Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So he's asked the question we heard from the daughter.
How did Hero feel after this? Do you think he
was unbothered about breaking his leg?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah? I don't think he gave.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
A shit, that's correct, according to Jerry Briscoe told Brad Balucci.
And how did Hero feel after that?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
He didn't. He was indifferent about it. How did he
feel about it? He didn't feel about it. How about that?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
He didn't feel around for it either. He just went
for it. It was just a job, Jerry said. You know,
when another guy coming through and he's done a lot
worse to guys, Terry actually got off lucky. It was
just his ankle instead of breaking his face up and
all that stuff and going to the band the next
night with two big balloons for eyes. Is it fair
to say he was asked that when guys who blue knots,
(00:44):
you know, but it's uh, you know, he's a guy
that you know. Matt Sudo was very secure in his position.
He was not just some wrestler on the card. He
at part of the office. He had business interests all
over the place. He wasn't going anywhere, and it's important
to remember that. One of the things we want to
take a look at boss, you got that folder open.
(01:05):
The aforementioned I do with a lot of the materials
courtesy of the big homie Matt, who's been an indispensable
resource as we really ramp up on the earliest years
of Terry Bulea. You'll see a couple of clips in
there that I'd love for you to convey to the
Solar System because as we try to paint this picture
of here in Matsuda, kind of important to go to
the Tampa area newspaper clippings and how they wrote about
(01:26):
his business ventures and him as more than just a
professional wrestler in the community. So when I find those
here in a moment and convey them to the folks,
he as mentioned he had something of a I don't
know what you'd call it, like an apparel store. I
guess like a sporting goods store.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
But what had it like a hero's beach shop? You know?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's it is kind of funny that the one thing
he didn't sell was sandwiches. Considering so there there are
a couple. You'll see one there nineteen seventy four from
the May tenth Tampa Times, Matt Suita's Busy Matt and
that's a feature on Matt Suita's wrestling school, and we'll
(02:15):
get another there as well. So he had a gym
that was public facing. It wasn't like this guy was
you know, behind some dungeon wall and was this like
mystical guy in the community, like you could go and
train with Hiro Matsuda just to stay in shave. So
it doesn't get more pro wrestling than that. You build
up all this mystique and then you go back in
(02:36):
the actual date and time, and he had his hand
out for a payoff, just like anybody else, you know,
and he mark off the street could get access to
this seemingly you know, impenetrable mystical force behind the walls
of the sportatorium.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
There's no mystical force ever. It's it's all you know,
it is. It's always you know, there is. There is
no dollar amount too little that can break down the walls. Okay,
we're about to fall down a little bit. Let's get
on the mat with Matt Suita. Do you have Matt
suits busy, Matt, I'm looking here, so roller roller, which
(03:13):
which the fold? It's the Yeah, we'll get it here.
Just stay right, I've got I've got it. I've got
a bunch, but I don't know. Is the seventy five
seventy eight one? Yeah, okay, you'll have the mat.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Matt suit is Busy Matt. It starts with nineteen seventy
four there in terms of the final name. And we'll
get you over to the Tampa Times, ladies and gentlemen,
the Tampa Time.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Oh yeah, the Tampa Times. Okay, you got it. This
is the one. Okay, I see, Oh, I see that's
the name of the thing.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Look at all the guys on the mat. There's a
big ass that much wrestling. Matt's all over the place.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yep, yes, of course. Listen, it's a it's to learn
to learn how to work, you have to learn how
to shoot.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Only Terry would have stopped in here first, you would
have been able to counter.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
That's right, actually, because he just used to sitting at
the dining counter, right, and the diner and you know,
getting some getting some hash, and it's this is waffle house,
all right, I'm reading this one. Yeah, let's do it,
(04:17):
all right, all right. Matt Suita is Busy Matt. By
Richard White, Times staff writer. The only decoration on the
Gymnasium wall is a hanging banner fighting spirit, it proclaims
in Japanese characters. Underneath the banner, athletes tumble across the
wall to wall wrestling matt embracing in the holds wrestlers
(04:38):
use for handshakes, chatting between body slams. It is not
a fighting spirit that fills Metsuita's Judo and wrestling school
early on a hot spring evening, two months after the
scholastic wrestling season has ended. It is a friendly spirit,
like the relaxed dugout of a spring training baseball camp.
In the center of the mat. Hakiro Oishi, a twenty
(05:00):
four year old wrestling disciple from Japan, swepts through drills
with with a group of high school age lightweights King
Hi Wrestling coach King Hi Wrestling coach King Hi. That's
where Anthony Barcello went, well, King Hi, I was gonna say,
isn't that the nickname for David Boy Smith. I honestly
thought that's good too.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I honestly thought when you said King Hi that it
was a Japanese name, not King High School, but King
h Ai or something.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I know, yeah, right right, you know, and it's like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
We're in, We're in Tampa, and there's a wrestling disciple
in there. I gotta think it's d Leslie.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Going by the name Hakiroishi. A king Hi wrestling coach.
Dan Kraft Macaroni and Cheese gives takedown pointers to Larry Bergman.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Leave it to hear him at Suda to open this
gym with like Japanese characters, fighting spirit, all these Japanese
students and everything, and he hires the fucking coach named Dan.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Kraft's seriously, Dan Kraft gives takedown pointers to Larry Bergman.
An assistant State's attorney in as A Peneus County Panela's
Panelos Yeah, Penellas County. Ross Wilson, a Brandon High sophomore,
scorries around the matt offering friendly advice to wrestlers he
(06:24):
will face in fighting competition next winter. Wrestling is becoming
a year round sport in Tampa. Man and boys are
paying twelve dollars a month to step inside met Sudah's
Cheese Box Gym on North Lowes Street three nights a
week and polish their wrestling styles that suit. A veteran
professional wrestler in this area opened the tiny gym on
(06:46):
January first nineteen seventy three. To give wrestlers a year
round training ground to teach his judo and wrestling classes.
He hired Masau Hatori, a former Japanese national wrestling champion.
Oh yeah, well known in the wrestling here. Yeah, say
I know him. I know that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That's Tiger Hattori, the future you know, new japan referee
and uh liaison okay to the English speaking offices because
he had very good English.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Hmm. Between them, Matsuda and Hattori laid their philosophy on
the mat. Combined Japanese wrestling discipline and speed with American
strength and new found enthusiasm for the sport. Combine fighting
spirit with the intimate wrestling brotherhood to produce champions. Quote.
Americans have long legs that are good for wrestling, explains Hatori.
(07:35):
Japanese style is more speed, but little things from Japanese
style and American together long legs good for breaking. Wrestling
is a lot of experience, good point, Wrestling is a
lot of experience. I don't know that what's wrong with
(07:57):
translation there? Something is lost there. I'm trying to figure
out what are you trying to say? Wrestling takes a
lot of experience. I don't know. I'm very I don't
know what that one means in high school sometimes only
making muscle good wrestler need up here to.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Head.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
They're really quoting him, like in the exact like that's
what they're saying. I'm sure. I'm sure not I'm sure. Hey,
you know what, you just got to have this fuck,
you know, just just break it up a little bit.
You know, he speaks, he speaks too well. You know,
we can't have, we can't represent.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I forgot what I forgot? Who has the last
pass on this piece before it hits the press.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'm not going to sit here, all right, I'm not
going to sit here and act like a an intelligent
Japanese American is fucking coaching these people, right, that's bullshit.
Bus This is the actual reel. Like no, no, no, no, no,
no no no no no no no, no, no no no,
it's not what do you mean? Look at you see
the same let these guys? Are you so this this
(08:57):
is your fucking problem? You're so fucking blind? What am
I line? You? Shit? You're so do you know who
the fucking guy who owns this gym is? You know
when you're a hero. Matsuda. He yeah, he's actual rest phone.
I understand the fucking phony. He's a fucking phony. I
don't care why he started. I don't care where he went.
You know, it doesn't fucking matter. The bottom line is
(09:18):
right now, he's a fucking phony, and that's all he is.
Bottom line is right now, he gets paid to pull
the wool over the public's eyes. He gets paid to
light a You's right to me and everybody else in
this fucking state, all right. I don't fucking care. He
could have been fucking vautic toorn of his goddamn high
school class. I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I drive by that Hestely Armor on Tuesday nights and
I see that pocking lot full, And do you know
what goes through my fucking mind when I see mister
Bonanza at that place every single week in my city.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I'm looking at people. I'm looking at these fucking people,
all right, who who are being made to just give
their fucking hard warning money to He's fucking idiots. A crime.
It's a crime.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Can I just ask you why why is it a crime?
They go there, they have a good time.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
No they don't, No, they don't They make you think
you're having a good time, but they're not. All they
want is your fucking money. They don't give a shit.
They card they want to get. No, no, no, they
go out there. You know what they could do. This
is the thing. You know, you have a you have
a boxing match, right, you see, you have a big
boxing such now you know, you know for a fact,
(10:29):
you know they get a number of rounds. Obviously, anything
can happen in boxing, but you know what, You hype
up a match, but you don't know what's gonna happen.
You don't know what's gonna happen. Nobody knows what's gonna happen.
These fucking clowns know every fucking move going on in there,
and they're fucking with you. They're fucking with everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I heard this guy actually breaks people's bones at the
sportatorium to get them initiated and arrest.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I'm sorry, Oh oh he does. Oh well, let me
just back off. Let me, let me let me just
one question before I completely back off, and I'll fucking
resign my uh my fucking position here. Have you seen
it happen? No, have you been there in person? Break
a leg?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I've heard a lot about it though from people in wrestling.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Oh oh, oh, oh oh. I see so the liars
are telling this shit.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
You.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
The liars are coming to you and saying, Hey, this
fucking clown over here who doesn't know his fucking ass
from a hole in the ground is breaking people's legs. Then, no,
fuck you, all right, they nobody's been there. Nobody he's
in the fucking room when this ship goes down. Correction.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I'll tell you what show of the sportatorium a picture
and above it just it's a quote.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Nobody's been there. I'm gonna tell you something, all right.
You get them to let me in there every fucking
time they're working with one of these ass clowns who
think they're gonna fucking get a job as a fake athlete,
all right, And I want to see them break a
fucking leg. I want to see him break a fucking leg.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, Charlie lay yeah? Can I get in here? What's
I want to I want to observe proceedings? Who the
fuck are you? I want to know who the fucking
guy's breaking legs is?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Excuse me? I want to him do it? Are you
gonna buy a ticket? Are you here buy a ticket
to the armory. No no, no, no, no, no no, I'm gonna
see fucking legs. Get call the cops. What do you mean, hey,
I listen to please please? All right. I've got more soces,
more sources than the fucking PD over here than you,
fucking he could even imagine. Who are you? I want
to see a fucking leg broken. Prove it to me,
(12:39):
Prove it to you. Prove to me that this ship's real.
You know everyone, you know, people in my office are
telling me that there's a fucking clown in here who
goes around breaking people's legs when they're training to do
this fucking fake ship. Fake. You're gonna come in here
and say fake on my territory. Man, you gotta be
out of your mind. I'm not gonna say it. I'm
gonna bot about it. I'm gonna put in every goddamn
(13:02):
newspaper in the fucking country your little pieces.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I don't know what kind of I don't know what
kind of fake news media you're from, but I hope
you know that this this is Florida.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh, I see, So you're fucking you're gonna put it
back on me now, I'm fucking fake right, I'm fucking
fink as I'm reporting about the murders on these fucking streets.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Out here, Florida, Florida, my friend, as you well know,
is a Staniel ground state, and this is my ground.
And I encourage you to take another step forward, you
to leave North.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Invite you to suck my dick, you piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Charlie Lay versus the LAPS editor. You already know what
it is, So let me ask you a question. You're
here to doubt that behind those doors right there ain't
a Japanese gentleman who will post his l low in
your shin and pull up on your toe till it's
snaps in half.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Basically, all I want to know is what's real in
this fucking building. What's reel in here? I'll tell you
what you want to know. What's real? This is real
that that's created quickly, This is fucking real. You want
to see how fast a book goes through your fucking brain.
That's fucking real. And I'll fucking write about that shit.
(14:10):
This is the realist thing that a the editor of
the paper in Tampa. This is gonna be meet killing
you will be the realist thing that ever fucking happened
in here.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Man.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
You know, we really lost the plot in Tampa and
all these New Yorkers started moving down here. You definitely
can be in Miami. Man, what are you doing a.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Plot of all your fucking stories that go on in
here as you fucking try to make these people, these good, honest,
hardworking people, believe that what you do is legitimate.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Can't you come down here like every other New Yorker
to get divorced at fifty five and go to a
tiki bar with a sleeveless shirt on.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Dude, I'm gonna tell you something. I've been divorced since
I was thirty three, So go fuck yourself. Wow.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, listen, there's a gentleman. He's out here right now.
His name is Matt Suda. I'm sure he'd be glad.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I want to know this fucking I want to know
about this fucking clown who breaks who quote unquote breaks
people's legs? Do you show it to me?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Fast forward to out here, fast forward to my leg. Well,
you said you wanted it, you came back. I'll give
you credit for it. I want to introduce you to
mister Mattsuda. All right, bitch, I'm not gonna do a
mat Suda. I don't want to get veer into dangerous territory,
but suffice to say, he shakes the lapse Editor's hand and.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Break my fucking leg. Come on, how do you want
him to do that?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Sir?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Uh, prove to me that you're not a fucking figment
of my imagination. Huh. Prove to me right now that
you have what it takes to break a fucking man's leg,
because I don't think you fucking can do it. I
think you're a bitch. I think you're a loser. There's
nothing real about you. I'm the realist fucking thing you're
(15:57):
ever gonna meet, and I'm gonna fucking wipe the floor
with you. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
He steps up to Matt suit. All right, let's continue here.
How that that little piece of history has been illuminated,
because I really don't know where to.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Go from there. All from the fucking broken English that reported.
When Tory first began teaching wrestling classes at the University
of South Florida in nineteen seventy two, one of the
first pupils was a scrawny horace Man junior horace Man
(16:37):
junior high student named Ross Wilson. Later, when the wrestling
school opened on Lois, Wilson began driving forty miles round
trip from his Brandon home to attend it three nights
per week. In the past year, the Brandon High, the
Brandon High sophomore has placed second in the World Schoolboy Brother,
What this is really questionable, horace man? Dude, I mean, hello, brother,
(17:00):
You're talking about a guy named Horse who's doing world
schoolboy tournaments. Brother, what's up with that? Dude? People so base?
What you tell me, brother, is that there are people
competing to do the best school boy roll ups? Are
you telling me, brother, what's going on will be a
reason for that? What's the diz? Man? Just on. I'm
just you know, I'm.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Really trying to keep my my perspective wide open on
this thing and really not jump to conclusions. But it's
kind of tough when you look around and everyone's coming
at you wide open.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Brother. I'm looking around you, and I'm understanding that there
are now hundreds of people working that school school biz gimmick. Brother,
I'm looking.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Around and I'm understanding. I mean, look, it's it's in there.
We didn't we didn't put it in there at all.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
It's in there, second in the World's School World school
Boy Tournament, and third in the Florida Stit State High
School Tournament as a one hundred and one pounder. The
Japanese use a lot quote Rather, the Japanese, you use
a lot of judo flips for takedowns, but nobody else
seems to use them. Nobody knows flips like the Japanese do,
as Wilson. But I come here for more than learning
(18:02):
new moves. By next year, I'll have twice the experience
I have now, Like most people, when you do something
for twice as long. Yeah, if you do something for
a year and then you do it for another year, yes,
you have twice the experience. It's amazing how that happens.
Other guys will be starting the season all over and
I'll be in top shape. Not all visitors to Matt
Suit his gym are competition hungry school boys. Brother, there
(18:24):
it is again, dude, I mean, what the fuck it's
Matt Suita. Dude, you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Brother, That Suit is training people in that building right there,
and Drew Park.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
He's training schoolboy style. Brother, First he breaks my fucking leg,
then he fucking has goddamn fucking Mike Graham fucking attacked
me out of nowhere for fucking years. Dude, I know
we put him in. I know for a fact, brother,
that Matt Suita put him in that fucking high school. Brother,
do you have heat with Mike Graham, Terry, with anybody? Dude,
He's got heat with me. Brother. He's always fucking talking
(18:56):
down to me. Man. He was always like, oh, you know, brother,
you know Terry, you know, I'm you know, these guys
are the jocks, you know, because I wasn't a jock, brother,
because I kind of I want to focus on music,
and they fucking come at me every fucking day.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Brother, was I daydreaming about Mike Graham arms folded as
a hardware store of sales net? Was I picturing various
scenarios in which he casts a judgmental gaze.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
From standing just standing outside of Pete and Ruth's house,
fucking arms folder, just looking at the doorway.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I think you're gonna be a star hun Terry in
my city, after all I've put in.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
My dad's done. I'm sorry, you're gonna play fucking music
when you look like that? Fuck you, don't you fucking
do that? Don't you do that to yourself. Don't you
do that to me? All right? You can't play music
when you look like that, It's not allowed. You fucking
(20:05):
chuck it up.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Terry, do you even have do you even have sauce
that go up to the knee?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I'm sorry, I don't know who you are, but Terry's
not here right now. He lives in a hotel. Sorry, man,
what is going on with this guy? What? What are
(20:33):
the odds that when we actually dig in, Hulk was
weirder before he was a wrestler. Seriously, was the cowardly
giant Jesus Christ? Oh God, he's weirder.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Than he's weird, Sticking rocks up his nose, living in
a hotel, like, why are you living in a hotel?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Buying fifteen cars his sophomore year in high school or whatever?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Looking up other people's salaries at the bank.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Throw it like wearing fucking platform shoes, Jesus Christ, his
mother's jewelry.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Eating a whopper coke and diet diet coke and fries
every day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Then that's a healthy diet. God, I wonder what it
was like unhealthy Jesus school boy school boys again, fucking
hungry school boys, No Wonder, No Wonder Patterson came to
the territory. Frank Fusik is a twenty nine year old
(21:48):
engineer at Florida Power Company. Sounds like a fucking tag tap,
sounds like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
It sounds like like a team with guys who were
in WCW but you didn't know they worked Japan too.
It's like Dan Spivey and like, uh, who else?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, definitely gotta have fucking Fred Otman.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, Fred Oman and Dan Spivey were called Florida Power
Company in all Japan. So many backdrop drivers, guys taking
high angle Sayido suplexus for Florida Power Company.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Fucking fucking Optman going for the ride with a half Nelson.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Because Japanese crowds expected to land on your head. It's
not more complicated than that. It doesn't matter where you're from.
You land on your head if you want to get
a reaction. Oh my god, Hey, it's better Florida Power Company.
It's better than the working title, which was a Florida
Public Utility of Light.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Florida Public Works aka Championships from Florida. Okay, every Tuesday
with the Hesserly Public Works Florida Public Works at this
(23:24):
point in this quarter had a combined way. It's a
Japanese announcer flight up Public Works time, and they have like,
you know, vests on Oh my god, and and and
(23:47):
the Japanese crowd takes them so fucking seriously, just like streamers.
Oh god, well that would be later on, it would
be more like today. That's more like. That's more like
every Royal rumble the past three years loaded with.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
The only streamers in wrestling used to be in work
rate promotions. Now every big p l A there's one somewhere.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
No, no, no, you know what they're gonna have. They're
gonna have like this, a streamers Battle Royal. At some
point the streamers ball a Streamer's Battle Royal. Oh good,
you know they're gonna do it someday. Oh shit, Florida
Cock versus Netflix versus ESPN, Florida Public Works brands, it's
(24:39):
just brands having a battle roy Streamers Paramount plus Apple
TV plus.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, like Vince like makes like masks that have the
loco of the streaming service, like the app logo.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And it's like, but then the best thing is like
they don't even hide who the wrestlers are like, they
just put the mask on, like Randy Orton, right with
a fucking Apple.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Amazon Primes, the Prime check across the with a Prime
mask on, It'll be even funnier as if they did
this and they didn't wear masks at all. They dressed
like they always did. Randy Orton is dressed like Randy Orton,
but they keep calling him Amazon Prime. What episode was
it where they pretended wrestlers were streaming services? Is that
(25:22):
the complete hul Cogan The Birth of hul Cogan Episode two?
Matsuda because streamers Because I said they threw streamers at
Florida Power Light whatever their name.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Is, and they're obviously throwing people a.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Florida Nuclear Regulatory Commission, whatever their name is.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
That's the overall faction, right That's like the Legion of
Doom in the NWA. Florida Power Company is the Road
Warriors version of it. Ah Jesus Christ explains why he
drives one hundred miles each week from Saint Petersburg to
participate in the Monday through when Monday Wednesday Friday workouts.
(26:03):
I was athletics ten years ago. I kind of missed it,
but I was resigned to not do anything. They're not
doing anything. Hey, sounds like me, right, I got so
bad off physically. I got disgusted in joying a health club,
but that didn't do it. I like the competition, something
to keep working for, using the evening workouts as a
(26:25):
launching pad. Several wrestling wrestler, several wrestling enthusiasts have begun
the Tampa Wrestling Club coach by Hattori King King Coach.
Oh my god, coach by Hattori King coach Craft. We
call him King coach Craft. Okay, all right, I mean
(26:48):
it sounds like I mean, it sounds like an instructional video.
It really does. And Horace Mann coach okay. The fact
that all these high schools are like, you know, names
of people, it's just it's so fucking confusing, all right,
it makes it so much harder. Horace Man coach.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Coach Craft's brother Robert fabs off the Winkland. You are
the greatest fads at all of New England.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I want you to welcome my brother King coach Craft. Hey,
I got this great massage parlor. I can show you
around here. This is great. And Horaceman coach Phil Chase.
The club already has made a name for itself in
statewide amateur tournaments. It is still looking for new members. Quote,
(27:44):
it's not hard to keep boys.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Interested, said said Terry. Garvin says craft.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Resting as a real close brotherhood, probably the closest of
any sport. Matsuda has even more plans. You're bringing another
coach named Velvida and in Lando Lakes. That is in Florida.
(28:19):
He would like to sponsor some of his more promising students,
like Wilson and Brandon High teammate Mark McNitt on a
wrestling expedition through Japan. The one thing Masuda says he
cannot afford to do is profiteer from the surge of
wrestling interests in Tampa. Quote, I'm not making any money.
I'm in the hole. He said that to the newspaper.
(28:43):
What the fuck, what's going on here? Fucking? The dues
will remain twelve dollars a month. The room will remain
small enough for wrestling brotherhood to fill it. Okay, good stuff.
The matt will be the only furnishing, and the decoration
will be fighting spirit. Well.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
If he was in the hole in seventy four, it
certainly didn't stop him from continuing in seventy five.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Jesus, there's another piece.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
From the Tampa Times, Matsuda beginning another TBWC year with
lofty goals. Tampa is a home of many champions, and
it's hardly more evident than at four six on one
North Lewis Avenue. That's the home of Hiro matsuit Is,
Judo and wrestling School. Hero would say thanks for the plug,
but right now he's more interested in reminding area of
people that is Tampa Bay Wrestling Club, where the champs
or near champs are is cranking up for a new
(29:30):
fall winter season. Hero, the world Junior Heavyweight wrestling champion
among the pros, has initiated a special program to focus
on beginning wrestlers in the Tampa Bay area. So this
is not a guy who who was this guy who's
inviting the public to wrestle with him. You know, this
is not some guy that they kept locked in the
in the corner for when someone needed to be toit
a lesson. Okay, this is a businessman, all right.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So there is this a guy who's like, like, who's right,
He's a public figure totally totally, you know, there's no
nothing like in the closet about this guy at all.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It's a program to emphasized basic wrestling fundamentals to develop
strong foundations on which the young wrestlers can build, says Hero,
a Tampa resident since nineteen sixty three. The club meets
each Monday from seven day thirty pm at Metsuita school
and membership is open to anyone from five years of
age and not. Membership fees are negligible. Negligible, okay, that
is a negotiable. For tenth to twelfth grade schoolers, it's
(30:26):
two dollars and one dollar for ninth graders and below.
There's a four dollar charge for a US Wrestling Federation
membership for those fifteen and older and two dollars for
those fourteen and under. It's necessary for insurance coverage. More
and more boys are having a fling at wrestling and
finding they like.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Says Hero.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Oh, he really needs to be coached on how this sounds.
Besides just getting an introduction.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I mean, why do they have to like, I mean,
I understand that that you know, if you're quoting somebody,
you kind of have to be exactly what.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
You don't have to do that to the guy like
they're you're making fun of him, and you know it.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Right, It's just it's bad. It's very It's like it's
very man.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
That's just awful, besides just getting an introduction to the
fundamentals as good body building. But though the roster of
Tampa Bay Wrestling Clubbers holding state or national championships is long,
not ites not there's room for more, TBWC doesn't hold
hold them all. Even if the following list of current
champions gives that impression. How about Hachiro Oishi, a club instructor,
(31:25):
first place, National Federation Open Tournament, one hundred and thirty
six pounds. Howbout Dan Kraft second place National Federation Open
Tournament Heavyweight, Larry Bergman, Florida State Heavyweight AAU Heavyweight Champion,
Carl Hillman second place Florida AAU Championships at heavyweight, Glenn
Goodman first place, Easter Junior National Championships at ninety nine pounds,
(31:47):
Jimmy Clair second place, Florida AAU one hundred and forty
nine pounds, Phil Chase third place one hundred and sixty
nine pounds, Florida AAU, Dan Kraft first Charlotte Open, Glenn
good We're repeating people, here. Wow, so we're already out
of uh, out of people who see Terry Boley in here.
We have members who are attorneys, teachers, engineers, and kids
(32:08):
of all ages as hero yes, the fear hero Matsuda
training fucking engineers and attorneys out of wrestle and not
breaking their legs. If some I I don't even know
how to fucking process this whole thing. It just it
just it makes it. It brings him so much down to earth,
doesn't it. This idea that you know, oh my god,
the head did lock this shooter away in the corner.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Right, I mean that's the thing. Like it this destroys
that that mystique that they kind of have created over
the last fifty years. It's a businessman, you know, right
turn out. I mean, if if anything too, I mean,
honest to god, this guy seems like one of the
more open, honest like when it comes to actual to wrestling.
(32:52):
You know, he just he's kind of I mean, he's
not coming out and saying that everything's fake, but he's
I don't know, he's he's a little more I don't know,
he feels more not so scared about k.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Fae, that's so scared about Kpe. Well, he's doing interviews
to someone offering legitimate wrestling classes. He's not doing interviews
as a pro wrestler.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Too much help. No, I know, I know, but still
like it. It It just kind of I don't know,
it feels it just feels different, you know, it feels
very different than any other clown who usually comes out here,
like you know, trying to. I don't know, it just
it feels I don't know how to. I don't know why,
but it feels different. Someone tells me he didn't tell
these kids to never come back after a work, right right.
(33:29):
He even says, quote, if some of them never wrestle competitively,
it's time well spent. Unless your name, apparently is Terry
Bolea singled out, singled out for being whatever he is,
for being I guess big with roll band, very rock
and roll. You know he got a waha role band
rock wack roll band broke basically kind of take me down.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
On the long hair, fretless bass. You know that's what
hero had, a fretless bass. Why it was so hard
to take down? He did not fret about basis he
didn't know, he knew yet it was all about it.
In fact, much like Megan Trainer, another person Megan Trainer,
(34:14):
Tip of the Cap, who you know, became famous and
who had a hit song because she didn't care that
she was plus size, and then proceeded to lose all
of the weight as soon as she got enough money
to of course get rid of it. Hero now twenty
eight or thirty eight, it says, has never it is.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
It is such a it's such a hard it's where
we had such a hard thing. I know. It's such
a hard thing though, like because you know you you
you should want to I mean, you should be accepting
of your appearances no matter what and and whatever. But
also the same time, you know you want to be healthy,
absolutely you knows and whatnot. It's a it's a weird
(34:54):
it's such a weird dynamic. It's a very very weird dynamic.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's like anybody who was like inspired by her is
now like, oh okay, well all of that until I
get money.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Although I never even thought she was that plus size.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Just know what her whole song was about having curves? Yeah,
that was like she got big hips if she was
you know, I don't know if she's talented or not.
It seems like a talented musician to be.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
But if she.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Didn't have that part of her appeal, would she even
have had a hit song in the first place. You know,
if she was't gonna fly that flag, it's it's it's
quite a you know, everyone's gonna be out broker, you know, right,
Nantucket's own that's correct as well. Yeah, that's probably something
to do with it. He first won the World Junior
heavyweight title from Danny Hodge several years ago, and six
months ago regained the title from Ken Montero at Bayfront Center.
(35:41):
He keeps a busy schedule but manages to get back
to his school, especially for the Monday night TBWC sessions.
So there's a quick acknowledgment that heroes still grappling professionally,
but treated and talked about as if you know, it's
just as legitimate as everything else he does. So I
guess this is the point at which the Labs editor
has clearly skipped down and moved on to the next paper.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
He's he's already been fired by this point.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
So yes, that is pretty much the hero Matt Suda's story.
We've painted the picture. I think Terry looks back and says,
you know, as much as I hated the experience, at
least two guys got some enjoyment out of it. They
were Jack and Jerry Briscoe, the tag champions of Florida
Championship Wrestling. They own a body shop nearby, and they
would stop in a sea met suit to work me over.
I'd originally met Jack Briscoe at the Imperial Room. He
was a real good looking guy in a Tom Jones
(36:25):
type of way. It turned out he was in a
rock and roll so we came to some of the
clubs I played at, and I got to know him
pretty well.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I just remember everybody isn't everybody in rock and roll?
You know, like it would appear that way. I mean, like,
why is that a thing? Like it was? It's it
was the popular music, you know, It's always been like,
why is it a surprise that somebody's into rock and roll?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, it wasn't like there was a lot of other
choices back then, right before the onset of disco especially.
I just remember being in excruciating pain Terry Writes and
hearing the Briscoes laugh at me. Everyone laughed at Hultkogan.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
You notice that everyone laughed at all ye who's laughing now, correct,
that's like.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's his whole life. Yeah, exactly from Bubba all the
way back. I was their favorite form of entertainment. I'm
glad I was able to brighten their day, because they
sure weren't brightening mine.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
But hey, be nice. Jerry was impressed.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Here he is on tails from the territories giving Terry
Bully quite a bit of credit for coming back after
the ill fated first session with Hiro Matsuda.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
So Terry comes back to the Sportatorium and actually wants
some more, really, and everybody took a look at it. No,
you know, come back, come back in a couple of
days and give Terry credit. Terry called every day. I
wanted to know when he could come back. The very
next week, Terry went back in the gym. And when
we saw Terry getting in there and giving it everything
(37:46):
ahead in the back of our mind, Man, this kid
not a quitter. We got jumped in here.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Not a quitter, that's true. Give that to the man. Now,
now hold on here, hold on, let's do it. Okay.
So now, I mean, I don't know who's honest and
who's not honestly.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
But.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Hogan saying that he was gone. It took him six months, yes,
to come back, and Briscoe just said that it was
the next week, next week.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I think what he means is he expressed a desire
to continue on even if physically he couldn't, because elsewhere
Briscoe has said that basically they had to wave them
off and say no, you can't, you can't keep doing this.
You need to heal basically. So I think it's more
that he reached back out. He was calling Charlie Laigh,
he was calling the Sportatorium, and he was letting it
(38:37):
be known that he still wanted in. And don't you know,
let me be an afterthought, brother. I mean, he had
no trouble haunting these guys all around in Tampa before
he even stepped foot in the Sportatorium. It's not hard
to believe that he just continued the pattern of behavior
of bending their ear any chance he could get.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
But yes, that is that is a little weird.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
But I think in totality, when you look back knowing
that he did come back and get and did get
through Matsuit's training regiment and earned Metsuit his respect, you know,
when you look at the totality, you can say regardless
of timeline that he that he you know, was impressive
from wanting to come back. But we're gonna go here
to to a passage from Hogan's second book, because there's no, uh,
(39:16):
there's no better way to frame it up than when
Terry puts pen to paper.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
But I hung in there, just like Charlie said, and
a whole year went by. So now a whole year
goes How much time was he healing? I mean, this
should not be hard to get consistent. And I still
wasn't any closer to becoming a professional wrestler than the
day Matsuda posted my leg and broken. Finally, I think
I could take it any longer. So it's out of money,
and I think it out about quitting. When Eddie Graham
(39:42):
called me up at home, Terry, he said, I'm gonna
be there tomorrow and I'm going to work out with you.
I want to show you a few things. Eddie Graham
was a former Southern heavweight champion. I said to myself,
oh God, and what are they going to do me now?
So with all my misgivings, I went down there and
tried and trained with Eddie Graham. But it wasn't at
(40:02):
all what I expected here about Suda had taught me
a bunch of submission holes, holes that make your opponent
give up because he can't stand the pain. If I
locked up with the guy, I was supposed to try
to take his arm off. That's what I've been told
to do for the last year. I was supposed to
take my opponent's arm and post it behind him and
try to wrench it out of his socket.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Helps one move he hit. He did it on the
coach in high school, and he's still trying to do
it in the right.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's exactly it's his fucking post in the arm. If
I got a guy on a headlock, I was supposed
to rub my armbone against his ear to try to
give him a cauliflower here. If I got a chance
to hook a guy, I hooked a hook, being a
hold that was meant to break bones. I was supposed
to do that too. That's what I thought wrestling was about.
(40:52):
I thought that you were supposed to be as brutal
as possible, because that's what that's what it took to win.
All of a sudden, Eddie Graham told me, I wasn't
supposed to need I wasn't gonna need any of that
stuff anymore, he said. When you grab a guy's arm,
he said, don't twist it off instead of really hurting him,
just slide your grip around his wrist like a little
It's up to him to make faces and yell and
(41:14):
scream when you're killing them, like you're killing him.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Holkan's face like what, brother, I love how he acts
like he's shocked by this. But he also said that
sitting in the in the hester of the armor, he
could see bob Orton. The reason he went there was
because he knew it was fake and he felt comfortable.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Right, And that's the whole thing. That's that's exactitely. It
holded him like he was from Mars or something. And
when you put somebody a headlock, any Graham said, don't
try to give him a cauliflower ear. Grab him with
the soft part of your arm against his ear so
you don't hurt them.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Hurt fucking with this guy's head. This is where the
face first starts, the washed out like what this is
the first time.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
While I try not to hurt him, I asked, that's
when they told me the truth that you weren't fighting
somebody in the ring. You're cooperating, working together to put
on a show, and instead of the tougher guy winning,
the outcome was determined in advance. In wrestling terms, it
was a quote work and not a quote shoot. See
A shoot means you're really trying to hurt somebody. A
(42:24):
work means you're working with a guy dancing with him.
Ay Graham told me wrestling was a work, and I
was in shock, brother, total shock. I felt like I've
been betrayed. For the last year. I've been getting the
crap beat out of me, crap beat out of me,
learn how to hurt people and keep from hurt getting
hurt myself. But I didn't know was that any Graham
and the others thought I was going to be someone
(42:46):
special in the business. I had an attitude they had
never seen before. I wouldn't quit, so they wanted to
make sure I knew what I was doing. They wanted
to be a want They wanted to be certain that
nobody could pin my shoulders of the mats I wanted
them to. They wanted to be certain, or you wanted
to be certain, Dary Well, they what.
Speaker 6 (43:12):
You, brother?
Speaker 2 (43:13):
I mean? Everybody involved was just concerned. You know I didn't.
I didn't say anything, right, I'm not what and see
I said right, I didn't stay anything. Jeez, you're jumping
at me like I said something on the sly. What
you're jumping at me? Dude? Are you saying now? Whoa
whoa whoa whoa speak?
Speaker 1 (43:35):
I heard your shooting Paradise alley right now?
Speaker 2 (43:37):
There you go? Uh you know uh. They wanted to
be sort of that no one could be in my
shoulders to the mateles I want them to, or if
I got into a confrontation a bar, I could take
care of myself. Or if I was in Japan wrestling somebody,
I could survive whatever I would encounter over there. I
(44:02):
see now that they were doing the right thing for me,
but at the time I was devastated. Any Graham showed
me how to hit the ropes, how and run, how
to take a backdrop, stuff like that was not taking
a fucking backdrop. I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
We're about to watch some clips actually, all right.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, another time I might have welcomed it, but my
mind was on how badly I've been deceived? Were we
who's been talking? Dude?
Speaker 1 (44:31):
We're talking about how my back brother, what's work? Yeah,
it's really gonna fuck with him because you think about it.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
He went from thinking it's a work to then being
convinced it was a shoot, to then finding out it
was actually a work all along. And that right there
explains Hulkogin's psychology.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
For the rest of his life. Ye, yep, exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
He can't trust his initial instinct even though it was right.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Then. Any Graham told me something I did want to hear.
Finally I had paid my dues. I was gonna start
wrestling for real, for fake.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I was gonna say, yeah, that's a strange choice of words.
After that roller coaster he just took us on. And yeah,
he puts a little more color on that feeling of
absolute betrayal in his interview with Chris Jericho.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
So Eddie Graham taught me how to lock up and
hit the ropes and take ahead, lock and take the over.
And I started crying, and it freaked me out that
they'd you know, you know, worked me or deceive me.
You know, it just freaked me out. He asked me,
what's wrong with you? Patterson was there. Patterson was all
upset because I was like, yeah, Patterson was there watching
(45:42):
the stuff.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Was pat working down here?
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, Patterson was working there. And then Pat was I'm
gonna show you something, kid, hit the roll out. You
showed me how to take a bump of the MP
was probably about the only one ever he was getting out.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Of the right.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
But it freaked me out so much because I didn't
know what to expect that when they showed me that.
You know, you don't grab a headlock with a ball
and across gouty ground at the other way, and I'm
just totally opposite of what Matt Suita top had to work. Yeah,
and it freaked me out. You know, it just upset
me so much that I get click, these guys have
been screwing me for a year and a half and
(46:15):
they broke my eggs for another reason. Like wow, it
just hit me up, you know, on the spot. So
now I'm balling like a baby in front of Eddie Graham,
you know, because I realized what had happened to me.
But I knew better than say anything, because I figured
Eddie Graham was probably ten times worse than Matt Suita.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, which you.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Know he wasn't.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I mean, dude, like if you were that felt up
of tray. Just don't wrestle anymore, like I know, he
would be a great relief. You don't have to cry
anymore because you're not gonna get hurt.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Again, right exactly? I know, Like so they deceived you?
Grow up?
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I mean, what a choice of words. I was freaked
out like that is? Ah, isn't that as as quintessential
Hulk as it gets freaked out?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Like he's looking around.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
This is where it all starts. Yep, trust issues, brother, yep, yep,
you know, get it again.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
It's glorious about when he.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Goes on the Steve Austin Show talks about it as well,
talks about uh, Eddie Graham, Dude.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
If you started in Florida right working for Freddy Graham?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
I always heard he was a genius and they passed
before my time and I didn't get a chance to
get down there. But how much of a genius was
Eddie Graham? Well, now though I look back on it,
I mean, you know, as far as finishes and stuff,
you know, I mean, I have my own agenda when
when you're wrestling me, I've got Plan A, Plan B,
Plan C. You know, the three standard finishes, you know,
(47:37):
and then there's sometimes DNE if we need to go there,
but usually Plan A, B and C. We can draw
two three times with those finishes. But I watched Eddie
Graham for years, even though I really didn't know what
I was watching. I saw the angles, I saw all
this stuff. I saw all this these crazy finishes that
Eddie Graham had, you know. Plus he was a tough
son of a bitch, you know. He he was like
(47:58):
the stone cold Steve Astwood and blond hairry. Eddie Graham
was the tough guy. I don't know if you ever
saw him Wreussell, but that was his whole thing. And
the whole time Matt Suda was breaking me in. You
got to realize they never smarten me up. I'm real
slow about shit, you know. I love this business, and
I back then you could say whatever you want about wrestling,
meaning fake. But I thought the ship was real and
(48:19):
I believed it because we had Bob rup and and
the big old Randy's grandfather, you know, Bob Orton's dad.
I had all these guys that are Bob rup. I
had all these guys that were just worked really really snug,
and Steve Kern was very convinsing, you know when he
first started, and.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
He was having all these programs.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
So I watched all these guys. So when I was
breaking in with Matt Suda and I was getting stretched
every day, and then twice a week we take Marks
down and beat him up, and I was in charge
of getting them to where they were exhausted and ready
to pass out. Then I'd feed them with Gordon Elson
or Matt Suit and I was in charge of putting
the wood on the door so they couldn't run, you know,
for him on the back side of the door.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
What the fuck.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
And it was just it was just one of those
things that you know, it was just ingrained in me
from day one, you know, being around those guys. But
Eddie Graham and his finishes, watching him, he was just
like a genius, you know. And after I worked out
in that suita and they stretched me and beat me up,
all of a sudden, I got a call one day
(49:21):
that Eddie Graham wants to work out with you.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Shoot.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
I started crying and said, oh my god, I can't
take it anymore. I don't know what I'm in for now.
I can't I'm not gonna be able to. You know,
Eddie Graham was different than Matt Suda. Matt Suita was
killing me, but Eddie Graham was like the legend. I
was gonna quit. I was so afraid of him, but
I went down to the sports for him. I got
in the ring and he taught me how to lock up,
taught me how to go out a headlock, taught me
(49:45):
how to take a backdrop, and I started crying because
I thought it was a huge shoot. And when when
they told me that this is what we do, we're work,
I still didn't get it. I went and had my
first match with Don Serrano, several matches with Brian Butlair,
and I never heard the word k fabe. I didn't
even know what k fab meant. And I was in
the ring in the first match, and all the heels
and all the baby faces would come out and watch
(50:06):
my matches. I couldn't figure out why they were a
Heeman and han and laughing because I was trying to
beat Brian Blair and I was trying to beat Gordon Nelson.
I couldn't beat either one of them because I didn't
know how to wrestle as good as them, you know,
So it took me a while to catch on. But
Eddie Graham and his finishes and stuff, he was the
genius man from day one.
Speaker 6 (50:25):
Fan Wrestling Podcast, the wrestling podcast that knows the boys
(50:59):
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Sign up for ad free shows and even more content
(51:20):
at patreon dot com Slash the Lapsed Fan. He's the
(51:41):
Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack and carn Seo m
JP Sorrow.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
So even after Eddie Graham tells him it's a work,
he still has to hold on to this whole. I
wander to the ring the first time, not knowing if
it was a shoot. Did you hear him thread that
needle there?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Basically?
Speaker 1 (52:00):
You know, I started to go in there and try
to beat Don Serrano and Brian Blair for real.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
I just don't understand. It's like, it's so fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
It's like he doesn't want to He wants to tell
this story, this origin story, but it doesn't want to
let go of that thing that every wrestler of that era,
for some reason, clings to that.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I went into the ring for my first match not
knowing if it was real or not. It's just what
of mine?
Speaker 1 (52:22):
This guy's fucking he can't you just fucking grow up?
And he's fucking himself his head up more than anybody else's.
But yeah, so we've done our.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Best, folks.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
I hope, uh, I hope you feel exhausted as I
do by trying to get to the bottom of the
met Suda thing, just to to kiss it goodbye, so
to speak. We're going to go to Terry's book one
last time. This is the second book, his second chance
to put pen to paper on this whole mats Suita thing.
Speaker 5 (52:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
And before we kick it over to the boss man
for the dramatic reading again, just to review METSUITA. I
was so out of it by then a practice they
practically rolled me in the ring.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
This is after you know, getting ragged on for his
long hair, being called a hippie, pressing so hard he
was ready to puke, having a run around the stadium.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
I mean, it's just funny to me too. What I
find to be hilarious is that what what I mean,
I understand the whole thing is that he didn't quit.
But what rational person would actually let themselves go through
this kind of thing for that long a time? If there,
(53:28):
if he didn't know something a little more about it, right,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yeah, if he thought that all he was doing was
torturing himself so that he could go in there and
still fight for his life.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Right Like, it just doesn't it doesn't compute.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
I don't know why it's so important for him to
act like he didn't know it was a work until
Eddie Graham showed him to showed him a headlock.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
But they all are they're all like that, these old
school guys. They all talk about how it was the
last second, and it's like, I just can you imagine
being thrown into it? Like it would be completely unsafe.
It wouldn't go out there right o things. I mean,
I know, I mean, it's just it's just all It's like,
(54:10):
I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm just a whimp, or
maybe I'm a little bit smarter. I don't know. But
like if I was going to some place like that
for six months and all I was doing was getting
beaten up and ragged on, I wouldn't go anymore, especially
you know, in all this the working shooting thing, especially
if you yourself say the reason you got comfortable going
(54:31):
out to be a wrestler was because you realized it
was fake. So why are you going through such a
psychological torture when you when you figured it out before
you ever walked into that gym.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
I don't know right, Maybe he just flipped the script
on him. Maybe these all these circumstances. Maybe being so
out of it, they practically rolled him in the ring,
and suddenly Matsuda comes out of nowhere and jumps on
top of me. I hit the canvas, jumps out of it,
comes out of nowhere. I don't know about that. The
way Jerry describes it, it was just a straight up engagement,
and matt Suit had just had to keep dialing up
the intensity because you were offering distance. I don't know
(55:00):
about jumping on you from behind. I don't know why
what you would insist on? What superimposing that circumstance onto
Who's going from behind? Brother behind, that's who. It comes
out of nowhere and jumps on top of me. That's
what he wrote in this bood I hit the canvas.
He drops down, puts an elbow down in the middle
of my left leg, grabs my foot and wrenches it
as hard as he can. In the opposite direction, that
your leg is built to go crack. He broke my
(55:22):
leg in half right in the middle of my shin.
There's your bone, the shin boss, the shin right broke
his shin in half.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
And again I sit here, I sit here, one, I
sit here, and I ask you sid Udy had the
same fucking thing happened to him where his shin was
broken in half and he couldn't wrestle again. Yet this
clown can well. Yeah, I was a lot younger, dude,
(55:51):
and I lived in a hotel. I live in a hotel.
That's the difference, I brot. I was making more money
than all the kids in high school. Dude, I have
two cars, so big differences. A man too. I was done.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
I couldn't move. Matt Tuda didn't even say anything to me.
He just left me rolling around. He didn't say anything
to you. I thought he said, Noe, never come back here.
That's what you said one hundred times and one hundred
interviews that we just played. He just left me rolling
and nagon in the canvas. And by the way, I
didn't hear a pop. And then on the Tales from
the Territory set, Brisco said, everyone hurt a pop when
I had say to put the hold on.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
This is difficult.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
I'm sure they all thought that was the last I'd
see if Tory bolea what fool would come back for
more of that? To your point, their boss, So why
don't do fast forward as we do one last retelling
of this hugely important canonical story in the history of
hulkogin every single day, brother.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Oh here we are? There we are? Yeah, every single day.
My dad laid into me for being a quitter. I'm
thinking I could do something as stupid as wrestling to
make a living. I don't know what. Now, why is
he mad? Wait a minute, his dad at being angry
about this whole fucking thing is makes no sense, no
sense at all. Why the guy who fucking a guy
who fucking ate cockroach ice cream? All right?
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Why if you don't think he should be a wrestler,
are you mad at him for quitting trying to become
a wrestler? Like, I don't want you to be a wrestler,
that's so ridiculous. But why did you quit trying to
become a wrestler?
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Why? Why? Dad? I don't want I never wanted to
be a wrestler. I never wanted to do that to yourself.
But what I my biggest problem is that you fucking
quit being a wrestler. Why do you, bitch? It's one
thing to never consider being a wrestler. It's an entirely
different thing to consider being a wrestler than quitting. You
(57:42):
realize that now the only way you can please me
is if you wrestle until you pass away. Even though
I don't want you to wrestle, you know I never
wanted to wrestle. I never want you to wrestle. I
prefer that you never wrestle again. But the only way
you can make me proud of you is if you
wrestle every day.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
It's starting to make sense that as soon as Terry
Bolea actually dips his toe one of the water of
becoming a wrestler, it'll become his whole life becomes a
hall of mirrors and nothing makes sense and everything is
upside down. Left is right, it is yang, the ball
is being hidden right, this is it. This is Terry
is just not wired for the contradiction. Yes, mister math,
(58:21):
mister patterns, I like it. You know I could play
music because it was like math, I can always fin
And now he's going headlong into something that has no
logic to it.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Oh my god, it's it's fucking chaos. It's like it's
like that. It's it's that you remember that there was
like an old, old meme of of overhead shots of
New York City and the grid, and then it was
an overhead look of the streets of Boston and it
was chaos, you know, like right exactly, there's no easy
(58:54):
way to navigate. H I don't. I don't want to
make it seem like like he was a bad guy.
But all years later, my dad was about as proud
of me as any dad could be. Ye wrestled every
day in my life until I died.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
He was as proud as he could because you were
making millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (59:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
It's like George Carlin once said, when your dad tells
you he wants you to amount to something, he means
make a lot of money. How do you think the
word amount got in there?
Speaker 2 (59:24):
Uh? Uh, make a make a lot of money so
I don't have to work as as long as I
as I'm supposed to further, so I don't have to
face people in my life, right, you know, And the
shame that comes with pursuing better than frivolous.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Yeah for the list outcome, because you heard Ruth, you know,
stepping over Peter in some of those interviews, like you
know we had we had a Lincoln like, don't don't think, well,
you know we weren't. I used to teach music and
dance too, you know, she she's very much she wants
I was a wrestling trainer. I know what you think
music and dance. I know what you think about wrestling.
(59:58):
But I have a condo on the beach.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
So that's right.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Let's let's let's keep some perspective here.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Let's just understand that that that the fake sport has
brought the realist things in our own.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Ah, thank you, boss for land in the plane. Land
in the fucking plane at Tampa General or whatever they
call the airport up on this thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Brother. Yeah, well they constantly let me know it, and
I'll never forget that. Honestly, at the moment, he at
the moment, he had every ride to be pissed. Hm,
he just had no idea how resolved that was to
make this wrestling thing work. This thing, Oh, that's.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
That's all the way back to to h.
Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
This thing, this wrestling thing work.
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
What he means is a thing. By a thing, he
means something that results in a direct deposit into.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
His bank account. Yes, exactly's what this thing is and
the next thing. At the end of those ten ten weeks,
when the when the legs was finally feeling good, I
headed back over to the Sportatorium and walked up up
to my friend Charlie Lay. My friend Charlie lay, mister lay,
I'm here to see mister matt suit and so is
that I call most of my friends mister whoever?
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, you should have met Charlie's brother, Fredo.
Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
The god all faded, damn kid that they told me
that you know they were getting rid of you and
you would never be back here. He goes, Are you
sure you want to see that suit again? Yeah? I
want to see that suit again. The thing was over
those ten weeks. My whole mindset had moved away from
their crazy naive. I want to be a blonde hairb
super sharp Billy isn't. Isn't Billy Graham? A blonde haired
(01:01:48):
super Billy Graham isn't.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Yeah, Well, he's saying that he's moved away from one
to be like Billy Graham.
Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Well no, I know that, But but why does hul
Cogan want to be a blonde haired Why is he
specifying a blonde haired super star Billy Graham when Billy
Graham is this blonde haired super star Billy Graham.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Well, yeah, I don't think he's saying blonde haired to
provide something that's contradictory to what Graham looked like.
Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
It just that sence didn't make any sentence at all.
The thing, now, my whole mindset, my mindset was never
give up. And John Cena, I right, you seemed to
take the careful notes. I knew I wanted to be
a wrestler, and there was no way they were ever
going to take advantage of me again. Before I showed up,
(01:02:36):
I cut my long hair completely off. No more hippie taunts.
They'd have to work harder to find a way to
break me down. As far as I was concerned, they
couldn't get rid of me. I wound up in the
ring with that suit again and again that day, only
this time when he tried to take my leg, I
blocked him.
Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
So okay, So stories from the ring. He went into
the ring one day, got his leg broken by Matsuda.
He's gone ten weeks and now he knows how to block. Well.
Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
He's trying to make you think that he knew how
to block the first time, but he was so unsure
of the protocol that he just you.
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Know, I don't know. I didn't know anything about wrestling
other than what I watched on TV and it's seen
in the ring. But I was physical enough, and I've
been working out long enough to have a real good grip.
I'll served me well. When he got my arm, instead
of let him break it, I knew. I knew enough
to get it away from him. Whenever he tried to
hurt my neck, I knew enough to get my head away.
(01:03:36):
I wouldn't let him take anything. Brother, this is where
it starts. Yep. My suitor was more pissed than ever.
It was his mission to try to break me, but
he couldn't. I walked out of there alive and unbroken,
and vowed to come back the next day. Word going
around that I was back, and all of a sudden,
the other wrestler started coming down during the day just
(01:03:57):
to wash me get tortured, and the other guys were
just beat on me and beating on me and I
wouldn't give in until one day it finally turned a corner.
My suitors started smiling when I fought back. It got
to the point where he started liking me because I
wouldn't give up. I mean, he'd choke me out, put
me in a submission hold like you see in the UFC,
the Open Fighting Championship, in case you don't know what
(01:04:18):
the fuck that means, where where they do mixed martial arts.
If you don't even know what the I mean, Jesus Christ,
as if as if like this was twenty eleven or
something like that, becausand nine this book came out. Yep,
that's right. I mean, if you don't know what UFC is,
(01:04:38):
If you don't know what UFC is, like you're you
shouldn't be reading when shoot fighting became a thing? You know?
Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Oh you know, how can I like retro fit my
whole life to pretend that I could?
Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Brother? Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa?
Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Dude?
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Hold on, who's shooting there? They're shooting? Brother?
Speaker 6 (01:04:54):
Like?
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
What do you mean?
Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
Brother?
Speaker 7 (01:04:56):
You?
Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I was in Pride in the seventies, was Pride guys?
Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Did I want you? I mean? Are people coming from me?
Speaker 5 (01:05:06):
Brother.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Right, well is where it starts.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
He's he's you know, this is him being afraid of
being taken advantage of in the ring.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Uh And I would not tap. Of course, no one
would tap back then no one knew what tapping was.
Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
He just said in one of the other interviews with Jericho,
I think it was, you know, I tap or I
learned my lesson. I wouldn't you let him take me
to the limit to break anything again. But now he
wouldn't tap.
Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Right, he made me pass out. I still wouldn't quit.
I was crazy. Finally, Matt Suda invited me to come
down to his gym on a daily basis. Okay, now
you're really now we're really going to get serious. He said,
what work could he do? I was thinking, oh my god,
what he did. What he did was set out to
(01:05:56):
make me as fit as possible, as fit as I
possibly could be. Every day he'd set me into a
routine of jumping squats, jumping squats, jumping squats for an
entire hour. He had a Japanese kid there named Lance.
I used to watch and count so I couldn't cheat.
And that after that he made me run. I'd go
(01:06:16):
out the front door, and he'd get in his station
wagon and follow around ten feet behind me. He made
me just run forever, all the way down and around
Tampa Stadium. Once i'd circle the stadium, I'd get to
run back. Remember back in middle school, in high school,
how I was the guy who could barely run between
two goalposts. Nothing has changed, Nothing had changed for all
(01:06:39):
the weightlift and I did. I never ran a day
in my life. But but he'd get in the car,
and I swear to God, I thought he would run
me right over if I stopped. He had me so
psyched out that I just kept going and going all
Tod told those about two and a half three miles
a day. This went on for nearly a year. The
(01:06:59):
whole time I noticed other wrestlers coming in and joining
the ranks. Paul mister Warden Florendorff, who played football for
the University of Tampa and been drafted in in the
New Orleans Saints, decided he wanted to be a wrestler.
Came in, got some training and was gonna and I
was i'p getting matched it in some In something like
eight weeks, I thought, is something wrong with me? And
why has he got that I don't know. Brian Blair
(01:07:21):
came in worked out for a while and the same
thing happened. I thought, damn, and why am I still here.
What I didn't realize was that Mansuda light having me
as his boy. Whenever a new mark would show up
wanting to get into the wrestling business, I was the
one who'd go down and work them and work them
and exercise them until they went away. I was in
(01:07:42):
such good shape that I could usually work them until
they puked or faded and left. If I couldn't run,
or if I couldn't run them off, mat Suda would
come in and take care of them the same way
he tried to take care of me the first day.
I never hurt anybody or anything like that, but he
was really happy to have me there, and he didn't
want me to if you want to, want to let
me go. Finally, over a year into this, Jack and
(01:08:04):
Jerry Briscoe came in to see me. They always liked
me from back when they had come to see Raucus
at the clubs, and for some reason they finally decided
to break ranks with the guys who still thought me
as a mark. They decided to bring me in the
into the fold. I have a present for you, Jack said,
(01:08:24):
as he handed me a brand new pair of wrestling boots. Darry,
you're having your first match next week. I've been so
focused on getting strong and just hoping and praying that
this day would come. I almost couldn't believe it when
I was finally here. All of a sudden, I was
scared of death. The thing was for all the hard
work I'd put in, the training, the exercise, getting in
(01:08:46):
this unbelievable shape I was in. Don't want to give
me any of the inside scoop on wrestling, yet I
heard in terms like work, which meant you know you
were faking it, and yeah, you'd make it look like
you were twisting somebody's arm when you weren't, when you
really weren't hurting them at all. Then there was a shoot,
(01:09:06):
which means you're really doing the deed and hurting them
like a real fight. That's a shoot. But I didn't
know when to work or when to shoot. Brother, you
never shoot, because right I still don't even know for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
The the.
Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
You added that the people have to know we have
to be transparent.
Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Yes, yes, that was that was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
I'm like scrambling, try to.
Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Look up the thing the text like no way, And
I didn't highlight that and make it like seventy two
point font in my notes.
Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
No, he's I still didn't even know for sure that
the outcome of the matches were predetermined. No one taught me
any of that. There we go again. I'll go to
the ring. You don't need to know the finish. Just
go to the ring. Okay. I saw get in there
and something in between of work and a shoot would happen. Yeah,
that's the rest of his life, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
No matter how much he made and how much control
he got over everything that happened, the guy still was
horrified that it could become a shoot in any moment.
Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Unreal. This is where it's all initial traumas right here. Yep,
what happened, and we'd improvise in the ring from start
to finish. I still have the outcome of the match
was something real, you know. I knew I didn't involve
trying to kill each other, but I thought that somehow
the better wrestler would win. I would have to figure
(01:10:35):
it out on my own, and it would all have
to get clear real fast. The thing I didn't realize
was that some of the other wrestlers were still planning
on having a few laughs and Mockspence, were they ever?
Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Terry concludes that series of thoughts with the following from
the day MATSUITA broke my leg until now, he writes,
not a day's gone by when I haven't been in
some kind of pain. So it's Brother's exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
That's too rich.
Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Well, we've gotten Hogan's perspective on what these torture sessions
were like. And don't just take his word for it.
Steve Kern was actually pretty illustrative and his excellent book
with Ian Douglas, Volume one of the Kern Chronicles, and
this will take us a little bit further into what
was happening back then at one o six North Albany.
He writes, the Tampa's Sbortatorium one of six North Albany
serve as the home building with a championship wrestling from
(01:11:34):
Florida Territory taped it's weekly television. It's like a furnace
in there due to lack of air conditioning.
Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
There is no ac in here, no acaine building. Just
imagine the smell.
Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I mean, this is Tampa Florida, folks. You get off
the plane in February and you feel like you can't
breathe right right, It's like a furnace in there. There
was one ring in the center of the building, and
it was set up for a one camera shoot. Gordon
Soli served as the legendary announcer of the television program,
coloring the action with his unmistakable gravelly voice. I was
already intimately familiar with the Sportatorium by that time. In fact,
(01:12:08):
I was uncomfortably familiar with it. I'd sadden the building's
bleachers with Mike a few times to watch what happened
when guys attempted to break into the wrestling business after
Eddie had already decided that they had no future in it.
I'd sit and cringe while the would be wrestlers were
brutally stretched and pummeled and then physically discarded back into
the parking lot. The majority of the unwitting victims were
guys like bodybuilders and football players who were interested in
(01:12:29):
becoming wrestlers. Once inside of the Sportatorium, they would be
ushered inside of the ring with shooters, guys like Bob Rupe,
Jack Briscoe here of Metsuda and a few other wrestlers
who really knew how to fight well. The interactions would
commence with the would be wrestlers getting stretched, and a
level of violands would drastically ramp up and culminate with
the applicants getting beaten relentlessly. There was also no escape.
The sportatorium doors would be chained shut. I thought it
(01:12:50):
was a piece of wood terry. I thought you were
in charge of to prevent them from retreating to safety.
I had well founded fears that some of the poor
suckers might actually die. Let me ask you question. If
the point is to run these guys off so that
they don't want to be wrestlers, why are you stopping
them from running.
Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Out of the building. I know, why are you fucking
locking the door? Isn't that what you want? That's that's
the irony of fucking wrestling. It's like they're they're so
fucking they like they actually just want to beat them up, right,
they're actually you can run away after the session's over,
but we're gonna beat the shit out of you while
you're here, right, Yeah, then we're not gonna let you
leave until we're done.
Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
There's no virtue in being a sadist. You know, Eddie,
no offense. I want to try this, but I don't
want to get the crap beat out of me. I admitted,
that's what I've seen. Eddie shook his head. Those are
guys we need to make examples of explaining no, it's fake.
I'm gonna break you into business the right, well, the
real way, he says. The real way began when Eddie
sent me down to this sportatorium to meet with wrestler
and trainer here in Matsuda, who had already known for
(01:13:44):
several years. Workouts were initiated when Matsuda would break out
a deck of cards, shuffle it, and then flip over
the top of the card. Over the top card. Whatever
card came up corresponded to a number of free squats.
After several exhausting rounds of squats, we'd graduate to sets
of other basic exercises like backbridges and push ups. Finally,
after I was already half dead from the calisenic training,
we'd get in the ring and Matt Suda would want
(01:14:04):
to wrestle. I didn't have any amateur wrestling background that
I'll draw from, so whenever I tried to grab hero
he would slip away and stretch me ruthlessly. There was
no such thing as tapping out in those days. I
was forced to scream, yell, or holler I quit. Adding
to the discomfort of the training was the fact that
we were meeting in the sport Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
See, exactly, no tapping out. There was no tapping out. Terry,
I tap, I tap.
Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
No fucking according to the discomfort of the training was
adding to the discomfort. Rather, it was the fact that
we were meeting in the sportatorium in the middle of July.
That's when the heat would climb to about one hundred
degrees in the center of the ring when you factored
in the additional warmth radiating from the light that was
beaming down on top of you. So I was sweating
like crazy in there. But I was doing the best
(01:14:48):
I could because I wanted to make a favorable impression
and I didn't want to let Eddie down after he'd
chown so much faith in me. Whenever I came home
training with Matt Suda, I had matt burns all over
my entire body, from my forehead and my nose down
to my elbows and knees. I was also exhausted, horribly sore,
and savagely beaten. I was stretched so hard during each
session that I felt like I was getting taller by
the day. When my mom caught me dragging myself back
(01:15:09):
into the house each day looking like I'd been mugged,
she asked me, what was going on? They're teaching me
to be a pro wrestler, I groaned, a pro wrestler,
Mom asked, but I thought pro wrestling was fake tremendous. Ah, hey,
so did I, I remarked, Are you sure you want
to do this? She asked, I wasn't sure I wanted
to do it, and all honesty I did.
Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Are you sure? Are you sure you want to lose
my favor?
Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
My goodness, Steve, could you keep doing this? I'm gonna
let you know right now.
Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Your father wasn't a pow in Vietnam, so you could
go be some phony balogney pretending.
Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
So you could be a fucking bitch right all right now, Look,
I'm gonna give you one last chance.
Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
I just talked to Pete Bully and he told me
this is how to deal with someone who I don't
want to be a pro wrestler. You get your ass
down there and you don't stop until you're a wrestler.
Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
I'm gonna tell you one thing right now. Okay, you
keep going if you if you decide you want to
do this, I'm I wanted to disown you, But if
you decide to quit, I'm going to disown you. I'm
going to kill you.
Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
I wasn't sure I wanted to do it. In all honesty,
I did want to quit at the time, but I
would have been too embarrassed to do so. Eddie had
become directly involved with the entire training process as well,
including getting in the ring and wrestling with me. I
didn't want to disappoint him, after all, he was like
a father to me. Yeah, it's important to note that
him and Mike were very close friends growing up, and
he knew Eddie even divorced from wrestling. My training continued
with its savage consistency for somewhere between four to six months.
(01:16:29):
At times, I considered leaving the state of Florida simply
to hide from Eddie so that I wouldn't have to
continue training. Imagine that I'm going to leave so I
don't have to continue to train to be a wrestler.
A buying seriously, and also to avoid graduating to an
actual wrestling career where I might get placed in the
ring in front of a live audience and beaten up
even worse. Fortunately, after months of training, Eddie pulled me
aside here it is and clude me into the reality
(01:16:50):
of what had been happen to me. So here's some
secondhand confirmation of the dynamic Terry experienced. Ye yep, you've
proved to us that you respect our business, said Eddie proudly.
You stuck with it, You gave it your all. You
never questioned anything, You never asked about the realism. You
just did what you were told. Now I'm going to
teach you how to work.
Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Work.
Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
I asked, what are you talking about? I don't know
what he meant, but it didn't sound good. One of
the reasons I wanted to wrestle was because I hadn't
wanted to become a construction worker or perform any of
the tasks I associated with the actual work. Yeah, you
got that in common with Terry, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Yeah, exactly. He does not want to work.
Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
I don't want to be Bacon in the Tampa Sun, Dude,
you know.
Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
I want to bank. Listen, I want to If I
want a tan brother, I want to do it on
my own. I don't want to get tan in the sun.
I want to get tanned in a tanning bed and
get skin cancer. Roller.
Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
I'm going to teach you how to wrestle another guy,
said Eddie. When you're refereed. I told the guys to
k fabe because you weren't smart to the business. You
never really saw what we were doing in that ring.
All you knew was to count to three when you
had to, because he had been a referee already. What
was that word you used, I asked, k fabe. It
means that we need to give the impression everything is
real because someone is around that doesn't know that we're working,
said Eddie.
Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Come on, I'll show you.
Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
I followed Eddie's lead and we both climbed into the
sport of to I'm going to show you a collar
and elbow lock up, said Eddie. We applied the familiar
face to face tie up with our arms. Then Eddie
backed me into the corner. Then he pulled my arms
down to my sides. Let's see what this feels like
to you, said Eddie. Out of the blue, Eddie whacked
me so hard red in the neck with his fist
that I felt the goosebump shoot straight down to my butthole.
It was like a bolt of lightning had blasted its
(01:18:18):
way right through me. As I was staggering along the
ropes trying to recover from that sudden right hand to
the neck, Eddie said, Now that's how you punch. I
punched the side of the neck with my whole fist. Now,
if I was to grab your throat in a flash,
Eddie lurched forward, grabbed my throat and started squeezing it
to the point where he was nearly crushing my Adam's apple.
How do you react to this, continued Eddie. I began
flailing with my arms and waving them around in a panic,
(01:18:40):
like I've been seeing plenty of guys do during prior
wrestling matches that I had viewed. In response to this
improper reaction, Eddie clamped down on my neck even harder,
so that I instinctively reached up and tried to pry
his hands from my throat. That's the way you've got
to do it, said Eddie. You've got to react the
way that you would react if it was real To
communicate to the audience that it is real. That's how
you sell. Imagine that, boss, imagine that, I'd swear. That's
(01:19:02):
the exact moment my voice changed. It went from a
quality singing voice to being a lot more coarse and
gravelly in response to Eddie clamping down on my throat
to give my first lesson and selling a chokehold. From
that moment on, I was no longer getting stretched and
then forced through an endless battery of Calisenic exercises. Instead,
I was stepping into the ring and working out by
learning how to work during wrestling matches, along with learning
up to ten very basic moves. Because during this period
(01:19:25):
of my training that I was also working out with
Jack Briscoe, an NCAA champion wrestler and one of the
most exciting pro wrestlers in the world that I most
looked up to a great deal. Eddie informed me that
my first match would be coming up shortly, and I
was feeling nervous about how I would look to the
crowd during my first showing. I don't know how I'm
supposed to wrestle, I revealed to Jack. I only know
a few moves. Steve, there's something you need to know
it ain't all about moves, advised Jack. You don't need
(01:19:48):
to do a bunch of moves to be successful in
this business. It's about how you get along with the
rest of the boys.
Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
In this business. It's too intense.
Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
That will be the main thing that determines how how
good you get to look to an audience.
Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
It's not about the moves. It's not about how many
moves you have. It's about it's about other things that
I'm just not talking about. Well, thanks for that news,
I can use What do you mean? I'm just not
I'm just not interested in sharing this information right now.
Great title for his book, what do you mean? I asked?
Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
A lot of it has to do how you're accepted
in that dressing room at a jack. Always be humble,
walk over to each individual, shake their hand, and introduce
yourself to them. When you talk to your opponent and
ask them, is there anything you want me to do?
Is there anything you want me to do? Also tell
them if you're hurt, please tell me, so I don't
go over to that area. So I'm just supposed to
(01:20:44):
do what other guys want me to do. I followed
up Steve, right now you are a giver. You have
nothing to offer to nobody, explain Jack. When you're in
the beginning, all you do is give, give, give, give.
You don't want nothing, you don't take nothing. You listen
and you pay attention. Pay attention to what I asked.
This is Terry could have used a talk to me
too like this.
Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
H Uh, Well, you gotta pay attention to nonsense.
Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
You go out and watch every match, order Jack. If
you're in the first match on the card, don't shower,
put your towel around your neck, and then go stand
out there and watch every match. See what the guys
are doing, see what moves they're making, see what the
people want and what they're excited about. For sure, you
want to watch the main event and add figure out
why those guys are in the main event and what
they're doing different from everybody else. You have to be
(01:21:32):
like a sponge because you're a minnow and a sea
of sharks. And if you don't like somebody, never let
them know it. Be kind and humble.
Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
So there you go. On his way as well.
Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
Steve Kern learning under the same system with a little
bit more of a white glove treatment. No Hero Matsuda
snapping his leg in half. But well, that's the thing,
that's the way it goes.
Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Well, it's if he had a blonde hair and was
aw and roll guy, he probably would have gone through it.
And if he had an issue with my Graham, hey,
well you've got.
Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
The Dan Spivey came through and famously, you know, quit
and Jack went to shake Jack Briscoe's hand, and Jack
Briscoe told Dan Spivey, I don't shake hands with quitters.
Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
I'm I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Well, I don't shake hands with anybody. I also don't
shake hands with people who don't quit. But that's neither
here nor there. I don't shake hands with quitters. I
don't shake hands with people who who don't quit. I
just don't shake hands. But I do shake hands when
I'm a little nervous. My hand shakes. So there's the
irony in it.
Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
All good stuff bal.
Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
But a decade later here met Suit is still down there,
the guy you have, you know, the second to last
boss you have to go through to get to the ring.
And Scott Hall, who was you know, a bouncer and
at the Dollhouse and all that shit, was looking to
break into the business. And let's say then the bloom
was summed off the roads? Is it regards being broken
in in this way? Scott Hall once told Wade Keller,
(01:23:06):
I was trading with Hiro Matsuda.
Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
You know what he used to be.
Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
I moved to Tampa. I've never had a real job.
Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
I used to have tend bar in a strip club.
It was the hottest bar in Orlando. A couple of
my buddies give a hundred backs. I moved to Tampa.
I don't know a soul. I get an apartment. I
joined every gym in town, finally got Athletes Fitness Center.
I ran into Kevin Sullivan. I did squats with him.
I'm hanging around trying to get in, but see I'm
not going. A guy's going, hey man, how are you
going to wrestling? How do I go into wrestling? Because
I know they want to hear that. So one day
(01:23:32):
in the end, me and Barry Windham are in publics
and we're both looking at stakes, no doubt we're picking
out steaks. We're standing looking at stakes and I say,
excuse me, you're Burry Windom right. He says, yeah, how
you doing? It's Berry's cool as fuck. I said, hey,
I'm Scott All. How you doing, man? He says, hey,
(01:23:53):
I said, I know. The last thing you want to
be is bothered when you're out on your own time.
But I'm really trying to break into your business. He said,
what are you doing? I said, I'm working out with
Hero mat Suda. He said, fuck Hero Matt Suda. He's
gonna have you. Yes he did, Yes, he's gonna have
you doing Hindu squats around the building. Me me the
sportatorium tomorrow one o'clock. I showed up at noon because
(01:24:14):
I know Berry Wyndham aint gonna show up.
Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
That's Barry Wyndham.
Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
So they the tried and trude methods of Hero Matsuda
Guys's cage. Scott Hall found a way around that sound
of a bit real quick to making millions. So so
much for that being a necessary precursor to becoming a
pro wrestler in the state of Florida. It only took
about ten years for the bloom to come off that rose.
So we've heard it described and terrifying and flowery terms
(01:24:41):
by the likes of Terry Boleya and Brian Blair.
Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
And Steve Kern.
Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Let's get a look at what some of these workout
sessions may very well have.
Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Looked like in this sportatorium.
Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Because one of the great revelations over the years is
WW acquired territorial wrestling footage from around the world, was
that they had tape, they had film reels of Terry
boleya training in the sportatorium in this year long period
we just talked about when he came back after the
initial injury, his rail fin and had yet to really
(01:25:12):
discover the wonders of steroids and had really yet to
dial this thing in. So first, what we're going to
look at, and I just sent it to you is
something that aired in nineteen seventy four on Championship Wrestling
from Florida. It's basically a film reel demonstrating a series
of wrestling techniques being almost exhibited. It's not a match
as much as it is footage of workouts, with Gordon
(01:25:33):
Soley of course voicing over what it is we're seeing.
We had to see the likes of Kuser, of Viziri,
the future Iron Chic who was working the territory at
the time in their delivering moves, to see Wilhelm Ruski,
I believe as well, who was a gold medalist in
judo who had a brief wrestling career and was working
the territory at the time. And eventually we're going to
switch around to the footage of Terry Bolea that surfaced
(01:25:53):
later and what he looked like in some of these
early training sessions. So if you want to follow along
at home, it's again courtesy of the one O six
North Alb on the YouTube page, it's called c WF
Workout Video at the Sport of Tourning of nineteen and
seventy four. You ready to drink in? Yes, these sessions
looked and felt like perhaps.
Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
I am so fucking ready.
Speaker 8 (01:26:14):
Here we go three two one play.
Speaker 9 (01:26:29):
Here we're getting into some actual moves and we have
a combination here of two Europeans, Less Artin from England
and Ali Vasari from Irania.
Speaker 5 (01:26:38):
Well, this, of course is what we could call it
the belly soupe play. That's pretty American that move. But
and here again another sup play type of takedown.
Speaker 10 (01:26:45):
Anything where the man goes over backwards onto his own
head and feeds the man to his back is a
soup play and is very Europeans.
Speaker 5 (01:26:53):
Of course.
Speaker 9 (01:26:53):
Basari was the Iranian champion. He also coached the US
team in the Olympics, and he was a greg Roman
amateur chandler, a tremendous example of this right and of.
Speaker 10 (01:27:03):
Course that was what you call belly the backs play
and took a man right into a penning position.
Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Danny Hodge.
Speaker 9 (01:27:09):
And there's Danny Hodge twice in the Olympics.
Speaker 7 (01:27:12):
Yes, well, I know it's a long stout that we
don't see too much of anymore down but of course
that's because of the superhuman strength and Hodges possesses and
stays them out out of trouble. There was a beautiful
side chance be by Roup, tremendous impact on the ring
of course, an impact on the nervous system. By the way,
with all these impact type.
Speaker 10 (01:27:30):
Of fallsidentally is a guy is a style that brings
together the best of both the European and American styles,
and it's it's kind of typical of the young men
of today. Look at this lake sweep for the takedown,
also sort of typical of the Japanese type of takedown
and also European.
Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
But the kind of man was using all like a workout.
Speaker 9 (01:27:53):
And Charles two Englishman, and watched the tremendous power.
Speaker 7 (01:28:00):
They talked about the agility of a gazelle and this
man for super seeds and.
Speaker 9 (01:28:05):
Charles, of course was on the World Championship rugby team
which was also an amateur champion in wrestling and beginning
to show at tremendous shot in the British Isles.
Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Chances of what he's trying to educate his audience to see.
Speaker 5 (01:28:16):
Literally everything that Tharnton does involves sweeps.
Speaker 10 (01:28:18):
Notice that he sweeps for the legs. That earlier move
there was a regular wrist lock, but then he swept
the lake. This is that foundation for the wristlock and
the sweep of the leg very effective shot their television
in his one hundred.
Speaker 5 (01:28:29):
Degrees No, so he favors over Wizard the moment.
Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
At basically they're again.
Speaker 10 (01:28:36):
Using the the soup play takedown, but getting in underneath
good and tied, hooking the arms and so forth.
Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
He's got Charles overlooked.
Speaker 10 (01:28:45):
And there's something that young fellows in wrestling must observe.
You can get into a bad position and there again.
Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Count was making the move is countered by Tony.
Speaker 5 (01:28:55):
And got himself jumped on his back for his I.
Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Can almost believe that this is what arresting fireman carry. There.
Speaker 7 (01:29:01):
See how teep there and got in there, and then
he came right into reverse to Nelson and Croutch.
Speaker 10 (01:29:05):
And there again American using the fireman carry, which is
a sort of a typical American takedown, and he was
good at it.
Speaker 5 (01:29:12):
Jack Briscoe is another very fine environment carry.
Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Take that Tenny Hodge versus the iron sheet.
Speaker 7 (01:29:17):
You've got awful deep in here. Here comes the counter
it with him over balance. But notice how he sort
of a wizard backge there and took him over with.
Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
It the right which he had set up with the
with the leg dive.
Speaker 10 (01:29:29):
And there again America is a great leg divers and
that and they're looking walking into the little fashioned American.
Speaker 9 (01:29:35):
Drop flying rap kicked by Charles that rocked Danny Odge.
And now I'm going to see Les an expert with
his flying drop kick. Wow, mind you Now this is
just a workout, and yet workout bomber was shattered by
that flying drop kick.
Speaker 10 (01:29:53):
Gat You know, Gordon, the only way you can get
in shape and when you're working out is to give
it everything you've got, one hundred percent.
Speaker 9 (01:30:01):
Now it's Harley Race going up against the cart Rodriguez
in another and this one attacks that nervous system too,
doesn't it generally in the same way.
Speaker 7 (01:30:08):
You're hitting it from different directions, So and it's just
not felt in that localized area where you see the
impact there in the custos area the attack. I'm sure
the man's got a numbing and his hands and feet
and so har I'd be thinking.
Speaker 9 (01:30:21):
And here's this highly controversial situation with Harley Race that
has been declared legal by the nw A and using
his head as a battering ram coming down against the
side of the head of the celende and its generally
disaster for any competitor.
Speaker 7 (01:30:35):
Well it took so anyone it's not in superhuman conditions
certainly would be the off.
Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
The top of Hartley Tony.
Speaker 10 (01:30:41):
This is a very effective takedown Tony Charles, as you
said earlier, demonstrating how he works out with this thing,
and drop kick here very effective. All of these are
moves that they have been praying at and working at.
Speaker 7 (01:30:56):
See people in the tremendous strain here on vice Marius
causes a numbing right into the knee section and you
can't get any feeling up through the hip air.
Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
And slapping the mat.
Speaker 9 (01:31:06):
Let's say, yeah, here you see Chavo Guerrero going up
against these Samoan and the Guerrero catching him coming off
of the ropes, and you can tell he's taking a
tremendous impact to the smaller.
Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
The bag certainly is.
Speaker 7 (01:31:17):
Again, it's the same attack right into the central nervous
system area which so many of our thought impulses and
reflexes and reactions have to come from.
Speaker 9 (01:31:24):
Almost seeing here the transition from the workout of the
professional into the professional matches and the tremendous abuse and
punishment these men have to take until next week, then
this would be gorgous saying so long.
Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
That's how they would portray it to the audience.
Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
That's amazing. What strikes you watching a presentation. I mean
what they're doing is they're they're they're conditioning the audience. Uh,
not only like educating them in the in the moves,
in what they are, but also you know, just making
it seem like these guys do this to be competitive, right,
(01:32:07):
you know, not they don't do it just to be
you know, show up. It makes it feel right, It
makes it seem like, you know, we have to practice
because I got to be the best, right.
Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
And this is this is a path to victory. Every
move is a step towards victory. It's not it's not
an entertainment in and of itself. So if we now
can load the aforementioned seventy five to seventy eight folder,
because we're about to take a look at that faithful footage.
This emerged not too long ago on the WW vault
(01:32:38):
because there was there were clips of this out there
before they did like a Hulk Hogan master list kind
of a four hour you know how they do that
on the vault now, so we saw, we saw little
hints of it, but we never saw as as unadulterated
aversion as we're about to see. And if you want
to find it, I believe it's on YouTube and it's
(01:33:01):
again buried in a much longer file called like Hulkogan
raw footage on the WWW vault and Pat Patterson down
there he was assistant booker to Johnny Valentine. To hear
Jerry Briscoe tell at the time, and obviously working the
territory as well in in around nineteen I want to say,
seventy eight probably, and just look at him. This is
(01:33:22):
where we first get this idea. This footage is where
we first get I think, visual confirmation that Terry Boulea
broke into the wrestling business before really discovering steroids before.
You know, his height was there, of course, and he
was massive, like he always was his whole life. But
he's kind of goofy looking.
Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
Yeah, this is kind of the you know, it's more
reminiscent of WCW. Hulcoganes, you know, and he was tall
and lanky and weird looking. And the hairline is making
a rapid retreat, but he still has enough to do
a full part like in the high school yearbook photos
and stuff. But he's cut it right out the jaw line.
(01:34:01):
So that's not the shoulder length hair he'd have in Ruckus.
It's not the gender bender hair that he had up there.
And so that's that's the haircut he's talking about when
he says, I'm gonna show hero Matsuda that I'm not
gonna be made fun of some hippie, which he still
looks like some hippie to me, but I understand he
still does.
Speaker 1 (01:34:16):
I understand the point. So we're just gonna watch this now.
It's only twenty eight seconds, but it is a clutch
twenty eight seconds just to see a Terry Bolea that's
now come back after the the the foot injury and
it is earning some respect and is actually now being
seasoned to do this for real down in Florida. So
here we go three two one play, looking.
Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
At looking up, fucking with as fucking sound, empty arena,
huge drop kick.
Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
He's got red tights, white armed man's push off tackle.
He looks like such a doing fun. He goes look
at that, he looks takes the rolling reverse cradle. Wow,
I'm pretty sure that's Wilhelm Rusk. He's in there with
look drop but Patterson sucks. He sucks the Brendan's head.
Did Patterson in his Converse All Stars? And then uh
(01:35:09):
Terry Bullay took a a judo throw and over the
overhead judo throw apon ciinage there from Willem Ruska, who
is in the territory as well. So it's just it's
just amazing, what's this?
Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
What's this? Okay, So the the the very last frame
is not of this thing. It's definitely a more current
video clip, but like it's very weird. It's almost disturbing. Yeah,
it's like image of someone outside or I think.
Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
It's him doing the one of the tours of Saudi
Arabia right around.
Speaker 2 (01:35:39):
The golf floor or something.
Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
It's just okay, all right, yeah, continuous file of stuff.
But that's that's that's the glimpse.
Speaker 3 (01:35:45):
There.
Speaker 1 (01:35:45):
You see Patterson who jumps for a drop kick and
sneakers and he just Patterson just lands right in his
fucking head. I don't know what he was going for,
ye but I don't know if Terry didn't base firm
well enough or what. But just to see Hogan hit
the ropes being so wiry, yeah, and just like also
seeing him like not know what to.
Speaker 8 (01:36:04):
Do, yeah, he does.
Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
He looks like such a klutz out there, he does.
And those are the black wrestling boots that Jack brisco
Bottom almost assuredly yep. And he's just truly truly learning
the ropes and it's it's remarkable to see. And what
this tells me is that there's more of this footage
that they have, and the fact that it's not available
in its entirety is an absolute grying shame. Where is
(01:36:29):
the Florida Champiship Wrestling Complete archive? WWE charge me one
hundred dollars a month for it. See what happens, get it,
Get it up there, get it up there. It's Hull
Cogan's formative years. What are you doing? I you know,
I just don't, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
As great as the Vault is, there's also I just
don't like the way it's curated, because it's like, for
a while, there was some there was some uh uh,
like a schedule. It seemed like because on on every
(01:37:11):
like Tuesday, they would, for like maybe a couple months,
they were dropping a new a new Colossum video, right,
but really, what they need to do, and.
Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
Then as soon as we stopped doing the Colsseum collection,
they stopped doing that.
Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
I mean they come up very very rarely now. But
what they really should do, and there's no reason not
to do this, is they need to set up they
need to set up channels dedicated to specific shows that
they put on, just like they had Network put a
(01:37:55):
couple episodes every fucking day.
Speaker 1 (01:37:57):
It's great to get a little buzz when you drop
something that no one knew is and it surprises people.
I appreciate the Hidden Gems' mentality, but the Hidden Gems
was off to the side. It was it was a
sweetener to the real meal, which was the predictability of knowing,
oh my god, I know where we're going. We are
going to get to all of these eras because they're
marching through it systematically and they're uploading cadence. And that's
(01:38:19):
what's exciting. That's what keeps take it from us ten
years running, eleven years running. That's what keeps people hooked
is not just what the mystery of what might come next,
but knowing with some degree of predictability, where we're heading
and if we stick with it, we're going to get
to so to.
Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
Complete hul Cogan.
Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
Yeah, here we are mired in the Sportatorium in nineteen
seventy seven under the hot lamp, but we also know
that we're headed to the first Survivor series. We're headed
to the first Summer Slam, We're headed to any number
of Saturday Night's main events that we haven't talked about before.
We're headed to Hulk Cogan and Zeus.
Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
I mean, there really should be there really should be
a hidden gems, like you know, a separate channel where
you put up just matches or things and stuff like that,
or these you know, like like they just put up
stuff from the indies and and whatever like that, that
that's fine, But then you have these other areas where
(01:39:15):
you're just.
Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
Committed to the promotion, right, And they had in the
very beginning a WW channel that got people excited because
it was they do.
Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
They still have it, but it's it's it's and it's
fine because you put up something, but it's not that's
the thing. It's not chronological, although they are. I do believe.
I do believe that they are doing full episode like
when they do when they put up a new episode
of of World Championship Wrestling, which they kind of do
every they do every week. They put up a new
(01:39:46):
episode every week. I did not know that they and
they do it in order. At least it seems like
it's been in order good, So like I do appreciate that,
but but like it's it's the other stuff. It's like I, I,
you know, exactly, put up all that fucking Florida Championship
Wrestling shit or Championship running before or whatever fuck it is,
(01:40:08):
create a channel, put it up there. Yes, it's not
going to be as oh my god, I'm a you
know not and you're not gonna have three hundred and
seventy five thousand subscribers to that like you do on
the WW channel or or or or three million subscribers
to the WWW vault. But you'll have enough people like
it doesn't matter after that. Just put it up there,
(01:40:30):
get your fucking ad money.
Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
That's not making anything sitting there exactly right, Yep, It's
absolutely true. So fascinating that we would see a young
Terry boleea mixing it up in the sportatorium ring with
Pat Patterson of all people. Because it's time to turn
back to Hulcogan's second book and get a little bit
of a little bit of classic hull coganism in. And
you tell me if this is another instance of Hogan
(01:40:54):
hearing about something that happened to another wrestler and pretended
it was his experience as well, or something that I
happened to the man. There was this one wrestler named
Pat Patterson who was wrestling in Florida who was openly gay,
which was kind of shocking to me then, just because
I had never really encountered that before. I love the
got a death to death or he loves everything to death,
Scared to death, scared to death? Right, I was scared
(01:41:15):
to death. I love the guy Toth and he's a
great guy, but he's one of those guys will ribby
about stuff. He's always joking. And I didn't know this
at the time. His pal Buddy Colt was the Florida
heavyweight champion, and I don't know if he's gay or not.
That's a shot at a Brian Blair whose uncle was
Buddy Cold. As it turned out, the way things went
down before that first match of mine don't really make
any difference. It was August of nineteen seventy seven. I'm
(01:41:35):
gearing up from my very first match with no idea
how the whole thing's going down. I truly didn't know
if I was gonna get killed in that ring or what.
God for what didn't any Graham tell you how it's
working already? H For all, I knew someone else would
break my leg the way Matt Suita did in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:41:50):
Oh my god, dude, how many like like you get
to make up your mind? Okay, you either get like
you need to have a point where it's not real anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
And he never got there. He never got there. He
never got there. I had no idea what would happen,
and nobody told me a thing. The day before the
big match, Pat Patterson stops by Matt's suit as Jim, Hey, Terry.
He says, I check up down at the Spaudatorium tomorrow.
We're riding down to Fort Myers together. I didn't care
one way or the other about the fact that he
was gay. I was just psyched that he, a big
wrestler like that, would reach out to me. So I
(01:42:22):
get to a call with Pat and Buddy the next
day and Pat says, hey, you know this is a
big night's for you. Yes, sir, it is, mister Patterson. Well,
this is your initiation night. Oh man, It's gonna be great.
I can't wait. I liked it all pumped, but like
I said, I was really scared. I was so worried
about getting beat up, or what I'd have to do
to win, or if I'd wind up losing my first
time out. Well, you know what, Pat says, We got
(01:42:45):
to in a car because we've been chosen to initiate
you tonight. Oh boy, I said, what do you mean.
Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
Well?
Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Pat says, we got about one hundred and fifty miles
to go, and before you get to the arena, you
have to give one of us a blowjob.
Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
I it was gonna go there. What I said, brother,
what what do you mean blowjob? Dude?
Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
What you have to give one of us a blow
job before you get to the building, because that's your
initiation before you wrestle.
Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
He says.
Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
I was completely taken aback. Well I can't do that. Oh, brother,
Well I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
I'm I've never done anything like that. I'm not gay.
I can't do that. They both thought, real serious, Well,
you have to do it. I'm not gonna do it.
I was horrified. I was so upset.
Speaker 2 (01:43:40):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
All this time, I've done nothing but prepare for this night,
and they're telling me I have to do this thing
that I can't possibly do or they won't let me wrestle.
Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
My first match.
Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
I was seriously fucked It was seriously fucked up. I
didn't have the slightest clue that they were ribbing. You know, hey, Terry,
that's because if you said yes, they weren't ribbing.
Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Unless you're gone and do it. I can't.
Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
I can't do this. This is fucked up, I said.
I then turned to Pat and said, brother, there is
no way in the world, dude, that I'm gonna do that,
but you know, if you want to salt my cock,
then maybe I said, I just want to wrestle, and
they took advantage of how serious and focused I was.
(01:44:24):
They tortured me. It was the longest car ride in
my life. On top of warrying about the match, how
I do if I'd looked like a fool in front
of a stadium full of people, they put this fear
into me that they wouldn't let me wrestle at all
if I didn't do this horrible thing. As we got
closer and closer to the stadium, I just refused.
Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Over and over.
Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
Finally we were pulling into the parking lot and they
still wouldn't let up. Okay, they said, since you didn't
give one of us a blow job before your match,
we're gonna have to tell all the other guys that
you failed your initiation. So after your match in the
shower under locker room, everybody's gonna grab you and fuck
you in the ass. Fuck normal, Oh god again. There
(01:45:02):
wasn't even a hint that they were kidding. This whole
wrestling experience had been so barbaric, you know, with the
leg breaking and the brings that back up and the
pushing me till I fighted in and the watching of
the marks get beat to shit and run out of
the business. I was so fucking scared, and now I
have to get in the ring and wrestle, thinking I'm
gonna be fighting for my life in the locker room
after the match, really fighting the thing I fear the most,
(01:45:24):
really fighting the thing, really fighting the thing I fear.
There is nothing he feels more than real fighting. So
I get in the locker room. It's total silence. No
one says a word to me. I get suited up
and tie up my new boots, and I go out
to wrestle Brian Blair. Now we'll get more into what
happens in the match here in just a moment from
(01:45:44):
you know, other sources than this particular one. But we
need to do this because this is where he tells
the full Patterson story. Instead of basking in the moment
of finishing my first match, I'm only thinking about one thing. Now,
I gotta go back to wrestling room and fight for
my fucking life. On the way back from the ring,
(01:46:06):
I was so worried and so upset. There were tears
in my eyes. Once again, he's crying.
Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:46:12):
I don't think any of the guy saw it, but
I was a wreck. I had thrown everything in my
life away for the stream of wrestling. I don't think
anything guy saw it, terry, because I'm not sure it
even happened.
Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
But it's fine.
Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Yeah, I'd thrown everything in my life away for the
stream of wrestling. My music career was gone.
Speaker 3 (01:46:24):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:46:25):
I was so fixated. I'm making this thing work, and
this was what I'd gotten myself into. I was shaking,
practically bawling, thinking I don't want to be a wrestler anymore.
I felt like a loser, an outsider, the twelve year
old fat kid. There it is again, Ah, that what
you're looking for.
Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
I was weak, yep, I felt sick. I just wanted
to get out of there. So scared and so messed up.
That's all I could do to gird myself and get
ready to face my fate. As I pushed through the
doors and stepped into the locker room where all the
wrestlers were waiting with beers in their hands. Congratulations, you
made it.
Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
The cocks out.
Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
What the hell they were cheering for me? The rib
was over. The whole thing had been a big goof
at my expense.
Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:47:11):
They patted me on the back and shook my hand.
Someone handed me a beer. They were all so happy
that I made it through the match, and everybody was
talking about what a good fight I'd given Brian. Hazing
is pretty common in fraternities, I guess it's pretty common
in the military too. I had no idea it was
a right passage in the wrestling world. In fact, maybe
it wasn't all that common. Maybe I was just an
(01:47:32):
unlucky stiff. Yeah, yeah, it's always that's always the case.
It was too naive for the other wrestlers to pass up.
I was completely dazed. I didn't understand it. I didn't
understand why they would do something like that. It's still
so weird to think about even now. It still upsets me.
But they're in the locker room on that August night.
For the first time in this whole crazy endeavor that
(01:47:52):
I had devoted my life to for more than a year. Now,
the other wrestlers stopped treating me like some dumb ass
kid for a moment. At least, they treated me like
one of their own. I then tied my hair up
in a ponytail dropped to my knees.
Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
Them off, brother, like you do, dude.
Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
So what was the story of that first match? What
was yes, Terry bay Is first entreat the wrestling business.
It was not Brian Blair. It was this other guy,
Don Serrano. We've heard so much about him. Why was
he under a hood? Who did he wrestle? Who was
he filling in for on that fateful night? That and
(01:48:39):
so much more detail. As the next stop on The
Complete Hulkgan focuses entirely on Terry blays very first wrestling matches.
Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 6 (01:48:54):
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