Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn
s e O and JP Sorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He's a lapsed fan and all my years and wrestling.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I never seen anything And it's the laps fan man
like the one in the ring. Forget about Sado. He
the real king of swing.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
When the bell.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Goes in the kick like me throwing in the corner,
but gets rash like stick even Jerry King gets take off.
The crowd nodded in his head like its Steve low Brown.
Would you get low down? We go even high up?
Speaker 5 (00:39):
Flipp you on your head, but you know cool driver,
you speak more and Dragon spits fire, give you more
shock than when he treats higher drop a more truth
than the con of sniper unless you with a coconut,
Roddy Pipper Jack a JP. He like j h D
drop the cupcakes and gold the brain Bob means the
best podcast Frost start the close cloud.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
If you all been a floss and Pose.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
A month out from his debut with World Championship Wrestling,
Hull Hogan took to turn her owned CNN's Showbiz Tonight.
He had just come off his movie Misadventures Right Boss
with mister Nanny, Thunder and Paradise as well. Yes, most
recently mister nd Loom turn Paradise said Yes. Indeed he
(01:27):
was by this point as much of less celebrity as
he was a wrestler, or at.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Least in his own line, he was his own life.
Sure it seemed to be what he was reaching for
at least.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
And here on Showbiz Today June seventh, nineteen ninety four,
he tries to get Well back on track the idea
that Hull Hogan had gone irretrievably Hollywood, because boss, what
happens when you go Hollywood but Hollywood doesn't go you? Well,
(01:57):
I think you get a valth on them back in
this Easy's phone ring, I think presenting the back and
forth as featured way back in nineteen ninety four to
set the stage for our coverage of WCW Bash at
the Beach nineteen ninety four and the WCWD of Hulkvie
host is Lauren Sidney, and she brings us in this way, and.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Of course you know who's going to do Hulk. Oh yeah.
Speaker 7 (02:24):
Haul.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Colgan parlayed his incredible career as a wrestler into film
and TV roles. He currently stars in the syndicated hit
Thunder and Paradise, but it was paradised this weekend when
it was announced that Hulk signed a deal with World
Championship were Wrestling.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Did you send this to me?
Speaker 8 (02:37):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, right in the chat window. There. Oh it's the
chat window. Sorry, I wasn't looking the chat window. I
wasn't going to you know. Oh, there we go. Perfect.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
There it is looking back in the ring early this summer.
But we've got him now. I'm from Atlanta, the creator
of Hulkamania. My god, we come up with it in
a writer from the creator. I typed it out or something.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
The creator of hul Comania. Welcome the show is today. Help,
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (03:06):
Now, why did you decide to come out of retirement
once again?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Why? Now, well, you know, it's really tough. The whole
time I was at Disney MGM filming Thunder in Paradise.
We were there for six months doing twenty two shows,
everybody said, Hulk Hogan, you know when you're gonna get
back on the ring. And the one question that really
was driving me crazy was they were saying, Hulk Hogan,
can you beat Rick Flair? Even my son Nicholas and
(03:31):
my daughter, were asking no name for no name for
the daughter.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
No, Actually he'd never, I would say never. But he
names here a lot less than he does Nick Back
when he's on this I have kids to charm offensive.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Interesting, you know, even my son Nicholas and my daughter nameless.
We're asking the same question. That's why I'm here with TBS,
with the WCW. That's why I'm getting back on the ring.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Okay, if Rick Flair happens to be watching at this
very moment, what do you want to say to him?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
You know, Rick Flair, what you're going to do when
Hulk Hogan and the largest arms in the world destroy you.
Speaker 6 (04:05):
Now, one thing Rick Flair might know is that you
haven't really wrestled a lot in the past three years.
So why are you in your usual Hulk shape?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, I'll tell you. You know, I'm really in better
shape than I've been before. You know, I've lost a
little bit away, I've caught a lot of fat off
my body. You know, I've I've the pythons. I've i've
the pythons pumped up. And I'll bring the Rick Flair
And if Rick Flair ever gets in the ring with me,
and I'll trick him into getting in the ring by
signing a contract with me. I can beat him right
(04:34):
in front of the whole world. I wouldn't doubt that. Now,
what about this new gig? Is that going to take
any time away from your acting career? Are you worried
about that at all?
Speaker 9 (04:42):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Not really, thunder in Paradise. Like I said, we're done
with the Sea this season. Uh with We're done this
season with Dude's shows except for the post production and looping.
You know that looping is part of the wrestling hulk
is I have to work the loop? Ah? I mean
fucking crazy that he actually fucking says that. And being
(05:04):
one of the producers of the show and one of
the owners of the show, one of the bookers of
the show, I've kind of got the artistic liberty to
have holes in the shooting schedule where I want to wrestle,
you know, during the week or on the weekends, or
whatever I want to do. I can make I can
make myself available.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
So you're the king of everything you do? Huh, Well,
I'm getting you have control of it all. Well, I
we're real lucky in all this year. And now you
mentioned your two kids at the beginning of the interview.
Is this what you wear at your home on like
on Father's Day? Well, on Halloween, I'm pretty much the
Hulk of the neighborhood. You're also the Hulk of the neighborhood,
(05:42):
but it's not Halloween exactly, and I'm actually, you know,
I'm a hole with the neighborhood all the time. I'm
only Terry Blain inside house. If you don't wear that.
Well on Halloween, I'm pretty much the Hulk of the neighborhood,
if you know what I mean. The kids come over
to the house and they always call me Hulkster, Hulk Hogan,
especially in the neighborhood, and sometimes I have a hard
(06:05):
time even, you know, get my home kids to call
me dad.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
But the only you should.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Interview with not naming Brooke and getting his kids having
a hard time calling him dad. You sure this didn't
come out last week as opposed to nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, the only time the red and yellow stays outside
the front door when I come in because oh no,
the only time the red and yellow stays outside the
front door when I come in because my wife won't
let Hulk of Mania run while in my household Halloween,
I'm the best hole in the neighborhood.
Speaker 6 (06:38):
And what about that outfit? Is that what you usually
wear around the house?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
This outfit? Yeah, oh, come on, are you kidding around
the house? But you know, no, no, I around the house,
But in the wrestling ring, I wear I wear it
in there right before I get ready to tear the
shirt off. What about your movie career, movie career, where
is that going to go? Yeah? Fucking in there. Movie
(07:11):
career question mark is just hilarious. We talked about movie exactly,
like who have you even?
Speaker 8 (07:19):
Like?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I was like, are you Terrible A does the movie queer?
Speaker 9 (07:23):
Dude?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So I'm gonna just wonder what what what's going on here?
Speaker 6 (07:26):
And I was definitely. I definitely made it clear. And
our communications with your people that you wanted hul Cogan
on the show were not Terry bole. I would have
been glad to bring Terry Blaya, but you told me
you wanted huld Hogan.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, look, you got hul Cogan's cock. You don't have
Terry blays cock, right.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
And then you doubled Then then you doublecross me, brother
by bringing up something that only Terrible would know about
what's next dude, you asked for Tory Blay is social security,
and I we're gonna ask.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We're gonna ask. You asked to have sex with Terriblay's
wife exactly, Brother, that might that might be fine. I
have to ask him. Dude, I know that I know
that I can let you have sex with Bubb's wife. Well,
you know, right now I'm called I called traded on
the syndicated television to Thunder and Paradise. I'm saying it
(08:09):
like it's the first time I mentioned on the entire show.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
He says, well, right now, I concentrated onto the syndicated
television hill Thunder and Paradise everyone, and we're taking it
home going. Ah yes, yes, yes, yes, I is ah.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Thundering Paradise, Yes, very good. I yesy indication, yes yes yes.
It's like he's mentioned thunder in Paradise like three or
four times already.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
It's almost like it's a Turner adjacent.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah. Production. The last the last movie I did before
before that was Mister Nanny. It was basically for the
children audience, so that the whole families could come. Yeah.
I'm like, I like to do more movies if I
have the time. But right now I'm focusing on the
WCW and the wrestlers in the Turner organization, and it's
my first love. I can't let it go. I mean,
(08:52):
you know, once you get hooked in this wrestling and
once you see how cool it is, how entertaining it
is for the whole family, I mean, it's the best
boy on the market, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Best buy on the market is how Hulk Hogan referred
to his frame of mind. We were all Hulka maniacs.
We've talked about it a million times over ten years
of the lapsed fan, the trial of his life, Hulk
Hogan posters looking up to his bodybuilding ways, trying to
follow the demandments as best we could, lunch boxes, backpacks,
(09:23):
Halloween costumes, T shirts, foam fingers, has bros, you know
the rest. And so for our generation of Hulky maniacs,
it was quite jarring when Yokozuna sat on his face
at King of the Ring ninety three brutal and we
didn't see him again. In the WWF. We talked a
lot about those fleeting days of Hulkamania on the show,
(09:45):
having covered several pay per views where those things take place,
not the lease of which King of the Ring ninety
three and Mania nine, but what happens between then and
Hull Cogan's WCWW and what were the set of conditions
that led to Bash at the Beach? So what's up
with this whole thing about not wrestling in three years?
They hit that so hard on the broadcast, didn't they?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I just like and the fact that it was brought
up here in this interview, I was gonna wait, but
I was like that that was So that is so
bizarre to me because even if okay, even if you
want to take away like the idea that he didn't
wrestle a lot in ninety three, even though he did
all summer long, if I'm not mistaken, right he was
in England, Yes to that, absolutely he was. And but
(10:29):
so if you want to erase that, let's just say
that didn't happen. He still wrestled in like, was wrestling
regularly in early ninety two, So that's two years if like.
But they're implying. What they're implying is that he hasn't
wrestled since basically WrestleMania seven. But they're implying I mean
eventing WrestleMania eight and nine.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
Is that Hulk Hogan hasn't wrestled since his name hit
the press being associated with steroids. Oh my god, how
easy we forget? What was That's one of the key
storyline lynch pins when we got to the Hulk Cogan
testimony when we did Vince McMahon's trial, that Hulk Hogan
testified three days before Bash at the Beach nineteen Ninety's right,
(11:11):
that's very true. Yes, yes, yes, already inked up with Turner,
already ready to go to the competition, already having declared
himself firmly and unequivocally the enemy of Vince McMahon. Vince's first,
well not his first, but his biggest sort of best
friend turned worst enemy story. And that's quite a long list.
Everyone's done a turn on that list if they've been
(11:33):
a superstar. For Vince McMahon and for Hulk Hogan, it
was an unbelievably strange time because while he had movies,
he had television, he had this very lucrative WCW offer.
He also was absolutely in the pits from a public
relations perspective due to his tie ups and associations with
illegal steroid use. Or allegedly illegal steroid use, arguably illegal
(11:55):
steroid use. And so for Hogan, look, look, look, I
don't do steroids. I'm not addicted to steroids.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
At any time I did and they were legal, and
whenever I do, whenever I do do them, they are legal.
Speaker 6 (12:08):
I don't know if you know, but the statute actually
moves with hul Hoagan.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
So there are times, you know, there are times when
they're legal, and there are times when they're not legal.
I'll just make sure I do it when it's all legal.
Speaker 6 (12:20):
So if I say I haven't wrestled in three years,
that means I haven't taken steroids in like six and brother,
I'm just legal then three hundred and you know, he
has five hundred days in a year. He works twice
on Sundays. He fits nine days in a week. I mean,
it's all part and parcel.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It seems normal, dude.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
It's so this whole thing. I'm going to WCW it
is as absolutely hull coke and as it gets. And
shout out to whoever it was in the Solar system
who noted recently they never did bash at the beach
ninety four. No we didn't, No, we didn't know. And
if you are to believe Bubba the Love Sponge, which
the TNH Journey tells you, it is a bad idea
and a good idea. At the same time, we might
(13:00):
not have the Hulkster around much longer, at least not
in a form where he can continue to contribute to
the canon of the things Hulk covi and has thought
and said and did and added to the vast tapestry
of one of the most important characters, of course in
the history of professional rostling, but also in the history
of this very podcast.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 6 (13:20):
Bash at the Beach ninety four his WCW debut, his
first sort of cutting of the ties from Vince McMahon
post to the hule Co mania phenomenon from eighty four
to ninety three. That can't go, that can't go quietly observed,
that can be observed.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Can't go thunder observed?
Speaker 9 (13:39):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
It was a show, I mean, it's kind of it
actually has been a show that at least we have
talked in the past, back when we did it a
little bit differently, when we did a tribute show instead
of a tribute journey. For those who die are those
are those who die? Who are worthy. I should say that,
(14:01):
you know this was going to be that show because
we kind of done right all of the other ones
that would have meant something, you know that were a
highlight yep. But yeah, it's it is, it is so
it is kind of fitting, you know, if if the
time has come when we lose the and when the
(14:22):
immortal one becomes mortal.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
Wow, becoming mortal, it's definitely You're definitely right. That shift
in how we've approached tributes just it almost makes it
more necessary to do Bash of the Beach ninety four
before we lose Hulk. Yes, yes, because there's so much
to get under our belt. There's so many pieces, you know,
you go back to paying off the Pacific. He's going
(14:45):
to Japan right in this interregnant period between WWF ANDWSW.
He's working Mudha, He's working Muda. He's throwing a leg
over the arm on a bent over opponent and then
front flipping into a straight arm bar. He's dropped toe
holding and shifting to an STF. He's gurrying because because
that that Matt is not grayish blue, That Matt is bright,
(15:08):
bright blue, and that means we've got to work out there.
Catch has to catch can Yep. Yes, indeed I can.
You can tell he brought some of his uh his
uh Japanese influences into the match with Ric Flair. Welcome
to tlf's Bash at the Beach nineteen ninety four coverage.
I simply ask you to start memories.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Boss, memories of Bash the Beach.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
I mean, you were You've said it so many times
it needs to be said again right here for posterity.
You you you got very nervous when Hasbro Legends jump ship.
You didn't know how to feel, yes, when your favorites
made the jump. But if Hulk Hogan makes the jump,
that is a different story.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Totally different story. I was because as I as I've
said many times that I started watching wrestling at the
very tail end of the Hulk Hogan era, you know,
late ninety one, and then he's gone to ninety two.
Like I felt completely jypped. I felt like, are you
kidding me? Like as soon as I start watching, he
(16:13):
quote unquote retires. Then he came back, and I thought,
we're going to get him again. Cause my mind, let
me tell you this is this is how my mind works,
being such a fan yep of the Royal Rumble. All right,
I had never seen I'd never like, I'd never been
able to purchase a Royal Rumble with hul Cogan in.
(16:33):
It always watched on tape, right, it was always watched
on tape. So that's what I wait. I wanted more
than anything, even more than him winning a championship. I
wanted him to win a Royal Rumble that I was
watching live. And let me ask you a question, did
you ever get that?
Speaker 9 (16:49):
No?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Nope, never, never will And so you know when the
ninety three thing happened, it was that was I was excited.
I was like, oh my god, he's back. Yes, he's back,
and he's going to be in the Royal Rumbland ninety four.
He's gonna do it. And then he wins the title
(17:14):
and it's like, okay, well great, even better, big fan
of that. And he loses the title and I started
getting a little nervous because, like I had, I was like,
you know, you know, there was one there was one
(17:34):
little glimmer of hope that he wasn't gone. I had
the feeling if he lost the belt at King of
the Ring, he was gone. I don't know why I
knew that, but I just felt it. I felt it
in my heart that if he lost at d Yokozuna,
he was gone. Maybe it's because Bobby Heenan, who an
incredible irony, ends up in the commentary chair for Hogan's
(17:57):
WCW debut, but was also in the commentary chair for
Hulk Cogan's last televised WF match. That's a very that
is that is very that's a good point, screams, good point.
Hel Comania is dead. Maybe that's what drove it home
to your young impression. But no, but I didn't watch
it live. I didn't watch it live, so like that
didn't that didn't affect me as much. Like it was
(18:18):
really the idea that when I tuned into Monday Night
Raw that Hulk Hogan had lost the belt to Yokozuna,
I was like, oh shit, and even leading up to it,
like like leading up to it, if he lost, like
I just I don't know why I had this feeling,
but I had a feeling that if he lost, it
was gonna he was gonna be gone. But but the
glimmer of hope was this. I did know he had
(18:41):
at least one date scheduled after the King of the Ring,
which was he was wrestling in Boston in a tag
team match with with I wanted to go, but I
didn't go. He was wrestling with Beefcake against the Beverly
Brothers against the who the Beverly Brothers. And so you
knew this, and you I knew. I knew because I
(19:03):
was your anchor.
Speaker 9 (19:04):
That was it.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Like, Okay, he's there, so I know he's going to
be there past King of the Ring. But then he
was gone, and they started hyping up the fucking and
and I knew he was gone, Like you know, I
know we've talked about how how everyone thought that he
was in the helicopter when Lex Luger came down. I
know I didn't. He was gone when he when he
(19:26):
stopped showing up right away, I knew he was gone
for good. Can I ask you a question? Yes? What
else was gone when you realized he was gone? My childhood,
my innocence, my my my hope, my hope that I
(19:49):
would experience a Hulk Hogan era. Wow, that's all I wanted.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
And so let me ask you, does his debut in
WCW Redangle that hope.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
His debut, well, I mean most things, just not a
just not a royal rumble. Sadly, I thought he'd win
a fucking World War three, but that didn't happen either.
So when he come when it's announced, So I I
had an inkling yes, because I had the PWI issue
(20:24):
with Hogan, with Hogan, Jimmy Hart and Flair on the cover,
and that came out like what months before, a couple
of months before. So I was like, holy shit, what
did that tell you?
Speaker 9 (20:37):
That?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Did cover tell you?
Speaker 8 (20:39):
That?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Cover told me that whole Cogan Mike and is likely
going to the w CW. And I part of me
was like, he can't go to WW right, that's what
I want to get to. Yep, that's ridiculous. But at
the same time, can he please go to w CW.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
Can I repeat what you just said, he can't go
to w CW. That's ridiculous, But at the same time,
can he please go to w c W. Can you
open your email quickly?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yes? Oh? Did you tell me what you got? Tell
me what you see? I'm getting there, I'm getting there.
Why didn't you update, motherfucker? Why didn't you update yet?
Why didn't you updating? You're making me nervous? Now I
got nothing? Yeah, you get you know, in coming over
the interwea. I slowly but surely, there we go. Oh
(21:33):
my god, what do you see?
Speaker 9 (21:35):
Oh my god?
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yes, that's the fucking thing I had the I mean,
the making of a super stable that that didn't fucking
that didn't. That meant nothing to me. I was like,
what do you have fucking Hogan and Flair together? No,
you have to have photo each other. Yeah. I I
was like, yeah, yes, I remember. I saw that at
Shaw's Market, okay in Milford, New Hampshire, and it fucking
(22:02):
blew my mind and it made me just like the
everything just went Like I said, he can't go, but
god do I hope he fucking does go, because I
just wanted to have a hul Cogan era. You know,
that was it.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
April ninety four, Pro Wrestling illustrated Rick Flair in a
long sleeve Armani black shirt and tan slacks, with his
feet kicked up with the black socks and the loafers on,
sitting back as if he's sort of entertaining Hulk Hogan,
almost like Hulk Hogan's berating him in his office. Hulk
Red Bandanna finger pointed at Rick Flair, accusingly ready to
(22:43):
go Jimmy Harp just to Hogan's elbow, reading over what
appears to be a contract. The headline Hogan, Flair and
Heart's secret meeting and p w I was there.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
So it's not that secret. Then PWI was there anymore.
Speaker 6 (23:00):
And while we wouldn't have known this based on, you know,
how naive we were as young wrestling fans at the time,
the fact that this is in the pages of PWI
also highly significant because PWI was in much closer allegiance
with World Championship Wrestling, right they were that famously. You know,
when Vince consolidates power, he banishes PWI from press credentialing,
(23:23):
and they can no longer shoot photographs at ringside, and
they no longer have backstage access to interview WWF wrestlers.
And it's pretty clear if you follow the after mag's
response to that bout of aggression, they start more aggressively
covering WCW, more aggressively putting WCW wrestlers on the cover,
actually appearing on WCW and NWA television shows for like
(23:44):
Desk news segments with Bill after doing interviews in the such.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Well, and then also too just the idea that forever.
You know, they would you know, other wrestlers would take
photos for the awards, not not WWE, right, they would
always use a They would pose for photos, is what
you're saying the other wrestlers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
And who is on the cover of the Year end
nineteen ninety four Pro Wrestling Illustrated issue for Wrestler of
the Year holding his trophy proudly.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Hullgan ul Cogan. Also also, by the way, the first
ever fucking time they ever gave a trophy out right,
it was always a plaque, but new for hull Cogan,
it was a fucking trophy. Knowing this, you know, after
I was thinking, brother, you know it's Russell the Year, dude,
and why don't we God stut this thing up a
little bit, can't take it up at that next level.
And brother, like I just like I didn't just get
(24:36):
a scholarship from the Lions Club, dude. This is like
serious business, dude. No, dude, every want to you know it,
because every award gets a plaque, but Russell of the Year, dude,
that should kind of come be something a little you know,
a little bit extra dude, but maybe only do this
year or not in a year after.
Speaker 6 (24:50):
I mean, you can sell it afterwards. Brother, So what
do you say you want to go down to page
twenty four and get us back?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeh, we do, be yes, I fucking do. This magazine
cover would center you. This was in the arsenal.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
I didn't know when I was going to employ it,
but I feel like the time is now. I feel
like the time is now because this is April ninety four.
He doesn't come until July. But they start the television
teases a lot of people forget.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
This right right cool. They started at the super Brawl,
they started talking super Brawl four. When we did that,
that was the kind of the first time. Yep. It
was insane.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
And it coincides with Dusty Rhodes stepping away from the
booking and Rick Flair taking the book back over and
all all that meant in terms of his his ability
to pick up the phone and talk to hul Cogan
or hul Cogan's willingness to even call Rick Flair. And
one thing everybody says, from Hulk to Eric to everyone
involved were of course Rick himself, that Rick is really
the indispensable piece of getting hulkocin to come to WCW
(25:49):
because nobody else could have made him comfortable that he
could come in to WCW against an opponent that would
help him shine, that wouldn't look to undercut him, that
would protect him, creatively, protect the gimmick, make them look good,
create heat, and basically get him off to the start
he wanted to get off. He wanted to pick up
that whole Comnia era right where it left off in WWF.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
What did so how well did they know each other
before he Flair came to WWE in ninety one, hardly
at all? They had hardly at all.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Yeah, cross paths. When Flair was champion going to Georgia
Champions of Presting television tapings late seventies, well he wasn't
champion yet, he was a mid Atlantic champ, but he
was going to Georgia and Hogan was coming through with
Sterling Colden. So he had known him a bit from
that point in time. But after that, not only did
their paths diverge, but they were, as we all know,
(26:42):
the defining debate of the eighties. You were a Hogan
kind of wrestling fan or a Rick Flair kind of
wrestling fan, right? And did they become like were they were?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
They did. They become friends during that run, Like did
they talking about Georgia talking about WWF No, wwe yes
very much ninety one yes, wow, okay, because Flair was
his conciliatory to Hulk because he wasn't nobody else. Flair
doesn't have to come in and beat you. Flaire has
to come in and make you look good to earnest paycheck.
And Hulk was all years for that. While the match
didn't take place at WrestleMania eight, as perhaps many of
(27:13):
us fantasized about and it felt should have happened. You know,
most people know by now, throughout October and the September, October, November,
even through December, I'll cross the circuit for the WWF,
Hulk and Flair are going one on one, be it Dayton, Ohio, Oakland, California,
Madison Square, Garden, and many venues in between. And it
was in working those matches that Hulk Rick gained the
(27:36):
trust of Hulk Hogan because yeah, yeah, because he was
out there playing ball, he was out there keeping it easy.
He was pliable to the things Hulk didn't want to do. Yep.
And one is trust and also too, something very interesting
too is that and it actually and it kind of
occurs in this in this match somewhat, is that Flair
(27:59):
was able to kind of kind of play with the
formula a little bit of the Hogan. Well, if you
look at so if you look at I have you
seen any of the ninety one shows, like they have
one on them. Yeah, So if you look at that,
Hogan will like drop the leg in the middle of
(28:20):
the match, and he'll and he'll or he'll go forward
or something like that in a weird way. Whereas if
you look at any Hogan match, you know, any big
Hogan match or whatever, you know, it's always Hogan waiting
to the very very end. But in that especially ifically
that that Madison Square Garden one that I think was
in the summer or like September that's on in the
(28:42):
old school section, he does like Hogan, it's like all
over the place. It's all over the place like this
the match like it's not the typical Hogan formula, and
it was. And I don't know if you did that
on house shows altogether or what, but I did. I
just noticed because on this show, Hogan goes with the
leg drop in the middle of the match as if
he's as if he's doing any other like, you know,
(29:04):
as if it's my current day where uh you know,
you got uh my mom going for a stone cold
stunner in the middle of the match, you know, instead
of waiting for the end like she normally does, right
my mom, you know, shorthand for any random person. Yeah,
I mean person you know where he does it in
the middle of the match and he misses. That's just
(29:26):
not that's not a whole Cogan match. That's that to me,
feels like Rick Flair's influence saying, hey, you know Nodden,
you know, like just uh uh that's win him over.
Huh Hogan, look at me right in the eye. I'm
(29:48):
gonna tell you something you don't like. You gotta do
a leg drop in the middle of the match, you know,
And he does, and he misses, and then he does
a boot like these are all movie. He doesn't do
like these are supposed to be at the very end.
But it's exciting that he's switching it up. And to me,
it only happens with Ric Flair. Yeah, I think you nail.
Rick is somebody one of the few people that Hulk
(30:10):
would trust to lead the match, to call her outside
the lines to protect Hulk in his you know essence
the whole time. Remember how hard it was to get
him in the ring with Vader. Yeah, and then you
see the Vader match and you kind of see, like, Okay,
if Hulk doesn't trust that when you lead the match,
he's going to be protected and he's not going to
(30:31):
be made to look too weak, or he's not going
to be made to look like the weak baby face
compared to the badass heel. It can fall apart quick,
or he'll pull a fast one on you. Flair was
somebody that you can lead the match because I'm confident
that by the time the final bell rings you're good
enough at what you do that the people are going
to be with me. And for him to walk into WCW,
a place that you know, had its identity wrapped up
(30:52):
in being the antithesis of Hulk Hogan and what Hulk
Hogan style wrestling meant. Even if the promotion and the
executives wanted to change that from Jim Hurd on down,
the fans did not want to seed that ground. Necessarily,
there needed to be an an influx of w w
F wrestling fans like yourself yep, to come in, to
come to the w CW table, to change the dynamic
(31:14):
of what would have happened if you know, even uttered
the name Halkogan and a WCW arena prior to his arrival. So,
Flair's a guy who's just so good. And I can
tell you, I can tell you, honest to God that
that that during from from the Class of the Champions
in May or June May, I don't remember April or
(31:35):
May which one you talked about, Cedar raptids when he
does the promos, yeah, and Flair and Flair unites the
Belt and that's that's June. It is June, Okay. So
so when he from that moment on, okay, that is
the most I ever watched WCW from there. From from
that until Halloween Havoc, I watched so much WCW because
(32:00):
I was so invested in hul Hogan being back. That's
one of the reasons I so love talking about this
Hogan era with you is because you are that fan.
This this is my this is my Hogan era. You
are I've came because of this, yeah, yeah, and it's
like and and the the funny you know it, I've
(32:20):
talked about this before, but in whenever I played my
video games and I'm setting up my promotions, I never
start off Hogan in WWE. He's always in WCW. I've
always got to have him in WCW because and it's
so strange, even though I watched all that, but this
is the only time I ever experienced the Hull Hogan
(32:42):
era was when he was in ww As It Happened,
the Last.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the boys
(33:19):
need their candy. It's the Lapsed Fan. He's the Lapsed
(33:55):
Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnacio and JP Sara.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
As It Happened. You know he he is in many
ways more of a WCW wrestler to me than he
was a WWE wrestler. That it's fascinating because you know,
I'm the same vintage as you. And I'm sitting here
thinking myself, how much of my understanding and falling in
love with hulkokein was memorys Like there was the Rest
(34:25):
Many seven, I watched live, Summer Slim ninety, I watched live.
I watched those things happen. But now when you look
at the full sweep, which I wasn't aware of at
the time of his run. That's, of course, that's the fumes.
That's like the last couple of years there, Yes, where
they're kind of feeling around the dark wrestlem in the
eight as well. But yeah, when I the only reason
I'm acquainted with and have a feeling of warmth about
eighty four to ninety in particular ninety rumble right, yep,
(34:49):
it's because the videotapes that the Warrior match, the Andre match.
We went to the Pontiac Silverdome thirty years after Wrestling
three and walked that place and we and it tugged
in our hearts as if we watched WrestleMania three live
in nineteen eighty seven. We were four, We were four,
well you were six whatever, I was six. Yeah, we
didn't watch that line, but I don't even though we'restling
(35:09):
was at the time. But it was possible, Yes, it.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
Was possible to capture that in tranquility, to recapture it
through video cassette, and it's you know, it's possible. Now
you see people that are bigger that are fans of
territories that closed before they were even born because of
so much being on YouTube which is a wonderful thing
if you ask me. Right, Oh, I'll complains about technology
on that front, but I will say that our whole
(35:34):
co mania for fans of our era the nineties was
made possible by the video store and was not We
didn't get to experience it as people who were like,
tonight Hogan's fighting, tonight Hogan's fighting. Right, No, today, maybe
I'll find a new Hogan fight I haven't seen before.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yep, Yep, That's exactly it. And I mean because I again,
there's only there are only a handful of times where
I've where I've had that excitement of hulkg and like
on w w TV, like where you know that Saturday
nights main event, you know, Uh, I watched. I watched
every week with the hope that he would wrestle a
(36:15):
fucking jobber, you know, not knowing that that's not ever
going to happen. I I watched, you know, and then
in ninety three when he when it was announced he
was coming back to my net raw, Are you kidding me?
I watched that fucking raw. I had it ready to go.
I was so excited, but it just it but it
never it never turned into I know, Hulk is going
(36:38):
to be there, right, you know, it became well is
he going to be there? And that's and that's where
that's where it really it all. It all kind of
just it. I really felt like I was never going
to have it. I really thought I was never going
to have it. Got it, actually, I got I got comfortable.
(37:00):
I got kind of comfortable with the fact that Hulkvid
was never going to wrestle again. Did you watch Back
to the Beach in ninety four live? I did not.
I didn't. I was. It was still very hard for
me to get pay per views at the time, especially
because I had just got in WrestleMania, you know, a
little before, and it's like, I I couldn't you know.
The only w W pay for view I've talked about,
the only one I've ever I've ever got was Halloween
(37:21):
Havoc ninety four. Oh yeah, yeah, that one I talked
him into. Yeah, you know that, that's that's that's the one.
I mean because to me, in a weird way, that
was a much more exciting match because it's in a
cage and it's like, oh fuck, this is awesome.
Speaker 8 (37:33):
I was.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
I was unsettled. I was unsettled. By Hoko and a
w c W. I knew about it, and I wasn't
really I wasn't really keen on buying the show. It
was kind of like, yeah, it was. It was a
It was a place I wasn't willing to go yet,
and I was almost resentful. I almost didn't want to
watch him in w CW because I almost felt hidding,
because I remember having this feeling of like, oh man,
(37:56):
that is so lame, that hole has fallen so far,
having no conception of like, this guy's getting paid better
than he did probably most years in WWF for like
half the work. You know, he's actually transforming the the
view of Turner Broadcasting towards what WCW could be and
opening up a series of bitchoffice talked about this and
(38:16):
we'll re'llcap at all. It's part of our coverage. You know,
the licensing doors he opened up, the ad sales doors,
he opened up the conversations he could start around celebrity involvement.
I mean, God is Bashed at the Beach nineteen ninety four,
Chaca block from Sequille O'Neil. The George Foreman vignettes. You had,
mister t you had so many others actually involved, but
(38:37):
by the time it was all said and done, Chris Lemon, yep,
I mean, come on, I mean Chris Lemon was there.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I can't believe I've got their biggest star of them all.
And it was just.
Speaker 6 (38:49):
It was just a it was just a trip that
all that was happening for WCW. But I didn't see
it as elevating WCW. I saw it as diminishing hul
Covin that's interesting. I saw it as the rest business
is so whack right now that the WWF and Hulk
Hogan can't find a way to get together and do
business like that was in my mind, like there's something
not there's something broken about wrestling. If Hulk Hogan isn't
(39:11):
in WWF for whatever reason, he's in WCW, that's why
WWF is gonna suck. So I'm not even interested in
watching WWF.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
And Wow, it was. It was a very strange. I
had the opposite reaction of you.
Speaker 6 (39:24):
It did not draw me in. It pushed me first.
It pushed me further to the sidelines. Now, maybe that
was because I had different interests at that particular age.
I remember that was when I really got into like
X Men and basketball and shit. Yeah, but and I
was watching wrestling regularly, but I wasn't It wasn't appointment
viewing like it had been in the past few years
and like it would be subsequent years after that and
for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
So I'm not that fan.
Speaker 6 (39:47):
That's why I'm so interested to talk to you about
this era of Huligan WSW because.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
You were that fan. And yeah, it totally was. In fact,
in many ways, I had two Hulk Hogans because I
had like Luger in WW and.
Speaker 6 (39:58):
Look the fact that you're all waiting for the next Hogan,
which I can identify with that that was that was
something when you first said that, when we started talking
about Nash and Luger getting pushed and even to some
degree Brett like and and.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Sean Michaels, Let's not forget that. He was my whole Cogan.
He was my face winged eagle title. What's yep, yep,
we're going right, We're back, We're back right. That's that's it,
that's it. He was my whole coach. Listen, whoever was like,
whoever was on top, who really wasn't. Brett Hard was
my whole coach like Brett. For some reason, Brett was Brett.
(40:38):
I could get behind Brett being Brett, and you know,
I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I wonder why
that is. I mean, I I think of it. I
guess maybe from watching that that All American Wrestling episode
where Gene they you know, introduces a miss champion like
I I remember because I remember being excited about him
(41:01):
being champion. So he really he couldn't qualify as my Hogan.
I just never I never did that because he was
too Like it was such a shock. Yeah, the match
to have Brett as champion, you didn't see the match
a live match, right, and well, just the idea that
(41:21):
it was him, who I never considered a world champion, right,
That excited me as a fan in ninety two. That
I just never put him on, that he was on
his own pedestal. Yeah, Brett especially pissed me off later on.
He was on his own pedestal whereas other guys were.
You know, like if I basically what I'm saying is
when I would watch a show and I had and
(41:43):
I had my my has bros around, Hulk Hogan was
never used as Brett Heart Wow. Never it was Brett
was always Brett Hogan was you. You know, I used
Hogan for a lot of other guys over the years,
but never as bretttheart, which is Yeah, I never realized.
I'm realizing for the first time, no joke right now,
that I really that, I I that there is some
(42:07):
sanctity for Brett Hart to me. Yeah, and I never
really realized that.
Speaker 10 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
It was almost like you were stripping something away from
him to try to make him be your Hogan.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I had a little bit.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
It is something different than that, and you didn't want
to compromise that by making him fit the Hogan mold.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
It just didn't work. It just did not work for me. Yep.
Speaker 6 (42:26):
And do you think if you were watching in nineteen
ninety that Ultimate Warrior would have been your next Hogan.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
I don't think so. I don't think so because they
never because I don't know, you tell, I mean, they
never have said Hulk Hogan's retiring. You know. That's the
thing that got me. That's what got me, is the
idea that Hulk Hogan's retiring. You know, you have to
move on. It isn't just like you're writing for him
(42:54):
to come back. But I need Hulk Hogan in my
Hasbro universe, and who am I gonna fuck?
Speaker 11 (42:58):
You know?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
I gotta I gotta want. I'm watching a show and
I'm reenacting to compliment my universe. I needed to be
I need somebody film that hole's massive. Yeah, yep, and
so totally to the point.
Speaker 6 (43:10):
Let's settle into what it was like, because I probably
breezed right by the supermarket newstand with Hull, Cogan and
Rick Flair in the covery.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
You were stopped dead in your tracks. Yep.
Speaker 6 (43:19):
And so let's go to page twenty four, The Making
of a super Stable. Hulk Hogan and manager Jimmy Hart
had a private meeting when they visited Rick Flair's gym
for a public appearance. Although nobody knows what they discussed,
the trio gave Pro Wrestling Illustrated food for thought, Boss,
take it away food, Just just give him food and
(43:40):
food and thought, food and thought. Look at page one.
Look at Hulk's cameltoe. Look at look at the pussy
he has between his leg.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Jesus, what is that about, Terry dude, brother? What what
do you? I'm also look a look at look at
the way his shirt is his ribs too. There's something
really uncomfortable there, like he's got a like he's got
a gash in there, like some kind of a gaping
hole in his midsection. Hogan and Flair's secret meeting and
PWY was there by Dave Rosenbaum. Rick Flair learned his
(44:12):
lesson a long time ago. Burning bridges isn't a good
idea from a business standpoint, right. This might sound like
an unusual realization for a man who has made more
enemies than nearly anyone else in wrestling, but it's actually
a high sign of Flair's people skills. I make sure
all my opponents know nothing that goes on between us
(44:34):
is personal. He said, It's all in the game. How
else would Flair have been able to put together the
Superpower Summit to end all superpower summits if we thought
it was news when Hulk, Hogan and Sting met for
over a half hour in Japan last year, I don't
remember that. That's crazy, Yeah, just that was on that
(44:56):
don't taku, don't what is it right? Don't talk about it.
Just imagine the surprise when we found Hogan, manager Jimmy Hart,
and Flair in front of our cameras together, and they
were speaking in a civilized manner. Yes, they were. When
(45:17):
the picture taking to promote Flair's Gym and Charlotte, North
Carolina was done, the trio retired to a back room
for nearly forty five minutes. That's all legit.
Speaker 6 (45:28):
Hogan did go to Flare's gym. Yes, to sign autographs.
It was kind of as part of the Thunder and
Paradise promotional tour.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
I see.
Speaker 6 (45:37):
So they were there, and I'm sure that they had
the idea to get some publicity for a future potential
arrangement that I don't think any ink was dry in
any contracts yet. Sure, but the trojan horse here was
kind of that. Hulk was actively shooting and promoting Thunder
and Paradise at the time he began his flirtation with
ww so a lot of the things that he could
do telling us fans that he was coming to WCW
(45:58):
was done couched as Thunder and Paradise publicity. I see
even his interviews on WCW Saturday Night in March of
nineteen ninety four, which came out of nowhere all of
a sudden, Hulk Cogan is being interviewed with the purple
WCW logo and the mic flag by gene Okerland, those
were supposed to be those those to my understanding, were
sort of couched as Hulk's you know, exploiting all platforms
(46:21):
to promote the show, including naturally.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Remember I do remember, I do remember that that interview,
and because you know I I watched it, I don't know.
I mean, I'm just remembering that I did watch it.
I don't remember. I couldn't remember any details. We talked
quite a bit about her when we did Super Brawl
(46:42):
ninety four. Yeah, but what I do remember is that
he right, he was talking about Thunder and Paradis and
he wasn't really talking about wrestling.
Speaker 6 (46:53):
It was almost like gene Oakerland was there on behalf
of WCW to interview Hulk to see if he wanted
to come to WSW. But really the eason Hogan was
there was he wasn't coming to WCW to be interviewed.
He was getting run up on on the Thunder and
Paradise set and a lot of the other things he did,
like this gym appearance. From what I kind of can
re gather and piece together, it seems like the reason
(47:15):
people didn't see it as him necessarily going to WCW
and promoting a WCW jump, because he still had flirtations
with WWF. There was still a period where Vince could
have matched what WCW was offering Hulk. It was in
the Observer, like a month before Bash at the Beach
that Titan had finally had informed Hulk via letter that
they would not match the terms of WCW's offer. Un
Thus he was free to go. But the reason he
(47:37):
could kind of trojan horses way in a ww television
was because, you know, generally he was contractually obligated to
promote Thunder and Paradise. And where you gonna promote it,
you're gonna promote it. Vince isn't gonna let him on
his TV, right, you got to promote it to wrestling fans.
Those are the people who care the most and have
the highest likelihood of checking out Hulk Hogan's TV show.
So put him on WCW. And so it wasn't like, oh,
(47:57):
Hogan's on WWTV, Hogan's coming to wc W. It was, well,
it's kind of like he's on TV for almost like
a commercial for Thunder and Paradise. Because he wasn't in
the arrange. He wasn't at center stage at the WB
Center anight lot, he wasn't at Disney MGM, you know,
doing worldwide taping. He wasn't in the CNN Center in
Atlanta doing a WCW promotional shoot. And this magazine coverage
(48:20):
here is also kind of You could also argue it's
more about the Thunder and Paradise promotional tour, and naturally
help's going to push that to the wrestling audience via
the wrestling magazines.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
But they didn't.
Speaker 6 (48:31):
They still they knew what they were, they knew where
they were headed. They knew that the germ of something
was there to get Hogan and Flair in the ring.
I don't think they quite knew when and how or where,
but they were not hesitating to plant that.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Seed because because I remember too, like it didn't obviously
this this issue came out in March, right it I
you know, and it didn't happen. Wait a minute, didn't
come out in March. Should have if it's Mark April. Yeah,
but but but pter Mas were weird. They came out
(49:03):
like it was weirder. I feel like it came out
in February maybe.
Speaker 6 (49:07):
There was mention made of this magazine during one of
those WCWTV interviews that Hogan did with gene Oakerland.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I really feel like npter Max came out two months
prior to their Yeah month it could have sense at all,
because I always remember like it was like it always
seemed like when I look at the data, it's like, well,
wait a minute, when the fuck does this magazine come out?
Like it's all over the place?
Speaker 6 (49:28):
Is that the hardest thing to just put on a
magazine just the month that came out instead of some
distant months.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
That doesn't make anything. Why do you have to put
it like in the future. Why is it always in
the future. I never understood that. Why is the March
issue of w magazine coming out in February? Look, I
mean super Brawl was full of Hogan references and that
was in February, right, And I just I feel like
I feel like I saw this and then nothing happened
for a while, and then all of a sudden, he
(49:55):
was getting these interviews on TV like it was finally
paying off for me. I wonder anyway, they emerged smiling
and silent, unwilling to divulge the contents of their extraordinary meeting.
Hogan and Heart were there to help their old WWE
campadre one it not on it the other Thanks, Jimmy
(50:17):
Hart explained cryptically to a friend. But there was far
more to this day than met the eye. Speculation is
raging throughout wrestling's inner circles that Hogan, Heart and Flare
talked about forming a high powered organization of the sport's
greatest stars. Well that would actually happen two years later
with THEWO.
Speaker 6 (50:36):
Well that this actually brings it up, and we'll get
to it. There was credible reporting that Hogan was actually
in talks with HBO about starting a new wrestling.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Group Get out of Town. Yes, oh shit.
Speaker 6 (50:54):
Jimmy Hart would go on to say in his book
in another forum that HBO was offering Hogan two million
dollars to be basically do supercards, not not a weekly
wrestling promotion, but wow, sort of like one off mega
events that they could build up for subscribers.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
So interesting.
Speaker 6 (51:11):
Keep that in mind that it's not just WCW that
they might be teasing and pointing to here by putting
Hulk back in the wrestling press and in the wrestling eye.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Yep, that's fascinating. Yeah, there may in fact be a
connection between the Hogan Flair Heart get together and Hogan's
meeting with Sting in Japan last spring. If these four
are on the verge of competing under one banner, they
would surely put all other stables to shame, including Flare
(51:41):
Zone for horsemen. They would also have tremendous bargaining power.
Would they wrestle in wwwwe in a Japanese federation or
in all three? Hogan Sting the host Stings fucking brought
into this whole stay. It is curious.
Speaker 6 (51:55):
Flair, you know, famously got a contract extension at gunpoint
to do the job to Hogan and Halloween havoc ninety
four in the retirement stipulation. I don't know how soon
his contract was to expire, but it was coming due
early enough that he started to feel a little insecure
about his future and wanted to take the leverage that
you know, losing that final match to Hogan provided before
he disappeared for a while to lock down a contract
(52:18):
that kept him around.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
And kept him paid.
Speaker 6 (52:20):
So what might also be the subtext of an article
like this is Flair maybe even signaling to WCW that
he could go with Hogan and do their own things.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
There you go, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (52:30):
Donutlike, but they did in Australia in two thousand and
nine before Hogan came over to the TNA.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Right, Hogan's stinging Flair Hart would have so much power
that they could force the WWE and WCW into a
share agreement. That's a fucking bold statement.
Speaker 6 (52:48):
Oh yeah, well that's the magic of the aftermag They
could just fucking say shit like that and the fan
would be like, you know, none the wiser about how
impossible it was.
Speaker 3 (52:56):
I'm I am. I will tell you I probably ate
that shit out. Yeah, I probably ate that shit up
of the idea about because you know, at this point too,
I was disappointed, you know, as much as I wanted
Flair to to lose that career ending match against Perfect,
but then it's like, well now he's gone. Yeah, you know,
like a careering match for a fan is great in theory,
(53:19):
but then when you realize that the rest was actually gone, Yeah,
it's like, oh shit, kind of needed Flair around. Kind
of sucks feel good, Yeah, Flair Flair made things feel great. Well,
think about two I mean, you know, about how that
would have gotten you as a fan. What about how
many Hogan versus Flair who would win the dream Match covers?
Did they run for ten years? Oh? I know, seriously, seriously,
(53:40):
and I mean also keep in mind too, when I
started watching WWE, Flair was there. Yes, he wasn't. He
wasn't ever in w CW for me at the time,
I didn't learn that for a long time.
Speaker 6 (53:53):
Last backwards are you? Hogan's w CW run is your
whole Camania run and Flair's definitive thing. Flair to you
is a WW wrestler more than a WW wrestler.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
It's right, It's like it's so as backwards, I you know,
and really only fans who started watching in that particular
time period can really have that, possibly have that, you know,
starting in that weird time of ninety one. Honestly, it's
you know, with the steroid thing happening, you know, all
(54:24):
all these weird things happening, He's starting to watch wrestling
in that in the second half of ninety one. Really
puts you in a unique decision.
Speaker 6 (54:31):
Yeah, because you're coming in, You're coming in as wide
eyed as can be as a kid watching this, like
incredibly kid friendly presentation and under the surface, it's all
being corrupted and you're none the wiser.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yep. And I had no idea who the fuck Worck
Flair was. I had no idea who he was. I'd
never heard him before. I'm like, Okay, who's this fucking idiot?
Speaker 6 (54:52):
But he he's never been that that he's saying, you know,
he just didn't wa fans didn't know who he was.
They took Flair and Hogan to Oakland like week two,
Like they didn't do any ticket sales. Yeah, theydn't do
anywhere near a many ticket sales. Is disupposed a dream
match you'd expect.
Speaker 3 (55:06):
But to me it was like, I mean it became
a dream match. You know, it did become a dream
match for me. Yeah, in ninety two. Uh, but like
it was I was like, what is it? Like what
I mean he doesn't have a Hassbro figure?
Speaker 9 (55:21):
What is he?
Speaker 6 (55:23):
And he would come to have one, and once he
did one, after he was gone, Well that's some you know.
Evan Husney it darks out of the ring told us
like that's one of their guiding principles. It's like if
a guy has a hasbro figure it's right in that
demographic sweet spot. If we do an our episode on
that guy, people will have a certain extra relatability to
that character, like Ludwig Boring for instance.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yeah, are you gonna do a Steve Kern one off?
Speaker 6 (55:46):
A Skinner episode fits that hits that level. But it's
all it's all true. And you know, Flair, you know,
WCW is so fucking lucky when we look at Bash
at the Beach in nineteen ninety four that they didn't
do Hogan Flair Wrestle in the eight because if they
had done that match and promoted it as the dream
match and all of that shit, it would not feel
(56:08):
special when they did it in WCW, not just because
it had already happened, but because it had already Because
what made it even more of a dream match was
not just that Hogan was the WWF champion from eighty
four through ninety one and Flair was an NBA champion
from that time period two and all those comparisons. It
wasn't just that there was a second life to it
that I would argue, it was even more important what
(56:30):
made it even more of a dream matches that we
couldn't get it in.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
The WWF right, yeah, of course, oh my god. Yeah,
when their paths did cross, we still didn't get it.
It it it, you know, And as much as as
wonderful as you know, it did, it did feel a
little to me. It did feel a little bit of
a letdown that when they did finally get on pay
per view at Basche of the Beach, it happened in
(56:54):
the summer show. Yeah, it was like that should happen
on whatever your biggest show is. And I know, Bash
of the Beach knew summer shows are never the bigs show.
Speaker 6 (57:02):
This is the first Bash of the Beach. They did
Beach Blast the year of five. I know, I know,
I know, but it was it was what, as we'll
find out, it was about Orlando. It was about all
the poll that Orlando had with them. They were shooting
television at MGM Disney MGM, Hulk was shooting Thunder and
Paradise in the same lot. A lot of the connective
tissue there, and Hulk was plugged into Orlando big time
(57:22):
in terms of like you know, tourism, marketing and like
you know, local officialdom and people. You know, Orlando liked
partnering with Hulk. Hogan on things that would bring spectator
right of course, and so he was able to get
a very favorable setup there in Orlando, Florida, for this
particular date for this show and really fill out the building.
(57:42):
It was kind of like that first TNA show when
he came in. It's like you've watched this show for years,
and all of a sudden, the crowd overnight looks totally different.
It's like it's just the constitution of the audience is
just totally different. And it's it's Hulk bringing his circus
and bringing all of his his network of supporters and
fans who might not want to buy a WCW ticket.
Now he's wrestling, and all of a sudden, hit the guy,
(58:03):
the Hogan imitator of his front row, and he'd never
go away.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
Oh yeah, nope. He's always fucking there, that guy. And
so I think it was like always there. Even though
the summer is an ideal in a way, it was
also kind of like, this is when we can get Orlando.
This is how the pieces line up. Because it didn't
feel like it just don't feel like a supercard, you know,
like the show. The rest of it just felt like
kind of a because I remember even feeling it then
like it just didn't feel like the supercard that it
(58:30):
should feel like. I agree, it should have, like it
should have had like a dozen matches underneath with some fucking,
you know, crazy ass things, and it just didn't feel
it felt weak.
Speaker 6 (58:42):
Yeah, Bushy, it was weak on the undercard, it really was.
I think for them it was it was a deal
where like you know, star Kid was their big show
and theory, but what was most important to them was
just getting it into the ring. And yeah, yeah, you know,
once finally all the things were over. Because it can't
emphasize enough Hulk. You know, people knew I think probably
(59:05):
that Hulk had immunity first testimony against Vince. But you
have to remember, Vince. If Hulk said something up there
that pissed off Vince, Vince's side could have called a
witness up there that would just make Hulk look like
the biggest fucking drug smuggling scumbag.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
You've ever seen in your life. Can you imagine, absolutely, God.
Speaker 6 (59:24):
And so until it was kind of clear that that
that was the way it was gonna go.
Speaker 3 (59:27):
They would have they would have found that driver.
Speaker 6 (59:29):
They would have found the driver. Well, they knew they
had the driver. They just they were able to scare
the shit out of him and get him to contradict
himself under oath.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
So man, they would have they would have under they
would have they would have they would have had him
to fucking target him against Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 6 (59:44):
One thing that Hogan does say in his second book,
which we didn't really address when we did a trial
of his life because we didn't really refer to a
second book that much, is that in the audience seated
next to Vince's team was Hogan's former drug mule, the
guy Dan Broward, whatever his name was, in Tampa, that
he would have steroids sent to to k Fabe, the
fact that they were going to end up in Huld,
which arguably is distribution, which arguably is you know, basically,
(01:00:06):
it's more than just buying and possessing steroids, it's trafficking
in them in a way. And you know, if that
if Hults gets out of line, you know, that guy
goes up there and basically makes Hulk look like a
drug pusher or or some kind of like a smuggler.
A ton of things could have happened to Hulk's reputation
before that so you've got this undercurrent where it's like,
(01:00:27):
when are we going to strike with this Hulgan natch?
When are we going to when? When does the time
make sense? Bishov has always talked about how they were very,
very aware and kind of keyed in on the public
relations risk, and that ultimately Ted Turner and Bill Shaw,
who was the liaison between Eric and Ted and a
huge big wig at Turner Broadcasting and who's in attendance
for the first time at a WCW show at Bash
(01:00:47):
at the Beach, ended up making the final call that
it was worth the pr risk to bring Hulk Hogan
in at this time, even though it was a jump
ball how he would end up being perceived, And you
got to think that up until the way of his testimony,
it was like, oh, is Hogan's trial is Vince's tround
going to be in May? Originally was supposed to be
in May, and it got pushed at July. Wow, Like
that's really what it was. No one's ever said that directly,
(01:01:10):
but I feel like, we don't know what the hell's
going to come out about Hulk Hogan in this trial,
And until it finally got under way and they felt
probably a little more confident because Hulk had been briefed
by the government as to what they wanted to say,
and he probably had his ducks in a row to
what he was going to say, and he was still,
you know, sort of done negotiating with Titan. It's like
they probably just did the match as soon as they
(01:01:31):
practically felt they could get away with it without exposing
themselves to huge headline risk around something crazy happening at
this trial.
Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Wow, you know, and to wait.
Speaker 6 (01:01:42):
They want to do it as soon as possible. And
with that in mind, Stark, it doesn't make a lot
of sense. How long and havoc doesn't make a lot
of sense. They probably wanted to do it in fucking June,
you know, or April, because I mean, if you watch
Spring Stampede, it's a joke. I mean Flair and seamboat
Like they talk about Flair and Hogan way more than
they do Flar and Steamboat, even though that's the match
they're presenting on the pay per view. Well, we'll get
(01:02:04):
to it, and we didn't. When we did Spring Stampede
nighty four, we talked we did it right, Oh, yeah,
we did it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
We did We did do it. We did do it.
Speaker 6 (01:02:10):
And the promos you know on Saturday Night between Flare
and Steamboat leading in you get you ocal and asking
Steamboat like if he feels overshadowed by all Cogan because
Hogan's name dropping Rick Flair on those promos from the
Thunder and Paradise set that they would play on Saturday night.
So to me, that means, you know, they were already
geared if they could, if everything lined up such that
(01:02:31):
they could strike, they would have done it in the spring.
They just did it soon as as soon as they
thought the coast was relatively clear.
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
The fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the
(01:03:15):
boys need their candy.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
It's the Lapsed Fan.
Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
He's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnacio
m JP sorrow.
Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Ah Okay, Federation Federal Federation heads would no longer be
in the position to set agendas. I will see about that, right,
It's an incredible concept, agreed Bill Watts. He's former vice
president of wrestling operations. Shit. I bet Bill is all passed, right.
Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
He got ousted for Eric yep, and he's probably he's
probably involved somehow on the back end here.
Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
You know, no promoters have always worried about the day
when the wrestlers call all the shots. These four men
get together, they could basically do whatever they wanted. They
make the rules, but they wouldn't make mistake. So there.
It's as if an Olympic style dream team decided to
form its own NBA franchise, or if a baseball team
(01:04:46):
rounded up Barry Bonds, Greg Maddox, Juan Gonzalez, and Joe Carter.
The possibilities are mind boggling. Hogan and Flair nearing the
ends of great career, nearing the ends of great careers,
well you know, you know nothing. Hogan has in fact
retired and unretired at least twice. Only under very special
(01:05:07):
conditions would he unretire again. Flair, having accomplished all he
set out to do, needs something different to keep himself interested,
staying as a different motivation motivation. He's a peak performer
doing very well on his own. Nonetheless, he couldn't resist
the opportunity to opportunity to team with Hogan and Flair.
Hart hasn't had much to do as a manager over
the past year or so, and he knows Hogan won't
(01:05:29):
wrestle too much. Longer. Where do they get this? Where
do they get this information from?
Speaker 6 (01:05:36):
Whatever you're reading, it's going through the approval process of
of Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
So like it? I mean, I may be a good point. However,
he could use the prestige of the Hulkster, Flair's innumerable
innumerable contacts, and Sting's reputation of the wrestling community to
recruit younger stars into the fold who wouldn't want to
be associated with them. Several insiders have speculated that Stay
is no longer part of the pack right, and it
(01:06:04):
may be why he wasn't invited. Flair, Hogan, and Hart
might form their own team, or they could recruit two
more horsemen. Possibilities include Lex Luger, Davy Boys Smith, and
even the Ultimate Warrior, who's in early retirement and is,
like Hogan, seeking success on the film and TV circle.
Speaker 6 (01:06:22):
That didn't happen at all. No me ask your question
HBO Pro Wrestling, nineteen ninety four, Hogan, Flair, Sting, Davy Boy, Luger, Warrior.
Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
I mean I would want it. I wouldn't get it, though, wow,
because my parents would never they you know, it took
until my dad wanted to watch the Prano before we
got HBO's that's a separate but I would want it, Yeah,
I would. I'd listen. It didn't fucking matter if Hulk
Hogan's going to wrestle on television, I fucking need it.
(01:06:57):
Beat a path to the door. Yep, that's what it was.
It did not matter to me that it was you
know where it was or who it was with. I
just needed Hulk Hogan. Flair laughed at the speculation. You
boys are getting ahead of yourselves. You're talking, you're taking
(01:07:19):
wishes and hoping they come true. Hulk and Jimmy did
me a favor, that's all. We went back to my
office to speak. Because the three of us don't get
together too often. We're getting together, we're not getting together.
I don't even know if it would work. Flare has
a point. The California Angels used free agency to put
together a team of high priced superstars. They won three
(01:07:43):
American League West titles over an eight year span, but
a World Series game has yet to be played in Anaheim.
The New York Rangers, despite their spending, haven't won a
Stanley Cup since Shout at Islanders and Wait, since Shouted
Islanders and Devil Oh shouted Islanders and devil fans nineteen forty.
(01:08:05):
The Minnesota Vikings traded away their future for herschel Walker
and never saw the slightest return. The Four Horsemen are
the greatest team that ever lived. Flair said, learn from history,
appreciate what you saw, quit dreaming. That's good advice. Boys.
Maybe maybe Heart and Hogan wouldn't comment or anything related
(01:08:29):
to their meeting with Flair. Sting has also been silent
on the issue. Several WCW ANDWWE wrestlers said they had
no insight on the meeting and heard no rumors of
a Flair Hogan Heart get together. Doesn't mean it won't happen. Hogan,
stung by media criticism and reports of steroid abuse, carefully
guards his privacy. Heart has stood by him. But as
(01:08:51):
a little else lately related to wrestling, Flair likes to
tease as a practice. Sting doesn't disclose private discus ussians
to the medium. We have been left in a listen
and wait situation. For now. All we have are pictures,
food for thought, grizzle for the rumor mill, delicious anticipation.
(01:09:14):
Just eat it up and we play a lot, and
we plan to Mash at the Beach nineteen ninety four.
I like the fucking rob band dam versus Saboo match
right after that.
Speaker 6 (01:09:29):
I know how serendipitous is that all this is all happening.
Those two are starting to get the publicity. Is like
the indie match sensation yep, that you just have to see. Well,
it was July nineteen ninety four, and for us, it's
going to be August third. For us, it's going to
be Comedy Village times Square by now, you know, damn
(01:09:50):
fucking right, co Chairman, take the stage, the Lapsed Fan
Live and we want to see you there as we
just issue an edict on the state of being a
pro wrestling fan in the Year of Our Lord twenty
twenty five. What does it mean all these years after
you know, hoping that Hulkamania would come back, that huole
Comania and Hulkogan himself may never come back to the
(01:10:10):
public eye ever again. What does it mean that so
many other things that we held one sacred will collapse?
Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
What will it mean.
Speaker 6 (01:10:18):
Halfway between the biggest two night Summer Slam in history.
Mm hmm, We're gonna lay it down as only TLF can,
the only therapeutic experience a wrestling fan can have these days. Yes,
TLF goes live. Chopping it up too hot for the
pod is my prediction for what you're going to be
hearing from the stage.
Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
Listen. It is, without a doubt, all right, the biggest
pain of the summer.
Speaker 12 (01:10:43):
Sunday, August third, at noon, The Lapsed Fan takes on
times Square tickets at Comedy Village dot com. There goes
the neighborhood, you fucking bitch.
Speaker 6 (01:10:52):
Thirty five dollars a ticket to drink, minimum food and drink.
You heard from the homie Rag Boots on the main
feed who's been helping us put the shows together. Now
about all of the upside of joining the co chairman,
easy access heart of the city where where Vince.
Speaker 9 (01:11:08):
We were right in the middle of it all. That's
really where we belong, and I think.
Speaker 6 (01:11:10):
That's there goes the neighborhood. The laps Fan live Comedy
Village dot com. Don't just buy your tickets ahead of time,
because they're moving. They're moving. We're hearing from folks they're moving.
Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 6 (01:11:21):
But also email us at the laps Fan at gmail
dot com. It's some proof of purchase and We'll try
to get your shout out here, because we do appreciate
folks acting early and often, and we do want to
see you. Sunday, August third, Comedy Village, New York City,
the co chairman back on stage and back talking that shit,
back talking our shit.
Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Right, absolutely, can you fucking ready believe.
Speaker 8 (01:11:45):
That?
Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Bash at the Beach nineteen ninety four, The Hogan we
see here, the flare, we see here the stage. Know
what you're going to say? Make ten years after he
beats iron cheek? Oh, that's what we're gonna say. Yeah, okay,
what did you think I was gonna say? That he's
uh like forty one years old? Oh, that's that's even
more alarming. And that you know, he's forty one years
(01:12:08):
old in this in the or almost or something like
that in this uh for that show. But that's just
not I mean, the fact that I'm older than him
right now than he is in that show is just mortifying. Yeah,
he has to be thirty years older than me all
the time, right, well, he is, but that even back then,
(01:12:30):
he can't be. I can never be older than I
can never.
Speaker 6 (01:12:33):
Watch a show where Hal Coogan is younger in the
show than I am at that.
Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
Moment right exactly. So he has to be seventy in
that show, just the way it is.
Speaker 6 (01:12:43):
See the difference with what happens to your hair if
you do steroids, if you don't, like he's no Air, no.
Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
Wonder he looked like he was sixty five, did no Air?
It's true. But even Flair, I mean, Flair is only
like a couple of years older than him, Like I think,
I think, I think I'm still older than Flair, Like
I'm older now than Flair. Wasn't that in that show?
That's still not okay? I mean because Flair looks like
Flair flare all always looks like he was fucking fifty
years old.
Speaker 6 (01:13:06):
I think in some ways it is part and parcel
what I'm saying, Like, how can this Hulkogan be only
ten years older?
Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (01:13:14):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, picture of the garden, chic eighty four,
dimly lit crowd, all those weird changes happening, the naivete
of the fan base, Hogan being like, you know, almost
like a youthful poster boy, you know, losing his hair,
but other than that, I still have like a little
you know, it was like he still had a little
(01:13:34):
bit but this is just full scullet. Yeah, all right,
that's where we're at. I all scullet.
Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
The business changes used to change so much faster than
it does now. Like I could watch a ww show
from ten years ago and it would not feel drastically different.
It would not despite their efforts to, you know, add
production elements and make it look a lot different, feel
a lot different. There is no comparison between twenty twenty
five and twenty fifteen versus eighty four in ninety four.
(01:14:01):
M I cannot believe that in just a space of
ten years, Hulk went from running the wrestling world on
the ascent to being someone who's getting one more shot
at it ten years. That's it.
Speaker 6 (01:14:13):
After ten years, you've already retired and unretired like twice,
and been through the fucking ringer of publicity and have
to have this second lease on life. It's it's really,
it's really amazing. You think of all the people that
followed him. You know, Heenan has come over by this point.
Jesse was there at WWF at the beginning with him,
and now he's here at WCW. Not for long, of course.
(01:14:34):
Even smaller players like Brian Blair ed Leslie Craig Leathers.
Craig Leathers was in the fucking the credits for the
original Colisseum home videos, yep. Yeah, And now he's in
the truck for a World Championship Wrestling. Greg Gagney, Well,
I didn't want to mention him, but.
Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (01:14:51):
I mean, Jimmy Hart is a ringside screaming in the
megaphone for the Hard Foundation, and now there he is
with Hulk and WCW. It's just it's the same cast
of care but the whole surrounding has changed. And and
and motherfucker Austin's there. Y Foley's there. Foley's there, well
(01:15:11):
not on the show. Triple H is there, yep, gold
Dust is there. Mark Merrow is there. Mark Merrow is
absolutely there. Regal, I mean not saying all these people,
you know, you can tell which of those made huge impacts,
and the WWF Vader, but they're all going there.
Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (01:15:29):
The the the the incumbent crew in w CW, upon
Hogan's arrival is all going to go to WWF and
reinvent that place.
Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
Never look, change the whole game, Never look the whole
fucking game.
Speaker 6 (01:15:44):
Think about it. Crazy for a second, because he's on
the ship. He wrestles Ricky Steamboat two matches before Holt
comes out.
Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Yes he does.
Speaker 6 (01:15:52):
If one or two things were different and Steve Austin
sticks around through ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight, he's
on nitro with the nWo. I'm not saying that they
would have discovered in him the electricity and that stone
Cold would have been stone Cold in WSW I'm just saying,
what the fuck would w w F had done if
Steve Austin didn't find his way over there and strike
(01:16:14):
the gold that he did.
Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Yeah, yeah, I really don't know. I mean, if everything
went the same way too with Brett and all that
stuff like ch I mean, they they they wouldn't have
been I mean they really, they would have been up
Shit's creek. I think so, I really, I just don't.
I don't know if they would have been able to
because because you know, Rock was still just too far away.
(01:16:37):
Rock wouldn't have been able to come Rock without Steve
right that too, But he was also when you think
about when he actually turned into something major, it wasn't
for another you know, it wasn't until ninety eight at
the earliest, when he was something.
Speaker 13 (01:16:53):
No, you you.
Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
I mean if if if Eric Bischoff had hadn't been
so disappointed with black Trunks, we would not be where
we are today. I mean Austin famously went to Eric
when Hull came. Hey know what, I'll tell you what,
I'll tell you what if? I mean, well, think about this,
think about this. What if if Austin hadn't gone over
(01:17:17):
maybe we would be having a live show at w
W bash and the Beach two Nier.
Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
Huh huh.
Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Maybe that would be the case. It's allowed to deal with.
It's a lot to deal with Jr. Going over there, yep.
Speaker 6 (01:17:42):
But just it really it really hit me more than
ever before because intellectually, yeah, of course, why why didn't
they see something in Steve Austin such that they kept
him around?
Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
But it isn't that.
Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
It isn't why didn't they keep Steven pushing him to
the moon and make as much money as WTIF could
have with it. It's why didn't they deprive i've WWF
of Steve Austin, right?
Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
I mean they they saw I mean really, it's they
saw so little in Steve Austin right that they didn't
care that he went away and I don't think.
Speaker 6 (01:18:12):
It would take much, you know, because Steve was just
we've told the story a hundred times, deeply insulted by
the way he was kind of treated.
Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
At the end.
Speaker 6 (01:18:19):
He famously went to Eric when Hulk came in and
suggested ways that he could work with Hulk. It was
quickly kind of dispirited from the notion. It was kind
of like, well, that's not wrong, So really, how this
is going to work. No one's gonna pitch Hulk taps
you on the shoulder. You don't tap Hulk on the
shoulder here, people didn't. I don't think I even understand
what the creative control clause even necessarily implied at the
very beginning in that way and thought the old way
(01:18:40):
of lobbying to get in the ring with someone might
might might prove efficacious. Like no, actually, what you guys
don't realize this. Hulk Coagan pretty much is the boss now,
like for all intents and purposes, rightly, he's not the
boss of shows. He's not going to be here for
but if Hulk's coming, he runs the promotion.
Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
That's it.
Speaker 6 (01:18:53):
Because if he doesn't like something, it's not going to happen.
And if he doesn't like something, he's going to let
it be known, and he will win every single time
in a showdown over a battle of philosophies, or wherever
the case might be. So you guys can all, you know,
amuse yourselves with your programs when Hulk doesn't deem fit
to enter the building. But if he does, you have
now lost all control and the people you think you're
(01:19:13):
lobbying have no power, and they're not going to admit
it to your face. But it's over game, set match.
Either Hogan's thriving and succeeding and WSW is or Hogan
is not and ww is not, and that becomes the
story of the promotion. But you know, if I don't know,
if they just threw Steve a bone and said, yeah,
you know, Hulk wants them. He doesn't want to go
straight to wreck. He wants to run through a few
heels that can bump their ass off for him. Steve
(01:19:34):
would have put his hand up. He would have been happiest.
Speaker 14 (01:19:36):
Shit.
Speaker 6 (01:19:36):
Yeah, you know, even if Fulk drops the leg on him,
I'll stick around a couple more years. The money's good here,
Hulk's here. Things seem to be turning around, even if
I'm not going to be world champion. I can see
myself being happy here and making good money. That's all
it would take. And then WWF is fucking dead dead, yep,
because we all know if it's all like Kulcamania, we
live through it. We know that if Steve Austin doesn't
(01:19:58):
come around, WWF dies, it might. It didn't necessarily go
out of business entirely, but it has absolutely no shot
of catching fire like it did without that character at
the heart of it and leaning in and had being
so desperate that they allowed themselves to lean in to
the hyper violence of vulgarity and the intensity of the
Steve Boston character, and all that portended for the changing
of the very nature of the product, enabling and emboldening,
(01:20:20):
you know, the Vince Russeau vision of things and all
everything came downstream from embracing the Steve Austin dynamic.
Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
It's something to think, I mean it it is. I
mean also too, let's not taking let's not take anything
away from mc foley huge for that matter, and he
you know is I mean that's right before Hogan right here.
Pat you know, if if if Foley, if they had
kept Foley too and they decided they wanted to do
something with Foley and he hadn't left got me ECW
(01:20:51):
and then got W. I mean that also would be
a massive, a massive hit because he was so crucial
in many ways, uh, in his own way of kind
of ushering in some of that early that early extra violence.
That that that that would become the attitude era.
Speaker 6 (01:21:12):
Yeah, I mean, Ship, Austin Rock, Criple, h Edge, Orton.
They all owe their careers to make fully. Yeah, of course,
whether they will admit it or not, some of them will,
some of them won't. But if Folly doesn't go out
there and make them look like killing machines that we
can believe as world champions, they never get there.
Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
I mean, hell, you know what I mean. Even Undertaker
owes him his second life.
Speaker 6 (01:21:35):
Even Undertaker, I agree, Yeah, even Undertaker was made beforehand,
but still it was when he came in it was.
Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
But yeah, but he was also like he was also
fucking just awful. Yeah at that point, fucking wrestling with
a mask, oh, taking on fucking may desperately seeking something
that anybody could give a shit about. Yeah, you talk about.
Speaker 6 (01:21:57):
Our journeys and now we always settle on heroes, people
who are sort of just beneath the surface. They're not
the main characters in the story, but they are indelible
parts of the firmament of the whole thing. If if
we were to look at the Attitude era as a journey,
Mick Foley's the hero. It's very simple, yes, oh, no question,
very simple, no question.
Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Another's he's it's it's weird you know you don't you
know again because he because he never he didn't hit
the heights like Austin Rock or even Triple H. He's
the through line, that's right. He's the constant. He's the
guy holding it together, making you care the whole time, yep, making.
Speaker 6 (01:22:36):
You care, not even just about him, making you care
about others that go on to that go on to
feel like they belong in the spot that WWF wants
to put them in. And and just the fact that
ww had the opportunity again not to do that, not
to do that before WWF, but to deprive WWF of
the resources to do that. It's just just amazing to
(01:22:56):
think about. And I didn't realize how fine a point
Bash at the Beach nineteen ninety four specifically puts on that. Yeah,
then I did watching it again for preparation and realizing
who's on the under card and just how poetic it
is that Steve Austin and Mankind turn over the stage
to Hulk and therefore turn over the whole momentum in
the business in some ways, and how it would how
(01:23:18):
the course it would chart from there.
Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
But it was a.
Speaker 6 (01:23:23):
Long flirtation relatively speaking, between Hulk and WCW. And we
lived through this. We lived through nineteen ninety three. We
lived through picking up WWF magazine and seeing what I
just sent you in the chat window.
Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
It's not something uh you said, some fucking alert of
the goddamn chat window because it makes no sounds. That's
very concerned, very concerning. Oh come on, people, what you see?
Oh I love this thing. This was one of my
fav its.
Speaker 9 (01:23:53):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
First of all, it was such a great thing that
they would that they would do back then Matt Watch,
which was a dream match thing.
Speaker 9 (01:24:02):
It was.
Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
It was the w magazine did a dream match scenario
in the middle of their like I remember. One of
the most random ones was they did like demolition in
somebody else. It was like demolition of the Steiner Brothers.
Weird it's like demolition. Like listen, I'm thrilled to have
to to fantasize, but like they're long gone right by
(01:24:27):
that point, by ninety three, ninety whatever they were how
often they were doing this thing. But yeah, this is
Brett Hart and Hulk Hogan. They this is sum Islam.
They put it right in our face and asked us
to consider it. Yep, they did.
Speaker 6 (01:24:39):
They asked us they think about the relative strengths and weaknesses.
And we know from all the shows we've done, the
intrigue around what would happen in ninety three after Hogan
came out and beat Yokazun, after Yo Kazuna had beaten Brett,
and where that was heading that we know that WWF
would have liked to have done Brett taking the title
from Hulk Hogan at a SummerSlam, and we wonder, you know,
(01:24:59):
and but Hulk, you know, and this is the tension.
Vince saw Hulk as riding off into the Babe Ruth Roll,
somebody who would mostly do pr and do occasional legends
matches where he faced off against.
Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
A big star for a big payday.
Speaker 6 (01:25:11):
All the way through, I mean, Vince kept this idea
of who Hogan was till the very end. Remember during
TNH we're reading through the deposition and Hogan's talking about
Vince's floating John Cena versus Hulk Hogan in twenty thirteen
or whatever the fuck it was. Yep, yep for WrestleMania.
He still sees that use case for Hulk. But for
Hulk that means it's over. That means he's no longer
the full time top star, top earner. And make no mistake,
(01:25:34):
as much as we'd make fun of Hulk for clutching
the belt like pearls, all he's really clutching is the
money that that belt represents. That's what he right, you know,
that's what he wants is because it's still a business
where if you're the champion, you command the most money.
And that's real. If the Intercontinental champion made more money
than the WWBF champion, Hulk Hogan would covet the Intercontinental
(01:25:54):
Championship like you would.
Speaker 12 (01:25:55):
He.
Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
He'd glad to be the workers champion, right.
Speaker 6 (01:25:58):
Exactly, to get in that gym and show what he
could do. But yeah, they compare the relative strengths and
weaknesses of the two, their key wins and key losses,
and finishing moves and strategy. And I just put this
out there to highlight that real transition point we're at.
When Hogan exits the WWF stage, they want to make Brett.
(01:26:20):
Hulk knows they want to make Brett. Hulk doesn't want
to make Brett. Not anything particularly against Brett, but more
because what that would signal for his relevance in the
wrestling world and the WWF going forward. And what we get,
as far as I can tell, is Hulk Hogan starting
to throw a bit of a fit about being edged
out of the picture, about being edged out of the
top money spot, and using New Japan and using WCW
(01:26:43):
and using this HBO gimmick, and using all these other
things he's trying to do as basically pieces of leverage
to signal to Vince that if you don't think I'm
worth building around anymore, there are plenty of people who
will think that, And of course Eric Bishoff was most
prominent among them. But May third of nineteen ninety three
in Japan, you remember it from Paying Off the Pacific
(01:27:06):
Hulk Cogan as I want you.
Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
To, I want I want to. I just want to
point something out quickly, very very quickly, because I think
I think this is the case. Now in that picture
you sent me here, do you see his Do you
see uh Hulk Cogan's wristbands. Yeah, I believe those are
the ones that he's wearing at Bash of the Beach.
I believe you right. Yellow WWE is WWE wristband licensed
(01:27:33):
wristbands that you could buy at the merchandise stand, yes
you could, or you could buy them in the the
w merchandise catalog.
Speaker 6 (01:27:39):
Wasn't that what a what an addition when he came
back in ninety three, Now we have the sweat band
as part of the costume.
Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
Yes, yeah, the whole I mean, you know, his whole
like ninety three attire was such a thing. You know.
But I thought that was very interesting to me that
he was wearing because it wasn't I could see it.
I could see like he never I don't think he
really had that triangle logo in WCW. That triangle thing
was a very WWE thing. Yes it was, and with
(01:28:07):
the whole commania in it, and it just didn't. I
was like that, Nah, he's wearing something. He's doing something naughty.
Speaker 6 (01:28:14):
That was right, That was very those were like, you know,
they were they didn't fit. They were like anachronisms. You
saw like the wrestling buddies in the audience at Dash
at the Beach, right, WWF licensed merchandise. Couldn't get more
wwf ulll cokean than a wrestling buddy or the LJN.
Some fans have lj ns in their hands. I'm sure
people brought Hasbros. They didn't have any WCW hull coke
(01:28:34):
and merchandise. What else are they supposed to try? Can
I tell you anything?
Speaker 3 (01:28:39):
That was my my biggest My biggest wish actually with
Hogan going to WCW was that Hasbro would follow Wow,
like like Slim Jim did and some others. Yeah. I
was really hoping that that has Bro would follow Logan
(01:29:02):
WSW and we get a bunch of ww hasbrod you.
Speaker 6 (01:29:05):
Just fucking you know sometimes even after ten years. Yeah,
you'll open a brand new door. Yeah oh yeah, never
considered like a Johnny b Bad Hasbro. Yeah right, let
us sit here and like a true Vader Hasbro and
Arn Anderson.
Speaker 3 (01:29:21):
Has Bro Stunning, Steve os has Bro huh, like just
an Evad Sullivan has Sting, Hasbro Sting Hasbro h just
amazing at the thought, Like just I was like that,
(01:29:44):
I just thought that would make sense, you know, because
I already knew it's kind of funny. Well, I guess
because by this point, because I never got the ninety four,
like I never got the green cards. The green cards
never made it to my right, you know, it was
always you know, the last I had were the Purple cards,
and I think they were probably already done by this point,
(01:30:05):
you know, And so it was like I knew hasbros
weren't around anymore. They were gone. So to me, it
was like, oh man, what if he or maybe we
happen a little bit later where I thought that, But
I was like, what if what if they fucking went there?
I said, I know, they're going to have to do
new toys for for for WCW, but of course they
(01:30:27):
do fucking San Francisco toys. James, Yeah, which is so annoying.
Speaker 6 (01:30:30):
Which was one of the things that you could point
to that holding open the door for because Bischoff talked
about how kind of frustrating it was to get these
half hearted calls back from toy companies trying to get
licensing going because Glub was over Glube, I think had
already ceased to exist, or at the very least they
were no longer producing WW action figures. And WCW didn't
have toys for like three years.
Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
It's crazy.
Speaker 6 (01:30:51):
It's like, that's like cable stakes. You got to have
toys like that's that's how you make new fans. And
they didn't have it, and they it was it wasn't
for lack of trying. But Hogan comes in and all
of a sudden, we've got these lj and rip offs
all over the place, to the point you can still
find them. That's how surplus, how much surplus was created.
You can find those things in any vintage wrestling store,
(01:31:12):
no problem in the in the package. I mean, they
made an Alex right San Francisco toymaker. They made a
Colonel Pittman great, so you know they they make that
just makes sense. So all of a sudden, I'm holding
Boss this this hull COG and l j N. But
he's got a shirt that doesn't come off and a
bandana that doesn't come off. Yep, with that portally airbrushed
(01:31:32):
h O G A N on his head now instead
of up and this is what we have to This
is what we're dealing with. This is what we're dealing with.
Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
And you know what I did. You know what I
did with that? That that that that championship belt. The
San Francisco toy makers went, yeah, Whi's doing it? That
became my undisputed championship. Un I had. So I had,
you know, because I had I had the King of
the Ring ring. So I had two championship belts, two
(01:32:02):
w W championship belts. So the older one that I had,
I painted and I had it be like it was red.
I painted the strap red and I used silver paint
for the the Wayne Eagle stuff. And so what I
(01:32:22):
I used those that was that became my w c
W Championship belt. I used that one as the wc
W Championship unbelievable. And and so I had these two titles, right,
and so at one point I decided to to merge
the championships and I and so the the what was
(01:32:47):
going to happen was it was weird. It was like
they were going to merge, but not really merge. So
like there was going to be when they merged, they
were going to create this undisputed championship, which would be
the Championship of Championships, but there still would be a
WWWW title underneath. You know. It's like you know, essentially
(01:33:11):
it's like the Saudi Championship. Yeah, keep it in a
trophy case, you know, but no, but I would use
like that would be like that would be how I
kept better track of my world champions was like that.
When you had that belt, you were the real champion
of everything. You know, it was, it was, it was
(01:33:31):
grander than everything else. That's wild, weird ass times man.
Speaker 6 (01:33:38):
All made possible by Hulkogan's arrival in WCW A lot
of ways, correct, They all kind of fell into place
after that. But it wasn't the title at WrestleMania nine.
But it isn't like nothing happens until King of the Ring.
As far as we knew was American fans, nothing happened
pay enough, the Pacific listeners know, and people who you know,
looked at the history know. He went to Japan. He
went to New Japan and he wrestled case Jimudo and
(01:34:02):
in the Tokyo Dome, and he brought with him the
Wing Eagle WWF Championship. He wore that belt to the.
Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
Ring in fence.
Speaker 6 (01:34:09):
He said, he needed footage versusle reels of Hogan for
Bash at the Beach before they had him doing anything
on their own tapes. They used footage of him walking
down the ramp with the WWF title oh from New Japan,
who they had a promotional relationship with Antonio ANDOK. No
less than Antonio and Ok is in attendance and is
serenaded at Bash at the Beach nineteen ninety four as
(01:34:32):
the signal of the strengthening of that relationship as well,
which had somewhat soured under Bill Wats's regime, and Bischoff
looked to repurpose with his pal Brad Ringins being a
key executive in liaison for New Japan with the United
States back from the Minneapolis Days. But we know what
happens after the match. We know that Hogan sits at
the Days before the Japanese press, probably never expecting that
(01:34:55):
technology would evolve that the Americans would ever see this promo.
But he's out there trying to let the Japanese wrestling
public know that he's very willing to play New Japan
off of WWF. He's very willing to tell anyone who's
listening in that country that Japanese wrestling is hotter than
American wrestling right now, and there is more prestige in
coming to work for New Japan Pro Wrestling than there
(01:35:16):
is being the World Wrestling Federation Champion. This, hilariously is
something Hogan denied ever, saying didn't having never considered, I
guess that tape of it could get out now. It's
as easy as a keystroke on YouTube all these years later,
which really makes it an appropriate time to do a
full vetting of the holster because of how easy the
material is to access now. But here he is saying
(01:35:39):
the things that one would say if he is expecting
his WAF tenure to come to an end and a
new home, a new home to become the priority.
Speaker 8 (01:35:48):
Five times World Wrestling Federation Champion. This belt is just
a toy. It's like a trinket on a Christmas tree,
like an ornament. The belt that I want is the
one that the Great Muta has IWGP belt, because when
Hulkovin wins the IWGP Championship, which he should have right now,
it will prove the New Japan Pro Wrestling and Hull
(01:36:09):
Covin is the greatest, the greatest partners in the world
because I want all the great wrestlers to come to me,
and I wanted to come to Japan where I can
wrestle and not bullshit. I want to wrestle and prove
that I'm the dust Kibo Ken. There's an old saying
in the United States of America and that you can't
you cannot teach an old dog new tricks. But this
old dog does not need new tricks. I know all
(01:36:30):
the tricks. I've proven that I'm a survivor. I've proven
that I'm a leader, and I will not quit professional wrestling.
Many many people you've seen quit and come back, quit
and come back, but if you watch hulkovid, I have
never quit.
Speaker 9 (01:36:42):
I will always be here.
Speaker 8 (01:36:44):
And now that I'm back in Japan, tonight was a
great night for me because I was very worried because
Muda is a brand new star. He's one of the
best new Japan has, and tonight it was fun, it
was easy. I want bigger challenges.
Speaker 7 (01:36:56):
I want more.
Speaker 8 (01:36:57):
Opponents than Antonio, andok has time to step down from
his government job of a Senate.
Speaker 9 (01:37:03):
I would love to wrestle.
Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
It's the last fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that
(01:37:39):
knows the boys need their candy.
Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
It's the lapsed fan. He's a lapsed fan.
Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carno and j Piso.
Speaker 6 (01:38:20):
Would love to wrestle Antonio and Noki. This is a
guy looking to move on from Vince and acting out
in ways you would if if you wanted to send
a strong signal to the wrestling world at Hulk Hogan
is on the market. And to call the WWF Championship
an ornament on a Christmas tree, that sounds to me
like someone who knows that in just a matter of
(01:38:42):
weeks he's going to be forced to drop said championship.
Man oh man, he wants to downplay it sounds to
me like someone who knows this is coming.
Speaker 11 (01:38:51):
Give him another gay fans, he's up, pitched up, say
good night the yo go Zuda.
Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
Hold that and they're turning that. Drove up found this too.
Speaker 9 (01:39:06):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (01:39:08):
I didn't believe I kicked out of his leg Nobody
gets can't believe it.
Speaker 15 (01:39:12):
The food just natup the air PRIs you goes in
it kicked out him on his legs.
Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
I can't believe it. Never beat born. Has anybody done that?
Lies but a photographer. They all give that photographer down.
He shouldn't be up on the air press.
Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
A dangerous place to be. Well, he's puture like, oh
his camera.
Speaker 16 (01:39:34):
Exploded what not and hung his face, his cameracks clouting
and hungon's face.
Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
You goes in up preps a.
Speaker 16 (01:39:41):
Leadin un hugging, You go send the one he got two.
Speaker 11 (01:39:44):
Constata know you man, Hell.
Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Happened, obviously, his camera exploding.
Speaker 16 (01:39:56):
Ladies and gentlemen, let's go hard be no on the official.
Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
But what of this boat, like Richard to me on
you go.
Speaker 16 (01:40:14):
By my headlines in the papers in Japan are gonna
be up his eyes on a sign that's been in
parent from that explosion.
Speaker 3 (01:40:25):
Oh no, I can't call what happened because I don't know.
Speaker 9 (01:40:29):
It's obvious to me that that.
Speaker 3 (01:40:31):
Bright lights all right, flame Federation.
Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
Once again are too much for the hawkster.
Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
Yeah, what's the what's the mission there? Certainly not to expected,
God damn it, Bury the son of a bitch.
Speaker 6 (01:40:48):
And how about him saying the papers in Japan are
going to be full of the same country that Hulk
just made those remarks to.
Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
Yeah, that's really funny, that's really fucking funny.
Speaker 6 (01:41:00):
Let the games begin. There are several bonds ie drops
after that from Yoko to Hulk. Savage says Yoko was
squashing the American dream. Heenan declares, hulkamania. There he was
in ww kids holding wrestling buddies in the audience there
in Ohio, watching Hulk just get extinguished before their very eyes.
Speaker 3 (01:41:16):
The you know one of the things, who was the photographer?
I think it was Harvey Whippleman. And were they ever
were they ever going to pay that off? No, I
don't think so. I think they knew Hogan was going
but still like they were just gonna like let that
because that that always bothered me. Yeah, as a fan,
like I want to know who that scumbag was. Yeah,
(01:41:38):
Hulk should still be seating answers honestly, because that's a
huge loss for him, I know. And as we've joked
about for ten years, I can't believe. I still can't
believe he let he let he allowed Yoko's going to
drop the leg on him and pin him. That to
me is like, well, brother, dude, you know all all
(01:42:00):
I'll do. I'll do business too, but I'm not.
Speaker 6 (01:42:04):
It sounds to me like a compromise of like I
think it hurt me worse to lose to Brett, to
the sharpshooter in the middle. So let me find something
I'm willing to do, or at least I'm losing to
a heel and I can conceive of a comeback off
of it.
Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
Well, I mean, but why not just lose at the
bonds I drop? Why lose to the to the leg drop?
Like you know that that to me is insulting? Interesting?
Speaker 6 (01:42:24):
Well, I always felt the camera to the eye was mitigating,
you know, like I'll lose, but I need to have
some kind of hap.
Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
Well that that that that's it, I mean, yeah, yeah,
he he he lost dirty. You know, it wasn't he
didn't lose clean, and and that always is the uh
you know, that's the whole COVID way except for a
few people. So that that that that for sure. But
it just seemed weird to me that he would allow
a leg drop to be the move that actually put
him away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, come on, like,
(01:42:53):
are we really we're really just gonna ignore WrestleMania eight folks,
Like we really are just gonna you know, we're just
gonna pretend that it didn't happen ago it happens even
though it happens in fucking plane sight right there, Like
anybody who rents the tape is going to see it.
Speaker 6 (01:43:09):
I think that's why so many people buy the you
know Shango was later in the running story.
Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
Because they did. They didn't acknowledge it. They they ran
to wallpaper it over right. It's so pathetic.
Speaker 6 (01:43:22):
And there has to be instances of that before in
WWF where someone kicked out a leg drop, not that
I can recall off hand, but I don't know. While
the light drop is always kind of his finisher, I
feel like only in only in Japan did he did
people kick out of it. I remember, I can't think
of another instance before before Sid. I can't think of
an instance where someone can go to the lake drop.
Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
There you go, fans.
Speaker 6 (01:43:45):
Well, one person we did hear from in that clip
was Jim Ross and his very brief initial tenure in
the WWF. He was able to call King of the
Ring in WrestleMania nine and so was party to Hulk
Hogan's last you know Hurrah and political scheming.
Speaker 3 (01:43:59):
And here's JR.
Speaker 6 (01:44:00):
And his own podcast remarking upon what was kind of
in the air and what the legacy was of Hulks
finishing up with WWF.
Speaker 3 (01:44:09):
But this has to Austins. They have to.
Speaker 17 (01:44:12):
I imagine this piss is offense mcmon my goodness, why
wouldn't it. Yeah, he's made the guy rich and famous. Yes,
he's on top of the world.
Speaker 6 (01:44:21):
To be clear, he's talking about Hulk making those disparaging
comments in Japan. Yeah about the ww titles. Let's start again.
Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
But this has to Austins. They have to.
Speaker 17 (01:44:31):
I imagine this piss is offense mcmon my goodness, why
wouldn't it. Yeah, he's made the guy rich and famous. Yes,
he's on top of the world. He was, Everything was
built around him. So why aren't you professional enough? He's
sticking a Hulk to do the right thing for the business.
Speaker 18 (01:44:52):
You want out That Problemo would have lent me to
believe that you want out right, So let's get you
out of here here, and to do that, you gotta
there's gotta be a successor, and and and why I
couldn't have been Bret hart I I'll still, like I
said earlier, I don't know. I probably will never know,
(01:45:12):
but uh it was I thought it was a cheap shot,
and I thought it was the sign of you know,
there's so much paranoia conrad in wrestling, especially guys that
wanted to put somebody not wanting to put somebody.
Speaker 3 (01:45:25):
Over as if it's real.
Speaker 18 (01:45:28):
I don't get that. I don't get that. I thought
Hogan was being unfair. He made a fortune, he became,
like I said, rich and famous, because I can promise
you that uh New Japan would not want Hogan if
he couldn't if he if he wasn't rich and famous,
he was a star, right, so uh and who made
(01:45:50):
him a star? This made Hogan a star. And but
someware along the way that the waters get muddy and
you all of a sudden find out that, uh, you know,
maybe you're not as great as you think you were.
And it took a team to as they say, the
Texas Village or registered family or gragious children or something
they'd us to do something.
Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
Yeah, yeah, it was just I.
Speaker 18 (01:46:13):
Never understood that Hogan should have been extremely uh uh happy,
He should have been extremely thankful that he got this
major break. And look, he didn't do it by himself.
He ww didn't do it without Hogan. Hogan played his role.
(01:46:34):
But there's a time for everybody, you know, someday Roman
Reigns is going to lose the title in w w E.
Speaker 3 (01:46:42):
And it's just going to be time and so.
Speaker 18 (01:46:46):
But Hogan never saw it that way. He I never
understood that was always a I was always kind of
confused about his sometimes his motivation. But to not want
to put Brett Hart, who was one of the best
workers and maybe the best worker in the world at
that time, pure worker, maybe that that was what That's
(01:47:09):
what reet Hart was. So if I were Hogan, I'd say, well,
I know he's gonna make me look great. I know
we're going to have a hell of a contest. I
know he's going to take care of me because he
wants me to shine before he beats me, which is
just logical. Any opponent should want their adversary to shine before.
Speaker 3 (01:47:28):
They lose, just makes sense.
Speaker 18 (01:47:32):
So I don't know, that was just a lot of ego,
out of control, paranoia rest for paranoida is the worst
kind of paranoida there is. It seems to be like,
especially during that period of time.
Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
Fair Assessment a fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that
(01:48:19):
knows the boys need their candy. It's the lapsed fan.
(01:48:55):
He's the lapsed fan. Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnio, and.
Speaker 6 (01:49:01):
I would say, Yep, that's what's going on. And if
you think he's not bringing that to w c W,
then you are out of your fucking mind.
Speaker 3 (01:49:08):
For sure. You see threats around every corner. We have
this caricature of laps Hogan for a reason. What corner?
What did?
Speaker 9 (01:49:18):
Why?
Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
Why? Why didn't you want to lose to Brett?
Speaker 8 (01:49:21):
What?
Speaker 9 (01:49:22):
I didn't?
Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
Brother? I mean I was finally losing to Brett. Brother,
It's just that, you know, dude, I was. I'm all
about the thing is, dude. Well, people need to understand, brother,
It's about timing, Dude, when's the right time it's next
to lose to go from there at heart and I'm
all about that, dude. I understand. I'm listening. I do business, brother,
But what I want to tell you, dude, is that
(01:49:42):
I said, you know, I think we gotta hond a
little bit backwards.
Speaker 9 (01:49:45):
Brother.
Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
We're kind of right, you know, I can't just you
know what happened when the first time I get up
there and I and I jobbed to Brett Hart, dude,
and all of a sudden, it's like, well, where does
the whole hooven go from their brother, like where's where's
the money in Matt, I'm fine doing it, but the
question is where do we go from there? And then
where do we go from there? Like where do we
go ten years? I'm just gonna I'm just trying to
think aboutdue, you know, I'd like I like to think
about fifteen, twenty, twenty five years in the future, and
(01:50:07):
these guys telling me, these guys are telling me to
lose without telling me what's gonna happen in twenty years.
And I'm and that's the thing, dude, am I going
to be I went back in twenty years?
Speaker 6 (01:50:15):
Somebody just going to walk into this situation where I
just take all the downside, brother, without any plan on,
because that's when it starts to sound like justified PARANDOI
your brother to tell you that true.
Speaker 3 (01:50:24):
And I'm just I heard him out, brother, I heard both.
You know. I heard Vince out, dude. I heard I
heard a Stief's caakeout, proved beefcakeout too. You know, Jimmy
Hart kind of heard me out. And I heard him out, brother.
You know, I heard your Canzuna, dude. You know we
kind of all we're all getting I was I talked
to Skinner brother. We kind of all just kind of
gut around, dude and just figured out what's the best
thing for business. And Brenahar agree with me, dude that
(01:50:46):
if we're going to have him beat me a Summer Slam,
then I got to beat him like fifteen times before
Summer Slam. But Brett Haard agreed to that. You say,
and but the thing is, you know, you know, and
he was like, you know, was kind of like, all right,
you know I can do that, dude, I don't mind
doing that. But I said, I said, brother, well you
mind doing it on television, dude? And then by was
(01:51:09):
like whoa. And I said, brother, if you can't do
that and do it for me, I'm supposed to turn around.
I said, brother, do you do you mind doing in Montreal? Brother?
He was like whoa? Whoa? Dude. You know, I was like, well,
you know, how am I supposed to do business with you?
This guy something to the honors? Brother, is a time
honor tradition in the wrestling business.
Speaker 9 (01:51:25):
Brother.
Speaker 3 (01:51:26):
You know, dude, there's a timehard tradition that that the
guy who's going to lead the company in the future
loses to the other guy. Fifteen times beforehand. I don't
think that's fair, dude. I just you know, I was like,
I was like, I know, Vince, I don't know if
this guy really understands what the wrestling behind I said, Vince,
down and Bright, give him the lowdown, brother, the dick,
give him. I just I just don't think that this
(01:51:46):
is the money program.
Speaker 9 (01:51:47):
Brother.
Speaker 3 (01:51:47):
I'm just not digging the creative behind it, dude. And
I really don't understand where Brett Hart's mentality is, and
I can't. I don't know where your meal is either, Vince.
I mean, coming at me with the suggestion like this,
you know you're saying Brett Hart, I'm like, whoa, what
about but yeah, but what about hul Coogan? You got
Brett Hard? What about Hulk Coogan's herd my Horden? Feeling broken, dude,
(01:52:12):
broken hard, running hard for so long? Brother, kept you
out of jail, all right, I will keep you up. Well,
it hasn't happened yet, brother. You know, I'm just thinking, like,
I don't know what to think, dude, to tell you
the truth, because I thought we were thick of Steve's brother.
I thought we're going to ride this road together for
a long time, and all of a sudden you're getting
(01:52:33):
weird on me. Dude.
Speaker 6 (01:52:34):
I just want to pull off the side of the
road when we're going apace.
Speaker 9 (01:52:38):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
Yeah, I'm all about you know, dude, you got to
build a new talent. Brother. I totally understand that. I'm
all about that, dude. But what I want to know is, like,
you know, I bought I thought we got built this
thing together, built this house. You me, brother, modeling mile
in the you know, push, you know, just kind of
keeping things going up in a hotel in Atlanta, but
(01:52:58):
you know, writing movies, script's brother. But out here we
are and you're just saying, you know, just job the
bread Hart, Like, just do right now in my living room, dude.
I'm like what and I'm not, I mean, did you know?
I mean is that? What did you did?
Speaker 9 (01:53:13):
You like?
Speaker 8 (01:53:13):
What you like?
Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
Why am I going to job somebody in the living room? Dude?
You know what, where's the business in that? Like I'm
just gonna say, oh, Hulk Hogan, you know, job the
Brett Hart. You know, you just lay down for Brett Hart.
Like what I can't It's like, oh, you know. Vis
Mangos on television says Hey, you know, hold cold and
lay down for Brett Hart my living room. Dude, it's
like whoa, whoa whoa Like you know, how do you
(01:53:36):
come back from that?
Speaker 9 (01:53:37):
Dude?
Speaker 6 (01:53:38):
And I've been saying this living room thing over and
over again, brother, hoping, holding out hope, in my deepest hopes, brother,
that you're going to cut me off and say, you know, brother, Hulk,
I've never suggested you lose in the living room. You
haven't done that yet. Brother, I'm sitting here waiting that's the.
Speaker 3 (01:53:54):
Thing to do. So now you haven't. Actually you haven't
corrected me. Brothers make you think, well, wait a minute, dude,
is he actually think about how many jops? Terry? Terry
needless to say, I do not want you to lose
to Brett in the living room, Terry out. I just
want to be honest with you right now, Okay, I
have not been paying attention to anything you've been saying.
It's been a complete run on sentence of just bullsh yeah,
understand and fantasize. I've been I've been imagining whatever to
(01:54:17):
feel like to touch myself in the presence of a
of a particularly naked woman, and this is not it.
Now if you need to do a job in my
basement or my living room. Broll, I'd say basement. Do
I've never said baseball? What we talked wunder ground? Do
you try to bury whole coke mean terrence? I'm not
(01:54:38):
trying to. You wouldn't call them terrence, That's what you know.
I'm not trying to bury anybody. I'm simply trying to.
You know, we're trying to evolve. We are a you know,
it's a it's a it's a cyclically evolving business, the
w W. And you know we are you know, a
multi national, multi programmed conglomerate, and we have to you know,
(01:55:02):
we have offices. But what we need, you know, is
that we need to we always need to to to
think about the future and where are we going next?
And and is that with hul Cogan or is that
not with huld Cogan? Now I like to think of
it as being with Hull Cogan. I think hull Cogan,
this is this is your home, all right, this is
(01:55:23):
where this is where you reside. What do you mean reside?
Not figuratively? I would like you to evolve in figures, dude,
what do you I want to what do I got figures.
What do you mean figure? See for you, Terry is
evolving into our babe Ruth are in house living legend
and listening. You're the you will be you know you're
(01:55:43):
You're you are the living legend. You are the the
the slugger, all right, that's that's how we picture you.
And you're you're going to be that guy. You're going
to be the guy that did that. Every guy has
to beat you know? And and does that mean every
guy whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa?
What do you mean every guy has to beat? Dude?
(01:56:05):
What they have to beat you to?
Speaker 8 (01:56:08):
What?
Speaker 15 (01:56:10):
What?
Speaker 3 (01:56:11):
What do you mean that he's going to decide who's
gonna side who beats me? Well, I mean, you know
we we we book finishes, so you know that's a
T shirt. You know we we we book finishes that
provide entertainment outcomes. It's another word for Finnish entertainment outcome.
(01:56:37):
The outcome of this of this entertainment was Hulk Wayning.
And we we have a desirable entertainment outcome that we
believe is the proper way to go. And we see
that is moving Brett Hart into the the future position
of the championship Thronelet's if you wants the most distressing
to me. Brother, listening to all this and I'm listening closely, dude,
(01:56:59):
I'll like you. You know. It's one thing for me
to sit here brother, and you know, wait for you
to say whoa uh. You know, I don't want you
to lose in the living room, brother, while you're saying
crazy things and you say nothing, and that hurts badly enough.
But fifteen wasn't a hard number, brother, you know you
know me, I'm willing to negotiate so everyone can win.
It didn't have to be fifteen, brother, I could have
(01:57:22):
negotiated down to fourteen. Brother, Dude, listen, it doesn't happen fifteen. Dude,
I'm fine doing twenty. I'm fine. I'm fine beating Brett
twenty times. Then this is twenty five times myscussion, right, Brother,
we're open. You know it's not and it's all you know,
it's all to seal the deal type of thing, dude,
(01:57:42):
and are playing to hide the ball. Brother, So I
thought I throw a fifteen out there. Know what it
says anything? I mean? So I'm just trying to figure
out what is it? You know, where are we at? Like?
What is you know? I love that One of Logan's
great lines is I'm just trying to figure out, Yeah,
you are? You know, I just want to know you
(01:58:04):
know where your mind's at, dude, And we know where
you know where Bert Hart's minds that brother, and you know,
I mean personally, I think you know if I know
Bert Hard And I've thought to Burt Hart, you know,
call him in the room, Terry, what he's thinking? Why
we call him in the room? Well? Why whoa is
he here? From what I understand, Harry, I mean, Terry,
I mean, I believe in in in every one of
(01:58:28):
my employees being at my beck and call he says,
is he here? Everybody? Is he here? And Vince goes, well, Terry,
I believe And oh boy, someone's about to not quite
answer the question.
Speaker 16 (01:58:41):
Is he here?
Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
I mean that is a relative question. Are you here?
Speaker 9 (01:58:44):
Right? For that matter?
Speaker 3 (01:58:46):
What do you mean? I'm here? What else would I be?
Speaker 9 (01:58:50):
But are you?
Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
But are you here? Here?
Speaker 8 (01:58:52):
You know?
Speaker 3 (01:58:52):
These are the questions that we ask, you know, in
in terms of the creative development of our characters.
Speaker 6 (01:59:00):
Hour he's talking to Hulk Covid, his his friend and
working colleague, and he's superstar for almost ten years and
he's talking to him like he's presenting to investors. He's
meeting for the first time. That's Vince All. Needless to say,
nothing came of those discussions, and Hulk never lost to
Brett Hard and Hulk never really lost the WWF Championship
(01:59:23):
in a way that made you feel like the new
guy had been anointed and we can go forward from
this basis. And it was kicking and screaming with New
Japan and play and everything and all the subtext of
you know, sending those results to Japan where he made
the remarks he did. But as you mentioned earlier, wasn't
the absolute end for Hulk in a WWF ring.
Speaker 3 (01:59:41):
It just was on television.
Speaker 6 (01:59:44):
After that. Well, let's take the full measure. I mean,
you want to go back to March of ninety three,
his first match back before WrestleMania was in North Charlee. Yeah,
March eighth, ninety three, North Charleston, South Carolina, Hogan and
beefk the Brothers Beverly.
Speaker 3 (02:00:01):
Wow, that was there. That was their go to on
the road. Huh.
Speaker 6 (02:00:05):
Apparently it was Wow, Like you knows, must have won
him over and fucking uh Bloom must have won him
over in Awa or something.
Speaker 3 (02:00:12):
I don't know, Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 6 (02:00:13):
And they went to Augusta, Georgia on March ninth, ninety
three and did the rematch, and then they went to Lakeland,
Florida on March nineteenth, and Hogan and beef Cake beat
Money Ink before WrestleMania nine even happens, Wow, and nine happens?
May fourth, pardon me April fourth, ninety three. Not only
did Money Inc. Lose Money Ink Russell Hogan and Beefcake,
(02:00:34):
but Hogan of course wins the Deputatium Championship. By the
time it was all said and done, that's wild. And
then May third was the Fukuoka Do match. Hogan in
great mooda because he he was still allowed, if you will,
to make some paydays in Japan at the time. Comes
back to the States. May twenty first, ninety three, Pittsburgh,
Hogan and Beefcake beat Money Inc. With special referee Sergeant Slaughter.
(02:00:57):
Invite you to picture that one Wow Wow. Philadelphia. May
twenty second, Hogan beef Cake over IRS and Ted Dibiasse
and then East Rutherford the same matchup May twenty second.
Speaker 3 (02:01:09):
We go to June.
Speaker 6 (02:01:10):
They go up to Winnipeg on June fourth. Hogan and
Beefcake beat Money Inc. Minneapolis, June fifth, back to the
place that Hogan owned when coming into the company the
first time. He's going to say goodbye at Target Center.
Beating Money Inc. All but in New York June sixth,
Money Inc. Richmond, June eleventh, Money Inc. Indianapolis, June twelfth,
(02:01:31):
Money Inc. King of the Ring ninety three, June thirteenth,
ninety ninety three Nutter Center, Fairborne, Ohio. Kuzuna defeatshul Cogan
to become the WWF Champion. Where does he go from there?
To Columbus, Ohio? June fourteenth, Hogan and Brief Beefcake beat
Money Inc. Huntington, West Virginia June fifteenth, Hogan and beef Cake.
Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
It was not the better of the others. It was
Money Incorporated who they faced in Boston. Okay, yeah, we're
in Massachusetts, which I'm waiting for you to get to.
Speaker 6 (02:01:57):
Just there, Huntington, West Virginia and then Rosemont Horizon in
Chicago June twenty third, and then Boston June twenty sixth.
This is like the John Cena farewell tour for Hogan
in these cities. Yeah, they weren't playing it up that way,
but people didn't realize it was a money inc It
was money ink right. Yes, yeah, we had special refere
s Ource and Slaughter as well.
Speaker 3 (02:02:16):
Wow, I didn't that. I was not prepared for deeply.
Speaker 6 (02:02:20):
Difficult for you to process if you admite it to
that show.
Speaker 3 (02:02:22):
Oh I don't think I could have. He was nowhere.
Slaughter wasn't even involved. Was he on television at thought?
Speaker 8 (02:02:28):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:02:28):
Well, no, he was kind of like loosely involved because
he was I just remember in he wasn't named the commissioner,
but he in the summer of ninety two. He he
definitely they they mentioned that he took a behind the
scenes role on television, that he was in charge of
(02:02:51):
rules or something like that. Really, so yeah, I can remember.
I just remember that because it happened in the middle.
He was in the middle of a feud with a
Mountie in like the summer of ninety two, and then
he just was just retired out of nowhere.
Speaker 6 (02:03:05):
Then we go to July and WWF heads to Europe
for their Summer European tour. We in Austria on July
twenty ninth saw Hogan defeat Yokozuna by his qualification. Then
they go to Dortmund, Germany, where Hogan beats him by
DQ July thirty. July thirty one, they go to Hessen,
Germany where Hogan beats Yo Kazun again. And then August
ninety three and this is the last run. But before
(02:03:27):
we get to August, what well actually it is in
August it is.
Speaker 3 (02:03:33):
It is absolutely mind boggling to mass and just I
don't even know how to describe the feeling I'm having
that Hulk Hogan is wrestling Yokozuna for the title around
the world while the les Express is going around the
(02:03:56):
country like there is It's like there, there's an alternative
alternative reality. It really is, because like they're they're there,
you know, while while Hulk Hogan is doing his fair
work well tour, the new Hulk Hogan is is you know,
set in the stage for the future in his mind,
(02:04:17):
in their mind. That's just absolutely unbelievable to me, I agree.
Speaker 6 (02:04:24):
And to be a fan of Europe at this time
and to be you know, in England and to be
watching WWF television at the time we're gassing up for
Lex Luger and moving on from Hull Cogan. Yep, subtly
and directly. And then suddenly you're even though he's acting
just like Hulkogan. Of course he is and in fact
making his name by body slamming the same guy Hogan's
(02:04:44):
wrestling right in England, You're watching.
Speaker 3 (02:04:47):
W question did Hulk Hogan? Did Hulk Hogan body slam
Yokozuna in in Europe? I don't believe he did. Wow.
Speaker 6 (02:05:00):
I mean, these matches aren't on television. These were all
house shows.
Speaker 3 (02:05:02):
But I know, I know.
Speaker 6 (02:05:04):
Oh what was on television were the promost built up
ticket sales. These are the final promos of Hulk Hogan
and WWF in the first run.
Speaker 9 (02:05:12):
You're in Great Britain.
Speaker 16 (02:05:13):
The buzz is all about the summer ninety three tour.
I mean, the entire country, the British isles are talking
about the fact that the immortal Hull Cogan is coming
this summer. Some important dates to remember. Tuesday the third
of August we're going to be in Edinburgh at the
Royal Highland Center. Wednesday the fourth of August back in
London at Earl's Court one At Friday, the sixth of
(02:05:34):
August back up in Sheffield the Sheffield Arena. All the
action starts in those venues at seven thirty pm. Joining
us right now face to face the current World Wrestling
Federation Champion Yokozuna, along with his manager Mentor Smiley, Mister
Fuji and another gentleman joining us, the.
Speaker 11 (02:05:54):
Real world champion Hull Hogan.
Speaker 3 (02:05:57):
I say it like it is me, Geen.
Speaker 16 (02:06:00):
You are gonna be in the UK for this gigantic
tour and as I said, the buzz is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 11 (02:06:05):
Well, your darn right, I'm gonna be there, brother. I'm
there for a reason because in the UK I can
feel it, just like I can tell if it's gonna.
Speaker 9 (02:06:12):
Rain the Venice Beach.
Speaker 11 (02:06:13):
I can feel it in the air that this man
right here, Haul Cogan will probably be six times w
W champion. This is the eye of a tiger, brother,
this is the eye of Holster.
Speaker 3 (02:06:28):
I'm ready for you, dude.
Speaker 8 (02:06:30):
What is.
Speaker 15 (02:06:33):
Maaya going?
Speaker 3 (02:06:33):
Is ready for you? You are jes.
Speaker 11 (02:06:39):
You understand by you understand third times a charm brother.
First time you challenge when you beat me? Second time
I beat you. Second time you.
Speaker 3 (02:06:48):
Pro harbored me. I'm going all over.
Speaker 9 (02:06:50):
The UK to show all the hawk of Aniacs.
Speaker 11 (02:06:53):
When you believe in yourself and when you got the
power of hawk of ania even yog zudo in mister
Fuji can't prol harbor.
Speaker 16 (02:07:01):
Wait a minute, let me point out one thing mister
Fuji and Yoko Zuna. I'd have to say that Holster
is gonna have the home court advantage. I mean, his
popularity throughout Great Britain is second to none.
Speaker 15 (02:07:13):
Do mean nothing to me and Yoko Zuno. Boy Son,
you huggin, He's gonna say more you do the old dude,
my man, you will pay if they will do.
Speaker 16 (02:07:23):
I detect a little fear there in the eye of
Yoko Zuna.
Speaker 15 (02:07:26):
Yes, huh, Hogan, keep looking at your opponent, just raking
for you.
Speaker 3 (02:07:32):
Boy.
Speaker 11 (02:07:33):
You know what he's afraid of, brother, He's afraid that
I've tried power him power slam him in the UK
after I grabbed the WWF title, after the.
Speaker 9 (02:07:43):
Hulk of Maniacs run wild.
Speaker 11 (02:07:45):
The fear in his eyes is that mister Fuji won't
even be able to provide another bull or rice a
roni for the brother. You know something, what, mister Fuji,
I'm the real world heavyweight champion now, I'm gonna prove
it all over the UK.
Speaker 3 (02:08:00):
What you gonna do.
Speaker 16 (02:08:04):
Summer ninety three? Go this summer here in the UK.
Speaker 3 (02:08:08):
Ah, what I beat you, Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 6 (02:08:13):
H Can you imagine these promos and having six five
extra months of Hogan available to you?
Speaker 3 (02:08:22):
I mean I would, I would feel confident he was
going to make the Royal Rumble.
Speaker 6 (02:08:26):
And so while that was the last glimpse of Hogan Yoko,
this would be in a lot of ways the last
glimpse we'd get of Hogan solo against w w F
green screen backdrop, just by himself. And man, is he
delusional about all the stuff he's got going on. Oh,
this is Hull Hogan pretending taking WF airtime to pretend
(02:08:47):
that he's going somewhere other than just another wrestling gig.
Speaker 3 (02:08:52):
I mentioned before.
Speaker 16 (02:08:52):
It is the buzz of the United Kingdom, the buzz
of Great Britain, the buzz of the British Isles. The
summer ninety three tour is coming, and that means hul
Cogan is coming. He is standing by right now and
joining us. Hul Cogan along with manager the Mouth of
the South, Jimmy hart Holtster. This past week I talked
to my longtime friend John Hart and his wonderful family
(02:09:16):
up in Manchester and they firmly believe, as many fans
around the country do, that you're going to be coming
to the UK and that you're going to leave as
the sixth time World Wrestling Federation Champion. That kind of
fan support's got to make you feel great.
Speaker 11 (02:09:32):
Well, you know, at least you know what the buzz
is all about, Brother, because hul Comania is coming to
the UK for a bunch of reasons. But the number
one reason, Brother, is the proof that with Hull Cogan
managed by Jimmy Hart, it was my best friend Brutus
the Barbara Beefcake, we can conquer odds in the number
one odd is getting the WWF title back for the
(02:09:55):
sixth time. But you know, when you talk about the buzz, Brother,
there are no long faces a hal Coogan's face. Check
this out, Bro, All this is is a face of determination.
This is an angry hal Coogan, This is an aggressive
Halk Corgan. This is the eye of the Holster. Yeah,
the tiger and the thing is Brother, we want the
WWF title back. That's what's going a lot of people
(02:10:15):
buzzing they're still buzzing over my brand new movie, Mister Nanny.
They're buzzing because they just found out the Holster has
a brand new TV show called Thunder and Paradise just
coming your way.
Speaker 9 (02:10:27):
And they're really.
Speaker 11 (02:10:28):
Buzzing because they just found out that not only just
Jimmy Hart rock and roll, but Hawk Hoagan is a
rocker in a roller in a little fucky too. When
they found out about the brand new Monster Maniac Wrestling
bout fans coming their way, there's a lot to be
buzzing about.
Speaker 3 (02:10:44):
Brother.
Speaker 16 (02:10:45):
I'm very curious about thinking of your musical talents. I
know you play at tremendous face and of course Jimmy
Hart a tremendous vocalist. I like to sit down and
tickle the ivories myself every.
Speaker 9 (02:10:56):
Now and then.
Speaker 16 (02:10:57):
It could be a chance we could get together for
Little Jamson in the acer a victory party.
Speaker 11 (02:11:01):
Well, you know, brother, you figured in dude, you know
the one, not only Monster Maniac Rustling boot band.
Speaker 3 (02:11:07):
Just like I'm gonna bump my way all the way
to the.
Speaker 11 (02:11:10):
Sixth time w w F champion. There's a lot of
surprises coming my whole the Maniac's way in the UK
for the nineties movies TV shows the Monster Maniac Rustling
Boot Band hanging.
Speaker 3 (02:11:22):
On to the w W title.
Speaker 11 (02:11:24):
You know something, now that Jimmy Hart has been guiding
my career, I finally realized I can do it all. Brother,
Tell him, Jimmy, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:11:31):
The Houkstea phone rings all the time in the USA.
Speaker 4 (02:11:34):
Maybe Julian Wall right there and reached the records hoction.
He just called the other day and he said, we.
Speaker 3 (02:11:39):
Gotta have that.
Speaker 8 (02:11:45):
You.
Speaker 3 (02:11:46):
Oh my god, no, thank you. What do you think
of that? I think that is? Is that not his
thirstiest promo ever? That is somebody that is somebody right
there who is like, well, brother, I'm out of the out, dude,
so I might as well. You know, so good up
walk hand. That's what he's doing there, he is. He
(02:12:09):
is just off the fucking reservation, all right, forget it,
forget it, He's done. He's insane. Wow.
Speaker 6 (02:12:22):
I mean, I just thought that was so fascinating to
hear him sort of in one last ditch effort try
to make people care about all the other things that
he's telling himself are gonna make him money after he's
off the WWFT Like nobody cares about nobody gives a fuck,
and he's nobody'son to think anyone's gonna give a fuck.
He comes, I'm talking about mister Nanny, you know, which,
(02:12:42):
of course came out as he was leaving WWF. That
was such a bad look. That was such a bad
point to transition to the WCW, because mister Nanny proved
that he was nothing at the box office. It made
wrestling look like his Option B and Thunder Paradise went nowhere.
Speaker 3 (02:12:58):
I was actually, I'll tell you, it made Rustle look
like his Option A is what it did. Oh yeah,
that's the thing. That's well, that's what I mean.
Speaker 6 (02:13:07):
It made it look like the only reason he's in
wrestling is because he failed Hollywood Option B, and that
option A was he would, you know, be able to transition,
and he would admit as much later, but he would.
Actually it's funny when you ask Colch the reasons for
going to WCW before the Linda divorce and after the
lend of divorce, you get a different answer, of course,
we'll discover, but truly fascinating. I actually was surprised that
(02:13:30):
there was ever a mention of Thunder and Paradise uttered
on WWF television because I always think of that as
something that's plugged aggressively on WCWTV.
Speaker 3 (02:13:37):
Right exactly, Yeah, exactly. I mean that's just that's that's
I don't know what to make of that.
Speaker 6 (02:13:45):
We lived in the UK at that point. So it
was August ninety three, the last Hurrah munch in Germany,
he beats yo Kazuna by DQ August first, Berlin beats
him August second, August third, at the Royal halland Center
in Edinburgh, Scotland. He beats Yokazuna in London. On April fourth,
nineteen ninety three, at Earl's Court Exhibition Center in London,
he beat the qualification all qualification, Yes, sarth a bummer Sheffield.
Speaker 3 (02:14:07):
If what if? Like what if you fucking won the title?
Speaker 6 (02:14:10):
Even promos existing with him saying I'm gonna win a
six the WWF Championship sound it's it's bizarre exotic to me.
Speaker 3 (02:14:18):
It is because it is.
Speaker 6 (02:14:19):
He never uttered a word on television after the okas
in the King of the Ring loss.
Speaker 3 (02:14:23):
Not don't know what he wasn't on television. It's done.
Speaker 6 (02:14:27):
He's out there trying to get us, but you can
tell he's half one foot in, one foot out. You know,
he's like he's couching everything he's saying about wanting to
win a sixth title as one of a menagerie of
things that he's trying to accomplish right now.
Speaker 3 (02:14:39):
Along with success with movies and mister Nanny in his
fucking boot band.
Speaker 6 (02:14:44):
I mean, we've done Mister Nanny under the cinemat folks
should know. And just to tie this up, Sheffield was
the last one of Sheffield, England August sixth, nineteen ninety three.
Hull cogn beats Yokuz in vita qualification and that is
truly truly the end. How the hullko n ww front
right there in Sheffield, England. It's just like that last
match he had in TNA and England that nobody knows about.
(02:15:05):
It ended with a whimper without a television camera insight.
I mean, and how many times have we seen that, I.
Speaker 3 (02:15:11):
Know, where the where, what?
Speaker 6 (02:15:12):
Where the the The journey ends with a whimper, Yes,
even we even Hulk Cogan's journey ends with a whimper.
That's when you know that this is this is not
a business to get your hopes up about as a
fan or as talent. No, it will, it will disappoint,
It will dangle carrots, it will never let you eat them.
Speaker 3 (02:15:31):
That's not the idea. It's meant to disappoint, right, It's
built to disappoint. Thank you, okay, And I mean mister Nanny,
we've done it under the cinemato. What a great time
to do this time time period of Hulkogan too, because
we've done so much under the cinemat, from Thunder and
Paradise to Mister Nanny to all the Turner movies that
(02:15:51):
are to come that he's telling himself for you know,
part of the reason that he's going right and it's
going nowhere so fast in Hollywood for him. I mean,
you know, in many ways, you know, I would say
that that Mister Nanny was his real attempt at a
(02:16:18):
mainstream movie, because even Suburban Commando, it's like, you know,
it's still it's still under the WWE you know, during
during his time there, you know, like he he went away,
he came back.
Speaker 6 (02:16:35):
It's still a movie he talked between runs, and it
still kind of feels like w W Undertakers in it.
Speaker 3 (02:16:41):
Right right exactly, But this is his first thing and
it's like, you know, it's it's no, it's not like
it's a small thing.
Speaker 6 (02:16:50):
No, it's him trying to get you know, credit for
dressing in the two two and showing different kind of
side of himself.
Speaker 3 (02:16:58):
Be cool, actually a venture car since for the kids,
you know, I know, right, so for the kids. I
mean there there are I mean, the articles around that
time are just fucking hilarious.
Speaker 6 (02:17:09):
That's such great cinement stuff. You got to you know,
if you haven't heard those shows Man dot Com Slash,
the Lapsed Fan so much about Hulk's just psyche in there.
Speaker 3 (02:17:18):
Yeah, it really is. I mean, you know, you see
you read these these articles of him, and he's just
he's just not He's just not well, he's trying to
cater to kids at the exact time, gonna go on
fucking trial for you know, right, he's doing drugs to
appeal to kids. No, and uh, lying about that whole process.
(02:17:39):
I mean keep in mind too. You know there's also
this insane wrestling montage at the beginning, don't forget. Yeah,
that's spilling with Beefcake as the as the Zodiac No
holds bar. Yeah that's right, yep, Yeah, this is Beefcake.
It's like Kamala, I think and somebody else. It's it's
(02:18:01):
it's a wacky beginning. It's him getting together all the
guys that he's gonna bring with him exactly. And yeah,
it's a it's it's and it's a disaster. It's a
fucking disaster of movie. It's just awful. I mean, yeah, yeah,
it's it's it really, it really is. The is the
(02:18:24):
nail in the coffin of the whole Cogan movie career.
It really is. You can't say you ever got it back.
He did not. The only I mean, you know what's
funny is in doing the entire Hull Cogan filmography filmography,
his best performance is the one his last one, the
(02:18:44):
Nomeo and Juliet, where he basically plays himself as a
as as a you know, as a voiceover goof you know.
But he's the best part of that movie. And it's
it's it's wild. But yeah, it's it. He never recovered,
and he shouldn't have recovered, honestly, like, there's no reason
from recover. He's not a good actor and he's not
(02:19:06):
a good movie star. He just does not have that
His biggest and actually, when you really think about it,
It is funny to me that more wrestlers, especially of
that era, who tried to be in movies didn't like
Why didn't houlk Hogan try to go off script and
(02:19:27):
like kind of improvis lines, you know, because that's where
he's at his best is having more kind of freedom
and leeway. But reading scripted lines, he he comes across
so wooden and goofy.
Speaker 6 (02:19:43):
To me, it all comes back to what I think
was the key insight that we gleaned from tnh Yep,
he can come out every week in a speaking role.
He can come out every week and beyond six of
the tw twelve segments, no one gives a fuck unless
(02:20:03):
he's gonna fight somebody.
Speaker 3 (02:20:05):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (02:20:06):
And that's what this Rick Flair match at Bash at
the Beach nineteen ninety four drives home. That's why it
was a commercial success with high by rates. That's why
this show does a great number. But the WCW Saturday
nights and the clashes that he's a part of in
the weeks leading up to it don't do special ratings.
They don't do ratings that are considerably higher than what
they were doing the year before for those same months.
(02:20:26):
In fact, Saturday Night is dead even from nineteen ninety
three to nineteen ninety four in June.
Speaker 3 (02:20:31):
How can that be?
Speaker 6 (02:20:32):
You signed Hulk Hogan for Christ's sakes, and you're putting
them on television and your ratings aren't up year over year.
Speaker 3 (02:20:39):
How is that to be?
Speaker 6 (02:20:40):
It's because people care about Hulk Hogan when it's time
for the showdown, you know, they don't care about Hulk
Hogan otherwise.
Speaker 3 (02:20:50):
It's very strange.
Speaker 8 (02:20:53):
What did you know?
Speaker 3 (02:20:53):
I mean, did WWE Television do well outside of the
special you know, like their weekly televis vision. Did it
do like well when he was on you talked about
w CW no WW like back in the day, like
back in the boom? Like was it not really?
Speaker 6 (02:21:10):
Because it got really in that the only thing he
really did was Saturday It's main event.
Speaker 3 (02:21:15):
Right, That's what's so? Yeah? Okay, But like if he
did a promo or something like that, did it did
it do any anything? Like? He never did it.
Speaker 6 (02:21:22):
It's hard because it's just an insert promo. I mean,
that wouldn't be something that you would watch because you
knew Hulk was going to speak this week. I mean
they would kind of tease it at the end of Superstars.
Who's going to talk next week but not really we'll
hear from but no, no, it was never like it
was never a thing that you know, episodes of Superstars
or Challenge or All American Wrestling or Primetime Wrestling that
(02:21:43):
Hulk Cogan appeared on did exceptional ratings because he was
so sparing anyway that there really wasn't much of a
reason just to isolate that. I mean, that's kind of
the that's that's kind of the one model that they
that they really every every yes, you know top kind
of take like, yes, he's not. They fell into this
(02:22:03):
thing where like when they went to weekly television live,
they abandoned the idea that like the champion should be
a sparing appearance that you only get on the road
if you pay your ticket to see the match, and
you're not gonna see him on television.
Speaker 3 (02:22:14):
But they went weekly.
Speaker 6 (02:22:15):
He was like, no, what's to be expected of the
champion is that he he's on television every week talking
and wrestling. It's like absolutely not, absolutely not I mean
trying to win the Monday night Wars.
Speaker 3 (02:22:26):
But right I was gonna say that the you know,
as we've said, we've said this a lot. The Monday
Night Wars ruined wrestling, oh wow, because because when the
format changed, it just it it ruined it because I
just took a lot of things off the table that
really made wrestling magical. Well, it made it also made
(02:22:47):
wrestling a little more feasible because you could you know,
before before the Monday Night Wars, you didn't. I don't
think the champion was on Raw every week. O. He
definitely was not, you know whoever it was, you know,
definitely not a month would pass and they wouldn't even
mention the champion, right, well, they'd mentioned they just wouldn't
feature feature Yeah, I think I think you do have
(02:23:09):
to mention the champion all the time, Yes, you just
you just don't have to feature them all the time.
Speaker 6 (02:23:13):
It just wouldn't surprise me if that did happen. If
they just got a program going that was a raw
program without any intention of taking it through to the
pay per view and just for a while, we didn't
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (02:23:21):
And for God's sake, Hogan wasn't on wasn't outside of
those pre tape things in ninety three, you know, he
did a couple of pre tapes from from like location,
I think of a thunder and paradise and that was it.
Speaker 6 (02:23:33):
Well, he came up in a system where you you shot,
if you're going to do TV, you shot a month
of it in one night. This idea that like you
got to make TV every week like that was no way,
no fucking way.
Speaker 3 (02:23:46):
And and and that's and the Monny Night Wars ruined it.
The Money Night Wars ruined it because they were because
there was such a demand to you know, be special
at single week. You needed the star power every single
week so could win the night. But when that ended,
it's like they they caught themselves in a in a
(02:24:08):
position where they couldn't go back. Genie was out, you know,
the toothpaste without a tub, and there ain't no going
back with that. And so it's wrestling has forever suffered.
Well it just because of that. It just gave away
the idea of building to the live event. You know,
it's just well completely seated the idea. No, but even that,
even that, it's not like it's just you don't need
(02:24:31):
to I mean, Roman reigns prove it. You don't need
to have your champion on every week. You shouldn't have
to have your champion every week. You shouldn't have to
have everyone on every week, Like you should be able
to get by with a handful of people and you know,
tell some concise stories that week, and then next week
you have different people. You know, I know they do
(02:24:53):
do that now though I mean, okay, maybe they do.
The champion, Yeah, well the champion is, but I mean overall,
like you didn't see everyone on the roster, you know,
who had a program doing every little thing. I mean,
it's just it's just all different. And and again I
blame them Monday Night Wars, well.
Speaker 6 (02:25:09):
The Monday Wars with the thing with Monday What Night
Wars was that not only was the champ on every
week or the top featured act, every show ended with
Steve Austin and the nWo every single show. Every show
had to end that way. They didn't have the balls
to have a show end any other way really, And
and that's kind of that's back to where it used
to be, where like any given week Raw, we'll have
a main event featuring a different program, you know, won't
(02:25:30):
be the main event has to be one person for.
Speaker 3 (02:25:32):
A single time.
Speaker 6 (02:25:33):
But I think when I was a live event, when
I meant was more that you know, the proposition of
the audience isn't like, if you really want to see
the big stars in the big matches, you got to
buy a ticket and go to a show that's not
on television. Sure, that is so gone, and that used
to inform how you did television, and that used to
make television kind of more of a chill like experience.
Speaker 3 (02:25:50):
Yeah, you know, and then I understand, like I get it.
I mean, you're everyone they're trying to sell the Yeah,
you know, the pay per view, which I get, and
that's and that's actually fine. But I also don't think
you need to have it. You know, you can have
he shouldn't. It's just this, the this formula is just
so Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just don't. Roman wouldn't
(02:26:15):
be on TV. You know, he was the champion. He's
three years and he's he's the exception. Like he's really
the exception. Money he still works in Lesner too, Yes,
Lesner too, the real star. Yeah, exactly. The ones who matter,
they don't. The ones who matter aren't on television.
Speaker 6 (02:26:34):
How about that they're not in And they're not only
not on television because they don't want to work all
those dates, they're also on television because they know that
that's going to make them an even bigger deal.
Speaker 3 (02:26:45):
Think about that, Johnson, when you turn right.
Speaker 6 (02:26:48):
But you got all these chumps, like you know, fighting
for TV time and feeling all paranoid if they don't
get TV time, and it's like, I'm sorry, if you're
If you're a real star, not being on television not
only helps you physically and mentally, but it also helps
your appeal.
Speaker 3 (02:27:02):
And it should be right. It should be a requirement.
People should want to see you more the more you're away.
If you're afraid the people don't forget about you because
you're not on television, then you're probably not over. And
you're also yeah, exactly, you're just you're a fucking loser on.
Speaker 6 (02:27:16):
The grand spectrum. Perhaps yes, you fall more on the
loser side. All that to say, hul Cogan is entering
a very choppy period. After the WWF European Tour that
ended his run. He did go back to New Japan
on September twenty third, nineteen ninety three. At the Oklahoma Arena,
he and the Great Mooda defeated Road Warrior, Hawk and
Power Warrior. There's a match for you who's Power Warrior
(02:27:37):
that is Ken's K Sasaki, the guy that Hayes reconstituted
the lod with after falling out with Animal Wow. And
then June a pardon me. September twenty sixth, nineteen ninety
three at Castle Hall in Osaka, Hulkogan defeats KG Mudo
in the Do You Want to Climax Special in nineteen
ninety three and nine minutes and fifty five seconds. And
then the final match that hulk Hogan has between the
(02:27:58):
WWF run and the w ACW run is January fourth
of nineteen ninety four at Tokyo Dome of course, New
Japan Battlefield. Hulkogan defeats Tatsumi Fujinami in thirteen minutes, so
a couple more checks to cash over there in New
Japan after the demorphic thing ends. And then it's a
question October ninety three, mister Nanny comes out it had
been filmed in ninety two during his Wrestlmania eight hiatus.
Speaker 3 (02:28:21):
Right, yes, yes it was, And to the point earlier.
Speaker 6 (02:28:24):
About HBO being in play and not necessarily WCW from
the beginning. Here is an article from October tenth, nineteen
ninety three. Okay and the New York Daily News. New
York Daily News knows what they're talking about, Hogan's hero.
Just when Hulk Hogan, it reads, legitimizes himself and walks
away from the world to professional wrestling.
Speaker 3 (02:28:42):
Okay, the powers that be pull him back in.
Speaker 6 (02:28:46):
Even though the Hulkster is making the national rounds promoting
his movie Mister Nanny. This is obviously before it came out,
so before it was a flop and yeah, considered as such,
and is all set to celebrate his action venture TV
show Thunder and Paradise being picked up for thirteen weeks
of primetime syndication. He's really wrestling with the idea of
donning his singlet once again. He never wore a single. Well, no,
(02:29:08):
that's not true. But for God's sakes that this writer
thinks he's dressed like an amateur wrestler out there.
Speaker 3 (02:29:14):
Can we be adults? Can we be adult? Please? He
didn't fucking wear a goddamn singlet. He's not a fucking idiot.
I mean, he's a fucking idiot, but come on, not
that much of a fucking idiot, we hear.
Speaker 6 (02:29:24):
The article reads, Ted Turner, who happens to own the
World Champions Wrestling League is about to launch a news
I'm sorry, what now, the WCWL. They actually did capitalize league.
So yes, the WCWL is about to launch a new
league that will put on only huge supercard events each year,
but will be available across the globe through pay per view.
(02:29:46):
We understand Turner is dangling a healthy four year, one
million dollar per match contract at the Hall Oh my God,
and is asking him to do for the new league
what he did for the WWF. Sources say Hogan is
this close to grabbing the deal but wants to be
called by his real name. Terry Malaya should sign Boy.
Speaker 1 (02:30:09):
Fan Wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the boys
(02:30:43):
need their candy. It's the Lampsed Fan. He's a lapsed
(02:31:19):
fan wrestling podcast with.
Speaker 3 (02:31:21):
Jack and JP.
Speaker 6 (02:31:23):
So there is a huge, inappropriate, basically untapped market in
Europe and Japan, and Turner smells the kill here. A
source said, great, but doesn't anyone care that the world
may be robbed of a great budding thespian.
Speaker 3 (02:31:36):
That's a great question. Listen, we I'm all about the buddy,
the buddy Thespian, the butting thespian. He was I think
It was on a Leno show. He was asked about
being a thespian and he looked at the guest next
to him like, I'll paddict. Hesn't know what thespian meant?
What he's very good lesbian? Am I a lesbian? Well?
I don't I like women? I think?
Speaker 8 (02:31:59):
Do I? What?
Speaker 3 (02:32:02):
Why would he want to wrestle with Terry Blay? I
can't believe that. What a stupid idea, Terry World Champion,
Terry you know why? You know why because because as
an actor, Hulk Hogan is a goofball name. So if
he starts wrestling as Terry Belay, maybe people will know
him as Terry Belaya.
Speaker 19 (02:32:23):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (02:32:25):
Yeah, that to me is like him being like, I'm
the real reason this all worked. I don't even need
Vince's name.
Speaker 3 (02:32:32):
Right.
Speaker 6 (02:32:33):
That's true too, That is true to those discussions were
like and the fact that was involved is so interesting
to me. It kind of adds up because the tone
of that PWI article.
Speaker 3 (02:32:44):
Wait minute, but.
Speaker 6 (02:32:46):
That's all because it's HBO, right, he's what he said, Well,
I'm putting those pieces together. This article doesn't mention HBO,
it just mentions a third league.
Speaker 3 (02:32:56):
That turn because HBO. I don't know if it was
back then, HBO is Time Warner wasn't Time Warner back then?
Speaker 6 (02:33:02):
No, it was, it was Time Warner. But Turner hadn't
merged with Time Warner yet. Oh, I see there were
still separate companies. And I think I don't even know
if if Warner and Time had merged merged yet. It's
it's coming, so it wouldn't be too much of a
leap to think that, you know, the relationship is already there.
(02:33:24):
There's two kings of cable there, HBO and Ted Turner.
But man, just to think about what that could have been, like,
like what they were thinking that No one ever talks
about that because it never went anywhere. But it's kind
of the same card he played when w W folded
and he's out there like you know, x w F
and he's got these like one off ideas that are
basically like Hulk Hogan comes to your country, you know,
(02:33:46):
as specifically as they mentioned there Europe in Japan. I
think he sees a play there because he's still doing
good crowds at a time when the when the domestic
wrestling market is depressed and they could give a fuck
about Hulk using steroids in Japan, you know, right exactly.
It's like the further leaves in their minds. I hope
please use more, please do That's right. But yeah, Meltzer
had said in The Observer, there was definitely some truth
(02:34:07):
to the idea of HBO talking with hul Cogan about
doing a limited amount of wrestling, despite repeated denials from
the company. But I don't think anything ever got past
the extremely formative stages. Well, Jimmy Hart is in play.
We heard him in those promos for the Yokazuna matches
in England. We know that he's now firmly a fixed
at the hip to hull Cogan.
Speaker 3 (02:34:24):
How did that come to be?
Speaker 6 (02:34:25):
Because that would be relevant to his WCW debut as well,
because everywhere Hulk goes and that early WCW run, Jimmy
Hart is. Oh, I know in the camera frame, he's
such just a round he is on the frame.
Speaker 11 (02:34:37):
I do.
Speaker 9 (02:34:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34:38):
I've always wondered how, Like, I mean, I know where
it started on television that he you know, he started
when when Beefcake get waffled by Money, inc. But I
never really understood, like, how did that relationship really awsome?
Speaker 6 (02:34:51):
It came from mister Nanny, according to Jimmy hart play book,
Yes Corner Jimmy Hart's book Vince Speaking. You know, as
the trial is to taking shape, the grand jury proceedings
are happening, Help comes to him and says, look, Jimmy,
because he's got so much going on, you know, the
lawyer's meeting up on this and everything. Well why Jimmy, Well,
I think because he had been around him the WWF
(02:35:12):
so long and had want his trust. Okay, yeah, I
think that's pretty much what it came down to. I mean,
Jimmy was somebody that you could count on to well.
But they used to say about Briefcake and others like
what they and what's his name, Tony Altamari? Before that,
they would just carry his gimmicks, you know, like it's
so that if someone popped, if someone popped pulled the
(02:35:33):
car over, or someone popped him at an airport, if
someone else is carrying the drugs and not.
Speaker 3 (02:35:37):
Him, you know, so he doesn't get arrested. Fucking hilarious.
Speaker 6 (02:35:41):
But you know, I think it's it's part part that,
but part being able to make sure that you know,
he gets on the plane and doesn't have to worry
about the logistics of I need to be here at
this time to make this shot, to make you just
just Jimmy just tells you time to go home, you know,
and he's just that's that's how Jimmy hard to say.
That's the second half of his whole life. Basically, it's
(02:36:03):
just managing hul Cone's affairs in that way. And a
lot of guys had that, you know, World Warriors had
Paul Ellering, sid had Harvey Whippleman, you know, and brought
him over to w Towa for that reason, because they
keep them together on the road, and pretty pretty soon
you're convinced, as the wrestler that you can't fucking survive
without this guy, Jimmy writes in his book. Throughout the
(02:36:24):
investigation and during the grand jury proceedings which took place
before the trial, Hulk cut back his wrestling schedule. Ultimately,
he convinced me began exploring separate paths. At the same time,
Hulk came to me and said, look, Jimmy, how would
you like to work for me full time? I'm about
to do some promotion for a movie called Mister Nanny.
I'm going to have to start traveling and doing some things,
and I'd like to have somebody with me to help
on the road. I'd like you. I'd like to have
you with me. I admit the offer was interesting. He asked,
(02:36:46):
what do you make last year? I told him, and
then Hulk said, I will have a cashiers check out
your house tomorrow afternoon if you'll agree to this, because wow,
the truth is, Jimmy, I need you. I'm going to
do more movies. I'll be going overseas to promote this stuff.
I'll be all over the place. I want somebody with
that's capable of helping business. I think what you want
to say, I'll be doing more movie. I know, well,
you know he's he's delusional right now. He's thinking this
(02:37:08):
is going to be the beginning of the huge part
of it.
Speaker 4 (02:37:10):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (02:37:11):
I remember I was like a brother. I'll do all
this this idea of action of venture comedy, the family
comedy that the kid im won't be afraid to bring
them because it's not all blood and guts, dude, but
there's still plenty of action. There's still plenty of blood
and guts, brother, but it's not like enough to like
make you know, mothers not you know, be what exactly? Yeah,
(02:37:33):
I see you about to say something. Did you say something.
Speaker 6 (02:37:38):
Somebody can really depend on? As anybody knows, Jimmy hart
Wright's managing a wrestler inside the ring is nothing like
managing the day to day affairs of a star entertainer,
which is what Hulk was still. By that time, I
had done enough behind the scenes work for the WBF
that Hulk thought I could handle the job. As I've mentioned,
Vince McMahon had always put me over, always spoken highly
of me, and called me the company's best employee. Help
knew and respected that. There's your answer right there, Boss,
(02:37:59):
as to why it is, I tried, oh gosh, this
is great, but let's talk about it more when you're
really sure of your plans. And then I really didn't
think much more about our conversation until a week later
when the phone rang. It was Hulk saying, Jimmy, me
and Linda, his wife, would like to come and buy
your house. A little while later, I was inviting them in.
We sat down and he said, look, I've thought of
everything out there I could have worked for me, and
I really want you with me the whole time you've
(02:38:20):
been in New York. You've always been dependable, You've always
worked hard. He brought up the time he'd asked me
to go out and manage Rick Flair and other things,
and then he said, Jimmy, I need you. I guess
there was a match where Heenan wasn't there and he
needed a heal manager involved.
Speaker 3 (02:38:34):
Jimmy, I need you.
Speaker 6 (02:38:35):
I've got a cashier's check in my hand for your
whole salary for a year, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
I told him that the amount was fair, but that
it really only represented my bass out. Here goes Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (02:38:48):
Here we go. Well what's the manby? Oh, I can't
believe it. Look, that's such a great offer, you know I.
I'll tell you something, daddy, I come on the bit salary.
Speaker 8 (02:38:58):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (02:38:59):
Again? Else, By the way, keep in mind he is
he is talking to Hulk Cogan with a megaphone. Yes
he is.
Speaker 6 (02:39:04):
It is in his own house. He's looking to get
more money. Because as soon as you tell a wrestler
that you agree to their price, that's just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:39:12):
Right of course. Well that's before merchandising comes in. And
you know what else I make and you know, bonuses
and stuff like that. Oh okay, well here, what's that?
Well if you add then you know, it's another fifty
thousand dollars. Great, okay, yeah, sure, no problem, will do it. Well,
that doesn't include this other you know, I've also got
these these private moments, you know, where I get privately
(02:39:37):
requested for certain appearances that you know, so I'll be
giving up those as well. So that's another two hundred
and fifty grand brother, whatever you need, dude, great, great,
let's let's sey well, you know, but there's also one
other thing too. There's also there exactly and and you
(02:39:57):
know I need a wife, so what are we going
to do about that? Uh, that's another million dollars right there,
so I can buy a wife and I can get
my sister a house. Oh whoa brother? Okay, dude, okay,
we'll do it, brother, Melani I did. We'll do it.
What you and and and okay, great, excellent. Well you
(02:40:19):
know what, like you know what, there's one other thing too, brother,
what just double it? Right?
Speaker 13 (02:40:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:40:27):
One thing? Walk god, well you have to double it
at the end for me to say, yeah, well, why
what do you mean why did what does that was
that cover nothing. I just want you to double the
price unless you want to lose me. Unless you want
to lose me, I can walk, yep, and I'll go
get my miserable base salary that that I was going
to get, and that's it the whole time. I'll do
it out of just spite. Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (02:40:48):
I told him that the amount was fair, but that
it really only represented my base salary because I'd always
made a idiot git more from the sale of dolls
and T shirts and other merchandise. He said, no problems.
Speaker 3 (02:40:57):
What dolls?
Speaker 6 (02:40:58):
Yeah, there was no Jimmy Hart dolls. Well there was
an LJN, wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (02:41:02):
Let me think it like there might have been an LJN.
But still by that point he's not making anything. There's
no LJN. They're not being sold right, they're done. Well,
if you take away to average and you regress, there
was an LJN. There was an LJN. Yeah, that's it,
he said, no problems, like fucking he looks like he
looks like a Ringo star. Oh yeah, that LJM. Lj
room are fucking brutal. Oh I know they're awful.
Speaker 6 (02:41:26):
He said, no problem, we could build it. Up a little,
and then I asked about the bottom line, Hulk, What
if I get seriously ill in a month? He said,
the money's yours. Oh my god, what if I don't
like it? Well, before you leave, smooth things over with
e Vince. Make sure it's okay for you to come back.
If you don't like the job, you can go, no
hard feelings, whatever you need, because I need you. I'm
gonna do TV series two Thunder Paradise, and I want
(02:41:46):
you with me. I'll give you a little pardon it
and you'll make the residuals off that. Well, what if
I want you to give me money for doing nothing?
I don't understand, Terry. What if I want all the
money you make for the rest of your life? What
if I want Yeah, well we didn't talk about that,
Like why can't I get all your money? Why can't
(02:42:07):
I get all your money? That went from that went
from from like, you know, hey, Jimmy's gonna see how
far he can take it. He's a Carnie, can I
It went from can I get all your money? To
why can't I?
Speaker 3 (02:42:20):
Exactly even though he hadn't said even though he hasn't
said no, just you know, Theoretically speaking, why can't I
have all your money? Yeah, like even stuff you earned
before you even knew me. How's that fair? If I
don't have your money, I'll give you a little part
in it. You'll make residuals off that, Jimmy, take your cashiers.
Look at getting getting the union, brother, Like you can
(02:42:41):
ride that train for a little bit. Like it's it's
it's all gravy, dude. Life a series of runs, brother,
and I'm about to do the biggest run of your life. Dude.
It's uh. Well, perhaps mister Hart is too foolish to
know when his ship has come in.
Speaker 9 (02:42:57):
I I.
Speaker 3 (02:43:00):
Is it it?
Speaker 6 (02:43:00):
And you're with me full time? Holt tells Jimmy Hart. Wow,
So I talked to Vince he Jimmy writes, I he
appreciated my position and wished me well, saying that if
every wanted to come back, the door was open. With
all the uncertainty in the business.
Speaker 3 (02:43:12):
Ye, you know you're I just want to say, you
know you're you. We You've been a pleasure, Uh more
than welcome. I understand. Listen you you follow whatever your
heart desires. We we follow you understand. Great, thanks for
coming in. Good to see Patterson. What's up? Boss?
Speaker 9 (02:43:29):
Who was that?
Speaker 3 (02:43:30):
It's Jimmy Hart. Boss on a gimmick? Jimmy Hart's why
what did he wants to go work for hoganenough? From
what I what I gat ORed? Not a gimmick? Or
does he know that he's not going to get paid?
Speaker 13 (02:43:43):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:43:43):
Yeah he does. He's not going to get paid. I
mean he Hulk will pay him. But I don't know. No,
he's not. No, he's not, because that's the you know what,
that's what I take from Hulk Hogan for being Hulk Hogan. Ah, well,
I don't think he knows that he's not going to
get that, right, That's right? Are you sure he doesn't
know anything about steroids in the company? Which one Jimmy Hart.
(02:44:05):
Jimmy Hart, Well, you know he I'll tell you what
we will know because I did. I did put surveillance
in his house. He went from who was that? I
don't even know who that was too. I put surveillance on.
Well why did you do Why did you do that?
Jimmy Hart? Well, I put surveillance in everybody's houses. You
(02:44:25):
have surveillance too, I know everything you do. I watch
everybody all the time. But I would that have anything
to do with whether he knew about steroids in the company.
How could it not. I'm confused what I know you
are because you're not thinking forth dimensionally. Wow, i know
(02:44:50):
what's coming down the pike. And I'm already beyond that. See,
I'm beyond the trial. I've already been acquitted. Wow, I'm
setting up my victory lap.
Speaker 12 (02:45:11):
Sunday, August third, at noon, The Lapsed Fan takes on
Times Square tickets at Comedy Village dot com. There goes
the neighborhood. You fucking bitch.
Speaker 3 (02:45:19):
You're right in the middle of it all.
Speaker 9 (02:45:20):
That's really where we belonged.
Speaker 6 (02:45:22):
With all the uncertainty in the business. Jimmy Wrights and
after all my years and wrestling, Hulk's offer was just
too good to turn down. I put the money in
the bank. Really, the whole thing tells you a lot
about the character of Hulk Hogan.
Speaker 3 (02:45:33):
Jimmy's just counting money, man, That's all he's doing, making
sure the money's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And look, look,
all he needs is money to color that hair. He counts,
he countner it gets the more he needs the color.
This guy will count the change at the counter. You know,
what I mean, he's that absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 6 (02:45:51):
He didn't know if I was going to get sick,
quit or screw up. But he gave me the whole
amount up front. As I said, only tips. He tips
exactly eighteen point when he has a eighteen and it's
to the fucking penny. God, all right, you know, you
know Jimmy Hart is a fucking little bitch when it
comes to spending money, all right, it is.
Speaker 3 (02:46:15):
It is brutal. He will not spend a penny more
than he has. He will not split the check evenly,
no way. Ever, you're paying for everything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know you had all the drinks, buddy, I mean,
I mean, I mean you know this was your idea
to come out. Oh my god, I think you should
pay for me. Yeah, I'll pay for you for with
(02:46:39):
that position, as I said, in that position, dude, exactly.
That seems to be the problem. What that's his? What
that's his?
Speaker 9 (02:46:50):
What?
Speaker 6 (02:46:51):
Everyone has one? As I said, I left the WBA
fun good term, so I've learned not to burn it
any bridges. Hulk lost his title Yo Kazuna and June
of ninety three, and that was it. We were off
and running from then.
Speaker 8 (02:47:01):
On.
Speaker 6 (02:47:01):
I was with him all the time doing whatever he
needed to be done. I'd be his go to guy,
making sure everything he needed done was done right. A
lot of it was promotion and publicity stuff. I'd screen
media people, for example, and made sure interviews were completed
on schedule. It all began with promotion for the movies.
Speaker 3 (02:47:14):
Like again, could you imagine, Oh my god, I knowed
a legit being a legit media person and you gotta
go through this fucking clown. It feels like you've already
done an interview by the time you get to the end,
exactly like you know, think about meeting Jimmy Hart. What
ellan are you with? Baby? And you're gonna call the room?
Is it the hair up high? Oh god, okay, he's
(02:47:37):
the hair up two inches of like doing like six
inches above his fucking head. All right, little fucking bee
hive thing there he's got going on, you know, sunglasses
inside and and just awful teeth. It's just I mean,
what is this? You know, what do you like you're
dealing with? This guy's supposed to be a legit individual,
(02:48:00):
Like where did this fucking this guy's supposed to be
a legit individual it's so awesome. It's what what is this?
Look at him like, I mean, this is the guy
I gotta see before I get interview, the real guy.
This this guy fucking you know, negotiates for the other. Like,
(02:48:23):
what the fuck this guy plans for him? Who is
this little dweeb, this little muskrat the fuck? And I
imagine he's wearing his fucking uh uh uh you know,
what do you call it? The jackets that he were
what do you call it? Air air brushed? Air brushed, yeah, airbrushed,
(02:48:44):
fucking Hulk Hogan jackets who's not wearing normal clothes? Just
fucking like just awful. I mean, he's he's like he's
like a fucking roadie basically is what he is? Who
has to you know, work, brother, it's not shooting dude, right,
what is there plans? I don't know about who? You
(02:49:10):
mean shooting dude? Can you imagine an interview for mister
nanny Hollywood press and you've got to deal with this guy?
Oh my god, it would just be it says like
Jimmy Hart, representative for hul Cogan on like his business card,
you know, yep, is this Jimmy Hart. Yeah, maybe he's
in the room with Hulk, but he pretends Hulk. It's
(02:49:31):
like in a different area, you know, yep, yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
he's or yeah exactly. Oh he's not. He's not. He's
in his living room. He's living, you fraud. All right,
he's watching the set. How about that? Wow, he's watching
the TV set. Or he's sitting on the set. Maybe, Yeah,
(02:49:51):
he's on the set, all right? Yeah right.
Speaker 6 (02:49:54):
It all began with promotion for the movies Mister Nanny
and or Is he writes in his book Urban Commando.
Speaker 3 (02:50:01):
Oh he does not. Is that the one with us
instead of Hogan? Wait a minute, though, Urban Suburban Commando
was what are you? What are you talking about? Just
conflating things and lying. He's completely I mean he's talking
about two years of difference. Yeah, years earlier. Suburban Commando
(02:50:21):
was nineteen ninety one, like before he had this working
relationship with Hulk. Hogan. I don't know what he's talking about. Yeah,
I don't know mister Nanny right, Yes, I was with
him all day long, and they were long days. Hogan's
a workaholic. The overseas promotion for Mister Nanny was extensive,
and even on the road would be up at six
in the morning lifting weights. Okay, Hulk was lifting weights.
I was on the treadmill, acting like I was really
(02:50:42):
working out with him. That's funny. I you have to
pretend to work out with Hulk, coy with me. Brother,
I work out, dude, Brother, change no, no, I don't no, no, no, no, no,
I don't do that.
Speaker 9 (02:50:54):
I don't do that. I don't do that. Baby.
Speaker 3 (02:50:56):
Well, brother, yeah you do. So you want my paycheck?
Speaker 8 (02:51:01):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (02:51:02):
Now he's stuck. He knew there was a cat. I
will gladly cancel that check, brother, even if it's already
been depositive. I know the bank. You want to play
getting the jim getting my chism?
Speaker 6 (02:51:17):
I want to play, he says, Oh, and I believe.
He also said I know the bank, like like it,
like he went to high school with the bank. After
a limousine would come by and would really get going.
Interview after an interview, after an interview, all day long.
During all this, Hulk Carricter worked on the script about
(02:51:38):
a next Navy seal and eventually he took the Oh no,
he's just claiming, Oh no, Shadow Warriors.
Speaker 3 (02:51:47):
He's such a liar, that's it. Oh my god, he's
such a fucking phony, and.
Speaker 6 (02:51:52):
He took the project to the people who produced Baywatch. Coincidentally,
there had been a real life Navy seal xt Navy. Wait, no,
this is a Thunder and Paradise. Who made it bigger?
But Hulk didn't write Thunder and Paradise. No, no, worked
on a script. No it was because yeah it was no.
Speaker 9 (02:52:07):
No, no, he did not.
Speaker 3 (02:52:08):
He did not because it wasn't even really done like
the you know, yeah, anyway, go on next Navy. He'll
be a big and wrestling chase wentory, Okay, Hulk and
the producers eventually turned the script then TV serious Thunder
and Paradise and this Hulk promises for Hey, you know what,
why didn't I get offered Thunder and Paradise? Great question.
I am an ex Navy sheet. Yeah, they're exit died
there or they're underwater sealed demolition team. That's right, you know,
(02:52:32):
Hulk Hogan's just a fake. I'm a real. I'm a
real Navy shield. I had a thunder in Paradise.
Speaker 6 (02:52:39):
I'm a real. I'm monetizable on Facebook once again, the
marriage of Rock and Rockland. Hey, I'm verified on social media.
Speaker 3 (02:52:52):
Hey that before you seek to credit me or not
give me my just do Hey, hold on there, you
you making comments you don't even understand.
Speaker 6 (02:53:08):
We've had a lot of discussions about this, and one
thing I am not getting from you is the proper respect.
I'm verified.
Speaker 3 (02:53:21):
Let me ask you something, Michael Cole? Are you verified
on social media? Do you have verification on social media?
Speaker 8 (02:53:33):
Love?
Speaker 3 (02:53:33):
Which media? On which platforms? Well, you're you're here, You're
here bragging to me about your verification. Well do you
have what I have, which is two step verification? Jesse,
that's a different what? No, you only have one I
one step. Let me ask you this question. Are you
(02:53:56):
a verified Navy Shield?
Speaker 9 (02:53:58):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:54:00):
Well then how can you be verified at anything? Wait?
Why did he go through the cage door? Isn't that
a little suspicious? Oh my god, Michael Cole is so
angry during that, He's like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:54:22):
Fan Wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the boys
(02:54:55):
need their candy. It's the lapsed fan. He's an lapsed
(02:55:31):
fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carneo, MJP sorow.
Speaker 3 (02:55:36):
Why is he so right? Why is he so right
all the time? Speaking of which, Jimmy Hart writes, yes,
once again. The marriage of rock and wrestling that I'd
worked so successfully paid dividends. I became Jam and Jimmy
one of the Beach Crowd regulars and appeared in fourteen
of the show's twenty two episodes along with Jim McGuire,
my songwriting partner from Summerset, Kentucky. I was in many
of the beach bar scenes and I had a few
lines here and there. Our characters were musicians and we
(02:55:58):
played regularly at the scuttle but Bar. Our little band
Jim and Jimmy and Tone Deaf was always set up
in the corner and ready to before. Okay, that's great again.
This kind of thing goes a long way and explaining
the kind of person Hulk is. He always gets his
friends involved in what he's doing. British peefkacking, Yeah, he
sure does. Britis peefkick a Pritten four episodes with Under Paradise,
and when you look at the credits from several other episodes,
you'll find the names James, Henry Knightheart and Steve Borden.
(02:56:20):
Wrestling fans recognize him, of course, is Jim the Anvil,
night Hard and stings Terry Funk. I know Terry or
Rick Flair, Good Terry Funk, that's right by watch watch
Jenkinszalez also made in appearance as he did Sting. God.
Speaker 6 (02:56:34):
I wish Sting wasn't afraid of his own shadow and
actually did shoot interviews because I know he disappears. He
fucking disappears, and yes he was hurt, but he disappears.
According to Flair, he did not like the finish of
that class show where he loses the titles to Hulk
and just disappear, loses the titles to Flair, merges them
and disappears. He doesn't show up for Bash at the
(02:56:56):
Beach despite being promoted as appearing on the show the
day of.
Speaker 3 (02:57:00):
He was supposed to face uh.
Speaker 6 (02:57:04):
Steve and then he has an injury so they take
him out, but then they say he's going to accompany
Johnny be Bad as a as A as a cornerman,
and then he doesn't even show up for that.
Speaker 3 (02:57:15):
He was passed when he was was he still abusing
at the time, And I don't.
Speaker 6 (02:57:19):
Know if he had I don't know if he had
had that problem quite yet. Okay, like the alcoholism and
the womanizing and stuff, the stuff that caused him to
become a Jesus guy. Yeah, No, I don't think so.
I don't perceive that he was on that tip yet.
Maybe he was, but I just think he was.
Speaker 3 (02:57:34):
I mean, if I was saying this, if he if
he hasn't, if he hasn't solved it by this point,
then he saw on it. Well he I mean, it's
it's there. It's there anyway. I mean he might not
be at a bad point necessarily, but it's it's for sure.
I imagine it's there.
Speaker 6 (02:57:48):
Yeah, I mean he had a lot to lose when
Hogan came in in terms of his position. He was
just he was never going to be the w StEB
champion again. Ye, this wasn't gonna happen. He was literally
restling for the TV title. What Hogan gets there all
of a sudden, Yeah, you know, and he's pretty much
stays there until they find the crow thing.
Speaker 3 (02:58:05):
Yeah that's true. And yeah he gets the tag tiles
at least. Yeah, sure, but still it's not the same. No,
he's not going to be a top guy. He's not
gonna be the single superstar that he was. And I
don't know, he probably applied, he probably tried to pull
something on that clash that didn't work out and he
just fucking just did the job and disappeared. I think
(02:58:26):
he really got pissed off by all this Hogan stuff.
And I always saw Sting's involvement in Thunder and Paradise
is Hogan with an olive branch, knowing that if Sting
was like actively working against him, that could really hurt
his chances of establishing himself as ww's top dog, just
in little small ways, you know, And he found a
way to ingratiate himself to Sting, no question, you know,
(02:58:47):
to the point that Sting was basically a tag team
partner of his in the beginning. But right, I do
think that.
Speaker 6 (02:58:54):
I do think there's a lot unsaid about Sting's role
and viewpoint in all of this. But he just he's
never been a guy to talk about stuff like that,
and that's so interesting. Yeah, yeah, you won't find anything.
Speaker 3 (02:59:05):
No shoots.
Speaker 6 (02:59:07):
Even WWE when he went to work for them, they
did a documentary. It's nothing, he says nothing. They even
have him sit down and watch an old match and
he says nothing about.
Speaker 3 (02:59:15):
The match, like he right, And the most exciting thing
is he goes in the fucking warehouse there. Yeah, yeah,
because you know and looks at his fucking memorabilia, which
just cool, you know, but that's not what I mean.
I mean, like, let's get let's talk ship, you know,
let's right, yeah about me? Yeah, I was pissed off. Yeah,
but he's you know, born again ship. That doesn't Yeah,
(02:59:36):
I bet that's a lot of it. Yeah, it's it's
you know, you're supposed to forget that kind of stuff
and all you want to do is positive, positive, and
you know, and forgive and all that garbage boring. Fuck
that guy. Get this guy a drink, I'm kidding, and
seriously fucking shove a needle in him and see what
happens like.
Speaker 6 (02:59:55):
That too, Now that you know, in no small part
because of sting, you can't get a good sound bit
out a luger now, yep.
Speaker 3 (03:00:02):
The TV series was.
Speaker 6 (03:00:03):
A lot of fun, but it was also very time consuming.
Jimmy writes, for a thirty second spot, you could shoot
all day. Things are completely different in professional wrestling, where
generally what you see is what you get. The cameras
are on, you're there, one take and that's it. Hulk
always went out of his way to help everybody he
could and lend his name to a worthy cause. No
matter how tired. He was always visiting children's hospitals make
a wish, never turned on anyone. Like I said, working
for Holkman, I was as busy as he was shooting
(03:00:25):
Thunder and Paradise. We developed the discipline schedule. The days
again began early lifting weights. Then we were all on
set all morning. I was there with him all the time,
except when I was filming a scene for the show.
But as soon as I was finished, I was back
by his side when anything important came up, like an
urgent call from his agent, Peter Young or his lawyer
Henry Holmes, who also handles George Foreman and Pamela Anderson. Yes,
you can see Peter Young and Henry Holmes front row
(03:00:47):
at Bash at the beach. Do you see that guy
with that those Hollywood glasses on sitting next to the
guy from Thunder Paris.
Speaker 3 (03:00:57):
That's Henry Holmes looking at Hollywood Attorneys and Peter Young
is to his left. And the reason the whole George Foreman, grill,
whole Cogan and hilarious story thing is because they shared
an agent. And who's the who's the There's another there's
another guy with Linda on the on the other side.
I don't know who that is. I don't, yeah, because
he's another guy with sunglasses. Yeah, Linda is very prominent
(03:01:20):
in the front row. And this year Chris Lemon sitting
right next to Chris Lemon, and you see that, you
see fucking Nick and Brook, Like it was crazy, Like
I really didn't even think they would be there.
Speaker 6 (03:01:31):
Usually family is not sat on the hard camera side
like that, but she's visible the whole night.
Speaker 3 (03:01:36):
Yep, yep, Like after after, after I found them, I
almost couldn't watch anything else that fascinating to see how
they reacted to everything exactly. I mean Chris, Chris Lemon
is bored out of his fuck, so he's so humiliated.
The smartest thing he could possibly do was where sunglasses
in the buildings so he didn't have to see ship,
(03:01:58):
that's right, and so people didn't have to see his eye.
He could he could fall asleep in his chair and
nobody would know and hide his disdain, right yep. I
mean he just like there's no there is not an
ounce of excitement in that in him and it's kind
of I mean, yeah, like he just looks absolutely miserable.
Speaker 6 (03:02:16):
They'd called the discussed movie scripts, appearances and other business,
and I'd pass information on a Hulk or provide them
with the details. And when they weren't on the phone,
I was checking in regularly to see if they needed
anything from Hulk. Seven days a week, I was always
on call. My hotel room was next to his, my
airline seat, my place in the limo. It was my
job to be there wherever I was needed. I also
helped Hulk find his way in a new venture music.
We worked out or deal with Select Records, and it
(03:02:37):
brought in some big money.
Speaker 9 (03:02:38):
No it didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:02:39):
So both on TV and in real life, I was
back in music, only this time I was working with
Hulk Hogan instead of the Gentries. Thunder and Paradise was
a great vehicle for me. Jim McGuire and I wrote
eleven or twelve songs that were used in the fuck
Up Beach and bar scenes on top. But that was
a great vehicle. Fuck you, It was a great vehicle
for no to vehicle. No one, no one fucking benefited
(03:03:03):
from that fucking thing.
Speaker 3 (03:03:04):
They were just so. You wrote. You wrote music and
songs that nobody fucking heard. So explain to me how
that's a good view. I bet he didn't even write
Thunder in Paris. I bet nothing. The co chairman think, twill,
that's what thunder? Remember that? Yes, that's the best part.
(03:03:33):
Oh oh, like one of the sucking uh fucking monks there,
what do you call it? Gregorian chant there? Jesus Christ. Oh,
I'll tell you, if he keeps going this way towards
(03:03:55):
w W is going to be a Georgian chant. That's
for damn sure. By uh yeah, that's just man. We
did Thunder Paradise because of the Hopper, right for for Brandon. Yeah,
we did Thunder Paradise before we ever even had under
the cinemat. Absolutely, it was years before It's wild. It
was that was that was the first. That was the
(03:04:15):
first Hopper thing. Wasn't the very first time, not the
very first one, but it was that first. It was
within that first session.
Speaker 6 (03:04:22):
I see, yeah or yeah, yeah, that was probably rather
than Hopper, it was probably the Patreon listener request series.
Speaker 3 (03:04:29):
It might have been that you got your pick. That's
when we realized we had a fucking problem on our hands. Yeah, yep,
because people needed it. We had actually on tap. On
top of that, we also wrote the closing theme. We
had actually written Thunder and Paradise to be the opening song,
not knowing that the producers had gotten their own people
to write something to begin the show. Still, our tune
(03:04:49):
was used for the end credits. All right, look lolick
all right, the fucking idiot guy that that follows hold
on and he'd written a song? Can we find a
place to put it? I mean, I just want to
shut this guy up? Can we? Can we? Just because
he is so fucking annoying? Has anyone seen do you
know you can tell me? Can someone tell me what
he fucking hides in that hair? Do you know I
have to go through him to ask Colke what he
wants for lunch? Do you know that I have? Like listen,
(03:05:12):
all right, I don't want to talk to him. I
don't want to deal with him. All right, Have someone
else do it because I cannot. I cannot with that man?
Speaker 1 (03:05:21):
Like?
Speaker 3 (03:05:22):
Is he a man?
Speaker 8 (03:05:22):
Like?
Speaker 14 (03:05:23):
What is he?
Speaker 9 (03:05:23):
What does he do with?
Speaker 3 (03:05:25):
Is he a man? Speakure Jimmy Art's face? Is he
a man? It's a great question. I mean he looks
like alf all right, that piece of ship alf ol, Yeah,
he does. I love how you pointed out how elevated.
Speaker 16 (03:05:43):
His hair is.
Speaker 3 (03:05:46):
So problem up there, man, it's I mean all because
all if you know it, really, I never really thought
about it until he was at that what was it
saturny nice main event that we saw recently, and it's
just like I was like, oh my god, because you
could see through it, and I was like, that's a problem.
That's a fucking problem. He hasn't aged. Man, Yeah, okay,
(03:06:10):
that's that's supposed to be cool. Like no, no, it's
incredibly disturbing. That's a problem. Okay, that's that's what that is.
If he hasn't aged, that's a problem he gets. He
gets in full gimmick every day of his life, every
fucking day. He can't go anywhere without sunglass.
Speaker 6 (03:06:28):
He would be a mess if his hair wasn't dyed
jet black on a given day.
Speaker 3 (03:06:31):
I really want to see what he's like in the morning,
My god, you know what happened when he wakes up
in the morning. He wouldn't let his soul see him
until he never never like what does he look like
in the morning, Like what does that hair do? He
gets up in the morning, he does that hair, he
puts it let and he puts one of those jackets
on and then he leaves the house. Yes, yes, yes,
(03:06:52):
you know. Just imagine seeing him walking down your fucking neighborhood.
What are you? Why are you walking around with? What
are you? What are you? Why are you wearing a
fucking jacket that looks like a keyboard? Okay, a happy
meal toy? You're a fucking clown. You're supposed to be
a rock Crown rock and roll promoter. Like, what do
(03:07:13):
you like? Yeah?
Speaker 15 (03:07:14):
What are you?
Speaker 3 (03:07:14):
Yeah? What what's this outfit? What exactly what is this outfit?
And why do you have twenty of them who said
you were okay? Who gave you permission to.
Speaker 9 (03:07:30):
Be like this?
Speaker 3 (03:07:31):
My god, that's what I That's what I would ask Jimmy.
I want to really break it down, and you're not
being true to yourself. You're being false to yourself. Do
you ever get sick of being a gimmick Jimmy, Oh,
that's a good question for him. Do you ever get
sick of being a fake? You ever wish just one
thing you could do in your life is actually real
(03:07:54):
instead of a fucking hustle to get money, put more
pocket change for Jimmy Hart fucking fucking thunder Imparadise was
a vehicle. Shut the fuck up, asshole, Like you said,
the show's a vehicle for no one. Yeah, exactly. Sorry.
(03:08:15):
I don't know why we have to be, why we
have to point right, they just keep everyone talks about
it like stop, like I know, like it's this thing
that's like, okay, listen, I have no doubt people got paid.
You know, there's a budget. People got paid, but this
elevated nothing for nobody. Okay, not one person. It like
(03:08:36):
went on, it's a bloody.
Speaker 9 (03:08:39):
It was right.
Speaker 3 (03:08:40):
I mean, it's watch, it is by Watch, it is
bay Watch. It's very bay Watch esque, you know, and
and but it's also you know, you don't have you
didn't really have the the the women. You know, that's
what made bay Watch great. That's why I could fucking
watch bay Watch every Saturday morning. Because what was the
(03:09:00):
name of the woman in Paradise? Ah, I can't think
of her fucking name. She's like, she's like a she's
like a pseudo somebody. I was gonna say, she's not like,
you know, she doesn't she doesn't really matter, right, she
kind of does. Carol Alt right, Carol alt Oh my god, Yeah,
(03:09:25):
she's in uh she's in uh, private parts. Oh, that's right,
he's in private parts. She plays the you know, he's uh,
he's on the plane with talking and telling the woman
the story. And that's her. So is this show Carrol Alt?
Was the show a vehicle for Carrol Alt?
Speaker 8 (03:09:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:09:43):
No, it was not all right. She already had a
thing like she was kind of nice. Yeah, I remember
that from the cinemat treatment that she actually was more
established than I realized. Yeah, she was probably the bigger
out of out of all of them, she was kind
of the bigger star, was she. She's a model too,
That's that's where she kind of it got her claim
to fame. She was a model like in the eighties,
(03:10:04):
and that's where she that's that's that's why she's she
was way more in a different level. If anything, Thunder
and Paradise brought her down, that's correct, you know, brought
her down to zero.
Speaker 6 (03:10:16):
Meaning when the producers of the show led to a
guest shot on Baywatch, I played Ricky Van Shelton's country
music manager. Things went so well that they called me
back for an episode called Bash at the Beach, which
of course had a wrestling theme. Then the musical work
out of a thunder Paradise prompted the producers to ask
for a song for still another bay Watch episode.
Speaker 3 (03:10:34):
Can I can I tell you this? Okay? So now
he is conflating two major like, oh yeah, ba's the
Beach happened ninety five. Thunder and Paradise was done way
before that Bash of the Beach episode of Baywatch happened
in ninety five, because it coincided with Yeah, that's right,
(03:10:54):
you're talking about Oh my god, Yeah, that can't be
what he's talking about. That's what he's talking about, oh
my And I mean because Thunder and Paradise was done
in November of ninety four.
Speaker 6 (03:11:06):
Can you imagine this is in print? Imagine how many
more liberties he takes to talking to someone on a
party that doesn't care to actually verify anything he's saying.
Speaker 3 (03:11:14):
Right, right, I mean, I mean, I suppose it's possible
that you know, he may have filmed Bash at the
Beach the show, like you know, in March or something,
but still like that doesn't give enough time that listen, nobody,
(03:11:36):
nobody thought anything of that fucking music. Okay, so stop it.
Do you know one of my songs kind of became
the theme music for the character called the Pelican Man.
All Can I tour the world together and became involved
in numerous different projects for two years. We were inseparable.
Along the way, we came to another understanding if we
ever got back into wrestling, we'd do that together too,
(03:11:56):
And that's just what happened. Thunder and Paradise was shot
at the Disney Studios and Lando, or at the time
World Championshipressling Ted Turner's organization. Wait wait, wait, I was wrong. Oh,
Bash at the Beach did not happen in ninety five.
It happened in ninety six. Fucking fucking idiot. So like
(03:12:22):
nowhere near Thunder and Paradise, it's all the same. Knock
it off. No, no, it's not. Actually it's it's it's
a fabrication.
Speaker 6 (03:12:31):
While we were shooting, Eric Bischoff would come to run
WW arranged to meet with Seric said, look, if you
guys ever decided to get back into wrestling, I'd love
to see it happened in a wcw ring. Ted Turner's
promotion was the new kid on the block, the upstart,
challenging vincig Man's model.
Speaker 3 (03:12:44):
Hold On, hold On, So now he's saying that Thunder
and Paradise happened, and the Baywatch thing that happened in
ninety six happened before Hulk went to WCW. Oh yeah,
kind of, yeah, yeah, okay, just checking, just making shirt
because you know what, Listen, I I am fully on
(03:13:05):
board with believing what Jimmy Hart says over what numbers say,
because I I don't.
Speaker 6 (03:13:10):
Think he's saying that Baywatch happened right at the same time.
All he says is that he met the producers of
maybe the producers of Thunder and Paradise led to a
guest shot on Baywatch. He didn't say when he didn't
try to say it happened at the same time. Yeah,
I mean that's still like it implies, It implies, it
implies just bunching it all together. Ted Turner's promotion was
(03:13:34):
a new kid on the block, not really. And although
Turner WW it only technically existed for oh my god, well,
Turner's WCW had only technically existed for three years. He says,
So what Cogan wrestled last year, is that why he
was on a hiatus because he wasn't around for WW
for the first three years.
Speaker 3 (03:13:54):
It's talking about when they switched the letters of the unbelievable,
because he does go.
Speaker 6 (03:13:59):
On to say the roots the organization would become the
driving force behind the great man Wars of the mid
to late nineties. Stretch back in time to the glory
days of the National Wrestling Alliance. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Buddy Rodgers reference to timut reference, but McMahon senior reference,
We're run Wrestling Federation reference, the WWF ands ignored territories
nineteen eighty two, blah blah blah. In ninety one, Turner
(03:14:19):
decided to get into wrestling.
Speaker 3 (03:14:20):
No, he didn't.
Speaker 6 (03:14:20):
I was in nineteen eighty eight, and he'd been in
wrestling since nineteen seventy two if you look at it
a certain way. Leric Bischoff okay, had been.
Speaker 3 (03:14:32):
Yeah. Eric Bischoff had been a commentator with Vern Gunnes,
his Minneapolis based ABA, and he brought it down to
work for w W long with Damon Dallas Page. Eric
had a knack for being in the right place at
the right time, and when Turner decided to make a
change in the front office of his wrestling business to
really put a run at Vince, make a run at
vance bischoffice put in charge. We hell can I met
with America had just taken over. He was just beginning
to get his mind around taking a regional Southern operation
(03:14:54):
to the national stage. I mean, what is it by
what going on channels? She's already on the revisionist history
is so fucking bizarre to me, you know, kind of
like did they know that they this is what again?
(03:15:15):
You're they don't understand that that that only wrestling fans
who know all the fucking truth are going to read
this ship like no, no stranger is going to read
this and buy your bullshit. No one's gonna buy you.
That's right, right, and even attitude on bay Watch once
(03:15:37):
what what my mom? I'll be read that one. Oh
that's right, let it pour out. There's the here's the
(03:15:58):
HBO piece, Okay. Eric dreamed a challenge in New York,
immediately believing he would compete on the national stage if
he could make one big, decisive, ministry shaking move. Ian
Rick Flair, who was also part of ww's brain trust,
decided that move was to sign Hulk Hogan. Hulk had
been approached by HBO with an offer of two million
dollars to start his own company for two pay per
view telecasts, but Eric put a deal on the table
(03:16:19):
that convinced him to come to WCW. Obviously it was
the kind of offer Hulk couldn't refuse, and that was it.
Hulk was going back to wrestling, and so was the
Mouth of the South. Okay, So that is the story
of how Jimmy Hart went from WWF hill manager to
Hulk Hogan's manager, to Hulk Hogan's actual real life manager,
(03:16:40):
to transitioning out of WWF with him through Mister Nanny
and all the other things he did th Under Paradise
into the front door of World Championship Wrestling an all
over our television screen during Bash of the Beach nineteen
ninety four, also in this transition, but being left behind
at least for a little while much a man. Randy Savage,
(03:17:01):
Hulkogan's former brother of arms over there. You heard him
on commentary at the Fateful King of the Ring nineteen
ninety three pay per view, What the hell happened? Fucking great?
Such a great line. He's great. I know what they
will happened. It's like he's running in on like a
murder scene, you know, I know exactly or like or
(03:17:24):
or he's coming home and his kids have like fucking
thrown paint all over the place, or.
Speaker 6 (03:17:29):
His house has been robbed by the wet bandits.
Speaker 3 (03:17:35):
Wet banded so opened dah.
Speaker 4 (03:17:42):
So.
Speaker 6 (03:17:43):
Now that Hogan's out there putting behind him and being
kind of a less than flattering in his public commentary
about the place, they they're going to deploy Randy Savage,
and Randy's going to take to the airwaves of their
own a newfangled radio show in Networks Radio WWF. This
is a famous deal. Jim Ross would host it for
a short period of time. Johnny Polo was kind of
(03:18:05):
like a co host. And shortly after hul Cogan leaves WWF,
and it becomes very clear that he's going to make
a move in wrestling elsewhere BA Japan or this HBO
venture or WCW. The offensive begins right. WWF then begins
in all points assault on the idea that Hull Cogin
has any shelf life anymore, that Hull Cogan means anything anymore,
that Hull Cogan is worth a shit anymore. And here
(03:18:28):
is a transcript that survives. I sent it to you,
boss via email. Oh boy of Randy Savage appearing on
RADIOWWF after hul Coogin's WWF departure. This was an interview
he did just you know, as an in studio guest
on this new idea of a radio program. But there
is some shooting going on here as it regards Hull Cogan.
And while audio of the WWF radio show barely exists,
(03:18:51):
Jim Ross kept a few copies that the atfree shows
guys have but this doesn't exist in naudtio form anywhere
I've seen. But fortunately someone got their hands on the
tape years ago and put it in a rustling newsletter.
I think it's called the Wrestling Digest or a Wrestling
Flyer Wow, one of the lesser known newsletters. But this
is the full transcript. So we're gonna get an idea
of how guys back in the Tower and Stanford are
(03:19:12):
strategizing around the fact that Hulk Cogan is now moving
on to different pastures. Savage starts, I'll do Johnny Polo
and Jim Ross as well. So this is the first
time we've ever done this for the listeners.
Speaker 3 (03:19:26):
Yeah, I think so under the shooter work you make
the call section here right, Well, that's uh, that's amazing
how the newsletter decided to frame him. Hmm, Old Cogan,
Let's just see that I lost a lot of respect
for whole covid Ak theory Bulea, you know, and that's
his real name, with him as a man and as
(03:19:49):
a human being. But that's an extreme understatement that I'm
saying right here. I lost a lot of definite respect
for him.
Speaker 6 (03:19:56):
Well, how did you lose this respect? This is fascinating
a scoop from my own show.
Speaker 3 (03:20:00):
Oh this is great. Well, you know it's not your show, brother.
A lot of people out there might be thinking it's
professional jealousy. But now putting professional jealousy aside, if there
is any which I'm not saying there is, or right,
did you check that out right there when I said
(03:20:20):
that I lost a whole lot of respect big time.
Number one when he completely lied on Arsenio Hall denying
the use of anabolic steroids except for rehabilitation for an injury.
Have you ever used steroids, Randy?
Speaker 9 (03:20:37):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 3 (03:20:38):
I used anabolic steroids in him when I was so
when I was on Arsenia Hall, I told the people
I did when they were legal. But it's like putting
poison in their bodies. Do you use them now? No,
I sure don't, and nobody does in the WWE. But
(03:20:59):
at the same time, when I was asked about it
and I told him the truth, it was prevalent at
the time, not just in wrestling, but all sports, baseball, basketball, football,
you name it. It was there. It was in the gym,
it was all over the place. It was legal at
the time. But at the same times, yeah, oh yeah.
(03:21:25):
If Oko is the guy, is the guy that says
he is, if he's leading those who comaniacs down the
tunnel where there's a light at the tunnel and he's
showing them the way. Hey, listen, brother, the children are
out or our future. And if you want a lot
of them, you're lying to me. If you're lying to me,
you're lying to everybody, brother, Because that's just like the
(03:21:48):
way it's happened. I remember being in the car with
him the day before we went onto our Sineo Hall
in Saint Louis, Missouri, and I begged him for three
hours not to do that. You know, he was gonna
go on and lie exactly. I knew when he was
gonna do it, and I knew that I was gonna
lie about using anabolic steroids. And I knew that he
(03:22:13):
was gonna lie about using anabolic steroids. And I told
him that he could be a leader among men if
he would tell the truth. But he was worried about
the image of the character of Oulk Coogan aka Terry Blaya.
And I said, brother, Listen, I said, we all make mistakes, bey, honest,
you know the world is more is more forgiving than
(03:22:34):
you think. Steroids were legal then, But he said, not
a chance. He went on Sydney Hall and he lied,
and he lied big time. He hurt himself. I'm not
worried about him hurting himself, but he heard all though
the World Wrestling Entertainment because, like I said before, he
was a leader. He's a big He was a big
(03:22:54):
time five time World Wrestling Entertainment champion and when he
talks people, Listen said, he was the biggest star ever
in the WWF. Yeah, when he went on her studio,
whole line and then everything came down. After that, he
realized that he hurt himself, that he cared about that.
But I'll guarantee you from heart to heart right now,
(03:23:16):
Johnny Polo, be quiet. I guarantee you. I guarantee you
he would care less about hurting any of us at
the WWE, the World Wrestling Entertainment. Would you say he's selfish?
Selfish's to the oteenth degree. Brother, And I'm not perfect,
no doubt about it. But this guy is really not
(03:23:37):
even perfect, though he would want you to believe it.
This is amazing.
Speaker 6 (03:23:40):
By the way, that our senior Hall appearance was three
years ago. They're talking about it like he just recently betrayed.
Speaker 3 (03:23:46):
He just it.
Speaker 6 (03:23:46):
They're dredging all that up again because he's leaving. You know,
it's two years ago actually, but by the time he
goes to WW it's three years old, and there is
This is their attack mode of attack. One thing's for sure.
As the folks that listen and watch the one wrestling
Federation that followed your career, at one time you and
your former wife Elizabeth probably the most marketable entity in
the World Wrestling Federation. You were synonymous, and I'm saying
(03:24:07):
that respectfully. However, you and her have amicably styn her line.
I don't know if it's amicably. You're divorced. I've been divorced, okay, Jim,
I'm not saying it's a sin. But the issue is
that is this thing? Is this part of the situation.
I'm asking a personal question.
Speaker 3 (03:24:25):
It's all right, radio w W that's what it's all about, right,
Hits you between the eyes, put you into the microscope.
If you survive, you survive. It's the nineties, that's what
I hear, buddy, isn't that right? Yeah, we don't pull
no punches. That's enough. That's enough, right, There is not
something Jim Rod. He asked me a question. I give
(03:24:46):
you an answer.
Speaker 9 (03:24:49):
No, you won't.
Speaker 3 (03:24:50):
Apparently I asked the question about nineties six. I got work.
I'm sorry, go ahead. I got a a kurd play
hard attitude right now, the wild and crazy, just like
I was. I was getting started at the very beginning.
But there was a time I fell in love, I
got engaged and got married and it was to Elizabeth.
(03:25:14):
Then they got a point that maybe some of the
kids out there can relate to. Maybe it happened to
their mother and father, maybe their uncle or aunt or
whatever it is. But sometimes it just doesn't go forever,
like they say at the altar, and Elizabeth and I
we were married, but we were having problems and at
that time, Elizabeth and Hulk Coogan's wife were very, very
(03:25:35):
very best friends, and they were running around together. I
didn't think it was healthy for our relationship. But whatever
is whatever, you know what I mean, a lot of
people have a different kind of friends. But there was
a time when I was wrestling on the road. Well
we were having problems, and I would and would call
home and Liz wouldn't be there, and during a certain
(03:25:57):
segment of time, I would just get another phone call,
you know, being the being at no I have been
stopped in my tracks.
Speaker 1 (03:26:16):
The Lapsed Fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows
(03:26:50):
the boys need their candy.
Speaker 2 (03:26:52):
It's the Lapsed Fan.
Speaker 1 (03:27:25):
He's a Lapsed Fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnacio
and JP Sorrow.
Speaker 3 (03:27:36):
Being the Minister of the Phone that I is, it
says that, and I swear to you, I have never
read this before.
Speaker 6 (03:27:47):
The Master of the Phone. That ship we just cooked
up off the top of our heads. One time because
he was calling Dick Eversol for the overnight.
Speaker 3 (03:28:01):
He said that being the master of the phone, I
am mean, what does that mean? It means the phone?
Those would I say? I say phone and move, lift
and right It does exactly what I do, exactly what
to do. That's good. And I would have several conversations
(03:28:24):
with Hulk Copan and he would give you swerve. He
would give me swerves and curls, but never tell me
what Liz was though. Tell me that Liz was over
giving me swerves and curves. That's there, swerves and curves. Yeah,
he always giving me swerves and cruise. Yeah, but I'm
never telling me that Liz was over there. Wait wait, yea,
(03:28:47):
so this is going on and Hogan was lying to
you will the on That's when I filmed The Leader.
Speaker 16 (03:28:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:28:54):
Yeah, but you're a liar too, so it really doesn't matter.
This is a serious matter. I'm she was either out
with his wife Linda or hiding out right hiding out
right over there at their house, you know what I mean?
Just whatever's whatever? Oh yeah, good point, exactly, It doesn't.
I couldn't agree more. And later on, when I was
(03:29:15):
wrestling on the road, basically when I would call home
and there was no answer for four days and Elizabeth
was emily missing in action for four days. You know,
I was worried about my wife then, and still I am. Mad.
Guy's nuts, He's insane. Yes, he's insane, master of the phone,
(03:29:38):
but he can't get her on the phone, get her
on the phone. He's worried about his wife, then she stay,
he's worried about her now after they're divorced. MM, but
I still am now if you know what I mean,
can't hope that is my heart. I'll always love her,
but it's very hard to let go. But you gotta
let go. And that's for those people out there that
(03:30:00):
situations like him. But no doubt about it, being honest.
Four days went by and Liz finally called me and
told me to get a lawyer because she wanted a divorce.
You know, that was like the end of the story
right there.
Speaker 6 (03:30:14):
Do you think Hogan knew about your divorce? Did he
know what was going on?
Speaker 3 (03:30:18):
Obviously?
Speaker 9 (03:30:19):
What it is?
Speaker 3 (03:30:20):
What it is, you know what I mean? Like Hogan
and his wife were in Miami making that movie that
bomb Mister Nanny, which one that bombed? He was a
three time lose. Oh shit started out with No Holes
Bar that did ten million dollars, and then the Suburban
Commando did less, and then he broke his own record
(03:30:41):
for doing less with that. You know what I mean?
Mister Nanny. Not to say there's anything personal right here.
It's kind of like the crush Whole Cogan type situation.
But anyway, I made numerous calls Whole Cogan. I was
going completely out of my mind. I didn't know where
she was and couldn't even talk to her about it
(03:31:02):
because you wanted a lawyer and all. But he gave me.
They gave me swords and curves again, and I said
he didn't know where I didn't know like where she was.
But but brother, if I heard anything, I would let
you know. But in desperation, I frud to Miami at
the Jockey Club, where Hogan was staying and where they
(03:31:26):
were filming the movie mister Nanny. But then I found
Liz shocking. Yeah, and obviously by this time only half shocked.
He dig at Johnny Polo, just shut up.
Speaker 6 (03:31:37):
I understand that's a gut wrenching deal. Pal and Tarsha
guts out. I mean, anybody can relate to relationships. We
get into so much gaga and wrestling about this guy's
face paint, this guy's music, and this guy's ring jacket,
this guy's finish hold, what the fuck this guy left
the w CW and this guy left the WWF. Sometimes
it comes down to human beings and it rips your
guts out when real things happen to people.
Speaker 3 (03:31:57):
You're right about that, You're ross honestly friendship between the
Hull Cogan aka Terry Bulla and the macho man Randy
Savage aka Randy Puff Brother. I'm right out there in
front of you, you know what I mean, Hit me
with your best shot, and the honesty in friendship wasn't there,
Jim Ross, and possibly never was. And right now talking
(03:32:19):
to Radio WWE, I will tell you that it was
never there. I was fooled and I just didn't know it.
And Liz didn't know it either. You know, she thought
she had a best friend with Hulk Cogan's wife. But
now we both know what separately, of course, because we
are legally divorced. Can you believe the fact that Hulk Cogan,
Holk Cogan's wife and Liz don't talk now, So what
(03:32:41):
kind of friends do you think they are? They don't
even talk now, No, they don't talk now. See it's
almost like they got the job done. You know, this
is the worst case scenario. Broke us up, did whatever
they had to do with they were true friends. It
doesn't matter what they were doing before or after whatever
to talk. But it's a situation where they're not even
friends now. So I think Louis realizes a lot because
(03:33:05):
but because time goes by and I wish the best
for her. So I think Louis realizes a lot because
time goes by and I wish the best for her.
What it's a great life, but a lot's changed and
trust is broken, just like with me and Crush on
Monday Night Show. Brother, Welcome to Monday Night Show, Amir
(03:33:30):
or a murdy brother, you know what I mean. I've
changed a lot. I've changed a lot in my lifetime.
Speaker 6 (03:33:36):
Andy, Is it time to go back to the old days,
to lexing Kentucky days, to day's of Angelo Pafo teaching
his boys how to defend themselves? Is it time to
go back to what brought you to the dance?
Speaker 3 (03:33:45):
You can't forget your roots, Jim Ross brother, and a
lot of people are gonna like me, or a lot
of people are not gonna like me because of it,
But that's just the way it is. If Hogan didn't
like what I said over the year waves, if you
want to do that in front of the w w
WA and arena in nearby, or if you wanted to
do it in the garage of his choice, that would
be cool for the machio man Randy Savage brother because
(03:34:07):
you come beat me, but you can't eat me. But
I don't think that you will beat me. Imagine in
nineteen ninety four, that is just tremendous. Sounds to me
like this is going somewhere. So yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 (03:34:26):
So things are in motion, and Hogan's on set for
Thunder and Paradise, wtw's on set for worldwide tapings, and
at a certain point the discussions happened. The discussions, in
large part were sparked or not sparked, but supported by
the fact that Eric Bischoff had gone to his boss,
(03:34:47):
the guy who had selected him to be executive producer
in the sweepstakes of who would replace the ousted Bill Watts,
Bill Shaw and Bill Shaw at Ted Turner's ear and
found out that Ted Turner would be extremely supportive Bischoff
doing what it took to sign Hulk Cogan to a
World Championship wrestling and knew that he'd have the financial
support to do it. We turned to Bischoff's book.
Speaker 3 (03:35:09):
He says I was in bed.
Speaker 6 (03:35:12):
Bischoff writes, when the phone rang, it was late, maybe midnight,
but I reached over picked it up. My little brother,
I understand you'd like to talk to me. The fatigue
I had felt just a moment before vanished. Hulk Cogan
had a very distinctive voice, and I sure did want
to talk to him. Coincidentally, the Disney tapings brought us
into contact with Hulk Cogan. He was taping a television
show at the Disney MGM studios called Thunder and Paradise.
(03:35:33):
I don't know how I got his phone number? You
do from Rick Flair?
Speaker 3 (03:35:37):
Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 6 (03:35:38):
I don't recall, which means he recalls usually whether I
could have put a call into him or someone else
passed his or my number along. Why did you even
put that in the book If you don't remember, all
that makes me do is think that you try tomorrow
is sent off the trail exactly. Legend has it that
Rick Flair made the first contact. I'd be inclined to
believe it anyway.
Speaker 3 (03:35:58):
Okay, what a fucking idiot.
Speaker 6 (03:36:00):
Now he doesn't qualify that at all, But that's what
I love about his book is and he'll blame the
co author, I'm sure, but it's such a check on,
like the narratives he has now that he has a podcast,
you know, and he's told the same story like six times,
and it'll they only agree four times, you know. Like
the Facts before Bashing the Beach two thousand, that's my
favorite one. He goes from saying I told Hulk to
(03:36:22):
send the facts, exercising the clause to I don't even
know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (03:36:27):
There was no fact. I don't know thinking about facts.
Speaker 6 (03:36:31):
Anyway, as soon as I picked the phone up that night,
I knew who it was. I explained to him that
we were shooting our shows down at Disney MGM and
invited him to come on over, and I add that
I would love to have him come over to WCW.
He didn't jump at the hint, but he didn't hang
up on me either. We turned out of Rick Flair's
book the morning after I defeated Vader. This is at
Starkad nineteen ninety three, and we read from this when
we did super Brawl in ninety four and Springs Stampede
(03:36:53):
as well. I believe sure, and it belongs here as well.
My phone rang. It was whole Coogan. He was busy
taking his kid too, but he had one thing to
tell me. You bade me cry last night, you old bastard.
Help Coogan sitting at home Boss watching Star K ninety
three Flair and cry.
Speaker 3 (03:37:08):
Why why Nate, Dude? Why? Brother? I'm just I'm sitting there, dude,
wondering whoa dude?
Speaker 9 (03:37:14):
You know what you did?
Speaker 8 (03:37:15):
Dude?
Speaker 3 (03:37:15):
You also roll from behind?
Speaker 9 (03:37:16):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (03:37:16):
Right, I'll tell you what I'm not thinking of that, dude,
how about Hulk putting in that call? Seven ninety three?
The next time I saw Eric Bischoff flair Wright, so
I told him about the conversation. You get along with Hogan?
He asked, yeah, I get along with him very well.
You think you consider coming here? I don't know. I'll
talk to him. So I called Ogan and I started,
(03:37:39):
what a great conversation to put in your butt? I
don't know, I'll call you don't want whatever?
Speaker 6 (03:37:44):
That's flair? That's flair, I know. So I called Ougan
and started to sell Eric to him. This guy's got
a vision, I said, he's got some good ideas, and
they have the money here to make things happen. Hogan
was busy making a TV show called Thunder and Paradise.
I don't know, brother, he answered every single time they
named this.
Speaker 3 (03:38:00):
Oh my god. I honestly, it's kind of sick of it. Really.
It really is like he was filming a show called
Thunder and Paradise. Oh my god, like ship, I know,
especially after doing all this prep, it's like, oh my god,
if I hear that fucking show one more time, wait
till we do all the interviews with Gena on set
(03:38:20):
here Thundering. It's it's so it's so thirsty.
Speaker 6 (03:38:26):
It's so like they're so proud of the you know,
proud of himself that he actually is on a set
of a TV show that he can't stop like letting
you know that he's.
Speaker 3 (03:38:33):
Doing a real TV show. Guys. Exactly, it's it's it's
it's not exactly fat dude, I won't say. Do you
know what I like? I appreciate the idea of maybe
coming to w C w D. But you know what, brother,
I got I got this big TV show going on
right now, dude, syndication man. You know, you know we've
got things going on, brother, you know, working with you know,
we've got Jack Lemon's son, Chris Lemone's my co star. Dude.
(03:38:55):
You know we're talking big stars, Carol Alt brother, you
know we're you know, this is the real field, dizziel
if you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (03:39:01):
Dude, was control Carol, control all deleite. That'd because it's
not so, I'll talk to him. So I called Hogan
started sell Eric to him. Scout's got a vision, He's
got some good ideas, and they get the money to
make things happen. Hogan was Okay, I don't know, brother,
he answered, I'm kind of doing this other thing. Well,
why don't you just talk to him? Eric and I
begin a campaign to lower Hogan and WCW. Yeah, and
(03:39:22):
you mentioned the PWI article Rick where you're gonna do
a total then run around. Ww uh. We'll do this together.
Eric said, My goal was to get bishoff in front
of the Hulkster. The two of us flew to Orlando
and drove to the Thunder and Paradise set. We sat
in the trailer for three and a half hours before
Hogan had time to talk to us. That's that's so
Hulk Hogan like, yeah, I've got to prove that you
(03:39:43):
really want to talk to him, you know, or he'll
call you at one in the morning just to see
like if.
Speaker 3 (03:39:47):
He can make you if you don't, like, yeah, if
you're willing to have a conversation with him at fucking
two in the morning, if he could make you give
up your sleep exactly yep, not not to say, you know, like, uh,
let's talk in the morning, okay, and you talk.
Speaker 6 (03:40:00):
Him right then imagine him like sitting watching the phone
at like ten thirty till one am that night he
called Bishop for the first time, just waiting for the
time to click so that he can have a leverage
when he calls.
Speaker 3 (03:40:12):
Just imagine him on fucking Willadella, Willadelia, Willadell, you know,
and and Linda's asleep, the kids are asleep, and he's
just like watching TV. Oh my god, you know, he's
sitting up in bed watching TV, like just counting the minutes.
And then then then it's time. It takes the phone, broller. Oh.
Speaker 6 (03:40:40):
The two of us flew to Orlando, drove thunder Paradise,
sat sat in the trailer three and a half hours
before Hogan had time to talk with us. Then we
came back the next week and the week's after and
the week after that, pretty soon he was ready to
make a deal. And make a deal they did. And
here's Flair recalling some of the some of the hoops
they had to jump through, not only to get Hogan
(03:41:00):
to agree to come in, but to have him feel,
you know, I guess to some degree comfortable about the
whole thing and what they had to do to uh,
to get him. To make it sound like the w
W fans were happy he was coming.
Speaker 3 (03:41:17):
No, it's because they just wouldn't.
Speaker 9 (03:41:18):
They wouldn't.
Speaker 7 (03:41:19):
We usually I put some bites in. He he won't
be upset that I'm saying this. We had to put
sound bites in and uh, it's center stage because they
bowed him out.
Speaker 3 (03:41:32):
Oh, the local fans. They weren't hulkging people.
Speaker 13 (03:41:35):
No, no, no.
Speaker 3 (03:41:36):
But the first time we really got him to boo
me and it worked and it's great.
Speaker 7 (03:41:41):
And I didn't know that that pay review was what
launched the Nitro since then, Hulk told me, because Eric
would never tell me that or pay me rightfully.
Speaker 9 (03:41:50):
Was the match we had in Orlando with Shaq and
Me and.
Speaker 7 (03:41:53):
Sherry against him and Jimmy, and I do think we
had a good.
Speaker 3 (03:41:57):
Match that day.
Speaker 7 (03:41:58):
It was entertaining. It never going to be you know,
like a technical not going to be me and Steamboat
or Seth and Manny or whatever. I mean, not nearly
a technical. What we had great chemistry. Sherry added so
much to it, and that pay per view is what
launched Naitral.
Speaker 14 (03:42:17):
Yeah did you know that? Yep, you've told me that
here on the show before. Yeah, and I didn't know
what the Hogan told me. It's crazy, but he was,
but that in that instance he was. That was the
first time that he was a real legitimate bayface and
that was the heal. But it took us a while
to get there.
Speaker 6 (03:42:37):
And he was the only guy that could get Hogan
to that comfort level. I mean, he's going to come
into a company where they have to sweeten the sound
to make it sound like people are excited for him
to be there. It's not the kind of ego stroking
that hul Cogan is looking for in nineteen ninety four,
that's for damn sure, especially not at all after all
the at all boasting about this huge next chapter of
his career that he was about to enter after.
Speaker 3 (03:42:57):
Leaving the WWF. But yeah, they did.
Speaker 6 (03:42:59):
I mean people were kind of I don't say indifferent,
but they weren't. They weren't outwardly enthusiastic.
Speaker 3 (03:43:06):
Yet I remember that. I do remember that. It's what
it was one of those concerning moments for me as
a fan. What was concerning, like why aren't you cheering
for ho covid right? Like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 11 (03:43:16):
Like?
Speaker 3 (03:43:16):
What's wrong with me? If I'm excited in you?
Speaker 12 (03:43:19):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:43:19):
No, no, no, not what's wrong with me? Never? What's
wrong with me? The same thing with with with the
guys cheering sid in Madison Square Garden, Like what are
you doing? What's wrong with you? Why do you have
to be a jerk? Why are we among unfriends? Why
can't you cheer? Why can't you cheer the guy that
we all are supposed to cheer for. Follow the rules,
it would be it would make everything so much better.
(03:43:41):
But no, it was tough, and you know, it wasn't
something that the fans were falling out of their seats
excited for, even that clash the champions when he comes
out and they do the whole motorcade and everything with
the limo p That's that's what I mean, Like, that's
what I mean, Like I remember I remember it being
very lukewarm, and I was like, something doesn't feel good.
I don't like it. Fascinating my own they love Hulk
(03:44:04):
Holgan like I do.
Speaker 6 (03:44:06):
Well, we're gonna do the aforementioned pre and post divorce
version of the story from the Holgstern. Here's what he
said in his first book about coming in, and like
Flair said, you know they did by the time. That's
another thing that Bashed the Beach is special for is
as much as the run of the mill, WCW shots
(03:44:27):
like clashes and Saturday Nights didn't make it seem like
anyone cared about Hulk Hogan by the time they got
to Bash at the Beach and the way they worked it,
it was like, well, actually we can bring in a
new constituency here that will show enthusiasm. You know, there
are people that will show up to a Hulk Cogan
match that will remind you that he might be worth
the investment here, and that just because he doesn't play
towards the same limited audiences who were attending WCW before
(03:44:50):
he came in doesn't mean that it's always going to
be a flop when he goes out there, and also
doesn't mean they're going to cheer Rick Flair every time,
because Flair, you know, he's good enough to thread that
needle to get people to boo him.
Speaker 3 (03:45:00):
Sure, and he did it. Sure.
Speaker 6 (03:45:01):
But here is how the deal was commenced. We heard
from Flair, we heard from Bischoff. According to the Hulkster himself,
I'll read from the first Hogan book and then you
can do the second one.
Speaker 3 (03:45:11):
Sure.
Speaker 6 (03:45:12):
Since the day we started working on the show, we
had been filming on sound stag J at the MGM
studio in Disney World. It was funny because MGM had
a backstage studio tour where three thousand people an hour
went through a glass walkway and saw all the TV
programs that were being shot there. Sometime after we started,
Ted Turner's World Championship Wrestling began shooting one of its
syndicated wrestling shows next door to us on sound stage B.
(03:45:33):
And actually the way it was set up, the lettering
was backward, so the people on the tour saw soundstage
B before they saw sound Stage J. In order to
wet their appetites, the tour guy would say, come backstage
and watch Hull Cogan film his new show. Naturally, everybody
thought it was a wrestling show. It didn't occur to
them that I would be making Thunder and Paradise. So
they walked past soundstage B and they saw Rick Flair,
who had wrestled return to WHW and staying, Arn't Anderson,
(03:45:56):
all these wrestlers, but they didn't see me, so they
would ask their tour guide, where's Hulk Hogan. So three
thousand people an hour, three thousand people an hour, we're
coming through the.
Speaker 3 (03:46:04):
Place asking for a whole thousand people an hour, asking
for Hulk Hogan. Three thousand people in hour. Brother, it
drove the tour guide's nuts. Then they walked past sound
stage A and they saw me with a machine gun
on my Navy seal coat, and Chris Lemon and Carol
All and they went on, now we get it Thunder
and Paradise, but really we want to see him wrestle.
So three thousand visitors an hour, we're hounding the people
(03:46:24):
from the tourner organization and asking where I was. The
next thing I knew, Rick Flair came nosing around while
I was eating lunch with my partners Doug Schwartz and
Greg Bowen. We were talking about some overseas TV deals
we had going okay, and Rick Flair said, hey, hulk Man,
you want to dance with a nature boy? You want
to make so many I said, what are you talking to?
He definitely said right in the calf right in the
(03:46:50):
studio cafeteria. Where are you talking about? Rick? And he said,
I'm talking about WCW. I've been speaking with.
Speaker 6 (03:46:56):
Ted Turner and he said, if we can get Ahold Hogan,
it'd be like getting lightning about. We can go on
Alesia on Vince McMahon and beat his ass.
Speaker 3 (03:47:02):
That's thet A quote. I'm sure that's what he said.
Speaker 8 (03:47:04):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (03:47:05):
I said, I'd think about it maybe someday, but I
still considered Vince my friend, even though there were some
distance between us, and truthfully, I didn't think anybody could
beat Vince's ass in the wrestling business. But Ted Turner
wasn't about to let it go. Just like that, all
of a sudden, Eric Bischoff, the executive vice president of WCW,
started talking to me. Eric was a Minnesota boy who
had been a big fan of mine back when I
was working for vern Gania at the AWA.
Speaker 3 (03:47:27):
But of course that.
Speaker 6 (03:47:29):
Wasn't really the full story, as too the frame of
mind right that Hull Cogan was in when he found
himself amenable to a WCW on treaty.
Speaker 3 (03:47:38):
What about the do what about Linda? What about Linda's needs?
What about Linda wanting to build a dream house? And
where's the money gonna come from?
Speaker 6 (03:47:50):
Yes, you watch those ww shows around this time, especially
as we had toward Halloween havoc, and Hogan goes back
to the old playbook of putting his parents, his mom
and dad on WCW television in the old childhood house
talking about him as a young boy. And sure enough,
Guine Oakland does a heart to heart with Hulk Hogan
on the construction site of the Willadelle House.
Speaker 3 (03:48:09):
Oh my God, that was.
Speaker 6 (03:48:10):
Made famous on Hogan knows best and stands as a
towering symbol of the abject failure that was the blea
family and my god, the things being constructed behind him,
and what a harbinger of things to come, especially when
you view it in light of what Hogan says, here
coming your way, Boss h in his book number two,
(03:48:30):
this is my life outside the ring of memoir. So
this is without the w w e's you know, cooperation
and editing and signing its own ghost writer, and this
is not a book.
Speaker 3 (03:48:41):
I I've got it. If you want to just give
me a page or what chapter or whatever. Oh okay, yeah,
it'll probably just be easier to give you this. It works,
I'm much. I didn't record the page number. Uh so,
so yeah, it's it's him doing the whole like you know,
post Linda going out publicly and ripping them and all
(03:49:03):
the bubba all the bubba stuff and all the infidelity stuff.
So he's going back through his.
Speaker 6 (03:49:08):
Whole history with her and his whole history with you know, infidelity,
and trying to you know, introduce all these circumstances on
the domestic front and arguments with Linda that might make
you see any of his his cheating ways or some
of his drug use. I think he gets into as
well in a different light. But this is like that
part of that rehabilitation tour that coincided with the the
(03:49:30):
TNA slash TNH run as well that you were called fondly.
But so according to the book that he wrote, when
he wasn't just trying to check a box for the WWE,
and had had different allegiances to mind and take care
of and and different targets to go after. This is
really why the Holkster was compelled to sign with WCW.
(03:49:51):
Not because Rick Flair came knocking one day when he
was having lunch, but what.
Speaker 3 (03:49:55):
Exactly exactly a long one. It's not about that shit
time for the truth. The reality is, there are other needs,
there are other desires, very pro very prosaic ones. Just
needed some money, quick money. Always that's all it's about.
That's all it's about. It's always about the money, quick buck.
(03:50:17):
The all thing is why once we left the WW
I really thought I was through with wrestling, even though
the one hour TV drama is too grueling a schedule
for me to take. That's hilarious, I mean, that's I
love how it's funny how you know, doing TV shows
for some of these guys, it's worse than being on
the road, It really is. You know, it's so funny
(03:50:40):
to me.
Speaker 6 (03:50:41):
They can't, you know, Wrestling still feels like a con
because you really are only putting in twenty minutes of
work and you're making all kinds of money. You know,
It's like you put in a lot of work to
be there and to do it well, and you have
to hang around at the building and everything but it's
not like you're you're for twelve hours people are marching
around telling you what to do. There's really only twenty
(03:51:03):
minutes a week when people are telling you what to do.
Speaker 3 (03:51:06):
We and the rest.
Speaker 6 (03:51:07):
You're kind of a free spirit, you know, can do
what you wan, yep. But here it's like you have
no freedom of motion. He would talk about in press
interviews at the time about, you know, just wanted to
drive home and just like hang out with the kids
and stuff. It came at a time, all these movie
opportunities when Linda was kind of kind of in the
frame of mind that now you've got Hulk back. Now
the wrestling thing's over and he's going to be around more.
(03:51:29):
But now he's, like Rick Flair said, he's driving the
kids home, but driving the kids to school, but he's
calling Rick about the Starkadvent.
Speaker 3 (03:51:35):
She can't right.
Speaker 6 (03:51:36):
Yeah, he still wants that taste, and the film stuff
is the TV stuff is much more of a drag
on him than he expected.
Speaker 11 (03:51:44):
Mmmm.
Speaker 3 (03:51:46):
You know I would have I would have fold some
swolled their way to make a living. How we just
kept the home on Bellevue Island. I knew that nothing
could bring me income the way wrestling did. The movies,
TV shows, endorsements, and none of them was nearly as
lucrative as selling out Madison Square Garden and a pay
per view special, not even close. So I took a
look around at this massive house, and I remember saying
(03:52:06):
to myself, you know what, I'm better go back to work.
If I hadn't been for that, hadn't been for that house,
I honestly believe I would have retired from wrestling completely.
In the end, I forked over somewhere around fourteen million
dollars to get that house completed, the vast majority of
which it went to Linda's brother. Fast forwarding a bit
a few years later, Linda still insisted that she needed
(03:52:27):
a home in California. She wanted to live there in
the summers and go back and forth whenever she had time,
so over another four point five million dollars for a
gorgeous place on Thousand Oaks, right next to where head
Lockleyer lives. After that, Linda wanted a little retreat on
the sand, away from the Big House, but somewhere nearby
in Florida as well, so she could try out a
(03:52:48):
whole different decorating scheme. So we bought a house on
clear Water Beach with nothing but sand between us and
the ocean, and she filled it with tartan plaid carpet
and Paisley wallpaper on the ceilings. Of course, Gil Claradge Interiors,
the home Furnishings and furnisure store that's owned by none
other than Linda's mother, furnished all those homes. You'll guess
(03:53:10):
who's always been her best customer. Why that's actually not
the proper French got it.
Speaker 6 (03:53:17):
Whah for that, it's not, But it's tremendous, hell attached
like a sucubist. You know, all of our family has
these businesses. All of a sudden that Terry's the only customer.
Give me a fucking break.
Speaker 3 (03:53:31):
Exactly from the early nineties, from through the end of
our marriage. Then they kept Jones in for real estate.
It's just so weird. It was stopping Vegas and she's
only be out looking at properties to buy in Vegas,
well places, saying how great it would be to own
a home in that desert. You know, we'd blow through
Atlanta and she'd suddenly be out looking at properties in
Atlanta's posh suburbs. I swear if we had gone to Alaska,
(03:53:55):
she would have spent a day driving around looking about
a high end igloo. It just never stop anyway. It
was Linda's dreamed the house that made me change my
mind and started taking seriously talking seriously with the w CW.
I love how he calls it. The w C does
always by the time of my career, even when Ted
Turner himself off the Hulk Hogan name had been too
(03:54:15):
tarnished by steroids scandal to transfer over to his organization,
I'm sure he gave a shit, right, I'm sure Ted
Turner was like, oh, well, you know, I don't know
my bad doesn't now he didn't know that steroid shit.
I don't know about that actually anything. I imagine he
would have been like, goddamn, I bring that son of
bit John Well that's what they said. Yeah, that's a
Bishop says that he thought he was so anti you know,
(03:54:36):
we know he's so anti everything, like he would have
you know, if Ulkogan had been arrested for murdery but
a fucking put him, you know, you know, the whole
name is too Tarnabo was transfer over his you know,
Eric Bischoff, Rick Flair and a guy named Bill Shaw
stood up for me. As a dark cloud of visick
man juniors federal trial loomed in early nine ninety four.
(03:54:58):
They truly believed in me and fought for me. Well,
you know what, we're fans, they said to the powers
that being. We think that the rest of Hulk Hogan's
fans are more loyal than to this to let this
controversy keep him from the bring. I just really hope
you were right.
Speaker 9 (03:55:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:55:17):
Once Vince's trial finally began at the US District Court
in the Uniondale in New York in the summer of
nine ninety four, I was said to be called as
a prosecution star witness. When I found out what the
charges against him were the year before, I told him,
you know, we got often to hide. I honestly didn't
think he had anything to be scared about. He just
couldn't believe I would go up there as a witness
(03:55:37):
for the prosecution, though I had no choice. But he
was so angry. I guess I thought I was going
to make up, make up lives to hurt him, which
wasn't the case at all. You know, if this was
my hero, he's the guy who opened up all this
whole universe for me. Why would I want? Why would
I do anything to hurt him? I made sure I
had full immunity for an exchange for my testimony. Of
(03:55:58):
course I wasn't a fool. Then. All I did was
tell the truth, the truth at that a truth the
federal prosecutors didn't want to hear. The night before the trial,
I got a taste of why Evince was so nervous.
I was sound asleep at the Marriot across from the
Massa Austhiviics Center, right by the courthouse, when someone started
a pounding my door. Brother, what I woke up in
the start and rolled over and looked at the clock.
(03:56:19):
It was two am. Who's there, I asked, Is to
the Federal prosecute Oh my god. It was to of
the federal prosecutors on the case. They seemed worried about
about how the case was going. They want to go
over my testimony, and we're hoping to get some control
over the situation. So they walked me through what they
expect that I would say about buying steroids from Vincent,
(03:56:39):
how he shot me up, how he sold steroids to
all the other wrestlers, and how stories were a job
requirement in the WWE, But the gist of this conversation
was that they had spent millions on this case and
they needed to They needed me to hit the ball
out of the park, you know, for them. Maybe I
was just nervous or overthinking the situation, but the whole
(03:56:59):
thing seen in the middle of the night seemed like
something not the Godfather, you know, Godfather to me. I
was scared to death, so I yes, it was as
much as I could just to get them to leave,
even though the things that they seem to be counting
on me saying didn't match the whole truth that I
knew and expected to share in that courtroom. As they left,
they said they would pick me up in the morning
(03:57:19):
to make sure I got to the courtroom on time.
That's fucking oh yeah, they will, Jesus. You know. The
moment they were gone, I called my entertainment attorney, Henry Holmes,
and his response was simple bullshit. He came to my
hotel before sunrise and made sure I was out out
of there before the prosecutors would come back. And outside
the courtals that day it looked like I seen it
(03:57:41):
from the oj trial, But the parking lot was just
a sea of satellite news trucks. I had never encountered
anything like it. I saw this interstinct that Vince was
somehow going to try to flip the whole case and
blame it on me. I had no idea how I
would do that, but I just thought it would be
an easy way out of if he poured a finger
at Hulk Hogan and let the media run wild. Let
(03:58:02):
the media run you know, I understand was right as
I walked in my courtroom, I looked over him and
saw my mule, the guy used to carry drugs steroids
from me on the road, sitting next to Vince in
Vince's attorney And why is he here, I wondered, if
my testimony hurt Vince. I have no doubt that they
would have used my mule to tell every tall tale
(03:58:23):
in the book about my steroid use and how I
was running them all over the country or selling them
or forcing them on my opponents. You know, this mule
must have been there as a as a backup to
crush my credibility. That would have meant the end of
my career forever. I Vincent truly had nothing to worry about.
On the witnesses stand. The Fens asked me if Vincent
(03:58:45):
Evers told me the steroids. I answered no. They asked
me if he had ever injected me with steroids.
Speaker 1 (03:58:50):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:58:50):
I even explained to them how I wouldn't trust anyone
else to stick a needle to me because I stuck
myself a thousand times and knew how to do it
without hitting any nerves. Brother, I never trust Vince to
stick a needle of me. Dude, Fuck that bro, absolutely not.
They asked me about every angle of their of their
entire case, from Zahorean's role to Vince's secretary's role. I
answered honestly about everything. The fact was I had introduced
(03:59:14):
Vince the steroids during the film and a no holes
barred the movie. We wrote together in a forty eight
hour rundown in Florida, and I testified to that fact.
I also spoke about how I shared steroids with Vince,
and Vince shared steroids with me the same way two
buddies might share cigarettes. That's as far as I ever went.
You know, Vincent hadn't done anything differently than any of
(03:59:35):
the rest of us. He wasn't distributing steroids if they
were going to put him in jail, then they needed
to put every single wrestler in jail along with it.
I said that on the witness stand, and the prosecutors
were dumbfounded and due the moment the just dismissed me.
I slipped out of that courtroom through a side door,
hopping a cab the Teeterboro Airport and chartered playing down
in Florida as fast as I possibly could. I didn't
(03:59:57):
go back to New York for years, scared of death
of those Feds would find a way to arrest me
or put a hit on me or something. Even when
I was with the WCW, no, no one New York
had a chance to see me wrestle in the flesh.
I wouldn't show up at those New York arenas. I
was just too scared talking about word New York stuff.
For WW he did that Paramount Theater show where they
expanded to the Yeah, right, but that was later though, right,
(04:00:21):
wasn't that nWo Oh? That was definitely a yellow and
Red Hogan era. I think it was ninety four, Yeah,
late ninety four, Yeah, all right, well whatever, Yeah, it
was worth it, though. You know, there is no better
feeling than tell them the truth. How the fuck would
he know that? You know that he's the last guy
I turned to on that Yeah, no matter how much
(04:00:43):
it hurts, and were terrible repercussions in my bring the
truth I told in that witness stand that day was
the reason that Vincezickman Junior walked away a free man.
And that's all I ever want to see. And how
did Vince take me? In return? He stood on the
steps that courthouse, in front of all those microphones and
cameras and satellite trucks and me buried me. I'm happy
with a verdict, he said, But I wish Hulk Hogan
had told the truth. Well, what do you mean by that?
(04:01:05):
I told the truth. It only further proved me that
I instincts were right. If it came down to it,
Hulk was Vince was willing to throw Hulk Hogan under
a bus to clear his own name, you know, when
he didn't get a chance to do it in the courtroom,
he did it in the court of public opinion. By then,
Vince knew I was going over to wrestle for this competition. No,
(04:01:26):
it was just business, Vince would say years later when
I asked him why he did that to me, Well,
I guess I'd taken the Hulk Hogan phenomenon over to
w CW. Was just business to Vince, you know. Three
days after testifying in New York, I russelled Rick Flair
for the w CW Championship belt. That's insane. Threee, that's
(04:01:48):
absolutely insane. The Bash of the Beach was a massive success,
even though fans held up Sime saying, Hogan, did you
take your shots today? And don't leave home without your steroids?
Like I said, I stopped using steroids in nine ninety two,
So not by our Senny Hall at all, right, like
Savage Night, but lesson, I learned the hardest way possible
at the media and how a trickle of a lot
(04:02:09):
can snowball into that avalanche. Yeah, once a trickle get
started the way it did with my Arsenio Hall commons,
there's no way to stop it. All you can do
is ride it out and hope you don't get buried
so deep that you're lost forever. Over time, the tults
from the fans went away, as my massive bulk from
the steroids went away too. Something really strange happened. I
(04:02:31):
actually started to look more I actually started to look
better on camera. You' getting some Hollywood advice. Here we
go with the it's actually the right thing yep. I
didn't know anything about cow cameras and lining worked on
my body when I set up to develop my twenty
four guns back in nineteen seventy six. Nearly twenty years later,
I started to notice that it was all about proportions.
(04:02:52):
As a steroid free waste got a little bit thinner
in proportion of my shoulders. I actually looked bigger on
screen with the waterway gone my muscles. It just had
more ripped in powerful looking appearance than they ever did before.
And I put that lean, mean power look to good use.
I blew the roof off. I blew the roof off
of WCW. The audience exploded, for you know, exploded for
(04:03:16):
a long time. We absolutely crushed me man in the ratings.
But still, with the help of Eric Bischoff, I started
to make far more money than I ever did with
Vincent the WWE. I had a bigger cut, a bigger
cut of every T shirt and a piece of merchandise
that was sold. I was sharing in revenues from broadcasts.
I had a bigger cut at the gate, a gate
at the arenas. For the first time my whole career,
(04:03:37):
I could finally look out at a stadium full of
people who were there to see me and know that
I was getting my fair share of that massive revenue
that was walking in the door every night. That's tremendous feeling.
Like I said before, all I wanted to do was
give my family every opportunity to have whatever they desired
in life. Right ever since that first moment when I
held baby Brook in my arms, this was all them
(04:04:00):
to know that I was going to be able to
give them more than ever. That was a rush.
Speaker 6 (04:04:05):
Dude, Hulk Hogan, what brother, what do you think is
it's because Linda wanted a fancy house? Well, uh, Linda, Yeah,
(04:04:27):
I mean I listen, I would I would bet that
there is certainly part of that in there.
Speaker 3 (04:04:33):
But I bet Linda has something different.
Speaker 6 (04:04:36):
Well, she's actually kind of mom on the transition, including
in her book w WH. She's never very much to
say about it because she jumps right to you know,
w W equals Hogan turns. There isn't a lot of
you know, reflection upon the time before he turns.
Speaker 3 (04:04:49):
Heel.
Speaker 6 (04:04:50):
But I just thought that was just such a such
a classic Hogan thing where it's like, yep, you know
the whole reason I wouldn't even have gone back.
Speaker 3 (04:04:58):
I didn't have to. I was fellow. I don't want
to go back. Brother, I don't want to do that, dude,
But you know why me? Fucking you know why me? Dude?
Speaker 6 (04:05:05):
Yeah, definitely the martyr complex definitely setting in for sure.
But he makes it appearance on another WCP platform. It's
called Colleague All Sports, and this is like a Collin show.
And it's becoming very clear now that the Turner synergies
are clicking into place, and that Hull Hogan is taking
to Turner sponsored airwaves to promote and create some buzzer
(04:05:29):
on the idea that he's coming back to the business.
Speaker 3 (04:05:32):
Got it.
Speaker 4 (04:05:33):
Did you ever think at age forty this would be
a kind of a comeback for you?
Speaker 10 (04:05:37):
Yeah, well, you know, this is kind of like forty
going on eighteen. I see what's happening in the WCWN,
around the whole wrestling world. I've got myself in probably
the best shape I've ever been in. So let's say
the old timer who's been around the block a few
times has got a few new tricks are going to
show the young guys.
Speaker 4 (04:05:53):
So you feel like, you know, people should come out
there and see what the haulks now for.
Speaker 3 (04:05:57):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 10 (04:05:58):
I think Hulamania is going to run wild through the nineties.
And I've been watching the twos man. I got my
sight set on this. Rick Flair, got I can just
get ted Turner by the arm and bended a little
bit more.
Speaker 9 (04:06:08):
Am I getting to sign that contract? Rick Flair?
Speaker 3 (04:06:11):
And all Cogan?
Speaker 9 (04:06:11):
That'll be a good one.
Speaker 4 (04:06:12):
All right, It's go to the phones now, and John,
where are we? Okay, Felton City, Wisconsin, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 9 (04:06:17):
Think you know the man?
Speaker 3 (04:06:18):
Am I right? Yeah?
Speaker 14 (04:06:19):
I do?
Speaker 13 (04:06:19):
And Paul Gallas wondering how you think the competitions get
different from the where you the wrestling WWF Now at WCW.
Speaker 9 (04:06:26):
Well, you know, sports entertainment, as we coined the phrase.
Speaker 10 (04:06:30):
And WCW is a lot of great athletes, some of
the greatest athletes in the world, a lot of great
entertainers and great actors all rolled into one. I think
the WCW places its emphasis more on the athletic promise
of its wrestlers. And once I get these guys down
in the center of the ring and teach him a
few wrestling lessons.
Speaker 9 (04:06:49):
Then I'll get a chance to entertain them.
Speaker 10 (04:06:51):
But I realized to get to the top of the WCW,
I'm gonna have to focus more on getting down on
the mat than before. Then this character of Haltimani actually
became bigger than in the sport itself. And now that
some of the stars of the eighties such as Hal
Coogan is still running wild in the nineties, myself and
others like Rick Flair, We're gonna take the sport to
another level and we can't wait to bring the families
(04:07:12):
and the kids with us, because this is family entertainment.
Speaker 9 (04:07:15):
At its best. It's action instead of violence.
Speaker 10 (04:07:18):
And we really feel that with mister Turner and the
whole w CW and TBS behind us, we've got the
vehicle and we've got the guns, which are bigger than
the twenty fournch Pythons to take.
Speaker 9 (04:07:28):
It to a new level, and we're gonna have you
at ringside.
Speaker 19 (04:07:30):
Also, Hey, hey, you doing hall Cod And I was like, say,
I have a lot of respect for you, and you're
one of the grand sfessors that I am the biggest
Rick Flair and for Horston fan there is, and Rick
Flair has a history for being the sixty.
Speaker 13 (04:07:40):
Minute man is all night long.
Speaker 19 (04:07:42):
I was wondering if when you two do meet, if
you think sam and will be a factor?
Speaker 3 (04:07:46):
Whoa whoa brother?
Speaker 9 (04:07:48):
Hey, man, he's a strong well the thing.
Speaker 10 (04:07:50):
Over the last couple of years, I've dieded down, I've
gotten really good shape and I'm ready to go all
night long with a man if he's ready for me.
Speaker 3 (04:07:55):
He gave you the.
Speaker 9 (04:07:59):
Very stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:08:00):
Help us out a little bit.
Speaker 9 (04:08:01):
Yeah, your phoenix. What's happening?
Speaker 13 (04:08:04):
Hey?
Speaker 18 (04:08:04):
Not much?
Speaker 3 (04:08:05):
Not enough of mean?
Speaker 13 (04:08:06):
Hey?
Speaker 8 (04:08:07):
This wholser?
Speaker 3 (04:08:08):
Yeah? Man, what's up?
Speaker 8 (04:08:09):
Brother?
Speaker 3 (04:08:10):
Hey?
Speaker 17 (04:08:10):
Not much?
Speaker 3 (04:08:11):
Hey?
Speaker 13 (04:08:11):
I saw him that you know. I'm probably your number
one fan here, and I just I saw one of
your last wrestling matches with I'm getting kind of nervous here,
but I saw one of your matches with Ric Flair.
Speaker 9 (04:08:29):
Uh huh. He's cheated, man, he didn't he cheated.
Speaker 13 (04:08:35):
I really want you to beat the heck got a
rig Flair.
Speaker 9 (04:08:38):
I'm gonna do that for you, man, I'm gonna beat
the heck Ric Flair for a lot of you.
Speaker 13 (04:08:41):
You're a phoenix and I definitely want you to hurt him.
Speaker 9 (04:08:44):
Really, No, we're not gonna hurt him.
Speaker 10 (04:08:45):
We're just gonna teach him of us and about what
Hulkamania is all about. The training, the prayers, the vitamins,
and about being positive and being a winner.
Speaker 9 (04:08:51):
That's what we're gonna teach him.
Speaker 13 (04:08:53):
I was just like, what, I'm proud of you and
like you're doing a great job in teaching the kids
about having to behave and uh stay from drug and alcohol.
Speaker 10 (04:09:01):
Well, brother, the thing is, you know we all have
to stay positive and be a leader, not a follower.
And you know something that anytime there's a negative in
your life, you have to turn it into a positive.
And that's what Haull Covid and hull Cammania is all about.
Speaker 4 (04:09:12):
Hey, with some of the now the word about the
steroid use and the partying with the w W, what
was that like that period of time and from being
on top and then people challenging you then maybe having
to come Yeah.
Speaker 10 (04:09:23):
Well, if there was ever a dark cloud in hull
Cogan's career, it was during that time when the steroid
allegations were going down. Hull Cogan, many of the rustlers,
many of the athletes were part of that era. And
once again it's about turning negatives into positives.
Speaker 9 (04:09:37):
That was in the past. We've all been brought up
to speed.
Speaker 10 (04:09:40):
Hull Cogan's learned lessons, the American Medical Association has learned lessons,
and you know, we need to send out a real
positive message to the kids that there are no shortcuts.
You have to believe in yourself. You have to work
hard every day and if you work hard enough in
this life, my friend, you can get what you want.
But basically that was my only dark cloud. That was then,
This is now and hull Commania has taken off for
greater heights.