. I'm not an Africana I'm not
(08:09):
a womanist. I'm not a blackfeminist, okay. And if once we
get that, then we got weon our way. Africana woman isn't,
by the way, is also global. You can google and see the various
venues that I have spoken on.In fact, the most recent one was
the keynote address at the University ofZimbabwe about a year and a half ago.
(08:31):
I did the keynote address and alsothe same thing at the University of
Iowa, where I got my PhD. I did the keynotes for the fiftieth
anniversary of the Black Studiest Problem.There I finished and of course my dissertation
was on the flip side of thecoin, the first to establish the lunchion
of Emmettil as a true catalyst ofthe civil rights movement. That was my
(08:54):
four doctoral dissertation nineteen eighty eight.But it was that same time, in
that three year period that I launchedthe Africana womanism concept, which is the
flip side of the coin and Africanor womanism. I want to read this
passage. I will telling you aboutquote neither an outgrowth nor addendum to feminism.
(09:15):
Fricana womanism is not to Black feminism, not African feminism or Walkers womanism
that some Africana women have come toembrace. African or womanism is an ideology
created and designed for all women ofAfrican descent. It is grounded in African
(09:35):
culture and therefore necessarily focuses on theunique experiences, struggles, needs, and
desires of Africana women. It criticallyaddresses the dynamics of the conflict between the
mainstream feminist, the Black feminist,the African feminist, and the Africana womanist.
The conclusion is that Africana womanism andits agenda are unique and separate from
(09:58):
both white feminism and Black feminism.And more over, to the extent of
name in in particular, Africana womanismdiffers from African feminism. So you're talking
about a different, completely different paradigm. In fact, the Universe Zimbabwe in
two thousand and ten hosted the firstInternational African Womanism Conference and the one that
(10:22):
I just told you about that Idid the keyno address at both of those
venues, the ones they just hadin two thousand and twenty one or twenty
two. I believe that was onwomen. And so, yeah, Afrikana
woman is really out there. Andh and by the way, yes,
intersectionality is a buzzword. But letme just say this one thing, Africana
(10:46):
womanism. And when I talked aboutthe interconnectivity of race, class, a
gender, the prioritization race class,agender that came out before the term that
Crenshall introduced intersection anality, which hedid in nineteen eighty nine. I was
already doing it in nineteen eighty five, eighty six, eighty seven, eighty
(11:07):
eight, and eighty nine. Infact, two articles came out in major
black journals in eighty nine, onein the Western Journal Black Studies called Culture
and Agenda Conflicts in Academia Critical Issuesfor Africana Women's Studies, and the other
on them came out in the journalBlack Sets, both of them in eighty
(11:28):
nine. Talking about the as Ithink it is entitled um Africana Womanism the
Tripartite Plight of Black Women. Ijust want to say that I hardly know
a white woman who can tell mewhat to do and how to think and
how to act, because that's whatAfricana woman is. It is it's a
(11:50):
paradigm of family centered paradigm, notfemale centered. And that was the basis,
as you know, for feminism.The major person doing this the peak
of the civil rights movement, Bettyfree Dan, with the feminist mystique.
Her whole thing was family centrality andgender with white, suburban white women in
(12:11):
the Chicago area who are bored withhousehold drudgery. It's interesting just to get
off for a minute. I quiteenjoyed your previous speaker because when she talked
about cooking and all that, that'swhat the Afrikana woman is does. She
does it all. When you lookat the eighteen characteristics of the Afrikana woman
is she's mothering and nurturing, soshe's gotten to know how to cook,
(12:31):
you know. And what she wassaying, you know, I said,
wow, this is nothing, butthe Afrikana woman is in action, because
that's a piece of it. Theother pieces that we're always in concert with
the male and the struggle. Wecan't afford the luxury of dividing. The
gender divide is not our things.It never was and it really shouldn't be
in at this point. It's race, class and gender in that order.
(12:54):
Race first. But at any rate, what I'm saying is that we really
have to stand that we need tocreate our own paradigms. Why are we
piggybacking on somebody else's name. Whenyou call yourself a black feminist, a
problem is you're using the word feminismwith all of its connotations and denotations,
all of the particulars of what itmeans feminis when they talk about our families
(13:16):
in tracts, but female centrality,you know, we can't deal with that.
When they talk about I'm moving fromthe home place to the workplace,
We've always been in the workplace,So that's not our agenda. When they
talk about breaking silence and founding voice, I hardly know a silent black woman.
So why are we piggybacking off ofsomeone else's name and naming ourselves after
(13:37):
them when in fact we're with theblueprint. What we're doing in reality is
duplicating a duplicate And I found thatvery odd, and so that's why I
created my own name for us.I didn't create african a woman isn't in
and of itself. I simply observedAfricana woman throughout the ages all over the
world, and how we go aboutliving who we are, how we go
(14:01):
about ideally lives confronting those types ofobstacles, some of those same things that
our male companions have as well.And so what I did was I named
and then defined and culminated with refininga paradigm relative to who we are and
how we go about ourdeally lives.That's that's what I did. That was
(14:22):
the hardest thing to get women tostop calling themselves or naming themselves up for
somebody else, because people just assumethat if you're any form of a feminist,
if you're any kind of feminists,that you're dealing with femal centrality,
that you're dealing with all those things, and those are not our priorities.
Okay, I don't want to justkeep talking about pausitive for men, but
(14:43):
I hope you understand what Africana womanisn't is. It's different Alice Walker says,
or woman is chief defines or awoman. And by the way,
I have five books out on Africanor womanism. I did three books doing
the pandemic. The first one wasthe reprint of After Account, A Woman's
(15:03):
Reclaiming Ourselves, because that publisher,after decades in publication, went out of
print, and so I got incontact with the Rutledge and Rutledge did a
reprint with it's the fifth edition withfive new chapters. And by the way,
one of those chapters, just toclassy what I'm talking about, is
(15:26):
entitled is Chapter ten. I believeso chapter eleven. It's called Africana womanism's
race, class, and gender preintersectionality. It came before and in all
my works in the eighties and ninetiesand two thousand and still it's interconec it's
(15:48):
a collectivity. It's uh connectivity orconnectiveness or interconnectiveness. It was never called
intersectionality because intersectionality almost suggests that youknow, things come together and at some
point it kind of branches off andthen you reconnect. Well, we can't
(16:08):
afford to break off. We arealways connected. We are interconnected or like
Fabric Waldwyn fabric. So I don'tbuy the terminology even and by the way,
I was talking about Betterfrey Dan,she is the person for dealing with
feminism. Ten years after her feministmistique was launched in nineteen sixty one,
(16:32):
Tony Morrison wrote a fabulous article inNew York Times that was nineteen seventy one.
But the black woman thinks about thewomen's lib movement, and she made
it very clear, and she culminatedwith the fact that too much emphasis is
placed on gender gender issues, toomuch so that lets you know that she's
(16:55):
not really she was not really afeminist. But at any rate, what
I was saying is that Uh.The Africana Womanism came out first in twenty
twenty. The following year two thousandand twenty one, Africana Paradigms, practices
and literary texts evoke in Social Change, in which doctor I'm sorry, Judge
(17:15):
Joe Brown wrote the forward to that. Uh, that came out. And
then the following year, um,and that was with of course a US
publisher, Um Kendall Hunt. Iwas invited to do that, uh,
particularly a book. And then thethird book for doing the pandemic is called
Africana Nonated Womanism in it Together andthey came out with Cambridge Scholars. Just
(17:38):
to tell you that I've been workingvery hard, but I just want you
to know that Alice Walker's definition ofafrican Or womanism, but let you know,
I mean not Africana, but ofwomanism. That lets you know that's
not my thing. It couldn't bein fact what she says. And I
just want to read from that firstchat on african Or womanism. She says
(18:03):
Walker in the introduction to her bookIn Search of Our Mother's Garden, she
says, a womanness is a blackquote a black feminist or feminist of color.
We'll see right away. We're notthe same who loves and other women
sexually and or non sexually, appreciatethem, prefers women's culture, and who
sometimes loved individual men sexually and ornon sexually, committed to survival and wholeness
(18:30):
of entire people, male or female. I like that part, but then
she goes back. Womanness is thefeminist as purple to lavender. You're talking
about only a shade differentiation. Afrikindof woman is insponded more than a shade
differentiation, so entirely different agenda.It is naming our sales, and we
have to and African cosmology to callit. No mo It isn't with the
proper naming of a thing that itcomes into existence, etc. All of
(18:55):
those designing things that you expecting.It happens, but you have to call
it out first, name yourself.Don't make name yourself after somebody unless there's
something about you that's very much akinto it. And black women, let's
face it, we cannot deal withthe battle of the sexes because we are
(19:15):
battling with this whole thing. Thiswhole thing is abominable racial dominance that has
dominated us in society for centuries.So we are not that. And I
just I just want to pause atthis point. I hope I haven't lost
you. Are you there as somethingright? Let me ask something right here,
(19:44):
doctor, for I'm getting a coupleof inquiries right here. What is
your definition of intersectionality? Well,they've just learned the intersectionality. It's it's
everywhere, it's a it's uh,let me just in the book, um,
what is the Afrikana Woman's reclaiming?I say it is the one I
said pre intersectionallyitis. I took thedefinition from for example, uh, the
(20:11):
what is it? Um? Gotgoogle it? Okay, and I think
it's in the I think it's gotah. Let's see. I mean here
it is. Let me just sayit. I want to say it because
yeah, it was in Google.I google it and here it is.
It says the intersection nature social organizationssuch as racists and gender and they used
(20:36):
to say, I think they hada Wikipedia page. And by the way,
they have two Wikipedia's, one withmy name and the other with Afrikana
womanism. But in Wikipedia they usedto say gender like this like the feminist
would say gender, class and race. And in fact, in the major
anthology called Call and Response, thelibside Inthology of African American Literary Tradition that
(20:56):
came out in nineteen ninety seven,whole missiling out of New York and Boston.
They design that whole thing of Africanawomanism as as quite different from any
other you know, female based constructs. In fact, in Call and Response,
(21:18):
they said that Africana womanism is andimages read and I go back to
that that definition, but I don'twant to lose my thought here. But
they said that Africana womanism you justread that. I think they did a
good job with it. Okay.The first African American woman intellectual to formulate
(21:41):
the position on Africana woman is aWalt Colonora Hudson Wings, author of the
nineteen ninety eight Groundbreak and study AfricanaWoman is Reclaiming Ourselves, taking the strong
position that Black women should not patterntheir liberation after Eurocentric feminism, but after
the historic and triumphant to woman ofAfrican descent. Hudson Wings has launched a
new critical discourse and the black woman'sliterary movement that's a major publisher Hope Mifflin
(22:06):
with Calling Response and their Tribute toAll the Addict of five or seven editors.
I can't remember that was their positionor Afrikana womanism. But at any
rate, getting back to the definitionthat you find in and I don't spend
a lot of time, I justknow that it's not it's not what Africana
womanism does. That's the first thing. It just kind of like UH focuses
(22:27):
on highlights. It deals with race, class, and gender. They're saying
it now in the same order,but it used to be gender racing,
class. But there is that separationat some point and then they're overlapping.
Well, Afrikana womanism is there tostay until we have resolved the problems without
male counterparts. And by the way, the Mail is this whole thing of
(22:52):
of UH patriarchy is no friend ofthe mail. We we stick together for
the family. Okay. Also,I want to add to the whole thing
about betterfre Dan. She is wonderfulnow ten years after Tony Morrison's statement about
this whole thing of too much emphasison gender matters. Ten years after that
(23:17):
in nineteen eighty one, now wastwenty years after Betterfree Dan's the feminist mystique.
She recants and she changes and restoresfamily centrality. You can find that
out look at her latest, herbook that followed that call a second Stage.
She's saying that we need to stopthe mail bashing. I've always said
(23:38):
I'm not about male bashing. I'mnot saying that the mail is perfect,
and neither are we as women.We all have problems. But what we've
done is Black women's is spoken upand said, sweet, let's get this.
Let's get this up. Let's seeif we can't address this, because
this is not going very far,and it's not taking us very far,
is certainly not helping the family.That's where we all will speak up and
(23:59):
get it straight. Okay, Somy thing is, um, we just
need to understand that we have aunique movement and Better for Dan I said
it took her twenty years, butun least she got there. She changed
from feminists I mean females in Trasherto feminists in Travelishy. She's saying the
same thing that I am saying thatTony Morrison was saying early on, and
I came even after Better for Danbecause my book brightened in starting to nineteen
(24:25):
eighty five. She was an eightyone, But it was that Tony Marson
whom I loved to Tony Marson thatgot it straight, got it straight seven
to one. Okay, hold ofsecond, we keep that in the same
commentary. I've said it, yousaid it on Professor Crenshaw. It seems
(24:45):
she's got a remarkable pension or runningoff of stuff that other people put up
long time ago or before she cameout with it and getting credit for it.
Yes, I particularly, I thinkI've spoken to you off the record
about my roommate, former roommate andI discussing the nineteen sixty seven submission we
(25:07):
did with some black staff and otherscoops or setting up in my black history
program and all her well critical racetheory thing seems to be a spin off
in the direction, had absolutely nothingto do with what we were trying to
accomplish. What any reaction to that, well, you know, you know
(25:37):
what. I don't try to keepup with anybody but myself and the Black
family for the most parts. AndI don't know so much about it.
But I can't say, let's letme just no, no, no,
I'm just saying I can say,in reference to uh, doctor Crenshaw,
that the first introduction I had ofher is the fact that she had worked
(25:59):
for a Puritan with Derek Bale,the law professor at Harvard Now. He's
one of the originators of the conceptof critical race theory. And to me,
critical race theory is nothing but acivil rights continue And I'm like,
I'm still waiting. Maybe I'm slowbecause I'm busy. I got two more
books coming out this year. Uh. In fact, the one that's coming
(26:19):
out another one special. I wasinvited to a special one for Rutlers again
because of demand in England, Africa, in particularly South Africa and down in
the you know all these places.Uh, you know, they're they're they're
just uh, you know, excitedabout the fights that I finished that book
last week. They got everything finalizedand this and I phob be finished until
(26:41):
next July. But I write andI and I have. I have four
fifteen books out fifteen fourteen, andone is coming out this summer. That'll
be fifteen. I'm busy doing myteam four books on mto five on Africa.
Woman is a fifth month coming out, you know. Uh. And
I've done a couple of edited volumes. You're in one called Africana Paradigms Types
(27:02):
of Literary Text. I did anearlier one in two thousand and seven called
Contemporary Africana Series Art an Action,a guy to Africana stories, just a
lot of stuff. In fact,I did my master's thesis at Atlanta University
on Amiria A. Baraca, andI co authored a book with Lorenzo on
(27:22):
the Amria Baraka and the Black ArtsMovie. So I can't keep up with
other people on what they're doing.I'm just doing what we're supposed to do
in the academy, that is tocontribute to the academy. So I would
write white books of the people canhave some textbooks. That's what I do.
But I'm holding my breath because Ihaven't seen her speak out in support
of Derek Bale, whom she workedwith at Harvard as a junior scholar.
(27:45):
I would imagine under him, youknow how you have a mentor and you
work with him or whatever. Ihaven't heard her in any way come back
and and to have something significant tosay about this critical race theory when in
fact the man who was so I'mlike a mentor maybe or something like that
with her back then, Uh,she has said nothing to support or or
(28:08):
to in some way stop the peoplefrom attacking critical race theory. Now I
have a chapter in this book Licuriand Joe on critical race theory, and
I enumerate the things that that firecaused, the civil rights continuing, and
you we got the five things thatyou expect from that. And people are
constant trying to silence us, andwe know that they're trying to get just
(28:30):
like the bandon books Tony marrithon onethe earlier ones A banned, okay,
but at any rate, I'm saying, why can't we have some body like
Crenshaw to say, you're on aplaying games. This critical race theory thing
that you're attacking is nothing but thetruth coming out that even the Boys made
it very clear the year before umuh Kargie Woodson's is The Miseducation of Negro
(28:53):
nineteen thirty five. This is nineteenthirty three, thirty four. That boys
pretty much said, if you're notgoing to speak truth, calling it history,
call it nie. That's what itis. And and I'm a person
who I try to speak truth topower. Some people don't want the truth.
They want assimilation. And you know, it's another thing that the Boys
(29:15):
talks about, this diversity. Everybody'sthe diversity, you know, just so
sickly and just diversity. Put tothat word cultural cultural diversity, not just
diversity. We want cultural diversity.That's what the boys calls for. People
don't want that. They want somethingthat the mainstream can be excuse it can
be content with. That's the veryreason why so many historians and thank god
(29:41):
for people like John Blassing game U, the professor at Yale University, author
of the classic to Slave Community.When he believed blurb my immateal book,
he said, when you really thinkabout it, Hudson Wings is absolutely right.
We historians missed it. They don'twant to admits that. When uh
(30:02):
cry Lincoln the Duke University, hesaid that Hutchins had challenged the most sacred
chivallets of the origins of the civilrights movement. They don't want to deal
with that. You know, whenhe endorses uh emmatel early on he said
that, uh that I had,uh you know, kind of like gone
against this whole thing of feminism andcreated a paradigm for us. And then
(30:22):
with emmateal, I dropped the othershoe. People don't want to do that.
The whole thing with the wash,the black movement and with black people
and with races and everything like that, is that they want to like thee
uh let's call them the buffies.Uh. No more than the buffies,
let's call it the privilege the blacks. Uh. They were basically like you
(30:47):
know, the professors and all ofthat. They were quick to assimilate in
some ways because that whole thing withemmateal was just a bit too much.
That was the true other and asI called the true otherness of American racism,
stairants in the face, in theeye. As I said, they
didn't want to deal with that becausethe dominant culture wanted something that's more palatable.
(31:11):
Rosa Park's refusal to relinquish, asseen in Montgommy back in nineteen fifty
five, happened three months and threedays after emtil man Mateer happened three months
and three days and Fords August twentyeighth, nineteen fifty five. How are
you going to skip that when itwas a cost of levelers all over the
world people are speaking out against it. It's it actually ignited the civil rights
(31:33):
movement. What it did for thiswhole thing with the Montgomment bus wacot is
that it's set the stage for that. But it was not a palatable case.
The dominant culture preferred something more palatable. That's it. And they're doing
the same thing with critical race theory. A lot of people are not speaking
out who need to be speaking outagainst it. She's an attorney in a
professor. I expect to hear hersupport the attorney who is one of the
(32:00):
you know, originators of critical raceseries. Let's hear her say. Let's
stop at you guys. You haverespect for me, Okay, Now I'm
asking you to be very very objectiveand real about this thing. That's wrong
with speaking truth to power. That'sall that they are trying to teach,
and you want to stop it.Places like FLOWERDA and Texas, et cetera.
(32:22):
Are stopping us from getting the truth. These students want to hear the
truth. They weren't thought of.Let's let her room born when we were
fighting during the civil rights movement andcertain maybe with the ancestors before that.
Why can't we tell them what reallyhappened? You have more respect for I
know when I first got here,they wanted to put me on some committee,
and I was on this committee.I went to one meeting and I
(32:45):
told them, I said, letme tell you one thing This is not
a committee I want to be apart of because it's not about what I'm
doing. And you want to lumpeverything in there with what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about black people and nowracial violence and discrimination and all that,
and you want to just lump everybodywho has any little problem. Was
(33:06):
it's the same as, you knowas civil rights. No, it's not
civil rights. Was his own thing? Create your own thing? Okay.
I remember it was so funny.When I was at Delaware State University back
in the early eighties. I wasa found in chair of Block Studies there
and it was it was New York. Uh. They asked me to have
(33:29):
a conference there and you know withCreate Counsel and Religion International Affairs. Uh.
And they said, you know,they paid for everything. But when
I was there during the reception,this guy walks up to me. He
was I think he was Mexican orwhatever, and he said, you know,
Professor, I don't understand that blocksare so you know, selfish in
the way they don't want to share, you know, uh, the you
(33:52):
know, the games with civil rightsand all that, and uh, you
know, share the Pithe I excuseme, did I hear you correctly.
You're asking me to share a pieceof pie, a slice of path.
I would say that you should goto the big pie, the whole path
and get your own slice, becausethis slice I got, it's not to
(34:13):
be shared. You know. Theywant us to just kind of like thinking
too oblivion and this is this isun that took care of this for me,
okay, that that asked me todo this in United Nations. And
they were there. But I said, mister creole counselor Religion International, fair,
I sup that's you agree with me? You say I absoluted? Is?
I said? Know, I askedme to give you a piece of
my pie. I got one slice, okay, And you want black people
(34:36):
to share with you, go tothe path and get your slice. That's
what people want to do. Theywant to cover up the emphasis on blacks
and what our demands are and openup to everybody can fall in. That's
the whole thing with this thing ofdiversity. Everybody can be in, but
nobody wants to talk about what wehave to strive for for centrist here as
(34:57):
African Americans, you understand. Sothat's where I stand. Some people don't
like you know this um in awell, I'm just you know, a
person who speaks truth and and andI'm very candid, you know, candor
turning some people off, that's fine. All I want to do is make
sure I get the worried out forconsideration. And let me tell you,
(35:20):
there are people all over the worldwho know what Africana woman is in it
is who know the difference between Africanawoman is an other female based constructs than
the Africana Melanated womanism is more ofa of a terminological evolution instead of a
conceptual evolution. It at least ostensiblybecomes more inclusive. Melanated can reach beyond
(35:43):
just saying Africana. They think ofcontinental Africans and African American's, Africa,
Caribbeans and African Europeans, and thenmaybe it stops up the Canadians. That's
it. But this this melanated thingjust goes all over the world. So
that's what I changed. That fora terminological evolution. But it's the same
thing, you see, And weare all over the world trying to let
(36:06):
people understand that we have our uniquestruggles with our own set of partists and
it's not the same as those ofothers and We are not anti maile.
A lot of us have become thatbecause that's the that's the buzz thing to
do. But to me, itmakes no sense. We can't afford for
it that kind of quote unquote luxury, if you will. We need each
(36:29):
other. And I have another bookthat I'm just about finished with it to
be finished the grading papers then,because I turned my grades in on the
first week next week, we'll beout for the semester. But at any
rate, I'm doing the special book. And I won't give you the title
because I don't want somebody else tohear it and then try to get it
(36:49):
out before mine. But it isdefinitely on time. It's definitely on time,
and I hope to reach a broadaudience like that. You've heard a
different feminism, like the hood feminism. They were looking for a better terminology.
That's what that's what we needed.We had a we had something.
Now we just didn't have a terminology. And good feminists uh quote quoted opened
up by quoting me in that yougoogle it. You know, I've never
(37:13):
heard of the untail. I starton Google, you know, Uh,
there was good feminism. Well,they'll probably changed their name to hood African
womanism. But it's always been allof us. It's not a class thing.
We we we prioritize race, classand gender in our struggle, but
we don't. We don't classifiozity ofbased on class. We are in every
(37:35):
on every level in society and workingtogether, and I hope that we keep
doing that. So there you are, Valerie. Yeah, I'm really I'm
really glad that, um, doctorHuston, that you took the time out
to share that with us, because, um, you know, the reason
(37:58):
why so many of us, includingpeople in my generation and below, are
so conditioned to just think of oneversus there are you know, others that
we should consider indoor, you know, reference and educate ourselves, is because
you know, it's always being shoveddown our and and yes, it is
(38:21):
highly divisive. And I'm happy andand very grateful you know that you're still
out here speaking up because we don'tlike to hear this, thank you.
You know what I'm saying is it'snot something that you hear. We hear
feminism, feminism every single day.We see them in the streets, they
protest, they you know, everysingle thing is about that, and it
(38:44):
is always men versus women and blackversus you know. Yeah, but also
also we weren't on the on thetable. You understand that. That's what
I don't understand. It's too manyof us read, read and come away
with half information and say, kay, I'll take it. That that opening
(39:04):
quote that you had that ladies speakingor quoting from a book that came directly
from Wikipedia, I've seen it.But in that same thing, they they
just like they talked about, um, Patricia Collins, Patricia Hers Collins knows
who I am. When she cameout with Africa. When she came out
with feminism, black feminism, womanism, and beyond, this is what do
(39:25):
you mean by it? Beyond andbeyond? She did another edition and she
changed after that, you know,feminism, uh, black feminism, womanism,
and Africana woman is. Yeah,don't try to silence me, don't
try to erase me, because toomany people know what Africana woman is is.
Same thing with that quote that youjust read. Let me tell you
that quote. It has a wholesection. Just like you talked about Patricia
(39:51):
here concert there's no term that's beenuh you know, uh, you know
yet to identify us in the bookthat came out in nineteen. I'm sorry.
Two thousand and four, I dida book called Africana Woman's Literary Theory
with third with Africa World Press.I quoted her, I said, you
know what, my work had alreadybeen out for a decade. What do
you mean there's no other word outthere. You're refused to say that word
(40:15):
because you think you put all youryou know, efforts in being a black
feminist. Well, I love DelorisAldrich, Deloris Aldri heasn endown chair.
I mean, she's fabulous at EmoryUniversity. She's retired now, but she's
two time president of National Council BlackStudies. She got it um uh straight.
(40:37):
She said, why don't you justgrow up? You know, when
I presented that thing at the NationalCouncil of Black Studies, then it was
I knew de seminism wasn't working,but you know that's all that we had.
I said, then you should havecleared before me as business on my
dissertation. You should have done somethingfor us to make it, you know,
out there, But we don't.We don't get the holes in to
(41:00):
talk about And we'll set four andjump with that and now here I am
uh making it a point that thatquote that you had because that lady was
reading, why couldn't she have readthe whole thing from Wikipedia? They talked
about Hudson Wings as well as AliceWalker and being never to African scholar.
There were the three of us,but she read what she wanted to read
(41:22):
instead of the whole quote. Yougot people who are deliberately doing that,
by the way, and we needto stop that. We definitely need to
stop playing those games because there aretoo many people who know that they are
purposely u ruling out you know whowe are and what we do, okay,
(41:43):
and we need to stop that.We definitely need to stop that.
Uh. We definitely got to getyou on on social media to you the
way to get this out and toto dispel any myths and and to you
need do what out more? Justout there baby, it's out there right,
Well, that's what I mean.You know, so that it's it's
(42:05):
just at the top of her thoughtsas opposed to you. There you go,
we have to research her or youknow or we know other Um,
yeah, we're gonna have to considergetting you on and kind of talk or
think about were not Yeah, whenyou think about we were not on the
table. Tony Morrison says it righthere in nineteen seventy one, s the
(42:29):
early image of Women's Live was ofan elitist organization made up of upper middle
class white women with the concerns ofthat class and not paying much attention to
the problemable most black women. Toomuch, she says, too much placed
on gender politics. That's Tony Morrison, nineteen seventy one. Why are you
raising your hand to be a numberof an organization that didn't want you.
(42:52):
That goes back to the uh,the Suffraget movement, and the leader of
that was Susan B. Anthony whosays she wouldn't you give us lamb and
nothing for anything black. That's whatshe said, and I'm sure that that
was why, uh my one ofmy you know, role models out of
the Whales and anti Lynchen who saythat for social justice. That's why she
(43:14):
stepped away from that, because sherealized that she wasn't a welcome and so
was the Jonah two back in nineteenthI'm sorry, eighteen fifty one went to
a women's conference there in Akron,Ohio, and when she got there,
they heart that had jeered at herand snubbed her and she had to That's
that famous oration on our woman.They didn't want to hear her. She
(43:35):
had to fight to be heard.Why are you raising your hand to be
a part? And that was thesame thing that you have with the bail
hooks. You know who you knowtakes the term liberatory feminism from a white
guy, Bober, He was greatwith that. Uh uh in her in
her article U shaping feminist theory afterstarts shaping is reshaping feminist theories because it's
(43:59):
already shaped by the ones who haveyou know, and they have a right
to focus on gender. And Itold people they're they're lucky I'm not white
because I tell them what to getoff. I'm not going to change the
agenda totally. You could do whatI expect you to do, and that
is to make your your concept fitmine. You know, Chase shave it
off, be these procustin. Ifit doesn't fit, they cut the feet
(44:20):
off and then you're fitting bed.That's type of thing. They're not going
to change their agenda for you.They might because they need we are in
America democracy, the majority wins.We need some more people. They didn't
ask you to be a part allthose all that time before. For now
that they want more, they're invitingyou, but you still gotta trim it
down. It's still gotta be aboutgender. Even though they're pretending it's not
(44:43):
about gender first anymore, that's nottrue. Look at it. It's all
about gender. It hasn't changed.I just appreciate Betty for we Dan for
openly with a new book going uhand changing it and saying it's about the
family. It's about the family.It's we've got to stop bashing. Male
bashing has got to stop. Seethat's what I like as a person who
(45:04):
can admit. We cannot get veryfar unless we admit. And what I've
done with immatial and several nine documents, I've shown that there's one of the
five steps to eradicated racism, andthe first step is to acknowledge the crime.
You've got to say we've done this, I've done that, and then
(45:25):
secondly, be remorseless and I'm sorryfor it, but I don't want to
hear I'm sorry. That's the endof it. No. The next step
is atonement, and that comes inthe form of some type of compensation to
the victim. And we look atreparations as one of those possibilities. Okay.
And then the fourth is from thatGod loves that He's gonna redeem you.
(45:49):
And if God can do it,I can do it too. That's
the last step, which is forgiveness. But those are the five steps to
eradicated a racism. And you know, I like what the guy that I
ended up really spending time with atthe end, I didn't want to meet
him, mister Whitton, who representsthe murderers. I remember when you know,
uh, Judge Brown, you knowa ton of Chamblers. They're good
(46:12):
friend of man. You know,lead counseling the airs versus for this case.
Yeah, alb Albert Albert, AlbertOaks champlers. Oh yeah, he
was the lead counselor in the airversus fort this case. So all picked
me up at the airport. Iflew in from Iowa back in nineteen eighty
six to do some you know,to interview some folking Mississippi and in the
(46:32):
till and he said after we gotfrom left the courthouse, that you know,
after I got the papers things thatthey had, most of the stuff
they had destroyed, but the littlestuff they did have, I bought the
paper copies of the one dollar page, and he said, now, given
what just went down, and theywere kind of annoying to me. I
mean, it's a long time ago. Why are you asking now? So
please just give me what you have. Or we got twenty five cheeks here,
(46:54):
and half of them most of themare duplicates. I thought, I
take them all. Duplicates included youknow, if you're sometimes it's not what
you got, it's it's was impliedand what is there? Okay, so
I'll take them all. So hesaid, get on, what just happened.
I want to take you over hereto meet mister Wickens. I said,
Whitton guys who represented the murderers ofthem till he said yes. I
(47:15):
don't want to leave him. I'minterviewing the primary sources, people you know
who are descendants of the other blacks. You know, they they are blacks
themselves. I said, that's whatI want. He said, well,
you know what, you catch moreflies with honey, uh than u.
You catch more flies with honey thannneka girl. I looked at him.
(47:36):
I said that's if you want flies, which I don't. However, after
about five minutes of talking, Isaid Okay, I'll go for it.
I went on't interview him. MisterWhitton was in tears. At some point
we became very good friends. Ifound out an interviewing other blacks down there
that he had represented poor blacks inthe state of Mississippi. Oh don't know,
(47:58):
Humper into his death, I said, mister Whitton, you're doing good
and for that you received your redemptions, and for that you can get the
forgiveness for me. Don't have toask me for it. I already did
it. You know if you coulddo something like that here, because you
can't change yesterday, or you can'tchange it happened. You represented the murderers.
You gave the defining closing remarks everylance angle sax and one of you
(48:21):
has the courage to free these men, and you will, and they did.
You did that, But that's notwhat did. The state is already
set in in eighteen seventy when thefifteenth Amendments to the Constitution is ratified giving
black men, given h black menthe right to vote, and early on
before that in nineteen uh, I'msorry, in eighteen fifty seven with the
(48:42):
dread Scott decision, blocks have norights that specifically that blacks have no rights
and wife were bound to respect.That was the designing U document right there.
So there was no crime in thestay of Mississippi to kill to lynch
in matial behause blacks had no rightsand wife would under that simple examp.
The only reason they went for thish you know, mok trow was because
(49:06):
the world knew about it and theyhad to come up like they wanted to
do the right thing. But theyplayed it good, all white, all
male, you know, and theydid it. They did it up.
But I'm simply saying that we justhave to call it out. We have
to stop being coy and nice andmoreover, stop assimilating, stop agreeing,
because that's the end thing to do, and that's how you yourself will make
(49:29):
it. You're gonna leave a legacy. You're not gonna be here forever,
not of us. It's going toget ever. You have to leave a
legacy. Thank You's something that's gonnamake a difference. That's it. So
you got about two minutes. Didyou want to say something to her before
a rewrap? Thank you so much? Well, doctor, that's an interesting
(49:50):
summation. Once you get rolling,I'm not gonna get in the way of
the ball that you're send bouncing downthat hill. Thank you somebody. It's
build up a great deal of momentumbefore it hits the bottom. You shop,
you should talk so fast. It'smy talk. You wouldn't getting him
(50:15):
to take notes on back in theday when you had to do it by
hand. But they don't teach thesekids how to write anymore. I know
thing out of Tyson. See,they wouldn't be able to take notes on
your lectures, and they admiss.But then all they need to do is
go on nine. Let's see me. I've done several blogs and several people.
(50:35):
The one that's the most uh,I frequently visited. The one that
I did, I spoke for BlackHistory Month at Bolin College. Uh.
You read. You know they don'tlike to read these days. They like
to hear these ten second sound bites. Well, guess what they're getting ready
to get more than ten ten seconds. They're getting ready to get a little
(50:55):
piece. But this book that I'mdoing, it's going to be short and
sweet, and the opening chap you'regonna love it. The opening chapter is
African of Melivated Womanism. What itis? What it ain't. How about
that. It's a lovely book andit's a nice piece. They're gonna want
that book, and I'm gonna makeit sweet and I'm gonna make it affordable.
Okay, that's coming out next.There you go, thank you,
(51:22):
There you go. Um, didyou thank you so much? You're not
really on social media? Um?No, I just I haven't got that.
I mean, I do a lotof you know, interview people ask
me to do a blog. Idid a blog for even uh for George
Mason University several years ago. ButI do a lot of things, blocks
(51:45):
of people back and forth. Idid one about a month ago, this
right before spring breaking, but threeor four weeks ago with a lady who
is a theologian, uh, andshe finished her PhD at Harvard. But
she has a much visited the blogthat she asked me to do one because
she followed all my works, shehas all my books, and so I
(52:05):
did it. You know, she'sgood, Thank you, thank you.
Anyway, Yeah, I'm might youat some point right now, I'm not
yes, ma'am. Um, You'redefinitely welcome to to hang out with us.
We're gonna send about another and we'regoing back and forth, m and
I opened up the lines and allowpeople give them a chance to talk and
(52:28):
bring up topics that they want totalk about. Um by the way,
so yeah, yes, that's wherewe are in this showIn hold on did
you find uh mister Delores Brown online? Here on with us? I want
her the two of the ladies,uh missus Brown and doctor welliams uh to
(52:52):
hook up. Is a widow ofone of the original Tuskegee Airman and most
recently for the Tuskegee Airman's Institute.She is on top of it. And
(53:15):
also here's another thing for you.One of her close friends was a colleague
of her husband. That was ChappieJames, later of the Tuskegee Yarman,
who wound up four star General incommand of NORAD North American Air Defense Command,
(53:36):
and she was his executive assistant.She also will her husband you might
want to talk about what he did. The late Husbandry Brown Lary was CEO
for Kaiser Permanente in California. Heentered the Tuskege Yarman under a special civilian
(54:00):
program of flight training when he wasseventeen years old and wound up serving in
World War Two. Became an officer, took advantage of the gi Bill owned,
got himself educated, and he woundup CEO for one of the major
medical operations in the country. Ithink it was sixteen some hospitals in California.
(54:30):
So, yeah, that's somebody youneed to talk to. And I
think they're thirteen original members still leftalive in the oldest one hundred and eight.
That's wonderful. You know. Ihad the occasion I used to write
the Smoke and Joe Frazier, youknow, and I remember when they had
this big you know, demonstration becauseyou know, after he came back from
(54:53):
that Muhammad Ali, they had thatfight in Manila. Uh, and he
bought all this prim Philadelphia, Yes, and he bought all that property in
northern Phila. They developed into ahuge place, you know, with all
these fabulous homes, you know,several hundred thousand dollars homes. And those
(55:13):
people didn't even know that they hadtaken that property from Joe. And at
that time, you know, um, when I was, I was there,
I was one of the speakers.Uh. We had also Bill Constant,
he was there and uh we justhad a great time, you know.
But I met a Tuskeget airman.Uh So the Tuskeget period. You
talk about the Tuskegee thing with theshipless case, and then you talk about
(55:37):
the airman. So that word Tuskegeeis a buzzword for me, you know.
So I and in fact, Ihave a picture of him in the
book my second inatial book called theDefenditive Emmetial, you know. So,
uh he's he's right there in thatbook Hunting. He's right there. So
yeah, I would love to meether at some point for her observation,
(56:00):
that observation and the airmen they weren'treally connected, No, they weren't connected.
Just the word Tuskey Tuskege Alabama meanslotany with Tuskey Institute, you know,
and with Tuskey Airman, the TuskeyGaciphilis case. You know all that.
You know, it's important to mejust to I make my own little
(56:22):
connection there the buzz for me.Yeah. See. One of the things
is it was an educational institution,and they had facilities, starting with what
they set up way back when forthe students who were not going to be
treated with respect in anybody's local medicalfacilities, which were very completely lacking back
(56:50):
then, so they set up amedical facility for the students, and folks
being folks back then, they tookadvantage of them or a lot of things
that they couldn't not have gotten awaywith at a mainstream facility ran, which
is how they got caught up withdoing those observations. The Judge Joe Brown
(57:17):
Show presented by Valerie Denise Jones UncensoredTruth with a legal Twist, Friday,
four pm Eastern Standard Times nine twonine four seven seven one seven four.
Visit Miss Valerie Denise Jones dot comfor details. I want to know more
(57:42):
about big media. Tune in everyTuesday and Friday at four pm Eastern,
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