‘Andor’ Season 2 Finale and Revisiting ‘Rogue One’

Episode 140 is here and we give a bittersweet goodbye to the best Star Wars content of the Disney era. We also discuss if ‘Andor’ has had any effect on rewatching ‘Rogue One’.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
What up, folks, And welcome to the Kayproculture Episode one
with myself, the Depac Laurian, and John Dorr. It's a
very bittersweet pod. Today we're gonna be chatting the final
episodes of and Or season two why possibly the best
Star Wars we will ever get. But before we get

(00:36):
into it, Aaron, you weren't here for one thirty nine,
how's everything going?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I am. I am sad. I'm very very sad that
I missed that, because I might as well just say
right now. I mean, I think that that week of
the three episodes was honestly the best run of the
three episodes, said, I wasn't here, definitely hyped to you
go back and listen to your to your solo pod. Yeah,
I missed it because I was I had to do

(01:04):
an overnight shift on Saturday, so pretty much I had
to work from seven seven at night to seven in
the morning and then like I didn't end up going
to sleep until close to ten o'clock in the morning,
which is literally like one o'clock Joe's time. So I
was like, dude, I like, I'm so off balance, Like,
but you know, we're back into our normal routine. I

(01:25):
had a pretty good, pretty good visit eight Great Food
watched that current week's three episode run of and Or
with My Dad's Entertainment System, which is always a fun
time Great sound System. Great TV finally got a you know,
Saturday Night Magic last night, which had been like three

(01:46):
weeks since we played, and I was like going full
like Tyrone big Hum's like, you know, trying to I
want to play Magic so bad. I haven't played in forever. Yeah.
Speaking of Magic, though, Joe, you texted me earlier this
week and you said that you you got your first
Magic the Gathering advertisement. They came onto your your social feed.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, so, uh well, no, it came onto my Disney
Plus feed.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
For one, obviously they're listening to us, right They're they're
tapped into our our social feeds, and that's why we're
getting targeted for these ads.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
But yeah, no, I I got a it.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Was like the final fantasy in my Magic to Gathering
a collaboration that yeah hit the that hit the Disney
Plus ads.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
So Wizards of the Coast, you know, the you know,
the creator of Magic the Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons
and a lot of other games, which is also under Hasbro,
they started doing this Universus Beyond thing with Magic the Gathering,
where pretty much they can get IP rights to IP.
So they did like Lord of the Rings, they did Fallout,

(02:56):
they did Warhammer forty K, they did Doctor Who. And
there's a lot of people, imagine the Gathering that absolutely
hate Universes Beyond because they want Wizards of the Coast
to keep doing their own original lore. Final Fantasy is
has become like it's not even out yet, like it's
not even pre release, but we have like spoilers of

(03:17):
all the different cards. Joe, you gotta imagine there's a
huge fan base out there for Final Fantasy just in general, right.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Like, yeah, no, I'm I'm very aware, like they I
don't even know how many games are out fifteen sixteen
something like that. Yeah, and they keep cranking them out.
So yeah, no, I don't doubt, like I've never played
a Final Fantasy game in my life, but yeah, I'm not,
like I'm aware for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Anyways. Like the craziest thing to me is, like I
learned the other day that so there's they've already like
pre priced everything, like all the different products, like you know,
the Commander decks, individual like playbooster packs, collector booster packs,
boxes of the playboosters everything. So normally, like a collector
booster box of any set is probably like anywhere between

(04:05):
two hundred and thirty or two hundred dollars and three
hundred dollars. And the collector booster packslash boxes are where
you can get like the really valuable cards, you know,
you get special art, you get serialized cards, all that stuff.
So it's normally between like two hundred and three hundred dollars.
A collector booster box for Final Fantasy is supposed to
go for seven hundred and fifty dollars Jesus, which is insane.

(04:29):
I don't know why it's super expensive. I don't know why.
Like there's a lot of amazing cards. It's going to
be a powerhouse of a set, that's for sure, but
it's just crazy to think, like, ah, like okay, all
this stuff's gonna be super most of the stuff in
the set is going to be super expensive. But also
like simultaneously hearing that Joe had to come into his
feet and like, okay, this is gonna like break collectors

(04:54):
like people who just collect things. You might not even
play the game that just like collect things from you know, TCGs,
Funko's Action figures, all that kind of stuff. But as
much as I want to buy like so many different
things in the set and my wallet ain't ain't about
it right now. But it's cool, Like I'm happy for
the Final Fantasy fans who also play Magic to see
this coming. And then later this year there's an Avatar

(05:16):
the Airbender, Magic the Gathering collaboration, so Bash probably equally
is insane. But yeah, I mean other than that, man,
not just you know, still playing Magic, heavy into it,
super addicted. Also, like my last piece of news, which
is not really news, but I think is insane. I
don't know if anybody's noticed, but if you go on

(05:37):
to Disney Plus and with the recent release of the
Star Wars Fortnite thing, they put a section into Star
Wars that says star Wars content with Fortnite, like with
Fortnite characters. Have you have you seen that? Dude? It's there, dude,
they own. So it's like a segment that only has

(05:59):
Star Wars content that have characters in the Fortnite mashup
were lost, dude, we are so.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Lost here now the Fortnite Star Wars thing is super
weird to me because like Darth Vader, for one, is
about to be like like kids are about to see
Darth Vader and be like and then like they're first
gonna see him in Fortnite, right, and then they're gonna
see like a Star Wars movie and be like, oh wait,
this is the guy from Fortnite.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, I know that's from.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Fortnite, not from Star Wars. From Fortnite. I hate it, man,
but yeah no, And then there's that whole thing about
them like using Ai for James Earld Jones's voice.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
I'm like, all right, guys.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's going too far.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Let's going way too far, and we're going way too far.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
That's it for me, man. How you been doing? Uh?

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Not too bad today? I was just walking around the
neighborhood and actually saw there's this guy I know who is.
He kind of works in like like like movie press.
He posted a picture of him at the Mission Impossible
premiere here in New York. Like I saw the surrounding buildings,

(07:12):
I was like, you know what, I think this is
like right up the street from me. Sure enough, I
walked to this area where I where it looked like
it was and It was like this big, like red
carpet mission impossible set up, and I was like, oh shit,
this is this is fucking sick. And I was sending
I was sending like all my friends pictures there and
I sent you that one one video. I showed up

(07:32):
kind of late though Tom Cruise was there, but I
just I just missed him. But I saw some cool people.
I saw if anybody watches like Severance, the guy that
portrays Miltchick in that he was there. He's in the movie.
Who else was there? I saw the director Christopher McCrory.
Who else did I see? It took a bunch of

(07:53):
like photos and videos. I saw Angela Bassett Haley atwell
and then I saw like some like YouTube movie creators
that I know, Like I mean that I just see
sometimes I come across my feed. But like I was
trying to see a movie today at the theater that's
like right next to where this Red Car Career is happening.
But for whatever reason, they didn't have any IMAX showings.

(08:16):
And I was like, oh, this is why they don't
have anything showing in IMAX, but.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Is what it is? Oh yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:22):
And I also randomly like for some reason the weekend
was there. I don't know if that means he's in
the movie. I don't think so. But he just had
a maybe a song. But he had a movie come
out this weekend that I hear is terrible. Maybe that's
why he was there. I don't know, but yeah, President

(08:42):
Movies was not there, and no, he was there, but
I missed him unfortunately. So yeah, I saw that. That
was pretty cool. And then I'm trying to like, we
don't talk about sports on here. I don't really care
about sports. There's a lot of buzz here in New
York City because of the Knicks. They like this seen
out here, especially by like Madison Square Garden is absolutely insane,

(09:05):
Like the the energy is electric around there. Whenever the
next win, Timothy Shallome is like, I love that he's
in like his like rowdy sports fan era. It's hilarious
to me. But they play again next week. It's the
the Eastern Finals, Eastern Conference Finals or whatever it will be.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, the the last game seven of the the Oh,
they already won. Oh so they're on already one.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, they beat they beat the Celtics, and they're gonna
play the Pacers. I think, I think they play next
next Wednesday, So if they win that game, I'm gonna
I'm gonna go down to MSG just to see what
it's like. So so wish me luck, folks. Yeah, for now,
I'm a Knicks fan of the root for the next

(09:54):
Just make.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Sure you're wearing some New York gear for sure.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh yeah, No, I'm gonna get a shirt. I think
I sent you the I'm gonna get the I'm gonna
get the Ball of Trade's shirt. Dude, is so sick, so.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Good because it also makes me think of you. Remember the
clip I sent uh to you of him where he's
wearing the pink jacket and he's on like the the
Talking Head Show, but he's talking about football. Oh yeah,
it's like the prediction like this team's gonna beat this
team and it actually happened, and yeah, it's like it's

(10:30):
so good, dude, I love it. I love I love
when you know famous actors or just like celebrities have
that like you know, we're not that different, Like I
am a human being and like I I enjoyed the
same things you do, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (10:45):
No, I think I don't.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I don't think anyone has like achieved that, like getting
that message across that, like I'm one of you as
well more than Timothy Shallomey. Like you should have seen
Like you probably saw this video. I think we talked
about it, but the one where he's like in his
like big black suv and he's down at Madison Square

(11:07):
Garden and he's sticking like half his body out the
window just to like celebrate with the fans.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Did you see that one?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
I haven't. I haven't seen it, but damn I I
could see him doing it, that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, he's like Nixon six.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Nixon six, dude.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
If you he wants to be with the crowd so bad.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
If you go down to MSG uh outside of MSG
on Wednesday, do it. If you were to bump into Ballatrads,
what are you gonna do?

Speaker 3 (11:41):
I don't know. I might have to. I might have
to drop a LISANYI.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
But if I see, I mean I might have to.
You might have to.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
In my balla trading shirt. Dude. No, he'd probably be
so hype the Duke of a Raccus and Paul Trads
my god, so.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
That I hope you do. I hope you run into them,
But yeah, I can't imagine how the fanaticism out there
for New York New York sports is. Even if you're
not into sports, it's just like, Damn, I love this.
You gotta experience love in the city.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Well, I mean, granted, when I was living in California
and like I rarely went out to LA. But I'm
sure LA has its night like that has its nights
like this, But I feel like New York. The people
in New York ride for their sports teams a lot
harder than people in LA ride for their teams.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
For sure. Like New York has to be like the
singularity when it comes to like just sports in general,
you know what I mean. Yeah, there's just something about
it being like like because like I think about New
York and I'm like, it's not the capital of the
United States, but it is in a lot of ways,
you know what I mean. Like it's not Washington, DC.

(12:54):
It's not where all like the government buildings are and everything,
but like lifestyle wise and just like life in general
and culture, like I think it's kind of the capital
of the United States, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Sure, Yeah, but anyways, yeah, no, that's it for me.
Nix and six GKG baby.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, but okay, let's move on here. Let's talk little news,
little news. Are you ready for some news, Aaron, I
think I got we we got a little bit of
a little bit of New Star Wars news. So after
that Andor finale, Disney dropped the first official looks at
the return of Darth Vader in and Or season three.

(13:40):
From the looks of it, it's like there there's a
some sort of hallway fight sequence, and we also got
a shot of him like force choking someone. So what
did you think about these first looks at and Door
season three?

Speaker 2 (13:55):
So just like the like, I mean, nothing expresses or
like emphasizes or iterates like the power of Darth Vader,
Like this sneak preview, I mean you got just like
the dark dark halways scene and all you see is

(14:16):
the red lightsaber, and you're like, damn, is this the
beginning of New Hope on New Hope? Wait?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Is this right before a New Hope?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Wait?

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Hold? Is this literally right before a New Hope? I
mean damn, Like talk about like patchwork and talk about
we might see some crazy things. I mean, he's after
the death Star plans and you know that, but like,
how is it gonna escape the ship. I don't know,
I have not idea.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah no, I guess only time will tell. But no,
like these first looks were like, like I've never seen
these guys have so much fear and looking.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
At they struck in their hearts.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yea, struck in these hearts.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
It's almost like if you were playing a video game,
Like there's like a certain like radius that he has
around him that if you're within like a certain footage
like of the circle, you just like drop your blaster
and you start just like cowering and trembling. You know.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Excellent first looks at and Or season three. I can't
believe they went there. I I kind of wish they
saved this surprise for Indoor season three. You know that
I'm I'm hype for it nonetheless.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oh dude, I'm so here for it, Like I it's
gonna be something totally new for Star Wars, and I
just it makes the dril look so bright.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Fuck yeah, dude, can't wait.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
That Cobby off guard that got me super off guard
because you were referring to Indoor season three as a
new hope, right.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
No like rogue one? Ah fuck no no, But you
played it off like yeah, no, it was right.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah. Yeah, well I mean if you stitch Rogue one
and a New Hope together, then yeah, that was really good. Yeah,
damn good. Shit.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Okay, let's talk some and Or now the final episodes
of and Or season two. But first, like I got
to talk about seven through nine on the last pod,
But did you have any quick thoughts on on what,
like how did you feel about these? Because this is
probably some of the greatest Star Wars that we've ever gotten,

(16:29):
like the definitely the best Star Wars that we've gotten
since the original trilogy. But I like, on my end,
I think I like these like and Or as a whole. Now,
I think I like it more most of the original trilogy.
But yeah, how did you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah? No, it definitely deserves like its own pedestal, you
know it. It It's kind of hard sometimes because I
do agree, I think those like seven through nine was
the best Star Wars that I've ever seen since probably
the first time that I watched Revenge of the Sith
Slash the first time I watched the original trilogy. But

(17:06):
it's just like a different genre within Star Wars, you know,
Like it's a political drama that's the way that the
story has been written and how the story finishes. Between
episode eight and nine, I think I was crying through
like somewhere between sixty to seventy five percent of the

(17:28):
entire screen time. The second they start gathering in the
courtyard and you hear like the deep ominous music just
constantly in the background, and they do the whole chance
and everything. That's the second I started crying because we know,
as the audience, like what's about to happen to them,
Like we don't know exactly what, but we know that
it's not good. But when they started singing their national anthem,

(17:52):
I just like the tear Ducks. It's almost like if
my tear Ducks were a car somebody tied up brick
to the fucking gas pedal. I love. I don't want
to watch it, but I need to watch it, And
damn it's exactly what and Or is supposed to be.
Like all three of those episodes is like the microscopic

(18:16):
aspect of Star Wars and what the the Empire's done
to the galaxy. But it's just one specific story of
one planet within a galaxy of you know, upboards of
ten thousand planets kind of thing. And they were just amazing.
I mean they were like, in my mind it was
just ten out of ten all the way for the
first three or for that for seven through nine. I

(18:38):
mean just insanely good performances from everybody. I mean Cyril
was amazing. God, even d Dre was amazing. Every it
was just perfect. It was perfect to the last new details.
It was perfect. And I mean that's I don't think

(18:59):
I I should need to say anything outside of that.
It was just absolutely perfect. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
No, I think by the end of a couple of
things that I have like that I forgot to mention,
was I really like like what during them? I think
where I started to like well up a little bit
was by the time all the fighting is like starting
to like cool off a little bit, and they're broadcasting
out that message like saying like oh, like you know,

(19:25):
they're they're killing all of us and we don't even
really know why type of thing, Like it's just this
woman screaming like please help us, and it's just this
shot on Cassiane's face the whole time, and Diego Luna
does this, like does this so well, but like it's
just him listening to this like this woman like plea
for help. Like at that moment, it was like especially

(19:48):
heart wrenching, just because in the arc prior, remember, he
visits Gorman to see if they're like like if Gorman
Front is ready to like join the rebellion, join the
rebellion or like lead their own rebellion type thing. And
he pretty much went there and he's like, Nah, these
guys ain't shit, and like they're not ready at all,
and he like kind of like wrote them off, and

(20:10):
then him and Luthen have that conversation about like well,
Luthen's like, Okay, well if they if they fail, like
if it burns right, yeah, And so I just felt
like knowing what he did like that one year prior,
I keep forgetting like sometime like these arcs like it
all happens like within a year of each other. So

(20:32):
he visited Gorman a year ago, and now he's back
on Gorman because he's trying to get he's trying to
kill Dedra, and now he just like witnessed all of
it happening, and I feel like there's like this level
of uh, like he he has like this guilt on
his shoulders, right because of how he felt like a
year prior and now all of it's actually happening, And

(20:55):
I think that's that's like kind of everything that this
final shot on Kasine's face like and of conveys and
I just left it.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, one hundred percent what beautifully said. And also like
the last two things before we go that I have
on seventh through nine is number one. I think the
timing of the release of Just and or season two
in general is just perfect considering what's going on like
in the United States specifically, it is like perfect, and

(21:24):
it reminds me of like the scene that's right before
you know, like the massacre happens, and you literally have
two reporters, ones on the left, ones on the right,
and literally one of them is the right air quote
and one of them is the left, Like they're both
like one of them is telling the truth and the
other one spinning the ISB Empire narrative like and they're

(21:47):
both like talking at the same time. I think it
was just perfectly done.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Wait did one of the did the did one of
them mention like this protest is like some of the
protesters are like shooting office.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Here's there's something.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, No, it basically spun it to say like, oh,
the Gormans are out of control and they're you know,
murdering you know, innocent citizens of the Empire kind of thing,
and it's like, dude, none of that is happening. That
is not what's happening right here.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah no, but that's that kind of like the ropes
back to episode nine when they're in the Senate and
like one of the senators is talking about how these
like monstrous citizens of Gorman were attacking like these poor officers,
like defenseless officers or something like that, and then we

(22:35):
of course get the mon mathmashit, which was fucking excellent,
but it.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Was it was so good. The heart and soul and
leader of the rebellion is literally sitting underneath the Empire's nose.
Is just so good. I mean, what better place to hide.
And just you know, tiny things like the snipers that
were in the square, Like just the sound of those
snipers going on, I'm like, okay, I think that's one

(23:01):
of the sickest blaster noises I've ever heard in Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Like the stormtroopers have never been more accurate, the blaster
bolts have never sounded scarier like, and those tie fighters
that aren't even shooting at anybody, but are just like
patrolling around the school, around the plaza, just terrifying stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's literally like a like an F fighter like of
like the US are you know military flying overs. Oh,
like everybody feels it. There's You're like, damn that's powerful. Yeah,
just just amazing. I mean, I my last thing on
those three episodes is that after I finished episode eight,
and I don't know if you felt this, but I

(23:41):
was like, I don't know if I can emotionally handle
going into the next episode. Like immediately, I think I
need some a break. I think I need a little
bit of a reprieve. But I was like, nah, yeah,
I gotta watch this, dude, I have to.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
No.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
But but uh, one more thing I forgot to mention
on the last episode was how heartbreaking the.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Bix message was.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Like Bix's message after after that she leaves while casting's asleep,
like that shit was so so sad, just because I
like she says, you know, she says like, oh, well,
we'll have everything we want, like once this is over,
and like we could be together whatever the fuck, brother, Like.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
You already know what happens.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
We already know and that's that's like the the mask
fel thing about the writing in this show is that
you know all the answers. Everyone knows the answers. It's
a prequel show. None of these people make it out
and they I said this on the last spot, they'd
still find ways to surprise you, somehow make things compelling
even though we already know where it's headed.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
I mean, and like, that's why I cried so much,
because it wasn't it wasn't like that, it was just
all sad. It was like, Okay, you had like everything
that was from you know, the whole Gorman mass to
her and like everything leading up to that. Then you
literally almost go straight into big saying goodbye, which she's
so right for doing, because if if if they do
say together, Cassie's not gonna do what he needs to do.

(25:14):
And then you immediately go into the comedic relief of
fucking K two oh yeah, and and and then you're
like kind of still crying, but you're now you're crying
for like joy and just like laughter and like the
comedic relief and everything, and it's it, It's just perfectly done.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
That's good stuff. I did.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
I did love the return of K two. It did
make me a little sad that, uh that K two
didn't end up being like, you know, B two Emo,
like if they uploaded B two Emo's like software into
this thing or whatever, you know. I like that was
like a fan theory that I was like, Oh, that's
that's kind of I could see that. I guess Cassie
and could just bond with whatever joid he has to sure.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Sure, it's the way that all droids are written in
Star Wars. It's hard to even as like a viewer
to not bond with them in general or like the characters.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, they're already starting to do like like Emmys for
Your Consideration screenings. They had one here in New York,
I think, like two weeks ago, and I just wish
that I could have I could be there because they're
they're hosted by Oscar Isaac, which is also really fun.
But no Stealin' Scars guard like said something that kind

(26:25):
of just speaks to the writing. It's like everything that
Tony Gilroy writes is like everything feels urgent and everything. Yeah,
everything feels like it like every every word matters, you know,
and that's just it's just great and.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
It just it just reminds me. And you know, we
don't like to focus a lot on negativity here, but
I don't know if you remember the screenshot I sent
you of It was like after the release of seven
through nine, and it was somebody online saying like, oh,
nobody Star Wars fans, nothing happen for fifty minutes in
and or Wow, this is the greatest show ever. And

(27:05):
it's like, dude, Okay, you're just missing out. You're just
totally missing out on everything that's happening right now. And
you know that's your problem, because that's literally what it is,
is like everything is urgent and knowing the fact that
the way the show is written and we already know
what happens at the end, like we already we kind
of already breezed over a little bit. Is that the

(27:27):
way that it's being told. It's like you were sitting
there as a viewer being like, Okay, everything that's happening
right now, every little tiny thing is going to be
important somehow, and I need to pay as much attention
as I possibly.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Can, like no matter how it feels like pacing wise,
like even though it could just be like two people
talking in a room, like it's still important and it'll
tie back to this like like at the end, you.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Know, somehow, in some way, and you're gonna be like
the second like the you know, the light bulb you know,
gets flicked on. You're like, oh my god, Oh that's
so good.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Let's talk ten through twelve. Then let's do it.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Let's do Yeah, I'll let you go first this time,
since I did the solo pod last, But any any
quick thoughts on ten through twelve?

Speaker 2 (28:19):
So I'll start, you know, even even though I just
said we don't focus on negatives here, I will start
with literally just my one gripe of the last three episodes. Okay,
I think that they pushed the K two comedic relief
thing a little bit too far, just like a little bit, just.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
A little hard where where where specifically, I think.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's at the very it's at the very end of
I think it's I think it's episode twelve, or it's
when they're flying away from Corazont and he's like like,
you know, having a flight plan and all this stuff,
and I'm like, okay, like.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Oh, he's he's like too quippy for you.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, yeah, like as a character in general and everything no,
he's just quippy enough. But I think it's like I
was so seriously emotionally invested into what happened in the
previous three episodes that I was like, Okay, I think
I need a little bit more of this seriousness than
the comedic relief from Kate two. Even though I love

(29:25):
Alan Tutdeck so much. That's literally my one gripe, and
that's not even really an actual gripe. I wouldn't use
that to like knock my score, you know, of of
the show in general over season two. In general, I
some of the things that just happened in these last
three episodes, like part of Gas committing suicide was and

(29:49):
and like the it was it was heavy, and the
fact that I forget the the ISB officer's name, but
when he's standing outside of the room and he just
like puts his hand up and he's like, just nope,
just let him be because he knows. Like it's almost
like when you're in the IB and you do something wrong,
if somebody's gone kill himself, everyone else in the eyes

(30:11):
be totally understands. It's like we ain't going where deaders going,
which is back where we started in season one. I
just like that happening. I won't to expand on the
slot a little bit too much until until we like
truly get to that part. But honestly, I think Luthan's
death did not hit that hard for me. Oh really,

(30:32):
not as hard as I thought it would until a
certain thing happens in the last episode. It's something that
it's something that Cassian says that was really like, Okay,
now I'm crying.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you know, you know what I mean. Yeah,
oh yeah, we'll talk about that in a bit.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
It wasn't as perfect of a segue as Rogue one
was into a New Hope, but it was damn close.
It was damn close. Yeah, like like visually it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, I know, because because Rogue one into a New Hope,
it's literally like the same hand off the desk. Yeah,
they hand off the desk star plans onto the ship,
where like the opening shot of Rogue one is Vader
chasing that ship in his star destroyer.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah yeah, no, so I can earn a new Hope.
Yeah oh yeah, my bad.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah. I guess for me, I didn't mind the K
two still. I mean, there is a gripe that I
have with K two, but it's not it's not until
I watch Rogue one, So I guess I'll talk about
that a little later. But uh, K two, it kind
of just feels like he is uh like because he's
pretty quick being Rogue one too, you know, and I
think that's like, yeah, yeah, that's it's like part of

(31:44):
his charm. But yeah, as far as like the luthen stuff,
I love this final like face off between him and
Dedro and the shop, and I love his whole thing
about like when he says like, oh, there's a like
the rebellion isn't even here anymore. It's everywhere, and like
there's a whole galaxy of people out there like waiting
to disgust to you. I'm like, hell, yeah, dude. But

(32:07):
as far as his death, I kind I feel you there.
I think something about me wanted like uh kind of
like more of like a gun's blazing, like going out
guns blazing type of thing.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, it didn't feel as it was a martyrdom the
way that he died, Like it didn't feel fully like
he was a martyr and he really died as as
a hero. I mean he did, yeah, but it could
have been done in like a yeah, like a guns
blazing kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
So yeah, I kind of wish maybe maybe just a
little I don't know, but I don't know how else
I like would have maybe have seen it. But I
definitely thought this these flashbacks and like from the past
to the present were pretty interesting between between him and Clea.
I think I wish we maybe got like little more
bits and pieces that they did have, like a like

(32:56):
a relationship that went back that far, a little bit
more on that history behind the two, yeah, instead of
like just like kind of like shoehorning it all into
one episode. I mean it works, you know, don't get
me wrong, but I feel like we planted a little
more of that, you know, throughout the show instead of
just like putting it in the finale.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
So I definitely like that. Do you think they're on Naboo?

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I think I was the same thing. I think it
looks like Naboo, which is which is.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Great, which is Yeah, it's a crazy thing, but.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, it's crazy to think that like Naboo is still
just this like civil you know, still very very beautiful.
I also like it's like, speaking of the flashbacks, I
wanted to know, like what Luthan was fighting in Like
what war like battle was he in during that? You

(33:50):
know what I mean? Like what was that? Like what
during that time period? Because because that had to have
been free like empire, like that had to have been
prequel trilogy.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, it had to be prequel trilogy, but I feel
like it would have had to have happened like maybe
like a year or two after Anakin became Darth Vader.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
It had to be like really close to order, like
post Order sixty six.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah. Yeah, so like the galaxy doesn't exactly know what's
going on at the moment. It's still just kind of
like talking about like the shift and the force at
that moment rather than like the actual impact of the
transition from the you know, the Republic to the Empire.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
But those were good episodes, like he's like teaching her
how to be like a little badass.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Like speaking of that exchange between de dra And and
Luthin in the shop, I had this really weird thought
that came up. So you know, she slaps down like
out of the fucking the Black Suitcase.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
The Navigator, Yeah, the star Path Unit, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
The StarPath Unit. Did that not make you think of
the sequel trilogy.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
No why because isn't It's.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Not the same thing. But it made me think of
the same device they used to get to the planet
where Palpatine came back.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Did was was that another star Path unit thing that
what it was?

Speaker 2 (35:14):
But I don't know if it's the same. And then
also that made me think that the sword or the
dagger that he pulls out and kill and tries to
kill himself with, is the same dagger that had the
inscription No, no, no, no, no, it's the same inscription of
the dagger that they that's in the sequel trilogy, the
one that has writing on it.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Oh yay, okay, but isn't that dagger like the it's
supposed to point to like the second Death Star or whatever?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, or like the Yeah, it definitely isn't the same thing,
but I'm like, it made me put on my finger
cap a little bit.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
I don't know if they were like trying to go
for the sequel trilogy there. I mean they they've definitely
done it a couple of times. But I think the
StarPath Unit, I I forget how it came into play,
but I just know it was like it was what
connected Casson and Luthen to begin with, right, Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Was more of an homage to that. Okay, yeah, yeah,
that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
I don't remember what happened to that StarPath unit or like, yeah,
I forget how it came into play or how Dedre
even comes into it.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, but it's pretty much her just saying I know
exactly who you are.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
So yeah, I know that. That was a fun little thing.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
And something about like the opening of episode ten too,
we didn't even talk about how Lonnie like like pretty
much it starts off the you feel the tension already.
Like if there's anything about like episodes seven through twelve
is that you could feel tension between all of them
like something something is about to go down.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, you're waiting for all that tension to just explode.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
So like it it just begins like this crazy race
to like send off this knowledge, like oh, I g
it's like Urso Jeta Kiber. I think that's literally the
name of the episode, Jeda Urso Kaiber. And like she,
like Luthen, doesn't even have like solid information. He only
has like keywords. But by the time that they like

(37:12):
get to like Clay gets to talk to casting about
this stuff, like she's already like her brain's like scrambled.
She's like on the run. She cab barely remember like
what she needs to tell them. You know, It's it's wild.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It's just so like pixel perfect in a way, because
as these three episodes progress, and especially with that scene,
is that Luthen is just one of those pieces that's
like he's the only one air Quote crazy enough to
know or believe that these four keywords do actually mean

(37:46):
something extremely important to the story. No, like if it
was anybody else, they wouldn't believe me exactly, Like how
the the you know, the rebellion Council air Quote doesn't
believe them at all until like the very end.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Essentially, God made me so frustrated because I couldn't believe
that they weren't. We'll talk about that in the second but.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah no. And then Lannie getting the fucking
blaster bullet. You're like, damn, dude, you're so sad, but
like it's probably better that he died because he's Lannie
was not a very trustworthy person who's very like fragile
and volatile.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, I love that they pretty much got it, so
that like Claya understands that he this is what he
would have wanted. He's not going to give up anything
for the rebellion, like and that's part of his sacrifice
that he talks about in season one. Yeah, like with
the monologue sacrificing everything. But yeah, so she eventually escapes

(38:50):
and then we get to episode ten where this is
essentially the breakout scene. Well I think it's episode eleven.
This is like the breakout scene.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah that is at eleven. Yeah that was that was
episode eleven.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
And this is the episode where K two s so
is fucking like they're on Chorussant and he's like using
one of the officers as a human shield, like some
of some of the most terrifying like joy to action
sequences I've ever.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Seen, and and it's so but it's also crazy too
because because yeah, this is like the second half of
episode eleven. This is like one of the first times
we've ever seen and like throughout the whole show too,
but it's specifically like this part of episode eleven is
that we see like these stormtroopers actually being like Navy

(39:37):
seals and shit, like they're actually like regular tactical like,
but they're also like super tactical and everything is like purposeful.
They're not just like firing off lazy shots and missing
all the time. It's it's like an actual arm like
army like military style of thing. You know.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah, I know, I I don't think I've ever seen
storm troopers in action, like without their helmets. It made
me feel like, oh, these are like some special ass stormtroopers.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, like this is like Navy Seals Delta Force kind
of thing. You know.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah, I know that that breakout scene was pretty incredible,
but uh yeah, well what else did you have on
like like episode eleven, any anything anything else like stand
out to you there?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I mean, because this is where Luthen gets let go right,
you know, it was just poetic that Clia was the
one that's like it reminds you of the scene on
Naboo where Luthan's saying to like young Klaya, like make
sure you're ready to press that button. And that's literally
how like Luthen dies. Is like she didn't press a button,

(40:43):
but she was ready to say like and do what
she needed to do if Luthan. If Luthan lives, the
story's gonna be completely different because they will be able
to interrogate him and they will be able to get
the information out of him. Yeah yea, even if it's
just the same thing that they did to freaking Bicks
in season one.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
We didn't we didn't talk about the return of Ben
Mendelssohn here. I forget which episode this was in. This
is probably eleven, I'm not sure, but Ben Mendelssohn is
such a little freak like with this with this interrogation scene,
Like what the hell was he doing with like putting
his head or his finger on Dietra's head and then
just walking around his e I was like, this is

(41:23):
like one of the weirdest things I've ever seen, but
it was so good and so like like gets under
your skin type of creepy, you know, And it just
makes me think about how like something like power dynamics
work within within like amongst the imperials or whatever. Yeah, right,
because Dedra was trying to go for like a like

(41:45):
a he was. She was trying to like one up someone.
She was trying to get like a win for herself
by trying to capture Luthen and then she like gets
like arrested by that one guy, and so she fails,
and then Ben Mendelssohn's like in Rgue one, He's trying
to go for his little owne power grab, but then
Tarkan like kind of shuts him down, you know. So

(42:08):
it's just like a constant like everyone's just trying to
one up each other, you know.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, within an empire or like a system that's supposed
to be like we're all one and we're all here
to like dominate everyone else, people are trying to dominate
each other within the system itself, yeah, which makes it
even worse, you know. And I also think it's hilarious
that literally Dedre got screwed over because somebody said oops

(42:34):
wrong chat.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
Ooh my bad.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Like the Death Star Plans literally got to her inbox
on accident and that or like the message of the
Death Star, not the Death Star Plans. But and that's
how Lonnie got the information.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
He hacked her account. Dude, he had like all logging
credentials and and it's like, damn, dude, spent three hours
in there just digging for information.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
But like and that like I want to think back
to like how Lonnie felt, Like I'm trying to imagine
if I was him, Like, if I was this imperial
or like this rebellion spy slash informant slash plant, how
fucking stressful would it be to have not only to
fake yourself the entire time, but then finally learn about

(43:23):
the Death Star. Wouldn't you rather just die? Because you
know you're gonna die eventually, right, Like you know you're
you're gonna be like, this is too much knowledge for
my brain, and this is too much weight on me.
I'd rather not be tortured for the rest of my
life in in an imperial prison. And I just yeah,
so like in a way, it's like not that tragic

(43:45):
of a death, you know, it's almost like, yeah, I'd
probably prefer that.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
But all right, So episode twelve, they break out, They
break out Clea, They're back on Yavin. I think it's
a good like final episode for something that has to
like kind of lead off into something else. They just
kind of like like everyone has a complete arc. Everyone's
kind of like where they're supposed to be, Like all

(44:11):
the pieces feel like they're they're just in place to
like for the final parts of like a of a
previously like told story to finish up. It feels like
everything's wrapped up, but it's also left it open just
that it can finish off thing that already came out.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
You know. Yeah, It's it's a weird kind of dichotomous
feeling where you're like, ah, like yeah, there's resolution, but also.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Like this is like the beginning of the rebellion.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Of the next thing, and it's also like damn, well
just like going back. It's like, damn, there's so many
other stories that could be told. But yeah, like every
character has its resolution. I mean I would say maybe
Vell doesn't really have a resolution.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
I mean yeah, Ellen Claya, like you know, all the
new characters that we're here are kind of just like, well,
you're part of the rebellion now, yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
You're just like soaked into the story just by default.
I mean. I also love just like the minor things
where you're like in that chamber, like the main chamber
on Yavin, where it's like this is where they do
all the planning for like how they're actually going to
attack the Death Star, and you're like, damn, all right,
we're here, We're here, this is like the beginning of it.

(45:28):
One of my favorite things about episode twelve is Bail
Organa saying may the Force be with you. That's the
first time anybody said it throughout the entire show, both seasons.
And who better to be than Bail Organa, you know
what I mean, the adopted adopted father of Leah.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Random sidebar, What did you think about this side cast
or recast?

Speaker 2 (45:49):
I should say I don't think they could have done
better in terms of like a last minute recast. I
think it was really good.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, yeah, and I know I thought he did really well.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah. And I know, like a lot of like the
Latino or like the Latin actors on the Star Wars
just like in Star Wars in general. You know oscarys It,
Diego Luna, the one that plays Bix, I think is
also Latina. The guy that plays Bail, like the recast
is also Latina. So like on it just reminds me
of watching the and Or panel at Star Wars celebration.

(46:24):
It's like like these latinos are so proud to be
a part of Star Wars and it was like so
cool that they got to cast him and he gets
to feel to be a part of Star Wars as well.
I was like, dude, this is this is dope. I
love this.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
No, you can tell that Diego Luna is like super
proud of all of it.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Yeah, yeah, all of it. But again, there's still just
that part of you that's like, it's not it's not
the original actor. You know, it's not quite the same. Obviously,
I don't think he could add any better.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
No, there's just this thing about continuity, just because especially
having just rewatched Revenge of the Sith, like Jimmy Smith
has been there like for so long. But no, like
like you said, I don't think they could have done
a better job with recasting. It's almost like they don't
have to do these weird, cgi deep fake versions of actors.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Mark Hampbell and the Mandalorian.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's almost like it's it's get do a great job
once you recast someone with a good actor.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Yeah, but okay, but I will say, like having somebody
replace Mark Hamill is a little bit different than replacing
Bail Argana, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
No, that's totally true, but like, but I know what
you're saying, I know exactly.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah, No, I mean, if you if people are gonna
if Disney is even slightly considering bringing Luke Skywalker back
for like something else in the future, like you gotta
recast him.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
You can't do a full CGI mock up of him
for an entire movie. Like that's just that's that's so
absurd to me.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
And if they if they try to do like something
in the future that has Lea again, just don't do it,
Like don't try to see gi you know, Carrie Fisher
again and don't try to replace her either, Just like,
don't do that. I feel like in a way, it's
a little bit disrespectful, like especially if they're you know,

(48:21):
passed away.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Or deceased at first, Like when you see Tarkan in
Rogue one, I'm pretty sure that he'd passed away already.
That like even that was like a little weird, even
though it looked good. It's it's like every anytime that's done,
it's just just kind of feels like it's import taste.
But I know, I I think in episode twelve, the
thing that got me the most was well not got

(48:44):
me the most, but something that like frustrated me was
how much like it's it's cassieing talking about luthen to
like this council or whatever, and how we pretty much
just told all them off out and I loved this.
When he said this, he was like, like, none of
you have like even sacrificed a fraction of what Luthen

(49:06):
gave for this rebellion. Like he pretty much told him
straight like none of you would be here, and like
none of this would be here if it weren't for Luthan,
like giving him his flowers finally.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
You know, so mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I loved like it wasn't like like it wasn't like
a rousing monologue either. It was just him like just
laying down the law, being straight up. Yeah, just like
getting straight to the point.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
That's what made me cry about Luthen's death. It wasn't
when he actually died. It was like Cassian finally, you know,
as with the long relationship that Cassian and Luthen had,
like they've always disagreed, but you know, Cassian's always came
back to Luthen. That's what made me cry when Cassian
was finally like, oh my god, like you know he's dead.

(49:51):
I know exactly what he has done for the rebellion
and has done and put in place and emotion for
the Alexy. It's when Cassie and got super emotional in
that that scene where I was like, oh my god,
now that's really hitting hard.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
You know, like all everyone there in that council like
has the luxury of not having to get like their
hands super dirty. Like Luthan could easily be part of
that council, and he got his hands dirty, like he
literally did it all and and yeah, so like he
like he was like in the trenches with everyone, and

(50:28):
all of them were just like like giving orders and
talking around a table. The only person in there that
is like I guess gave up their life was you know,
it was like Mon Mothmer or something. You know, like
she she sacrificed quite a bit as well, and she
put herself in like a more I feel like a
more dangerous position than everyone else in there too, just

(50:49):
like actually like going in front of the Senate and
denouncing Emperor Palpatine like and name dropping him too.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Like it's almost like like man, Mamma did sacrifice a
lot of things. It's just like the biggest difference between
the two, Like like if you're going to compare Luthan
to Mon, it's like Mon does it in a white
collar kind of way. Luthan's doing it in a blue
collar kind of way, you know what I mean, Like
if they were to be convicted of any sort of crime,
like that's how you would kind of categorize it. Yeah,

(51:21):
and but but man was the only one on the
council that did know luthan A in a way, and
that's how it kind of all starts. You know. Like
Draven's like a military guy, so he's like he goes
off of logic and you know, strategy and everything, and yeah,
I just think with Draven eventually he was like, Okay,

(51:43):
if this is true, I think we have to gamble
on it again. It's just one of those small pieces
that like if this didn't happen, we don't have the
rest of Star Wars or the rest of the story.
You know.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
That was a great scene that was definitely like a
little highlight for me. But I think the biggest highlight
for is this, like the slow mo walk in like
the final ten minutes. Dude, he's just like and just
doing this absolute model walk, looking so suave and so
swaggy with this like and with the with the Nicholas
Bruttel score just rousing in the background, and you know,

(52:17):
the shots of like everyone's finally where they're meant to
be type of type situation. And the scene really got
to me when it's uh, Melchie his like his friend
like training all the rebels and like it's just like
a shot of them of their feet on the ground
just jogging.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
But they're also jogging in like opposite directions, yeah, towards
each other.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
I was like, Wow, the Rebellion's here, you know. I like, damn,
this this is the start of Star Wars, you know
what I mean. And so it was just like everything
just came together so perfectly by the end because at
the end of the day, this this is the story
about how the rebellion came to be in the first place,
Like this is it, Like this is the finale for

(53:02):
that and I love that so much. It was really
really well done.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Silent nod to the Force heeler.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
In slow motion, Oh yeah, yeah, he like he just did,
like the like the one little had nod a force
healer or like.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
I don't even know if he actually nods, it's just
them looking at him.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
He did. I watched it today. It was a small
little nod.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
It kind of does prove that he is the messenger
because what he goes on to do after this is like, yeah,
I mean he's the Messenger.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
And yeah, no, we didn't.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I did. I tried touching on that briefly. I don't
know if I had talked about it too much on
when I did the last pot, but I like that
she talked about him being like a messenger, like like
he he's here for a reason, has to stay here
for a reason, which led led to why Bicks had
to leave him in the first place.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
And doesn't. Also, he doesn't also Casi him self reference
himself as the messinger and rogue one, doesn't he say it,
I'm just a messenger. I could be trick.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Actually, I think I think he does.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
I think he's saying it to Gin as they're flying away.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Love that final scene, but the real final scene was
the one that that really really got me because we
we go back to.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Mino U the capital. I think it's Sinar, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I'm not sure, but Mina Row is like, but it's
it's the wheat field. The wheat field scene, and we
see b two Emo back finally and yeah no be
too Emo between email as a friend, very heartwarming stuff.
We get a shot of Bis and she's walking through
the field, and when I first watched it, I was like,

(54:45):
wait a minute, hold on it, Like it gets closer
to her and it I'm like, no way, she's holding
onto something. There's no way this is actually about to happen.
Then it flashes like in front of her and she's
sure enough holding a baby. I was like, no, oh, dude,
why why did you do this? Yeah again, you know

(55:09):
what happens to Cassiean And yet what the writers did
with Tony Gilroy did fucking destroys you. Once he get
this shot, he has a kid, he never knew him
or her. Bicks doesn't know, probably doesn't know what happens
to Cassie, and at least not for a while. But
at the end of the day, like as sad as
it is, like we briefly talked about this, it just

(55:31):
talks about like Luthen's legacy and like what gets left
behind and like what they're like. It shows you, like
what they're fighting for, and it's it's like a callback
to again Luthen's monologue in the season one where he
says fighting for a sunrise that I'll never see and
like this is like this last shot like pretty much

(55:54):
is that visually like Cassians, this is the the sunriser,
like looking to the horizon. Cassian's never gonna get to see,
but it's all for the baby that just ropes it
all like ties in a nice bow. For what Star
Wars in general is ultimately about is hope. Just great stuff,
really well done.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Which literally it's like the last fifteen minutes of episode
twelve that is the only feeling of hope that we've
ever gotten in like the entire show.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Oh yeah, like everything else feels so so bleak and
like so serious.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
It just like you know, you've sent the tracker a
couple of times and like you know, reinforced it is
the Past Present Future track, which is the song that's
playing as Cassians doing the Badmass walk, And it's like
even in the music itself, like that one specific song,
it starts out a little bit ominous and bleak, but
it like slowly becomes more positive and like closer to

(56:55):
the music that were used to within Star Wars, which
is like the like roic, more upbeat kind of like
Twin Suns kind of thing, you know, more of like
there's hope on the horizon. Yeah, it just makes you
so sad because you're like, like, like you said, we
know Cassie and dies, but like he technically is still
with us because there is his his child behind yeah,

(57:20):
that that's still alive. And it's also crazy because they
don't ever give you any sort of hint that Bix
is ever pregnant until I'm thinking of this one thing,
and it's when Vell and cass are talking about.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
They're toasting to everyone that that got you know that
got got.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah, and when and when Bell mentioned Santa, I started
bawling my eyes out. When Vell finally says, like, you know,
you should reach out and you should say something like
you should reconnect, and he's like, I don't think she'd
want that, and then she says something like like she
might want that more than you know. That is the
one only hint that we get that she's pregnant. But

(58:03):
at the time of watching it, you're like, that's too
ominous for me to guess that she's pregnant, Like I
would never like jump to that conclusion from that tiny
piece of information, you.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Know, But he thinks about it, though he like considers it.
He's like maybe when all this is like settled down,
like I'll uh.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
I'll reconnect her. But then that makes it even more
sad because it never like it does settle down. But
he's he doesn't see the day where it does sit down.
You know, it's masterful. It was really hard for me,
Like I I wanted to have expectations of the show,
but there was nothing throughout the entire show where I
was like, I think this is gonna happen. I think

(58:42):
that's gonna happen. Like I had no idea what to expect. Okay,
Luthan dying that was one thing where I was like,
that's probably gonna happen, because yeah, if he lives, then
people are gonna be like, oh, well where is he
now in the future time, and are they gonna do
more you know, content about him, and you know all

(59:03):
that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's just perfect. I mean,
even like talking about the ending of it right now,
I'm just I'm so like mournful but happy at the
same time.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
You're sad because and Or's over, and we met. We
may never get good star.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Wars like this ever.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Again, we don't know, but it does give us hope.
Exactly the way that and Or ends, it's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Yeah, I definitely turned on Rogue One. Like I mean,
it was really late at night. I just like I
binged all three episodes. It must have been like twelve
fifteen or something, but I had to turn on Rogue one.
You know, now has to turn on immediately at least
up until like we meet up cass with Cassie and
on on Caffriine. And it's crazy because at the time

(59:51):
when you when I first watched the movie after getting
this information, he straight up just like kills this guy.
I was just like, oh wow, like this is really
different Star Wars, like we just killed someone. But now
after like getting through and or like this kill reminds
me of like yeah, the first season, the first episode,

(01:00:15):
Yeah no, And but it also just reminds me of like, oh,
this is like some straight up like like Luthan would
do something this cold, you know, and he straight up
did like in the in the opening sequence of episode ten,
he killed Lannie, and like both of them are just like,
you know, I think both of them are just so
far gone and like they understand like the weight of

(01:00:35):
all this and that dude had a messed up like
he wasn't going anywhere he can cast he couldn't risk
that shite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
And it's like it's the whole Like, what's the death
of a potentially innocent person saving the lives of you know, millions,
hundreds of millions, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
One little complaint that I have At the end, when
they're all on scaiff trying to transmit the plans, K
two gets like blasted so hard.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
He just gets lit up by his stormtroopers.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
And then in uh, like during the Gorman massacre, like
everybody's trying to shoot these K two droids and they're
essentially blaster proof, So like what happened here? Like why
is K two getting messed up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, it's like the one continuity error I think that
you could possibly point out you know it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
I don't get it. But but it's it's it's neither
here that it's like twenty twenty hindsight, right, like you can't, Yeah,
for sure, you can't write it season two of and
or and then go back and rewrite Rogue one, you know,
because no, I get that. I only say that because
I know that there's like so many other people out
there that Yeah, but you know, I mean, K two

(01:01:50):
does have to die at some point, but you know
how you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Know they all have to they all have to go
at some point. When you first saw Rogue one, did
you think like Gin and Cassian like had feelings for
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Like a romantic kind of relationship. Yeah, yes, I definitely did.
I think it was hard not to feel that way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
It's funny because now we're like obviously looking at it
in a different lens after and or just knowing what
Cassian and Bix had, and now I'm more so like, okay, yeah,
I know, maybe they didn't, but they're just like some
shots in Rogue one where it's like like after they

(01:02:32):
transmit the plans on Scariff and then they're like helping
each other into this elevator, like the way that they're
looking into each other's eyes, and like, no.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
There's definitely something else going on here, I guess in a.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Way, like from my perspective, like what I how I
could see it is kind of like how you already said,
is that Cassian is looking at Gin as though he
was looking at Bix. Yeah, like he's wishing that it
was Bix the entire time. That's subjective, you know, there's
nowhere there's no piece of information that says that, but definitely,

(01:03:04):
like without having and or out, you're like, Okay, they
definitely have feelings for each other. But again, even within
just Rogue One, it's like what they're doing and what
their purpose is. I think they both probably feel that
they don't have an opportunity to really love another person
for much longer, you know, like they know that they're.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Gonna they're gonna die.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
They're gonna die. So it's like like we could do it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
But we could do it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
And I'm not saying like do it as an it,
but you know, like we could we like we could
love each other. And they do love each other in
a way, it's in a different light. I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
No, yeah, I get what you're saying. I hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
But yeah, so I guess that's it. What else do
you and did you have anything else? Like final thoughts
on and or saying goodbye to and or type of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
You you know, I did sometimes hypothesize of how they
would do the very very final scenes of like like
what is gonna be the Darth Vader transition into a
new hope from Rogue one? Like what's it gonna be
for and or into into Rogue one because we've already
been like told that prior to the season two coming

(01:04:18):
out from Diego Luna, and like a lot of the
cast is like it's gonna transition pretty much perfectly into
Rogue one. So I was kind of thinking of, like,
how is it gonna look? Is it? Are we gonna
see the scene of you know, the long blades of
grass like waving in the field where Galen and uh
Lira are with Jin, Like, is that gonna be the

(01:04:38):
scene that's gonna put it into Rogue one? But it
ended up just being uh saw looking out the window
of the uh the spot that he's holed up in
and seeing the isd over Jetta City, and I was like, damn, Okay,
that's pretty good. I wasn't expecting that that. That's pretty

(01:04:58):
damn good. Just like thinking about the timelines because when
you do see that at the end of and Or
season two, I saw is not old and he doesn't
have the the mask yet, so he's not it's not
fully into Rogue one, but it's pretty damn close.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
But no, it is because he's already on Jedda but
at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
But no, but he he is. But I think he's
on Jetta for a lot longer than we cause like
in Rogue one, he's got he's like way older, well
way older air quote, he's got gray hairs, hairs longer,
and he just looks older. I don't know if that's
intentional or like it's definitely the same year, but I
don't know. It's it's hard for me to put the

(01:05:41):
pieces together. But outside of that, yeah, I mean I
think you kind of you kind of said it like
when we were texting about it. Jin is like the
final missing piece to the equation of how they're actually
going to beat the Empire. Not like we didn't get
that feeling already kind of from Rogue one prior to
the and Or coming out, but now it's just like solidified.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
It is quite jarring to watch Rogue one after and
Or just because it's not it kinda isn't about him anymore,
but you know, it is what it is. Like, Jin's
a good character, and like I think her arc in
Rogue one fits like the overall like what like what
all the other characters went through in in and Or,

(01:06:27):
Like everyone kind of has to like you know, come
into their own like rebellion type thing because at the
beginning of Rogue One, Jin's kind of running away from
it all. Like one of the lines that always interested
me was like when it's hearn Saw talking and she
pretty much just didn't want to be like part of
his rebel group anymore, so she like ditched them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
He's talking about like have you never seen like the
the imperial flags like waving across the sky, and then
Jin's just like kind of ignorant to it. She's like,
it's not an issue if you don't like look up
at the flags.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Yeah, Like ignorance is bliss.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Like one of my favorite, probably my favorite scene in
the movie is when Matts Michelson. It's like the hologram
of him explaining, like everything I did meet building the
Death Star was all like for you because I laid
my trap and all that stuff. Like she she would
have fit in the show too, if they decided to
bring her in, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Well, And it's like Jean's like her hesitance and like
her wanting to be ignorant of everything is understandable because
she's born in this very predict precarious situation, like she
is the daughter of the scientist who pretty much invented
the death star, you know. So it's like it's not
like she was raised in the rebellion or anything. Well,

(01:07:42):
I mean she was, but it's not like she really
had a choice. I mean, what choice do you have
when you're born in that kind of situation. You know
you're gonna be dragged into it, whether you're on the
side of the empire or not. So yeah, I mean
I agree with you, though, I she definitely would have fit.
It's just that Saw news so much about how powerful

(01:08:04):
of a character or like of a role that she
is in the timeline of everything. You know, obviously he's
gonna be extremely persistent on like keeping her safe or
sheltering her, you know, those kinds of things. And I
think Saw is the perfect person out of anybody in
the rebellion to do it, because he will do whatever

(01:08:25):
it fucking takes. Like he's he's like Lupin just a
little bit more radical, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
A lot He's like, yeah, no, towards towards the end
of and or like he's still like everyone's already like
roped in together and like all the rebels are banded
together at Yafn, and he's still trying to do like
his radical shit on Jedda. He's like, you have no
idea where I am, Like, yeah, no, we know you're
on Jedda, dude, Like we literally have the information. We

(01:08:52):
literally have guys in your crew. Yeah, reporting back to us.
Not be nitpicky, but like, if there's anything that I
could like complained about and wants to see more of,
is probably like saw in his group of rebels, like
seeing them, like more of them in action, I agree,
seeing more of that unhing shit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Yeah, them just like you know, disobeying orders constantly and
just like doing whatever they want, but like you know,
blowing some shit up on another planet that's important to
the imperior, you know, to the empire.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
And also that kind of reminds me like was and
were originally actually supposed to be five seasons.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
That's what my buddy was telling me, as I was
supposed to be five seasons, and.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
I I could see them going that far because if
you think about like just telling the story of Gorman,
like how many more stories of small rebel cells can
you tell?

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
But rebels kind of already did that, so it's like,
maybe don't do that, you know, it's already kind of
been done a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
That'd been crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Of those five seasons, I don't think it would have
been as impactful if it was that long.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Yeah, it honestly, it kind of feels like it would
have been like dragged out a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, like three seasons, Yeah, I could get along with that,
but five is a little force pushing it. Five's too much.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
I think, you know, that's all I have. That's all
I have on and or.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Out of a fantastic ride just makes me hope, Like
I just like if there's anything that I'll end on,
it's that Star Wars needs to keep this creative team around,
not to say that it's like, oh like make more
and or or whatever. Like all of them, like all
the directors, all the writers made some of the best

(01:10:41):
stuff ever. And like if they could cook with like
a show like this, I feel like they can cook
with other stuff too.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Yeah, I agree. I mean they kind of took the
formula of like what the Mandalorian did where it was
a lot of different They that's what they need to do.
They just need to kind of explore subgenres within Star
Wars right stories, because like this Star Wars is pretty

(01:11:08):
much like in you know, in general is just like
action sci fi fantasy, right, but this is the same thing,
but it's a political drama like underneath well first and foremost,
and then you have all of that on top of it.
So like, how many more sub genres of things can
you explore or slash write within the universe? And I
think the answer is like close to infinite, you know,

(01:11:30):
as many genres as there can be. Keep, like you said,
keep the people that have like the willingness and the
creative you know, space to be able to do this,
and cast actors actresses that are willing to get on
board with it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
We'll see, man, We'll see how it goes. I mean,
I think we have one of the and Or writers
still sticking around. They're supposedly writing the Dawn of the
Jedi movie and it's bo Willman or Willman or something
like that. He wrote the the prison arc in and
Or season one, which is amazing, which is probably Yeah,

(01:12:08):
that's like one of the better arcs.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
It's all.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
See, man, I don't even I forget what's next. It
might it must be a PSOCA season two or like
some animated show or some shit. But like t like
series wise, well not just series wise, like what's what's
like the next Star Wars thing? Well, I guess it
could be a movie that comes out in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Maybe yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Yeah, So still gotta watch Tales of the Tales of
the Underworld as so, I haven't watched it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
I haven't watched the cad Bane arc, but I watched
the Venture stuff. I think you'll really like the The
opening scene of the Venture stuff is really cool, and
then I kind of just fell off the rest, like
all right, this, yeah, this is is like okay, cool cool,
especially when.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
You got and Or out, You're like your your mind's
just like so focused on like what's happening there and
like theorizing and see everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
No, after once and Or came out, like I was
like trying to watch Severance, I was trying to watch
The Last of Us, and I just fell off.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Both of those shows. I was like, no, I'm in
and Or mode. Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Yeah yeah, well that's kind of why I'm glad I
saved it, because I was like, this isn't gonna give
me the same satisfaction as and Or has given me
right now, so let's just like finish and or, and
then give give myself a little reprieve, and then we'll
watch Tills of Tills of the Jedi.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
All right, folks, thanks for listening. That'll do it for
episode one. Be sure to follow us on all our
socials kyber Culture on Instagram, Twitter, and letterbox where anywhere
you get your podcasts. Give us a rating and a
review and we will catch you guys next time.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
So peace to force me with you for