Ep. 426: Summer Mailbag

TLF Takes Over Times Square THIS SUNDAY - Tix: https://comedyvillage.com/event/the-lapsed-fan-podcast/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Oh this is it. This is what it looks and
feels like. Boss on on Ona con con con conk.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Come king our first show after the death of Hull Coogan,
man in our last before we take the stage August third,
Comedy Village, Times Square, High Noon, in between nights one
and two of Summer Slam. Yes, and it's as if
you know, the gods delivered upon us a perverse, a
perversely perfect set of circumstances going into the show because

(01:06):
we had a feedback show, we wanted to clear the
mailbag out. But man, is it going to have a
whole lot more punch after the death of.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hull Cogan, a whole different can of worms now, Jesus, you.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Know, folks who are in the moat tier on Patreon
would have heard us sharing the call with each other
as JP got to me first on the death of
Hull Cogan.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
It's a rarity these days, absolutely shocked.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
We've course shared with you audio of our appearance on
the Josh Nason Wrestling Observer show punch Out, where we
talked the day of the news about hul Cogan and
what his passing means to wrestling fans of our vintage.
In particular the type of wrestling fans that would you know,
cast their lot with TLF. So we've said a lot,
but it feels like we're just kind of getting started.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Where are you at? You know, it's it's a it's
it's hard. It's very hard, you know. I I've definitely
had some difficulty separating the man from the character. Yep.
And there's you know, because there's definitely obviously there is

(02:20):
so much you know, people are going razy co razy
on social media everywhere in regards to you know, this
guy's a piece of shit. You know, he's not really
worth your time and he's not worth remembering. And it's like, Okay,
I I just can't because to me, that's just a

(02:43):
little too narrow. I don't have to celebrate the man,
but I will celebrate the character and how I felt
about him, yeah, during my youth.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, I think it's an all kind of mature on
that front.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It's hard. I mean there there there are some times
where it feels like it's just it's very black and
white in regards to whether or not you should celebrate someone. Obviously,
we know he's he tainted his legacy without a doubt
over the last several years longer even, I mean the
last like fifteen years, he's really just tainted his legacy

(03:19):
with just stupid, stupid stuff and and and and really
just showing who he kind of really is as he
got older. But but I also can't deny the fact
that the character had an impact on me when I
was a kid.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
The fact that we have to underplay that, you know,
it's like had an impact, had an impact.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
It the only reason a podcast like this exists. Yeah, right,
I mean that that's that's it. That's it. And so
I I I I do feel like it's okay too
to eulogize the right word.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
You know, I feel especially comfortable because no one's done
more than we have to lay this man's flaws barrel
exactly exactly everything you know about the particulars, not just
the broad strokes, but the particulars, about all that stuff
with with the the tape recorded racist comments and the
sex tape and all that stuff. All that is you
know what happened with Nick and the jailhouse phone tape said,

(04:22):
that's you know, the deep texture of it, because you
listen to this podcast TNH in particular, So you can't
say we haven't done our penance on on that part
of the the legacy. For lack of a better word,
you know, my god, I just watched the smack down.
It's like they gave him less of a tribute than
Chris ben Waugh. Now, of course, I know that's not fair,

(04:45):
but considering.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I mean, you'd think they'd give him a whole show.
I mean, that's what I know.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, Old Cogan would have gotten a whole show if
not for all the racism stuff, for sure. And he
would have gotten a whole show if he wasn't Boots
so vociferously coming back years after that whole scandal. That's
it's not just that it happened and he said these things.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's that I mean, it's also that he goes that
that that he shows support for Trump. There's just this
that's true. That was an extra that's right. That did
add spice to the soup for sure. At the end,
I think, you know, it's like, you know, a flare
comes out and kind of kind of still gets cheered
and stuff. It's like the verdicts in folks, Okay, racism
is worse than sexual assault. I'm sorry to report that

(05:27):
being the case, people still advocate for Chris Menoir in
the Hall of Fame. So apparently racism is even worse
than murder. I guess so.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
But the you know, the death fault Cogan puts a
lot of important things on the table, but for us
in particular, obviously, it's I think it's going to be
a matter boss looking back between lapsed fan before when
you know, laps fan when Hogan was alive, and lapsed
fan when Hogan had passed.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yes, I mean, it really is. I mean it's it's
it's still a weird thing. Like honestly, I'll I'm the
the mornings since I'm walking my dog in the morning,
and it just kind of hits me while I'm walking
the dog. You know, it's almost like I almost can't

(06:09):
believe it. You know, I thought for sure he'd sold
his soul to the devil so badly, he was going
to last a long time. But I guess only one
person what he embraced Christ as a savior. He was
on the way down, you know. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
It was when he was, you know, involved in all
kinds of ignominious stuff that he seemed to be surviving
despite all odds. I mean, the guy I've said it
a hundred times. You know, hul Cogan should have been
the one right off in the sunset, and he had
the messiest fucking post wrestling life one could possibly imagine
in terms of all he built up from the wealth
of capturing our imaginations all those years that.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
I mean, it just goes to show you that none
of them really can good luck, you know, like stone
Cold was probably stone Cold in the Rock were probably
the best cases, but then they ruined it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Well yeah, Rock still littling it. He still needs it,
he still needs wrestling. Yeah, I know he's not sure.
John still needs wrestling. I mean, this whole retirement tour, like,
I mean, come on, they should have been done participating
in anything on screen with the W tow from an
angle and match perspective, both of those guys consider the
success they've had in Hollywood. They should have been done

(07:18):
ten years ago. Yes, they should not. Still Rock should
have been done. Rocks should have been done in in
in ninety four, in two thousand and four. Yes, when
they didn't renew was contract, you should have been done.
They should not still need whatever it is performing in
WW gives them, but they do. And so here we
are yep. And of course the questions have come in
what are we going to do as a podcast? You know,

(07:40):
we've set this standard around tribute shows and uh, you know,
appropriately appropriately tipping our cap to people that have been influential.
You can't you can't get bigger than Hull Cogan on
that front at all, because you can't get bigger than
Hull cogu.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
And we have done so much already in the archives.
I mean, there is so much that's that's part of
the that is part of the problem, you know for
us anyway, is that there is so much that's done.
I mean, so much of his his career, so much
of his life has been covered by us.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
So here's what we can tell you since the day
we started The Lapsed Fan a little over ten years ago,
covering SummerSlam nineteen ninety one. Interestingly, that's right, that's right, Hulkamania,
with all its brilliance and warts, has washed over this podcast.
So it was the decade prior for JP and I
as we huddled in a dorm room chortling about Hulk
Hogan's masterful politics and limpooning his paranoia as he had

(08:31):
returned to WW and instantly seamlessly remade ww in his
image all over again. Yeah, giving us the red and
yellow back before we realized we wanted it again.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
So it was the decade even before that, as we
came of age, children of the tail end of Hulkamania
and the Hasbro era, piecing together the decade of Hogan
that we missed as toddlers, piecing together how this shiny
jacked charisma machine came to be by begging our parents
to go to the video store and rent yet another
Holisem video drawn in by a video jacket cover art

(09:02):
of Hogan juxtaposed with the foe of the day. I
always wondered what the decade after hul Cogan's death would
look like around these parts, a podcast like this, a
wrestling industry like this, a society like this. Whenever that
time came, I felt relatively certain we would have covered
it all. For what was the initial spark behind even
doing the Lapsed fan if not to have a reason

(09:24):
to go back and watch Hull Cogan matches right, I
mean seriously, and to compare our notes with each other
on set matches. And it turned out compare our notes
not only with each other, but with thousands of lapsed
fans across the world on what Hogan was, how he'd
find a way to our hearts, and how he taught
us the dark arts of staying relevant and never missing
a trick. Yes, but then we thought, wait a minute,

(09:47):
this is the lapsed fan we unapologetically stew in the
juices of the past. It's true, that's where the subtled
truth is after all, And for hull Cogan, now there
will be no more violent twists and turns on what
seemed like an annual basis completely upended our sense of
what hul Conkin's legacy will even be. I know, no
more beer launches or wired taps, or political rallies or

(10:09):
abrupt religiosity or shunned grandchildren or tearful ex wives that
we know of or who knows you know? Or how
about banished best friends to account for you. No more
extra logs on the bonfire of apologies that you have
to make and personal belief provis those you have to
issue before celebrating the man Hulk Hogan performed for the
audience that was in front of him, whether it was

(10:31):
one to one via his son through a jailhouse glass
or a surreptitious recording to another man's wife discussing who
his daughter was dating, or before a reality show crew
of probably like ten people who totally took over his
Tampa mance, or before five hundred thousand people at WrestleMania
three yep. To spend time trying to parse out who
the real Hulk Cogan was is missing the whole point.

(10:52):
Hulk was whoever he needed to be, as the vicissitudes
of celebrity threw him curveball after curveball, and we at
TLF we need hulky Mania is still run wild in
a real weird way, at least for the next little while.
If Hull Cogan washed over everything we have done to date,
then we're in the privileged position to say that will
continue with an even greater focus and commitment to pinning

(11:15):
down why this guy was central to so much. As
much as we've covered in tremendous detail about Hulkogan, from
his first WWF title win to his Awa and Japan
exploits with Bockwinkle and Mudha, to the first Saturday Nights
Made Event and his role and becoming his whole role
in Saturday Nights Made Event and becoming a thing, to
his pivotal role in the George of Horrin and Vince

(11:36):
mcmann's steroid trials yep. To the nineteen ninety four Bash
of the Beach just last Time, his WWW and his
nineteen ninety six Bash of the Beach w W Hill
Turn and his two thousand Bashes at the Beach legal
showdown with Vince Russeau. And how about f U N B.
Hulk Yes to the rise and fall of the nWo
and the rise and fall of TNA with him involved,

(11:56):
to the first Nitro and Postumania and Last Nightro and
this incredible film career I'm going to get there, okay,
and a Gawker trial, every single one of his movies
under the cinemat, a series that in fact started with
Santa with Muscles, it did started with Hulk.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Look at that. I mean, that's it starts with Hulkogan
all the.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Way through to the Secret Agent Club, including that to
literally getting on a plane, literally getting on a plane
to Detroit, yep, so that we could walk the rubble
of the Pontiac Silver Dome in search of clarity as
to why hul Cogan was such an avatar for all
we had and all we lost of all that upon

(12:37):
his passing on July twenty fourth, at the age of
seventy one. We were inundated with pay per views shows
and topics that we didn't get to before Hulk passed.
Everybody wanted to know, Hey, you know, what about this show?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
What about that one? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:51):
And you know, it would have been unthinkable standing here
on the death of Hulkgan when we first started TLF
that we would have anything left to do about Hulkogen. Yeah,
it just seemed like that's all we were here to
do was just watch Hulkogan right again in a lot
of ways, but the cast evolved and people asked different
things of us, and we asked different things of ourselves.
So in fact, a lot of well to Zeric Bischoff's

(13:14):
analogy apples have been yet to be clicked from the tree.
Ogan's contributions were so vast that even after doing this
for a decade, we still have tapes to pull off
the video store shelf, don't we, Boss.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I mean more than you'd think. You know, you'd think
that we would have we would have covered more, but
we did not.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
We still have nooks and crannies, nicks and crannies to
collar in before we can lay the Hulkster to rest
around these parts presenting. Going forward, we're going to be
calling the Complete Hulk Hogan, our wholehearted attempt to systematically

(13:55):
cover everything about Hulk Hogan that we never got to
when he was here on this earth with us, from
his earliest days wrestling in Florida, Alabama, Memphis, and Georgia
to his first tours of Japan and winning the inaugural
i WGP title against Antonio and ok to all of
those Saturday Night's main events, and has anyone who listened
to our Tnh's Journey or our Bash of the Beach

(14:16):
ninety four episode can attest we've occasionally been overtaken by
a feeling that we're getting a last chance to say
goodbye to Hulk Hogan. These things came out of nowhere,
but seemed to uncandidly be followed by real life twists
and turns. I mean, Boss, we did Bash at the
Beach ninety four. The fake Hogan dies. The guy who
dresses up like him dies, I know, I mean that
guy who's followed him around for for forever. You know,

(14:40):
he was at WrestleMania seven. He's at Bash.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
The beach. This guy goes followed Hulk Hogan everywhere. I
even know his name.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
That's it, Yeah, his face and that Hulk himself. The
day our deep dive of Bash at the Beach ninety
four dropped, completing our coverage of really the last real
monumental thing in a lot of ways that he did
that we haven't covered yet.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Hit the feed.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
He died that day, and we were inspired to do
it because because of the chatter that he might be
in more ill health than his immediate circle would let
on publicly. We thought, let's do this, but I did
not expect it to happen and click in So dare
I say poetically, but there we stood, mouths agape, jaws

(15:28):
dropped that the way it did end up playing out,
and what it means going forward, We've occasionally been, like
I said, overtaken by a feeling that we're getting a
last chance to say goodbye to this guy. And this
starts all the way back when Oh my God, JP
to me. It's part of the same thing when we
both devised a caricature of Hulk in our heads. Is

(15:48):
someone obsessed with visual pinfalls, Yes, And what happened once
we created that whole idea in our mind that this
is Hulk Hogan's sort of personality, that he just by
all means is trying to prevent anyone from ever seeing
him with his shoulders down on the floor, even in public,
even in any and that he has to grab pinfalls
on anybody who could be a threat to his torch.
As we decided to put it, yep.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
What happened.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
We sat down to watch raw YEP, and they beat
the shit out of the Rock building up WrestleMania eighteen.
The nWo did, and he still had to get the
visual pinfall. He gets it, He gets it, He pins
the rock and Scott Hall counts the three. We watched
in hyper real amazement as hul Cocain insisted uncovering Rock
for a visual three count with no ref wasn't a match.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
It was an angle. Yeah, but it's it's kind of
like that what happened last week? You know, kind of interesting.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
Brother.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
What if I kind of like lay down on you, dude,
and you, you know, we gotta do the three count?

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Brother.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm not saying you obviously it's not a match, brother,
but what if he kind of like, what if he
had something it's a heat, dude, Heat brother. So we're
talking about heat and heat to you know, WrestleMania, brother,
because I know, I know for sure, No DJ, I
know for sure. Man, they are gonna boo the hell
out of me in Toronto. Yeah, they never liked me

(17:10):
in Toronto. Dude.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
He gets all that, he gets heaped with all that
praise for doing the honors for Dwayne and Toronto. Yet
he comes He's WW champion in a month running the
whole fucking show and he got a one two three
on Rock on television before the thing even happened. Yeah, yep,
for what that's worth. But to see that happen as
if we wished it into existence, and then to see

(17:35):
halt pass when we get the sudden kind of cosmic
signal that we really ought to do this show. Now
it's July Bash of the Beach July. It just it
just made a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
And here we are, I think, equally amazed as we
were back when we watched that Monday Night Raw and
he pinned the rock for no reason.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh for sure, no question. I got to say.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
It feels like we've said goodbye to Hull, Cogan and
all he meant to our generation time and time again
on the lapsed fan. But we can take as long
to say goodbye as we damn well please. This will
be about filling the gaps, because amazingly there are many.
Or to settle the score. Yep, we're all to settle
it all.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
The big event yep, wrestle Fest. How about the very
first Survivor series at ninet eighty six, right, how about
the nineteen eighty eight Summer Slammer the Megapowers take on
the Megabusks. How about the nineteen eighty nine Royal Rumble
where the fateful Ready Savagehull Coke and Wrestleminia five man
event was set up. How about we look at all
the Saturday night's main events. How about we go to

(18:39):
WCW and do all the stuff from ninety six before
he turned heel super Brawl. What about Halloween Havoc that
year where he had turned heel and had the wig
on his head?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (18:50):
How about super Brawl the next year? How about Bashes
at the Beach with Dennis Rodman, which he of course
was absolutely instrumental and making happen in ninety seven and
ninety eight. What about when he tried to go back
to the red and yellow in ninety nine at Fall
Brawl against Sting.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Well, exactly what about that? What about made if any Sting?
What about Fall Brawl? What was it?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
The type AI strap deathmatch in March two thousand against Flair?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
What was it?

Speaker 4 (19:13):
The what it was?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Uh? Yeah? Put the poo poo? Yeah, one of those
Kevin Sullivan words.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
What are those Kevin Sullivan Encyclopedia Britannica given, yeah, right,
the final pay per view match he had with Flair?
What about the XWF experiment and yes and yes?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
What about the two thousand and two return, what about
Backlash and Judgment Day and King of the Ring? What
about what about No Way Out nWo? All over that show?
I mean, looks listen that memory. They even did it.
No Way Out nWo right there, No Way Out. It's
like the show was made for them back in nineteenninety eight,
Backlash O five or Summer Slam O six against Randy Orton.

(19:52):
So many moments in between. For the shows I just listed,
and perhaps more, you can expect traditional lapsed fan shows
about each and every one of these events. So it's
not just going to be as we've done with the
other tributes, just Hogan's match, We're just gonna do the
events that ought to have been done about hul Cogan
as we would.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Have before he passed. We're just going to use that
as our orienting principle for as long as it takes
in show selection going forward. As part of the complete
Hulk Hogan. Now, of course, we will do the episodes
that aren't just built him around an event, but built
around time periods. We're going to go systematically a year
through year, and this will be a chance to do
things that people have asked us to do for years.

(20:31):
When we come up to a wrestlingmania that we've already
covered as part of the thirty Week Journey, and so
much more has come out subsequent to those recordings as
to the context and potential research around those events, this
will be our chance. Hulk Hogan will once again be
the reason that we check so many boxes that the
lapsed fan is thirsty four. It's be a chance to

(20:52):
do all that. There's be a chance to get into
so much more than we had at our disposal when
we did Star K ninety seven, for instance, against staying
and all that's been said since discovered and uncovered sense
about the nature of that debacle all the way along
the way, we hope to fill in gaps and if
nothing else, we will be happy when our time on
the earth is over that the lapsed fan catalog will

(21:14):
have been the absolute quintessential guide to Hulk Hoges's career. Yes,
but the shows I just listed and perhaps more again,
those traditional treatments coming your way, but we know because
Hogan is so central to them. Even if we do
these shows in the traditional way we do pay per
view events, they'll be about paying tribute to Hulk as well.

(21:35):
Maybe not as gratuitously, but every time we do one
of these events that are built around houlk Cogan in
the main event, and there are so many across WWFNWCW,
you'll get the sense that this is, even if not
directly a tribute to Hulk Hogan in a way. We'll
be systematic about this, making sure the full Hogan era
is a purportly emblazoned in the catalog. And folks, we

(21:58):
need your help because we can only see so far
out in the distance. You know what's coming. You felt
the power of Hulcay and you just like the rest
of us. Tell us what you remember about the most
significant moments along the way by emailing us God yes,
please at the lapsed maan at gmail dot com. After all,
it may be quite a while before we do another
feedback episode, So get that feedback in. Tell us where

(22:19):
along the way from the birth of Terry Boleya to
the death of Terry Boleya, we absolutely must pause to
reflect on significant things he did said appearances he may
doesn't have to be matches, doesn't have to be big
pay per view events, doesn't even needn't necessarily have to
be television. Whatever it is that impacted you about Hulkgan
and all of his time in the business, let us

(22:42):
know about it so that as we go systematically year
through year, we can make note of it and again
reach our potential as the place that Hulkgin's the biggest
wrestling legacy we can imagine, is fully ensconced. So let's
send us not only printed, you know, typed emails, but
also audio testimony. Remember that from the good old days
we see these kind of audio clips during the WrestleMania

(23:02):
journey of people just recollecting verbally what it all meant.
Make sure we don't miss anything, any little nugget that
you feel like you uniquely may remember about Hulk Hogan,
anything he said done, send it to us, tell us
what it's connected to, and we'll try to make the
complete Hulk Cogan as much about your memories as it
is about ours. Absolutely, we may lose other giants along
the way while doing this. We are fully cognizant of that.

(23:24):
We may lose Rick Flair in the middle of this.
Maybe we may lose Vince McMahon in the middle of this.
Maybe paying tribute to them in the main feed, we'll
just have to take a back seat to the Holster.
The truth is, for us, we wouldn't care nearly as
much about a Vince McMahon or Rick Flair, or Kevin
Nash or Alex Luger or Bob Bckland, or a Sergent Slaughter,
or a Jake Roberts or a Brett Hart. How even
Vince Russeau, Eric Bischoff, Brutus Beefcake, Jimmy Hart, any of

(23:47):
the other subjects we may be called upon to pay
tribute to during the course of the complete hul Hogan.
Any of these people we may be called on to
reflect on during this duration. If it wasn't for Hulk Cogan,
we probably wouldn't be called upon to tribute for them.
The complete Hulk Hogan will be in recognition of that fact,
they'll have to wait because Hulk goes on last brother,
and damn dude, it's got creative control, and Hulp must pose.

(24:11):
We'll do all the shows, all of them. Everything we've
done to date has stealed us for this, all of
us in the Tlef Solar System to rise to this
challenge uniquely, and when it's over for us, it'll feel
something like the completion of a life's work in every
sense of the word.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Can I get a hoof Heller my brother, brother brother?
And it's oh shit? And that wasn't exciting And it's part.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Of this uh you know, wall to wall coverage. It's
like a state funeral. You know that's going to last
a year and a half. I don't even know how
long it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I listen if it if it last, I mean, look,
I I I know a number of these things are
gonna last. I mean this this is the even obviously,
including like you know, the show list that we've come
up with is is just kind of it's just the shows,
and it's not like the episodes in between right where

(25:12):
we're going to be doing things, you know, like you know,
because if you look at it, there's there's not We
have no shows in nineteen ninety one ninety three. It
doesn't mean that there's stuff that didn't happen. Yes, that
we haven't talked about exactly, you know. So it's like
these are these are all there, this is this is

(25:32):
going to be a very a very very ambitious, lengthy
girthy thick. I don't tribute. I suppose.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Sure it's an exercise and unfinished Yes, you're fuck my life.
It's an exercise and unfinished business. And I think our
hope is that when it's done, you'll be able to
look at the TLF catalog and say, well, you know,
they did Survivors Series eighty seven. It was part of
the whole contribute, but it stands as the Survivors Series
nineteen eighty seven episode they would have done even if

(26:05):
it wasn't for Hull Co con Tribute vibes.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So that's the idea.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
There's so many shows that people have wanted us to do,
so many shows that people cross their fingers and hope
we'll get to one day. And they almost all involve
hul Cogan, they really do, so let's fucking do them, yep,
you know. And that's another reason to do the call
out for audio. It's like, you know, the hopper and
stuff people might have to look if this is one
of your shows, just send us that fucking audio, you know,
because this is going to be this is going to

(26:29):
be the mission here. This is going to be the
orienting principle, Like let's really let's really make sure that
there's nothing of significance that hull Cogan really did that
doesn't live and breathe in the TLF archives because it
makes all the sense in the world. And I can't
wait to see the twists and turns ahead because already
having to scratched the surface with our cabal of folks,
this is there's some stuff in here, man, that we

(26:51):
didn't even know we wanted to know about hul Cogan.
We didn't even know we could know about hull Cogan.
That's to come. I mean, what we know about Stirling Golden, you.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
We know it's a punchline, right, I know very little
Eich side of Jimmy Barnett calling him that, well, after
he fucking retired the gimmick you watch like Hogan and
Andre mix it up in Alabama before they ever went
to New York. Please, yes, how did he become Hulk Hogan?
We can nail it down, yes, And we have already

(27:19):
so much done that it's that much more attackable. You know,
if we if he died on year one of the show,
oh my god, we'd be like, what do.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
We fucking do? I mean? You have right?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I mean the whole just called the lapsed hul Cogan. Right, Well,
that's what it would have been. And frankly, we probably
just wouldn't have done it. We probably, no, we can't
just you know what I mean, we would have just
bounced around more and just done an episode in recognition,
like we did with so many that passed along the way.
But I think because we've done so much already, we
know that there aren't these massive mountains still to climb.

(27:49):
It's it's kind of like those. What we have to
do is document the valleys. The peaks are already in
the catalog, right, all the research is done and it's
all there. From the trial to TNH to bash it,
the each to his WWF jump from Awa to the
Super Sunday A w A stuff. It's already in there,
all the WrestleMania's, the Sid come Back all that stuff

(28:12):
or the Sid Retirement, all the movies are in the
Under the Cinemat archive on Patreon yep. So it's like,
you know what, I think this works. I think this
probably is the appropriate time to go whole hog on
Hogan one last time because we've done so many of
the huge monumental things that it actually feels attackable instead
of something that we should shy away from. You know

(28:33):
what you want from us, and we're going to give
it to you, but we're going to give it to
you exactly how we want to give it to you. Yes,
as we always have, and in that fashion, as we've
you know, turned over in our minds, the different ways
that we can rise to This particular occasion coming up
is mentioned already August third of the Comedy Village and
Times Square TLF takes the stage one more time as

(28:53):
the lapsed Fan invades Times Square and thanks to so
many members of the Solar System who we know are
going to be joining us in NYC, we thought to
ourselves this must be in recognition of what we've learned.
We can't just go forward with the show that we
planned before at Absolute Crown Jewel and the Lapsed Crown
falls out. So announcing here and we want you to

(29:16):
bring your best if you come and join us at
the Comedy Village, a vigil for Halcochen will be part
of our live noontime Sunday, August third Comedy Village Extravaganza.
Come with your memories and be prepared because I know
a lot of members of the Lapsed Fan Solar System,
in particular the Rogues Gallery Oh Yes, are going to

(29:40):
come with their deepest and most sentimental reflections as well
for losing the Hulkster and what it means to have
lost the Haltster. So a very special time expected. Tickets
still available Comedy Village dot com. We'd love to see
you there, and we're going to do it right, and
we're going to send the Halster off at least from
a live show the.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Way it ought to be done.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I think we can, yes, and already you know, of
all the Hogan shows we've already done. We'd also encourage
you to reach out and say, hey, you missed this.
You missed that because we weren't always so as anybody knows,
it's listened to us from the beginning research heavy. So
there's a lot of things that we probably could have
said about Hull Cogin and things that have come out
about hul COVID around some of these events that we

(30:23):
didn't say or we didn't commit.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
To the record. Yeah, and we're gonna you know, and
it's a convenient thing too, that we're gonna kind of
be touching upon every single year, you know, every single
year that we've done, and so it is a good
time to kind of fill in any holes in that
regard that that we might have might have missed or
anything like that.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yep, yeah, yeah, I'll be uh, I'll be perfectly happy
if the first ten years of TLF is understanding all
of the intrigue around Hull Cogan in the second half
is just getting all that whole coke and stuff rewatched
and just figuring out what it all meant. I mean,
why not that that that's that's the only thing that
feels appropriate right now. But I guess we will see
you August third, next summer with you from Times Square.

(31:08):
Of course, we'll also have our Summer Slam in twenty
twenty five, two night live call up for patrons. I
know you're looking forward to that, Boss, We're.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Going to be doing. Oh yes, wonderful doing a.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Rarely seen both co chairs in the same room live call.
It's been some time, that is true. I don't recall
the last time we've done a live call in person.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Ever. When have we done one?

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, I mean the very first one was WrestleMania thirty
four at.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Twas Oh that's true, all right, that counts, I suppose,
but not really.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
We did the one you know when you were living
in Jersey before we went out. That wasn't for WrestleMania,
but that was like NXT or whatever, the weekend of
the Hall of Fame stuff. We were in the same
room watching some of that. But no, I mean, with
the exception of the ones where we're live in the
arena trying to do live calls with screat fans everywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Right, this is a return to form and kind of
be very fascinating. This will be like be like watching
WrestleMania twenty two in the dorm room exactly, So you
want eighteen in the dorm room right on that on
that stream such as back then, Oh my god, it's
like the image changed every six seconds, so ridiculous. But

(32:15):
we still knew Hogan the Rock was a classic. We
still were going nuts. Did we did? Yes? We did?
Uh we that's insane. The best we could do. We
didn't have the ability to order cable pay per view
in the dorms back then, and we didn't. Why did
we go? Do we not know about the Hoots? I
guess we did not know about the Hoots yet? Nope, okay,
just a crying shame. But it was that run crazy

(32:38):
that we're finally going to get be able to get
into as part of the complete Hulkgan that two thousand
and two run that really solidified our our habitual wrestling
watching together there in so many ways. So we have
the whole stort of thing for that as well. But yeah,
so you want to make sure a Patreon dot com
Slash the Lapse fan is locked and loaded that you're
correct on that front, because live calls are coming, a
lot of content is coming, of course, under the cinemat's

(32:59):
back rocking. We just you know, if we're going to
do Bash at the Beach ninety four and Gene and
heenan are going to mention having done a movie called
Time Master that we have never even heard of. You
better believe that shit got fast tracked, because that's why
Under the Cinemat exists. You're damn fucking right. That's what
we do. That's how we fucking roll and listen. I'll

(33:19):
tell you what was?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
What was? What?

Speaker 1 (33:21):
What did you learn? What was the most important thing
you learned during Time Master?

Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think more than anything, it's at the Dutch angle
keeps the film interesting to watch.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
This is an example of a Dutch angle. Because of
the canted angle of the camera, it remains interesting to watch.
It remains interesting. I mean, you have no idea. If
that annoyed you, that means that means it was interesting
to begin with, of course, and it has remained interesting
thanks to the cleverness and the industriousness. Like the director

(33:51):
who you just heard from patting himself on the back.
If that annoyed you, you have no idea how much
more it could annoy you If you listen to this
entire episode of Under the Cinemat, probably the second worst
movie we've ever watched. I love it. I love it.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
The director's kids are in there. They do not belong
on a big screen at all. They are not actors.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
No, nope, nope. It's it is a it is it is.
It is a masturbatory opus. Yes correct, you know, uh,
that's what it was. And it's just it's a it's
a it's a travesty, you know, because what what what travesty?
That's a travesty. What it really came down to is this,

(34:33):
This is why it bothered me. Okay, it came down
to the fact that the you know, you look at
you look at almighty thor Okay, yes, that is obviously
an awful movie with awful visual effects, with awful performances,
with awful everything, but not a lot of money was spent.
And you can tell that a lot of money was

(34:55):
spent on this movie, not necessarily hundreds of millions of dollars,
but way more than was spend an Almighty four, no question.
And that, to me is what's so awful about it,
is that you spend that much money and you come
up with that piece of shit. But hey, you know,
that's what I'm the cinema's for.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
And Heenan and Jean's role is just fantastically fleeting. I
mean it's just yes, for no reason they're in the movie.
It's tremendous to see it. Really, I mean, there is
no reason for them to be in the movie at all.
The fact that they never mentioned it in all the
shoot interviews they did.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Later in life.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
I bet I could find anyway, I know tells you
all you need to know. You would think their one
film credit would be something that they tout. You know, yeah,
I don't even mention it. Nope, it's horrible and it's
available under the cinema. You're damn right as is since
the last time we were with you on a mailbag show.
Fucking epics like Jaws and Spotlight. I mean, folks, yes,

(35:52):
I mean, I don't know what to tell you besides like,
get on the fucking boat. Because cinemat is putting things
down history right now. We're finding wrestling connections and these
all time classics once upon a time in the West, yep.
These are what we call proofs of concept.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
And and and also I'll tell you you know, one
of one of my favorite things, specifically over the last
year has been finding people that we don't know anything
about that have a wrestling connection, that are wrestlers that
are involved in the business that they're just they're involved
in a way that you know, it's, for lack of

(36:30):
a better term, they're just not it's it's too small,
Like their contribution is important, but it's also not something
that's going to be written about right on websites and
newspapers and and to be able to find them and
talk with them and and uh, you know, from Tony
Van Silva last year to to Glenn Glenn Cain huge,

(36:54):
you know, like it's it's it's to me that it
offers a whole different perspective and opens different uh possibilities
indoors and and and and knowledge about the wrestling business
and in ways you know that at least for me,
I would never I would never have thought we would

(37:14):
have ever gone into on this show. Yes, you know,
ye like I would have never thought we would have
We would be we would be talking about the you know,
the the various British styles of professional wrestlers, useraate and
and stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, it's been such a unique way to get at
historical figures in the business that never would make sense
for the way we do the main show. But you know,
they make one movie appearance and we're on our way,
and that is the case for a lot of turn
of the century wrestlers, international wrestlers. To your point, you
just think about, like during Carni's or Forever, getting acquainted
with uh, you know, the wrestlers in those movies.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, you know, you're you're to Tanaka brother yep, I mean,
and so many that we Peter by No, it's right,
that's right, I mean, and and then again, and so
many that we didn't even we didn't even know, no clue,
you know that we didn't even we didn't even uh
hadn't even remember the wrestling bear from Octopussy, Like, what

(38:10):
the fuck, what's happening here? Okay, wrestling Bear just crazy.
It's it's it's it's so much fun. It's it's it's
so much fun.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, and it's it's great to see it really hit
astride And that's available for your Patreon dollar exclusively for
the the executive producer tier and above. Of course, we're
rocking and rolling on the pro wrestling teas and chopped
teas for us as we continue rolling out merch and
it's it was actually kind of heartening to see upon
the passing of the Hulkster focusing. You know what, I

(38:41):
need that brother shirt, Hey, I love it to Steve
and Chris who we saw grab at. The Lapsed Wrestling
Association shirt and the a w A format, of course,
are a lot of the reason we went on the
Life and Death of a w A Journey Boss was
because we just couldn't. We needed to satisfy our curiosity
about Hogan before coming of.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Course, I mean right, and seeing that that that legendary
matchup between he and Bockwinkle, you know, like that's just
it was crazy. There's so much more to available to
us now than there was ten years ago. By the way,
speaking of Hogan too, by the way, you know, I
forgot that this shirt even up, you said, Progrestling Teas

(39:19):
dot Com slash slabs fan. I'm digging that creative that's
up now, that is available, uh, you know for your purchase.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Brother, Brother, Brother, and I agree, needless to say, wow,
so very very much there for you. When it comes
to SHWAG, when it comes to items that pay unique tribute,
think of the section eleven sub paragraphe You know, yes,
these are things that say at all about Hulk that
no one even was saying brother question mark stop the boots,

(39:51):
So stop the boots sign at atn n XT one time.
I mean, folks, Oh, you're welcome, okay, Hulk, you're welcome.
Solar system, You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Hide the ball, you hide the ball shirt one too,
thro and only fly fly the flag, folks, fly the
flag t n H. I mean, it's all there, your powers.
That one, that's a weird one. Would be surprise. I'd
be surprised if we moved many units of that one.
You've been talking to Frank. It's a huge ques It's

(40:26):
I came about the parrot. But I have no fucking
idea why. Oh, I mean, just answer the question.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
That's that's exactly it what I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
So progressingts dot com slash lapsed fan for your T
shirt needs chop tease, the lapsed fan for hoodies and
all kinds.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Of other things. We got the f U n B
three sixteen shirt. Fuck you got that right.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
It's like a it's like a tour. Hulk Cogan's life
and times are our apparel stores and so much more so.
We would love to hey look forward to seeing some
folks uh in New York City wearing some lap swag
as well.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
That would be highly.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Appropriate and maybe indeed I'll I'll wear my brother the shirt.
Oh yeah, you better bring that jacket. Oh you got
to bring that fucking chop tease Varsity only the only
the the vaniest among us can yes, gobble that one
up before limited supplies ran out. That's like a fucking
that's like a piece of history in the wild, right. So, uh,

(41:18):
cameo is rocking for your for your needs the lapsed Fan,
and it's rogues gallery of characters available to you that way.
With you know so much birthdays and holidays coming up
on the holidays, you don't want to avail yourself of
our availability on on cameo. And uh, like I said,
live calls up the wazoo, including a very successful experiment

(41:40):
that we did with the a W Live calls for
the Hall in Show where Mama Sorrow joined us. Yes,
we did available still a la carte purchased per match
and thanks to all that supported that that experiment. We
really enjoyed it and feel like it really really came
together nicely. So those are still available at patreon dot
com slash lapsed Fan.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Don't forget the Terry the Terry Yaki brother shirt, Terry
Aki brother Ichi ban Ichi ban ye Ichiban. It's it's
all there, It's it's the whole hull. Thanks so much.
I I just forgot. I forgot about some of these shirts.
It's chop A Mania even like Udi Mania and truck

(42:22):
Hogan Harukamania, the Japanese yah so stupid. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
I'm sitting here. I'm looking at a canvas piece that
Chroma Slamb did of me, surrounded by a bunch of wrestlers,
including Hulk Hogan. I'm looking at a wall hanging from
Tom Fleming, the former w w f R department employee
that we had on and mural that he did for
the lobby of Titan Towers with the whole dead center.

(43:04):
I'm looking at a Hulk Hogan has bro redone to
look like Cidy dy Udy Mania courtesy of our friends
down in Florida. Gonna come see us soon. I got
a Hulk Hogan fucking uh what do you call it?
Three D printed headphone thing here with his mustache's.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
He's everywhere he is.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Bookcase, the bookcase is screaming at me with all kinds
of Hogan stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Remember remember he was. He was listed as a John
Doe in Uh, yes, the rules and we have rules,
do rule rules. I was going through some of Crova
Slamsulk shirt Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I was going through some of the Chroma Slamb's Journey
art that he's done. You've seen on our ex account
when we post like the list of episodes like we
just did for t n H. He's always got such
a wonderful like of the journey in one image and
that's and that's the trial of his life. It's Hogan
in a ring with dough rules on his shirt, striking
a pose. And I was like, oh yeah, dough rules
because he was referred to as John Doe in the

(44:12):
George Hornan trial because they wanted to avoid publicity around
him and putting things on file in court that would
create more of a media stir.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
So tremendous, So tremendous.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
It's I mean, what did you say to me before
we started recording? He said, Hulk Coogan's dead. Yeah, said
it again? Why did you say it again?

Speaker 1 (44:32):
I I because it's not real yet, was it ever.
That's a good point. That's a good point. We don't
know if he's really dead. Just remember that could mean
his death. I meant justice his life real, but his
life real. We don't know is his death reeal, We
don't know? You know.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
The thing I know from Hulk his life is a
series of runs and run ins. We're about to embark
on one more run for the hulksterre here with.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
The and what about what about? You know? Maybe he's
on that island that we always use to talk about, brother,
at Hawaiian Island where you know people go when they
quote unquote die brother, brother, brother, May you be there?
I don't know? You tell me I know? Brother? Great point.

(45:23):
So what the fuck is up?

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Huh?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
What you know about it? Nothing? Nothing down. Let's go
to the mail bag. What do you say?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Let's do it last time for the Holster to begin
with at least this is the summer mail bag, and
we'll be going through as we go and give shout
outs to folks that we know will be joining us
at a comedy village as well, who've been kind enough
to let us know, like count on me pal, they
they answered the bell as far as sending a little
confirmation our way. So Chris, I want to thank you
very much and look forward to uh, he's coming to

(45:55):
his third live show, wow, expecting it to be a
doozy Dave Murray. This is our practice on these meil
back shows. We also want to thank folks who have
since the last time we mailbagged, pledged to us on
Patreon and decided that we're worth actual money. So thank
you very much to us, to Dave Murray for his pledge.
Shout out to Austin who's going to be taking a
bus from the DC area to make the show. These

(46:18):
folks are not going anywhere near MetLife. Okay, that's what
I love. That's what I fucking love.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Okay, I mean, oh, so Ww's coming, So we'll do
the show and we'll get the fans like well, actually
most of them are just coming to see us.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
I know, it's hard to believe. That's the fucking truth.
Andrew on Patreon in light of SummerSlam ninety one being
added to the vault, Yeah, this WW vault thing, we got.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Our eye on that. Okay, can we talk about that
real quick?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
I mean, oh, I don't know where they found the
person behind that or the people behind that, but you, sir,
have our fucking endorsement, and that's hard to say, because
we you know, I set a high bar for.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
That ship, and you have our attention. Best way to
put it all right, like we are all these great
American bashes, fucking the I just they have a Sunday
Night Slam show. Those shows have not been available before.
Sunday Night Slam has not been available before the network.
What the fuck? They're getting dirty?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
They're getting dirty and LATAs SummerSlam ninety one are very
first show being added to the vault. In hul Cogan's passing,
I re listened to episode one. You two start the
death toll early on because ten dead is a big number.
Ten dead, that's a big number. God, they're ten dead
in that show, on that show. Yes, there were ten
dead when we did it.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
You think about it.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Now, he says, gentlemen, I must report that in July
of twenty twenty five, some eleven years later, we now
stand at twenty three dead. Oh no, we have added
Butch Virgil, Animal, Bobby Heenan, Renee Gulay, Pat Patterson, Howard Finkel,
Roddy Piper, gene Oakerland, General Adnan, Colonel Mustafa sid Justice,

(47:57):
and Hulk Hogan to the list. By my account, he
writes there now officially more dead and than alive from
the Slams ninety one. Whoa I repeat, he writes, more
dead than alive. The one thing we must hold on
too in these times is that the warlord could be
the last man standing, God.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Willing, God willing. Can do you believe that? That's no,
I can't believe that. Actually, that's hard. That's hard to
hate to hear.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
It just never never occurred to me when we started
doing this that, yeah, we might do it through everybody leaving.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It just seemed like they were timeless and we'll just
revisit it and it'll be great. Are they ever gonna die?

Speaker 3 (48:39):
No?

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Why would they. Let's get to what Jeff had to say,
Boss if you can. Hey, guys, I'll get to Hogan
in a minute. But a quick thought on Gene and Heenan.
This recent mini journey has been just as much about
them as Hogan. Well, Hogan brought you in the door.
The humor of those two kept you hooked in those
weeks in those week two week programs build the built

(49:01):
to the next time you saw a Hulk on TV.
Gene and Bobby were like your uncle and grandpa, like
when your dad would take you to breakfast and meet
with the men of the family without mom and grandma around.
The jokes were a little dirty, a little crass, but
never anything too far. You snickered because you got the
joke and were allowed to laugh without having to explain
how you knew that joke was funny. It's true. It's

(49:23):
a good point. I can never I don't know, I
never really got. I don't think I had breakfast. And
I would have never had breakfast my grandfather and my
dad alone because that just would have been okay, that
would have been awful. That went awful. My grandfather was
much nicer to his grandchildren than he was to his own.
Kids understood so like it just would not have happened.

(49:44):
It would never happened. But I appreciate the sentiment. I
definitely had moments where my I can remember something like
the early dirty jokes my dad would share, like just
you know, it's like, oh, my shit, like you you
understand that. In my mind, it was like it was
like it wasn't like how do I know that, It's
like how.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Do you know that?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Old man?

Speaker 3 (50:06):
You know?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
But yeah, that's a that's a funny, that's a funny say. Anyway,
So on to Hogan. I don't remember a day where
I wasn't a Hulk of maniac. Based on your conversations,
I assume I am two or three years younger than
you both. I don't and remember anyone sitting me in
front of the TV and saying, this is wrestling. This
is Hulk Hogan. He is the good guy. Just always

(50:28):
seemed like wrestling was on TV and Hulk was my favorite.
It's strange because my parents weren't wrestling fans. My dad
was very much the I'm not I'm not watching this
Fike stuff type. But I always remember having the Hulk
Hogan wrestling buddy, the Hogan l JN, the Hogan has
bro hell. There's photos of my fourth birthday and the

(50:49):
Hulk Hogan cake, And like you, I know, I watched
Hogan and Warrior as a kid, but I have no
idea if it was live or VHS someone or VHS
someone put on for me. But I'll never forget how
strange it was to see the face paint worn off
Warriors face. That's it, you know that. That's probably one
of the most unsettling things as a wrestling fan when

(51:13):
you're a kid when you know that a wrestler has
face paint and then you see it kind of chip
away throughout the course of the match, and instead it's
like no, no, no, no, no no no, why yeah,
why are you doing that? Didn't one time and wrestle
mamia say like, is he losing his skin? Like you
didn't understand that it was paint? Yes? Right, oh awful.

(51:35):
I continue to love wrestling in the Bread era. However,
like most, I became lapsed by ninety five ninety six.
But baseball was as much to blame as anything else.
My summers were devoted into playing baseball. But when I
got back to school in nineteen ninety six, the kids
were talking about WCW. I knew WCW, would never really
watch it. However, Raise or Ramone and Diesel were now

(51:55):
partners with Hulk Hogan, and they were bad guys and
they use their real names. I don't know about Hollywood
Terry Blaya. That wouldn't Yeah, I understand that I was
hooked again. I had to see this. That's actually fucking funny. Hollywood,
Hollywood Blaya, it's pretty awesome. Instead of Bollywood it's Balaya.

(52:20):
Would well, oh, my god, No, Bollywood blaya. That's funny. Yeah,
that's fucking funny. Bollywood Bulaya. Okay, there's a shirt. I'm
gonna do that one I had. I had to see this.
Hold on, What is fuck's going on? Here? Oh? Sorry?
A program came up and all of a sudden just

(52:40):
said I'm closing now, just letting you know that I'm
You've ignored me long enough, so I'm going to close. Okay,
thanks program. For better or worse. I was hooked on
wrestling through two thousand and two ish, when life, dating,
and a social life was more important than continuing to
watch wrestling. I often wonder if it was healthy for

(53:00):
me to be a wrestling fan, for any of us
to be wrestling fans. It's not. No, that's an easy one. Okay,
it's not healthy. It's it's a it's a it's a
it's a drug addiction. It's a bad addiction. It's it's
gonna listen, Being a wrestling fan is going to cause
you way more harm than good. When being frustrated by

(53:22):
the product makes you watch it more, that's when you know,
right exactly. The millennials who didn't watch wrestling weren't conditioned
to terms like jobber, mid Carter, main eventor preserving your spot.
It definitely had a negative effect, as I often worried
about not being a Maine venter in real life, when
most well adjusted people weren't worried about this kind of

(53:44):
dumb Carnie ship. You gotta have a little bit of
that Carnie in yet I wasn't gonna come in Andy,
Let's fucking go. Jim knows, Jeene fucking knows knows.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Exactly how to handle it. I want you to know
that when we did the Patterson What's up? Boss, that
was him. That was when we recorded Pat Patterson himself
saying that is you saying brother?

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Not because kind of sounds like him. He kind of
sounds like him for real. That's why I did it out.
Oh my god, I don't think he's ever said brother
like that, like just that calmly.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
That's from the Wonderful Crumbslam mash up where he goes
omelets knobs, omelets knobs, Brother, what brother, dude?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
There some vegies of those almost dude, excuse me, he
said a lot there, which was a little almostude. What
you put some veggies in those almost dude? Knobs Veggies brother.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
And we asked Brian Kobbs to his face, what Hulk
likes for breakfast? Because of all this ship.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
That's the kind of thing. I mean, poor fucking crippled
Brian Knobs. Okay, let's think about that. What kind of
podcast is this? Remember that when we asked him that question.
Just tell us what he likes for. I don't know
what do you ask me this for. It's a culinary
it's a culinary podcast.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
We do a podcast about what wrestlers eat. That's a
great that'd be a great like excuse stastic.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Food question, would it? Would we we specialize in wrestler cuisines.
Is when you think about the Ahmed Johnson interview we did,
what do you remember? I just remember sausage and cheese,
sausage and cheesy from fucking seven to eleven sitting on
his desk there, Oh my god, Johnson, what a trip.

(55:45):
And of course meat sauce. You know you can't that's
it now, the great sauce, sausage and cheese and omelets.
There we go with that. That's the name of that's
the name of the wrestler Wrestlers Eating podcast. Right, there
was a corner. Before Hogan died, I thought to send
you an email asking the question quote, does it used

(56:06):
to be better? Include Turner employees being embarrassed to sell
ad space during wrestling? Yes, yes it does, Yes, it does. Okay.
The fact that they're okay with that is not Is
this not okay? All right? Like they need to be
miserable wanting to sell ad space to pro wrestling like

(56:27):
I want to talk to the people. Yes, Oh my god,
are they really bringing this ship? Oh my god? Our
number one program is what wait wait, I'm sorry. You
know you said this aw thing. I thought it was
something legit. It's it's it's like that fake wrestling. Is

(56:50):
that WrestleMania stuff? You're bringing WrestleMania to Turner Again, that's
a way to put it. Well, we are about for
the audience, but they don't actually own WrestleMania. But that's
a whole different thing. Oh you get I can give
you this this that my mom one point asked a

(57:14):
question about ask me a question how she didn't understand
that WrestleMania was a show owned by w WH Like
she thought WrestleMania was like a brand essentially and that

(57:35):
and that you know, oh, did did does oh does
vins mick Man work for WrestleMania? Oh my god, Yes,
while it was gonna take a long time. Mom Oh,
it was amazing. Does it used to be better? Include
sponsors in mainstream media avoiding wrestling like it was some
kind of disease, Yes, yes it does. Those are the

(57:59):
days we're find for. Yes. Hogan is the story of
America Ronald Reagan to today. The faux patriotism of the
of the nineteen eighties, followed by the shades of gray
of the nineties that spilled over into the two thousands,
the reality show era, and the damage of that era
we still feel today. The quote everyone has a camera

(58:19):
era hubbada, Oh yeah, hubbada, that's all he puts down
in parenthes. Hbbada has to be out of retirement, hubbout
who That followed the quote everyone needs to react to
the headlines era, followed by this trash fire we stare
into on a daily basis. Go, Jeff, Yeah, I'm jealous

(58:41):
of the adult fan who sat in the crowd at
WrestleMania three, the fan who only knew that Andrea the
Giant was a character who turned on Hulk Hogan and
now he asked to pay for what he did. He
didn't know their real names, their real lives, whether they
were shitheads or not. He went to WrestleMania, had a
great time, and didn't think about his life for a
few hours. He wasn't required to have an opinion or

(59:03):
feel guilty for supporting these awful people. I feel warmness
to my childhood again when I think about Hulk. But
you cannot reflect on the fact that one of the
last images of him healthy is a Donald Trump's shirt.
Damn fucking right. This is again. This is the conundrum.
This is the conundrum. Okay, you can't watch the tribute

(59:26):
and not think about Triple H and Stephanie working with
RFK Junior, a man whose health policies are making it
harder for future patients to survive what Triple H survived
with his heart. You can't think of friends who are
going to be negatively affected by Linda McMahon. Also to note,
I don't really spend time on social media or read it,

(59:47):
but the people sitting around waiting to gatekeep other people's
mourning is fucking gross. Yeah. I agree with that too,
So Hulk. I've been listening to the Laps fan. Oh
so Hulk. I've been listening to a LAPS fan for
more than ten years, and every penny I've given you
is worth it. From the beginning, what I've loved about
this podcast is how it unlocked those memories of the

(01:00:09):
birthday where I got my Hasbro ring and a huge
collection of figures. How my grandma would call my mom
in the summer to tell her to turn on Regis
and Kathy Lee so I could see the wrestlers who
got interviewed, and how I love this goofy form of entertainment.
Thanks for everything. I can't wait to hear this mail box.
Thank you Jeff for getting things started with some smoke.

(01:00:30):
Damn right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah, that's a lot of that. A turnover of eras,
the turnover of the nature of the country all it's
all there in hul Cogan Caleb Hamilton, we want to
thank you very much for bumping up your pledge and
sure hope you enjoy the vip tire on Patreon. Matt Anderson,
welcome to the executive producer tear. Do enjoy under the
cinemat and all else what privileges you too? Yep, Andrew

(01:00:53):
is a good point in Patreon he writes, this is
another part of the reason why you should pledge. I mean,
some of the smartest, most insightful comments you'll see on
the topics to Jore the pay per views we live
call everything are on our Patreon feed. You've got to
see the comments people put underneath these audiophiles. He writes,
I invite you to imagine a world where most things
stay the same, but Jeane and Heenan stay. Jeane is

(01:01:14):
interviewing the Rock on Raw. Heenan is on the call
instead of Lawlor. Forget it, what are we talking? I mean,
that's just that I can't. I can't even I can't
you fathom I can't. It's it's it's it's like what.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Welcome back to Row. I don't mind telling you, I'm
here with my God. Can you imagine.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
Wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the boys need

(01:02:09):
their candy? It's the lapsed fan. He's the lapsed fan

(01:02:45):
Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnasio and JP Sorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Just so's the point that you've been made several times
like all right, coming up? I got stone Cold Steve
alson on a hotline.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
We know Hogan made it feel like it's supposed to feel,
but he was on T once every two months. Yeah, okay, Yes,
it was the stick men like Gene and Bobby and
Gorilla and the rest, Vince, Jesse, Piper perfect, these people
that would be the through line. They would be the
scene setters, they would be the soundtrack Lord al Sean Mooney.

(01:03:18):
I'm not saying everyone was great at their job. I'm
just saying that we could receive everything on kind of
an equal level. Things were all Everything to us was
interesting to a point because those people were the voices
of it. Yeah, gave so many wrestlers had starts in
terms of getting our attention because it was the same
voice that proclaimed magic when hul Cogan part of the

(01:03:40):
curtain or sprung into action via Jesse Ventura or Bobby
Heenan hyperventilating at the presence of a Hull Cogan. Paul
writes on Patreon co Chairs, I don't believe you've covered
Clash the Champions twenty six heen and ww debut. Yes,
we were wondering about that during our batch of the
Beach ninety four show, right, But he makes a good point.
We may have played the audio shared in this episode was.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Well, it was also with the time Time Master as well,
because I've played the class right and I didn't well,
I wasn't sure if we'd covered it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
It was while covering Suberbral four, which was Heenes's first
w stub pay per view, that we touched on and
probably played the audio of that debut. And Ram Mansou,
thank you very much for increasing your pledge. Appreciate the
vote of confidence. Matt wants us to know that what
we should do for the Hogan Tribute is redo the
first nine manias. It's the only Hogan story we haven't
done properly. Well, I think in some ways we can

(01:04:28):
kind of do that because yeah, I don't think people
want us to deep dive the three hour plus broadcasts again,
but there probably is some things when going systematically year
through yearth with life and times of Hull Code and
that we can say in and around WrestleManias. We were
just talking about this, think about Saturgnite's main event and
how so many of those set up WrestleMania's right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
You know, there's a lot of stuff and in the
main event shows as well, you know, the live Friday
night broadcast on NBC. You know there's a lot of
stuff that we that we can we can use to
help fill in blanks in regards to those and not necessarily.
I've never I've never thought, even even shows as far
back as summer some ninety one, I've never thought to myself, Oh,

(01:05:10):
we should go back and redo it. Redoing it? I
don't think that doesn't work for me?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Brother, No, no, not quite, not quite in the and
then this is a way to kind of do that
without having to literally read these shows. Right, I think
what will be will be great is and I'm realizing
this as I talk. I probably should have realized this earlier,
but it would be great if folks could just share
us their top ten shows, like what are the ten
pay per views or events that could be television specials

(01:05:35):
that we absolutely must give the traditional lapse treatment to
as part of this journey. And that is to say
shows we haven't done before top ten because we've come
up with a list of how many was it like
thirty or something like that. Yeah, but that's just a
spitballing going chronologically through what we know we haven't done.
But we want to put it on you with much
more restrictions. We want you to be the ones to
decide instead of just boiling the ocean, if you really

(01:05:57):
had to edit down the absolute essential, whole cocin, what
are the shows that we haven't done that we should
deep dive in traditional format? That I think is a
key part of charting our course here. So among the
many things we're asking you to send to the lapsed
fan at gmail dot com are those lists, and we'll
compare and contrast them. Of course, we're not going to
commit to doing any one person's list, but if we
see echoes across the list's boss, I think it's pretty

(01:06:19):
safe to say yes, that show should be on it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Agreed, b C.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
We want to thank you very much for your pledge. Meyermania,
thanks very much for all your support in your recent
increase in pledge. Dorian writes on Patreon, it's part of
me that doesn't want this episode to end. He's talking
about what else Bash at the Beach nineteen ninety four Ye,
in the wake of Hulkogan's passing. We've got a whole
other round of comments on that episode because the new
poignancy brought to it, he writes. Once it's over, there

(01:06:44):
will never be an episode that will feel like this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Again.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Yeah, the death toll will take a long time to
get used to with Hogan in it. Yes, yep, have
you adjusted? No, Mike, I mean listen, can you imagine?
Can you imagine like I mean, the the first show
get when we get to the first show on this
Hogan tribute that includes a death toll, He'll be on it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's weird. It's weird, it's it's
it's borderline unacceptable.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
I think we'd be comfortable by now, but we're actually
entering the least comfortable phase we've ever been in. Yeah,
oh yeah, Mike writes subject line hoof Hey, coach chairs
or hope you and yours are doing well. Good luck
with August third and with how you proceed following the
death of all Cogan. I'm sure you'll give myself and
the rest of the LAPS fan solar system the best
content tributing terry that is humanly possible. That said, you

(01:07:39):
have welcomed ideas, and wilst I don't think my ideas
are going to touch what YouTube geniuses will create for
us lapsed fans, here goes eighties WWF. Crazy as this sounds,
I feel like there is no need to go into
too much detail into peak Hogan fame. TLF is, in
and of itself, a Hogan tribute, always has been, and
will continue to be one going forward. Every time you
revisit the next set of three Colisseum tapes, you will
teach us more about the Holtster. At that time, you

(01:08:00):
will also still have at least four eighties pay per
views to Deep Dive, not to mention Saturday Night's main
event shows you can use to teach us more about
Terry Hulk Cogan. I just think, is the next few
years of TLF unfold, you could honor this part of
his career life just by doing TLF business as usual. Yeah,
I think that's what we're saying. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Yeah. It's kind of it'll feel.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Like we're just picking shows like we always do, but
we'll just bias shows that Hulk Cogan was a part of,
which is a lot of the ones that people want
us to do anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
He then writes seventies Slash two thousand and two WWFE
run with the above in mind, I suggest rewatching key
moments from No Way Out two thousand and two T
and H style. It works when you both watch matches
and segments during the episode. You've done it for Terry,
Sid Virgil, et cetera, and it was mostly how you
structured TNH. The only other thing I could think of
is covering some seventy stuff that you may have access to.
Don't know if you have his Heel run original match
with Andrea et cetera. Well, we'll see about that. Awa.

(01:08:50):
I know you both love the Aaba Journey way back
when and it started with Hogan leaving. Perhaps there are
a few big matches you may have access to that
could be good to be included.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
We you know, I did stumble upon something. Oh really,
if you have mischief in your voice, I do, I do.
I mean, I don't mind telling you right now that
I forgot that I downloaded a while back. Ah an
aw a tape from nineteen ninety the Best of Hull Cogan.
Oh yeah, so we've got a lot of We've got
some Hull Cogan stuff in there, like at least an

(01:09:19):
hour's worth of Hull Cogan and stuff that, you know,
probably stuff we haven't seen before. Probably yep, I'm sure
they have the Bachwinkle match, but other stuff we haven't
seen before.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
You know, I know that exact tape, and I'm trying
to remember where along the way we incorporated that. It
was probably the I know what it was. It was
when we did the nineteen eighty four Genuarly ninetety four
Madison Square Garden Show where he beats Iron Cheek.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
For the title.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Yeah, went through that tape a bit and try to,
you know, pick out some of the the last vestiges
of Hull Comania and in AWA because I know that
Ye Eric Bischoff in a green screen, right is the MC.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
For thatsh Off right right, It's like it's it's crazy.
It's well, it's just crazy. How it's It's like, it's
it's it's it's it's wild because obviously they can do it,
they own the footage. How they were just trying to
cash Oh yeah, ride.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
The wave because you know, somewhere in his mind, vern's
like I made the fucking guy because the first time
anyone said Hull Camania he was in the A w A.
I mean, the first whole Camania t shirt was in
the AWA. To deal with that reality, I mean, they
put him in the ring and he was just so
over as a baby face after Rocky three, that their
original plans to have him be a mount monster heel
managed by Johnny Valiant went right out the fucking window

(01:10:30):
within a matter of months because after Rocky three he
was just too fucking over. He was too the fans
wanted him to be a good guy just so badly
that they just went with it, and thus the whole
coach and we all know was born. He writes, simply,
put on, like Sid Terry Funk, Virgil Sabu would Hall,
I don't think you need to keep doing show after
show until you feel he's fully tributed. I feel like
you'd be tributing him for several years to come. Yeah,

(01:10:52):
it'll feel ograntic in that way. I know exactly what
it means, perhaps until the cast comes to an end
years down the line. Thanks for indulging my message is
ever Thank you for the asked. You guys are a gift. Well,
thank you, Mike, thanks for your support and for taking
the time to write in some very insightful stuff there.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Nick.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Thank you very much for joining that mote tier for
only the bravest among us, and we understand it's a plunge. Sure,
what a way to express support for what we do.
And what a way to say, you know what this
actually can be if you come real enough, you actually
can make money. You know, like it's not just some
like bullshit like you know, crying for penny stuff. It's like, no,

(01:11:29):
you guys are doing something that deserves to be compensated
like any high level production. And that's that's what's up,
and that's the proof, and that's why people to this
day just knocking our doors out of nowhere like hey,
I saw, yeah, I know it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
You saw you saw the Patreont number. I know its
just saw Nick.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Thank you very much for your pledge. Welcome to the
Executive Producer tier, my friend. We appreciated Morgan Cameron. A
lot of these folks jumped up because of the call
we made available, the call between the Boss and I
sharing the news of all covens passing. That available exclusively
in the MOTE tier. So we want to thank the
the new arrivals there. So that's Morgan included. Thank you
very much for your momp. Jacob had a great email.

(01:12:06):
We're going on and on about what we should do
about Hogan, and we put a next post out there
and an Instagram post asking people what we should do.
Jacob just wrote, you should do an episode about hul Cogan. Thanks,
I think we got that covered great.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
I think that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Tyler writes, I'm sure you're inundated with emails, so I'll
keep this brief. I feel Backlash O two needs to
be part of the Hogan coverage. Something tells me, Boss,
when we get those top ten lists, Backlash OH two
is going to be on most of them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
I think it's going to be very, very, very popular.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
There's nothing more hul Cogan than the way he came
back into that company and within a month Triple H
was like losing to him. Triple H, the guy who
could manufacture any circumstance he wanted to stay on top,
the ultimate manipulator of circumstance, had to fall and pray
at the knees of the Holkster. So satisfying to see
happen in so many ways. He has to win that

(01:12:56):
Stris app one final time. Tyler writes, Also, one show
I've wanted needed for years now. Yeah, man, every show
people have needed is going to be in this ho contribute.
I think, right, I really have our time thinking about
one of the real big we've needed this one for
year shows that won't fit into what we're about to do.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
I mean, and it's funny again, like you said, it's
it's it's interesting how all these shows are Hull Hogan.
It's about Hull Cogan. It's not really you know, there
aren't really other shows that people need that aren't Hogan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, because that's what they need about it is yep,
as they know us at Hogan works, and so they
just want all of it, you know, and we can
only get to so much as the years have turned.
Paul E cautiously writes on Patreon, Lap serendipity. Indeed, while
if anyone was deserving a full journey as Hogan, the
nineteen ninety four Bash at the Beach episode is a
great sendoff for the Hulkster, and the chairman did an

(01:13:54):
admirable job without knowing the eventual weait this episode would carry.
I look forward to the decade long retrospective there about
to unleash and unsuspecting but completely prepared Solar system. That's
another thing. It's nice to know bosses, we know they're
ready for it, you know, we know we've earned their
trust by doing things like this for other wrestlers in
the past or other subjects in the past, we would
I think we probably would have been a little hesitant

(01:14:14):
in those early days if Hogan died in twenty fifteen,
to turn the whole thing over to a Hogan Michi.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
I also think too, you know. You know what what
I think also helps is is I think why these tributes.
I think why we feel comfortable doing tributes that can
go long, forever and forever or for whatever need, you know,

(01:14:43):
like doing you know what six months of Terry Funk.
The reason we can do that is because we also
have so much you know, already already locked and loaded
in the chain totally from the past, you know. Yeah.
So it's like we've we we built up credibility, We've
built up confidence, and so it it can you know, it'll.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
I mean I get motivated to climb a mountain, but
I get even more motivated to fill in you know
what I mean, things that happen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Oh took care of that, to care of that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
You know, it's like the huge peaks the valleys are
now about to be agressed. As I said, absolutely, I
look forward to the decade long retrospective. Prepared Jack's closing statement,
Paul writes of quote, Hulk Hogan is still Hulk Cogan
and everything is going to be all right. Was perfect,
that is in fact the last thing I said.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
That's right. That's freaking crazy that he died after that. Yeah, unreal. Well,
we have a retrospective here from Gareth. This one is
so great.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
This would have been one that really would have been
lovely to land in our mailbox. As we went to
the tail end of TNH, we're going along boss and
we realize, my god, Hulk Cogan's last match was on
some untelevised UK swing that they did in the Blue
White Impact Wrestling days. I just can't where he just
came out and you know, his T shirt and wind

(01:16:06):
pants and sneakers and you know, technically participated in a match,
and that that was the final wrestling match of Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
Ish.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
It's part of why we had that kind of half melancholy,
half celebratory feeling when he died, because we did ten
H and we know that he did not go out
as Hull Cogan should have gone out in the wrestling business,
not even close.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
I mean yeah, I mean again again, it's like they
don't let themselves do that. Apparently, not they don't allow themselves.
I mean it's also it is it is hard. There
aren't many people. There aren't many. Jerry Seinfeld's right, there

(01:16:56):
aren't many, No, really are you know, David where Letterman.
You know these guys who who who say, you know what,
now is the time and they have the balls actually
followed through with it because you look at you look
at actors like even Sean John Stewart came back for more.
He had a great send off. But even then, like
think about people who retire a lot of times, they

(01:17:17):
retire against Sean Connery after a movie tanks, right, you know,
Gene Hackman, same thing, Like, here are these legendary actors
who you want to almost go out, you know, on
an Academy Award type movie, a movie where they win
an Oscar or a movie that makes billions and billions

(01:17:38):
of dollars. But they don't. They go out when something sucks.
That's when they're kind of in the like that's it's
it's the it's it's ballsy to actually go out on
a high note. Yeah, you know, it's balls y. Yeah,
because you don't overstay. You're welcome, and that's a very

(01:17:58):
difficult thing. To get right right anyway, Dear co Chairs,
the idea of having come on board just a little
too late has always been an overwhelmingly overwhelming feeling for
me when it comes to wrestling. Being around the same
age as the co chairs, wrestling was always on my radar,
although too young to remember barely anything as it was

(01:18:19):
canceled in nineteen eighty eight. My grandmother was a huge
fan of World of Sport British Wrestling on TV. Another
thing we've done a decent amount of Under the Cinemat,
only because of Under the Cinemat, only because of Under
the Cinemat and Pat Roach, you know, specifically, if I
remember correctly, he was on on the last episode of

(01:18:43):
the Wrestling I think we you know, and he talks
about it in his book and he did a speech
and everything, and I think we played it. We remember this, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we played an interview. Yeah, but a bit of And
I was aware of the existence of WWE from the
snippets i'd managed to catch on my aunt's house as

(01:19:03):
they had Sky Television, but try as I did, my
parents would not get us that prized satellite dish, so
WW on free TV and whatever tapes I could beg
Borrow and Steal were my only exposure as the final
as the final years of w hul Comania war on,
Yet everyone knew that Hulk Hogan was the man, and finally,

(01:19:26):
around my ninth birthday in May nine ninety three, had happened.
Oh man, I feel like I know where this is going.
My parents were going to get Sky TV, yes, mainly
as my dad wanted to watch Premier League football soccer,
but it didn't matter. Having stayed overnight in my aunt's
house to watch Wrestlmania nine live, Oh my god, it
was finally happening. I could watch WWETV every single week

(01:19:47):
from home, also taping every single show to watch again
at my grandparents' house with my grandfather, who maintained that
wrestling was a shoot until the day he died in
two thousand and one. I don't care the way you
say over that. All right, I'm gonna tell you right now, Yes,

(01:20:08):
it's fucking real. Those stupid cunts over in America telling
you it's not real. It's fucking real. It can't possibly
be real. It's real. Niceably, I love that. But as

(01:20:30):
soon as I hit Gold, Disasters struck, wrestling was rapidly
losing interest my school friends, who were all swapping wrestling
stickers and having schooler discussions about SummerSlam and Surviversaries ninety two.
We're moving on by night. By SummerSlam nineteen ninety three,
I was barely the only kid still watching, and even worse,
the stars I was so desperate to watch were disappearing

(01:20:52):
week by week. Who the fuck are men on a mission?
Why is the MOUNTI now called Jacques? Where the real
stars like Warrior Gune? And why isn't Macho Man wrestling anymore?
But it was Hulk, but it was okay. Hulk was
the WWE champion and the rest I could live with.
We know the rest, and Hulk was gone by SummerSlam.

(01:21:14):
That's the funny thing. I just love that he's not
gone by SummerSlam. To me, No, he's gone by King
of the RG. Oh yeah, but because he's in the UK,
that's the last summer but not him. Yep, exactly. The
house shows they were promoting on Sky against Yokozuna led
to nothing on TV. Yep, Hulk popped up in WW
but it wasn't the same. Yes, it was better than nothing,

(01:21:35):
but this wasn't what I wanted. Even if me and
Jeene and Heenan were there to keep him company. Over
here in Europe, the steroid trial didn't make the headlines
at all, so it was all so confusing. I wanted
Hulk in the WWE. God damn it. I wanted it
to be nineteen ninety two, WW Forever the stars I'd
been deprived of all under the WW banner, just like

(01:21:58):
I've longed for the nineties. Trump trundled on and I
tried to catch up on the nineteen eighties and very
early nineties stuff that I'd missed by way of borrowing
or buying whatever Colisseum video releases I could get my
hands on. Traveling to watch WB or even WW wrestling
shows wasn't an option growing up in rural Wales. Traveling

(01:22:22):
to England's big cities just wasn't something you did. But
as we know, by twenty ten, Hogan was in TNA,
the promotion I've been most closely following since the mid
two thousands. Man, you poor son of a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
That's why TNA was so big in the UK. It
was a chance for this generation to experience a lot
of those stars.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Yeah yuess So as adults and with Hulk on the
poster and now working and in a position of having
disposable income, it was a no brainer. But little did
I know that a house show at Manchester Arena in
January twenty twelve was to be the Big Man's final
match ever. Attending the show with a friend having only

(01:23:09):
expected a Hogan promo, the show wore on, but come
mean of end time, still no appearance. Was he going
to even show up? A six man tag? And I
of the Tigers started to play as hulk Amnia was
displayed on the big screen. Fuck. No one had seen

(01:23:35):
Hulk come out to I of the Tiger since around
eighty six. I was a kid again. Never before or
since have I regressed so much to the extent that
I was a nine year old kid again, transfixed on
the TV as Hulk Hogan waltzed out with his disgusting
black eye at WrestleMania. I mean, think about this too, Okay,

(01:23:58):
remember remember.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
What was it?

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
What WrestleMania thirty five? Thirty five? The one I went
to in uh yeah, the last one went to Yeah? Okay,
And I and I you know, the first match we
know is gonna be They're going to open with uh
with Seth and Brock, and I decided I didn't care
that much, and I'm gonna go get my kid some

(01:24:27):
some you know, a shirt or a toy or something
like that. But then as I'm walking, as I'm walking
down from our nosebleed seats, and I leave the arena
for two seconds, and then all of a sudden, Real
American comes blaring on and I run back up to
our seat so we can record that ship because I

(01:24:49):
knew and I'm not gonna miss hul Kogan in WrestleMania,
no fucking way, exactly exactly. I mean, that's why listen
if you listen to our Saturday Night's main event coverage
from this past whatever it was December, you listen to that.

(01:25:16):
Were we not excited at first to see Hulk Cocain?
Oh yeah, the moment that the music hit, we scream,
we go crazy, and then it slowly dawns on you that,
oh wait a minute, this is the same guy who's
a piece of shit. It's weird. It's a very weird thing.
Because again, this is this is this is the this

(01:25:37):
is the problem with being a wrestling fan because it
is hard. It is hard at times to differentiate the
man from the character, or the woman from the character
or whatever, and that is that that's that's the that's

(01:25:59):
the that's a huge issue, huge issue. Well, so many
of them are the same and so many of them
are not. The thing is. But the thing is, though,
is that you can forgive the character. The character can
be forgiven pretty easily. The human being behind it. Not
always because the character you know, you love or you

(01:26:22):
hate based on what they do in the ring on TV.
You don't judge per se the character like you do
the human being. I'm not gonna judge. Listen, the Whole
Cogan character that I grew up with on on on
as a kid in late ninety one and early ninety two,

(01:26:44):
he didn't have sex at all. So there's no way
there would be a sex tape because he's an a
sexual individual. Okay, no wrestler had sex. In my mind,
like I didn't even think about it. And there was
no way that Whole Cogan was a racist, and there
was no way that that Whole Cogan would support anybody

(01:27:05):
who would destroy the or try to destroy the country.
But that's not Terry Burlett, that's Hull Cogan. That's the
character hul Cogan that that's that's the weird, that's that's
that again, that's the problem. That is the problem because
because they're so because we because that they're that they

(01:27:30):
there was such that that blending of the fiction and
the reality in wrestling, there that there has been because
you got to begin. You know, they insist on on
on portraying everything as a shoot. It's why you can't.

(01:27:50):
It's why you know, you can watch say, okay, Star Wars,
or you can watch a James Bond movie and you
don't have to. You don't even I don't even know
the politics of the guys who played James Bond. I
don't know. I just know James Bond. I don't know
you know, Sean con I mean outside of his tex

(01:28:12):
stuff that we've talked about, you know, but in terms
of you know, I mean, we know, we know, but
it's like I don't whether I agree, it doesn't get
in the way of my enjoyment of James Bond. James
Bond is James Bond. I'm gonna love the movie. That's
that's the difference, is that they blurred the lines so

(01:28:37):
much that it is hard for wrestling fans. It's hard,
and it's even harder for people who aren't wrestling fans.
Two understand why wrestling fans, no matter where they are
on the political social spectrum, why they can be why

(01:29:03):
they'd want to pay tribute to this person Because we're
not paying tribute to Terry Blea. We're paying tribute to
the character of Hulk Hogan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
And to have fans decided us whether they can be
two different people, and the fans decided in his case
they can't be. If the fans don't boo when he
comes out as Hull Cogan. After all this, we would
be perfectly within our rights to receive him as we
receive James Bond instead of Sean Connery. Yep, it's that
live audience component that makes the difference.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
I think of what he allen but it's but it's
also but it's also too because think about it like this,
James James Bond wouldn't come out and support Donald Trump.
Well no, I mean he's not a real person. Hulk
Cogan is not a real person. Well we know that
for sure, But you know what I mean, Like again,

(01:29:52):
this is this is where the problem is is that
is that is that people when you see Terry Blea
out on the campaign with you know, I'm at that
at the fucking Republican National Convention with fucking Donald Trump,
which just like we saw the rock at the Republican
National Convention in two thousand, right right, when you see

(01:30:15):
these guys there, it becomes even more confusing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
It doesn't because the conventions buying the character, right, and
they're willing to sell the character. Like it would be
the same exact thing. On the other way, like if
if James you also wouldn't see James Bond come out
for the Democratic National Convention for abomba, that'd be just absurd,
Like what does James Bond being on the stage.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
It would it would be completely absurd.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Like Trump, Trump is one of those introduce He's one
of those gimmicks. You know, there is there is a
He's a gimmick. And so of course it makes sense
that he's got room under the tent for these half
gimmick things, because that's that's how he became a bajillionaire.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
I know, and and again but but but what I'm
what I'm saying though, is that it this because I'm again,
I just keep thinking of so many people who I'm
friends with who have posted things who are like, how
can people feel this way about about this this this
this you know, awful human band? And it's like, because

(01:31:18):
I don't feel that way. For Terry Blea Wolverine isn't
gonna get caught on a wire tap, making Slight have
to worry about it exactly, you know, don't get to
have that. You're not going to catch Batman on a
fucking sex tape, all right, Batman's not gonna sue Gawker,
you know, like like this, this is and and and

(01:31:40):
so it's just it's it's it's so it's so bizarre
and it's so crazy. Like all the wrestlers have done
fucked up ship. You know, this is the one that
just you can't you can't get around it. You know,
you can't like no, you know what I mean, you
can't not bring it up. We can't talk around it. No, No,
all these other you know, not all of these, but

(01:32:02):
there's so many wrestlers. There's so much fucked up shit.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Like you could lay out the fact pattern of like
Savage and Liz in a way where you're like whoa
or like Savagen of course his relationship with Stephanie Beller's
Gorge George and the taping her and stuff. You this
was just about any carne motherfucker. Really, It's just that
Hogan had a wire tap.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
But uh, you know, his is just a key.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
We can't have nice things because Hull Cogan should have
been something we could take to the grave. Yeah, just
like Superman, Spider Man anything like that. But whatever, No, Gareth, Gareth,
Gareth went out there. Gareth was watching as Hull Cogan
came out in the UK.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Yep, yes he was. Uh, here we go. So I
kidding in Uh, finally, in my late twenties, I was
expecting what I'd seen hundreds of thousands of American and
Canadian kids being able to do with huge envy. At
the time, the match or any star rating was inconsequential.
The fact was that I'd finally seen Hulk Hogan wrestle.

(01:33:04):
A year later, the Big Man was back for TV taping,
even showing up for a meet and greet, which allowed
me to briefly shake Hogan's absolutely massive hand and get
a photo taken with the icon. I had no idea
at the time that this was his last match. Why
would it be, Why would it be in a six

(01:33:25):
man tag in front of forty two hundred fans and
a house show in England. Surely TNA or even WWE
would promote one final match, but as the year years
wore on, it became clear that this wouldn't happen. Fast
forward to twenty twenty five probably speaks volumes about his
chaotic private life that my first thought upon reading the

(01:33:49):
initial reports of Hulk Hogan's death were, Oh, this is more,
This is more Bubba the love sponge bullshit. When I
saw the w B tweeted, it hit home and my
first thought was just sadness. Sadness about how the greatest
career in wrestling had disintegrated to him being booed in

(01:34:10):
his last w B appearance, how his family unit had
been ripped apart, and his well, I would say, he'll
he allowed it to be ripped it apart. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, you know, like his infidelity. It was a
big thing here, folks. It wasn't just that it was
ripped apart. He did a he was a I'm not
saying he was completely at fault, but he had a
big fucking part in it, big fucking part. And his

(01:34:33):
death being subject to joy and ridicule by a large
chunk of your wrestling twitterati. I found a lot of
the reaction to be largely dependent on age and when
you were a fan. Absolutely, of course, absolutely, that's of course,
you know, if you don't, if you didn't grow up
with him, of course why would you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Yeah, if you don't have anything to lose by saying
fuck that guy, if you don't have any like personal
conflict like that, of course it's easy to say that
guy sucks, Like, shut the fuck up, right, You don't
have to, you don't have to deal with the fact that,
like he was so formational, you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Know, right right, get it, Crispin Juan Guerrero for example,
or most of those, most of those hailed as the
best technical wrestlers never did anything for me. I've never
really cared about match quality, and I've always been more
interested in all the bullshit surrounding the actual in ring
action as a kid. To this day, I find matches

(01:35:28):
longer than ten minutes without a major story to be
a chore to watch. So with my taste firmly matching
what hul Comania offered, I wouldn't have become a wrestling
fan at all. Were it not for Hulk Hogan. Clearly,
Terry Bulay the man was a different matter. His usual

(01:35:48):
humorous and sometimes problematic lies were beyond even what you'd
expect from a jock who spent twenty five years hammering
cocaine and steroids and having his brain battered three hundred
days a year. Also held racist views and was caught
on tape making comments that couldn't be construed as anything else.
But forgive me if I'm not shocked that an academicallylimited

(01:36:10):
man from Florida who grew up during the late sixties
and early seventies held personal views that I wouldn't agree
with and would consider distasteful. His views, or most of
his values, couldn't be further from mine, and at hazard
that these particular comments were probably tame compared to anything
we'd have heard in the w W dressing room during

(01:36:31):
the nineteen eighties. Yet even Brett Hard has gone on record,
as have dozens of others, on how great he was
with Make a Wish kids and kids wanting autographs, usually
going well beyond the call of duty. At least he
didn't go beyond the call of duchie. That'd be a
little worse and while his mantra wasn't backed up by

(01:36:51):
his personal actions, I'd like to think that they had
some sort of positive positive impact on millions upon millions
of children growing up in the nineteen eighties in nineteen nineties,
due to his sheer celebrity, he was and will always
be held under the microscope to a degree that his
contemporary He's probably managed to escape. A deeply complicated man
in figure, but worthy of a nuanced look back in

(01:37:14):
the fashion that I know that only the lapsed universe can.
There are millions of forty to fifty year olds who,
deep inside their younger selves, are more than a little sad.
Since the twenty fourth of July, thank you co Chairs
for the memories, thank you for the inspiration, and thank
you for Hull Commania. That's wonderful, one of the best emails.

(01:37:36):
Thank you ever. That right there is the best ever.
That says it all.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
And to have been there for that last match they
didn't realize it was the last match is so befitting a.

Speaker 1 (01:37:45):
Whole only only forty two hundred people, Well for TNA,
that's double their highest No I know, but I'm saying
like there are They're like, that's a handful of people, Like,
can you think about all the people who've seen Hulk Hogan, Like,
not many people were there. It's a it's an elite
group who were there for Hulk Hogan's final match. And
I like that nuance he pointed out, which I don't

(01:38:05):
think I ever appreciated, which was that people came to
the arena knowing that Hulk Hogan was there. He was
advertised as appearing, but everyone came and expecting an interview
segment or some kind of angle, and so you don't
see him the whole show. That's part of why it
gets such a big pop when he comes out, because
that clip is out there. It's like fancam though, because
it wasn't a TV taping When he gets such a
massive pop, Eye the Tiger, it's Gareth points out, it's

(01:38:26):
because people had gone all night not seeing Hulk and thought, well,
maybe he's not gonna show. Yeah, right, and then here
he comes and it ends up being a match. And
I'm sure in his head, we'll do this a couple
more times, three more times. If I feel up to it,
I'll just go out there and what part of a match?
How many times he fucking said I'm getting murdered for Wrestlmania.
Brother around, well he is.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
He's never gonna close that door because he doesn't know
what kind of check Vince is going to dangle. We
spent a lot of time during the teenage journey getting
into something that isn't really talked about enough, and he
talks a lot about it during his Laser Spine lawsuit
deposition about how Vince was making serious offer for him
to come in and wrestle John Cena in like two
thousand and what six maybe or seven or eight. Yeah, Yeah,

(01:39:06):
there was there was serious son treaties about doing that.
It was part of the leverage he had to get
a good deal out of TNA, was that Vince was
still actively interested in putting him in the ring against
John Cena for a big WrestleMania event. You know, Vince
has always been so fixated on this idea of Hulk
being the Babe Ruth character that you know, but he's
a living Babe Ruth. He's not just the Babe Ruth.

(01:39:28):
He also someone that occasionally, right, I know, I know,
but Vince saw this vision of him as a guy
who occasionally would actually show up and play for the Yankees.
You know once a year, right, and how great could
that be? While also limiting the way.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
You imagine if that was a thing in baseball, like
legends should come back for like one goal ted Ted
Williams is chirogenically preserved.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
Maybe that's true. Maybe one day we'll see it. You'll
walk back out there. Travis writes, Hey, boys, When I
think of my discovery of the Holkstore as a child
and the magic of being a little kid trying to
figure out when I could ever actually see this man
wrestle on TEA, one show comes to mind Saturday Night's
main event. There were thirty thirty Saturday Nights main events
in the Hull Comania era. Hulk wrestle on twenty six

(01:40:09):
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Yes, you didn't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
To see what you guys come up with, whatever it
may be. Yeah, that's gonna be a tough one. We've
spent a lot of time talking about how we dress
Saturday Night's main event as part of what will come
to be called the Complete hulll Cogan. I think you
can expect us to definitely touch on them as we go,
but we also don't really want to do a Saturday
Night's main event journey and call it a tribute to
Hulk Hogan, which.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
It would be, I mean, would also be here for
like another decade, like the next decade of TLF, would
be all all.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
The reasons to elongate this. That would be a pretty
weak one. But we'll talk about and watch the matches,
you know. The balance we want to strike is the
way we did Lapsed Funk, where we watch key moments
as they go, but we don't ever do an entire
event really and traditional TLF, where entire events is what
you want, you know, and we can do both with Helkovin,

(01:41:01):
we can do both. And so just because we talk
about a Saturday Nights main event that Hulk cogn main
event and perhaps even watch said match, doesn't mean we
covered that whole Saturday Night's main event and that therefore
it will never never be eligible for Deep Divage at
some other point. So that's what I'd say, and that
won't be the case for everyone, But we'll be very
selective around Saturday's main event, Clash of the Champions, you know,

(01:41:22):
things that he did that were big and memorable, But
at the same time, it just adds so many more
potential events to the Deep Dive list again top ten
and if you want to put a Saturday Night's main
event on there be my guest, because like I said,
we won't deep dive any of them. I know what
Saturday Nights Made events are on my short list. If
we were to go hull Hog, I think we all

(01:41:43):
do yes. Jojosmanios, thank you very much for your pledge.
Welcome into the Solar system. We deeply appreciate your patronage
and support. Noe, thanks very much for bumping up to
that mote tier. Presumably get a taste to that faithful call. Jordan,
thank you very much for joining in the VIP tier.
Tony writes, greetings co chairs, A longtime fan, and I

(01:42:04):
just heard you're taking ideas for the Hogan tribute, So
I'm just gonna spitball some stuff. You guys have done
such a thorough job covering Hogan's in ring and movie career,
but you haven't covered the Hulk Cogan and the wrestling Bootman.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
We did a little bit, but I guess we haven't
called him the fucking full CD.

Speaker 2 (01:42:20):
This shit is truly horrible. He says he did this
with Julie Hart and it's the worst shit you've ever
listened to, And that's just one song.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
Other ideas a.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
Lapsed funeral the universe of Laps characters Hey now, oh,
Saint Editor at the Gate laps To Hogan gets to
the Pearly Gates, but is greeted by the lapsed editor,
who rolls him up from behind for the one two
three Wow Wow Heaven doesn't work for me. Brother laps To.
Hogan makes it to Heaven, but immediately throws a fit
when he goes into God's Lapsed Fritz office and sees
he's been booked to lose to David von Eirek. He

(01:42:50):
refuses to do the job and insists on invoking his
creative control clause. God Lapsed Fritz reminds Hogan that he
sent his boy to die for our sins, so Hogan
has to job. After all, Heavy needed a champion. How
might that sound, Boss? As far as Fritz go, Oh God.

Speaker 1 (01:43:08):
Sunday, August third, at noon, the Lapse fan take go ahead.
I just want to say, and my boy, I shut
my boy down. He died for our sins. He lived
seventy five years and twenty five and I think it's
time you do the job. I'm in the year sad
Hope live in seventy one. Fritz, Betsy, I think you

(01:43:30):
lived twenty five years and seventy one, so it works
in reverse order. I see, I thought I thought he
would lived one hundred and forty some days years. Well, brother,
I just want to say, dude, I understand where you're
coming from.

Speaker 5 (01:43:42):
Brother.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
I want to just kind of like get on the
same page with the big man upstairs, dude. But here's
where I'm thinking, Brother. What I'm not digging, dude, is
this kind of you know, like we're talking about who's
going over who's so I just want to know. So
what I have, brother. You know what I kind of
agreed upon, dude, and I could have sworn the you
know you signed this with me, brother, but that it

(01:44:02):
was for a long time dude, that when the time
came where Hule Cogan was going to kind of make
that big trip upstairs, Dude, I have this contract signed
by the by the good, by the Holy Father Almighty brother,
saying that I do have creative control over anything that
goes on in heaven. So let's kind of get on

(01:44:23):
the same page too, because I'm not going to play
hide the ball anymore with the big Man.

Speaker 2 (01:44:27):
Brother Contiac Heaven Dome, laps Tope Lapstoken reunites with laps
Andre for Heaven Mania three, but this time laps Andre
gets to slam Lapstog and his laps Tooken does the job.
He finally finds peace in putting someone else over. Love
you guys, love this.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Listen, listen, listen that that that would be that right there?
If if if if? That would be hull Cogan's version
of hell is having to lose to everybody over and
over and over again. That's that's that's his version of
l How many AI images did we get of him
covering Yokozuna in Heaven? Yeah? Well what about the inverse?

(01:45:08):
Read everyone he put out he gets their win back. CJ.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Want to thank you very much for bumping up to
the MOTE tier. We very much appreciate that. Great to
see Tom going to be joining us. Several Toms actually
are going to be joining us coming up in New York,
so we appreciate that. Ao t D thank you very
much for joining the VIP tier.

Speaker 1 (01:45:30):
We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:32):
Ness or Aka Sam writes to us here a relative
to hul Cogan as seen as he writes here by
a two thousands kid. There's a perspective you don't get
on too often, so Boss, if you could please regale
the solar system.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
Yes, indeed, I've been a fan since discovering your show
in twenty fourteen on Reddit during the Mania Journey, but
have never written in. But with the death of the
most famous wrestler ever to live, as well as the
possibly the main protagonist of the lapsed fan these eleven years,
I just have to send something in. I was born
in nineteen ninety nine, well past the glory days of Jocomania,

(01:46:12):
and I became a fan in early two thousand and five,
around the time Batista I turned on Triple H and
began his hunt for the world title. It was in
this fateful year of two thousand and five where I
was infected with the curse of wrestling fandom. That he
was born in nine ninety nine, even a fan since
he was fifteen years old of our show. That's something

(01:46:33):
I don't think about this. I don't people that got
into our show when they were kind of like teenagers,
not even late barely high school, barely high school. That's bizarre,
that's wild. I need to know more about that. Honestly,
I was infected with the curse of Wrestling phantom that
Hulk Hogan came onto my radar for the first time.

(01:46:56):
Most people would probably point to Hogan Knows Best or
his program with Hbka as to what might make a
new fan to take notice of Hogan in two thousand
and five. That's a weird thing to think about, too.
What's that the idea that you're not that you've never
really someone his age, never seen Hull Cogan, and you
get introduced to Hull Cogan via his reality show. It's
fucking ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's it's it's it's perverse.

Speaker 2 (01:47:20):
One of the key realizations we had during Bash at
the Peach ninety four was like you said, whole Cogan
really to you, in terms of when you became a
fan ninety one, is more of a WCW wrestler than a.

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
W W exactly that that that's that is so true.
That is so unbelievable. It's weird, you know, Like I
always I equate so much more with him in w CW,
so so far to for for this guy, for Sam,
he equates the reality show guy. Yeah, that's just that's wild,
you know, and that's so so wacky. I mean, it's

(01:47:51):
the same thing with with people. It's it's it's hard
to think about the fact that that that John Seen
has been wrestling so long that people who were like
the kids who were fans of him when everyone was
booing him are adults today. God, Like, that's the thing,
Like you think about an eleven year old kid who

(01:48:11):
was at WrestleMania twenty Wrestlming twenty three in Detroit, you
know where I'm proclaiming, yes, you know, and they're agreeing
with me that you need see seven two thousand and seven.
They're now twenty eight years old, twenty eight years on
the pushing thirty right, So like, again, those are the

(01:48:32):
fans who are not booing John Cena now that he started. Hell,
they're the ones who didn't want to see a heel turn.
I'm having trust some weird man in trouble with this. Yes, yes,
it's a very it's it's really it's a hard thing
to fathom honestly, that you know, especially too when you
when you think about the fact that we were adults

(01:48:56):
for the beginning of John Cena's career and now it's
twenty three years later, So that's just you know, there
we are a little bit. Where was I there? Oh? Here?

(01:49:17):
Most people know Hogan's the best or his program with
HBK as to what might make a new FanTac note
of vocal gum in two thousand and five. But what
got me intrigued by the Hulkster was the SmackDown Versus
Raw two thousand and six video game that came out
at the end of the year. If you have ever
played that game I have, you might remember that, unlike
every other wrestler on the roster that only had one
playable character model, Hogan had three different characters, those being

(01:49:44):
nineteen eighties Hogan, Hollywood Hogan, and two thousands Hogan. To
my six year old mind, the fact that Hogan had
three characters in my favorite wrestling game while everyone else
had only one automatically slatted him above everyone. Sure, it
makes sense, and from that point on I figured out.
I figured he must have been a god compared to

(01:50:06):
the rest of the mere mortals. He was, he was
im mortal. That childhood impression is stuck with me until
I discovered your show. I lapsed in twenty ten after
the retirement of Shawn Michaels and didn't think about wrestling
again until twenty fourteen when I stumbled on the Squared
Circle subridit, which is where I found you after someone
posts about your interviews with Uncle Dave. It is this

(01:50:28):
unrelenting odyssey that you have taken us on for the
past eleven years that has taken Hulkogan from being an
almighty being graced all my being, an almighty being that
graced my PlayStation two and filled me with wonder at
the seemingly mythical world of wrestling before my birth, to
being little more than a living stuck even when he's

(01:50:52):
at his peak, whether it's documenting him taking eighties pop
culture by storm in the WrestleMania Journey documentary, his fight
to get back his ninety percent from Vernon the a Toba,
his case making testimony in the trial of his life,
the Bash two thousand, collision with Russo, the Cherry on
the Hull Hogan shit Sunday that was TNH, or even

(01:51:15):
a random show that he has nothing to do with.
This show has deconstructed and reconstructed the very idea of
Alkgogan correct. Despite it all, I can I can also
say that I never would have gained whatever appreciation that
I do for the man without the cast your deep
Dives or the Mania six match with Warrior, the Mania
eighteen match with Rock, the ninety six Bash Heel Turn,

(01:51:36):
all the shows during the high water marks of the
nWo really opened my eyes to the fact that Terry
Bella had other worldly abilities that we will likely never
see again in the world. A professional wrestling we can
be and we have been. Yep, that's right. Obviously, the
last decade and a half hasn't been kind to the

(01:51:57):
Hulkster with his many sordid adventures that were expertly and
hilariously chronicled in TNH. But honestly, what can you expect. Artists,
creative types, or entertainers throughout all of human history have
constantly shown just about every negative and anti social, anti
social trait that you can imagine, And when you are

(01:52:18):
dealing with the dregs of the entertainment world that is
professional wrestling, I think you're fooling yourself to expect anything
different from these guys. Professional wrestling, especially in the era
that Hogan broke in but still to this day, is
a business of lying, manipulation, bullying, scheming, drugs, and easy women.

(01:52:41):
Oh correct, Oh, probably some easy men too. Let's not
you know, an easy non binary folks. Let's not just
fuckingone's getting off everyone exactly. Listen, everyone's getting off, everyone's
getting laid, everyone's exactly. Everyone is just out for themselves,

(01:53:03):
all wrapped up in a nomadic existence where you have
perfectly good reason to be in a different city or
state from one night to the next. It should be
no surprise to anyone that Hogan or many of the
men of his ilk warrant exactly paragon. It's a virtue,
I guess. To try and wrap up my rambling, I

(01:53:24):
can say that for Hull Cogan is many things to
many people. He's an icon of the glory years of wrestling.
He's probably responsible for more people becoming wrestling fans than
any other wrestler ever. He was possibly the most charismatic
force ever in the business. He was maybe the greatest
worker ever in his ability to push an issue and
get people invested in his matches. He was selfish, he

(01:53:45):
was self centered. He lied as easy as an normal
person breathes. He was in many ways a piece of shit.
But here at the end of his life, I think
the answer for me is simply that Hull Cogan is
a joke that will never stop being funny. You're well

(01:54:06):
right there. It's proof of what he said exactly yours
and lapsed, Sam PSU rest in peace, Ozzy. As a
lifelong Black Sabbath fan, the news of his death ruined
my week and really lessened the impact of Hogan's death
for me. Once he hears this, I'm sure Terry will
be trying to get some of the heat back in
the afterlife. You brother, what why do you follow Hulk Hogan?

(01:54:32):
Oz Izzy Yo Yo oz Izzy? Brother? What's going on? Dude?

Speaker 3 (01:54:38):
Brother?

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
Dude? You know what? Brother?

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
What's it is? Dude? What do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:54:43):
Because you came on before me and I went on
last at Wrestlingia to brother, we got to redo that
in terms of our death. Brother, you get a count?
Why are you follow me up in the in the
the the Everlasting Life, Dude was going on the three
which of the three sil cast locations did you die?

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
Your brother? Brother? Wait a minut it to you get
a name with Saint Peter. Brother, brother, brother, brother, you've
been talking? What did you what happened to the gates?

Speaker 3 (01:55:06):
Brother?

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
What did what happened? How did you get in here?

Speaker 3 (01:55:12):
Brother?

Speaker 1 (01:55:14):
Who let you in? Saint Peter let you in? Dude? Mhm,
Ozzy is characteristic sign itself. Whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa Dude,
that's redonaldising back in, brother. I'm not trying to create
any tension between you know, me and the is Oz brother.

(01:55:37):
Pull the nose up on this thing, namely the coke
table that you're on. Uh, Hogan and Ozzy Jordan, Ozzy
and Hogan and Ozzie and Harry again, Ossie and Hogan Jordan.
Greetings co chairs.

Speaker 2 (01:55:52):
As Terry has died today, I'm sure you're formulating how
you'll cover the event accordingly. Obviously, the vast majority of
the important bits in his career have already been deep dived.
And I think you even said during the T and
H journey how the entire life of DLF has in
many ways been the Hull Cogan journey. In any event,
I look forward to whatever you come up with, and
decided to share some random thoughts that had come to
mind with his death. A quick preface. I never had

(01:56:14):
the real nostalgia for fandom for the man, or fandom
for the man. I started watching WWF as a kid
around nineteen ninety nine, it was only vaguely aware of
him as a WCW guys video games. Is that you
can't you can't write, You don't other one don't you
don't you don't you know? Being a fan in ninety
nine does not do. Of course, I can understand why

(01:56:36):
you would not be a fan. You can imagine Hogan
coming back out in The Red and Yellow Boss in
the Fall of ninety nine on Nitro and a bunch
of the audience being like, what is this? What am
I supposed to be excited about here? That the Hull
Cogan wing these different colors?

Speaker 1 (01:56:50):
Why are people caring about this?

Speaker 2 (01:56:51):
Da of him as a ww guy through video games?
Since I didn't watch ww my first actual exposure to
Hull Cogan was in the two thousand and two run
and never resonated much childhood me. I didn't dislike him
per se, but it just wasn't a character that I
found particularly engaging twelve year old and me also thought
a leg drop was not the best. I lapsed around
two thousand and five oh six and really didn't think

(01:57:12):
about Hulk Hogan and wrestling broadly for many years. My
childhood fandom generally didn't involve any of the backstage gossip,
so I was unaware of Terry's fuckery until getting into
wrestling podcasts like your Own many years later. That also
came around the same time as the Gawker trial and
learning that Terry was a racist scumback. I appreciate TF
over the years trying to crystallize why Hogan was the
critical success he was, while also lampooning the man appropriately

(01:57:32):
for the absolute ghoul that Terry Bolla was. It has
been interesting seeing much of the Internet shitting on Terry
in the wake of his death. Another thing TLF has
done over the years is show how wrestling is often
a microcosm of society, especially in the United States in
the last few years in particular, been impossible to ignore
how much of the social contract he writes of society
is torn is actually its own form of k fabe.

(01:57:54):
People are expected to fill a role society is to
find for them, and are expected not to think, only
to happily consume. The biggest possible social misstep often seems
to be that if you dare break the cafe bellution
and call shenanigans on the actual often pitiful state of affairs.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
But I digress.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
My final thoughts on Terry. It is fitting that those
few left who still lionize him view themselves, and by extension,
their idolized version of America as the nineteen eighties Hull
cogin character as the valiant good guy, strong, righteous, courageous,
standing up for the greater good. Sad reality is, though
those few lefts still lionizing him seem to actually very
much have the same character as actual Terry bo lea dishonest, conniving, hateful, bigoted, cowardly,

(01:58:32):
ultimately pathetic. Sadly, America's actual values and action seem to
mirror Terry bo Lea far more than they mirror the
Hull coke and heroic ideal. I look forward to whatever
you guys come up with. It is hard to believe
there is much more to uncover about Terry than you
guys have already touched on, but I know the cast
usually finds a way to on earth new truths. Jordan, Well, thanks,
I wouldn't say there is a lot to unearthed. I
don't think that's what we're about now on this one. No, No,

(01:58:55):
this one's just about saying what needs to Be said,
this one's about appreciation a critical assessment as much as
it is about you know, we've we've spent a lot
of time talking about Terry Bolea. It might be time
now to just talk about whole COVID, just saying we've
earned that, right, Yeah, Nicholas Newbe, thanks very much for
doubling ear pledge. We appreciate that and hope you enjoy

(01:59:15):
all the benefits that you're entitled to. Caleb Bright's doer
Co Chairs. This is my first email, long overdue. I
became a fan of TLF in twenty twenty one when
I stumbled across the Crispno episode. I thought it was
in for a grim true crime deep dive. What I
got with something else, entirely a mad, brilliant dissection of
the business that instantly hooked me and never let go.
I know you're both Hasbro kids. I was born in

(01:59:37):
ninety one, no pay per view, no rented wrestling tapes,
just broadcast TV until two thousand. For me, wrestling with
something you found, Yeah, I have memories of shotgun Saturday Night,
WCW Saturday Night, maybe even a foggy glimpse.

Speaker 1 (01:59:49):
I can agree with that, though, I can. I can
identify with that, because that's how it was for me too. Yes,
it was like up until I started, until up until
that fateful Sunday after Survivor's SERI and before Tuesday and Texas.
I I it was something that I found. I didn't
I didn't seek it out all the time. I found it,

(02:00:11):
and I I that that that was it. I founded
several times and just didn't continue to watch until that
one that one time. Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 5 (02:00:23):
The fan wrestling podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the

(02:00:57):
boys need their candy. It's the laps Fan. He's an

(02:01:33):
lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and carn Seo MJP Soro.

Speaker 2 (02:01:38):
I have memories of shot etcetera. Okay, and maybe even
a foggy glimpse of VCW airing on some cursed local
channel at one am. I couldn't tell you what year,
what channel, only that it felt like forbidden magic. I
became a diehard when SmackDown hit UPN and once we
got satellite in two thousand, it was over.

Speaker 1 (02:01:53):
I was in.

Speaker 2 (02:01:53):
I lived at the tail end of the attitude Ura
and beyond. Like many in the Solar System, I eventually
became lapsed for me. It was when WWE fumbled the
Nexus angle. I came back for sparks Punk pulled me
in with the pipe bomb, only for them to blow
that too. Anyway, I digress. I know the POD's been
running since twenty fourteen. I know you've covered a lot
of Hogan, but let's be real. You are both better
now than you've ever been. The craft is sharper, the

(02:02:14):
perspective richer. There's more information now, more hindsight, more meat
on the bone than ever before. The time is right.
And I'm just gonna say it. If Sabu qualified for
a journey, and by God, I'll cook and qualifies, don't
be bitches, he writes. This is the journey to end
all journeys, the big one, the main event, the final boss,
and if I may the last fan may be just

(02:02:36):
a tiny little podcast, but if you inject some hull
cog and rocket fuel into this thing, if you ride
the lightning bolt of Hulkelemania, I truly believe you can
pull the nose up. This is the pivot, the resurrection,
the one that gets us back on track.

Speaker 1 (02:02:52):
Good. So don't hide the ball, don't act like we've
heard it all because we haven't. Not like this. This
isn't the journey we want. This is the journey we
fucking need and only you two can do it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:02):
Justice.

Speaker 1 (02:03:03):
Do it for the Solar System, do it for whole Comania. Oh,
they do it for the Rock.

Speaker 2 (02:03:11):
Well, I'm sure do it for He'll be listening. I
did note in his Instagram story reflecting on WrestleMania eighteen
after Hulk COVID's passing that Rock was sure to refer
to his match with Hulk as the main event of
WrestleMania eighteen. Nice fuck you to Triple H. Yeah right
at Triple H, by the way, who insisted on narrating
and voicing over the Hull Co contribute package on SmackDown.

Speaker 1 (02:03:31):
Like, well, you know it's Triple H. After all, Triple
A and Triple H.

Speaker 2 (02:03:34):
It's the only guy talking on the stage when they're
all standing out there for the ten bell salute.

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
Oh my god. He's such a fucking egomaniac. It's like,
it's really it's it's really pathetic. You know the insecurity
is there, man? Yeah, like you know it it it
used to be. I mean, at least it's not obviously

(02:03:59):
as it's that's the thing. It's when when when it
was happening, you know, in the early two thousands, it
was infuriating because he was ruining everybody who had possibility, correct, right,
everybody who had possibility was stuck.

Speaker 2 (02:04:17):
In this ultra art and this guy is going to rise,
maybe he'll be the guy to excite us, and then
Triple H beats.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
Him, right, and and then he they become he becomes
the guy that excites us and we're ready for it,
and he ruins it by beating you know. It just
was so so awful. But now now that here he is,
he's you know, I want to just he's the boss,
all right. I'm just gonna he's the boss. And it's

(02:04:45):
like you don't need to do that anymore, Like you
don't need to be the center of attention, you don't
need to be up there, So what are you doing?
And he's just it's just pathetic. It says it is pathetic.
I agree.

Speaker 2 (02:04:56):
I agree that there might be some like you know,
and strategy as far as like let me continue to
be the cafe boss to the fans so that they
want me around, and there's never like a movement to
try to get rid of me and unseat me, but
insisting on being in every wrestle Mania commercial and the
curtain drops on the first Netflix, like, we don't need that,

(02:05:19):
we don't need you like reminding us that you had
something to do with this. You know, just let it play.
Yeah it be I know, And he's sometimes really good
about that, but other times it's just so sad. You
just you wonder, like, you know, if he's just constantly
just looking over his shoulder about Dwayne, and you know
what I mean, he'll take any opportunity to get in
front of the bar, tell.

Speaker 1 (02:05:39):
Them, well, I said, you can always lod your shoulder, brother,
because you know who's coming with from behind.

Speaker 2 (02:05:44):
That's the legacy health leaves right Ross Hamrick, thank you
very much for your pledge. Welcome into the solar system,
Bryce writes, the day of the patron Saint of Hoof Dies,
I pay my tithes to the co chairs, to bump
my ass to the fucking moat, tear to stand vigil
amongst the masses, listening to the call. This may be right,
it's the call of calls. It felt that way. I
will tell you that it felt that way.

Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the only one that I can
feel might be bigger is the Vince McMahon one, if
and when that happens.

Speaker 2 (02:06:13):
President of what, thank you very much for bumping up
your pledge, President of taking care of the CoA chairs.
That's what you're the president of. Joseph Neubauer, thanks for
pumping up your pledge all the way to the mote
tier John and Bristol, England, gentlemen, you've done it all,
from the Journey through a WA right up to SummerSlam
two thousand and five and almost everything in between, the Manias, Rent, Slams, Rumbles,
Survivors Series, WCW and beyond TNA Thunderdome. What's left is

(02:06:35):
a fitting tribute to probably the most memorable wrestler of
our time, Backlash two thousand and two.

Speaker 1 (02:06:40):
That one's got to be in here.

Speaker 2 (02:06:41):
I think we've settled on that one. You may even
leave that one off your top ten because that's pretty
much done and dusted. Yeah, right, one last run with
the title the last man to b WWF Champion WWF.

Speaker 1 (02:06:51):
That is not WWE Holy sh take care of that.
Take take your time with that, Take your time with it.
I never fucking even thought of that. That's un fucking
believable brother brother brother. Wait. Wait, so he's the I'm gonna,

(02:07:15):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna break my own k
fabe here. Okay, so he's the last WWF champion and
the first WWE champion Brother brother brother because it happened
in the middle, right, happened in the middle of his
fucking thing, I am. I mean, listen, it's been twenty

(02:07:38):
three years and I'm just realizing that it was.

Speaker 2 (02:07:44):
It was amazing that all the started to transpire just
as we arrived at our caricature version of this guy,
that second decade of Holthoven fandom that we both went
through together.

Speaker 1 (02:07:54):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (02:07:55):
And not just like you said, like WWF gives way
to WWE. He's back and he's holding the belt all
over again. Hilarious.

Speaker 1 (02:08:04):
That's why I say this guy's a legend man, Like
we all know that he captivated us in the eighties
and nineties, But when this guy was able to come
back and get the strap on him, like this guy's oh,
you can't. You can't question this guy how he moves.
When that happened. Yeah, listen, there's.

Speaker 2 (02:08:19):
Because he could barely I mean, he could do some stuff,
but he could barely move compared to like, you know,
eighties Hulk Hogan amazing one last run with the title.
The Political Chess played to take the title from Triple
As just thirty days after his crowning glory at Many eighteen.
I know, think about that too. Triple Ah had just
won the title in the show closing bout against Christ Jericho,

(02:08:42):
right and a month later. The only thing the only
thing that makes sense for the company to do is
have him lose it to Hulk Cogan. Isn't that amazing?
Oh Mania eighteen JP said it best on the Batch
of the Beach ninety four show. Hulk was always a
step ahead. The game went on last in Toronto, but
Hulk had already written the manual in nineteen eighty five
and perfected it for eight WrestleManias in a row. He

(02:09:03):
knew what he was doing against the Rock. He timed
his change to the red and yellow to perfection, rode
the wave and stood atop the mountain, breathing rare air.
That one last time, it must have been just like
the old times. For a fleeting moment, Vincent haulk back
on top. Perhaps both knew it wouldn't last. Maybe in
their heart of hearts, they just hoped it would back
last two thousand and two, one last run one two THROUGHNOI.

Speaker 1 (02:09:27):
He I'm yeah, I'm so. The official change happened on
May sixth, two thousand and two, dead in the middle
of Hulk Hogan's.

Speaker 2 (02:09:41):
I Rememberment Judgment Day two thousand and two was the
first WWE pay per view.

Speaker 1 (02:09:46):
Yeah, and I remember. I can remember the first time
I heard them say WWE, and I was mortified. Oh god,
it was horrible. I remember being just totally.

Speaker 2 (02:09:58):
Like, what the fuck, because like, wa, you dying and everything,
and that being the reason that had a lot to
do with jumping the shark right there. When they changed
the names, people were like, I'm just not going no,
I'm not going to watch this and and be triggered
every time they say w W instead of WWF. But
we're getting to that point, by the way, don't forget.
We're getting to that point where it's going to be longer,

(02:10:19):
longer than it was WWF.

Speaker 1 (02:10:21):
So just remember that. Just remember that it's that it
is going to be more w W than WWF. Okay,
and I wonder why we're relapsed.

Speaker 2 (02:10:32):
Yeah, one of the Realist Solar System members in the room,
Christian Rights Co Chairs. Well, we knew this day would come.
Kind of ironic, especially considering Vince recently stated his plans
to create a new entertainment platform and conglomerate which will
focus exclusively.

Speaker 1 (02:10:47):
Again, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, it is longer.
Oh we're there, yeah, because the the the I'm trying
to look here. Oh no, no, no, no, well yeah
we are. Actually In March of nineteen seventy nine it

(02:11:13):
became WWF, went from Worldwide Wrestling Federation w WF, and
then twenty three years later, twenty three let's see here,
twenty three and two months later it became w W
And now may it's listen, we're there now, we're at

(02:11:33):
the even point. It's now done. Now you can't fucking
say shit, okay, it's always been ww Now you can't
argue that. All right, it's overs up. Time's over. Times up, motherfuckers. Well,
John Steen's retirement year is when we realize it's always

(02:11:54):
been w W.

Speaker 2 (02:11:54):
If he rides it off, right, he rides it off
at the sunset, that permanent switchover, it's over. Well, we
knew this day would come, Christian rights kind of erotic,
especially considering Vince recently stated his plans to create a
new entertainment platform and conglomerate which will focus exclusively on
both pre and future determined points of bottle of contact

(02:12:16):
in the simulated presentation of artificial intelligence and technological engineering
on a hybrid level.

Speaker 1 (02:12:21):
Yes, what we are. We're currently in the process of
building the Vince McMahon owns Hulkamania entertainment companies. That's what
we have. The mcmanonmania Animania has been running wild these years.
Mcmanamony has been running while mcmannamania is the only mania

(02:12:41):
that exists still and Vince rules, thank you for.

Speaker 2 (02:12:47):
This, thank you for your time, thank you for your
attention in this matter. But again we all knew this
day would come Christian rights. So since Hulcymanea is officially
and forever dead, this the vinst rules, Vince, and this
is the decade of lapsed. I propose you have a

(02:13:08):
top ten greatest matches of the career of Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 1 (02:13:12):
That's all I have.

Speaker 2 (02:13:12):
Like that O W in my school newspaper article about
Hogan's turning heel at Batch of the Beach. I never
liked Hogan he was the shits. No, but really, what
do you think about a ten Greatest Matches tribute? Looking
forward to whatever you guys do, I'm sure it'll make
the Hulster proud, boss.

Speaker 1 (02:13:25):
What do you think to find ten greatest? We have
to find the prapifications for ten greatest, like ten greatest
in terms of in ring match quality or ten greatest
in terms of this is my favorite, yes, anything else.
It's up to you. What would you pick? I would
have to say greatest in terms of favorite, like, because

(02:13:47):
that to me is what is what matters. What would
they be? Because if it's if it's greatest, god, top
ten I mean, in no particular order, just to make
it easier, yeah, I mean, oh god, um, I mean
first of all, Rumble ninety one always the top, that's

(02:14:08):
number one, still my favorite. Can watch it and just
be thrilled. Consider that a Hogan match? I do, I do,
I will because he won it. If he didn't win
with that's like Flared Knights Rumble match, Yeah right it is.
I mean, look, Hogan Slaughter. I love Hogan Slaughter. I

(02:14:32):
could watch that all the time. I could watch it
all the time. The Hogan Savage for sure, But Hogan Flair.
I mean, listen, Hogan Flair, Hogan Flair, Halloween, Havoc, no question,
Hogan Savage, Hogan Savage. Five. Yes, I don't even know

(02:14:58):
where I'm at. Five. Yeah, that's five. Okay. My number
one is Hogan Warrior. Yeah, what's your number one? Hogan Warrior. Sure,
that's where really did it all? Yeah, really showed the
full breath of what he meant and what he could do. Actually,

(02:15:20):
I should say my favorite is actually probably the one
I saw live. That's actually my favorite one, follow by
romandinety one ninety one. Stuff is just gold to me,
always will be, always will be. Like watching the build
up to WrestleMania seven, a couple a couple of shows
of that just so amazing. Oh and the fucking Serenus

(02:15:44):
main event master too. Yeah I've never actually seen it,
so it doesn't do anything for me, but yeah, the
stuff that I watched early as a kid, that stuff's
my favorite. And definitely some Bash some some w CW stuff.
I mean, like I said, Hogan Flair in the Cage
is easily up there. Probably Hogan Piper at Starcade. Sure,

(02:16:11):
you know, because it meant something to me. Like watching that.
When I'm watching it live, I gotta go Hogan Andre. Yeah,
Hogan Andre's on there. I mean, you can't not put
Hogan Andre on there. It's gotta be. It's my number two.
But I'm going to Shay Stadium. Oh really, no, brother, Yeah, yeah,

(02:16:33):
it's a match in Japan. I mean that's the thing
that that's a great match. Like, but that's way, it's hard,
like I don't have the nostalgic feel for it, Like
I don't like to sit there and well to the
television right, like in terms of work rate. Yeah, that
in the moon of match is some of the best
shit ever.

Speaker 2 (02:16:50):
The Goldberg match, the you know what it loses, it
tends to be some of the best stuff. Even the
match on Nitro. Yeah, I had a joke, man, not
a joke. Good fucking stuff got the people out of
their fucking minds.

Speaker 1 (02:17:05):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:17:05):
And look the Rock match. It's fucking amazing. Yeah, it's
great and achievement on a level I never would have expected.

Speaker 1 (02:17:14):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's yeah. I'd have to really,
I mean, honestly, those are the ones on top of
my head. I'd have to really think about it a
little more, but like.

Speaker 2 (02:17:24):
Hit all, you had all the high points. There were
some sneaky ones in there. I think that we could include,
but that's pretty much it. The mooda match is good
in Japan, the uh Yeah, as far as ninety two,
not much, although I remember it so fondly.

Speaker 1 (02:17:37):
Well see again for me. But also you know what,
I love the Sid match. Yeah, you know, like it
didn't end right, but I love the Sid match. That
feud is iconic for me.

Speaker 2 (02:17:47):
And we go back to those savage matches from eighty five.
We were just watching, like that's some of the best
hoga and stuff you're gonna find. Yes, Ogan in Valentine,
Hogan in Morocco, and when he first gets the strap,
it's good stuff. He's out there really going for it,
you know, trying to make it, try to deserve the
position of top guy in the business, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:18:08):
Oh and also the ninety ninety survivisary stuff, both of them,
both his match with the whole communis versus the natural disasters,
but also the final MATCHSS survival equally ninety rumble yep,
that was my That's someone I rented a hundred times,

(02:18:28):
not ninety one. Yeah, what can you say? Can you say? Yeah?
And he did write this.

Speaker 2 (02:18:42):
Christian did write this piece in his high school newspaper
that he shared with us, which I think is so
fucking hilarious. Hulk Cogan has an agenda. The situation involving
Hulk Cogan in the New World Order, cleverly named the nWo,
is taking on a whole new perspective in the world
of professional wrestling. For those of you who are not
aware of the changes in ww World Championship Wrestling or
with Hulkogan, let me give a little insight. As of August,

(02:19:03):
the man Hulk Cogan is now the nWo slash WCW
World Heavyweight Champion. This came after he claimed that himself
and his two new friends, Scott holland Kevin Nash would
take over WCW and would call it the nWo. That's interesting,
so he read that as they're going to rename WCW, THENWO,
that's interesting. The way he won the title was very surprising. Indeed,
after beating the champion, the Giant, and stirred to South Dakota.

(02:19:26):
After he finished the Giant, he took the belt and
hit him in the head to score the pinfall. He
then took black spray paint and wrote the three letters
nWo on the gold title. However, this article is not
on how he won the title, yet, it is on
what he's planning on doing with the championship and how
it will affect the progress of the nWo and namely
his two friends holland Nash. In any professional sport, there
is at the end of a season a team or

(02:19:46):
a person who was called champion. Everyone in every team
struggles to one day call themselves champion. Yet in the
world of hul Cogan, only he can be called such
a name. As for holland Nash, if they don't portray
Hulkgan now, they'll never be able to be the champion
of WCW. Look him wanting nan w out of collapse
on itself. That's pretty wid The reason for such an
outrageous statement is to show to the world that Hogan

(02:20:07):
is not only a shallow person, but to let his
partners know that Hogan is planning on holding onto that
title for as long as it takes, even if it
means never giving them a title. Shot Man Hallan nashould
have read this high school newspaper man, they would be
coming around the corner, strange.

Speaker 1 (02:20:21):
Fucking booked, rebooked, the whole, fucking uh, the whole.

Speaker 2 (02:20:25):
Completely strange as it may seem, this happens all the
time in wrestling. Someone's friend becomes champion and the relationship
falls straight downhill. This card back in nineteen ninety when
Sting was a member of the Four Horsemen, the Four
Horsemen were a lot like the nWo are today. They
always beat up who they wanted to, and they own
the World heavyweight title. Sting is very much like Holland Nash.
He wanted to know what the ten pounds of gold
felt like. However, Sting was in the wrong place at

(02:20:45):
the wrong time. He broke the eleventh Commandment and asked
then champion Rickclair to give him a title match. He
left the ring with a broken leg. The result was
quite clear. Never be friends with the champion, because sooner
or later you'll be bitter enemies.

Speaker 1 (02:20:57):
Like that, there we go.

Speaker 2 (02:20:58):
Maybe holland Nash are at the wrong place the wrong time. Also,
it would be nothing for Hogan to grant someone else's shot,
but these are supposed to be the men to help
him keep the title. The nWo is no doubt a
force to be reckoned with and Hogan does have some
pretty good wrestlers by his side, but for how long?
The only things that will hurt his title reign or, arrogance,
a big mouth, and a cold heart. He's displaying those
factors at this point in time. Yet when the smoke

(02:21:19):
clears and Hogan walks out of that arena, he'll look
back and once again be alone. Holy shit, Wow, that's
fucking that works in a lot of ways. Kudos Christian.
That's good stuff. Man pulling up an old scan that
he had of his high school newspaper.

Speaker 1 (02:21:37):
That's wild. That's fun.

Speaker 2 (02:21:38):
Thanks for the top ten ideas well. Martin Zamora, Thanks
very much for bumping up your pledge to get that
moat tear taste. We deeply appreciated. Isaiah. Isaiah, thank you
so very much. Christian also asks you think Savage decked
Hogan in the eye as soon as he saw him
in heaven. Another thing Christian.

Speaker 1 (02:21:59):
Wrote some I've seen some funny AI drawings of like
Hogan being welcomed by by people in Heaven. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
no no no, listen, they're going after him, all right,
nobody's up there like thrilled to see him. You know,
I mean assuming he goes up to heaven anyway. Listen,
I mean assuming assuming any pro wrestler is in heaven.

(02:22:19):
We talked about the Big Man for a lot of
years to not earn the admission. Yeah, but he also
screwed a lot of people down here on Well, none
of the wrestlers are going to be up there. If
that's disqualifying, Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't think
I can't imagine a single wrestler ever getting up to Heaven.

Speaker 2 (02:22:36):
Christian also wrote on one of the posts about Hogan's passing,
I quote from Vince McMahon, I will be the last
one standing. Oh is that not coming to us? That's
the way it's going to be, my dev thank you
very much for your increase in pledge. We deeply appreciate that.
Cliff writes to us brothers back last two thousand and two,
Hogan's last world title in Triple H versus the real

(02:22:58):
Triple H. He's calling for Josh. We want to thank
you very much for bumping up to the mote tier.
Andrew Wright suggestions one deep dive his first title reign,
including the arena title defenses that are out there. Yeah,
a lot of those have been done in the Coliseum
collection actually, but it's a hell of an idea. You know,
how much can we can we observe of Hogan's original
title run that wasn't on a quote day preview yep,

(02:23:20):
the whole Comedia Colisseum videos in order I will say
that we're not going to do those. Those are the
Coliseum collection. Yeah, I agree, So those and I'm sure
to a large will do the matches that are on
those tapes anyway. I mean, I mean, well some of them,
some yes, some know, there's definitely certain a lot of
shit in there on those tapes that aren't on pay

(02:23:41):
per views or big shows. I don't think I ever
saw a sertain has made event on a whole comedia.

Speaker 1 (02:23:46):
Well I'm not always get a fucking but the point is,
the complete Hull Cochin journey does not have to be
a pay per view or TV show. It could be
some random show on Philly that was on PRISM, you know.
And I also, you know, I also think I don't
I don't personally want to do every Hulk Hogan show.
I want there to be some down the line, you know.
But I think the idea of filling in the gaps

(02:24:09):
of the major stuff is crucial.

Speaker 2 (02:24:11):
Yeah, and we know what what counts as major, And
he also calls for the missing pay per views in
SNM's Yeah, I think we're all we all kind of
got there together somehow, some way. We're making suggestions in isolation,
but when you put them together in vacuums, but when
you put them together, it's like, Yeah, this is kind
of the cross current of what everybody's saying. Zach just says,
just started in seventy five and go to twenty twenty five,

(02:24:31):
one episode each year. Easier said than done, but that's
pretty much what we're gonna do. Absolutely, so many people
got the news while they were listening to the Bash
at the Beach ninety four episode. I just can't believe that,
but that's how we ended up. And yes, Zach, I did.

Speaker 1 (02:24:46):
Make a mistake saying that Hulk Hogan's attorney was Howard Hughes.
I was sitting there, Howard Hughes maybe a little. I
was like, I don't know about that, but okay, his
name it's Henry Holmes. I thought it was Henry Holmes
Holmes rather double a Stu Wright.

Speaker 2 (02:25:05):
Hello, a quick note. How about a piece on how
the World News reported Hogan's death. This is the World
News in the UK, for example in the UK, and
it was on the main BBC six o'clock news, which
is probably the highest profile. It wasn't as important as
the cricket score, but was more pressing than the weather.
They highlighted Rocky and the WWE, but also mentioned the
Gawker stuff and summed it all up with Hogan's endorsement
of Donald Trump. I'd be keen on seeing how India, Japan, America,

(02:25:25):
in fact any country handled the news. I'm obviously not
going to seek it out myself, but you asked for suggestions.

Speaker 1 (02:25:30):
Yes, thank yous to. This is a good idea.

Speaker 2 (02:25:32):
I'm not quite sure how we thread that in, but
I think it is interesting to note. I know that
Fumisaido did a show for Wrestling Observer on what Hogan
meant to Japan, which I'm looking forward to checking out. Fumi,
you might recall from the Lapsed Funk series, has really
nice beat on not only how wrestlers are received in
his native Japan, but having lived in the States for

(02:25:53):
years and being fluent in English, he also understands how
to explain that to an American wrestling audience, you know,
and translate what the cultural impact is. So I look
forward to getting his sense of how Hogan's career in
passing was received in Japan but other countries. It's tough
to say the UK is great because, as so many
of our listeners are in the UK have pointed out
to us, the steroid trial didn't hurt him over there.

(02:26:15):
There's a reason that he starts leaning in with the
Wrestling boot Band and talking about Wembley in the UK
A whole hell of a lot after that ww Front
ends right, Tony writes, greeting's co chairs, I'm sure you're
getting pounded with suggestions regarding what to do with the
potential Hulk tribute, but I didn't want to throw out
a couple of suggestions. One guess what he says selfishly,

(02:26:37):
I attended this show. Wow he attended? Oh I need
I need information on that one when we come to
it in about have to contribute to his story or
two regarding the feelings in the arena that night and
after Hulk beat Triple eights, that was a fascinating show.
Don't waste any time, Tony, get it to us now,
Get it to us now, or get started on it now.
Two Saturday's Made Event July nineteen ninety. This was the

(02:26:58):
first show I ever attended and it had Hulk's return
interview since being.

Speaker 1 (02:27:00):
Injured by earthquake. What was it you meet the date again?
July nineteen ninety before SummerSlam. Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (02:27:06):
This was the first show I ever attended and had
Hulk's return interviews since being injured by earthquake.

Speaker 1 (02:27:10):
That was a huge show for me. I mean you
want to talk about you know, Cornerstone. It was the
first WWS pay per.

Speaker 2 (02:27:15):
View I ever watched Summer Slam ninety plus it has
that tribute package before the interview, which now seems really poignant.
I still have so many memories from this show. There
are many others, including the big event SummerSlam eighty eight
ninety eight, No pardon me, SummerSlam eighty eight, Hex Survivors
Series eighty seven. Yeah, but I would love to hear
the coverage you gentlemen would provide for two shows I
hold near and dear. Thanks for hearing me out, thank

(02:27:37):
you for the memories, thank you for the inspiration, and
thank you proclamania. Thank you rollers there you go, SNMA
July ninety. Probably we'll say a lot about Hogan. It's
not a match, but that segment ought to be in
there somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:27:52):
Steve says, I was just sitting in my tent at
a music festival, so I've been cut off from the
world a bit. Today.

Speaker 2 (02:27:56):
My son sent me a text message a short while ago.
Hulk Hogan has died. Fuck me dictionary definition of end
of an era, without doubt, the greatest pro wrestler of
all time. I'm going to keep this brief. May send
more thoughts when I'm home next week, but I saw
your tweet about oh bit coverage and any suggestions we
may have. My suggestion, deep dive the entire Mega Powers arc.

(02:28:16):
It's the protheosis of the art in my opinion. Dig
up every match, every promo, every magazine article, and go
deepen that ass on the Megapowers month's worth of shows
there to do it justice, but it deserves it. It's
the best angle ever and personally was my favorite formative
rather wrestling experience.

Speaker 1 (02:28:34):
It's what got me on the hook. Brother.

Speaker 2 (02:28:37):
Yeah, that has good stuff, man, Yeah, yeah, shout outs
to Josh, who gave a lot of the outlines of
that list that I read out there just a while ago.
On the show of Unaddressed Hogan Episodes, Anthony writes, I've
been a loyalty LF fan since the beginning. You may
recognize me from Twitter. I'm beginning begging you rather to

(02:28:57):
please cover the Colisseum video release Hulcymania three in your
t to Hogan, he's begging us, boss. Wow, I don't
know begging. It's the entire Hogan and Entre feud from
beginning to eighty eight.

Speaker 1 (02:29:10):
Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:29:11):
It's the best Colosseum release in my opinion, and the
best WWF home video release other than because Stone Cold
said so. Looking forward to everything you do. Thank you
for your consideration, Anthony, I love it. I think we're
gonna have to let you down there. But we'll see,
we'll see, I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:29:24):
But I'll say, you know, it might be it might
be something to like. At least go through and take
a look at some of the stuff that isn't you know,
maybe not seen as much, you know, there's sure. That's
what I always love about the the Colisseum videos is
that they have stuff that was airing at the time

(02:29:46):
that a lot of times they haven't put up on
the network for sure. Whatever you know, there's a lot
that's true.

Speaker 2 (02:29:52):
DJ Smithy, thanks very much for bumping up your pledge
to the MOAT tier level. We deeply appreciate that side
of support. Christian did the same thing before mentioned Chris
Lucky want to thank you very much for making it
our lucky day. Josh, thank you very much. Jimmy, thank
you very much. These fuckers said, you know what mote
is for me?

Speaker 1 (02:30:08):
Matt.

Speaker 2 (02:30:09):
Matt just wrote a single subject brother, It's all, he
wrote in response to our call for suggestions webinar. Thank
you very much for your increase in pledge. Scott Michael said, also,
know what happened.

Speaker 1 (02:30:20):
Ten years ago today?

Speaker 2 (02:30:22):
The recording of Hogan saying racist shit was leaked. He
died on the tenth anniversary of that. He also says,
the most fucked up thing about this is as soon
as I heard the news, my immediate thought was wondering
who was going to make the call first. That's that's
what we do, That's what people think now. Also, I
bet Hogan gets cremated because there's going to be a
clause in his will prohibiting anyone.

Speaker 1 (02:30:42):
From burying him. Of course, listen, come on, Amber, thank
you very much.

Speaker 2 (02:30:47):
Nobody can bury Hulk that mote tier taste. Travis Wilcox,
thank you for that generous increase in pledge. Jim Grant,
Welcome in to the TLF Patreon solar system. Chris g
same to you. We really appreciate it. Mick Arsenal, Welcome in,
my friend, and thank you for the pledge. Nathan writes
my whole life, I imagine I would feel bad and
sad for his passing. I wanted him to be good
and worthy. I tried so hard to keep him in
that column. Even after the sex tape, with the racism,

(02:31:09):
I still wanted to believe he was remorseful and trying
to be better. Then last year he just doubled down
on the heat. I more than the idea of Hulk Cogan,
who died twenty years ago. Terry Bulay is either lucky
there is no hell or he's there now. Did I
still shed tears? Yes, it's a lot we'll put Yeah.
I mean again, Matt, that's kind of it, like it's
it's a hard it's a very hard thing.

Speaker 1 (02:31:29):
It's not It's not black and white like like he
was in nWo Right, Daniel Beasley, thank you very much
for bouncing up to the motier. We appreciate it. Chris Calamito,
Welcome in, my friend, and thanks for the pledge. Same
to you, Charles Spina. We really appreciate your support on Patreon.
Jerome Cussen, same goes for you, my friend. Thank you
very much. Dirty Non sent us a message co Chairs.

(02:31:51):
Hulk Cogin passed away today. A constant in my life
as a wrestling fan was Hul Cocin. My earliest memories
of wrestling were Hulk on Saturday Night's Made Event. I
was on his side when the Mega Powers erupted, and
I was with him during the Ultimate Challenge. Me and
my wife's entrance music at my wedding was Voodoo Child.
Recent years have made being a fan of Hulk problematic,
and I thank the co Chairs for helping us the
Solar System process what it means to be a wrestling

(02:32:13):
fan and a fan of Hulk Hogan. This fucking cast
is the only true chronicle of the life of Terry Boleup.
We know this man inside and out without ever meeting him.
It definitely hurts inside, but I know the co chairs
will be there. Thank you for hul comania. David writes,
holy shit listening to the one two three as Hogan
wins the title from Flair when I find out from
a text message that he has died, m oregan, damn man.

(02:32:38):
The upcoming journey the co chairs are about to take
us on is going to be one for the ages.
Rip Hulk. May you no longer worry about being rolled
up from behind? Yeah? He still listen. That's that's far
from over, far from over, absolutely absolutely far from over. Well,
well you've been well, you've been giving on. Jesus. Dude

(02:32:58):
keeps looking at me. Brother, what what dude? Is he
uprotherer is the Christ Child tring? Roam me up, dude.
I'm dude, I'm on to dig that voodoo child.

Speaker 2 (02:33:15):
Andrew nails it. He just writes, OMG Bash of the
Beach ninety four episode anticipated this.

Speaker 1 (02:33:19):
I have no words.

Speaker 2 (02:33:20):
You two spoke this into reality. Mike writes, Hogan being
at paid mouthpiece for Orlando's tourism reminds me of Antonio
and OKI's later years as a diplomat, where he was
essentially paid to read a script for whatever country he
was visiting. Yes, this is my point. Hulk is for sale.
It's not new, Yes, exactly exactly. Pulk performs for the
audience in front of him.

Speaker 1 (02:33:41):
He's been for sales and see got in the professional wrestling.

Speaker 2 (02:33:44):
That's correct, But he's ironically where he hardly ever sold, right, Alan,
thank you very much for your pledge and welcome into
the TLF solar system at the Eptier. No less, Kirk
wants us to know quote wrestling school again again, never
has been, never will be. So so much for those
remarks during the Bash of the Beach ninety four broadcast,
Wrestling's cool again.

Speaker 1 (02:34:07):
Now, I'm sorry you know that is, without a doubt,
one of the worst fucking things I've ever heard. The
world is watching now? What the world is watching?

Speaker 3 (02:34:16):
Now?

Speaker 1 (02:34:16):
Hey, Wrestling's cool again? No new news.

Speaker 2 (02:34:22):
Now we're pushing on the mail bag side a little
bit just before the news came out about Hull Cogen
and some of the comments we got on a Batch
of the Beach episode before that was the overwhelming sentiment.
Sean writes, Shaq would already qualify for Under the Cinemat
due to his tag match against Cody at aw because
we talked about how Shak's participation in Bashed at the
Beach qualifies like Blue Chips and other movies like that.

Speaker 1 (02:34:43):
Well also, I mean, I was gonna say also his
TNA stuff too, So I don't even know he had
a match he wrestled Code.

Speaker 2 (02:34:48):
Yeah, that a tag match cod during the can Denis
towards the tail end. They may have had fans back. Yeah,
that was a big deal. They were supposed to involve
a Brandy but she got hurt, so they had a
h oh my god, what is it?

Speaker 1 (02:35:02):
Red? What's her first name? I forgot her name?

Speaker 2 (02:35:05):
Team with a Red bashing team with Cody, Shaq would
already qualify for UTC. Yep, I'm sure there must be
a story behind the match that never happened. In him
and Big Show, which was teased a few times in
w Yeah, they wanted to put together Shaquilla and Neil
versus Big Show for WrestleMania one year, but it didn't happen.
And then Shaq was in that Battle Royal, so he
definitely counts there.

Speaker 1 (02:35:23):
He was in there. He in Dallas, He's done plenty twenty,
totally qualified. So also Regal talked about facing a nook. Yeah,
we talked about why Steve Regal and Andok had a
confrontation on the Bash of the Beach broadcast. Yes, and
Sean notes that Regal talked about facing a nook in
his short lived podcast, apparently in OKI's retirement. Tourtali was
about facing wrestlers of all different styles and he wanted

(02:35:44):
a Wigan snake Pit trained heavyweight, of which Regal could
meet the criteria. So there you go. Wow, I'll throw
back to Billy Robinson that I'm that.

Speaker 2 (02:35:53):
I have no doubt Corey wants to take issue. Come on, boys,
Jesse said it over and over, and I vehemently agree.
Jim Brenzel had the greatest drop kick in the world,
full stop, never matched. No, that's not an open and
shutcase to you. No, I don't like uh Brunzell's a
fucking piece of shit. Perfect, That's perfect, no question.

Speaker 1 (02:36:11):
Wait, the way he held the hand under the chin
before he launched, yep, the way, the way like he
had just a perfect standing drop kick, and he would
he would get incredible height and he would connect so brilliantly. No,
I just I also, I just don't like Jim Brenze,
like I can't. I don't the face is tough. I
don't face is tough. I don't like looking at him,

(02:36:32):
and I don't. I don't just don't enjoy his matches
that much, So go fuck himself.

Speaker 2 (02:36:39):
This, of course, from our Best of WWF Volume eight
coverage in the Colisseum Collection. Corey also writes, because we're
talking about when Brett and jim had first formed a
tag team, Brett and Jim had time together, he informs
us in Calgary and the WWF Nightheart was with Jimmy,
and that was when Bundy was still with Jimmy. They
even teased a Bundy Knightheart tag team. This is right
when Brett was transitioning from Cowboy Brett Hard. I remember

(02:37:00):
WWF he started as cowboy bred Hart.

Speaker 1 (02:37:02):
Oh my god, that is suppressed, and.

Speaker 2 (02:37:03):
The commentators were noticing his heel tactics in the ring,
even though he hadn't really officially gone bad yet. The
Heart Foundation formed very quickly after that. Corey's always the
best at remembering those when we were two years old,
stuff that they just lose to time unless you are
watching week to week. Will Randolph want to thank you
very much for bumping up your pledge same to you,
Ah Richard. That's a deeply appreciated doubling of that coinage

(02:37:24):
to your co chairs Jeremy, thank you very much, Cody
writes to mine in Tampa. No, you're in contempt. Nice
one of the one of the better moments.

Speaker 1 (02:37:35):
That was so fucking great.

Speaker 2 (02:37:41):
John writes, co chairman, longtime listener and Patreon member here.
Haven't written in a while, but in light of the
conversation about Thunder and Paradise ter in the Bash of
the Beach ninety four episode, I felt it necessary to change.
I'll cut right to the chase. Within the last two years,
I've managed to watch every episode of Thunder and Paradise
on YouTube. I'm sorry I have a particular nostalgia connection
at that time period when wrestling overlap with another interest
of mine, Disney World. They learned not long ago the

(02:38:02):
show is not only filmed on sound stages at the park,
but also in the parks. There were entire episodes filmed
on the Indiana Jones Stunt show stage, and in the
episode they do the stunts that they do in the
actual Disney show and the Morocco Pavilion at Epcot. The
living sees Aquarium and Epcot, and there's literally an episode
where they just go to the Magic Kingdom. Not only that,
but there are so many wrestlers in it, from Beefcake

(02:38:22):
Brutus to Jim Knightheart Tuggers, Terry Funk, Jimmy Hart, Gian Gonzales,
not to mention, Sting had a season long story arc
as the primary heel. I know you guys are tough
on it, and rightfully so, because it's pretty terrible, but
it's very much in that so bad it's good category
and takes me back to pretty good place mentally.

Speaker 1 (02:38:39):
Boss do with Thunder and Paradise Journey. This is the
playlist on YouTube, he gives us with love the episodes. Wow,
it's there. Well, take a look at it. I don't
know if I'm I don't know if I can care,
but that's a lot I have. Listen, I have plans.
Although we'll see that's a tantalizing remark.

Speaker 2 (02:38:59):
They did it few two partters. He writes that I
think we're released as DVD movies. I recommended episodes. Yeah
that I that I that I know I would actually
be down with doing movies. I don't think like yeah,
like there because like the I mean we did the
original one, which was done as a movie. How many
episodes are there there?

Speaker 1 (02:39:20):
Well, no, they really actually it's not I mean it's
it's it's not awful, right, you know, it's it's twenty
twenty two episodes, which we could probably do, you know,
like the problem I'll tell you what the problem with
the problem with TV shows And this is what I
what I discovered during Twin Peaks is that there's not

(02:39:41):
a lot written about the creation of individual episodes. It's
about the show as a whole. And so while it's
you know, like it was, it was it was actually
it was hard to kind of figure out what to
say for what episodes for the Twin Peaks, for the
David Lynch tribute, because we're squeezing. I was trying to get,

(02:40:06):
you know, eight episodes of television into what four episodes
of the show, and so it's it's just it's just
hard because they it's just it's not as you know,
you've got a longer span of time where a lot
of stuff's happening at the same time versus a movie.

(02:40:27):
It's like, you know, from this period to this period,
everyone's focusing on this movie or at least I can
find information about focusing on this movie, but doing a
whole show is is that That's been That's been one
of the one of the reasons why I've been a
little bit apprehensive for doing full on seasons and why
the Twin Peaks one. Doing seven episodes was better, was easier,

(02:40:49):
you know, because there was ways to space it out.
But you know, maybe doing one of the one of
the TV movies on it'll be about it in addition
to you know what I'm thinking about out But that's interesting.
I didn't think about that. Yeah, I'm not opposed to it.
I'm not opposed to it.

Speaker 2 (02:41:04):
He recommends episode six and seven, a two parter that
mostly takes place in Epcot's Morocco and the Indian and
Jones stunt show. It's technically really bad TV. I won't
beat around the Bush brother, but I'd be lying if
I said I didn't enjoy it on a purely nostalgic level.
It also features Tuggers. Lastly, if you want to see Hogan,
oh my god, that's big. If you want to see
Hogan thirsty as fuck, I'm ruining this match with the
Jaqura Show. In nineteen ninety seven, as well as a

(02:41:27):
very random rat music video with the Quebecer's watched the
first ten minutes of this Thank you for the link.
You can find it as ww fancam footage. That was
the night that a Hogan got rolled up by Chakra
Shou in the middle of the Hollywood Hogan run.

Speaker 1 (02:41:38):
It might be interesting to do you know, because we
did do the I know, we did the first, the
first the pilot of Thunder and Paradise for the main show,
that it might be interesting. I was thinking the series
finale is also a two part a two part episode,

(02:42:01):
so that might be maybe something to consider it too fascinating.
I'm sufficiently intrigued. I'm intrigued. I'm definitely intrigued by you
do you think, especially because it's not a full on
especially because it is like a you know, I forget
that there weren't multiple seasons. It was just one season
with you know, all right, well I will I'll take

(02:42:23):
him in consideration. Here's her turning. I can hear him.
Here's turning. Yeah, I know the man gears are turning. Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:42:30):
Yeah, and sorry it was Greg not John that brought
us that missus huge doubles Cross there talked about Hasbro's
We talked about Hasbro signing with WCW maybe in ninety
one or ninety four or whatever when they left WWF. Yeah,
and someone made a good point like, Hasbro isn't about

(02:42:50):
the fucking steroid shit. You know they must have been like,
fuck this, Yeah, we don't want to make a tour
steroid monster, right, Ryan Rights, I would.

Speaker 1 (02:42:57):
Have left it.

Speaker 2 (02:42:57):
Ninety five ninety eight w CW was my favorite motion.
I think I get the idea Hasbro wanted to get
away from wrestling because of the steroids stuff. Yes, me too, Ryan,
But what about Evader Hasbro at ninety five?

Speaker 1 (02:43:07):
What about but what about the what about? What about
the cash? All right? Listen, yes they may be avoid Listen,
you're you're you're treating toy companies as if morals outweigh
the dolls.

Speaker 2 (02:43:18):
W W was hoovering up everything else. W WW had
they brought the slim GYM sponsorship over, like why not
just call Hasbro?

Speaker 1 (02:43:25):
Man? I know, because they decided to do the fucking
LJM ripoffs and the Star which just were not good.

Speaker 2 (02:43:30):
And can you imagine thinking yourself as a Hasbro kid, right,
and think of you being aware that Hogan goes to
WCW and to your point, thinking Hogan was more w
CW wrestler.

Speaker 1 (02:43:40):
They came out with I Hasbros. I dreamed. Listen, when
I was a kid, I dreamed that I would eventually
have a Hasbro with Hogan with the bright you know,
almost me on yellow hulks your shirt. Like I dreamed
that that was going to happen, Like, oh my god,

(02:44:00):
Like this is going to be crazy. We're going to
get a whole new I said, there's no reason not to.
Like I really equated Hasbro with Hogan, And I said,
and especially when I realized that they weren't coming out
with anymore and they were like nowhere to be found
in the toy stores, it's like, well, maybe WW will
do the right thing. They didn't, but I hoped, yes,

(02:44:24):
I mean cause it's kind of funny they did. You know,
those the second wave of figures were kind of like
Hasbro's but they were still big and they were clunky
and stupid, you know, because they did have They didn't
come out with a second wave of those WCW figures
where they were harder plastic. They weren't the rubber and
they did do like moves and stuff like they oddly

(02:44:49):
did the Hasbros. But just they weren't good hasbros. You know, yeah,
they kind of took a stab at it. But I
invite you to consider a stunning Steve Austin Hasbro. I
would have gotten, oh listen, I would have had it,
no question in my pocket. Done, purchased, Thank you, Okay,
thank you, happy purchased, well put. I love it so much, Matthew,

(02:45:15):
thank you very much. Yeah, because I'm looking I'm looking
at them like, yeah, like the ninety six, I'm looking
at a Hogan one that was the hard plastic with
like movable things, was still very much like the idiotic
LJN ripoffs, but there was I don't know, like try

(02:45:35):
me press button, like there was a button out pressed.
Now I don't know what the fuck is going on here,
but you know, again, nice things we can't done purchased,
not a problem. Love it, Matthew Lenetis. Thank you very
much for that pledge. We appreciate it. Welcome in.

Speaker 2 (02:45:54):
Craig writes, hull Kogi's is less than an hour from me,
and I just found out it existed, and I'm pretty
sure to create followed up with a next post that
we retweeted of the actress sign yeah his brother the
door in the window too.

Speaker 1 (02:46:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:46:08):
Christopher writes, you know that idea of w W Hasbros's genius.
Can't believe ws W never did that or at least
copy the styling. Bree wrts. This is a great point,
you know when we go through the uh the Randy
Savage on Radio WWF Knock and Hull Cogan with Jim Ross. Yes,
we did that on the March to the Mains nine.
We forgot that we did it again. That's why Master

(02:46:31):
of the Phone came off as so fucking epic, because
I think that's.

Speaker 1 (02:46:33):
Where it came from. That's fucking funny. In case you
don't know what it's like to have cast it. As
long as we've cast that's yeah right.

Speaker 2 (02:46:44):
Jeff writes, I don't know about you guys, but I
always protect my brand by having sex with my friend's
wife and spewing racial epithets. Ryan Wright's hell co chairs
Love and Bash ninety four shows between discussions and parts
one and two plus reflecting a bit and what would
happened two years later at the same event. Sadly it
appears the Orlando Arena is gone, but Ocean Center is

(02:47:04):
still there from the ninety six event. Any future pilgrimage
plans at the Ocean Center? Hey, or have you guys
been either location in the past?

Speaker 3 (02:47:13):
Now?

Speaker 2 (02:47:13):
I have not been to the Ocean Center or the
Orlando Arena, No never. I did go to the Fort
hesserli Armory in Tampa one time, though, just to look
look at the window. Yeah, I've always just look in
the wind closly going on. And you don't hear me
tell the story where I got so close to the
glass so I could see inside, and then I realized
there was shit smeared on the glass right in front
of my face.

Speaker 1 (02:47:32):
Oh my god, that's all horrible.

Speaker 2 (02:47:36):
I've always thought of WCW getting the Hasbro deal too,
starting in ninety five. It would have been so much
better than the ostms. That's original San Francisco toymakers, right.
I think maybe Hasbro wanted out of wrestling altogether after
the steroids scandals. But today, with all the Hasbro style
figures being made by Mattell and boutique companies, ww Hasbro's
do now exist to some extent, and I really hope
many more come in the next few years. Does Boss

(02:47:57):
Man still collect the Mattel retros? Has he started up
with any of the ones from the Batique brands? Boss
the what, Yes, Yes, I I I have I do.
I I got the Kurt Fuller one at UH at
Comic Con last year in New York. I do want

(02:48:18):
a bunch of them. They are so cool. I just
you know, there's a part of me that's like a
part of me that's like the apartment. It's like, yeah,
fucking really. But then there's like, I don't know, know,
it's We're at that point, man, We've gotten all the
nostalgic charge we can get out of this stuff, you know,
cod COVID just.

Speaker 1 (02:48:39):
Like like they did a fucking a whole bunch of
They did a whole bunch of uh like one of
the like they have some really cool Savage ones, And
I'm like, oh, man, Like it's like, because you know
the one thing that I I I am always bummed
about with with again this is this is this is

(02:49:01):
this is a unique thing being a ninety one WWE
fan like coming into matt Era because everyone for the
most part loves Randy Savage from the late eighties with
the robe, the headband, the regular wrestling trunks, right, I

(02:49:24):
don't like that. I like the fully clothed Savage from
nineteen ninety two. That's, you know, the Savage who was
wearing clothes because he was embarrassed about his lack of
steroid body. That to me is quintessential Randy Savage. And
the only Randy Savage they made at hasbro of Like

(02:49:45):
that is awful. Right, it's one of the pushdown ones.
You know, the hat on his head, You get the
hat on his head to get the make him looking right,
the fucking with you, I know. But now they've got people,
they've done some of those that look like that, like
they've got hold together. They got Savage. I shut up,

(02:50:08):
I mean you do, that's what you want? I know,
I do.

Speaker 3 (02:50:12):
I know.

Speaker 1 (02:50:13):
They get Savage in his WrestleMania eight attire, like it's
it's so great and they got one like hey, they
just just as amazing these retro figures. They do a
great job with them. Somebody say it like it's so
unfortunate that they do a great job with them, because

(02:50:34):
I can't just dismiss it, get right, because I want
it now. And it's like, come on, I can't forty yes,
except there have so many. I've seen the studio. I know,
I know it's a mess, and I love them and
I want more. Let's fucking go. You want to talk

(02:50:57):
about the sickness, No, that's it is. It's the sickness
of having this. Look. I'm going to send you. I'm
going to send you one here. Look this, this is
like this is what they they make now in these things,
and like they're just so great looking, you know, opening
Savage in his WrestleMania to go okay, oh fuck, it

(02:51:22):
looks incredible. Rights, it kind of does look like Steve
Williams about the head, though, man, I don't care. It's
it's the color of the and it's the fact that
it's you know, uh sleeves, the sleeves are tasseled and yeah, yeah,
it's all those things. And look at this other one,

(02:51:42):
like these two here, like they just they look so great,
they really are. And and so it just what position
does that put you in? Exactly? Like what are you
supposed to do with this? Holy shit? Here's here's another
one like this is like, this is this is the problem.
Hold on, I'm going to send you this one. Now,
this is the problem. He says, this is, this is,

(02:52:04):
this is the problem. These are the problems that that
you know, these people put on adults like me who
just you know, don't want to be an adult, right,
you know this is that was fucking perfect, perfect delivery.

(02:52:28):
This one, now, this is just fucking fantastic, Like this
is the uh, this is the Mall's version of Zoro,
of one that I remember reading a night Like that's
what he is, that fucking People magazine, the Mall's version
of Zora. I'll never forget that People magually not knowing
who Randy Savage is and calling him the Mall's version
of Zoro. Idiots, fucking morons, like he's got checkered floor

(02:52:57):
for an outfit. Yeah, Like, I just why are you
doing these things? Man? Why are you making them so great?
Just it's a curse. It's a curse. And the thing is,
you know, I'll tell you what, I definitely have an
easier time buying them if they didn't cost forty bucks.

Speaker 2 (02:53:17):
I mean, I have to say, like one of the
best parts of the Unwrappiding every Christmas is when we
split the bounty at the end and see your face
be like, I'll take that one, like you know you
want it.

Speaker 1 (02:53:30):
I don't care. I'll have it. I I'll have to
have that. Fine, fine, all right, I'll take that one.
Just fucking don't say anything about this. I just I
just kind of really want it. I just want it.
When I assess it, I want all Like listen, I
want them all. I know is that art like like

(02:53:50):
like they say, collect them all? Yeah, I want them all.
All right, I want them all. Where do we go
from here? But I can't. Right, they have they they
have a series of bulldog ones too, like they've got
they've got whoever, you know, I don't know all the
companies that do them, but they got so many different
companies that are making these these these you know, Mack Hasbros.

(02:54:12):
And there was one. They're there there they have they
have nineteen ninety four British bulldog, so with the the
biker shorts and the unbraided hair. You know they've got
they got a ninety five ninety six bulldog. I think
they got one with yeah, short hair, and I think

(02:54:34):
they got one with Diana. Okay, they've got one. They've
got a a ninety seven bulldogs with the Heart Foundation vastly.

Speaker 2 (02:54:47):
Supposed to do with this man, right, like an emergency.
It's not just that they had they made one more
bulldog and I can get a different bulldog Hasbro we
had do they make six of them? And they're all money?

Speaker 1 (02:55:02):
They made them all, they made them all all money.
They just they just yeah, because they're right, just fuck.

Speaker 3 (02:55:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:55:13):
Do they ever make any Hogan offshoots? That would be
very complicated from licensing perspective, And I don't think Yeah.
I don't think they ever did, because it's uh yeah,
Marvel has something to say about that, right. Ryan also writes, also,
do you think Fins thought at one point Hogan would
be back in ninety four to the FED? I mean
they did keep selling his merchant the magazine pretty late
in the ninety three, plus he had Hasbro figure and

(02:55:35):
then Standard Line that year, plus the mail away for
Christmas ninety three. Anyway, thanks guys, and thank you for
whole comania. Well, I wouldn't be surprised. It's a great bulldog.
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm gonna show that the back
here too. Look at the back the back of our foundations.
That's perfect, absolutely perfect. I mean, what the we're looking
at the guy who won the European title. You know,

(02:55:57):
we're looking at the guy who, right, you know, who mattered,
and I gotta spend forty bucks to get it? Okay,
well there it goes right out the window.

Speaker 1 (02:56:11):
So I mean, I can't. I can't there there there
there are certain things I can't, you know, explain to
my wife.

Speaker 2 (02:56:19):
That's the real stressor of it all, exactly exactly what
it is, like I you can't explain it to yourself.
I mean you can, but it's still not good enough
for a reason. Right, And so I was like, where
did what is this thing? Where did you spend forty
bucks at this?

Speaker 1 (02:56:32):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (02:56:33):
You don't?

Speaker 1 (02:56:34):
I'm gonna hold it and look at it. But but
you understand, like you know, my office, I just gotta
have a match with I gotta you know, I gotta
have a match with Sean Michaels. An emergency European you know,
European forty is an emergency. It is Listen, it's a
major problem, like a major problem. Like there, yeah, call

(02:57:00):
the authorities.

Speaker 2 (02:57:01):
Okay, look, I think they would have run all that
stuff for Hogan's merch just to clear out inventory. Anyway,
that's he was with the company till like late August technically,
so there's that too. We just didn't see it in
the States. Yeah, I think Vince probably thought Hulk would
come back. I mean, one of the things we covered
during Bash of the Beach was Vince had matching rights

(02:57:21):
and there was conversations. It wasn't like Vince was like, fuck,
you go to sign whatever you want with ww I
don't want to hear about it. They were back and
forth until the end, and I just think that, you know,
the stuff in ninety three does indicate that that Vince
saw the future with them together. I just don't think
he thought it would take as long as it did.

(02:57:43):
Zach asks, can we get a Hulk HOGI shirt?

Speaker 1 (02:57:45):
Please? I don't know if we'll get in trouble for
that one, but maybe it depends on how we Possibly
it's possible to do sis right.

Speaker 2 (02:57:53):
That's how I experienced most of the Hogan era. I
started watching wrestling wrestling at WrestleMania seven. My brother reunted
the pay per view tapes from eighty five to ninety
and I caught up as best I could. That's why
I have a soft spot for the new generation, because
I'm like the Hogan era. I experience it week to
week as it happened. Yes, exactly, Vinces and Andrew writes,
he says competitive organization instead of competitor. I thought that

(02:58:13):
was a great catch, because to call it a competitor
is to put him on a pedestal of actually being
somebody that you know, competes for your business. But if
you call it a competitive organization, that makes it sound
like a group that wants to think of itself as
being competitive in nature, but doesn't quite rise to the
level of you calling it your competitor, which I think
is just That's as Vince McMahon as it gets the

(02:58:34):
difference between competitor and competitive organization.

Speaker 1 (02:58:37):
The terminology is key, key, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:58:43):
Daniel just thrilled by the latest edition of Wrestle Mammia
with Mama Sorrow and the Moat Tier on the Ultimate
Warrior Versus Knobs episode.

Speaker 1 (02:58:53):
Yes, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:58:54):
Yeah, I haven't listened to this one yet, but Daniel
says Mama Sorrow and her moral commentary on this one
was worse a five am start to the day.

Speaker 1 (02:59:05):
Do you know what he's talking about? I listen, listen.
It wouldn't be a Wrestle Mammy without my mom's moral commentary.
But I I don't actually recall what specifically.

Speaker 3 (02:59:18):
Oh man, this is.

Speaker 1 (02:59:20):
That's tremendously that's just what awaits you, right yep, oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:59:26):
Under the the mote tier. It's it's really fucking amazing.
Anybody who got a taste of Mama Sorrow as part
of our a w O Lacard live calls, you know
what's going on. And that's the thing about Wrestle Mamia. Man,
there ain't nothing more consistent in the Labstand solar system
than that Monday Wrestle Mammia drop. Oh yes, you can
set your watch to it, boss.

Speaker 1 (02:59:45):
You can. You can listen every Monday, every Monday.

Speaker 3 (02:59:50):
This is you know.

Speaker 1 (02:59:51):
This is why I have heard comments in the past
about about like wait when was this recorded? Well, you know,
we got a we got a record and batch, so
we are we are months and months and months ahead
of time. So I mean I can tell you right
now that there are shows loaded until the beginning of

(03:00:11):
next summer.

Speaker 2 (03:00:14):
Okay, So that's how we roll. I think that pretty
much says it all. Joshua fairly said it all by
putting that VIP pledge on the table and joining us
on that corner of things. Andrew writes The beauty of
TLF as that they'll come across one small trait that
tells you everything. For Eric Bischoff, it's that he's a
man who loves to take meetings. For most of us,

(03:00:39):
of us, I think, you know, taking a meeting is
is a step towards a goal.

Speaker 1 (03:00:44):
It's not the goal. But I think with Eric it's
probably the goal. It is the goal.

Speaker 2 (03:00:48):
He just he just closes that surface after a zoom
meeting man, and he's like, oh, that's a honest day's.

Speaker 1 (03:00:53):
Worker there, he's he is so fucking thrilled, so fucking
thrilled with a day.

Speaker 2 (03:01:00):
Andrew continues, the peak of his life was when he
had a secretary. He could utter the phrase set up
a meeting with blank. Two, he set up a meeting
with Oh, he loves it, he loves it. Ah, I
want to vomit.

Speaker 1 (03:01:11):
They're meeting takers. I mean they're fine. Yeah, yeah, Well,
brother Mike wants us to know that.

Speaker 2 (03:01:17):
Regarding Jimmy Hart's value, we spend a bit of time
in the Bash of the Beach Show wondering why Hulk
Cochin tap Jimmy on the show. He says, Bruce Ritchard
has talked about Jimmy helping with things that weren't his
job title and being happy to do it. He did
many of the wrestler's themes with Jim Johnston agent's matches
despite that not being his responsibility.

Speaker 1 (03:01:34):
That I know that I'm fine with. It's it's it's
actually having the ability to manage somebody's career and like
the day to day life that's different than anyways. He
maybe he goes into that. No, that's about the sum
of it.

Speaker 2 (03:01:49):
He also said, you know, always being early before everybody else,
and I guess maybe you know, managing someone's career when
you're hul Coagan, all that really takes is making sure
he gets where's supposed to be on time, and people
he doesn't want to talk to or kept away from him.
And I bet Jimmy Hard can do that.

Speaker 1 (03:02:03):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but like in terms of yeah,
I it just it just seems like again, you know,
I know, I know that Jimmy Hart's got some credibility
in other places, and I know that he's worked on
he used to work on the theme songs and stuff
like that. But yeah, but to be able to like
basically be the go to person for somebody, you know,

(03:02:25):
like you know, the filter to me that that that
like I just needed. I want to know more about
like where where he learned that trade, where he became
respected or was well known enough to be like, yeah,
you know what, Jimmy Hart's the guy we need. So
in the same way, you know, like any of these guys,

(03:02:45):
it's not even just Jimmy Hard, any of these guys
Like where did that? Why? Why did that happen? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:02:51):
Yeah, it's it's interesting to see Jimmy Hard on the
stage on the SmackDown tribute, you know, front and center,
dagging his eyes, crying his eyes out. I mean, this
guy made his whole thing about being Hulk Hogan's hype
man basically, and I don't know, maybe one day he
saw Hulk do something he shouldn't have been doing, and
Hulk's warmed his secrecy in exchange for a lifetime job.
That's the kind of thing that tends to happen.

Speaker 1 (03:03:13):
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that either.

Speaker 2 (03:03:14):
Putting that potential on the table as well, Stephen writes,
you know, I imagine a major grip gripe that Hogan
sent Jimmy to Eric with was people standing behind him
and lingering for a second.

Speaker 1 (03:03:26):
I've been here for a while, dude. One thing I've
really you know, and they don't do it this way
in New York. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, Listen,
I'm just saying, was a very very you know that
was heard a lot. That was heard a lot by
Eric Bischoff. Right, I'm just saying by Hulk Hogan, they

(03:03:47):
could have been his third book. Eric, Hulk's just saying again, brother,
you know, I'm just saying, dude, you know right, you do, brother,
you do you dude. I'm not trying to criticize. I'm
not trying to tell you what better, brother, But I'm
just saying, I'm just saying, dude, that in New York
they did it better.

Speaker 5 (03:04:07):
Fan Wrestling podcast the wrestling podcast that knows the boys

(03:04:40):
need their candy. It's the Lapsed Fan. He's an Lapsed

(03:05:16):
fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carno and Jpro.

Speaker 2 (03:05:21):
So, you know, if you want to say that, if
you want to ignore my suggestion, just know you're little
leaguing yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:05:28):
Visa VI. The real wrestling in New York. That's basically,
I just don't want you to be a bitch, all right,
I don't want you to be perceived as a bitch.
Like you know, all those guys know they're going to say,
you know, what's up with that, Eric, he's a bitch. Oh,
they're gonna say that, Terry. Well, I'm trying nothing about that.

Speaker 2 (03:05:46):
Oh I see, trying to prevent them from saying it. Okay,
all right, well I'll just say one to the head.
Appears you failed like a pile driver. Thank you very
much for that increase to the eptre Bez writes, the
co chairs don't just do impressions. They almost seemed to
become the person. I felt like I was really listening
to Ready Savage talking to Jim Ross. Well, you felt

(03:06:07):
like it was Ready Savage talking to somebody. I'm not
sure that jed our impression was there, Yeah, but we
appreciate that. That that's part of the magic. You're going
to see with your own two eyes. August third, a
comedy village in New York. It's damn right, You're damn
fucking right. It's one thing to hear it, friends, but
to see to see it. Pop visually. I think is
something that anyone who's come to one of our live
shows before Convouts for is being worth the price of

(03:06:27):
admission alone. Yeah, Steve says being a fan. Became a
fan in late two thousand and one. So I witnessed
the Attitude era initially completely through tape and DVD. So
I invite you to think about you know, we just
want to talk about how we became acquainted with the
eighties Hulkamania through tape. Yes, what about people who became
familiar with the Attitude era through tape?

Speaker 1 (03:06:47):
Oh, I mean that's just that's that's painful. I mean
that's painful. I mean I just don't imagine how you
could do it. It's so much, so much more volume
of stuff. Yeah, like how do you weekly tell it?
It's insane weekly television. But also just the idea that
if you're watching, you know, I had to watch four
pay per views to get a whole w B year,

(03:07:07):
but you have to get twelve to fourteen depending on
UK shows. If that interest you, absolutely right. So that's
I don't know, man, that's rough.

Speaker 2 (03:07:15):
That's a whole Yeah, that's a whole steeper hill than
we ever had to climb to get up to date.
That's for damn sure.

Speaker 1 (03:07:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:07:22):
Steve also notes because of the progressing Illustrated article that
we read from on our Bash at the Beach ninety
four episode that had Hogan and Flair on the cover
and got all the buzz started. Yes, Bill Watts of
all people, was quoted in there about how big it
would be if Hulkan Rick could come together and do
a promotional vehicle together. And Steve makes a great point
in saying that Bill Watts is quoted about the Hogan jump,
as he spent a good twenty minutes of each mid
eighties episode of Mid South calling Hogan a poor actor

(03:07:43):
and a fraud.

Speaker 3 (03:07:44):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:07:45):
Oh yeah, he was going off on Hogan back then,
and it's funny, but that's the wrestling business. Hogan, who
face recently joined the mote tier, and we want to
thank him very much. Tony Gelder will see you. We'll
see you in fucking New York. Oh yeah, Tim, we'll
see you, he says, good afternoon, gentlemen. Submitted for your
approval is my receipt for a purchase of a ticket

(03:08:06):
to your show at Comedy Village. Because this is and
always continues to be not a fucking game.

Speaker 1 (03:08:12):
Damn right.

Speaker 2 (03:08:13):
He had missed out on the previous installments of t
F branded Comedic Prophetic Live Entertainment Experienced vehicles. But that
ends August third. You have been in my years and
up my ass through some of the most difficult years
of my life. And now it's time to do the
right thing, he writes, and take the ride down to
pay proper tribute at the Church of the Lapsed. So
shall it be written, So shall it be done?

Speaker 1 (03:08:31):
You bay, there we go, and now we're talking some
sweet ten commandments there brother, thank you both for eleven
years of lapse to see you there.

Speaker 2 (03:08:38):
We'll see you there. Very excited about this, very much
called four. Oh yes, James writes. My nominees for most
irrelevant ljnfigure? Yes, who did we pick? For those who
might not have caught it yet?

Speaker 1 (03:08:52):
For LJN figure? Oh god, who it was? Somebody we
had outback jack win? Maybe I think outback Jack one.
Have you considered SD Jones? You know, the thing about st.
Jones is that he was at WRESTLINGIA one. Oh my god,
So do that qualify something?

Speaker 5 (03:09:07):
You know?

Speaker 1 (03:09:07):
That makes him a little bit different, But it's valid.
It's it's not a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (03:09:12):
It reports St Jones even had a variation figure, which
I did not know. That's not okay, that's not okay
to do two different Yeah, what do you who's buying it?

Speaker 1 (03:09:20):
What are you doing? Yeah? One one is enough with
SD okay? And what was our final verdict on the
most what the fuck? Has Bro's? Probably skinny? We it
was skinner it was it might have been Repo man.

Speaker 2 (03:09:33):
Oh yeah, that one really hit me too. That they
came on someone else else is a good one. Someone
came with a new foundation Jim knightheart. Oh yeah, Actually,
you know, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (03:09:44):
Guys? You know weird? I mean, because yeah, you know
that's not that's not bad, because you know he was
new foundation for like what two months? It was old
foundation by the time it hit the shell exactly, it
really was. It was who gives a fuck foundation by
the time it hit the shelves. Let me tell you
I made that. I made my herd foundation. You even
drew on, did you? I drew I drew a black
tank top on him with a sharpie so that he

(03:10:07):
could look more like Brett, so I could have my
heart foundation. You needed heart foundation? Yeah, yeah, that was
the exciting part about having Jim Nightheart. I never found
O one hard until you know, much later in life.
What a travesty that there wasn't a Brett Hasbro till
as late as there was. I know, what are they thinking?
Why wasn't there a Brette Hasbro in ninety one? I
don't know, that's really strange to me. It's ridiculous, honestly,

(03:10:31):
Like he that seems like a like a like just
an easy and easy, an easy one. You know, I
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (03:10:39):
I mean, I guess I know if I think hard
enough about the calendar as far as when they were together,
but maybe not. Why would there be Rockers demolition with Crush?
Why would there be a Legion of Doom? Why would
there be all these Hasbro tag teams and not a
Heart Foundation one?

Speaker 1 (03:10:51):
Yeah, I mean they didn't start doing it. I guess
it's interesting too, you know when when the when the
Hasbro's first came out in nineteen ninety, you know, it's
funny that they had demolition they did that they beat
basically at SummerSlam, I know, so they didn't have the
they didn't have the Crush one yet TI ninety one
that's true. In nineteen ninety, it was it was just

(03:11:12):
acts and smashing the single like. They didn't have a
tag team set. It was just the single figures.

Speaker 2 (03:11:17):
But still, oh really, let's make a rhythm and blues
tag team. Even though the hammered Valentine figure never hit
the shelves before, we make a hard foundation.

Speaker 1 (03:11:25):
It's very it's strange, it's so.

Speaker 2 (03:11:28):
Strange, unacceptable, Chuck writes, listening to each of the a
la carte in order. I think it was towards the
end of Tony Mercedes I realized that this match, being
the greatest live call of all time was inevitable, and
anticipation only grew from there. Somehow it still exceeded all
my expectations all time classic. Yeah, it was once that
one was over, I'm like, all right, this was a
good idea, especially when Tony berries her face and Sasha's

(03:11:51):
crotch and your mom has.

Speaker 1 (03:11:52):
To react to that. Oh yes, listen, there there are
some beautiful, beautiful, beautiful things.

Speaker 2 (03:11:58):
How about the Dominio's points. I wasn't expecting the majority
of this call to be Mama Sorrow calling out the
legality and values of America. Then JP saying quote because
they signed a contract and it was notarized. That's why
how this is okay. Of course, referring to Adam Page
getting stabbing John Moxley in the head.

Speaker 1 (03:12:15):
Of the foot because it's not her eyes, it's fucking
I do get such great pleasure in just trying to
just talk about legalities in regards to wrestling, that they
signed away their rights because when they decided to do
this match, and therefore that's why everything they do is legal.

(03:12:37):
That's why you can't call the police and you.

Speaker 2 (03:12:39):
Talk to her as if, like everyone else in society
understands this about the nature of contractual law and combats.

Speaker 1 (03:12:45):
Why don't you mom right?

Speaker 2 (03:12:47):
Sorry, if we've got to go through CIVIX one on one,
I guess we'll do it. Julian Wilson, thank you for
joining the EPTRE. We appreciate the cake. Matt Anderson, we
appreciate you son. Frank Kirshner, thank.

Speaker 1 (03:12:56):
You so much. What about Adam Baum did he not
have a He did? He had a hasbro.

Speaker 2 (03:13:01):
You know what, he was a big enough, colorful enough,
he had a push. He wasn't like a permanent job
or like Skinner and repel Man. Yeah, I think that's
what's so weird about it is these aren't guys that
had winning streaks, These guys that really you would watch
WWF television and get excited about what they were going
to do next.

Speaker 1 (03:13:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:13:19):
Yeah, So I don't get with all the options they
had while they picked certain guys that that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (03:13:25):
Listen, I agree.

Speaker 2 (03:13:26):
I mean, what do you how about we make a
Skinner toy before Brett Hart toy for instance, or a.

Speaker 1 (03:13:30):
Berserker right, great one Berserker one? And also, you know, listen,
I think, why didn't Tito have one years before? Why
to El Matador? Yeah, why isn't there a strike Force one? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:13:43):
I bet if we looked at it hard enough, there's
probably a two month period where they decided on most
of the line and who was on TV, and that
two month period is who got figures. And it's just
totally arbitrary. It doesn't stretch as far left to right.

Speaker 1 (03:13:55):
But I guess I guess what makes like the ones
like Skinner and what and repel Man is that you know,
you think if Skinner's run really is from fall of
ninety one up until WrestleMania with a little fucking couple
of things here and there. The same thing with Repo Man,
like well repe Man at least I guess went to SummerSlam.
But like these figures came out like in ninety three.

(03:14:21):
That's what makes it even weirder is that they may
I mean, I know it probably took a little bit
longer to make sure to make the figures, but like
the they came out. I'm going to get the exact
dates here because I need to know now. It just
it's just wacky to me that that that that they

(03:14:42):
came out so late. They got the oh yeah, hear
this so serious? This is serious. Series I don't know
when Series three came out, but not so series Series five.
Series five is Skinner now that came out in ninety three,

(03:15:03):
maybe even ninety four, ninety three. I'm gonna say, like
late ninety three, that had Virgil the war I mean,
these guys are gone. Virgil the Warlord, the MOUNDI Irwin
the Model, Rick Martel had one, don't forget it, had
one well after he was gone. Yeah, that's just what

(03:15:23):
the weird thing is. The you know, the flare one
was well after he was gone.

Speaker 2 (03:15:27):
Bizarre, very bizarre. They must have been they must have
been deeply frustrated at Hasbro. They get this figure on
the shelves so that they think is going to sell
and the guy's gout of the company. Yep, even if
it's a main event. Guy, you think you're safe there? Well, yeah,
the mysteries of the Hasbro world. Indeed, now you asked
one point, like you got to split the gum out.

(03:15:47):
If you're wrestling, you can't put chewing gum. It makes
it too fake. Remember when what we're talking about that? Yes, yes,
Well the homie Scott Michael had a good point. He said,
The one thing I'll say in defensive gum chewing is
that it has been a game changer for me and
my asthma lungs. If I'm doing card or an intense workout,
my throat dries up quickly by breathing is ass and
then I start coughing. Chewing gum helps me to keep
the saliva going and almost keeps makes me feel like

(03:16:08):
I can breathe normally.

Speaker 1 (03:16:10):
Listen. That I totally get. But I'm talking about being
in a fight. Oh yeah, yeah, well he says, you're
in a fight, are you chewing gum? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:16:20):
Probably not, even if you're afraid you're going to gag.
But the thing is the mouthpiece, like you can't. That's
the thing about I'm thinking to fight sports. Of course,
something in a boxing running right, he says. You know, now,
I mean, if I was in a real fight, I
probably wouldn't be chewing in case I get knocked out
and ended up choking on that shit. But none of
these dudes are in real fights.

Speaker 1 (03:16:36):
Yes, that is I mean, it is true, but that's
the whole point that they're supposed to be pretend that
they're in real fights.

Speaker 2 (03:16:41):
But I will tend differently in the future at wrestlers
chewing gum if it does indeed help, you know, prevent
gagging and stuff. Because I remember there was one UFC fighter,
I think he never made it anywhere, but he was
on he was on one of the old fighter reality shows,
and the guy could not keep the mouthpiece in. He
just gagged every time he had the mouthpiece. He was
it was a huge issue because my mouthpiece falls out.

(03:17:02):
The referees kind of obliged to stop the fight and
put it back in. That's supposed to, you know, not
only help protect you against knockouts and keep your jaw flex,
but you know, you lose all your fucking teeth and
two fights you don't have that thing in your in
your mouth. It was like it was a disaster. They
had to like stop the fight like a hundred times,
and it was like, how do we know he's not
doing it on purpose? You know, it's crazy. So that's

(03:17:23):
there are wrestlers out there who would get you know,
that dry mouth or have trouble breathing, even though it
does make it look fake. I guess it's it's either
true gum or don't make a living as a pro wrestler.

Speaker 1 (03:17:32):
I guess yeah, I guess it.

Speaker 2 (03:17:35):
So the homie butt stuff and Heen and I think
they should bring in a wrestler to be l A
Knight's stag partner and call him La Day. You could
call the team the La Times. Oh, that's definitely a team.
Jack Coil get into thank you. He also things I
think jelly Rolls whole marketing employee is I've been through

(03:17:55):
some tough times and I have tattoos to show for it.
He says, if you're a covering metha crack cocaine addict
and you've done some jail time, Jelly Roll is your guy,
especially if you want to come out and like, you know,
if you want to come out and just like stop
other people from get becoming addicts, you know, like save people,

(03:18:15):
you know.

Speaker 1 (03:18:16):
If that's great, just stay out of the wrestling ring.

Speaker 2 (03:18:19):
Oh my god, you're ready for any ready for him
at to wrestle at Summerslim. You know about this, right, No,
he's been doing angles with Logan, Paul and smack Down
every week. He's been throwing four arms, he's been getting physical. No,
he's been doing he's doing the Tennessee twang on the promos.

Speaker 1 (03:18:35):
I don't know about you, Logan. I think you're a
bitch Loogan. Oh man, just why why is he doing this?

Speaker 2 (03:18:42):
And like or loves being associated with a real celebrity
you know, of course he does. And I don't know
if this will change by the time we get to
a live call. But they put McIntyre in as as
Paul's partner for the match, and then McIntyre goes home
to England or the UK for a wedding and due
to passport issues, he's stuck in the country and he

(03:19:03):
probably can't make it to Summer Slam.

Speaker 1 (03:19:05):
That I did, I did see that one. I did
see that.

Speaker 2 (03:19:09):
That's modern wrestling, man, What the fuck? There's always some
stupid bullshit. If someone getting hurt doing a totally basic move,
you know, some like arbitrary reason that, like something that
you're you're built up to look forward to, totally doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (03:19:24):
It's so ridiculous. Wait, why are you letting the guys
go to weddings? It's a good question. Why are you
doing that? I thought I'd go to a wedding the
week before sommer slab. All right, well maybe it was
as good pal I'm sure as Bal was happy he
was there. Yeah, but now the fans what are what
the fans?

Speaker 5 (03:19:42):
I know?

Speaker 2 (03:19:43):
Now we're not gonna get who on the live call,
which is definitely a loss for everybody. Brent Ericson, thank
you very much for bumping up to the moat tier.
That's a big veiny move of you, and we noticed it.
James Cordy, thanks you very much for your support on
patreon dot com slash the lapsed fans. Same to you,
Caleb him and Chris Erba, thank you very much for
your respective pledges. Kevin writes most WTFLJN. He submits out

(03:20:06):
back Jack at LJN he proudly owns. So there's a
vote for that. Adam writes modern day ted arcity looks
like he knows too much about the dark Web.

Speaker 1 (03:20:18):
Yeah, I can see that. Zach wants to know. You
know who else changed the locks? Barry Oberwitzah. Zach also writes.

Speaker 2 (03:20:35):
He's the one who's wtf Hasbro's high energy Jim in
the anvil? So that's where that came from. Okay, so
put them one in the category there. And he also
says Dan Spivey would be walking and in the middle
of his walk it starts pouring rain. He doesn't change
his gait or pace in the slightest, just a tiny
smile forms on his face. Yes, he says, Spivey talking

(03:20:57):
like he just discovered the concept of free will. And
a BWF magazine interview is pretty outstanding. That's available to
you as part of the Colosseum collection Best of the
Wwfelony Mate and the Short Lived Attempt to Make Dan
Spivey Well, Dan Hogan and Jeff wonders, is that blonde
Dan Spivey or Martin short playing Jackie Rogers Junior? Is

(03:21:18):
that Wayla Mercy? Or is it Walton Goggins. I mean,
which is a great point, Joe writes co chairs listening
to the new Colosseum collection when talking about if Dan
Spivey became Dan Hogan. As I was painting my garage
and I almost fell off a ladder because I have
an uncle with that name and who, despite giving me

(03:21:41):
ship for the last thirty three years about my love
of scripted athletics, bought me my first galubes in nineteen
nins right, shout out to uncle jo uncle Dan.

Speaker 1 (03:21:48):
Hogan, Dan Hogan, that would have been the name. That
would have been the name for Spivey, kind of like
Evad Sullivan. You know, I know, I'll like to introduce
you brother to my uncle Dan Hogan. Dude, what did
he have a nephew? Nephew Horace Hogan?

Speaker 2 (03:22:08):
And yeah, oh man, just fucking we talked about We
talked about Rusty Brooks for the one and only time
because he's in a coliseum wrestling Hulk Hogan in a
ten second TV match before Randy Savage jumps Hulk, and
Greg writes two things about Rusty Brooks. One, the WWF
often booked him on Florida shows because he provided or

(03:22:28):
rented out the ring to them.

Speaker 1 (03:22:29):
I didn't know that. That's interesting. Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:22:31):
And he also portrayed a Mario character in i w
CCW called super Duper Mario. Oh no, and that those
are some unfortunate YouTube videos if you can find them,
let me tell you that. Oh the ladies and gentlemen.
Rusty Brooks, Okay, we've definitely checked that box Rus Brooks.
Rustin is exactly washer wonders. Has there ever been a
more different contract two gimmicks in the same body as

(03:22:53):
laps dance bivey and lapsed Whale and Mercy Aby lapsed
dolely and lapsed Doly.

Speaker 1 (03:23:00):
That's that's that is definitely true. So that's definitely true.

Speaker 2 (03:23:05):
But you know who isn't kind of two faced and
who comes off consistently in just exactly one way every
single time, no matter what you say to him?

Speaker 1 (03:23:13):
Who Zach brought it to us?

Speaker 3 (03:23:17):
This is w w E Hall of Famer Tito Santana
giving a shout out to Jack as me by Zach.

Speaker 4 (03:23:30):
So you're right back in the nineties the body Jesse
Ventura used to say, I used to sell tacos in Tijuana. Well,
Jesse was a great commentator and a great wrestler who
did say that? Plus a bunch of other stuff, But no, Jack,
I was born in Mission, Texas.

Speaker 1 (03:23:52):
I was a migrant. I worked in the fields. I
wish I was a good cook. I wish I could
cook in Schilada's like my mom, But I can't.

Speaker 3 (03:24:02):
My mom, Mexican mom, wouldn't let the boys do anything
in the kitchen. She did everything for us.

Speaker 1 (03:24:11):
May she rest in peace.

Speaker 4 (03:24:13):
So you're right, Jesse, the body which ends up to
be a really good friend of mine.

Speaker 1 (03:24:21):
I hope I answered your question, Jack, I.

Speaker 2 (03:24:26):
Can only what I like to do is like reverse
engineer what the questions were, because I see the answers
before I see the questions. Yes, and he must have
asked him like, did you did you grow up in
Mexico selling tacos?

Speaker 1 (03:24:37):
Were you ever a taco vendor?

Speaker 3 (03:24:39):
Esse?

Speaker 1 (03:24:39):
Jesse Ventura clanned? And can you make uncolentary Enchiladas? I
guess are very good? I guess that's a great question. Really.
I mean, if there's one thing I didn't know about you?
So do you make? Do you make Enchilada's? Big fan
of Enchilada's since I started living down in Mexico. Hey, Hey, Hey, Chico. Hey,

(03:25:07):
now wait just a minute, now, wait, just you're gonna
tell me. You're gonna tell me Chevani that Chico Santana
never sold tacos in Tijuana. I wasn't born yesterday. I

(03:25:29):
wasn't I wasn't born in Mexico, but I do live there.
William says, sids epidermous fluid contains baby oil, vienna juice warmed,
not gelatinous, as if it was heated in the microwave,
round up and infield dirt. I mean it's round round

(03:25:53):
is a tough, tough one that one hits I I
you know, and I also think part of it is
to of Sid's skin. You know, when you cook a
hot dog a little too long and then you let
it sit out and it gets all shrivey and like
tough and crunchy. Gross. Right now, that's part of it
right there, that Sid.

Speaker 2 (03:26:16):
So they are from Tito Santana, thank you very much.
Always good to hear from I think I think we
can say, boss, it's always good to hear from Tito, right, yes,
it is always, especially when it's unexpected. Christopher says, I
feel like I'm having a coliseum colonoscopy and I'm not
saying stop, I'm just saying more Miralaxe, and he said, fascinatingly,

(03:26:37):
write this one down for the upcoming the complete Hull Cogan.
Hogan did challenge for the Intercontinental.

Speaker 1 (03:26:43):
Title outside of the Wrestlmini six match in nineteen eighty one.
Whoa against two Pedro Morales and none of Wow than
look at that? Can we deal with that?

Speaker 3 (03:27:00):
No?

Speaker 1 (03:27:01):
No, I cannot.

Speaker 2 (03:27:02):
Andrew noticed the lapsed editor article for the mailbag. Hello,
I formally submit the attached article from the Atlanta Constitution, Atlanta, Georgia, Sunday,
October twenty second, nineteen seventy eight, just around the time
Hogan would have arrived down there, with the following excerpt. Today,
the sport of kings has become rosslin, as practiced by
the National Wrestling Alliance and other similar federations of promoters
throughout the country. Wrestling today is considered by many to

(03:27:23):
be more theater than sport. You ready for the quote
from Atlantic Constitution Executive Sports editor Paul Body, please, As
the paper notes, echoing the policies of numerous newspapers, the
quote is we don't cover it because it's a feature event.
It's a set script the promoters already know what the

(03:27:47):
outcome will be. Oh, yes they do, Yes they do.

Speaker 1 (03:27:55):
Putting that quote in an article just amazing. I have
no problem with it shadows whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (03:28:01):
To Andre who took the time to make a image
of what the Dance Spivey book we suggested might look like.
I don't know if you remember the title we suggested, Boss,
but I don't put it in the chat while you
just you just said the word right there. I need
to take a good look at what a score one

(03:28:25):
for a I R.

Speaker 1 (03:28:25):
On this one. I have to say, tell him, tell
him what you're.

Speaker 6 (03:28:33):
Saying, tell him what you see. It got fucking wail
and mercy dance Spiby sitting with his elbows on his.

Speaker 1 (03:28:47):
Knees, his his his his hands clapped together, and his
like leaning on it with his chin behind him. Is
the word don't underneath don't. This is the book title.
Don't is this book tip? And the subtitle is long
Strides and Low Ambition. Dan Spivey guy has no chance

(03:29:10):
showing up on that tape when he did, no chance. None. Listen,
it's totally fucked all right. Fucking shirt too. That that
shirt is hilarious. I mean I'll tell you this is
this is what AI is all is all about. Yeah,
all right to me, this is what AI needs to be.
It's this or or what you know Tim's shirt and

(03:29:31):
I do. We'll text each other, you know, something will
something will spawn some topic and we'll start sending each other. Yes,
AI images of film composers wrestling. Oh, I can see that.
I'm like John Williams, like, of course, trying to make

(03:29:54):
trying to make Hans Zimmer submit in order they have
a ladder match, and it's just like, it's just fucking
it's so, it's just it's crazy, it's absurd. But that's
that's what AI is good for. Yeah, stop taking jobs.

Speaker 2 (03:30:11):
That's pretty much it. You know what, TKO isn't good
for wrestling? According to Josh from Knoxville, Tennessee, I'd like
you to share his well well phrased sentiments with the
Solar System boss.

Speaker 1 (03:30:25):
There you go, okay, dear CoA chairman. Since the TKO merger,
WWE has become less of a wrestling company and more
of a branded content wasteland designed by people who wouldn't
know a wristlock from a wristwatch. It's not storytelling. It's
corporate LARPing. What's LARPing? I don't know LARPing. I think

(03:30:49):
it's like carping. Oh okay, let me let me take
a look. Actually I don't know. And and not the
fun kinda oh I see, oh I see. I uh,
and not the fun kind. This is excel sheet wrestling,
booked by market analysts and delivered in digestible chunks for
board executives who think kay sahebe is a sushi role.

(03:31:14):
I do like spreadsheet wrestling. That actually, yes, that that's
that is tremendous. That's really clearly brilliant. I like I
like that they're booked by market analysts. Yes, I love that.
That's what it is. It's like you have stock stock
market analysts who are saying, well, you know, I think
this this one would really kind of boost the numbers.
Oh my god. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:31:35):
And they used to laugh people off the investors calls
that used to talk about the storylines, and now like
right right, those people, it is basically deciding what direction
it all takes.

Speaker 1 (03:31:45):
And yet, like a fool, I keep showing up. It's correcting, praying, needing,
but not wwe Oh no, I need the co chairman
in my ass like WW needs another grifter YouTuber overreacting
to another Paul Hayman promo. I need it the way
Triple H needs to treat every post pl E press
conference like a super Bowl winning coat. You are the

(03:32:08):
only ones reminding me that it used to mean something.
You're my tether to win. This business was still run
by sociopaths and not spreadsheets. And that's it. You know what,
do you prefer sociopaths or spreadsheets? That's a good t
shirt right there. Sociopaths over spreadsheets? Is that some That's
about the sum of it, you know. There it is

(03:32:29):
when a worked shoot meant something, when Danger and Carnie
Magic lived under every turnbuckle. Now Cody finishes the story
and it still feels like page one. Roman's off on
PTO La Knights catchphrases have been focus grouped into oblivion
and logan Paul Asmo become one of the most protected

(03:32:52):
workers on the roster, which tells me everything I need
to know about the target demographic. Right not me, It's
just it's not just creative. WWE n R TKO has
become a content farm, not a wrestling company. Everything is monetized,
clipped packaged and forgotten. Listen, you want moments, we get

(03:33:20):
metrics and the kicker. They've taken the fans completely out
of the question. WWE has become a product for partners,
shareholders and international media rights fans. We're the ones they
fleece with fanatics hoodies and CGI lighting lightning bolts. And
if you're not compliant with the narrative, you're not the
target demo anymore. Ingo, So I come to you, Jack

(03:33:44):
and JP. Keep me warm, keep me lapsed, keep me prolapsed,
keep me deep in that audio documentary goodness, because if
I have to watch WWE, pretend it's prestige television for
another quarter. Oh wait till the fucking unreal show comes out.
Oh man, wait for that. You know, they think they're
doing the they're basically think they're doing the f one

(03:34:04):
racing thing, right, like the behind the scenes, like listen,
nobody cares all right, like nobody think.

Speaker 2 (03:34:11):
There was a quote I read from a Netflix guy,
or I think the guy who directed it for Netflix,
because it is kind of an outside person that did
this project and he thinks like this is going to
hook new people into WW when they realize how it
all works.

Speaker 1 (03:34:22):
Behind the scenes. No, no, they're not. It's it's gonna
turn What it's gonna do is it's gonna turn people
who were on there on the last threads away. No,
one's gonna fucking wat Why why would I want to?
It's like, I mean, okay, because it's like having a

(03:34:45):
weekly television show of a movie being made and then
you go see the movie when it comes out, Like,
I don't care. Listen, I'm fascinated by that stuff, and
I would want to. I would want to, I would
want to experience it, but I'm not gonna watch it.

(03:35:06):
It's fucking stupid. Like, if anything, they should have made
this a fictional show. Well, you know that's that would
be funny. It will be I mean, right, that's the thing.
It will be, guys, like help it work if a
camera's on in the room. It's it's just you know.

Speaker 2 (03:35:20):
I know because I remember talking to Court Bauer about
this years ago, because I I did a hit on
Wrestling Observer Radio with Dave and Bryan one time because
we were talking. I was talking about how this idea
would I think be a way to drive subscriptions to
the network.

Speaker 1 (03:35:37):
By the way, just kind I asked them to think
about this. Did you ever think back in like two
thousand and two that you'd ever be like, you know,
doing shit with Dave? Well not, No. I corresponded with
him regularly, and I interviewed him a bunch of times.
But not when you were in college just reading me
the observer. No, like, did you ever think you would

(03:35:58):
like collaborate or whatever. No, no, no, no, no, not
the odd just calling into his radio show and like
emailing them and stuff. Yet right now, that's that's true. Yeah,
we can't lose sight of that ten years on. You
know how he came into the fold in those early
WrestleMania and Star Kate episodes, and that's pretty wild to
think about.

Speaker 2 (03:36:15):
Yeah, it's a good point. But we were just talking
about like in those earliest days in the network, when
it was just run by WW there was no peacock,
there was no guaranteed money. They were sweating every single
month the subscriber number and what they'd have to report
to Wall Street at the end of the quarter. They
were pulling all kinds of gammicks. Remember like if you
oh yeah, you get you lock in a cheaper price,
if you agree not to cancel for six months, and
it's like, you have no control of where whether someone

(03:36:38):
cancels or not. You can't do that to people, right,
You can't insist that they paid for something every month
that they unless you make them sign an anual contract.
But they never really wanted to do that because they
were so stuck on that nine to ninety nine numbers,
this like psychological thing, and they were just like constantly
touting how many total hours of footage they had on
there and playing all these games ye and I was like, well,

(03:37:01):
what if they just, you know, what if a way
to get all the people who watched Raw, which was
in the millions compared to the hundreds of thousands that
had the network, or at least the Nielsen ratings gave
us the sense that it was in the millions anyway,
if you gave them sort of like follow on shoulder
programming where they actually could see how the episode of
Raw that they just saw came together. Because there was

(03:37:24):
so much it was becoming so clear that the network
was hitting primarily people who you know, had enough of
a familiarity and affinity for WW It was their core
core base. It was people who might actually be interested
in kind of pulling back the curtain a little bit,
and I thought it would generate a lot of mainstream publicity.
WW pulls back the curtain. I thought the stories wrote themselves,

(03:37:45):
you know, the WWE's letting the audience into the room
and stuff. Yea, all these years later, they're actually doing it.
And one of the things I always wondered about as
far as how to get around it is kind of
like what you're saying, Like when you think about seeing
someone making a movie and then going to watch the movie,
that doesn't that doesn't really sound that intriguing. But if

(03:38:06):
you see it after the movie comes out, like you
would see a making a documentary.

Speaker 1 (03:38:11):
But that's that's one off thing. Yeah, one one off
thing for one movie. That's a one off thing. Like you, yes,
of course listen, I I I always love features and
and and what I've always loved that like and one
of my favorites of all time is the is in
the The Gladiator Extended edition that came out in like

(03:38:32):
two thousand and five or whatever. They had a three
hour documentary and listen, that's great. But also the difference
is too is that there were real stakes actually involved,
whereas like and I get that there are real stakes here.
But you know, there's a lot of drama that what
happened on in that particular movie, And I just I
just don't think a weekly television show is what the is?

(03:38:55):
What the answer is A one off thing is different.
If they did a two hour documentary, I think that
would be interesting, Yeah, but I think having a weekly
television program about how they create the fake wrestling is like,
I don't know, he listened.

Speaker 2 (03:39:11):
Maybe I'm wrong. I think there's a way to wrong
to do it, but I don't know. The reason to
the core Pauer about it was because he used to
be in the writing team. We've had him on the show.
He talked about Art of War Games. You used to
be MLW Bookern was there. He said they were working
on something like that. At one point they were kind
of messing around with the pilot, and he said one
of the things, if I'm remembering correctly, at hate to
be misquoting him, but it was sort of like what

(03:39:32):
happened was people on the writing team, especially once he
used to be you know, wrestlers or television personalities, they
just immediately just started trying to become the star of
the show. And you actually didn't end up all getting
a reflection of the organic creation process, because what's really
key about that whole thing is that the real decisions
are made after the meeting's over, the one to one

(03:39:52):
little conversations in the hallway, right, you know, where everyone's
k favoring each other in the room. So I do
look forward to them pretending that the big conference table
is where the real winners and losers get picked, when
in reality, it's just like that's the consensus and then
everyone goes in politics one to one afterwards to make
last minute changes not I don't know. I don't know
if Triple Ah is receptive to that or not. But

(03:40:14):
we're going to see. And the idea that they the
idea I think is going to drive new fans, is
pretty hilarious to me. I've seen stranger things I've seen.
I've seen Total Bella's drastically increase the amount of women
watching RAW.

Speaker 1 (03:40:26):
It's I mean, I mean yeah, I mean listen, I'm
not I'm not saying that it's not going to happen.
I just I just don't see how that would do
the trick to me. It just I just can't I
can't picture it. I don't see it, Yeah, and maybe
it will maybe maybe you will do everything you know
that they're that they're fucking talking about, But it just
I don't see it. Yeah, I don't see it at all.

Speaker 2 (03:40:49):
It's very I look forward to seeing how they present
it because it's something I've thought about what it would
look like for a long time. I thought it was
going to be a lot more interesting when Vince was around,
because everyone always so you really want to know what
I really thought the value would be, honestly, is to
be able to study the look on Vince's face and
the tone of his voice when he discussed his individual talent,
like that means yeah, because that to me get talent

(03:41:11):
over like if people suspected from watching a show like
this that Vince wasn't giving a guy affair shot, or
Vince had blinders on regarding a certain talents upside because
this was during the time you gotta remember, I'm talking
like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, pre aew pre evenknew Japan's resurgence.
This was the time when people were just like, why
are these great wrestlers getting absolutely no chance when there's

(03:41:32):
only one place to really go in the entire business
to make a real living, and everybody was there, you know,
and that.

Speaker 1 (03:41:37):
Was kind of what I thought.

Speaker 2 (03:41:38):
The upshot of it was was like it's almost like
a way to get to Vince in his mindset because
of how big a hit him being on the Stone
Cold podcast was, and what he said about John Moxley,
what he said about Czarro, what he said about a
handful of wrestlers. That really stuck with you because it
was that rare opportunity to really get a pulse check
from Vince on what he thought about the wrestlers right right.
And I don't know, I just thought that would be

(03:41:59):
fascinating now that it's now that it's like t KO
and stuff and all these guys, all these guys are
workers and shirts and they're not like they're not.

Speaker 1 (03:42:06):
The old cabal.

Speaker 2 (03:42:07):
I used to like that idea, you know, of like
the Jerry Briscoes and those kind of guys, the Patterson
sitting around tapping the desk.

Speaker 3 (03:42:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:42:16):
Oh, I think it would be I think it would
be drobendous if you go, you know, and making these
little political uh suggestions back and forth. But now they
they they do production meetings and they have these expensive
conference rooms and that's not really what I mean, you know,
but right, and yeah, maybe they can capture more than that.
Maybe maybe they can capture more because they're kind of

(03:42:38):
playing it up like we're gonna take you through how
Rock Cody all that went down, and there's like there
were cameras and these key moments where changes in direction
were being communicated to people backstage. There's like a lot
more film than we realize. Okay, I mean, whatever, Rock's
gonna have something to say. These are the kind of
Rock is such a documentary mark like, oh, of course

(03:42:59):
he's gonna like micromanage every frame that he's in on
a show like this. Gouda protoct the perception. You know,
it's gonna have a just the gaudiest Versaci shirt you've
ever seen in every.

Speaker 1 (03:43:11):
Oh God list. I wouldn't expect anything less. Okay, I
would not expect anything less.

Speaker 2 (03:43:18):
Zach Alson makes a good point. He says, you know,
when tapes were sixty dollars, You're right, no one questioned
that's what they were worth. But I also didn't know
of anyone who had very many tapes because it was
such a premium to actually buy one. If someone bought
all three tapes in eighty six from Coliseum Video would
have roughly been the same cost as buying a Nintendo
Entertainment says.

Speaker 1 (03:43:36):
It's true. It is very true. I don't know how that,
you know, I never I never bought, you know, I copied,
I rented and and I copied.

Speaker 2 (03:43:48):
And people still made bajillions of dollars off distributing vvhs
and no one complained about it.

Speaker 1 (03:43:56):
I was alive. No one complained about tapes being that much.
No one complained.

Speaker 2 (03:43:59):
But then course, like everything else, it becomes a race
to the bottom from a price perspective. What if we
made it twenty dollars, Oh yeah, well, we'll make it eighteen,
we'll make it fourteen, we'll make it twelve, and then
pretty soon it's just like, what are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (03:44:10):
We'll make it my mom.

Speaker 2 (03:44:11):
Right, making my mom exactly, and then we've know how
that goes. And now everything it's not even worth two
million movies on Netflix aren't even arguably worth fourteen ninety
nine a month. It seems, I know, how did we
get here? How did we so thoroughly devalue an individual
unit of entertainment? How did we do this to ourselves? Well,

(03:44:32):
were we chasing how stupid.

Speaker 1 (03:44:35):
Because it became about it became because you know, just
kind of like what they're talking about. It changed. It
became more about instead of about creating entertainment or art
or whatever, it became about you know, when Netflix streaming okay,

(03:45:02):
and it became about, well, how can we maximize membership? Yep,
And that's just like what we're talking about with w
how can we get more people to sign up? And
then it and it became about more and more and
more and more and more and more and more, and
now we're overloaded with stuff. I mean, you know, there's

(03:45:24):
it's funny, you know. You know, my my parents always
just my mom and my grandma would always say you
you don't have time to watch all the videos that
you own. It's like, well I did, actually now I don't.
Now there's no time, right because like there's so much
shit out there. Because there's sixty prestige shows at a
time that everyone tells you that you have to watch, right,

(03:45:46):
I'm not watching any of them, guys, when I say
I am not going to watch a single one of them,
not one, because they're sixty. If there were two, like
Sopranos Game of Thrones days even yep, yep lost. Yeah,
I was there. I was fine participating in the office
on NBC. Yeah, I was watching every week and I

(03:46:07):
was fine with it because there.

Speaker 2 (03:46:08):
Weren't eighty shows that I had to watch and had
to you know what I mean, But I had to. Yes,
it's just not working. It's not working for anybody.

Speaker 1 (03:46:19):
It's harder. I mean, this is and and I mean
it's the market's oversaturated. It's have you seen the Happy
Almore sequel? No, I'm a little bitter about it. Okay,
well I think that that was why I asked you.
But well, I know, I know, I know, well I know,
but I don't even if I told you, you know,

(03:46:39):
I was. I was. I was on hold for like
two or three parts. I'm not sure you told me
that before. Yeah, they were gonna exa. I don't usually
talk about it until well after things are done. Yes,
but uh, breaking news here, folks. Yes, this is what
you get by listening deep into the mailbag. Right. So,
I I auditioned for a role and they put me,

(03:47:03):
put me on hold. They were going to use me,
and they then let me go from that role, but
then put me on hold for another role, and they
were like, we're gonna use like we want to use him,
you know, And so I was on hold. And then
I found out that MJF was in the movie and
I was like, oh my god, two movies jflets because

(03:47:24):
fucking cool. But then they never called me back. I
never I never worked. I think I think he might have.

Speaker 2 (03:47:32):
You know, he might have said no, no, no, no,
fucking hire that that's the guy he used to know
about wrestling on the last movie. I did, No, he's
not anywhere, get stop it, stop it. He he doesn't listen.
I asked him if he watched my TV show. He
said he he said to me that that he that
I that I was the guy who he would watch wrestling.
You know, I could make him watch wrestling again. And
then he say doesn't watch, So fuck him. He knows

(03:47:55):
too much. I don't doubt. I don't doubt that happened.
I don't doubt that happened for a second. And Becky
was on the movie.

Speaker 1 (03:48:02):
You know, I saw that. You think I'm gonna work
with the lapsed fat guy on the set. But okay,
so now I can go in.

Speaker 2 (03:48:15):
Yeahs an explosion of boardroom strategy in the form of
a two hour movie, just trying to shoehorn every fucking
person who does over a million views on reels into
a movie. I've never seen anything like it. These, you know,
they set up this whole conceit where like everyone's watching

(03:48:36):
this big final showdown golf show, so they have all
these podcasters watching like they're watching it live so they
can fit them into the movie.

Speaker 1 (03:48:44):
Am I scrolling Instagram here? Or is this supposed to
be a feature phone one?

Speaker 3 (03:48:47):
Am I? You know.

Speaker 2 (03:48:50):
My phone is my phone and I accept certain formats
of entertainment on my phone. Why is why is the
television obsessed with coming off.

Speaker 1 (03:48:58):
Like my phone? Why is every commercial vertical video? Why?

Speaker 2 (03:49:01):
Why is every cosmetics ad trying to convince me it's
actually a snapchat?

Speaker 1 (03:49:05):
I'm I'm, I'm, I'm infuriated. Hor about the thought, the
the people, the people who liked introduced vertical video. You know,
that's when it started. That's when that's when we started
losing the battle. I swear to God.

Speaker 2 (03:49:23):
Remember people used to get made fun of a vertical video?
Remember that, Yes, because we still had an idea of
like what you appropriate You.

Speaker 1 (03:49:31):
Know that in in when I When I get an audition,
it has to be specified, like casting directors specified, do
a fucking horizonal video. Do not do a vertical video
for your audition.

Speaker 2 (03:49:42):
Because they're just going to look at it. They're just
going to look at it on their phone while they're
having a thirty dollars cappuccino.

Speaker 1 (03:49:48):
Because the fucking like you got to do a fucking
you have to do a horizonal video, you cannot do vertical.
They get fucking pissed. And and I just like it
was lazy people who were just filming shit, you know.
And it's like I've never I have never voluntarily like
when I before, you kind of you know, had to

(03:50:10):
now because if you if you, if you shoot horizontal
for social media, they don't allow it. Basically you have
to have these giant you know, the giant black bars
has a fit basically a yes, you have to. It's
so annoying. But I used to like say, what are
you doing, Like why are you filming you know, oh,

(03:50:32):
someone's getting beaten over there? Why are you filming it
that way? Film it's you know, horizontal, like a fucking movie.

Speaker 2 (03:50:38):
That's that gets to the idea. And I was about
to say this None of these choices that we've made
in terms of how we shoot entertainment has been done
with artistic goals in mind. It's all been dictated by
the technology. The technology should figure out.

Speaker 1 (03:50:56):
But it's but it's also lazy. It's also laziness. It's
the fact that people didn't want to you know, people
were scrolling in their phones and something happens, They're just like, oh,
let me get this, and they just fucking put their
put their their phone up there instead of you know,
doing what I would have done, which is like, oh,
I got to do it for the.

Speaker 2 (03:51:11):
Reason you just said, if they don't shoot it in
in vertical, then they cannot do it to social But.

Speaker 1 (03:51:16):
But but before that was a thing. Yeah, before before
social made it made it the requirement, that's what people
were doing. Like, people were always sending me videos vertical.
I'm like, what are you doing? Like, do you do you?
Have you ever watched TV like this? Exactly? Well, that's
the thing. They don't care about the TV screen anymore.
They Well, I know, but but I'm talking about before that,

(03:51:38):
before this, Why did you do this? Why did people
before it became the fad, before it became the thing
you had to do. Why did you do this to
begin with? Why aren't you filming like a fucking adult?
Why are you filming like an ignorant, fucking piece of shit?

Speaker 2 (03:51:58):
And that's the thing that wins out right, It wents
out because all people care about is that we're evolving.

Speaker 1 (03:52:05):
We're devolving, Okay, that we are. Listen, when you start
filming shit vertical, you're losing the battle and you're just you're, you're, you're, you're,
you're dumbing everybody down, oh very much. So you're dumbing
everybody down. You're doing it, and you're also making them
lazy because then they don't have to work to fucking

(03:52:27):
get it to be a fucking horizontal thing. And it
gets back to they're not making a movie to create art.

Speaker 2 (03:52:34):
They're making a movie to create a social sensation that
they're metrics. They're trying to click back, they're trying to
click their own video into the hopeless addiction that they
have to vertical video scrolling. That's that's when we lost
the battle, folks. You can point to a million societal things,
you can point to a million political things, you can point.

Speaker 1 (03:52:53):
To whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (03:52:54):
We lost the battle when life became about flicking upwards
on your phone, and it just doesn't ever fucking end.
It doesn't TikTok never ever ends. And if it has
the slightest hint, the slightest hint that you may be
even somewhat interested in content that will drive you to

(03:53:16):
an early grave, it will not stop showing it to you. Yeah,
I don't understand. You know, we did it to ourselves,
and we shoot our entertainment, working ourselves backwards from these
arbitrary technology decisions that have nothing to do with faithfully
and interestingly representing the subject of the video or the picture,
or whatever the case may be. We literally just do

(03:53:38):
things because that's the way Samsung and Apple decided everything's
going to be displayed, two companies full of people that
would wouldn't know art. If they were trapped in an
art gallery for thirty years, they wouldn't be able.

Speaker 1 (03:53:50):
To find it.

Speaker 2 (03:53:51):
And I'm not saying everything has to be art, but
fucking movies, no TV shows, I mean, come on, folks, photographs.

Speaker 1 (03:53:58):
Right, there's just there's just I mean, I remember I
read I read something there was somebody who said, you know,
I think it's time we have movies. You know why
don't we have a movie films vertically? Exactly what are
we doing? We can just sell out inventory. We got
it because it would look because it would look stupid.

(03:54:19):
How about that. That's why, because it would look fucking
stupid and you would be labeled a moron. That's why
you don't fucking film a movie vertical. We're just old
fuddy duddies, I know exactly.

Speaker 3 (03:54:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:54:35):
Meanwhile, people can't watch a video for more than two
and a half minutes without having a panic attack as
they're bored.

Speaker 1 (03:54:41):
Right, and yet there's a fucking pro wrestler in the
goddamn White House.

Speaker 2 (03:54:45):
Paul says, Yeah, our local store treated the tapes like
the gold they were.

Speaker 1 (03:54:50):
That's right. You take care of those tapes or you
pay a stiff penalty. Physical media hard stop. Physical media
things are better. Ephemeral digital media things are worse. I
I well, yes, i'll tell you what. I'll tell you what.
I liked both. Yes, I liked. I liked the days

(03:55:15):
when you could buy I'd go buy a Blu Ray.
I liked the idea that I was forced to go
buy a blue ray. Ask me too, and I would
get the digital copy with it. Sure, see that that
was something that I liked doing. Now I don't buy
any anything, any Blu rays because I'm not going to
watch a Blue ray. And this is another I'm going

(03:55:37):
to watch a digital thing, you know, like yes, they're
they're you know, because everything you know, I watching it
on you know, Apple TV. And once I got an
Apple TV, it was game over, you know, goodbye, good
bye discs. I'm sorry, I loved you. I still have
some forgot to have my office. I still keep a collection,
you know, like their fucking antiques.

Speaker 2 (03:55:57):
And the amount of people who stopped getting paid when
you stop buy those DVDs is infinite.

Speaker 1 (03:56:03):
It's it's listen, it's it's way. It's it's true. It's true.
And the only reason the only reason why I allowed
myself to kind of shift completely over into buying is
because I was able to yes, correct, It wasn't necessarily

(03:56:23):
a choice, it was a well shit, I don't need
to do that anymore. Yeah, yeah you do.

Speaker 2 (03:56:28):
You definitely don't make that shift with any evil intentions.
And look, the things people always get twisted about these
kind of commentaries is that we somehow are suggesting that
somebody is at fault for making a poor choice along
the way. No, what we decry is that we had
no choice.